:00:33. > :00:39.So, good morning everybody, and really a warm welcome to you all for
:00:40. > :00:44.coming here today. What a day it is going to be, because the politicians
:00:45. > :00:49.on the stage will be grilled by you. These are the small business owners
:00:50. > :00:52.from across the economy, and also they include local shops and stores,
:00:53. > :00:59.the things we see when we walk up and down our high streets. Let me
:01:00. > :01:02.just introduce you to our panel. First of all, for the Conservatives,
:01:03. > :01:12.the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and Cabinet member vivid -- David
:01:13. > :01:15.Gauke. APPLAUSE
:01:16. > :01:20.Representing the Liberal Democrats today is the party's business
:01:21. > :01:26.spokesperson, Baroness Susan Kramer. APPLAUSE
:01:27. > :01:27.And the labour we have the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell.
:01:28. > :01:36.APPLAUSE In a few moments we will hear the
:01:37. > :01:39.initial pictures from the politicians, but first of all, let's
:01:40. > :01:46.just set the scene here today, because we want to hear briefly from
:01:47. > :01:47.the FSB and ACS and what they want to hear from the politicians this
:01:48. > :02:03.morning. Thank you, Maxine. It will come as
:02:04. > :02:06.no surprise to this audience that what we will be looking for from our
:02:07. > :02:11.speakers is their commitment to the small businesses of the UK and how
:02:12. > :02:15.small business friendly or pro-small business they are going to be. But
:02:16. > :02:19.there are three issues that I think we will focus on, that we want to
:02:20. > :02:28.hear commitment from the speakers. The first is tax. A lot of small
:02:29. > :02:31.businesses commit a lot to their businesses. They put their houses on
:02:32. > :02:36.the line, they risk a lot of stress and heartache in trying to reach
:02:37. > :02:42.their ambitions and their goals, and we don't want to see that dampened
:02:43. > :02:46.or damaged by a tax hike straight after this election. The second
:02:47. > :02:53.thing is an rates. Over the years, we have seen some real movement
:02:54. > :02:57.towards small businesses in trying to minimise the damage that high
:02:58. > :03:00.business rates cause. But we want to see fundamental change after the
:03:01. > :03:04.election, and we will be listening out for changes there. And the third
:03:05. > :03:11.thing is payments. Payments are extremely damaging to small
:03:12. > :03:15.businesses because bigger businesses see it as an opportunity to bully
:03:16. > :03:22.their suppliers. They are consistently poorly paid, and we see
:03:23. > :03:26.across when comparisons are made across Europe, we are consistently
:03:27. > :03:32.the worst performers. It is costing the average small business over
:03:33. > :03:37.?6,000 in poor payment, and we are seeing payment terms extended that
:03:38. > :03:41.mean that the economy is being damaged by something like 23 billion
:03:42. > :03:48.each year by this practice. This is something that needs to be urgently
:03:49. > :03:53.tackled. But in the end, we are a cross-party organisation, we are
:03:54. > :03:56.fiercely neutral, and we will work with whoever is victorious on
:03:57. > :04:05.Thursday. Thanks very much. APPLAUSE
:04:06. > :04:08.Thank you, just add to that, the local shops you see in every
:04:09. > :04:12.village, neighbourhood and estate up and down the country, the things
:04:13. > :04:18.that we want the Government to-do to support these everyday
:04:19. > :04:21.entrepreneurs, we are pleased with the commitment on business rates, we
:04:22. > :04:25.are moving towards recognition and understanding that we need a better
:04:26. > :04:29.and fairer business rate system. We need to see specifics on that. I
:04:30. > :04:32.want to hear about how the next Government will help businesses to
:04:33. > :04:39.deal with rising unemployment costs. I want to know what the next
:04:40. > :04:43.Government will do to reduce the burden of administration. Voters
:04:44. > :04:48.will give importance to these issues, they care about their
:04:49. > :04:51.communities and the businesses serving them, so thank you for
:04:52. > :04:56.taking part and I look forward to hear what you are saying.
:04:57. > :05:01.APPLAUSE Thank you very much to James and
:05:02. > :05:05.Martin. I am just going to run through a bit of housekeeping. We
:05:06. > :05:11.have cameras and photographers, they will move around to capture the
:05:12. > :05:15.event, so nothing is live, but these do your best to facilitate them on
:05:16. > :05:20.that. In a moment, each of our panel members is going to talk to 60
:05:21. > :05:26.seconds, nobody has any attention span these days, do they? 140
:05:27. > :05:29.characters in a tweet, 60 seconds should be more than enough to tell
:05:30. > :05:33.us everything you need to tell us, because the main point of this of
:05:34. > :05:40.course is to get your questions to the panel. We are going to talk
:05:41. > :05:44.around four topics today that have come with the concerns of both
:05:45. > :05:47.organisations, it will be a bit like question Time, we will have a
:05:48. > :05:52.question to the panellists and then open it up. I am quite ruthless, you
:05:53. > :05:56.need to know that. If you stand up and make statement, we don't want to
:05:57. > :05:59.hear that, we want to hear your question, not a statement, and
:06:00. > :06:03.please don't ramble on and stick to the topic, because the more
:06:04. > :06:07.questions we get through, the more information we will get. And just on
:06:08. > :06:11.that, none of the panellists know what any of the questions are in
:06:12. > :06:14.advance, so nothing has been set up, they are coming here and putting
:06:15. > :06:18.themselves up, and considering how close we are to be election, it is
:06:19. > :06:22.fantastic that you are here. Put your hand up, wait for the
:06:23. > :06:26.microphone, say who you are and who you represent and your business name
:06:27. > :06:30.if you want to, and then we will get on with that. And the thing that is
:06:31. > :06:33.not covered, we will try to get to it at the end, we are tight for
:06:34. > :06:39.time. We will finish at 12 o'clock on the dot. Let's just have a look
:06:40. > :06:43.at the board first of all. We are live tweeting, please do join in.
:06:44. > :06:48.Those people who can't be here will be able to watch the video later,
:06:49. > :06:58.but you can tweet along so that they know what they are missing, and we
:06:59. > :07:02.are also using the general hashtag here, -- general election hashtag,
:07:03. > :07:07.#GE2017. We put names in a hat to see who will go first, and first up
:07:08. > :07:12.is John McDonnell from labour. First of all, can I commend the FSB and
:07:13. > :07:16.the association, because for those of you who are members, you know how
:07:17. > :07:22.effective they are on lobbyists, and many of the policies all the parties
:07:23. > :07:24.are pursuing are based upon many of their representations that have been
:07:25. > :07:27.made. Labour's offer for small businesses is based on fairness, the
:07:28. > :07:34.principal at the centre of our campaign. We don't think it's fair
:07:35. > :07:38.that major corporations duck out of taxes with sweetheart deals at HMRC
:07:39. > :07:42.while small businesses have to report four times a year. We don't
:07:43. > :07:46.think it's fair that small businesses can go bust because a
:07:47. > :07:51.major supplier fails to pay them properly, and we don't think it's
:07:52. > :07:55.fair that small businesses can't get the finance they need to grow
:07:56. > :08:01.because the Big six banks won't lend, so the next Labour government
:08:02. > :08:05.will build an economy that works for all small businesses, not just giant
:08:06. > :08:09.multinationals. We will end quarterly reporting and clamp-down
:08:10. > :08:13.on late payments. We will set up a new national investment bank to make
:08:14. > :08:18.the low-cost long time... And I'm afraid you are out of time. If I had
:08:19. > :08:28.a bell, I would ding it, but I don't. Instead of cuts, we will
:08:29. > :08:31.invest. Almost! That is a real challenge!
:08:32. > :08:38.It is a challenge. Susan Kramer, the challenge is yours. You can see the
:08:39. > :08:46.time counting down. It almost looks as if I escaped from a hospital
:08:47. > :08:49.ward, carrying this Mike. -- microphone. The organisations
:08:50. > :08:53.represented are ones that have frequently been at our door as they
:08:54. > :08:56.should be, and I have assured them as I assured you that one of the
:08:57. > :09:00.first things we have to do, because businesses and small businesses are
:09:01. > :09:03.the absolute cornerstone of our economy, whether they are small and
:09:04. > :09:07.need to grow organically or whether they want to be fast growers and
:09:08. > :09:15.become the big as Mrs of the future, they need an economy that works for
:09:16. > :09:18.them,. It is outrageous that we had a revaluation of business rates
:09:19. > :09:24.without overhauling the Victorian system that benefits global Internet
:09:25. > :09:28.retailers and basically puts a huge burden on small business. That
:09:29. > :09:33.should never have happened. Many of you raised the issue of skills. We
:09:34. > :09:36.desperately need the apprenticeship levy to fund apprenticeships in your
:09:37. > :09:41.businesses, not go back into the pocket of Treasury, and we have to
:09:42. > :09:47.tackle the issue of your access to a EU workforce. The payment system
:09:48. > :09:52.absolutely critical. Why doesn't... I don't have a bell, but I do have a
:09:53. > :09:56.glass! It is more difficult than you think. Thank you very much indeed.
:09:57. > :10:03.APPLAUSE David.
:10:04. > :10:06.See if you can be the others. Thank you, I will attempt to do this
:10:07. > :10:10.without hesitation, repetition or deviation, which is not the easiest
:10:11. > :10:15.thing for a politician on any front! I want to deal with the specifics,
:10:16. > :10:19.but I just want to say first of all how important it is that we as
:10:20. > :10:21.politicians engage with small businesses and their
:10:22. > :10:25.representatives. I have the privilege of being a Minister for
:10:26. > :10:30.seven years, and had a very good relationship with the FSB and the
:10:31. > :10:34.ACS. We don't agree on everything, but I hope we have always listened,
:10:35. > :10:37.and even when there is strong agreement, disagreement, there is
:10:38. > :10:43.always a constructive relationship. We have done a lot I think for small
:10:44. > :10:49.businesses in the last seven years, and I will talk about that later on
:10:50. > :10:53.this morning. But what is important is that we do share the values I
:10:54. > :10:57.think most small businesses have, that I have a successful economy we
:10:58. > :10:59.have got to encourage entrepreneurialism, have a dynamic
:11:00. > :11:04.economy, we have got to be in favour of creating wealth not just
:11:05. > :11:08.redistributing it, and that is what you'll get with a conservative
:11:09. > :11:11.Government. Well done! APPLAUSE
:11:12. > :11:16.I think I might invest in a bell, it is quite a good thing to have. We
:11:17. > :11:20.will go straight to our topics, and the first thing we're going to
:11:21. > :11:23.discuss is tax unfairness. I know this is an issue that is close to
:11:24. > :11:28.the hearts of almost everybody in the room. Our first question is from
:11:29. > :11:33.Steve Hyland, a member of the ACS. So if you could stand up, thank you
:11:34. > :11:38.very much. The microphone is coming. And just tell us what your question
:11:39. > :11:44.is. Good morning, panel. Thank you for giving your time up to come and
:11:45. > :11:47.speak to us all. One in three stores in the convenience sector have seen
:11:48. > :11:52.their business rates increase as a result of revaluation, including my
:11:53. > :11:56.business. What will the candidates do to make the business rate system
:11:57. > :11:59.fairer and not penalised those who wish to invest? Thank you. John
:12:00. > :12:10.McDonnell first of all. diversifies we published our
:12:11. > :12:17.proposals and we consulted the FSB. We said we will introduce statutory
:12:18. > :12:22.reevaluation to stop unimaginable heights on a regular basis, and we
:12:23. > :12:28.will guarantee a fair and transparent process. We will bring
:12:29. > :12:32.forward indexation so businesses are not paying more because of how
:12:33. > :12:43.inflation is measured. We want to exclude machine -- machinery from
:12:44. > :12:51.investment. -- from business rates. We want to create a fair business
:12:52. > :12:58.taxation system. We have set aside a compensation arrangement as well. If
:12:59. > :13:03.you recall, we put forward ?150 million for three years, then 350
:13:04. > :13:08.million a year until 2020 on the indexation costing, so that that
:13:09. > :13:14.way, we can ease the pressures and I regret there has been a delay with
:13:15. > :13:18.so compensation package that the other meant promised and hasn't been
:13:19. > :13:25.implemented yet, but we will be able to ease the pressure on existing
:13:26. > :13:29.businesses. In that way, businesses will not face ever again these major
:13:30. > :13:37.hikes that has worried so many people. We were very frustrated in
:13:38. > :13:43.the coalition years, Dani Osvaldo -- Danny Alexander setup towards the
:13:44. > :13:49.end of the coalition, the new is rates, we saw it was going more
:13:50. > :13:53.rate. I can the Victorian Iraq, the value of your property was probably
:13:54. > :13:59.a decent proxy for whether or not you were a small, medium or big
:14:00. > :14:03.business. But is long over and we have a system now that really
:14:04. > :14:07.penalises our high-street shops versus internet, retail lowball
:14:08. > :14:12.players, and that cannot be allowed to continue. That was truncated
:14:13. > :14:17.after the end of the coalition, that did not continue with the in-depth
:14:18. > :14:21.work associated with it, we Frankie should never have been where we are
:14:22. > :14:29.today. -- we frankly should never have been here. We have a commission
:14:30. > :14:33.in place which is headed by Vince, it has been working for nine months,
:14:34. > :14:38.to come up with an alternate way to look at the way in which we tax
:14:39. > :14:42.businesses that works for the 21st-century and further away mostly
:14:43. > :14:48.-- modern business functions and doesn't go back to tinker at the
:14:49. > :14:58.edges with the Dick Taurean system that is long out of date. -- the
:14:59. > :15:05.Victorian system. The art challenges business rates. The do agree with
:15:06. > :15:09.John that there is a need for more regular reevaluation. I think the
:15:10. > :15:13.five years of the seven years we just saw does create sudden jumps.
:15:14. > :15:18.It is difficult for those who are paying more, and there is also a
:15:19. > :15:23.question for those who are paying less, perhaps they should have been
:15:24. > :15:28.paying less than earlier stage. I think more regular reevaluation is a
:15:29. > :15:33.sensible approach. There are technical challenges to get that
:15:34. > :15:38.through, to how we deal with appeals, to prevent the vexatious
:15:39. > :15:45.appeals and many to focus the appeals on getting to people
:15:46. > :15:49.quickly. If you look at what we have done in terms of putting money into
:15:50. > :15:54.reduced the pressures on business rates, we had the biggest package
:15:55. > :15:59.announced a few years ago, including moving to the CPI, we also in the
:16:00. > :16:04.March budget had that support package but is this rates, first of
:16:05. > :16:09.all for those hardest hit by the degree of valuation, and secondly as
:16:10. > :16:13.discretionary fund that local authorities can use to help
:16:14. > :16:19.particular businesses, it could be used with helping high states. On a
:16:20. > :16:24.more fundamental reform issue, it is right, we do need to look at those
:16:25. > :16:28.internet retailers and find a better way of taxing them and what we have
:16:29. > :16:33.promised in our manifesto is that we would have our review to look at
:16:34. > :16:37.that. Did you tell people they would know the compensation package before
:16:38. > :16:42.the elect Shannon? I don't big anyone has heard it. We are trying
:16:43. > :16:47.to get that through as quickly as we possibly can, there is a big
:16:48. > :16:53.compensation package, ?430 million, that is not something that has
:16:54. > :16:57.happened before. To help those seeing significant increases. One of
:16:58. > :17:01.the things we have done in six ended small business rates which means an
:17:02. > :17:05.awful the small as Mrs who previously worked weighing business
:17:06. > :17:14.rates are now longer paying his miss rates. A lot of businesses were
:17:15. > :17:20.waiting for the relief package to come into place. The guidance has
:17:21. > :17:23.only just come out and the local councils say we are operating in the
:17:24. > :17:28.dark, they couldn't bring in the reef with enough because the
:17:29. > :17:31.guidance was there, and it has caused a lot of distress to people
:17:32. > :17:36.and we shouldn't let that happen again. Audience, what you are
:17:37. > :17:40.hearing here, is it what you want to hear or do you want to hear
:17:41. > :17:45.something else? Does anyone has have a question on this topic? This issue
:17:46. > :17:49.about the difference between gift from -- online trading and
:17:50. > :17:53.traditional trading is one we have to address. It is protest the unfair
:17:54. > :18:00.that you have an online trader on some industrial estate making
:18:01. > :18:05.significant rockets but at the same time, there reevaluation is
:18:06. > :18:11.although, and that has an effect and undermined our high-street. I want
:18:12. > :18:17.to get through all four topics. This is about creating more jobs and
:18:18. > :18:25.better working lives, something we all want. Our first question comes
:18:26. > :18:30.from the FSB's National Chairman. Thank you. My question to the panel
:18:31. > :18:35.is that we have 4.8 million self-employed now in the UK, and
:18:36. > :18:39.that is still growing. What will the panel do to support them and will
:18:40. > :18:46.you not single them out for further tax increases? Very good question.
:18:47. > :18:51.David, would you like to take it first? One of the things we have
:18:52. > :18:56.seen in the last few years is a buoyant job market, a lot of growth
:18:57. > :19:03.in jobs and a lot of that has been through stuff employment. That is
:19:04. > :19:07.something to be welcomed, we've got very low levels of unemployed in
:19:08. > :19:12.this country and that is great news. It is important that we have an
:19:13. > :19:16.entrepreneurial dynamic economy and that is why we have to be careful
:19:17. > :19:23.about clobbering business collectively with higher taxes. You
:19:24. > :19:29.can stifle but and you can damage that job growth that we have seen
:19:30. > :19:34.over the last few years. I suspect what you are partly alluding to is
:19:35. > :19:38.the issue of self-employed national insurance contributions which we
:19:39. > :19:47.popped our policy on that, we have said we need to look at the changing
:19:48. > :19:52.jobs market. Matthew Taylor is doing a review of that. It is also about
:19:53. > :19:55.protecting people from change in the economy, that we don't see
:19:56. > :20:01.exportation of people in a way that is unfair, and that self-employment
:20:02. > :20:09.isn't false, if you like. We will see what Matthew Taylor says a look
:20:10. > :20:14.at his recommendations. We've got to strike the right balance to ensure
:20:15. > :20:19.we encourage the self-employed, encourage entrepreneurs, protect our
:20:20. > :20:25.tax rates, and also ensure that individuals cannot be exploited by
:20:26. > :20:28.people describing themselves as self-employed when they are actually
:20:29. > :20:35.employed but it is around -- a way of getting around employment issues.
:20:36. > :20:40.We have two grids in self-employment, to -- one who are
:20:41. > :20:45.self-employed and others like companies who see there are
:20:46. > :20:50.advantages in struck shrink their employees into a self-employed mode
:20:51. > :20:56.in order to cut down basically on their cost and taxes. It is very
:20:57. > :20:59.unfair, when we're -- they are competing against employers who are
:21:00. > :21:06.direct and honest, about their employees. That fake implement, we
:21:07. > :21:11.have to about identifying real employment to try and capture that
:21:12. > :21:15.group to make sure that loophole is closed firmly and quickly.
:21:16. > :21:20.Self-employment can be very attract div and the beginning of
:21:21. > :21:24.entrepreneurship all kinds. I think if you are self-employed can we do
:21:25. > :21:31.take great risks, and I think that has to be reflected in the way we
:21:32. > :21:35.tax people. That is why I am so imposed on the increase that falls
:21:36. > :21:40.back on the individual who is all very the victim of that decision to
:21:41. > :21:45.try and we struck a day job in a way that was just sort of shadows and
:21:46. > :21:52.mirrors. I think it is screw shot that we support people who are
:21:53. > :22:04.self-employed. -- I think it is screw shot will. -- crucial. I am
:22:05. > :22:08.concerned that we are trying to cope with issues like Brexit and goodness
:22:09. > :22:14.knows whatever else when this should have been a number one priority on
:22:15. > :22:19.our agenda because it is coming very quickly, this complete change in the
:22:20. > :22:23.job market driven by this change in technology and the internet and we
:22:24. > :22:28.have to prepare people from it and we have to make sure that the
:22:29. > :22:33.self-employed group, above all, have real access to training, skills, and
:22:34. > :22:37.opportunities. They can to get left out when we look at all those kinds
:22:38. > :22:44.of things, they look at people who are employed. Small is Mrs R the
:22:45. > :22:49.engine of this economy and they are largely driven by self-employment.
:22:50. > :22:56.I'll tell you what we don't do and what we should do, what you don't do
:22:57. > :23:00.is increase national insurance, we have guaranteed there will be no
:23:01. > :23:07.increase in national insurance. What you don't do, either, you don't
:23:08. > :23:10.increase VAT, so we will make sure the 80s not increased and arrayed
:23:11. > :23:17.the government. What you do do is make sure the unplayed -- the
:23:18. > :23:22.employed on generally employed. We need a definition of self-employment
:23:23. > :23:31.which squeezes out those bogus self-employed. We need to look at
:23:32. > :23:35.the umbrella companies, some of these payroll companies that are
:23:36. > :23:39.exploiting the workers themselves. What you also do is you make sure
:23:40. > :23:43.the self-employed and small businesses can operate effectively.
:23:44. > :23:48.That means tackling late payments and what we are saying is that you
:23:49. > :23:55.can start with public procurement, make sure public bodies pay on time.
:23:56. > :24:02.Secondly, what we have suggested is that we want the Australian type,
:24:03. > :24:06.possibly arbitration and legal finds it necessary of arbitration is not
:24:07. > :24:11.working, to make sure that people get paid from Chile. We want to make
:24:12. > :24:21.sure that people have access to the funds they need. That means lifting
:24:22. > :24:25.business rates and also having access to that finance. That is why
:24:26. > :24:30.we are saying the national investment bank is key. Within the
:24:31. > :24:35.mandate of those banks will be support for small businesses. In
:24:36. > :24:39.terms of procurement, wide and we learned the lesson of what has
:24:40. > :24:44.happened elsewhere which is that on public procurement, you include in
:24:45. > :24:47.the rules that you ensure that small businesses get a look in when they
:24:48. > :24:54.are bidding for contracts. That way, when you have an -- you have an over
:24:55. > :25:07.-- an overarching weight to support the sector. I'm at journalist. It is
:25:08. > :25:12.a question for all the panel but mainly to John, has your team
:25:13. > :25:18.modelled the effect of employment in small with Mrs to raise the minimum
:25:19. > :25:25.wage to ?10 an hour at all workers and David, is your team doing that
:25:26. > :25:33.as well? -- employment in small businesses. When we introduced the
:25:34. > :25:38.national living wage, the OBE are looks at the impact of this and
:25:39. > :25:43.essentially, our model was that the national living wage should be 60%
:25:44. > :25:50.of median income. At that point, if I remember correctly, the ABI said
:25:51. > :25:56.that cost of -- for the overall economy would be 60,000 jobs in a
:25:57. > :26:00.period of time when there was likely to be an increase of jobs to 1
:26:01. > :26:07.million, so there would still be a very substantial net increase in
:26:08. > :26:11.jobs, so we did the basis -- the lobbying on the basis of 60,000
:26:12. > :26:17.jobs. We looked at those figures and have taken advice and we are looking
:26:18. > :26:22.at ?10 an hour by 2020, that is the whole purpose of this, to lift
:26:23. > :26:33.peoples wages, as we cannot have a sick duration where people go to
:26:34. > :26:38.work and people have less. We will protect small businesses. We will
:26:39. > :26:49.make sure they are represented on the living wage body that we ask
:26:50. > :26:53.that the rate -- setting up. We will use the employment support
:26:54. > :27:01.allowance, as has been suggested, to protect small with Mrs when needed.
:27:02. > :27:06.We've got to ensure we lift people out of poverty and that people have
:27:07. > :27:22.money to spend and part of that is that ?10 minimum wage.
:27:23. > :27:29.We think the other parties have come up with a false number. We want a
:27:30. > :27:35.commission looking permanently at this kind of vision, but with a
:27:36. > :27:41.different mandates from that which it has now. But it is important to
:27:42. > :27:45.say that in the long term we cannot sustain an economy where somebody
:27:46. > :27:50.works full in a normal family and does not earn enough to be able to
:27:51. > :27:54.live in what is considered a reasonable and decent way. During
:27:55. > :27:59.the period of recession following the 2008 crash in a sense wages
:28:00. > :28:04.stagnated but in-work benefits covered some of that gap. I would
:28:05. > :28:08.say that was the right way to deal with a recession because it kept a
:28:09. > :28:12.lot of businesses in business rather than failing and it meant people
:28:13. > :28:17.stayed in employment rather than losing their jobs. But we have to
:28:18. > :28:20.transition out of that no to a long-term, sustainable basis in
:28:21. > :28:25.which the salary you earn is enough to keep you. You could say the
:28:26. > :28:30.Conservatives tried to do some of that by raising the living wage, but
:28:31. > :28:36.what they have done is cut the in work welfare benefits really
:28:37. > :28:40.harshly, putting the burden of that transition on people who either
:28:41. > :28:49.least able to cope with it. That I have found out as outrageous. The
:28:50. > :28:54.condition should not have been handled in that way. One of the
:28:55. > :28:59.first things they should have done with lift the pay freeze on the
:29:00. > :29:03.public sector workers. It is held at 1% and is keeping many of those
:29:04. > :29:08.people requiring benefits in order to survive and live, which is
:29:09. > :29:11.unacceptable. If you had allowed that realignment to come in public
:29:12. > :29:15.sector wages that would have lifted private sector wages as well and
:29:16. > :29:21.brought down the Welfare Bill in that way. But we have to get back to
:29:22. > :29:30.long-term sustainability, but how you do it and who gets her worries
:29:31. > :29:37.me greatly because the vulnerable get hurt. We have to move on, do you
:29:38. > :29:42.recognise what she is saying? Very briefly. The numbers we had were
:29:43. > :29:47.worked out by Sir George Bain, a very respected figure in this area.
:29:48. > :29:49.There is a balance that has to be struck between increasing wages
:29:50. > :29:54.without running the risk of increasing unemployment and we think
:29:55. > :29:57.we have struck that balance right. If you want to drive up wages
:29:58. > :30:05.generally, you have to improve productivity and we have to be
:30:06. > :30:09.attractive for investment. Trying to increase our corporation tax take
:30:10. > :30:12.from 50 billion up to 80 billion will dissuade businesses from
:30:13. > :30:18.investing in the UK and that is a big risk on jobs. That was not very
:30:19. > :30:24.brief. John, you can be very brief. We want to ensure that large
:30:25. > :30:27.corporations pay their way and the burden does not fall upon small
:30:28. > :30:32.businesses in the way you tried to impose national insurance increases
:30:33. > :30:35.on them. At the same time we need to ensure that the living wage is
:30:36. > :30:41.there. There is a lot of work on what is a real living wage. We
:30:42. > :30:45.cannot live in a society where the Royal College of nurses only a few
:30:46. > :30:50.weeks ago reported that nurses are going to food banks to survive. That
:30:51. > :30:55.cannot be right in the fifth largest economy in the world and that is
:30:56. > :31:00.because of low pay. It is a combination of not having a real
:31:01. > :31:05.living wage and pay cuts. Wages are 10% below those in 2008 and the
:31:06. > :31:12.period of the crash. The only really developed economy where we have got
:31:13. > :31:15.great back again will have consequences for demand on
:31:16. > :31:20.businesses. We have to leave theirs, we could go on all day on this. And
:31:21. > :31:24.possibly on the next one as well. This is an issue I know is close to
:31:25. > :31:29.all of you and it is the revitalisation of the high Street.
:31:30. > :31:32.What is it like these days when you walk down high Street and you see a
:31:33. > :31:42.lot of shops closed and a lot of charity shops open? We have a
:31:43. > :31:45.question. Good morning, thank you for taking my question. High streets
:31:46. > :31:50.and town centres have had a tough time in the last ten years,
:31:51. > :31:55.notwithstanding revaluation rates and the online business practically
:31:56. > :32:00.wiping them out. That is a slight exaggeration, but there is an
:32:01. > :32:04.element of truth in that. The question is what will the candidates
:32:05. > :32:09.do to encourage people to shop on their local high street in town
:32:10. > :32:15.centres and support the businesses trading in those locations? Susan. I
:32:16. > :32:21.lived for nearly 20 years in the United States and in that great
:32:22. > :32:25.heart of capitalism local authorities have an enormous amount
:32:26. > :32:29.of power to shape their high streets in ways that will work for the
:32:30. > :32:35.general economy and vitality of their local community. It may be
:32:36. > :32:41.sometimes limiting chain stores, it may be encouraging certain kinds of
:32:42. > :32:50.stories to come in. Working together with town centre managers who try
:32:51. > :32:54.and recreate areas inspired by the history, some successfully. But we
:32:55. > :32:59.need to move back to local decision-making and rather than the
:33:00. > :33:04.inflexibility we have today said that areas can identify what their
:33:05. > :33:07.unique selling point is, what their local community wants, what will
:33:08. > :33:15.bring the local community out onto the street. A key part of that is
:33:16. > :33:21.the vitality of the independent, small store owners who responds to
:33:22. > :33:25.that local community because they are embedded and part of it. I think
:33:26. > :33:30.there is a huge amount we can do and if anybody doubts that, go to the
:33:31. > :33:36.States and see what they have managed to do to take a decayed
:33:37. > :33:40.central downtown and turn it back into something vital and vibrant
:33:41. > :33:45.with very successful shops. We need to pick up on this international
:33:46. > :33:50.examples. How do you do that? We have been talking about business
:33:51. > :33:55.rates, the self-employed, how do you square that circle and what will you
:33:56. > :33:59.do about it? There is something in what Susan is saying about
:34:00. > :34:04.empowering local authorities in this area. So in the context of business
:34:05. > :34:10.rates for example the discretionary summers that local authorities are
:34:11. > :34:16.getting which they can use in terms of helping those hit by business
:34:17. > :34:18.rates, but we should give more flexibility to local authorities
:34:19. > :34:23.generally in terms of offering business rate discounts. Can they
:34:24. > :34:30.afford business rate discounts? In some cases local authorities take
:34:31. > :34:32.the view is that if that is what it takes to make the high street more
:34:33. > :34:38.vibrant, it is worth it. Who has done that? A number of local
:34:39. > :34:43.authorities have look at options, but we have only just given them the
:34:44. > :34:47.powers. Also, looking at parking, freeing up local authorities to make
:34:48. > :34:52.decisions as to what is right for parking for them so cars are not
:34:53. > :34:56.dissuaded from being in a particular area. There are fundamental
:34:57. > :35:01.challenges. You are right to mention online, and we talked about that in
:35:02. > :35:05.the context of business rates. A lot of this is driven by the fact
:35:06. > :35:11.consumers are making different decisions compared to a few years
:35:12. > :35:15.ago. But there are places where we are seeing high streets starting to
:35:16. > :35:20.turn around by providing what people want. That has got to be the key to
:35:21. > :35:23.it as well. I think a lot of it is about giving local authorities that
:35:24. > :35:28.flexibility to decide what they want from their high street. John. One of
:35:29. > :35:32.the most exciting things that has happened in the Labour Party is we
:35:33. > :35:38.have this Labour business group and we have also got this massive Labour
:35:39. > :35:44.SME group, small businesses coming together. Writing in parts of our
:35:45. > :35:52.manifesto and getting engaged. What we have decided is every Labour
:35:53. > :35:56.constituency party now will have a business person and it is going down
:35:57. > :36:02.a bomb and it has been a fantastic opportunity for us. Practical ideas
:36:03. > :36:04.come forward. I was talking to my local convenience stores and
:36:05. > :36:10.high-street reps and a couple of things came out. One, security has
:36:11. > :36:14.become a real issue. The loss of safer neighbourhood team is, the
:36:15. > :36:21.loss of town centre policing teams has become a real issue. It has
:36:22. > :36:26.happened right across the country. The 20,000 please cut is about
:36:27. > :36:30.security overall. We are talking about it in the context of
:36:31. > :36:35.terrorism, but it is about security in the town centres and at night
:36:36. > :36:40.time in town centres. We say we will reinstate that with 10,000 police
:36:41. > :36:45.officers and we want to look at how that impact town centres. The second
:36:46. > :36:51.issue, whether local bank branches close, that impact on the rest of
:36:52. > :36:54.the high street. Say very clearly to the banks, you will not be allowed
:36:55. > :36:59.to close a local branch unless you can demonstrate there is no real
:37:00. > :37:04.need and unless there has been a proper consultation. We want to
:37:05. > :37:08.ensure there is at least one bank branch on every high street because
:37:09. > :37:12.it does impact on small businesses banking and overall footfall as
:37:13. > :37:17.well. Just on this local authority issue, we cannot keep on panning
:37:18. > :37:20.local authorities for not intervening whilst we are cutting
:37:21. > :37:27.the resources they have to invest in their local area. I think this is a
:37:28. > :37:29.cross-party point of view from local government. Local Government
:37:30. > :37:33.Association said they want to be involved in the revival of their
:37:34. > :37:38.town centres and shopping parades, but they have not got the resources
:37:39. > :37:41.to do that. Part of the issue is about how we invest in the future
:37:42. > :37:46.and how we ensure local authorities have the resources to do that, but
:37:47. > :37:51.they do it on the basis of being required to consult properly with
:37:52. > :37:55.local small businesses. Rather than take questions because we want to
:37:56. > :38:03.move onto Brexit in a second. You asked the question. What you heard,
:38:04. > :38:10.the microphone is coming to you, what you heard, does that answer
:38:11. > :38:14.your question? It partly helps. Local convenience store is our
:38:15. > :38:19.bricks and mortar businesses and they cannot run away. They have got
:38:20. > :38:23.to be there. They are holding the local environment together. If they
:38:24. > :38:28.become more run down, so many places have been decimated, market towns
:38:29. > :38:33.across the country have been run down and they have invited very bad
:38:34. > :38:39.behaviour. Then there is more expenditure on policing and social
:38:40. > :38:44.services etc. I think the government needs to invest money and I am not
:38:45. > :38:47.suggesting people can change the online behaviour, that is a
:38:48. > :38:52.challenge, I accept that, but we need to bring social housing into
:38:53. > :38:56.town centres, we need to bring in other amenities and not allow local
:38:57. > :38:59.authorities to use bricks and mortar businesses which have got nowhere to
:39:00. > :39:07.go as cash cows. Thank you very much. They are more than just a
:39:08. > :39:16.shop. We are really tight for time and I want to move on. If it is very
:39:17. > :39:23.quick. I ran a small community store in Berkshire. Yes, just adding on to
:39:24. > :39:29.that point, for example I can just about the threshold where we get the
:39:30. > :39:33.discount, it is ?14,000 rateable value. In our business there is a
:39:34. > :39:39.business across the road that pays zero business rates. Because our
:39:40. > :39:44.store is 100 square feet bigger we are paying about ?8,000 a year
:39:45. > :39:46.business rates. On top of that with the ?10 minimum wage and we will
:39:47. > :39:54.probably end up paying another ?5,000. How does this affect your
:39:55. > :39:56.business? Overall you have got the increase in corporation tax which
:39:57. > :40:00.will trickle down to small businesses, the business rates and
:40:01. > :40:06.the minimum wage and it will put a cost of ?30,000 a year dashed
:40:07. > :40:14.?30,000 a year. Will you survive? No, you cannot. An average is
:40:15. > :40:18.?65,000 gross profit. Because we are tied into a lease there is nowhere
:40:19. > :40:24.for us to go. As soon as the lease runs out it would make it worthwhile
:40:25. > :40:27.to move across the road and set up a pop-up shop where we pay no rates
:40:28. > :40:32.and get a discount from the council and the rents may be free. That
:40:33. > :40:36.paints a very clear picture for our panel and as much as I would love
:40:37. > :40:40.you to answer it, I am afraid you cannot. Thank you for a painting
:40:41. > :40:47.that picture, it gives them food for thought. Let's move to the elephant
:40:48. > :40:50.in the room, of course, how do you secure a pro-business Brexit? Is
:40:51. > :40:57.anyone worried about Brexit and how it will impact on them? I thought
:40:58. > :41:02.there might be a bit of that. Let's hear from the parties what they will
:41:03. > :41:08.be doing about it. Possible, FSB policy adviser Charlotte has a
:41:09. > :41:14.question for us. Unlike a lot of other business groups, our members
:41:15. > :41:17.are very split over the EU referendum broadly reflecting the UK
:41:18. > :41:23.population, but all of our members care about jobs and trade post
:41:24. > :41:26.Brexit. My question is, how will you promote small business exporters and
:41:27. > :41:34.small business access to talent and skills that they need? They take
:41:35. > :41:41.that first. It is a really important question and getting a good Brexit
:41:42. > :41:46.deal is the most important challenge the next government will face. So it
:41:47. > :41:53.is a real priority for us as a country. We need to have that deep
:41:54. > :41:57.and special partnership with the European Union. We also need to
:41:58. > :42:04.identify new trading opportunities around the world. The referendum was
:42:05. > :42:09.last year. I wanted to remain, but we have to accept the result. You
:42:10. > :42:12.cannot go back on it, we cannot tell the British people they got it wrong
:42:13. > :42:18.and we will rerun the whole thing, but it is very important as we shape
:42:19. > :42:22.Brexit that we do so as an open, outward looking economy, prepared to
:42:23. > :42:26.trade around the world and the key question for us is do we have a
:42:27. > :42:33.Prime Minister and a team who are strong enough to get that good deal?
:42:34. > :42:36.We have got a strong mandate from the British people so they can
:42:37. > :42:40.negotiate with confidence and we have got the determination to
:42:41. > :42:44.deliver a pro-business Brexit for the United Kingdom. When it comes to
:42:45. > :42:55.that it seems to me that very clearly Theresa May and
:42:56. > :43:04.Could I just say to you, I was on the Lord's supper committee for
:43:05. > :43:09.SMEs. We looked at SMEs exporting across the company. And that
:43:10. > :43:14.difference between their ability to selling with the single market
:43:15. > :43:20.customs union across the continental Europe which they could do as
:43:21. > :43:22.easily... We are in London today, as easy as they could between London
:43:23. > :43:29.and Guilford, they could sell between London and Milan, London and
:43:30. > :43:34.Brussels, the ease with which they could do it, that disappears because
:43:35. > :43:36.Theresa May decided we are coming out of the single market and the
:43:37. > :43:42.customs union. The companies are better able placed to cope with
:43:43. > :43:50.that, the burden will fall heavily on our small businesses, and all the
:43:51. > :43:52.other issues that go with it. I love the idea that small British
:43:53. > :44:00.companies will export across the globe. I was a transport minister,
:44:01. > :44:06.small companies used to use this phrase about selling to China, one
:44:07. > :44:08.sale only, because they could not protect their past links when they
:44:09. > :44:14.sold them. I worked with companies try to sell to Latin America,
:44:15. > :44:20.impossible to get letters of credit said they could even be paid. There
:44:21. > :44:24.are real obstacles to selling internationally, and losing that key
:44:25. > :44:28.market where we currently sell 44% of our goods with an ease that is
:44:29. > :44:34.pretty much similar as selling down the street is a huge problem. That
:44:35. > :44:41.is one of the reasons... And along with being able to access and EU
:44:42. > :44:46.workforce. Quite frankly, would you go through a hostile Beezer system
:44:47. > :44:51.in order to come to did UK, your partner possibly not being able to
:44:52. > :44:57.work, or would you take a job in Berlin or in Dusseldorf or Milan or
:44:58. > :45:04.somewhere else that has exactly what you wanted? This deal could land
:45:05. > :45:09.anywhere along huge spectrum and large parts of the spectrum has a
:45:10. > :45:12.terrible impact on small businesses and it is why they should be a
:45:13. > :45:16.threat to render on the final deal because we have no idea what its
:45:17. > :45:20.content is going to be, we will have to live with it for a generation or
:45:21. > :45:25.a generation and a half and wild decision on whether we live with it
:45:26. > :45:32.all stayed within the EU should be yours not a single Prime Minister.
:45:33. > :45:38.If you wrote the section of the manifesto, well done, the point you
:45:39. > :45:48.make in it are highly pertinent. DFS the and the manifest dough, people
:45:49. > :45:55.may have voted to leave the eat you but they didn't but got a loss of
:45:56. > :45:59.jobs and the undermining of our business based in this country so
:46:00. > :46:02.that has to be one of the key aspects we secure. I don't think you
:46:03. > :46:10.secure that access by the roster and directs. I don't think this concept
:46:11. > :46:16.of no deal is possible. We've got to get a deal. In my former life I was
:46:17. > :46:21.a Chief Executive and used to represent London boroughs and I had
:46:22. > :46:28.a office in Brussels. The negotiating style Brussels is you
:46:29. > :46:31.negotiate with mutual respect, you don't threaten in the way that the
:46:32. > :46:37.Prime Minister has done, that somehow we will be a tax haven of
:46:38. > :46:43.the age of continental Europe, that is undermining getting the best deal
:46:44. > :46:48.we can. We have to change the tone. We need access to the single market,
:46:49. > :46:53.tariff-free, we accept that means the end of free movement but that
:46:54. > :46:59.means we have managed migration system. We need to make sure we do
:47:00. > :47:05.not lose the skills and talents we have in the EU. We need to guarantee
:47:06. > :47:12.now the rights of Ede citizens in this tree. There are too many people
:47:13. > :47:20.in this country that we depend upon. In the negotiations, whether a free
:47:21. > :47:23.trade or whatever, I agree with the FSB there has to be a small-business
:47:24. > :47:28.caveat to protect small illnesses and promote them. The issue with
:47:29. > :47:35.training and the rest of the world, it is important that we recognise
:47:36. > :47:38.the engine of growth in this economy and also engines of export,
:47:39. > :47:43.particularly when we have this oblong with our current account
:47:44. > :47:49.deficit at the moment. I'm interested in the FSB proposal about
:47:50. > :47:54.tax relief for small businesses that are involved in exporting in the
:47:55. > :48:00.future. I think there is a package of measures that could be really
:48:01. > :48:05.constructed but we have to change the tone of these negotiations to
:48:06. > :48:08.ensure we get the best deal and that it is a collaborative one and in the
:48:09. > :48:15.interests of our country and the rest of the world. We have to wrap
:48:16. > :48:20.up in a couple of minutes. Our esteemed guests are on the campaign
:48:21. > :48:27.Trail and they have taken time out to be with us. Given what you have
:48:28. > :48:34.heard on the Brexit issue, is there anyone here that feels better
:48:35. > :48:42.business may not survive? That is encouraging. Does anyone feel this
:48:43. > :48:45.election, when it comes to people like you who own businesses and
:48:46. > :48:49.other people in the community as well, they will vote in terms of
:48:50. > :48:59.credit rather in terms of what we would normal -- normally vote on?
:49:00. > :49:06.Anyone voting on Brexit Alliance? This will be the final thought of
:49:07. > :49:10.the day. My concerns are the Lib Dems are very much for stained in
:49:11. > :49:16.the EU, if they were handling our Brexit, would they then secure a bad
:49:17. > :49:22.deal and we would have a worst possible deal because they want us
:49:23. > :49:29.to stay in? And, Labour, if you had given us the right to vote into the
:49:30. > :49:36.EU now, would we be here now? You are very pro-EU and I feel that at
:49:37. > :49:43.the moment, the only party I can see supporting the majority of the
:49:44. > :49:48.British people is the Conservatives. Remember in Parliament, to be frank,
:49:49. > :49:53.we have all accented Teret Rendon, we might have campaigned for remain
:49:54. > :49:59.but we have accepted the result because that is democracy. We have
:50:00. > :50:05.to commit ourselves to get the best deal possible and that Western deal
:50:06. > :50:12.must protect jobs. This is the final bill. Are you optimistic we will get
:50:13. > :50:18.a good bill -- deal? Yes, but we need to get the right team doing it.
:50:19. > :50:25.We have the best team. The reality is, as of now, and from now on, if
:50:26. > :50:33.we get a bad deal, everybody here will have absolutely no choice, no
:50:34. > :50:37.say, no escape from it. They will be with it for a generation and a
:50:38. > :50:42.generation and a half. No opportunity to challenge or we think
:50:43. > :50:48.or change. I don't been that is democracy. I'm convinced we can get
:50:49. > :50:56.a good deal. If a Labour government is collect it. I am petrified about
:50:57. > :51:04.the way Theresa May is going about it. And if Boris gets his hands on
:51:05. > :51:06.any of this, we are sunk. Thank you.