:00:12. > :00:22.This is Free Speech, live from East London. Your chance to have your
:00:22. > :00:40.
:00:40. > :00:50.Police horse Razor, which I did ride.
:00:50. > :00:52.
:00:52. > :00:57.How excite something this? Good evening and welcome to the first
:00:57. > :01:01.ever Free Speech. I'm Jake Humphrey. Tonight we're live at Queen Mary,
:01:01. > :01:05.University of London in Mile End, with this gorgeous audience. Good
:01:05. > :01:08.everybody. Thank you for turning out this evening. Give yourself a
:01:09. > :01:13.round of applause. Tonight, the show revolves around you. It's
:01:13. > :01:19.their show, and it's your show. Join the debate at
:01:19. > :01:26.bbc.co.uk/FreeSpeech: We are on Facebook at
:01:26. > :01:36.Facebook.com/BBCFreeSpeech. On on Twitter at : you can use the
:01:36. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:43.hashtag Free Speech. Good evening Michelle. This is exciting, isn't
:01:43. > :01:47.it? I know. Look at our fashion forward audience. Great. All your
:01:47. > :01:52.friends? Of course, friends and family. The aim for tonight is to
:01:52. > :01:56.get people at home engaged and involved as possible. You will
:01:56. > :02:01.bring their messages and thoughts into here? I will speak on their
:02:01. > :02:05.behalf. All the people at home or online. Yeah, speak for them.
:02:05. > :02:13.Picking out my favourite messages and throwing them into the debate.
:02:14. > :02:19.Your day job is being a stand-up comedienne. You are used to being
:02:19. > :02:25.thrown messages? Yes, I'm a Brixton girl, bring it. A Brixton girl,
:02:25. > :02:31.love. It excited about tonight. We met Michelle and the audience, that
:02:31. > :02:33.leaves for mour people to introduce, they are tonight's panel. Radio
:02:33. > :02:36.One's newest DJ Gemma Cairney. One of East London's most successful
:02:36. > :02:39.sons, multi-millionaire entrepreneur, Dominic McVey. Taking
:02:39. > :02:45.a bread from polishing his BAFTA and starring in new film Payback
:02:45. > :02:48.Season, Adam Deacon. And Conservative MP and former TV
:02:48. > :02:53.presenter, Esther McVey, who is, she assures me, no relation to
:02:53. > :02:57.Dominic at all. That is your panel. APPLAUSE
:02:57. > :03:01.This is something that we are very excited about. Tonight, your
:03:01. > :03:05.opinion will be shared with us all via something that we are called
:03:05. > :03:15.the Power Bar. For example, just to give you an example. If you like
:03:15. > :03:15.
:03:15. > :03:21.what Gemma is saying, you have to add hashtag YES Gemma to any tweet
:03:21. > :03:30.you send in. The Power Bar will fire up. If you don't like what she
:03:30. > :03:36.is saying you add hashtag NO Gemma. The same for all the panellists.
:03:36. > :03:41.Innocent judgment, scary for the panel, powerful for you at home.
:03:41. > :03:44.You have already been shaping the show. What is firing you up is the
:03:44. > :03:47.benefits workfare. Young people on jobseeker's allowance doing work
:03:47. > :03:51.experience has been particularly controversial with protests across
:03:51. > :03:55.the country. Last weekend they turned ugly. This was the scene in
:03:55. > :04:05.Oxford Street which one person filmed his phone. Not nice to see.
:04:05. > :04:06.
:04:06. > :04:13.We will kick off with a question from Jamella. Are the schemes being
:04:13. > :04:16.used as free labour for employers. Your government brought this in?
:04:16. > :04:21.It's about opportunity and empowerment. It's important to know
:04:21. > :04:25.how the scheme came about. Prior to this, which is an overarching
:04:25. > :04:29.scheme, should you have done work experience for two weeks you would
:04:29. > :04:34.have lost your benefit altogether. It was a piecemeal sporadic way to
:04:34. > :04:38.do work experience. We said, OK, how will we do it to give more
:04:38. > :04:41.opportunities to more people and also work with employers? A lot of
:04:41. > :04:46.employers would say, the youth of today aren't work ready. We said,
:04:46. > :04:50.no, that is not the case. Help them do work experience. See if you like
:04:51. > :04:55.them. Then employ them. I tell you one thing, me, personally, if I
:04:55. > :05:00.hadn't been able to have done work experience, if I hadn't had the
:05:00. > :05:03.opportunity, I would never have got into the very first job and my
:05:03. > :05:07.future career. I fully endorse it. I believe we need to support. It
:05:07. > :05:12.you keep your benefits. You get transport costs. We give childcare
:05:12. > :05:16.costs. It's a way to say, look at me, please give me a go.
:05:16. > :05:20.APPLAUSE What do you think? Theed aience
:05:20. > :05:24.seem to agree? I'm interested in the type of companies offering this
:05:24. > :05:30.work experience. When I did more research, a lot of them are places
:05:30. > :05:36.were you don't necessarily need skills. They are big companies that
:05:36. > :05:40.can definitely afford to pay people a decent wage. That I'm a little
:05:40. > :05:46.bit confused about. APPLAUSE
:05:46. > :05:52.OK. Well, I think, there are a few companies that got the publicity.
:05:52. > :05:55.If you are talking the big retail, added to that, there is IT,
:05:55. > :05:59.manufacturing, there is 200 small companies or smaller companies now
:05:59. > :06:03.that have come on board. There is an opportunity in every single way.
:06:03. > :06:07.Now, I'm also a business person who has given work experience to
:06:07. > :06:10.somebody. I think what you also need to take into account. If you
:06:10. > :06:14.are doing work experience properly, you have to support that person.
:06:14. > :06:17.You have to have opportunities in place. You have to other members of
:06:17. > :06:23.staff paying for that. Sometimes you need a bigger organisation that
:06:23. > :06:27.has the infrastructure to do that. Can I also say, any free person I
:06:27. > :06:34.know who has succeeded in the job they have done, they started on the
:06:34. > :06:40.shop floor. I don't care if it was Terry from less Coe or Stuart Rose
:06:40. > :06:44.at marks and Spencer. That is when there was jobs for life. That is
:06:44. > :06:48.not any more. Going back to Gemma's point, that is what it is. You are
:06:48. > :06:53.telling young people to go out there, work at jobs were you are
:06:53. > :06:56.not offering major opportunity to go on and go forward. What I'm
:06:56. > :07:00.saying... Basically, what you are saying, right, what it seems like
:07:00. > :07:05.to me, I think, sorry, a lot of young people out there. Young
:07:05. > :07:10.people are not silly, isn't it? They know when you are given an
:07:10. > :07:14.opportunity. They know when it's, kind of, work. Free labour. Right.
:07:14. > :07:18.It's clear. It's clear, basically, you need to offer young people
:07:18. > :07:22.opportunity that they know is going to lead to something, you know
:07:23. > :07:26.that... To better their life. They will not do free work. It's up to
:07:26. > :07:31.everybody to grasp an opportunity and take it forward. When I started
:07:31. > :07:34.with work experience it was a week here, it was a week there. I was
:07:34. > :07:40.making coffees. Because it gave me an opportunity to go into a
:07:40. > :07:47.business. I found out who to apply for jobs for. What they needed me
:07:47. > :07:51.to do. Were you getting paid? put money into it to stay in
:07:51. > :07:55.Birmingham, London and Manchester. It's an opportunity, take it with
:07:55. > :07:58.both hands. Dominic is the perfect man to come to. That is what you
:07:58. > :08:02.did. As a teenager you took an opportunity and grabbed it with
:08:02. > :08:05.both hands. Does this scheme by the Government after offer that
:08:05. > :08:12.opportunity to young people? don't think it does. The Government
:08:12. > :08:15.did not think this process through. Adam has rightly said, they have
:08:15. > :08:17.companies that young people have no interest in. If the Government
:08:17. > :08:20.wanted to give people experience it could have thought it through
:08:20. > :08:27.better and say, what about the charities that need volunteers?
:08:27. > :08:31.What about the Big Society that Cameron is going on about? He gives
:08:31. > :08:37.work experience, opportunities to large corporations which are taking
:08:37. > :08:41.away, you know, the independence of small communities in areas were
:08:41. > :08:48.Esther was working in small shops, getting an idea. Working with shop
:08:48. > :08:52.owners. Making coffees for people who had an influence as opposed to
:08:52. > :08:55.stacking shelves with coffee beans. When you start a scheme which has
:08:55. > :08:58.never existed before. Nobody has had this before. You have to start
:08:58. > :09:01.somewhere. You put the infrastructure in place with
:09:01. > :09:06.companies nationally who can help you. Now, we have more companies
:09:06. > :09:10.than ever before because they heard about it and say, we want to get
:09:10. > :09:15.involved, small companies, charities, voluntary groups. They
:09:15. > :09:20.want to get involved because they are getting people to work for free.
:09:20. > :09:26.As things stand it at the moment on the Power Bar, Adam and Dominic are
:09:26. > :09:32.flying. Esther is struggling. Lots of people here started talking here
:09:32. > :09:38.as Esther was talking. I agree with Adam and Dom, these opportunities
:09:38. > :09:43.can't be tokenistic. I ran a campaign called Ready For Work, we
:09:43. > :09:49.spoke to hundreds of young people, it has to be of interest to them.
:09:49. > :09:53.The Government have to gate grip. Why don't we go back to bankers'
:09:53. > :09:57.bonuses. If we taxed the bankers we could give young companies the
:09:57. > :10:02.money and financial incentive to give the young people the
:10:03. > :10:07.opportunities they want, not a tick box exercise that will win votes in
:10:07. > :10:11.the future. Thank you very much. Another question from this young
:10:11. > :10:15.lady here. I'm Terri. You are calling this an "opportunity" why
:10:15. > :10:21.don't you ask young people what they want to do, then try and give
:10:21. > :10:27.them that opportunity then? Well, actually, you do get asked, do you
:10:27. > :10:30.want to do it? Also what sphere of work would you like to go into.
:10:30. > :10:33.It's also voluntary if you do or don't want to do. It like I said,
:10:33. > :10:37.you start somewhere and you move forward with. That you get work
:10:37. > :10:40.experience. You might say, as I did, I thought I would work in
:10:40. > :10:45.restaurants. I worked there for a while and I thought, actually, I
:10:45. > :10:49.don't want to do this. It's just as important to say, no, I don't, yes
:10:49. > :10:55.I do. It is a steppingstone. Life is difficult. It's about stepping
:10:55. > :11:00.stones. Actually, it's not that we don't get to choose to do it. If we
:11:00. > :11:07.don't do it our benefits get stopped. No, they don't. No, they
:11:07. > :11:12.don't. That's wrong. That's wrong. They do not. It's a voluntary
:11:12. > :11:14.scheme. You keep your benefits. You get your transport costs. If
:11:14. > :11:21.anybody needs childcare you get that too. There is misinformation
:11:21. > :11:24.out there. You d not lose your benefits. That's incorrect. I think
:11:24. > :11:29.it's embarrassing to offer someone work experience stacking shelves
:11:29. > :11:33.for free. APPLAUSE
:11:33. > :11:39.This Government have been one of the best governments out there that
:11:39. > :11:43.love to spin it, like. They are so good at talking. They don't listen
:11:43. > :11:48.to young people. From day one, since they come in, they are not
:11:48. > :11:51.listening to young people. They spin. It they get the best way of
:11:52. > :11:57.putting, we do listen and do this and that. They don't, the proof is
:11:57. > :12:01.in the pudding. So many young people feel like they are not being
:12:01. > :12:05.heard. Adam say there is is lots of spin out there. This is not spin
:12:05. > :12:08.that you are about to see. Terri and some friends have created a
:12:08. > :12:16.video. That is what it's like to be on benefits in this country and
:12:16. > :12:19.looking for work. In the UK, 1.5 million young people aged between
:12:19. > :12:29.16-24 are unemployed. One in five are not in full-time education,
:12:29. > :12:31.
:12:32. > :12:37.work or training. I have been searching for a job since July
:12:37. > :12:42.12011. I have applied for simple jobs like food packaging and I get
:12:42. > :12:46.no reply. I think to myself, is there a point in me trying? I go to
:12:46. > :12:56.the Jobcentre, they don't help much. All they do is sign my book and
:12:56. > :13:03.
:13:03. > :13:09.tell me to come back in two weeks. I'm 20, I'm a young mum. I'm on
:13:09. > :13:14.benefits, this isn't my choice. When I've been on job interviews
:13:14. > :13:17.I've been told no because I have a choild, so it would make me
:13:17. > :13:26.unreliable. It's so hard to be on benefits, especially having to
:13:26. > :13:29.support two people. I feel trapped. I'm 19. I have a job, which the
:13:29. > :13:32.contract ends in the next couple of months, which is a six-month
:13:32. > :13:38.contract. I only got that job because my friend offered it to me.
:13:38. > :13:43.After this contract, I'm left with no trade. I'm left as I started,
:13:43. > :13:47.back to nothing. How am I expected to survive like this? Most people
:13:47. > :13:51.will say the Jobcentre. I have been to the Jobcentre, they don't help
:13:51. > :13:58.me. I know plenty of people going through the same thing I'm doing.
:13:58. > :14:03.What options are there for me as a young person in this day and age?
:14:03. > :14:06.David Cameron has said if you come work, then you should work and the
:14:06. > :14:14.government will help you find work. As you have seen, it's not as
:14:14. > :14:18.simple as that, is it? There you go. Four stories, four disillusions
:14:18. > :14:25.people. We have Franklin and Eliza this evening. We are keen to hear
:14:25. > :14:29.both of you. Franklin. I'm of the opinion that the Government should
:14:29. > :14:34.be helping people get jobs. They should be helping people be
:14:34. > :14:38.funneled into higher positions not just stacking shelves. They should
:14:38. > :14:45.be learning trades for young people. I would never let this discredit
:14:45. > :14:50.the fact that society is somewhat meritcratic. We as young people
:14:50. > :14:52.should be on the internet looking for opportunities your self-we
:14:52. > :15:02.shouldn't defuse responsibility to the government because it is our
:15:02. > :15:07.Do you look for those opportunities? Yes, I do. I am
:15:08. > :15:12.studying sociology at LSE. That was having decided not to study at
:15:12. > :15:15.Cambridge University. I have been writing for the Guardian, so the
:15:15. > :15:21.opportunities are available and it is for us to take it upon ourselves
:15:21. > :15:24.to go out there and look for opportunities. Very good. Give us
:15:24. > :15:33.some idea of the things that you are doing to create an opportunity
:15:33. > :15:37.for yourself. I own a campaign called Live slot Knives. I train
:15:37. > :15:40.young people to be mentors to work in primary schools and secondary
:15:40. > :15:46.schools with me to talk about the dangers of getting involved in
:15:46. > :15:51.knife crime and gun crime. That has a lot to do with benefit cuts as
:15:51. > :15:54.well, I think. I think that the social change affects us,
:15:54. > :15:59.especially what I am doing in my community. If there are
:15:59. > :16:03.opportunities out there, do you think you can find them? I think
:16:03. > :16:06.also you have to make your own opportunity and lots of young
:16:06. > :16:10.people look for opportunities when they could make their own because
:16:10. > :16:15.they have the business might to do it. If you would like to get
:16:15. > :16:19.involved as well then you can get involved on Twitter. You can use
:16:19. > :16:23.the Power Bar. At the moment, Dominic and Adam are resonating
:16:23. > :16:26.with the audience. Esther is fighting hard on behalf of the
:16:26. > :16:34.Government and struggling for popularity at the moment. Don't
:16:34. > :16:38.worry! The night is yet young. You can add the hashtag no or yes and
:16:38. > :16:42.the name of your panellist if you do not like something. Don't just
:16:42. > :16:49.shout at the television, let us know what to think. Michelle, what
:16:49. > :16:54.is happening are mine? And nice way to round up this chap, Tim says
:16:54. > :16:59.that the Workfare campaign, when people get engaged, we can make
:17:00. > :17:07.things happen. Better than the MPs and the Piers can. I think a round
:17:07. > :17:13.of applause for that. Is it as busy and fiery online as it is in the
:17:13. > :17:19.studio? It is going off! That is good. Get involved if you are
:17:19. > :17:23.wrapped home. Let's move on to a new topic. Research released this
:17:23. > :17:27.week shows that cycling injuries in London have trebled in the last six
:17:27. > :17:34.years and it is not just London. But that this. This was caught on
:17:34. > :17:38.CCTV. It is a bus driver in Bristol going out of his way to hit the
:17:38. > :17:44.cyclist because they had had an argument. The cyclist's leg was
:17:44. > :17:48.broken. The bus driver went to jail for 17 months. Online, our top five,
:17:48. > :17:57.the five topics most important to you, as had so many different
:17:57. > :18:03.points of view when it comes to cycle safety. We will talk about
:18:03. > :18:08.that. First, Jeanette was prepared to risk life and limb to take to
:18:08. > :18:13.the roads with no training. -- chairman. Should there be a law
:18:13. > :18:23.against people like me cycling in the street? I want to cycle to work
:18:23. > :18:25.
:18:25. > :18:29.I think there should be more training available. I don't
:18:29. > :18:36.necessarily think it should be compulsory. I end up the lane. It
:18:36. > :18:43.is so hard. When sandwiched between a bus and a lorry and I am so small.
:18:43. > :18:47.I feel really scared. This tiny little bicycle and this rubbish
:18:47. > :18:53.helmet and a jacket are not going to protect me against a massive
:18:54. > :18:59.lorry. The more cyclists there are, the safer the city is. The beauty
:18:59. > :19:07.of the bicycle is that it is simple and it is not regulated.
:19:07. > :19:17.I don't know where I am meant to be. The white van man will kill me. I
:19:17. > :19:20.
:19:20. > :19:23.# Just hold on. If there was more regulation, I
:19:23. > :19:29.think people would not cycle as much because it would be too
:19:30. > :19:37.complex. I rub! From my experience today, training should be
:19:37. > :19:41.obligatory. I would like to know more before I did that ever again.
:19:41. > :19:47.Very good. I like that when you arrive that Radio One you thought
:19:47. > :19:51.you had made it and that lorry appeared! Lovely bicycle! And it is
:19:51. > :19:58.actually mind. Everybody thought I had got it to look rubbish but it
:19:58. > :20:03.is my fault up! Give us an idea what it is like to cycle through
:20:03. > :20:11.London? Horrible. I liked the idea that if there are more cyclists
:20:11. > :20:17.bent it will be a safer place, and we will be fit and healthy. But if
:20:17. > :20:21.you don't know the rules, and you do not drive like me, and you
:20:21. > :20:27.failed your cycling proficiency at high school, then I am a calamity!
:20:27. > :20:31.How can I be allowed out there? That is what I am saying. Again it
:20:31. > :20:35.is the Government doing something, right, telling people to leave
:20:35. > :20:39.their cars at home and get on the bicycle. At the same time, London
:20:39. > :20:43.is London. There are small roads everywhere and drivers get
:20:43. > :20:48.frustrated. Saying you can put more cyclist out there and that will
:20:48. > :20:53.solve it, and I am being honest, I am not against bicycles, but in
:20:53. > :21:00.your car you get bombarded by cyclists around your car. Seriously,
:21:00. > :21:05.I swear to God. They lean against your car. Some woman must have been
:21:05. > :21:08.riding and basically scraped my car and thought she could write off. If
:21:08. > :21:13.that was in a car, you could not get away with that but she got out
:21:13. > :21:17.of it. Some cyclists here have got a right to reply. Just one more
:21:17. > :21:23.point? They should have to follow the code of the road. At the moment
:21:23. > :21:26.they do whatever they want. If you kill someone, you know what I am
:21:26. > :21:31.saying? It is not the same for drivers. I don't know the rules of
:21:31. > :21:37.the road. Nobody does. Some people do. It looks like you might have
:21:37. > :21:41.cycled here this evening. Show us! I brought this into show what I do
:21:41. > :21:46.to feel safe because I only started cycling when I went to university
:21:46. > :21:50.abating. I was really scared about being on the roads and I am scared
:21:50. > :21:53.of being on the roads in London. What makes me secure is knowing
:21:53. > :22:00.that if somebody hits me then there is no way they can get away with it
:22:00. > :22:05.and so they cannot see me. -- say they cannot see me. I have lights
:22:05. > :22:12.on the front and back of my bicycle and the Talmud. I stuck stickers on
:22:12. > :22:16.it, you can get them on eBay. -- and the helmet. Who is going to
:22:16. > :22:22.wear that? This is for your rucksack and it is fantastic. It is
:22:22. > :22:25.not just the law and understand in what is going on, there is also
:22:25. > :22:29.sustainable transport people. They have built the National Cycle
:22:30. > :22:34.Network. It does not work. They have done loads of free training
:22:35. > :22:39.for cyclists that do not understand how to conduct themselves. A lot of
:22:39. > :22:45.people would get angry with me, but I am the party pooper, and it
:22:45. > :22:48.should be obligatory. I think for your safety, yes. I am so ignorant
:22:48. > :22:53.and there are people like me that failed their Cycling proficiency
:22:53. > :23:03.that should not be allowed on the roads. Let's hear from James. Off
:23:03. > :23:03.
:23:03. > :23:07.you go. Meek James? I have been riding for a few years. I ride from
:23:07. > :23:11.South London to commute to work. I have not got the magical
:23:11. > :23:15.superhighways, anything like that on my route. It is about learning
:23:15. > :23:20.what you are doing, I agree. If you are completely new, it is scary and
:23:20. > :23:25.there are lots of big lorries. The big ones are assertive. They are
:23:25. > :23:29.monsters! That is not all motorists but there are people that get very
:23:29. > :23:36.aggressive and angry. Some cyclists bring it on themselves. Leaving on
:23:36. > :23:40.your car is not OK. The Government is against the car. Seriously. As a
:23:40. > :23:45.driver, you feel you are getting fined and you cannot park and to
:23:45. > :23:48.get frustrated and then the cyclists come. There has to be
:23:48. > :23:53.fairness on the road. London struggles with congestion and
:23:53. > :24:01.pollution. How do you find a happy balance as the Government?
:24:01. > :24:07.happy balance, I suppose, is if people want to do it, and Boris did
:24:07. > :24:12.it well with the bicycle, and they are extending it tomorrow, 50,000
:24:12. > :24:15.docking stations out here, but at the end of the day it must be about
:24:15. > :24:22.personal choice. I don't particularly right, I am a
:24:22. > :24:25.pedestrian and I walk everywhere. - - I don't particularly cycle. You
:24:25. > :24:30.do have to know the code of the road and you have to understand
:24:30. > :24:34.there are cars, people and trucks. I think it is important for someone
:24:34. > :24:38.like London to have, not an arbitrary cycling proficiency test,
:24:38. > :24:43.but a proper one going forward. I also believe one heavy goods
:24:43. > :24:47.vehicles are doing their licensing if there are more cyclists on the
:24:47. > :24:53.road, they should have a greater obligation to the dangers around
:24:53. > :24:57.them. But it is personal choice and responsibility. Dominic? I think
:24:57. > :25:00.the Barclays bicycles are the great initiative but how the hell can you
:25:00. > :25:08.put it 1000 bicycles on the road and not tell people to wear
:25:08. > :25:12.helmets? -- 8000 bicycles. It is crazy. I will never forget this. It
:25:12. > :25:17.epitomises it. I was walking through Soho Square, a sunny
:25:17. > :25:26.afternoon, and I saw a drunk woman on a Boris bikes. She was having a
:25:26. > :25:29.time of her life in heels. Can I be honest? They did not care about
:25:29. > :25:34.getting an people to ride the bike because if they did, they would not
:25:34. > :25:40.design it with a Barclays advert. Who is going to write that? Young
:25:40. > :25:44.people will not be seen dead on that. I know that you are against
:25:44. > :25:49.the Government, and to say that about everything, but it does have
:25:50. > :25:57.to be about the individual. They were sponsored, that is why.
:25:57. > :26:01.Government never takes responsibility. Have you ever seen
:26:01. > :26:05.any young people riding one of those Barclays bikes? It is only
:26:05. > :26:10.one type of one person and I am being honest, the trendy business
:26:10. > :26:14.person that has jumped on it. is five. They are being used and
:26:14. > :26:21.they are successful. -- that is fine. If people have better bikes,
:26:21. > :26:25.use them. 27,000 people were killed or seriously injured in 10 years.
:26:25. > :26:32.You think cyclists need more training, it looked like people at
:26:32. > :26:38.home do not agree with you. That is because they are better than me!
:26:38. > :26:45.There are other people that should not be allowed without training.
:26:45. > :26:48.lot of it comes down to common sense. You see cyclists on their
:26:48. > :26:53.telephones, in a long skirt, no helmets, pitch black, no lights,
:26:53. > :26:57.wrong way up a one-way street. The lorries do not want to kill the
:26:57. > :27:01.cyclists but they do not know you are there if they cannot see you.
:27:01. > :27:04.think helmet safety is really important. I have loads of friends
:27:04. > :27:09.that cycle and I get so angry with anyone I know that does not wear
:27:09. > :27:13.one. It is stupidity. It is an emotive subject and I will be
:27:13. > :27:17.interested to hear what people at home make of this conversation.
:27:17. > :27:22.Lots of people agreeing with you, Gemma, and saying that people
:27:22. > :27:28.should have to take a cycle proficiency test. After seeing you
:27:29. > :27:35.do Jeremy Clarkson on two wheels, I agree! I also think that it is
:27:35. > :27:40.worth saying that if there could be some cool cycle helmets out there...
:27:40. > :27:46.You have to make it appeal to young people. Get rid of the Barclays
:27:46. > :27:51.logo and all that. So who pays if you get rid of the sponsorship?
:27:51. > :27:54.Let's be honest, I will be so real with you, we have had two subjects
:27:54. > :28:02.so far on this programme and I think people care more about the
:28:02. > :28:08.benefits than the cyclone. What I am on the stage, I want to go back.
:28:08. > :28:12.-- than the cycling. With the benefits, what we have done, it
:28:12. > :28:17.seems like we are punishing the poorer class of society all the
:28:17. > :28:20.time. That is what we are doing. which goes, we have to move on.
:28:20. > :28:24.This is relevant, if you are talking about punishing people that
:28:24. > :28:27.cannot afford things, it cheap alcohol. That might not be
:28:27. > :28:33.something that we can talk about for much longer if David Cameron
:28:33. > :28:37.has his way. Minimum prices for alcohol are being planned. Let's
:28:37. > :28:47.have a look at this. I have got a bottle of own brand vodka. What
:28:47. > :28:47.
:28:48. > :28:56.would you pay for this? �5? �8? �4? At the moment this costs �8.35.
:28:56. > :28:59.Under the Government's plans this would go from �8.35 up to �11.85.
:28:59. > :29:04.And I am afraid that is not all. Interesting that people are
:29:04. > :29:14.clapping that and we will find out why in a moment. For back of lager,
:29:14. > :29:16.
:29:16. > :29:22.how much? �2. -- four pack of lager. At the moment it costs �3 and it
:29:22. > :29:27.would cost an extra �1 under the Government's schemes. And the old
:29:27. > :29:35.favourite in the summer, in a pint glass with some eyes, strong cider.
:29:35. > :29:44.Give us a price. How much? �1? You are not far off. At the moment, one
:29:44. > :29:48.pound 20. This would go up to �3.75. The Government wants to introduce a
:29:48. > :29:58.minimum of 45 pence per unit of alcohol. Is it the right thing to
:29:58. > :30:00.
:30:00. > :30:07.do? Let go straight to the audience Is it time we include alcohol in
:30:07. > :30:09.the misuse of drugs act 1971? wants to go first? When it comes to
:30:09. > :30:15.this whole alcohol thing. In Britain, yeah, we have always been
:30:15. > :30:18.a country, isn't it, of drinkers. That has always been like. That you
:30:18. > :30:21.need to... I do not believe that putting a couple of pound on
:30:21. > :30:26.alcohol will do anything. Young people are going to... If they are
:30:27. > :30:32.going to drink, right, they will get the drink. They will do that.
:30:32. > :30:38.The lower class, the poorer people getting taxed. I was doing a job in
:30:38. > :30:42.Manchester, yeah. It was... There were kids running around drunk. It
:30:42. > :30:46.was the more upper class kids going crazy. I'm not saying all the time.
:30:46. > :30:51.All young people go out and get drunk. Why would you only, kind of,
:30:51. > :30:57.target the people who can't afford. They will find it hard to be able
:30:57. > :31:01.to buy the alcohol. You need to, basically, get into young people's
:31:01. > :31:05.minds and ask them why they feel that, at the moment there are young
:31:05. > :31:10.people who have the mind frame of work, in a kind of rubbish job they
:31:10. > :31:17.are not feeling. They go out at the weekend and get themselves... They
:31:17. > :31:25.don't want to get tipsy, they want to get drunk. It doesn't make sense
:31:25. > :31:29.what so ever. People are looking at the alcohol strategy. How it comes
:31:29. > :31:36.about is various things. Professor Ian Gilmore who studied alcohol and
:31:36. > :31:41.its effects for many years. He said if minimum pricing went up to 50p
:31:41. > :31:48.it could save 10,000 lives a year. That is were it comes from. At the
:31:48. > :31:51.moment it's costing the country �20 billion for the side affects and
:31:52. > :31:54.also the affect to the body. It's costing Accident & Emergency �1
:31:55. > :32:01.billion and the NHS �3 billion. We are saying, how are we going to
:32:01. > :32:07.have a safe, you know, better society? How will we stop binge
:32:07. > :32:12.drinking? I don't think it's about increasing the cost. I think it's
:32:12. > :32:16.about awareness and why are you, or people, getting drunk and binge
:32:16. > :32:22.drinking? Awareness is a key thing so people can choose what they want.
:32:22. > :32:30.The money you are going to raise, this stealth tax... It is not
:32:30. > :32:35.stealth tax. If it saves 10,000 lives a year like Professor Ian
:32:35. > :32:40.Gilmore said... She said my point doesn't make sense. It does make
:32:40. > :32:46.sense what I'm saying. You need to get into young people's minds as to
:32:46. > :32:50.why they want to get so drunk. It's about time you legalised cannabis
:32:50. > :32:55.and you, basically... APPLAUSE
:32:55. > :33:01.I say that because young people will do these things. They are
:33:01. > :33:06.going to do it. We need to ask you guys. You guys are really important.
:33:06. > :33:09.Take a look, this is about getting into young people's minds, Dominic,
:33:09. > :33:14.Adam people loving what you are saying. Esther people not at the
:33:14. > :33:17.moment. I'm keen to hear from the audience. A few questions from here.
:33:17. > :33:22.I think alcohol is a problem in this country. I don't think it's
:33:22. > :33:26.the young people it is a problem with. I think that the majority of
:33:26. > :33:31.people who are alcoholics aren't people sitting in this audience.
:33:31. > :33:34.The people are older. We need to combat is how and why are those
:33:34. > :33:39.people alcoholics? If young people want to go to a festival and get
:33:39. > :33:43.drunk, I think that is fine. People need those learning curvings when
:33:43. > :33:48.they get smashed,, "I will not do that again". That is when people go
:33:48. > :33:53.to hospital. Usually the deaths from alcohol isn't young people.
:33:53. > :33:57.It's older people who are severe alcoholics who have done in their
:33:57. > :34:04.liver for many years, probably 50 years old. You need to tack tl not
:34:04. > :34:09.from putting the price up. That will not do anything. Acute toxify
:34:09. > :34:15.kaition has doubled from 200 to now. A lot of it is young kid, whether
:34:15. > :34:20.it's at university binge drinking. It's about awareness and why you
:34:20. > :34:26.are doing it. I agree with that. You start off by saying, "we have
:34:26. > :34:32.always been a nation of big drinkers" I am saying, what is the
:34:32. > :34:35.best way forward? A couple of pound the kids will find it. I agree.
:34:35. > :34:39.won't do anything it won't change anything. It has to be a thing
:34:39. > :34:43.about awareness and understanding. I agree with you, not only will you
:34:43. > :34:47.find the extra couple of kids will you have a few more drinks before
:34:47. > :34:51.you go out which will be self- defeating. You have to look at it
:34:51. > :34:55.in the round. Not only young people, as you made that point, a lot of
:34:55. > :34:59.people in general are not happy. They are going out to get
:34:59. > :35:08.themselves messed up. That is what they want to do. They want to get
:35:08. > :35:13.as drunk as they can. Escapism. Someone shouted out, "excuses".
:35:13. > :35:17.There was a lot of deregulation with alcohol during the Blair years.
:35:17. > :35:20.Facilitating binge drinking is what happened when you see the price of
:35:20. > :35:23.alcohol go down. I realise people are frustrated and they want to
:35:23. > :35:29.have a good time. We need to do something to try and reach a level
:35:29. > :35:34.were people are more aware of their drinking patterns. We do.
:35:34. > :35:38.Cigarettes at �7 a pack, people are still buying. What cut down the
:35:38. > :35:42.smoking, taking cigarettes out of the bars, clubs and restaurants
:35:42. > :35:49.impacting our social lives have reduced the amount of people
:35:49. > :35:55.smoking, not them being �7. If you want to smoke you will spend �7 a
:35:55. > :35:59.pack. Price increases won't stop us drinking. If you are spending more
:36:00. > :36:04.money you will think about what you are buying. You might not spend �2
:36:04. > :36:11.on the most disgusting cider that will make you puke for the whole
:36:11. > :36:16.night. Could it work? I think it could. I know we are all talking
:36:16. > :36:26.quite emotive, emotions are leading up. If the guy who spent ten years,
:36:26. > :36:27.
:36:27. > :36:31.professor Ian Gilmore said we would save 10,000 lives a year why are we
:36:31. > :36:37.poohpooing it. Now to the guys at home. Someone who sounds like they
:36:37. > :36:43.are on the sauce it's AJ who says, "who cares about alcohol prices,
:36:43. > :36:49.it's not even that serious ?" There is also, I think you might like
:36:50. > :36:58.this, Esther, Steve says, "dringe a bottle of cheep booze, get on your
:36:58. > :37:03.bike and ride to the Jobcentre ." Then lastly, sorry, Tom says,
:37:03. > :37:08."expensive booze will make us all skint. I have to say it might get
:37:08. > :37:16.in the way of our kebab money as well". Let's hear from people in
:37:16. > :37:21.the audience. I know that alcohol is wrong because a lot of people, a
:37:21. > :37:30.lot of young people, they will start becoming, like, going to
:37:30. > :37:36.hospital more because of the limit of how much they taking alcohol.
:37:36. > :37:42.It's the limit of the alcohol they take it in. I don't know... They go
:37:42. > :37:47.on the bottles then, cans, the limits of how much they can take.
:37:47. > :37:51.Like, it's the units. Let's hear from someone who think it is could
:37:51. > :37:55.work? Put your hand up if you think it's a scheme who could work for
:37:55. > :37:57.people. Over there. I think it could work. I think if people go
:37:57. > :38:02.out and people haven't got the money, then people aren't going to
:38:02. > :38:06.go out and spend the money. Were I come from there is a bus that sits
:38:06. > :38:10.out and look after the drunks and vulnerable on a Friday and Saturday
:38:10. > :38:13.night. The people on a Friday and Saturday night have gone down
:38:13. > :38:16.because people don't have the money to spend it on alcohol. The amount
:38:16. > :38:20.of people who go to Accident & Emergency in my town has dropped
:38:20. > :38:24.because people don't go out because they can't afford to. One last
:38:24. > :38:28.comment. You look like you disagree. Isn't that ignoring all of the
:38:28. > :38:33.people who can afford it? That is only dealing with half of the
:38:33. > :38:37.problem. How is that a good solution, that's stupid? The answer
:38:37. > :38:47.to this is that we will agree to disagree. If you are at home and
:38:47. > :38:51.
:38:51. > :38:55.you want to get involved, get in Now then, we will move tonne our
:38:55. > :39:00.next topic. This is inspired by Tinea Taylor who uploaded this
:39:00. > :39:05.video on to our website about her feelings about lads mags and body
:39:05. > :39:10.image. We look at the media, music videos and think they are amazing.
:39:10. > :39:14.We open a lads mag and see a tall, legy blonde with perfectly shaped
:39:14. > :39:19.breasts, legs with no cellulite. Tiny waste waist and a flat stomach
:39:19. > :39:26.and think, "she looks amazing, that is what I need to look like". You
:39:26. > :39:30.look in the mirror and that is Knott what you look like. You think,
:39:30. > :39:34.I don't look attractive. That is not perfection. That is not what
:39:34. > :39:40.the media are painting as perfection. You have girls as young
:39:40. > :39:43.as 11 who are bulimic and anorexia starving themselves to fit these
:39:43. > :39:47.ideals. These sterotypes have been going around for 30 to 40 years,
:39:47. > :39:51.it's time for a change. They need to paint images of real women.
:39:51. > :40:00.Women who are curvier, not so perfect, not so glamorous because
:40:00. > :40:05.that's not what the average woman looks like. There you go. A Free
:40:05. > :40:10.Speech viewer. You can do that at home as well. We have re-set the
:40:10. > :40:17.power bars. Let's find out what you think about this topic and what you
:40:17. > :40:23.think about our panel at home. question is, is there any place for
:40:23. > :40:26.Page 3 and lad mags in today's modern society? Dominic, would you
:40:26. > :40:31.like to explain to us the magazine that you are involved with and talk
:40:31. > :40:35.us through that? I'm the proud possible blusher of the magazine
:40:36. > :40:40.called front fron. It has been around for 11 or 12 years. A few
:40:40. > :40:45.fans in the room? I'm sure there are a few riders. They maybe don't
:40:45. > :40:49.want to quite admit it. You know, is there space in society? Front I
:40:50. > :40:54.wouldn't class as a lads mag. The magazines that I think that are
:40:54. > :41:01.causing the affects on women are the female gossip magazines that
:41:01. > :41:07.are saying, "she put on 30 kie kilos, she has lost 20 kilos".
:41:07. > :41:11.Women don't read lads mags. They don't go out there and pick them up
:41:11. > :41:16.and look at the women. Most of the girls in our magazine are sub
:41:16. > :41:21.mitting their pictures regularly. They are normal girls, all shapes
:41:21. > :41:30.and sighss. There is everything in Front magazine. Female gossip
:41:30. > :41:33.magazines are telling you how to lose 20 kilos within two weeks. We
:41:34. > :41:38.don't do that. We praise and celebrate the women that are in our
:41:38. > :41:46.magazine. All sorts of women, or a certain time? All sorts of women.
:41:46. > :41:56.Would you put me on the front cover? Have you applied? No, I am
:41:56. > :41:56.
:41:56. > :42:01.aentreeged. Are you applying now? No. I don't see myself as a
:42:01. > :42:04.conventional beauty. You are beautiful. Thank you. That
:42:04. > :42:08.conventional sexy, glamour... real note, there will be so many
:42:08. > :42:13.guys out there that will see you Gemma and think you are beautiful.
:42:13. > :42:18.There would be, right. That is why you need other girls on these front
:42:18. > :42:27.covers. It's clear the people at home think you are beautiful look
:42:27. > :42:31.at your Power Bar. Let's hear from our audience. Shereece. Off you go.
:42:31. > :42:37.Tell us your story. I don't think that is supposed to be me? Have you
:42:37. > :42:43.something you would like to say? Yes I do. I don't think we should
:42:43. > :42:46.put emphasis on lads mags. We are getting it from Hollyoaks. I will
:42:46. > :42:54.never be on. It I'm curvy, not the front face of something like that
:42:54. > :42:58.or a magazine. What I did love was the Ann Summer's campaign. They had
:42:58. > :43:03.women of all shapes and sizes. I thought that was beautiful. I
:43:03. > :43:10.thought that is what we need to do more. Shops and fashion side of it
:43:10. > :43:15.more involved. That is what women are concentrated on rather than
:43:15. > :43:20.lads mags. I was Miss Teen London. That is the story I was looking for.
:43:20. > :43:26.I did well considering I was one of the largest girls in there. It
:43:26. > :43:33.knocked my confidence that everyone was a size 6 or size 8. I was proud
:43:33. > :43:38.that I was Miss Teen London Galaxy. APPLAUSE
:43:38. > :43:42.You can't dismiss lads mags at all. It focuss on female images whrfplt
:43:42. > :43:51.it means she has to look a certain way it's focusing on the idea that
:43:51. > :43:58.a woman is an object to look at. So, no, lads mags, we are not objects.
:43:58. > :44:05.David Beckham has launched a pair of underwear. He is seen all over
:44:05. > :44:10.magazines. 12-year-old girls holding his crouch. I would agree
:44:10. > :44:14.with you on that. It's in every industry. It's in every sector. You
:44:14. > :44:18.can't pinpoint this on mag scene zeens that do not say anything bad
:44:18. > :44:23.about women. What it is, right, as you said, it's there. These
:44:23. > :44:29.pictures are out there. You see it in films. You see it in computer
:44:29. > :44:34.games now. It's everywhere. You can't put it down to amag. The way
:44:34. > :44:38.society is at the moment, young girls, they are bombarded by these
:44:38. > :44:44.images. The only way it will change, especially young girls, the way
:44:44. > :44:48.they see this... You will not get rid of it. There will be some
:44:48. > :44:53.company putting images out there, sex sells, people know that. You
:44:53. > :45:00.need to get girls of all shapes. The fact of it is, you talk to boys
:45:00. > :45:03.out there, they don't want to see a skinny girl, they want to see...
:45:03. > :45:08.APPLAUSE Let's find out from the girls in
:45:08. > :45:18.the audience. Which females in our audience, put your hands up, if you
:45:18. > :45:20.
:45:20. > :45:24.walk past lads mags and look the You lookout lads mags and you see
:45:24. > :45:33.girls that do not have much self- respect, in my opinion. They are
:45:33. > :45:37.showing their front of two men, and you know what men do when they look
:45:37. > :45:41.at those magazines. The pages get sticky! Why would I look at a
:45:41. > :45:46.magazine with girls on the front showing themselves off, and think
:45:46. > :45:50.that I am upset because I do not look like that? I am happy to look
:45:50. > :45:54.at the way I am because they do not want men looking at me. The same
:45:54. > :46:00.way children get annoyed if children put these pictures on the
:46:00. > :46:04.internet. It that your sister? is my identical twin. -- is that
:46:04. > :46:11.your sister? It is International Women's Day tomorrow and you say
:46:11. > :46:16.that the centralisation of men is not a problem, but women do not
:46:16. > :46:23.have the opportunities that men have. You may say that David
:46:23. > :46:28.Beckham is being set alight, but he has a multi-million-pound job. --
:46:28. > :46:32.is being made into a set object. They need the money. They do not
:46:32. > :46:38.need the money. I work with lots of girls doing career advice and there
:46:38. > :46:42.are two things that they say. When they see these idealised visions of
:46:42. > :46:49.women, it really makes them feel bad. It makes them feel pressurised
:46:49. > :46:54.into looking a certain way and they think about plastic surgery. That
:46:54. > :46:58.is one issue, how they feel and the way they are looked up. More
:46:58. > :47:03.importantly, it does have an invidious effect. If women are only
:47:03. > :47:09.looked at as something and you do not see the capabilities they have
:47:09. > :47:14.as individuals. It lowers aspirations. You say that they come
:47:14. > :47:19.out, and when girls look at role- models, they look at Jordan rather
:47:19. > :47:24.than an inventor, JK Rowling. When looking at future jobs, they look
:47:24. > :47:30.at models instead of engineers. Have any magazine you want, but
:47:31. > :47:34.let's see girls doing lots of different, powerful things. Do you
:47:34. > :47:39.think magazines like that should be on the top shelf? I don't think we
:47:39. > :47:46.need to obliterate lads mags. We need to diversified the people we
:47:46. > :47:51.see in them and make it different. It is boring. A in America they are
:47:51. > :47:56.more open to that. Beyonce, she has got curves. It is a British thing
:47:56. > :48:06.that we always pick the skills. The girls feel they have to become size
:48:06. > :48:10.zero and it is unbelievable. -- will always pick these girls.
:48:10. > :48:14.see girls doing more, doing something exciting, being
:48:14. > :48:19.adventurous, the top of multinational companies. Let's see
:48:19. > :48:26.them doing more things. They are doing that but let's celebrate it
:48:26. > :48:33.more. What are people saying at home? Give us your story. You have
:48:33. > :48:37.been on the catwalk. I used to do that. How much pressure were you
:48:37. > :48:41.under? I was under pressure but that is part of the job, to be
:48:41. > :48:46.honest. That is your job. Especially on the runway, you have
:48:46. > :48:53.to stay skinny. For you, Dominic, you are probably promoting
:48:53. > :49:00.something healthier than higher fashion does. We do. I think that
:49:00. > :49:07.girls are hard on other women than men are ever, to be honest. --
:49:07. > :49:11.harder. I can buy you don't that now! I like this comment from Peter.
:49:11. > :49:16.Why is it all about women and their body image when there is a hidden
:49:16. > :49:21.side of it? So many young and older men have eating disorders because
:49:21. > :49:26.they want the perfect bodies and that is just a secret. That is a
:49:26. > :49:36.good point. Another person here, I don't know how to say the name.
:49:36. > :49:36.
:49:36. > :49:40.They say that is not true. A MPs to hear that. Looking at the Power Bar,
:49:40. > :49:45.Esther, you are not getting the gold medal. -- I am pleased to hear
:49:45. > :49:49.that. There is one story that you heard today that we cannot ignore
:49:49. > :49:54.that six British soldiers were killed in Afghanistan. They went up
:49:54. > :50:00.there on Valentine's Day, that is heartbreaking. Less than a month
:50:00. > :50:04.ago, the biggest single loss of life in six years. Jamie? Is the
:50:04. > :50:12.outcome of Afghanistan worth the death toll? That question is
:50:12. > :50:20.inevitable after such loss of life. What does the panel thing? Esther?
:50:20. > :50:25.-- think? No life is worth it but when people have given a life, we
:50:25. > :50:29.have to make it worth it. We have to make sure that we help undo the
:50:29. > :50:34.best we can in Afghanistan and everybody that has lost their life,
:50:34. > :50:41.we need to make sure that they and everybody knows they did it for a
:50:41. > :50:47.purpose. -- make sure we help and do the best we can. You have a
:50:47. > :50:53.friend doing it for a purpose at the moment. Tell us. Yes, my friend
:50:53. > :50:58.is 26 and in Helmand Province. He is finishing his first tour. My
:50:58. > :51:03.opinion on this, when you see the news coming out, it personally
:51:03. > :51:08.resonates. I know somebody up there. Afghanistan has been part of the
:51:08. > :51:12.young person's history, especially up children in schools today. How
:51:12. > :51:22.much are they desensitised to what the six people's lives mean and
:51:22. > :51:23.
:51:23. > :51:27.what Afghanistan means to them and British society? I think, you know,
:51:27. > :51:31.a lot of young people I do think care about that subject because it
:51:31. > :51:38.has been around for the last 10 years. I have to ask myself, we
:51:38. > :51:42.cannot even sought our own country out at the moment. -- sort out our
:51:42. > :51:47.own country. What makes anyone think we can sort out the problems
:51:47. > :51:50.of another country? We cannot get it right here, do you know what I
:51:50. > :51:57.am saying? It is clear that we have no money in this country at the
:51:57. > :52:01.moment. Are we sending soldiers up with the right training? Have they
:52:01. > :52:05.got the right equipment? I am worried about this because we are
:52:05. > :52:08.sending young people up and it is scary. I was watching a BBC Three
:52:08. > :52:12.documentary that got into the lives of the soldiers and they are just
:52:12. > :52:22.like us, watching the same films, listening to the same music. Four
:52:22. > :52:31.of them died and they were there for one month. A sex! Sorry. But it
:52:31. > :52:36.is over 400 soldiers. -- 6! need to ask the people in
:52:36. > :52:41.Afghanistan what they want. A lot of people want us to get out. Maybe
:52:41. > :52:46.it is a case of having a trial period or something. I do
:52:46. > :52:51.understand your point that the Government did it. That happened.
:52:51. > :52:55.You should not just leave them. But it is a thing where, you know, we
:52:55. > :52:59.are in someone else's country, and maybe we should come out and give
:52:59. > :53:06.them a chance to sort it out. If they need help, then give them help.
:53:06. > :53:10.We are not even getting it right here. That is the problem, man.
:53:10. > :53:15.Esther talks about seeing the job through bubble we hear about in
:53:15. > :53:21.newspapers is cutting the Ministry of Defence budget constantly. --
:53:21. > :53:26.but all we hear about. We are cutting the budget constantly. If I
:53:26. > :53:29.did not give money to my business, it would get nowhere. The minister
:53:29. > :53:34.of defence budget, yes, but the war comes from the Treasury budget
:53:35. > :53:39.which has not been reduced and it has cost �4.8 billion this year and
:53:39. > :53:44.�18 billion in total. So there have not been any cuts there. You are
:53:44. > :53:49.quite right, before we ever going to any war, you have to say why?
:53:49. > :53:56.What is it about? It has to be the very last thing you do because at
:53:56. > :54:00.the end of the day it is live so that you are putting on the --
:54:00. > :54:07.lives that you are putting on the line in this country and abroad.
:54:07. > :54:17.How difficult is this for the Government? You are talking to the
:54:17. > :54:17.
:54:17. > :54:22.Taliban but things like this are happening. We came in after this
:54:23. > :54:27.had already started. How do we put the army in, sustainable Government,
:54:27. > :54:33.education? And how do we move out and still offer the port where it
:54:33. > :54:40.is needed? That is vital. -- offer support. We need some comments from
:54:40. > :54:45.people at home. I like this, it. Just get our lads out there. I
:54:45. > :54:49.think lots of people think like that. People are also saying that
:54:49. > :54:53.it is sad to see all of the people die in, however this should be a
:54:53. > :54:58.wake-up call for the Government. Does anybody think it is the right
:54:58. > :55:05.thing for our Government and our country to be doing? We are already
:55:05. > :55:10.in Afghanistan, whether it is right or wrong. That is beside the point.
:55:10. > :55:14.Strategic withdrawal is what it is about. If we just withdraw and have
:55:14. > :55:18.that trial period, then those people's lives have been lost for
:55:18. > :55:25.nothing. There are 10,000 soldiers up there for another three years.
:55:25. > :55:32.Is that right? All the statistics, everything, he does not mean
:55:32. > :55:36.anything. Why are they even there in the first place? I am sure that
:55:36. > :55:40.the whole country heard about the six personnel and I am sure the
:55:41. > :55:45.audience's thoughts go to their family, but what I want to know is
:55:45. > :55:51.why the Government is trying to police the whole world? We have
:55:51. > :55:56.been to Iran, Libya, Syria soon. Why is the Government not using
:55:56. > :56:04.those resources and the finances for young people's services and
:56:04. > :56:08.youth clubs? Sorry, there is not time. When people come to you,
:56:08. > :56:14.dying on the street and asking for help you do not turn the other
:56:14. > :56:18.cheek. I think that debate is the right place to leave it. Sorry that
:56:18. > :56:23.we could not finish things off but time is against us. You can join us
:56:23. > :56:27.online. You will find all the details about our social media