Live with Huw Edwards

:00:00. > :00:08.Polling day is a week tomorrow, and this is our last opportunity

:00:09. > :00:10.to bring our leading politicians together to test their

:00:11. > :00:44.Stand-by for the BBC Wales leaders debate 2016.

:00:45. > :00:50.A warm welcome to St David's Hall in Cardiff for a special live

:00:51. > :00:53.edition of The Wales Report, and a welcome to viewers

:00:54. > :01:00.across the UK watching on the BBC News Channel.

:01:01. > :01:03.This is where we'll be spending the next 90 minutes testing

:01:04. > :01:06.the claims and pledges of six political parties in Wales.

:01:07. > :01:09.Tonight we'll be considering some of the key areas controlled

:01:10. > :01:11.by the National Assembly, the things many of you will be

:01:12. > :01:14.voting on - the health service, jobs and education.

:01:15. > :01:18.Joining us tonight are the leaders of the six parties in Wales -

:01:19. > :01:20.Carwyn Jones for Labour, Alice Hooker-Stroud

:01:21. > :01:25.for the Green Party, Nathan Gill for Ukip,

:01:26. > :01:28.for Plaid Cymru we have Leanne Wood, Andrew RT Davies

:01:29. > :01:31.for the Conservatives, and we have Kirsty Williams

:01:32. > :01:57.I am adding my welcome, thank you for joining us.

:01:58. > :02:00.We have a specially-selected studio audience - they reflect different

:02:01. > :02:02.opinions and are drawn from different parts of Wales.

:02:03. > :02:03.They will be providing the questions.

:02:04. > :02:06.Each of our politicians will have time to answer before we open

:02:07. > :02:12.And those of you watching at home or online can get involved

:02:13. > :02:16.in the discussion - visit our live page on the BBC Wales website

:02:17. > :02:21.and get involved on social media, the hashtag is #BBCWalesDebate.

:02:22. > :02:24.We're going to start with an opening statement of up to one minute

:02:25. > :02:32.This is their opportunity to set out the broad themes of their campaign -

:02:33. > :02:46.We drew lots to decide the order and to eliminate any doubt

:02:47. > :02:48.about timings we'll have a clock on screen so that everyone

:02:49. > :02:54.First is Alice Hooker-Stroud for the Green Party.

:02:55. > :03:01.To create a sustainable and fair future in Wales, we need Green

:03:02. > :03:08.voices in the Senedd. We will bring new ideas and fresh thinking to our

:03:09. > :03:12.Assembly. We will make sure we all have access to a warm, affordable

:03:13. > :03:16.home. We will establish a clean energy economy, fit for the future

:03:17. > :03:22.of Wales, and protect our public services across the country. We will

:03:23. > :03:27.make sure that Welsh government delivers for us all, no matter where

:03:28. > :03:32.we live, or who we are. In Westminster, Scotland, Ireland and

:03:33. > :03:36.the EU, elected Greens have punched well above their weight. With seats

:03:37. > :03:41.in the Senedd, we will punch well above our weight here in Wales. On

:03:42. > :03:46.the regional ballot, in the Assembly election, you can vote for what you

:03:47. > :03:50.believe in. If you believe in a sustainable and fair future for

:03:51. > :03:59.Wales, give your regional vote to the Wales Green Party. Thank you.

:04:00. > :04:08.Thank you for opening business. Carwyn Jones is next. Good evening.

:04:09. > :04:13.Tonight in Wales, NHS staff are at work, doing what we know they always

:04:14. > :04:17.do, going the extra mile, covering shifts, not just treating people,

:04:18. > :04:20.but caring for people as well. Tonight in England, thousands of

:04:21. > :04:24.junior doctors are walking home from picket lines, outside hospitals that

:04:25. > :04:27.they normally staff, hospitals that rely on them and hospitals that the

:04:28. > :04:39.junior doctors love working in. If there is a greater contrast between

:04:40. > :04:41.what Labour was doing in Wales and what the Tories are doing in

:04:42. > :04:43.England, I can't think of one. There are still challenges facing the

:04:44. > :04:46.Welsh NHS. Unlike the Tories and Plaid Cymru, we will not say

:04:47. > :04:49.distaff, you have to work harder to pay for cuts. We already know they

:04:50. > :04:51.are under pressure. Unlike them, will not have wholesale

:04:52. > :04:55.reorganisation, we will not take away decision-making from doctors in

:04:56. > :04:59.the north of Wales and give it to bureaucrats in Cardiff. The NHS is

:05:00. > :05:03.on the ballot paper in this election. Safe, sustainable health

:05:04. > :05:06.services, available when needed. That is what I will be striving for,

:05:07. > :05:10.with your support that is exactly what we will do.

:05:11. > :05:23.Across Wales, something exciting is happening. The gap is closing

:05:24. > :05:28.between the party that has been leading the Welsh government for 17

:05:29. > :05:32.years and the party of Wales. The Tories have been pushed into third

:05:33. > :05:37.place. The election next week is a two horse race between Plaid Cymru

:05:38. > :05:43.and the party that has dominated Welsh politics for a century. They

:05:44. > :05:48.have had their chance to turn around the economy. To end the inequalities

:05:49. > :05:54.in health and education, between Wales and the rest of the UK. Their

:05:55. > :05:58.time is up. We all know that this is not as good as it gets for this

:05:59. > :06:05.country. If you agree with me that it is time for change, then vote for

:06:06. > :06:09.it. Vote for hope. A vote for the most ambitious programme of

:06:10. > :06:15.government. Vote for vision, vote for confidence. We have ten days to

:06:16. > :06:20.go before you can take the opportunity to back our cancer

:06:21. > :06:25.contract, our plan for an extra 1000 doctors, 5000 nurses, free social

:06:26. > :06:30.care, for excellence in teaching and our blueprint to turn around the

:06:31. > :06:32.Welsh economy. Back Plaid Cymru for the change Wales needs. Thank you

:06:33. > :06:49.very much. Thank you. Next week, you have the

:06:50. > :06:54.opportunity to vote. Now you have the opportunity to put a fresh, new

:06:55. > :06:59.party into the Assembly. Without a Ukip, we would not be having a

:07:00. > :07:10.referendum on our EU membership in June. Without Ukip, policies on

:07:11. > :07:13.immigration would still be a taboo to talk about. We have already

:07:14. > :07:17.managed to change things without actually having people elected here,

:07:18. > :07:20.in Westminster and in the Assembly. We have punched well above our

:07:21. > :07:24.weight as a party. When we get into the Assembly, we will be able to do

:07:25. > :07:31.that, and be your voice, which has been so lacking. You know in your

:07:32. > :07:36.heart that voting the same old way will not change anything here in

:07:37. > :07:43.Wales. This is your chance to shake things up, pull the other parties to

:07:44. > :07:50.account, and be part of a change that Wales deserves. Thank you.

:07:51. > :07:55.Next for the Liberal Democrats, Kirsty Williams.

:07:56. > :08:05.Good evening. You have told me you want smaller class sizes for your

:08:06. > :08:11.children. You want dignified care from our NHS. You just want the

:08:12. > :08:15.opportunity to get on in life. I have listened, and my party, the

:08:16. > :08:21.Welsh Liberal Democrats, has listened. Our priorities are your

:08:22. > :08:25.priorities. We will cut class sizes. We will put more nurses into our

:08:26. > :08:30.community. We will create an opportunity economy that supports

:08:31. > :08:37.Wales's small businesses and ensures that everyone has a home of their

:08:38. > :08:41.own. Remember, we were the only party that voted against the unfair

:08:42. > :08:46.?10,000 pay rise for Assembly Members, because we know it is time

:08:47. > :08:51.to do things differently, it is time for somebody to stand for people.

:08:52. > :08:57.So, this time, support the Welsh Liberal Democrats and help us

:08:58. > :09:03.deliver a Wales that will work for you.

:09:04. > :09:08.And finally Andrew RT Davies for the Conservatives.

:09:09. > :09:16.Good evening. It is a real privilege to be here tonight. I have a very

:09:17. > :09:20.simple message. We can carry on with business as usual for the next five

:09:21. > :09:24.years, or we can vote next week to secure real change, for you, your

:09:25. > :09:29.family and your community. We can't carry on with business as usual. It

:09:30. > :09:34.has seen a lazy Labour Government run things since the dawn of

:09:35. > :09:38.devolution. If you want to protect NHS spending, have real terms

:09:39. > :09:42.increases, if you want decent quality jobs, with decent take-home

:09:43. > :09:47.pay, excellence in education, security and dignity in old age, you

:09:48. > :09:52.need to vote Welsh Conservative next Thursday. Labour are only one vote

:09:53. > :09:57.away from losing the control of the Senedd. There is everything to vote

:09:58. > :10:01.for next Thursday. If you want to secure a better, brighter future for

:10:02. > :10:06.you, your family and your community, then you need to vote Welsh

:10:07. > :10:12.Conservative. You are the bosses, you are in charge. Let's vote to

:10:13. > :10:20.make this happen. Thank you very much. Six opening statements. You

:10:21. > :10:26.have covered a range of things already. I think the sensible thing

:10:27. > :10:31.is for us to start with health. It is such a big issue. Carwyn Jones

:10:32. > :10:34.referred to sell the headlines recently to do with junior doctors

:10:35. > :10:37.in England, but there are many other issues here as well.

:10:38. > :10:39.Onto our first question of the evening.

:10:40. > :10:44.It's from Dr Ata Mazz, a paediatric consultant.

:10:45. > :10:51.Your question first of all, and then, to explain to you, this is

:10:52. > :10:55.where I needed to cooperate, I will take concise answers. I will start

:10:56. > :10:59.with Kirsty and we will work our way down. On the next question, we will

:11:00. > :11:05.start with Andrew and work our way around, before we ask for comments

:11:06. > :11:09.from the audience. Your question? What specific steps will you take if

:11:10. > :11:15.you come in to the government to ensure the pressure on hospitals is

:11:16. > :11:19.relieved and the NHS is sustainable for the future? Before you answer,

:11:20. > :11:24.given that you are someone with hands-on experience, if you were to

:11:25. > :11:28.ask people in practical terms for some changes, what would be at the

:11:29. > :11:35.top of your list, in the NHS in Wales? The A waiting times, GP

:11:36. > :11:43.waiting times and referral patterns, that would be on top of my priority

:11:44. > :11:46.list. When you talk about relieving pressure, you are talking

:11:47. > :11:52.principally about waiting times in those areas? I am, yes. Kirsty?

:11:53. > :11:56.Thank you. Thank you for the question. One of the ways we can

:11:57. > :12:00.help reduce pressure in A department is making sure we get the

:12:01. > :12:04.family doctor system right in Wales. Often people go to A because it is

:12:05. > :12:17.the only part of the NHS open for them. That is why we want to create

:12:18. > :12:20.an access to GP fund, to allow GP surgeries to employ more staff in

:12:21. > :12:22.the primary care team, to allow them to see more patients. How much money

:12:23. > :12:25.in that fund, to illustrate? We want to start with ?10 million per year.

:12:26. > :12:29.Would that make a big difference? We could have a GP that currently

:12:30. > :12:34.spends an afternoon doing medical reviews, if he could have a

:12:35. > :12:39.pharmacist doing that, he could use that afternoon to see patients. We

:12:40. > :12:42.also need more staff. I have been championing nurses and hospital

:12:43. > :12:45.wards. We need to pass that law. I want to see that extended to the

:12:46. > :12:50.community. We also need to address the issue of mental health in Wales.

:12:51. > :12:53.Many people in Wales who suffer from a mental health problem do not have

:12:54. > :12:56.access to the services they need. We want to create parity between

:12:57. > :13:01.physical and mental health, so they are treated equally, the same. More

:13:02. > :13:13.importantly than anything, I want to take politics out of our NHS.

:13:14. > :13:16.People's health is too important. If we are to create a sustainable NHS

:13:17. > :13:18.for the future, we need to stop arguing, sit around the table with

:13:19. > :13:21.professionals like you, and the patients of Wales, to design a

:13:22. > :13:22.service that will be sustainable and deliver the first-class health care

:13:23. > :13:31.we all deserve. APPLAUSE Thanks. There were three key ideas

:13:32. > :13:38.there. Taking politics out is an interesting one to think about. Our

:13:39. > :13:42.commitment is to protect the NHS budget, commissioners of NHS

:13:43. > :13:45.services need to know that they have the resources for the service. That

:13:46. > :13:48.would run like the way through the five years of the whole Assembly, so

:13:49. > :13:54.different from the last five years, at the start of the Assembly, there

:13:55. > :13:58.were devastating cuts. In the first year, they took one ?140 million

:13:59. > :14:04.out. You have to make sure the resources can be conditioned. Then

:14:05. > :14:07.you move into what services you want to recommission. We would not have a

:14:08. > :14:11.wholesale reorganisation of the Health Service. I don't think the

:14:12. > :14:15.Health Service needs that, it needs it like a hole in their head. We

:14:16. > :14:19.have had two reorganisations already, it will not be third time

:14:20. > :14:23.lucky. What we also need to do is tackled the four big killers,

:14:24. > :14:27.dementia, stroke, cardiac and cancer, to make sure people are more

:14:28. > :14:31.aware of the responsibilities that they need to take themselves, so

:14:32. > :14:35.that we can, slowly but surely, increase the public health of Wales.

:14:36. > :14:41.At the moment, demand is spiralling out of control. We would also reopen

:14:42. > :14:45.minor injury units to take the pressure off A departments. Above

:14:46. > :14:48.all, we would work with the health boards, importantly, to retain

:14:49. > :14:53.staff, as well as recruiting. There was a lot of focus on recruiting

:14:54. > :14:56.staff, rightly so, the retention of community staff and of staff across

:14:57. > :15:01.the Health Service in Wales is a huge issue. If we haven't got that

:15:02. > :15:04.resource dedicated staff, to a professional standard, how can

:15:05. > :15:08.people have the treatment? One in seven people are on a waiting list

:15:09. > :15:11.in Wales, we can't afford to happen again in the next five years because

:15:12. > :15:14.they have doubled over the last five years.

:15:15. > :15:23.Thank you. Several points, I would like to come back to some of the

:15:24. > :15:28.spending things. Leanne? In principle, Plaid Cymru believes in a

:15:29. > :15:33.free and public health service. We want an opportunity to run the

:15:34. > :15:38.health service in Wales, Labour has run it down through their programme

:15:39. > :15:43.of centralisation. Don't forget, we have seen Labour politicians

:15:44. > :15:46.protesting outside hospitals at the Labour Government's Hospital

:15:47. > :15:51.centralisation plans. We know that the Tories would sell it off, as

:15:52. > :15:56.they are in England. It is not unusual in some places in Wales to

:15:57. > :16:01.wait three or four macro weeks for a GP appointment. A weights have

:16:02. > :16:08.recently in reported to be their worst ever. -- A waiting times. It

:16:09. > :16:12.is about the stuff, for me. Plaid Cymru wants to invest in recruitment

:16:13. > :16:20.and training of extra. Ozen notices, but also in the social care system,

:16:21. > :16:25.ending that historical knowledge -- anomaly where some care is free and

:16:26. > :16:29.the rest has to be paid for. Investing in staff is key to cutting

:16:30. > :16:34.down waiting times. Thank you, Leanne. Thank you for

:16:35. > :16:40.those points. I am sure there will be responses when I come to you.

:16:41. > :16:45.Nathan, and an appeal, concise. We believe strongly in an NHS that is

:16:46. > :16:50.free at the point of delivery, free for all of us, and NHS that

:16:51. > :16:55.basically fulfils the needs that we have. I, like you, depend on the

:16:56. > :17:01.NHS. I have a condition in which, if I did not use the NHS almost daily,

:17:02. > :17:07.I would be in big trouble. I know that 80% of the work done in the NHS

:17:08. > :17:12.is by GPs, yet they get 20% of the budget, roughly. We need to support

:17:13. > :17:18.them, to insure that we have enough. Currently we only have 136 new GPs

:17:19. > :17:24.coming into circulation in Wales, we need at least 200 year being trained

:17:25. > :17:31.up. Or importantly, concisely, to finish, we completely and utterly

:17:32. > :17:36.oppose the transatlantic trade and investment partnership, which if it

:17:37. > :17:40.goes ahead, will see the privatisation of our NHS. We are the

:17:41. > :17:44.only party that has opposed it all the way through, and the only way

:17:45. > :17:50.you can fully oppose it, hang on, the only way you can fully oppose it

:17:51. > :17:54.is by leaving the EU on the 23rd of June.

:17:55. > :17:58.Thank you. I am bad to say this, aren't I? We will be back here in a

:17:59. > :18:03.few weeks' time and having a referendum debate -- I am bound to

:18:04. > :18:08.say this. I know there will be references as we go along... It is

:18:09. > :18:14.relevant to the NHS. I am not denying that, but let's focus

:18:15. > :18:17.precisely on these issues. Alice? Focusing precisely on the

:18:18. > :18:22.Assembly's whoa, I would like to take it a step back, stepping back

:18:23. > :18:27.from hospitals to GPs, transferring care that way. I would like to take

:18:28. > :18:31.a step further back and say that we need to be looking at creating a

:18:32. > :18:36.healthy society. Making sure people have access to health care when they

:18:37. > :18:40.needed, not just free at the point of use but across Wales, in rural

:18:41. > :18:45.areas as well as urban areas is very important. We need to look at the

:18:46. > :18:47.health of our society. For me, that means looking at things from the

:18:48. > :18:53.perspective of Public health, making sure we have warm, affordable homes

:18:54. > :18:57.that make sure people don't get ill, making sure we have secure

:18:58. > :19:01.employment for people so they don't have such issues, perhaps, with

:19:02. > :19:05.anxiety which leads to mental health problems. We need to make sure we

:19:06. > :19:08.have safe cycling and walking routes around communities and in between

:19:09. > :19:12.schools and where people live so that they can have a more active

:19:13. > :19:16.life. This all brings together a picture of a healthier society in

:19:17. > :19:22.Wales, tackling the root cause before going into the NHS system,

:19:23. > :19:27.before we require that health care. Last point? Last point. When we do

:19:28. > :19:31.talk about health care, we need to be careful about the targets we are

:19:32. > :19:37.setting. On waiting times, obviously we had to improve them in Wales, it

:19:38. > :19:40.is the support required. Labour has a history of publishing lofty

:19:41. > :19:45.legislation but not giving anyone resources to deliver. It is about

:19:46. > :19:48.giving people fair wages, good working conditions, enough support

:19:49. > :19:54.staff, ongoing training through their career in the NHS. Thank you,

:19:55. > :20:02.you make several points, thank you. If I may, for viewers as well, the

:20:03. > :20:06.question was about relieving pressure, and our colleagues Doctor

:20:07. > :20:10.said it is all about relieving pressure in A waiting times and GP

:20:11. > :20:14.waiting times. Some of your ministers have been on the defensive

:20:15. > :20:20.in those areas, what is your message tonight? One issue was money, in

:20:21. > :20:25.2011 we spent 42% of budget on health, it is now 46%. We have more

:20:26. > :20:30.GPs per head than England and are about on a par with Scotland. It is

:20:31. > :20:35.not all about diverting pressure on to GPs and doctors. We need to make

:20:36. > :20:38.that people get the right treatment at the right place at the right

:20:39. > :20:42.time. There are models in Wales where there are GPs in a building,

:20:43. > :20:47.community pharmacists, occupational Herath -- occupational health

:20:48. > :20:50.therapists, physiotherapists. For some people a pharmacist or GP

:20:51. > :20:56.practice nurses the first point of call, which relieves the pressure on

:20:57. > :21:01.GPs and A, letting people go to the right person at the right time

:21:02. > :21:05.and health centres. Are you disappointed on your progress with

:21:06. > :21:09.A waiting times, for example? It is a challenge in Wales and

:21:10. > :21:14.elsewhere, England has just published its worst figures. What

:21:15. > :21:19.has it got to do with England? It is important that we take pressure of

:21:20. > :21:21.A It has gone up by 7% every year in the last few years, you can't

:21:22. > :21:37.expect to meet those challenges just by pouring money in.

:21:38. > :21:40.You need to make sure some people do not go to A in the first place.

:21:41. > :21:42.Many people who go are elderly, we have introduced an intermediate care

:21:43. > :21:46.fund which helps people to get the care they need at home so they do

:21:47. > :21:48.not get into a situation where they have to go to A Taking pressure

:21:49. > :21:50.from hospitals and general practitioners is important.

:21:51. > :21:56.De Vos back to the question, if I may, then we will take comments. --

:21:57. > :22:00.back to the question. You have heard six rather different responses, what

:22:01. > :22:04.would you pick out something that you feel to be relevant and helpful

:22:05. > :22:10.and something which may be less relevant and less helpful? That is

:22:11. > :22:21.tricky. The Pogba Plaid Cymru leader made was closer to my -- the point

:22:22. > :22:25.of the Plaid Cymru leader made was closer to my heart. The Labour

:22:26. > :22:31.minister has more experience, but it is not working and need to go

:22:32. > :22:34.further. What would you do to alleviate waiting times in A, is

:22:35. > :22:40.the system not working efficiently or does there need to be just more

:22:41. > :22:46.investment? There has to be change. The problems that need dealing with

:22:47. > :22:51.outside A should be dealt with that said A There should be more

:22:52. > :22:57.you active slots made available for people so they do not have to go to

:22:58. > :23:02.A Thank you. Concise comments, my friends? The gentleman with the

:23:03. > :23:09.glasses and the pullover, then I will be on this side, the lady with

:23:10. > :23:15.a blue dress and the black hair. Yes, sir? In 2009 we had a

:23:16. > :23:20.reorganisation of the health boards, 22 down to seven or eight. The

:23:21. > :23:25.largest of those, Betsi Cadwaladr, is in special measures. What good

:23:26. > :23:33.has that done for us? Last week I went to my GP. He referred me for an

:23:34. > :23:38.x-ray. The same afternoon I had the x-ray in a hospital which is fitter

:23:39. > :23:45.than 19 centuries rather than the 21st. -- fit for the 19th-century

:23:46. > :23:49.rather than the 21st. I thought it was an excellent service, then I was

:23:50. > :23:54.told that the x-ray would be returned in three to four weeks.

:23:55. > :23:59.What are they doing? It is an issue of management. Who will tackle the

:24:00. > :24:03.management? Is the management issue, for you, the one with Betsi

:24:04. > :24:07.Cadwaladr as well? Presumably they changed it to improve the management

:24:08. > :24:12.and it has not. I would like to ask a treatment

:24:13. > :24:16.concerning the treatment of cancer patients in Wales. At the moment,

:24:17. > :24:21.Bevan, standing in Queen Street, will be hanging his head in shame at

:24:22. > :24:24.the way that cancer patients are given treatment in Wales. We are

:24:25. > :24:28.lagging behind England, there are drug treats its you can have across

:24:29. > :24:32.the border which you cannot have in this country. There are people in

:24:33. > :24:36.bed right now who are ill and would be a lot better off if they were in

:24:37. > :24:40.England. When I voted for devolution, which I did, and was

:24:41. > :24:48.proud to do, I did not expect to have second-rate health care in this

:24:49. > :24:54.country... Welsh macro -- SPEAKS IN WELSH. What will you do to sort this

:24:55. > :25:01.out? APPLAUSE

:25:02. > :25:04.Over the years lots of people have come forward to talk about the

:25:05. > :25:10.availability of drugs, weather there should be a Cancer Drugs Fund, that

:25:11. > :25:13.is a big issue, what is your direct answer?

:25:14. > :25:16.This is not the standard of care that cancer patients deserve in

:25:17. > :25:21.Wales? You will get cancer treatment more quickly and Wales, all the

:25:22. > :25:24.figures show that, you get access to approved cancer drugs more quickly

:25:25. > :25:28.in Wales. You are more likely to be seen within target when it comes to

:25:29. > :25:34.getting that treatment. A Cancer Drugs Fund is finished in England,

:25:35. > :25:41.it ended because it did not work. That is not the case... It is the

:25:42. > :25:45.case. ?8 million will provide funding for life-threatening

:25:46. > :25:50.conditions. Cancer is important, I know full well in my own family that

:25:51. > :25:53.it kills, but there are other life-threatening conditions. Once

:25:54. > :25:59.those drugs are approved, and the drugs and treatments are rolled out,

:26:00. > :26:03.it will enter postcode lottery. The Cancer Drugs Fund has worked in

:26:04. > :26:07.England, it was only time-limited. They are bringing forward new

:26:08. > :26:11.proposals. Patients have gone from Wales to include to get a postcode

:26:12. > :26:16.to get the treatments, as the lady identified. It is a tough nut in

:26:17. > :26:22.clap, -- tough nut to crack, one in three of us will have an episode of

:26:23. > :26:25.cancer, going down to one in two. We have championed for cancer drugs to

:26:26. > :26:29.be available in Wales, we want to extend that to a cancer treat them

:26:30. > :26:34.to plan right from diagnostics to drug availability, Darren Tian ?100

:26:35. > :26:38.million over five years. You cannot brush it under the carpet, you have

:26:39. > :26:47.not made the Krugman said you have been a charge for 17 years. Kirsty?

:26:48. > :26:52.-- you have not made improvements and you have been a charge for 17

:26:53. > :26:56.years. We have had to fight tooth and nail to establish a health

:26:57. > :26:59.technology fund so that cancer patients can have the up to date

:27:00. > :27:03.radiotherapy techniques which are commonplace in England, patients in

:27:04. > :27:06.Wales were not getting. There are cancer surgical techniques not being

:27:07. > :27:13.delivered in Wales. I know a family that was left to beg, beg, for their

:27:14. > :27:18.36-year-old son, a father of two, to get the cancer operation that he

:27:19. > :27:21.needed. It should not be who shout the loudest, it should be a right

:27:22. > :27:26.for every Walsh patient. Reorganisation does not fix things,

:27:27. > :27:31.it takes managers' eyes off the ball. We need the rental is focus of

:27:32. > :27:35.service delivery, that this mean the Plaid Cymru plans of handing over

:27:36. > :27:38.all our hospitals to be run by Cardiff. That is a disaster in rural

:27:39. > :27:52.Wales. Andrew says he does not want reorganisation, but he

:27:53. > :27:55.wants to put a politician in charge of each health board. We do not need

:27:56. > :27:57.a reorganisation, it is like the hole in the head. We don't need a

:27:58. > :27:59.politician... We would not support Labour, would you support Labour

:28:00. > :28:02.like you did in the last Assembly? We need less politics in the Welsh

:28:03. > :28:07.NHS, not more. APPLAUSE

:28:08. > :28:11.LeAnn...? I want the response, but given we

:28:12. > :28:16.have talked about reorganisation, you want one health board for all of

:28:17. > :28:21.Wales? We recognise that the health service at the moment is not

:28:22. > :28:24.working. There needs to be a much closer relationship between the

:28:25. > :28:28.health service and the social care services, and all the parties agreed

:28:29. > :28:33.that a health and social services need to be integrated, but Plaid

:28:34. > :28:39.Cymru is the only party with a concrete plan to do exactly that. I

:28:40. > :28:46.would like to answer the question put about cancer specifically. Just

:28:47. > :28:51.the week before last I met a campaigner up in Betsi Cadwaladr. He

:28:52. > :28:55.has had to move to England for treatment for cancer. It is an

:28:56. > :29:00.absolute scandal that patients in Wales do not get the same level of

:29:01. > :29:07.treatment as patient is in other parts of the UK. But there are big

:29:08. > :29:11.resource issues? Yes, but it is a question of priorities. The First

:29:12. > :29:17.Minister is incomplete denial about this being a problem. Every time we

:29:18. > :29:22.question him in the Assembly, he is in denial. There is a postcode

:29:23. > :29:26.lottery for drugs in Wales. He does not want to end that postcode

:29:27. > :29:31.lottery, Plaid Cymru does. In the assembly Plaid Cymru has

:29:32. > :29:36.voted against the Cancer Drugs Fund for Wales, and have supported Labour

:29:37. > :29:43.motions that have cut the cancer budget. That is not fair.

:29:44. > :29:50.The cancer drug fund put forward by the Tories is the same one as the

:29:51. > :29:58.one in England. Ours looks at treatment of other diseases as well,

:29:59. > :30:06.you are not comparing like-for-like. Not if you have hepatitis C. Hang on

:30:07. > :30:12.a second, guys. Need a quality for all patients. Nobody gets it without

:30:13. > :30:16.equality. It is not going to work if we talk across each other. First

:30:17. > :30:20.Minister, you have been accused of being in denial. I am going to take

:30:21. > :30:25.some more questions on health, as long as you promise to be concise. I

:30:26. > :30:28.have explained how to end the postcode lottery, through the new

:30:29. > :30:31.treatment and we are proposing. I have sat on the Assembly for five

:30:32. > :30:36.years. Andrew talks about budgets, he watched the budget being cut by

:30:37. > :30:41.10% by his own party and said absolutely nothing at all about it.

:30:42. > :30:44.I take it with a huge pinch of salt, what he says about not cutting

:30:45. > :30:48.budgets. Leanne makes the point that she wants to take over government to

:30:49. > :30:53.run health, but then she would just handed over to a giant quango. It

:30:54. > :30:56.would sit there, running the Health Service from Cardiff, you would

:30:57. > :31:01.abdicate responsibility for running the Health Service. I would rather

:31:02. > :31:09.spend money on patients, rather than that. We want the health minister to

:31:10. > :31:13.be responsible for health. We want the government back to take

:31:14. > :31:17.responsibility. So why are you creating a giant quango? It's not a

:31:18. > :31:22.condo, it is democratic responsibility. Where would it be

:31:23. > :31:33.based? It is the NHS, all over Wales! It would be based in Cardiff,

:31:34. > :31:37.wouldn't it? That was a direct accusation about is sitting by and

:31:38. > :31:42.not protecting the budget. We were left a terrible financial legacy by

:31:43. > :31:45.Labour in 2010. They took a conscious, political decision to cut

:31:46. > :31:49.health spending. They have been in control for 17 years, waiting times

:31:50. > :31:54.have doubled. We can't have another five years of that. Just to make it

:31:55. > :32:00.clear, I am going to take a few more comments on health and then move the

:32:01. > :32:06.economy. I want the young gentleman at the back, with his hand up, him.

:32:07. > :32:11.And the gentleman with the beard, if I can say that? Right at the back,

:32:12. > :32:15.the lady with glasses. And the gentleman there, with the very

:32:16. > :32:21.distinguished white beard. OK, keep it concise. The original question

:32:22. > :32:25.was about sustainability and spending on temporary staff in the

:32:26. > :32:29.NHS has gone up 5 million over the course of this Welsh government. How

:32:30. > :32:34.is that sustainable? How can we move towards bringing more staff into the

:32:35. > :32:41.NHS on a full-time basis, rather than temporary. That is certainly a

:32:42. > :32:45.challenge. Next? If Andrew Arty Davies won and became First

:32:46. > :32:50.Minister, would he raise money for the NHS by imposing contracts on

:32:51. > :33:02.valuable doctors and workers? No. He said no, thank you. Leanne said, and

:33:03. > :33:05.also Carwyn, about having funding cut, but what about the money we

:33:06. > :33:12.spend on free prescriptions for people that may not necessarily need

:33:13. > :33:20.them? Thank you very much. Yes, sir, concise? Health, like education, is

:33:21. > :33:25.being used as a political football. We put these people in the Assembly

:33:26. > :33:28.to give us good National Health Service. Why in God 's name can't

:33:29. > :33:37.they work together and provide a service that is fit for purpose?

:33:38. > :33:40.Thank you very much. I am apologising right now, I think you

:33:41. > :33:45.realise we could do 90 minutes on health, easily. But we have lots of

:33:46. > :33:49.other big things to talk about. Where is Neil Woodcock? Thank you. I

:33:50. > :33:53.know you are a steelworker. Thank you for coming along tonight.

:33:54. > :33:58.Clearly, your industry has been right up there in the headlines, not

:33:59. > :34:06.just here in Wales, in the UK, but internationally. Your question,

:34:07. > :34:11.please? On a personal note, I am sad to see the panel has stopped wearing

:34:12. > :34:16.their Save Our Steel badges. Obviously not as close to their

:34:17. > :34:21.heart as it is to mine. With that in mind, what are the panel proposed to

:34:22. > :34:28.do to save the industry, and also to help the 750 Steelworkers losing

:34:29. > :34:34.their jobs this month? We are battling against the clock, starting

:34:35. > :34:37.with Andrew this time. A very focused answer? It is vital two

:34:38. > :34:45.governments work together at both ends of the M40 secure the security

:34:46. > :34:52.of the plans, and we don't end up with a fire sale seeing some of them

:34:53. > :34:55.shut. There is a great future for British Steel and Welsh steel. It is

:34:56. > :35:00.heartening to see the level of engagement that is going on. The

:35:01. > :35:03.government commitment of 25%, and loans being made available for

:35:04. > :35:06.successful commercial purchasers, but it also has to come with a

:35:07. > :35:14.package that makes sure we have protection for the steel industry to

:35:15. > :35:17.go, anti-dumping, and the solid work that has been done on high energy

:35:18. > :35:25.prices is continuing to make sure that its staying competitive. You

:35:26. > :35:28.did focus on the jobs that have already been lost, it is vital that

:35:29. > :35:39.we work to make a more dynamic economy and at the moment we need to

:35:40. > :35:43.create decent training opportunities are people want to train and there

:35:44. > :35:47.is not an age cap. Above all, after 17 years of Labour neglecting the

:35:48. > :35:56.economy, we have to create an economy that makes money for the

:35:57. > :35:59.people. Leanne? First of all extend my simply to yourself and your

:36:00. > :36:02.colleagues, who are going through a really difficult time. I have some

:36:03. > :36:06.understanding of how difficult that is, my father was made redundant

:36:07. > :36:11.during the miners strike. He was not directly employed in the industry,

:36:12. > :36:15.but it goes to show how it has a much wider ripple effect. Many other

:36:16. > :36:20.businesses in the supply chain will be affected as well. It makes no

:36:21. > :36:26.sense to us to import steel from other countries to use in the

:36:27. > :36:30.infrastructure projects that this country needs, the green energy

:36:31. > :36:35.projects, the public transport projects, all will require steel.

:36:36. > :36:39.The tidal lagoon. We need to be using Welsh made steel in those

:36:40. > :36:47.infrastructure projects. Plaid Cymru has been calling for the governments

:36:48. > :36:52.at both ends of the M4 to do everything possible to sustain the

:36:53. > :36:56.industry, considering all options, including taking an equity stake, or

:36:57. > :37:00.part nationalisation. I am encouraged that both governments are

:37:01. > :37:05.prepared to consider looking at that. But we were calling for this

:37:06. > :37:10.back in January. We did lose significant time in that period. But

:37:11. > :37:13.it is important now that everybody works together, polls together and

:37:14. > :37:17.does what we can to save the industry. If they could bail out the

:37:18. > :37:24.banks, they should be able to bail out our steel industry. Thank you

:37:25. > :37:28.very much. Nathan? I'm glad to hear that Leanne is going to be voting to

:37:29. > :37:32.leave the EU on the 23rd of June. Quite frankly, the reality is, and

:37:33. > :37:36.you can grow and all you want, the reality is that this is a world

:37:37. > :37:41.market, we do not control the tariffs on cheap Chinese steel. That

:37:42. > :37:47.has been given away since 1975. You are talking about Welsh steel being

:37:48. > :37:53.used in projects all over Britain and in Wales, that is against EU

:37:54. > :37:58.law. You cannot do that. Other countries do it fine! Lets be honest

:37:59. > :38:02.about it, how are we going to save steel on the 23rd of June? Vote to

:38:03. > :38:05.leave, we will lower the tariffs on energy, and make steel so that we

:38:06. > :38:11.can sell it on the world market, like what we are doing right now.

:38:12. > :38:15.You are on the referendum trail again! That is the reality, we can

:38:16. > :38:21.lie and pretend, but it is not about the ownership of Tata Steel. It is

:38:22. > :38:29.about selling the steel on the world market. Alice? I am going to

:38:30. > :38:35.directly disagree. I think it really is about the ownership. For me, the

:38:36. > :38:39.problem with Tata Steel is that Tata have absolutely no reason why they

:38:40. > :38:43.should care about the workforce and the communities where they are

:38:44. > :38:48.based. Their bottom line is always to do with the profit for

:38:49. > :38:51.shareholders. When the market sees fit, they will pick up and leave. We

:38:52. > :38:57.have seen they are willing to do that. Yes, potentially looking at

:38:58. > :39:00.nationalisation as a stopgap, or potentially a final result, in the

:39:01. > :39:05.way that the government can support the steel industry, because it is

:39:06. > :39:08.necessary for renewable technologies and infrastructure. Potentially,

:39:09. > :39:11.there are other models of ownership. In your community, you could own

:39:12. > :39:15.that planned, you could be in charge of what your own job is. The

:39:16. > :39:22.sustainability of job relies on the fact that can create an economy in

:39:23. > :39:26.Wales that can use that steel. You can have ownership over that. There

:39:27. > :39:30.is a huge opportunity in Wales to build up our renewable

:39:31. > :39:33.infrastructure, use that steel in Wales and create many more jobs

:39:34. > :39:46.across our country. Thank you, Alice. Back to the question, Carwyn

:39:47. > :39:51.Jones, what are you doing to ensure you can save these jobs if you are

:39:52. > :39:54.still in power? I grew up a few miles down the road from a

:39:55. > :40:01.steelworks, and I can't imagine porthole but without its steelworks.

:40:02. > :40:07.Is horrific -- I can't imagine Port Talbot without its steelworks. The

:40:08. > :40:10.second part of your question, what about the 750 workers, we don't know

:40:11. > :40:17.how many of those will be retirement or voluntary redundancy. We have put

:40:18. > :40:21.in an enterprise zone in Port Talbot. What needs to be done?

:40:22. > :40:24.Firstly, taking the pension liability out of the way. The UK

:40:25. > :40:27.Government have indicated they will do that. We need to make sure that

:40:28. > :40:32.energy prices drop, because they are higher than Germany and Spain, we

:40:33. > :40:35.can't expect to produce goods if our energy prices are that high. We have

:40:36. > :40:43.been telling the UK Government is for five years. Now they understand.

:40:44. > :40:47.Labour Government! The reality is, Germany and Spain have low energy

:40:48. > :40:51.prices, we have to deal with that. When it comes to tariffs, it was not

:40:52. > :40:55.the EU that voted against having tariffs, it was the UK Government.

:40:56. > :41:01.The UK caused the problem, not the EU. The EU wanted to support the

:41:02. > :41:04.steel industry. The UK Government, in fairness, understand they need to

:41:05. > :41:08.change their minds. For me, it is about saving jobs, not party

:41:09. > :41:12.political point scoring. I will work with the Tories on this, because I

:41:13. > :41:17.know that saving jobs is more important. Let's make sure we start

:41:18. > :41:21.building infrastructure, like The Lagoon, like electrification, making

:41:22. > :41:28.sure that our steel has a market, not just in the UK, but worldwide as

:41:29. > :41:35.well. A comment from Kirsty, and then from the floor? I recently went

:41:36. > :41:40.to the Tata planned in Port Talbot to meet with the union and

:41:41. > :41:43.management. There is a bright future for the blast furnaces. It can be

:41:44. > :41:49.turned into a profitable business once again and we can produce steel

:41:50. > :41:57.Pier. And we need to. It is a very foolish government and country

:41:58. > :42:01.indeed that would not save its own steel industry. We need to produce

:42:02. > :42:05.our own food, energy and steel in an uncertain world in which we live.

:42:06. > :42:09.What can we do? 750 jobs have already gone. Should there be a

:42:10. > :42:12.successful sale, and I hope that there is, there is no guarantee

:42:13. > :42:20.there will not be more job losses to follow. What can we do? We created

:42:21. > :42:24.an economic regeneration company to help the businesses in the area to

:42:25. > :42:30.develop and take on those people. We can take business rates off band and

:42:31. > :42:37.machinery. It would help Tata, but also help managers across Wales to

:42:38. > :42:39.create jobs. We do need an industrial policy, Westminster and

:42:40. > :42:44.the Welsh government. We need to build things in our country. Use the

:42:45. > :42:49.steel to build products we can sell to the rest of the world. I must

:42:50. > :42:55.say, Nathan Gill personally voted against anti-dumping measures in

:42:56. > :42:59.2014. It is all very well to come here and talk about leaving the

:43:00. > :43:02.European Union. You are in that parliament, you had a chance and you

:43:03. > :43:09.voted against anti-dumping measures. Shame on you. Shame on you.

:43:10. > :43:17.Shame on you for not doing your research properly. I was not an MEP

:43:18. > :43:24.in January 20 14. I was in July. I did not vote on it. Absolutely not.

:43:25. > :43:31.Let's be realistic about this. They are all in Lala land. If you cannot

:43:32. > :43:37.sell your steel on the world markets because you are not competitive...

:43:38. > :43:43.The market you want to cut as off from! Why are you certainly bothered

:43:44. > :43:51.about saving steel justly before an election? What about the other eight

:43:52. > :44:01.major steel and metal refineries in Wales you that close? Name three!

:44:02. > :44:05.Why is it that you and... You have your number is wrong! Comments,

:44:06. > :44:11.concise, if you please. The gentleman here in the centre, the

:44:12. > :44:15.gentleman in the front, then the gentleman with the glasses. And I am

:44:16. > :44:17.looking for one, there has to be a lady wanting to take part as well?

:44:18. > :44:27.Anyway, we will start here. The former First Minister suggested

:44:28. > :44:32.making an enterprise zone of Port Talbot. His Government tried to make

:44:33. > :44:38.an Aerospace enterprise zone in the Vale of Glamorgan. It has been an

:44:39. > :44:43.absolute failure. They all have. It created around 60 permanent job

:44:44. > :44:49.since it was involved. Waste of money in time, you are saying? Yes.

:44:50. > :44:54.And you? Any member of that panel who

:44:55. > :45:00.supports continued EU membership cannot be honest about wanting to

:45:01. > :45:07.save our steel industry, that is a fact. Thank you. Yes, you? Just

:45:08. > :45:12.making the point about political opportunism, you listen to this lot,

:45:13. > :45:17.nothing is about politics. Carwyn Jones, just jumping on the

:45:18. > :45:21.bandwagon. Tony Benn, 1978, he closed my father's steelworks.

:45:22. > :45:29.Labour do not have an unblemished record. What I go for tonne steel?

:45:30. > :45:35.What is the answer? If you listen, nothing is do with politics. -- what

:45:36. > :45:42.are your thoughts on steel? Carwyn Jones keep shifting the blame. We

:45:43. > :45:47.know it is all politics. This lady? Vista debuts, you said you wanted

:45:48. > :45:51.parties to work together, Conservative and Labour, yet I think

:45:52. > :45:56.it was yesterday, your leader in England arrived in Port Tolbert, he

:45:57. > :46:01.did not tell the First Minister, he only heard about it on Twitter, am I

:46:02. > :46:06.right in saying that? Yes, I did invite him to come to Port Talbot.

:46:07. > :46:10.But then he went into a private meeting with yourself, no cameras

:46:11. > :46:13.allowed, and in Prime Minister's Questions time he said he could not

:46:14. > :46:18.guarantee the future of the steelworks unless all parties work

:46:19. > :46:22.together, yet he did not meet with the First Minister. Thank you for

:46:23. > :46:33.making that point. Where is Ian Williams? That is you? You are

:46:34. > :46:35.getting two bites at this. That is a bit of a treat! Some of you have

:46:36. > :46:37.mentioned this, but go ahead? I'm concerned that our

:46:38. > :46:39.infrastructure and transport links What will you do to make sure Wales

:46:40. > :46:53.has the infrastructure it needs Thank you. Leanne, I am starting

:46:54. > :46:57.with you, and I really do want you to speak for about 30 seconds,

:46:58. > :47:01.otherwise we will have no time for any other comments. It is an

:47:02. > :47:07.infrastructure point, some of you have touched on it already.

:47:08. > :47:09.Infrastructure, Leanne? We want to build a national infrastructure

:47:10. > :47:14.commission planned for the whole of Wales, to make sure that spending is

:47:15. > :47:21.more even throughout the country. We want to stop the billion pounds

:47:22. > :47:27.black route and fall project -- black route M4 project, to deal with

:47:28. > :47:33.congestion in Newport we want to go for the cheaper blue route which

:47:34. > :47:37.will free up millions of pounds to spend an infrastructure in other

:47:38. > :47:41.parts of the country. The way infrastructure money is spent is

:47:42. > :47:45.very unfair at the moment, we want to equalise that to make sure that

:47:46. > :47:50.all parts of Wales benefit. I think it is fair to say that lots of the

:47:51. > :47:55.reporting has focused on Newport and the M4, which is very important, but

:47:56. > :47:59.there are big issues in North Wales with infrastructure as well?

:48:00. > :48:04.Absolutely, I am glad that Leanne agrees with us that the blue route

:48:05. > :48:06.is the better route to go for. Why will be spent ?1 billion on

:48:07. > :48:11.structure funding in the south where we have huge problems in the North,

:48:12. > :48:23.the auto macro 55 will probably know how horrendous that can be. -- the

:48:24. > :48:25.A55. The A470, why is it easier and quicker to go to England and down

:48:26. > :48:31.and across them through our beautiful country. What is the

:48:32. > :48:37.answer and what would you spend? Pounces what we will have available,

:48:38. > :48:39.not just in the South. -- ?600 million is what we will have

:48:40. > :48:50.available. If you have people coming to the

:48:51. > :48:55.country, as many as the size of Cardiff and Swansea together, they

:48:56. > :49:00.are adults, grown-ups, they need cars, they will use them, it is

:49:01. > :49:06.obvious that the chip will not be able to support them. -- the

:49:07. > :49:11.infrastructure will not be. If you added millions of extra cars every

:49:12. > :49:17.year, we will have chip problems. Unless you are building roads for

:49:18. > :49:24.that, how on earth in the world will meet... We manage? Alice? We think

:49:25. > :49:27.we need to establish a Wales wide fund for infrastructure, we already

:49:28. > :49:31.have a lot of money invested to pension funds in public authorities,

:49:32. > :49:36.such as local authorities and the wider public sector. In local public

:49:37. > :49:40.authorities we have around ?500 million invested in fossil fuel

:49:41. > :49:45.companies across the world, we could take those funds out and use them in

:49:46. > :49:50.the fund for share in Wales. In Scotland, the whole figure is

:49:51. > :49:57.probably much larger. In Scotland, there is about ?1.7 billion of local

:49:58. > :50:00.-- public sector money invested in fossil fuel companies. We could

:50:01. > :50:05.divest that and we invested in Wales. In infrastructure, transport

:50:06. > :50:09.systems, homes and energy infrastructure. There is a lot of

:50:10. > :50:13.money which we could beat you think to build a fairer and more

:50:14. > :50:18.sustainable future. -- which we could be using to build?

:50:19. > :50:20.Leanne said she wanted to build a commission, I want to build

:50:21. > :50:27.transport networks. If you look at the M4, the blue route is ?600

:50:28. > :50:30.million, not 400, it goes past hundreds of houses and will affect

:50:31. > :50:37.many people, it is not the easy option, it has four lanes, not six

:50:38. > :50:42.lanes. If we look in the north, we need a new crossing over the Menai,

:50:43. > :50:48.we have hired investment in tunnels. The Newtown bypass has been built.

:50:49. > :50:54.There have been bypass is in other areas. We need to make sure we deal

:50:55. > :50:57.with this. Also trains, we need to see a timetable for the

:50:58. > :51:01.electrification of the mainline to Swansea. We need to see the

:51:02. > :51:05.electrification of the North Wales mainline. And the Metro proposals in

:51:06. > :51:13.the south-east of Wales, Swansea, all stampers spoke transport for

:51:14. > :51:19.oral areas. -- and of course bespoke transport for rural areas.

:51:20. > :51:23.If we are to have a transport infrastructure fit for the whole of

:51:24. > :51:26.Wales, you do not blow the entire budget on one road in one section of

:51:27. > :51:31.Wales. We have to look at a fair

:51:32. > :51:35.distribution of resources. We need to look up public transport

:51:36. > :51:40.solutions, both in the south-east, and also the feasibility of opening

:51:41. > :51:45.up old railway lines such as the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line. We

:51:46. > :51:49.need to take control of bus services, re-regulate, using our new

:51:50. > :51:53.powers to re-regulate bus services so people in rural areas are not

:51:54. > :51:57.left stranded in their communities. There is a new type of

:51:58. > :52:01.infrastructure which we need to deliver on, digital infrastructure.

:52:02. > :52:05.People can't work at home, develop dismisses in other parts of Wales,

:52:06. > :52:09.they are dragged into the big cities because they do not have decent

:52:10. > :52:13.broadband and mobile phones. We need to look at infrastructure in the

:52:14. > :52:21.round, not be obsessed with one road in one part of Wales.

:52:22. > :52:26.Government has to get onto the job. After 70 years of Labour in control,

:52:27. > :52:31.they have squandered huge opportunities of convergence money.

:52:32. > :52:36.Towards the last assembly macro, the tobacco which sold off public land,

:52:37. > :52:38.which lost capital for the future Welsh Government, that is

:52:39. > :52:42.scandalous, we cannot afford another five years of that. We had to get

:52:43. > :52:48.the Digital economy right, large areas cannot compete in the 20th

:52:49. > :52:52.century economy, let alone the 21st. We have the electrification coming

:52:53. > :52:59.to South Wales, it is vital it is completed. The A55 improvements, the

:53:00. > :53:02.electrification of the valleys, making sure the electrification of

:53:03. > :53:07.North Wales happens in the next funding round. It is important to

:53:08. > :53:11.have a Government in Cardiff date working with Westminster to deliver

:53:12. > :53:15.these. Another excuses, action is required -- a Government in Cardiff

:53:16. > :53:19.Bay. Infrastructure, think about

:53:20. > :53:24.transport infrastructure, broadband and things like that? The gentleman

:53:25. > :53:31.in the white shirt at the back, then the gentleman at the front. I am

:53:32. > :53:37.looking for... Too many guys wanted to speak, I want some ladies as

:53:38. > :53:42.well. At the back, first, the white shirt? On public transport, in

:53:43. > :53:45.England there is a green bus fund for bus operators to use for

:53:46. > :53:50.alternative methods of fuel. When can... Like you have just said,

:53:51. > :53:55.action is required, when will the Westminster Government decide to

:53:56. > :53:59.invest in Wales so bus operators can run more green and efficient and

:54:00. > :54:03.less carbon monoxide buses to help people in Wales have better public

:54:04. > :54:10.transport? Live village along the back row to the lady in the middle?

:54:11. > :54:13.-- moving along. What will you do to make it easier for people with

:54:14. > :54:17.mental disabilities to travel on a bus? It can be so stressful stepping

:54:18. > :54:22.out of your front door, let alone getting on a bus or any form of

:54:23. > :54:32.public transport. Who was the other person I picked? Thank you? You have

:54:33. > :54:37.to play toll tax at the Severn Bridge, when would you cancel but,

:54:38. > :54:41.please? That is a very practical point. Car win, what are the

:54:42. > :54:46.prospects of the Severn Bridge toll disappearing? We have asked to

:54:47. > :54:50.control it, if we did, we would at least reduce it and then abolish it,

:54:51. > :54:55.it is controlled by the Department for Transport. The tolls would be

:54:56. > :54:59.set by the Department for Transport, the money is being spent on roads in

:55:00. > :55:04.England. We should have a fair share of that, our people use the bridge.

:55:05. > :55:09.The question about access to public transport is important. Kirsty is

:55:10. > :55:12.right, we will soon have powers to regulate buses, meaning it is easier

:55:13. > :55:17.to make sure that buses are more frequent, they link up with trains,

:55:18. > :55:22.not arriving five minutes afterwards, to make the experience

:55:23. > :55:25.of travel far less stressful. On a personal level, waiting for

:55:26. > :55:31.connections at Swansea station is not my favourite vividly! I hope the

:55:32. > :55:36.point has been noted. Thank you, Carwyn, and everybody.

:55:37. > :55:42.I should underline that these are not the only parties standing in

:55:43. > :55:48.this election. What we will do now for a couple of minutes, so that we

:55:49. > :55:51.represent all voices, we will hear some contributions from the other

:55:52. > :55:55.parties standing and getting their messages. Here they are.

:55:56. > :55:57.We believe that the Assembly Government, after years

:55:58. > :55:58.of continuous failure, should be abolished.

:55:59. > :56:02.At a cost of ?1.5 million a day to keep 60 AMs,

:56:03. > :56:06.the Senedd is too expensive, and it is time that we close down

:56:07. > :56:16.the Senedd and the 72 satellite offices that we run.

:56:17. > :56:22.The steel crisis underlies the need for us to have a Welsh Government

:56:23. > :56:25.and Parliament with the powers and resources necessary in order

:56:26. > :56:27.to take vital industries and services into public ownership,

:56:28. > :56:30.defying EU rules if necessary and investing in them to produce

:56:31. > :56:32.what we need - more railway links, more homes, high speed broadband

:56:33. > :56:36.to every school and local community, and to harness the enormous

:56:37. > :56:38.potential of our solar and tidal

:56:39. > :56:47.We're standing across Wales to represent the Loonies in

:56:48. > :56:53.We believe that it is important to reduce costs.

:56:54. > :56:56.To do so we are going to reduce the number of seats in the assembly

:56:57. > :57:00.from 60 to five - we'll rename it the Welsh Ensemble.

:57:01. > :57:11.We are not your average political Loonies -

:57:12. > :57:19.We do not think that they - mentality, we use our own minds. We

:57:20. > :57:22.guarantee that should we win, we will not implement any of our

:57:23. > :57:28.manifesto policies. LAUGHTER

:57:29. > :57:35.Follow that! That winds had to prize of the century award. I am very

:57:36. > :57:40.disappointed that none of my colleagues here... In the fashion

:57:41. > :57:43.stakes, you cannot compete. Those are the other parties standing in

:57:44. > :57:47.the election. We thought we would put that in at this point to reflect

:57:48. > :57:56.other views, not just the six parties with us now. We have about

:57:57. > :58:02.half an hour left, we will move on to education. I have lost count of

:58:03. > :58:06.the number of interviews I have done education standards, challenges for

:58:07. > :58:11.educations, not just in schools but in universities. It has been such a

:58:12. > :58:15.hot topic. Where is Daxa Patel? You have not put your hand up much, I am

:58:16. > :58:17.glad you are asking a question. We will have a question, followed by

:58:18. > :58:19.comments. How will you support teachers

:58:20. > :58:27.and schools to deliver a first class Thank you so much. We will

:58:28. > :58:31.concentrate on schools and then move on to higher education at about. I

:58:32. > :58:38.started with Leanne last time, Nathan? One size does not fit all, I

:58:39. > :58:43.have five children, I am fully aware. We need an education system

:58:44. > :58:47.is spoke to children and their individual needs. We needed to be

:58:48. > :58:52.aspirational for the child. We want children to be able to, when they

:58:53. > :58:55.get into class, he engaged because they are enjoying what they are

:58:56. > :59:00.learning and they feel it has a relevance to their future and their

:59:01. > :59:06.future careers. Not everybody is cut out to go to university. We need

:59:07. > :59:08.people to work in industry, manufacturing, hands-on skills. We

:59:09. > :59:14.propose bringing back from the schools to Wales, but not, as these

:59:15. > :59:19.people here will try to have you believe, 11 plus, you are

:59:20. > :59:22.categorised, but throughout the secondary education period they can

:59:23. > :59:27.continue to be tested and decide whether or not they want to be more

:59:28. > :59:32.vocational or more academic. Thank you very much. We will come to

:59:33. > :59:35.Alice next. Looking through some of the policy areas, one of the

:59:36. > :59:39.eye-catching policies I noticed, Alice, was the possibility of

:59:40. > :59:46.raising the school starting age, maybe you can address some of that?

:59:47. > :59:51.We believe that education should not be just about finding a career, it

:59:52. > :59:55.should not just be about getting on a treadmill that ends up in a job,

:59:56. > :00:00.it should be about inspiring children, it should be about making

:00:01. > :00:03.it fun to learn things, to gain knowledge. To really inspire them,

:00:04. > :00:08.to want to learn more further in life. So it was just a recognition

:00:09. > :00:13.that there is lots of research that recognises that education focused on

:00:14. > :00:17.play early in life is very good at bringing a wealth of knowledge into

:00:18. > :00:21.children very early on. I think in terms of addressing the question

:00:22. > :00:24.that was put forward, how do we support teachers and schools to

:00:25. > :00:28.deliver a first class education system in Wales, I think the first

:00:29. > :00:31.thing we need to do is really focus on the children and those teachers.

:00:32. > :00:35.To be able to deliver a good education system for those children,

:00:36. > :00:45.we do need to support those teachers. We also need to make sure

:00:46. > :00:47.that are still schools in our communities for children to attend.

:00:48. > :00:50.There are plenty of schools around Wales that are closing. Those

:00:51. > :00:56.schools are actually at the heart of the communities. When the school

:00:57. > :00:59.closes, the community for support. Regardless of debates about numbers,

:01:00. > :01:04.what is a you think they should be kept as they are? We need to protect

:01:05. > :01:07.rural schools, there are important to the communities. For example,

:01:08. > :01:10.bringing it into supporting teachers, when teachers went on

:01:11. > :01:14.strike last week in Wales, they were not going on strike because they

:01:15. > :01:17.wanted higher pay or different pensions, they were going on strike

:01:18. > :01:22.because they didn't feel they could deliver for the children. They felt

:01:23. > :01:26.that one of the new pressures that was being put on children in rural

:01:27. > :01:31.areas are additionally long bus journeys to school in the morning

:01:32. > :01:35.because of rural school closures. What we would do in the Wales Green

:01:36. > :01:41.Party is keep the rural schools open, make sure we reduce teacher

:01:42. > :01:44.workload, make sure we provide effective training for teachers

:01:45. > :01:49.throughout their careers and reduce class sizes, these are things that

:01:50. > :01:54.teachers need to provide good education for children in Wales.

:01:55. > :02:01.Thank you. You made quite a few points. Carwyn, I will ask you to

:02:02. > :02:05.respond directly. I picked up a quote from the Chief Inspector of

:02:06. > :02:08.education in Wales, once again, there is a marked contrast between

:02:09. > :02:13.the quality of teaching and learning, particularly in the best

:02:14. > :02:16.education providers and the weakest. This is not due primarily to

:02:17. > :02:20.socioeconomic factors, some of the best providers are in relatively

:02:21. > :02:25.deprived areas. The application being that this is about standards

:02:26. > :02:33.and monitoring standards, regardless of socioeconomic factors? It is

:02:34. > :02:36.about leadership. If there is weak leadership of the top of the school,

:02:37. > :02:41.the school does not function. Once we have a teacher pay and conditions

:02:42. > :02:46.devolved, we need to start working on a package for teachers. The Scots

:02:47. > :02:51.do this, we need to make sure we do this in England and Wales. I am the

:02:52. > :02:53.son of two teachers, I know what it involves. They talk to me about

:02:54. > :02:58.teaching and teaching as a profession. If we do that, we can

:02:59. > :03:01.put a package together. Also, make sure teachers are teaching in

:03:02. > :03:07.buildings fit for purpose. One of the measures of an education system,

:03:08. > :03:11.for me, is making sure in the richest and poorest areas, there is

:03:12. > :03:14.no difference. If you look up a scheme that we put in place, we

:03:15. > :03:17.provided money and support for the worst performing schools to bring

:03:18. > :03:20.them where they should be, and we have seen startling results across

:03:21. > :03:24.the whole of Wales, that is hugely important. It is also important that

:03:25. > :03:29.were children get the opportunity for a good education, they can also

:03:30. > :03:32.carry on in further education college and university. We will not

:03:33. > :03:37.scrap the allowances the Tories want to scrap. I have spoken to students

:03:38. > :03:45.and they are petrified that funding might be cut. Keeping on schools for

:03:46. > :03:49.the moment, Kirsty? Leadership is absolutely crucial, that is why it

:03:50. > :03:51.is scandalous that Labour's own education minister admitted that the

:03:52. > :03:55.Government took their eye off the ball when it came to education. We

:03:56. > :04:01.have listened to parent concerns, which is why we will cut class

:04:02. > :04:05.sizes, so teachers have the time to teach every child to the best of

:04:06. > :04:08.their ability. Over the last five years, my party has prioritised in

:04:09. > :04:13.every negotiation education spending. That is why we were able

:04:14. > :04:18.to invest in an additional ?280 million into the education of our

:04:19. > :04:22.poorest children, through the Pupil Premium. We need to do that because

:04:23. > :04:28.every child deserves a fair start in life. If we are to make our economy

:04:29. > :04:33.successful, we need to have well-qualified children leaving our

:04:34. > :04:37.schools. If a teacher has 30, 31, 32, 33 children in their class, it

:04:38. > :04:40.is nine on possible for that teacher, despite their best efforts,

:04:41. > :04:48.to give the children the individual attention they need. That is why we

:04:49. > :04:55.will cut class sizes. The target class sizes what? Down to 25,

:04:56. > :04:58.starting with infants. Andrew? The First Minister talked about

:04:59. > :05:02.leadership, it is the lack of political leadership that has put us

:05:03. > :05:06.where we are with education over the last 17 years. It was Kirsty's

:05:07. > :05:09.education minister who apologised, the First Minister said they had

:05:10. > :05:13.taken their eye off the ball on education. Sorry, kids, you're going

:05:14. > :05:17.to get left behind. That's not good enough. What we are going to do with

:05:18. > :05:27.education is funded schools directly, so the opportunity is

:05:28. > :05:29.there to spend as much of that money as possible in the classroom, make

:05:30. > :05:31.sure schools stay open, as long as they can teach the national

:05:32. > :05:33.curriculum, offer them the opportunity to run their own

:05:34. > :05:36.affairs. If the local school shots, part of the community dies. Making

:05:37. > :05:41.sure that there is parity, to support students with vocational and

:05:42. > :05:44.academic coursework. We need people with vocational qualifications, as

:05:45. > :05:48.well as academic, if we are going to have an economy fit for the 21st

:05:49. > :05:57.century that does not leave any students behind. Thank you very

:05:58. > :06:00.much. In international comparisons, Welsh schoolchildren perform worse

:06:01. > :06:07.than children in countries like Estonia, Vietnam, Ireland. I think

:06:08. > :06:15.that is a scandal, considering how well we used to perform in the past.

:06:16. > :06:20.For me, staff are key to all of this, we rely on the teachers to

:06:21. > :06:23.create the next generation of doctors, engineers, scientists. We

:06:24. > :06:30.must invest in them and encourage them and enable them to be

:06:31. > :06:35.excellent. So, Plaid Cymru will create a cradle to career education

:06:36. > :06:42.service and we have identified a number of policies to do that. One,

:06:43. > :06:46.investment in early years education, two, we want to create a world-class

:06:47. > :06:50.teaching profession and reward them accordingly. Thirdly, we want to

:06:51. > :06:54.guarantee a job or training place for everyone that is under 25 and

:06:55. > :06:58.has been out of work for more than four months, create more

:06:59. > :07:06.apprenticeship places and a debt write-off scheme for graduates.

:07:07. > :07:17.Thank you very much. Any teachers? I have heard from you once, OK, I will

:07:18. > :07:25.come to this lady first. OK. Pupils are funded through a pupil

:07:26. > :07:29.deprivation grant. And it is right that they should be. You know, the

:07:30. > :07:33.pupils that are getting free school meals should be funded. But the

:07:34. > :07:39.grant doesn't take any account at all of the working poor. What are

:07:40. > :07:43.the panel thinking about the funding? What would your response

:07:44. > :07:51.be? What would you look to see change? I think there a great

:07:52. > :07:56.variation across the counties in Wales, which is just patented and

:07:57. > :08:08.fair. There is a lack of consistency? -- patiently unfair.

:08:09. > :08:14.Any other teachers? In the middle? I would like to address the Ukip

:08:15. > :08:22.gentleman and say that it would be wonderful to put to bed at the idea

:08:23. > :08:30.of grammar schools. It is absolutely ridiculous. The children are judged

:08:31. > :08:36.at the age of 11. I said they would not be. They are judged at 11, it

:08:37. > :08:40.means boys and girls are judged equally. If you know anything about

:08:41. > :08:44.child development, you know at the age of 11 boys are behind girls.

:08:45. > :08:52.Therefore, all of the figures have to be massaged to create the results

:08:53. > :08:56.of a 50-50 split. I'm sorry, it is simple maths and knowledge of

:08:57. > :09:06.children. Which is why we would have an 11 plus, entrance exams at 11,

:09:07. > :09:12.12, 13, 15 and 16. There are always examinations. Children are always

:09:13. > :09:16.being tested in exams, always. Why put them in two different schools?

:09:17. > :09:23.We want to have schools that have excellence. It is long before my

:09:24. > :09:28.time, I am glad of that. Pushing us all into the one size fits all, if

:09:29. > :09:32.it worked, why are we behind Estonia? It doesn't work. You have

:09:33. > :09:37.been doing it for 17 years and it hasn't worked. In England, where

:09:38. > :09:41.they still have grammar schools, they are the ones where all of the

:09:42. > :09:50.parents want them to go to. People are voting with their feet. Is there

:09:51. > :09:54.a case for saying, you know, we have crossed a bridge where all schools

:09:55. > :09:57.become academies. I think it was a Labour idea originally. Do you think

:09:58. > :10:03.it is a model that would apply for Wales? It's a model that is suitable

:10:04. > :10:05.for England, but our model is allowing the opportunity for schools

:10:06. > :10:12.to be funded from the Welsh government. In England, the average

:10:13. > :10:15.is about 90%, it would free up about ?350 million in the education

:10:16. > :10:20.system. The criteria would be that the school would have to teach the

:10:21. > :10:24.national curriculum. If it could meet that requirement, it could go

:10:25. > :10:29.to the Welsh government, apply via a business plan? That is community

:10:30. > :10:41.participation. I am interested in why you think it

:10:42. > :10:48.would not be suitable. What do you think is not suitable? You bring

:10:49. > :10:52.solutions to the table that are right for Wales?

:10:53. > :11:02.Offering the money directly to schools, so you are not forcing it

:11:03. > :11:10.down that route. One in ten kids leave primary school unable to read,

:11:11. > :11:20.are you really going to give Labour another five years? Direct funding

:11:21. > :11:27.of schools is the beginning of the Academy process. It has led to a

:11:28. > :11:31.boom business ministers that handled the budgets, and it has led to lots

:11:32. > :11:37.more civil servants in the Department for Education. The reason

:11:38. > :11:44.why parents in England want to stop the process is that it is a direct

:11:45. > :11:47.threat to rural schools. We want a presumption against closure. If you

:11:48. > :11:50.direct funding, you make it difficult to keep it open, the local

:11:51. > :11:57.authorities can't afford transport and it can't afford provision for

:11:58. > :12:02.special educational needs. The point I made, 90% of the education budget

:12:03. > :12:07.is delegated straight to the school in England, in Wales, 81%. 9% loss

:12:08. > :12:10.to administration. That is money straight in the classroom if you

:12:11. > :12:17.find them directly. You can't deny that. Carwyn? And you and his party

:12:18. > :12:23.have said for five years that education spending is 90%. It's all

:12:24. > :12:33.very well giving it to schools. You have lost canteen contract as well.

:12:34. > :12:34.Why are you going to get rid of the educational maintenance allowance

:12:35. > :12:39.that helped so many people from younger backgrounds -- poorer

:12:40. > :12:44.backgrounds to go to college? We are going to put it into transport, so

:12:45. > :12:49.post-16 transport is continued, at the moment there was no support for

:12:50. > :12:57.post-16 education transport. It would be kept in the education

:12:58. > :13:02.budget. Where is Carys Fry? You are in the important position of asking

:13:03. > :13:08.the last question. What changes would you make to the support

:13:09. > :13:17.available for students to study at university? You are a student I'm

:13:18. > :13:21.aware? Studying? I am at Coventry, and I'm about to go into my final

:13:22. > :13:26.year. What would you say about levels of support and what could be

:13:27. > :13:30.changed? I'm very lucky that I have a lot of support with tuition and

:13:31. > :13:34.living costs, but there needs to be more focus on living costs and

:13:35. > :13:39.support for that. The means tested loans and grants do not cover even

:13:40. > :13:43.the accommodation for some people. I think there needs to be more focus

:13:44. > :13:50.on that. I think we are starting with Alice? Actually, what we

:13:51. > :13:53.propose in Wales, I am going to look at tuition fees, briefly, we offer a

:13:54. > :13:57.free education for Welsh students that want to study in Wales. We do

:13:58. > :14:02.believe that education should be free, for everyone, for life. Anyone

:14:03. > :14:05.that wants to learn should have the ability. At the moment, we don't

:14:06. > :14:09.have the ability to fund students that want to study in England. We

:14:10. > :14:14.are making it available for students that want to study in Wales, and,

:14:15. > :14:18.potentially, students who have courses that are not available in

:14:19. > :14:22.Wales currently. I completely agree, it is not just about tuition fees,

:14:23. > :14:25.it is about funding living costs as well. I think we need to look at

:14:26. > :14:29.what the living costs are, where people are going to study, and

:14:30. > :14:32.taking it from that perspective in terms of what needs are, see that we

:14:33. > :14:37.are meeting those needs. Clearly we are not.

:14:38. > :14:43.You will never pay ?9,000 a year in fees. We will always make sure we

:14:44. > :14:51.look after our students, as we have done for the last five years,...

:14:52. > :14:54.Years. The Lib Dems broke a promise saying they would never charge

:14:55. > :15:01.students for their fees. That will always be a case for us as a party.

:15:02. > :15:05.Another thing we will never do, which is something Leanne wants to

:15:06. > :15:09.do, you must do the study and Wales all come back within five years and

:15:10. > :15:13.we will find you. We believe our young people deserve opportunities

:15:14. > :15:18.wherever they go, wherever they work and wherever they settle. You will

:15:19. > :15:23.know this better than anyone else, Carwyn Jones..., there are strong

:15:24. > :15:27.views in Wales, particularly the universities, who say your policy is

:15:28. > :15:31.not sustainable, it is taking money away from some of these

:15:32. > :15:34.institutions, they think it is unfair and that you are sticking

:15:35. > :15:41.with them for reasons that they don't understand. If they say the

:15:42. > :15:45.money is going into England, let them compete with England by saying

:15:46. > :15:50.we have a better offer in terms of education. Is that a level playing

:15:51. > :15:54.field? What is available playing field? We want our students to get

:15:55. > :16:00.experience at the Wales. We would like them to come home. Some of them

:16:01. > :16:05.will come home with ten or 15 years behind them. We will not say to

:16:06. > :16:09.them, sorry, only study in Wales, even if your course is not

:16:10. > :16:15.available, or if you do not come back within five years, we will

:16:16. > :16:17.charge you. The First Minister is consistently misrepresented the

:16:18. > :16:22.Plaid Cymru position on this. He keeps saying that we want to force

:16:23. > :16:31.people to study in Wales, that is a lie. You know our position is not

:16:32. > :16:35.back. Explain it to me. Leanne now. The existing funding system for

:16:36. > :16:39.student support is not sustainable over the long-term. I listened very

:16:40. > :16:44.carefully to what the First Minister said, he said students will not pay

:16:45. > :16:49.?9,000 in tuition fees under Labour. He did not give a figure of how they

:16:50. > :16:55.would pay, they are being very careful not to state a figure. Who

:16:56. > :17:02.invented tuition fees? It was Labour. The Plaid Cymru policy is

:17:03. > :17:07.that we will pay off ?6,000 out of the ?9,000 for every year a student

:17:08. > :17:13.comes back to work in Wales and plays into the Welsh tax pocket. The

:17:14. > :17:17.moment, we are investing in students' education and they are

:17:18. > :17:21.leaving, we are inadvertently funding universities in other

:17:22. > :17:29.countries when Welsh universities need that money. There are plenty of

:17:30. > :17:32.students coming from England to provide funds for universities in

:17:33. > :17:37.Wales. Effectively you will charge people if they do not come back to

:17:38. > :17:42.Wales, I do not think that is the right approach. And where are the

:17:43. > :17:47.jobs for them to come back to? You are happy to continue with a

:17:48. > :17:50.situation where Welsh taxpayers' money is being spent and English

:17:51. > :17:54.universities and Welsh qualified students are leaving and have no way

:17:55. > :17:58.of coming back to contribute to the economy here? We need the best

:17:59. > :18:01.brains in the country to help us build this country up. You are not

:18:02. > :18:06.doing nothing to try to keep them here. It is a big, wide world. I

:18:07. > :18:11.want the Welsh students to have the best experience. Of course I want

:18:12. > :18:17.them to come back, but I will not say, we will not pay for you unless

:18:18. > :18:21.you come back. It is parochial. OS X Plaid Cymru was in government and

:18:22. > :18:25.they had the economic portfolio, they did not do a good job of

:18:26. > :18:30.providing quality jobs for Welsh people to come back too. Look at the

:18:31. > :18:36.statistics, you had four years of the economic portfolio between

:18:37. > :18:42.2007... It is the economic policies in Westminster run by your party. I

:18:43. > :18:46.never went to university, I did not have a free education, I went to

:18:47. > :18:50.work on the streets in Cardiff selling produce off the farm. We had

:18:51. > :18:55.to help with living costs to make sure that students can get into

:18:56. > :19:01.university. They are paid upfront. My party has put policies into place

:19:02. > :19:06.which will put ?400 million into living costs, that will be paid from

:19:07. > :19:10.day one adventure university. But there is also part-time learning,

:19:11. > :19:15.that is not supported at the moment. We would support part-time learning,

:19:16. > :19:23.FC colleges have been robbed to support HD education. That is not

:19:24. > :19:27.good enough. -- FE colleges have been robbed. The reallocation of

:19:28. > :19:34.resources is extremely important. Kirsty? No political party has a

:19:35. > :19:40.great record in tuition fees. They were introduced by Labour, raised

:19:41. > :19:43.one Plaid Cymru was in power, my party met toe paid the biggest price

:19:44. > :19:48.for not being able to keep its promise in London. It is crucial

:19:49. > :19:52.that we have learned our lesson, and we are clear that we have an

:19:53. > :19:56.affordable policy in this election. We will give all students a ?2500

:19:57. > :20:03.living grant to help with the costs of living. We will ring fence the

:20:04. > :20:07.rest of the higher education budget to give money to institutions in

:20:08. > :20:12.Wales. We need great Welsh universities. They are being starved

:20:13. > :20:15.of resources that the moment. What Labour has done is set pay

:20:16. > :20:22.commission that will conveniently after the election, -- a commission

:20:23. > :20:27.that will conveniently report after the election, the First Minister

:20:28. > :20:31.says he will respond. It is the oldest trick in the book. Learn the

:20:32. > :20:35.lessons of my party, be upfront and straight, be sure you can deliver

:20:36. > :20:41.what you are promising. I have learned that the hard way, that is

:20:42. > :20:44.why we will support students upfront with ?2500, but we recognise that we

:20:45. > :20:49.need to invest in institutions, because if we do not, we will be

:20:50. > :20:56.doing our higher education sector a disservice. Nathan?

:20:57. > :21:00.Kirsty, I don't think you have learned from offering things that

:21:01. > :21:05.you cannot do, you say you will reduce class sizes to 25. We don't

:21:06. > :21:11.know one week from the next how many people are coming here to live, how

:21:12. > :21:18.can you plan to have the 25 people in a class? It is ridiculous. Love

:21:19. > :21:22.is tuition fees? We will provide free Stem subjects, science,

:21:23. > :21:26.technology, engineering, mathematics and medicine. We can pay for that by

:21:27. > :21:32.replacing the grant with a load for those Welsh students who go and

:21:33. > :21:38.learn in England, steady in England. Are you allowing foreign students to

:21:39. > :21:41.come to Wales? Absolutely, I have some friends in Bangor University

:21:42. > :21:47.who are Chinese and from all over the world, please don't try to take

:21:48. > :21:51.this as being racist. Students watching, what happens to tuition

:21:52. > :21:58.fees under the UK policy? If you study a stem subject you will pay no

:21:59. > :22:04.Jewish and fees. If you are studying innings... In England, you will have

:22:05. > :22:11.to repay that through a loan system, but we will pay a ?500 bursary for

:22:12. > :22:16.poorer students who want to study anywhere in the world. There is a

:22:17. > :22:20.young lady in the far corner? There is a lot of mention of cutting

:22:21. > :22:23.tuition fees and taking a budget of the Jewish and fees that the student

:22:24. > :22:30.needs to pay back. This is mostly for and if -- undergraduate degrees,

:22:31. > :22:36.I presume? Will you be offering any support for students who wish to

:22:37. > :22:43.study postgraduate courses almost as deg? The postgraduate question. In

:22:44. > :22:59.the front? -- postgraduate courses or Masters degrees? My question is

:23:00. > :23:02.to do with school education. The LGBTQ community is very

:23:03. > :23:07.discriminated against, should more be done in schools to educate

:23:08. > :23:11.against that? Carwyn Jones always mentions Welsh students with his

:23:12. > :23:15.tuition fees, he never mentions the other 31 nationalities are people

:23:16. > :23:18.who can come to Wales and get exactly the same grant and be

:23:19. > :23:24.subsidised by the Welsh Government. If you come from any country in the

:23:25. > :23:29.common market, I am sorry to mention the common market, the European

:23:30. > :23:32.Common market, 31 countries, any of their students can come to this

:23:33. > :23:37.country and have exactly the same grant that Welsh students get,

:23:38. > :23:42.including Turkey, Norway and Switzerland. Never mentioned. Costs

:23:43. > :23:47.the Welsh economy many millions. The lady in the pink?

:23:48. > :23:54.As a parent of a child on the autistic spectrum, I know that costs

:23:55. > :23:59.fall children as they go into further education increase because

:24:00. > :24:03.of the support they need. What extra funding will you give to children

:24:04. > :24:08.with additional learning needs? Thank you for making the point. We

:24:09. > :24:13.will not be able to have an answer, but thank you. The gentleman in the

:24:14. > :24:19.glasses? The debate feels like it is from a different generation, we're

:24:20. > :24:22.talking about the past, past infrastructure, passed immigration,

:24:23. > :24:27.ignorant comments about Estonia. We should be setting a vision for the

:24:28. > :24:31.future, not reliving the same debate is over and over. Thank you so much

:24:32. > :24:32.for making a future point. Thank you for reminding us we are looking

:24:33. > :24:34.ahead. Thanks to our politicians

:24:35. > :24:39.and thanks to the audience The debate continues with my

:24:40. > :24:42.colleague Bethan Rhys Roberts with a special programme

:24:43. > :24:45.on BBC Two Wales now, and with my colleague Felicity Evans

:24:46. > :24:47.with a special phone-in And, of course, you can continue

:24:48. > :24:51.to have your say on social media - A full list of candidates

:24:52. > :24:57.standing in the election From Cardiff, thank

:24:58. > :25:01.you for watching, enjoy the rest of the campaign -

:25:02. > :25:05.diolch am wylio.