:00:12. > :00:23.Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood faces questions here from the audience.
:00:24. > :00:36.Welcome to Election Questions 2017. Good evening. For the second time
:00:37. > :00:44.during this campaign, the UK has been struck by a terror attack.
:00:45. > :00:50.Tonight, days before your vote, the leader of Plaid Cymru faces
:00:51. > :01:02.questions from this audience. They are a mix of supporters from the
:01:03. > :01:06.main parties and undecided voters. So please welcome the leader of
:01:07. > :01:12.Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. APPLAUSE
:01:13. > :01:21.And by the way, you can join in tonight's abate online the hashtag
:01:22. > :01:28.is #BBCDebate. Our first question is from Gail Jones. Leaving. What are
:01:29. > :01:32.the three main things that you think can be done to combat terrorism.
:01:33. > :01:39.Kamei first of all say that I would like to place on record my
:01:40. > :01:43.condolences with everyone who is affected by this as well as what
:01:44. > :01:47.happened in Manchester last week. It is absolutely terrible that young
:01:48. > :01:51.people in particular on a night out are targeted in this way, and I and
:01:52. > :01:56.a stand that many people will be fearful about this happening again.
:01:57. > :02:01.It is very difficult, especially with the incident that happened last
:02:02. > :02:05.night, to see exactly how things like that can be prevented in the
:02:06. > :02:12.future. I have said a number of times that we should try to tackle
:02:13. > :02:17.the root cause of this. What is it? Why do we not fully understand what
:02:18. > :02:26.it is that makes someone commit an act like this? Not individual
:02:27. > :02:29.isolated incidents, there are patterns now, not just in the UK but
:02:30. > :02:32.throughout Europe as well. So there is something going on, something
:02:33. > :02:36.that is making people do this, and unless we understand the root cause
:02:37. > :02:39.and try to tackle the root cause, then I fear that people will
:02:40. > :02:45.continue to be motivated to commit these acts. So we need to try and
:02:46. > :02:51.understand what it is is motivating people. Then we need to try and make
:02:52. > :02:54.sure that people are trained up properly to challenge those
:02:55. > :02:58.ideologies. I used to work as a probation officer, and I wouldn't
:02:59. > :03:05.know where to start, if I'm honest, challenging somebody who was quoting
:03:06. > :03:09.from say the Koran in order to try to justify the certain beliefs. We
:03:10. > :03:14.need to make sure people are properly trained, people from those
:03:15. > :03:17.amenities themselves, peer-to-peer challenging of those ideologies, but
:03:18. > :03:24.we haven't even begun to do any of that yet. What we have done yet is
:03:25. > :03:27.cut youth services, cut probation services, the kind of community
:03:28. > :03:31.services that are in a strong position to challenge those beliefs.
:03:32. > :03:34.The third thing I would do is invest properly in public services.
:03:35. > :03:36.It is the emergency services who run into situations of danger
:03:37. > :03:39.when everyone else is running away, and there have been cuts
:03:40. > :03:44.to the police, to the health services in addition to the youth
:03:45. > :03:48.services and social services that I've already said.
:03:49. > :03:53.People today understandably are all paying tribute
:03:54. > :03:55.to our emergency services and public sector workers, and I would
:03:56. > :04:03.But the real way that we can show that we value those people
:04:04. > :04:05.is to make sure that they've got the resources they need
:04:06. > :04:10.Whether they are teachers in schools, whether they are police
:04:11. > :04:11.or emergency services, whether they are A
:04:12. > :04:19.They have all been working under very difficult conditions
:04:20. > :04:24.because of the Tory cuts, and proper resource of our public
:04:25. > :04:30.services is the best way to show how much we value those public servants.
:04:31. > :04:33.And Theresa May in Downing Street today said four things need to be
:04:34. > :04:35.done, including going tougher on Internet companies
:04:36. > :04:40.Well, she said today that we've been too tolerant of extremism,
:04:41. > :04:48.If she has been Home Secretary for six years prior
:04:49. > :04:52.to being Prime Minister, since 2010 she has been
:04:53. > :04:55.in a position to do something about this, and if we have been too
:04:56. > :04:57.soft on extremists, as she claims, then does
:04:58. > :05:04.she need to take some responsibility for that?
:05:05. > :05:06.Let's take the gentleman in black there.
:05:07. > :05:09.How much of an impact do you think British foreign policy such
:05:10. > :05:12.as interventions in Libya and the Iraq war have contributed
:05:13. > :05:15.to acts such as what we have seen in the last couple of weeks?
:05:16. > :05:18.I think it's a fact to say that we are less safe
:05:19. > :05:22.since the invasion of Iraq and the intervention in Afghanistan.
:05:23. > :05:26.I'm not convinced that there is an absolute direct link,
:05:27. > :05:31.because there have been events, atrocities, in countries that have
:05:32. > :05:34.not participated in those countries in the same way as the UK has.
:05:35. > :05:40.But what it does do is it provides those propaganda points to those,
:05:41. > :05:43.the terrorists who want to recruit into their cause to point
:05:44. > :05:49.We don't have the moral high ground after what happened,
:05:50. > :05:53.But it's much more complicated, I think, than to link
:05:54. > :05:57.There are a number of different issues going on here,
:05:58. > :06:01.and what we must do, all of us, is to be able to talk
:06:02. > :06:06.openly about what they possibly could be, put them all on the table,
:06:07. > :06:13.and work out what it is that is causing people to act in this way
:06:14. > :06:17.and try to nip it in the bud at source rather than to try to deal
:06:18. > :06:21.The Investigatory Powers Bill, for example, in Parliament.
:06:22. > :06:26.Because that was about mass surveillance, and we oppose
:06:27. > :06:34.We would support targeted surveillance, and we would support
:06:35. > :06:35.our intelligence services with resources to be able
:06:36. > :06:42.If you are watching everyone, mistakes will happen and people
:06:43. > :06:48.But we don't know where the threat is coming from always, do we?
:06:49. > :06:55.No, and that's why security services, intelligence services,
:06:56. > :06:57.are really important, but also if you're funding
:06:58. > :06:59.properly your youth services and your teachers, and you're
:07:00. > :07:02.training your teachers properly to look out for signs,
:07:03. > :07:05.instead of cutting those services, then you've got a better chance
:07:06. > :07:09.OK, let's take a few points from the audience, then.
:07:10. > :07:11.The gentleman there, who's been waiting a long time,
:07:12. > :07:15.Your first point about tackling the root cause of the problem.
:07:16. > :07:17.What do you actually feel the root cause is?
:07:18. > :07:20.OK, just hold that one, and we'll take another one, thank you.
:07:21. > :07:24.You happened to mention that she voted against surveillance,
:07:25. > :07:26.but I just feel that if you're not doing anything wrong,
:07:27. > :07:30.what is the problem with being watched?
:07:31. > :07:33.Well, I think that we have civil liberties, and we have to take
:07:34. > :07:43.Obviously security is the most important job of a government.
:07:44. > :07:46.But also we have to protect our civil liberties as well.
:07:47. > :07:50.We have to have certain freedoms, and I think we just need to be very,
:07:51. > :07:53.very careful before we give up some of the freedoms that we have.
:07:54. > :07:57.I don't think there's one single answer that question.
:07:58. > :07:59.I think there are possibly a number of different causes,
:08:00. > :08:04.but unless we can have an honest and open debate about that,
:08:05. > :08:07.for example when the question of links to foreign policy was put
:08:08. > :08:12.out on the table, there was a political outcry to that.
:08:13. > :08:14.Well, that's not helpful in terms of trying to get
:08:15. > :08:20.I don't think that is the single root cause.
:08:21. > :08:22.I think that marginalisation, alienation, racism, all play a part,
:08:23. > :08:28.There are clearly a number of different multiple factors
:08:29. > :08:32.contributing towards people taking these actions.
:08:33. > :08:38.They are young people, they may be impressionable.
:08:39. > :08:41.There may be things that we can do in terms of that dark
:08:42. > :08:45.But I'm absolutely clear, unless we can shine a light
:08:46. > :08:48.on the problem and allow open discussion about it,
:08:49. > :08:51.then it's going to be very difficult to actually
:08:52. > :08:57.In school, I was always told you had to respect other people,
:08:58. > :08:58.respect other people's property, respect other people's views
:08:59. > :09:03.I feel the politicians don't help, and I thought that last week
:09:04. > :09:07.was an example of that when you descended into bickering,
:09:08. > :09:09.shouting louder, pointing fingers at each other,
:09:10. > :09:13.not respecting each other's point of view.
:09:14. > :09:16.Isn't it about time you became more measured and more respectful of each
:09:17. > :09:29.It is quite difficult sometimes in these debate scenarios
:09:30. > :09:31.to try to get your point across when the presenter doesn't
:09:32. > :09:35.allow you time and things like that, so I think that is possibly why
:09:36. > :09:43.I mean, we do need to show respect to each other when we have
:09:44. > :09:45.political discussion, and I think as politicians we have
:09:46. > :09:51.to take responsibility as well for the language that we use,
:09:52. > :09:53.and I'm particularly concerned with some of the statements that
:09:54. > :09:57.I hear coming from some politicians, especially when we talk around
:09:58. > :10:01.difficult subjects like immigration, that some of them use dog whistles
:10:02. > :10:03.to try and whip people's emotions up, and that doesn't help
:10:04. > :10:08.Lots of hands up, but I'm afraid we have to go
:10:09. > :10:10.to the second question now, which comes from Dave Webb.
:10:11. > :10:16.If you're honest and realistic, how much influence do you feel a few
:10:17. > :10:21.Plaid MPs can have on the terms of any Brexit negotiations?
:10:22. > :10:27.Well, what I'm clear about is if there are no Plaid Cymru
:10:28. > :10:29.MPs in Westminster after this election, then the chance
:10:30. > :10:32.of Wales's voice being heard at all is pretty much nil,
:10:33. > :10:42.The only way that Wales's needs are going to be on the agenda
:10:43. > :10:45.as we leave the European Union, the only way our farming industry
:10:46. > :10:48.is going to be taken account of, the only way that the ?680 million
:10:49. > :10:50.that we currently get as redistributed wealth
:10:51. > :10:57.from the European Union to Wales are the only way we can get those
:10:58. > :11:00.guarantees is if we've got some people there in Westminster fighting
:11:01. > :11:05.Theresa May has a very clear idea as to where she wants to go,
:11:06. > :11:12.She wants either a very hard Brexit, or she's prepared to walk away
:11:13. > :11:16.Either of those scenarios would be bad news for Wales.
:11:17. > :11:18.Plaid Cymru has put jobs at the heart of everything
:11:19. > :11:23.we do and say in terms of the Brexit negotiations.
:11:24. > :11:25.We have 200,000 jobs that are reliant on tariff free access
:11:26. > :11:33.We have to have Plaid Cymru MPs there to defend those jobs,
:11:34. > :11:36.but not only defend what we've got, we've also got to create those
:11:37. > :11:42.conditions, and have the powers to improve the economy as well.
:11:43. > :11:45.But you say in your manifesto we will secure the money promised
:11:46. > :11:48.to Wales by the Leave campaign, which is ?350 million a week,
:11:49. > :11:54.And any government doesn't really acknowledge the Leave
:11:55. > :12:01.So what would you do if you didn't get that money?
:12:02. > :12:03.You're stamping your feet but you have no power.
:12:04. > :12:05.Well, we are asking for the mandate to make that point.
:12:06. > :12:12.That is money that we have had coming to us because some
:12:13. > :12:14.of our communities are some of the poorest parts
:12:15. > :12:20.We've got a government in Wales that is already talking
:12:21. > :12:23.about cutting Communities First money, and not replacing that
:12:24. > :12:24.anti-poverty programme with anything else.
:12:25. > :12:26.Our communities can't afford to lose this money.
:12:27. > :12:30.We have to see continued redistribution of wealth
:12:31. > :12:32.to those communities, or otherwise we're going
:12:33. > :12:43.It is a scandal that wages in Wales are 10% behind the UK average...
:12:44. > :12:45.Lots of hands up, thank you very much.
:12:46. > :12:49.Oh, the lady in the back first with the specs,
:12:50. > :12:54.At the moment I understand that Wales gains about ?245 million more
:12:55. > :12:59.Where do you envisage that kind of money coming from if we don't get
:13:00. > :13:11.Well, it has to come from Westminster, that's the point.
:13:12. > :13:13.During the campaign, the Leave campaign and prominent
:13:14. > :13:16.Tories in the Leave campaign said that we wouldn't be a penny worse
:13:17. > :13:19.off in Wales if we voted to leave the European Union.
:13:20. > :13:22.It's up to us to hold them to account for that,
:13:23. > :13:25.and I'm asking people in Wales to give Plaid Cymru a mandate
:13:26. > :13:27.by electing the maximum number of Plaid Cymru MPs to go
:13:28. > :13:30.to Westminster and make exactly that point.
:13:31. > :13:33.The gentleman in the front here, thank you.
:13:34. > :13:36.Are you delusional, really, about your stature
:13:37. > :13:39.in where we are as a party, or where you are
:13:40. > :13:46.You've only got 11 MPs, 12 AMs and one controlled council in Wales.
:13:47. > :13:49.How do you foresee that you are going to be getting this?
:13:50. > :13:54.I'm not quite sure where you got your numbers from there,
:13:55. > :13:59.It's very clear that the SNP represents Scotland.
:14:00. > :14:02.They've got a very strong voice and they make sure that Scotland's
:14:03. > :14:04.voice is heard because people in Scotland vote in big
:14:05. > :14:13.The only way we will get Wales heard to the same extent is if we elect
:14:14. > :14:20.OK, the gentleman in the back there, thank you.
:14:21. > :14:23.Why do you think that Plaid Cymru haven't got the traction in Wales
:14:24. > :14:30.We're a different country, we're different party,
:14:31. > :14:32.we're at different stages of our devolution journey.
:14:33. > :14:35.I'm very hopeful that we can get to the point where the SNP
:14:36. > :14:38.are in terms of running the government and getting to that
:14:39. > :14:41.point where we can have a proper discussion about where we want to go
:14:42. > :14:47.But we are in a different place, and the priority for Wales right now
:14:48. > :14:50.is making sure that we get those economic powers to turn
:14:51. > :14:56.We get told all the time that we are too poor and too small
:14:57. > :14:59.to even be able to dream of being an independent country,
:15:00. > :15:02.yet those same politicians that say that, those Labour and Conservative
:15:03. > :15:05.politicians, oppose the economic levers that we should have in Wales
:15:06. > :15:08.that we could use to turn around that situation.
:15:09. > :15:12.So we need those powers before we can move, really.
:15:13. > :15:17.Both Plaid Cymru and Welsh Labour seem very similar to the electorate,
:15:18. > :15:22.What is it that Plaid Cymru can deliver for Wales that Labour
:15:23. > :15:23.in Westminster cannot deliver for us?
:15:24. > :15:33.And the lady there with the red hair, you had your hand up.
:15:34. > :15:37.A few minutes ago, Leanne, you were stating that
:15:38. > :15:42.you expected a certain amount of money from Westminster.
:15:43. > :15:45.You quickly moved on to devolution and how you felt that was the way
:15:46. > :15:47.forward, comparing us to the SNP in Scotland.
:15:48. > :15:55.Are you expecting Wales's economy to be lying at the feet
:15:56. > :15:58.of the MPs in Westminster, or do you believe that Wales can
:15:59. > :16:01.stand on its own two feet and move forward in the future?
:16:02. > :16:04.I believe we can stand on our own two feet,
:16:05. > :16:07.but in order to do that, we need the powers to make
:16:08. > :16:14.At the moment, we don't have powers over taxation.
:16:15. > :16:17.We may get powers over income tax, but they would be in a very narrow
:16:18. > :16:20.field, and there are plenty of other taxation powers and other
:16:21. > :16:22.economic levers, powers over renewable energy,
:16:23. > :16:26.for example, that we could put to good use.
:16:27. > :16:34.The gentleman there with the specs, thank you.
:16:35. > :16:37.There are all kinds of politicians with all kinds of agendas as far
:16:38. > :16:41.Can you promise us that the best interests of Wales will be the only
:16:42. > :16:44.thing on your agenda in the coming years after this election?
:16:45. > :16:51.Well, Plaid Cymru is set up and designed to advocate for Wales,
:16:52. > :16:53.but I would say as well I'm interested in international
:16:54. > :17:00.And I want Wales to take its part in the world.
:17:01. > :17:03.I want us to be able to cooperate with citizens in other
:17:04. > :17:08.I think part of the problems that we have, some of the root
:17:09. > :17:10.of the problems that we have at the moment is there seems
:17:11. > :17:13.to be some of superiority complex on behalf of some.
:17:14. > :17:15.We are better than those other people in other parts
:17:16. > :17:22.That's not helpful in terms of negotiation.
:17:23. > :17:25.We should approach these negotiations like adults, as equals,
:17:26. > :17:28.and try to get the best deal for people in all parts
:17:29. > :17:36.But within the British context, what I fear is that we have been
:17:37. > :17:44.Gibraltar has had more attention than Wales has had since June,
:17:45. > :17:47.and that situation will continue unless we have a strong
:17:48. > :17:49.voice defending Wales in Westminster after June the 8th.
:17:50. > :17:51.Now, then, let's go on to question number three, which tonight
:17:52. > :17:59.Do you believe that most electors would be willing to have a small
:18:00. > :18:02.increase in taxation if this means safeguarding vital services?
:18:03. > :18:11.It would be good to have proper time to have a debate about that.
:18:12. > :18:15.The difficulty with a snap election is that lots of issues are crammed
:18:16. > :18:19.But there are real crises ahead if we don't try to address
:18:20. > :18:24.We all know about the crisis in care.
:18:25. > :18:27.But just on tax, because it is a very simple question.
:18:28. > :18:33.Do you agree that may be, do you think...
:18:34. > :18:36.Public services need to be paid for through taxation,
:18:37. > :18:40.And would you be willing to put up taxes to fund that?
:18:41. > :18:43.Yes, for those who can afford to pay the most, we would.
:18:44. > :18:46.It's not on the manifesto, though, is it?
:18:47. > :18:48.Well, we would also be open to considering other increases
:18:49. > :18:51.in taxes to pay for our public services, but in a British context
:18:52. > :18:54.looking at British tax rates, we don't have income tax devolved
:18:55. > :19:04.Would you put income tax up when you have the levers that are coming?
:19:05. > :19:06.We are open to discussion about that and we would like time
:19:07. > :19:10.But in principle would you put income tax up for higher earners
:19:11. > :19:17.I think public services need investment.
:19:18. > :19:20.If we are going to invest in public services, they need to be paid
:19:21. > :19:24.for and the only fair way to do that is through taxation.
:19:25. > :19:30.For the additional rate income tax, people who currently pay 45%,
:19:31. > :19:32.we would like to see that go up to 50%.
:19:33. > :19:34.That would bring in, in a British context,
:19:35. > :19:38.?3 billion extra to spend on public services, but when income tax comes
:19:39. > :19:41.to Wales, we would be having a different conversation.
:19:42. > :19:43.It is not in the manifesto, though, is it?
:19:44. > :19:45.Because we are not in a Welsh Assembly election.
:19:46. > :19:49.That is why it is not in the manifesto.
:19:50. > :19:53.But it's a UK general election and in principle people want to know
:19:54. > :19:56.is Plaid Cymru a tax-raising party or not?
:19:57. > :19:59.What we have got in our manifesto is the principle that the people
:20:00. > :20:02.who earn more pay more and that is why we are raising
:20:03. > :20:09.Would you like to see a rise in corporation tax?
:20:10. > :20:12.I would like to see the ability to apply different rates
:20:13. > :20:17.of corporation tax depending on what it is you want to do.
:20:18. > :20:21.I think corporation tax could give us the possibility to be used,
:20:22. > :20:23.to be raised or reduced, to incentivise job creation
:20:24. > :20:28.and I would like the Assembly to have full powers over corporation
:20:29. > :20:31.tax to be able to have different rates in different parts of Wales
:20:32. > :20:34.or in different sectors depending where you want to
:20:35. > :20:40.Don't you feel instead of raising taxation that we should
:20:41. > :20:47.I think we have to do both but I believe in the principle
:20:48. > :20:51.of well funded public services, the social security safety net,
:20:52. > :20:55.a paid for and free health service, good quality education,
:20:56. > :20:59.decent pensions so that our pensioners don't find
:21:00. > :21:03.themselves in poverty, and benefits to enable people
:21:04. > :21:07.who have disabilities to fulfil as much of a role
:21:08. > :21:14.If we want all those things, then we need to be able to pay
:21:15. > :21:17.for them through taxation but also we can reprioritise the way we spend
:21:18. > :21:22.I wouldn't spend ?200 billion on replacing Trident for example.
:21:23. > :21:26.I would prioritise that cash for public services.
:21:27. > :21:35.We are paying taxes, we are funding it and for us
:21:36. > :21:38.to raise it because we need to find that extra cash, why don't
:21:39. > :21:44.We are about to spend ?5 billion on renovating
:21:45. > :21:47.the palaces of Westminster, another ?400 million
:21:48. > :21:51.renovating Buckingham Palace, one of the richest families
:21:52. > :21:55.in the world, and we as taxpayers are paying that bill.
:21:56. > :21:58.Of course we can reorganise our priorities.
:21:59. > :22:02.You make an absolutely perfectly good point but we also need to think
:22:03. > :22:06.about how we long-term fund our public services and
:22:07. > :22:12.The gentleman there and then the gentleman there,
:22:13. > :22:21.With corporation tax I think there should be thresholds.
:22:22. > :22:23.For example if a company earns X amount of net profit,
:22:24. > :22:26.then that is where the threshold should come in.
:22:27. > :22:30.I would like to have a Welsh policy for corporation tax and if we look
:22:31. > :22:32.at the potential opportunities that we have as we leave
:22:33. > :22:34.the European Union, then Welsh control over corporation tax
:22:35. > :22:38.and the ability to vary it along the lines you suggest is something
:22:39. > :22:42.Thank you very much, we are going to move on now
:22:43. > :22:44.to the next question which comes from Jack Knight.
:22:45. > :22:47.Your party campaigned to remain in the EU but you also want
:22:48. > :22:53.Why are some unions better than others?
:22:54. > :22:58.I want Wales to be an equal partner in any union and the reason
:22:59. > :23:03.that we supported the Remain campaign is that we wanted Wales
:23:04. > :23:10.to take its place in the European family of nations as an equal.
:23:11. > :23:13.Now, regardless of whether or not we are in the European Union
:23:14. > :23:16.or whether we are outside of it there are going to be
:23:17. > :23:19.reasons to cooperate across the European Union,
:23:20. > :23:28.There may well be a referendum on independence for
:23:29. > :23:36.If they decide to leave the UK, the UK will be no more,
:23:37. > :23:39.but there will still need to be cooperation across the borders
:23:40. > :23:42.between England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland
:23:43. > :23:49.I think the same will happen with the European Union as well.
:23:50. > :23:51.We are not in the independence threshold for Wales yet.
:23:52. > :23:59.You have often said now is not the time, it's a very different
:24:00. > :24:03.It is now on page two of your manifesto so it is clearly
:24:04. > :24:07.It has always been one of our party aims, hasn't it?
:24:08. > :24:09.It has always been on the front page.
:24:10. > :24:10.When do you see independence for Wales?
:24:11. > :24:13.It's impossible to put a timescale on it.
:24:14. > :24:18.We have said we will move as far and as fast as people
:24:19. > :24:22.We will always be putting the case for more powers for Wales,
:24:23. > :24:25.for asking Wales to have more of a say over the decisions
:24:26. > :24:28.In principle we believe the decisions about Wales should be
:24:29. > :24:32.made in Wales and we have always advocated that principle.
:24:33. > :24:35.If it's a very hard Brexit, would that be the time to trigger
:24:36. > :24:42.We need to look very carefully at what that final deal looks like.
:24:43. > :24:46.If that final deal is going to be very bad for Wales, then we need
:24:47. > :24:49.to consider all options at that time.
:24:50. > :24:51.Would you push for independence at that point?
:24:52. > :24:54.Well, other things could change as well.
:24:55. > :24:56.I have already mentioned the possibility of Scotland leaving
:24:57. > :25:01.Whatever happens is people here in Wales should
:25:02. > :25:07.We are not going to take people further than they want
:25:08. > :25:12.We have already had two referendums on our national institutions
:25:13. > :25:15.here in Wales and Plaid Cymru has always said that it is the people
:25:16. > :25:18.who will drive the debate on this in Wales and that is a matter
:25:19. > :25:23.Just very quickly, the gentleman here, thank you.
:25:24. > :25:27.Without funding from the European Union or funding
:25:28. > :25:30.from Westminster, how on earth is Wales ever going to stand
:25:31. > :25:39.Do you know what, every other independent nation in the world
:25:40. > :25:44.manages to raise the money that it spends on public services.
:25:45. > :25:47.We haven't got the population to do that?
:25:48. > :25:50.There are many countries in the world that are independent
:25:51. > :25:54.and have smaller population numbers than Wales does.
:25:55. > :25:57.Many countries are in that situation.
:25:58. > :26:00.I believe that people in Wales are no more inferior
:26:01. > :26:07.That is all you have to do, have enough good jobs,
:26:08. > :26:09.pay enough good salaries with the right tax rates
:26:10. > :26:13.so you have a tax pot that you can afford to fund your public services.
:26:14. > :26:16.It is as simple as that, there is no reason why we can't get
:26:17. > :26:20.Thank you very much, let's take a point from
:26:21. > :26:23.Mine is a follow-up from the gentleman's question.
:26:24. > :26:26.If independence was granted, what do you think you could do to help Wales
:26:27. > :26:32.Well, we have to get to that point where we can balance our books
:26:33. > :26:35.so for me it is all about jobs and the economy.
:26:36. > :26:37.I mentioned earlier that wages in Wales are 10% behind
:26:38. > :26:46.We have been able to attract European funds because of the high
:26:47. > :26:54.The union and this current situation that we are in is not helping us.
:26:55. > :26:58.We are not able to get out of the poverty that we are in with
:26:59. > :27:04.the constrained powers that we have, so we must insist on improving
:27:05. > :27:07.the powers that we get in our national Assembly
:27:08. > :27:09.so that we can improve our economic performance.
:27:10. > :27:12.We are into the last minute of the programme,
:27:13. > :27:17.You seem to be advocating a policy now of independence
:27:18. > :27:20.from the UK because of Brexit, which was voted on by the majority
:27:21. > :27:23.There we are and that's the final point.
:27:24. > :27:26.It was and we accept the result, but if the final deal
:27:27. > :27:29.is a bad one for Wales, and I am pretty sure you would not
:27:30. > :27:33.want a bad deal for Wales where 200,000 jobs were at risk,
:27:34. > :27:37.where we were at risk of losing our farming industry,
:27:38. > :27:40.then I am pretty sure that you would want us to make
:27:41. > :27:43.a big noise about that and try to reject it for Wales.
:27:44. > :27:46.So in that context, then I think we should look at all options
:27:47. > :27:51.But let's hope we can get a good deal for Wales.
:27:52. > :27:53.That is what Plaid Cymru will be fighting for.
:27:54. > :27:58.Sorry, still hands up, but thank you ever so much.
:27:59. > :28:03.Thank you to Leanne Wood and thanks to our audience here in Swansea.
:28:04. > :28:06.Remember, you can continue to have your say on social media
:28:07. > :28:13.From all of us here, nos da, good night.