25/01/2012

:00:26. > :00:30.Good morning. Welcome to the programme. The spotlight is on

:00:30. > :00:36.Scotland today but we will bring you up to date with the latest from

:00:36. > :00:39.Cardiff Bay and Westminster. But we will be off to the Scottish

:00:39. > :00:46.Parliament, as they outlined their plans for a referendum on

:00:46. > :00:56.independence and we will be at premises questions. -- Prime

:00:56. > :01:04.

:01:04. > :01:09.Joining me is Conservative Suzy Davis. We set up the top of the

:01:09. > :01:14.programme we would be heading to the Scottish Parliament later. We

:01:14. > :01:19.will be doing that later. We will start by discussing that issue.

:01:19. > :01:22.Good morning. Alex Salmond is really setting the

:01:22. > :01:27.agenda with this independence referendum. David Cameron tried to

:01:27. > :01:33.get involved last week. He has lost control of it. I do not think that

:01:33. > :01:39.is the conclusion. Alex Salmond is just about to launch the

:01:39. > :01:43.consultation on independence for Scotland. He is motoring on with it.

:01:43. > :01:46.One worrying thing that has come out of the recent discussion is how

:01:46. > :01:52.we are losing the sense of Britishness and people in England

:01:52. > :01:59.are starting to feel more English. That is perhaps an unexpected

:01:59. > :02:06.consequence. It is inevitable. We hear that people in England say, if

:02:07. > :02:10.Scotland want to go, let them go. And rightly so. It will happen if

:02:10. > :02:13.that is the will of the Scottish people. I would like to see that

:02:13. > :02:19.happen in Wales have it was the will of the Welsh people. Alex

:02:19. > :02:25.Salmond is driving the agenda. David Cameron's intervention has

:02:25. > :02:29.driven more membership towards the SNP. It will fan the flames. Some

:02:29. > :02:35.people forget how irrelevant the Tories are in Scotland. They have

:02:35. > :02:44.such a low following. There are more pandas in Edinburgh zoo than

:02:44. > :02:49.Scottish Tory MPs. We tend to forget that.

:02:49. > :02:52.We heard Elin Jones talking this morning, quotes from her, saying

:02:53. > :03:00.that if Plaid Cymru were to win the next election and the one after

:03:00. > :03:04.that, that would be a mandate to go for a referendum in Wales. It is

:03:04. > :03:08.happening in Scotland. I do not see why it shouldn't happen in Wales as

:03:08. > :03:15.top who would have imagined that Scotland would be no place in the

:03:15. > :03:19.prospect of an independence referendum 10 years ago? Who would

:03:19. > :03:22.have thought that Alex Salmond would remain as First Minister and

:03:22. > :03:27.have an overall majority. The system was designed to make sure

:03:27. > :03:33.that never happened. Anything is possible. We need to aspire to that

:03:33. > :03:37.as a party and as a nation. Let's work towards it. When you hear it

:03:38. > :03:44.statements like that, what do you think? That is a matter for Plaid

:03:45. > :03:52.Cymru. I would like to pick up on the matter of David Cameron and

:03:52. > :03:58.George Osborne representing the UK government. They are representing

:03:58. > :04:02.the whole of Britain. It is one thing having a few but it is

:04:02. > :04:09.another telling the First Minister of Scotland when he should or

:04:09. > :04:14.should not hold a referendum. lies with the UK Government's what

:04:14. > :04:21.is natural that the Prime Minister would be able to say something

:04:21. > :04:24.about it. We are seeing it develop now as a narrative over this week

:04:24. > :04:28.and recent days. There are implications for the whole of the

:04:28. > :04:35.UK. We do need a strong and robust debate about what happens in

:04:35. > :04:38.England. That has been the issue. It is happening in Wales and

:04:38. > :04:43.Scotland and Northern Ireland but England carries on as if nothing

:04:43. > :04:50.has happened. The more focus there isn't that, the healthier the

:04:50. > :04:56.debate will be. I disagree a mark. The consensus has broken on the

:04:56. > :05:00.sofa! We have heard what is happening in the Scottish

:05:01. > :05:04.Parliament but what is on the agenda in Cardiff Bay?

:05:05. > :05:10.First of all, questions to the ministers. Environment Minister

:05:10. > :05:16.John go first and Housing Minister Huw Lewis. After that, an

:05:16. > :05:24.interesting cross-party debate on pay-day loans. These loans that are

:05:24. > :05:29.offered at very high rates of interest will -- interest. People

:05:30. > :05:35.can get into trouble with them. The rates of interest can be as high as

:05:35. > :05:42.4,000 %. People can get into tremendous difficulties. Wages are

:05:42. > :05:48.not keeping pace with prices. There are more companies springing up.

:05:48. > :05:54.They are easier to get loans. They are very accessible. Assembly

:05:54. > :05:58.Members are concerned this is an increasing problem. They have got

:05:58. > :06:05.together across the parties to address this issue and call on the

:06:05. > :06:12.government and local authorities to provide for a PFI able alternatives.

:06:12. > :06:17.-- viable alternatives. After that today, we have the Welsh

:06:17. > :06:21.Conservatives wanting to talk about education. They feel pupils are not

:06:21. > :06:27.being stretched sufficiently. They are concerned about a decline in

:06:28. > :06:32.pupils achieving the top grade in examinations. Archer be interesting.

:06:32. > :06:37.-- that should be interesting. Plaid Cymru one to talk about

:06:37. > :06:40.Wales's international commitments in the area of climate change and

:06:40. > :06:44.overseas help and that sort of thing and Simon Thomas is busy

:06:45. > :06:51.again at the end of the afternoon. He is asking the question, can

:06:51. > :06:55.Wales pay its own way? A we will catch up with you later

:06:55. > :07:04.on. You can find out even more about what is happening in the

:07:04. > :07:10.National Assembly on our Democracy Live online coverage. The address

:07:10. > :07:16.is on the screen. We head up to London and find out

:07:17. > :07:24.what is happening at Westminster. There will be some gloomy economic

:07:24. > :07:30.predictions. The predictions for last year are out this morning.

:07:30. > :07:34.The economy and the last three months of last year shrank by 0.2 %.

:07:34. > :07:44.We are not quite in recession yet. The accepted definition of a

:07:44. > :07:45.

:07:45. > :07:49.recession is two successive quarters. The previous quarter,

:07:49. > :07:54.there was flat growth. By the skin of our teeth, we are keeping out of

:07:54. > :08:00.recession. All eyes will be on the next set of figures in three

:08:00. > :08:08.months' time. The political problem for jaw-jaw Osborne and David

:08:08. > :08:14.Cameron is that they are -- they plan is to cut public spending

:08:14. > :08:18.freeing up the private sector -- George Osborne.

:08:18. > :08:22.These figures today show that it is not quite happening yet. You would

:08:22. > :08:29.think that Ed Miliband would pick up on this at Prime Minister's

:08:29. > :08:34.Questions. The feeling is that he has been doing that, picking up on

:08:34. > :08:39.economic statistics. But not be making a great go of it. David

:08:39. > :08:45.Cameron will be quite confident he can see of this attack. And

:08:45. > :08:49.straight after premises questions, he is off to the World economic

:08:50. > :08:53.Forum. That is described in some quarters as Glastonbury for

:08:53. > :09:01.capitalists. He was supposed to have a cup of tea with Mick Jagger

:09:01. > :09:05.but he has a diary clash now. He says he is not willing to be

:09:05. > :09:10.associated with a particular political party. The government has

:09:10. > :09:14.been under attack from the Church of all places and a benefit reforms.

:09:14. > :09:19.The former Archbishop of Canterbury seems to be on the side of David

:09:19. > :09:23.Cameron. Yes, better news for David Cameron. On Monday, the House of

:09:23. > :09:26.Lords defeated the government on its plans for a cap on benefit. The

:09:26. > :09:34.government wants to cup the total amount of benefit anyone can claim

:09:34. > :09:37.in one year. Some Labour peers and bishops in the House of Lords felt

:09:37. > :09:45.that was unfair and they manage to vote on amendments successfully to

:09:45. > :09:49.remove child benefit from that calculation. That was a

:09:49. > :09:54.disappointing defeat for the government. But today the former

:09:54. > :09:57.Archbishop of Cape Dutch Canterbury has written in the newspapers

:09:57. > :10:07.saying the government was right and it is irresponsible to allow people

:10:07. > :10:13.

:10:13. > :10:17.to claim that the benefits and not work. -- lots of benefits.

:10:17. > :10:24.Some better news for Downing Street. They were expecting questions on

:10:24. > :10:31.the benefit policy. But David Cameron has some ammunition.

:10:31. > :10:35.We'll be talking to some people about it later on. We have

:10:35. > :10:40.mentioned Scotland. Alex Salmond is determined to make things difficult

:10:40. > :10:46.for David Cameron. That is certain to come up. Yes, his ghost seems to

:10:46. > :10:56.stalk Westminster at the moment. He wants to push ahead with plans for

:10:56. > :10:56.

:10:56. > :11:04.a referendum. He wants a second question on whether the Scottish

:11:04. > :11:13.Parliament should have extra powers. That is if the Scottish voters

:11:13. > :11:16.reject the idea of independence. It is one of these rare areas where

:11:16. > :11:23.there is a bit of consensus between David Cameron and Ed Miliband.

:11:23. > :11:31.Neither wants to give unexamined too much attention by raising it. -

:11:31. > :11:33.- Alex Salmond. We will find out soon enough. You

:11:33. > :11:40.will take us through it in John Motson style!

:11:40. > :11:50.We would like to hear from you. You can get in touch. The address is on

:11:50. > :11:53.

:11:53. > :12:00.It is time to join Mark. Check the interest rate!

:12:00. > :12:03.It is good advice. I am joined by Simon Thomas. You are one of the

:12:03. > :12:10.people that has brought this debate forward on pay-day loans. How do

:12:10. > :12:20.they differ from other loans? are very short term available for

:12:20. > :12:21.

:12:21. > :12:26.just a month. Literally from pay- day to pay-day. People do not

:12:26. > :12:30.realise they are thousands of %. The interest rate is so high. It is

:12:30. > :12:35.an extremely expensive way of borrowing money. People can get

:12:35. > :12:40.into difficulties. Yes, very easy to get in two, 20 minutes on line

:12:40. > :12:44.and you can get �500 into your bank account. You have to pay back that

:12:44. > :12:49.money and you often find yourself taking out loans to pay back the

:12:49. > :12:54.loans you took out the month before. You can get into a cycle of debt.

:12:54. > :13:00.Times are very tough for many people. Are you seeing this issue

:13:00. > :13:08.reflected in feedback from constituents? Absolutely. In advice

:13:08. > :13:12.surgeries and advice bureaux as well. Personal debt is up. Personal

:13:12. > :13:21.debt in the UK has gone up 50 % in the last year alone. People are

:13:21. > :13:28.struggling. These companies are promoting

:13:29. > :13:32.themselves on daytime television. They are easy to turn to.

:13:32. > :13:37.They represent an extremely expensive way of borrowing money.

:13:37. > :13:44.Presumably, people find them expensive. We should not assume

:13:44. > :13:48.that everyone is ignorant. Absolutely. The small print is very

:13:48. > :13:54.small sometimes. But nevertheless, they do have a place and a role to

:13:54. > :14:01.play in the market. They are there as an option. But many people think

:14:01. > :14:06.they are the only option and there are alternatives. It is about

:14:06. > :14:16.informing people about the options. Is the main alternative credit

:14:16. > :14:24.unions? That is a good alternative. But there are alternative paid a

:14:24. > :14:34.loan companies. It is a lot of money but it is cheaper. There are

:14:34. > :14:36.

:14:36. > :14:46.alternative credit unions. They operate like APD Loan Company. --

:14:46. > :14:51.pay day. We need a real alternative for the people of Wales. It is

:14:51. > :14:55.about financial inclusion, education, local authorities

:14:55. > :14:58.helping their communities. It is about being aware of the cost of

:14:58. > :15:04.these things. They are an option that we need to promote the

:15:04. > :15:08.alternatives. I am particularly concerned about the number of

:15:08. > :15:12.people commonly 16 %, they are borrowing in order to pay off loans.

:15:12. > :15:20.They never actually pay off the loan. They are paying off the

:15:20. > :15:26.interest and there are always in debt. Presumably, we do not know,

:15:26. > :15:31.this is likely to get worse, we could be storing up real pain and

:15:31. > :15:38.hardship for years to come in Wales. Absolutely. It is pain and hardship

:15:38. > :15:44.for the individuals concerned but also of the committees. The

:15:44. > :15:48.cheapest paid a lower interest rate is �2 million -- that is taken out

:15:48. > :15:58.of the local common -- economy simply by the choice of lender that

:15:58. > :16:00.

:16:00. > :16:10.you half. -- have. We need to see an end to the probation of these

:16:10. > :16:13.

:16:13. > :16:19.Does more need to be done in terms of capping advertising and so on?

:16:19. > :16:24.Interest rates that run into 4,000 % and so one needs action taken,

:16:24. > :16:27.but we also needed because on the things we can do in our community

:16:27. > :16:31.in Wales. A very interesting subject. I am sure people will look

:16:32. > :16:37.at this debate with great attention. Thank you for joining us.

:16:37. > :16:41.Still to come, we will be going live to the House of Commons for

:16:41. > :16:46.Prime Minister's Questions at midday. Now, just how happy are our

:16:47. > :16:50.children, and how can we measure that happiness? The issue of

:16:50. > :16:56.children's subjective well-being has been raised in the House of

:16:56. > :17:03.Commons. Our reporter has more. Here in the Commons, one Welsh MP

:17:03. > :17:07.has raised the issue of what he calls a "children's subjective

:17:07. > :17:15.well-being". Closing the day of business in the Commons yesterday,

:17:15. > :17:20.he had an adjournment debate. What exactly do you mean by a

:17:20. > :17:24."children's subjective well-being"? It is how happy a child is from

:17:24. > :17:28.their perspective. There are objective ways of measuring well-

:17:28. > :17:32.being through statistics, but what is lacking is the subjective point

:17:32. > :17:37.of view of the child. So you think that people should be interacting

:17:37. > :17:43.more with children, asking children whether they are OK, more about

:17:43. > :17:48.their feelings? Yes. In this day and age, children are under

:17:48. > :17:52.tremendous pressure. Nearly 20% of 10-year-olds are obese. At any one

:17:52. > :17:56.point in the UK, there are 1.2 million children with mental health

:17:56. > :18:00.problems. There are millions of children living in poverty. These

:18:00. > :18:04.are big issues, big pressures on a child, and we need to know how they

:18:04. > :18:07.feel about these issues, and government both central and local

:18:07. > :18:13.needs to develop and co-ordinate policies that will help those

:18:13. > :18:21.children. Do we have the people that we can employ to do that kind

:18:21. > :18:26.of work? Some of it is not about cost. I'll give you an example in

:18:26. > :18:31.Denbighshire the local council is sending each school a pack of

:18:31. > :18:36.recommended books that can help parents and teachers come to grips

:18:36. > :18:40.with emotional distress, so some self help can cost as nothing. But

:18:40. > :18:44.is one practical example. Wales is leading the way in many respects.

:18:44. > :18:47.We introduced the foundation stage, learning through play at the age of

:18:48. > :18:52.seven. We have a children's commissioner. Children need a voice

:18:52. > :18:55.and they need their voice to be heard. We have Welsh solutions to

:18:55. > :18:59.British and worldwide problems. you think there is a culture

:18:59. > :19:05.problem - the idea that children should not be hired and just get on

:19:05. > :19:08.with life? They should be seen and not heard! That used to be the case.

:19:08. > :19:12.We have schools councils, we have the children's commissioner, but

:19:12. > :19:21.the children's toys is still not been heard and it is not being

:19:21. > :19:28.heard by decision makers -- the children's toys. -- voice. Do think

:19:28. > :19:32.that you could be too sensitive and treat children with an attitude

:19:32. > :19:37.that they are too precious, anyway? It is not right that 1.2 million

:19:37. > :19:43.children at any one time, 20% of the children in the UK, will

:19:43. > :19:49.experience mental illness. That feeds into adult Cost -- lives and

:19:49. > :19:54.the additional cost to the economy. We need to sort this out at source.

:19:54. > :19:57.A stable mind is a stable society. And you blame modern society -

:19:57. > :20:01.technology, advertising, for the reason that these children are

:20:01. > :20:06.suffering? It is a complicated issue. When I was growing up in the

:20:06. > :20:11.60s I've spent five or six hours a day running around in my

:20:11. > :20:14.neighbourhood near the river, but today children go on the computer,

:20:14. > :20:18.play video games, watch television. It is not communicative. Their

:20:18. > :20:23.social skills are being limited. They have not got that social

:20:23. > :20:26.interaction. That is any part of the problem. The purpose of

:20:26. > :20:32.advertising is to make a person feel dissatisfied with what they

:20:32. > :20:36.have got. The image that they are promoting two young children is to

:20:36. > :20:40.be slim, beautiful, intelligent, and that is not usually the case.

:20:40. > :20:45.Some have got poor self-image because of advertising and because

:20:45. > :20:48.of the media. What do you hope to achieve through raising this issue?

:20:48. > :20:53.What do you want UK government to do? The Georgian Society produced

:20:53. > :20:59.an excellent book last week jam- packed full of recommendations --

:20:59. > :21:04.the Children's Society. I put down 36 questions and each of these

:21:04. > :21:07.policy areas today will come up in Parliament and I hope that the

:21:07. > :21:10.Government will report back and we will see how much pressure can be

:21:10. > :21:18.put on them. We need to monitor what the Government are doing and

:21:18. > :21:25.what they are not doing. Thank you. Time to go back to Mark in the

:21:25. > :21:29.Aureole now. I am pleased to say that I am joined by Gareth Hughes.

:21:29. > :21:33.-- let's talk about independence. Our guests have already been

:21:33. > :21:38.talking about this, but it is having great ramifications here in

:21:38. > :21:43.waves -- Wales as well as in Scotland. First of all, Alan Jones

:21:43. > :21:46.saying that if Plaid were to win elections in 2016 and 2020 than

:21:46. > :21:56.they would have a mandate for independence. It is amazing, isn't

:21:56. > :22:01.it? This is the issue that Plaid had been talking about for so long.

:22:01. > :22:04.Now they are talking about it and effectively they are saying that

:22:04. > :22:09.perhaps there will never be a referendum. The success of Plaid

:22:09. > :22:14.has not been at great, has it? If they had demanded, if they run to

:22:14. > :22:17.elections than it would be a referendum because as a party they

:22:17. > :22:24.want independence, and having won elections, clearly they would have

:22:24. > :22:29.to give it to the people of Wales. But that is almost kicking it out

:22:29. > :22:32.of the long grass, even out of this century! If things remain the same.

:22:32. > :22:37.What we have seen in recent months is that this issue across the UK

:22:37. > :22:44.has developed at an extraordinary pace, partly due to what is

:22:44. > :22:48.happening in Scotland. Do you think that whatever happens whoever wins

:22:48. > :22:54.that Plaid Cymru rates will have an impact on how the issue develops in

:22:54. > :22:59.Wales over the next 10 years? think Plaid's members would want it

:22:59. > :23:06.to be something that is central to the concern of whoever is leader. I

:23:06. > :23:09.am not sure that Lord David Ellis Thomas would want it to be the

:23:09. > :23:15.centre point of his campaign, and I am not sure that Simon Thomas would

:23:15. > :23:19.wanted. They regard it as an irrelevant issue. The other two

:23:19. > :23:22.women that are standing, clearly they would put it in there. I am

:23:22. > :23:30.not sure they think it's irrelevant, but they just don't put it as much

:23:30. > :23:34.as Alan Jones. If you asked Dafydd Elis-Thomas, he has strong views

:23:34. > :23:37.and it is not about independence. It is about some other kind of

:23:37. > :23:43.state. He said there is no such thing as a mythical thing,

:23:43. > :23:47.independent. Simon rightly says there are more important issues,

:23:47. > :23:50.but it is there somewhere on a back burner. The other two candidates

:23:50. > :23:54.will put it forward. But a thick Plaid members themselves wanted to

:23:54. > :23:57.be there, and of course it is an issue that will be there because it

:23:57. > :24:00.is going to be in all the national papers because of Scotland. And it

:24:00. > :24:05.is an issue for the Welsh government and for Labour. Carwyn

:24:05. > :24:08.Jones this week calling for a convention on the future of the UK.

:24:08. > :24:12.He would not have been doing that six months ago. No, clearly if

:24:13. > :24:16.Scotland went out of the union then it would have a big ramifications

:24:16. > :24:21.for Wales, England and Northern Ireland. If he is coming from that,

:24:21. > :24:25.he is now pushing it a bit file a - - further and say no, even if

:24:25. > :24:28.Scotland stay in, we do need to look at the relationship between a

:24:29. > :24:34.devolved government in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and

:24:34. > :24:39.England. Why? Because the English themselves are getting less

:24:39. > :24:43.stressed about the whole issue - it seems that the Westminster

:24:43. > :24:48.Parliament is looking after Wales and Scotland's interests and not

:24:48. > :24:52.the English interests, so there is a pressure there. There has been a

:24:52. > :24:56.commission set up for the West Lothian question. I think Carwyn

:24:56. > :25:01.Jones is going with the flow, and yes, it is the latest stage in a

:25:01. > :25:04.journey. He is concerned, isn't he? My reading of that press conference

:25:04. > :25:07.the other day is that events are happening that are going to have a

:25:08. > :25:10.greater effect on Wales and there is a risk we could be left behind.

:25:11. > :25:14.Rhodri Morgan said something similar this morning. Again, it is

:25:14. > :25:18.keeping pace with these developments. Yes, they are trying

:25:18. > :25:22.to set the agenda over, but I think they are following the agenda and

:25:22. > :25:25.following that independence agenda that has been dictated to in

:25:25. > :25:33.Scotland as we speak. But Carwyn Jones does not want independence.

:25:33. > :25:36.No, but you look at Elin Jones talking about a referendum on

:25:36. > :25:41.independence when Plaid is elected in two successive governments, that

:25:41. > :25:44.may not happen then, but certainly, if there was a change to the

:25:44. > :25:48.constitution of the UK and we went down the Carwyn Jones route, who is

:25:48. > :25:54.actually heading us towards some kind of federal system here, then

:25:54. > :25:56.that would have to be put to the Welsh people because we have had

:25:56. > :26:00.referendums on small constitutional changes and this would be a major

:26:00. > :26:04.one. If there was a referendum on that there would have to be a

:26:04. > :26:10.question on independence, I'm sure. It is quite baffling. But they said

:26:10. > :26:15.devolution would open Pandora's box, they were not joking!

:26:15. > :26:21.We will be going to the Commons any minute now. Let's see what our

:26:21. > :26:25.guests think. On a day that Alex Salmond is launching this

:26:25. > :26:30.constitution, we hear that the economy has shrunk in the last

:26:30. > :26:34.quarter by 0.2%. That is the really big story, isn't it? Yes, and it

:26:34. > :26:38.underlines the fact that the current status quo is not working.

:26:38. > :26:41.Beautifully weaved in there! asked the question and I am

:26:41. > :26:46.answering it. That is why many to change the status quo. We do need

:26:46. > :26:50.to focus on jobs, health, the basic issues that of David concern to

:26:50. > :26:54.people, but I am coming from a standpoint where I see moving

:26:54. > :26:58.towards independence as a means of enabling Wales to get to grips with

:26:58. > :27:03.those issues by having their hands on the macro economic levers, for

:27:03. > :27:06.example, to get to grips with some of the basic structural issues in

:27:06. > :27:14.our economy. Frankly, Osborne and Cameron at Westminster are not

:27:14. > :27:18.addressing these issues. The economy is stagnating. Is that not

:27:18. > :27:21.because of the world economy? if it were that, it is still not

:27:21. > :27:26.the policies that I in the best interests of Wales and the economy

:27:26. > :27:29.of Wales, so I honestly feel that we need to make -- to a situation

:27:29. > :27:39.where we have the tools to do the job. If we don't have the tools,

:27:39. > :27:40.

:27:40. > :27:44.Rickard expect anyone else to look after us. -- we can't expect.

:27:44. > :27:50.think it is more important that the majority of people who were

:27:50. > :27:53.watching your programme today, these figures are disappointing but

:27:53. > :27:56.not a surprise. Osborne said that things will get difficult before

:27:57. > :28:01.they get better. This is part of a story that has already been planned

:28:01. > :28:06.for, I think. There is a different government hit in Wales already.

:28:06. > :28:09.Devolution has started, and yet Wales is at the bottom of all the

:28:09. > :28:12.economic indicators. If you are talking about devolution working,

:28:12. > :28:16.we need to see some evidence at this stage that the people who have

:28:16. > :28:20.got law-making powers are making the best of them and trying to

:28:20. > :28:24.improve our economy. There is plenty of evidence, of course. If

:28:24. > :28:28.you look at the 10 richest nations in the world, six are smaller than

:28:28. > :28:32.Wales. An optimum size of our 3 million population would give us

:28:32. > :28:36.that flexibility as a small nation to be able to react to the changing

:28:36. > :28:44.economic climate. Being shackled to the City of London at the moment

:28:44. > :28:48.summed up does not work in our favour. I'm sure the Scottish

:28:48. > :28:52.question will come up later, but there is agreement between David

:28:52. > :28:59.Cameron and Ed Miliband which suggests it is going to be

:28:59. > :29:03.difficult for members of Plaid Cymru or the SNP did get their

:29:03. > :29:06.voices heard on this issue. Which again underlines how irrelevant

:29:06. > :29:10.Wales is becoming in Westminster, and that is feeding the frustration

:29:10. > :29:13.that people in Scotland and Wales are feeling, and it is something

:29:13. > :29:20.that had the should be addressed through a devolved settlement. That

:29:20. > :29:24.is, of course, the increasingly clear view of people in Wales on

:29:24. > :29:31.fiscal economy -- autonomy in terms of devolution of policing and so on.

:29:31. > :29:35.These are issues where the will of people is ahead of people like

:29:35. > :29:39.Carwyn Jones's arguments. Carwyn Jones called for a constitutional

:29:39. > :29:43.convention the other day. He spoke about that convention protecting

:29:43. > :29:46.the UK, not just looking at the future of the UK. Obviously what

:29:46. > :29:49.happens in Scotland is going to have a profound effect on what

:29:49. > :29:54.happens in Wales. How realistic do you take the threat of Scottish

:29:54. > :29:58.independence? Personally, I don't think it will come to fruition.

:29:58. > :30:04.That's why I think Alex Salmond has been more than happy to accommodate

:30:04. > :30:10.the D Lomax question. It is only a couple of weeks ago that he was

:30:10. > :30:13.wittier -- reiterating the SNP situation. It has been amazing how

:30:13. > :30:20.happily Alex Salmond has been prepared to accommodate this

:30:20. > :30:23.question. Carwyn Jones has called for this convention to look at the

:30:23. > :30:29.different settlements that are evolving in the UK. But he fails to

:30:29. > :30:32.tell us what he wants to see. Three times he was asked to state it are

:30:32. > :30:41.-- to outline what he would like to see as the constitutional future of

:30:41. > :30:45.Let's head over to the House of Commons. We will back at -- be back

:30:45. > :30:52.afterwards. We will have a cup of tea.

:30:52. > :30:57.MPs just finishing off the northern Ireland questions. You can see the

:30:57. > :31:07.premises in his place, ready to go. He will be starting in a minute --

:31:07. > :31:07.

:31:07. > :31:11.Prime Minister. This morning, I had meetings would

:31:11. > :31:16.be Minister and others and in addition to my duties, I would have

:31:16. > :31:20.further such meetings later today. The Prime Minister frequently

:31:20. > :31:25.claims he is not complacent about the tragedy of youth unemployment.

:31:25. > :31:31.Can he tell the House why his youth contract schemes has still not

:31:31. > :31:38.started? It is going to make a big difference to -- differ as to young

:31:38. > :31:42.people. It will over the course of the coming years, it will provide

:31:42. > :31:48.160,000 places for people. That will be far better than the failed

:31:48. > :31:52.future jobs fund. In some cases, it had over 97 % of its jobs place in

:31:52. > :32:02.the public sector. It'll be up and running this year and will make a

:32:02. > :32:02.

:32:02. > :32:07.bid -- big difference to young people. Today is the anniversary of

:32:07. > :32:11.the great Scottish poet, Robbie Burns. Does the Prime Minister

:32:11. > :32:20.agree with his impassioned plea for the unity of our nation when he

:32:20. > :32:30.says in his poem, the Britons still, to Britain are true, among

:32:30. > :32:34.

:32:34. > :32:38.ourselves, United. Ungrateful for her question. And

:32:38. > :32:41.the point she makes is a good one - - I am grateful. Burns Night will

:32:41. > :32:46.be celebrated not just across Scotland but across the whole of

:32:46. > :32:50.the United Kingdom and in many parts of the world. When I hear the

:32:50. > :33:00.Scottish nationalists who are so keen to leave the United Kingdom,

:33:00. > :33:04.

:33:04. > :33:14.yet so anxious about having representation, I remember Robbie

:33:14. > :33:18.

:33:18. > :33:22.Burns's words. Mr Speaker, we are 18 months into

:33:22. > :33:27.his government and today's figures show our economy is not growing, it

:33:27. > :33:33.is shrinking. What has gone wrong with his economic growing --

:33:33. > :33:37.economic plan? These are extremely difficult economic times. These are

:33:37. > :33:44.disappointing figures. They are not unexpected figures. They are what

:33:44. > :33:47.the Office of budget responsibility for August. I will be frank. They

:33:47. > :33:53.reflect three things. They reflect the overhang of the debt and the

:33:53. > :33:59.deficit that we have to deal with. They reflect be higher food and

:33:59. > :34:06.fuel prices. They put a squeeze on household income. They also reflect

:34:06. > :34:12.the crisis in the euro-zone that has risen. The forecast for France,

:34:12. > :34:16.Germany, Spain, Italy, for the end of last year, as greater decline or

:34:16. > :34:21.in many places, a greater decline. This is the year we have to take

:34:21. > :34:28.further action to get our economy moving. The most important thing is

:34:28. > :34:36.to have a credible plan to get on top of the deficit.

:34:36. > :34:42.Mr Speaker, people are fed up with his excuses. He blames the euro-

:34:42. > :34:48.zone. Growth has been flat climbing in our economy since well before

:34:48. > :34:52.the euro-zone crisis. Since his spending review in autumn 2010.

:34:52. > :34:59.What has characterised, Mr Speaker, the government's approach through

:34:59. > :35:04.of this period, total arrogance. In his first Budget, the Chancellor

:35:04. > :35:10.painted a glowing picture of what his policies would deliver for a

:35:10. > :35:15.our economy. He said this, his policies would deliver a steady and

:35:15. > :35:21.sustained economic recovery with falling unemployment.

:35:21. > :35:26.We have a shrinking economy and the highest unemployment in 18 years.

:35:26. > :35:32.How bad do things have to get in our economy to shake him out of his

:35:32. > :35:39.complacency? As usual, he writes the question before he listens to

:35:39. > :35:42.the answer. I did not just say this is an issue of the euro-zone. It is

:35:42. > :35:48.debt and deficit, squeezed household incomes, the issues

:35:48. > :35:53.affecting many other economies. He talks about our policy but we

:35:53. > :35:59.remember his policy, no more boom and bust. He gave us the bill --

:35:59. > :36:02.the problems we are having to recover from. There is not one

:36:02. > :36:08.ounce of complacency. The a cut in corporation tax, we have to scrap

:36:08. > :36:18.the job tax, we are investing record sums in their

:36:18. > :36:18.

:36:18. > :36:22.apprenticeships. All do. They must be heard. The Prime Minister.

:36:22. > :36:27.party opposite only has one answer and that is to deal with a debt

:36:28. > :36:32.crisis by borrowing more and adding to debt. That is his answer and it

:36:32. > :36:38.would wreck our economy and interest rates and make things much

:36:38. > :36:43.worse. He says there is not one ounce of complacency but he and his

:36:43. > :36:50.Chancellor of the byword for self- satisfied, smug complacency and

:36:50. > :36:54.that is the reality. He is failing not just on unemployment and growth

:36:54. > :37:02.but on borrowing as well. Because of his failure on growth and

:37:02. > :37:06.unemployment, he is borrowing �158 billion more than he forecast. And

:37:06. > :37:10.now we know, he said unemployment would fall, it is not, he said the

:37:10. > :37:16.economy would grow, it has not. He said we are all in this together,

:37:16. > :37:21.we are not. When will this Prime Minister face up to the fact that

:37:21. > :37:26.it is his policies that are failing our country? The economy grew last

:37:26. > :37:30.year but he cannot find it in himself. There are more people in

:37:30. > :37:40.work today than there were at the time of the last election. But we

:37:40. > :37:41.

:37:41. > :37:44.were given... We were given a clear instruction yesterday at 5 o'clock

:37:44. > :37:49.in the afternoon, the Shadow chancellor said, the government

:37:49. > :37:56.should listen to the IMF and change course. At 7 o'clock in the evening,

:37:56. > :38:00.the IMF told us, we do not think that fiscal consolidation adds to

:38:00. > :38:06.the problem. Fiscal consolidation is part of resolving the problems

:38:06. > :38:10.facing the UK economy. That is the truth. There are two parties in

:38:10. > :38:20.this country taking responsibility for clearing up the mess. There is

:38:20. > :38:27.

:38:28. > :38:32.one party refusing to take responsibility for causing the mess.

:38:32. > :38:38.Can the Prime Minister tell the House when the committee will be

:38:38. > :38:43.sitting to consider stripping this man of his ill-deserved knighthood?

:38:43. > :38:48.The committee will be meeting, as I understand it, this week. It will

:38:48. > :38:58.be considering all of the evidence, including, as I have said before,

:38:58. > :38:59.

:38:59. > :39:08.the Financial Services of quality report into RBS and what went wrong.

:39:08. > :39:12.-- authority. Does the Prime Minister agree that in Scotland,

:39:12. > :39:15.the people have the right to approve their own constitutional

:39:16. > :39:20.future as they see fit? This is an issue for the people of Scotland

:39:20. > :39:29.and I think we should bring forward the date when we put the question

:39:29. > :39:33.to the Scottish people. Ideally hope that they want to remain in

:39:34. > :39:38.the United Kingdom. Options for further devolution, Options for

:39:38. > :39:48.Change is across the United Kingdom are matters for all of the United

:39:48. > :39:54.

:39:54. > :40:01.Kingdom. May I a put it to the Prime

:40:01. > :40:10.Minister that for Britain to commit still more funds to the IMF would

:40:10. > :40:15.in effect be providing a subsidy to Germany because it is still not

:40:15. > :40:22.fully supporting its own currency while benefiting from its

:40:22. > :40:28.appreciation. That is an important point. Of

:40:28. > :40:33.course, the IMF managing-director is in London today. Our message is

:40:33. > :40:43.clear. They should not be a question of committing further IMF

:40:43. > :40:43.

:40:43. > :40:46.funds until the euro-zone itself standing behind its own currency.

:40:46. > :40:52.The speech made in Germany last night was clear. The role of the

:40:52. > :40:57.IMF is to support countries and not currency zones. This government

:40:57. > :41:02.supports that decision. Last September, the Prime Minister

:41:02. > :41:06.said about his flagship health bill and I quote, we have the Royal

:41:06. > :41:11.College of GPs, the physicians, the nurses, people working in the

:41:11. > :41:19.health service, supporting the changes we are making. Can the

:41:19. > :41:23.Prime Minister give the house an update on the support for his bill?

:41:23. > :41:29.I have certainly learned that when it comes to the NHS, you should

:41:30. > :41:37.always expect a second opinion. Or even a third opinion. But there are

:41:37. > :41:43.thousands of GPs across the country not just supporting our reforms,

:41:43. > :41:53.they are actually implementing our reforms.

:41:53. > :41:57.Let me give him just one example of a supportive a GP. Order!

:41:57. > :42:04.Honourable Member should not be yelling out. The question was asked

:42:04. > :42:12.and the answer will be given. I think they want to hear from this

:42:12. > :42:17.one particular GP who hails from Doncaster. He said this when he was

:42:17. > :42:20.the acting chairman of the commissioning group. He said this,

:42:20. > :42:26.becoming one of the first national pathfinder areas is a real boost

:42:26. > :42:32.for Doncaster. I think what is good for Doncaster is good for the rest

:42:32. > :42:42.of the country! How out of touch as he about what

:42:42. > :42:47.

:42:47. > :42:51.is happening in the NHS? -- is he. The latest survey says 98 % of GPs

:42:52. > :42:55.want the Bill returns -- reformed. The Royal College of Nursing has

:42:55. > :43:05.said the turmoil of the ceiling with the reforms is now greater

:43:05. > :43:07.

:43:07. > :43:13.than the turmoil of stopping them. -- continuing.

:43:13. > :43:19.We have to take our nurses and doctors with us. Mr Speaker, if he

:43:19. > :43:28.wants to hear the voice of doctors and nurses why doesn't he listen?

:43:28. > :43:32.He seems to be out of touch with what is happening in Doncaster!

:43:32. > :43:36.Miliband is of course the MP for Doncaster.

:43:36. > :43:42.Let me tell him what is happening in the NHS. 4,000 extra doctors

:43:42. > :43:46.since the election. 100,000 more patients treated since the election.

:43:46. > :43:52.In-patient and out-patient waiting times lower than they were at the

:43:52. > :43:57.election. �7 billion already saved. At the

:43:57. > :44:02.same time, we have got hospital acquired infections Abbey lowest-

:44:02. > :44:07.ever levels. That is what is happening. If we listen to him, we

:44:07. > :44:14.would be cutting spending in the NHS, and the NHS would be getting

:44:14. > :44:19.worse, not better. Waiting lists are, morale is down

:44:19. > :44:24.and his own help select committee, majority Conservative health

:44:24. > :44:28.committee, what do they say about this? They say and I quote, it will

:44:28. > :44:34.be disruption and distraction that hinders the ability of

:44:34. > :44:38.organisations to release Saving. This is a bill nobody wants. It is

:44:38. > :44:47.opposed by the doctors, the nurses and the patients. Before the

:44:47. > :44:52.reorganisation. That is what he said. Isn't it time he kept at

:44:52. > :44:59.least one promise? Put aside his pride and arrogance and a drop this

:44:59. > :45:03.unnecessary and unwanted bill. I know that he panics and backs

:45:03. > :45:12.down at the first sign of a trade unions say No But this government

:45:12. > :45:16.does not. If you introduce choice, transparency, competition, if you

:45:16. > :45:21.say that the private and voluntary sectors should pay greater role,

:45:21. > :45:27.you face a challenge. But that is what doing the right thing you

:45:27. > :45:32.sometimes all about. Lettin remember what his Health Secretary

:45:32. > :45:37.said when he was in government. He said about GP commissioning, the

:45:37. > :45:41.change will put power in the hands of local GPs to drive improvements

:45:41. > :45:51.in their area so it should give more power to their elbow than they

:45:51. > :46:04.

:46:04. > :46:07.have a presence. That is what I Following the Piper Alpha disaster

:46:07. > :46:12.in and will see, this company developed a safety regime for

:46:12. > :46:22.offshore oil and gas which is now threatened by the EU. Will he do

:46:22. > :46:31.

:46:31. > :46:37.his best to persuade the rest of the EU that what we need is...

:46:37. > :46:41.Robert Smith is stuck for his words at the moment. Sorry, Mr Speaker.

:46:41. > :46:46.Not regulation but a directive which can be implemented flexibly.

:46:46. > :46:49.I think I Honourable Friend makes an important point. I well remember

:46:49. > :46:54.the Piper Alpha disaster and the huge suffering and loss of life

:46:54. > :46:58.that caused. Since that day we have put in place a world-leading system

:46:58. > :47:00.of regulation, and I will do everything I can to support the

:47:00. > :47:08.climate change secretary to make sure that we get a result in Europe

:47:08. > :47:11.that means we can go on with the right regulations for the North Sea.

:47:11. > :47:16.On 2nd May 1920 10 the Prime Minister said the test of a good

:47:16. > :47:19.society was how it cared for the frail and vulnerable, even more

:47:19. > :47:23.important in difficult economic times. Will the Prime Minister not

:47:23. > :47:28.be defending the basic sense of decency of the British people if he

:47:28. > :47:32.persists at next week with proposals to take away up to �94

:47:32. > :47:37.per week in employment and support allowance from up to 7,000

:47:37. > :47:42.recovering cancer patients across the country? What our plans

:47:42. > :47:48.envisage is actually more people with cancer receiving the greater

:47:48. > :47:52.level of benefit and fewer people will actually phase the interview.

:47:52. > :47:56.That is the case. There are two types of employment and support

:47:56. > :48:00.allowance. On the support group, you get that money for ever for as

:48:00. > :48:05.long as you need it, as long as you are unable to work. Many people

:48:05. > :48:09.with cancer will go straight into that group, and quite right too.

:48:09. > :48:12.I know that my right honorable Friend is aware that Coryton oil

:48:12. > :48:16.refinery in my constituency went into protective administration

:48:16. > :48:21.yesterday and, while the future is uncertain, it is by no means bleak.

:48:21. > :48:25.Does my right Hon will Friend agree with me that what is now needed to

:48:25. > :48:29.protect the 1000 jobs the refinery at provides is the full support of

:48:29. > :48:31.customers and suppliers and for accurate reporting of the situation.

:48:31. > :48:35.Will the Prime Minister agreed to ensure that I meet with all

:48:35. > :48:43.relevant ministers to discuss what further action the Government can

:48:43. > :48:47.take to secure or... Order. Honourable Friend is right to raise

:48:47. > :48:51.this issue and to mention the importance of the customers and

:48:51. > :48:54.suppliers and the role that they play. I will certainly make sure

:48:54. > :48:58.that he meets with ministers as appropriate. The key thing is the

:48:58. > :49:02.role of the administrator, and the administrator has made it clear

:49:03. > :49:07.that its priority is to continue to operate the refinery operations at

:49:07. > :49:10.Coryton and other sites in the UK while the financial position is

:49:10. > :49:14.clarified and the restructuring options are explored. We are

:49:14. > :49:22.confident that the administrator is doing all it can, but we will keep

:49:22. > :49:27.on the placed -- case will -- case. The existing controls on the

:49:27. > :49:32.movement of terrorist suspects lapsed today, which includes the

:49:32. > :49:37.case of suspected CD of the who Mr Justice Owen said "relocation is a

:49:37. > :49:42.necessary measure to protect the public from an immediate and real

:49:42. > :49:46.risk of a terrorist related attack". Could the Prime Minister therefore

:49:46. > :49:51.tell the House why his government supported that relocation at the

:49:51. > :49:56.court hearing last year, but has still -- since legislated to remove

:49:56. > :50:01.it and to give freedom to suspect CD and others like him to come to

:50:01. > :50:04.London in the run-up to the Olympic Games? Most people across this

:50:04. > :50:08.house realise that the Control Order regime needed reform. It did

:50:08. > :50:13.not have public confidence and nor did it have confidence of many

:50:13. > :50:17.people in the police security services. We have reformed it, we

:50:17. > :50:23.have worked with the security services and put in all resources

:50:23. > :50:27.they believe are necessary to make sure our country is kept safe.

:50:27. > :50:32.Following the renewable energy subsidy review, will the Prime

:50:32. > :50:36.Minister assured tax payers that this government will focus its

:50:36. > :50:42.support on technologies that are cost-effective and reliable, rather

:50:42. > :50:46.than inefficient costly large scale onshore wind farms? My right

:50:46. > :50:50.honorable Friend will know that the renewable obligation banding review

:50:50. > :50:54.has just closed, and it was proposing targeting only the most

:50:54. > :50:59.cost-effective onshore wind farms, recognising that it is now one of

:50:59. > :51:03.the mature and cheaper technologies, and we should, as he says, increase

:51:04. > :51:07.support for an expansion in a sustainable biomass generation

:51:07. > :51:17.which is cost effective and will help us to meet our renewables

:51:17. > :51:17.

:51:17. > :51:21.target. On Friday, Holocaust Memorial Day commemorates the

:51:21. > :51:24.liberation of the concentration camp at Auschwitz. What can the

:51:25. > :51:29.promise to do to ensure that all of our society understand the

:51:29. > :51:34.depravity of the era of Nazi evil and learn the lessons of it for the

:51:34. > :51:37.present? I think the Honourable Lady, who has a long record of

:51:37. > :51:41.supporting this cause, speaks for the whole nation in raising the

:51:41. > :51:46.importance of it. I met with representatives of the Holocaust

:51:46. > :51:49.Education Trust yesterday, and met with a Holocaust survivor whose

:51:49. > :51:54.story was truly inspiring about what he had seen and gone through

:51:54. > :51:57.as a young boy, and then coming to Britain and becoming an Olympic and

:51:57. > :52:00.Commonwealth contender. It was a fantastic story. We need to make

:52:00. > :52:05.sure that these stories are told in all of our schools right across the

:52:05. > :52:12.country. That is the work of the Holocaust Education Trust and it is

:52:12. > :52:15.worker I strongly support. I wonder if the Prime Minister is aware that

:52:15. > :52:22.if one takes the whole of Lancashire, the average household

:52:22. > :52:25.income after tax is a little above �26,000. While my constitute --

:52:25. > :52:29.constituents want a fair day for those who deserve benefits, they

:52:29. > :52:36.also want a fair deal for those who work. The Honourable Gentleman

:52:36. > :52:40.speaks for many people when we say that the proposal for a cap on

:52:40. > :52:46.benefits of �26,000 is fair. It is a cat that allows people to receive

:52:46. > :52:51.�500 a day. His constituents -- a week. His constituents ask

:52:51. > :52:55.themselves, is it right that my heart and taxes, when I am learning

:52:55. > :52:58.-- earning less than that money, is going to support people on

:52:58. > :53:02.benefits? I must say how disappointing it was that after the

:53:02. > :53:06.Labour Party said it would support a cat the announcement was made on

:53:07. > :53:14.the BBC and we were all told that they would support it, but in the

:53:14. > :53:18.Other Place they voted against it. What a complete act of hypocrisy.

:53:18. > :53:23.Can the Prime Minister explain why ministerial advisers and senior

:53:23. > :53:27.civil servants continue to attend networking events with lobbyists

:53:27. > :53:30.who paid several thousand pounds to attend, despite the fact that the

:53:30. > :53:37.Cabinet Office had deemed this to be a breach of the Civil Service

:53:37. > :53:42.Code and had previously issued a ban on attendance? Unlike under the

:53:43. > :53:46.previous government, there is a proper system for declaring the

:53:46. > :53:56.interests of special advisers and ministers. But did not used to be

:53:56. > :54:01.

:54:01. > :54:07.the case. It is now the case. benefits cut will affect the

:54:07. > :54:11.disabled and those claiming tax benefits. Does he not agree that my

:54:11. > :54:14.constituents deserve to know they have a government that is on the

:54:14. > :54:19.side of families who did the right thing and support their local

:54:19. > :54:24.communities? The Honourable Gentleman speaks powerfully about

:54:24. > :54:28.this issue, and that is where a benefit cap is fair. He is also

:54:28. > :54:33.important to recognise that we are excluded from that cap those

:54:33. > :54:36.entitled to working tax credit, household with someone claiming

:54:36. > :54:40.disability living allowance, and there will always be a hardship

:54:40. > :54:43.fund, a grace period, a way of helping those families to cope with

:54:43. > :54:47.this cap and to make sure, where possible, we get people into work.

:54:47. > :54:52.The real shame is that there are so many millions of children who live

:54:52. > :55:02.in households where nobody works and, indeed, that number doubled

:55:02. > :55:03.

:55:03. > :55:10.under the last government. Prime Minister has said "it would

:55:10. > :55:13.be a personal failure of bangs decrees lending to businesses". And

:55:13. > :55:18.yet businesses are still not getting what they need from the

:55:18. > :55:21.banks. Have the banks betrayed the Prime Minister or have their Prime

:55:21. > :55:25.Minister betrayed businesses? have put in place at the Merlin

:55:25. > :55:28.agreement which actually lead to an increase in bank lending last year.

:55:28. > :55:32.What we now have in place is a massive credit easing programme

:55:32. > :55:35.that the Chancellor announced in the Autumn Statement. That will be

:55:35. > :55:38.taking this here and make sure that the banks are doing what they ought

:55:38. > :55:48.to do in a free enterprise economy, and that is to lend to businesses

:55:48. > :55:53.large and small. I am sure there will be families with children that

:55:54. > :55:59.may have difficulties with the new benefit regime. However, would the

:56:00. > :56:04.Prime Minister care to comment on the feelings of elderly couples

:56:04. > :56:11.that have spent their entire life working for this country, paid into

:56:11. > :56:18.the spare its -- state pension system, and are now existing on

:56:18. > :56:22.about �7,000 a year, rather than �26,000 a year? My Honourable

:56:22. > :56:26.Friend makes a very good point, and the fact is, if you look at the

:56:26. > :56:30.figures today, there are still families in London who are

:56:30. > :56:35.receiving housing benefit worth over �50,000 a year. Each one of

:56:35. > :56:39.those families is taking up the hard earned taxes of many working

:56:39. > :56:43.people earning far less, who would not dream of living in houses like

:56:43. > :56:47.those. The point he makes about pensioners is right, and I am proud

:56:47. > :56:51.of the fact that this government will be increasing the basic state

:56:51. > :56:57.pension by �5 a week starting in April because we believe in dignity

:56:57. > :57:01.and security for our pensioners in old age. What does the Prime

:57:01. > :57:04.Minister made of the National Audit Office's slating of his flagship

:57:04. > :57:09.work programme? They said that the Government has overestimated the

:57:09. > :57:14.number of people it will put back to work. This is not so much a work

:57:14. > :57:19.programme as a doesn't work programme. Instead of just reading

:57:19. > :57:24.the press release, he ought to read the report! Actually it praises the

:57:24. > :57:28.Government for introducing a scheme in such a short period of time. But

:57:28. > :57:32.the basic issue that the National Audit Office is making is the work

:57:32. > :57:36.programme is not putting taxpayers' money at risk, it is putting the

:57:36. > :57:39.providers at risk. But as a different way of doing things. It

:57:39. > :57:42.is about payment by results, it is about getting better performance,

:57:42. > :57:50.it is about value for money - things that his government never

:57:50. > :57:55.provided. Like my Honourable Friends who work extremely hard for

:57:55. > :57:59.modest salaries, given that many people think that the benefit cap

:57:59. > :58:02.should be set at a lower level than �26,000, does my right Hon will

:58:02. > :58:07.Friend agree with me that the party opposite is completely out of touch

:58:07. > :58:12.by voting to make it higher? Honourable Friend makes a good

:58:12. > :58:21.point. Let me remind the right honorable Gentleman what he said.

:58:21. > :58:24.This was in 20th January 12. On the Today programme, "I am not against

:58:24. > :58:29.the Cap". If he isn't, then why couldn't he get his Labour peers to

:58:29. > :58:37.vote for it in the House of Lords? What is he, weak, incompetent, or

:58:37. > :58:42.both? On 14th December I asked the Prime Minister about cutting

:58:42. > :58:47.benefits for disabled children and he replied "first of all, we are

:58:47. > :58:53.not cutting benefits for disabled children.". I wonder whether he has

:58:53. > :58:56.checked his facts since that time and discovered that on that other

:58:56. > :58:59.December his coalition members in the Lords voted against the

:58:59. > :59:04.protection of benefits for disabled children under the new Universal

:59:04. > :59:09.Credit, resulting in a loss of �1,300. I will give the Prime

:59:09. > :59:16.Minister another go - how does this fit in with "we are all in this

:59:16. > :59:20.together"? I think the Honourable Lady is wrong. The money is going

:59:20. > :59:23.into universal credit for the most disabled told an and that is not

:59:23. > :59:26.being cut. But isn't it interesting that all of the questions we get

:59:26. > :59:30.from all other members opposite are always about calling for more

:59:30. > :59:38.spending. They have learned absolutely nothing about the mess

:59:38. > :59:41.they landed this country in. British Airways have announced

:59:41. > :59:44.plans to take over BMI. Although this is being challenged under

:59:44. > :59:48.competition rules, what assurances can the Prime Minister give that

:59:48. > :59:52.the landing slots at Heathrow for keep regional airports such as

:59:52. > :59:58.Aberdeen will be protected if this is allowed to go ahead? This is an

:59:58. > :00:01.important point. I will look into this issue about landing slots. I

:00:01. > :00:11.know how important this issue is for regional airports, and I will

:00:11. > :00:21.

:00:21. > :00:25.It is not what the reforms do at all. What the reforms do is ensure

:00:25. > :00:34.that you can have some private sector and voluntary sector

:00:34. > :00:39.activity going on within the NHS. Before... Why doesn't he listen to

:00:39. > :00:44.what his own secretary said? His Health Secretary said this, the

:00:44. > :00:54.private sector but his capacity into the NHS for the benefit of NHS

:00:54. > :00:56.

:00:56. > :01:04.patients. -- puts. Says they have gone into government -- opposition,

:01:04. > :01:14.they are totally irresponsible. I stand by what you said in 2007!

:01:14. > :01:16.

:01:16. > :01:20.Pity what you -- that you cannot stick by it. Is the Prime Minister

:01:20. > :01:25.aware of mind -- the brutal murder of my constituent in Germany last

:01:25. > :01:30.year. Will the Prime is to make sure the government does everything

:01:30. > :01:36.possible to support his mother in dealing with the financial cost she

:01:36. > :01:41.now faces to see justice for her son?

:01:41. > :01:47.My Honourable Friend is right to raise this case. I offer my sincere

:01:47. > :01:52.condolences to the family. I know what a distressing time it will be

:01:52. > :01:56.for her. The Foreign Office will do everything it can to support her

:01:56. > :02:00.and her family. I have been quite impressed by what the Foreign

:02:00. > :02:10.Office has done in cases like these. They do show the sympathy and

:02:10. > :02:16.

:02:16. > :02:26.understanding. 25 % of constituents have Sculley told diseases. --

:02:26. > :02:27.

:02:27. > :02:32.skeletal. Will be Prime Minister agree to see representatives with

:02:32. > :02:39.me in the near future? I will certainly look at the case. One of

:02:39. > :02:47.the poise of the NHS reforms, it is not yet fully understood, the idea

:02:47. > :02:57.of having the public budgets properly ring-fenced in each area.

:02:57. > :03:00.

:03:00. > :03:04.Art will be able to help with many of these. -- that. Nobody should

:03:04. > :03:09.earn more in benefits than hard- working families. Does the Prime

:03:09. > :03:18.Minister not agree with me it is a damned disgrace that the Labour

:03:18. > :03:25.Party is trying to wreck this important measure? Moderation!

:03:25. > :03:29.Moderation in the use of parliamentary language.

:03:29. > :03:33.It is an important point. This is an important decision that the

:03:33. > :03:37.House of Commons has got to make. We were told the Labour party would

:03:37. > :03:41.support a cap on benefits, they have said that repeatedly and yet

:03:41. > :03:47.when the challenge comes, they duck the challenge and refused to

:03:47. > :03:54.support it. They will have another chance when the legislation comes

:03:54. > :04:00.back to this house. It is no use shaking your head. People in this

:04:00. > :04:05.country will not understand why they are taking a decision. Point

:04:05. > :04:14.of order. That is Prime Minister's Questions over for another week. A

:04:14. > :04:23.pretty varied show this time around. Plenty of MPs wanting to challenge

:04:23. > :04:28.diva Carmen on -- David Cameron on NHS policy. Apologies for the

:04:28. > :04:33.swearing. I am not going to swear! We will

:04:33. > :04:41.see what our guests have to say. We will come on to discussing welfare

:04:41. > :04:46.later on. Let's look at the NHS in England.

:04:46. > :04:51.We hear it mentioned in the Chamber often enough by Carwyn Jones, he

:04:51. > :04:55.attacks your party for what he thinks you're doing in England. It

:04:55. > :05:03.was coming under fire from Edna the ban. The Prime Minister was

:05:03. > :05:08.floundering a bet -- Ed Miliband. We should be talking about the NHS

:05:08. > :05:15.in Wales, it is facing its own problems. Ed Miliband mentioned

:05:15. > :05:20.waiting times. But they are worse in Wales. They should be

:05:20. > :05:25.concentrating on that. It is fair to say there is

:05:25. > :05:29.consternation about it. We had examples of doctors supporting what

:05:29. > :05:34.the government is doing in England. But some leadership has got to be

:05:34. > :05:42.taken on this. That is what we are getting from the UK government.

:05:42. > :05:47.This has actually come from the GPS originally. The government is

:05:47. > :05:52.falling for one ideas that came from grassroots level.

:05:52. > :05:58.These changes, it seems to me, are not receiving wholesale support

:05:58. > :06:03.from the NHS staff in England. We have got a mention about the

:06:03. > :06:08.private sector involvement. What do you think? Frustration. We are

:06:08. > :06:14.talking about the NHS in England. Without harking back to the fact

:06:14. > :06:18.that there is he diverges happening, it is maybe not being reflected as

:06:18. > :06:22.it should be, Welsh MPs contributing to a debate about the

:06:22. > :06:25.NHS in England but interestingly, when it comes to the discussion

:06:25. > :06:31.about privatisation, Carwyn Jones has made it clear in Wales that the

:06:31. > :06:37.Labour government in Wales would not support that. But interestingly,

:06:37. > :06:41.while for Labour MPs voted in favour of exactly that. - Welsh.

:06:41. > :06:47.Carwyn Jones was defending the Welsh point of view without

:06:47. > :06:50.criticising his own MPs. We saw again last week, Welsh Members of

:06:51. > :06:57.Parliament voting in favour of reducing the budget for the Common

:06:57. > :07:02.Agricultural Policy. In Wales, they have made it clear it would be

:07:02. > :07:04.detrimental to the interests of Welsh farmers. It is becoming

:07:04. > :07:10.increasingly difficult for Carwyn Jones to say he is speaking on

:07:10. > :07:18.behalf of the Labour Party in Wales. His MPs are voting for examples of

:07:18. > :07:21.policies that go against the grain of what he wants to do in Wales.

:07:21. > :07:25.Sticking to constitutional issues, moving away from the NHS, there was

:07:25. > :07:32.not as much discussion on the independence question for Scotland

:07:32. > :07:36.as we may have thought. But there was one question from the SNP.

:07:37. > :07:46.predictable question and a predictable answer. It has not

:07:47. > :07:49.

:07:49. > :07:53.enhanced the debate in any respect. Yes, it was raised. I think an SNP

:07:53. > :08:01.is obliged to raise that issue, when given the opportunity. The

:08:01. > :08:10.Prime Minister is obliged to answer. No surprise. Only one of the

:08:10. > :08:14.Scottish MPs mentioned it. You're not one to mention it any more!

:08:14. > :08:17.We are going to mention it some more, and surprisingly. Later on,

:08:17. > :08:23.some members of the House of Lords have given the coalition Government

:08:23. > :08:27.a bloody nose over the issue of welfare reform. I promise you

:08:27. > :08:36.earlier a trip to Scotland to hear about the plans for a referendum on

:08:36. > :08:43.independence. I like to keep my promises.

:08:43. > :08:47.Good afternoon. Hello.

:08:47. > :08:52.We have had lots of stuff overnight, the kind of things that Alex

:08:52. > :08:55.Salmond has been saying. You have been up there for a couple of hours.

:08:55. > :09:05.What are the other party saying in Scotland that we are maybe not

:09:05. > :09:06.

:09:07. > :09:12.hearing? I now have all the answers. People are waiting to cheer what

:09:12. > :09:16.Alex Salmond has to say this afternoon, spelling out his plans

:09:16. > :09:23.to members first and then a trip up to Edinburgh Castle to spell out

:09:23. > :09:29.what I suppose are fairly grand plans from the SNP's point of view.

:09:29. > :09:35.He did reveal some things in his speech in London yesterday, a

:09:35. > :09:45.speech aimed at eight different audience. But having to concede a

:09:45. > :09:58.

:09:58. > :10:03.But the sense you really get from being in Scotland is this is very

:10:03. > :10:08.much at the start of a long debate and questions being asked and

:10:08. > :10:13.worked out, let alone answer has been given.

:10:13. > :10:19.Is there an acceptance in Scotland this is the main issue? While this

:10:19. > :10:24.constitutional debate goes on, people still need public services.

:10:24. > :10:30.Do people accept that maybe the run of the country needs to take a

:10:30. > :10:35.backstage? I think you have pointed to

:10:35. > :10:40.something that is quite different. It is different in Wales. In

:10:40. > :10:47.Scotland, there has been a feeling that what the SNP has managed to do

:10:47. > :10:52.is take the fear out of the debate on independence. They do not slam

:10:52. > :10:55.their door in the cases of SNP politicians any more. They can say,

:10:55. > :11:02.I do not agree with independence but let me hear about your other

:11:03. > :11:07.policies. In Wales, the cart and horse are the other way around.

:11:07. > :11:12.Independence is raised and the argument is put, we do not care

:11:12. > :11:17.about that at the moment. We have more important things to worry

:11:17. > :11:21.about. It is very different. But there is an acceptance that

:11:21. > :11:27.independence or further devolution for that matter -- matter would be

:11:27. > :11:32.for a purpose. One of the things that Alex Salmond will have to do

:11:32. > :11:39.is explain what would independence mean. What does it amount to? Does

:11:39. > :11:49.it mean more money, less money, neutral? What does it mean as far

:11:49. > :11:49.

:11:49. > :11:53.as public services are concerned? Those questions have not been asked.

:11:53. > :12:00.Final question, Alex Salmon gave a big hint in his speech that he

:12:00. > :12:09.would like to see this question on the referendum ballot paper -- Alex

:12:09. > :12:15.Salmond. Explain to us what it is. It sounds like an energy drink,

:12:15. > :12:20.somebody said. Essentially, it is independent but stopping short of

:12:20. > :12:27.that by way of saying there is more fiscal power, Scotland would be

:12:27. > :12:34.responsible for raising cash and not just bending it, -- spending it,

:12:34. > :12:37.defence and so one would remain at Westminster. People are still

:12:37. > :12:47.trying to work out what that is good. It can mean a number of

:12:47. > :12:52.things to a number of people. It was quite a clever explanation to

:12:52. > :12:56.say, I want independence but if he thinks that is the way to get a yes

:12:56. > :13:00.vote, he says if that is what civil society, that is where the debate

:13:00. > :13:10.is an people want to see that on the calling-card, perhaps it should

:13:10. > :13:15.

:13:15. > :13:21.be there. -- polling card. We will have more on Wales Today

:13:21. > :13:30.this evening. The UK government says it will go ahead with plans to

:13:30. > :13:35.reform welfare payments. Our a Porter has been discussing

:13:35. > :13:38.the issue. -- reporter. The thorniest issue in Parliament

:13:38. > :13:43.at the moment is to do with the government's plans to reform

:13:43. > :13:46.benefits. The House of Lords has shown their opposition to the

:13:46. > :13:55.government's plans this week by voting against the government's

:13:55. > :14:04.plans. What are your opinions were the

:14:04. > :14:09.cars to the changes in benefits? needs reform and improving. But

:14:09. > :14:15.where I disagree, it is one size fits all. We clearly saw this week

:14:15. > :14:22.when we attempted to... If people will be made homeless, that it

:14:22. > :14:25.happened. Mike German and his colleagues voted against us on that.

:14:25. > :14:31.The bishop said that child allowances should not be taken into

:14:31. > :14:38.account. I agree with him on that. These are the most honourable

:14:38. > :14:42.people in our society. They have to bear the burden and the problems.

:14:42. > :14:48.Mike German and his colleagues voted against that. One size fits

:14:48. > :14:50.all is not the answer. Go -- the government are trying to target

:14:50. > :14:53.those people that do not want to work and are living on benefits.

:14:53. > :14:59.They are in some cases living a better life than those people going

:14:59. > :15:05.out to work. We do have people like that and it should not be allowed

:15:05. > :15:11.but targeting children as a result of that? I cannot accept that.

:15:11. > :15:21.you consider there are people living on benefits in the same road

:15:21. > :15:27.

:15:27. > :15:32.as a very rich music star, you The government is saying they will

:15:32. > :15:37.guarantee nobody will be made homeless. I voted against a Labour

:15:37. > :15:40.amendment which would intervene... You voted for that. You expected

:15:40. > :15:46.from the Tories, but the lip of doing the Tories' dirty work is a

:15:46. > :15:50.bit much. The answer is, people will not be made homeless. There

:15:50. > :15:53.will always be a place for people to live. People may have to move

:15:53. > :15:59.and that is part of the process, but you must remember that people

:15:59. > :16:03.on benefits, it is not the best life they could possibly have. If

:16:03. > :16:07.you lock people into a benefits structure, it is going to avoid all

:16:07. > :16:10.aspiration of wanting to work. We know that has been in built for a

:16:10. > :16:13.small number of people in our society and we have got to change

:16:13. > :16:18.that pattern and give people hope and aspiration. There will be no

:16:18. > :16:23.one left homeless, guaranteed. is what we have always done. But

:16:23. > :16:27.the idea that guarantees will be made about people not being made

:16:27. > :16:32.homeless - my colleagues would have prevented that that the voter is

:16:32. > :16:37.that measure. It was wrong. It was wrong to prevent people becoming

:16:37. > :16:40.homeless. That is what you did - you allowed -- voted to allow the

:16:40. > :16:44.Government that if people become homeless there is now intervention

:16:44. > :16:49.to prevent this happening. And then what happens? It becomes another

:16:49. > :16:52.cost on the state because then the state is obliged to provide him as

:16:52. > :16:57.people with accommodation. I think there are people who understand

:16:57. > :17:01.that we have to make these decisions, but the crucial thing is,

:17:01. > :17:08.will there be intervention on the Government to ensure that no one

:17:08. > :17:13.mates -- gets home us? You bet your life they will. We have had all

:17:13. > :17:16.this rhetoric, we are not just going to take a Labour amendment

:17:16. > :17:21.which put a blanket policy in place, which is just the sort of thing

:17:21. > :17:26.that has caused the trouble in our society. We must treat people as

:17:26. > :17:30.individuals, and that work will continue to work so that people

:17:30. > :17:34.don't have to languish on benefits and that no one takes him benefit

:17:34. > :17:38.more than the average people in our society. I am collaborating with

:17:38. > :17:44.the Tories in order to do this. We expect the Tories to do it, but the

:17:44. > :17:47.Liberals - you should be ashamed of yourselves. When the most

:17:47. > :17:50.vulnerable people are taking home in benefits the average earnings of

:17:50. > :17:54.people in this country, then half the people are the most vulnerable,

:17:54. > :17:59.that is what you are saying. voted against the bishops amendment

:17:59. > :18:03.which would have protected children. How do you protect children. There

:18:03. > :18:07.are people in society who will not work, but the idea that you then

:18:07. > :18:12.make the children of those parents vulnerable by taking away support I

:18:12. > :18:17.think is just morally wrong. have given a guarantee that no one

:18:17. > :18:20.will be made homeless. That is the Government's guarantee. There will

:18:20. > :18:27.be help and assistance to make sure that the most vulnerable children

:18:27. > :18:33.are protected. We will certainly not have to go down a route with a

:18:33. > :18:35.blanket policy so we raise the level of cap and people can get

:18:35. > :18:42.benefits amounting to more than the average earnings in this country.

:18:42. > :18:46.Most working people struggling to make ends meet will recognise that.

:18:46. > :18:49.Tory populist nonsense. The Liberal Democrats have sold out just for

:18:49. > :18:55.power. They have sold out their consciences and the people of Wales

:18:55. > :19:00.will recognise that come the next election. They don't give a damn

:19:00. > :19:03.about the poorest and most disadvantaged. What we will

:19:03. > :19:09.guarantee is that we will help people to get back to work, help

:19:09. > :19:13.people to live properly. We have no growth in the economy! When we left

:19:13. > :19:21.power, the economy was growing. economy has had the biggest deficit

:19:21. > :19:25.in my whole lifestyle -- lifetime. Labour -- Labour has left us with

:19:25. > :19:30.one trillion pounds worth of debt at the moment. We have to put it

:19:30. > :19:34.right. People like John can say what will keep the money, keep

:19:34. > :19:40.spending, and we will be in the bottom of the train as far as our

:19:40. > :19:46.country is concerned. -- drain. Of course we have to repay our debts,

:19:46. > :19:51.we all know that. Labour are not opposed to the cuts, they say. They

:19:51. > :19:55.want no cuts - that is the position of Labour. Why doesn't he talked to

:19:55. > :19:59.his party leader and find out what an -- Ed Miliband wants for his

:20:00. > :20:05.country. Do you agree with Ed Balls? Where are the jobs these

:20:05. > :20:09.people are going to have? You have sold out for a share of power.

:20:09. > :20:15.Liberal-Democrats in Wales should be ashamed of themselves.

:20:15. > :20:18.should be tried -- trying to be consistent with your party policies.

:20:18. > :20:24.This is just endless rhetoric and people will understand the fairness

:20:24. > :20:28.of what the Government is doing. Thank you both very much.

:20:28. > :20:33.It seems that the Lords are taking it easy there in Westminster!

:20:33. > :20:41.Hopefully we will have a bit more of a mature debate perhaps on the

:20:41. > :20:45.sofa here. Let's look at the issue of the benefit cap, this figure of

:20:45. > :20:48.some �500 a week. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I am glad the

:20:48. > :20:52.Lords have taken this decision and I am disappointed with the

:20:52. > :20:57.discussion we had there because it was too focused on selling at full

:20:57. > :21:01.power and so on. Let's bring this debate back to the people who are

:21:01. > :21:05.dependent on this money for their day-to-day livelihoods. There are

:21:05. > :21:09.people, of course, and regrettably am sure there will always be people

:21:09. > :21:16.who tried to play the system, but we should not punish everyone with

:21:16. > :21:21.that same label. That is unfair, and to penalise the children is a

:21:21. > :21:25.retrograde, to say the least. As a your against the cap? I am, yes.

:21:26. > :21:32.think it is accepted that a cap is a good idea. I know that Labour

:21:32. > :21:35.Party will be inconsistent on where that cap should be set, but �500 a

:21:35. > :21:39.week is more than quite a lot of people who are working get, and I

:21:39. > :21:42.am sure there will be people watching this programme who will

:21:42. > :21:47.recognise what has saved. If you are talking about fairness, it is

:21:47. > :21:52.not about hitting the most vulnerable. People with disability

:21:52. > :21:57.living allowance in the family will not be affected by this cap, and

:21:57. > :22:01.neither with families earning the tax credit. This should encourage

:22:01. > :22:05.them back into work. Also, with the childcare element, that will also

:22:05. > :22:09.be excluded as well. The other thing I wanted to mention is that

:22:09. > :22:12.people living on pensions at the moment with no control over their

:22:12. > :22:17.income and reliant on interest rates being as low as they are,

:22:17. > :22:21.they are having to cope, so why should somebody be doing better

:22:22. > :22:27.than them were made to date have the opportunity to work? What do

:22:27. > :22:31.you think these changes, what effect do you think they have on

:22:31. > :22:35.the public perception that your party is hitting the vulnerable?

:22:35. > :22:38.There is a sense of that, isn't there? My understanding is that the

:22:38. > :22:43.majority in Britain actually approve of these plans. They

:22:43. > :22:46.approve of the whole fairness agenda. Perhaps not the people who

:22:46. > :22:50.were receiving the benefits? depends which benefits you are

:22:50. > :23:00.talking about. There will all -- always be some people who play the

:23:00. > :23:01.

:23:01. > :23:05.system in this country. You can see why there is an enthusiasm for

:23:05. > :23:08.fairness across the board here. danger is that we will be seeing

:23:08. > :23:18.people, particularly in parts of London, being forced out of their

:23:18. > :23:18.

:23:18. > :23:24.houses because there would be able to afford the rent, and that will

:23:24. > :23:30.mean people being shifted to areas where they just aren't any jobs for

:23:30. > :23:37.them to take up. We must leave it there for now. In the meantime,

:23:37. > :23:45.time to go back to Mark. I am joined by the Labour am for the

:23:45. > :23:50.rich South. We are talking about a document your party produced. We

:23:50. > :23:56.have had all these already. Why did you feel the need to put them into

:23:56. > :24:00.a single document? It is a progress report. It is a progress report and

:24:00. > :24:04.it is mapping out the future. Ice is the first time I have ever heard

:24:04. > :24:08.criticism for a progress report. had merely said that we have heard

:24:08. > :24:11.what we is in it before. We are trying to make sure that we

:24:11. > :24:16.communicate effectively in a way that journalists cannot

:24:16. > :24:22.misunderstand, in a way that our opponents cannot misrepresent our

:24:22. > :24:24.aims. We have set out what we have achieved in the past eight months.

:24:24. > :24:28.�40 million rolled up for small and medium-sized enterprises will bring

:24:28. > :24:32.on board 500 community support officers, we are making sure that

:24:32. > :24:37.moves to have easier access to doctors' surgeries come on line, so

:24:37. > :24:40.it is a progress report as well as our plans for the next four years.

:24:40. > :24:44.Quite unusual to make these progress reports, particularly when

:24:44. > :24:48.there is no election on the horizon. Have you been stung by critics who

:24:48. > :24:52.say you are not delivering? There is nothing revolutionary about this.

:24:52. > :24:55.This is about good and effective and responsible government. It is

:24:55. > :24:59.about making sure we communicate regularly with the people that we

:24:59. > :25:03.serve. It is important that people know it is not all doom and gloom

:25:03. > :25:08.from the UK coalition government, that we can make things different

:25:08. > :25:13.for Wales. In these times in particular, making sure we get our

:25:13. > :25:17.message out is really important for public confidence and optimism.

:25:17. > :25:21.would argue that there is a bit more aspiration then detail in her.

:25:21. > :25:25.If we look at house and, for example, you talk about how you

:25:25. > :25:28.want to provide more Herms and there is no target. When I asked

:25:28. > :25:33.the first minister about that yesterday, he did not have an

:25:33. > :25:36.answer either. �9 million has been made available for more affordable

:25:36. > :25:41.homes. We can actually gone to buy affordable homes in terms of the

:25:41. > :25:46.cost of bills. The key in this is that there are 22,000 empty hands

:25:46. > :25:49.at the moment. The Housing Minister has rightly said aside �5 million

:25:49. > :25:53.to bring on board does, so potentially, we could bring on a

:25:53. > :25:57.large proportion of those, whether we bring all of them into use I

:25:57. > :26:01.don't know. It is difficult to tell because some homes are empty for

:26:01. > :26:06.various reasons, but we put money where it is required and we target

:26:06. > :26:10.those homes. I understand there are those difficulties around the edges,

:26:10. > :26:14.but can you give an approximation? I should imagine we will be able to

:26:14. > :26:18.get those figures very soon. The key thing is that you can predict

:26:18. > :26:22.based on local authorities. Wrexham, for example, has been effective

:26:22. > :26:26.bringing to use empty homes, and there is any 190 now in Wrexham

:26:26. > :26:31.County Borough, whereas in other local authorities there are several

:26:31. > :26:39.thousand. We can produce estimates, or we hope we can produce estimates.

:26:39. > :26:42.That is complicated. GP opening hours. Are you just going to up

:26:42. > :26:46.until 6:30pm, because that is the evidence to the health committee,

:26:46. > :26:49.whereas you have given the impression it will go to 7pm or 8pm.

:26:49. > :26:53.The key is that there is consultation on this. Doctors'

:26:54. > :26:58.surgeries can be open correctly and as accessible as possible both in

:26:58. > :27:01.the evenings and on weekends. will have to see where that gets.

:27:01. > :27:05.Thank you for joining us. Sorry we could not get through more of your

:27:05. > :27:13.document. Thank you. We will get some

:27:13. > :27:16.reaction to what Ken Skates has had to say there. He would suggest that

:27:16. > :27:24.the Government is delivering plenty and doing lots. The document was

:27:24. > :27:30.slim. Market is wrong, there is a big election on the horizon. In May,

:27:30. > :27:34.the local authorities will be choosing their councillors. What do

:27:34. > :27:38.you think this document is for? There have been accusations that

:27:38. > :27:41.Carwyn Jones is leading a do- nothing government. Is this a

:27:41. > :27:46.response to that criticism? Yes, it is clearly an attempt to relaunch

:27:46. > :27:51.the Government. They are aware of their criticisms. I had been him

:27:51. > :27:54.nine months and I have not heard a single piece of legislation, no new

:27:54. > :27:59.capital spend, so what have they been doing with that time?

:27:59. > :28:03.Obviously, producing glossy brochures. Do you regret that may

:28:03. > :28:08.be you should have much -- should have had more to do? First

:28:08. > :28:14.Minister's Questions has become a disappointing experience as new

:28:14. > :28:18.Assembly Members. Are you enjoying your time here? I am enjoying it,

:28:18. > :28:21.yes, but I do feel frustrated. We spent many years to become an

:28:21. > :28:25.elected politician to make a difference, and then you get there

:28:25. > :28:30.and hit the buffers and nothing happens. The criticism that this is

:28:30. > :28:33.a do-nothing government is perfectly valid. The fact they felt

:28:33. > :28:40.obliged to produce this suggests to me that they are conscious that is