0:00:00 > 0:00:00you would be considered as bold as brass.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21Think of the movement which first won women the vote a hundred years
0:00:21 > 0:00:26ago and the images which come to mind are Emily Weldon Davidson under
0:00:26 > 0:00:30the Kings horse at the Derby or green and purple ribbons to persuade
0:00:30 > 0:00:36politicians and smashed windows and went on hunger strike. What of the
0:00:36 > 0:00:42great pilgrimage, the mass march by peaceful protesters in 1913 which
0:00:42 > 0:00:49impressed the then Prime Minister? Those were the sub adjusts rather
0:00:49 > 0:00:55than the suffragettes, the peaceful constitutional wing of the movement
0:00:55 > 0:00:58and my guess today suggests their contribution to the ultimate victory
0:00:58 > 0:01:01has been rather eclipsed by their more militant protesters. Let's
0:01:01 > 0:01:08start with context, by the time of the great pilgrimage the movement
0:01:08 > 0:01:15had been building for the part of 50 years.The great prog which was in
0:01:15 > 0:01:1919 13. The first serious petition asking for votes was 1866 presented
0:01:19 > 0:01:28by John Stewart mill so half a century of campaigning behind the
0:01:28 > 0:01:34scenes and in the background. What is the arguments which are being
0:01:34 > 0:01:46made? That women could influence the
0:01:50 > 0:01:54society bringing up the children and keeping the house going. But they
0:01:54 > 0:01:58could bring that economy, the moral influence to Parliament and quite
0:01:58 > 0:02:03simply make the world a better place.Of course, every action
0:02:03 > 0:02:07produces a counter action and there was a counter campaign very quickly,
0:02:07 > 0:02:12there is the fabulous figure of doctor Amroth right who writes, I
0:02:12 > 0:02:19have to quote the phrase, it is marvellous, he discourses about the
0:02:19 > 0:02:21reverberations of women's physiological emergencies, that is
0:02:21 > 0:02:26his counterblast against the suffragist.Yes the medical
0:02:26 > 0:02:28fraternity were very loud in their arguments against women having the
0:02:28 > 0:02:34vote or going to university. As everyone knows, for one week out of
0:02:34 > 0:02:39four they are an emotional mess, hysterical, don't know what is up in
0:02:39 > 0:02:42what is down, so how can they possibly be trusted with the
0:02:42 > 0:02:47responsibility of having a voice in Parliament? He produced lots of
0:02:47 > 0:02:51pamphlets, he was quite a well-known figure actually. His main argument
0:02:51 > 0:02:55was that women have not got the intellectual power because they need
0:02:55 > 0:03:00all the energy to go to their physiological emergencies and they
0:03:00 > 0:03:03cannot spare any of it to go to their brains and think about casting
0:03:03 > 0:03:09a vote.And there are people who made slightly more serious arguments
0:03:09 > 0:03:14from positions of eminence, Queen Victoria was against the idea of fun
0:03:14 > 0:03:20and having the vote. The Prime Minister a few years on from those
0:03:20 > 0:03:24moments was seen as a liberal line in many context but not in terms of
0:03:24 > 0:03:29women and the vote.Queen Victoria was not the only woman who was
0:03:29 > 0:03:36against women having the vote. Gertrude Belle the great politician
0:03:36 > 0:03:39thought it was a terrible idea, she thought women could not be trusted
0:03:39 > 0:03:42and one of the main reason is because they cannot defend the
0:03:42 > 0:03:45country so if they are making decisions in Parliament which would
0:03:45 > 0:03:49need to be defended they have no right to do so because they cannot
0:03:49 > 0:03:55defend them, they cannot be soldiers, so what right do they have
0:03:55 > 0:03:59to make these decisions?And if women start having a vote then they
0:03:59 > 0:04:05will want to be MPs and judges and who knows?Whatever next? That is an
0:04:05 > 0:04:09argument which was put forward right at the beginning and the apogee of
0:04:09 > 0:04:13ridiculousness was that there would be a female Prime Minister.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17Suffragist societies were springing up all over the country in various
0:04:17 > 0:04:22sizes, they were coming up everywhere almost spontaneously.
0:04:22 > 0:04:33From 1866 win this petition was presented to Parliament, from then
0:04:33 > 0:04:36on the constitutional wing of the campaign set up as you say little
0:04:36 > 0:04:41societies all around the UK and in Scotland and these groups until
0:04:41 > 0:04:49there were about 900 branches at the height of the constitutional wing,
0:04:49 > 0:04:54the suffragist, rather than the suffragettes. There was a lot of
0:04:54 > 0:04:59campaigning going on but at this stage it was about and frustration
0:04:59 > 0:05:02and persuasion and trying to keep your head below the parapet so you
0:05:02 > 0:05:07would not be told by people like doctor right that you were a
0:05:07 > 0:05:13complete no hopers.The thought being that of the campaigning group
0:05:13 > 0:05:22to intense Dr Wright would find himself vindicated so you had to
0:05:22 > 0:05:25behave in a certain way.Yes otherwise people would turn around
0:05:25 > 0:05:31and say we told you so, they are freaks. That is why it took so long
0:05:31 > 0:05:34and by 1903 Emily Pankhurst got fed up and said we need to put our head
0:05:34 > 0:05:42above the parapet, people are too happy to accept the status quo at
0:05:42 > 0:05:47the minute. That is when the suffragettes come onto the scene.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51They regarded the constitutional wing, the old guard when as a cosy,
0:05:51 > 0:05:54let's have tea parties and signed petitions and write articles and
0:05:54 > 0:06:00send letters to the newspaper 's effort, they wanted more?There was
0:06:00 > 0:06:05a respect for the leader of the constitutional wing and she was very
0:06:05 > 0:06:08astute woman, great politician, great strategist but I think Emily
0:06:08 > 0:06:16Pankhurst got everything needed ginger ring up.Deeds not words?
0:06:16 > 0:06:20Exactly. Whereas the suffragists believed in deeds and words but they
0:06:20 > 0:06:26needed the impetus to realise that actually meetings were not enough,
0:06:26 > 0:06:28they needed to do something physical, some grand gesture and
0:06:28 > 0:06:34that is what the pilgrimage was.The pilgrimage was in some senses an
0:06:34 > 0:06:39answer to the more radical anthers of the suffragettes?It was fighting
0:06:39 > 0:06:46on two runs if fighting is the right word. The suffragists had to prove
0:06:46 > 0:06:50they were responsible enough to have the vote which is not what the
0:06:50 > 0:06:53suffragettes were doing, but they had to counter the bad publicity
0:06:53 > 0:06:57that the suffragettes were bringing him. The pilgrimage was at the
0:06:57 > 0:07:02height of the militant suffragette campaign so for example when the
0:07:02 > 0:07:08Pilgrims set out and perhaps he will talk about the journey later, but
0:07:08 > 0:07:11they were often greeted as suffragettes, everyone thought they
0:07:11 > 0:07:16were the ones throwing bombs and who set fire to letter boxes. So they
0:07:16 > 0:07:22were stoned and assaulted.There is a lot of memoir and journalism which
0:07:22 > 0:07:29covers this occasion, what was it like to be on that march?I managed
0:07:29 > 0:07:33to unearth about eight diaries of women on the march. Men were on the
0:07:33 > 0:07:38march as well because men could belong to the suffragists but not
0:07:38 > 0:07:44suffragettes. These diaries are glorious because not only are they
0:07:44 > 0:07:48travel diaries of being on the road for perhaps six weeks on a rickety
0:07:48 > 0:07:53caravan on a bicycle, perhaps just walking, but also at the risk of
0:07:53 > 0:07:58sounding a little corny they were about self-discovery and the
0:07:58 > 0:08:00discovery of sisterhood. This was the first time ordinary women have
0:08:00 > 0:08:05come together in a mass demonstration rather than a protest,
0:08:05 > 0:08:12and felt they were making a difference.What was quite
0:08:12 > 0:08:16interesting about this was that it worked. The political establishment
0:08:16 > 0:08:20was genuinely impressed that thousands and thousands of women
0:08:20 > 0:08:24could march peacefully around the country and converge on Westminster
0:08:24 > 0:08:28in an orderly way. Without throwing stones and breaking windows or
0:08:28 > 0:08:32pelting politicians with fruit. Have a peaceful protest and make a case.
0:08:32 > 0:08:37It had a useful result, they got invited to see Asquith.Yes, yes he
0:08:37 > 0:08:44had challenged poster wings of the campaign to improve the "Ordinary
0:08:44 > 0:08:47women" of England wanted the vote and the pilgrimage was taken to
0:08:47 > 0:08:53answer that. Meetings were held along the way, resolutions passed,
0:08:53 > 0:08:57petitions collected. These were presented as you say to Asquith who
0:08:57 > 0:09:01invited a deputation and it's at the end of the meeting that he admitted
0:09:01 > 0:09:05her the very first time, albeit slightly doubtfully, that perhaps
0:09:05 > 0:09:11women could be counted as people in a political sense. Perhaps they have
0:09:11 > 0:09:17Propper on the pilgrimage and if they were people they would come
0:09:17 > 0:09:23under the coverage of the representation of the people act.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26And then other events intervene, 1914 rolls along, the start of the
0:09:26 > 0:09:32Great War and a whole load of things, vote for women, sorting out
0:09:32 > 0:09:36Ireland, our whole lot of issues are put on hold by the government
0:09:36 > 0:09:40Asquith was heading. But it was not irrelevant to the struggle here,
0:09:40 > 0:09:45quite the reverse. It furnished more proof. Eugh it dead. It is received
0:09:45 > 0:09:51wisdom to a
0:09:53 > 0:09:56the pilgrimage and other things the suffragettes and the suffragists did
0:09:56 > 0:10:02prove that it was all part of a narrative which started in 1866 and
0:10:02 > 0:10:07started with women's campaigns. It is tempting to say we when we talk
0:10:07 > 0:10:11about when and at this time, I feel as though I identify with them, but
0:10:11 > 0:10:15we only got the vote after the war because of the work we have done
0:10:15 > 0:10:18during the war and we only did the work we had done during the war
0:10:18 > 0:10:22because we were so seasoned in campaigning and in committee work
0:10:22 > 0:10:25and practical work and making a difference.I get the impression you
0:10:25 > 0:10:30have been touched by reading about this and you identify no very
0:10:30 > 0:10:34strongly with the women who did this march, what was it like you
0:10:34 > 0:10:36emotionally if you like reading those accounts?
0:10:40 > 0:10:45It was a revelation for me because I admire the suffragettes but I always
0:10:45 > 0:10:48felt as though they were a race apart and when I started reading
0:10:48 > 0:10:53about the women who ran the pilgrimage, I realised that
0:10:53 > 0:10:56aristocrats were marching with mill workers and intellectuals were
0:10:56 > 0:11:01marching with housewives. It was people with whom I could identify
0:11:01 > 0:11:06and imagine as my great grandmother, my eccentric great aunt, my
0:11:06 > 0:11:11grandfather perhaps. People who belonged to us, who felt that every
0:11:11 > 0:11:16step on the pilgrimage would count towards something. They were very
0:11:16 > 0:11:20hopeful. I don't know how, after 50 years of being rebuffed but it was a
0:11:20 > 0:11:27hopeful event and I find that really inspiring.When you describe the
0:11:27 > 0:11:30moment women finally get the vote and Millicent Fawcett, the matriarch
0:11:30 > 0:11:35of the entire movement pretty much, goes to vote for the first time and
0:11:35 > 0:11:38various leaders of the suffragist movement are sitting in the Commons
0:11:38 > 0:11:45gallery when votes for women finally goes through, that must have been a
0:11:45 > 0:11:49huge moment, a culmination of a life's work.A huge moment and it
0:11:49 > 0:11:53fills me with admiration that Millicent Fawcett and the
0:11:53 > 0:11:56suffragists were not resentful even though it had taken 50 years, they
0:11:56 > 0:12:02were just... Not grateful as much, but just content that at last their
0:12:02 > 0:12:08voices would be heard.And why do you think it is the word suffragette
0:12:08 > 0:12:15endures but the suffragists has -- have been buried underneath. Do
0:12:15 > 0:12:20people just remember the violent stuff?Is because the suffragettes
0:12:20 > 0:12:25were good at their job, to shock and grab public attention and be
0:12:25 > 0:12:33sensational, and that Rangers, -- and that endures, but meanwhile the
0:12:33 > 0:12:38vast majority behind the scenes were doing the stuff that really
0:12:38 > 0:12:42mattered, not that the suffragette activism didn't matter, but we would
0:12:42 > 0:12:47not have got the vote without either wing of the campaign and it really
0:12:47 > 0:12:51is time that the majority, that the suffragists, got their voice heard
0:12:51 > 0:12:57again.While it was, in one sense, a victory when votes for women finally
0:12:57 > 0:13:06came along after the First World War, it was, as you point out in the
0:13:06 > 0:13:10book, half. They were still property qualifications that came into it and
0:13:10 > 0:13:16men were getting the vote younger. Was it a wrench to accept half a
0:13:16 > 0:13:20loaf?I think it was. One of the individuals I focus on called
0:13:20 > 0:13:25Marjorie Lees, she worked for years and years before the pilgrimage for
0:13:25 > 0:13:32women's suffrage but she lived with her mother, she hadn't been to
0:13:32 > 0:13:36university, she didn't own property, she was over 30, but she didn't get
0:13:36 > 0:13:42the vote in 1918 after all that and it just seems such a shame.So it is
0:13:42 > 0:13:50still implicitly second-class citizenship for a while to come.DS,
0:13:50 > 0:13:59until 1928.Was the struggle to continue or was it accepted?It
0:13:59 > 0:14:03continued, on widening fronts. Why it took ten years, I have no idea.
0:14:03 > 0:14:09But it did.What happens next to some of the organisers in this?
0:14:09 > 0:14:14You've got all sorts of incredibly skilled people and probably have the
0:14:14 > 0:14:18political bug. To be going to other movements?They did. Several of them
0:14:18 > 0:14:23went into Parliament and carried on the political bug. Several went into
0:14:23 > 0:14:26academia and were teaching at university level. Quite a lot of
0:14:26 > 0:14:31them leading to local Government and develop their citizenship in that
0:14:31 > 0:14:40way, in social welfare, writing, then in 1919 the act was passed that
0:14:40 > 0:14:42allowed women into traditional professions, so women started going
0:14:42 > 0:14:49into law and medicine, and into other professions as well. But with
0:14:49 > 0:14:56that heritage of seasoned campaign work behind them.a fascinating
0:14:56 > 0:15:00account of a forgotten campaign. Thanks rejoining us. We'll be back
0:15:00 > 0:15:08again very soon. Join us then.