:00:11. > :00:21.This is Free Speech. Your chance to have your say about what matters to
:00:21. > :00:52.
:00:52. > :00:54.All right. That is a nice Northern welcome.
:00:54. > :00:56.Good evening. Welcome to Free Speech. I'm Jake Humphrey. Tonight,
:00:56. > :01:06.we're live from Northumbria University Student Union in
:01:06. > :01:08.
:01:08. > :01:13.Newcastle. CHEERING Well done to each and every one of you for
:01:13. > :01:17.braving the floods here this evening.
:01:17. > :01:20.It's a very special Free Speech tonight. It's a chance to debate
:01:20. > :01:27.issues raised by BBC Three's Body Beautiful season. Last night you'll
:01:27. > :01:33.have seen Gemma Cairney's emotional film about skin. I start with this,
:01:33. > :01:38.a face wash for men. It never works! This is something different.
:01:38. > :01:45.It is like a scrub. You leave it on for ten minutes. It is quite good
:01:45. > :01:51.stuff. Everyone has used that. used to use that! Yeah. Then a
:01:51. > :01:58.cloth, which is handy if you like don't have enough time to put them
:01:58. > :02:02.on. They take a while. Right. You are an expert! It was a moving
:02:02. > :02:05.watch. If you've got a comment about any
:02:05. > :02:09.of the programmes in the Body Beautiful season and our debates
:02:09. > :02:14.here tonight, now is the time to get talking to BBC Three's very own
:02:14. > :02:17.Sam Naz. APPLAUSE Sam will be looking at all your
:02:17. > :02:24.comments so phones, tablets and laptops at the ready. Log onto
:02:24. > :02:31.Facebook, Twitter and BBC Online. Here are our addresses:
:02:31. > :02:35.It's time to make your voice heard on Free Speech. And remember, this
:02:35. > :02:39.is the only TV show with the Power Bar. You can power it up on Twitter
:02:39. > :02:41.by letting us know what you think of the panel. Just use #Yes or #No
:02:41. > :02:44.followed by the first name of one of our panellists.
:02:44. > :02:48.And here they are. She's the CEO of youth charity Central YMCA. She's
:02:48. > :02:51.Rosi Prescott. He's a personal trainer and author
:02:51. > :03:00.of controversial diet bestseller Six Weeks to OMG. His real name is
:03:00. > :03:03.Paul, but he goes by the name of Venice A Fulton.
:03:03. > :03:10.She's a poet, she's a playwright, she's a feminist campaigner, she's
:03:10. > :03:13.Sabrina Mahfouz. And finally, visiting us from
:03:13. > :03:21.Planet Fashion, where she's styled the X Factor and judged Britain's
:03:21. > :03:25.Next Top Model - Grace Woodward. So, we're talking about the body
:03:25. > :03:28.beautiful and the efforts young people go to to get it. But what is
:03:28. > :03:38.the body beautiful and why are people so quick to criticise the
:03:38. > :03:48.
:03:48. > :03:53.appearance of others? We asked I think my body is purpose built,
:03:53. > :03:58.muscular, efficient. The perfect body is different in everyone's
:03:58. > :04:02.eyes. We come in all shapes and sizes. I suppose a fairly feminine
:04:03. > :04:08.shape in that I go in at the waist and out at the hips. I'm proud of
:04:08. > :04:18.my bum. We do a lot of squats and that is quite good for getting a
:04:18. > :04:19.
:04:19. > :04:25.toned bum. It is quite big! It is toned as well. The guys are
:04:25. > :04:29.appalled at us doing a men's sport. I have some muscles, but it is
:04:29. > :04:36.nothing out of the ordinary. (A) why do you feel you have to
:04:36. > :04:42.comment? (B) why do you care? (C) why do you think we care? We are
:04:42. > :04:47.doing this for us. I think in their brain they imagine us to look a lot
:04:47. > :04:53.bigger and scarier than we do. Obviously, women do come in lots of
:04:53. > :04:59.different shapes and sizes. Tall, short, broad, narrow. They are all
:04:59. > :05:03.very successful and wonderful in their own right. APPLAUSE Isn't
:05:03. > :05:09.that amazing? So Zoe - an incredibly fit athlete
:05:09. > :05:15.- faced criticism of her body. Jess Ennis has spoken out about women's
:05:15. > :05:23.fears of becoming too muscular. I want to ask our audience here
:05:23. > :05:29.what's important to them when it comes to body image. Twice a week,
:05:29. > :05:35.really. It is important because I want to be a successful singer. In
:05:35. > :05:41.magazines you don't see ugly people. So like it helps. How much time do
:05:41. > :05:46.you spend working on your voice compared to the way you look?
:05:46. > :05:50.sing every day. I spend an hour before work to get ready for work.
:05:50. > :05:58.The way you look is as important at this stage to get that first
:05:58. > :06:04.chance? Definitely. That is interesting. Quincy, how do you
:06:04. > :06:08.react to comments like that? think you should just be free, you
:06:08. > :06:14.shouldn't have to cover yourself, your natural body, your natural
:06:14. > :06:17.image is beautiful in its way. I think that beauty is within, not
:06:17. > :06:21.outside. You have an amazing voice. You don't need an image to get you
:06:21. > :06:26.there. With the amazing voice and the image, you get further. You
:06:26. > :06:30.don't see many ugly people like making it as big as what... That is
:06:30. > :06:37.a fair point. Define "ugly"? Somebody not socially beautiful,
:06:37. > :06:42.somebody that can be judged easily. Let's go to Rebecca. When they say
:06:42. > :06:46.define "ugly" how does that make you feel? It makes me feel not
:06:46. > :06:50.angry, just disappointed really because I don't really feel the
:06:50. > :06:54.need to wear make-up. I am really confident in my body. I can't
:06:54. > :06:58.explain why I feel that way. It is not as if it was drummed into me by
:06:58. > :07:02.my parents. I feel really confident. I think it is not going to be the
:07:02. > :07:06.first thing people notice about me when they look at me. I'm really
:07:06. > :07:12.happy with who I am. I hope more young girls and young people can
:07:13. > :07:15.feel that way. Fantastic. APPLAUSE Great comment to start the evening.
:07:15. > :07:19.Rosi, let's just come to you. Central YMCA has commissioned a
:07:19. > :07:22.poll which you are revealing exclusively here on Free Speech.
:07:22. > :07:30.That has some shocking stats on how young people feel about their
:07:31. > :07:36.bodies? It does. We found a couple of interesting things. One of them
:07:36. > :07:42.was adults in general will spend 17 quid a month on cosmetics and hair
:07:42. > :07:46.and stuff - no clothes. One in four 18 to 34-year-olds in these
:07:46. > :07:52.difficult economic times will spend �90 a month on this stuff. This is
:07:52. > :07:58.shocking. Wow! The other thing is one in seven 18 to 34-year-olds
:07:58. > :08:01.would have or have had cosmetic surgery and would rather be thin
:08:01. > :08:05.than healthy. That is the interesting point at the end -
:08:05. > :08:09.rather be thin than healthy. Where's Katie? Hi. What would you
:08:09. > :08:15.like to know? I would like to know whether you think cosmetic surgery
:08:15. > :08:19.should be banned or not. What is the Central YMCA stance on this?
:08:19. > :08:24.I'm not sure about banning. People will find a way around it, won't
:08:24. > :08:29.they? We have seen that recently in society. They will go abroad, or to
:08:29. > :08:34.the back-streets. I do think that we need to have some kind of code,
:08:34. > :08:37.we need to have something. Think about the Groupon phenomenon, where
:08:37. > :08:42.you have quick and easy access to stuff. You don't have time to think
:08:42. > :08:47.about it whether you want it. And furthermore, people that have these
:08:47. > :08:53.interventions, one in three of those people are not happy with the
:08:53. > :08:57.results. One other thing - one in five people, that is 20% of people
:08:57. > :09:02.who have this intervention have bodice more ya, which means once
:09:02. > :09:07.you have had it, you still want more of it. You say it shouldn't be
:09:07. > :09:12.banned? It needs to be regulated in some way. Venice, should it be
:09:12. > :09:18.banned? Should cosmetic surgery be banned? Cosmetic comes from the
:09:18. > :09:23.Greek word "cosmos". If you are a 15-year-old girl and your nose is
:09:23. > :09:29.bigger than all the other girls' noses at school and you are being
:09:30. > :09:35.bullied about it. Or if you are a guy whose ears stick out, you have
:09:35. > :09:40.no order in your life. For all we know, this is one life. If you even
:09:40. > :09:44.bring up the question of should cosmetic surgery be banned, you are
:09:44. > :09:48.removing hope from these people. No-one in this room - myself or any
:09:48. > :09:56.of the panel, or the Government - has the right to take away hope
:09:56. > :10:02.from people. OK. Sam? It is something that should be given on
:10:02. > :10:06.the NHS if it is necessary. A blanket ban would be a disaster.
:10:06. > :10:11.A blanket ban would be a disaster. Sabrina? I don't think you could
:10:11. > :10:16.really implement a ban that would work, but advertising of cosmetic
:10:16. > :10:25.surgery to the extent that exists right now - it is everywhere, page
:10:25. > :10:28.after page of it - that needs to be curbed. You are promoting it as a
:10:28. > :10:33.normal thing. I think the fundamental reason behind that
:10:33. > :10:37.cosmetic surgery demand is the fact that we see so many women,
:10:37. > :10:41.particularly - I know it is on the rise for men - it is still the
:10:41. > :10:45.majority of women that do it - and the general thing is that a woman
:10:46. > :10:48.is valued for her beauty, she gets successful for being sexually
:10:48. > :10:54.attractive and beautiful so therefore the demand is high.
:10:54. > :10:57.one thing that stood out there - one in seven would prefer to be
:10:57. > :11:04.thin than healthy. Is cosmetic surgery part of a real issue in
:11:04. > :11:09.this country, it is about looking better without? It is an argument
:11:09. > :11:13.that can work on both points. I think that if somebody's really
:11:13. > :11:22.desperately unhappy about - you mentioned a really big nose. If you
:11:22. > :11:25.are not part of the beauty norm and it makes you unhappy, somebody is -
:11:25. > :11:30.- somebody's pain is the equivalent of somebody else's pain. I would
:11:30. > :11:36.like to see more psychological testing and more of a difficult
:11:36. > :11:39.access point to it. It should not be banned. It would go underground.
:11:39. > :11:43.It would become very dangerous. And also we need to develop this
:11:43. > :11:48.technology for people who also need it, for accidents, stuff like that.
:11:48. > :11:58.Yeah. It is interesting. Low body confidence is linked to mental
:11:58. > :12:03.health. Get your hands up, audience. Sam, a first look at the Power Bar.
:12:04. > :12:10.Yes. Are you ready? It is time people at home had their say. Let's
:12:10. > :12:18.get a quick verdict and fire it up! Rosi taking an early lead. A lot of
:12:18. > :12:23.people connecting with the poll's findings. Rosi is happy with that!
:12:23. > :12:27.Ely, how important do you think cosmetic surgery is? It is, for
:12:27. > :12:33.myself, and for my work. What is your work? Glamour modelling.
:12:33. > :12:38.have you had done? I had two boob jobs and every three months I get
:12:38. > :12:44.my lips enhanced. Tomorrow morning, I'm getting my next one. Three
:12:44. > :12:47.months ago, I started with the Botox. I'm 27. But I think it will
:12:47. > :12:57.be four times a year and then three times a year and then two times a
:12:57. > :13:00.
:13:00. > :13:04.It is better starting be poor and for your wrinkles. There's
:13:04. > :13:10.definitely an increase in young people having it as a preventive
:13:10. > :13:15.measure. Steve, you are the managing director of Transform, a
:13:15. > :13:20.cosmetic surgery group. Are you concerned about the numbers of
:13:20. > :13:24.young people wanting the surgery? Concerned, I think you have got to
:13:24. > :13:29.get into perspective. There is a misconception anybody who comes to
:13:29. > :13:33.a company like us will receive a procedure but three out of every 10
:13:33. > :13:38.people a proper consultation with us will be declined for reasons
:13:38. > :13:43.they have the wrong expectations, they are not medically suitable, or
:13:43. > :13:47.have underlining medical issues. It's not straightforward. But not a
:13:47. > :13:52.psychological issue? Absolutely, that could be an issue as well.
:13:52. > :13:58.They will be referred to their GP. We will check their in the right
:13:58. > :14:03.frame of mind for it, as well. just seen on the board, cosmetic
:14:04. > :14:09.surgery should not be allowed on the NHS. Three years ago, I was in
:14:09. > :14:14.a fire, and 15 of my operations had been cosmetic surgery because it's
:14:14. > :14:19.been needed. And I think banning cosmetic surgery would be
:14:19. > :14:23.disastrous. I needed it to save my life, so they are going to take
:14:23. > :14:28.that opportunity away from people like me who did not have the choice
:14:28. > :14:32.but needed cosmetic surgery to ultimately save parts of their body.
:14:32. > :14:36.If you needed for serious reasons such as being caught in a fire,
:14:36. > :14:43.fine, but it you want to do it for a job, maybe that's a different
:14:43. > :14:47.case? It's every one's own choice. At the age of 18, when I was 5 ft 7
:14:47. > :14:53.and a size six, after being burned, I now look back at pictures and
:14:53. > :14:57.think what was I complaining about because I used to pick at my body,
:14:57. > :15:02.focus on people I admired in the media and that's why I want to be
:15:02. > :15:06.like. Now I look back on it, I'm just a shame it took something so
:15:06. > :15:11.serious for me to wake up and realise I didn't need to be like
:15:11. > :15:16.the people I watched when I was younger and now I'm happy the way I
:15:16. > :15:24.am. I've got nothing against cosmetic surgery. OK, Tommy is
:15:24. > :15:33.sitting next to you. Tommy, you look perfect. Thank you. Have you
:15:33. > :15:39.had cosmetic surgery? No, in Essex, I am known as a human Ken doll. A
:15:39. > :15:47.lot of people do judge me balls of I don't care, to be honest. How do
:15:47. > :15:54.they judge you? I do a lot of TV work. I have a lot of followers on
:15:54. > :16:00.Twitter and a lot of people judge me. They think I am fake. He's
:16:00. > :16:05.orange, all of this. You haven't had surgery about you? What is
:16:05. > :16:10.vague about you? They say my tan, just the way I am and I'm not a
:16:10. > :16:15.fake person. How do you feel about people who have cosmetic surgery?
:16:15. > :16:20.Would you wish people would work harder in the gymnasium, or would
:16:20. > :16:25.work hard on your body? Everybody is different for reason. Everybody
:16:25. > :16:32.is beautiful. You don't have to conform. A lot of my friends,
:16:32. > :16:38.glamour models, they are amazing. That's what they want to do. But I
:16:38. > :16:42.don't think it needs to happen. It's not necessary. Do you think,
:16:42. > :16:48.by spending money other people could not afford, how much have be
:16:48. > :16:52.spent on your breasts? �8,000. lot of money for an 18-year-old
:16:52. > :16:58.girl. Are you creating an image people can't achieve? It's
:16:58. > :17:01.personally, the first and for myself. I have a little boy and a
:17:01. > :17:09.breast fed and my breast went down and once the fatty tissue grows
:17:09. > :17:15.away, then... It's natural, though? Part of being a woman. Not three
:17:15. > :17:20.years ago. Most of my breast tissue had gone. I felt like a man from
:17:20. > :17:24.behind so I wanted it to be enhanced so that's why I had the
:17:24. > :17:32.first one. The second one of this Lee was for to be bigger, the
:17:32. > :17:37.appearance. -- obviously. You have to try to be the top. You have to
:17:37. > :17:44.compete? Yes. Michaelis says it will lead to more people going
:17:44. > :17:49.abroad if you ban it and more dodgy jobs being done. People say here no
:17:49. > :17:52.one thinks cosmetic surgery should be banned for the the so many
:17:52. > :17:57.productions on the West End where those who are physically abnormal,
:17:57. > :18:07.wicked, and two of the opera, hairspray, those who society think
:18:07. > :18:11.
:18:11. > :18:15.are not physically normal, our And you think that is healthy?
:18:15. > :18:20.I don't think cosmetic surgery should be seen as a cure for having
:18:20. > :18:24.a bad body image. I don't think having one part of your body
:18:24. > :18:30.altered will change how you feel about yourself. It is silly, really,
:18:30. > :18:35.to say, if I change one thing I am insecure about I will feel fine. I
:18:35. > :18:42.don't think it should be banned, but by encouraging it, when people
:18:42. > :18:48.see other people having cosmetic surgery, it's... OK, let's go to
:18:48. > :18:53.Steve. This young lady is saying, yes, had surgery, but will it make
:18:53. > :18:58.you happy on the inside? Absolutely. In the overwhelming majority of
:18:58. > :19:03.cases to come to Transform, they do it for self-confidence, to feel
:19:03. > :19:08.normal. That self-confidence manifests itself in this socialite,
:19:08. > :19:12.career. Even going on holiday and feeling comfortable taking your top
:19:12. > :19:19.off on the beach. It's absolutely about allowing people to feel good
:19:19. > :19:23.about themselves or for that's the case. Could I pick up on that. I
:19:23. > :19:27.would question what is normal for the except for identical twins, we
:19:27. > :19:37.are all individual and if we cannot celebrate and feel confident in
:19:37. > :19:43.that, we will do an awful lot better. Let's go to you, Sam.
:19:43. > :19:50.says it should be regulated. People should use it to help further
:19:50. > :19:55.themselves, not for vanity. Monica disagrees. She thinks it shouldn't
:19:55. > :20:04.be. Alan it says it should not be bound to but it goes wrong, and its
:20:05. > :20:08.private... But Tom says only Eddie people say looks don't matter. --
:20:08. > :20:13.ugly people. Looks mean everything in today's world. It's wrong but
:20:13. > :20:17.it's true. Maybe that's the case. Hands up anybody who thinks
:20:17. > :20:20.cosmetic surgery should be completely banned? That tells the
:20:20. > :20:24.whole story, doesn't it? Thanks, Sam. Remember if you want your
:20:24. > :20:31.point of view read out, you've got to make it first. So head to
:20:31. > :20:41.Facebook. Or Twitter. Or use hashtag Free Speech. Or go to the
:20:41. > :20:42.
:20:42. > :20:46.Next, while we're talking body image we have to talk about size
:20:46. > :20:52.and how it makes us feel. Thin and healthy, fat and happy, thin and
:20:52. > :20:57.miserable, fat and fit. Jane has been looking at big deal beauty
:20:57. > :21:01.pageants. In a world obsessed by skinny, I'm interested in this rare
:21:01. > :21:09.place. Where girls can bear their flesh and be celebrated for their
:21:09. > :21:14.size. The moment you are all been waiting for. This is the story of
:21:14. > :21:24.four of the finalists. I'm a 22 stone and that's it. Everything is
:21:24. > :21:28.
:21:29. > :21:32.big. Big boobs. Fantastic. Let's get a question. My question is,
:21:33. > :21:38.does discussing of the city in the context of body image risk
:21:38. > :21:43.normalising of the biggest killers in the modern world? Venice, how
:21:43. > :21:48.worried I about normalising obesity? Yes, I am worried because
:21:48. > :21:54.we are a politically correct world, very afraid of stepping on anyone's
:21:54. > :21:58.toes. If you take the emotions out of it, go straight to the evidence,
:21:58. > :22:03.if you were heavier than you need to be your and healthier than you
:22:03. > :22:07.need to be and that has a knock-on effect on your future family's life.
:22:07. > :22:14.And on the economy. There's loads of different things, so we must
:22:14. > :22:19.separate this issue of Vanity and health. I would like to say that,
:22:19. > :22:29.from your research, you mentioned people would prefer to be thinner,
:22:29. > :22:29.
:22:29. > :22:39.not healthier. Is that correct? Skinner is actually healthier.
:22:39. > :22:41.
:22:41. > :22:44.was the sub-heading of York book? - of your book. The you have to sex
:22:44. > :22:50.a double for be sexier than are your friends. I literally did not
:22:50. > :22:53.like the title. I gave people a choice. I would be happier if
:22:53. > :22:57.people picked up any book which is involved in the health arena.
:22:57. > :23:04.Rather than not pick it up and just go to the internet and find out
:23:04. > :23:09.gibberish. That is so important for people. Sabrina, are we normalising
:23:09. > :23:13.obesity in this country? I don't know about that. I don't know how
:23:13. > :23:18.you can normalise something and, at the same time, pressurising
:23:18. > :23:24.everybody to be thinner. If surveys say people would rather be thin
:23:24. > :23:28.than healthy, I don't see that is normalising obesity. It's difficult
:23:28. > :23:34.because to say Opc is not healthy, I don't think that people are all
:23:34. > :23:44.and healthy. Where is the liner? People just have a different weight
:23:44. > :23:49.which is healthy for them. audience have something to save.
:23:49. > :23:56.interesting point from Gover, who says it's the gay community who are
:23:56. > :24:02.most harsh on obesity and even bears a don't like big guys.
:24:02. > :24:08.interesting. Grace, what do you think? I mean, this film looked
:24:08. > :24:15.very celebratory. But I think that it seems to be always extremely one
:24:15. > :24:22.way or the other. And I think that we would not show extremely thin
:24:22. > :24:27.but naturally thin people and I do think there is a fear around that
:24:27. > :24:34.and I think there is a danger in that normalising really, really
:24:34. > :24:39.over sized body shapes because it does go back to his find. And, in a
:24:39. > :24:45.lot of cases, it is not fine. If the message is, don't do exercise,
:24:45. > :24:52.it is fine to overeat, I would not promote that at all. -- at his find.
:24:52. > :24:57.Obese people, over half the people, they prefer them are women and they
:24:57. > :25:01.will earn more money. Loss of the variance in society discriminating.
:25:01. > :25:06.I want to come back to another point, the correlation between
:25:06. > :25:08.overweight and health. It is not proved and is on a sliding scale
:25:08. > :25:13.for the can we please start thinking about the individual and
:25:13. > :25:18.the person sitting behind us? Here in England we have the fastest
:25:18. > :25:22.women in Europe and the most abundant dieting industries for the
:25:22. > :25:26.square that circle if you can afford it wants to look at a whole
:25:26. > :25:35.person, and see them as a person with politic needs, I think we will
:25:35. > :25:40.crack this problem. OK. Let's take a look at the Power Bar. Grace, you
:25:40. > :25:48.have a shot ahead. Really connecting with people at home.
:25:48. > :25:54.Rosi, you were at the front but have fallen back a bit. I am there.
:25:54. > :25:58.This is getting hard core. Rosi has got fans. Let's talk about being
:25:58. > :26:06.obese and talk about losing weight and hear from the audience for the
:26:06. > :26:16.Loran, tell us your story. I was a size 26, 23 and a half stone, and I
:26:16. > :26:18.
:26:18. > :26:23.Absolutely, well done it. Was it easy to become that way? It was
:26:23. > :26:28.easy to become that bigger but losing weight came with a price.
:26:28. > :26:35.what way? I had body dysmorphic disorder, so when I looked in the
:26:35. > :26:38.mirror, the more weight I lost, I couldn't see it. The actual thing
:26:38. > :26:43.which was happening to me psychologically, was not being
:26:43. > :26:48.taken into consideration. Everybody told me I looked fantastic, but
:26:48. > :26:55.what was going on up there was not great. Were you losing weight for
:26:55. > :27:02.them off for you? Both. How could you feel now? Fantastic. I'm now a
:27:02. > :27:05.size 16, I have put weight back on, the UK average sized girl, and I
:27:06. > :27:11.think it's important people are healthy and happy mind and a
:27:11. > :27:15.healthy and happy diet. You need to exercise but they go hand in hand.
:27:15. > :27:20.Is this a good, help the size to be? There's nothing wrong with it
:27:20. > :27:22.and anybody has an issue with a, they can tell me. I think it's
:27:22. > :27:31.fantastic. Well done for the weight loss, as well.
:27:31. > :27:34.I feel, in today's society, looking at the poverty and unemployment
:27:34. > :27:39.rates, people have not got much money but when you look at the
:27:39. > :27:45.supermarkets, they are advertising half price frozen food, chocolate,
:27:45. > :27:50.biscuits, not cutting down the fruit and vegetables. Also there's
:27:50. > :27:55.a certain department store which have plus size models, advertising
:27:55. > :28:00.clinically obese people and I don't think that's right. It's such a
:28:00. > :28:07.touchy subject for so it should be out front, obesity is on the rise
:28:07. > :28:11.and so and help before for but it's too touchier subject. How much of
:28:11. > :28:15.your book was about what people eat? If the first book of its kind
:28:15. > :28:20.without recipes in it. My publishers wanted to put it in but
:28:20. > :28:26.I decided I wanted to say to people, you have to learn about food, how
:28:26. > :28:29.you eat. And it's important about we reach a point of understanding
:28:29. > :28:37.rather and being told what to do because we are saturated with
:28:37. > :28:47.Let's hear from more of the audience. I want to contest what he
:28:47. > :28:48.
:28:48. > :28:51.said about that thin is healthy. I personally think that his book does
:28:51. > :28:58.promote pro-anorexic tips. There is being healthy but being dangerously
:28:58. > :29:05.thin, which I was, I was told I was weeks from death eight years ago. I
:29:05. > :29:10.know a lot of other sufferers of anorexia and I wanted to know what
:29:10. > :29:15.his thoughts were. Have you read his book? I don't want to!
:29:15. > :29:22.haven't read it? Why would I want to? To make a fair point. I don't
:29:23. > :29:26.want to read any of that stuff any more. Eating disorders are mental
:29:26. > :29:30.disorders with a physical outcome. If you go to rural India and Africa
:29:30. > :29:35.where they have never heard of my book, they have never heard of the
:29:35. > :29:38.BBC and of Britain and Ireland's Next Top Model, there are still
:29:38. > :29:41.eating disorders. They come from intensely personal things, often
:29:41. > :29:44.within the home, within the parental relationship, from abuse,
:29:45. > :29:50.from bullying at school and now with social media. Eating disorders
:29:50. > :29:57.have nothing to do with diet books at all. If you ask people, if you
:29:57. > :30:05.ask 100 people with anorexia, you will get 98 or 99 who will say, "It
:30:05. > :30:14.has nothing to do with diet books." It is something else. You are being
:30:14. > :30:18.patronising to an anorexic! haven't even read the book! I know
:30:19. > :30:22.that for vulnerable young people who are already disupposed to
:30:22. > :30:28.having an eating disorder, books like yours can send people to the
:30:28. > :30:38.extreme. I have had friends who have died from eating disorders.
:30:38. > :30:39.
:30:39. > :30:45.have I! Your book can, you know, it can be very impressionable on young
:30:45. > :30:49.people. Shall we ban the internet? No. I'm giving human beings credit
:30:49. > :30:55.for being bright. We can understand what things mean. Just because
:30:55. > :30:59.there is a book on the shelf. You don't react to each one of those
:30:59. > :31:03.books by seeing them. You really don't. You are dumbing down eating
:31:03. > :31:08.disorders for everyone who has them. I'm not dumbing down disorders.
:31:08. > :31:14.That is really offensive and upsetting. There is nothing wrong -
:31:14. > :31:23.if you read the book, there is a big chapter about eating disorders.
:31:23. > :31:28.The key thing is to see people - I am seeing very few skinny people. I
:31:28. > :31:31.think we have to get away from this skinny is great and fat is to be
:31:31. > :31:39.vilified. We have to stop stigmatising people on the basis of
:31:39. > :31:44.the way they look. Thank you. Well done for winning your own battle
:31:44. > :31:49.with anorexia. APPLAUSE Sam? Obviously, getting a big reaction
:31:49. > :31:55.online. The lady was talking about food prices - she said larger
:31:56. > :32:00.people are poorer because healthy food is ex-pen Si. "There is no
:32:00. > :32:08.excuse for being obese or skinny, everyone in the UK has the means to
:32:08. > :32:12.be healthy, unlike some Third World countries where food is precious."
:32:12. > :32:16.-- expensive. Cliff says celebrating obesity is like
:32:16. > :32:19.celebrating anorexia. Thank you, Sam.
:32:19. > :32:21.We wanted to come to Newcastle for our Body Beautiful Special because,
:32:21. > :32:24.according to research by Sainsbury's, the guys here spend
:32:24. > :32:28.more on male beauty products than anywhere else in the country. And
:32:28. > :32:37.you guys buy more tweezers than anywhere else in Britain. What are
:32:37. > :32:43.you doing with them all?! LAUGHTER Let's get a couple of guys to talk
:32:43. > :32:47.us through how much they spend on these. Your muscles look great. How
:32:47. > :32:50.many days a week are you in the gym? Five times a week. But
:32:50. > :32:57.probably get in there three times. What else do you do to make
:32:57. > :33:02.yourself look beautiful? I am always getting a fresh haircut.
:33:02. > :33:09.often? Every week-and-a-half. fast does your hair grow? Quite
:33:09. > :33:13.fast! OK. Another man with ample muscles - making me feel bad about
:33:13. > :33:17.myself! Talk us through your beauty regime? Most of the stuff I spend
:33:17. > :33:22.money on has to do with going to the gym, whether it be protein
:33:22. > :33:27.shakes or gym membership, or buying loads of meat and that is it. There
:33:27. > :33:31.is nothing else I spend money on. Really? Everything you do is about
:33:31. > :33:35.looking good? No, it is not - everything I do is about going to
:33:35. > :33:39.the gym. Mostly because it's something nice to do and it's - I
:33:39. > :33:44.mean, there is loads of other things that people keep themselves
:33:44. > :33:49.busy with. And spend loads of money on. That is never vilified but as
:33:49. > :33:53.soon as you seem to be vain or something... Why is there a need to
:33:54. > :33:58.do it? Pressure from society? If there was that amount of
:33:58. > :34:03.pressure, many more people would have been in the gym and there's
:34:03. > :34:07.very few that go to the gym. The biggest pressure is on looks, a
:34:07. > :34:12.quick-fix, the stuff you wear and the way you cut your hair. I
:34:13. > :34:18.sometimes think that if some famous person decides he is going to shave
:34:18. > :34:25.off his eyebrows and treat his face with chip fat, then everyone will
:34:25. > :34:30.start doing it! It is a quick-fix. I think that is where the pressure
:34:30. > :34:39.lies and not in going to the gym or looking good in that way. OK. Let's
:34:39. > :34:44.move on to a question from Rose. What would you like to ask? If one
:34:44. > :34:48.in eight British men consider hair striegt ners as an essential --
:34:48. > :34:53.straighteners as an essential, have we reached a point in our society
:34:53. > :34:56.where men are too feminine? many men have used hair
:34:56. > :35:01.straighteners? Brilliant! Are we too feminine as a male society?
:35:01. > :35:09.don't think so. It is a personal choice. It depends how your hair
:35:09. > :35:17.grows as well. LAUGHTER If it is curly, it might need straightening.
:35:17. > :35:21.My friend from Essex? I curl my hair, like I give it a bit of a
:35:21. > :35:26.bend! There is nothing wrong with it. Some guys can be scared to do
:35:26. > :35:30.it because they think, "Oh my God, I don't want to be feminine." Look
:35:30. > :35:38.at this, babe, you are joking. Would you describe yourself as
:35:38. > :35:47.feminine? Definitely. Why? It is me, innit?! I love you by the way! Look
:35:47. > :35:54.at Rylan. He is doing great. I think, like, I go with it! Rosi,
:35:55. > :35:59.what do you think? The situation with men is complex. It is getting
:35:59. > :36:04.worse. Of course, the body ideal for men traditionally, bearing in
:36:04. > :36:09.mind your individuality, but traditionally will be to build bulk.
:36:09. > :36:13.The problem with that is men are prepared to sacrifice a lot to
:36:13. > :36:19.achieve that. One in ten would take steroids to build the bulk. The
:36:19. > :36:23.other shocking thing we found is that at least one in three - no,
:36:23. > :36:27.one in three would sacrifice at least one year of life to have the
:36:27. > :36:31.idea body. There are others who would sacrifice five or ten years
:36:31. > :36:34.of life. This is shocking. Not sure what the reason is. I imagine
:36:34. > :36:39.something, it is something to do with the social contract that
:36:39. > :36:45.menused to be the ones with a fat wallet - that was OK. The woman was
:36:45. > :36:49.the one on the arm. That's different now as women are starting
:36:49. > :36:53.to come out. We have a different social contract between us. Is this
:36:53. > :36:59.an issue of men having to conform to the men we are putting on a
:36:59. > :37:05.pedestal. I see the haircut and tattoo. I'm thinking footballers.
:37:05. > :37:11.Is that part of this? It is for myself. It is quite embarrassing
:37:11. > :37:16.because being gay myself I think it is quite embarrassing when you see
:37:16. > :37:19.people going on like that. People think all gays act like that. It is
:37:19. > :37:22.embarrassing for myself. Since I have come out, I have more gay
:37:22. > :37:25.friends now because I have straight friends. I have loads of gay male
:37:25. > :37:29.friends but hardly any straight male friends because they don't
:37:29. > :37:33.want to be hanging around with somebody like that. I try to - I be
:37:33. > :37:38.myself, I don't want to put on a show. I like being who I am. I
:37:38. > :37:42.would like more straight male friends because I don't want to be
:37:42. > :37:48.backed off by that. Do you almost think men are being braver to be
:37:48. > :37:53.who they are and men are a bit more feminine? Definitely. It wouldn't
:37:53. > :37:57.be the first time that men have worn make-up and high heels. There
:37:57. > :38:04.was a time when they did wear more make-up and higher wigs. I wanted
:38:04. > :38:08.to go back to Rosi's point about the point that women are earning
:38:08. > :38:12.more. If we have had to spend so much time wearing make-up or
:38:12. > :38:18.looking pretty, isn't it time that guys caught up because will they
:38:18. > :38:22.not be left behind if women do look more presentable and getting better
:38:22. > :38:26.jobs? I would challenge what "presentable" is and whether we
:38:26. > :38:33.should be having men coming up to meet the ideal that women have had
:38:33. > :38:38.to force themselves into, or should we be coming to terms with the fact
:38:38. > :38:42.that we should be proud about who we are and what we contribute and
:38:42. > :38:46.how we are perceived physically? What do you think, Sabrina? Is it a
:38:46. > :38:51.case of men coming up to match women or women dumbing down to
:38:51. > :38:57.match men? For me, it is a case of the we didn't have a 15% pay gap
:38:57. > :39:01.between men and women, if we didn't have one in five women in the
:39:01. > :39:05.Cabinet, if those sort of figures were more equal, then I might buy
:39:05. > :39:09.the fact that it's because men need to catch up with women because
:39:09. > :39:13.women are taking over. I don't think that. I think that is an
:39:13. > :39:17.interesting point that you said that maybe it is just that men have
:39:17. > :39:23.always had that feminine side and now it's - they are allowed to feel
:39:23. > :39:30.free to come out with it a bit more. All right. You have a very
:39:31. > :39:34.masculine look going on. I think I wanted to ask further to the
:39:34. > :39:39.research, more and more people are trying to conform now to an ideal,
:39:39. > :39:43.I think in society, that we are presenting. A lot of it - the
:39:43. > :39:47.finger gets pointed at the media. Is the expectation on our
:39:47. > :39:50.generation... You know what? Hold that. Our next question is how much
:39:50. > :39:57.is the media responsible for what goes on. Stay there, keep that
:39:57. > :40:06.thought. Sam, can you give us some thoughts? Lots coming in. "So what
:40:06. > :40:11.if men use straighteners!" Will puts the blame at the women's door.
:40:11. > :40:21."Women have double standards." Men make them feel insecure and they
:40:21. > :40:24.drool over rugby players and divers. OK. LAUGHTER And then Rachel says,
:40:24. > :40:30."Will someone tell the muscle men of Newcastle that the extreme gym
:40:30. > :40:36.look does not look good, you all look the same." Thank goodness. I
:40:36. > :40:41.felt so inferior! LAUGHTER A quick look at the Power Bar? Yes. Let's
:40:42. > :40:48.see how it has affected. Sabrina and Grace - your points have hit
:40:48. > :40:50.home. You are both in the lead. Brilliant. Thank you for getting in
:40:50. > :40:54.touch. OK, so we've been talking about
:40:54. > :40:57.pressure to conform to a body ideal - and we've already heard about the
:40:57. > :41:04.role media images play in that. Rachel has been out and about in
:41:04. > :41:09.Newcastle. I'm Rachel, I'm 25. I'm from Newcastle. Today, I'm looking
:41:09. > :41:16.at the pictures we see on a daily basis in the shopping centre in
:41:16. > :41:22.Newcastle. I think it is dangerous that there isn't diversity of
:41:23. > :41:27.images in the media. It is an issue close to my heart. I developed
:41:27. > :41:33.anorexia at the age of 16. About nine months later at 17 I was
:41:33. > :41:37.dangerously ill and had to be taken to an eating disorder specialist
:41:37. > :41:41.unit. My body started to eat itself and shut down. They told me I
:41:42. > :41:45.couldn't survive at the weight I was. In all the magazines there
:41:45. > :41:51.were celebrities and models who were the same size and weight as me.
:41:51. > :41:56.I don't think the media causes eating disorders as they are very
:41:56. > :42:06.complex mental health illnesses. They don't help. I have finished. I
:42:06. > :42:07.
:42:07. > :42:13.will tally up my results. Today I counted 174 images of people and
:42:13. > :42:18.only two of those images were plus- sized people. 90% of the images we
:42:18. > :42:25.saw were young, slim and white. I think it doesn't represent society
:42:25. > :42:34.and it is no wonder that people are getting low self-esteem and the
:42:34. > :42:38.number of eating disorders is on Thank you very much for sharing a
:42:38. > :42:43.report with us. You are very passionate about the subject so
:42:43. > :42:47.what is your question? Yes, I am passionate about the subject. I
:42:47. > :42:51.think the government should regulate will media and raise self-
:42:51. > :42:57.esteem, do you think the media should be regulated? Let's go
:42:57. > :43:03.straight to the panel. Sabrina, I would like to hear from you. We see
:43:03. > :43:09.images on the catwalk. Surely there are unattainable? Yes, there is a
:43:09. > :43:15.range of things, a lot of attention put on skinny catwalk models but at
:43:15. > :43:20.the same time you are bombarded with images and music videos, more
:43:20. > :43:25.of a curvy figure, but that also just as unattainable, unless you
:43:25. > :43:30.happen to have it, so all of this encouraging a very narrow idea of
:43:30. > :43:34.what is sexy and attractive. It's not healthy. There's a variety of
:43:34. > :43:39.things. People don't know what they find attractive because they only
:43:40. > :43:44.see one image they are supposed to deal with. I think that is really
:43:44. > :43:50.bad and definitely should be regulated. Who should take
:43:50. > :43:55.responsibility for this? The media is a very big umbrella so where do
:43:56. > :44:01.you start with it? There are magazines which are really helpful
:44:01. > :44:07.but the publishing that they do, there are magazines to are
:44:07. > :44:11.glorifying clothing. Where does it begin and end? I feel we have a
:44:11. > :44:16.responsibility for our own reactions to things, rather than
:44:16. > :44:21.being a nanny state, they should be banned and regulated? It's tough
:44:21. > :44:25.but you're a 16-year-old Gill and see images over and over again.
:44:25. > :44:31.Within education and the parental home, is there not an awareness, a
:44:31. > :44:35.discussion? Even in education. If children are learning on computers
:44:35. > :44:40.now, there's also things which can be going with that from the
:44:40. > :44:46.beginning. It sounds like this almost no way of keeping kids away
:44:46. > :44:50.from these images. Lea focuses on one aspect and says ear-bashing
:44:50. > :44:57.should be banned because it shows something which is supposedly
:44:57. > :45:03.perfect but also unattainable. Rosi, what would you like to see
:45:03. > :45:10.changed? I am inherently against regulation. We can have a moral
:45:10. > :45:14.code, an eating disorder charity has cropper the code and have an
:45:14. > :45:19.arrangement with some media, they treat people with eating disorders
:45:19. > :45:25.in a more respectful way. We have a responsibility as a society. If you
:45:25. > :45:29.start regulating, you end up like China or a fascist state. We have
:45:29. > :45:34.to take responsibility for a more healthy society. I'm against
:45:34. > :45:41.regulation but for a moral code. it important for advertising to
:45:41. > :45:47.reflect all kinds of appearances? Yes, sure, that's important. The
:45:47. > :45:52.media is simply a reflection of us. They don't create stuff out of
:45:52. > :45:56.nothing. They reflect us. The most powerful and affecting people's
:45:57. > :46:06.perception of what is good and bad and beautiful and ugly is social
:46:07. > :46:07.
:46:07. > :46:12.media. Are you sure about that, really? Absolutely. Facebook has 1
:46:12. > :46:20.billion subscribers. This is driven by people for support we are
:46:20. > :46:25.responsible for a lot more. Is that fact? It's fact. From where?
:46:25. > :46:30.sheer size of the information. just don't think the media is a
:46:30. > :46:34.reflection on society. It goes both ways and his encyclical. Things are
:46:34. > :46:39.picked up from society but I also think something like the Daily Mail
:46:39. > :46:45.forms the way people think about stuff. I totally agree with that
:46:45. > :46:51.point, actually. We are all to blame, the media, us, and the media
:46:51. > :46:54.would like to say they held a mirror up to us but we are self-
:46:54. > :46:59.perpetuating this thing. We have to get back to basics and get people
:46:59. > :47:02.confident to make their own choices, and then we won't be driven down
:47:02. > :47:11.this path are feeling insecure about ourselves.
:47:11. > :47:15.The media are naughty sometimes. They have to sell papers,
:47:15. > :47:19.advertising, but you are denying the truth of how big social media
:47:19. > :47:24.has become. People are not looking at what is printed in the Daily
:47:24. > :47:28.Mail today, but looking at their friends are posting on their walls
:47:28. > :47:32.and what they are saying online. We have to take responsibility for
:47:32. > :47:37.ourselves and that's the way to go forward. It's a far more powerful
:47:37. > :47:42.way to live, take responsibility. member of the audience thought your
:47:42. > :47:47.book was not something she would like to read for I know the adverts
:47:47. > :47:50.were banned on the London Underground. It was crazy for that
:47:50. > :47:54.I didn't know about it at the time. They said was dangers because young
:47:54. > :47:59.people could walk past them or something. It's like if I vote
:47:59. > :48:04.there would jump near the Tube platform, will people jump onto the
:48:04. > :48:08.platform? People will not take health advice from a poster for the
:48:08. > :48:13.why are we dumbing-down are saying we need regulation? We're all
:48:13. > :48:18.bright and are living in the brightest era of human history.
:48:18. > :48:22.why did you call your book, How to get skinnier than your friends?
:48:22. > :48:27.gets people talking. People will pick up the book and learn about
:48:27. > :48:34.stuff. So you're dumbing-down and sane people have to be forced to
:48:34. > :48:39.pick up a book about health. presses on your insecurity, that's
:48:39. > :48:46.the problem and that insecurity has been foisted upon us by a vast
:48:46. > :48:52.commercial interest. Creative media has a lot to beat Port about. Films
:48:52. > :48:57.and TV, if they represented characters, a wider variety, that
:48:57. > :49:00.would influence the other media. The human species has an in-built
:49:00. > :49:07.desire to become better over a period of time which has made Abba
:49:07. > :49:13.species what it is today. Better as individuals. Dominic represent the
:49:13. > :49:17.advertising industry. So, what is the issue? Is it what we want and
:49:17. > :49:21.that's what we are being given or is the advertising industry
:49:21. > :49:30.responsible for telling us what to think? There are two things going
:49:30. > :49:36.on here. The media do in some ways, this programme reflects the media
:49:36. > :49:42.echo of what people believe, what they think and feel. Regulating the
:49:42. > :49:49.media, the press, television, means of regulating the people. Do people
:49:49. > :49:52.want to be regulated more? That picks up on Rosi's a very good
:49:52. > :49:58.point. She does not agree with it and I'm inclined to go along with
:49:58. > :50:08.that, too. Advertising potentially plays a part in the ear bashing
:50:08. > :50:17.issue. -- they're brushing. Our job in marketing is to make things look
:50:17. > :50:21.the best they can look. Without lying there. Of course. 5,000
:50:21. > :50:27.Photoshop images a week. Many ads had disclaimers saying images are
:50:27. > :50:32.digitally enhance to. Is that a lying? You could not create the
:50:32. > :50:37.image without deception. because the techniques used in film
:50:37. > :50:43.making and in photography, so any photographer could tell you it's
:50:43. > :50:49.extremely difficult accurately to take a picture of a red top and get
:50:49. > :50:54.that read absolutely right and true thought so that, when that is sent
:50:54. > :51:01.to print, it reflects exactly what the product is. It's not about
:51:01. > :51:07.changing the look of the person? Shaving of a woman's waste through
:51:07. > :51:12.a Photoshop so it is smaller than her head, which was extraordinary.
:51:12. > :51:20.We could all find extreme examples. That, to me, would sound like an
:51:20. > :51:27.extreme example of Bogota shopping and ear-bashing. Lots of Mazda's
:51:27. > :51:34.In. Jonathan says people should have commonsense to see what you
:51:34. > :51:42.see in advertisements is not reality. Young lady here. On the
:51:42. > :51:51.point of dumbing-down. Basically, we are in a fast-paced society and
:51:51. > :51:54.are fed the quickest solution so we don't really think too much. We are
:51:55. > :52:03.shown what is going to be in build in us, which provokes our thinking.
:52:03. > :52:10.Sometimes, what do you call it, brainwashing. Brainwashing is a
:52:10. > :52:13.good word. Let's go with that. Subliminal. If you thought about
:52:14. > :52:21.the logic, you would think twice, but because it is in your brain,
:52:21. > :52:27.and you're exposed to it so much, you don't think. OK, thank you.
:52:27. > :52:30.take issue same regulation has to equal going towards fascism. The
:52:30. > :52:34.media is an industry and their business is to make money and we
:52:34. > :52:37.must remember that might not be in our best interests and regulation
:52:37. > :52:45.can be there to regulate against areas where businesses, if left
:52:45. > :52:48.unchecked,... More common sense from the consumers, do you think?
:52:48. > :52:52.It's unfair to suggest people have to continue to remember that when
:52:52. > :52:58.they see pictures every day. only problem with regulation, and
:52:58. > :53:03.we have seen that with a police force, the City, a range of
:53:03. > :53:07.apparently good professions, if there's not a moral code, a social
:53:07. > :53:14.responsibility, people will always find a way round the regulation so
:53:14. > :53:18.how much more healthy? That's the opposite point of view. In the
:53:18. > :53:26.advertising industry there is the Advertising Standards which banner
:53:26. > :53:32.of fake adverts. Maybe that's not enough, then? This works in both
:53:32. > :53:38.ways. Advertising for cosmetic surgery I think it would be nice if
:53:38. > :53:41.99% of those models actually had no procedures. It is implied that
:53:41. > :53:47.those models have had something done at that clinic when most of
:53:47. > :53:52.them have had nothing done it. That needs to be corrected. You said how
:53:52. > :53:57.do you think it makes 16 year-olds feel? I am 16 and it does not
:53:57. > :54:06.affect me at all. Obviously, I look to people in the media, but I don't
:54:06. > :54:11.change my life because it... A lot of people. There's more people.
:54:11. > :54:14.There is more people, like, don't look at the media for I look like
:54:14. > :54:19.this because I look like that not because I saw some body in a
:54:19. > :54:24.magazine and one to look like them off. If I said I wanted a boob job,
:54:24. > :54:30.I would have one for me, not because I want to look like someone.
:54:30. > :54:35.Blaming the media are for something which is everything sport. We have
:54:35. > :54:40.to take responsibility. There's a little bit of support for you. If
:54:40. > :54:45.you don't want to read a book, don't read it. Chris says, we don't
:54:45. > :54:50.need more regulations. The public needs to think of itself and decide
:54:50. > :54:54.what is attractive. It's up to the individual to decide. When
:54:54. > :54:59.considering children, as hard as it may be, it's not the parents'
:54:59. > :55:08.responsibility to regulate what they are exposed to force a last
:55:08. > :55:17.look at the Power Bar. Sabrina, you have one of. Well done, so bring up.
:55:17. > :55:23.You have the final word. On the regulation, something should be
:55:23. > :55:27.regulated, there is only 0.5% of sponsorship going to women in sport
:55:27. > :55:31.and after the Olympics, you would think women would have more support
:55:32. > :55:35.in sport and they don't. 5% of media coverage is about female
:55:35. > :55:41.sports. If we had more of these female role-models which don't come
:55:41. > :55:48.down to their looks, this stuff would not matter anyway. Perfect.
:55:48. > :55:57.Thank you for being us -- with us this evening. Around the applause
:55:57. > :56:01.for the panel. Thank you. This is my last Free Speech so thank you
:56:01. > :56:04.for making it such a good one. The show is about to have a break, but
:56:04. > :56:09.it will be back next year on February 13th. And in the meantime,
:56:09. > :56:19.you'll find a whole lot more Free Speech online. Have a great
:56:19. > :56:19.
:56:19. > :56:24.Christmas and a happy new year. We If you fear you look good, you will
:56:24. > :56:27.feel good inside and everybody wants to feel like that. It's about
:56:27. > :56:32.natural beauty and not paying money to tweak yourself to feel more
:56:32. > :56:38.confident. If it means enhancing a little bit, I think it's acceptable
:56:38. > :56:42.as long as you feel a bit more sexy, cool. Taking care of myself,
:56:42. > :56:48.looking strong and fit and healthy. Body in it is the projection of
:56:48. > :56:51.your mind. It's something I would constantly have to think about.