:00:12. > :00:16.This is Free Speech, your chance to have your say about what matters to
:00:16. > :00:20.you - live on BBC Three. # Such a good feeling.
:00:20. > :00:30.# This feeling. # I can't stop myself feeling...
:00:30. > :00:44.
:00:44. > :00:47.(APPLAUSE). Good evening. Nice to see you.
:00:47. > :00:50.Thanks for joining us, and welcome to Free Speech. I'm Jake Humphrety.
:00:50. > :00:55.Tonight we're live from Campsfield Market in Manchester as part of the
:00:55. > :01:05.RE: Think Festival. Lovely to see you all. This evening, we're
:01:05. > :01:08.excited too because we have a new set and a new face. Please welcome
:01:08. > :01:11.to the show Tinea Taylor, who tells me she's excited about reading all
:01:11. > :01:14.the messages you at home have been sending direct to our lovely, shiny
:01:14. > :01:18.new screen. How do our messages reach us? A variety of ways.
:01:18. > :01:28.Facebook, Twitter and online. Before we go any further, let's
:01:28. > :01:28.
:01:28. > :01:33.meet our panel. First of all, she graduated from Grange Hill through
:01:33. > :01:42.Extras to an international career in stand-up. Please welcome
:01:42. > :01:45.comedian and campaigner for rights of the disabled, Francesca Martinez.
:01:45. > :01:48.Next, he's the National Chairman of Conservative Future - so he's the
:01:48. > :01:53.man that David Cameron should be looking over his shoulder at - Ben
:01:53. > :01:57.Howlett. (BOOING).
:01:57. > :02:00.Oh, Ben, you have some convincing to do this evening. Alongside Ben,
:02:00. > :02:06.just down the road, actually, Liberal Democrat MP for Manchester
:02:06. > :02:08.Withington, John Leech. And finally, as the author of
:02:08. > :02:12.Jilted Generation: How Britain Bankrupted Its Youth, he literally
:02:12. > :02:18.wrote the book on young people and debt - Shiv Malik.
:02:18. > :02:21.(APPLAUSE). Lovely to see you all. Thank you
:02:21. > :02:24.very much for being here this evening. But remember, tonight is
:02:24. > :02:28.also about you. This is the only TV show with the Power Bar, and if
:02:28. > :02:31.you're on Twitter, you can power it up by letting us know what you
:02:31. > :02:35.think of the panel. Just use #Yes or #No followed by the first name
:02:35. > :02:41.of one of our panellists. Instead of just shouting at the TV, start
:02:41. > :02:45.changing it by tweeting the Power Bar. First, young people in debt,
:02:45. > :02:48.and the results of an exclusive Free Speech poll. Almost half of
:02:48. > :02:51.16-25-year-olds in our survey say of unt
:02:51. > :02:55.of money they currently owe. Nearly half of young people in debt say it
:02:55. > :02:58.will take at least ten years before they are in the clear, though the
:02:58. > :03:04.good news is that 42% of those we surveyed say they don't have any
:03:04. > :03:11.debt. So time to meet Michaela, who's stayed debt-free, and Daniel,
:03:11. > :03:21.who hasn't. They're with us tonight and this is their story.
:03:21. > :03:23.
:03:23. > :03:26.I've never been in debt at all. I'm terrified of being in debt. I was
:03:26. > :03:29.first offered credit when I was 18, and I was offered a �250 credit
:03:30. > :03:32.card and a �2,000 overdraft. I started working when I was 16 and
:03:33. > :03:36.never went to university, so I've never had a student loan or
:03:36. > :03:40.anything like that. When I got the �2,000 overdraft, I was very happy
:03:40. > :03:44.because at the particular time, I couldn't afford to pay my rent. It
:03:44. > :03:48.seems like it's going to help you. It all seems friendly and good.
:03:48. > :03:49.However, you're going to have to pay that off at some time in the
:03:49. > :03:54.future. In the past, instead of borrowing
:03:54. > :03:57.money for the heating, I used to wrap up with a quilt around me. At
:03:57. > :04:04.times I couldn't afford food, my mum and grandmother would empty
:04:04. > :04:07.their cupboards of their tins and bring them around.
:04:07. > :04:17.I am currently in about five grand in debt - credit card, overdraft
:04:17. > :04:20.
:04:20. > :04:23.and student loan. I met my partner when I was 19. He
:04:23. > :04:26.moved in shortly after, and we saved up together rather than
:04:26. > :04:30.spending the extra money. A few years later, we had my daughter
:04:30. > :04:33.Hannah. Having that debt affects me quite a
:04:33. > :04:40.lot. I am depressed and finding it quite hard to just do everyday
:04:40. > :04:44.things. There is a lot more pressure having
:04:44. > :04:47.a daughter to go out and buy the latest things. I would rather go
:04:47. > :04:49.out and buy second hand as long as we're happy.
:04:49. > :04:53.Maybe that's the point that really matters. Daniel and Michaela,
:04:53. > :04:56.everybody. Thank you so much for helping us. I love the hair, by the
:04:56. > :04:59.way. You're going to kick start the debate tonight. What's your
:04:59. > :05:06.question? My question is, does the panel think that credit is too
:05:06. > :05:09.readily available for young people? Straight to you.
:05:09. > :05:12.I think the issue of debt is really worrying, you know? The fact that
:05:12. > :05:18.20% of UK adults are in debt or struggling with debt is just
:05:18. > :05:21.terrible. I think also, the Government uses debt as a form of
:05:21. > :05:24.control, and if you keep people struggling to pay the basics,
:05:24. > :05:34.they're less likely to have time to worry about what they're doing as
:05:34. > :05:36.
:05:36. > :05:39.their part. I also think it's to do with inequality. The UK's one of
:05:39. > :05:47.the most wealthy countries in the world, and unequal countries have a
:05:47. > :05:51.higher incidence of debt, which I think is interesting. I would like
:05:51. > :05:54.to widen the picture and say, why should we think about why the UK is
:05:54. > :05:57.such an unequal country, why 10% of people own 50% of wealth, which I
:05:57. > :06:07.think is staggering, and we should look at creating a country where
:06:07. > :06:22.
:06:22. > :06:24.people can function on their wages without having to get debt.
:06:24. > :06:27.Unfortunately, consumerism functions on us buying stuff. When
:06:27. > :06:29.times are hard, there is disposable income and debt is used to paper
:06:29. > :06:32.over the cracks. Unfortunately, it's unsustainable and consumerism
:06:32. > :06:36.is not only ruining the environment, but it's ruining our well-being, so
:06:36. > :06:46.I would like to rethink our system and get a fairer, more equal system
:06:46. > :06:48.
:06:48. > :06:52.in the UK. (APPLAUSE).
:06:52. > :06:57.Ben, I saw you nodding your head there. A fairer, more equal system
:06:57. > :07:00.- that's what she wants. I'm not going to scout around the
:07:00. > :07:02.point. Debt is an evil thing. I work in recruitment and I've seen
:07:02. > :07:05.ever since Lehman's went bust people going through and losing
:07:05. > :07:08.their houses, people that have got themselves into a mammoth amount of
:07:08. > :07:14.debt, people that have lost their families, people that have lost
:07:14. > :07:24.their wives because of debt. Stress levels are increasing. One person
:07:24. > :07:26.
:07:27. > :07:33.every 62 seconds goes bankrupt. That is horrific situation. We're
:07:33. > :07:36.not going to beat around the bush on this. We really sort of need to
:07:36. > :07:39.empathise with these people as well who are really suffering at the
:07:39. > :07:43.moment. People like Daniel just now I appreciate where he's coming from.
:07:43. > :07:48.I have a student debt myself. I am paying it off at the moment. We
:07:48. > :07:52.need to be supporting people. We need to get down to the root causes
:07:52. > :07:55.of the debt and looking at what the real problems are. The main problem
:07:55. > :07:58.is a lack of responsibility, and when you've got a Government that
:07:58. > :08:02.has been racking up debts - Labour has racked up debts over the years
:08:02. > :08:05.- �120 million a day is being spent on interest alone - God knows how
:08:05. > :08:08.many doctors and nurses that's taking out. We need to act
:08:08. > :08:12.responsibly to reduce down that debt so we can then say to the
:08:12. > :08:21.public, look, now you also need the pay down the debt and say to the
:08:21. > :08:24.banks as well, you're acting responsibly. It's now your turn to
:08:24. > :08:27.act responsibly and start... Are the current Government doing
:08:27. > :08:31.enough to create that kind of climate? The Government has
:08:31. > :08:34.inherited a massive problem... they doing enough to... I hope
:08:34. > :08:37.they're doing enough. They can only start by doing what they have done,
:08:38. > :08:40.which is to reduce the deficit down by 25% over the last two years
:08:41. > :08:45.which then increases the amount of tax revenue going back into the
:08:45. > :08:49.Treasury so it can start paying off the debt. To be honest with you,
:08:49. > :08:56.you have ended up with a Government which is at the moment only slowing
:08:56. > :08:59.the incline of the amount of debt. It's going to take a seriously long
:08:59. > :09:01.time to sort out this problem. Tinea, I'm sure people have plenty
:09:01. > :09:05.of thoughts at home. Have you any messages for us already?
:09:05. > :09:08.I have one here from Catherine who says it's the pressure of society
:09:08. > :09:13.to have a nice house, nice cars, nice clothes, et cetera, that leads
:09:13. > :09:16.us into debt. The question initially was, John, is debt too
:09:16. > :09:19.readily available? People at home are talking about the fact there is
:09:19. > :09:24.pressure on people to have nice things too. The two go hand in
:09:24. > :09:27.hand? It was too readily available. I'm not sure it is now because it's
:09:27. > :09:30.becoming more and more difficult to get a hold of credit. Part of the
:09:30. > :09:37.problem is that regardless of your ability to pay the debt back,
:09:37. > :09:40.people were being lent more and more money. I remember when I first
:09:40. > :09:50.got a credit card probably 20-odd years ago. I had a credit card
:09:50. > :09:54.
:09:54. > :09:57.limit of �400. Every time I bought something that cost more than a
:09:57. > :10:01.couple of hundred quid, they increased my credit limits, and the
:10:01. > :10:04.fact that I paid it off at the end of the month was irrelevant. They
:10:04. > :10:07.wanted for me to have the opportunity to borrow more money. I
:10:07. > :10:10.think part of the problem now is that a lot of the time people
:10:10. > :10:13.aren't being able to get anymore credit on their credit cards.
:10:13. > :10:16.They're not being able to extend their overdrafts. That's why we
:10:16. > :10:18.have a real problem with pay-day loans now because people have
:10:18. > :10:21.exhausted the easy credit through their banks, through their credit
:10:21. > :10:24.cards, and now they're turning to even more sinister forms of
:10:24. > :10:27.borrowing where they really, really can't afford to pay it back.
:10:27. > :10:30.We'll come on to pay-day loans in a minute. I have a startling fact
:10:30. > :10:34.talking about the fact that debt isn't readily available for people
:10:34. > :10:38.anymore - three-quarters of 18 to 24-year-olds are in debt. They have
:10:38. > :10:41.credit. I think part of the problem is that
:10:41. > :10:44.when - we were talking before about tuition fees, when you're
:10:44. > :10:52.encouraging people to go into debt by saying, "You've got to have -
:10:52. > :10:55.tuition fees. You've got to start off your working life in debt,"
:10:55. > :10:59.it's not that surprising that young people think, well, I'm going to be
:10:59. > :11:05.in debt anyway, so I might as well borrow as much as I possibly can
:11:05. > :11:09.and have as good of a lifestyle as I possibly can.
:11:09. > :11:19.Debt in itself isn't a bad thing or credit, so we use it, for example,
:11:19. > :11:25.
:11:25. > :11:28.for mortgages, to buy a home. We use it to purchase cars and things
:11:28. > :11:31.like that the question is, is it affordable? What we have done over
:11:31. > :11:34.the last ten to 15 years is heaped more and more debt onto young
:11:34. > :11:38.people, so for very necessary things. So education - we've seen
:11:38. > :11:40.tuition fees go up. It's a form of debt which people are going to pay
:11:40. > :11:43.out throughout their lives. Now tuition fees are �9,000.
:11:43. > :11:46.Effectively it's acting like tax on young people throughout most of
:11:46. > :11:49.their working lives. Housing is another big issue. House prices in
:11:49. > :11:57.places where there is work are through the roof, so people can't
:11:57. > :12:00.afford to buy there. Rents have gone up, and so increasingly, in a
:12:00. > :12:03.sense, people have less disposable income, so they're finding it more
:12:03. > :12:06.and more difficult to pay for the everyday things. When it comes to
:12:06. > :12:09.the world of work, young people are interning for free for months on
:12:09. > :12:13.end. I know people who have done it for years for profitable companies.
:12:13. > :12:16.This is the thing. And this is what's creating it. When you add
:12:16. > :12:19.those three things together, you end up with young people in massive
:12:19. > :12:21.amounts of debt, desperate to pay, either borrowing from mum and dad,
:12:21. > :12:24.if they're rich enough, or if you're poor, you're scrabbling for
:12:24. > :12:27.some kind of credit to keep yourself afloat. The fact is this
:12:27. > :12:30.is impacting on the economy at large. It means people are finding
:12:30. > :12:34.it very difficult to set up homes and relationships and families and
:12:34. > :12:37.actually buy some basic things in their lives, and worst of all, they
:12:37. > :12:40.don't take risks, so they're bad consumers in the end. They also
:12:40. > :12:42.don't start businesses and do all the things the Government want them
:12:42. > :12:45.to do. It's creating the perfect storm in
:12:45. > :12:49.your view. Right. Let's quickly hear from the viewers at home.
:12:49. > :12:53.Time for the Power Bar. If we can just bring up the Power Bar. Panel,
:12:53. > :12:58.this is what viewers think about what you've said so far. If we can
:12:58. > :13:02.fire it up, please. Off it goes again - nice.
:13:02. > :13:06.Shiv clearly in the lead. Francesca Martinez is just behind you. I
:13:06. > :13:10.think people are agreeing with you about your points on inequality.
:13:10. > :13:15.Ben, a bit of work to do. You can get there. Right. The gentleman in
:13:15. > :13:17.the black tie with the blue shirt Francesca, I completely agree with
:13:17. > :13:24.you - there are lots of inequalities in society, but I
:13:24. > :13:27.believe the greatest inequality in society is in education. With
:13:27. > :13:29.consultation of young people in my area from about 16 different
:13:29. > :13:37.secondary schools, I have learnt that citizenship education differs
:13:37. > :13:43.greatly from school to school. Some schools do the education they're
:13:44. > :13:46.supposed to do in an entire year in one day. Some schools balance it
:13:46. > :13:49.out over time. I think citizenship education is the most important
:13:49. > :13:56.thing in making sure people understand how to manage their debt,
:13:56. > :14:01.people understand how to do things like apply for a job, get a CV.
:14:01. > :14:04.That's basically... Education - managing debt is the
:14:04. > :14:07.most important thing to you. The lady next to you.
:14:07. > :14:10.Once again, I am going to disagree with you, Ben because if the
:14:10. > :14:13.Government is acting as a role model, they're not as to how to
:14:13. > :14:19.manage things because at the moment we're seeing borrowing costs have
:14:19. > :14:28.risen. You have actually not told the truth by saying their debt is
:14:28. > :14:31.good and not as manageable because it's not. They've actually outspent
:14:31. > :14:33.what they expected to, and they're actually treating the economy like
:14:33. > :14:37.it's a play toy, and that's not fair.
:14:37. > :14:41.A really quick answer to that, Ben. I - you won't be surprised I'll
:14:41. > :14:51.disagree with you on that. As I said earlier on, it's a long-term
:14:51. > :14:51.
:14:51. > :14:54.difficulty in terms of the economy. I don't think it's a play toy at
:14:54. > :14:57.all. There is nothing more serious than to get the economy up and
:14:57. > :15:00.running. That's the idea of us parties coming together to solve
:15:00. > :15:02.these problems. Why isn't it working? Why has the Government had
:15:02. > :15:07.so many U-turns and overspent still despite the fact they're claiming
:15:07. > :15:11.to be plugging a deficit that we don't even know about? The deficit
:15:11. > :15:14.is huge. Yeah, I understand that. Since I was doing my A-levels,
:15:14. > :15:18.Gordon Brown was extending the deficit up - at my stage when I was
:15:18. > :15:22.in my A-levels... I understand that but the Government isn't doing
:15:22. > :15:25.anything about it despite the claim they were going to. That was what
:15:25. > :15:27.their manifesto was all about. That hasn't worked. The Government is
:15:27. > :15:32.keeping interest rates really low, so it increases confidence in the
:15:32. > :15:38.market. Has it worked? It gives more opportunity with jobs. Has it
:15:38. > :15:48.worked? 9,000 more job, but actually, has it worked? It's going
:15:48. > :15:52.
:15:52. > :15:56.to work. It's going to take a long time. No answer.! (APPLAUSE). I'm
:15:56. > :15:59.out of a job. I want to speak to Jack, because we are talking about
:15:59. > :16:02.debt and credit and loans and you have experience and it's not always
:16:02. > :16:06.a bad thing? Definitely not a bad thing at all,
:16:06. > :16:09.really. All you need to bear in mind is you need to watch your
:16:09. > :16:17.outgoings and incomings and make sure you keep your money down and
:16:17. > :16:19.obviously pay your debts off. Remarkably, despite having an awful
:16:19. > :16:22.accident in Afghanistan while serving for your country, you see
:16:22. > :16:26.yourself as lucky getting on the housing ladder because that gave
:16:26. > :16:36.you compensation and it's not available to many young people?
:16:36. > :16:40.
:16:40. > :16:44.No, it's not, especially at 22. It's not mostly available to people.
:16:44. > :16:49.I had a good deposit to put down when I got my compensation and I
:16:49. > :16:51.still need to pay off the mortgage now.
:16:51. > :16:54.Thank you for sharing your story with us. Tinea?
:16:55. > :16:58.We have a mixture of opinions. One here saying the Government do use
:16:58. > :17:05.debt as a form of control. Sam here, I use credit cards to launch my
:17:05. > :17:09.business. I got to the last �40 maximum and turned it around.
:17:09. > :17:19.Credit is good for startups. Ryan says, "I'm 16. I have a job. It's
:17:19. > :17:20.
:17:20. > :17:23.just excuses." OK. Surprisingly different views there. Another
:17:23. > :17:27.talking point when it comes to sorting out debt is pay-day loans.
:17:27. > :17:32.If you've never had one, they give you a few extra quid until pay day,
:17:32. > :17:36.but here's an example from one company.
:17:36. > :17:39.I took out �100 and it would cost me �29.99 and I have 28 days to
:17:39. > :17:49.repay, but if you don't and ignore all the warnings for three months,
:17:49. > :17:51.
:17:51. > :17:54.I will owe them this much. �4,500. Indeed! The company in question is
:17:54. > :17:56.not a member of the Consumer Finance Association, but the
:17:56. > :17:59.association did tell us that repayments can distort widely when
:17:59. > :18:06.applied to small loans over short periods, but they'll always tell
:18:06. > :18:08.customers the total cost of the credit. I'm sure people here have
:18:08. > :18:15.taken out these loans before. Jason, are you one?
:18:15. > :18:18.Yep. Tell us about your experience.
:18:18. > :18:22.It all started off through employment. I was 21. Because I was
:18:22. > :18:25.under 22, I was on the minimum wage which was �4.83 an hour and I was
:18:25. > :18:34.struggling to pay and I started to get the loans just to keep myself
:18:34. > :18:43.afloat, because my wage wasn't getting me by. Eventually I got so
:18:43. > :18:52.deep that I couldn't pay any of them off. I couldn't live
:18:52. > :18:56.whatsoever. I was literally running into the ground. I applied for one.
:18:56. > :18:59.It was - I can't mention the company - but I got �100. My
:18:59. > :19:02.account was overdrawn. I didn't get to spend it. They wanted over one
:19:02. > :19:05.grand back from that. Take us inside your head. How much pressure
:19:05. > :19:08.was on you? It's hard to explain. No-one will understand unless
:19:08. > :19:11.they've been in the position. reaction to the message we just got
:19:11. > :19:17.from online saying it's just greed and people who want things they
:19:17. > :19:21.can't have? It's not greed. I was 21. I was on a minimum wage. I was
:19:21. > :19:31.working 35 hours a week and I was pulling out �133 a week and my rent
:19:31. > :19:31.
:19:31. > :19:34.was �84 a week. Do the maths. felt you had no other option?
:19:34. > :19:39.and I didn't have other family members to ask for support. Jack,
:19:39. > :19:47.was your story? I've used the loans in the past and I was able to pay
:19:47. > :19:50.it back, so it was OK, but it's definitely not a good thing. It's
:19:50. > :19:56.like what John was saying before about not being able to get credit.
:19:56. > :19:59.I can't get a credit card. Why did you take it out? I needed it at the
:19:59. > :20:07.time. It worked for me because I could pay it back, but I wouldn't
:20:07. > :20:09.advise anyone to use it. Lots of hands there. The lady there.
:20:09. > :20:18.message, "Pay-day loans shouldn't be allowed. It's really quite
:20:18. > :20:21.wrong." That's Alice. The reaction from in here. Like the gentleman
:20:21. > :20:24.said down here, we all know the Government knows that pay-day loans
:20:24. > :20:31.are wrong. Morally they're wrong, so why are they letting businesses
:20:31. > :20:36.or people behind that to push them? You see them all over the high
:20:36. > :20:46.street. They're everywhere. We know it's just the rich people basically
:20:46. > :20:51.
:20:51. > :20:54.who are taking advantage. (APPLAUSE). Why are the Government
:20:54. > :20:57.allowing this? It's common sense. How can you justify that? John,
:20:57. > :21:00.give us an answer on behalf of the coalition? The loan companies are
:21:01. > :21:04.the pawnbrokers of the 21st century. It's exactly what people used to do
:21:04. > :21:07.when they used to take jewellery and get money for it and go and buy
:21:07. > :21:10.it back when they could afford, but it's so much more dangerous,
:21:10. > :21:20.because unfortunately the vast majority of people who are using
:21:20. > :21:23.
:21:23. > :21:26.pay-day loans aren't actually using it for an emergency. The guy at the
:21:26. > :21:29.front, was using that loan in the right way, but it's becoming part
:21:29. > :21:37.of day-to-day activity for a lot of people, because they can't get
:21:37. > :21:40.credit through the normal channels and the banks and cards any more.
:21:40. > :21:43.Until people actually realise the impact of taking out pay-day loans,
:21:43. > :21:50.because it can never be a good idea if it's simply to pay the day-to-
:21:50. > :21:52.day bills. If it's to buy something specific until your money comes in,
:21:52. > :21:56.they are acceptable, but unfortunately people are doing it
:21:56. > :21:59.to keep themselves or pay bills and that can never be a good thing.
:21:59. > :22:05.can't blame people. If people need to eat they will do anything to get
:22:05. > :22:08.that money. If you yourself as a Government know it's wrong that
:22:08. > :22:10.there's people behind the desk who are pushing this money forward,
:22:10. > :22:20.it's criminal. Why aren't you stopping this from happening? It's
:22:20. > :22:22.day-time robbery. I think the Government is wrong for
:22:22. > :22:27.having a minimum wage, because companies who are employing people
:22:27. > :22:32.are taking advantage and using that as a method of payment. It's the
:22:32. > :22:36.maximum. I was 21. I had no choice about the wage I received. That was
:22:36. > :22:39.the maximum wage I could receive and I was getting paid it. I
:22:39. > :22:45.couldn't survive off it and I had my own tenancy. How is that
:22:45. > :22:48.possible? I couldn't get tax credits.
:22:48. > :22:51.I fundamentally disagree with what the guy has said, because actually
:22:51. > :22:58.if we didn't have a minimum wage all that would end up happening was
:22:58. > :23:06.lower wages than the current ones now. There's a far stronger
:23:06. > :23:09.argument to increase the minimum wage. Fine. Thank you. Tinea.
:23:09. > :23:15.One message on that, who agrees with the loans. David says, "What's
:23:15. > :23:18.wrong? It's clear as day in the adverts." We are going to have to
:23:18. > :23:20.leave that question, but thank you very much for getting involved and
:23:20. > :23:24.everyone who shared their stories about taking them out and dealing
:23:24. > :23:28.with debt. Thank you for all of the points online. If you want your
:23:28. > :23:38.view read out you have to make it first and this is how you get in
:23:38. > :23:49.
:23:49. > :23:52.touch: There's been an incredible experience watching the Paralympics.
:23:52. > :24:00.The cheers have rung out night after night, apart from when this
:24:00. > :24:08.happened. Medals will be presented by the right honourable George
:24:08. > :24:17.Osborne MP, Chancellor. (BOOING).
:24:17. > :24:20.Awkward watching it. Not a sound you expect to hear during a
:24:20. > :24:23.ceremony and we have a question to get us started from Hannah. Where
:24:23. > :24:27.are you? Is there a point that it's bad manners rather than showing
:24:27. > :24:37.public opinion? Ben was booed when we started the programme so he
:24:37. > :24:40.
:24:40. > :24:48.should answer it. Booing in a sense is sort of bad manners, but we all
:24:48. > :24:51.accept that, because that's why we do it. We think we're mocking
:24:51. > :24:54.someone. Whether it's wrong in this instance for George Osborne to be
:24:54. > :25:00.booed, I don't think so. I think he's a political figure and the
:25:00. > :25:03.question is what is he doing? What he's doing in terms of being the
:25:03. > :25:05.Chancellor and setting out a whole swathe of cuts, especially on
:25:05. > :25:13.disabled communities in various different forms, is clearly
:25:13. > :25:18.upsetting a lot of people. If he turns up to a venue like that, he
:25:18. > :25:22.should expect to be booed, in a sense. Being British, the other
:25:22. > :25:25.thing we don't do is clearly - we haven't had a revolution for 500
:25:25. > :25:27.years, but we like a bit of pantomime politics, so that's
:25:27. > :25:31.perhaps our way of getting that revolution going. I would rather
:25:31. > :25:34.have booing than anything else. Ben, how did you feel at the start?
:25:34. > :25:38.Is it a personal affront, or do you think you are representing
:25:38. > :25:42.something that people don't like? I was reaching for the tissues! No,
:25:42. > :25:45.it's pantomime politics, I do agree. I wouldn't like to be the
:25:45. > :25:51.Chancellor in a situation where you have ended up with that massive
:25:51. > :25:56.great debt that he's going to end up having to reduce down. The
:25:56. > :25:59.booing starts again. The Chancellor's in a very difficult
:25:59. > :26:02.situation. He's turned up to that. Is he the right person to be
:26:02. > :26:05.handing out medals to Paralympians? I don't necessarily think it was,
:26:05. > :26:08.so that may have impacted adversely upon the successes of the athletes
:26:08. > :26:18.and we should be shouting and praising them at that moment, not
:26:18. > :26:20.
:26:20. > :26:29.talking about politicians. (APPLAUSE). People at home enjoy
:26:29. > :26:35.the use of the words, "pantomime politics." Are you surprised that
:26:35. > :26:38.George Osborne decided to put himself in that position? Judging
:26:38. > :26:48.by his expression, I think he was thinking, "Why did I take my
:26:48. > :26:51.adviser's advice and agree to do this?" It was pretty obvious he
:26:51. > :26:56.would be booed. In terms of whether or not it's bad manners, yes, it is,
:26:56. > :26:58.but I think it's also fair game for politicians. Politicians are there
:26:58. > :27:08.to be criticised or supported. Sometimes we are flavour of the
:27:08. > :27:17.month, sometimes we're the baddie of the month. We have just got to
:27:17. > :27:21.accept that. I do think you have got to ask the question why on
:27:21. > :27:22.earth did he think it was a good idea to be giving out the medals on
:27:22. > :27:26.that occasion? We'll ask that to Fran.
:27:26. > :27:29.He clearly had an off day! I think it's really important to celebrate
:27:29. > :27:39.the Paralympic achievement, but this is a man who is a multi-
:27:39. > :27:46.
:27:46. > :27:56.millionaire and he's about to obliterate the welfare state. There
:27:56. > :27:57.
:27:57. > :28:00.comes a point! With disability, often people can't complain and
:28:00. > :28:03.they can't make their voices heard, so I think they need to take any
:28:03. > :28:13.opportunity. Would you have done it and booed?
:28:13. > :28:13.
:28:13. > :28:18.I would have done more than booed. I would have thrown some tomatoes.
:28:18. > :28:21.Over to the audience. We live in a society where people are not
:28:21. > :28:24.listened to. All the big people think they can overpower the little
:28:24. > :28:28.people so booing was a way of expressing themselves and if we're
:28:28. > :28:31.not allowed to protest because you say it turns violent, like lots of
:28:31. > :28:35.the governments and the police say it has turned violent when it
:28:35. > :28:42.hasn't, that's the only way to express yourself.
:28:42. > :28:46.You think booing is almost all we have in some ways? Yeah.
:28:46. > :28:56.This isn't a joke. People - John Leech because what you have done,
:28:56. > :28:57.
:28:57. > :29:00.it's your party's fault. I put the blame on you. Some people in this
:29:00. > :29:06.country don't think they have a voice. Some of us don't have a
:29:06. > :29:10.voice. You have now got a fixed- term Parliament. It's not a joke or
:29:10. > :29:14.funny. People are struggling in this country because what you have
:29:14. > :29:17.done. You are the human shield. It's your fault. You think long and
:29:17. > :29:19.hard about what you have done to people in this country. Look what
:29:20. > :29:29.you have done to us. It's your fault.
:29:30. > :29:30.
:29:30. > :29:35.(APPLAUSE). I hate to use the word "pantomime"
:29:35. > :29:37.and getting blamed for that. I would like to take issue with what
:29:37. > :29:47.Francesca said because she said we're about to dismantle the
:29:47. > :29:48.
:29:48. > :29:55.welfare state. Actually, benefits were the only - the only thing that
:29:55. > :29:58.actually went up by inflation. Lots of people - low-paid workers - have
:29:58. > :30:02.had no pay rise for two or three years now, yet pensions and
:30:02. > :30:04.benefits all went up in line with inflation as a direct result of the
:30:04. > :30:07.Liberal Democrats being in Government. That's not true. That's
:30:07. > :30:13.not all benefits. That's mainly pensions it applied to. But your
:30:13. > :30:16.Government is proposing to cut DLA by 20%. This has a... We will
:30:16. > :30:19.discuss this in detail in just a moment. Half a million people are
:30:19. > :30:21.going to lose their benefit. will talk about that we are going
:30:21. > :30:24.to have a discussion about disability benefits. Let's hold
:30:24. > :30:30.those points. Let's stick with the booing topic at the moment, then
:30:30. > :30:33.we'll move on. I was going to ask - you said before about how they have
:30:33. > :30:39.to pay off this big debt. When are you going to stop blaming Labour
:30:39. > :30:47.and realise things have gotten worse under the coalition? A quick
:30:47. > :30:51.answer to that one? As I keep saying it's a very, very long
:30:51. > :30:54.period of time you're going to have to pay back this debt. There is no
:30:54. > :30:56.short answer. It's going to take a long, long time. I think the
:30:56. > :30:59.gentleman has to take responsibility and stop blaming
:30:59. > :31:03.previous governments when things have gotten worse under the
:31:03. > :31:06.coalition. I would like to take issue with that. The first time I
:31:06. > :31:09.stood up at Prime Minister's Questions in 2005, I asked a
:31:09. > :31:12.question of Tony Blair, who had been in Government since 1997, so
:31:12. > :31:15.he had been in Government for eight years, and his answer was, it was
:31:15. > :31:23.all the last Tory Government's fault, so I don't think it's fair
:31:23. > :31:27.to say, when are you going to stop blaming the previous Government?
:31:27. > :31:30.The fact is the country is in a serious financials mess partly as a
:31:30. > :31:33.result of international factors, partly as a result of bankers, but
:31:33. > :31:36.partly as a result of the economic policies of the previous Government,
:31:36. > :31:46.and it's simply not true to say that we have made the situation
:31:46. > :31:46.
:31:46. > :31:50.worse. The deficit has been reduced. When the coalition Government came
:31:50. > :31:53.into power, we were spending �4 for every �3 that was coming in, and
:31:53. > :31:56.it's a long, long process to get rid of the deficit and then start
:31:56. > :32:00.paying off the debt because by the end of this Parliament, not one
:32:00. > :32:05.single penny will have been paid back of the debts that we were
:32:05. > :32:12.there in 2010. It will simply be about getting the deficit down, so
:32:12. > :32:15.the debt will still be rising. said we were actually better off -
:32:15. > :32:18.or worse off as a country in a sense, and that's nothing to do
:32:18. > :32:22.with this Government, but what is a double-dip recession if not to be
:32:22. > :32:24.heaped at your door? It's not like every other country is in a double-
:32:24. > :32:30.dip recession. We're almost uniquely in that position. We're in
:32:30. > :32:34.a terrible state. The eurozone is about to go back into recession.
:32:34. > :32:38.Just about not what we are, which is in one - and for a number of
:32:38. > :32:42.months. We'll leave it there. We're going
:32:42. > :32:46.to move on. We were in a significantly worse position to
:32:46. > :32:49.start off with. OK, John, thank you. Tinea. I know lot of people are
:32:49. > :32:52.agreeing with the booing, but Tom says people should be celebrating
:32:52. > :32:55.the athletes. "We have all year around to tell the politicians what
:32:55. > :32:59.we think of them." Thank you very much. Thank you for getting in
:32:59. > :33:02.touch online as well. We also want to thank people for getting on our
:33:02. > :33:05.Facebook pages, Erica, Edmund, Jim and other always got in touch and
:33:05. > :33:09.said George Osborne was booed because people were angry about the
:33:09. > :33:17.Government's policy on disability benefits. We have already had a
:33:18. > :33:21.discussion about that. Let's move on and talk about that now. We're
:33:21. > :33:24.in the middle of one of the biggest welfare shake-ups in 60 years, and
:33:24. > :33:26.the Government says half of the people who receive disability
:33:26. > :33:36.benefits won't be eligible for new benefits. This, according to the
:33:36. > :33:37.
:33:37. > :33:40.Prime Minister, is what's going on. In a world of fierce
:33:40. > :33:43.competitiveness, a world when no- one is owed a living, we need to
:33:43. > :33:46.have a welfare system that the country can properly afford. When
:33:46. > :33:48.you know, as I do, how much help genuinely disabled people need,
:33:48. > :33:51.then you can't just ignore this when the system isn't working
:33:51. > :33:54.properly, so we're bringing in a system that is fairer and simpler
:33:54. > :34:03.and, crucially, we're introducing proper objective assessments so the
:34:03. > :34:12.money goes to people who truly need it. I would create a fair system
:34:12. > :34:16.that would test people on their individual circumstances. I think
:34:16. > :34:21.people could get reassessed to see if anybody could get extra benefits.
:34:21. > :34:24.I would attempt to change the way that care is brought to the home.
:34:24. > :34:31.would not cut the disability allowance because people like my
:34:31. > :34:34.brother need it to fend for themselves. I would change the
:34:34. > :34:38.benefit system so it is according to each one's abilities or needs. I
:34:38. > :34:41.don't know if it's a backward state of the country instead of take care
:34:41. > :34:44.of people that are less fortunate. At the end of all of this there
:34:44. > :34:54.will continue to be generous disability benefits, and quite
:34:54. > :35:00.
:35:00. > :35:05.right too. So do people think those benefits are generous? As you heard,
:35:05. > :35:08.lots there. We know our panel are fired up about this and so are the
:35:08. > :35:11.audience. Let's go straight into the audience and Candace has a
:35:11. > :35:13.question for us. Why does the Government think it is acceptable
:35:13. > :35:16.to cut disability benefits? We'll get the reaction from the
:35:16. > :35:19.Government in just a moment. But first of all, Francesca, give us
:35:19. > :35:23.some background on this. Well, it's a very scary time for disabled
:35:23. > :35:33.people because these benefits - the DLA and ESA - they have tiny fall
:35:33. > :35:35.
:35:35. > :35:37.rates of 0.5 and 0.3 which tells you how genuine most claimants are.
:35:37. > :35:42.The Government is claiming ESA criteria so many serious conditions
:35:42. > :35:45.are no longer credible. So you can have terminal cancer, you can have
:35:45. > :35:55.had a stroke, you can be paralysed from the chest down, and you can be
:35:55. > :35:59.
:35:59. > :36:02.set to lose your benefit. I think this is an incredibly cynical
:36:02. > :36:09.attack on the most vulnerable in society, people who don't have a
:36:09. > :36:12.voice. I also want to ask us, why are we making these cuts? We're
:36:12. > :36:15.told we're in a recession. Why did the recession happen? Because the
:36:15. > :36:24.banks had overspent. What happened? We bailed them out to the tune of
:36:24. > :36:34.�850 billion. In 2010, bankers' bonuses in London totalled �14
:36:34. > :36:34.
:36:34. > :36:44.billion more than in individual benefits. This is morally
:36:44. > :36:46.
:36:46. > :36:49.unacceptable. (APPLAUSE). The primary problem - I think
:36:49. > :36:53.everyone here knows it - is this coalition represents the elite and
:36:53. > :36:58.the wealthy. They keep the profit but they want to share the deficit
:36:58. > :37:07.with everybody. Ben, do you understand that kind of
:37:07. > :37:10.anger and frustration? I do understand that anger and
:37:10. > :37:13.frustration, and I've spoken to Francesca about this earlier on. I
:37:13. > :37:16.give you my personal story on this. My mum's disabled, and I've seen
:37:16. > :37:21.her over a series of years - probably watching this now, bless
:37:21. > :37:24.her - I have seen her for a series of years degenerate. She gets the
:37:24. > :37:28.Disability Living Allowance, and now she'll have to be going through
:37:28. > :37:31.the reassessment programme herself. I am not rich, by the way. I wish I
:37:31. > :37:34.was, but I'm not, and certainly, my parents aren't, and my mum
:37:34. > :37:38.certainly isn't rich, but what the Government is doing, and I hope
:37:38. > :37:40.that will be seen as the outcome out of all of this, is people like
:37:40. > :37:43.my mum, people like Francesca, will actually receive hopefully more
:37:43. > :37:52.support as a result of the money being allocated away from people
:37:52. > :37:55.that haven't been reassessed. The Disability Living Allowance was
:37:55. > :38:03.created in 1992, and it hasn't been ever reassessed since then until
:38:03. > :38:08.2008 when Labour introduced the new ESA scheme. People's circumstances
:38:08. > :38:11.have changed in that time. People don't necessarily need that support.
:38:11. > :38:14.Some people do need that support. People need more of that support.
:38:14. > :38:18.People like my mum, people like Francesca will continue to receive
:38:18. > :38:28.that support. I think the money should be redistributed from those
:38:28. > :38:36.
:38:36. > :38:38.people that don't need it to those that really do. But I - why aren't
:38:38. > :38:42.the Government bringing in tax refrom instead? Because documents
:38:42. > :38:45.estimate that the tax gap is �100 billion a year. Why aren't they
:38:45. > :38:52.going after the corporations and the wealthy people who get off tax?
:38:52. > :38:56.(APPLAUSE). I can answer. First of all, what
:38:56. > :38:59.the Government is doing at the moment in terms of the Budget - I
:38:59. > :39:03.am not a Government Minister. I must stress this again. I am not a
:39:03. > :39:05.Government MP. Be brief, Ben. answer is they are they're put tax
:39:05. > :39:08.on bankers' bonuses, which the Labour Government never managed to
:39:08. > :39:11.do in their time, and also, they're changing the tax system so people
:39:11. > :39:14.that own massive properties in places like Kensington and Chelsea
:39:14. > :39:20.who have these big houses should pay more tax.
:39:20. > :39:23.Thanks, Ben. Tinea? We have a quick one here from Ben
:39:23. > :39:28.who sea, "Have the Government considered a pay-day loan to
:39:28. > :39:31.consider tackling the UK deficit?" Not now they have watched this
:39:31. > :39:34.programme, I think. The Power Bar is looking interesting. It is.
:39:34. > :39:38.Francesca and Shive. It seems you're a little bit head to head
:39:38. > :39:46.with Francesca just pipping to the post there. Our audience have heard
:39:46. > :39:48.the background to these cuts. The gentleman in the blue? Most
:39:48. > :39:51.importantly with the Government's policy is the incoherency of the
:39:51. > :39:54.welfare-to-work programme. A lot of people that are disabled, they're
:39:54. > :39:57.scared of going back to work because they're less well off as a
:39:57. > :40:06.result of that transition and although Iain Duncan Smith has made
:40:06. > :40:12.some negligible progress in that way, I think he needs to do more.
:40:12. > :40:14.Needs to do more. Richard, you've got your hand up at
:40:14. > :40:17.the front. What do you think?
:40:17. > :40:24.I personally believe that change has to happen. It's an outdated
:40:24. > :40:27.system. It doesn't work. I am a disabled person. I am backing up
:40:27. > :40:30.what the Government is doing here in the sense that there is a three-
:40:30. > :40:35.tier scheme but 41 categories of disabilities, and in those, there's
:40:35. > :40:37.different situations. How does three tiers work? It doesn't. It's
:40:37. > :40:41.outdated. It won't work. I personally believe that the
:40:41. > :40:46.Government cannot take away the mobility side of things. There's
:40:46. > :40:50.points of the DLA - there's your carers and your mobility. I know a
:40:50. > :40:53.lot of people are very afraid that the mobility side of things will go,
:40:53. > :40:56.and one thing I am finding disgusting from the Government at
:40:56. > :40:58.the moment is the sense that people that are le that are le
:40:58. > :41:01.getting provided false legs are actually then getting stripped of
:41:01. > :41:05.their mode of mobility because the Government feels they have already
:41:05. > :41:07.provided a need for them but you go to the London Underground and try
:41:07. > :41:12.to get downstairs when you have an above-knee amputation. I play
:41:12. > :41:19.basketball. I play with all different types of amputees. It's
:41:19. > :41:29.an outdated system. I do believe why a lot of people say, why attack
:41:29. > :41:30.
:41:30. > :41:33.the weak and the poor? Everybody is in a different situation. Good case.
:41:33. > :41:38.Thank you very much. Is it about getting people back to work? Is
:41:38. > :41:42.that the situation? Yes? I think that we should educate people
:41:42. > :41:44.because at the end of the day, we've got people who aren't on DLA
:41:44. > :41:47.who should be, and because people aren't being educated, they're not
:41:47. > :41:57.getting the right benefits, and the people that are getting the
:41:57. > :41:58.
:41:58. > :42:01.benefits shouldn't be getting them. I think everything should be done
:42:01. > :42:04.individually at the doctor's, and people that are having their DLA
:42:04. > :42:10.taken off them should be educated into other resources that'll help
:42:11. > :42:13.them in the future. Thank you. Tinea? Yes, we've got Julian, who
:42:13. > :42:19.responds to the question, "What effect will DLA cuts have on
:42:19. > :42:23.disabled people?" He simply says, "Increased suicide rates". Wow. You
:42:23. > :42:27.have your hand up. Yeah, one of the things that the Government is doing
:42:27. > :42:31.now in terms of the reforms - there's a new system coming in
:42:31. > :42:33.called universal credit which is Iain Duncan Smith's big idea. It's
:42:34. > :42:37.got - it's very, very complicated, and even the Government hasn't
:42:37. > :42:39.released all the details on it, but one of the things that's coming out
:42:40. > :42:42.is that for those on employment support allowance which is
:42:42. > :42:46.basically supposed to act in a way as an insurance scheme because
:42:46. > :42:49.people get disabled or sick at any point of their life - you don't
:42:50. > :42:54.know when it's going to happen - those people who are in the group
:42:54. > :42:57.works the Government is increasing - we know now - the sanctions, so
:42:57. > :43:04.if they don't do what they're told, effectively, the sanction will go
:43:04. > :43:07.up from what was �28 a week to �70 a week. We also know that the
:43:07. > :43:13.Government is thinking about and may institute plans about making
:43:13. > :43:15.them work unpaid and do work experience. That's also very
:43:15. > :43:19.controversial when you're talking about this group of people. We're
:43:19. > :43:23.up against the clock so I think you should give us your final response
:43:23. > :43:26.to this. Forcing people to do work experience - that is not happening.
:43:26. > :43:28.That is one of the plans. There is an awful lot of misinformation that
:43:28. > :43:36.goes on. Understandably, people with disabilities are very
:43:36. > :43:39.concerned about the prospects of being reassessed. A number of these
:43:39. > :43:42.people have never been reassessed for 20, 30 years in some cases, so
:43:42. > :43:45.people are anxious about what it means for them. I have constituents
:43:45. > :43:47.who have contacted me about having to go to Albert Bridge House in
:43:47. > :43:50.Manchester to be reassessed, and understandably, they're worried
:43:51. > :43:54.about what it means for them, but unfortunately, the way it's being
:43:54. > :43:56.projected by the Government about, we're going to save 20% on the DLA
:43:57. > :43:59.budget means that people are saying, oh, they're cutting benefits, but
:44:00. > :44:09.actually, what we will end up seeing is seeing that people will
:44:10. > :44:14.
:44:14. > :44:18.be reassessed. They'll be reassessed and realise they are in
:44:18. > :44:21.need of this benefit, and it won't save them money... We'll wait and
:44:21. > :44:25.see. We'll find out. A final point from you, please, Tinea? Yes, if we
:44:25. > :44:28.can just look at the Power Bar, I think you'll see Francesca is in
:44:28. > :44:31.the lead, and Ben, I think it's time to get that Kleenex. Fran,
:44:31. > :44:35.you're making some great points. Keep that up. Please do make sure
:44:35. > :44:38.you get on Twitter. Please use the Power Bar and make sure you let us
:44:38. > :44:43.know what you think of the panellists. You use the #Yes or #No
:44:43. > :44:53.followed by their first name. If you agree with Francesca, which
:44:53. > :44:56.
:44:56. > :44:59.many of you are, it's #YesFran or #NoFran. So please, get involved,
:44:59. > :45:05.make your voice heard on Free Speech and Tweet Power Bar. It's
:45:05. > :45:07.the only show you can do that. Moving on, he may be serving in
:45:07. > :45:12.Afghanistan now, but pictures of him triggered over two million
:45:12. > :45:15.Google searches for "Prince Harry, naked". Final confirmation, if we
:45:15. > :45:21.really needed it, that he actually is ginger, but what does it mean in
:45:21. > :45:25.the big privacy versus freedom of speech debate? One newspaper in
:45:25. > :45:28.this country did run the story, but I can't show you the pics! The Sun
:45:28. > :45:38.argued that the pictures were already in the public domain online
:45:38. > :45:38.
:45:38. > :45:41.before they were published. Michael has a question to get us going.
:45:41. > :45:43.Does the public benefit by knowing that Prince Harry's going out
:45:43. > :45:50.galavanting and having fun? Ben, self-regulation of the press, what
:45:50. > :45:52.do we think? I did have a sneaky peak on the
:45:52. > :45:56.internet and my boyfriend may kill me. Self-regulation, I'm not going
:45:56. > :45:59.to get into the Leveson inquiry, but if I was in the Sun's shoes I
:45:59. > :46:09.wouldn't have published it. I don't think it's necessarily in the
:46:09. > :46:12.
:46:12. > :46:16.national interest for the paper to make money out of this. People
:46:16. > :46:19.googled it anyway and most will have seen it. Let's see what they
:46:19. > :46:29.come up with. I have a funny suspicion, but I can't comment,
:46:29. > :46:32.
:46:32. > :46:40.that it will end up being further regulated. Does it really matter?
:46:40. > :46:43.I don't care. We have established that Harry isn't brilliant at naked
:46:43. > :46:52.billiards, but he's in the public eye and he knows that, but you know
:46:53. > :47:00.anything that ends up on Facebook or on a camera phone isn't private.
:47:00. > :47:06.OK. The lady there. Are there not more important things than Prince
:47:06. > :47:10.Harry naked? Seriously! We'll find out, actually. Hands up all the
:47:10. > :47:19.people that went out and bought the Sun that day. One hand up in the
:47:19. > :47:27.air. Why did you buy it that day? What was the interest? Just a good
:47:27. > :47:37.story in the paper. Was it a good story? I wasn't going to comment on
:47:37. > :47:42.
:47:42. > :47:45.that. Is our Royalty now downgraded to that level? Of Paris Hilton?
:47:45. > :47:49.Sun said it has implications because he represents Great Britain
:47:49. > :47:53.around the world. Shiv, what was your reaction? I work for The
:47:53. > :48:03.Guardian and we clearly are on one side of the debate on these matters,
:48:03. > :48:07.
:48:07. > :48:09.which is very far away from the Sun. However, our lawyers saw the press
:48:09. > :48:12.notice, they passed them to journalists in case they're
:48:12. > :48:22.reporting on these and Clarence House was eager to say, "Please
:48:22. > :48:23.
:48:23. > :48:26.don't. It was taken out of context." In the sense it was his
:48:26. > :48:30.privacy. You just think, look, he is - there are two things, he's 27
:48:30. > :48:34.years old and my own moral thing is he should be growing up and not
:48:34. > :48:36.sort of spending lavish sums holidaying it up in Las Vegas. I
:48:36. > :48:45.just didn't think it was appropriate and in a sense,
:48:45. > :48:52.therefore, if he's going to do stuff like this, it will get out.
:48:52. > :48:56.On the other hand, which is actually a supportive argument too.
:48:56. > :48:59.Leveson has put a chill on a lot of people in the press and that chill
:48:59. > :49:02.factor, the press have stopped publishing or are far more timid
:49:02. > :49:12.and it's not just stuff like Harry's photographs, but also like
:49:12. > :49:15.
:49:15. > :49:18.serious investigations. I don't support it. I don't think Prince
:49:18. > :49:23.Harry should grow up, the pictures made my day, but Bob says,
:49:23. > :49:28."Everyone needs to keep their knickers untwisted." We'll hear
:49:28. > :49:32.from the audience. People forget, even though he's a prince, he's
:49:32. > :49:36.still human. He has to go to all of the gigs and he's got all the
:49:36. > :49:39.duties, but he's still human and only 27 and missed out on so much
:49:39. > :49:43.of what we go out and clubbing and he has engagements, so when he's
:49:43. > :49:53.doing his own thing why can't he do what he wants? He's still a young
:49:53. > :49:54.
:49:54. > :49:57.man making his own decisions. of people say the Royal Family is
:49:57. > :50:00.outdated, but he's human and he's young, but what a lot of people
:50:00. > :50:07.aren't looking at is, there was a picture of him naked, but also
:50:07. > :50:10.there's a picture on the front page of him going back to Afghanistan.
:50:10. > :50:20.He's enjoyed himself before he serves his country. He's a real
:50:20. > :50:21.
:50:21. > :50:25.human being, so what? (APPLAUSE).
:50:25. > :50:28.I just want to say the Sun is actually a Tory paper and the
:50:28. > :50:31.Tories say that they are more inclined to cut people's benefits,
:50:31. > :50:41.well why do they look at the Prince Harry rather than people's
:50:41. > :50:41.
:50:41. > :50:44.services? That's what I want to know.
:50:44. > :50:49.Tracey says, she doesn't agree, "I don't care so much for the story.
:50:49. > :50:57.It's the principle of freedom of speech." Thank you for getting
:50:57. > :51:00.online. Popular one. Surprise, surprise. Now, finally, it's
:51:00. > :51:05.September 11th and that means it's 11 years since the attacks in
:51:05. > :51:08.America that killed 3,000 people. Interestingly today, no politician
:51:08. > :51:12.was invited to speak at the annual memorial service at Ground Zero so
:51:12. > :51:22.is this a date to remember or one we should finally be putting behind
:51:22. > :51:24.
:51:24. > :51:26.us? Alex uploaded this video and his view is pretty emphatic.
:51:26. > :51:30.Some people say we shouldn't remember the events of 11th
:51:30. > :51:34.September since it was so long ago, but I say, ask yourself how can you
:51:34. > :51:42.ask when the consequences affect everyone every day? When you go to
:51:42. > :51:45.an airport, you get searched. If you look at the recent Paralympic
:51:45. > :51:48.and Olympic Games, all the hundreds of army personnel and armed police
:51:48. > :51:51.there to protect us from the events that happened all those years ago.
:51:51. > :51:54.I mean, look, it's not just about what happened, it's also about
:51:54. > :51:58.learning from it, educating a youth that maybe couldn't see it first-
:51:58. > :52:01.hand and explaining why we live in the world we do today and also
:52:01. > :52:05.learning from the mistakes that we made, to allow that event to happen
:52:05. > :52:08.in the first place. Making sure, most importantly, that it never
:52:08. > :52:11.happens again and also let's not forget it's about respecting and
:52:11. > :52:19.remembering all those people who died and all the people who put
:52:19. > :52:23.their lives on the line to save others on that day.
:52:23. > :52:26.Great points. You can do that and upload a rant to the website, but
:52:26. > :52:29.the issues and how they affect the modern world are among the themes
:52:29. > :52:37.of the Rethink Festival at BBC Media City and that starts tomorrow
:52:37. > :52:39.and we have a question on this final topic. Would you agree that
:52:39. > :52:47.media coverage of religion since 9/11 has only served to reinforce
:52:47. > :52:52.negative stereotypes of religion, particularly of Islam?
:52:52. > :52:56.This gentleman clapped there. Watching that video I didn't want
:52:56. > :53:00.to get angry, but I am. He doesn't get stopped of the airports. People
:53:00. > :53:10.like me do. What happened after 9/11 was a systematic demonisation
:53:10. > :53:10.
:53:10. > :53:20.of Islam and people were attacked. Girls have their scarfs ripped off.
:53:20. > :53:21.
:53:21. > :53:24.Jack Straw took advantage of the situation. What happened was we had
:53:24. > :53:28.to look into our faith and try and constantly try to defend it all the
:53:28. > :53:34.time and I think it was ridiculous and the media have a lot to answer
:53:34. > :53:43.for. I was going into high school and I
:53:43. > :53:47.remember the complete five years it was like the peak of racism. As a
:53:47. > :53:53.result of that I got into a lot of fights at school. All of us, you
:53:53. > :53:56.couldn't walk down the corridor without being called Taxi. I had to
:53:56. > :54:00.stand up for myself and fight, because that was me standing up for
:54:00. > :54:06.myself. I didn't feel like the teachers did enough. It was five
:54:06. > :54:11.years of my life. A really difficult five years.
:54:11. > :54:14.We'll hear from the panel. Tinea. One from David who says, "We
:54:14. > :54:21.lost the war when our freedoms were stolen and our way of life
:54:21. > :54:28.suffers." Is this time to put this behind us?
:54:28. > :54:31.I think it was monumental. To address the point about the media,
:54:31. > :54:39.I think for even now it's been absolutely horrific how most of the
:54:39. > :54:42.sections of the media treated the Muslim community.
:54:42. > :54:45.I don't think it's for us to tell people who want to remember a
:54:45. > :54:55.particular time where their lives were affected by something so
:54:55. > :54:58.important to tell them no, you shouldn't be commemorated.
:54:58. > :55:01.I remember where I was and I was doing my work experience at the
:55:01. > :55:06.time and I find it outrageous that you've received a lot of racial
:55:06. > :55:11.abuse as a result of that, too. Being gay I've received a lot of
:55:11. > :55:16.homophobic comments, so I understand where you're coming from.
:55:16. > :55:19.Should we put it behind us? I think so. Me being an eternal optimist,
:55:19. > :55:25.it's brought communities together. I work with a Muslim MP and we work
:55:25. > :55:30.together on that. Fran? I think we need to look at
:55:30. > :55:34.the root causes of terrorism. We need to stop allowing our
:55:34. > :55:38.governments to be so violent in their foreign policy.
:55:38. > :55:45.(APPLAUSE). We need to stop dehumanising each
:55:45. > :55:50.other with labels and to have more compassion and understanding.
:55:50. > :55:55.Perfect. Tinea. One last look at the Power Bar.
:55:55. > :56:03.Fran, you've been winning the whole way through. Fran, you have won.
:56:03. > :56:06.Sum up the show, Fran. Ten seconds. Wow! I think that what's facing
:56:06. > :56:10.this country is the issue of inequality and I think as a nation
:56:10. > :56:18.we need to stand up and try and fight for a government that
:56:18. > :56:22.represents our interests and not the minority (APPLAUSE).