:00:11. > :00:24.You make it sound like First Dates. I think I will need Fred, the
:00:25. > :00:29.concierge, to help us unaware. I hadn't really honoured to have been
:00:30. > :00:33.asked to give this lecture, honoured personally but also in particular
:00:34. > :00:37.because of the very invitation. It shows how the world has changed, and
:00:38. > :00:43.I believe for the better. Apart from being the great novelist we know,
:00:44. > :00:50.George Orwell was a guardian both of language and of democracy. He was a
:00:51. > :01:07.foretell of future perils and as Tony saw rightly says a man of the
:01:08. > :01:11.left, but he was also an old and here I stand to give a lecture in
:01:12. > :01:18.his honour. I don't kid myself he would approve. He said that
:01:19. > :01:22.politicians imply language to make murder respectable and give an
:01:23. > :01:27.appearance of solidity to pure wind. Goodness knows what he would make of
:01:28. > :01:31.the current election campaign. Strong, stable... No!
:01:32. > :01:37.LAUGHTER I want to take a step back from the
:01:38. > :01:40.general election, if only for an hour, to discuss one element of his
:01:41. > :01:46.legacy, and as a subject matter I have chosen what we might now called
:01:47. > :01:52.the politics of identity, or the question of nationalism and
:01:53. > :01:55.patriotism. It was Orwell who wrote the two should not be confused, and
:01:56. > :01:58.I would like to use this speech to examine the differences between the
:01:59. > :02:02.two and how we need to combat the narrow nationalism of our times and
:02:03. > :02:06.find a more pluralistic unpatriotic way forward. I would also like to
:02:07. > :02:09.speak about some of my own experiences as a politician in
:02:10. > :02:14.Scotland, and as someone who for more than five years has been
:02:15. > :02:17.contesting a constitutional battle for identity politics has become
:02:18. > :02:21.staples of the debate. To begin with, if we are going to discuss
:02:22. > :02:25.this evening the difference between patriotism and nationalism I think
:02:26. > :02:32.we should begin by defining exactly what it is we mean. What first then
:02:33. > :02:36.of patriotism? For Orwell, patriotism was devotion to a
:02:37. > :02:41.particular place, which he says "One believes to be the best in the world
:02:42. > :02:45.but has no wish to force on other people." For me patriotism is the
:02:46. > :02:48.accepted that one might as easily have come from Brazil as Britain,
:02:49. > :02:52.but which are the same time recognises that since we are here,
:02:53. > :02:57.in Britain, and since we all happen to be born on this particular set of
:02:58. > :03:01.rocky islands in the north-west corner of Europe, let us all
:03:02. > :03:05.celebrate it and feel pride in it, let us cheer Mo Farah directory, but
:03:06. > :03:10.let's make sure we stick around and watch Usain Bolt break another
:03:11. > :03:14.record as well. As Orwell suggests, patriotism is more unlikely. It
:03:15. > :03:25.doesn't impose itself, doesn't take itself too seriously. It is the want
:03:26. > :03:31.that the UK will succeed at the Eurovision but not really caring
:03:32. > :03:37.when Bulgaria gives us nil points. LAUGHTER
:03:38. > :03:43.It is my preparation of dogs but not mind when people prefer cats. It is
:03:44. > :03:47.my coming out as homosexual women but not having a problem with
:03:48. > :03:49.heterosexual men, as long as they take the bins out!
:03:50. > :03:55.LAUGHTER So to be patriotically British does
:03:56. > :04:00.not mean we have to oppose. Indeed patriotism celebrates difference and
:04:01. > :04:04.messiness and we can be proudly Scottish, Welsh, Asian, Pakistani,
:04:05. > :04:08.and at the same time enjoy our Britishness. Patriotism does not
:04:09. > :04:12.force us to rank these identities in order as if one or other has a
:04:13. > :04:16.higher claim. I am proud to be Scottish and British. I am proud to
:04:17. > :04:20.be Scottish and British and have campaigned for the UK to remain
:04:21. > :04:23.within the EU. I'm proud to be Scottish and British female in a
:04:24. > :04:31.Christian and Conservative and from five and a fan of Hamilton the and
:04:32. > :04:35.prepare dogs to cats, and so on. Patriotism simply says here is
:04:36. > :04:38.great, come on in, the water is lovely. Patriotism is in this
:04:39. > :04:43.respect are very positive thing, thing that can be sure, joined. It
:04:44. > :04:48.doesn't set barriers but it celebrates our place in the world.
:04:49. > :04:55.-- it can be shared and joined. If that is patriotism, how do we define
:04:56. > :05:00.nationalism? Words are powerful beasts, and this one, nationalism,
:05:01. > :05:05.appears at first glance to be very near synonym for patriotism, and
:05:06. > :05:08.indeed for many the two are completely interchangeable. For
:05:09. > :05:13.Orwell, however, they were very different. When he was writing about
:05:14. > :05:17.nationalism in 1945, it was a time when the impact of aggressive
:05:18. > :05:21.nationalism was of a different order of magnitude than anything we face
:05:22. > :05:26.today, and his definition of nationalism was not only referring
:05:27. > :05:31.to nationhood or attachment a government. Rather, National was in
:05:32. > :05:36.his view the process of thinking one's individuality into a bigger
:05:37. > :05:39.unit, whether a country or a political ideology or a religion. He
:05:40. > :05:45.defined it as the assertion that this unit should be promoted above
:05:46. > :05:50.all else as inherently virtuous, and that which was not that unit was
:05:51. > :05:54.therefore without such virtue. By nationalism and he wrote, "I mean
:05:55. > :05:57.first of all the habit of assuring that human beings can be classified
:05:58. > :06:02.like insects and that whole blocks of millions are tens of millions of
:06:03. > :06:06.people can be confidently labelled good or bad." He continued that
:06:07. > :06:10.nationalism is the habit of identifying oneself with a single
:06:11. > :06:14.nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising
:06:15. > :06:20.no other duty than that which advances its interests. Orwell is
:06:21. > :06:25.describing nationalism as a form of what today we would call identity
:06:26. > :06:32.politics. And it is one of which he is clearly not a fan. It is a state
:06:33. > :06:36.of mind by which definition cannot tolerate plurality. It is a state of
:06:37. > :06:40.mind where one ideology, one method, must take precedence over all else
:06:41. > :06:45.and which demands people support one camp or the other. And if you are
:06:46. > :06:50.unwilling to make that decision then National 'ss will be perfectly happy
:06:51. > :06:53.to make it for you. -- Nationalists will be perfectly happy to make it
:06:54. > :06:57.for you. And treating people like insects to be smeared onto a display
:06:58. > :07:06.board takes the force of a moral imperative. If we go back to Orwell
:07:07. > :07:09.again, he said" as nearly as possible no nationalised Evra Cox,
:07:10. > :07:16.thinks are right about anything except the superiority of his own
:07:17. > :07:23.power unit -- no Nationalist ever talks. No nationalised can conceal
:07:24. > :07:26.his allegiance." Patriotism can be the celebration of random geography,
:07:27. > :07:30.but nationalism is the assertion that your place, your view, your
:07:31. > :07:35.belief, the man's pre-eminence above all else. They are, I suggest, not
:07:36. > :07:41.so much synonyms as mere polar opposites. I want to say something
:07:42. > :07:45.that will I suspect getting into quite a bit of trouble, especially
:07:46. > :07:51.this close to an election, and it is this. Unfortunately, when it comes
:07:52. > :07:57.to nationalism, Orwell has all of us skewered, including myself. Because
:07:58. > :08:00.very few of us, particularly those involved in politics like Tony and
:08:01. > :08:06.myself, can really say we do not exhibit some degree and elements of
:08:07. > :08:10.these characteristics in ourselves. Politicians by our very nature
:08:11. > :08:13.divide into campus. Our camp, we declare, is where all the wisdom,
:08:14. > :08:18.morality, energy and decency resides, and we assert that nothing
:08:19. > :08:22.but perfidy lies in the other. This is the nature of party politics,
:08:23. > :08:28.particularly three weeks out from an election, or three weeks on
:08:29. > :08:32.Thursday, if you're counting. So George kind of got us on that one,
:08:33. > :08:39.but it is not just politicians. Orwell has all of us. We are a
:08:40. > :08:42.tribal species and in our effort to make sense of the world it would
:08:43. > :08:46.simply be easier to draw the boundaries of our own identities
:08:47. > :08:52.with our rejection of the other. And a further uncomfortable truth Orwell
:08:53. > :08:56.hit upon 70 years ago is that for some of us the Nationalist instinct
:08:57. > :09:04.is stronger than for others. To be specific in this instance, I will
:09:05. > :09:09.speak of us Scots. There was an MP who said in a speech to parliament
:09:10. > :09:14.that every Scotsman should be a Scottish nationalist. It was not
:09:15. > :09:21.Alex Salmond but was John Buchan, the author of The 39 Steps, Unionist
:09:22. > :09:28.MPs. He went on to add that if it could be proved a Scottish
:09:29. > :09:31.Parliament were desirable, we should support it. He proved in the early
:09:32. > :09:39.days Unionists to be devolutionist as well. In short, nationalism runs
:09:40. > :09:44.deep, particularly when as often is the case your football and rugby
:09:45. > :09:50.team is getting hammered, and indeed on such occasions I am sorry to have
:09:51. > :09:55.to report that even the most passionate Pro-union Scots may have
:09:56. > :09:59.questioned both the fortunate and parentage or large swathes of the
:10:00. > :10:02.English population. In short, nationalism is part of the Scottish
:10:03. > :10:07.psyche and it would only be hypocritical to deny it. But the
:10:08. > :10:10.challenge laid by Orwell, the challenge, it is how we react? Do we
:10:11. > :10:28.submit before this Nationalist instinct? And
:10:29. > :10:30.dichotomy it demands of us? Or do we follow patriotism, where... And like
:10:31. > :10:34.all great writers the questions posed by Orwell tamers. It seems to
:10:35. > :10:39.me that far from fading overtime this one demands are direct
:10:40. > :10:43.attention now, because whether it is due to the perceived failure of
:10:44. > :10:46.globalisation or the after-shocks of the financial crash, we all know the
:10:47. > :10:53.Nationalist impulse strengthened once again in recent years. In
:10:54. > :10:57.America, Britain, France and all across Europe, we see it, that in
:10:58. > :11:00.order to rise again, others must be put down. That we cannot build a
:11:01. > :11:12.home unless there is a wall around it as well. The line between country
:11:13. > :11:16.and party is blurred, being the vessel by which a nation is made
:11:17. > :11:28.whole. Whether it is Journey to the Mountain of Forever-- whether it is
:11:29. > :11:32.Trump's claim to make America a great again, the Austrian party, the
:11:33. > :11:35.France, each chose a campaign slogan setting themselves up as the saviour
:11:36. > :11:45.of the nation, the culture and the land. And those not of the tribal
:11:46. > :11:50.type, they were portrayed as proponents of progress, threats to
:11:51. > :11:58.nation or betrayers to people. Their arguments were not fully examined or
:11:59. > :12:02.tested. The message carriers were simply othered. It is easier to
:12:03. > :12:08.undermine than engage. But what of nationalism on these shores?
:12:09. > :12:15.the people at the Oval foundation here made it clear to me they booked
:12:16. > :12:23.me before Theresa May called snap general election. In discussing the
:12:24. > :12:26.rise of political nationalism, I want to talk about the situation
:12:27. > :12:33.that I know best, the position that we face in Scotland with regards to
:12:34. > :12:37.this issue. This question of identity and nationalism is one that
:12:38. > :12:40.now dominate our public discourse. It has done not just my pal in
:12:41. > :12:46.politics but will pretty much mind Thyer adult life. -- not just my
:12:47. > :12:53.time in politics but pretty much my entire adult life. It did not start
:12:54. > :12:57.with the current SMP. In the 1980s and 19 90s it was Scottish Labour
:12:58. > :13:03.who carried the flag. Another Scot who's been invited here to give the
:13:04. > :13:08.Orwell lecture, Robin Cook, declared that under Conservative Party
:13:09. > :13:14.government to all intents and purposes Scotland is an occupied
:13:15. > :13:18.country. That sentiment help lead to the birth of a devolved Scottish
:13:19. > :13:22.parliament in 1999. And then the election of the Scottish National
:13:23. > :13:27.Party to government in 2007 put the question of full independent front
:13:28. > :13:31.and centre. In 2014, we famously held after referendum on Scottish
:13:32. > :13:35.independence in which 55% of the population decided to remain within
:13:36. > :13:41.the United Kingdom. Rather than saying the matter settled, we see
:13:42. > :13:46.the issue is pushed back to the fore, with the SNP calling for a
:13:47. > :13:50.second independence referendum as early as next year, before the net
:13:51. > :13:54.kingdom leaves the European Union. If you had not heard much from
:13:55. > :13:57.Scotland these past few years, apart from the question of the
:13:58. > :14:01.Constitution, that is because very little else has had a hearing. And
:14:02. > :14:08.because these questions remain dominant. When I see colleagues and
:14:09. > :14:13.commentators down here wrestle with Brexit questions of, how
:14:14. > :14:16.post-referendum politics challenges traditional party structure and
:14:17. > :14:20.dominates voting intentions I like to think that we in Scotland got
:14:21. > :14:25.there before you. I guess the question is how do we apply Orwell's
:14:26. > :14:29.lessons about nationalism and pitches and two others in Scotland.
:14:30. > :14:33.As someone who's been closely engaged in one side of the
:14:34. > :14:37.constitutional battle these last years, a am aware of the need to
:14:38. > :14:40.tread carefully. It would be easy to suggest that Scotland is divided
:14:41. > :14:45.between nationalists in one hand and patriots on the other, to say that
:14:46. > :14:51.there were 1.6 million nationalists in 2014 who demand we reject all
:14:52. > :14:55.else for their own ideology, and on the other hand there were 2 million
:14:56. > :15:00.patriots who voted no to independence and choose the right
:15:01. > :15:04.way. But, I fear that would be people into exactly the nationalist
:15:05. > :15:14.trap that Orwell warned about 70 years ago, where we falsely separate
:15:15. > :15:21.people, like insects, into whether you're on the truth is far more
:15:22. > :15:24.complex. As I've already set out, the nationalist instinct described
:15:25. > :15:28.by Orwell can be applied to all sides of the political divide in
:15:29. > :15:33.Scotland, including Mike Boone. They also believe that most people in
:15:34. > :15:42.Scotland on both sides of that squad -- including my own. I did not agree
:15:43. > :15:48.with the supporters of independence in 2014 and I still do not now. But,
:15:49. > :15:51.if you believe that the vast majority of those that supported
:15:52. > :15:54.independence did so because they believe it was the best thing for
:15:55. > :15:59.Scotland and I will never condemn them for doing so. I will stand up
:16:00. > :16:05.to any member of Matthews Goodbody who does. However, caveats aside,
:16:06. > :16:09.the truth is the nationalist politics identified by Orwell. -- I
:16:10. > :16:17.will stand up to any member of my party who does. Has become a key
:16:18. > :16:21.part of political practice in Scotland. It is doomed pursued quite
:16:22. > :16:26.deliberately said that many people who do not subscribe to the
:16:27. > :16:35.so-called good side of the Altman feel voiceless and hopeless. Once
:16:36. > :16:39.again, Orwell was the first. Examining the nationalist mindset in
:16:40. > :16:46.1945, Orwell hit upon three common trends. Firstly, obsession, no
:16:47. > :16:50.nationalists, he wrote, ever thinks all talks all rights of anything
:16:51. > :16:56.else except the superiority of his own power union, he will show great
:16:57. > :17:00.sensitiveness about such things at the corrects display of flags, the
:17:01. > :17:09.order in which different countries and named. Secondly, he identified
:17:10. > :17:14.instability, the nationalist fervour remains constant when the object of
:17:15. > :17:20.his or her obsession may change. Thirdly, indifference to reality,
:17:21. > :17:25.the nationalist will not just of the negative matters affecting his own
:17:26. > :17:29.side, road Orwell, he has a remarkable capacity for not even
:17:30. > :17:36.hearing about them in the first place. I have to say that the those
:17:37. > :17:40.of us in Scotland, many of us, at least, it all sounds remarkably
:17:41. > :17:47.familiar. Obsession, tick. We've not had an awful lot else from the SNP
:17:48. > :17:53.in the last few years. Sensitivity about the size of headlines, tick. I
:17:54. > :18:03.think no further than they SNP MP who claim national industry and
:18:04. > :18:09.claimed BBC bias about the size of Scotland on the BBC weather map.
:18:10. > :18:13.Instability, the further remaining constable of the object changes.
:18:14. > :18:19.When Nicola Sturgeon join the SNP 1986, she was attracted to a party
:18:20. > :18:22.whose policy was to withdraw from the European Community, she now
:18:23. > :18:26.claims that leaving the EU is the reason that Scotland needs to
:18:27. > :18:29.revisit independence. As we had yesterday, she will not promise to
:18:30. > :18:34.take an independent Scotland straight back into the youth. Then
:18:35. > :18:40.there is the point about superiority, and it all brings the
:18:41. > :18:44.truth. In Scotland, political nationalism has introduced the idea
:18:45. > :18:48.that one side of the constitutional divide can be the authentic voice of
:18:49. > :18:55.the people of Scotland and only it has the right to be heard. The other
:18:56. > :19:00.voices are, by their very nature, illegitimate and phoney. As Billy
:19:01. > :19:05.Connolly said, I love Scotland but I hate the way the nationalists think
:19:06. > :19:09.they own the place. To repeat, I do not suggest it is only the Scottish
:19:10. > :19:12.National Party that is guilty of this trend, or political parties in
:19:13. > :19:16.Scotland are elsewhere in the UK have been at fault at time, claiming
:19:17. > :19:20.to have a monopoly on the national mood, as if there was one political
:19:21. > :19:25.party which can claim the collapse of the nation. But I would suggest,
:19:26. > :19:29.that the modern SNP has made this technique its own. If I can give you
:19:30. > :19:34.a few examples in recent weeks that may not have made it down here. Back
:19:35. > :19:38.in March, the Prime Minister set out her opposition to the second
:19:39. > :19:42.referendum on independence. Responding, Alex Salmond declared
:19:43. > :19:48.that no self-respecting Scot would accept a Westminster Prime Minister
:19:49. > :19:52.undermining Scottish nationhood. The implication being that to agree with
:19:53. > :19:56.the prime Minster on this issue would be to somehow concede that you
:19:57. > :20:00.were a lesser type of Scott, of pig last week talking about the local
:20:01. > :20:06.council elections Nicola Sturgeon said the following, Labour let
:20:07. > :20:11.Scotland down by losing so many seats to the Tories. In other words,
:20:12. > :20:15.Labour had not just built be attracted to the Electric, they had
:20:16. > :20:20.actually shamed the nation by allowing the hated Tories to win
:20:21. > :20:24.seats. Or, looking at it in another way, Scottish voters couldn't vote
:20:25. > :20:30.for one of the main political parties without it being an Scottish
:20:31. > :20:38.and someone else's fault. Or in a similar vein at the SNP party
:20:39. > :20:43.conference, the economy minister summoned Terry summed up a debate on
:20:44. > :20:47.Brexit with the following comment, this debate comes down to Scotland
:20:48. > :20:51.that is the Tories in Scotland is going to win. As a member of
:20:52. > :20:55.government who had just seen over half a million of his fellow
:20:56. > :21:02.countrymen and women vote Conservative at a Scottish election,
:21:03. > :21:07.is that half million not Scotland is well? I'm Scottish, in fact I've
:21:08. > :21:13.never lived or worked outside the nation of my birth. A seed to no man
:21:14. > :21:17.in backing blue in any round. Apparently I had to choose between
:21:18. > :21:22.being Scottish and being conservative is according to Mr
:21:23. > :21:32.Brown I cannot be both. What do you think about immigrants? Can we leave
:21:33. > :21:42.the questions because there will be a question session after this. The
:21:43. > :21:46.implication hangs in the air, we are other, we deserve to be shouted
:21:47. > :21:51.down. The media has often assisted in the narrative. After the council
:21:52. > :21:56.results one tabloid declared, the back, that the Tories were now
:21:57. > :22:02.preparing to invade Scotland once more. -- one tabloid declared, they
:22:03. > :22:05.are back. Think about that, people putting themselves forward at an
:22:06. > :22:08.election to gain support of their neighbours in a democratic vote
:22:09. > :22:11.because they want the local communities in which they live are
:22:12. > :22:17.now being referred to as some sort of invading force. This technique
:22:18. > :22:20.has, for a long time been effective and if people feel bullied and
:22:21. > :22:30.hectored in supporting the SNP than I do not blame them. The Juncker
:22:31. > :22:40.Plan works. When I became leader said Wood has change the culture of
:22:41. > :22:46.the party. -- the othering works. I wanted to make the culture, saying I
:22:47. > :22:54.believe in X and if you believe in X you are a Tory as well. The question
:22:55. > :22:58.that is handing over others in this coming election is whether that is
:22:59. > :23:03.about to change. I very much hope it will. After ten years of the SNP
:23:04. > :23:08.government, there is an undoubted sense that people have rather had
:23:09. > :23:12.enough. They include parents have begun to notice that while these
:23:13. > :23:15.constitutional contortions of capital hugely occupied, the
:23:16. > :23:20.children's education has been getting steadily worse and worse,
:23:21. > :23:29.and that perhaps that is the greatest rebuke against nationalism.
:23:30. > :23:34.It does not actually make the changes, any good government will do
:23:35. > :23:37.that. My hope is that in Scotland decades long obsessed with the
:23:38. > :23:42.constitution will come to an end and that we can start using the enormous
:23:43. > :23:46.powers of Parliament to improve the actual fabric of our country. The
:23:47. > :23:54.lesson that I hope is also heeded right across the UK, as well, as we
:23:55. > :23:58.the EU. To conclude, the difference between nationalism and patriotism
:23:59. > :24:03.is not a question of degree, all well is correct about that.
:24:04. > :24:06.Nationalism is about power and its obsessive pursuit and the
:24:07. > :24:11.dichotomised nation of population into the authentic and the
:24:12. > :24:18.inauthentic. Nationalism, Orwell wrote, is power hunger, temperate by
:24:19. > :24:23.self perception. Amen to that. Yet, here in the second decade of the
:24:24. > :24:26.21st-century, despite his efforts nationalism is still confused with
:24:27. > :24:30.patriotism and that is because too often the political movements that
:24:31. > :24:34.would put fully insured that that's the case. Showing that we must
:24:35. > :24:38.remain vigilant against nationalism's seductive simplicity
:24:39. > :24:44.is and always be ready to embrace the complex and difficult and the
:24:45. > :24:48.other. Like Albert Camus, I love my country too much to be a
:24:49. > :24:53.nationalist. To Orwell, it is nationalism not patriotism that is
:24:54. > :24:55.the last refuge of the scoundrel. Like all well I say we should not
:24:56. > :25:10.confuse the two. Thank you APPLAUSE -- like George Orwell I say we
:25:11. > :25:13.should not confuse the two.