:00:40. > :00:44.So, Prime Minister, the negotiations to leave the European Union begin.
:00:45. > :00:50.It is a historic moment for our country. In what ways will Britain
:00:51. > :00:53.be a better country for leaving the European Union? You are absolutely
:00:54. > :00:58.right, Andrew, that this is a historic moment for our country. We
:00:59. > :01:02.are putting into place now the decision that was taken in the
:01:03. > :01:06.referendum on June 23 last year to leave the European Union. And the
:01:07. > :01:13.formal process has begun. I've written to, as they say, invoke this
:01:14. > :01:15.Article 50 that people will have heard about, which starts the
:01:16. > :01:18.process of formal negotiations. As we look ahead to the outcome of
:01:19. > :01:22.those negotiations, I believe we should be optimistic as a country
:01:23. > :01:28.about what we can achieve. I think when people voted last June, what
:01:29. > :01:32.they voted for was for us to be in control, in control of our borders,
:01:33. > :01:35.in control of our laws. But I think people also voted for change in the
:01:36. > :01:40.country and that is why alongside the work we are doing an Brexit, I
:01:41. > :01:49.am clear the government has a plan for Britain to build a more outward
:01:50. > :01:51.looking country, a stronger economy, where everyone plays by the same
:01:52. > :01:55.rules, a fairer society, where success is based on merit but not on
:01:56. > :01:57.privilege and to make sure we are a more United Nations, somewhere our
:01:58. > :02:02.children and grandchildren can be proud to call home. But we couldn't
:02:03. > :02:05.have been better in all these ways and remained in the European Union?
:02:06. > :02:09.Well, the British people decided they wanted to come out of the
:02:10. > :02:13.European Union and I think when they made that vote, when they gave that
:02:14. > :02:17.very clear message to us as politicians, I think what they
:02:18. > :02:21.wanted to see was the United Kingdom making its own decisions and not
:02:22. > :02:25.feeling that decisions were being taken in Brussels. In the letter
:02:26. > :02:29.that I have said to trigger this formal process today, I make the
:02:30. > :02:33.point that we are not rejecting Europe, we are not rejecting the
:02:34. > :02:37.values of democracy and European values. What we are saying is it is
:02:38. > :02:40.about our national self-determination as the United
:02:41. > :02:45.Kingdom. It is about us having control. You've mentioned in control
:02:46. > :02:53.several times so let me start with immigration. I do that because, for
:02:54. > :02:56.many people, the scale of immigration over the past ten years
:02:57. > :02:59.was a major reason, not the only one but a major reason why they voted to
:03:00. > :03:01.leave. Can the people who voted that way be reassured that immigration
:03:02. > :03:06.will be significantly lower after Brexit? You are right, for a lot of
:03:07. > :03:09.people, when they voted last year, immigration was one of the issues
:03:10. > :03:13.that was key in their minds but again, what I think they wanted to
:03:14. > :03:18.know was that the UK Government was taking control of our borders, and
:03:19. > :03:22.decisions would be made here in the UK. Obviously, we want to see net
:03:23. > :03:26.migration coming down. We have been able to put rules in place in
:03:27. > :03:30.relation to people coming here to the UK from outside the European
:03:31. > :03:34.Union. Now as a result of leaving the EU, when we leave, we will be
:03:35. > :03:39.able to put rules in place, decided here, about the basis on which
:03:40. > :03:43.people can come from inside the EU. But will immigration be
:03:44. > :03:46.significantly lower after Brexit? I think what we will see is a
:03:47. > :03:51.difference in a number of people coming in. I was Home Secretary for
:03:52. > :03:54.six years and when you look at immigration, you constantly have to
:03:55. > :03:57.look at this issue because there are so many variables, so many different
:03:58. > :04:01.things that can happen in the world which affect the numbers of people
:04:02. > :04:05.trying to come here to the UK. What we will be able to do as a result of
:04:06. > :04:09.leaving the EU is to have control of our borders, is to set those rules
:04:10. > :04:14.for people coming from inside the European Union, into the UK. We
:04:15. > :04:17.haven't been able to do that. So we will be able to have control on
:04:18. > :04:21.those numbers, set the rules for that, as we have been able to set
:04:22. > :04:29.the rules for others in the past. So what will the rules be for EU
:04:30. > :04:32.citizens coming here in the future? Well, we are looking at the moment
:04:33. > :04:34.at what we think should be right and we will actually be bringing forward
:04:35. > :04:38.a Bill in parliament in due course which will set out our proposals. If
:04:39. > :04:42.you like, there's a couple of issues around the ball from the European
:04:43. > :04:45.Union. Of course, there are quite a few people from the European Union
:04:46. > :04:48.living in the UK already and some of them well have been here for a
:04:49. > :04:52.considerable period of time. Others will have come more recently. One of
:04:53. > :04:57.the things I want to be able to do is give them reassurance about their
:04:58. > :05:00.future, but I only want to do that when I know that those UK citizens
:05:01. > :05:03.who have moved over to countries in the European Union are also going to
:05:04. > :05:07.have that reassurance and those guarantees. I understand that but
:05:08. > :05:11.what I'm talking about is the future, for people coming here in
:05:12. > :05:14.the future, from the EU. Would you envisage, as example, -- for
:05:15. > :05:18.example, as part of the Brexit deal that there would still be some kind
:05:19. > :05:22.of preference for EU citizens who want to come and work here? What I
:05:23. > :05:26.am clear about is there will still be opportunities for people to come
:05:27. > :05:29.to the UK from the EU but we will bring forward specific puzzles on
:05:30. > :05:35.what the rules should be in due course and those will go through our
:05:36. > :05:39.Parliament. -- specific proposals. We will decide what the rules will
:05:40. > :05:43.be. We want to make sure of course that the economy is still strong. We
:05:44. > :05:47.see many people here working in our economy, working in our public
:05:48. > :05:51.sector. We want to make sure that we still have that strong economy, but
:05:52. > :05:55.people want us to be in control and that is the important thing about is
:05:56. > :05:59.what we will be doing. But the Conservatives promised to cut net
:06:00. > :06:04.migration to 100,000 per year, seven years ago. Seven years ago and you
:06:05. > :06:09.are still nowhere near figure. Indeed, non-EU migration, people
:06:10. > :06:13.coming from beyond the EU, that migration alone is well over 100,000
:06:14. > :06:17.per year. You must understand why people are sceptical about anything
:06:18. > :06:21.you say on immigration? Well, if you look at what has happened to those
:06:22. > :06:25.migration figures, those net migration figures, over the last
:06:26. > :06:28.seven years, they went up, they have come down, they have gone up again
:06:29. > :06:33.and now they have started to come down. They are higher than we want
:06:34. > :06:36.them to be. Almost three times. You are absolutely right about them
:06:37. > :06:40.being higher than we want them to be but that is why what I've just said
:06:41. > :06:44.is so important. In immigration, you can't just set one set of rules and
:06:45. > :06:52.think it is the answer and go away and forget about it. Actually, you
:06:53. > :06:55.have to constantly look at this, constantly work at it, constantly
:06:56. > :06:59.ask if the rules are right. But you cannot, I would suggest, reduce net
:07:00. > :07:02.migration to 100,000 without major cuts in both EU and non-EU
:07:03. > :07:07.migration, isn't that right? We need to continue to look across the board
:07:08. > :07:10.as well as introducing rules for people from the EU. We also need to
:07:11. > :07:13.continue to look across the board but there is something else we need
:07:14. > :07:16.to do as a country, of course, which is to make sure that people here in
:07:17. > :07:21.the UK have the skills they need to take the jobs here so that
:07:22. > :07:26.businesses don't feel they have to reach out overseas to bring people
:07:27. > :07:29.in all the time. One final thing on immigration, though. The British
:07:30. > :07:32.economy has done better than most forecasters said at the time of the
:07:33. > :07:37.referendum and it continues to do pretty well this year. What happens
:07:38. > :07:43.if we continue to do well and you need more than 100,000 migrants per
:07:44. > :07:46.year? Would you let them in? One of the things I think, as I have just
:07:47. > :07:49.said, that is crucial for us as we look at the economy in the future is
:07:50. > :07:53.for us to make sure that people here in the UK are getting the training,
:07:54. > :07:56.the education and the skills they need to be able to take on the jobs
:07:57. > :08:00.for that growing economy in the future. That is why as a government,
:08:01. > :08:03.we are putting more money into technical education, for example,
:08:04. > :08:08.ensuring that young people have the opportunity to get the skills they
:08:09. > :08:11.need. I want to see a high-paid, high skilled economy in the future
:08:12. > :08:17.but we need to make sure that young people today are going to be able to
:08:18. > :08:20.take those jobs tomorrow. The EU has talked of a one-off, multi-billion
:08:21. > :08:26.pound exit feet. Some have suggested it could be as much as ?50 billion
:08:27. > :08:30.will stop maybe more. Would you contemplate a sum anything like
:08:31. > :08:34.that? When people voted last year, one of the things they voted for was
:08:35. > :08:38.to ensure that in the future, outside the EU, we're not paying
:08:39. > :08:43.significant sums of money on an annual basis into the European
:08:44. > :08:46.Union. Of course, we have to look at the rights and obligations we have
:08:47. > :08:50.as a member of the EU, while we continue to be a member, until we
:08:51. > :08:57.leave, we will carry on paying according to the obligations we have
:08:58. > :09:01.as a member. But we will pay an exit fee of anything like 50 billion? As
:09:02. > :09:04.we go through the negotiations, of course, we have to decide what the
:09:05. > :09:08.obligations are. But what I am very clear about is what people want to
:09:09. > :09:11.see that in the future, we will be making decisions about the budget,
:09:12. > :09:15.and we will be deciding not to pay those sums of money every year to
:09:16. > :09:18.the European Union. I understand that we may decide to continue with
:09:19. > :09:21.some programmes and make a contribution to them even after we
:09:22. > :09:27.leave but I'm not talking about that. I am talking about a exit fee
:09:28. > :09:33.that the EU is talking about, is almost demanding, around about 50
:09:34. > :09:37.billion. I ask again, is that in the ballpark you would contemplate? You
:09:38. > :09:40.talk about a exit fee the EU is demanding and there's been a lot of
:09:41. > :09:44.spec version but actually, there is not a formal demand. The
:09:45. > :09:47.negotiations have not started yet. I am very clear about what people here
:09:48. > :09:52.in the UK expect but I'm also clear that, you know, we are law-abiding
:09:53. > :09:56.nation and we will meet the obligations we have. As a member, as
:09:57. > :09:59.I say, until the point at which we leave, of course we will be
:10:00. > :10:02.continuing to pay according to the rights and obligations of the
:10:03. > :10:07.membership. Many people watching this will wonder, we are leaving,
:10:08. > :10:13.why should we pay anything at all to leave? We're not talking about
:10:14. > :10:16.paying to leave. We will be leaving the European Union. What we are
:10:17. > :10:21.talking about is ensuring that when we leave, first of all, when we
:10:22. > :10:25.leave, people will see that we will be taking decisions about our
:10:26. > :10:30.budget. We won't be required to make significant payments every year into
:10:31. > :10:33.the EU's budget. As you say, there may be some particular programmes we
:10:34. > :10:36.want to be members of, that we wish to pay in order to be members of
:10:37. > :10:41.because it would be in the national interest to do so and that is what
:10:42. > :10:45.will drive us. The European Union is talking about a divorce payment,
:10:46. > :10:49.Michel Barnier, the head negotiator, is talking about a divorce payment.
:10:50. > :10:54.Are we prepared to pay a divorce payment? As I say, there has been a
:10:55. > :10:59.lot of speculation and comment about these comments. We are not in the
:11:00. > :11:02.negotiations yet. We will start the formal negotiations soon. We have
:11:03. > :11:07.done the first step, triggering Article 50. As I have said, the UK
:11:08. > :11:11.is a law-abiding nation and we will look at the rights and obligations
:11:12. > :11:17.we have. You have mentioned already the importance of EU citizens in the
:11:18. > :11:21.UK and UK citizens in the EU and they would like to be reassured
:11:22. > :11:26.about their future. Do you believe you can resolve and announce this
:11:27. > :11:30.quickly? Well, one of the things I have put in the letter to President
:11:31. > :11:34.Donald Tusk is precisely that I want to get an early agreement about
:11:35. > :11:38.this. And sometimes people say to me, as you have, that EU citizens
:11:39. > :11:42.here are concerned about their future and of course, they are, and
:11:43. > :11:45.I recognise that. But as UK Prime Minister, I need to think about UK
:11:46. > :11:52.citizens living abroad as well in the EU. So will they both be
:11:53. > :11:56.reassured quickly? I want a reciprocal agreement in terms of
:11:57. > :11:59.guaranteeing status of EU citizens and UK citizens and I have said I
:12:00. > :12:03.think this should be done at an early stage. I believe from the
:12:04. > :12:08.talks I have had with other leaders that there is a goodwill that, that
:12:09. > :12:10.there are those who recognise the importance of giving people
:12:11. > :12:14.reassurance. And I think we will be able to address this as one of the
:12:15. > :12:20.early things that we talk about in the negotiations. By early, could it
:12:21. > :12:23.be this summer? I don't want to put a date on it but I wanted to be as
:12:24. > :12:26.early as possible, precisely because, as you just said, people
:12:27. > :12:33.are worried about their futures. I think it is only fair to work to
:12:34. > :12:36.give them reassurance as soon as we can. You believe that Brexit means
:12:37. > :12:40.we can no longer be members of the single market. Why? Because the
:12:41. > :12:44.other leaders in Europe have made very clear that what they call, they
:12:45. > :12:48.use this term the four freedoms and they are indivisible, they go
:12:49. > :12:51.together. So what are they? It is the importance of free movement, and
:12:52. > :12:57.of course, we have said we want to control movement from the EU. It is
:12:58. > :12:59.membership of the single market which entails accepting that free
:13:00. > :13:05.movement. It also entails accepting that Europe -- the jurisdiction of
:13:06. > :13:07.the European Court of Justice. These are exactly things that people voted
:13:08. > :13:12.to reject when they voted to leave the European Union. I have accepted
:13:13. > :13:15.we can't have that membership of the single market because to do it would
:13:16. > :13:19.mean accepting things that the voters have said they don't want.
:13:20. > :13:25.But what we can do, I believe, is to get a really good trade agreement
:13:26. > :13:28.with the European Union in terms of access for our businesses to their
:13:29. > :13:32.single market and of course, for their businesses to our market. But
:13:33. > :13:35.do you accept that no matter how good a free-trade deal you are going
:13:36. > :13:38.to get and I accept you are going to try to get the best you can, no
:13:39. > :13:44.matter how good, it can't be as good as the unrestricted access we
:13:45. > :13:47.currently enjoyed as members of the single market? Well, I believe that
:13:48. > :13:51.what we will be working for and what I believe we can get is a
:13:52. > :13:56.comprehensive free-trade agreement. We are looking. We would like to see
:13:57. > :13:59.as frictionless and free trade as possible, tariff free across
:14:00. > :14:04.borders, so we can continue that trade with the European Union. But
:14:05. > :14:07.it can't be as good? It will be a different relationship, that is the
:14:08. > :14:12.point, because it won't be a relationship based on membership of
:14:13. > :14:14.the single market and based on accepting all the other things that
:14:15. > :14:18.voters rejected. What it will be is saying that we want a new
:14:19. > :14:22.partnership with the EU. We still want to work with you and cooperate
:14:23. > :14:25.with you and actually, getting a trade agreement is not just about
:14:26. > :14:29.the UK. It is not just about our businesses. It is about businesses
:14:30. > :14:33.in other countries being able to trade with us. So I think it is in
:14:34. > :14:40.the interest of both sides to agree a really good deal.
:14:41. > :14:46.I understand that but David Davis said the deal will deliver the exact
:14:47. > :14:50.same benefits we have now. You and I know that cannot be true. The
:14:51. > :14:54.European Union will never agree to the exact same benefits. What we're
:14:55. > :14:58.both looking for is that comprehensive Free Trade Agreement
:14:59. > :15:02.that gives that ability to trade freely into the European single
:15:03. > :15:06.market. It cannot be the exact same. It will be a different relationship,
:15:07. > :15:11.but I think it can have the same benefits, in terms of free access to
:15:12. > :15:19.trade. When we leave the EU, we end our membership of 40 pan-European
:15:20. > :15:24.agencies, other agreements, I want to ask about two specific ones. One
:15:25. > :15:30.is very timely, given the events at Westminster last week. Will our
:15:31. > :15:34.membership of Euro poll, the police Europe-wide service, will that
:15:35. > :15:39.continue post-Brexit? That's one of the things we will have to negotiate
:15:40. > :15:46.as part of the negotiation. Do you want to? I think security
:15:47. > :15:57.cooperation is important for us. It is not just Europol, but things like
:15:58. > :16:02.information about people crossing borders. Would you like to remain a
:16:03. > :16:07.member of Europol? I would like a degree of cooperation that we have
:16:08. > :16:12.currently. I've argued before for exactly this, when a couple of years
:16:13. > :16:15.ago, when we were looking at these these home affairs matters. I think
:16:16. > :16:20.it is important for us and I want us to continue that degree of
:16:21. > :16:24.co-operation, but it will be part of the package of negotiations, because
:16:25. > :16:27.at the moment when we leave the European Union, unless we've
:16:28. > :16:31.negotiated still to be members of those sorts of organisations and
:16:32. > :16:38.arrangements, our membership will lapse. If it lapses will we cease to
:16:39. > :16:41.share information with Europol? We wouldn't be able to access
:16:42. > :16:44.information in the same way we can as a member. It's important to
:16:45. > :16:47.negotiate a relationship that allows us to work together in the way we
:16:48. > :16:51.have. As I said, right at the moment, and this is very much
:16:52. > :16:54.brought home to us in London last week, right at the moment, now is
:16:55. > :16:58.not a time, given the threats we face across Europe, for us to see
:16:59. > :17:03.less cooperation in this area. We want to continue that cooperation
:17:04. > :17:10.and build on it. Will UK citizens still be eligible for free access to
:17:11. > :17:14.health care across the EU through the European health insurance card?
:17:15. > :17:20.That also will be a matter, be part of the negotiations. Will it be your
:17:21. > :17:24.aim to secure that? There are two issues, the issue of people who are
:17:25. > :17:28.currently resident in European Union member states and the rights that
:17:29. > :17:32.they have, and then of course the rights people would have as they
:17:33. > :17:35.move across Europe. We want to get the best possible deal for citizens
:17:36. > :17:40.here in the United Kingdom. I want to get the best possible deal for
:17:41. > :17:43.everybody, in whatever part of the United Kingdom they are living in.
:17:44. > :17:49.We have a raft of negotiations we have to go through, a raft of issues
:17:50. > :17:51.will be looking at, in relation to these matters, and we need the vet
:17:52. > :17:56.flexibility of dealing with those issues. The relationship will be
:17:57. > :17:59.different in the future. It's not necessarily a question of saying are
:18:00. > :18:03.we going to replicate this or that? We will have a different
:18:04. > :18:07.relationship with Europe. You talk about a whole raft of things that
:18:08. > :18:10.have to be decided under different relationship. You need to negotiate
:18:11. > :18:17.our divorce terms, highly controversial. A new free trade
:18:18. > :18:20.deal, new crime-fighting arrangements, health arrangements,
:18:21. > :18:24.you need to repatriate 50 international trade agreements. Then
:18:25. > :18:29.you have to have it all ratified by 27 other countries as well as our
:18:30. > :18:32.own. All in under two years. That's just not possible, Prime Minister,
:18:33. > :18:35.is it? It's challenging but I think it is
:18:36. > :18:40.possible. The reason I think it is possible with this... There are two
:18:41. > :18:43.reasons. First of all I think it's possible because with goodwill on
:18:44. > :18:51.both sides, I think both sides recognise that it's in our interests
:18:52. > :18:53.to make sure that we get these arrangements in place, so that when
:18:54. > :18:56.we leave we have that trade arrangement, we know what it's going
:18:57. > :18:59.to be. There may be a period of implementation after the point of
:19:00. > :19:03.withdrawal, but we know what that arrangement is, so everybody is
:19:04. > :19:05.certain about whether future lies. It's in both sides interests to do
:19:06. > :19:10.this. The other reason why I think it is
:19:11. > :19:13.possible is we're not a third country, in the sense of a country
:19:14. > :19:16.that's never been part of the European Union. We're not coming
:19:17. > :19:25.suddenly knocking at the door saying we want all of these things. We've
:19:26. > :19:27.been part of the EU, we've been operating on the same basis with
:19:28. > :19:30.them. I think that puts us in a different position for the future
:19:31. > :19:32.and makes it easier for us to negotiate this arrangement than if
:19:33. > :19:36.we were coming at it fresh. Do you rule out a transitional period?
:19:37. > :19:39.Where some things even after we leave remain to be resolved? What I
:19:40. > :19:44.want after two years as everybody knows what the withdrawal agreement
:19:45. > :19:47.is and the future relationship is. What I've called today a deep and
:19:48. > :19:51.special partnership with the EU, because we're still part of Europe.
:19:52. > :20:01.We still want to work with them and cooperate with them. I want that
:20:02. > :20:03.agreed by the end of the two years, I think that is possible, but it
:20:04. > :20:05.maybe there is a period of implementation thereafter as people
:20:06. > :20:07.and businesses and governments are just too whatever the new
:20:08. > :20:09.arrangements are. If there is a transitional period or
:20:10. > :20:13.implementation period, will that involve the free movement of people
:20:14. > :20:16.and being under the jurisdiction of the European Court, or do both these
:20:17. > :20:21.things after ending two years' time? We want to make sure that we are
:20:22. > :20:24.ending, that we are ending the jurisdiction of the European Court
:20:25. > :20:29.of Justice and we are able to control movement of people coming
:20:30. > :20:34.from Europe. We want to have the agreement stunning two years. There
:20:35. > :20:39.may then be a period where we are implementing those arrangements,
:20:40. > :20:42.just as a very simple example, if there are different visa
:20:43. > :20:44.arrangements that needed to be put in place, the government here and
:20:45. > :20:49.governments elsewhere will have to have their systems working, so they
:20:50. > :20:52.can operate. There may be a period where we have to implement the
:20:53. > :20:56.decisions taken. You said in the event of no deal we
:20:57. > :21:01.may have to change Britain's economic model.
:21:02. > :21:05.What does that mean? On the no deal, I said no deal first of all would be
:21:06. > :21:10.better than a bad deal. We don't want to see a bad steel. I say that
:21:11. > :21:14.because I think there are some people in Europe who talk about
:21:15. > :21:18.punishing the UK. -- don't want a bad deal. I don't want to sign up to
:21:19. > :21:22.an agreement that is based on fact. Then there are others here who
:21:23. > :21:26.perhaps feel that we should be so keen to get an agreement that we
:21:27. > :21:30.might sign up to things that the British people rejected when they
:21:31. > :21:34.voted to leave the European Union. What does a different economic model
:21:35. > :21:38.mean, that was my question? What I have said in a letter today
:21:39. > :21:45.is if we don't get a deal, then we would go on to WTO, World Trade
:21:46. > :21:50.Organisation or arrangements for trading. In those circumstances, as
:21:51. > :21:57.made clear in the letter that's not what we want, that's not in
:21:58. > :22:01.either... Can I just make the point, it's not in either sides interests,
:22:02. > :22:04.I think, to have those arrangements. It's not just about us, it's about
:22:05. > :22:08.the EU as well. But of course what ever comes out, we want to ensure we
:22:09. > :22:12.continue to have a competitive economy. And that's what we would be
:22:13. > :22:17.looking at. What is a different economic model mean? I ask for a
:22:18. > :22:22.third time, what does it mean? We would take decisions at the time to
:22:23. > :22:25.what was necessary to keep our economy competitive, keep jobs in
:22:26. > :22:28.the United Kingdom, make sure we were putting in place arrangements
:22:29. > :22:33.the business that kept those jobs and so forth. You do that anyway? We
:22:34. > :22:40.do work to do that. Am not sure what the new economic model is. A tax
:22:41. > :22:44.haven? Labour set up all sorts of strong men about what this might
:22:45. > :22:47.mean in the future for what it's about is making sure that jobs stay
:22:48. > :22:51.here in the UK and jobs are created in the UK. What it's about is making
:22:52. > :22:54.sure we've got that economy that enables people to have those
:22:55. > :22:57.high-paid, high skilled jobs and that we are ensuring that young
:22:58. > :23:02.people here have got those skills for the future. Let me ask you one
:23:03. > :23:09.rather important question. If we don't get a deal, will that
:23:10. > :23:12.jeopardise our existing cooperation against crime and terrorism with our
:23:13. > :23:18.European partners? If there is no deal, will it weaken it? If I can
:23:19. > :23:22.separate those two out. On some of the cooperation we have with them on
:23:23. > :23:25.terrorism, that takes place outside the European Union and outside the
:23:26. > :23:29.structures of the European Union. If we don't get a deal on the sort of
:23:30. > :23:33.security arrangements, the sort of criminal justice things I was
:23:34. > :23:36.talking about earlier, the exchange of information at our borders, then
:23:37. > :23:41.I think that's one of the reasons I think we should aim not to be in the
:23:42. > :23:45.position of getting no deal but in a position of getting a good deal,
:23:46. > :23:49.because I think cooperation is important to us. We're leaving for
:23:50. > :23:53.customs union. Ireland is not. Do you accept that must mean checks on
:23:54. > :23:57.the Irish border? We are very clear, both eye, and I
:23:58. > :24:00.have talked to the government in the Republic about this, we are very
:24:01. > :24:02.clear we don't want to see a return to the borders of the past. We are
:24:03. > :24:16.working very closely with the Irish government that can be put in
:24:17. > :24:19.place to ensure a frictionless border in a practical sense, for
:24:20. > :24:21.goods and services and people travelling between Northern Ireland
:24:22. > :24:23.and the Republic. The Leave campaign for Mr Brexit dividend of ?350
:24:24. > :24:28.million a week. Much of which they said could be spent on the NHS. How
:24:29. > :24:32.big do think the Brexit dividend will be entered the line shall go to
:24:33. > :24:39.the NHS? What I think is what people want is what voted for it in the UK
:24:40. > :24:43.to be able to decide how it spends its budget. Not to be spending
:24:44. > :24:46.significant sums of money every year paying into the European Union and
:24:47. > :24:49.Brussels. So when we leave, we will have control of that money and we
:24:50. > :24:55.will decide how we spend that money. I think that's what people want. How
:24:56. > :25:00.big will it be? Anything like 350 million a week? We will be ensuring
:25:01. > :25:06.we are not pay no significant sums in the future. We will then be able
:25:07. > :25:11.to see what the size of that dividend would be an determine how
:25:12. > :25:15.that money is spent. Should it go to the NHS? There are lots of things we
:25:16. > :25:18.need to think about. It was NHS in this -- on the side of the bus in
:25:19. > :25:26.the referendum? During the referendum there were points made,
:25:27. > :25:30.often passionately on both sides of the argument. We are beyond the
:25:31. > :25:34.referendum, at the point where we are putting this into practice,
:25:35. > :25:38.starting what will be complex, challenging, but I think achievable
:25:39. > :25:43.negotiations. I'm optimistic about what we can achieve in the future.
:25:44. > :25:47.What people voted for is for us to have control, and that's what we'll
:25:48. > :25:50.have. You've rejected the demands of Scotland's First Minister for a
:25:51. > :25:53.second independence referendum. You say now is not the time. What about
:25:54. > :26:01.when you've done the Brexit deal, when we know what that nature of
:26:02. > :26:02.Brexit is? Would you rule out a second Scottish independence
:26:03. > :26:05.referendum? The comments I'm getting from the
:26:06. > :26:07.Scottish Government and SNP in Parliament at the moment are that
:26:08. > :26:11.they want a confirmation now that they're going to have a second
:26:12. > :26:15.independence referendum. What I'm saying is I think now is not the
:26:16. > :26:19.time for a second independence referendum or the time to focus on a
:26:20. > :26:24.second independence referendum. I accept you don't like the timing,
:26:25. > :26:27.but later, when the Brexit deal is done? The Scots can see what it
:26:28. > :26:34.looks like, they voted to remain in the EU, they should then, people
:26:35. > :26:37.would argue, have a second referendum, are you against in
:26:38. > :26:42.printable? If I can explain why I said now is not the time, because it
:26:43. > :26:47.is relevant. Now is not the time to focus on a second independence
:26:48. > :26:51.referendum or to be looking at that second independence referendum
:26:52. > :26:54.because... The two reasons. Now is the time when we need to pull
:26:55. > :26:58.together as the United Kingdom. We need to talk about how we can work
:26:59. > :27:02.together, to get the best possible deal for everybody across the whole
:27:03. > :27:05.of the United Kingdom. I understand. Focusing on an independence
:27:06. > :27:09.referendum isn't doing that. Do you rule it out? That's why it's
:27:10. > :27:14.important for us to ensure we do focus on the future. Do you ball it
:27:15. > :27:18.out in principle? And also I think it's important we recognise... I
:27:19. > :27:23.think the question isn't whether there could be a second independence
:27:24. > :27:27.referendum or there should be. Should there be? Hazard the people
:27:28. > :27:33.in Scotland voted in 2014, to stay part of the United Kingdom. The SNP
:27:34. > :27:36.described as a once in a generation, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to
:27:37. > :27:40.vote for independence. The people gave their message, just as we are
:27:41. > :27:45.respecting the referendum that took played here last year on EU
:27:46. > :27:48.membership, so we should all respect the 20 14th Scotland referendum.
:27:49. > :27:54.During the referendum you said you thought it was clearly in our
:27:55. > :27:57.national interest to remain a member of the EU. Now you say Brexit will
:27:58. > :28:04.quote to build a better Britain. Who is the real Theresa May? The
:28:05. > :28:08.Remainer Leaver? I did campaign for remain NUT but I also said that I
:28:09. > :28:13.didn't think the sky would fall in if we left the European Union, it
:28:14. > :28:19.hasn't. It has you doing the mother of all U-turns? Hazard my job, I've
:28:20. > :28:23.been put in a position as Prime Minister I believe to respect the
:28:24. > :28:26.wishes of the people of the United Kingdom means that referendum. I
:28:27. > :28:31.believe it's my job to deliver the best possible future for the UK.
:28:32. > :28:34.That's why I have... It's not just about Brexit .my plan for Britain,
:28:35. > :28:40.about a more outward looking Britain, a fairer society, stronger
:28:41. > :28:45.economy. It's taking that forward which is about building a brighter
:28:46. > :28:48.future for everybody in the UK. If it is for the will of the British
:28:49. > :28:52.people, when you do the deal, when it is clear the terms of which we
:28:53. > :28:57.will leave the EU, why would you not take that to the country, either in
:28:58. > :29:00.a second referendum or go to the country in a general election and
:29:01. > :29:05.get the people to vote for the deal that you do? Why not? When we have
:29:06. > :29:11.the deal there will be a vote in the UK Parliament. Of course, there will
:29:12. > :29:14.be votes in parliaments across Europe, because there will need to
:29:15. > :29:17.be a ratification process. I believe that's the right way to do it, to
:29:18. > :29:20.say to the UK Parliament, this is your opportunity to vote for this
:29:21. > :29:24.deal. You won't take it to the country? I'm confident we're going
:29:25. > :29:27.to get a deal that's going to be good for the British people. The
:29:28. > :29:32.British people have basically said to us, go on and get on with it. We
:29:33. > :29:34.want to leave the EU, go out there, get the deal, get on with and that's
:29:35. > :29:45.what we'll do. Minister, thank you. That was Theresa May's view on what
:29:46. > :29:48.has happened today and the triggering of Article 50 but what
:29:49. > :29:52.about the view in Wales? Good evening. I'm Nick Servini in Cardiff
:29:53. > :29:56.and welcome to a special programme in which I will be exploring what
:29:57. > :29:59.the impact will be in Wales of the start of the official Brexit
:30:00. > :30:03.negotiations. The Prime Minister has already said that more powers will
:30:04. > :30:07.be given to the Welsh government when we leave the EU, but what will
:30:08. > :30:10.it mean for trade and immigration? In the next half-hour, I will have
:30:11. > :30:14.reaction from the leaders of the main parties in Wells, Plaid Cymru's
:30:15. > :30:19.Leanne Wood, Ukip's Neil Hamilton and Mark Williams from the Liberal
:30:20. > :30:23.Democrats. But first I have been joined by the First Minister, Carwyn
:30:24. > :30:28.Jones. Good evening. This has been a great day for Wales, hasn't it? Huge
:30:29. > :30:32.democratic exercise last year and Wales voted to leave and that is
:30:33. > :30:36.precisely what Theresa May has given us today. Yes, that's right, no one
:30:37. > :30:41.is fighting the referendum of last year again. That was last year and
:30:42. > :30:44.it has been decided. The question is now, how do we move forward? There's
:30:45. > :30:48.lots of unanswered questions and there will be over the course of the
:30:49. > :30:52.next few months but for me, I'm interested in getting the best deal
:30:53. > :30:56.for Wales. Quite bad-tempered initial response from you today,
:30:57. > :31:01.saying you had been persistently ignored in this process. You have
:31:02. > :31:05.got a responsibility here, to some extent? She's going in to bat
:31:06. > :31:10.against 27 other European nations and she should be able to rely on
:31:11. > :31:12.your support in this? I never bad-tempered, Nick. We start from
:31:13. > :31:16.the perspective of wanting to support the UK Government in its
:31:17. > :31:19.negotiations, not from the position of trying to cause problems but if
:31:20. > :31:22.they take a position which is something we think is wrong, we
:31:23. > :31:27.won't hesitate in saying so. Today, I thought the tone she adopted in
:31:28. > :31:30.Parliament was the right one. In fact, she started talking about
:31:31. > :31:36.fellow Europeans and a deep and significant relationship with the EU
:31:37. > :31:39.which I very much welcome. I think there is still an air of unreality
:31:40. > :31:41.about this. There's not going to be agreement in two years, it's
:31:42. > :31:44.impossible, it will be five years before we get anywhere but it's a
:31:45. > :31:48.start. That is the time frame and those are the rules. We knew that in
:31:49. > :31:52.the beginning but it won't start until the autumn and it would have
:31:53. > :31:55.to be 12 months, for the ratification process to take place
:31:56. > :31:59.in all the European Parliament of the deal on the table. But what is
:32:00. > :32:02.important is that we were involved in it. We were not involved in the
:32:03. > :32:05.drafting of the Article 50 letter and I regret that so it is hugely
:32:06. > :32:10.important we are part of the process of developing a negotiating stance.
:32:11. > :32:14.It is not a good start, saying you have been ignored so will you throw
:32:15. > :32:17.your toys out of the pram at every stage? It is too serious for that
:32:18. > :32:22.but we will make a point on behalf of Wales if we think it is worth
:32:23. > :32:25.making and they have not listened to us. If they have listened to us, to
:32:26. > :32:27.an extent, they've moved closer when it comes to recognising the
:32:28. > :32:30.importance of the single market, as I say, I come from the perspective
:32:31. > :32:33.of wanting to formulate a joint position with the UK Government but
:32:34. > :32:37.clearly, if they take a position we don't agree with, we will say so.
:32:38. > :32:40.Whisper it quietly from your perspective but she appears to be
:32:41. > :32:44.giving you everything you want at this stage, trying to get tariff
:32:45. > :32:47.free trade, pretty conciliatory tone, as you said yourself, in the
:32:48. > :32:54.letter and even giving you further powers. What more do you want? There
:32:55. > :32:57.is an issue which is not yet resolved, what happens to the powers
:32:58. > :33:01.that currently sit in Brussels when they come back? Our view is, where
:33:02. > :33:03.they are devolved, where the large assembly has responsibility for
:33:04. > :33:06.them, they come directly to us and they don't go to Westminster bus but
:33:07. > :33:09.they have a different view. There's a debate at least be had there about
:33:10. > :33:13.where those powers go and I think they should come to Wales because I
:33:14. > :33:17.believe that is what people voted for last year. That position is as
:33:18. > :33:21.yet unresolved. But the tone today I think what the right one. It was
:33:22. > :33:29.sensible, mature. We have to make sure we get the bestie for Wales,
:33:30. > :33:31.the UK and the EU. Of course, everyone is after tariff free-trade,
:33:32. > :33:35.that is to say, Welsh companies exporting to the EU don't face an
:33:36. > :33:38.extra charge over and above what they do now. The reality of the
:33:39. > :33:42.situation is, though, that it is going to be nigh on impossible to
:33:43. > :33:46.get it in the current circumstances. You must acknowledge that. I think
:33:47. > :33:50.it is possible to do it, it's possible to look at alternative
:33:51. > :33:54.models, to start. We have suggested that the UK should look at being in
:33:55. > :33:57.the EEA at least temporarily which means access to the single market
:33:58. > :34:03.and being able to sell goods freely until we get a final deal. The EEA,
:34:04. > :34:06.European economic area, this is a legacy of the current arrangement
:34:07. > :34:11.but it is all going to change, isn't it? Why would they give us easy
:34:12. > :34:13.access to trade when we are leaving the club? They have free-trade
:34:14. > :34:19.agreements with other countries so there is no reason why there should
:34:20. > :34:23.not be a free-trade agreement with UK but these things take more than
:34:24. > :34:27.two years so we should be realistic about that. My thought is that
:34:28. > :34:30.free-trade agreements tend to exclude agriculture and fisheries
:34:31. > :34:33.and tariffs applied to them and the biggest tariffs on food, like 40% on
:34:34. > :34:37.dairy products. The last thing we want is for Welsh farmers to have
:34:38. > :34:40.massive tariffs on what they produce while at the same time bomb is huge
:34:41. > :34:44.uncertainty as to whether there will be any money available for subsidies
:34:45. > :34:48.beyond 2020. There is difference on immigration between you and the UK
:34:49. > :34:51.Government. You think the current, unrestricted free movement of labour
:34:52. > :34:54.should be controlled but fundamentally stay the same. She
:34:55. > :35:00.believes that there has to be a major change. She is more in tune
:35:01. > :35:03.with the Welsh public venue on this, isn't she? We have suggested a
:35:04. > :35:06.system of freedom of movement where someone has a job, not a general
:35:07. > :35:10.freedom, I think that's perfectly sensible. Besides, people have been
:35:11. > :35:14.sold a pup on this. The idea we control our borders is a whiz
:35:15. > :35:16.nonsense. You can't say, we will control our borders and
:35:17. > :35:20.incidentally, we will have an open border with the Republic of Ireland.
:35:21. > :35:22.It doesn't work unless people are prepared to do with the political
:35:23. > :35:26.consequences of a board in Ireland which would be entirely wrong, I
:35:27. > :35:29.think. I remember saying that people last year, it was never going to
:35:30. > :35:33.happen but let's acknowledge people are concerned about immigration so
:35:34. > :35:37.let's see how we deal with that. For me it means having a system which is
:35:38. > :35:40.sensible, fair, and people feel does not impinge on their ability to get
:35:41. > :35:46.a job. They want a system that fundamentally changes and you don't
:35:47. > :35:51.offer them that. We don't know what they want. Theresa May offers them
:35:52. > :35:54.the change. I know people were very concerned about immigration but I
:35:55. > :35:57.don't know what sort of system people wanted. Some people said they
:35:58. > :36:00.don't want any immigrants at all and some people say they wanted a small
:36:01. > :36:03.number of people or they should not be here in the first place but the
:36:04. > :36:07.majority of people wanted a sensible approach to immigration which is
:36:08. > :36:16.what we offered. If someone has a job, they can come and do the job
:36:17. > :36:18.without any restriction. Let me give you an important example, Airbus,
:36:19. > :36:21.the biggest single employer on one site in Wales, their people will
:36:22. > :36:23.literally move from being in the north side of Wales, Deeside the
:36:24. > :36:26.mandate, to Toulouse the next and if you are saying to them, every time
:36:27. > :36:29.there's people move back and forth, they have to fill in a form and have
:36:30. > :36:32.a Visa, that could be very difficult to keep investment in Wales. No one
:36:33. > :36:37.wants to see that so let's make sure it does not happen. Let's move on to
:36:38. > :36:43.what we touched on earlier, the extra powers she has promised. On
:36:44. > :36:46.this, at this stage, she is giving you everything you want. That's not
:36:47. > :36:50.clear because what we don't know... What they have not said if the
:36:51. > :36:54.powers that currently sit in Brussels, that are in areas already
:36:55. > :36:57.the responsibility of the assembly, that those powers should come
:36:58. > :37:02.straight here, not through London. That has not been made clear. It may
:37:03. > :37:05.well be that there's a need for all for governments -- four government
:37:06. > :37:09.is to work together to build a common framework on agriculture,
:37:10. > :37:12.fisheries, or what happens to the internal market of the UK because
:37:13. > :37:15.there won't be any rules. It makes sense to work together to agree
:37:16. > :37:18.those rules but they have to be agreed, not imposed by one
:37:19. > :37:21.government on the others and it has to be an independent system where
:37:22. > :37:25.there is a dispute about the rules. These things are not in place and
:37:26. > :37:29.they need to be. And talking about the legislation, it is meaningless
:37:30. > :37:33.without the money, obviously. Absolutely true. Do you think you
:37:34. > :37:38.will get the required funding in areas like farming, like regional
:37:39. > :37:41.aid? That was the promise, the promise was Weise would not lose a
:37:42. > :37:48.penny in funding and died ten to hold the people who made that
:37:49. > :37:50.promise to it. -- I intend to hold. Let's take agriculture, we don't
:37:51. > :37:53.know if there will be money available after 2020 at all but the
:37:54. > :37:58.farmers need the reassurance. To my mind, the way you do that is to say,
:37:59. > :38:03.a pot of money will be set aside... But it's not a realistic amount of
:38:04. > :38:07.money. Why not? That is what people were told, point Blank, that Wales
:38:08. > :38:12.will not lose a single penny in funding, whether it is farming in
:38:13. > :38:15.terms of -- or terms of economic funding. That is what the Levers
:38:16. > :38:20.told us and I expect the promised to be kept. Still so many divisions on
:38:21. > :38:24.this in the country, on this hugely symbolic day. Add you feel about the
:38:25. > :38:28.future now? There's lots of work to be done. If this is done properly,
:38:29. > :38:33.then actually, the effect can be minimal. It can be such that it
:38:34. > :38:37.won't cause us any difficulties at all or minimal difficulties. If it
:38:38. > :38:41.is done badly, it is a potential disaster, it makes Wales and the UK
:38:42. > :38:44.look like we're out on a limb, a group of islands off the coast of
:38:45. > :38:47.Europe which is not part of a very large market. Of course, we have the
:38:48. > :38:52.referendum result last year and it has to be respected. What do you
:38:53. > :39:04.think will happen? Will it be minimal or disastrous, as you say?
:39:05. > :39:07.There's no reason why it should be disastrous but I think it will take
:39:08. > :39:10.much more than two years, maybe five. We have to be patient, we have
:39:11. > :39:13.to make sure we get it right and don't rush it or get it wrong. First
:39:14. > :39:15.Minister, thank you. Let's get a different perspective. Earlier this
:39:16. > :39:18.afternoon, I spoke to the leader of Plaid Cymru. Leanne Wood, a tough
:39:19. > :39:20.day for you today, isn't it? We have got a Tory Prime Minister,
:39:21. > :39:27.delivering what you absolutely don't want to see happen, but the people
:39:28. > :39:30.you represent in the Rhondda wants to see it happen. I don't believe
:39:31. > :39:34.people in the Rhondda or anywhere else in Wales voted to leave the
:39:35. > :39:41.European Union, voted for an extreme Tory Brexit, which could result in
:39:42. > :39:44.the finances that we currently get for agriculture and regional
:39:45. > :39:50.development disappearing beyond 2020, whereby people who live in
:39:51. > :39:54.Wales from other European countries have no guarantees over their
:39:55. > :40:01.future, or I don't think people voted to leave to put at risk some
:40:02. > :40:06.of the economic gains we have made in this country in recent years.
:40:07. > :40:10.Hold on, and extreme Tory Brexit. People voted to leave the European
:40:11. > :40:15.Union and Theresa May is taking us out of the European Union. There was
:40:16. > :40:18.no question on the ballot paper about our continued participation in
:40:19. > :40:22.the single market, and she's made that clear, that we won't continue
:40:23. > :40:25.with the single market. What is important for us now... Because she
:40:26. > :40:35.wants to control immigration, surely one of the big messages from the
:40:36. > :40:38.referendum campaign? Again, that was not a question on the ballot paper.
:40:39. > :40:40.Now I accept from some of the conversations I have had with people
:40:41. > :40:42.that immigration is an issue. But I'm not convinced that some of the
:40:43. > :40:45.problems and concerns that people have with immigration are going to
:40:46. > :40:49.be resolved by Brexit. Many people are concerned about low wages and
:40:50. > :40:52.losing local services, for example. The reason they are losing local
:40:53. > :40:59.services is because of Tory austerities. Regardless of what
:41:00. > :41:02.happens with Brexit, some of the reasons people have given for
:41:03. > :41:05.pulling out are not going to be seen through. So people's expectations
:41:06. > :41:10.are unlikely to have been met and at the same time, they're all these
:41:11. > :41:13.risks. But the central issue was, and I think people didn't really
:41:14. > :41:16.like this, was the uncontrolled element of the free movement labour
:41:17. > :41:22.within the European Union and that is what she is addressing. But there
:41:23. > :41:26.are loads of controls on immigration, both within the EU and
:41:27. > :41:29.certainly from outside the EU. If you speak to people, they may well
:41:30. > :41:33.want to control immigration from eastern Europe but the numbers of
:41:34. > :41:38.people coming from other EU countries into Wales are very small.
:41:39. > :41:42.People may believe that immigration is the cause of many of their
:41:43. > :41:47.problems. I sense that they are going to be disappointed because
:41:48. > :41:50.even as those problems are ostensibly dealt with, people are
:41:51. > :41:54.not going to feel those pressures decreasing in their lives. If you
:41:55. > :41:58.look at the demands of Plaid Cymru in the negotiating process, you talk
:41:59. > :42:01.about continued membership of the European economic area, membership
:42:02. > :42:04.of the customs union, quite technical terms but the important
:42:05. > :42:09.point is, all of these are legacies of the single market. And quite
:42:10. > :42:14.clearly, we are coming out of that. This is Lala land, isn't it? At what
:42:15. > :42:18.point are you going to have to realise that your demands have no
:42:19. > :42:23.connection with the reality of the negotiations that are going on? What
:42:24. > :42:26.does it mean, then? We have absolutely no idea other than what
:42:27. > :42:31.it is not going to be, what it does mean. The key thing for us now is
:42:32. > :42:33.the question of tariffs and the additional costs that could be
:42:34. > :42:40.imposed from other regulatory costs will stop his Mrs have told me that
:42:41. > :42:43.it is very -- businesses have told me it's very important they don't
:42:44. > :42:46.have additional cost. In some cases, they are already struggling to keep
:42:47. > :42:50.going and it does not take a genius to work out that if you put a 10%
:42:51. > :42:54.tariff on parts coming into a company, or the finished product
:42:55. > :42:57.going out, that many Welsh businesses are not going to hang
:42:58. > :43:00.around and face those costs. It is pretty obvious but we have had no
:43:01. > :43:07.guarantees about tariff free access to date. That is why membership of
:43:08. > :43:10.the single market was so important to us because that participation
:43:11. > :43:14.would ensure that those additional costs don't fall on those employers
:43:15. > :43:18.which are providing really important jobs for people throughout the
:43:19. > :43:23.country. Jill Evans, your MEP, said this is the start of Wales'
:43:24. > :43:28.renaissance as an independent European nation. Is that how you see
:43:29. > :43:32.it? Do you think this is the start of Wales becoming an independent
:43:33. > :43:36.nation? Well, that is the potential for us, isn't it? To try and find
:43:37. > :43:39.ways of making this beneficial for Welsh people. I've always believed
:43:40. > :43:43.that decisions about Wales are best made in Wales and what we have to
:43:44. > :43:45.make absolutely sure of through this process is that those powers that
:43:46. > :43:51.are going to be coming from Brussels don't end up getting stuck in
:43:52. > :43:56.London. Theresa May said that today, they will come to Wales. I will wait
:43:57. > :43:58.and see the action on that because the Prime Minister did say that
:43:59. > :44:02.there will be consultation with the devolved nations that make up the
:44:03. > :44:07.UK. I've not seen any evidence of that having happened yet. So I've
:44:08. > :44:13.heard a lot of words from the Prime Minister. His actions I am keen to
:44:14. > :44:17.see and actions I will judge her on. Do you think this huge process,
:44:18. > :44:21.redefining our relationship at the European Union, at the same time,
:44:22. > :44:23.people in Wales are really interested in independence? The
:44:24. > :44:28.question has been thrown up in the air now. What is going to happen to
:44:29. > :44:32.us in the longer term? If Scotland becomes an independent nation, the
:44:33. > :44:35.UK will no longer exist. It is up to people in Wales to decide what we do
:44:36. > :44:38.with our future and it is a matter of principle for me that people
:44:39. > :44:45.should have the self-determination in order to decide where they go
:44:46. > :44:48.next. And they decided they wanted to come out of European Union and
:44:49. > :44:55.the truth is, Plaid Cymru is out of step with the people.
:44:56. > :45:02.We accept the result. The question has been for us since the referendum
:45:03. > :45:06.is how we leave. I see from today that the Prime Minister is
:45:07. > :45:09.determined to go ahead with an extreme Tory Brexit, and that is not
:45:10. > :45:15.going to be good for the majority of working people here in this country.
:45:16. > :45:19.Of all the senior Welsh political leaders I've interviewed after
:45:20. > :45:24.Brexit, you were the one who is most concerned about the impact of
:45:25. > :45:26.Brexit. How sad you today, personally?
:45:27. > :45:30.I've been disappointed ever since the referendum result. I consider
:45:31. > :45:34.myself to be a Welsh European. I would like Wales to continue with
:45:35. > :45:38.the links we've built up with countries in other parts of Europe,
:45:39. > :45:43.and in particular those stateless nations. Even though we are outside
:45:44. > :45:47.the European Union, I very hope that those good relations can continue
:45:48. > :45:51.because it's very much our wealth is Welsh national interests for them
:45:52. > :45:55.to. -- our Welsh national interest. Thank you. Leanne Wood there. Ukip
:45:56. > :46:00.was a party formed with a specific intention of taking us out of the
:46:01. > :46:07.EU. A little earlier I spoke to the party's leader in the assembly.
:46:08. > :46:11.Neil Hamilton, the Ukip job is completed, you can put your feet up,
:46:12. > :46:16.your work is now done. You must be joking, this is where the hard
:46:17. > :46:20.business of playing a full part in the Brexit process begins for us,
:46:21. > :46:23.because over the next two years there will be a negotiation by the
:46:24. > :46:28.British government, and we need to ensure that we get the best, most
:46:29. > :46:30.Eurosceptic outcome from this process.
:46:31. > :46:35.You have to manage expectations, haven't you? There are very high
:46:36. > :46:39.expectations on the issue of immigration. This is going to be
:46:40. > :46:44.difficult, isn't it, to introduce full control of our borders? How are
:46:45. > :46:47.you going to manage that is, people have been sold a pup on this haven't
:46:48. > :46:51.they? We want an Australian style points
:46:52. > :46:55.system which enables us to take from those who want to want to come here,
:46:56. > :46:58.those who can contribute to the British economy and not be a burden
:46:59. > :47:02.on it and to fill the skills gaps that exist because of the failures
:47:03. > :47:06.in our education system and so on. We think we can cherry pick from
:47:07. > :47:10.those around the world who want to come here. My doubts are about the
:47:11. > :47:16.willingness of this Conservative government to deliver on what is the
:47:17. > :47:19.implied promise of controlling our borders, because they've had the
:47:20. > :47:23.ability to do this in respective countries outside the EU and
:47:24. > :47:27.dismally failed. That's a problem, you can't take on
:47:28. > :47:32.immigration policy in isolation from trade. We have is to strike decent
:47:33. > :47:36.rules on trade as well. Is immigration the be all and end all
:47:37. > :47:40.for you, in the sense it doesn't really matter if it ends up wrecking
:47:41. > :47:44.the economy at the same time? It wouldn't wreck the economy
:47:45. > :47:48.anyway, we have to keep this in perspective. If we were reduced to
:47:49. > :47:52.just go back to the World Trade Organisation's rules and were able
:47:53. > :47:55.to do a deal of any guide with the EU, that would hardly be the end of
:47:56. > :47:59.the world. There would be a price we have to pay, change always brings a
:48:00. > :48:03.cost. Hold on, very substantial tariffs,
:48:04. > :48:09.extra charges for Welsh exporters into the EU. Under the World Trade
:48:10. > :48:13.Organisation rules that will be devastating for people you
:48:14. > :48:17.represent, farmers, across Wales. It would affect some sectors of the
:48:18. > :48:21.economy more than others. Bearing in mind... Farming for example, the
:48:22. > :48:28.total value of farming output in Wales is less than half a billion a
:48:29. > :48:30.year. In the Welsh -- the Welsh Government spends ?15 billion a year
:48:31. > :48:35.is a relatively small amount of money. So it doesn't matter about
:48:36. > :48:38.the farmers Margo would not at all. Given the Brexit dividend, we will
:48:39. > :48:44.get back from the EU eight alien pounds more, the UK Government will
:48:45. > :48:50.have money in its pockets to ensure that farming doesn't suffer,
:48:51. > :48:55.whatever the trade terms are of our relationship with the EU. We want to
:48:56. > :48:58.continue the arrangements for trade broadly speaking as they are now.
:48:59. > :49:02.It's up to the EU whether they want to take that offer or not. We put
:49:03. > :49:07.the offer on the table. If they don't want it, that's not something
:49:08. > :49:12.we can control. Is there such a thing as a bad deal
:49:13. > :49:18.for you? Or any deal would be good? There are better and worse deals,
:49:19. > :49:25.but for me self-government is the issue, above all others. The world
:49:26. > :49:28.is our oyster. We can trade more happily and more prosperously with
:49:29. > :49:33.the rest of the world outside the EU than we can within it. Because we
:49:34. > :49:40.can do deals with the United States, for example. 22% of' exports go to
:49:41. > :49:43.the United United States. And we can develop that. The Trump
:49:44. > :49:48.administration, whatever you may think of it, Trump is very
:49:49. > :49:51.pro-British and we should trade on that.
:49:52. > :49:54.Let's talk about the divorce payment that will come at the start of these
:49:55. > :49:59.negotiations, the financial liabilities that the UK will owe to
:50:00. > :50:04.the EU. In a way it's a bit like paying a tab at a bar. We owe money,
:50:05. > :50:07.we might not like to have to do this, but we're just going to have
:50:08. > :50:12.to pay it at the end of the day? In a division of assets in the
:50:13. > :50:17.divorce there is trade both ways. If the EU wants us to continue to pay
:50:18. > :50:21.for the revenue streams that we leave behind us, we want a share of
:50:22. > :50:25.the assets as well. The buildings owned by the EU, for example, and
:50:26. > :50:30.other assets, those don't seem to be on the table. I think this is
:50:31. > :50:33.playacting by the EU, actually. Any British government that agreed to
:50:34. > :50:38.pay substantial sums of money to the EU on leaving it would undermine one
:50:39. > :50:41.of the main purposes of Brexit. Could discover the entire
:50:42. > :50:45.negotiations, right at the start? Should we end up walking away and
:50:46. > :50:49.crashing out? I don't think we should walk away
:50:50. > :50:51.but it's up to the EU ultimately to decide what they are prepared to
:50:52. > :50:54.accept. I think Britain should have a
:50:55. > :50:58.certain number of red lines and one of them should be that we're not
:50:59. > :51:04.going to pay any more into the EU budget. We've paid ?500 billion into
:51:05. > :51:09.the EU over above Eric Berry anything we've got back in the last
:51:10. > :51:13.40 odd years. A big day for you, I wonder if you
:51:14. > :51:15.and your wife Christine opened the champagne today or if you're going
:51:16. > :51:22.to? We certainly will crack a bottle
:51:23. > :51:26.later on! It is a day to celebrate, because it's 50 years ago almost to
:51:27. > :51:31.the day since I joined the anti-Common market league and I've
:51:32. > :51:35.been fighting the battle my life. Will you still be smiling in two
:51:36. > :51:42.years' time? I hope so. I'm optimistic about written's and
:51:43. > :51:46.Wales's future outside of the EU. Becoming self-governing again. In
:51:47. > :51:52.result of Brexit, Wales will get more powers. It is a great day for
:51:53. > :51:57.the Welsh Assembly because we will get more power.
:51:58. > :52:01.Neil Hamilton, thank you very much. Neil Hamilton planning a
:52:02. > :52:05.celebration, but one party which won't be popping corks are the
:52:06. > :52:09.Liberal Democrats. I am joined now from Westminster, where the leader
:52:10. > :52:12.in Wales Mark Williams joined us. Good evening. In contrast Neil
:52:13. > :52:17.Hamilton I guess you will be drowning your sorrows tonight?
:52:18. > :52:21.I don't know about that, the Prime Minister said in a statement today
:52:22. > :52:25.there will be celebrations for some, disappointment for others. I think
:52:26. > :52:27.measure be a category for those who are disappointed and genuinely
:52:28. > :52:30.worried about the course of the events that will happen over the
:52:31. > :52:37.next several years. She's going after a free-trade deal,
:52:38. > :52:41.to make it as easy, potentially, for exporters. She said she's going to
:52:42. > :52:44.give more powers to the assembly. This is exactly what you called for,
:52:45. > :52:48.isn't it? The proof of the pudding is in the
:52:49. > :52:52.eating. I listen to the statement and heard the words, I heard her
:52:53. > :52:55.talk about that deep and meaningful partnership with European countries.
:52:56. > :52:59.It depends what that means and it depends what that is, if an
:53:00. > :53:00.agreement is able to be concluded within two years. That is
:53:01. > :53:15.questionable. She talked about how was that the
:53:16. > :53:17.National Assembly coming after consultation. Some of those powers
:53:18. > :53:20.will reside in Whitehall still, others will come to Cardiff. Which
:53:21. > :53:23.ones? We are in the preliminary stages now the phoney war has ended.
:53:24. > :53:25.And earlier in a statement you said she has chosen to force her own
:53:26. > :53:31.interpretation of the referendum out, and Wales and England, tearing
:53:32. > :53:35.Wales' industry, farmers out of the world's biggest single market. So we
:53:36. > :53:38.ignore the referendum result? Notes. I think the referendum result
:53:39. > :53:47.illustrated a vast array of genuine concerns. It illustrated a departure
:53:48. > :53:52.point, but not the destination. I think it's quite clear that the
:53:53. > :53:56.impact of leaving a market of 500 million people, where for instant
:53:57. > :54:00.60% of our agricultural exports go, it's a real concern. As part of
:54:01. > :54:04.negotiations, there has to be an alternative. We don't know what that
:54:05. > :54:09.alternative is here. The negotiations haven't started. More
:54:10. > :54:14.worrying if the negotiations are not continued concluded in two years,
:54:15. > :54:17.the World Trade Organisation tariffs, 40% on dairy products.
:54:18. > :54:23.Genuine concerns. I hope the warm words of the Prime Minister are
:54:24. > :54:29.achievable in many areas, but it's the job of opposition politicians,
:54:30. > :54:33.Labour, Plaid and ourselves to ask questions, to hold them to account
:54:34. > :54:38.as this process proceeds and we will do that. You have very much staked a
:54:39. > :54:42.claim on this. She also said we should no longer be defined by the
:54:43. > :54:50.votes we cast. In other words, a real appeal for unity. Isn't it time
:54:51. > :54:56.for very divisive messages still from the Liberal Democrats, to come,
:54:57. > :54:59.to certainly change, as you say yourself, the phoney war comes to an
:55:00. > :55:03.end and we get to the business end of things? It's not divisive
:55:04. > :55:07.language from Liberal Democrats that genuine walks genuine concerns we
:55:08. > :55:10.get this right. I have to go back to my constituents, farming families,
:55:11. > :55:14.the manufacturing sector, and talk about people's livelihoods. This is
:55:15. > :55:18.what is at stake. I understand what the Prime Minister is saying but I
:55:19. > :55:23.have to say, there has to be some sense of compromise from the
:55:24. > :55:28.government. We had the enacting 50 bill, sensible search opposition
:55:29. > :55:31.members put forward an accountability, status of EU
:55:32. > :55:34.nationals and Wales, we were ignored every step of the way. Like the
:55:35. > :55:38.First Minister, I have concerns about the extent to which the Welsh
:55:39. > :55:43.voices being listened to in Whitehall. That issue needs to be
:55:44. > :55:46.addressed. If there's going to be an agenda of us coming together then
:55:47. > :55:51.there has to be some movement from the UK Government as well. All too
:55:52. > :55:55.often, I have to say, it strikes me these days that Mrs May is looking
:55:56. > :55:58.over her shoulder at what certain elements of the Tory party are
:55:59. > :56:01.saying rather than the national interest quite the Liberal Democrats
:56:02. > :56:09.used to be the party of the middle ground, the middleweight. I can see
:56:10. > :56:15.politically why your messaging is tailored to those on the Remain
:56:16. > :56:19.side. In a way does your kind of message broadly reflect the general
:56:20. > :56:23.public out there, and the public in Wales?
:56:24. > :56:28.I'm not going to dispute the legitimacy of the referendum result
:56:29. > :56:31.on June 23. My constituency voted Remain, most others didn't. I
:56:32. > :56:37.understand that and respect that, but we now have to move on. I can't
:56:38. > :56:40.emphasise enough, the phoney war has ended, now it's to the
:56:41. > :56:45.practicalities, the hard realities as to what this means for the people
:56:46. > :56:49.of Wales. I just think we'd be doing a huge disservice to the country if
:56:50. > :56:52.we didn't raise the legitimate concerns of the manufacturing
:56:53. > :57:01.sector, the farming unions, the people from overseas who now work in
:57:02. > :57:04.the national health service in Wales, all those groups need a
:57:05. > :57:07.voice. You read Mrs May's statement and letter to President Tusk on
:57:08. > :57:10.their point of consensus, if it can be achieved. My fear is that can't
:57:11. > :57:14.be achieved, certainly within the time frame that has been set for us.
:57:15. > :57:20.The First Minister earlier saying the impact of this could be minimal.
:57:21. > :57:26.What is a decent deal for you, what does it look like? I do believe that
:57:27. > :57:31.the tone that the First Minister and the principal opposition party by
:57:32. > :57:35.default, and my party, that document which talked about unfettered access
:57:36. > :57:39.to the single market is absolutely critical. The Prime Minister has
:57:40. > :57:44.talked about a deep and meaningful partnership. Is there a big gap
:57:45. > :57:48.between those two things? I don't know. More fundamentally, not a gap
:57:49. > :57:51.between the national assembly government and the UK Government
:57:52. > :57:57.that the gap between this country and our friends in Europe, what is
:57:58. > :58:00.achievable? Certainly access to the market is absolutely critical for
:58:01. > :58:03.the communities they represent, and right across the country as well.
:58:04. > :58:09.That goes to the very heart of this issue.
:58:10. > :58:13.Very briefly on this, can this be done within two years question at
:58:14. > :58:17.what sort of time frame do you think we are looking at?
:58:18. > :58:20.I'm genuinely concerned about that. The Welsh affairs committee went to
:58:21. > :58:24.Brussels two or three weeks ago. The message we heard, you might get your
:58:25. > :58:28.divorce in two years but the trade negotiations, which won't run in
:58:29. > :58:31.tandem, could go on for seven or nine years. OK, Mr Williams, we have
:58:32. > :58:33.to leave it there. Thank you. That is about it from us
:58:34. > :58:55.on the day the Prime Minister triggered Article
:58:56. > :58:57.50. Ahead, at least two years of negotiating, working out how the
:58:58. > :59:00.details of how we will leave the EU. More coverage later this evening on
:59:01. > :59:02.Wales Today after the News at 10pm, but from this special series of