:00:00. > :00:00.After the tragic events in Manchester this week,
:00:00. > :00:07.what do you want and expect from your politicians?
:00:08. > :00:11.In two weeks' time, you will have your vote.
:00:12. > :00:12.Tonight, this audience have lots of questions,
:00:13. > :00:44.As politicians begin to return to the campaign trail
:00:45. > :00:47.after the heartbreaking events in Manchester, tonight
:00:48. > :00:50.we hear from two party leaders here in Wales.
:00:51. > :00:52.Our audience, a mix of undecided voters and supporters
:00:53. > :00:57.In half an hour, we will be joined by Ukip's leader
:00:58. > :00:59.in the Welsh Assembly, Neil Hamilton.
:01:00. > :01:08.But first, please welcome the leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.
:01:09. > :01:25.And our first question tonight comes from Hazel Kendall.
:01:26. > :01:28.In light of events in Manchester, do we need more police and military
:01:29. > :01:35.on the streets of Wales to tackle Islam extremism?
:01:36. > :01:39.Thank you for your question, and I'm glad that you've opened with that,
:01:40. > :01:47.because after what has happened, it would be strange if we didn't
:01:48. > :01:51.And I would like to first of all put my condolences
:01:52. > :01:54.on the record to everybody who is affected by those horrific
:01:55. > :01:57.And it was particularly cruel because it was so clearly targeted
:01:58. > :02:04.And hearing some of the harrowing accounts of parents who were looking
:02:05. > :02:06.for their children, not to find them, was particularly
:02:07. > :02:13.At a time like this, it's important, I think,
:02:14. > :02:16.to recognise the tremendous work that our public servants do
:02:17. > :02:24.in the emergency services and the health service as well.
:02:25. > :02:27.And it's pretty bad that those public workers have had to face
:02:28. > :02:32.so many deep and drastic cuts in recent years.
:02:33. > :02:36.That's particularly the case with the police.
:02:37. > :02:38.And I understand that Manchester police are going to be cut
:02:39. > :02:43.drastically over the next few years as well.
:02:44. > :02:45.So I think if anything we have to invest in those public
:02:46. > :02:51.services in the future, to show how much we value them.
:02:52. > :02:54.It's difficult to imagine doing a job where you have to run
:02:55. > :02:59.into a situation of danger when everybody else is running away.
:03:00. > :03:03.And I know that, from the police officers I have spoken to in recent
:03:04. > :03:06.times, there's a lot of anger there about those cuts,
:03:07. > :03:19.So, yes, we do need to invest in our police services
:03:20. > :03:22.and intelligence services, to try to do all that we can to make
:03:23. > :03:24.sure that our streets and our population is safe.
:03:25. > :03:26.But the question was also about the military.
:03:27. > :03:28.Would you welcome the military on the streets of Wales?
:03:29. > :03:31.I think we have to be careful about that.
:03:32. > :03:34.There are extreme conditions when we have military
:03:35. > :03:37.on our streets, and of course we are in an extreme situation.
:03:38. > :03:41.But I wouldn't want that to be the norm.
:03:42. > :03:44.I think that the police are there to do the job that they do,
:03:45. > :03:50.and they need to be given sufficient resources to do that job properly.
:03:51. > :03:53.And I would prefer police activity prioritised over military action.
:03:54. > :03:56.Although clearly in this situation, you can see why
:03:57. > :04:00.when it was critical, that the military were involved.
:04:01. > :04:05.Would that involve devolving counter-terrorism, for example?
:04:06. > :04:07.Would you want national security in the hands of politicians
:04:08. > :04:17.I think for counter-terrorism, there's a good argument
:04:18. > :04:20.for working across boundaries, whether that be between England
:04:21. > :04:24.and Wales and Scotland, or even wider throughout Europe.
:04:25. > :04:28.So, yes, I want to see the police devolved.
:04:29. > :04:31.But I would also want to see the cooperation that happens
:04:32. > :04:35.And it's particularly important in order to prevent incidences
:04:36. > :04:47.You say you want to be devolved from the police
:04:48. > :04:55.No, because the police is devolved in Scotland, for example,
:04:56. > :05:00.but there are still many aspects of cross border.
:05:01. > :05:02.They work cross border in Scotland, despite the fact
:05:03. > :05:09.But it is not devolved anti-terrorism, not in Scotland.
:05:10. > :05:12.But the police is devolved in Scotland, and the countries
:05:13. > :05:16.still cooperate in terms of anti-terrorism.
:05:17. > :05:18.Are you saying anti-terrorism should be devolved?
:05:19. > :05:20.No, police should be devolved but cooperation
:05:21. > :05:24.between countries should continue for anti-terrorism measures.
:05:25. > :05:27.So you don't want any form of Welsh MI5?
:05:28. > :05:28.Devolution stops at counter-terrorism
:05:29. > :05:34.I want the police devolved because I want Wales to have its own
:05:35. > :05:39.I want us to be able to create laws in Wales and have the enforcement
:05:40. > :05:46.But it does make sense for some operations,
:05:47. > :05:48.and counter-terrorism is an obvious one, for cooperation
:05:49. > :05:53.I think that should happen outside the UK as well.
:05:54. > :05:58.Do you feel you have had an answer, especially your point
:05:59. > :06:08.But I would like to bring to your attention that it was
:06:09. > :06:10.on the television earlier today that they had been aware that this
:06:11. > :06:21.young man had been known about as long as five years ago.
:06:22. > :06:24.So why weren't people actually keeping their eye on him,
:06:25. > :06:26.because five years is quite a long time?
:06:27. > :06:29.There are serious questions that need to be answered
:06:30. > :06:32.I understand that information was brought to the attention
:06:33. > :06:35.of various authorities on more than one occasion.
:06:36. > :06:38.So I have no doubt that people are going to have to answer some
:06:39. > :06:49.On that issue of surveillance and the Investigatory Powers Bill,
:06:50. > :06:51.Plaid Cymru members of parliament voted against that, which would have
:06:52. > :06:56.What we are concerned about is mass surveillance.
:06:57. > :06:59.Yes, targeted surveillance and really monitoring those people,
:07:00. > :07:03.like the person responsible for this, absolutely.
:07:04. > :07:06.The problem we have is monitoring everybody's e-mails.
:07:07. > :07:08.There is such a thing as information overload.
:07:09. > :07:11.You need to be able to target and focus down.
:07:12. > :07:13.If you are watching everyone, the chances are that
:07:14. > :07:22.We can't monitor everybody, but we need to get to
:07:23. > :07:25.Why is this happening, what are the causes?
:07:26. > :07:31.To mention Wales, we do have our own counter-terrorism work
:07:32. > :07:40.The Prevent strategy, that is a way of encouraging
:07:41. > :07:43.communities to look out at each other and inform the authorities
:07:44. > :07:51.I am concerned that it raises suspicions among people,
:07:52. > :07:56.and it can encourage divisions within communities.
:07:57. > :08:04.We do need to have a strategy to try and make sure that all of those
:08:05. > :08:07.people who are feeling outside of society, whoever they are,
:08:08. > :08:11.are able to be brought in, because if we are talking
:08:12. > :08:14.about getting to the root cause of some of this, I used to work
:08:15. > :08:18.Getting to the root cause of a problem is something I am
:08:19. > :08:22.But this is not easy and there is not one single answer.
:08:23. > :08:25.We have to look at foreign policy, at education and schools,
:08:26. > :08:37.One from the front and the gentleman in the back.
:08:38. > :08:40.You said about investing in the police, but does there need
:08:41. > :08:44.to be more investment in the surveillance people,
:08:45. > :08:47.if there is a large majority of people, there was a figure
:08:48. > :08:52.quoted, a large amount of people who need surveillance?
:08:53. > :08:54.Does there need to be more investment in that,
:08:55. > :08:57.or do you think there is enough investment in the resources, people
:08:58. > :09:12.A few minutes ago, in your talk about devolution you said,
:09:13. > :09:15.we would be able to produce and design our own laws under
:09:16. > :09:25.Surely that could imply having to have some sort of boundary,
:09:26. > :09:27.border, with England, dependent on the extremity
:09:28. > :09:29.of the laws you decide to create that are different
:09:30. > :09:37.There is a border between Wales and England and we have separate
:09:38. > :09:41.We don't have a border between Wales and England.
:09:42. > :09:44.I travel over that bridge practically every day and I do not
:09:45. > :09:49.You can travel freely within the European Union
:09:50. > :09:52.without showing your passport in many places, but that does not
:09:53. > :09:55.mean there are not borders between states and countries.
:09:56. > :10:01.I am not talking about any country outside of the UK.
:10:02. > :10:07.If you would like to quickly take this point.
:10:08. > :10:09.Does there need to be more investment in
:10:10. > :10:16.Are there enough resources, whether it be police or the people
:10:17. > :10:19.who are needing to monitor phones, or social media, or whatever it is,
:10:20. > :10:26.It seems a lot of people and do we have the resources?
:10:27. > :10:28.My understanding is that extra money has gone
:10:29. > :10:35.It is the wider police forces that have seen cuts.
:10:36. > :10:38.But yes, if there are people who need to be monitored and kept
:10:39. > :10:42.an eye on, then we should make sure the resources are there to do that.
:10:43. > :10:45.Otherwise we end up in a situation like we had a couple of days ago,
:10:46. > :10:54.Let's move on to our second question which comes from Leanne Lewis.
:10:55. > :11:00.Do you agree that we need more immigration to give the NHS going?
:11:01. > :11:06.That is a difficult thing to say as a politician
:11:07. > :11:09.in the context when many people want to see immigration reduced.
:11:10. > :11:14.But from a Welsh perspective and from the Welsh NHS perspective,
:11:15. > :11:17.the numbers of medics, doctors and nurses working in the
:11:18. > :11:26.And if they were all pulled out overnight and told to go home
:11:27. > :11:28.to their country of origin, we would be in crisis.
:11:29. > :11:30.We are already in crisis, you could argue.
:11:31. > :11:35.Wales has fewer doctors per head of population
:11:36. > :11:40.than almost every other EU country, bar two.
:11:41. > :11:43.We need to invest in doctors, because so many of our
:11:44. > :11:48.doctors and GPs are coming to retirement age.
:11:49. > :11:50.And there has been no plan to replace them.
:11:51. > :11:54.Back in 2014, Plaid Cymru put forward a policy to recruit
:11:55. > :12:00.and train 1000 extra doctors and 5000 extra nurses for our NHS,
:12:01. > :12:03.so that we could put that workforce plan in place,
:12:04. > :12:11.so we would not get to crisis point when those GPs retired.
:12:12. > :12:15.The Government has not put such a plan in place, and my concern now,
:12:16. > :12:19.as we leave the European Union, if the hardest possible Brexit
:12:20. > :12:23.is pursued and freedom of movement is ended,
:12:24. > :12:28.that we could face serious problems in terms of attracting doctors.
:12:29. > :12:31.I need to make the point that we have to plan
:12:32. > :12:34.to train our own doctors as well, and Plaid Cymru has been pushing
:12:35. > :12:37.quite hard for a new medical school in Bangor, for example,
:12:38. > :12:40.to increase the capacity, so that we can have more
:12:41. > :12:45.And we need to encourage them through the education system as well
:12:46. > :12:47.to apply for medicine, so that we can train
:12:48. > :12:55.So you would increase immigration into Wales?
:12:56. > :13:02.Wales has 5% of the population of the UK, so we would like control
:13:03. > :13:05.over 5% of the work visas that come in under the new system
:13:06. > :13:13.The reason we want to have responsibility over those visas
:13:14. > :13:17.is that there are particular pinch points in the Welsh economy
:13:18. > :13:21.and in our public services, where Labour from overseas is needed
:13:22. > :13:24.because, in the main, in some industries anyway,
:13:25. > :13:28.local populations do not want to do the work.
:13:29. > :13:32.So in order to make sure that we are able to keep our economy
:13:33. > :13:35.going and that we do not have big problems in certain sectors,
:13:36. > :13:37.we would like to be able to use a Welsh visa system
:13:38. > :13:52.We got into that position when Wales started off,
:13:53. > :13:55.you are saying Welsh people don't want to do this work.
:13:56. > :14:02.You are saying that Welsh people don't want to do these jobs.
:14:03. > :14:09.That is what I have been told by various employers who take
:14:10. > :14:15.There are a lot of employees out there on zero-hours
:14:16. > :14:25.contracts, which I think shouldn't be happening.
:14:26. > :14:27.Those contracts are actually using those in your own counsel,
:14:28. > :14:36.so your own council is applying zero-hour contracts.
:14:37. > :14:46.That demoralises society. Plaid Cymru has seven times tried to
:14:47. > :14:50.introduce legislation to abolish zero-hours contracts so that local
:14:51. > :14:53.councils that are currently employing people on zero-hours
:14:54. > :14:56.contracts, who are in competition with the private sector, in the care
:14:57. > :15:02.sector, so they will not be forced to go down that route. But Labour
:15:03. > :15:04.have voted against us seven different times. Despite that, it is
:15:05. > :15:16.in their manifesto. The agricultural workers around
:15:17. > :15:19.here, doing the farm work, even these car washes that have sprung
:15:20. > :15:24.up, people saying they have the immigrants caught the job. Have any
:15:25. > :15:28.of the people around here taken it up? No, they haven't. It's the same
:15:29. > :15:34.with farmworkers, all right? They haven't taken that up. The gentleman
:15:35. > :15:38.there? Everytime I see what the stage, Leanne, you talk about taking
:15:39. > :15:41.doctors and nurses from poorer countries and bringing them to
:15:42. > :15:46.Wales. Is that morally right, that these countries spend large amounts
:15:47. > :15:48.of their money to train doctors and nurses in and of developed countries
:15:49. > :15:53.and we come along and cherry pick them because we fancy a doctor? Is
:15:54. > :15:55.that morally right? I'm not necessarily talking about taking
:15:56. > :16:00.them from poorer countries. There are doctors in the EU, in other
:16:01. > :16:04.countries. We've already in some cases gone to Spain and recruited
:16:05. > :16:07.doctors from Spain. There are doctors who are unemployed as I
:16:08. > :16:10.understand it in countries like Greece as well. So the point is we
:16:11. > :16:14.don't have enough doctors. Ideally I would want to be having to look for
:16:15. > :16:20.our doctors overseas, but we don't have them in Wales. So what do we
:16:21. > :16:24.do? Do we say to people, you can't have a Doctor's are appointment for
:16:25. > :16:28.two months. No, we have to try to plug the gap. It takes a long time
:16:29. > :16:33.to train a doctor. If you introduced a new medical school, trained that
:16:34. > :16:37.doctor from scratch, you still have a gap to plug. We've had a Welsh
:16:38. > :16:42.Assembly for nearly 20 years. What's been happening all this time? Labour
:16:43. > :16:43.has been running it. Let's take a point there.
:16:44. > :16:49.APPLAUSE The gentleman at the back. I'd like
:16:50. > :16:52.to thank Leanne for asking that question and I'd like to thank
:16:53. > :16:57.Leanne over here for the way she answered it. Leanne, would you say
:16:58. > :17:00.that on balance immigration benefits Wales, and also could you say what
:17:01. > :17:05.you think of those people who already are trying to link
:17:06. > :17:12.immigration, disgracefully, with terrorism?
:17:13. > :17:16.APPLAUSE I've heard some quite concerning
:17:17. > :17:22.statements from some politicians who should know better on that front and
:17:23. > :17:30.I would say what has happened in Manchester is horrific, but if we
:17:31. > :17:34.allow ourselves to be divided, if we turn on those people in our
:17:35. > :17:38.communities who are from a Muslim background, then the terrorists have
:17:39. > :17:44.won. And we should not allow that to happen. We have to remain united, we
:17:45. > :17:49.have to stand together. I've heard scores of Muslims talking on the TV
:17:50. > :17:55.and the radio about how a Boruc they find these attacks and I stand in
:17:56. > :18:00.solidarity with those Muslims in our communities who want to work with as
:18:01. > :18:03.to stop that -- how Iborra and they find these attacks. Let's remember
:18:04. > :18:07.something on this, those people who carry out those atrocities they
:18:08. > :18:11.don't like women in politics. They wouldn't want to see a female leader
:18:12. > :18:17.of a political party. They don't like people going to music concerts.
:18:18. > :18:21.So we should make absolutely sure that we continue with our politics,
:18:22. > :18:23.our uniting politics, where we stamp out division and we should also go
:18:24. > :18:34.to music concerts. APPLAUSE
:18:35. > :18:41.We'll take a couple of points that, one in the front, and moved to the
:18:42. > :18:47.next question. Come up with this shadowy thing is if we're going to
:18:48. > :18:53.lose EU citizens from the NHS. Nobody has suggested that, ever. So
:18:54. > :18:58.you are just raising it as a thing that doesn't really exist. What do
:18:59. > :19:01.you think ending freedom of movement means then? It means people will
:19:02. > :19:05.have to apply and it means there will be equality with people coming
:19:06. > :19:09.from Europe or people coming from Africa or Australia, which there is
:19:10. > :19:13.not at the moment. The point is we are already finding it difficult to
:19:14. > :19:17.attract doctors. Do you think a message that says you are not
:19:18. > :19:23.welcome here will help doctors? Is no question of that. You've invented
:19:24. > :19:26.that. No, I'm sorry, I've spoken to people who have moved here from
:19:27. > :19:30.other European countries who are now going home. They are leaving here
:19:31. > :19:36.because they don't feel well come anymore. You have worried them. Oh,
:19:37. > :19:39.come on. The gentleman at the back and the lady, the gentleman in the
:19:40. > :19:48.yellow at the back. I'm a qualified doctor who has come over from -- I
:19:49. > :19:51.know a qualified doctor from Libya, he lectures at university and
:19:52. > :19:57.unfortunately hay are to work in McDonald's which there are rules
:19:58. > :20:02.that allow him to doctor in Libya, but not in Wales. There are willing
:20:03. > :20:10.-- there are people who are willing to help but there are rules. Amat
:20:11. > :20:13.Assyrian who had come here, a qualified doctor, not allowed to
:20:14. > :20:23.practice as a doctor because he was an asylum seeker. The gentleman. A
:20:24. > :20:27.surgery up the road was closed in 2315 because they couldn't get the
:20:28. > :20:32.doctors and the surgery I go to has taken 1000 patients on in the last
:20:33. > :20:39.12 months, because this place has closed. It's not sustainable. We've
:20:40. > :20:42.got to have doctors in our NHS. Thank you very much, we will move on
:20:43. > :20:49.to our next question. APPLAUSE
:20:50. > :20:55.Which comes to light from Sean. What will you do and your party to make
:20:56. > :20:59.Brexiter success? We've published a positive post-Brexit plan. I'm not
:21:00. > :21:03.going to pull the wool over your eyes, I was a Remainer and I
:21:04. > :21:08.campaigned for remain vote, but we accepted the results on the day that
:21:09. > :21:13.it was announced and we haven't gone back on that. We've worked quite
:21:14. > :21:17.hard to come up with a set of ideas and proposals to try and make sure
:21:18. > :21:21.that when we leave the European Union, Wales can make a success of
:21:22. > :21:26.it and find the opportunities. The key thing for us is jobs. There are
:21:27. > :21:33.200,000 jobs at the moment that are reliant upon tariff free access to
:21:34. > :21:37.the European Union. It is vital that we safeguard those jobs. But it's
:21:38. > :21:42.not just enough to defend what we've got in terms of jobs, we also have
:21:43. > :21:47.to create the conditions to have better employment. It's an absolute
:21:48. > :21:51.scandal that wages Wales are 10% behind the UK average. The jobs that
:21:52. > :21:57.we have here in the future have to be well paid jobs, but it's no good
:21:58. > :22:01.creating additional jobs, if we lose the jobs that we already have. So
:22:02. > :22:06.jobs and the economy is at the centre of our positive post-Brexit
:22:07. > :22:10.plan. There are opportunities potentially through procurement, for
:22:11. > :22:17.example. Plaid Cymru has talked quite a lot over many years about
:22:18. > :22:21.the benefits of spending public money, public contracts, on small,
:22:22. > :22:27.local firms in Wales, so that money is circulated in local economies.
:22:28. > :22:31.There have been some rules restricting public procurement
:22:32. > :22:36.happening at a local level through the European Union, so it may well
:22:37. > :22:40.be that in the future we have more opportunities to buy more local from
:22:41. > :22:46.the public purse. You sound pretty enthusiastic about Brexit now. Yes,
:22:47. > :22:51.there was a vote, but your MP still voted against Article 50, triggering
:22:52. > :22:56.the whole process. What has changed since February and made you now
:22:57. > :22:59.pro-Brexit? You were easy as did about the opportunities, which
:23:00. > :23:02.clearly you couldn't see a year ago. Well, the MPs voted against the
:23:03. > :23:06.triggering of Article 50 because they didn't want to give the Prime
:23:07. > :23:11.Minister a blank cheque. Now times have moved on. It's quite clear that
:23:12. > :23:14.at that point we were hoping that we could maintain a relationship with
:23:15. > :23:19.the single market. That's become less clear. Theresa May has been
:23:20. > :23:23.talking more about a hard Brexit. So things have moved on and it's pretty
:23:24. > :23:29.clear that is happening. It's definitely going to take place. So
:23:30. > :23:31.it's our job as the party of Wales to try and find whatever
:23:32. > :23:36.opportunities we can in this situation. I'm still in a position
:23:37. > :23:40.where I would have preferred to remain vote. But we are where we
:23:41. > :23:46.are. Let's go to the audience. Anyone else made that journey, who
:23:47. > :23:50.were in favour of remaining? Greenberg in the farmers' subsidies,
:23:51. > :23:56.where is it going to come from? It has to come from Westminster. That's
:23:57. > :24:01.a joke, will they do that? As it stands, no, they won't, but that's
:24:02. > :24:04.why we need a strong team of Plaid Cymru MPs elected. Since the
:24:05. > :24:09.referendum Wales has been largely ignored. Gibraltar has had more
:24:10. > :24:52.mentions than we have here. That situation will continue if we do
:24:53. > :24:56.what we have always done and continue to elect a number of Labour
:24:57. > :25:00.MPs. It's only by having strong Plaid Cymru MPs will have our voice
:25:01. > :25:03.heard. The Scots have a strong voice, what about Wales? Are we
:25:04. > :25:06.going to have a strong voice ourselves? You are talking about
:25:07. > :25:09.subsidies from Europe. Who we are looking at it from a Welsh
:25:10. > :25:14.perspective, it's not the case we get more back. We get more of a
:25:15. > :25:22.benefit. Then you are saying you don't trust the government. I don't.
:25:23. > :25:29.We have to trust the government. Not many people I know in Wales would
:25:30. > :25:33.trust the Tories. The gentleman on the end? We talk blog about farming
:25:34. > :25:38.subsidies, certainly, but once we the European Union knowing we only
:25:39. > :25:42.produce about 60% of our needs for food in the United Kingdom, surely
:25:43. > :25:46.there will be a new UK market for Welsh produce, Welsh lamb, and it's
:25:47. > :25:51.an opportunity to build and Wales within the United Kingdom. Great,
:25:52. > :25:55.it's a great opportunity. APPLAUSE
:25:56. > :25:59.. I've not seen any plans on the government that tells me that Welsh
:26:00. > :26:02.agriculture is a concern for them. They are more concerned about the
:26:03. > :26:06.City of London. They are not even thinking about the needs of Wales.
:26:07. > :26:15.That's what concerns me. Our final question for Leanne Wood this
:26:16. > :26:22.evening, from Tom. Would Plaid have a proportion of MPs, what impact can
:26:23. > :26:27.the party have in Westminster? The maximum number of MPs could be 40,
:26:28. > :26:30.if we had 40 MPs we would be an extremely strong voice for Wales.
:26:31. > :26:36.What's important to remember is that Westminster is made up of a majority
:26:37. > :26:41.of seats from England. 82% of all the seats there are from England. If
:26:42. > :26:46.you look at it from that perspective we are always going to be small. But
:26:47. > :26:53.if you look at the influence and the voice that Scotland has had since
:26:54. > :26:57.electing 50 odd MPs in 2015, then they've made sure that Scotland's
:26:58. > :26:59.needs are articulated and the Scottish national interest is on the
:27:00. > :27:05.agenda in Westminster. That's what we have to do as well. Your economy
:27:06. > :27:09.has macro economy spokesman has talked about eight seats. Is that
:27:10. > :27:15.what you're expecting? I haven't had a number on it. I'd like to have 40
:27:16. > :27:23.MPs, obviously. I'm not going to put a number on it. We are going all-out
:27:24. > :27:30.to win as many seats as we can. The more seats we have, the bigger voice
:27:31. > :27:36.Wales will have. If you make any gains and you return three, what is
:27:37. > :27:41.your future? I was elected as a long-term project to build up Wales
:27:42. > :27:46.and get us to the point where we can take decisions for ourselves and
:27:47. > :27:50.that project is still got a long way to go.
:27:51. > :27:55.APPLAUSE Very briefly, at the front.
:27:56. > :28:06.INAUDIBLE . Very quickly, wherein a last
:28:07. > :28:09.minute of the programme. Your approach to getting more young
:28:10. > :28:14.people involved and having their voices heard, we've got some young
:28:15. > :28:16.people from Bridgend here. What would the view of Plaid Cymru B of
:28:17. > :28:25.that? Decisions are being made about your
:28:26. > :28:29.future and you will be living longest with them. It is vital that
:28:30. > :28:33.young people get involved in politics. I would like them to have
:28:34. > :28:37.the vote at 16 but voting is not enough. We need to get involved,
:28:38. > :28:41.pressure politicians, write letters, get on the internet, use social
:28:42. > :28:48.media, do what you can to make your voice heard. It is really important.
:28:49. > :28:55.That was Leanne Wood. Thank you very much. Don't forget, you can join the
:28:56. > :29:01.debate. If you would like to leave the podium, that is it. You can
:29:02. > :29:08.debate tonight on social media. Tomorrow night we will be joined by
:29:09. > :29:12.the leader of the Labour Party in Wales, Carwyn Jones, and the leader
:29:13. > :29:16.of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, Mark Williams. But now, please welcome
:29:17. > :29:22.the leader of Ukip in the Welsh Assembly, Neil Hamilton.
:29:23. > :29:31.Our first question to Mr Hamilton tonight comes from Darren Thomas.
:29:32. > :29:36.Would a tougher immigration policy prevent another
:29:37. > :29:44.Well, no, a tougher immigration policy wouldn't necessarily prevent
:29:45. > :29:49.another terrorist attack, quite obviously, because this
:29:50. > :29:51.was one individual and no immigration policy is going to be
:29:52. > :29:54.able to keep out all terrorists, and this particular one anyway
:29:55. > :30:04.So terrorism is an issue which is only tangential to immigration.
:30:05. > :30:07.The immigration, the terrorism problem, will perhaps
:30:08. > :30:13.I mean, we've lived with it for 50 years.
:30:14. > :30:16.I was a minister in Northern Ireland in the 1990s, so I lived
:30:17. > :30:24.And this is a particular problem within the Muslim community,
:30:25. > :30:29.So whilst firm control of immigration is absolutely
:30:30. > :30:31.essential, for a variety of reasons, I don't think that the terrorist
:30:32. > :30:39.element of it is the principal reason for controlling it.
:30:40. > :30:42.What would you do to prevent attacks like this?
:30:43. > :30:48.You've mentioned them in your manifesto today.
:30:49. > :30:52.You're talking about 20,000 extra troops, you're talking about seven
:30:53. > :30:54.extra prison officers, four extra border guards.
:30:55. > :31:10.It is a lot of money, but we have the Brexit
:31:11. > :31:15.We have said that we will cut the foreign aid budget by 10 billion
:31:16. > :31:17.a year and devote that money to other causes within
:31:18. > :31:19.the UK, whether it's the health service or...
:31:20. > :31:21.Well, you've spent it on the NHS, haven't you?
:31:22. > :31:28.No, no, if you look at the Ukip manifesto,
:31:29. > :31:31.which you'll find on the web, you will see that all our spending
:31:32. > :31:33.promises are fully costed and justified in terms
:31:34. > :31:35.of the spending reductions which we are obtaining
:31:36. > :31:42.So our sums add up, unlike the sums of all the other parties.
:31:43. > :31:45.The Labour Party thinks that money grows on trees and you can just make
:31:46. > :31:48.spending promises without saying where the money comes from.
:31:49. > :31:51.The Tories are saying, oh, well, we don't need to balance the budget
:31:52. > :31:54.as quickly as we originally said, we can now push it up,
:31:55. > :31:57.not to the end of this Parliament, into the middle of the next
:31:58. > :32:02.So Ukip is the only party whose sums add up.
:32:03. > :32:07.Thank you, let's take a few points on terrorism and tackling terrorism.
:32:08. > :32:14.On security, do you think that more powers should be
:32:15. > :32:16.devolved to the police, military and security services
:32:17. > :32:23.Whereby a more enhanced stop and search policy or maybe searching
:32:24. > :32:25.of people's properties on a wider scale?
:32:26. > :32:28.We're not talking one house, maybe go to a crucial area that
:32:29. > :32:31.needs to be done and we search and clear those houses.
:32:32. > :32:33.Do you think that sort of anti-counter-terrorism would work?
:32:34. > :32:35.Well, I certainly think that the police's stop and search
:32:36. > :32:41.They've been very significantly cut back in recent years.
:32:42. > :32:46.We've got to have effective policing and we will never get on top
:32:47. > :32:51.of terrorism if we don't have effective policing.
:32:52. > :32:55.You've got to give the forces of law and order the tools to do the job.
:32:56. > :32:58.We can't just take the view that somehow or other this
:32:59. > :33:01.is going to evaporate for reasons beyond our control.
:33:02. > :33:05.Clearly, this is going to be a massive problem
:33:06. > :33:07.for the whole of western society for the indefinite future
:33:08. > :33:15.and we have to give the people who are tasked with the job
:33:16. > :33:18.of keeping us as safe as we possibly can be,
:33:19. > :33:20.we've got to give them the tools to do the job.
:33:21. > :33:24.The lady in the black and white at the front.
:33:25. > :33:27.Do you think it's about time that we were all treated the same,
:33:28. > :33:30.instead of we can't do that because we may upset their culture?
:33:31. > :33:32.If they do something wrong they should be punished
:33:33. > :33:37.You've got somebody putting a poppy on to a mosque, you get six months.
:33:38. > :33:39.You get somebody burning a poppy, he gets told off.
:33:40. > :33:46.Well, obviously everyone, everybody should be equal before
:33:47. > :33:49.the law and there shouldn't be any favouritism either for or against
:33:50. > :33:52.and people should be penalised for factors
:33:53. > :33:55.which are beyond their control, whether it's their race
:33:56. > :33:57.or religion or whatever, but also people
:33:58. > :34:02.I think there has grown up in recent years a culture
:34:03. > :34:05.of political correctness, which means there's certain things
:34:06. > :34:14.can't be fully discussed and I think part of the problem
:34:15. > :34:16.with Islamophobia today in Western society is the people feel that
:34:17. > :34:18.we've not been able honestly to discuss the problems
:34:19. > :34:23.that undoubtedly exist within the Muslim community.
:34:24. > :34:26.There is a strand of Islam which is extreme and fundamentalists,
:34:27. > :34:28.who don't believe that women have any place in society,
:34:29. > :34:32.for example, and, well, somebody says a 20%.
:34:33. > :34:35.It doesn't matter how tiny the percentage is,
:34:36. > :34:37.it clearly has a dramatic and disastrous effect.
:34:38. > :34:41.The views espoused by the person who was responsible
:34:42. > :34:48.for the disgraceful, disgusting outrage in Manchester
:34:49. > :34:52.a few days ago is somebody who believes in fundamentalist Islam
:34:53. > :34:54.and of course the overwhelming majority of Muslims are just
:34:55. > :34:59.as outraged by this as anybody else, but until we actually deal
:35:00. > :35:02.with the particular problems that exist within that religion and no
:35:03. > :35:05.other in Western society, let's be honest about this,
:35:06. > :35:07.it is solely within Islam, this is something which will never
:35:08. > :35:18.OK, others disagree about other religions, but there we go, let's
:35:19. > :35:21.It's not a problem within the Muslim community,
:35:22. > :35:32.A problem in Manchester, we had a vigil in Bridgend last
:35:33. > :35:37.We shouldn't tar them, every Muslim, with the same brush.
:35:38. > :35:47.Did I not say a moment ago that the overwhelming majority
:35:48. > :35:52.of Muslims are just as outraged by those events
:35:53. > :35:54.as we are ourselves, but when you look at
:35:55. > :35:56.all the suicide bombers in
:35:57. > :35:59.recent years, I mean, how many of them are not
:36:00. > :36:00.Islamists of an extreme and fundamentalist kind?
:36:01. > :36:07.Don't you think that antiterrorism needs to
:36:08. > :36:13.A lot of these people committing terrorism,
:36:14. > :36:15.unfortunately young men, are disillusioned and there have
:36:16. > :36:18.been people in Cardiff that have gone off to Syria and Libya.
:36:19. > :36:20.Schools are very reluctant to talk about terrorism.
:36:21. > :36:23.Is there anything we can do to get people into schools
:36:24. > :36:26.to educate people who may be vulnerable on social media and stuff
:36:27. > :36:29.This is nothing whatever to do with education.
:36:30. > :36:31.These are people who believe that God tells
:36:32. > :36:34.them they have to kill infidels, that is people who are not
:36:35. > :36:39.So they also blow up Muslims in other parts of
:36:40. > :36:42.the world too, deliberately, because they are different strand of that
:36:43. > :36:47.This is a religious problem and it has to be dealt with
:36:48. > :36:53.I'd just like to make the point that the
:36:54. > :36:56.thing that most terrorists have had in common in recent years, be they
:36:57. > :36:58.Muslim or Irish, is that they are all male,
:36:59. > :36:59.and I don't think that is
:37:00. > :37:03.You are saying that you are putting Muslims in one box, but
:37:04. > :37:05.you are not looking at the wider issue,
:37:06. > :37:06.that Irish terrorism and
:37:07. > :37:09.Do you think that all males should be
:37:10. > :37:11.stopped and searched, just like Muslims?
:37:12. > :37:17.The question was about the terrorism
:37:18. > :37:27.This is a particular problem which needs to be solved now.
:37:28. > :37:29.But it's a point of principle, isn't it?
:37:30. > :37:32.Are you particularly as a party tending to target the Muslim
:37:33. > :37:35.We are not targeting the Muslim community, but the
:37:36. > :37:37.problem exists only within the Muslim community.
:37:38. > :37:40.On the contrary, on the contrary, we are not
:37:41. > :37:48.This suicide bomber was a fundamentalist Muslim.
:37:49. > :37:49.All suicide bombers have been fundamentalist Muslims.
:37:50. > :37:57.We are targeting the root cause of the problem.
:37:58. > :38:00.I'm very far from saying that all Muslims believe in
:38:01. > :38:03.killing people for religious reasons.
:38:04. > :38:09.But if we try and pretend that this is
:38:10. > :38:11.not a problem within this particular religion,
:38:12. > :38:14.then I'm afraid we're never going to get to the root of
:38:15. > :38:30.Should immigrants to Wales adopt our culture and language, or
:38:31. > :38:33.should we accept that they want to keep their own?
:38:34. > :38:38.Well, I'm very much in favour of people who come to
:38:39. > :38:42.Wales learning the Welsh language and immersing themselves in the
:38:43. > :38:49.That applies as much to English people.
:38:50. > :38:52.Just to be clear, should that be compulsory then for
:38:53. > :38:55.immigrants coming into Wales, that they have to learn Welsh?
:38:56. > :38:57.No, of course it shouldn't be compulsory,
:38:58. > :39:01.but I'm saying this would be a desirable thing to happen.
:39:02. > :39:10.We now have a policy in schools that everybody has to learn Welsh up
:39:11. > :39:12.to the age of 16 and I think that is quite right.
:39:13. > :39:16.When I was in school, I had a choice when I was 14
:39:17. > :39:18.whether I wanted to continue to learn Welsh or learn
:39:19. > :39:28.So for me, it's now actually a source of regret that I didn't
:39:29. > :39:31.continue with my Welsh studies then, so I could make a passable speech
:39:32. > :39:36.You are getting to the principle of, if immigrants into England
:39:37. > :39:39.have to learn English, if you're moving into a community
:39:40. > :39:43.which is Welsh speaking, and jeopardising potentially
:39:44. > :39:45.the cohesion and culture of the community, should
:39:46. > :39:50.Is it the same principle, or do you see it as different?
:39:51. > :39:53.I don't think you can make it compulsory that I do think it's
:39:54. > :39:55.desirable to encourage people to learn the benefits
:39:56. > :40:01.You get so much more out of life if you do.
:40:02. > :40:08.Fortunately, in my lifetime, I have seen a recovery of interest
:40:09. > :40:10.in the Welsh language and support for the Welsh language.
:40:11. > :40:13.In the 1960s, it was going in the other direction.
:40:14. > :40:15.Now there is a cross-party consensus in the Senedd,
:40:16. > :40:19.that we do want to see a million Welsh speakers by 2050 if we can
:40:20. > :40:28.And we are providing the tools and the means of doing that.
:40:29. > :40:33.Just back to the question, were you getting at multiculturalism?
:40:34. > :40:36.You were mentioning maybe getting at the proposal to ban the niqab
:40:37. > :40:43.It's just for anybody, English, Scottish, from whatever country,
:40:44. > :40:46.we are a minority people in Wales and it's very important
:40:47. > :40:50.that we keep our culture and language going, isn't it?
:40:51. > :40:53.If we're going to have more immigration, there
:40:54. > :41:00.is the risk that it can be diminished, isn't it?
:41:01. > :41:04.If you meant the wider question of immigrants coming from different
:41:05. > :41:08.cultures outside the United Kingdom into it, particularly the problems
:41:09. > :41:10.of integration that we see in other parts of the United Kingdom,
:41:11. > :41:13.then I think it is of vital importance that we get
:41:14. > :41:25.It's an unfortunate feature of the Muslim community
:41:26. > :41:27.that there are a very substantial proportion of Muslim woman,
:41:28. > :41:29.towards a quarter, who have very little command of English
:41:30. > :41:33.And we will never get proper integration unless we do something
:41:34. > :41:38.The lady in the red, first, followed by the lady
:41:39. > :41:44.That must be me, then, who can't speak English.
:41:45. > :41:47.I've been to school, been to college, got a degree.
:41:48. > :41:53.I do speak very well English, thank you very much.
:41:54. > :41:59.I don't understand the point you are making.
:42:00. > :42:02.I said that academic studies tell us that about a quarter of Muslim women
:42:03. > :42:06.do not have good language skills in English.
:42:07. > :42:09.And I'm saying it would be better for integration if this
:42:10. > :42:26.OK, let's take the lady in the back in the black and white, please.
:42:27. > :42:28.I'm the proud daughter of a Welsh immigrant.
:42:29. > :42:30.My Welsh immigrant grandmother never learned to speak
:42:31. > :42:33.English very well, but she was very proud of being in Wales.
:42:34. > :42:36.She didn't believe it was just defined
:42:37. > :42:39.That's true, it isn't just defined by language, you're
:42:40. > :42:43.But I do think the language is a very important part of
:42:44. > :42:50.Wales' history and culture and languages should be nurtured.
:42:51. > :42:53.I think the literature and poetry of Wales is very significant.
:42:54. > :42:55.The point I wanted to make is there is a
:42:56. > :42:57.very long tradition of immigrants to Wales.
:42:58. > :43:06.And many of us here are the children of
:43:07. > :43:07.immigrants to Wales Irish, Spanish, Welsh.
:43:08. > :43:17.The lady in the back there, thank you.
:43:18. > :43:21.You think of the Italian cafes, but under Labour, immigration just
:43:22. > :43:39.A point here, the gentleman in the jacket.
:43:40. > :43:41.What do you suggest we do to encourage more
:43:42. > :43:43.integration then, because you say a quarter of Muslim women
:43:44. > :43:48.Well, it's a very difficult problem to solve, you can't compel people to
:43:49. > :43:52.do what they don't want to do and if there are male dominated
:43:53. > :43:58.societies that isolate themselves within our
:43:59. > :44:00.own wider culture it's going to be very difficult.
:44:01. > :44:02.Obviously over time I imagine there will be greater
:44:03. > :44:04.integration, but we need to have a much greater
:44:05. > :44:08.I think it's got to come from within the Muslim community itself.
:44:09. > :44:16.Mr Hamilton, if I can just interrupt you, because...
:44:17. > :44:19.Part of the silver lining of outrages like the one we
:44:20. > :44:22.had in Manchester this week is that the obvious sense of outrage
:44:23. > :44:23.that the Muslim community by and large
:44:24. > :44:26.feels itself will lead to a further desire to try and improve
:44:27. > :44:29.You just said, Mr Hamilton, you can't force
:44:30. > :44:37.people to do what they don't want to do.
:44:38. > :44:42.Your party wants to force Muslim women, who want to wear the niqab,
:44:43. > :44:44.who want to wear the hijab, from doing so.
:44:45. > :44:47.Well, this is true, you can force people to change the
:44:48. > :44:50.But that's exactly what you're doing, you are
:44:51. > :44:52.forcing them to do something they don't want to.
:44:53. > :44:54.That is only a very small part of the problem.
:44:55. > :44:56.The veil actually is a barrier not just to
:44:57. > :44:58.integration, but also to treating women, I think,
:44:59. > :45:00.in a way which frees them from the confines
:45:01. > :45:02.of what I personally regard as anachronistic views
:45:03. > :45:18.have you done any kind of survey with the Muslim women who apparently
:45:19. > :45:24.I think that was very presumptuous, you
:45:25. > :45:26.paint this group of women in a bad light.
:45:27. > :45:30.The second point is it's just as bad for
:45:31. > :45:33.a garment to be forced on a woman as it is for one to be forced off.
:45:34. > :45:39.We have rules about dress which are enforced by law.
:45:40. > :45:42.We can't simply strip off all our clothes and walk
:45:43. > :45:47.Sorry, Mr Hamilton, can we take one from the
:45:48. > :45:51.I'm not going to respond to your point about what I
:45:52. > :45:57.should or shouldn't wear, because I don't think
:45:58. > :46:01.you deserve it really, but I just wanted to say...
:46:02. > :46:04.Now that we are leaving the European Union...
:46:05. > :46:07.Now that we are leaving the European Union and Ukip
:46:08. > :46:10.have fulfilled their only goal, do you think your party has focused on
:46:11. > :46:13.targeting the Muslim community to keep yourselves relevant and keep
:46:14. > :46:19.I'll repeat what I said to you earlier on.
:46:20. > :46:20.We are not targeting the Muslim community.
:46:21. > :46:23.All we've heard this evening is about Muslims.
:46:24. > :46:31.I haven't come here to make a speech about Islam, I've come here to
:46:32. > :46:37.respond to your questions and I'm giving you honest answers.
:46:38. > :46:38.That's something I think we should welcome.
:46:39. > :46:41.Leaving the EU isn't our only policy.
:46:42. > :46:45.Our manifesto today, which has a range of policies
:46:46. > :46:48.throughout the whole breadth and length of the issues which have
:46:49. > :46:52.You say you will provide honest answers.
:46:53. > :46:56.Let's get our next question, which tonight comes from Steve Bray.
:46:57. > :47:00.How can a referendum based on lies and
:47:01. > :47:04.exaggerations be a clear mandate to leave the EU?
:47:05. > :47:13.Even Farage said if it was 52-48, he wanted another
:47:14. > :47:20.I take it you are a Remainer, possibly.
:47:21. > :47:25.And I'm sure you'll find people on the other side
:47:26. > :47:27.of the argument who will say your side of the campaign
:47:28. > :47:41.I think this is not the way in which... So you did tell lies? No,
:47:42. > :47:46.I'm not. You just said, tell lies as well. I said you will find both
:47:47. > :47:51.sides of the argument, people will sell they were telling lies. Sorry?
:47:52. > :47:56.I did not say... Excuse me, excuse me, you are misrepresenting my view.
:47:57. > :48:00.I did not say, I did not say and I want to say this clearly to you, as
:48:01. > :48:04.an impartial presenter this evening, I did not say that those who are on
:48:05. > :48:09.the other side of the argument were necessarily telling lies. Some did,
:48:10. > :48:14.some didn't. Your lies divided the nation. I resent this. I didn't tell
:48:15. > :48:20.lies in the referendum campaign. Your party's lies have divided the
:48:21. > :48:26.nation. Nor did my party tell lies. The trouble with people like you is
:48:27. > :48:27.you can't accept the result of a democratic vote.
:48:28. > :48:38.APPLAUSE OK, thank you very much. Thank you.
:48:39. > :48:48.BOOING. Thank you very much, thank you, sir. OK. Thank you very much.
:48:49. > :48:53.Enjoy. Thank you. Your next contribution. I know what I shall do
:48:54. > :48:58.with it. Mr Hamilton, the words on the bus, the ?350 million a week for
:48:59. > :49:01.the health service, do you stand by that figure? I didn't put those
:49:02. > :49:07.words on that particular buzz, but it's possible to spend an extra ?350
:49:08. > :49:10.million on the health service. It's up to the British government. The
:49:11. > :49:16.people you elect and can dismiss if you don't like the decisions they
:49:17. > :49:20.take, this Brexit dividend of ?18 billion a year is available now to
:49:21. > :49:24.your elected politicians to decide what to do with. Not unelected
:49:25. > :49:29.people in Brussels, whom you can't even name, let alone vote for or
:49:30. > :49:36.dismiss. The European Commission... The European Commission... Let him
:49:37. > :49:38.answer. The European Commission are 28 appointed technocrats, who when
:49:39. > :49:42.they get to Brussels have to renounce any national interest. They
:49:43. > :49:47.are not voted for by a single person in the EU. They are appointees. You
:49:48. > :49:49.can't dismiss them. You can't have any effective complaint against
:49:50. > :49:55.their decisions. APPLAUSE
:49:56. > :49:58.I'm amazed that the Remainers are so careless of the democratic rights
:49:59. > :50:02.which our people have fought and died for over the last few hundred
:50:03. > :50:06.years. Concentrating on what's going on in the future now. It's been
:50:07. > :50:11.cast, the vote has been cast. More young people in Wales voted to leave
:50:12. > :50:14.the EU than in most of the parts of the country. It's about time we
:50:15. > :50:19.forgot about this and moved on with the business in hand. Especially
:50:20. > :50:23.when we've got so much in hand that we need to deal with and we need to
:50:24. > :50:28.concentrate on. There's no time to talk about any of this anymore. We
:50:29. > :50:34.need to move on. Thank you very much. The gentleman there and the
:50:35. > :50:41.lady. With no respect -- disrespect to the lady over there, I'm married
:50:42. > :50:44.to an ethnic, but I hope it never happens, but I hope we never see
:50:45. > :50:51.somebody coming out in the street with a burka and a man underneath
:50:52. > :50:56.it. OK, let's move on to the lady in the spots, please. Thank you, Mr
:50:57. > :51:00.Hamilton just stated we Remainers, I know I'm a Remainer, are not
:51:01. > :51:05.accepting the result of the referendum. I didn't say that. Nigel
:51:06. > :51:11.Farage said before the referendum that unless there was a 75% turnout
:51:12. > :51:18.and 60% of those people voted to remain, he would not accept the
:51:19. > :51:23.result of the referendum and would push for another referendum. Was he
:51:24. > :51:28.right? No, he wasn't right. Next question. The gentleman here and
:51:29. > :51:32.there. We were when you've talked about democracy and the democratic
:51:33. > :51:36.process. You've been routed in every election in the last couple of years
:51:37. > :51:44.and you will be in this one. What will be your next party? Where will
:51:45. > :51:50.you be next year? Can I answer that. You've spoken about the dividend.
:51:51. > :51:54.Where is this dividend come from? Where is the income coming from?
:51:55. > :51:57.There's nothing guaranteed. There's no money guaranteed. You are
:51:58. > :52:01.spending hundreds of billions of pounds. You've been announcing
:52:02. > :52:05.spending hundreds of billions of pounds, but you've got no guarantee
:52:06. > :52:15.of a single penny coming in after Brexit. Well, we pay... West the
:52:16. > :52:22.money coming from? British taxpayers up the money, 18 billion a year...
:52:23. > :52:30.Can I answer? Please let him answer. British taxpayers the European Union
:52:31. > :52:35.18 billion a year of our money for the European Union commissioners to
:52:36. > :52:42.dispense -- to decide how to spend. 8 billion of that is spent European
:52:43. > :52:45.farmers, for example, outside of the United Kingdom. 10 billion comes
:52:46. > :52:47.back in one shape or form but your politicians here do not decide on
:52:48. > :52:52.the priorities for that spending. After we leave, the whole of that
:52:53. > :52:57.?18 billion is available to the British government to decide how to
:52:58. > :53:01.spend. I have said that every single penny... We won't have any income.
:53:02. > :53:05.People won't be paying income tax because they will be out of work.
:53:06. > :53:14.This is nonsense. Where are the markets? You are confusing to
:53:15. > :53:18.issues. We haven't got any. Britain is the fifth-largest economy in
:53:19. > :53:23.world. At the moment it is, because we're in the European Union! The
:53:24. > :53:29.fifth largest economy in the world and 7% only of our GDP, 7% of our
:53:30. > :53:33.GDP, is accounted for by exports to the European Union. We're not going
:53:34. > :53:48.to build a wall... 60% of the jobs... Do you want, peer? -- do you
:53:49. > :53:52.want to come up here? As I said... Very briefly. The British economy is
:53:53. > :54:01.the fifth largest in the world. Only 7% of our national income is...
:54:02. > :54:07.Thank you very much. Shall we take a vote in the audience? One point. I'm
:54:08. > :54:13.a law student and I'm not hearing much mention of anything to do with
:54:14. > :54:20.this money we are getting back to do with tuition fees. Where do UKIP
:54:21. > :54:22.stand on that? As a devolved issue. It's a devolved issue but UKIP
:54:23. > :54:25.believes tuition fees should be remitted for those studying science,
:54:26. > :54:30.technology and medicine and our aim would be over the period of
:54:31. > :54:35.Parliament or more, if economic Dec circumstances permit that, to extend
:54:36. > :54:39.it to all students. Our last question, from Vincent Cawthorne.
:54:40. > :54:46.We've been good evening, Neil. My question is very brief. A precis of
:54:47. > :54:51.what I submitted earlier. UKIP appears unfortunately to be have
:54:52. > :54:56.become the United Kingdom Irrelevance Party. Can you please
:54:57. > :55:01.explain how UKIP is going to be able to cope and move forwards without
:55:02. > :55:05.Nigel Farage? Well, that's a separate issue again. In policy
:55:06. > :55:12.terms, of course we have a perfectly good leader in Paul Nuttall, but
:55:13. > :55:15.what matters, what matters what role does UKIP having a post-Brexit
:55:16. > :55:22.Britain? UKIP's achievement in getting Britain out of the EU is
:55:23. > :55:25.extraordinary, considering that we never even elected an MP to
:55:26. > :55:28.Westminster before the referendum and the Tories would never have
:55:29. > :55:31.granted a referendum in the first place but for UKIP breathing down
:55:32. > :55:35.their necks. UKIP has been absolutely pivotal in securing a
:55:36. > :55:41.vote to leave the EU. If we can do that without any MPs, think what we
:55:42. > :55:45.could do with MPs. You no longer have MPs. You've lost 145
:55:46. > :55:50.councillors in the local elections recently. No councillors in Wales.
:55:51. > :55:53.The show is over now for UKIP, isn't it? It certainly isn't.
:55:54. > :55:59.APPLAUSE We have members in the National
:56:00. > :56:02.Assembly of Wales, in Cardiff, and we are on our feet every single day
:56:03. > :56:06.when its meeting, participating in the debates and all the things that
:56:07. > :56:10.matter to the people of Wales. In this UK election, which doesn't
:56:11. > :56:13.principally concerned devolved issues of course, we have policies
:56:14. > :56:19.that none of the other parties will espouse, like putting an extra 10
:56:20. > :56:23.billion into the health service from cuts to overseas aid, getting rid of
:56:24. > :56:29.Reims taxes to reduce everybody's electricity bills by scrapping
:56:30. > :56:36.subsidies on windmills and so many other policies. Do you miss Nigel
:56:37. > :56:39.Farage? I do miss Nigel Farage. Like him or loathe him, there's no
:56:40. > :56:43.politician who has had a big impact on the British process in the
:56:44. > :56:48.last... Neil Hamilton, thank you very much and our audience here,
:56:49. > :56:52.that's it tonight. Thank you to Leanne Wood. Join us again tomorrow,
:56:53. > :56:57.when we'll hear from Labour and the Liberal Democrats. From all of us
:56:58. > :57:02.here, nos da, good night. APPLAUSE
:57:03. > :57:12.When it came to my TV habits, I'd watch anything.
:57:13. > :57:18.But now I can sign in online and get more of what I love.