Live with Huw Edwards

:00:09. > :00:10.Nine days to polling day in the election that was never meant

:00:11. > :00:13.to happen, and it's our last opportunity in Wales to bring

:00:14. > :00:16.leading politicians together and put them on the spot.

:00:17. > :00:41.Welcome to Cardiff for the BBC Wales Election Leaders' Debate 2017.

:00:42. > :00:53.Good evening, noswaith dda, a warm welcome to the SSE Swalec

:00:54. > :00:57.Stadium in the heart of the Welsh capital for a special

:00:58. > :01:00.live election debate, and welcome to people across the UK

:01:01. > :01:07.This is where we'll be spending the next 90 minutes,

:01:08. > :01:12.testing the pledges and ambitions of five political parties in Wales.

:01:13. > :01:16.As voters prepare to visit the polling stations

:01:17. > :01:18.on Thursday of next week, we'll be exploring some

:01:19. > :01:22.of the biggest issues featuring in this campaign,

:01:23. > :01:26.from the challenges of the Brexit process ahead to the questions

:01:27. > :01:31.raised by the terrible events in Manchester last week.

:01:32. > :01:34.We asked the five main parties in Wales to nominate a leading

:01:35. > :01:38.representative to take part in tonight's debate.

:01:39. > :01:41.Joining us tonight here in Cardiff for Labour we have

:01:42. > :01:48.For Plaid Cymru we have their leader Leanne Wood.

:01:49. > :01:53.For the Conservatives we have the Welsh Assembly

:01:54. > :01:58.member Darren Millar, and we're grateful to him

:01:59. > :02:00.for appearing as the leader of the Welsh Conservatives,

:02:01. > :02:03.Andrew RT Davies, and the Secretary of State, Alun Cairns,

:02:04. > :02:08.For the Welsh Liberal Democrats we have their leader Mark Williams.

:02:09. > :02:11.And for UKIP we have their leader in the National

:02:12. > :02:32.We have a specially-selected studio audience reflecting different

:02:33. > :02:35.opinions and drawn from different parts of Wales.

:02:36. > :02:38.They will be providing the questions.

:02:39. > :02:41.Each of the politicians here will have time to answer before

:02:42. > :02:45.we turn back to the audience for further questions.

:02:46. > :02:47.And those of you watching at home or online can get

:02:48. > :02:52.Visit our live page on the BBC Wales website and get

:02:53. > :02:57.involved on social media - the hashtag is #BBCWalesDebate.

:02:58. > :03:02.We're going to start with a brief opening statement from each

:03:03. > :03:08.It's their chance to set out the broad message of their campaign,

:03:09. > :03:22.Each panellist will have up to a minute each.

:03:23. > :03:35.The next five years will be the most challenging that Wales and the UK

:03:36. > :03:40.has faced in a generation. Our Brexit deal will define the

:03:41. > :03:46.future of our nation, our place in the world and our economic security.

:03:47. > :03:50.Just 11 days after you go to the ballot box, the European Union will

:03:51. > :03:55.start its to go see Asians with the UK. The leaders of 27 different

:03:56. > :04:00.nations will be on one side of the table and our next Prime Minister on

:04:01. > :04:04.the other. You will hear a lot tonight from Labour, Plaid Cymru and

:04:05. > :04:08.the Lib Dems about standing up for Wales, but these are empty words

:04:09. > :04:12.from the same parties who have been responsible for running Wales into

:04:13. > :04:17.the ground in the past 18 years, giving us the worst school system in

:04:18. > :04:22.the UK and record-breaking cuts to our NHS in Wales. We can ill afford

:04:23. > :04:26.to have them taking our seats at the negotiating table. We need a Prime

:04:27. > :04:31.Minister up to the job and ready to deliver for the people of Wales. It

:04:32. > :04:34.boils down to a straight choice between Theresa May and Jeremy

:04:35. > :04:37.Corbyn and I urge you to vote for Theresa May and the Welsh

:04:38. > :04:49.Darren Millar opening, we now move to Leanne Wood. We are living

:04:50. > :04:53.through an certain times and many people are concerned whether it be

:04:54. > :04:57.about pensions, health, jobs or security. People are looking for

:04:58. > :05:04.leadership. They want to understand the plans of all of our parties, yet

:05:05. > :05:09.the Tories fail to send their leaders to debate and to be

:05:10. > :05:14.scrutinised. Why? It is not easy for them to defend their toxic policies.

:05:15. > :05:19.With Labour divided it is up to Plaid Cymru to chart a course

:05:20. > :05:24.through this uncertainty. With our positive plans to protect jobs, to

:05:25. > :05:30.strengthen the Welsh economy, to improve the nation's health and

:05:31. > :05:35.education, we are able to offer hope and optimism instead of despair and

:05:36. > :05:39.division. If you want Wales to matter, if you want us to defend

:05:40. > :05:43.what we have and develop so that we can make this country even better,

:05:44. > :05:51.give us the mandate, boat Plaid Cymru. Thank you very much.

:05:52. > :05:56.Leanne Wood with the opening statement for Plaid Cymru. We are

:05:57. > :06:01.moving to Mark Williams for the Lib Dems. Ladies and gentlemen, your

:06:02. > :06:06.motivation for voting next week may be on different issues. Many will

:06:07. > :06:11.vote on Brexit, many on the plethora of issues that affect us in our

:06:12. > :06:17.everyday lives. I just want to talk a little about values. It was

:06:18. > :06:22.graphically brought home to us last week when a young man walked into a

:06:23. > :06:26.pop concert and deliberately slaughtered children, our children.

:06:27. > :06:33.Families are grieving, our country is grieving, we are still in a state

:06:34. > :06:40.of shock, but we are angry. It is times like this that our action

:06:41. > :06:45.defines us, defines who ER -- who we are as a country, defines our

:06:46. > :06:54.values. Do we point the finger, community and its community, or do

:06:55. > :06:59.we point to liberal values, open, not close, tolerant, not prejudiced,

:07:00. > :07:03.United not divided, that is the Britain I and my party believing and

:07:04. > :07:06.that is the Wales I believe in as well and it is the values I believe

:07:07. > :07:10.all of us in this country holds dear.

:07:11. > :07:18.Mark Williams for the Welsh Liberal Democrats. Next we have Carwyn Jones

:07:19. > :07:23.for Labour. Good evening. I got into politics through my anger at what

:07:24. > :07:26.the Tories did for this country a generation ago. We thought we were

:07:27. > :07:32.done with that kind of politics, done with the neglect of our

:07:33. > :07:38.services, done with the gutting of whole industries like coal and steel

:07:39. > :07:42.without hope. The Tories want to forget about that and brush it under

:07:43. > :07:47.the carpet. They are doing it because they have not changed. They

:07:48. > :07:52.don't want to think about working families rely on food banks, that is

:07:53. > :07:55.not strong and stable, that is shameful. They do not want to think

:07:56. > :08:00.about shutting the door on the poor and the vulnerable. It is cruel and

:08:01. > :08:04.weak and we cannot afford five more years of this indifference and

:08:05. > :08:09.cruelty. Welsh Labour is delivering the best ever GCSE results, a living

:08:10. > :08:13.wage in the NHS and record employment just to name three, but

:08:14. > :08:19.all of this is at risk if we allow the Tories to trample over this

:08:20. > :08:21.again. We will fight the Tory cuts and Welsh Labour will stand up for

:08:22. > :08:31.all of us. Carwyn Jones for Labour. Our last

:08:32. > :08:36.opening statement is from Neil Hamilton from Ukip. This election is

:08:37. > :08:39.about national independence and Parliamentary democracy being

:08:40. > :08:44.recovered. Theresa May called this election for a mandate to deliver

:08:45. > :08:49.results for Brexit that she did not want. The Tory party did not want a

:08:50. > :08:54.referendum in the first place. If it had not been for Ukip breathing down

:08:55. > :09:00.their necks in the last Parliament, we would not have had a mandate to

:09:01. > :09:03.leave the EU. We need to keep the government on the straight and

:09:04. > :09:07.narrow. There is no doubt Theresa May will be Prime Minister on the

:09:08. > :09:12.8th of May, but we have seen that her mind is changeable. She changes

:09:13. > :09:17.her mind on all sorts of things as she is buffeted around by the winds

:09:18. > :09:25.of fate. Ukip is unambiguously in favour of Brexit and that is what we

:09:26. > :09:31.want to see delivered. Neil Hamilton completing our opening statements.

:09:32. > :09:36.Can I explain how we are going to manage this. There are five main

:09:37. > :09:42.questions and we have allocated around 15 minutes for each of them.

:09:43. > :09:46.What I will do once the question has been asked, is to ask each of my

:09:47. > :09:52.colleagues to answer briefly before we then open up for debate. I will

:09:53. > :09:57.do it simply in terms of Leanne Wood started on the first question and

:09:58. > :10:01.then Darren and Mark, etc. They will all have an opening statement, a

:10:02. > :10:04.brief opening thought on the question, before we open up.

:10:05. > :10:06.On to our first question of the evening and it

:10:07. > :10:16.In the wake of the terrible events in Manchester last week,

:10:17. > :10:19.what will the parties do to help keep people safe, while also

:10:20. > :10:22.protecting civil liberties and avoiding discrimination?

:10:23. > :10:31.Thank you very much. Before I turned to Leanne Wood, to underline, in the

:10:32. > :10:36.wake of the terrible events in Manchester last week, what will the

:10:37. > :10:40.parties do to help keep people safe while also protecting civil

:10:41. > :10:44.liberties and avoiding discrimination? Do you have a

:10:45. > :10:50.thought on this? What is your ideal response to this? Just to bring

:10:51. > :10:57.communities together in terms of when these things take place and

:10:58. > :11:02.that is the key. All the hate taking place right now and with the media

:11:03. > :11:10.particularly and the rise of the far right. I think the best way to keep

:11:11. > :11:15.people safe is to make sure we invest in those services, like

:11:16. > :11:17.intelligence services and police services, health and emergency

:11:18. > :11:24.services, to ensure that if an incident like this does happen that

:11:25. > :11:28.we can do all we can to minimise the impact. But I share your concerns

:11:29. > :11:33.about divided communities and I think one of the things that the

:11:34. > :11:40.terrorists want is for us to fear each other, to turn against each

:11:41. > :11:43.other and fall out as neighbours in our communities and we must do all

:11:44. > :11:48.we can to make sure they do not win and they do not divide us. I am keen

:11:49. > :11:53.and I would be grateful if all the politicians here on this platform

:11:54. > :11:57.would join me in making a strong statement of solidarity that we are

:11:58. > :12:04.all in this together, we all have to work together to defeat both the

:12:05. > :12:10.forces of the far right in terms of Islamic extremism and also in terms

:12:11. > :12:15.of the far right, in terms of white supremacy as well. Darren? My heart

:12:16. > :12:21.went out to the victims of the dreadful Manchester attack just a

:12:22. > :12:25.couple of weeks back. I was brought up as a child in Manchester and I

:12:26. > :12:30.remember very much the bombing campaigns of the IRA at that time.

:12:31. > :12:34.What we have got to do is make sure we have sufficient investment in our

:12:35. > :12:40.security services and I have been pleased the UK Government have made

:12:41. > :12:50.available almost ?3.5 billion extra for additional 1900 more officers

:12:51. > :12:53.for MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. That is a record in terms of our investment in

:12:54. > :12:59.counterterrorism and cyber crime that will pay dividends in the

:13:00. > :13:04.future. 3500 people under surveillance by MI5 who have had

:13:05. > :13:10.marked success in foiling several terrorist attacks since the London

:13:11. > :13:16.attack, and of course there is adequate resourcing. The knee jerk

:13:17. > :13:21.reaction is to say we need more police officers and, yes, we do, but

:13:22. > :13:25.we need more investment in our intelligence services whatever the

:13:26. > :13:30.record the Conservatives assert. The keyword at community level has to be

:13:31. > :13:35.integration. This is why my party has had some concerns over the

:13:36. > :13:38.Prevent strategy which is directed from above them into communities

:13:39. > :13:40.rather than actively involving people on the ground in that

:13:41. > :13:47.integrated approach. I was Government whip for Northern

:13:48. > :13:51.Ireland a generation ago, I know what it's like to live with being a

:13:52. > :13:56.terrorist target, different kind of terrorism from the one that we face

:13:57. > :14:01.today. A very small number of people can cause an enormous amount of

:14:02. > :14:06.damage. As Mark has just said, the 3,500 people who are known to MI5 as

:14:07. > :14:09.terrorists or very strongly suspected to be terrorists, you

:14:10. > :14:14.can't have a surveillance over such a number of people. Therefore we

:14:15. > :14:19.have to invest even more than we do in the police and the Security

:14:20. > :14:24.Services. Ukip's policy to increase the police by 20,000. We also need

:14:25. > :14:29.to have a much tougher policy on migration and also the deportation

:14:30. > :14:32.of those who are involved in terrorist activity, for those who

:14:33. > :14:39.are foreigners, we will be able to do this once we're out of the

:14:40. > :14:42.European Union. Even for those who have dual nationality, we should

:14:43. > :14:46.strip them of British narlt and deport them as well. For foreigners

:14:47. > :14:50.and for British citizens, then obviously we need to consider very

:14:51. > :14:52.carefully not just monitoring but actually taking them out of

:14:53. > :14:56.circulation in certain circumstances.

:14:57. > :15:00.We'll get some responses to that. We meet this evening in the shadow of

:15:01. > :15:03.Manchester, don't we. Our thoughts have to be with the families,

:15:04. > :15:07.emergency services and everybody affected by what happened there. As

:15:08. > :15:11.First Minister, I've been receiving regular security briefings on a

:15:12. > :15:14.daily basis. I know how hard our emergency services and our

:15:15. > :15:18.intelligence services have been working. But let's be clear about

:15:19. > :15:22.this, these are people with whom there can be no compromise, no

:15:23. > :15:27.negotiation, no accommodation. They will not hesitate to kill people who

:15:28. > :15:31.are not exactly like them, including other Muslims, who are the main

:15:32. > :15:35.targets of their murderous intent. So it's hugely important we do two

:15:36. > :15:38.things: Yes, we need to make sure there are more police on the

:15:39. > :15:41.streets. We've pledged that as a party. But also good intelligence.

:15:42. > :15:44.We all have a role to play. We all need to be vigilant. These people

:15:45. > :15:48.will stop at nothing to destroy our democracy and we should never, ever

:15:49. > :15:52.let them win. Thank you very much. Who'd like to come in on this? Just

:15:53. > :15:55.give me a sense of how many people there are. Thank you very much. So,

:15:56. > :16:02.lady here first of all. Then lady there. Then I'll come to the back.

:16:03. > :16:07.Thank you very much. I'm a community activist. I think the problem with

:16:08. > :16:12.what happened with the terrible attacks in Manchester is ignoring

:16:13. > :16:16.the role of foreign policy. But also, the politics of fear that we

:16:17. > :16:20.have been living in in Britain. We have to exchange the politics of

:16:21. > :16:25.fear with the politics of hope and we have to work with communities

:16:26. > :16:30.rather than stigmatising a minority for the sake of political gains. I

:16:31. > :16:36.think that's the problem that's happening at the moment that we are

:16:37. > :16:41.not addressing the issue holistically and we would rain

:16:42. > :16:45.scapegoat minorities for these gains and these things are being changed.

:16:46. > :16:48.You are making a direct link with foreign activity in the past and

:16:49. > :16:53.what happened last week, is that a direct link? Well the individual was

:16:54. > :16:57.motivated by the foreign policy of our country in Iraq and Syria. And

:16:58. > :17:06.he committed this horrendous attack as a result. So can we not address

:17:07. > :17:11.that? But also addressing the social injustices that certain communities

:17:12. > :17:17.from from poverty, unemployment. Why this 22 years old man committed this

:17:18. > :17:25.terrible attack? We need to find out the root causes of that without

:17:26. > :17:30.stigmatising a minority, a manifestation of this stigmatisation

:17:31. > :17:34.is Prevent strategy which created a hostile environment around me, as a

:17:35. > :17:40.Muslim woman who chose to wear a face veil I could be referred

:17:41. > :17:44.because this can be a sign of radicalisation, so there are flaws

:17:45. > :17:50.with the Prevent strategy. Going back to my friend's questions, how

:17:51. > :17:52.can we balance the national security without undermining our civil

:17:53. > :17:56.liberties and treating everyone equally. Thank you very much. Making

:17:57. > :18:01.your point very clearly. The lady here next. Thank you very much. Yes.

:18:02. > :18:05.Whilst a grow we need more integration within our communities

:18:06. > :18:07.rather than divide and conquer of media and social media that is

:18:08. > :18:12.currently being played out, considering what happened on Monday,

:18:13. > :18:14.is it not time we scrutinise people who are coming into our country,

:18:15. > :18:19.whether they live here or they've come here for a holiday more

:18:20. > :18:23.seriously and those who were on the terrorist watch list should there

:18:24. > :18:27.now be interred or tagged as the IRA were in the 70s and 80s? That's a

:18:28. > :18:30.very strong point again. Can you make a note of some of these and

:18:31. > :18:37.we'll come back to them straight away. Gentleman in glasses there.

:18:38. > :18:40.Yes, first I want to note that the terrorist from Manchester last, I

:18:41. > :18:47.believe he was Libyan not Syrian or Iraqi. But also, Jeremy Corbyn as

:18:48. > :18:52.well has been saying that foreign policy is to blame for Islamic

:18:53. > :18:56.terrorism. But you see Islamic terrorism in countries like Sweden

:18:57. > :18:59.as well. What's Sweden's foreign policy done to cause Islamic

:19:00. > :19:02.terrorism? Nothing. Sweden's never been to war with any country in the

:19:03. > :19:06.Middle East. They've never done anything to deserve that. I don't

:19:07. > :19:09.think you can solve the problem unless you correctly identify what

:19:10. > :19:12.that problem is. Thank you. Gentleman at the end here.

:19:13. > :19:19.APPLAUSE Then this gentleman here. I don't

:19:20. > :19:23.think there is any reason which you can give to blow up, blow yourself

:19:24. > :19:25.up and kill children. There can be no reason at all...

:19:26. > :19:30.APPLAUSE This is a democratic country. If you

:19:31. > :19:33.don't agree with the thing, there are options for protest. You can go

:19:34. > :19:36.on a civil march. You can do a lot of things, blowing yourself is not a

:19:37. > :19:39.reason to do that. What's your response to the lady here who says

:19:40. > :19:43.that you have to look at causes which might include the way foreign

:19:44. > :19:48.policy has been enacted in the past? Which is fine, but the action from

:19:49. > :19:53.that is not the right way to do that. You cannot blow yourself up

:19:54. > :19:56.and kill innocent children and say that this is because of that. There

:19:57. > :20:00.is no justification for that. Thank you. Can you just come back on that

:20:01. > :20:06.for a second ah, I quick response to that. There's no justification of

:20:07. > :20:08.course. It's just addressing the root causes holistically without

:20:09. > :20:13.stigmatising any minority. There's no justification

:20:14. > :20:18.Firstly, discrimination must be fought. There is no need for people

:20:19. > :20:21.to be stigmatised. If people are discriminated against because of

:20:22. > :20:23.what they believe in or what they look like, then the terrorists have

:20:24. > :20:28.won. That's exactly what they want us to do. I don't agree with you

:20:29. > :20:32.that this would not have happened if it wasn't, if British foreign policy

:20:33. > :20:35.had been different. The gentleman made the point correctly about

:20:36. > :20:38.Sweden. This is a war as they see it against all those who don't believe

:20:39. > :20:41.as they believe. Turkey has been on the receiving end of these attacks

:20:42. > :20:46.as well. We always have to look to see how we can cut off the source of

:20:47. > :20:49.that radicalisation, whether through ideas, or cutting off the money

:20:50. > :20:52.supply, or the supply of weapons, that much is true. With these

:20:53. > :20:58.people, I have to say, they will not stop. They will carry on. The fact

:20:59. > :21:01.that this young man came and murdered innocent people, there is

:21:02. > :21:05.no excuse for that. I know of no religion that says that part of that

:21:06. > :21:07.religion dictates that you must murder innocent, young people. Islam

:21:08. > :21:12.doesn't say that. Christianity doesn't say that. But the last thing

:21:13. > :21:15.we should do is allow division to enter our society. That would mean

:21:16. > :21:23.this terrorist would get exactly what he wanted. Neil, several points

:21:24. > :21:29.made, including taking a rather more radical approach to people who are

:21:30. > :21:35.on watch lists and who are suspected maybe of engaging in some preparer

:21:36. > :21:39.to activity. What's your thought? We do have to be rather more Draconian

:21:40. > :21:43.in our response. There is an argument for internment - It was a

:21:44. > :21:49.disaster. That created more problems than it solved. I think we have to

:21:50. > :21:53.be rather more Draconian than we'veed been in the past. This is a

:21:54. > :21:57.war within Islam, but also a war between that strand of Islam and the

:21:58. > :22:01.rest of the world. This is fundamentally a religiously driven

:22:02. > :22:05.conflict. These people are fanatics who are not going to be influenced

:22:06. > :22:09.one way or another, though they may use it as an excuse to talk about

:22:10. > :22:14.foreign policy mistakes. I was against the Iraq war and all the

:22:15. > :22:20.interventions in other places like Libya in the Middle East. I do think

:22:21. > :22:24.they have given a weapon to our enemies to use for propaganda

:22:25. > :22:28.purposes. So you could argue then, in that case, that the way foreign

:22:29. > :22:31.policy has been enacted - if you say it's given people some kind of

:22:32. > :22:36.excuse, you're making the link. It doesn't give them an excuse, but it

:22:37. > :22:39.gives them a propaganda weapon which they've effectively used. Gentleman

:22:40. > :22:45.here has been waiting patiently. Yes, sir. So, firstly, I disagree

:22:46. > :22:50.with the lady at the front and Carwyn Jones who says Islam doesn't

:22:51. > :22:53.advocate the killing of non-believers when that's a verse

:22:54. > :22:58.out of the Koran, what I'm going to say with that is religion has

:22:59. > :23:02.secularised parts of the old testament has similar radical views.

:23:03. > :23:05.The issue with this is it's political correctness from each and

:23:06. > :23:10.every single one of you on the panel today. You fail to recognise the

:23:11. > :23:20.problem, which is the faith of Islam and the way it is conTrude. Most of

:23:21. > :23:24.the people who commit these attacks are radicalised not moderate

:23:25. > :23:30.Muslims. This problem is a failure to address on each and every one of

:23:31. > :23:34.your behalf's. People in this country have been silenced for fear

:23:35. > :23:37.of being called racist and Islamophobic. People need to

:23:38. > :23:43.intergrace. -- integrate. Each of you need to play your role. In

:23:44. > :23:47.Cardiff where imfrom, ten people have been arrested in the last year

:23:48. > :23:49.from terror-related incidents from a similar communities. A lot of the

:23:50. > :23:53.Muslims go to the same schools and hang round in the same communities.

:23:54. > :23:56.If we're creating this division from a young age, that doesn't set

:23:57. > :23:59.Muslims and non-Muslims up well for the future. What will you do to

:24:00. > :24:03.combat these issues? Thank you very much.

:24:04. > :24:08.APPLAUSE We'll come back to you. Gentleman

:24:09. > :24:12.here. Yes; Can I ask the panel, is anybody on the panel -- has anybody

:24:13. > :24:17.read the Koran. You're saying the foreign policy and Jeremy Corbyn's

:24:18. > :24:21.saying about foreign policy. Read some of the Koran and like that

:24:22. > :24:32.gentleman - The point you're making is? That in the Koran, it actually

:24:33. > :24:36.says that what has actually happened, basically saying go and

:24:37. > :24:39.kill any non-believers. It actually says that in here. Why are you

:24:40. > :24:45.looking anywhere else. Thank you very much. In the back. We bombed

:24:46. > :24:52.Iraq but we refused to bomb Syria. So the thing about foreign currency,

:24:53. > :24:56.foreign policy is quite wrong W these gentlemen have said is wrong.

:24:57. > :25:06.The Koran teaches jihad and we allow it to be taught in British schools.

:25:07. > :25:09.When are you going to stop that? They believe what they read and it

:25:10. > :25:17.tells them to go on jihad. What's your response? . I used to be a

:25:18. > :25:20.teacher and I used to teach RE in a school and we teach all faiths. It's

:25:21. > :25:24.very important we teach children about all faiths. Let's not lose

:25:25. > :25:28.sight of the fact... APPLAUSE

:25:29. > :25:35.I understand the emotions about this, but let's remember we are

:25:36. > :25:38.talking about a tiny, tiny minority, totally deplorable individuals. This

:25:39. > :25:42.is not an indictment on Islam. It is not an indictment on the majority of

:25:43. > :25:46.Muslim communities across Wales and the United Kingdom. This is a tiny,

:25:47. > :25:50.tiny number of people and we need to keep that in perspective. The

:25:51. > :25:55.problem is that the havoc they can cause and that is why I I go back to

:25:56. > :25:58.what I said at the start, that word I used, integration about working

:25:59. > :26:02.within communities to identify these individuals and to deal with them

:26:03. > :26:07.accordingly. Thank you very much. I think one of the things that we do

:26:08. > :26:12.need to do is tackle the platform that these preachers of hate, who

:26:13. > :26:19.are representative of a very small minority of Muslims, with very

:26:20. > :26:24.warped views and interpretations of their holy Scriptures, we need to

:26:25. > :26:27.take away their platforms. One of the platforms has been the internet,

:26:28. > :26:31.social media, YouTube, it's been Facebook. We've got to get tougher

:26:32. > :26:35.with these internet service providers and these platforms to

:26:36. > :26:40.make sure that they take away those platforms and don't allow other

:26:41. > :26:43.people to be indoctriniated by these warped views which cause people to

:26:44. > :26:47.do such terrible acts like the one we saw in Manchester. Are you

:26:48. > :26:52.acknowledging and saying that what we've mentioned it, the Prevent

:26:53. > :26:57.strategy, there's been debate about the strategy, which is meant to take

:26:58. > :27:01.steps to stop people being radicalised. Is that an admission to

:27:02. > :27:07.say that strategy is flawed or not worth the time? There is a need of

:27:08. > :27:12.the a refresh of the strategy. Let's face it, it has been successful at

:27:13. > :27:17.foiling at least 18 terror attacks since 2013. I think that shows some

:27:18. > :27:20.of the strength of the UK Government's approach in recent

:27:21. > :27:24.years and you know, I'm sorry, I think it is disappointing sometimes

:27:25. > :27:27.when we've seen politicians in the wake of the Manchester attack try to

:27:28. > :27:30.make this a party political issue when we should be working together

:27:31. > :27:35.in order to solve this as a nation. I'm going to take one comment from

:27:36. > :27:40.the back. Can I make one point about party politics. There is a political

:27:41. > :27:44.issue to be made here, that's about police cuts and police funding.

:27:45. > :27:52.Police spending has been cut by 20% by the Home Office, including when

:27:53. > :27:56.Theresa May ran it. That has meant 19,000 fewer police officers on our

:27:57. > :28:02.streets in Wales since 2010. So there is a political element to this

:28:03. > :28:05.question. You can't get away from that. May I also point out that

:28:06. > :28:09.crime fell by a third while Theresa May was Home Secretary. That's not

:28:10. > :28:13.the question in hand, though. It's not necessarily about how many

:28:14. > :28:19.police officers we have. It's where we target those - It's a factor

:28:20. > :28:23.though. The reality is, an extra 3. ?3.4 billion has been made available

:28:24. > :28:27.to increase the number of officers in MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. You should

:28:28. > :28:31.have kept them in the first place. We have to move on to the next

:28:32. > :28:35.question. The gentleman there. Quick comment from you. Then the gentleman

:28:36. > :28:40.in the back row in the blue shirt, quick comment from you. Very quick.

:28:41. > :28:44.Thank you very much for bringing this issues in front of our leaders.

:28:45. > :28:51.First of all, I like to tell that I'm a practising Muslim. I go to

:28:52. > :28:59.mosque five times in a day. I really strongly opposing some comments

:29:00. > :29:04.about holy Koran. I believe that I like to support our First Minister,

:29:05. > :29:09.the way he said, in no holy Bible or holy Koran or any other religious

:29:10. > :29:13.book you'll never find anywhere where it is written you go and kill

:29:14. > :29:21.a person and you'll go to heaven. Nowhere, I never find in my life. So

:29:22. > :29:24.the jihad, the explanation is actually it is not truly explained

:29:25. > :29:29.in front of everyone. I have children growing up here, going to

:29:30. > :29:35.school and mixing with - I mix with everyone as well. So my humble

:29:36. > :29:39.request, last of all, that those who are murderer call them murderer.

:29:40. > :29:44.Whatever religion, whatever race they have got, they're murderer. We

:29:45. > :29:45.should be united together to overcome this situation. Thank you

:29:46. > :29:57.very much. APPLAUSE

:29:58. > :30:04.We have overrun on the first question, so I am moving on. The

:30:05. > :30:12.second question is from Lucy Lloyd, a trainee tax advisor. As the UK

:30:13. > :30:17.prepares to leave the European Union, how will you secure the best

:30:18. > :30:22.deal for Wales? I will put you on the spot straightaway before I put

:30:23. > :30:25.Darren on the spot. What are your thoughts on this challenge and what

:30:26. > :30:30.do you expect? What would you like to hear from this panel? I would

:30:31. > :30:36.like to hear how exactly they are going to get the best deal for

:30:37. > :30:41.Wales. The question is UK wide and we are Great Britain, but what are

:30:42. > :30:46.we going to do for Wales? There are so many aspects of Wales that rely

:30:47. > :30:51.on EU funding. How will you get the funding from somewhere else or

:30:52. > :30:56.secure it from elsewhere? The same form again. I want five relatively

:30:57. > :31:02.precise contributions and then we will open it up to debate. Darren.

:31:03. > :31:05.Unfortunately the EU funding we have received has not delivered the sea

:31:06. > :31:11.change that we needed to see over the past 16 years. It is an abject

:31:12. > :31:14.failure of the Welsh Government to actually deliver the sort of

:31:15. > :31:20.improvements that was expected as a result of the money that we have

:31:21. > :31:24.had, ?4 million. The way we get the best deal is having the best

:31:25. > :31:30.negotiator at the table facing of the other 27 nations and I have to

:31:31. > :31:34.say it is a straight choice, either Jeremy Corbyn as your Prime Minister

:31:35. > :31:40.or Theresa May. I know who I will be backing to make sure we get the best

:31:41. > :31:44.deal. When Theresa May is doing the negotiations, how high up the

:31:45. > :31:53.priority list will Wales be? We are at the heart of the negotiation

:31:54. > :31:58.strategy. There is a Welsh MP in the Brexit department as a minister

:31:59. > :32:02.actively articulating the case for Wales, David Jones. It is really

:32:03. > :32:07.important we get this right. This will set the scene for future

:32:08. > :32:11.generations. I have no confidence whatsoever that having Jeremy Corbyn

:32:12. > :32:16.doing those negotiations will deliver the right result for Wales.

:32:17. > :32:22.I have much more confidence Theresa May will be the right person to do

:32:23. > :32:26.that. You are right to highlight the enormity at stake, whether it is

:32:27. > :32:32.those who have come from farming communities, or those from West

:32:33. > :32:35.Wales in the valleys, those who represent higher educational

:32:36. > :32:42.institutions with flows of money and academics. The truth, sadly, is we

:32:43. > :32:46.cannot trust the Tories on this. We had the opportunity to ensure there

:32:47. > :32:52.was a Welsh voice in the heart of politics in the House of commons. In

:32:53. > :32:57.Article 50 we tried to ensure that the national Assembly would have a

:32:58. > :33:00.real voice in the negotiations. The Tory party marched against them

:33:01. > :33:10.through the lobbies and our opportunity was lost. Leanne's party

:33:11. > :33:14.and by default my colleague Kirsty Williams presented a document which

:33:15. > :33:18.laid before the UK Government the risks at stake. It is one thing the

:33:19. > :33:22.Tory government telling us we were listened to you, we will sit on the

:33:23. > :33:28.other side of the table and nod agreement every time and every now

:33:29. > :33:31.and again. I simply do not trust them when the crunch comes to

:33:32. > :33:38.deliver the funding we are entitled to under funding we have been used

:33:39. > :33:43.to over the last few years. Just for the sake of clarity, because someone

:33:44. > :33:47.will pick up on this, but you are here today representing a party that

:33:48. > :33:53.once a second referendum. Ratification referendum, a

:33:54. > :33:57.referendum on the terms like the intention to leave or remain,

:33:58. > :34:02.something specific on the terms. Not a blank check that Theresa May once.

:34:03. > :34:07.That is because you still have not accepted the result according to

:34:08. > :34:12.opponent. I accepted the outcome of June the 23rd, it was a clear

:34:13. > :34:17.question. I do not agree that people did not know what they were voting

:34:18. > :34:22.for. Wales voted to leave, but it did not see the terms and the impact

:34:23. > :34:29.on the farming community, small businesses and higher education and

:34:30. > :34:34.Wales needs to see the terms. I suggest that as time moves on there

:34:35. > :34:39.will be more of public hankering to look at the terms yourself and have

:34:40. > :34:46.that vote, not just those of us who are lucky enough perhaps to be

:34:47. > :34:51.re-elected. Neill. None of the money spent in Wales by the European

:34:52. > :34:56.Commission is European money, it is all our money, British taxpayers'

:34:57. > :35:02.money. For every ?1 spent in the United Kingdom by the European

:35:03. > :35:06.Union, we paid ?2 into the pot, so there is a massive dividend coming

:35:07. > :35:11.to us the moment we leave and it will be up to our government to

:35:12. > :35:15.decide how that is spent. The figures are not enormous, unlike

:35:16. > :35:20.what Mark said a moment ago, but they are significant. The structural

:35:21. > :35:29.fund for the EU is about 300 million a year. Similarly, our is only 2% of

:35:30. > :35:40.the UK economy. It is very important... How big is your budget?

:35:41. > :35:43.260 million. I am keeping things in perspective. There will be plenty of

:35:44. > :35:50.money in the coffers of the Treasury in Whitehall. West Wales is the

:35:51. > :35:56.heart of the farming community. If you will do me the honour of

:35:57. > :36:01.listening when I finish my point. I have said on behalf of Ukip in Wales

:36:02. > :36:06.that every single penny the European Union currently spends in Wales and

:36:07. > :36:13.our British taxpayers' money should come to Wales. It will be up to the

:36:14. > :36:17.Welsh Government because agriculture is a devolved matter, to decide what

:36:18. > :36:21.is the best agricultural policy for Wales? This should not be left to

:36:22. > :36:27.somebody who cannot be named and you do not vote for. It will be his

:36:28. > :36:30.responsibility and his government to answer to the Welsh people at the

:36:31. > :36:36.end of the day if they do not deliver the best deal. When we look

:36:37. > :36:43.at net beneficiaries or not, in 2014 when we had that official study by

:36:44. > :36:49.the Welsh Government in Cardiff, in that year, Wales was benefiting to

:36:50. > :36:53.the tune of ?250 million in terms of inflow and outflow. It is difficult

:36:54. > :36:59.to square that with you saying there is nothing coming in. The funding

:37:00. > :37:03.you mentioned earlier, basically all of that money coming from the EU is

:37:04. > :37:12.taxpayers' money, it is not because there is more put back in. The

:37:13. > :37:16.United Kingdom as a whole. This is an Welsh terms. Every single penny

:37:17. > :37:22.the European Union currently spends in Wales should be given to Wales by

:37:23. > :37:24.the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the UK Government, who will ultimately

:37:25. > :37:32.be responsible for dividing the cake up. But I am making the point and to

:37:33. > :37:38.underline it again, in 2014 Wales got more money back that it put in.

:37:39. > :37:44.Wales got more money back and it put in. I do not want that situation to

:37:45. > :37:49.change within the United Kingdom when it is our money, we decide how

:37:50. > :37:54.to spend for ourselves rather than it being decided in Brussels. We

:37:55. > :37:58.cannot guarantee that same redistribution of wealth will happen

:37:59. > :38:02.through the Westminster government. The Tories will try to grab that

:38:03. > :38:06.money for themselves and we will lose out and that is what we have to

:38:07. > :38:09.guard against and that is what we have to get guarantees from the

:38:10. > :38:17.Tories about, although their leader has gone on holiday. I will tell you

:38:18. > :38:22.precisely what guarantees the UK Government has given, it has said it

:38:23. > :38:28.will guarantee the current payments to farmers until at least 2022,

:38:29. > :38:35.beyond the current CHP envelope which takes us to 2020. In addition

:38:36. > :38:38.to that, we will establish a UK shared prosperity fund and I have

:38:39. > :38:44.every expectation Wales will do better out of that fun than it

:38:45. > :38:48.currently does. EU funding accounts for 80% of all farming, how we

:38:49. > :38:55.guarantee a future for Welsh farmers unless you can guarantee that

:38:56. > :39:00.funding? I have made it quite clear the UK Conservative manifesto is

:39:01. > :39:03.very clear on this, it said it would guarantee the future funding in

:39:04. > :39:12.terms of agricultural support right up until 2022. And beyond that?

:39:13. > :39:16.There is no guarantee from the EU beyond 2020. The prosperity fund

:39:17. > :39:19.gives us an opportunity to support West Wales and the valleys and other

:39:20. > :39:27.places where there is deprivation like Wrexham and Newport. I will

:39:28. > :39:32.give the courtesy of an answer and move beyond the squabbling. We

:39:33. > :39:36.accept the result of the referendum, the decision has been taken, it is a

:39:37. > :39:42.question of how it is done. We produced a white paper jointly with

:39:43. > :39:51.Plaid Cymru putting a plan in place saying how this could be done. All

:39:52. > :39:56.of the engines at Bridgend go to the EU and it is important we protect

:39:57. > :40:00.that. We need to look at Freedom of movement and adapt it to meet

:40:01. > :40:05.people's concerns. I have heard that on the doorstep, but there is no

:40:06. > :40:11.plan from the Tories. All we hear from Theresa May is slogans, Brexit

:40:12. > :40:15.means Brexit, and if we have somebody going into the negotiating

:40:16. > :40:21.chamber saying that, we might as well have a parrot to be honest. We

:40:22. > :40:27.need are worked out plan from the Tories about how they will deliver

:40:28. > :40:32.this. We have done it. The Welsh people are told point-blank that

:40:33. > :40:37.Wales will not lose out a single penny. That promise has been

:40:38. > :40:43.ditched. From 2020 that money will disappear. I know, talking about

:40:44. > :40:47.farming and hearing from Whitehall, they expect Australia and New

:40:48. > :40:52.Zealand to produce lamb in the future, not Welsh farmers. Plaid

:40:53. > :40:57.Cymru has got a positive post Brexit plan to protect the jobs we have

:40:58. > :41:03.got, but to create the conditions to develop better jobs in the future as

:41:04. > :41:07.well. We have to fight for our interests to keep our funding. We

:41:08. > :41:11.are at risk of trade deals that would see our health service

:41:12. > :41:15.privatised and our agriculture decimated by cheap imports. Wales

:41:16. > :41:20.has not been on the agenda since the referendum and it is only by

:41:21. > :41:29.electing a strong team of Plaid Cymru MPs that we will make sure

:41:30. > :41:34.that Wales' voices are heard and they are met as well. Who will come

:41:35. > :41:40.in on this? I am scanning the audience. Over here. Let me get a

:41:41. > :41:45.spread. The gentleman over there. The gentleman at the back. Thank you

:41:46. > :41:52.very much. I have heard you before. I will take this gentleman here and

:41:53. > :41:58.then this gentleman here. Let's have some ladies putting their hands up

:41:59. > :42:06.please. Thank you very much. Yes, in the corner. The discussion seems to

:42:07. > :42:10.be coming down to who will be best placed to negotiate for Britain and

:42:11. > :42:14.we have seen Theresa May already changed her mind about the general

:42:15. > :42:20.election. We have seen her strong and stable manifesto policy around

:42:21. > :42:24.dementia tax, as soon as it came under fire she backtracked on that.

:42:25. > :42:29.I do not see for a minute how Theresa May is going to best

:42:30. > :42:33.represent Wales in those talks. I would imagine the 27 other leaders

:42:34. > :42:40.are saying, bring it on, if it is Theresa May. The gentleman at the

:42:41. > :42:44.back. With regards to agricultural subsidies, Britain has had them

:42:45. > :42:49.since 1948 and the Tories have a lot of rural constituencies so they

:42:50. > :42:54.would be absolutely mad to not subsidise farmers because they would

:42:55. > :43:01.lose a load of votes. Farmers should have no worries? I think so. But in

:43:02. > :43:09.our future we need to look beyond Europe. Are we going to continue to

:43:10. > :43:14.have negotiations with other countries that the EU has stopped

:43:15. > :43:19.negotiating with like the United States, Japan, Australia and India?

:43:20. > :43:30.Are your party is going to continue trying to get trade deals so we can

:43:31. > :43:34.sell our products are abroad.? I agree with Mike and the Liberal

:43:35. > :43:38.Democrats. I do not want to see Theresa May given a blank cheque on

:43:39. > :43:45.the Brexit negotiations. I feel like because she prefers the no deal over

:43:46. > :43:50.a bad deal, I do not want to see us fall off a cliff edge. I think she

:43:51. > :43:53.knows that will work for London and the finance industries, but it will

:43:54. > :44:01.not work for Wales. The gentleman here. Carwyn Jones, Leanne Wood, you

:44:02. > :44:07.both have wiped out plans for negotiations with the European Union

:44:08. > :44:14.and you are quite confident. How much of the European Union agreed to

:44:15. > :44:17.your plans? Negotiations have not started. Exactly, so what is the

:44:18. > :44:25.point of saying we have a plan and this is it. It is setting out

:44:26. > :44:29.guidelines. The only guidelines are basically amount to not leaving the

:44:30. > :44:36.European Union, let's take in the single market.

:44:37. > :44:42.Europe is our biggest market. We the US is a smaller market and it's

:44:43. > :44:46.further away. We do need to look at other markets. We need to look at

:44:47. > :44:49.the US, India and China. We worked hard to make sure that Tata

:44:50. > :44:53.succeeded in Wales, for example. There's nothing to stop us looking

:44:54. > :44:56.at other markets, but we cannot turn our back on the market that's

:44:57. > :45:02.closest to us, with 440 million consumers. And we don't need to. We

:45:03. > :45:04.can still deliver Brexit and have access to that market and respect

:45:05. > :45:09.the views that people expressed last year. We don't need a hard Brexit.

:45:10. > :45:14.What we need is a sensible Brexit. Very quickly, Mark and then Neil.

:45:15. > :45:21.Nobody's talking about turning our backs on Europe. We're not building

:45:22. > :45:25.a wall and stopping people from going across the channel. Let's not

:45:26. > :45:31.forget that our trade with the EU amounts to 7% of our national income

:45:32. > :45:37.- It's 67% of our exports. Maybe so. What do you mean maybe so? We have a

:45:38. > :45:42.trade deficit with the EU. 60 billion a year in their favour. With

:45:43. > :45:47.Germany, we have a 20 billion a year deficit with Germany alone in cars.

:45:48. > :45:50.There is every reason to think that the EU being rational will want a

:45:51. > :45:57.Free Trade Agreement with us which is what the British government is

:45:58. > :46:00.pushing for. There are 200,000 jobs in Wales currently reliant upon the

:46:01. > :46:05.single market. We have to have a starting position. You have to have

:46:06. > :46:10.a plan. Plaid Cymru has got a plan. What concerns me is that the Tories

:46:11. > :46:15.have no plan to safeguard those jobs. They've not shared with us

:46:16. > :46:19.what their starting position is. We don't know what their basic

:46:20. > :46:23.principles are. We have no idea how they're going to protect the

:46:24. > :46:27.agricultural industry or those 200,000 jobs reliant on the single

:46:28. > :46:32.market. Theresa May has said she'd rather walk away without a plan than

:46:33. > :46:37.to sign up to - without a deal than to sign up to a bad deal. That would

:46:38. > :46:42.be absolutely disastrous. So you want a bad deal do you? For the

:46:43. > :46:46.agricultural industry and many people in Wales who rely upon those

:46:47. > :46:50.jobs. It's simply unacceptable for the Tories to be in this position

:46:51. > :46:57.without one. Ukip don't have one either. It's not a war Neil. We need

:46:58. > :47:01.to try and find the best deal for all sides. It's not us versus them.

:47:02. > :47:06.That kind of talk going into the negotiations is already going to

:47:07. > :47:12.start us off on the wrong foot. APPLAUSE

:47:13. > :47:18.Can I just remind this audience and others what is at stake. Industry,

:47:19. > :47:22.the lamb industry for instance, 93% of of the exports which go to the

:47:23. > :47:27.European Union. Mrs May did have a bit a plan at the start. The bit of

:47:28. > :47:29.the plan was that the divorce proceedings would run concurrently

:47:30. > :47:34.with trade discussions. Thats not going to happen. We face the very

:47:35. > :47:39.real prospect at the end of the divorce proceedings of falling off

:47:40. > :47:42.the edge of a cliff with World Trade Organisation tariffs, which will be

:47:43. > :47:46.the death knell of much of the rural economy. Remember, we're not just

:47:47. > :47:51.talking about farming. We're talking about a broader rural economy, which

:47:52. > :47:55.without those subsidies will be seriously jeopardised. The question

:47:56. > :47:58.at the back mentioned about Tories representing rural constituencies.

:47:59. > :48:02.Can I assure you that the rolling shires of East Anglia are very

:48:03. > :48:10.different to the Uplands of Wales, where communities are at risk. Thank

:48:11. > :48:13.you very much. I don't think the other panellists were listening

:48:14. > :48:18.earlier when I made it clear what the plan was in terms of support for

:48:19. > :48:23.our farmers, which would continue until 2022, not 2020 which is the

:48:24. > :48:26.current arrangement under the EU. You've got no guarantees with

:48:27. > :48:31.anything else. What I will say is this: If you want to talk about

:48:32. > :48:34.farming, one party which is no friend of the farmer is the Labour

:48:35. > :48:37.Party. Just last week in the Assembly chamber we had Lesley

:48:38. > :48:40.Griffiths, the minister responsible for agriculture threatening our

:48:41. > :48:46.farmers with literally thousands more regulations. You've had Ian

:48:47. > :48:51.Lucas - Name three. Describing Brexit as an opportunity to slash

:48:52. > :49:00.budgets. He asked you to name three. I'm simply quoting - Name three.

:49:01. > :49:05.Just three. She also said - What about your leader, he's not here, is

:49:06. > :49:07.he? I think farmers do a good job running their businesses,

:49:08. > :49:12.contributing 5. 7 billion to the economy. Theresa May will never put

:49:13. > :49:16.that at risk I know lots of you want to come in.

:49:17. > :49:24.But we are really battling against the clock. I'm going to move on to

:49:25. > :49:29.talk about the party's economic policies. This time I want to go to

:49:30. > :49:34.Carol. Thank you very much. I wanted to ask you all with many people's

:49:35. > :49:39.wages stagnant or the rate of inflation negating pay rises, what

:49:40. > :49:43.are your parties' policies going to do to alleviate poverty in Welsh

:49:44. > :49:49.communities? Don't we need an end to austerity and a completely different

:49:50. > :49:52.plan? Do you mind, if I again, I'm going to do the same as before, ask

:49:53. > :49:57.you what are you hoping to hear? What's going to sway you? I need to

:49:58. > :50:00.hear something that's radically different because what's happening

:50:01. > :50:03.at the moment just does not work. We've got families living in poverty

:50:04. > :50:08.even though they're working two or three jobs. Define radically

:50:09. > :50:11.different for me in any kind of area of policy, tax, spending - what kind

:50:12. > :50:16.of radical change would you like to see? We need a different way of

:50:17. > :50:20.funding our communities. We need a different way of funding health and

:50:21. > :50:26.education. We need a chance for people who have very little income

:50:27. > :50:31.to keep what they have. We need those who are fortunate enough to

:50:32. > :50:35.earn plenty to be prepared to help until we can level things out. It is

:50:36. > :50:40.redistributing in a much bigger way, in a much more radical way than

:50:41. > :50:43.anybody's suggesting. Is any party getting close to what you want at

:50:44. > :50:50.this point or not? Not at the moment, no. Interesting. First one

:50:51. > :50:54.on this, Mark. Firstly, you say you're a teacher, I'm a former

:50:55. > :50:59.teacher too. Still a member of my union. They do good work in

:51:00. > :51:02.reminding the fact that the teaching profession, like the health

:51:03. > :51:06.profession, like people working in local government, have had a freeze

:51:07. > :51:11.on salaries, a 1% cap. That cap should be lifted. We need to be

:51:12. > :51:16.using this opportunity to invest in our economy. It's a very big

:51:17. > :51:19.question you pose, investment in big infrastructure proinjects that we

:51:20. > :51:24.hear a great deal of, at the end there's very little delivery on the

:51:25. > :51:28.ground. We think about the Swansea bay tidal lagoon project, the South

:51:29. > :51:32.Wales Metro, North Wales, electrification, proinjects like

:51:33. > :51:37.that. You specifically mentioned health. My party is unique amongst

:51:38. > :51:42.the parties here today talking about tax to fund our National Health

:51:43. > :51:48.Service. Particularly in those Cinderella services, mental health

:51:49. > :51:52.and care for the elderly, I'm muddling my words. That needs

:51:53. > :51:57.investment. That's why our party has said we need a penny on income tax.

:51:58. > :52:00.Having taken, I should add, in the last coalition Government, one of

:52:01. > :52:04.the rare aspects of coalition Government I fully endorse, taken

:52:05. > :52:08.many, many low paid workers out of tax all together, some four million

:52:09. > :52:11.tax taken out of work. We believe we should use the income tax system to

:52:12. > :52:15.put that investment in the National Health Service. There are also, I

:52:16. > :52:19.should say, a welter of benefits that the Conservative Party in the

:52:20. > :52:27.last two years have slashed or proposed to freeze and we believe

:52:28. > :52:32.those benefits should be upgraded and cuts to things like 19 to

:52:33. > :52:34.21-year-olds accessing housing benefits, that's denied by the

:52:35. > :52:38.Tories, we believe that should be re-instated. You believe in that

:52:39. > :52:42.penny on income tax. Your corporation tax plans as well

:52:43. > :52:48.involve an increase don't they? No, the corporation tax involve

:52:49. > :52:51.reversing the Tory cap, raising ?24 billion over the five-year period to

:52:52. > :52:54.fund the National Health Service. Because wherever you come from,

:52:55. > :52:58.whether it's an urban or rural area, you should agree that mental health

:52:59. > :53:02.services and care for the elderly are areas where we need more money

:53:03. > :53:06.that would free up ?300 million for Carwyn Jones and my colleagues from

:53:07. > :53:11.the Assembly to deliberate and I hope spend on the National Health

:53:12. > :53:15.Service. Neil? Ukip believes in spending an extra 9 billion a year

:53:16. > :53:18.on the Health Service. Another 2 billion on social care and the 9

:53:19. > :53:24.billion on the Health Service would include an extra 500 million for

:53:25. > :53:28.mental health as you rightly say the Cinderella of our medical services.

:53:29. > :53:33.We don't need to put up taxes to get this money. We can divert resources

:53:34. > :53:37.from other budgets. We would take it from the overseas aid budget, not

:53:38. > :53:43.humanitarian and crisis aid, but long-term strategic goal aid, which

:53:44. > :53:46.is often ineffective and can't be measured to see if it's working or

:53:47. > :53:54.not. We would take a lot of low earners out of the income tax net by

:53:55. > :53:58.pushing the threshold to 13,500 a year. The experience we've had in

:53:59. > :54:01.our life times is that the opposite happens, what we want to create in

:54:02. > :54:05.Britain and Wales in particular is an enterprise economy. The problem

:54:06. > :54:08.with Wales is that our private sector is too small to generate the

:54:09. > :54:12.wealth that we need to redistribute. We must do something to try and

:54:13. > :54:16.change the whole game plan for that. I'm in favour and my party's in

:54:17. > :54:20.favour ever devolving corporation tax powers to the Welsh Assembly,

:54:21. > :54:24.for example. So we can create in Wales a kind of tax haven status

:54:25. > :54:27.which the Irish Republic has successfully used in order to

:54:28. > :54:31.attract new industries, financial services industry have made their

:54:32. > :54:36.home in Dublin to the immince benefit of the -- immense benefit of

:54:37. > :54:40.the Irish economy. Thank you very much. Tax havens have no Health

:54:41. > :54:44.Service and poor spending on education, each and every one of

:54:45. > :54:47.them around the world. You asked the point what can we do? My case in

:54:48. > :54:50.point, there was a time when we used to say to people that the way out of

:54:51. > :54:54.poverty was to get a job. That doesn't happen any more. We've got

:54:55. > :54:59.nurses using food Banks. We saw the lowest paid have had tax credits

:55:00. > :55:02.taken away from them. Those who the richest had a tax cut. Those who are

:55:03. > :55:06.the poorest had a greater tax burden. We've got to change that.

:55:07. > :55:10.First of all, you have to make sure you create jobs. We've had seven

:55:11. > :55:15.years bumping along the floor. No-one can say Britain is flying at

:55:16. > :55:19.the moment, it's not. We when have inequality in society it's not

:55:20. > :55:23.something we can be proud of. People struggle still to make ends meet. We

:55:24. > :55:27.supported our steel industry, Tata. We spoke to them and enabled them to

:55:28. > :55:31.stay in Wales. UK Government didn't do a thing. We brought our national

:55:32. > :55:34.airport and made it the fastest growing airport in Britain at the

:55:35. > :55:37.same time, the Tories were happy to leave it closed and 1,000 jobs go

:55:38. > :55:43.with. It that's what they wanted to do. We brought in Aston Martin, TVR

:55:44. > :55:46.to name a view. We've got high employment, but there's more to do.

:55:47. > :55:51.There's still too much inequality. We need a UK Government to deal with

:55:52. > :55:54.the scandal of zero hours contracts. We need a Government to deal with

:55:55. > :55:57.ensuring there are more prosecutions for breaches of the minimum wage,

:55:58. > :56:02.because it's a UK Government that can do that. That's why we need a

:56:03. > :56:05.Labour Government in Westminster and a Labour Government in Cardiff

:56:06. > :56:14.working together to make our society more equal. Thank you very much.

:56:15. > :56:18.Leanne? I believe in the principle of public services. I believe that

:56:19. > :56:22.those people who are in the best position financially should pay the

:56:23. > :56:30.most towards them. But austerity is not working. The UK has got a debt

:56:31. > :56:35.of ?56 billion, sorry a deficit of ?56 billion and the debt is 1. 7

:56:36. > :56:40.billion and rising. That's after almost a decade of austerity. That

:56:41. > :56:44.shows to me the Tory austerity has failed and our public services and

:56:45. > :56:50.our infrastructure are crying out for investment. We're losing

:56:51. > :56:55.teachers. We can't get enough doctors into our Health Service. Our

:56:56. > :56:59.communities are losing funding through benefits cuts, the cuts to

:57:00. > :57:02.the communities first programme, objective one funding is going to be

:57:03. > :57:07.lost. So I'm concerned that some of those people who are currently

:57:08. > :57:11.living in poverty are going to be living in even worse poverty. What

:57:12. > :57:15.do we need to do about it? Well, we need to introduce a real living

:57:16. > :57:19.wage, not the joking wage. We need to make sure that pensioners are

:57:20. > :57:23.adequately provided for and that their care costs are not

:57:24. > :57:28.overburdensome. There needs to be an end to the benefit cuts programme

:57:29. > :57:32.and we need to devolve some aspects of our Social Security so that we

:57:33. > :57:36.can do things differently, so that we can treat people with dignity and

:57:37. > :57:42.respect. We need to end austerity. We need to stop those at the bottom

:57:43. > :57:45.of the pay scale have their frozen pay while those at the top,

:57:46. > :57:53.including MPs and other politicians, who've taken pay rises. That is not

:57:54. > :57:55.on, it has to stop. Thank you very much.

:57:56. > :57:59.APPLAUSE I think we have to remember what we

:58:00. > :58:05.inherited when a UK Prime Minister walked through the door at Number

:58:06. > :58:10.Ten back in 2010. We had a nation whose public finances were in

:58:11. > :58:14.tatters. Largest deficit since - in peacetime history. Our country was

:58:15. > :58:17.on the brink of bankruptcy. Since then, we've managed to get the

:58:18. > :58:23.deficit down by two thirds. There are 1. 2 million people here if

:58:24. > :58:27.Wales have had a tax cut since 2010 because of a result of changes to

:58:28. > :58:33.the personal allowance. 174,000 people have been taken out of tax

:58:34. > :58:38.all together. We've had the national living wage, which has given people

:58:39. > :58:43.an increase at the very lowest level in terms of the lowest paid in our

:58:44. > :58:48.country. And we've got many more people, 122,000 more people back in

:58:49. > :58:52.work in Wales that weren't in work previously - On low paid jobs and

:58:53. > :58:56.zero hours contracts. What we've got to do is deliver on some of the

:58:57. > :58:59.things which we've already set out and started the ball rolling on.

:59:00. > :59:05.We've got to get on with delivering on the 1. 2 billion capital city

:59:06. > :59:08.deal for Cardiff. We've got to get on in terms of delivering the

:59:09. > :59:13.Swansea bay city deal, which has been worked up with the Welsh

:59:14. > :59:18.Government as well. We're making significant investment in that too.

:59:19. > :59:21.There's a clear commitment to scrap the Severn crossing tolls which will

:59:22. > :59:25.add 100 million according to the Welsh Government's own estimates

:59:26. > :59:29.into the Welsh economy. We've got to secure a growth deal as well for

:59:30. > :59:32.North Wales and be active about getting local authorities and other

:59:33. > :59:36.stake holders actually bringing one to the table. If we do that, we can

:59:37. > :59:39.be very optimistic about the opportunities that Wales has going

:59:40. > :59:51.forward in terms of creating new jobs and prosperity for all.

:59:52. > :59:59.The tidal lagoon, was that part of the list? Our position on that has

:00:00. > :00:03.not changed. We have always been supporters of delivering a Swansea

:00:04. > :00:08.tidal lagoon in Swansea Bay. Of course at the moment the Hendry

:00:09. > :00:14.review has reported and that review is being looked at by the UK

:00:15. > :00:18.Department for Energy and Climate Change. Once that report is back to

:00:19. > :00:24.ministers after the election, I am hopeful for a positive outcome. The

:00:25. > :00:30.tidal lagoon not just in Swansea Bay, but also in North Wales, offer

:00:31. > :00:35.massive opportunities. Very hopeful or very confident? I am very hopeful

:00:36. > :00:39.there will be a positive outcome. We have to make sure it will be a good

:00:40. > :00:44.deal for taxpayers and that is the right and sensible thing to do. You

:00:45. > :00:49.are massive fans of it because presumably you think it will be a

:00:50. > :00:55.good deal for taxpayers, is that right? I am very hopeful it will be.

:00:56. > :00:59.The Hendry review sets a way forward and UK ministers are considering

:01:00. > :01:02.that at the moment. It is not just about Swansea, we have got to look

:01:03. > :01:09.at opportunities in the North Wales coast. The lady in the front. The

:01:10. > :01:15.entire panel has failed to address the female half of the population

:01:16. > :01:19.and one of our biggest barriers to re-entering employment is the cost

:01:20. > :01:23.of childcare. The women's equality party have a radical policy on

:01:24. > :01:27.childcare and I would like to know if any of the panel has engaged with

:01:28. > :01:34.them to look at that. We saw Jeremy Corbyn today get into a little spot

:01:35. > :01:41.of bother getting figures into the cost of Labour's policies. What is

:01:42. > :01:45.your thought on that? One of our commitments was to introduce

:01:46. > :01:49.childcare for 3-4 -year-olds and we think that is a good investment in

:01:50. > :01:54.families and it would enable women to get back to work if there is a

:01:55. > :01:59.barrier to them getting back to work. There are several pilots

:02:00. > :02:04.already in Wales and that is an example of us working to make sure

:02:05. > :02:09.that as many barriers as possible are removed to women going back to

:02:10. > :02:16.employment, so women can go back to work and increase incomes in their

:02:17. > :02:22.pockets. On a daily basis people struggle to see how that childcare

:02:23. > :02:31.initiative will work in their lives. Leanne? The Labour position is

:02:32. > :02:35.interesting on this. What about your position? I live in a local

:02:36. > :02:39.authority that used to provide education for children from the age

:02:40. > :02:45.of three years old and as part of austerity that has disappeared. We

:02:46. > :02:47.are talking about reintroducing provision for 3-4 -year-olds and

:02:48. > :02:53.Plaid Cymru wants to introduce provision for two-year-olds outside

:02:54. > :02:56.the flying start area and that would involve investment over and above

:02:57. > :03:02.what is currently invested in childcare at the moment to the tune

:03:03. > :03:11.of an extra ?50 million. Are you satisfied with the answer? Is that a

:03:12. > :03:17.yes? It is a very cautious yes. Yes, I am. Anyone in this corner? The

:03:18. > :03:23.gentleman here. I graduated three years ago with a good degree from a

:03:24. > :03:27.good university. I have got a relatively good job. It pays

:03:28. > :03:32.relatively well, but even on that salary the idea I might be able to

:03:33. > :03:36.save enough to buy my own home any time soon is a pipe dream. What

:03:37. > :03:40.would the panel say to younger people like me who want to own their

:03:41. > :03:48.own home but for whom it is impossible at the moment? Yes, sir.

:03:49. > :03:54.The question I asked, which party is in the best position to address the

:03:55. > :03:59.redistribution of wealth? Surely that is the Communist party. But in

:04:00. > :04:06.this election the Communist party are standing down to enable comrades

:04:07. > :04:10.Corbyn to be elected. Carwyn Jones did a very good job at distancing

:04:11. > :04:18.himself from his leader, but at the end of the day of 04 car window is a

:04:19. > :04:24.vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Do you think the question has been answered or

:04:25. > :04:31.not? No. What policies would alleviate poverty? Generation after

:04:32. > :04:38.generation a lot of people are making a good living out of poverty.

:04:39. > :04:41.What do you mean by that? In terms of the Labour Party and various

:04:42. > :04:46.parties it is in their interests to keep people at a certain level to

:04:47. > :04:51.justify their position. That is quite a thought. We had this

:04:52. > :04:56.conversation before many times. The Labour Party in 1945 at a time of

:04:57. > :05:01.great austerity after award created the NHS to put people in jobs, gave

:05:02. > :05:08.people the training they needed, created the boom of the 1950s. To

:05:09. > :05:12.suggest the Labour Party revels in poverty I find offensive. We have

:05:13. > :05:15.done everything we can to raise people out of poverty even as the

:05:16. > :05:25.Conservative have put people back into poverty. The lady in the

:05:26. > :05:30.centre. To the Tory member, you seem quite proud of the deficit coming

:05:31. > :05:35.down. I personally believe austerity has a human cost. Were you affected

:05:36. > :05:43.at all by austerity? I have seen it a lot.

:05:44. > :05:47.APPLAUSE I have seen decisions of the Welsh

:05:48. > :05:51.Labour government supported by Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems to cut NHS

:05:52. > :05:56.spending in Wales. It is a fact. That is nonsense. We

:05:57. > :06:04.spend more per head than any other country. We are clear that Wales had

:06:05. > :06:09.the deepest record-breaking cuts of any UK nation as a result of

:06:10. > :06:15.decisions... Ask them what they think. Carwyn Jones harps on about

:06:16. > :06:20.the fact we spend more on health per head than we do in England. That is

:06:21. > :06:25.right, but we ought to be spending more because our levels of

:06:26. > :06:29.deprivation and need mean we need more spending. For every ?1 that

:06:30. > :06:35.Wales gets under the Barnett Formula, for every pound that is

:06:36. > :06:43.spent in England, Wales gets ?1.20, so why are we only spending 70%?

:06:44. > :06:48.What we need is a very different approach. You can harp on all you

:06:49. > :06:53.want, but at the end of the day these are crocodile tears. There are

:06:54. > :06:57.people waiting in pain, languishing on waiting lists and Carwyn Jones is

:06:58. > :07:06.refurbishing his offices at a cost of millions of pounds. Hang on a

:07:07. > :07:10.second, the lady here. This is directed at you, Darren. Under the

:07:11. > :07:17.Tory government that we have seen massive reduction in benefits for

:07:18. > :07:21.disabled and vulnerable people. The UN censored the Westminster

:07:22. > :07:25.government for this level of cuts. Going forward are you going to

:07:26. > :07:30.promise that we are not going to see this continuous attack on disabled

:07:31. > :07:35.and vulnerable people in terms of their benefits? The more you take

:07:36. > :07:39.away from them, the harder it becomes for people to integrate in

:07:40. > :07:44.society and the harder it is for them to get jobs. When you take away

:07:45. > :07:48.a mobility vehicle it prevents that person from getting the job. I know

:07:49. > :07:54.of people who have had a job, had the vehicle taken away, had to rely

:07:55. > :07:58.on public transport, and because of the lack of public assistance they

:07:59. > :08:02.have not been able to go to work and they have lost their job and are in

:08:03. > :08:08.a worse situation. So the direct point is what? We want a promise

:08:09. > :08:12.from the Westminster government that they will stop this attack on

:08:13. > :08:18.disabled people and start enabling rather than actually removing

:08:19. > :08:23.benefits. There has been no attack on disabled people. What we have

:08:24. > :08:26.seen our record numbers of disabled people back in the workplace, having

:08:27. > :08:36.the dignity of their own job and their own income. The Conservative

:08:37. > :08:39.Party, it was a Conservative government under John Major that

:08:40. > :08:43.introduced the disability discrimination act and we have got a

:08:44. > :08:49.very proud record. Giving people the dignity of being able to enter the

:08:50. > :08:52.workplace, and I have met many disabled people who have been in my

:08:53. > :08:58.office and said what a rewarding experience it is to getting into a

:08:59. > :09:08.workplace and earning your own living. That is what most disabled

:09:09. > :09:15.people actually want. He has not got a clue. Why? He has not spoken to

:09:16. > :09:21.people who have had their benefits cut. This is hypocrisy. Not only

:09:22. > :09:24.have the cut benefits, they have also cut the block grants to the

:09:25. > :09:30.national Assembly and cuts to this grant and cuts to benefits have a

:09:31. > :09:35.knock-on impact elsewhere. Mental health services cost more to

:09:36. > :09:40.provide, social services, housing services, they cost more to provide

:09:41. > :09:45.when people are desperate. If you speak to people running food banks

:09:46. > :09:48.they say people are using them because of change to benefits and

:09:49. > :09:57.delays to benefits being paid. You need to get out and speak to more

:09:58. > :10:02.people. And also that work capability assessment is completely

:10:03. > :10:06.unfit for purpose. Far from raising self-esteem and dignity it destroys

:10:07. > :10:15.people and that has to go as well. Neil. The talk of austerity is

:10:16. > :10:19.misplaced because no government in peacetime history has borrowed more

:10:20. > :10:23.money than the government of George Osborne and Philip Hammond. Nearly

:10:24. > :10:29.?1 trillion has been borrowed since 2010. But they have got the wrong

:10:30. > :10:35.spending priorities. We have legislated to increase the overseas

:10:36. > :10:41.aid budget to 0.7% of GDP. That would be ?50 billion a year in two

:10:42. > :10:46.years' time. A lot of that money is wasted and it should be redirected

:10:47. > :10:52.into disabled people's benefits, the health service and so on and so

:10:53. > :10:56.forth. Ill thought out schemes like the bedroom tax made life difficult

:10:57. > :11:01.for people who are the most vulnerable in society. At the end of

:11:02. > :11:05.the day, the only way we can alleviate poverty in this country or

:11:06. > :11:10.any country is to have a growing economy which will generate the

:11:11. > :11:16.wealth which we can then redistribute. It will not come from

:11:17. > :11:23.tax increases or from the Treasury either, or you can borrow

:11:24. > :11:29.indefinitely. It will come from the EU. That is our money. Labour's

:11:30. > :11:34.programme has another 45 billion black holes they cannot explain for

:11:35. > :11:39.this election now. You cannot go on for ever spending money you have not

:11:40. > :11:42.got, somebody has to pay it back eventually. A gentleman in the back

:11:43. > :11:50.row who has been waiting very patiently. I want to go to the

:11:51. > :11:53.Conservative guy. How can you pick on all these pensioners and then

:11:54. > :12:01.justify by filling MP's pockets by a 10% pay rise? Who would like to

:12:02. > :12:07.tackle that? You are right about the issue of the MPs' pay rise and I

:12:08. > :12:12.suspect like Assembly members there is a difficulty in not taking the

:12:13. > :12:16.pay rise, but there was an issue where we as individuals could spend

:12:17. > :12:21.the pay rise. You are right to highlight that issue, it is an issue

:12:22. > :12:26.of great concern. You are right also to mention the issue of principles

:12:27. > :12:31.and pensions. What we have not heard much about is the abandonment of the

:12:32. > :12:36.triple lock on pensions which guarantees people's pensions at a

:12:37. > :12:41.decent level. Not enough but better than before, to be replaced by a

:12:42. > :12:44.double lock pension. What is the double lock pension? Will it mean

:12:45. > :12:52.that pensions rise or are they more likely to fall? If I can make it

:12:53. > :12:56.clear and respond to the point. We are supporting pensioners. What you

:12:57. > :13:02.have seen since 2010 is pensioners get an increase in their income of

:13:03. > :13:07.?1250 a year by the next financial tax year. That is in terms of their

:13:08. > :13:12.basic state pension. That is a far cry from the 25p that was added by

:13:13. > :13:16.Gordon Brown when he was Prime Minister. We guarantee the triple

:13:17. > :13:18.lock until 2020 and beyond that double lock so that pensions rise

:13:19. > :13:34.either with or inflation, whichever is

:13:35. > :13:36.higher. That is a fair deal for our pensioners. We want to see some

:13:37. > :13:38.legislation in the national Assembly to ensure older people's rights are

:13:39. > :13:42.enshrined in law. Children's rights and other people's rights, so why

:13:43. > :13:45.not pensioners? I will come back to Carol in a second too asked the

:13:46. > :13:47.question. The lady here first of all.

:13:48. > :13:55.The NHS is already in decline, how do you plan to address the potential

:13:56. > :14:00.NHS employee shortage that would be caused by Brexit and new immigration

:14:01. > :14:06.rules? Can we just, Neil, given that you have a perspective on this, can

:14:07. > :14:09.you answer that? The impact of Brexit on staffing in the NHS. How

:14:10. > :14:14.do you deal with that? There should be no problem at all. As with every

:14:15. > :14:17.other country in the world, which manages and controls immigration,

:14:18. > :14:22.you can select the groups of people that you want. The problem that -

:14:23. > :14:26.There's no impact? Well, there shouldn't be any impact. At the

:14:27. > :14:31.minute we do in effect discriminate against the world -- the rest of the

:14:32. > :14:37.world by having free movement in the EU and control in the rest of the

:14:38. > :14:40.world. What we want is to have a non-discriminatory immigration

:14:41. > :14:43.policy which applies equally to all countries in the world and every

:14:44. > :14:46.year we will see what the skills gaps are in our economy and we will

:14:47. > :14:49.make provision for that in the numbers that we allow to come here.

:14:50. > :14:54.Is that a credible answer, what do you think? Successive Welsh

:14:55. > :14:57.governments of Labour, Plaid Cymru and Labour and the Lib Dems and

:14:58. > :15:02.Labour have not trained enough doctors and nurses. That's why we're

:15:03. > :15:05.in this pickle. We have doctors surgeries closing in some parts of

:15:06. > :15:10.Wales, including my own constituency - The Brexit impact on the NHS

:15:11. > :15:13.staffing, what is the impact? There will be a merit based immigration

:15:14. > :15:17.system which will ensure that we've got the skill that's we need here in

:15:18. > :15:21.Wales and across the United Kingdom, including the skills that we require

:15:22. > :15:24.for our Health Service. Are you concerned about the potential impact

:15:25. > :15:27.on the Health Service? I'm not concerned because we actually have

:15:28. > :15:30.people coming from outside the European Union into the Health

:15:31. > :15:35.Service right now. If you go into any hospital in Wales, you will see

:15:36. > :15:37.that is absolutely the case. That can continue, but fundamentally we

:15:38. > :15:40.need to get back to training enough doctors in Wales rather than having

:15:41. > :15:48.to import them from elsewhere. Lady in the corner. Going back to

:15:49. > :15:53.the pensions questions, what about the waspy situation, the ladies of

:15:54. > :15:57.the 1950s who are not able to get their pensions until age 66 and they

:15:58. > :16:05.were never told. What do you plan to do about that? Thank you very much.

:16:06. > :16:11.Gentleman here in the front. My concern with Brexit is we're going

:16:12. > :16:17.to lose money in terms of EU funding, now my concern would you

:16:18. > :16:22.start cutting on the basic vital sectors in society, like NHS,

:16:23. > :16:26.education, or basic benefits? One of the US presidents before being

:16:27. > :16:31.elected he said, read my lips, there will be no tax cut. And the first

:16:32. > :16:37.thing he did after winning the election is he arranged the taxes.

:16:38. > :16:43.Can you give me the security openly that you will not do these cuts? The

:16:44. > :16:47.record of the UK Conservative-led Government since 2010 is one of

:16:48. > :16:53.additional increases in NHS expenditure to record levels. What

:16:54. > :16:57.we saw in Wales was actually cuts. Cuts which delivered longer waiting

:16:58. > :17:01.times than in England, longer waiting times for diagnostic tests

:17:02. > :17:05.and treatment, worse ambulance statistics - Much better than

:17:06. > :17:09.England. Much better. Many more people waiting more than four hours

:17:10. > :17:14.in our emergency departments than they should be. That is a legacy of

:17:15. > :17:19.failure that all the parties here on the panel are responsible for. We've

:17:20. > :17:22.got to get back to insetting properly in our National Health

:17:23. > :17:27.Service. There will be an additional ?400 million available to Wales over

:17:28. > :17:30.the course of the next Parliament if Theresa May is Prime Minister

:17:31. > :17:34.specifically for the Health Service. I want Carwyn Jones to guarantee

:17:35. > :17:40.that money will be passed on, I suspect he won't. If we get massive

:17:41. > :17:43.cuts everywhere else but more money for health it's a zero sum game. You

:17:44. > :17:50.didn't pass all the money on in the last Parliament. You can't divorce

:17:51. > :17:55.the two, per head, 7% more. We see a doctors strike in England, a new

:17:56. > :17:59.cancer centre being built in Cardiff on your doorstep, a neonatal care

:18:00. > :18:03.unit being built now. They would not have been built if they were in

:18:04. > :18:10.England. They are because we decided to invest in Wales. The last thing

:18:11. > :18:15.we should do is make Britain appear unfriendly to doctors from other

:18:16. > :18:18.countries. Medicine is a portable qualification. The last thing we

:18:19. > :18:21.should do is make the UK look like a place that is unfriendly to

:18:22. > :18:25.recruiting doctors and nurses from abroad when 6% of our doctors come

:18:26. > :18:28.from the EU. We have to look unfriendly to the rest of the world

:18:29. > :18:33.because we have free movement in the EU. That's what we want to change.

:18:34. > :18:37.More unfriendly. Quite the opposite. I'm sorry. I know you're trying to

:18:38. > :18:43.get in. I need to move on. A few minutes left. The final question.

:18:44. > :18:47.Rachel, where are you? You're a student, I believe. Yeah. Could you

:18:48. > :18:50.tell us, where are you studying? Cardiff University. A fine choice,

:18:51. > :18:54.if I may say. So what's your question. My question is: With the

:18:55. > :18:58.future looking so uncertain at the minute, what is the panel's view for

:18:59. > :19:03.Wales' position within the UK within the next ten years? We are up

:19:04. > :19:07.against the clock my dear friends, so on this I really do want you to

:19:08. > :19:11.be concise. I'm going to start with, I think it's Neil's turn this time.

:19:12. > :19:14.I want to reverse the trend of my lifetime where Wales has gone

:19:15. > :19:19.backwards relatively within the UK. We're now at the bottom of the table

:19:20. > :19:25.of the nations and regions of the UK in terms of income and gross value

:19:26. > :19:28.added. That's a relic of failure by Labour governments and Conservative

:19:29. > :19:31.governments as well. What we need is to create an enterprise economy in

:19:32. > :19:37.the new wide world that we're going to rejoin as a result of leaving the

:19:38. > :19:40.EU and so, raise the income levels of Wales by inacrossing a business

:19:41. > :19:44.friendly environment here which is going to generate the wealth that we

:19:45. > :19:48.all need to redistribute. What I don't want is a Wales of Tory cuts,

:19:49. > :19:52.a Wales where young people are ignored and squeezed, where older

:19:53. > :19:55.people are cast onto the scrap heap, where entrepreneurship is not

:19:56. > :19:59.rewarded, public services are destroyed as they are in England.

:20:00. > :20:02.People might think the things will carry on as they are, things will

:20:03. > :20:06.get a lot worse. We've had seven years of Tory cuts. We will get a

:20:07. > :20:09.lot more. I want a Wales where fairness, justice and opportunities

:20:10. > :20:13.are not optional extras, but they're part of what we do as a society. A

:20:14. > :20:17.Wales where people are given a chance to flourish, where young

:20:18. > :20:21.people have investment made in their skills, where older people are

:20:22. > :20:24.looked after, and above all else, where business newerish to create

:20:25. > :20:27.the income to pay for our public services. That's my Wales. I believe

:20:28. > :20:34.that's your Wales and together we can build that Wales

:20:35. > :20:43.Leanne? As we look to the future, I see the Muller Anniversary Gameses

:20:44. > :20:46.potential that -- the amazing potential we have, I hope you would

:20:47. > :20:50.agree that Wales could be doing even better as a nation. We already have

:20:51. > :20:55.a country we can be proud of. But we can be doing so much better. We've

:20:56. > :21:00.got potential in our economy, in our energy, in our NHS, our education

:21:01. > :21:06.systems. Potential that is yet to be unlocked. Over the next five to ten

:21:07. > :21:10.years, I want to see that potential unlocked with a Plaid Cymru

:21:11. > :21:16.government in an Assembly which has more powers and which becomes a real

:21:17. > :21:20.Parliament capable of providing real improvements in people's lives, a

:21:21. > :21:25.strong team of Plaid Cymru MPs can help our country by ensuring that

:21:26. > :21:30.the Brexit deal that we get helps our economy instead of holding it

:21:31. > :21:36.back. So get behind Plaid Cymru in this election and join me in working

:21:37. > :21:43.towards a more positive future for Wales.

:21:44. > :21:46.Thank you very much. Daran? I believe the future of Wales and the

:21:47. > :21:50.future of the United Kingdom can be fantastic outside the European

:21:51. > :21:54.Union, but it's very important that we support, that we secure the right

:21:55. > :21:58.deal as part of the negotiation process which will start just 11

:21:59. > :22:01.days after the vote next week. I believe that the best person to

:22:02. > :22:06.deliver the right deal for Wales and the rest of the UK is Theresa May. I

:22:07. > :22:11.don't accept that Jeremy Corbyn is the right man for the job. What we

:22:12. > :22:15.will do in delivering on the referendum result, people in Wales

:22:16. > :22:19.voted for leaving the EU remember, is we will actually begin to be able

:22:20. > :22:23.to take control of our own laws so that laws made it Westminster and

:22:24. > :22:29.Cardiff are the ones which actually affect people's lives. We'll be able

:22:30. > :22:31.to take control of our own borders, our own money, whilst we build a

:22:32. > :22:36.deep and special relationship, yes, with the rest of the EU, but also

:22:37. > :22:41.with the wider world. That's where the opportunities lie. Our National

:22:42. > :22:45.Assembly will receive more powers, which will be devolved to it as a

:22:46. > :22:49.result of the Brexit process. I'm confident that will strengthen our

:22:50. > :22:53.devolved institutions as well across the UK. I'm very excited about the

:22:54. > :22:57.opportunities for Wales post Brexit. I believe that Theresa May is the

:22:58. > :22:59.right person to be leading those negotiations so that we get the best

:23:00. > :23:12.possible deal. Thank you. Mark. The Wales in which

:23:13. > :23:13.I live with my family is warm, embracing, tolerant, united,

:23:14. > :23:17.community-based - they're qualities we should be proud of and we should

:23:18. > :23:21.strengthen. I look it a Wales that is strong within the United Kingdom.

:23:22. > :23:26.Its voice is heard around the tables of Whitehall and elsewhere. A whauls

:23:27. > :23:30.that acknowledges -- Whitehall that acknowledges its responsibilities to

:23:31. > :23:33.Wales, whether that be funding, or as we move forward to devolution,

:23:34. > :23:38.making my colleagues here the real decision makers for Wales, not

:23:39. > :23:42.dependent on decisions by UK ministers. A Wales that has a role

:23:43. > :23:46.in the world. Yes, there are opportunities with Brexit. But even

:23:47. > :23:51.at this point, where we are now, let's not turn our back on Europe,

:23:52. > :23:58.that has been good for Wales. We must remember that. As we conclude

:23:59. > :24:04.this last of the leaders' debates, I think, just to say that no one party

:24:05. > :24:07.has a monopoly of love of this country or a desire to defend its

:24:08. > :24:10.interests. That's the responsibility of all of us, regardless of our

:24:11. > :24:13.party. Thank you very much. Thank you for those statements.

:24:14. > :24:18.APPLAUSE We've just got a matter of seconds

:24:19. > :24:21.left. Rachel, you asked the question, as a student, you're

:24:22. > :24:27.looking ahead to your career and life and I'm thinking about what's

:24:28. > :24:31.been said here about Wales, what's your perspective? I resonate most

:24:32. > :24:36.with Leanne. I think Wales has a lot of potential. It will be amazing to

:24:37. > :24:39.see Welsh patriotism go beyond just Welsh rugby matches and for our

:24:40. > :24:42.language and for our country to be taken more seriously. Thank you very

:24:43. > :24:45.much. Carol, you asked the question earlier, what's your perspective as

:24:46. > :24:50.we close this debate, we're looking ahead to the Wales of five, ten

:24:51. > :24:53.years hence. A grow with what three of the panel have said in their

:24:54. > :24:59.final closing, that Wales is a wonderful country. I chose to live

:25:00. > :25:03.here, I sadly wasn't born here. I am very concerned that at least two of

:25:04. > :25:06.our guests this evening seem to have no understanding of how ordinary

:25:07. > :25:15.Welsh people are living. Thank you very much. Very brief. With regards

:25:16. > :25:22.to Mark Williams, you talk about defending Wales and standing up for

:25:23. > :25:26.Wales, well, as the Welsh MP that's performing worst in Westminster, you

:25:27. > :25:30.are hardly the person or the party to really defend Wales. In all

:25:31. > :25:35.fairness, Mark doesn't even have time to come back on this. Are you

:25:36. > :25:41.saying no? I'm saying no. Fine. One very quickly. Thank you very much.

:25:42. > :25:44.For all of you, particularly for the First Minister, who is effectively

:25:45. > :25:50.Prime Minister of Wales, next five, ten years, your stats from your own

:25:51. > :25:53.government says for the 16 to 64-year-olds the percentage of

:25:54. > :25:57.unemployed drawing unemployment benefit, number one in the UK,

:25:58. > :26:02.number one north-east, number two Wales. ? Thank you very much. Lots

:26:03. > :26:07.of very strongly made points. I'm afraid, Sir, and to all of you here,

:26:08. > :26:12.our time sup. I'm really sorry. 90 minutes has flown, thanks to our

:26:13. > :26:17.politicians, thanks to the audience, here at the SSC Swalec stadium. I'm

:26:18. > :26:20.sorry for those I didn't get in. The debate continues with a special

:26:21. > :26:25.programme on BBC Two Wales right now. You can continue to have your

:26:26. > :26:30.say on social media. The hashtag is BBC Wales debate. A full list of

:26:31. > :26:34.candidates by the way, standing in this election is available on the

:26:35. > :26:36.BBC website. So, from Cardiff, thank you all for watching. Just over a

:26:37. > :26:43.week left to make up your mind. Diolch am wylio, nos

:26:44. > :26:52.da, have a good night.