:00:10. > :00:20.This is Free Speech, your chance to have your say about what matters to
:00:20. > :00:47.
:00:47. > :00:53.Good evening and welcome to Free Speech, the only show that lets you
:00:53. > :01:00.tell the panel your views on what's going on. I'm Rick Edwards, tonight
:01:00. > :01:06.we are at Hope University in Liverpool.
:01:06. > :01:11.Personally, I'm just pleased to be here. Tina Daheley almost missed
:01:11. > :01:15.her last train because of Justin Bieber's tardiness. Good evening,
:01:15. > :01:19.I'm here to let you have your say. Please get your laptops, tablets
:01:19. > :01:24.and phones ready for me and get on and phones ready for me and get on
:01:24. > :01:27.line with the BBC, Facebook or Twitter. Here are the addresses you
:01:27. > :01:31.need. Tell me your opinions. You need to activate the Power Bar
:01:31. > :01:41.which you can see behind me and respond in real time to watch you
:01:41. > :01:43.think of the panel's opinions via think of the panel's opinions via
:01:43. > :01:48.Twitter, so use # Yes or #at No. She has come a long way from
:01:48. > :01:56.working in Nando's and Harrow. She won Best solo female artist at the
:01:56. > :02:04.Brits in 2008. She has a new album out. She is Kate Nash.
:02:04. > :02:11.His Conservative MP at last week he called on the BBC to open up its
:02:11. > :02:16.spending for scrutiny. It is Alun Cairns.
:02:16. > :02:19.Shias Liverpool Council's spokesperson for young people, she
:02:19. > :02:24.was born and raised in Croxteth, where she was a councillor. She
:02:24. > :02:31.says, the only time -- the first time she ever voted was for herself.
:02:31. > :02:35.Why not? She is Steph Till. Officially he is research director
:02:35. > :02:42.at the think tank the Adam Smith Institute, and officially, it means
:02:42. > :02:45.he is responsible for blue-sky thinking. He is Sam Bowman.
:02:45. > :02:49.Let's get started. A report published this week shows the
:02:49. > :02:56.numbers of young people owning their own homes has plummeted
:02:56. > :03:03.dramatically in the last 20 years. Who here owns their own home? Two!
:03:03. > :03:07.Out of this number. That is not a surprise. The number of 16 to 24
:03:07. > :03:11.year-old owning a home has dropped by more than half, and in the 25 to
:03:11. > :03:16.34 age group it has dropped by a third. But in Liverpool the council
:03:16. > :03:20.has very cheap houses for sale. How much do you think these are going
:03:20. > :03:25.for? It has been in the press, they are going for �1. You would have
:03:25. > :03:32.had to register interest by 5pm today, but which you want to buy a
:03:32. > :03:37.house like that? Generally no. Where is will be live? You have a
:03:37. > :03:44.question about housing. Should the Government subsidise housing
:03:44. > :03:48.payments for first-time buyers? Kate? Our subsidies the answer?
:03:48. > :03:56.Firstly, I have, like, a lot of friends in their 20s coming into
:03:56. > :04:00.their 30s that just are so far away from being able to buy a house. It
:04:00. > :04:06.seems sort of like a dream. Definitely not a reality for a lot
:04:06. > :04:11.of people around my age. The reason I was able to buy a house is
:04:11. > :04:16.because I had a hit record. I was only 19. That is not the case for
:04:16. > :04:20.everybody, obviously. And I think that... I have friends even in
:04:20. > :04:24.their 30s that have had solid careers for a we be long time but
:04:24. > :04:30.are still nowhere near being able to buy a house because it is just
:04:30. > :04:34.so expensive. I think one thing that really comes to mind is, like,
:04:34. > :04:37.rent is extremely expensive, so a lot of people I know have no
:04:37. > :04:41.ability to even saved because, you know, they are doing what we are
:04:41. > :04:45.talking about earlier, working for free, trying to do everything to
:04:45. > :04:50.get the careers they really want and the future they want, then
:04:50. > :04:57.spending all their money on living in London. Rent is extremely
:04:57. > :05:04.expensive in London. There is just no... They can barely meet -- make
:05:04. > :05:07.their rent each month so there is no... There is no room for it.
:05:07. > :05:13.They're definitely needs to be something done to, like, help
:05:13. > :05:17.people. Because, I don't know, it is just so different to, like, my
:05:17. > :05:22.parents' generation. There are hundreds of reasons why it is
:05:22. > :05:26.different but we can't ignore the problem, and people need help. I'd
:05:26. > :05:31.just read about there is a council tax being introduced on April 1st,
:05:31. > :05:36.like, for people having to pay arm, like, secondary and third
:05:36. > :05:40.properties that they own. What are the council going to do with that
:05:40. > :05:45.money? Well it's going to building affordable homes for the community?
:05:45. > :05:49.It sounds like a really great scheme, selling a house for �1, but
:05:49. > :05:53.nobody here probably has the money to build up a home from the
:05:53. > :05:58.condition it is in, so it would be like going into living in a squat,
:05:58. > :06:01.I guess. So, yeah, something needs to be done to help people. People
:06:02. > :06:06.do need help, what can the Government do to give that help,
:06:06. > :06:11.Alun? In the first instance, housing, and renting or buying a
:06:11. > :06:15.house, is the biggest problem facing so many people - be it young
:06:15. > :06:19.people, young families or even older people. Buying a home, so
:06:19. > :06:23.long as somebody can get a mortgage, is cheaper than renting. The rate
:06:23. > :06:28.at which rent has increased over the last five years or more has
:06:28. > :06:32.been astronomical. It is really a difficult issue. There are lots of
:06:32. > :06:36.related issues, one is that the banks need to lend money, it is the
:06:36. > :06:40.rate at which they lend, the availability of money, because the
:06:40. > :06:45.criteria is set so high. They are refusing to lend money. Secondly,
:06:45. > :06:49.it is about the planning system which needs to be freed up in many
:06:49. > :06:51.areas. Builders need clarity so they know if they put an
:06:51. > :06:55.application in one area they are likely to succeed in their
:06:55. > :06:58.application, and if they will put an application in another area they
:06:58. > :07:03.know they won't get planning permission, so there needs to be
:07:03. > :07:07.greater clarity. And the economy needs to be moving. Building and
:07:07. > :07:10.construction is really important in that. Gordon Brown said just before
:07:10. > :07:14.the last general election that he thought that housing was a private
:07:14. > :07:18.sector a shoe. The private sector would provide and people would rent
:07:18. > :07:23.or buy out to bat. Although I am on the centre-right of politics, even
:07:23. > :07:27.I thought that was harsh. It is an idea of something to get to, but
:07:27. > :07:30.the Government needs to step in the. There are lots of things going on,
:07:30. > :07:35.supporting builders, offering them guarantees, social housing,
:07:35. > :07:38.building more social housing. It somebody exercises the right to buy
:07:38. > :07:42.underrate discounted scheme there is a guarantee that another social
:07:42. > :07:48.house will be built. Then there is the issue of under occupancy and
:07:48. > :07:51.overcrowded housing. That is a separate debate fundamental to the
:07:51. > :07:58.whole problem. Who should be helping young people get on the
:07:58. > :08:02.property ladder, then? I think when you sell off a public sector house,
:08:02. > :08:06.I think you should build another public sector house. That guarantee
:08:06. > :08:14.has been made. Any new social housing being sold now, a new one
:08:14. > :08:17.will be built. You, sir? What about replacing all the stop we lost when
:08:17. > :08:22.right-to-buy came in the first time? We lost a huge amount. It
:08:22. > :08:26.needs to be replaced, we don't have enough housing for people. That is
:08:26. > :08:31.a fair point, but the position got worse over the last decade or more.
:08:31. > :08:34.Social housing was not built. Gordon Brown thought it was just a
:08:34. > :08:37.private sector issue one transaction. That is not good
:08:37. > :08:42.enough and the Government has its significance part to play. It is
:08:42. > :08:46.about supporting communities in terms of allowing properties to be
:08:46. > :08:49.built, supporting builders in terms of making his house is available,
:08:49. > :08:52.having a much more flexible approach to development so that we
:08:52. > :08:59.can have a relatively high prospects of social accommodation
:08:59. > :09:04.within any new developments being made. Steph, is it a private sector
:09:04. > :09:08.issue? I don't think so. Something that we are dealing in Liverpool at
:09:08. > :09:13.the moment which is really innovative is that we've got the �1
:09:13. > :09:18.housing, which is, I think, so many people went, oh, no, I'd never move
:09:18. > :09:23.into one, but it is a fantastic opportunity to get onto the
:09:23. > :09:27.property ladder for �1, renovate. It is not creating houses, it is
:09:27. > :09:31.creating homes. We want you to stay in them for the next five years, we
:09:31. > :09:35.will be checking to make sure this is not taken advantage of by rogue
:09:35. > :09:42.landlords. But as a local authority we will be offering an indemnity, a
:09:42. > :09:45.guarantee, to homebuyers where we as a council... Normally, if you
:09:45. > :09:50.move into a property, to save a deposit, we are paying massive
:09:50. > :09:54.rents and in jobs not paying enough, so to get a deposit together is
:09:54. > :10:00.nigh on impossible. So where people struggled in the past when mortgage
:10:00. > :10:02.lenders are not lending and now they say you need a 25% deposit, we
:10:02. > :10:05.as a local-authority a saying that we will back you up in conjunction
:10:05. > :10:12.with our partners in the banking industry that we have got and we
:10:12. > :10:14.will back your loan up and guarantee it, essentially. We will
:10:14. > :10:18.hold money in reserves and guarantee you so you can get your
:10:19. > :10:22.foot on the property ladder. As a local authorities that is
:10:22. > :10:26.innovative. Other local authorities, as far as I'm concerned, need to
:10:26. > :10:31.see what we are doing and take that forward. What are people saying
:10:31. > :10:35.online, Tina? There has been a huge response all week, ranging from
:10:35. > :10:40.people blaming the banks, agreeing with Alun, saying that banks need
:10:40. > :10:50.to start lending. Another group of people are saying that 16 to 24
:10:50. > :10:51.
:10:51. > :10:57.year-olds don't aspire to having This USA's it depends on money
:10:57. > :11:03.management, how committed you are. -- this viewer says. Sam, does it
:11:03. > :11:07.depend on commitment? No, we have a crisis in housing. Worst of all for
:11:07. > :11:11.young people, we have a rental crisis, rents are increasing every
:11:11. > :11:14.year. The problem is a lack of supply. The planning system
:11:14. > :11:18.strangles the construction of new homes, particularly affordable
:11:18. > :11:22.homes, because the electoral calculus is there for politicians
:11:22. > :11:26.to block every new development will stop if you own your home, new
:11:26. > :11:29.houses being built in your area decrease the value of your home, so
:11:30. > :11:34.voters in every area have the interest to vote for councillors
:11:34. > :11:39.who will block developments, so homeowners are strangling the
:11:39. > :11:41.property market. What we should do is move to a system where
:11:41. > :11:46.development rights are auctioned off so that you have various
:11:46. > :11:49.different bits for this, and the money does not to the council but
:11:49. > :11:53.to local residents, so they have a reason to want a new houses built
:11:53. > :11:57.in their area. Fundamentally, housing should not be especially
:11:57. > :12:02.expensive, it should not increase in prize every year. It should
:12:02. > :12:07.decrease as things get cheaper. There is a very, very fixed supply
:12:07. > :12:10.of housing, increasing demand, and the Housing Benefit that the
:12:10. > :12:16.Government gives is basically a subsidy to private landlords, it in
:12:16. > :12:19.no way helps people who are renting, it just drives up prices. Get rid
:12:19. > :12:23.of green-belt protection so that we can build outside our cities so
:12:23. > :12:26.that places like London can increase in size and people come by
:12:26. > :12:32.affordable homes at low density areas, because those are the houses
:12:32. > :12:35.people want. -- people come buy affordable homes in low density
:12:35. > :12:43.areas. Allows supply to reach demand and you won't have a housing
:12:43. > :12:45.crisis. APPLAUSE some big ideas from that panel is.
:12:45. > :12:48.from that panel is. I have seen you hovering over the
:12:48. > :12:58.Power Bar. Time to find out what people at home think of what you
:12:58. > :13:00.have said so far. Let's fire up the Power Bar. It is between Kate and
:13:00. > :13:05.Sam at the moment, neck-and-neck. Sam at the moment, neck-and-neck.
:13:05. > :13:09.That could all change. Let's talk to Aaron. What do you
:13:09. > :13:13.think the fundamental problem is with the housing? I think the
:13:13. > :13:18.problem is that not everybody can rely on the Bank of mum and dad. So
:13:18. > :13:24.by banks not lending money to first-time buyers, deposits is
:13:24. > :13:28.therefore a massive problem. The second thing is, going back to
:13:28. > :13:34.whether the state should help those get on the property ladder, I find
:13:34. > :13:38.it a moral issue where by the coalition governments is reducing
:13:38. > :13:42.housing welfare for the most deprived, socially deprived within
:13:43. > :13:52.society, so therefore for them to turn around and help those in the
:13:53. > :13:56.
:13:56. > :13:59.private sector, I've got a moral In an ideal world, yes, the state
:14:00. > :14:03.could intervene. But I've been given the economic crisis we are in,
:14:03. > :14:07.I don't think there's any position for the state. So the
:14:07. > :14:11.responsibility lies with the banks? What about you, sir?
:14:11. > :14:15.I did not expect to agree with Alun, but I agreed strongly with one
:14:15. > :14:22.point, the Government need to do more. Especially in terms of these
:14:22. > :14:26.schemes that they have rolled out such as First By a, they have been
:14:26. > :14:31.really insignificant. I remember reading an article saying if we
:14:31. > :14:36.wanted enough affordable new builds for people to live in we'd have to
:14:36. > :14:40.build 300,000 houses per year. Since September we have only built
:14:40. > :14:44.90,000. Your government has only built 90,000. I have so many
:14:44. > :14:47.friends who have come out of university with a degree and around
:14:47. > :14:52.the first steps of their career and they are still living with mum and
:14:52. > :14:55.dad. It is so hard to get onto the property ladder and the Government
:14:55. > :14:59.is not doing enough. One final point, I read another article which
:14:59. > :15:05.says that in terms of the amount of new bills that this Government is
:15:05. > :15:15.building, it is the same level as it was in the 1920s. The 1920s, the
:15:15. > :15:25.
:15:25. > :15:35.I don't believe that is a help to people. These houses were
:15:35. > :15:41.compulsorily purchased. It is about breaking up the community. This as
:15:41. > :15:44.being an agenda. The bedroom tax is the same thing. Basically, it is
:15:44. > :15:49.about stopping the working-class people from living in the community
:15:49. > :15:54.where they grew up. According to the echo and the Guardian, they are
:15:54. > :16:00.also going to be allowing private landlords to purchase these houses.
:16:00. > :16:10.How is that helping young people on to the property ladder?
:16:10. > :16:14.
:16:14. > :16:20.A point From Tom contradicts what Does that chime with anyone?
:16:20. > :16:24.I recently had my 18th birthday. I opened a separate account where I'm
:16:24. > :16:28.putting a lot of savings, so, all the money I'm getting for jobs, I
:16:28. > :16:32.am going to put into that account. Hopefully, when I graduate when
:16:32. > :16:36.that will help me a lot with getting on the property ladder.
:16:36. > :16:44.It is never going to be enough. What you are earning will never be
:16:44. > :16:48.enough. If the banks were to be more lenient with their lending or
:16:48. > :16:53.borrowing, it is going to be much easier. You have to prove, if you
:16:53. > :16:57.want to buy the houses for �1, that you can do them up. If the banks
:16:57. > :17:04.are not lending, how can you get a loan to prove that you are able to
:17:04. > :17:07.do it up? The same with the bedroom tax. I work in housing. I know some
:17:07. > :17:11.associations that, if their occupants don't pay their rent for
:17:11. > :17:15.six weeks, they are going to go under because of the lack of cash
:17:15. > :17:20.flow coming into the business. They can't borrow the cash flow because
:17:20. > :17:25.the banks aren't lending even to businesses. It is going to be an
:17:25. > :17:35.onslaught. Tina, what is happening online? Amelia would agree with
:17:35. > :17:51.
:17:51. > :17:58.Stephen Wood agreed with the And aid in says: -- Adrian.
:17:58. > :18:08.Remember, if you want your point of you made, you have to make it first.
:18:08. > :18:12.
:18:12. > :18:17.Let's move on to our next topic. Britain is the fact his country in
:18:17. > :18:21.Europe. Almost two-thirds of adults are overweight or obese. A report
:18:21. > :18:25.yesterday shows we can expect a shorter healthy life expectancy
:18:25. > :18:31.than many other countries. Both the NHS and our lifestyles get the
:18:31. > :18:35.blame. The country's most eminent doctors are saying that junk food
:18:35. > :18:41.ads should be banned until 9pm. The only sensible response to this was
:18:41. > :18:46.to head down the chippy. I work, I earn my money, I should
:18:46. > :18:50.spend it on what I want. People find it easier to eat junk food
:18:50. > :18:59.because it is cheaper. government should encourage people
:18:59. > :19:04.to eat healthily from a younger age. Obesity is a big problem in the UK.
:19:04. > :19:11.Therefore, I think the governor should take more action on it.
:19:11. > :19:17.the government puts prices up, it would suck. It is going to make
:19:17. > :19:21.people poorer. Wouldn't stop me from buying chips. If they were
:19:21. > :19:25.more expensive, I was told by chips because I don't think the tax is
:19:25. > :19:32.going to be high enough to put me off. Are we still eat chips. But I
:19:32. > :19:39.would not be happy about it. think the government should leave
:19:39. > :19:42.chips alone. We have got a question from Jade. Do you think it would be
:19:42. > :19:52.more beneficial to lower the price of healthy food rather than
:19:52. > :19:55.
:19:55. > :20:00.Not often you get a round of applause for a question. No, I
:20:00. > :20:05.don't. It is cheap to eat healthily. If you live on McDonald's all week,
:20:05. > :20:11.you would be broke. People eat fatty foods because it tastes nice.
:20:11. > :20:15.Countries have tried fat taxes before. Denmark tried it. It
:20:15. > :20:19.abandoned its last year after only one year because it was so
:20:19. > :20:29.unpopular. Fat taxes hit the poorest hardest. It would take
:20:29. > :20:33.seven times of a poor person's income than a big person's. The
:20:33. > :20:40.people who pay and fill a chunk of their income going on those who on
:20:40. > :20:44.low incomes. It comes down to a moral issue. Should people have the
:20:44. > :20:50.freedom to be fat? I am not happy about being fat, I would not want
:20:50. > :20:54.to be fat, but I enjoy eating fatty foods. Only an individual can make
:20:54. > :21:00.the decision for themselves, whether it is worth drinking a can
:21:00. > :21:05.of Coke or going to the chippy and putting on a few pounds. All of
:21:05. > :21:10.these are individual decisions. The statistics about obesity growth, by
:21:10. > :21:19.we, are bogus. Doctors pretend they know how fat bidder are going to be
:21:19. > :21:28.in 30 years. They tied -- tried to project it in the mid- point of the
:21:28. > :21:33.last decade. They could not predict it over four years. You were
:21:33. > :21:38.shaking your head a bit, Jade. I agree with some of the points,
:21:38. > :21:42.but I think the first is ridiculous. It is a lot more is pensive to buy
:21:42. > :21:52.healthy food. As a student, a lot of my friends tried to eat
:21:52. > :21:53.
:21:53. > :21:57.healthily. But you can make your own lasagne. I can make most things.
:21:57. > :22:07.I am a good cook. But vegetables are a lot more expensive than
:22:07. > :22:09.
:22:09. > :22:17.Swedes. It is just how it is. I go, carrots are 10p for a
:22:17. > :22:23.kilogram. It is more expensive to eat healthily, it just is. Steph, I
:22:23. > :22:28.think you agree with Jade. I represent a ward with high levels
:22:28. > :22:32.of deprivation. It is not cheaper to eat healthily. How much does
:22:32. > :22:36.meet costs? I would encourage anybody to go out and support local
:22:36. > :22:42.business. It would be fantastic if we could support greengrocer's in
:22:42. > :22:50.our community, etc. However, if it cost you �4 to buy the mince or a
:22:50. > :22:55.lasagne, or you can buy one for �1, you will buy it there. It is
:22:55. > :22:59.cheaper. Meat is more expensive. You go to a supermarket and what is
:22:59. > :23:07.on offer is always the fizzy things. I have done them all, all the diets
:23:07. > :23:12.going, and I know how expensive these things are. Water is free.
:23:12. > :23:19.are not talking about fizzy drinks. We are. I'm talking about catering
:23:19. > :23:24.for a family. It is a lot more expensive. Fruit and apples and
:23:24. > :23:30.things are �2 for a bag. You get five apples in them. If you have
:23:30. > :23:34.got two kids, that will do you half a day perhaps. It is expensive to
:23:34. > :23:39.feed your family healthily. I'm a mother of two and I know it is
:23:39. > :23:44.expensive to feed kids. I totally agree. I think what you are saying
:23:44. > :23:48.is dead right. It is about not increasing the price off unhealthy
:23:48. > :23:52.foods, because all that will do is make the fat people poorer. We are
:23:52. > :23:59.already poor in the first place, probably. What we need to do is
:23:59. > :24:04.look at the reduction of healthy food, I think.
:24:04. > :24:14.What do the online community say, Tina? Listeners have been talking
:24:14. > :24:34.
:24:34. > :24:38.online. Adam would agree with you, Ali, it is it the government's
:24:38. > :24:42.responsibility to tackle obesity? - - Alun. The government has a
:24:42. > :24:46.responsibility to educate, to make the information available. It must
:24:46. > :24:50.make sure that schools teach young people how to put the basic
:24:50. > :25:00.ingredients together so they can cater and care for themselves
:25:00. > :25:07.
:25:07. > :25:13.instead of buying the ready-made We teach kids how to cook food they
:25:13. > :25:17.can't afford. I believe the basic foodstuffs are cheaper than the
:25:17. > :25:21.ready-made food, whether they are frozen or chilled. Coming back to
:25:21. > :25:26.your question, the demand has a responsibility to make sure that
:25:26. > :25:31.people are educated and that the information is available. -- the
:25:31. > :25:35.Government. I opposed a fizzy drinks tax on that basis. A sugary
:25:35. > :25:40.drink might be healthy for one person but it might not be healthy
:25:40. > :25:45.for another person. When we are talking about having cheaper,
:25:45. > :25:48.healthier foods, well, something that is healthy for one person is
:25:48. > :25:52.not necessarily for another person. We have got to be realistic about
:25:52. > :25:56.this and people have to accept responsibility themselves. If they
:25:56. > :26:00.eat the wrong things, they get fat. They need to have the information
:26:00. > :26:07.to make that judgment for themselves so they can eat the
:26:07. > :26:13.things that best suit their metabolism and lifestyles. Would
:26:13. > :26:18.you support a tax on fizzy drinks, Kate? I agree that there are ways
:26:19. > :26:24.of cooking healthily for a little money. The problem is, I don't
:26:24. > :26:32.agree it is a moral issue. I don't think people think, oh, I want to
:26:32. > :26:35.be fat. But I think what we just talked about is the fact that
:26:35. > :26:39.people, their rent is very expensive, they have not got a
:26:39. > :26:45.future of buying a home, they are slogging away, working for free, to
:26:45. > :26:50.get a career. We live like faster than ever. Everything is instant.
:26:50. > :26:54.People can contact us at all hours. I know that if I'm tired and busy,
:26:54. > :26:59.I get home late and I think, I can't be bothered to cook. I have
:26:59. > :27:04.the ability. I grew up cooking with my mum. But it is washing up I have
:27:04. > :27:10.to do. It is an hour making a meal, it will be midnight by the time I
:27:10. > :27:15.eat. I think it will be quicker to get a takeaway. It is not like a
:27:15. > :27:24.choice. People have responsibility to decide to be a healthy person.
:27:24. > :27:31.We all go through phases of being unhealthy. But marketing and
:27:31. > :27:37.advertising works. I watched an advert for, like, KFC, and a credit
:27:37. > :27:47.- and I am vegetarian! If we are talking about making fizzy drinks
:27:47. > :27:54.more expensive, that seems really like a silly idea. It does not seem
:27:54. > :27:58.like it is going to solve obesity. Healthy food stores are seen as
:27:58. > :28:03.more expensive and they are marketed in a way where it is to
:28:03. > :28:08.the middle classes. We need advertising on other options. If we
:28:08. > :28:14.are going to make unhealthy options more expensive, I want to see
:28:14. > :28:19.healthy advance being marketed to deem -- the working classes. Up a
:28:19. > :28:23.whole is taxed heavily for many reasons, and yet people still drink
:28:23. > :28:30.heavily. -- alcohol. It is down to everybody accept responsibility
:28:30. > :28:34.themselves. There's a food crisis in this country. It is because food
:28:34. > :28:44.banks exist. The government should focus on the fact that people can't
:28:44. > :28:51.
:28:51. > :28:56.Does anybody here support the idea of attacks on fizzy drinks or fatty
:28:57. > :29:01.foods? Yes. But the foods it should be levied on should not be based on
:29:01. > :29:05.calorific content but based on saturated fat, additives and the
:29:05. > :29:10.sodium content. Sir Jim has been connected with heart disease, which
:29:10. > :29:17.is a huge burden on the NHS -- na has been connected with heart
:29:17. > :29:22.disease. Does that resonate with anyone? I'm saying that this
:29:22. > :29:25.country is far too will be taxed in the first place, it doesn't need
:29:25. > :29:30.another tax. People are struggling, as the lady from Liverpool rightly
:29:30. > :29:40.said, to feed the families. Let's make food cost even more(!) It is
:29:40. > :29:41.
:29:41. > :29:44.stupid, we don't need more tax, we need last tasks. -- less tax.
:29:44. > :29:50.a project in the north-east and we have to go about the daily to
:29:50. > :29:54.people who can't afford to buy it, we started a project because we had
:29:54. > :29:57.girls coming and had been 10 packets of 10p crisps for their
:29:58. > :30:03.dinner. That is happening in this country. We started giving out free
:30:03. > :30:08.to, they came and they liked it and they went home and asked for it. --
:30:08. > :30:13.we started giving out fruit. I totally agree that there is a food
:30:13. > :30:17.crisis in this country. My mum works in a school with quite
:30:17. > :30:22.young children and came home one day and told me, oh, my God, the
:30:22. > :30:28.kids didn't know that Bacon came from pigs or that pigs lived on a
:30:28. > :30:33.far more what's a farm was, or that you can grow food. I think there is
:30:33. > :30:36.a massive missing link in education. I know that plants gold -- grow in
:30:36. > :30:40.the grounds and you can pull carrots out, but there might be a
:30:40. > :30:43.large group of children growing up in the country who have had no
:30:43. > :30:52.experience of that. There are fields in schools, surely we can
:30:52. > :30:55.grow vegetables? So it is an issue of education? Tina Daheley? Craig
:30:55. > :31:00.and Aaron both agree with each other and say taxing fast food will
:31:00. > :31:05.just a poor people poorer. Craig says taxing fast food and fizzy
:31:05. > :31:09.drinks is like taxing alcohol. Punishing the poor, the rich won't
:31:09. > :31:12.notice. Maggie says, the Government never
:31:12. > :31:18.encourage young kids to eat more healthily, it is the job of the
:31:18. > :31:20.parents. Rebecca, a whole pizza for parents. Rebecca, a whole pizza for
:31:20. > :31:25.�1 or one red pepper for 80p. Cheap junk is the reason for obesity.
:31:25. > :31:35.Probably a good time to look at the Power Bar again. Steph, you have
:31:35. > :31:56.
:31:56. > :31:59.Get on Twitter, tell our panellists Make your voice heard on Free
:31:59. > :32:04.Speech, tweet the Power Bar. Jake Bugg, Jessie J, Jimmy Carr,
:32:04. > :32:08.Eddie Izzard, stay tuned to BBC Three and you will see them all and
:32:08. > :32:13.many more big names. At 10pm, Russell Brand is hosting depict up
:32:13. > :32:18.for Comic Relief, and here is the man himself. -- Give it Up for
:32:18. > :32:21.Comic Relief. There are loads of really good artists, such as Noel
:32:21. > :32:26.Gallagher. Paloma faith, she is all right. There will be loads of good
:32:26. > :32:32.comedians, I will be hosting. It will be a brilliant night at
:32:32. > :32:35.Wembley Arena. All of the money goes towards buying drugs... No!
:32:35. > :32:39.Helping people with drug and alcohol addiction.
:32:39. > :32:43.I a funny man and a lovely man. Liverpool has always been at the
:32:43. > :32:47.forefront of the fightback against addiction and has been hailed as
:32:47. > :32:53.the recovery capital of Britain. Becky and Ben have fought their own
:32:53. > :32:57.battles against drugs. Once I tried the first drug, I lost the fear of
:32:57. > :33:04.drugs because I thought, well, this one did not kill me, I will try the
:33:04. > :33:10.next one, maybe that one won't. We are a group of addicts in
:33:10. > :33:17.recovery. We support and help each other. I started smoking cannabis.
:33:17. > :33:23.I tried when I was 10. I went on to LSD. Cannabis at 12. Speed, cocaine
:33:23. > :33:27.and ecstasy. At 19, I was using heroin and then smoking crack.
:33:27. > :33:33.moved on to heroin. I went to prison because I used to thieved to
:33:33. > :33:36.fund my habit. Going to jail did not stop me taking drugs. It was
:33:37. > :33:41.obviously meant as a deterrent but my behaviours were never looked up.
:33:41. > :33:46.My mum crying constantly didn't stop me taking drugs. The only
:33:46. > :33:52.thing that worked was a 12 Step programme, for me. 30 days cleans a
:33:52. > :33:56.day. Well done. A divorce complete abstinence from all drugs. I think
:33:56. > :34:01.a lot of society perceives addicts as bad people. I don't think they
:34:01. > :34:05.realise it is an illness that needs treating and these people need
:34:05. > :34:11.counselling. I have been clean for 20 months. I think it is imperative
:34:11. > :34:16.to get rehab and emotional support. I would not say getting clean it is
:34:16. > :34:20.easy, but it is a life beyond my wildest dreams. If I hadn't gone
:34:20. > :34:25.through the 12 Steps process, I would be dead. My life today is
:34:25. > :34:29.quite amazing. Inspirational stories from Becky
:34:29. > :34:34.and Ben. We asked our Facebook and Twitter crowd which question they
:34:34. > :34:41.wanted answered on addiction. What did they go for? His drug addiction
:34:41. > :34:45.a medical or criminal issue? I will start with you, Jessie, you run an
:34:45. > :34:51.addiction charity funded by Comic Relief. What is your approach?
:34:51. > :34:56.we think it is medical. I started the project 10 years ago when I
:34:56. > :34:58.found a 13 year-old addicted to heroin and a 15 year-old on the
:34:58. > :35:01.streets because of her problem. There was a quote from one of our
:35:02. > :35:06.clients when I was trying to get to the bottom of what she was going on
:35:06. > :35:11.and why she was on the streets, she said, we were just messed-up kids
:35:11. > :35:16.looking for a buzz, and I never knew it would turn out like this. I
:35:16. > :35:21.feel like I am being abused every time I go out there, and I wanted
:35:21. > :35:25.to stop. I take that on board. How can we say that is a criminal
:35:25. > :35:29.behaviour? That is someone who needs help. We have to answer the
:35:29. > :35:33.question about we were messed-up kids looking for a bus, we have to
:35:33. > :35:40.deal with the root causes of why the kids are saying they are messed
:35:40. > :35:44.up in the first place. APPLAUSE Jesse very clearly saying it is not
:35:44. > :35:51.a criminal issue. Would you agree, Sam? Absolutely.
:35:51. > :35:55.Drug addiction is a totally personal issue. And now the state
:35:55. > :35:58.tries to put those people into prison. Those people often get
:35:58. > :36:01.sucked into crime and criminal gangs that they would not been
:36:01. > :36:06.bought with otherwise. Looking around the world, Portugal has
:36:06. > :36:10.decriminalise drugs, even higher when and crack cocaine. They
:36:10. > :36:14.provide very good treatment centres and treatment resources for people
:36:14. > :36:19.who need it. Since they have done that in the last 10 years, they
:36:19. > :36:29.have seen declines in crime, HIV related to drug use, declines in
:36:29. > :36:31.
:36:31. > :36:35.drug addiction. The cycle of drug addiction is not there any more.
:36:35. > :36:45.When yourself harm your breaking the law. We should be trying to
:36:45. > :36:48.
:36:48. > :36:55.bring it into the open. Should we legalise all drugs? We should
:36:55. > :37:02.legalise all drugs. In 50 years we will look back at this period as
:37:02. > :37:06.the way we did on prohibition America. Criminal gangs profit from
:37:07. > :37:12.the sales of drugs. When we legalise, it allows us to have much
:37:12. > :37:15.clearer oversight over what goes into the drugs. The Government is
:37:15. > :37:20.also tricking people into doing these things. Almost everybody
:37:20. > :37:28.knows somebody who has been to prison for taking drugs. Almost
:37:28. > :37:36.everybody knows somebody who has taken drugs. They probably don't
:37:36. > :37:40.think they deserve to go to prison. Steph looks furious. This is my
:37:40. > :37:45.natural furious face. I completely disagree, I don't think drug should
:37:45. > :37:51.be decriminalised. In all honesty, I don't think it matters. I think
:37:51. > :38:00.drugs will exist whether they are decriminalised or not to. I don't
:38:00. > :38:04.think it is on their radar, to be perfectly honest. There is a
:38:04. > :38:09.difference between drugs, I think, as a criminal issue, and addiction
:38:09. > :38:12.is a health issue, that is the difference. I think we need to
:38:12. > :38:17.target drug dealers and drug importers, but then we need to look
:38:17. > :38:22.at these young people, all older people, who are addicted. I
:38:22. > :38:27.represent an area which was ravaged by smack, by heroin, in the 80s and
:38:27. > :38:32.90s. We feel the repercussions of that now. 20 years down the line we
:38:32. > :38:36.are still feeling that. Legalising, as far as I am concerned, the
:38:36. > :38:39.dealers will need to find a way of competing with the open market.
:38:39. > :38:44.They will need to make their product in feria, they will start
:38:44. > :38:48.mixing things with them, it will still exist. It won't go away just
:38:49. > :38:53.because the law says you're all right to be here now, they will not
:38:53. > :38:57.all start registering for bat and becoming legitimate businesses.
:38:57. > :39:06.They will still exist in the same way and they will still exploit
:39:06. > :39:11.adults -- addicts, that is what Many people online are shifting the
:39:11. > :39:14.focus from drug users to taxpayers. Whalley says it is medical but if
:39:14. > :39:19.you are stupid enough to do it in the first place, why should the
:39:19. > :39:26.taxpayer pay? Catherine agrees, alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, food
:39:26. > :39:32.etc, all addictions are a burden on the NHS.
:39:32. > :39:37.Let's talk to you quickly, Greg. You are, I'm assuming, pro the
:39:37. > :39:40.legalisation of drugs? I think it is ridiculous that we have failed
:39:40. > :39:45.to regulate any so-called illegal drugs. We regulate pharmaceutical
:39:45. > :39:51.drugs, we don't criminalise people prescribed those who become addicts.
:39:51. > :39:55.You can be prescribed opiates, I was, I have Crohn's disease. I used
:39:55. > :40:00.cannabis to treat it now because it is safer than using the opiates. I
:40:00. > :40:04.don't have a regulated markets for my access to cannabis but I have
:40:04. > :40:08.access to criminals who will take money off a 12 year-old because it
:40:08. > :40:14.has a picture of the Queen's face on it. If you regulate cannabis or
:40:14. > :40:17.other drugs which are harmful or dangerous to a vulnerable age group,
:40:17. > :40:20.you will not have to us on the streets, because no idiot in a
:40:20. > :40:24.right mind would buy from them if they can buy from somebody where
:40:24. > :40:28.they know what they are getting. Dealers will not be cutting it with
:40:28. > :40:32.talcum powder and all this other stuff if they regulate these things,
:40:32. > :40:38.it will not be the case, there will be a lot less dealers on the street.
:40:38. > :40:40.We don't criminalise people addicted to tobacco or alcohol, we
:40:40. > :40:45.criminalise people in their addiction which creates bad
:40:45. > :40:51.behaviours like stealing and abusiveness. Steph, you're making
:40:51. > :40:56.the space again. I can't help it, I totally disagree. -- Steph, you're
:40:56. > :41:00.making that face again. I think dealers will still exist, they will
:41:00. > :41:06.need to find other ways to exist. Drugs will change, develop and
:41:06. > :41:09.become more dangerous. I didn't think that I would agree with Steph
:41:09. > :41:13.on hardly anything, but I passionately agree with what she
:41:13. > :41:17.has said on this issue. I think the law is pretty clear and we have
:41:17. > :41:21.just seen a video of two people talking about starting on cannabis
:41:21. > :41:25.and moving on to harder drugs, it is a slippery slope that we are
:41:25. > :41:29.facing. When it comes down to whether it is medical or criminal,
:41:29. > :41:34.I think that someone is arrested or seeks support it needs to be
:41:34. > :41:38.treated in the first instance as a medical condition. Every form of
:41:38. > :41:42.support and resource should be given in order to try to bring them
:41:42. > :41:47.off the habit. If that is rejected and the abuse persists without good
:41:47. > :41:52.reason then it needs to be dealt with as a criminal offence in the
:41:53. > :41:57.same way. It can take an addict several times... The idea that
:41:57. > :42:02.criminal gangs will still flourish when something is illegal is
:42:02. > :42:05.completely ignorant of history. After prohibition ended in America,
:42:05. > :42:12.those criminal groups lost their business, why would you buy alcohol
:42:12. > :42:16.from a criminal when you can buy it on the High Street? APPLAUSE I can
:42:16. > :42:20.easily say I have never done cannabis, but the reports are that
:42:20. > :42:25.cannabis 20 years ago is very different to cannabis now.
:42:25. > :42:30.All the more reason to bring it out into the open. Absolutely not. It
:42:30. > :42:35.is anecdotal evidence, granted, but we saw from those people that they
:42:35. > :42:41.ended up on harder things. So what you put these people into prison? -
:42:41. > :42:45.- would you put these people into prison? I've just said that the law
:42:45. > :42:51.is pretty clear, if someone is addicted and is seeking help does
:42:51. > :42:55.matter is seeking help or was arrested because of the drugs, they
:42:55. > :43:01.need the help to help them kick the habit. After that, if that is
:43:01. > :43:06.shunned... There are thousands of people in prison for drug offences.
:43:06. > :43:09.It is a sin, it is a crime against this country that they are in
:43:10. > :43:13.prison for something they should be given treatment for, not being put
:43:14. > :43:18.into prison. But one that is rejected and shunned, it needs to
:43:18. > :43:23.be dealt with as a criminal offence. -- when that is rejected. Let's
:43:23. > :43:27.hear from Ben. If you are going to decriminalise cannabis, you might
:43:27. > :43:32.as well decriminalise all drugs. But that does not take the point
:43:32. > :43:37.away from addiction. Forget that I was addicted to any other drug, I
:43:37. > :43:41.was addicted to alcohol as well. If I am an addict, I will get addicted
:43:41. > :43:48.to something. There. We are trying to make is what are we going to do
:43:48. > :43:53.about addiction? -- the. We are trying to make. I work with a dance
:43:53. > :43:57.company which is totally underfunded. Where do we get the
:43:57. > :44:06.funding? It plays a major part in our recovery. There needs to be
:44:06. > :44:09.more done. Addicts need practical help. Putting them into jail for a
:44:09. > :44:13.crime with no -- no victim other than themselves, if they did not
:44:13. > :44:21.there would be more money for treatment, giving people those
:44:21. > :44:26.options. A few people are, like, I smoke cannabis, I take heroin, I
:44:27. > :44:30.drink alcohol, let's have it legalised. I've got Crone --
:44:30. > :44:37.Crohn's disease. My dad has got Crohn's disease, he does not blaze
:44:37. > :44:40.but. That is your justification, mate. There are no simple answers
:44:40. > :44:44.and jail is the simplest answer. And it ruins the lives of people
:44:44. > :44:48.and families. It costs money and makes the whole situation worse.
:44:48. > :44:58.Let people talk about it openly, give them information and let them
:44:58. > :45:05.
:45:05. > :45:11.We need to look at why people turn to drugs. A lot of the time, they
:45:11. > :45:14.will get people off drugs and there's no support afterwards. Our
:45:14. > :45:21.dance company is not funded. We need help to help people in
:45:21. > :45:26.recovery. Where is the practical help coming from? Where is Anthony?
:45:26. > :45:31.You are a drugs and alcohol Liaison Officer. You are in A&E at the
:45:31. > :45:36.weekends. The idea is that for young people under the age of 19,
:45:36. > :45:40.we pick them up when they are first coming in with alcohol or drug use,
:45:40. > :45:44.and they are referred to me to get an assessment, and they get access
:45:44. > :45:50.to treatment earlier. The idea is that for every �1 you spend on
:45:51. > :45:57.young people's services, you save �3 in the long run. The difficulty
:45:57. > :46:01.it, again, is funding. We are funded by Red Nose Day. But it is
:46:01. > :46:05.about funding. It is about putting it in the right places to support
:46:05. > :46:10.the right people. You were dead right when you say it is not just,
:46:10. > :46:14.it is about dealing with the core issue, but then helping somebody to
:46:14. > :46:19.build a life without drugs or building a life where they use less
:46:19. > :46:23.drugs and it has less of an impact on their lives.
:46:23. > :46:28.It should not be about legalising drugs. It should be about fixing
:46:28. > :46:33.the social causes, why people turn to drugs. We are going to have to
:46:33. > :46:43.wrap this up. We could talk about this all night. Tina, any online
:46:43. > :46:44.
:46:44. > :46:49.comments? Lows. We need to target drug dealers. -- loads. Lots of
:46:49. > :46:53.people agreeing with Alistair and Matthew. They reflect a lot of the
:46:53. > :46:58.audience. Alastair says, being debated is a medical problem, but
:46:58. > :47:05.choosing to take the drug is criminal and your own choice. --
:47:05. > :47:10.being addicted. Matthew says it is a criminal and social it sue --
:47:10. > :47:14.issue. Judy's comment - I find it interesting that we had different
:47:14. > :47:20.views on those who are addicted on food to those who are addicted to
:47:20. > :47:27.drugs. Steph, you have slipped back because of your views against
:47:27. > :47:31.legalising drugs. Alun is still struggling for popularity. The
:47:31. > :47:37.others are neck and neck. We are going to have to me at it on
:47:37. > :47:41.now. Time is running out. You could be the Conservatives into third
:47:41. > :47:44.place in the Eastleigh by-election. -- UKIP beat the Conservatives.
:47:45. > :47:51.Nigel Farage claims people feel mainstream politicians are unable
:47:52. > :47:55.to keep their promises. Catherine, where are you? By-elections always
:47:55. > :48:00.go against the government. Are replacing too much importance on
:48:00. > :48:06.the result in Eastleigh? What do we think, Steph?
:48:06. > :48:11.I think it has got to be noted, that kind of result. But I agree. I
:48:11. > :48:15.was elected in a by-election on to the council, which then brings
:48:15. > :48:19.everybody out. There's more publicity about a by-election. I
:48:19. > :48:23.think we need to take notice of that. The public are getting fed up
:48:23. > :48:28.of politics. They are getting fed up of politicians. They are getting
:48:28. > :48:33.fed up of seeing the same faces sitting in a big room, saying, that
:48:33. > :48:38.is your fault, your administration did that. The public are sick of it.
:48:38. > :48:41.When somebody comes in with a fresher voice and no accountability,
:48:41. > :48:44.because when you are one of the big three you don't have the same kind
:48:44. > :48:48.of accountability because you are not in power and you're not in
:48:48. > :48:52.opposition. Essentially, you can say whatever you want that will
:48:52. > :48:57.carry favour. If you are the public, who are sick and tired of hearing
:48:57. > :49:02.what he is saying and I am saying, I am saying there's a fresher voice.
:49:03. > :49:06.A lot of it can be a protest vote. But that does a disservice to the
:49:06. > :49:09.public. We have to recognise they are going somewhere else because
:49:09. > :49:15.there's something wrong with us. What are we doing to address the
:49:15. > :49:23.issue? Kate, are we falling out of love with politics? People are not
:49:23. > :49:27.being engaged in the right way, firstly. I remember when I mum,
:49:27. > :49:37.Tony Blair got into power, and she passionately had gone around trying
:49:37. > :49:47.to get people to support Labour. bet she regrets it now! She regrets
:49:47. > :49:50.voted for somebody that totally let her down. If you have been let down
:49:50. > :49:56.by the three main parties, who all have different things to say and
:49:56. > :50:05.then act in the same way, you know, walk the walk and then don't talk
:50:06. > :50:12.the talk. How can a new -- you expect to engage young people? I
:50:12. > :50:16.remember going to Prime Minister's Question Time. I was 15 and I went
:50:16. > :50:22.in to watch these grown ups arguing. It really was just arguing. It
:50:22. > :50:26.reminded me of the friends I had to went to private school and sat on
:50:26. > :50:31.the train making fun of each other in a really know the way. They were
:50:31. > :50:35.just scoffing. I was shocked. I could not believe these are the
:50:35. > :50:45.people who run the country. I was 15! I felt I could have done a
:50:45. > :50:47.
:50:47. > :50:51.better job. You are just not engaging with youth culture. All of
:50:51. > :50:57.these people are here today because they care about politics. Politics
:50:57. > :51:03.is not broken. Politics is alive. But it is just getting people to
:51:03. > :51:10.engage in government. That is a different thing. We have got some
:51:10. > :51:15.young at you keep members in. Where is Robin? A good result. -- UKIP
:51:15. > :51:23.members. To go back to eat you calling us a protest vote, there's
:51:23. > :51:28.a lot to protest about. UKIP came second in Eastleigh. A fantastic
:51:28. > :51:36.result. But this is not the first by-election we came second in. We
:51:36. > :51:40.came second in Middlesbrough, and we did well in Corby. Young people,
:51:40. > :51:45.in particular, are looking to it UKIP as a new political force. A
:51:45. > :51:50.lot of people are looking at us as an old Tory grid. That is not true
:51:50. > :52:00.at all. It is not true at all! Will take the votes of Labour and the
:52:00. > :52:08.Lib Dems. That was clear in Rotherham. We are into a new era of
:52:08. > :52:16.politics. UKIP is there to fix the broken old politics. UKIP is on the
:52:16. > :52:22.rise. The gentleman behind the had his eyes close for a lot of that. -
:52:22. > :52:29.- behind you. It is foolish to think that the fall of the Lib Dems
:52:29. > :52:37.is anything to a -- is due to anything other than that the Lib
:52:37. > :52:42.Dems used to be the protest party and are now the establishment. The
:52:42. > :52:46.three main parties are much more part of the Establishment. I am
:52:47. > :52:56.sure that these guys are enjoying their moment in the limelight. I
:52:56. > :53:02.hope they enjoy it while it lasts. Alun. Was this result a worry for
:53:02. > :53:04.your party? By-elections are different. When a government is
:53:04. > :53:10.trying to make some difficult decisions, we have talked about
:53:10. > :53:15.housing and drugs, we talk about all areas of public policy in the
:53:15. > :53:18.economy, and it is tough out there. To get on top of the debt, people
:53:18. > :53:27.are feeling the pinch. Living standards are not rising like we
:53:27. > :53:33.would like them too. Therefore, people need to raise their voices.
:53:33. > :53:38.That is what happened in Eastleigh. People left the Lib Dems, they left
:53:38. > :53:45.the Conservative Party. When it comes to a general election, I
:53:45. > :53:50.think people generally are interested in what happens in the
:53:50. > :53:54.country. They are interested in the leading parties. This is an
:53:54. > :54:00.opportunity to make a protest about what they are feeling at the moment.
:54:00. > :54:08.That is only right and fair. Quickly, who feels politics is
:54:08. > :54:13.broken? Who has lost faith? It is about the party's being fresh, but
:54:13. > :54:17.I think you have to have fresh people as well. In America,
:54:17. > :54:23.celebrities are really involved. They get there follow was to take
:54:23. > :54:30.part. Like, Beyonce and other celebrities. Kate, his is something
:54:30. > :54:35.you would consider doing? That is totally right. It brings a cool
:54:35. > :54:41.element. When politicians try to act cool, it comes of embarrassing.
:54:41. > :54:51.You want to get cool people involved. I definitely think that
:54:51. > :54:53.
:54:53. > :54:59.is really important, yeah. In 1997, they did cool and it was cringe
:54:59. > :55:07.worthy. We have too much celebrity culture in this country. We don't
:55:07. > :55:12.need more. I agree. I think celebrity culture is like Gross.
:55:12. > :55:16.Just because somebody is a celebrity doesn't mean they can't
:55:16. > :55:21.have an opinion. They have a platform to inspire young people.
:55:22. > :55:29.We're going to leave it there. You two can talk afterwards. Abigail
:55:29. > :55:34.says people are not taught about politics. Oliver agrees and says,
:55:34. > :55:43.politics and politicians are the fault. It is time for no more
:55:43. > :55:48.politics of politicians. I'm not quite sure what he means! Let's
:55:49. > :55:58.take a final look at the power bar to see if anything has changed. Sam,
:55:58. > :56:02.you are the winner! Congratulations ex back -- congratulations!
:56:02. > :56:07.I think the discussion about drugs and fat taxes is the thing that
:56:07. > :56:12.makes me sad about politics, the thing that individuals don't matter
:56:12. > :56:16.any more. Everybody has a plan from -- for how they want to live their
:56:16. > :56:21.lives. What I would like is for people to take a step back, step
:56:21. > :56:31.out of people's lives, a lovable to make their own decisions. Let's
:56:31. > :56:32.
:56:32. > :56:37.have a smaller state, one that does That is almost it. We are running
:56:37. > :56:42.late. We don't have time to discuss Justin Bieber. Never mind. Thank