:00:14. > :00:43.And there was a time when a lesser figure then Benjamin Disraeli said
:00:44. > :00:48.that an architect be hanged. The current Houses of Parliament rose
:00:49. > :00:54.from the ashes of the fire and that story is told today. Her is Mr
:00:55. > :01:00.Barry's war Caroline, the Mr Barry was the architect of the Victorian
:01:01. > :01:05.building the we knew today and he worked with a medievalist designer.
:01:06. > :01:10.What was the nature of the partnership? Who did what? Charles
:01:11. > :01:18.Barry was the architect in charge. He brought people into help him.
:01:19. > :01:25.Barry was a brilliant classical architect, fantastic at ground
:01:26. > :01:30.planning. To get the Gothic detailing that was required by the
:01:31. > :01:35.rules. Thereafter, they had a partnership on and off in creating
:01:36. > :01:39.this amazingly famous building. The Gothic detailing is what makes the
:01:40. > :01:49.Palace of Westminster, isn't it? The gold, murals, the statue. It is what
:01:50. > :01:54.makes the Palace of Westminster on the service. You have to remember
:01:55. > :01:57.this is extraordinary in terms of its planning, the way it is laid
:01:58. > :02:01.out. The way that people can circulate around it. That was
:02:02. > :02:06.Barry's real genius and contribution to the overall plan. He was the
:02:07. > :02:10.person who was having to deal with all of the politics, the reputation
:02:11. > :02:14.issues associated with building the Palace as well. This was a great
:02:15. > :02:23.mega project of its error with vast amount of public and political and
:02:24. > :02:29.royal -- its era. Did it ever buckle under the strain of scrutiny? It
:02:30. > :02:35.started off well. His co-architect regarded Barry as his mental. Both
:02:36. > :02:44.men were geniuses. They were the only men who understood each other.
:02:45. > :02:46.-- was his mental. They had very different personalities, Barry was
:02:47. > :02:53.very measured, tactful, good politics. Kept to a regular routine.
:02:54. > :02:56.Had a very stable home life throughout the course of the
:02:57. > :03:03.building. His co-architect was very emotional. Had affairs, married
:03:04. > :03:07.three times. You always know what he's thinking about. His letters
:03:08. > :03:15.survive and you have a really good of the ups and downs of where he
:03:16. > :03:19.was. Barry's correspondence was destroyed either by him by his son
:03:20. > :03:28.'s subsequent to his death. We have do understand him through first-hand
:03:29. > :03:35.accounts. We never hear his voice. Let's go back to the great fire that
:03:36. > :03:41.destroyed Parliament. Was it immediately obvious that they were
:03:42. > :03:46.going to rebuild on that site? There was considerable debate following
:03:47. > :03:52.the fire as to whether Parliament should move away altogether. There
:03:53. > :03:59.have been suggestions leading up to the fire that Regents Park should be
:04:00. > :04:04.chosen. In fact became actually offered Buckingham Palace. He hated
:04:05. > :04:11.Buckingham Palace. That was rejected. Within five days of the
:04:12. > :04:14.fire itself, the person in charge of royal palaces at the time decided
:04:15. > :04:20.that there would be temporarily changes built on site for the
:04:21. > :04:28.duration of any rebuilding and then they let a competition happen to
:04:29. > :04:31.enable an architect to come forward. By a competition? One of the
:04:32. > :04:39.interesting things about the competition brief was that it had to
:04:40. > :04:44.be in a Gothic or Elizabethan style. Why a competition, why a style?
:04:45. > :04:50.Initially it was thought that it was going to go to Robert Smirk. He was
:04:51. > :04:53.a favourite of Robert Peel, the Prime Minister. There was a
:04:54. > :05:01.firestorm of complaint in the press and the public realm and so Smack
:05:02. > :05:06.didn't get the job and it was decided that there would be a public
:05:07. > :05:14.competition. Anyone could enter and would pay a pound to get the ground
:05:15. > :05:18.plans for the site. One of the key roles set by the members was that it
:05:19. > :05:22.should be in the Gothic or Elizabethan style and by Elizabethan
:05:23. > :05:25.they meant perpendicular Gothic, like you get at Kings College
:05:26. > :05:31.Cambridge, for example. One of the reasons they said that in the
:05:32. > :05:40.competition was that the ruined Chapel of Saint Stephen 's revealed
:05:41. > :05:43.again because of the fire had come back to life having been bad back,
:05:44. > :05:47.it was their right on the doorstep. As they would debating what was
:05:48. > :05:56.going to be happening. I think that influenced them tremendously in
:05:57. > :06:00.terms of what style. So they had a Gothic masterpiece right in the
:06:01. > :06:04.middle of the site. Yes, tottering. Still there. You talked a lot
:06:05. > :06:07.earlier about how Barry's genius meant that the public could
:06:08. > :06:12.circulate around and that of course is a complete contrast to what had
:06:13. > :06:15.gone before because the old Palace of Westminster which was destroyed
:06:16. > :06:20.by fire was basically a higgledy-piggledy conglomeration of
:06:21. > :06:24.buildings over the centuries. Was there an idea that there was
:06:25. > :06:33.something much better organised in the future needed? Yes. Much bigger
:06:34. > :06:39.spaces, dedicated division lobbies, enough space for libraries, four
:06:40. > :06:45.restaurants. It is to meet constituents. It was actually very
:06:46. > :06:48.specifically laid out in the competition rules what was required.
:06:49. > :06:59.How good was the competition entries that came in Chris McCann many? 97
:07:00. > :07:09.entries. --? How many? Some were completely mad. Somewhat pedestrian.
:07:10. > :07:14.A handful will really interesting. The judges found themselves having
:07:15. > :07:17.to look through 1400 different drawings from the competitors to
:07:18. > :07:25.decide who was going to win. What sort of Houses of Parliament might
:07:26. > :07:32.we have had? Thomas Hopper who was a favourite architect of George IV put
:07:33. > :07:39.forward a scheme where he was going to doubles and Stephen's Chapel and
:07:40. > :07:44.have the old building being the new House of Commons and the new
:07:45. > :07:47.duplicate Saint Stephen's coming the House of Lords. He also proposed
:07:48. > :07:51.doubling Westminster Hall. I can't imagine how that would have worked
:07:52. > :08:00.or what they would have been used for. His scheme was pretty wacky.
:08:01. > :08:07.And an entry that didn't get sent in is portrayed in a painting by an
:08:08. > :08:12.architect called JM Gandhi and he has created a giant classical
:08:13. > :08:16.Sennett house in St James's Park for the House of Lords which is an
:08:17. > :08:21.absolutely hilarious thing. Extraordinary designs that have come
:08:22. > :08:24.forward. Barry wins it. Incidentally, Augustus Pugin was to
:08:25. > :08:31.timing him at this point working for another designer. 'S right. To make
:08:32. > :08:38.one was known as being very good -- Augustus Pugin was known for being
:08:39. > :08:44.very good at Gothic design. He was doing the whole design on his other
:08:45. > :08:50.one, but Barry had his design and he asked Augustus Pugin to add to it.
:08:51. > :08:55.He would change Augustus Pugin's designed after he received the extra
:08:56. > :09:00.things that Augustus Pugin had put on. It was a melding of the two
:09:01. > :09:04.men's genius. And Barry and Augustus Pugin won hands down. It was thought
:09:05. > :09:11.to be the outstanding entry. Augustus Pugin was not credited. It
:09:12. > :09:19.was Barry's name that when Ford as the architect. That was the start of
:09:20. > :09:23.a quarter of a century long project. It was not smooth sailing the whole
:09:24. > :09:27.way through. Augustus Pugin went for three years to do his own
:09:28. > :09:34.architectural project... Practice and then Barry asked to come back in
:09:35. > :09:38.the middle of the 18 1840s with rooms that he was having problems
:09:39. > :09:43.with, particularly the Royal throne. Augustus Pugin came back in the
:09:44. > :09:49.mid-18 40s and initially there collaboration was very friendly. As
:09:50. > :09:55.the pressure of the project continued, the money started to run
:09:56. > :10:01.out, Barry had to cut Augustus Pugin's salary as well as his own.
:10:02. > :10:04.And poor old Augustus Pugin, unbeknownst to everybody, had this
:10:05. > :10:08.mystery illness which turned out in the end to be syphilis and by the
:10:09. > :10:14.time of his death at the age of 40, it had got to his brain and had
:10:15. > :10:18.turned him in Saint. A lot of the mood swings, a lot of the ups and
:10:19. > :10:24.downs that you see in his correspondence are because of his
:10:25. > :10:29.mental health failing terribly. Augustus Pugin came to a wretched
:10:30. > :10:37.end, but Barry came to a sticky one as well. All the interested parties
:10:38. > :10:42.trying to get their pet schemes in. Tell us about that. The most
:10:43. > :10:47.notorious one was the ventilation schemes of a Scottish chemist called
:10:48. > :10:53.Doctor David Boswell read, he was brought in as the condition an
:10:54. > :10:56.expert over Barry's head and proceeded to punch holes in Barry's
:10:57. > :11:01.designed to create great events through the palace itself that
:11:02. > :11:06.compromise the fireproofing that Barry had put in very carefully to
:11:07. > :11:12.ensure that there wasn't going to be a repeat of 1834. In fact, we are
:11:13. > :11:18.still living with that legacy today because it is those pence that
:11:19. > :11:24.Boswell read put in there whenever used, that are filled with all the
:11:25. > :11:29.obsolete wiring and pipework and asbestos that mean that today the
:11:30. > :11:34.Houses of Parliament need restoration and all that needs to be
:11:35. > :11:41.ripped out. That is not the only problem. There is a problem with Big
:11:42. > :11:49.Ben, the bell, which cracked. Yes, Big Ben broke twice. The first Big
:11:50. > :11:56.Ben was cast in Stockton appointees, it managed to make its way on a
:11:57. > :12:01.boat. It was pulled across Westminster Bridge by a team of 16
:12:02. > :12:05.white horses to great clapping crowds and then it was wrong for a
:12:06. > :12:11.year on the ground in new Palace Yard to test it and just a few days
:12:12. > :12:16.before it was due to be installed, it cracked. That had to be broken up
:12:17. > :12:22.and the second Big Ben was recast. It turned up at Westminster, it was
:12:23. > :12:26.fine after the test readings, but then it was discovered that it was
:12:27. > :12:30.too big to get into the base of the tower. It had to be tipped on its
:12:31. > :12:42.side and pushed in sideways. Winch tap. It was righted at the top and
:12:43. > :12:52.once it started to ring it cracked again. It is still there. They
:12:53. > :12:57.turned it a bit. Meanwhile, the MPs weren't too sold on the new common's
:12:58. > :13:00.chamber that Barry had designed for them, either? They complained
:13:01. > :13:08.bitterly about the acoustics. That is where they suggested hanging him.
:13:09. > :13:11.Yes, why it was so expensive, why it had taken so long and they demanded
:13:12. > :13:17.that he lowered the ceiling of the chamber to improve the sound
:13:18. > :13:24.quality. He did, but that involved cutting through Augustus Pugin's
:13:25. > :13:28.stained-glass window design that he was so furious that he refused to
:13:29. > :13:35.ever set foot in the common's chamber. As it began to emerge from
:13:36. > :13:38.the wreckage of the original parliamentary buildings, did people
:13:39. > :13:44.start to like it or see the point of it once they could see at emerging?
:13:45. > :13:49.Epic the public was always behind it and particularly the celebrities
:13:50. > :13:53.that Barry brought in across European royal houses absolutely
:13:54. > :13:59.adored it. It became the must see site of London for royal visitors
:14:00. > :14:05.coming to see Queen Victoria. It was really the politicians, the
:14:06. > :14:11.Government, who were constantly complaining about the building.
:14:12. > :14:14.There were casualties along the way, by spectacularly the painted chamber
:14:15. > :14:18.which had started life as the bedroom of King Henry the third,
:14:19. > :14:24.full of medieval murals as the name suggests and that was just casually
:14:25. > :14:28.knocked down as the work went on. Yes. That was the temporary House of
:14:29. > :14:32.Lords. All the paintings had been burned away by the fire itself, but
:14:33. > :14:38.the walls were found to be sturdy enough to be able to be reroofed as
:14:39. > :14:44.this temporarily Shaq, if you like. It was swept away in 1851. As well
:14:45. > :14:47.as all the other old buildings that weren't kept. Westminster remains
:14:48. > :14:57.and the undercroft Chapel, as This whole complex has evolved and
:14:58. > :15:01.we are into another phase of redevelopment. Another era of
:15:02. > :15:05.restoration and renewal to get the building into shape. Should the
:15:06. > :15:09.people conducting that look on this tale and tremble? Well, there are
:15:10. > :15:14.lessons from history but they are really lessons from any major
:15:15. > :15:18.building programme. One of the interesting proposals coming out of
:15:19. > :15:21.the joint committee on the restoration and renewal of the
:15:22. > :15:24.Houses of Parliament is that there should be a delivery authority, like
:15:25. > :15:28.the Olympic delivery authority that was so successful, and had a rehab
:15:29. > :15:33.that in the 19th century that would have solved a lot of his problems.
:15:34. > :15:39.It was never quite clear to him who was his client? Was it the office of
:15:40. > :15:46.woods, was it the Government, was at the Treasury, was at the individual
:15:47. > :15:49.MPs, was at the Prime Minister? Understanding the governance between
:15:50. > :15:52.who is in charge and he was delivering is really important, I
:15:53. > :15:56.think that is what the delivery authority is designed to do. You
:15:57. > :15:58.have written about the great fire that destroyed the original
:15:59. > :16:02.buildings Comey you have now described the emergence of the vote
:16:03. > :16:06.Tory and Palace of Westminster. Can we look forward to -- of the
:16:07. > :16:11.Victorian Palace of Westminster. Can we look forward to volume three? I'm
:16:12. > :16:16.still working on what that might be! Thank you for joining us. Book talk
:16:17. > :16:48.will be back again next week, do join us then.
:16:49. > :16:56.It is frustrating when the FBI refuses to answer this committee's
:16:57. > :17:00.questions. But leaks relevant information to the media. In other
:17:01. > :17:04.words, they don't talk to us, but somebody talks to the media.
:17:05. > :17:10.Director Comey, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports
:17:11. > :17:11.about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton
:17:12. > :17:12.investigation?