Live With Mishal Husain

:00:00. > :00:00.Eight days remain before we, the electorate, make our choice,

:00:07. > :00:09.and tonight, representatives of seven parties are here

:00:10. > :00:12.to make their pitch to our audience here, and to you at home.

:00:13. > :00:54.Welcome to the BBC Election Debate 2017.

:00:55. > :00:59.Good evening and welcome to Senate House at the University

:01:00. > :01:06.of Cambridge for 90 minutes of question, answer and live debate.

:01:07. > :01:14.We invited the leaders of seven parties to take part, some are here,

:01:15. > :01:15.others chose to send senior representatives. Those are here

:01:16. > :01:17.are... Tim Farron, leader of

:01:18. > :01:19.the Liberal Democrats. Jeremy Corbyn, leader

:01:20. > :01:20.of the Labour Party. Caroline Lucas, co-leader

:01:21. > :01:22.of the Green Party. The leader of Plaid

:01:23. > :01:30.Cymru, Leanne Wood. For the Conservatives,

:01:31. > :01:32.the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd. And Angus Robertson,

:01:33. > :01:36.the deputy leader of the SNP. Our audience was selected

:01:37. > :01:48.by a leading opinion polling company to ensure they are representative

:01:49. > :01:52.of the country as whole. They support different parties,

:01:53. > :01:55.some are undecided voters, and they are also equally split

:01:56. > :01:58.along the lines of last year's EU referendum -

:01:59. > :02:01.half voted to leave the EU And if you'd like to join

:02:02. > :02:05.in the debate at home, you can do so on Twitter

:02:06. > :02:12.using the hashtag #BBCdebate. We start with opening statements

:02:13. > :02:14.from all seven politicians, the order of which was decided

:02:15. > :02:18.by the drawing of lots. First, the leader of

:02:19. > :02:22.Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. Theresa May called this

:02:23. > :02:24.election because she's She won't turn up to these debates,

:02:25. > :02:30.because her campaign Unlike Theresa May, I am not afraid

:02:31. > :02:36.to defend my policies, Plaid Cymru exists to defend

:02:37. > :02:44.and build up our country. In Wales, it is Plaid Cymru that

:02:45. > :02:46.stands for fairness and equality for everyone who chooses to call

:02:47. > :02:52.Wales home. For a hundred years,

:02:53. > :02:55.Wales has voted Labour. Labour in Wales have their own

:02:56. > :03:01.manifesto and are airbrushing When Plaid Cymru has tried to ban

:03:02. > :03:07.zero-hours contracts, and to stop the bedroom tax,

:03:08. > :03:10.Welsh Labour has voted against us. It's time we stopped doing

:03:11. > :03:13.what we have always done. Elect a strong team

:03:14. > :03:23.of Plaid Cymru MPs to fight Caroline Lucas for the

:03:24. > :03:33.Green Party is next. On June 8th you can

:03:34. > :03:36.lay the foundations Imagine this - a country that leads

:03:37. > :03:46.the world in clean energy, A country that spends its money

:03:47. > :03:51.on hospitals and schools, A country that welcomes child

:03:52. > :03:57.refugees, not blocks A country that's open

:03:58. > :04:02.to its neighbours, not A country that celebrates

:04:03. > :04:09.diversity, not fears it. A country that's friends

:04:10. > :04:11.with the good guys, not the climate A country that cares

:04:12. > :04:16.for those with dementia, We've shown time and again,

:04:17. > :04:24.you don't need the keys to Number 10 On June 8th let's unlock

:04:25. > :04:29.that door together. Fearless Green MPs in

:04:30. > :04:31.opposition to the Tories. Independent Green MPs holding

:04:32. > :04:34.Labour's feet to the fire. Pioneering Green MPs to make our

:04:35. > :04:37.economy fit for tomorrow. We decide the future

:04:38. > :04:41.by what we do now. In eight days you have a vital

:04:42. > :05:00.choice to make about who you want Do you want Theresa May and her

:05:01. > :05:07.team, a team that has a plan? It is one that doesn't

:05:08. > :05:09.duck the hard choices But it is also a plan that

:05:10. > :05:13.will build on the success Success in cutting the deficit,

:05:14. > :05:16.stabilising the economy, It will build on our commitment

:05:17. > :05:22.to having a country There are seven of us here tonight,

:05:23. > :05:29.and I am sure you will hear plenty of bluff, bravado and tempting,

:05:30. > :05:32.shiny election promises. But the only question

:05:33. > :05:36.to consider is who should be in Number 10 to steer Britain

:05:37. > :05:41.to a brighter future? Jeremy Corbyn, with his money-tree

:05:42. > :05:43.wish list manifesto Or Theresa May, and her record

:05:44. > :05:50.of delivery, with her clear plan for Brexit, and the strong team

:05:51. > :05:54.behind her who can make sure the country gets

:05:55. > :06:01.to that brighter future. Tonight I'm here to debate

:06:02. > :06:06.the future of our country. The question in this election

:06:07. > :06:08.is whether we want a country The state of our NHS,

:06:09. > :06:14.our children's schools, social care for older people,

:06:15. > :06:16.our young people saddled with debt, none of that is

:06:17. > :06:22.remotely strong or stable. And now the Conservatives want five

:06:23. > :06:25.more years of cuts to our vital public services to fund tax

:06:26. > :06:28.hand-outs for the wealthy few. Labour will make very

:06:29. > :06:32.different choices. There will be no tax rises

:06:33. > :06:36.for 95% of taxpayers. But we will ask those with the most

:06:37. > :06:39.to contribute a bit more so no one is held back

:06:40. > :06:43.from achieving their potential. On June 8th you have a choice -

:06:44. > :06:48.more cuts in services and living standards with the Conservatives,

:06:49. > :06:50.or vote Labour to transform Britain Ukip will always put the interests

:06:51. > :06:59.of British people first. Whether that is prioritising our NHS

:07:00. > :07:04.and social care over a bloated and ineffective foreign aid

:07:05. > :07:07.programme, or protecting those who are most at risk

:07:08. > :07:11.from wage compression because of mass

:07:12. > :07:14.unskilled immigration. Ukip will always stand up for those

:07:15. > :07:18.who have been let down and left A government's job,

:07:19. > :07:21.first and foremost, Our police, our intelligence

:07:22. > :07:27.services, our armed forces and our border force must be given

:07:28. > :07:31.the tools and resources they need They must, without fear or favour,

:07:32. > :07:43.ensure that our way of life, our I believe in our great country,

:07:44. > :07:50.I believe in British values As you will see tonight,

:07:51. > :07:57.Ukip believes in Britain. The deputy leader of

:07:58. > :08:00.the SNP, Angus Robertson. This election is about the kind

:08:01. > :08:03.of country we want to be. Now, more than ever,

:08:04. > :08:05.Scotland needs strong SNP And SNP MPs will work

:08:06. > :08:11.with others to promote fairness A vote for the SNP is a vote

:08:12. > :08:18.against Tory cuts that will harm our public services

:08:19. > :08:21.and push many more hard-working It's a vote for jobs

:08:22. > :08:26.and against an extreme Brexit which will put jobs and living

:08:27. > :08:29.standards at risk. It's a vote to reinforce the right

:08:30. > :08:32.of the people of Scotland We can't afford a Tory government

:08:33. > :08:39.which thinks it can do anything it And we can't give Theresa May

:08:40. > :08:44.a blank cheque to pursue any kind In Scotland the SNP is the only

:08:45. > :08:49.party strong enough Vote SNP for a strong voice

:08:50. > :08:56.for Scotland at Westminster. That voice is needed

:08:57. > :08:59.now more than ever. And finally for our opening

:09:00. > :09:01.statements, the leader of the Liberal Democrats,

:09:02. > :09:05.Tim Farron. Where do you think

:09:06. > :09:07.Theresa May is tonight? She might be out there sizing

:09:08. > :09:12.up your house to pay And why do you think

:09:13. > :09:16.she called this election? She wants five years

:09:17. > :09:18.as Prime Minister and she thinks you'll give it to her,

:09:19. > :09:23.no questions asked. Even if she brings in a dementia

:09:24. > :09:26.tax, sacks your kids' teachers and nicks their lunches

:09:27. > :09:29.while she's at it. We can all agree that's

:09:30. > :09:32.a rubbish offer. Look, I know we don't

:09:33. > :09:36.all agree on Brexit, but she's off to negotiate a deal

:09:37. > :09:40.for you, for me, for all of us. Imagine if it's a bad deal,

:09:41. > :09:45.I mean dementia tax bad. I know that to persuade you to vote

:09:46. > :09:48.Liberal Democrat I have to give I'll rescue the NHS and social care

:09:49. > :09:55.by putting a penny on income tax. I'll give you the final say

:09:56. > :09:59.on the Brexit deal, not Theresa May. Whatever power you give me,

:10:00. > :10:03.I'll use it to stop her Thank you all for those opening

:10:04. > :10:27.statements. APPLAUSE Let's go straight to our first

:10:28. > :10:31.question and it comes from Nicola. I work, I paid my taxes, I have not

:10:32. > :10:36.had a pay rise in years, I lived alone and see all my bills going up.

:10:37. > :10:41.Working people are the backbone of this country. How you going to help

:10:42. > :10:48.people like me? Thank you, Nicola. Amber Rudd, your party has decided

:10:49. > :10:53.over recent living standards. Thank you for the question. My party has

:10:54. > :10:58.presided over making sure that people on lower wages are able to

:10:59. > :11:04.keep more of the wages they earn, must take it within context, since

:11:05. > :11:09.2009 we had one of the largest peacetime recessions and we have

:11:10. > :11:13.managed to rebuild the economy since then but my party is focused on

:11:14. > :11:17.making sure we help people like Nicola which is why we will continue

:11:18. > :11:22.to take people out of taxes, making sure the amount you earn above all

:11:23. > :11:27.you have to pay tax rises to ?12,500. And we are going to live

:11:28. > :11:31.within our means. Some of the offers you will hear tonight are fanciful.

:11:32. > :11:35.In order to have a strong economy to support Nicola and others we have to

:11:36. > :11:40.have that strong economy and the way to make sure we have it is to have a

:11:41. > :11:45.strong negotiating position as we go into leaving the European Union. You

:11:46. > :11:48.will hear me say that a lot tonight because the worst outcome would be

:11:49. > :11:54.if we are not able to negotiate a strong deal. The question is on

:11:55. > :11:58.living standards, Jeremy Corbyn. Living standards have fallen in the

:11:59. > :12:00.past seven years under the coalition government with the Liberal

:12:01. > :12:05.Democrats and Tories and now the Tory government itself. 6 million

:12:06. > :12:08.people are earning less than a living wage, a million are on zero

:12:09. > :12:12.hours contracts, public sector workers have had a pay cut of at

:12:13. > :12:17.least 14% over the past seven years. We will lift the pay gap on the

:12:18. > :12:23.public sector can introduce a living wage of ?10 per hour by 2020 and we

:12:24. > :12:26.will not punish workers who want to take their rights to a tribunal

:12:27. > :12:30.where they have to pay charges and fees. We will abolish that. Our

:12:31. > :12:35.determination is that those who produce the wealth of this country

:12:36. > :12:38.should benefit from it. What we have seen is a massive gap growing

:12:39. > :12:47.between those who work and those at the top and it is time to cut the

:12:48. > :12:51.gap. That has to change and we will ensure it does. Angus Robertson, how

:12:52. > :12:55.would you help working people? The first thing I would say is that

:12:56. > :12:58.governments have choices about the kind of economic policy they pursue

:12:59. > :13:01.Andy Drury is now alone in government and previously with the

:13:02. > :13:07.Liberal Democrats -- and the Tories now alone in the as there is the

:13:08. > :13:12.measures which it those were the lowest income is the most and the

:13:13. > :13:16.time has come for that to end. Politicians can make different

:13:17. > :13:20.choices and every SNP MP elected to Westminster will stand up for those

:13:21. > :13:26.different choices and an end to austerity. It is about choices, the

:13:27. > :13:29.Tories have chosen to support those who are wealthiest in society and we

:13:30. > :13:33.don't agree. We think those who have the most should pay a bit more and

:13:34. > :13:41.that is why we are in favour of the highest earners seeing their taxes

:13:42. > :13:44.rising from 45 to 50p. We are also supportive of looking at changes to

:13:45. > :13:48.the pay restraint we have seen in these times of austerity. That will

:13:49. > :13:52.happen in Scotland under an SNP government and we will present the

:13:53. > :13:58.UK Government to do the same. Lastly I want to make this point, some of

:13:59. > :14:02.those people on the lowest incomes have been massively hit by welfare

:14:03. > :14:11.cuts. I think the time has come to end punishing disabled people, end

:14:12. > :14:15.bedroom tax... APPLAUSE And leaving people with the lowest

:14:16. > :14:21.incomes with too little to pay for the essentials. Before we move on,

:14:22. > :14:25.what Amber Rudd to respond. On the direct point of payments to help

:14:26. > :14:29.people who are disabled, we are a party who will always support those

:14:30. > :14:33.in most need and the welfare bill for helping people with his

:14:34. > :14:38.abilities have gone up 7 billion in the past seven years and is now at

:14:39. > :14:42.50 billion. We will always provide a safety net where needed. You try to

:14:43. > :14:45.take personal people payment away from people with disabilities and

:14:46. > :14:58.entered yourself around on that. You are not credible on the issue. There

:14:59. > :15:01.is no extra payment you don't want to add to the no tax you don't want

:15:02. > :15:04.to rise but the fact is we have to concentrate our resources on the

:15:05. > :15:07.people who need it most and we had to stop thinking, as you do, that

:15:08. > :15:09.there is a money tree. You have to be accountable. I would like to

:15:10. > :15:12.bring in some of the other parties, Tim Farron, you have argued for this

:15:13. > :15:14.election being about providing a credible opposition, which of these

:15:15. > :15:18.parties has the right economic formula for living standards? Down

:15:19. > :15:23.to the question, economical is about people, not figures, it is about the

:15:24. > :15:24.experience of people and now they can't afford to feed their children

:15:25. > :15:37.and look after them. Economics is about people, it is not

:15:38. > :15:44.about figures. Like many people come I have known in my life what it is

:15:45. > :15:49.like not to be able to pay for bills and it matters to me that we build a

:15:50. > :15:55.country which looks after our children. A strong welfare state is

:15:56. > :16:02.essential. I have been helping two people in my constituency with their

:16:03. > :16:06.payments in the last month. Both of them were chief executive is of

:16:07. > :16:09.different companies in the not too distant past. Everybody needs to

:16:10. > :16:14.remember that everyone of us is only one or two steps from being in need

:16:15. > :16:18.at any given time. And just to answer the question specifically,

:16:19. > :16:45.what will we do? We will end the benefit freeze. Since 2008, the

:16:46. > :17:01.crash public sector workers have probably had to bear the brunt of

:17:02. > :17:06.those cuts, whether it be nurses, doctors, social care workers. But

:17:07. > :17:14.you also need to be able to support people, so they can have the ability

:17:15. > :17:25.to choose, and that is why we will invest that money, pretty much 6

:17:26. > :17:28.billion, into childcare for the under two-year-olds, to make sure

:17:29. > :17:32.parents have got the ability to go out to work. I am going to stop you

:17:33. > :17:35.come Tim Farron, Caroline Lucas? I want to come back to Nicola's point,

:17:36. > :17:38.because I think the situation you describe is something which people

:17:39. > :17:42.feel up and down this country. For people to say that Discover and

:17:43. > :17:47.cares for the most vulnerable people I think is downright insulting. I

:17:48. > :17:50.have had angry letters from a man who cannot get into the surgery

:17:51. > :17:53.because he has not got his mobility scooter and he has not headed for

:17:54. > :17:56.six weeks because the DLA payment has been delayed. He is just stuck.

:17:57. > :17:58.I think there is just simply not a recognition from this government

:17:59. > :18:01.about the pain that it is inflicting on some of the most vulnerable

:18:02. > :18:04.people in our society. And it is a matter of political choices, because

:18:05. > :18:08.we are the fifth biggest economy in the world. And yet we are a country

:18:09. > :18:11.that has 4 million children living in poverty, we are a country where a

:18:12. > :18:13.million food parcels were given out last year. That is just simply quite

:18:14. > :18:15.wrong. The Green Party is quite upfront about saying that we will

:18:16. > :18:18.reverse the changes in corporation tax, which have allowed Theresa May

:18:19. > :18:21.to come up with this vision of the country as some kind of bargain

:18:22. > :18:23.basement tax Haven. What about the just about managings? I would add to

:18:24. > :18:26.that a long list of criticisms, that there are now 800,000 fewer workless

:18:27. > :18:29.households. We have focused on making sure that people can get into

:18:30. > :18:31.work. But people are going to food banks. We need to have a system...

:18:32. > :18:35.You cannot ignore the fact that over the past seven years, another 3

:18:36. > :18:39.million people have got into jobs. You attacked the reductions in

:18:40. > :18:42.corporation tax, you talk about corporations, I talk about jobs.

:18:43. > :18:45.What we need to have is the investment to make sure that people

:18:46. > :18:54.can get those jobs, so that they can have the dignity of a job, so they

:18:55. > :18:58.can feed their family and work. Two people have not spoken yet. Leanne

:18:59. > :19:02.Wood, and then Paul Nuttall. I would like to know what kind of jobs these

:19:03. > :19:05.extra people are in. We know that the number of people on zero-hours

:19:06. > :19:10.contracts has gone through the roof. My party has tried in Wales on seven

:19:11. > :19:14.different occasions to abolish zero-hours contracts, only to be

:19:15. > :19:19.voted down by the Labour government in Wales. It is a scandal that those

:19:20. > :19:25.people, especially in the public sector, who are on the highest

:19:26. > :19:27.wages, get pay increases, politicians have had Pete increases,

:19:28. > :19:32.yet those at the bottom have been squeezed. And it's immigrants, then,

:19:33. > :19:37.who are scapegoated and blamed for those wages being squeezed, when it

:19:38. > :19:43.is Tory austerity that is the real cause of that problem. Paul Nuttall?

:19:44. > :19:47.Well, wages have stagnated over the past ten years, there's a number of

:19:48. > :19:51.reasons for that. Firstly there was the economic crash, secondly we had

:19:52. > :19:54.an oversupply of Labour. And that is certainly the case in working class

:19:55. > :19:59.communities, the Bank of England have admitted that this is the case.

:20:00. > :20:02.What we need is to put more money in people's pockets, and you don't do

:20:03. > :20:07.that through the politics of jealousy or spite. What we need to

:20:08. > :20:13.do is to reduce taxation. We proposed that we would scrap the 18

:20:14. > :20:18.on fuel bills and do away with Green levels levies which will put ?170

:20:19. > :20:24.back in your pockets per annum. We would also raise the personal

:20:25. > :20:27.allowance to ?13,500, because we believe that people know how to

:20:28. > :20:32.spend their money better than any government. As for corporation tax,

:20:33. > :20:36.we want to see corporation tax reduced, not raised, because if we

:20:37. > :20:41.raise it, companies will leave this country. If they leave this country,

:20:42. > :20:44.what happens then? There's less jobs, less taxation, and people are

:20:45. > :20:50.out of work. They're starting to leave because of Brexit. Politics of

:20:51. > :20:57.jealousy does not work. Jeremy Corbyn, I would like you to respond

:20:58. > :21:04.to the point about corporation tax? Paul, that is complete nonsense, if

:21:05. > :21:07.I may say so. Our corporation tax has been consistently lowered by

:21:08. > :21:11.this government with the support of the Liberal Democrats since 2010.

:21:12. > :21:16.What we're proposing is to put it up during the lifetime the Parliament

:21:17. > :21:21.to 26%. Let me finish, that is less than it was in 2010. And if you put

:21:22. > :21:25.that corporation tax up, you are then in a position to deal with the

:21:26. > :21:30.crisis in social care, the crisis in our NHS, properly fund our schools

:21:31. > :21:35.and not ask headteachers to collect the parents to pay the teachers. And

:21:36. > :21:40.I would say this, Amber Rudd seems so confident that this is a country

:21:41. > :21:49.at ease with itself - have you been to a food bank, have you seen people

:21:50. > :21:54.sleeping around our stations...? Have you seen the level of poverty

:21:55. > :21:58.that exists because of your government's conscious decisions on

:21:59. > :22:04.food banks? Of course I have seen food banks. The way not to have

:22:05. > :22:12.people using food banks is to make sure... I am sorry, if you want to

:22:13. > :22:17.take us back to the 1970s, then it will be bad for the economy. Paul...

:22:18. > :22:20.I would like you to answer a specific point, you have made many

:22:21. > :22:24.spending commitments in your manifesto, they are going to cost a

:22:25. > :22:28.lot of money, you would also add to borrowing - how does that create the

:22:29. > :22:31.economy which enables more to be spent on working people who need it?

:22:32. > :22:35.What we have had is a government for the past seven years which has

:22:36. > :22:39.borrowed more, run up a greater deficit and cut public services at

:22:40. > :22:42.the same time, and at the lowest growth rate of any industrial

:22:43. > :22:48.country. The system they have is not working. What we're proposing is to

:22:49. > :22:51.raise corporation tax, yes, in order to make the funding commitments that

:22:52. > :22:55.I have already outlined. But it is also to establish a serious national

:22:56. > :23:00.investment bank to investing in info structure all around this country,

:23:01. > :23:06.so we do get a sustainable, growing economy. We cannot go on giving

:23:07. > :23:09.money away to the very rich. This covenant is proposing another 60

:23:10. > :23:13.billion in tax giveaways in the next five years. Instead, I say, tell it

:23:14. > :23:18.about and invest in the future of all of our people. Paul Nuttall, and

:23:19. > :23:25.then Tim Farron... Businesses will leave this country, and if they do

:23:26. > :23:31.that... They're leaving already, because of Brexit, Paul. If they

:23:32. > :23:34.leave, there is less tax, less jobs and more people will be unemployed -

:23:35. > :23:38.that is what you will get if you vote Labour. We need to be

:23:39. > :23:43.compassionate to the individual, but we also have to get the big choices

:23:44. > :23:47.right. The other front in the room. The fact is, we need to remain in

:23:48. > :23:50.the single market, or else we will not be able to afford the National

:23:51. > :23:54.Health Service, social care or any of the support we are talking about.

:23:55. > :23:58.And if Jeremy cared about having enough money to spend on those who

:23:59. > :24:01.needed it the most, to raise living standards, he would not have trooped

:24:02. > :24:04.through the lobbies with the Conservatives and Ukip to trigger

:24:05. > :24:09.Article 50 and to make Britain poorer. I'm sure there will be an

:24:10. > :24:13.opportunity to debate that but I have to take on some of Jeremy

:24:14. > :24:17.Corbyn's fantasy economics. He has this money tree wish list in his

:24:18. > :24:20.manifesto. It is very easy to think about how you spend money, it is

:24:21. > :24:24.much harder to think about how you raise money. His proposals don't add

:24:25. > :24:29.up. He thinks it is some sort of game of Monopoly, perhaps, where you

:24:30. > :24:33.ask the bank for the money to buy the electrics and the railways and

:24:34. > :24:38.the gasworks. Well, it's not like that, Jeremy. This is people's hard

:24:39. > :24:43.earned money. We will protect that, we won't roll the dice. Thank you

:24:44. > :24:47.for all your responses to this question. It is time for us to move

:24:48. > :24:56.on to our second question of the evening. Once we have left the EU,

:24:57. > :25:02.how will your party ensure we have the workers and the skills we need

:25:03. > :25:06.to make the UK a success? How will we have the workers and skills we

:25:07. > :25:11.need to make the UK is access after Brexit, Paul Nuttall? Very easily,

:25:12. > :25:17.because we will be controlling our own borders. When people voted out

:25:18. > :25:20.last year, they did not just vote to control borders, they voted to

:25:21. > :25:24.reduce immigration as well. In the last week, it was announced that a

:25:25. > :25:29.city the size of Hull came to this country... That was not on the

:25:30. > :25:33.ballot paper, though. Hold on, a city the size of Hull came to this

:25:34. > :25:37.country, net. That will be Birmingham over five years. It is

:25:38. > :25:41.unsustainable. We need to reduce immigration, and we do it by having

:25:42. > :25:45.an Australian, points-based system. So, if you've got the skills that

:25:46. > :25:51.this country needs, yes, please come here and work. But beyond that, we

:25:52. > :25:57.have to get the population under control, because on the route be on,

:25:58. > :26:01.we will have a population of 80 million by the middle of this

:26:02. > :26:05.century. You just think what will happen, there will have to be a huge

:26:06. > :26:09.school building programme, new hospitals, new motorways, a new rail

:26:10. > :26:14.network, new houses. We are already having to build a house every seven

:26:15. > :26:16.minutes to keep up. Reduce immigration, have a points-based

:26:17. > :26:26.system, it will be good for the economy and good for... Last week's,

:26:27. > :26:31.a middle-aged Asian man on his way home from work was abused and called

:26:32. > :26:35.racist names and called a terrorist. He had just finish 50 hours saving

:26:36. > :26:39.lives after the Manchester bombing. He was a doctor. That is what

:26:40. > :26:50.happens when you demonise immigrants. That is what happens

:26:51. > :26:52.when the language... Does immigration cause pressures which

:26:53. > :26:57.need to be met, do we need to invest more in infrastructure, to make sure

:26:58. > :27:04.we invest the taxes that immigrants pay to make sure that we provide for

:27:05. > :27:08.everybody? Of course, yes. I'm afraid what the Prime Minister has

:27:09. > :27:12.done for the past seven years is to set completely barmy, bogus targets

:27:13. > :27:17.which she fails to meet every single year. Do we need that? No, we don't.

:27:18. > :27:22.We need a policy which is good for our businesses, our farmers, our

:27:23. > :27:24.health service, a wise immigration policy, not a Conservative

:27:25. > :27:33.immigration policy written to appease Ukip. Immigration is an

:27:34. > :27:36.important part of strengthening our country and supplying additional

:27:37. > :27:39.support that we need to our schools. But we have to make sure we have an

:27:40. > :27:43.immigration policy that we can control. We have said, the

:27:44. > :27:46.Conservative Party and the government, that we will continue to

:27:47. > :27:49.reduce those numbers. As we leave the European Union, we will have

:27:50. > :27:54.more chance to do that and to be able to decide who comes to this

:27:55. > :27:57.country. But be in no doubt, we will always have an immigration policy

:27:58. > :28:00.which although it continues to reduce, WILL attract the brightest

:28:01. > :28:04.and the best and will make sure that people can come here to support our

:28:05. > :28:07.economy and develop businesses here. Jeremy Corbyn, you were talking

:28:08. > :28:11.about immigration today, and you said you would make no false

:28:12. > :28:16.promises about cutting it - does that mean you will make no promises

:28:17. > :28:20.at all on cutting immigration? What will happen on leaving the European

:28:21. > :28:24.Union is that we cease to be members of the single market, and therefore,

:28:25. > :28:29.free movement ends. What we are saying is that every EU national who

:28:30. > :28:33.is resident in this country must be given permanent rights of residence

:28:34. > :28:40.here and not blocked. Secondly, that we will ask, as we've already done

:28:41. > :28:46.in opposition, that all European governance do the same for British

:28:47. > :28:50.nationals living there. And that we recognise the massive contribution

:28:51. > :28:54.made by people who have come to this country from all over the world, as

:28:55. > :29:00.well as from Europe, to our health service, education, industries and

:29:01. > :29:04.universities. My point was, would you make any promise on cutting

:29:05. > :29:08.immigration? What I would say is, we will have a fair and managed

:29:09. > :29:12.migration system which is based on the needs of this country and the

:29:13. > :29:16.rights of family reunion. What is fair? Fair is where you bring people

:29:17. > :29:20.in when they have got jobs to come to or it is necessary for them to be

:29:21. > :29:25.working here, or we need them to assist in the economy. That is

:29:26. > :29:31.fairer. Would immigration go up, Jeremy? It is also important that we

:29:32. > :29:34.maintain the links of universities with counterparts across Europe. Is

:29:35. > :29:42.it going to go up? This government under Theresa May sent lorries

:29:43. > :29:49.around Britain telling people to go home you have campaigned for more

:29:50. > :29:56.immigration to Wales... No, I haven't. To get Wales the workers it

:29:57. > :29:59.needs. In your manifesto, did you not say that he wanted a visa system

:30:00. > :30:03.for Wales so that you could attract the workers you need, which means

:30:04. > :30:09.you don't feel Wales has the workers it needs at the moment?

:30:10. > :30:16.We're quite happy with the workers we've got. Why do we need a visa

:30:17. > :30:19.system to attract more workers to Wales? Because Theresa May is going

:30:20. > :30:23.to end freedom of movement and that brings risks to the Welsh economy.

:30:24. > :30:28.So you may need more workers to come in the future? We want to keep the

:30:29. > :30:36.ones we've got but can I just make the point? How does that square with

:30:37. > :30:41.most people in Wales voting for Brexit? Ukip has claimed that people

:30:42. > :30:44.voted to leave the EU and in so doing they also voted to curb

:30:45. > :30:49.immigration but I don't think we can read that into the result. Some

:30:50. > :30:52.people may well have voted to curb immigration but there was only one

:30:53. > :30:57.question on the ballot paper and immigration wasn't on it. I'm afraid

:30:58. > :31:03.that Ukip keep using this issue. They want to whip up peoples hatred,

:31:04. > :31:10.division and fear and that is why they talk immigration. APPLAUSE

:31:11. > :31:15.Stop lying about immigration. This isn't about immigrants, it is about

:31:16. > :31:21.government policy and the government have got the wrong time and again.

:31:22. > :31:24.Amber, her party have served in three manifestos now they will get

:31:25. > :31:29.immigration down to the tens of thousands. It is Jackanory, it is

:31:30. > :31:32.not going to happen. Jeremy will give you a figure because

:31:33. > :31:39.immigration will go up under Labour. Only one party here tonight... It is

:31:40. > :31:45.what the majority of what British people want. Poll after poll shows

:31:46. > :31:47.it. You are looking at ?1 billion additional cost to our National

:31:48. > :31:50.Health Service because the government's bundling of the deal

:31:51. > :31:59.with Europe means you will have thousands... Angus Robertson. I

:32:00. > :32:03.think this debate shames and demeans us all. I don't think there is

:32:04. > :32:07.anyone in this room or anybody watching this debate from Cornwall

:32:08. > :32:11.to Caithness who does not understand the positive contribution that

:32:12. > :32:16.people have made to this land who have come from the rest of Europe

:32:17. > :32:24.and the world. APPLAUSE Demonising those people is totally

:32:25. > :32:31.unacceptable. Scotland's experience, Scotland's problem has never been

:32:32. > :32:35.immigration. It may well be the case that a different realities in

:32:36. > :32:39.different parts of the UK, I accept that but in Scotland we value the

:32:40. > :32:43.contribution of people who have come to our land, we value refugees who

:32:44. > :32:48.sought refuge in our country and there is much more we should do to

:32:49. > :32:51.make sure people are able to stay in Scotland but we should also be able

:32:52. > :32:58.to protect people who've come there. The first thing I would do is make

:32:59. > :33:02.sure that every EU citizen who is here is guaranteed the right to

:33:03. > :33:07.stage. It is totally unacceptable that this Tory government has not

:33:08. > :33:11.been prepared to give them the guaranteed, the promise they can

:33:12. > :33:18.stay. That is totally unacceptable. APPLAUSE

:33:19. > :33:21.If it is perfectly possible to have different immigration policies in

:33:22. > :33:24.countries such as Canada and Australia who have different

:33:25. > :33:27.policies between different provinces in the country, it is possible to

:33:28. > :33:31.have different immigration rules for different parts of the UK and that

:33:32. > :33:37.is what the SNP supports. And the question about the upper limit? The

:33:38. > :33:40.problem is we are losing people, I don't know how money people saw the

:33:41. > :33:47.report last week, but the issue is people is leaving. Caroline Lucas.

:33:48. > :33:51.On the subject of the right of EU nationals who have made their lives

:33:52. > :33:55.here in good faith to stay here, it is unbelievably cruel to be using

:33:56. > :33:59.those lives as bargaining chips in these negotiations. The government

:34:00. > :34:04.could be saying that they should stay. I want to be able to make the

:34:05. > :34:08.case proudly for free movement. I think free movement have been the

:34:09. > :34:12.most wonderful gift, the ability to travel and work and live and love in

:34:13. > :34:16.27 other member state and for them to come here and I have to say I'm

:34:17. > :34:18.sorry the Labour Party now does not support that. I think our country is

:34:19. > :34:34.enriched by people coming from other countries, the put in I Love

:34:35. > :34:36.is a confident, outward facing country recognising that migration

:34:37. > :34:38.makes a massive positive contribution. Right now we have

:34:39. > :34:41.people like Paul and his hate filled rhetoric who make people feel as if

:34:42. > :34:44.the reason they can't get a leg of the housing ladder of Ocon the AGP

:34:45. > :34:49.is because of migration and it is not. -- or they can't see their GP.

:34:50. > :34:54.It is because the government has not invested enough in public services.

:34:55. > :34:59.If you are trying to see someone in the NHS, you're more likely to find

:35:00. > :35:02.a migrant treating you as a doctor than ahead of you in the queue.

:35:03. > :35:08.Jeremy Corbyn, could you respond to the point on giving up on free

:35:09. > :35:11.movement. The problems we have of exploitation of workers in this

:35:12. > :35:15.country and groups of workers who have been brought in wholesale from

:35:16. > :35:19.lower paid economies in Central Europe is a serious one. Those

:35:20. > :35:23.people are themselves grossly exploited, brought here to undermine

:35:24. > :35:29.existing pay and working conditions... Can I finish? That

:35:30. > :35:34.will make this situation worse in any community where that takes

:35:35. > :35:37.place. I was demanding that Barbara Dee Kelly -- proper medallist and

:35:38. > :35:41.while we were still in the EU before the referendum and that strategy has

:35:42. > :35:48.to stop. There has to be managed migration that is not designed to

:35:49. > :35:51.undermine working conditions... A lot of people making a great deal of

:35:52. > :35:56.money from property of those people. I'm astonished that the Labour Party

:35:57. > :36:02.is now a pink Ukip in using the same arguments about immigration. The

:36:03. > :36:07.single European market matters to all others -- that Labour is aping

:36:08. > :36:11.Ukip. Why don't you stand up to the Tories and say, we want to remain

:36:12. > :36:14.within the single market because it matters to jobs of people from

:36:15. > :36:23.Britain and the rest of Europe who live in the UK? What we have is

:36:24. > :36:26.rhetoric around here about helping those EU nationals who live here and

:36:27. > :36:30.raise their children here and work in universities like this and served

:36:31. > :36:34.in our hospitals but when it came to the vote in the House of Commons the

:36:35. > :36:37.Labour Party did not show up. In the Lord be instructed their people to

:36:38. > :36:41.vote against the Lib Dem amendment which would have guaranteed the

:36:42. > :36:47.right to remain for EU citizens. I would like Amber Rudd to respond to

:36:48. > :36:49.the point that you are using those people as bargaining chips?

:36:50. > :36:53.Absolutely untrue, what we are concerned about are the 4 million, 3

:36:54. > :36:57.million here and 1 million UK citizens in the rest of the European

:36:58. > :37:02.Union. We need to make sure we get a deal to protect all their rights. As

:37:03. > :37:06.this squabbling was going on I was thinking about the 9th of June and

:37:07. > :37:09.the different leaders who have had discussions about so-called

:37:10. > :37:11.progressive alliance and I was thinking how chaotic it would be if

:37:12. > :37:29.they got together and formed a coalition and tried to run the

:37:30. > :37:32.government. SHOUT OVER EACH OTHER. What is chaotic is you and Ukip

:37:33. > :37:35.aren't in arm. You stood on a platform about a year ago saying

:37:36. > :37:41.that you thought that Britain would be safer, stronger and better off in

:37:42. > :37:46.the EU. Were you wrong then or are you wrong now? We can't trust you on

:37:47. > :37:52.this. You are hitching your wagon to Ukip. What I'm consistent about it

:37:53. > :37:56.accepting the result of a referendum. I know that for Angus

:37:57. > :38:00.there is no referendum result he will accept, everybody seems to be

:38:01. > :38:03.wrong to him but the fact is we had this debate last year, there has

:38:04. > :38:06.been the result and I want to make sure that we get the right result

:38:07. > :38:14.and under Theresa May we will negotiate... We are out of time on

:38:15. > :38:20.this particular question, thank you very much. It is time for our next

:38:21. > :38:24.question from Rhiannon. All the parties have promised more money for

:38:25. > :38:29.public services, where is it coming from and how can we trust that your

:38:30. > :38:33.plans will add up? Thank you, promises of money, where does it

:38:34. > :38:38.come from and how can we trust your plans? Caroline Lucas. The first

:38:39. > :38:42.thing to say is that we would stop spending money on things we simply

:38:43. > :38:46.don't think are a good use of it and Trident nuclear weapons would come

:38:47. > :38:49.close to the top of that list. APPLAUSE

:38:50. > :38:55.We will scrap nuclear weapons which would give is around 130 billion

:38:56. > :38:59.minimum. We would not be building HS2, we would not go ahead and give

:39:00. > :39:03.massive subsidies to Hinckley nuclear-power station. You stop

:39:04. > :39:06.wasting money firstly and then you have the principle that says that

:39:07. > :39:10.those people who have more money, the broadest shoulders, should be

:39:11. > :39:16.ebbing more into the system. What we need to be doing is levying things

:39:17. > :39:22.like a wealth tax, looking at issues around corporation tax. It is wrong

:39:23. > :39:25.we are going for this bargain basement tax haven, we should be

:39:26. > :39:29.going for a company where corporations pay their tax but the

:39:30. > :39:34.bottom line is that this country is not a poor country. The money is in

:39:35. > :39:38.the wrong hands, there is vast inequality in the country. If we

:39:39. > :39:43.were to sort out that problem, we would have a much better chance of

:39:44. > :39:49.ensuring that public services are properly paid for. Take the NHS, we

:39:50. > :39:53.put far less into the NHS than most other countries of similar GDP. We

:39:54. > :39:57.don't put that money in the public services and therefore we don't have

:39:58. > :40:01.the world-class public services we demand. The Greens are clear that

:40:02. > :40:05.for us public services should be in public hands, not having the private

:40:06. > :40:11.sector in them. Thank you, I will to Amber Rudd. The question is about

:40:12. > :40:15.trusting plans and in your manifesto there was a notable absence of

:40:16. > :40:23.costings. I would say in answer to the question to judge us on our

:40:24. > :40:27.record. LAUGHTER We have cut the deficit, we have

:40:28. > :40:32.reduced taxes for the lowest paid and we have made sure we have

:40:33. > :40:36.continued to invest in the NHS. Another ?8 billion a year by the end

:40:37. > :40:40.of this Parliament. The only way we can have that money to invest in our

:40:41. > :40:44.public services, and we know the importance of them, our schools and

:40:45. > :40:48.hospitals, is to make sure we have a strong economy which does sometimes

:40:49. > :40:52.means making difficult choices, the sort of choices that no other party

:40:53. > :40:56.here is prepared to face up to. We have to make sure we control our

:40:57. > :41:01.spending and have that strong economy but the sure way to bust our

:41:02. > :41:05.economy and lead to danger is to have false negotiations with the EU,

:41:06. > :41:09.the sort of leader like Jeremy Corbyn support of perhaps by the

:41:10. > :41:15.people here who would create confusion when trying to deal with

:41:16. > :41:20.the 27 governments. Jeremy Corbyn. I'm very clear we will negotiate

:41:21. > :41:23.tariff free trade access to European market so our monitoring industry

:41:24. > :41:28.jobs are defended and supported and we have a growing economy as a

:41:29. > :41:32.result. We have made a number of very clear spending commitment in

:41:33. > :41:37.our manifesto. They are set out in the spending plans and also in the

:41:38. > :41:41.manifest itself. The Conservative government has made a lot of

:41:42. > :41:44.choices, we know what they are, our schools are underfunded, hospitals

:41:45. > :41:53.overcrowded, students are saddled with debt, a growing housing crisis

:41:54. > :41:55.and at every turn their answer is to further reduce corporation tax and

:41:56. > :41:59.further reduce tax for the very wealthiest in society. Are you sure

:42:00. > :42:02.your plans add up? It was only yesterday you could not remember the

:42:03. > :42:07.cost of one of your policies. I am absolutely sure they add up, I'm

:42:08. > :42:14.clear about this. For example, if we want to remove university tuition

:42:15. > :42:18.fees, and we do, so our students are not saddled with that, and restore

:42:19. > :42:22.maintenance grant so all children, whatever background, as a child of

:42:23. > :42:25.going to university, cost ?11 billion. I think that is money well

:42:26. > :42:37.spent and the kind of investment this country needs. APPLAUSE

:42:38. > :42:41.Why should a child's future be determined by the postcode in which

:42:42. > :42:45.they are born? That is why we are determined to bring in three

:42:46. > :42:48.preschool 30 hours a week from two to four-year-olds and make sure that

:42:49. > :42:55.every primary school child gets a free lunch every day so they can

:42:56. > :42:59.learn while they are properly fed. Jeremy, you have a Labour government

:43:00. > :43:03.in Wales and they are not doing those things. It is charging

:43:04. > :43:06.students to go to university. Why are you saying this here when you

:43:07. > :43:12.have an example of the Labour government... This is a UK

:43:13. > :43:19.Government policy. It is going to be UK policy and it will mean that the

:43:20. > :43:24.money is made available there by increasing tax, not for the first

:43:25. > :43:30.95% of the population, but the other 5%, to ensure the funds are there.

:43:31. > :43:34.Because I am fed up with the idea that so many children growing up in

:43:35. > :43:37.the poorer households and communities don't get the same

:43:38. > :43:41.chances as others to get to university and get on in life. They

:43:42. > :43:49.lose and we all lose because we lose those brilliant people to our

:43:50. > :43:54.communities. Angus Robertson, your manifesto also included major

:43:55. > :43:59.spending promises an extra ?180 billion for public services UK wide.

:44:00. > :44:04.It is actually 128 alien to the different sources are rescheduling

:44:05. > :44:09.the UK finances and 10 billion in funds to be raised in taxation

:44:10. > :44:22.largely through the 45 to 50p tax change -- 128 billion. Can I bring

:44:23. > :44:28.up a serious issue which I think has been the biggest so far in the

:44:29. > :44:32.campaign? That relates to social care and to pensions. I think when

:44:33. > :44:37.older people are facing the most likely prospect which is a

:44:38. > :44:42.re-elected Tory government, sadly, and they are promising a dementia

:44:43. > :44:47.tax, an end to the Winter Fuel Payment, and cuts to the pension, I

:44:48. > :44:51.think those people deserve to know by how much. And they have not been

:44:52. > :44:55.told will stop the Prime Minister did not have the guts to come along

:44:56. > :45:03.this evening to tell us so I would like to challenge... APPLAUSE

:45:04. > :45:06.I would like to challenge Amber Rudd to tell us the answer to that

:45:07. > :45:10.question now because they must have costed it, they must know how much

:45:11. > :45:14.money it will bring in so please tell the pensioners of this country

:45:15. > :45:22.how much they will have to page to fund Tory austerity, how much? Don't

:45:23. > :45:26.give up on me quite yet, it is only halfway through the debate. To raise

:45:27. > :45:29.a May not be here, but a I hope to make a good fist of it. We have made

:45:30. > :45:34.a clear decision to make sure we will protect the poorest in our

:45:35. > :45:37.society, which means the pensioners... The pensioners will be

:45:38. > :45:46.protected, the winter fuel payments won't be paid to millionaires. What

:45:47. > :45:51.has happened to the triple lock. So, where will the level be put, then?

:45:52. > :45:55.Under a Labour government, the pensioners saw a rise in their

:45:56. > :46:02.pensions of 85p in one year. Under this government, we seem pensioners'

:46:03. > :46:07.pay increase by more than ?1000. Will you be protecting the triple

:46:08. > :46:11.lock? Axemen come have you not read my manifesto, I am happy to give you

:46:12. > :46:14.copy afterwards. I want an answer now, are you going to protect the

:46:15. > :46:19.triple lock? It's not about the triple lock. Amber Rudd... There are

:46:20. > :46:25.two specific points here, one is about the level of the cap on social

:46:26. > :46:28.care, and the other is, you have not said at what level you will be means

:46:29. > :46:31.testing the winter fuel payments. We have said we will consult on that,

:46:32. > :46:37.but a I can tell you very clearly that millionaires will not be given

:46:38. > :46:40.it. Jeremy Corbyn has asked me about looking after pensioners, and I

:46:41. > :46:43.would like to answer that. We will always look after pensioners to make

:46:44. > :46:48.sure they have dignity and security in retirement. We have committed to

:46:49. > :46:52.making sure that their pension will always be updated according to

:46:53. > :46:59.inflation. That is so different to the commitment they got under

:47:00. > :47:04.Labour. Tim Farron? Amber Rudd is not answering the question. We have

:47:05. > :47:10.a general election in eight days' time, Theresa May assuming a great

:47:11. > :47:14.landslide, which is wetting -- where she think she will not bother coming

:47:15. > :47:18.tonight. We will take your house off you, and we will let you know how

:47:19. > :47:22.much you can keep after you give us a great majority. If you give

:47:23. > :47:24.Theresa May permission to do what she likes, that is what will happen

:47:25. > :47:34.on the 8th of June. There was a question about how you

:47:35. > :47:39.make things add up, the Liberal Democrats have a fully costed

:47:40. > :47:41.manifesto. I will tell you what, there is a long-term economic plan

:47:42. > :47:46.underlining the whole of our manifesto, and that is, don't leave

:47:47. > :47:51.the European single market and throwaway ?15 billion every single

:47:52. > :47:56.year. You have been clear about how you would pay for the extra ?6

:47:57. > :48:00.billion - do you think that would be transformative? Absolutely. There

:48:01. > :48:06.are those who say it would not make that much difference? To me can the

:48:07. > :48:10.NHS is personal, not political. Why mum had ovarian cancer, from the

:48:11. > :48:16.point of her diagnosis to treatment, to her care, to her passing away, in

:48:17. > :48:21.a ward just two floors away from the one where she had given birth to me,

:48:22. > :48:24.everybody out there, our experience of the National Health Service is

:48:25. > :48:30.personal. Let me finish. The point is this took if you look at and you

:48:31. > :48:34.use national health services, you know, as we saw in Manchester just

:48:35. > :48:44.last week, how utterly dedicated and brilliant they are, and yet... And

:48:45. > :48:47.yet, Caroline, let me finish, what we have got here is, you see the

:48:48. > :48:52.professionalism and the decency of those people, but have we got the

:48:53. > :49:01.best funded health service in the world? No, we haven't. Paul Nuttall,

:49:02. > :49:03.of Ukip. It is important we put a penny on income tax to fund the

:49:04. > :49:07.National Health Service. The question was, how would you raise

:49:08. > :49:12.the money? We've been quite detailed about how we would do it. Firstly,

:49:13. > :49:15.we would scrap HS2, which is only there for the benefit of one place

:49:16. > :49:22.and one place alone, and that is London. We would also look at the

:49:23. > :49:25.Barnet formula, which gives Scots ?1700 per head more than us, the

:49:26. > :49:33.English. It needs to be scrapped. And finally... A famous ?350 million

:49:34. > :49:38.a week! We would slash the foreign aid budget, which is costing the

:49:39. > :49:46.British people ?30 billion. And we will transfer that money to the

:49:47. > :49:49.National Health Service. Because we are prepared... We cannot hear him

:49:50. > :49:55.speak. Because we are prepared to look at different priorities, we can

:49:56. > :49:59.give the NHS an extra ?9 billion a year, ?2 billion extra for social

:50:00. > :50:05.care. It is not that long ago that you call the NHS a monolithic

:50:06. > :50:09.hangover - did you change your mind? In the early years of procurement, I

:50:10. > :50:15.think I was right, I think the NHS would do better. However, going into

:50:16. > :50:18.this election, and the last one, we have gone into it with a clear

:50:19. > :50:22.commitment to keep the NHS in public hands and to put extra money in. We

:50:23. > :50:28.will be taking money from the foreign aid budget, as I said. Thank

:50:29. > :50:34.you all for your responses to that question.

:50:35. > :50:37.Don't forget, if you want to get involved in the debate at home

:50:38. > :50:39.you can join the conversation on social media using

:50:40. > :50:53.We can now go to the next question. Good evening. What are your

:50:54. > :50:57.priorities for making Britain a safer country and the world a safer

:50:58. > :51:02.place? What are your priorities for making Britain a safer country, and

:51:03. > :51:07.the world a safer place come and is Robertson? I will speak for all of

:51:08. > :51:11.my colleagues here, at the forefront of our minds are all of the families

:51:12. > :51:15.who suffered the devastation to their loved ones and relatives in

:51:16. > :51:22.the attack on Manchester. What happened there was a horror, and

:51:23. > :51:26.sadly, it's happening far too often, both here and around the world. So I

:51:27. > :51:30.think the first thing we need to do is that we need to take safety and

:51:31. > :51:35.security seriously. We need to invest in the police, not cut them,

:51:36. > :51:38.as has been the case in England. In Scotland, we've managed to maintain

:51:39. > :51:42.the police numbers. That is our first thing, let's the police and

:51:43. > :51:47.give them the resources they need, and the intelligence services. There

:51:48. > :51:52.has been some discussion about the link between UK foreign policy and

:51:53. > :51:56.becoming perhaps a terrorist threat. I think that is a dangerous link to

:51:57. > :52:00.draw, however, I would say this. I think we are right to question our

:52:01. > :52:04.intervention in different parts of the world. In Afghanistan, Iraq and

:52:05. > :52:09.Libya. The lesson I draw from that is not that it might be wrong

:52:10. > :52:14.sometimes to intervene. We agreed that helping people in Libya was a

:52:15. > :52:18.good thing. What was wrong was spending 13 times more bombing that

:52:19. > :52:21.country than helping to rebuild it, and leaving areas of the world...

:52:22. > :52:35.Leaving areas of the world with unhave and spaces is where terrorism

:52:36. > :52:40.and extremism thrives. We need to give the police and security

:52:41. > :52:44.services the tools they require, so, not cutting the police would be a

:52:45. > :52:48.first step. And I think we need to be very cautious about intervene

:52:49. > :52:52.internationally, and if we're going to do it, we have to think long and

:52:53. > :52:56.hard about making sure that those places remain stable and safe for

:52:57. > :53:01.lunar years to come. Jeremy Corbyn W have talked about our foreign

:53:02. > :53:04.interventions and the link? What happened in Manchester was

:53:05. > :53:10.unbelievably abominable in every way. Innocent lives were taken from

:53:11. > :53:13.mainly young people out enjoying themselves. I want to live in a

:53:14. > :53:17.country which protects the right of people to go out and enjoy

:53:18. > :53:20.themselves in any town or city. The consequences of that are appalling

:53:21. > :53:25.for those families, and I hope those that perpetrated this act are all

:53:26. > :53:29.discovered and brought to book. But there is also a question we have to

:53:30. > :53:33.ask about the number of police officers. Under Amber Rudd and

:53:34. > :53:38.Theresa May before that, 20,000 police officers have lost their

:53:39. > :53:42.jobs, there are fewer police officers around than there were

:53:43. > :53:45.seven years ago. And those cuts are going to continue. I think it is

:53:46. > :53:49.important that we restore those number. What I also think, if I may

:53:50. > :53:53.say so, is the point which Angus was alluding to, about terror threats

:53:54. > :53:58.and other threats to our security. There are terror threats, obviously,

:53:59. > :54:01.and there are also cyber attack threats, as the National Health

:54:02. > :54:05.Service discovered. It is also important that we recognise that

:54:06. > :54:12.leaving large spaces of, for example, Libya without proper

:54:13. > :54:15.government, leaves an opportunity for those who wish to do harm to

:54:16. > :54:19.other people, giving them that space to do that. If you intervene

:54:20. > :54:26.somewhere, the consequences go on for a very long time. Do you think

:54:27. > :54:29.without the police cuts, the attack would not have happened? I am

:54:30. > :54:36.absolutely not saying that. The attack in Manchester happened

:54:37. > :54:39.because somebody decided that they wanted to go and kill a large number

:54:40. > :54:46.of people for some perverted belief in their minds. They have to be

:54:47. > :54:51.dealt with, and those people have to be protected. What I am also saying

:54:52. > :54:55.is, though, it would be extremely unwise for any government, anywhere

:54:56. > :54:59.in the world, to ignore what is happening in Libya, where large

:55:00. > :55:05.areas are left not properly governed and very dangerous forces are

:55:06. > :55:08.arising there. We need to recognise the human rights of people all

:55:09. > :55:14.around the world and be prepared to support them, not just go in and

:55:15. > :55:20.bomb and do nothing about it afterwards, which is what happened

:55:21. > :55:25.in Libya. Just a quick point of fact before I turn to Amber Rudd took a

:55:26. > :55:31.Diane Abbott has spoken about 10,000 new release numbers, you're saying

:55:32. > :55:36.20,000? No, I'm saying 20,000 have been cut under the Conservatives.

:55:37. > :55:40.What is also important is the response of people in this country

:55:41. > :55:42.to what happened image is to. I was in Manchester straight after the

:55:43. > :55:47.events took place, and Tim was there as well, and Amber Rudd. The most

:55:48. > :55:51.amazing sense of community unity. They were not going to allow the

:55:52. > :55:53.individual who killed those people to divide our community, it was a

:55:54. > :56:03.united response. It is a really important question.

:56:04. > :56:09.The first job of any government is to keep its citizens safe and

:56:10. > :56:14.secure. But I go to level with you - since 2014, we have been at the

:56:15. > :56:17.threat level of severe, which means an attack is highly likely. As Home

:56:18. > :56:24.Secretary for the past year, I seem the evidence, I've seen the warrants

:56:25. > :56:27.crossing my desk, I spend about two hours a day looking at them, seeing

:56:28. > :56:33.the real damage that some of these terrorists want to do to us. The way

:56:34. > :56:36.we try to stop them is by supporting our security services and

:56:37. > :56:40.counter-terrorism police. The best way to try and intervene in those

:56:41. > :56:43.plots is to make sure that they are well-funded, and we have increased

:56:44. > :56:49.their budget significantly since 2015 and we hope to do even more. At

:56:50. > :56:54.how do the cuts in police numbers make us safer? The fact is, they

:56:55. > :56:57.were reductions in the police budget because we had to make changes to be

:56:58. > :57:00.able to live within our means after 2010. But the police responded

:57:01. > :57:05.incredibly welcome a crime has fallen by a third 2010 and 2015, and

:57:06. > :57:13.we protected the police budget going forward. So, government CAN make

:57:14. > :57:16.sure we live within our means and protect communities. But with

:57:17. > :57:20.terrorism, we have to make sure we also have the right legislation. I

:57:21. > :57:24.am shocked that Jeremy Corbyn, just in 2011, boasted that he had opposed

:57:25. > :57:29.every piece of anti-terror legislation in his 13 years in

:57:30. > :57:34.office. I really think you must be held accountable for that, because I

:57:35. > :57:40.find it chilling. May I just remind you that in 2005, Theresa May voted

:57:41. > :57:45.against the anti-terrorist legislation at that time. And she

:57:46. > :57:48.voted against it, as did David Davis and a number of people who are now

:57:49. > :57:53.in your cabinet, because they felt that that legislation was giving too

:57:54. > :58:01.much executive power. My opposition to anti-terror legislation isn't

:58:02. > :58:04.opposition to protecting us from terrorism, it is simply saying that

:58:05. > :58:07.there must be judicial oversight over what is done in our name.

:58:08. > :58:28.There is. Tim Farron, in your manifesto, you said you were going

:58:29. > :58:32.to roll back state surveillance powers by ending the indiscriminate

:58:33. > :58:37.collection of communications data, do you still stand by that, after

:58:38. > :58:41.Manchester? If you look at the security services, what do they

:58:42. > :58:45.need, more powers, or is it resources to make use of the powers

:58:46. > :58:48.they already have? The temporary exclusion orders which exist now,

:58:49. > :58:53.only one has been used in the last two years. But undoubtedly, the

:58:54. > :58:58.shadow we are standing in now is that of Manchester. Manchester is my

:58:59. > :59:02.capital city, it matters to me. As Jeremy said, I was there, all four

:59:03. > :59:08.of my kids were in Manchester that night. Reminds us how safe are

:59:09. > :59:13.police and security services keep us, the countless times that such

:59:14. > :59:17.outrages have been prevented. How do you tackle it? Well, we will give an

:59:18. > :59:22.additional ?300 million to police to make sure that we deal with

:59:23. > :59:26.community policing, and we will also ensure that we restart the

:59:27. > :59:30.engagement with communities, so you get on the inside, to prevent it.

:59:31. > :59:36.There is undoubtedly an international angle to this, too.

:59:37. > :59:40.Here is the thing, the terrorists that hate Britain, you know what,

:59:41. > :59:43.they hate Belgium, they hate France, they hate Germany, they hate our way

:59:44. > :59:48.of life and everything that we stand for. Just as we in Manchester stood

:59:49. > :59:53.together against terrorism, and across Britain, we stand together

:59:54. > :59:55.against terrorism, so we must stand together with our neighbours, not

:59:56. > :59:59.just on this continent but around the world, with shared values, to

:00:00. > :00:04.fight it. And that will mean diplomacy, that will mean all sorts

:00:05. > :00:08.of things. And sometimes it will take real serious action. Sometimes

:00:09. > :00:11.it might even mean military action. We will have to do the tough thing

:00:12. > :00:16.to defeat the terrorists. Paul Nuttall?

:00:17. > :00:24.It is quite clear that the war in Iraq was fundamentally wrong because

:00:25. > :00:27.what was going to come next was going to be worse for that our

:00:28. > :00:30.foreign policy was not an excuse for what went on in Manchester and what

:00:31. > :00:39.politicians need to do is at least have the courage to name what it is,

:00:40. > :00:47.it is Islamist extremism. You have had a diatribe so let's... It is

:00:48. > :00:52.Islamist extremism, nobody has the courage to say what it is. How we

:00:53. > :00:57.solve it, we put 20,000 police officers back on the beat, 4000 more

:00:58. > :01:01.on the border force, we tighten our borders. 7000 new prison officers

:01:02. > :01:09.because radicalisation is right in our prisons and I can't believe we

:01:10. > :01:13.have allowed 350 jihadis to return to our country from Libya and Syria.

:01:14. > :01:17.If you go ant and fight or support Islamic State you should have your

:01:18. > :01:20.passport revoked and never be allowed back into this country.

:01:21. > :01:25.APPLAUSE What we also have to do is look at

:01:26. > :01:31.radicalising in our own mosques and I will say, I think you need to look

:01:32. > :01:35.at Saudi and Qatari funding of mosques in this country. And finally

:01:36. > :01:40.we need to get the Muslim community itself to the present programme,

:01:41. > :01:44.only one out of eight referrals to prevent, from the Muslim community.

:01:45. > :01:49.We have to rebuild trust and confidence. You know the murderer

:01:50. > :01:56.last Monday was reported on five separate occasions by the Muslim

:01:57. > :02:03.community. Caroline Lucas. Thank you to the question, and it is important

:02:04. > :02:06.and let me be clear that people who commit the kind of atrocities like

:02:07. > :02:12.in Manchester are barbaric and what they stand for is evil. The best

:02:13. > :02:15.form of defence against attacks like that is intelligence led policing

:02:16. > :02:19.and community engagement and the kind of response we have just heard

:02:20. > :02:23.from Paul which seems to suggest that the violence in Manchester was

:02:24. > :02:29.somehow representative of Islam is completely outrageous, it is no more

:02:30. > :02:33.representative of Islam than the murder of Jo Cox was representative

:02:34. > :02:37.of the wider British public. I'm deeply concerned about the police

:02:38. > :02:41.cuts we have talked about and it is interesting that the Police

:02:42. > :02:46.Federation warned those cuts could be very dangerous but I also think

:02:47. > :02:49.it is right that we review our interventions overseas. It is a

:02:50. > :02:53.disservice to democracy to present there is no link and close the

:02:54. > :02:57.debate. The former head of MI5 herself has said the invasion of

:02:58. > :03:02.Iraq exacerbated the terror threat to the UK and was highly significant

:03:03. > :03:08.in her words in terms of home-grown extremists. I want to say something

:03:09. > :03:13.to Amber because we can't solve all the problems in the world but we can

:03:14. > :03:20.stop adding to them. My question is this, why is Britain, -- why is

:03:21. > :03:25.Britain the second biggest arms dealer in the world? Why are we

:03:26. > :03:29.selling to 22 of the 30 countries on the government's own human rights

:03:30. > :03:36.watch list? Why did we make ten times more in arms sales to Saudi

:03:37. > :03:40.Arabia than we gave to Yemen in aid? I will make no apology for being a

:03:41. > :03:44.government that wants to defend this country. We will make sure that our

:03:45. > :03:50.defence budget is well funded and we do that by having a strong economy.

:03:51. > :03:55.We have to make sure we can do that by having a strong industry. Arms

:03:56. > :04:02.sales to Saudi Arabia cannot be justified on this being good for

:04:03. > :04:08.industry. APPLAUSE Leanne Wood. There does need to be

:04:09. > :04:12.some reviewing going on, we need to look at foreign policy and the

:04:13. > :04:17.prevent strategy. It is a fact that policing has been cut by 20%

:04:18. > :04:20.including when Theresa May was in the Home Office and it is a question

:04:21. > :04:25.of priorities. We should be investing in police and other public

:04:26. > :04:28.services, those are the people running into the dangerous

:04:29. > :04:32.situations when everybody else is running away. That point has been

:04:33. > :04:37.made, when you say we should look at what we are doing, what would you do

:04:38. > :04:41.differently in terms of attacking extremism? In terms of the cuts to

:04:42. > :04:46.public services, but has had an impact and if you take an example,

:04:47. > :04:50.youth work. When you had a well funded youth service there were

:04:51. > :04:55.youth workers available to challenge the ideology of young people... Are

:04:56. > :05:00.you saying austerity has made us less safe? I am saying it has cut

:05:01. > :05:04.youth workers and there are fewer people around to challenge the root

:05:05. > :05:10.cause and ideology that spurs these people on. Can I finish? I used to

:05:11. > :05:14.work as a probation officer and if we are interested in tackling the

:05:15. > :05:20.root cause of this problem, we had to understand what it is, understand

:05:21. > :05:24.the ideological drivers and they have to be challenged by people

:05:25. > :05:28.qualified to be able to do that. By cutting youth workers and other

:05:29. > :05:32.public services, you are reducing your ability to do that and that is

:05:33. > :05:38.one of the reasons we are less safe. Keep it brief. I think what we have

:05:39. > :05:43.to remember, particularly when everything is so raw just nine days

:05:44. > :05:46.after Manchester, there is a lot of finger-pointing going on and we all

:05:47. > :05:50.have ideas and some are different and some similar but the critical

:05:51. > :05:56.thing to remember at this point is that knee jerk new policies and laws

:05:57. > :05:59.tend to do more harm than good, more resources for security services and

:06:00. > :06:07.the police we have already will do a lot more good than harm. I said you

:06:08. > :06:10.needed to be brief, Paul Nuttall. Of course, the vast majority of Muslims

:06:11. > :06:15.in this country are peaceful and add to the economy and are great for our

:06:16. > :06:20.culture but there is a tiny minority within that community who hate who

:06:21. > :06:24.we are, the way we live, our democracy, and I've called it a

:06:25. > :06:27.cancer in the past, radical Islam is a cancer and it needs to be cut out,

:06:28. > :06:33.if not there will be more attacks. You have not ruled out looking up

:06:34. > :06:38.suspected terrorists? Without trial, would that make us safer? Frankly I

:06:39. > :06:44.have said nothing should be taken off the table. As far as I'm

:06:45. > :06:50.concerned, when MI5 tell as there is a possible 23,000 jihadis out there

:06:51. > :06:56.who want to do us harm... Angus Robertson. British lives over the

:06:57. > :07:00.human rights of any jihadis. I remember the question was about

:07:01. > :07:06.terrorism and extremism and you notice Ukip went straight for

:07:07. > :07:15.Muslims. It is my time to speak. It wasn't a Muslim who shot Jo Cox, one

:07:16. > :07:21.of Jeremy's MP colleagues, it was a British right-wing neo-Nazi. Who was

:07:22. > :07:24.it who gunned down kids in Norway? A Norwegian white racist neo-Nazi.

:07:25. > :07:33.There are all kinds of threats and we need to combat them all. Jeremy

:07:34. > :07:37.Corbyn. The response of the people of Manchester was absolutely

:07:38. > :07:40.magnificent, all communities of all faiths coming together and I utterly

:07:41. > :07:44.deplore the language that Paul Nuttall users and the subliminal

:07:45. > :07:55.attack the whole time on people of Muslim faith... You invited how mass

:07:56. > :08:00.-- Hamas to the House of Commons. If I might complete a sentence. We have

:08:01. > :08:05.to recognise we live in a multi-faith, multicultural society

:08:06. > :08:10.and an attack on any religion is totally unacceptable. We should

:08:11. > :08:13.recognise we should bring people together... Thank you, that is all

:08:14. > :08:21.the time we have on this particular question. Our next question comes

:08:22. > :08:25.from Rebecca. President Trump is pulling out of the Paris climate

:08:26. > :08:30.change agreement. How would the panellists deal with that? How would

:08:31. > :08:33.you deal with President Trump wanting to pull out of the Paris

:08:34. > :08:38.agreement? I will ask everybody to deal with this briefly so we can get

:08:39. > :08:42.one more question in. We will talk about Brexit being a huge threat and

:08:43. > :08:45.whatever you think, nothing better as a threat to our country and the

:08:46. > :08:50.future of our children than that of climate change. You are worried

:08:51. > :08:54.about immigration? You see the mass movement of people as land is

:08:55. > :08:59.designated by climate change and the reality is this, if it is simply for

:09:00. > :09:06.muesli eating Guardian readers to solve card climate change, we all

:09:07. > :09:10.soft so let's make a difference and that made a nationwide and App

:09:11. > :09:16.planet wide concerted effort to build the future we need. What can

:09:17. > :09:22.we do? We can make ourselves energy self-sufficient in renewable energy.

:09:23. > :09:27.95% of the Supply chain of energy in this country title and Marine and

:09:28. > :09:30.coastal energy is British made. Why not rebuild our economy whilst

:09:31. > :09:37.guaranteeing our futures? Caroline Lucas. I want to thank user much for

:09:38. > :09:40.that question because the Green party have been trying to get

:09:41. > :09:43.climate change onto this election campaign agenda for the past six

:09:44. > :09:47.weeks and it has been impossible soap thank you so much. It is a

:09:48. > :09:54.vital question, the greatest threat we face and in terms of what we do

:09:55. > :09:57.to President Trump, I'm trying to think of polite answer! Essentially

:09:58. > :10:05.what we need to do ignore him because the economics behind

:10:06. > :10:09.renewables is already such that we know that renewables are going to be

:10:10. > :10:12.cheaper than fossil fuels that they replace. That revolution is

:10:13. > :10:16.happening but what we need to do in this country is an awful lot more

:10:17. > :10:20.than is being doing -- being done by this government. We need to leave

:10:21. > :10:24.two thirds of all known fossil fuels in the ground if we are to have any

:10:25. > :10:28.hope of avoiding catastrophic climate change and that means a

:10:29. > :10:32.massive investment in renewable energy and efficiency. Amber Rudd of

:10:33. > :10:35.course was the energy secretary for a while but under herbs we did not

:10:36. > :10:39.see the kind of transition we urgently need if we are serious

:10:40. > :10:44.about climate change so we need to see the big fossil fuels in the

:10:45. > :10:47.ground, not giving subsidies, no fracking, not what is being planned

:10:48. > :10:52.or around the country under this government. We also need to seek an

:10:53. > :10:58.end to massive air pollution. I'm going to stop you because I wanted

:10:59. > :11:03.to do Paul Nuttall. President Trump is doing what he set out to do. He's

:11:04. > :11:07.the leader of the free world whether we like it or not and he said in his

:11:08. > :11:11.election campaign that he would withdraw from the Paris agreement

:11:12. > :11:17.and he is looking at India and China who have huge coal-fired power

:11:18. > :11:20.station building programmes which are taking place at the moment. Do

:11:21. > :11:25.you think he's doing the right thing? He's looking at the US

:11:26. > :11:28.economy and he promised to look after the rust belt and working

:11:29. > :11:31.class people and he knows that if they reduce energy bills by

:11:32. > :11:35.withdrawing from the Paris agreement he will protect the American economy

:11:36. > :11:40.and he is putting America first and I think Britain should put Britain

:11:41. > :11:44.at first as well. So would you want to see Britain doing the same? We

:11:45. > :11:50.are only to blame for 2% of global emissions. Companies will move to

:11:51. > :11:56.countries with lower... Jeremy Corbyn. We should absolutely adhere

:11:57. > :11:59.to the Paris climate change agreement and urge the American

:12:00. > :12:03.people to press the government and the Senate and house and president

:12:04. > :12:09.to adhere to it as well. APPLAUSE And in this country we are

:12:10. > :12:14.determined to achieve 60% of renewable energy by 9030, we are

:12:15. > :12:19.also determined to reduce emissions but it is not just about climate

:12:20. > :12:22.change emissions, it is also about our attitude towards the

:12:23. > :12:25.environment, levels of air quality and air pollution in our cities

:12:26. > :12:29.which are not being addressed by this government, and also, when we

:12:30. > :12:33.did have a growing and thriving solar power industry in the country,

:12:34. > :12:36.what did they do? Cut the tariffs were destroyed and damaged that

:12:37. > :12:43.Rudd. The UK's own official adviser says

:12:44. > :12:50.your government is not on track to make the pledge of cutting emissions

:12:51. > :12:55.by 80% by 2050? Why not. I will answer the first question, I am

:12:56. > :12:59.disappointed, I led the UK delegation to get that international

:13:00. > :13:02.agreement of 180 different countries pledging to that reduction and it is

:13:03. > :13:06.disappointing that the Americans are pulling out but I hope we can use

:13:07. > :13:10.our relationship with President Trump and our close relationship

:13:11. > :13:16.with the US to try to influence and make sure they nevertheless take the

:13:17. > :13:21.right steps. Tell him he is wrong. That's not quite how diplomacy

:13:22. > :13:25.works. The reason why I'm optimistic is because there has been such

:13:26. > :13:30.substantial investment in renewable energy and in solar. It increasingly

:13:31. > :13:35.does not need a subsidy and because of that investment it makes good

:13:36. > :13:42.economic sense as well as good renewable... What about air

:13:43. > :13:45.pollution? This is terrible leadership on the part of Donald

:13:46. > :13:48.Trump and also appalling leadership on the half of the Prime Minister

:13:49. > :13:54.who cannot even be bothered to come here and answer these questions for

:13:55. > :14:00.herself today. APPLAUSE It is no surprise. He was clear in

:14:01. > :14:03.his campaign what it was that he would be about in terms of climate

:14:04. > :14:07.change and he is sticking to his line but he is wrong and the world

:14:08. > :14:13.needs to tell him he is wrong. It is bad business. To answer the

:14:14. > :14:16.question, I'm more than disappointed, I am appalled that

:14:17. > :14:19.President Trump has walked away from a global approach to one of the

:14:20. > :14:25.biggest challenges we face at home and abroad. What he has done is what

:14:26. > :14:28.many others fear he will do in a number of different ways, walking

:14:29. > :14:32.away from having a multilateral approach, working together with

:14:33. > :14:37.other countries to deal with serious problems. That is why if the UK at a

:14:38. > :14:41.special relationship with the United States, and we remember the first

:14:42. > :14:46.trip that was made by Theresa May was to seem a climate change denier,

:14:47. > :14:50.namely Donald Trump, what kind of influence was used by the Prime

:14:51. > :15:03.Minister then to make sure he did not go forward with this disastrous.

:15:04. > :15:05.This is a government that has got rid of the climate change

:15:06. > :15:08.responsible at the at the Cabinet table and it is absolutely appalling

:15:09. > :15:11.so what we need to do is everything we can at home, I'm delighted that

:15:12. > :15:13.more than 50% of all energy generated in Scotland is three

:15:14. > :15:15.renewables, we wanted to go ahead with carbon capture and storage

:15:16. > :15:19.until it was scrapped by the Tories but there is more to be done and the

:15:20. > :15:22.promised and the government need to take climate change seriously in a

:15:23. > :15:25.way they have done recently and we need to impress all our

:15:26. > :15:33.international colleagues we need to work together and get this global

:15:34. > :15:45.challenge sorted. It is time now for our last question. In what way does

:15:46. > :15:48.your leadership have the talent and character required to take this

:15:49. > :15:51.country forward into the future? In what way does your leadership have

:15:52. > :15:59.the talent and the character needed to take this country forward, Jeremy

:16:00. > :16:02.Corbyn? Leadership is about understanding the people you

:16:03. > :16:09.represent, is about being prepared to learn, is about not being so high

:16:10. > :16:14.and mighty, you can't take advice. It is also about bringing people

:16:15. > :16:18.with you, it is also about ensuring that your responsibility is to

:16:19. > :16:21.protect the safety and security of everybody in this country, and to

:16:22. > :16:25.lead a government that cares for everybody in the country and doesn't

:16:26. > :16:28.walk by on the other side when there are people that are homeless, people

:16:29. > :16:33.that are starving, and we have millions of our children living in

:16:34. > :16:37.poverty. It is leadership to lead a government that is prepared to say

:16:38. > :16:42.to our society, we cannot go on like this, we have to start putting more

:16:43. > :16:45.money into our public services and our resources, we have to have an

:16:46. > :16:49.economy that works for all, and we don't have to have a spiv economy

:16:50. > :16:54.which gives tax relief to the biggest corporations and the

:16:55. > :16:55.wealthiest people whilst ignoring the desperate cries for social help

:16:56. > :17:12.from so many people in our country. Paul Nuttall. Your leadership? Well,

:17:13. > :17:16.I've never changed my stance pretty much on anything. I don't flip flop.

:17:17. > :17:23.I have always been, for example, a Brexiteer. Rack when I joined Ukip,

:17:24. > :17:27.you don't join Ukip for a career, you joined it because you've got

:17:28. > :17:31.principles. Our Prince Apoel simply this - we wanted to get our country

:17:32. > :17:36.out of the European Union, and we were very successful on the 23rd of

:17:37. > :17:41.June last year. What we've got to do is, we have got to ensure that we

:17:42. > :17:44.get the Brexit which people voted for, whereby we control our own

:17:45. > :17:50.borders and immigration, we get full control of our waters and fisheries

:17:51. > :17:56.back, we bring our laws back to Westminster, we leave the ECJ and

:17:57. > :18:00.the European Court of Human Rights. We are free to sign our own trade

:18:01. > :18:05.deals, we are out of the single market, and most importantly, we pay

:18:06. > :18:12.no divorce bill to the European Union, because since we've been

:18:13. > :18:18.members, since 1973, we've paid ?183 billion net in ownership fee alone.

:18:19. > :18:21.I would be strong enough going into the negotiations, I just hope the

:18:22. > :18:24.Prime Minister is. Would you refuse to pay your dues if you were going

:18:25. > :18:26.through a real divorce? Look, listen...

:18:27. > :18:39.We have given that club 183 billion since 1973. We have got 9 billion

:18:40. > :18:44.tied up in the European Investment Bank, and indeed, we only it's of

:18:45. > :18:48.its real estate. Don't talk down this country, we are the fifth

:18:49. > :18:52.largest economy in the world. In the real world, there is no such thing

:18:53. > :18:59.as a free divorce, you have to pay your dues. This is all about... This

:19:00. > :19:03.is all about trade, and we have a huge trading deficit with the EU,

:19:04. > :19:07.they need us more than we need them. For god's sake, let's be confident

:19:08. > :19:10.about ourselves. Amber Rudd, the question is about leadership, and

:19:11. > :19:16.the Conservatives have made a lot of noise about Theresa May's personal

:19:17. > :19:20.leadership and yet this is a campaign where we saw a major U-turn

:19:21. > :19:24.on social care? Part of being a good leader is having a good, strong team

:19:25. > :19:27.around you, and I am proud to be here representing the Conservative

:19:28. > :19:31.Party and the Prime Minister making that case. Let's face it, Jeremy

:19:32. > :19:35.only decided to come I think late this morning. I was rather hoping

:19:36. > :19:40.Diane Abbott might be here so I could debate with her as well. But

:19:41. > :19:42.the fact is, the most important challenge that this government is

:19:43. > :19:46.going to have going forward is getting a good negotiation with the

:19:47. > :19:51.EU. It is going to decide whether we have a strong economy, whether we

:19:52. > :19:55.can pay good wages to our public servants, Theresa May has the

:19:56. > :20:00.support of her team. She has the support of whoever becomes her MPs.

:20:01. > :20:04.Jeremy Corbyn has had a no confidence vote against him, which

:20:05. > :20:10.four out of five of his MPs would not support him on. How can he go in

:20:11. > :20:14.to negotiate with 27 different countries with such a weak team and

:20:15. > :20:19.weak support behind him? Theresa May will be able to deliver for us, as

:20:20. > :20:23.Home Secretary, she delivered 35 different opt-outs, she knows how to

:20:24. > :20:26.negotiate and deliver from the European Union. She will be the

:20:27. > :20:30.right leader for us. Jeremy Corbyn, can you respond to that point?

:20:31. > :20:32.300,000 people elected me to need this party, and I'm very proud to

:20:33. > :20:45.lead it. Caroline Lucas? I think the first

:20:46. > :20:48.rule of leadership is to show up. You don't a general election...

:20:49. > :20:56.You don't say it is the most important election in her lifetime

:20:57. > :21:03.and then not even be bothered to turn up to the debate. I am here as

:21:04. > :21:07.a co-leader and I am proud that the Green Party pioneers new ways of

:21:08. > :21:11.doing things. We want to see job sharing in all kinds of different

:21:12. > :21:18.areas of our lives and I am very happy to be there with my co-leader.

:21:19. > :21:20.Leadership is about listening, it is about legalising that all of us have

:21:21. > :21:24.leadership qualities, and in particular I think it is about

:21:25. > :21:27.trusting the public. On that issue, I do not understand why this

:21:28. > :21:32.government will not allow the people to have the final say on the EU

:21:33. > :21:36.referendum. Why can we not have a Vatican issued referendum, when we

:21:37. > :21:40.see the final deal, of what Theresa May or whoever it is brings back

:21:41. > :21:43.from Brussels? Why can we not trust the British people to have that

:21:44. > :21:47.final say? If they like what they see, that's great, but if they

:21:48. > :21:50.don't, away to have another look at that is by voting Green, because we

:21:51. > :21:54.will say on that ballot paper that you should have the right to remain

:21:55. > :21:57.in the EU if that is what you choose when you see the small print.

:21:58. > :22:03.Because since this referendum was called, so many lies were told...

:22:04. > :22:06.Tim Farron, your qualities of leadership? Well, good leaders do

:22:07. > :22:11.not run away from a debate. Theresa May undoubtedly should be here. We

:22:12. > :22:14.discuss this evening, her absence is undoubtedly the shadow which hangs

:22:15. > :22:17.over this election. How dare you call a general election and then run

:22:18. > :22:27.away from the debate? The question is about your talent

:22:28. > :22:33.and character of leadership? We are all products of our upbringing. I

:22:34. > :22:39.grew up in Preston in the 1980s and I saw what happens when a society, a

:22:40. > :22:43.community is taken for granted, in that case by a Conservative

:22:44. > :22:47.government with a great majority, half of parents out of work at any

:22:48. > :22:52.given time. And I'm determined to build a country for our kids, mine

:22:53. > :22:54.included, where people are decent to one another, where we have a

:22:55. > :22:58.National Health Service which is properly funded, and we will be

:22:59. > :23:02.honest to the British people, saying we will put a penny on income tax.

:23:03. > :23:07.It means stopping Theresa May's plans to do to your kids' schools

:23:08. > :23:11.what she is currently doing to our hospitals. It also means, if you

:23:12. > :23:15.want to leave the people, you have to like them as well and spend time

:23:16. > :23:18.amongst them. If you trust the people, then you do not impose that

:23:19. > :23:22.Brexit deal on the British people without them having the final say.

:23:23. > :23:28.Either the politicians will sign it off or the people will. I trust the

:23:29. > :23:32.people. I just want to turn to Angus Robertson. Real leadership is about

:23:33. > :23:37.putting the country before your party. And I think we all now know

:23:38. > :23:40.that this was a totally unnecessary election, and the only reason

:23:41. > :23:44.Theresa May called it was that she thought she was then have a massive

:23:45. > :23:49.majority a result of it. Whatever happened to strength and stability?

:23:50. > :23:54.Where has that gone?! Weak and wobbly is where we are, not so much

:23:55. > :24:01.the iron Lady as the U-turn Queen. That is not the leadership that we

:24:02. > :24:04.require. In contrast, as leader of the SNP in the House of Commons, the

:24:05. > :24:09.third party in the House of Commons, I am proud that we have led the

:24:10. > :24:13.effective opposition, when suddenly come the Labour Party has too often

:24:14. > :24:17.dropped the ball, asking questions not just which battered to people in

:24:18. > :24:21.Scotland, but in the rest of the UK, Europe and the world as well. I am

:24:22. > :24:24.confident that the SNP will be return to Westminster as the

:24:25. > :24:28.third-party, because we need to protect our country from the Tories.

:24:29. > :24:35.How many MPs? I am working hard to win in every single-seaters

:24:36. > :24:39.Scotland, Mishal, that is our plan. People must realise it is either the

:24:40. > :24:43.SNP or the Tories in Scotland. Whichever party they naturally vote

:24:44. > :24:53.for, they must realise this. Leanne Wood? I believe leaders should walk

:24:54. > :24:56.the walk, and should be prepared to defend so-so politics and their

:24:57. > :25:00.policies. They should also be prepared to stick to their guns, and

:25:01. > :25:04.it's shocking that Theresa May has done a U-turn on so many things.

:25:05. > :25:08.There was not going to be an election, now, there is an election.

:25:09. > :25:13.There was not going to be a tax on the self-employed, or there was, and

:25:14. > :25:16.then it was abolished. And then there is this latest U-turn on the

:25:17. > :25:22.dementia tax. I am not one for U-turns. Five country, we will stick

:25:23. > :25:32.to our manifesto promises, and Plaid Cymru will lead for Wales. Thank

:25:33. > :25:33.you. Thank you to all our speakers for their responses to that final

:25:34. > :25:41.question. That ends our audience

:25:42. > :25:43.questions tonight. Now for our speakers'

:25:44. > :25:55.closing statements, I am going to ask you to please

:25:56. > :25:58.applaud right at the end of all seven of the statements.

:25:59. > :26:07.Tonight has been a little like Groundhog Day - you've

:26:08. > :26:10.heard the same arguments, excuses and platitudes

:26:11. > :26:15.Ukip will always be the outsider - the one the Westminster elites

:26:16. > :26:19.and establishment media want to mock and ridicule.

:26:20. > :26:21.But we've been proved right on Brexit, proved

:26:22. > :26:24.right on immigration, proved right on grammar schools,

:26:25. > :26:30.proved right on protecting our police and security services -

:26:31. > :26:32.on 8th June, it's your decision, your country, your vote.

:26:33. > :26:36.Next is Caroline Lucas, co-leader of the Green Party.

:26:37. > :26:40.Tonight, this country stands at a crossroads - and the choice

:26:41. > :26:48.You can stand up for what really matters

:26:49. > :26:51.- values of openness, tolerance and compassion.

:26:52. > :26:54.Or you can turn inward to isolation, division and hate.

:26:55. > :27:00.One more MP from the other parties makes no real difference.

:27:01. > :27:04.But more Green MPs would be truly transformative.

:27:05. > :27:07.On June 8th, I urge you - don't look back.

:27:08. > :27:09.Choose what kind of future you really want.

:27:10. > :27:25.And together, let's build a caring and a more confident Britain.

:27:26. > :27:30.Tonight, we have seen the real choice facing our country, between a

:27:31. > :27:34.Labour government and a Conservative government. This election will

:27:35. > :27:37.decide whether young people will be saddled with debt or freed from it,

:27:38. > :27:42.whether we invest in schools and social care, or they continue to be

:27:43. > :27:46.cut, whether older people get the dignity they deserve or see their

:27:47. > :27:48.incomes fall. On the 8th of June, you have the power to decide. Vote

:27:49. > :27:55.Labour, for the many, not the few. The deputy leader of

:27:56. > :27:57.the SNP, Angus Robertson. In this debate, you've heard

:27:58. > :28:00.different views about the kind For those watching in England,

:28:01. > :28:03.Wales and Northern Ireland, the SNP will always work with others

:28:04. > :28:06.who share our belief in fairness and of an outward

:28:07. > :28:08.looking, welcoming society. Now, more than ever,

:28:09. > :28:11.we need a strong opposition to hold The SNP will be that

:28:12. > :28:14.strong voice for Scotland. And our pledge is this -

:28:15. > :28:17.to work every day to make Scotland the very

:28:18. > :28:21.best country it can be. Tonight, you've heard that

:28:22. > :28:28.Plaid Cymru is the only party putting Wales on the agenda

:28:29. > :28:31.during this election. But our MPs will play their part

:28:32. > :28:37.for the whole of the UK. We will stand up for justice

:28:38. > :28:40.and fair play on pensions, on social care, and for our

:28:41. > :28:43.cash-starved public services. So, I urge people back home

:28:44. > :28:45.to give us the mandate Don't let our country be

:28:46. > :28:59.invisible in Parliament. Tim Farron, leader of

:29:00. > :29:04.the Liberal Democrats. I will give you the final say

:29:05. > :29:08.over the Brexit deal. I will put a penny

:29:09. > :29:11.on income tax for the NHS. And I will stand up

:29:12. > :29:13.to the Conservatives over the dementia tax

:29:14. > :29:15.and everything else. The Prime Minister

:29:16. > :29:21.is not here tonight. In fact, Bake Off

:29:22. > :29:27.is on BBC Two next. You are not worth

:29:28. > :29:32.Theresa May's time. And for the final closing

:29:33. > :29:37.statement this evening, for the Conservatives,

:29:38. > :29:42.Amber Rudd. You've heard the squabbling

:29:43. > :29:53.and discord of disagreement You've seen the coalition

:29:54. > :29:56.of chaos in action. But in the quiet of the polling

:29:57. > :29:59.booth, you have a clear choice. A vote for anyone other

:30:00. > :30:02.than Theresa May is a vote for Our government needs to be

:30:03. > :30:06.at its strongest to take us through Brexit - it is only

:30:07. > :30:21.Theresa May that can There is going to be live reaction

:30:22. > :30:24.tonight on the BBC News Channel to the debate. And there will be a

:30:25. > :30:28.special question time from York later in the week. I would like to

:30:29. > :30:32.thank our audience, especially those whose questions were used tonight,

:30:33. > :30:36.and to all of you watching at home, and indeed to the seven politicians

:30:37. > :31:05.who took part tonight. From all of us here, goodbye.

:31:06. > :31:12.I've had enough spin. Fake news.