:00:40. > :00:45.So, Prime Minister, the negotiations to leave the European Union begin,
:00:46. > :00:50.it is an historic moment for our country - in what ways will Britain
:00:51. > :00:54.be a better country for leaving the European Union? Well, you're
:00:55. > :00:57.absolutely right, Andrew, that this is a historic moment for our
:00:58. > :01:01.country. We are putting into place now the decision that was taken in
:01:02. > :01:06.the referendum on the 23rd of June last year to leave the European
:01:07. > :01:10.Union. And the formal process has begun, I have written to, as they
:01:11. > :01:14.say, invoke this Article 50 that people will have heard about, which
:01:15. > :01:18.starts the process of formal negotiations. As we look to the
:01:19. > :01:22.outcome of those negotiations, I believe that we should be optimistic
:01:23. > :01:27.as a country about what we can achieve. I think, when people voted
:01:28. > :01:31.last June, what they voted for was for us to be in control, in control
:01:32. > :01:42.of our borders, in control of our laws. But I think people also voted
:01:43. > :01:45.for change in the country, and that is why, alongside the work that we
:01:46. > :01:47.are doing on Brexit, I am clear that the Government has a plan for
:01:48. > :01:50.Britain to build a more outward looking country with a strong
:01:51. > :01:57.economy where everybody plays by the same rules, a Ferres -- there are
:01:58. > :02:00.society, to ensure we are a more united nation, somewhere that our
:02:01. > :02:04.children and grandchildren could be proud to call home. But we couldn't
:02:05. > :02:08.have been better in all these ways and remained in the European Union?
:02:09. > :02:12.The British people decided that they wanted to come out, and when they
:02:13. > :02:16.did make that vote, when they gave that clear message to us as
:02:17. > :02:21.politicians, what they wanted to see was the United Kingdom making its
:02:22. > :02:24.own decisions, and not feeling that decisions were being taken in
:02:25. > :02:30.Brussels. In the letter that I have sent to trigger this formal process
:02:31. > :02:34.today, I make the point that we are not rejecting Europe, we are not
:02:35. > :02:38.rejecting the values of democracy and European values - what we are
:02:39. > :02:41.saying is that it is about our national self-determination as a
:02:42. > :02:46.United Kingdom, about us having control. You have mentioned that
:02:47. > :02:49.several times, so let me start with immigration, and I do that because,
:02:50. > :02:53.for many people, the scale of immigration over the last ten years
:02:54. > :02:57.was a major reason, not the only reason, a major reason why they
:02:58. > :03:02.voted to leave. So can the people who voted that way be reassured that
:03:03. > :03:06.immigration will be significantly lower after Brexit? Well, you are
:03:07. > :03:09.right, for a lot of people, immigration was one of the issues
:03:10. > :03:14.that was key in their minds. Again, I think what they wanted to know was
:03:15. > :03:19.that it was the UK Government taking control of our borders, that
:03:20. > :03:23.decisions would be made here in the UK. Now, obviously, we want to see
:03:24. > :03:27.net migration coming down. We have been able to put rules in place in
:03:28. > :03:31.relation to people coming here to the UK from outside the European
:03:32. > :03:36.Union. Now, as a result of leaving the EU, when we leave, we will be
:03:37. > :03:39.able to put rules in place decided here about the basis upon which
:03:40. > :03:44.people can come from the European Union. But will immigration be
:03:45. > :03:48.significantly lower? We will see a difference in the number of people
:03:49. > :03:52.coming in, but I was Home Secretary for six years, and when you look at
:03:53. > :03:55.immigration, you constantly have to look at this issue, because there
:03:56. > :03:58.are so money variables, so many different things that can happen in
:03:59. > :04:03.the world that affect the numbers of people trying to come to the UK.
:04:04. > :04:07.What we will be able to do, as a result of leaving the EU, is to have
:04:08. > :04:12.control of our borders, to set those rules for people coming from
:04:13. > :04:15.outside, from inside the European Union into the UK. We haven't been
:04:16. > :04:20.able to do that, so we will be able to have control on those numbers,
:04:21. > :04:23.set the rules for that, as we have been able to set the rules for
:04:24. > :04:27.others in the past. What will the rules be for EU citizens in the
:04:28. > :04:31.future? Well, we are looking at the moment at what we think should be
:04:32. > :04:40.right, and we will be actually bringing forward a Bill in
:04:41. > :04:43.Parliament in due course which will set out our proposals. There is, if
:04:44. > :04:46.you like, a couple of this use around people from the European
:04:47. > :04:48.Union. There are quite a few people from the European Union already
:04:49. > :04:51.living in the UK, some for a considerable period of time, others
:04:52. > :04:54.more recently. One of the things I want to be able to do is give them
:04:55. > :04:58.reassurance about their future, but I only want to do that when I know
:04:59. > :05:02.that those UK citizens who have moved over to countries in the
:05:03. > :05:06.European Union are also going to have that reassurance and those
:05:07. > :05:10.guarantees. I understand that, but what I am talking about is people
:05:11. > :05:14.coming here in the future from the EU - would you envisage, as part of
:05:15. > :05:19.a Brexit deal, that they would still be some sort of preference for EU
:05:20. > :05:22.citizens who want to work here? Well, what I am clear about is that
:05:23. > :05:27.there will still be opportunities for people to come to the UK from
:05:28. > :05:30.the EU, but we will bring forward specific proposals on what the rules
:05:31. > :05:34.should be in June course, and those will go through out the parliament,
:05:35. > :05:37.those will be looked at by Members of Parliament, and we will decide
:05:38. > :05:43.what those rules should be. We want to make sure, of course, that our
:05:44. > :05:46.economy is still strong, we see many people working in our economy,
:05:47. > :05:51.working in the public sector, and we want to make sure that we still have
:05:52. > :05:55.that strong economy. But people won't us to be in control, and that
:05:56. > :05:58.is the important thing, and that is what we will be doing. The
:05:59. > :06:05.Conservatives promise to cut net migration to 100,000 year, seven
:06:06. > :06:09.years ago, and we're nowhere near that figure. Indeed, non-EU
:06:10. > :06:14.migration, people coming from beyond the EU, that migration alone is well
:06:15. > :06:17.over 100,000 a year. You must understand why people are sceptical
:06:18. > :06:21.about anything you say on immigration. Well, if you look at
:06:22. > :06:26.what has happened to those migration figures, those net migration figures
:06:27. > :06:29.over the last seven years, they went up, they have come down, gone up
:06:30. > :06:33.again, and they are now starting to come down. They are higher than we
:06:34. > :06:35.want them to be, and you are absolutely right about them being
:06:36. > :06:40.higher than we want them to be. But that is why what I have just said is
:06:41. > :06:45.so important, that, in immigration, you cannot one set of rules and
:06:46. > :06:49.think, that is the answer, and you go away and forget about it.
:06:50. > :06:53.Actually, you have constantly to be looking at this, constantly working,
:06:54. > :06:58.constantly saying, have we got the rules right? You cannot, I would
:06:59. > :07:04.suggest, reduce net migration to 100,000 without major cuts in EU and
:07:05. > :07:07.non-EU immigration, is that not right? We need to look across the
:07:08. > :07:10.board, as well as introducing rules for people from the EU, we need to
:07:11. > :07:14.continue looking across the board. But there is something else we need
:07:15. > :07:19.to do as a country, of course, which is make sure that people here in the
:07:20. > :07:23.UK have the skills they need to take the jobs here so that businesses
:07:24. > :07:26.don't feel they have to reach out overseas to bring people in all the
:07:27. > :07:32.time. One final thing on immigration, though - the British
:07:33. > :07:35.economy has done better than most forecasters said at the time of the
:07:36. > :07:39.referendum, and it continue to do pretty well this year. What happens
:07:40. > :07:44.if we continue to do well and you need more than 100,000 migrants a
:07:45. > :07:47.year? Would you let them in? One of the things I have just said is
:07:48. > :07:52.crucial, we look to our economy for the future, it is for us to make
:07:53. > :07:55.sure that people here in the UK are getting the training, the education,
:07:56. > :07:59.the skills they need to be able to take on the jobs for that growing
:08:00. > :08:03.economy in the future. That is why, as a government, we are putting more
:08:04. > :08:09.money into technical education, for example, ensuring that young people
:08:10. > :08:11.have the opportunity to get these deals they need. I want to see a
:08:12. > :08:14.high-paid, high skill economy in the future, but we need to ensure that
:08:15. > :08:18.young people today are going to be able to take those jobs tomorrow.
:08:19. > :08:24.The EU has talked of a one-off multi-billion pound exit the. Some
:08:25. > :08:27.have suggested it could be as much as ?50 billion, maybe more. Would
:08:28. > :08:33.you contemplate a son anything like that? When people voted last year,
:08:34. > :08:38.one of the things they voted for was to ensure that, in a future, outside
:08:39. > :08:40.the EU, we are not paying significant sums of money on an
:08:41. > :08:44.annual basis into the European Union. Of course, we have to look at
:08:45. > :08:48.the rights and obligations we have as a member of the EU, while we
:08:49. > :08:52.continue to be a member, until we leave. We will carry on paying
:08:53. > :08:59.according to the obligations we have as a member. But will we pay an exit
:09:00. > :09:02.fee of anything like 50 billion? As we look at the negotiations, we have
:09:03. > :09:06.to decide what the obligations are, but what I am very clear about is
:09:07. > :09:10.that what people want to see is that, in the future, we will be
:09:11. > :09:14.making decisions about our budget, we will be deciding not to pay those
:09:15. > :09:18.sums of money every year into the European Union. I understand we may
:09:19. > :09:21.continue to decide with some programmes and make those
:09:22. > :09:26.contributions, but I am not talking about that, I am talking about an
:09:27. > :09:31.exit fee that the EU was talking about, demanding almost, around 50
:09:32. > :09:36.billion. So I ask again, is that in the ballpark that you would
:09:37. > :09:40.contemplate? Well, you talk about an exit fee, there has been a lot of
:09:41. > :09:45.speculation. Actually, there isn't a formal demand, the negotiations
:09:46. > :09:50.haven't started yet, I am very clear about what people in the UK expect,
:09:51. > :09:55.but I am also clear that we are a law-abiding nation, we will meet
:09:56. > :09:58.obligations that we have. And as a member, until the point and which we
:09:59. > :10:02.leave, of course we will be continuing to pay according to the
:10:03. > :10:07.rights and obligations of membership. Many people will be
:10:08. > :10:11.wondering - we are leaving, why should we pay anything at all to the
:10:12. > :10:17.EU? Well, we're not talking about paying to leave, we will be leaving
:10:18. > :10:20.the EU. We are talking about ensuring that, when we leave, first
:10:21. > :10:26.of all, when we leave, people will see that we will be taking decisions
:10:27. > :10:28.about our budget, we will not be required to make significant
:10:29. > :10:32.payments every year into the EU's budget. As you say, there may be
:10:33. > :10:36.some particular programmes we want to be members of, that we wish to
:10:37. > :10:39.pay in order to be members of, because it would be in the national
:10:40. > :10:45.interest to do that, and that is what will drive us. The European
:10:46. > :10:48.Union is talking about a divorce bill, Michel Barnier, the head
:10:49. > :10:52.negotiator, is talking about that, are we prepared to pay a divorce
:10:53. > :10:58.bill? There has been a lot of speculation and comment about this,
:10:59. > :11:01.we're not in the negotiations yet, we will start those formal
:11:02. > :11:05.negotiations soon. We have done the first step, which is triggering
:11:06. > :11:09.Article 50, and as I have said, you know, the UK is a law-abiding
:11:10. > :11:14.nation, we will look at the rights and obligations that we have. You
:11:15. > :11:19.mentioned already the importance of EU citizens in the UK, and UK
:11:20. > :11:23.citizens in the EU, and they would like to be reassured about their
:11:24. > :11:26.future. Do you believe that you can resolve and announce this quickly?
:11:27. > :11:32.Well, one of the things I've put in the letter to President Tusk is
:11:33. > :11:36.precisely that I want to get an early agreement about this, and
:11:37. > :11:40.sometimes people say to me, as you have, that EU citizens here are
:11:41. > :11:44.concerned about their future, and I recognise that they are, but as UK
:11:45. > :11:51.Prime Minister I need to think about UK citizens living abroad as well.
:11:52. > :11:55.But can both be reassured quickly? I want a reciprocal agreement in terms
:11:56. > :11:59.of guaranteeing the status of EU citizens and UK citizens, and I have
:12:00. > :12:04.said that I think it should be done at an early stage. I believe, from
:12:05. > :12:08.the talks I have add with other leaders, that there is a goodwill
:12:09. > :12:11.there, that there are those who recognise the importance of giving
:12:12. > :12:15.people reassurance, and I think we will be able to address this as one
:12:16. > :12:19.of the early things that we talk about in the negotiations. By early,
:12:20. > :12:24.could it be this summer? I don't want to put a date on it, but I
:12:25. > :12:27.wanted to be as early as possible, precisely because, as you have just
:12:28. > :12:36.said, people are worried about their futures, it is only fair to work to
:12:37. > :12:39.give them reassurance as soon as we can. You believe Brexit means we can
:12:40. > :12:42.no longer be members of the single market - why? Because the other
:12:43. > :12:46.leaders in Europe have made very clear that what they call, they use
:12:47. > :12:50.this term of the four freedoms that are indivisible, they go together,
:12:51. > :12:53.so what are they? The importance of free movement, and we have said we
:12:54. > :12:59.want to control movement from the EU. It is membership of the single
:13:00. > :13:03.market, accepting that free movement. It also entails accepting
:13:04. > :13:06.the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. These are exactly
:13:07. > :13:10.things that people voted to reject when they voted to leave the
:13:11. > :13:14.European Union. And so I have accepted that we cannot have that
:13:15. > :13:16.membership of the single market, because to do it would mean
:13:17. > :13:21.accepting things that the voters have said they don't want. But what
:13:22. > :13:26.we can do, I believe, is to get a really good trade agreement with the
:13:27. > :13:30.European Union, in terms of access for our businesses to their single
:13:31. > :13:34.market, and of course for their businesses to our market. Do you
:13:35. > :13:37.accept that no matter how good a free-trade deal you are going to
:13:38. > :13:46.get, and I accept your try to get the best you can, no matter how
:13:47. > :13:48.good, it cannot be as good as unrestricted access that we
:13:49. > :13:51.currently enjoy as members of the single market? I believe we can get
:13:52. > :13:57.a comprehensive free-trade agreement, we would like to see as
:13:58. > :14:01.frictionless free-trade as possible, tariff free across borders, so that
:14:02. > :14:08.we can continue that trade with the European Union. But can you? It will
:14:09. > :14:11.be a different relationship, because it will not be based on a bishop of
:14:12. > :14:16.the single market and accepting all the other thing is that voters
:14:17. > :14:20.rejected. -- waste on membership. It will be saying that we want that new
:14:21. > :14:24.partnership with the EU, we want to cooperate with you, and actually
:14:25. > :14:28.getting a trade agreement isn't just about the UK, it is not just about
:14:29. > :14:32.our businesses, it is about businesses in other countries being
:14:33. > :14:36.able to trade with us. So I think it is in the interests of both sides to
:14:37. > :14:40.agree a really good deal. I understand that, but David Davis,
:14:41. > :14:42.the Brexit minister, said there would be a free-trade deal which
:14:43. > :14:48.would deliver the exact same benefits we enjoy now. You and I
:14:49. > :14:54.know that cannot be true. The European Union will never agree to
:14:55. > :14:57.the exact same benefits. What we are both looking for is a competence of
:14:58. > :15:01.free-trade agreement which gives that ability to trade freely into
:15:02. > :15:06.the European single market. -- comprehensive. It will be a
:15:07. > :15:08.different relationship, but I think it can have the same benefits in
:15:09. > :15:12.terms of free access to trade. When we leave the EU we end our
:15:13. > :15:15.membership of I think about 40 pan-European agencies
:15:16. > :15:16.and other arrangements. In science, security,
:15:17. > :15:18.air travel and healthcare. I want to ask about
:15:19. > :15:20.two specific ones. One is a very timely
:15:21. > :15:22.one, given the events Will our membership
:15:23. > :15:31.of Europol, the police Europewide service,
:15:32. > :15:33.will that continue post-Brexit? That's one of the things
:15:34. > :15:35.that we will have to negotiate I think security co-operation
:15:36. > :15:45.in a number of crime and justice It's not just Europol,
:15:46. > :15:50.there are some other things. There are systems about exchanging
:15:51. > :15:52.information about people crossing Which I think are valuable,
:15:53. > :15:55.valuable to us and valuable But would you like to remain
:15:56. > :16:05.a member of Europol? I've argued before, for exactly
:16:06. > :16:10.this, when a couple of years ago, when we were looking at exactly
:16:11. > :16:13.these justice and home I think it is important for us
:16:14. > :16:18.and I want us to be able to continue that degree of co-operation,
:16:19. > :16:21.but it will be part of the package of negotiations because,
:16:22. > :16:27.at the moment, when we leave the European Union, unless we've
:16:28. > :16:29.negotiated still to be members of those sorts
:16:30. > :16:31.of organisations and arrangements, If it lapses, would we cease
:16:32. > :16:37.to share information with Europe? Well, we wouldn't be able to access
:16:38. > :16:40.information in the same way So it's important, I think,
:16:41. > :16:44.that we're able to negotiate a continuing relationship that
:16:45. > :16:46.enables us to work together As I've said, right at the moment -
:16:47. > :16:55.of course this is very much brought home to us in London last week -
:16:56. > :16:59.right at the moment, now is not a time given the threats
:17:00. > :17:02.that we face across Europe for us to see less co-operation
:17:03. > :17:03.in this area. We want to continue that
:17:04. > :17:06.co-operation and build on it. Let me ask you another question
:17:07. > :17:08.something that concerns people. Will UK citizens still be eligible
:17:09. > :17:11.for free access to healthcare across the EU through the European
:17:12. > :17:13.health insurance card? Well, that also will be
:17:14. > :17:16.a matter that will be part But will it be your
:17:17. > :17:20.aim to secure that? There are two issues, the issue
:17:21. > :17:24.of people who are currently resident in European Union member states
:17:25. > :17:29.and the rights that they have and then of course the rights
:17:30. > :17:31.that people will have We want to get the best
:17:32. > :17:35.possible deal for citizens I want to get the best possible deal
:17:36. > :17:40.for everybody in what ever part of the United Kingdom
:17:41. > :17:41.they are living. But we have a whole raft
:17:42. > :17:47.of negotiations that A whole raft of issues
:17:48. > :17:51.that we will be looking Of course, we need
:17:52. > :17:54.the flexibility of being able The relationship will be
:17:55. > :17:57.different in the future. It's not necessarily
:17:58. > :18:00.a question of saying - are we going to replicate this
:18:01. > :18:02.or replicate that? Actually, we will have a different
:18:03. > :18:06.relationship with Europe. You talk about a whole raft
:18:07. > :18:09.of things that have to be decided, Now, you need to negotiate
:18:10. > :18:13.our divorce terms. You want a new free trade deal
:18:14. > :18:20.for goods and services. You want new crime
:18:21. > :18:26.fighting arrangements, new health arrangements
:18:27. > :18:28.you needed to repatriate 50 You have to it all ratified by 27
:18:29. > :18:33.other countries as well as our own. That's just not possible,
:18:34. > :18:36.Prime Minister, is it? It's challenging, but I
:18:37. > :18:38.think it is possible. The reason I think it is
:18:39. > :18:40.possible is this, Andrew. First of all, I think
:18:41. > :18:48.it's possible because, with goodwill on both sides,
:18:49. > :18:51.I think both sides recognise that it's in our interests to make sure
:18:52. > :18:54.that we get these arrangements in place so that when we leave we've
:18:55. > :18:57.got that trade arrangement. There maybe be a period
:18:58. > :19:01.of implementation after the point of withdrawal, but we know
:19:02. > :19:03.what that arrangement is, so everybody is certain
:19:04. > :19:05.about where the future lies. So it's in both side's
:19:06. > :19:08.interests to do this, but the other reason why I think
:19:09. > :19:11.it's possible is because of course we're not a third country
:19:12. > :19:14.in the sense of a country that's never been part of
:19:15. > :19:15.the European Union. We are not suddenly coming knocking
:19:16. > :19:18.at the door saying we want all of these things,
:19:19. > :19:21.we have been part of the EU. We have been operating
:19:22. > :19:23.on the same basis with them. So I think that puts us
:19:24. > :19:25.in a different position for the future and makes it easier
:19:26. > :19:28.for us to negotiate these arrangements than it
:19:29. > :19:34.would if we were coming Do you rule out a transitional
:19:35. > :19:37.period where some things, even after we leave, still remain to be
:19:38. > :19:41.resolved? What I want is, by the end of the two years, everybody to know
:19:42. > :19:46.what the withdrawal agreement is and what the future relationship is.
:19:47. > :19:50.That deep - what I have called today - a deep and special partnership
:19:51. > :19:53.with the EU. We are part of Europe. We want to work and co-operate with
:19:54. > :19:56.them. I want that agreed by the end of the two years. I think that's
:19:57. > :20:00.possible. It may be that there have to be a period of implementation
:20:01. > :20:03.there after as people adjust. As businesses adjust. As governments
:20:04. > :20:07.adjust to whatever the new arrangements are. If there is a
:20:08. > :20:10.transitional period, or an implementation period, would that
:20:11. > :20:13.still involve the free movement of people and being under the
:20:14. > :20:17.jurisdiction of the European Court or do both these things have to end
:20:18. > :20:22.in two years' time? We want to make sure that we are ending - that we
:20:23. > :20:25.are ending the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and that
:20:26. > :20:29.we are able to control movement of people coming from the European
:20:30. > :20:34.Union. In two years? We want to have the agreements done in two years.
:20:35. > :20:38.There may, as I say may be a period from which we are implementing those
:20:39. > :20:42.arrangements. A simple example, you know, if there are different visa
:20:43. > :20:45.arrangements that need to be put in place. The Government here and
:20:46. > :20:49.governments elsewhere will have to have their systems working so that
:20:50. > :20:52.those can operate. There may be a period where we have to implement
:20:53. > :20:56.the decision that is have been taken. You said in the event of no
:20:57. > :21:01.deal, we may have to change Britain's economic model. What does
:21:02. > :21:05.that mean? Well, on the no deal, I've said that no deal, first of
:21:06. > :21:09.all, I think would be better than a bad deal. We don't want to see a bad
:21:10. > :21:15.deal. I say that because I think there are some people in Europe who
:21:16. > :21:19.talk about punishing the UK and I don't want to sign up to an
:21:20. > :21:23.agreement which is based on that. Then there are others here who
:21:24. > :21:26.perhaps feel thatle we should be so keen to get an agreement that we
:21:27. > :21:31.might sign up to things that the British people rejected when they
:21:32. > :21:35.voted to leave the European Union. What does our different economic
:21:36. > :21:39.model mean, that was my question? What I've said in the letter today,
:21:40. > :21:46.if we don't get a deal, then we would go on to what are called these
:21:47. > :21:49.WTO, the world trade organisation arrangements for trading. What, in
:21:50. > :21:53.thosishing ises I've made clear in the letter that's not what we should
:21:54. > :21:57.want. It's not in either of our interests - I will come to the point
:21:58. > :22:00.about the economic model. It's not in in either side's interests, I
:22:01. > :22:05.think, to have those arrangements. It's not just about us, it's about
:22:06. > :22:08.the EU as well. Of course, what ever comes out, we want to ensure we
:22:09. > :22:12.continue to have a competitive economy. That's what we would be
:22:13. > :22:18.looking at. What does a different economic model mean? I ask for a
:22:19. > :22:21.third time. What does it mean? We will take decisions at the time as
:22:22. > :22:25.to what we felt was necessary to keep our economy competitive and
:22:26. > :22:27.keep jobs here in the United Kingdom and putting in place the
:22:28. > :22:31.arrangements for business that kept those jobs and be so forth. Don't
:22:32. > :22:36.you do that anyway? We do work to do that, but - I'm not sure what a new
:22:37. > :22:41.economic poddel is. Labour say it is's a tax haven? Labour set up all
:22:42. > :22:46.sort of straw men about what this might be in the future. What it's
:22:47. > :22:50.about is making sure that jobs stay here in the UK and new jobs are are
:22:51. > :22:53.created in the UK. It's aboutic making sure we have the economy that
:22:54. > :22:56.enables people to have those high paid, high skilled jobs and that
:22:57. > :23:00.we're ensuring that young people here have got those skills for the
:23:01. > :23:06.future. I understand. Let me ask you one rather important question. If we
:23:07. > :23:11.don't get a deal, will that jeopardise our existing co-operation
:23:12. > :23:14.against crime and terrorism with our European partners? If there is no
:23:15. > :23:20.deal, will that weaken it? Well, if I can accept vat rate those two out.
:23:21. > :23:23.On some of the co-operation we have with them on terrorism, that takes
:23:24. > :23:26.place outside the European Union and outside the structures of the
:23:27. > :23:29.European Union. But if we don't get a deal on the sort of security
:23:30. > :23:33.arrangements, the sort of criminal justice things I was talking about
:23:34. > :23:37.earlier, the exchange of information at our borders, then I think that
:23:38. > :23:41.would - that is one of the reasons why I think we should aim not to be
:23:42. > :23:43.in the position of getting no deal, but in the position of getting a
:23:44. > :23:48.good deal because I think that co-operation is important to us. We
:23:49. > :23:51.are leaving the customs union, Ireland is not. Do you accept that
:23:52. > :23:57.must mean checks on the Irish border? We are very clear, both I,
:23:58. > :24:01.eye' talked to the government in the Republic, the Taoiseach about this,
:24:02. > :24:05.we are clear we don't want to see a return to the borders of the past.
:24:06. > :24:07.We are, woing very closely with the Irish government about the
:24:08. > :24:11.arrangements that can be put in place to ensure a frictionless
:24:12. > :24:14.border in a practical sense, a frictionless border for goods and
:24:15. > :24:19.services and people travelling between Northern Ireland and the
:24:20. > :24:22.Republic. The leave campaign promised a Brexit end dividend of
:24:23. > :24:29.?350 million a week. Much of which they said could be spent on the NHS.
:24:30. > :24:33.How big do you think the Brexit dividend be should the lion share go
:24:34. > :24:37.to the NHS? What I think is what people want is for, what they voted
:24:38. > :24:42.for, is for the UK to be able to decide how it spend its budget. For
:24:43. > :24:45.us not to be spending significant amounts of money every year paying
:24:46. > :24:48.into the European Union and Brussels. When we leave we will have
:24:49. > :24:53.control of that money. We will decide how we spend that money. How
:24:54. > :24:57.big will the Brexit - That is what people want to see. Will it be
:24:58. > :25:01.anything like ?350 million a week? As part of the negotiations we will
:25:02. > :25:06.be ensuring we are not paying the significant sums in in the future.
:25:07. > :25:11.We will then be able to see what the size of thatdy veried individual end
:25:12. > :25:14.will be and determine how that money it spent. Should it go to the NHS?
:25:15. > :25:17.There are lots of things we should think about. It was the NHS on the
:25:18. > :25:24.side of the bus during the referendum? During the referendum
:25:25. > :25:27.there were points made, often very passionately, on both sides of the
:25:28. > :25:30.argument. We are beyond the referendum. We are at the point
:25:31. > :25:37.where we are putting this into practice. Where we are starting what
:25:38. > :25:40.will be complex, challenging, but, I think, achievable negotiations. I'm
:25:41. > :25:44.optimistic about what we can achieve in the future. What people voted for
:25:45. > :25:48.is for us to have control. That is what we'll have. You have rejected
:25:49. > :25:51.the demands of Scotland's First Minister for a second independence
:25:52. > :25:56.referendum. You say now is not the time. What about when you have done
:25:57. > :25:59.the Brexit deal? When we know what the nature of Brexit is? Will you
:26:00. > :26:03.rule out a second Scottish referendum? Well, the comments that
:26:04. > :26:07.I'm getting from the Scottish Government and from the SNP in
:26:08. > :26:10.Parliament at the moment are that they want a confirmation now they
:26:11. > :26:14.are going to have a second independence referendum. What I'm
:26:15. > :26:17.saying is, I think now is not the time for a second independence
:26:18. > :26:25.referendum. I understand that? Now is not the time to be focussing on a
:26:26. > :26:29.second referendum - What about when the Brexit deal is done. They can
:26:30. > :26:33.see what it looks like. They voted to stay in the EU. People will argue
:26:34. > :26:38.they should have a second decision. Are you against it in principle? If
:26:39. > :26:41.I can explain why I say now is not the time. I think it's relevant to
:26:42. > :26:46.the wider question. It's not the time to focus on a second
:26:47. > :26:49.independence referendum or to be looking at that second independence
:26:50. > :26:54.referendum because, for two reasons, now is the time when we need to pull
:26:55. > :26:57.together as a United Kingdom. We need to be talking about how we can
:26:58. > :27:00.work together to get the best possible deal for everybody across
:27:01. > :27:04.the whole of the United Kingdom. I understand that? Focussing on an
:27:05. > :27:08.independence referendum isn't abouting doing that. Do you rule it
:27:09. > :27:11.out? That's why it's important for us to ensure that we do focus on the
:27:12. > :27:16.future. Do you rule it out in principle? Also, I think it's
:27:17. > :27:20.important that we recognise - well, I think, Andrew, the question isn't
:27:21. > :27:24.whether there could be a second independence referendum it's whether
:27:25. > :27:28.there should be. Should there? The people of Scotland voted in 2014.
:27:29. > :27:33.They voted to stay part of the United Kingdom. The SNP themselves
:27:34. > :27:34.described it as a once in a generation, indeed a
:27:35. > :27:39.once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. The people
:27:40. > :27:43.gave their message. I think just as we're respecting the referendum that
:27:44. > :27:47.took place here last year on EU membership, so we should all respect
:27:48. > :27:50.the 2014 Scotland referendum. During the referendum you said, "I believe
:27:51. > :28:04.it's clearly in our national interest to remain a member of the
:28:05. > :28:10.EU. " Now you you say Brexit will "great a better Britain"? I said I
:28:11. > :28:14.didn't think the sky would fall in if we left the European Union. It
:28:15. > :28:19.hasn't. It's the mother of all U turns? My job, I have been put in a
:28:20. > :28:25.position as trm Prime Minister, I believe, to respect the wishes of
:28:26. > :28:29.the people of the United Kingdom in that elf are ref. I believe it's my
:28:30. > :28:33.job to deliver the best possible few fur for the UK. It's not just about
:28:34. > :28:36.Brexit, it's about my plan for Britain. A more outward looking
:28:37. > :28:41.Britain, a stronger economy, a fairer society and a more united
:28:42. > :28:45.nation. It's taking that forward which is about building a brighter
:28:46. > :28:49.future for everybody in the UK. If it is for the will of the British
:28:50. > :28:53.people, when you do the deal, when it's clear the terms of which we
:28:54. > :28:57.will leave the EU, why would you not take that to the country either in a
:28:58. > :29:01.second referendum or go to the country in a general election and
:29:02. > :29:05.get the people to vote for the deal that you doings? Why not? What I've
:29:06. > :29:09.said is when we have a deal there will be a vote in the UK parnlt.
:29:10. > :29:13.There will be votes in parliaments across Europe there will need to be
:29:14. > :29:17.a ratification process. I believe that's the right way to do it. To
:29:18. > :29:22.say to the UK Parliament - this is your opportunity to vote for this
:29:23. > :29:26.deal. You will not take to the country? I'm confident we will get a
:29:27. > :29:28.deal that is going to be good for the British people. The British
:29:29. > :29:32.people have basically said to - go on and get on with it. We want to
:29:33. > :29:35.leave the EU. Go out there, get the deal, get on with it. That's what
:29:36. > :29:42.we're going to do. Prime Minister, thank you. Thank you.
:29:43. > :29:47.That was me speaking earlier to the Prime Minister, Theresa May, on the
:29:48. > :29:51.day that she triggered Article 50, beginning the formal negotiations
:29:52. > :29:55.that will lead to Britain's departure from the European Union in
:29:56. > :29:59.two years' time. For the next half-hour, and going to
:30:00. > :30:03.be talking to a number of the party leaders about what they want to see
:30:04. > :30:07.from the negotiations, and how they see Britain after Brexit. I'm joined
:30:08. > :30:10.now by the Leader of the Opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, welcome to the
:30:11. > :30:15.programme. Your Shadow Chancellor has said Brexit offers, quote, an
:30:16. > :30:19.enormous opportunities. What are these opportunities? Well, the
:30:20. > :30:24.opportunities are the opportunities that we all want to take, which is
:30:25. > :30:28.an investment led economy, higher wages, good quality manufacturing
:30:29. > :30:32.industry, and a good trading relationship with Europe, because
:30:33. > :30:35.after all approximately half of all our trade, both manufacturing and
:30:36. > :30:39.services, is with the European Union at the present time. Many of our
:30:40. > :30:44.industries, as you know, closely interlinked with production across
:30:45. > :30:48.the continent. So don't we have these opportunities at the moment? I
:30:49. > :30:53.don't understand how leaving the EU improves these opportunities.
:30:54. > :30:57.The changes would be that the European Union would not be able to
:30:58. > :31:02.influence an economic model, one of my concern is that I expressed about
:31:03. > :31:05.the form of the European Union, the way it wanted to prevent government
:31:06. > :31:10.intervening to protect industries, and I think government should
:31:11. > :31:14.intervene to protect industries. But actually, the reality is that we are
:31:15. > :31:18.leaving the European Union, so let's look to the relationship with Europe
:31:19. > :31:21.in the future and the way in which the Government is going to pursue
:31:22. > :31:28.those negotiations. So more state intervention after Brexit if there
:31:29. > :31:30.was a Labour government, more state intervention in industry? I have
:31:31. > :31:35.always said this, because I think we do need to have an investment led
:31:36. > :31:39.economy. We do less investment than most countries in the OECD and
:31:40. > :31:42.across the European Union. We need to invest in hi-tech manufacturing
:31:43. > :31:47.industries and sustainable industries and jobs. We have great
:31:48. > :31:52.levels of inequality in Britain, amongst the greatest in Europe, and
:31:53. > :31:57.the prime Minster today is talking about the possibility of trading
:31:58. > :32:02.under WTO rules, which would be pretty catastrophic for most of our
:32:03. > :32:06.industries. You have set at six tests for Theresa May in the
:32:07. > :32:10.negotiating process, and one is the exact same benefits as we currently
:32:11. > :32:15.enjoy as members of the single market. As I said to her, I say to
:32:16. > :32:20.you, you know that is Mission: Impossible. David Davis said this in
:32:21. > :32:25.a house on the 24th of January. Doesn't make it right! He says many
:32:26. > :32:29.things. Why do you make it one of your tests? It is a test on the
:32:30. > :32:33.Government, they said they would achieve it, so how do you achieve
:32:34. > :32:37.it? You achieve it by the basis upon which you trade within the European
:32:38. > :32:43.market, and I give you an example, I mentioned industry. The car
:32:44. > :32:49.industry, 1.5 million engines made by Ford, they have to go to Europe
:32:50. > :32:52.to be put into cars. The same with Airbus, Rolls-Royce, lots of
:32:53. > :32:56.companies. There is a huge integration. That integration has to
:32:57. > :33:01.continue, otherwise it is very hard to see how those big industries will
:33:02. > :33:04.remain in Britain. Do you believe we should remain members of the single
:33:05. > :33:08.market? I don't think we can be members of the single market if we
:33:09. > :33:16.are not members of the European Union, so the issue is access. It is
:33:17. > :33:18.an agreement which would be a trade deal with Europe. So on that, your
:33:19. > :33:21.policy is the same as the Government's? We would fight to have
:33:22. > :33:25.that trade relationship, and we would not be threatening, which is
:33:26. > :33:29.what the Prime Minister was doing in our interview, saying, if we have to
:33:30. > :33:33.trade under WTO rules, we might adopt our own economic model, which
:33:34. > :33:42.can only lead to lower levels of taxation and all the problems that
:33:43. > :33:45.come with that. Corporatist -- corporate taxation, that is. Should
:33:46. > :33:49.we remain members of the customs union? The customs union is the
:33:50. > :33:54.trade arrangement for the rest of the world. If we remain members of
:33:55. > :33:58.the customs union, we have the same trading relationships with the rest
:33:59. > :34:03.of the world, fixed agreement on tariffs and two as the EU, so should
:34:04. > :34:07.we remain a member? I suspect we're not going to be allowed to remain a
:34:08. > :34:11.member, so we will have to develop our own trade policies with the rest
:34:12. > :34:14.of the world, and this is where it becomes very complicated, because if
:34:15. > :34:18.we cannot trade with the rest of the world and the current agreements and
:34:19. > :34:22.we have to develop new trade arrangements, it becomes very
:34:23. > :34:26.complicated. On the customs union, the broad principle of the policy is
:34:27. > :34:32.the same as the Government. Norway, for example, is not a member of the
:34:33. > :34:40.EU but follows the customs union rules. Norway is in the single
:34:41. > :34:46.market. You agree that we cannot be in the customs union even if we want
:34:47. > :34:49.to be. You say we should honour our obligations, the so-called divorce
:34:50. > :34:53.settlement, would that come anywhere near the ?50 billion that the EU is
:34:54. > :34:56.talking about? I'm not really sure where this figure comes from. There
:34:57. > :35:03.are obviously issues about ongoing commitments to staff... Which the
:35:04. > :35:06.Prime Minister talked about, but that is a different matter. The
:35:07. > :35:11.other way around, the agreements we have made with the European Union
:35:12. > :35:15.for, for example, capital investment programmes on railways in the
:35:16. > :35:22.south-west, Southeast Wales, all those agreements, we either have to
:35:23. > :35:26.pick them up and fund them ourselves or pay the European Union. I don't
:35:27. > :35:32.know where this figure comes from. Can you imagine it being close to 50
:35:33. > :35:38.billion? No, I couldn't. If the Prime Minister does not meet all six
:35:39. > :35:42.of your tests, will aide vote against the final deal? Keir Starmer
:35:43. > :35:47.has made our position very clear in a House on Monday, we set down those
:35:48. > :35:50.points about protection of jobs, protection of conditions, trade
:35:51. > :35:55.arrangements with the European Union. Obviously, if those are not
:35:56. > :35:59.met, we will not supported. And you would vote against it even if the
:36:00. > :36:04.consequence of that would mean that we would crash out, in your words,
:36:05. > :36:10.on WTO rules? This is where the pressure from the Labour Party and
:36:11. > :36:14.the opposition to the Government will ensure two things - one is that
:36:15. > :36:19.there is a final vote, because the Government did not want that, and
:36:20. > :36:23.secondly that there is regular reporting to Parliament. If there is
:36:24. > :36:27.not likely to be an agreement, then surely the obvious thing to do from
:36:28. > :36:32.both the point of view of the 27 other countries, the commission,
:36:33. > :36:37.Parliament and us is to continue those negotiations by an extension.
:36:38. > :36:42.Within Article 50, there is provision to continue those
:36:43. > :36:46.negotiations. But you would need all 27 to agree. This is true, and you
:36:47. > :36:50.might have to argue very strongly with them, but I have done my best
:36:51. > :36:55.to reach out to colleagues in Socialist parties in everyone of the
:36:56. > :37:00.27 in the States to do two things - help us reach a sensible agreement
:37:01. > :37:03.with Europe, but also to protect British nationals living in their
:37:04. > :37:07.country. Not many of your socialist colleagues are in Govan and in
:37:08. > :37:14.Europe. Some art, and they are still a factor in politics, still a factor
:37:15. > :37:18.in government. Would you support a second referendum on the outcome of
:37:19. > :37:23.negotiations? No, at the moment, we have made a decision in this
:37:24. > :37:29.referendum, and I think it has been put to politicians to deal with the
:37:30. > :37:33.issue, and we campaigned for a Remain vote, it was not successful,
:37:34. > :37:35.the country voted to leave, we respect the result of the
:37:36. > :37:39.referendum, and we want to be able to speak for the entire country in
:37:40. > :37:43.holding the Government to account. People might have voted to leave the
:37:44. > :37:47.European Union, but they didn't vote themselves out of a job at the same
:37:48. > :37:53.time. Both you and the Prime Minister were Remainers, and Mrs May
:37:54. > :37:57.now sounds like an enthusiasm for Brexit. You said before the
:37:58. > :38:03.referendum that you were seven out of ten in staying in the EU. How
:38:04. > :38:08.much are you out of ten on leaving? Well, we are leaving. Ten out of
:38:09. > :38:12.ten? Well, there isn't a debate, we are leaving. Are you becoming
:38:13. > :38:17.enthusiastic like her? Not enthusiastic like her. Brexit is
:38:18. > :38:21.happening, there is no debate about it, it is a question of how we leave
:38:22. > :38:25.and the terms by which we leave, and the relationship we have with Europe
:38:26. > :38:29.in the future. My concern in the referendum was that I wanted to see,
:38:30. > :38:33.as I said to one of your earlier question is, a reformed European
:38:34. > :38:38.Union. I wanted much more of a social Europe, much more equality
:38:39. > :38:42.across the continent, because that is a problem. But there are also
:38:43. > :38:47.huge issues facing this country on equality, poverty and injustice
:38:48. > :38:50.which we have to face. What controls, because if and when we
:38:51. > :38:55.leave, or when we leave, we will have to devise a number of policies
:38:56. > :39:00.which we haven't had to as members - one of them is on immigration from
:39:01. > :39:04.the European Union. At the moment, there is free movement because that
:39:05. > :39:08.is a condition of membership of the EU and the single market. What
:39:09. > :39:11.controls would you place on migration from the EU post-Brexit?
:39:12. > :39:16.Well, it depends what the trade deal is, quite clearly, and what
:39:17. > :39:19.incidences but there, but Britain has benefited greatly from European
:39:20. > :39:27.workers here, our health service relies on them, many of our hi-tech
:39:28. > :39:30.industries do, and indeed British workers across Europe. So there are
:39:31. > :39:33.always going to be movements across the borders, and I think we have to
:39:34. > :39:38.accept that. But would you put any controls on it? What I would do is
:39:39. > :39:43.end the process of agencies recruiting people to come to this
:39:44. > :39:47.country and undercard construction workers, and that people in call
:39:48. > :39:52.centres and factories, and make sure there is local advertising of jobs
:39:53. > :39:57.and proper wages and conditions, rather than what goes on. But let's
:39:58. > :40:00.be serious about this, our country is an industrial country, as well as
:40:01. > :40:08.having service industries, agriculture. All of those, in part,
:40:09. > :40:13.need European workers, as indeed to British workers across Europe. Would
:40:14. > :40:18.you have any controls on EU migration to the UK? Well, clearly,
:40:19. > :40:22.and any future arrangements, there will have to be an agreement on
:40:23. > :40:26.British people going to work in Europe, and European people coming
:40:27. > :40:32.to work in Britain, but we always go to have a close relationship because
:40:33. > :40:36.everybody, me absolutely, is signed up to the concept that all EU
:40:37. > :40:40.nationals currently resident here must have a permanent right of
:40:41. > :40:44.residency. They have families, and there is always going to be
:40:45. > :40:48.movement. I understand that, and I asked the Prime Minister about that,
:40:49. > :40:51.but I want to be clear - with the movement of people, when we leave
:40:52. > :40:56.the EU, would it be any different from where it is now? I suspect it
:40:57. > :41:03.will probably be different, because both sides would have a debate about
:41:04. > :41:07.that, but actually we are two years away from this disease in. You don't
:41:08. > :41:13.have a policy? We will be consulting on this, working out a policy
:41:14. > :41:18.proposal, and the issue is one of the terms of trade with Europe and
:41:19. > :41:22.protection of EU nationals here and British nationals living in other
:41:23. > :41:29.parts of Europe. Jorg Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott, she says
:41:30. > :41:35.free movement is a worker's right. You wouldn't want to take that away,
:41:36. > :41:39.would you? She supports the principle that workers should be
:41:40. > :41:43.able to sit the best job they can, and that is what goes on at the
:41:44. > :41:47.present time. My point, and I am sure she would agree if she were on
:41:48. > :41:52.this programme, in the way in which groups of workers, particularly from
:41:53. > :41:56.two or three European countries have been grotesquely exploited in this
:41:57. > :42:01.country. That is a shame on us and terrible for them. Scotland voted to
:42:02. > :42:04.remain in the EU at the referendum, the Scottish Government was elected
:42:05. > :42:08.with a second referendum in its manifesto, the Scottish Parliament
:42:09. > :42:13.as voted for one this very week - would you deny these got a second
:42:14. > :42:16.referendum? I don't think the Westminster Parliament should block
:42:17. > :42:20.a referendum once it has been proposed by the Scottish Parliament.
:42:21. > :42:23.I am not in favour of a second referendum, and I think the economic
:42:24. > :42:28.arguments in Scotland are very serious and very strong. There is a
:42:29. > :42:32.15 billion gap between Scottish taxation income and the requirements
:42:33. > :42:36.of Scottish public services, and so I have made that adamant in
:42:37. > :42:41.Scotland, at the Scottish Labour Party conference and other places.
:42:42. > :42:46.-- that argument. So you would grant the First Minister a referendum?
:42:47. > :42:51.Parliament has made reference to it, has agreed it wants to do it, I
:42:52. > :42:55.don't support that, but I think under devolution, we agreed
:42:56. > :42:58.devolution in 1997. I don't think Westminster should block it, but I
:42:59. > :43:03.think they should be a serious discussion about the timing of it,
:43:04. > :43:07.because if the referendum occurs during the Brexit negotiations, it
:43:08. > :43:12.becomes a bit complicated. I understand that, but I am confused.
:43:13. > :43:22.Would you back Nicola Sturgeon's timetable, from the back 18-19 or
:43:23. > :43:26.not? It should not take place until after the Brexit negotiations have
:43:27. > :43:30.been completed. Like Scotland, Northern Ireland voted to remain.
:43:31. > :43:35.You have been a huge supporter of a united Ireland in the past, is it
:43:36. > :43:40.time for a referendum on that? I think we have to recognise that
:43:41. > :43:44.there is going to be an enormous complication about Northern Ireland,
:43:45. > :43:48.the border with the Republic after the exit from the European Union.
:43:49. > :43:52.No-one wants a hard border, everybody wants to support the
:43:53. > :43:55.Belfast agreement, that is built into the whole European Union
:43:56. > :43:59.arrangements, and so there is going to have to be an agreement on
:44:00. > :44:04.movement of people and goods across the border between the Republic and
:44:05. > :44:09.the six counties. Would you welcome that referendum? It is up to the
:44:10. > :44:13.people of Northern Ireland. If the assembly wants to have one, they
:44:14. > :44:18.should be allowed to, but the important thing now is to beat an
:44:19. > :44:21.agreement to ensure that the good relationship between the six
:44:22. > :44:25.counties and the Republic continues... And that the border
:44:26. > :44:28.stays open? Yes, so that people can freely move across it. Jeremy
:44:29. > :44:34.Corbyn, thank you. What do some of the other political
:44:35. > :44:39.parties in England want to see from the Brexit negotiations? The Liberal
:44:40. > :44:44.Democrats say Britain's best chance of to succeed is within the EU. They
:44:45. > :44:48.support a second referendum at the end of the negotiating process
:44:49. > :44:51.because they argue people voted for departure, but not for a
:44:52. > :44:56.destination. Think are campaigning for Britain to remain a member of
:44:57. > :44:59.the single market. Ukip says the party will hold the Government's
:45:00. > :45:04.feet to the fire over Brexit. They have laid out six tests for the deal
:45:05. > :45:09.between the UK and the EU to ensure that leave means leave. These
:45:10. > :45:15.include, no divorce payment with the EU. A significant fall in net
:45:16. > :45:19.migration and the Brexit deal finalised by 2019. The Green Party
:45:20. > :45:23.position is to campaign against what they call an extreme Brexit. They
:45:24. > :45:28.say they will oppose any measures taking to turn the UK into a tax
:45:29. > :45:32.haven or take away the rights of UK and EU contribute accidents. They
:45:33. > :45:39.support a second referendum on the terms of the deal of Britain's
:45:40. > :45:45.future relationship with the EU. I'm joined by the Liberal Democrat
:45:46. > :45:49.leader, the Ukip leader and the co leader of the Green Party. Welcome
:45:50. > :45:53.to you all. Are you out to reverse the decision this country took on
:45:54. > :45:58.June 23rd? No, I don't want a rerun of the referendum we had last June.
:45:59. > :46:01.It was narrow there. Was a majority for Britain leaving the European
:46:02. > :46:05.Union. Thats with a vote on departure not destination. As the
:46:06. > :46:09.detail of the deal becomes more clear. Theresa May doesn't know what
:46:10. > :46:13.that deal is, how can any of us be expected to know. Fair enough. At
:46:14. > :46:16.the end, this deal will be signed off and agreed by politicians or it
:46:17. > :46:20.should be signed off by the people. The Liberal Democrats have the view
:46:21. > :46:23.that the people should have the final say on the destination which,
:46:24. > :46:27.at the moment, is unclear. You think when the Government, if the
:46:28. > :46:31.Government comes to a deal on our terms of Brexit, that should be put
:46:32. > :46:36.to the people in a second referendum? Yeah. I mean, the first
:46:37. > :46:40.referendum on the deal. No-one had sight of that deal. You know what I
:46:41. > :46:44.mean? I do. It's of real significance. At the moment we don't
:46:45. > :46:47.know what it will look like. We have various things from the Prime
:46:48. > :46:49.Minister, the extent to which immigration will be controlled, the
:46:50. > :46:52.extent to which we will have a relationship with the single market.
:46:53. > :46:56.All of those things the Liberal Democrats believe we should fight to
:46:57. > :47:01.be members of the single market. They are up for grabs we are
:47:02. > :47:04.expected to allow a stitch-up between civil servants between
:47:05. > :47:06.politicians in Whitehall toll decide our future. Liberal Democrats think
:47:07. > :47:10.the people should have the final say. If we don't like what the
:47:11. > :47:13.Government comes back with we should be allowed to remain in the European
:47:14. > :47:17.Union. If the Prime Minister succeeded you will have read her
:47:18. > :47:22.letter to the EU. If she succeeded in all the aims she sets out in
:47:23. > :47:26.that, come the final deal, would you support that? Extremely unlikely. I
:47:27. > :47:34.can't imagine there is deal. Would you? On offer for the you United
:47:35. > :47:38.Kingdom that is on often now. That is my question. The weakness of her
:47:39. > :47:41.position is shown in the fact that the big thing she should be seek
:47:42. > :47:46.something membership of the single market. How can you remain members
:47:47. > :47:50.of the single market and not be subject to free movement, rules and
:47:51. > :47:54.the jurisdiction of the ECJ, in other words, you are member of the
:47:55. > :47:57.EU? Norway and Switzerland are members of the single market and not
:47:58. > :48:02.members of the European Union. They are subject to the jurisdiction by
:48:03. > :48:06.one court removed in the ECJ? That is certainly the case. I would
:48:07. > :48:09.defend freedom of movement. If you are listening to anything coming out
:48:10. > :48:12.of the capitals of the other European Union countries at the
:48:13. > :48:15.moment, you will be hearing governments which are prepared to
:48:16. > :48:19.compromise on that issue. If Theresa May really wanted to fight for what
:48:20. > :48:24.was in Britain's interest, we stay in the single market, if she had the
:48:25. > :48:30.courage of those convictions she may get what she wanted. She is not
:48:31. > :48:34.fighting that battle at all. What did the Prime Minister say today
:48:35. > :48:40.with which you disagree? Very little, actually. I think that she's
:48:41. > :48:43.talking the talk, but then again Theresa May has been very good at
:48:44. > :48:47.this kind of thing. When it comes to walking the walk she generally
:48:48. > :48:51.fails. I found very little I disagree with the Prime Minister
:48:52. > :48:56.today. We don't really - you described yourself as the guard dog
:48:57. > :49:03.of Brexit. Yes. We don't need a guard dog with no MPs. You are a
:49:04. > :49:07.guard dog with no teeth? I'm not convinced the Prime Minister won't
:49:08. > :49:12.barter things away. The fishing industry may go first and foremost.
:49:13. > :49:14.As I say, in terms of not having an MP any more because Douglas Carswell
:49:15. > :49:18.left on Saturday, it doesn't really matter. If you think, Andrew, we
:49:19. > :49:20.forced the then Prime Minister, David Cameron, into giving a
:49:21. > :49:24.referendum that he never wanted to give when we had no representation
:49:25. > :49:28.in the House of Commons. You won, job done? We won. As I say there is
:49:29. > :49:33.a two year process now. We have got to be there. We have got to be
:49:34. > :49:37.electorally strong and ensure the Prime Minister doesn't barter things
:49:38. > :49:42.away. The Green Parties talks about an extreme Brexit. Tim Farron talks
:49:43. > :49:49.about hard you talk about extreme? Fundamental list Brexit. Out doing
:49:50. > :49:54.each other. You had the Prime Minister today and you heard the
:49:55. > :49:57.response from Donald Tusk the head of the EU council. What was extreme
:49:58. > :50:02.about am any of that? Look at what is on offer. An end to freedom of
:50:03. > :50:06.movement. I'm passionate about freedom of movement I will defend it
:50:07. > :50:10.to my dying day. My children will benefit from. It I enjoyed it, my
:50:11. > :50:15.children won't get it. It's not extreme to be against it. Not just
:50:16. > :50:19.to stop people coming they voted against free movement. That was not
:50:20. > :50:23.on offer in the referendum. Everybody knew that was important.
:50:24. > :50:26.There were plenty - some people in the Conservative Party that were on
:50:27. > :50:32.the leave side say it wouldn't be an end to freedom of movement. Really?
:50:33. > :50:36.Tim highlighted Uncontrolled freedom of movement? Absolutely, yes. You
:50:37. > :50:38.thought people voted to leave, but still knew that even leaving
:50:39. > :50:43.wouldn't mean the end of uncontrolled - Yes if you have
:50:44. > :50:47.access to the single market, you would still have freedom of
:50:48. > :50:51.movement. You said it your eself, Andrew. Actually, I didn't. Let me
:50:52. > :50:56.come back to Tim Farron. The Prime Minister says Brexit will build a
:50:57. > :51:01.better Britain. That is her aim. The President of the European Commission
:51:02. > :51:06.said Britain will be weaker once he said we leaves the "beautiful EU"
:51:07. > :51:09.are you with Mr Juncker or Mrs May? I take the view Britain will be
:51:10. > :51:13.better if it's part of that family of nations we have been in for the
:51:14. > :51:16.last 40 odd years and being in the European Union is something that I'm
:51:17. > :51:21.passionately in favour of. The fact we lost the referendum means I
:51:22. > :51:24.respect the outcome, but it doesn't mean I've changed my view. Do you
:51:25. > :51:28.respect the outcome though? If you saw a chance to review it you would?
:51:29. > :51:34.Only by democratic means. Of course. Not saying you are going to mount a
:51:35. > :51:38.coup? I'm glad that particular accusations is off the table.
:51:39. > :51:40.Pleased to be exonerated. Not the courts, not Parliament, the British
:51:41. > :51:46.people should have the right to look at the deal, say we like it, in
:51:47. > :51:50.which case I will say, we're out. Or that we actually have the chance to
:51:51. > :51:53.remain in the EU. The whole point about the referendum is people
:51:54. > :51:56.getting back control and people being part of a process that began
:51:57. > :52:01.with the referendum. It didn't just stop there. Suddenly the 48% had to
:52:02. > :52:06.suck it up and the 52% get everything. 48% of people were
:52:07. > :52:11.voting for a different vision. If Theresa May is serious about uniting
:52:12. > :52:14.the country she should be listening to these people and taking them with
:52:15. > :52:18.her and not having this extreme version of Brexit. If we committed
:52:19. > :52:22.to another referendum at the end on the deal, I can guarantee to you now
:52:23. > :52:26.that the European Union would ensure we got the worst deal possible to
:52:27. > :52:35.ensure that we voted to stay in and reject it. I think Is there Let Tim
:52:36. > :52:39.Farron to answer that? It's a complex situation that we have found
:52:40. > :52:43.jours selves in. That is the doing of David Cameron who put this
:52:44. > :52:46.half-baked referendum to the public it was about departure and not
:52:47. > :52:51.destination. Whatever happens we are in a weak position. She has started
:52:52. > :52:56.giving away our membership of the single market. If she announced she
:52:57. > :53:01.was going to have a second referendum would she be in a weaker
:53:02. > :53:08.position because the EU would give us a bad deal so we voted against
:53:09. > :53:11.it? She is is saying we don't want to fight for our right to be in the
:53:12. > :53:18.single market. I don't see how democracy makes it worse. For the
:53:19. > :53:25.reason Paul Nuttall gave. He has the right to negotiate Brexit. She
:53:26. > :53:28.absolutely has. His spot is spot on. If she inherited as Prime Minister,
:53:29. > :53:33.as she did, a dead heat, a narrow win for leave you would seek a
:53:34. > :53:36.consensual Brexit. You would OK exit from the European Union, you would
:53:37. > :53:43.maintain your place in the single market. Paul Nuttall? Fair time.
:53:44. > :53:49.Tim, the point is, we are you can talking about the single market as
:53:50. > :53:53.if it's the be -all and end-all. It's a shrinking economic block we
:53:54. > :53:57.do less trade with the European Union year-on-year and more with the
:53:58. > :54:02.rest of the world. We can sign out on free trade deals with America,
:54:03. > :54:05.China, India - the EU signs them on our behalf. Once we leave we can
:54:06. > :54:09.take back our seat on the world trade organisation. Two parties
:54:10. > :54:14.talking about trade deals, they are talking about the single market. We
:54:15. > :54:17.are forgetting about people. Not one mention from any politician about
:54:18. > :54:22.climate change and the environment. Not one mention in Theresa May's
:54:23. > :54:27.speech about it. Nothing in Jeremy Corbyn's six tests. This is facing
:54:28. > :54:31.my children's future is climate change. You are the Green Party, I
:54:32. > :54:35.understand why you say that. You are in favour of a second referendum. A
:54:36. > :54:42.referendum on the deal, too, like the Liberal Democrats? We are. What
:54:43. > :54:46.would happen if people voted no? You put a pause on it and listen to the
:54:47. > :54:53.people. It's about listening to what the people are saying and take a
:54:54. > :55:00.long hard look at it. What would happen? Ask if you want it look at
:55:01. > :55:04.the terms of the deal -. If the EU say, you triggered Article 50, time
:55:05. > :55:09.is running out. That is why I'm bringing a court case through Dublin
:55:10. > :55:14.to the European Court right now - Another court case. Can we finish
:55:15. > :55:17.this point. We started on triggering Article 50 not knowing how to stop
:55:18. > :55:21.it, if there is a financial crisis and if things go wrong. How could we
:55:22. > :55:24.pause it? There are so many unknowns. The Prime Minister is
:55:25. > :55:29.taking us into it without knowing how she can push the ut abouton to
:55:30. > :55:33.stop it if she needed to. The good news - Here is the hill silver
:55:34. > :55:36.lining if you think triggering Article 50 is a sad occasion. The EU
:55:37. > :55:40.confirmed in writing that article 350 is revokable within the two
:55:41. > :55:44.years by the UK without anybody stopping us elsewhere in the EU.
:55:45. > :55:51.That's important. What Theresa May has done is jump out of the plain
:55:52. > :56:00.without a parachute, the EU chucked us a parachute. If the people don't
:56:01. > :56:04.like the deal they have the right to say, thanks, no thanks we will stay
:56:05. > :56:09.point. You need the Brexit talks to fail, don't you? We want to do as
:56:10. > :56:14.good as possible as a country - you Want them to fail? I don't. I want
:56:15. > :56:19.us to be close to Europe as humanly possible. If we believe the rhetoric
:56:20. > :56:22.Theresa May came out with today she apparently wants that to too we want
:56:23. > :56:27.a deal going forward that that allows us to stay close to Europe.
:56:28. > :56:31.You want them to fail. If they fail you can re-open the issue again and
:56:32. > :56:35.perhaps this time get your way. Win this time rather than losing last
:56:36. > :56:39.time. If they don't fail, you don't win? Don't get me wrong here, my
:56:40. > :56:44.sense is that the European Union and the Commission in particular has got
:56:45. > :56:48.lots wrong with it. I've spent most of my time in politics being someone
:56:49. > :56:52.who is sceptical about what the Commission does. The idea of Europe,
:56:53. > :56:56.the unity of 28 countries that were once at war on the other side of the
:56:57. > :57:01.iron curtain recently, that is massively important. Whether we
:57:02. > :57:03.succeed or fail in the negotiations the idea of Europe and European
:57:04. > :57:09.countries working together is a good thing. Given your attitude, for you,
:57:10. > :57:14.surely, no deal is the best deal for you? Do you know what, I will put
:57:15. > :57:19.country over party. I want the best deal for Britain. That means
:57:20. > :57:22.controlling our own borders by reducing immigration, doing away
:57:23. > :57:27.with freedom of movement. Control of our own waters. Not paying a
:57:28. > :57:32.membership fee any more. Able to sign our own free trade deals around
:57:33. > :57:36.the globe. 100% of our laws are made in this country, not Brussels. In a
:57:37. > :57:43.sense you are the other side of the Tim Farron coin. You need Brexit to
:57:44. > :57:48.be a betrayal to maintain electoral relevance? I think she will barter
:57:49. > :57:52.things away and want won't go through - I'm willing her to do so
:57:53. > :57:57.because I will put my country above party. Is she going to do so? I
:57:58. > :58:02.don't think she will, no. You don't? You think it will be a betrayal?
:58:03. > :58:06.Look at her record at Home Secretary, she is good at talking
:58:07. > :58:11.the talk. When it comes to you can walking the walk she generally
:58:12. > :58:16.fails. You wouldn't voluntarily jump out of the single market. I don't
:58:17. > :58:21.agree with him on tuition fees and on this. We need to see the big
:58:22. > :58:25.vision. I'm in favour of a big vision for Britain where we see
:58:26. > :58:30.where we are going. This is bigger than Brexit. This issue is about our
:58:31. > :58:33.future - On that bigger vision we are out of vision. Thank you for
:58:34. > :58:38.joining us tonight. I thank all my guests this evening on joining us on
:58:39. > :58:39.this day that saw Britain begin its official departure from the European
:58:40. > :59:08.Union. Good night. Hello, I'm Sarah Campbell
:59:09. > :59:10.with your 90 second update. It's been a momentous day
:59:11. > :59:12.in the history of Europe. A letter from the Prime Minister has
:59:13. > :59:15.been handed to Brussels to kick off divorce talks,
:59:16. > :59:18.starting the long and difficult