:00:07. > :00:09.This is Free Speech. Tonight zero hours contracts and earn or learn.
:00:09. > :00:17.education, is it still too hard hours contracts and earn or learn.
:00:17. > :00:23.go to uni? Have your say on the stories that matter to you live
:00:23. > :00:24.go to uni? Have your say on the BBC Three. If you are on a zero
:00:24. > :00:49.hours contract you only get two hours a week, it is pointless.
:00:49. > :01:00.young people are that. Teenagers are I'm Rick Edwards and there is a
:01:00. > :01:01.young people are that. Teenagers are to talk about tonight. Exclusive
:01:01. > :01:04.interviews with Ed Miliband and to talk about tonight. Exclusive
:01:04. > :01:07.Clegg, and their answers to your questions. Stay with me for Free
:01:08. > :01:13.Speech, live from the Guildhall questions. Stay with me for Free
:01:13. > :01:15.CHEERING They are here to tell us what they think and we want to hear
:01:15. > :01:26.Daheley. Good evening to you. I what they think and we want to hear
:01:26. > :01:46.One really easy way to get your voice heard is via the Power Bar. I
:01:46. > :01:52.responds in real-time to what you think of the panel's point of view.
:01:52. > :01:57.And it operates via Twitter. Use #yes or #no followed by the first
:01:57. > :02:01.name of a panellist each time you agree or disagree with them. And
:02:01. > :02:06.here is our panel whose job is to tell us who they are and why they
:02:06. > :02:07.are here. Katie? I'm Katie Hopkins, I'm a businesswoman and broadcaster
:02:07. > :02:13.and I'm here for all the people I'm a businesswoman and broadcaster
:02:13. > :02:18.are fed up with things that are politically correct. I'm Julian
:02:19. > :02:23.Huppert, I'm a Member of Parliament for Cambridge. I'm passionate about
:02:23. > :02:31.free speech and I'm pleads it is coming to Cambridge, capital of
:02:31. > :02:32.free speech and I'm pleads it is speech. I'm Laurie Penny and I'm a
:02:32. > :02:58.Conservative Party and we have speech. I'm Laurie Penny and I'm a
:02:58. > :02:58.Conservative Party and we have you wanted to put to our political
:02:58. > :03:04.a big topic. More than 1 million you wanted to put to our political
:03:05. > :03:14.Nick Clegg have to say about them? under 25 you are twice as likely to
:03:14. > :03:16.Nick Clegg have to say about them? I think that many people are right
:03:16. > :03:20.to be concerned about zero hours contracts. In my office recently he
:03:20. > :03:23.to be concerned about zero hours a care workers from Newcastle who
:03:23. > :03:28.told me his story. He said to me, I can't build my life around around a
:03:28. > :03:32.zero hours contract because I don't know from one week to another how
:03:32. > :03:36.many hours I will be doing and how much wages we would be getting.
:03:37. > :03:39.We'll ban certain types of zero hours contracts. They can exploit
:03:39. > :03:45.some employees. They might work hours contracts. They can exploit
:03:45. > :03:48.some people, but for instance in situations where you have a zero
:03:48. > :03:55.whether that employer will need situations where you have a zero
:03:55. > :03:59.and you prevented from looking for other forms of employment, that
:03:59. > :04:03.and you prevented from looking for think might be really unfair. We are
:04:03. > :04:07.contracts, because we think Britain can do better than the kind of
:04:07. > :04:12.insecurity that many zero hours contracts offer to people. So we are
:04:12. > :04:16.reviewing it very carefully and we'll come forward with measures to
:04:16. > :04:17.make sure that zero hours contract hours offer flexibility where people
:04:18. > :04:28.need and want that but not in a hours offer flexibility where people
:04:28. > :04:33.Apologises for that slight sound problem with Ed Miliband. What would
:04:33. > :04:36.you like to ask? How can people support themselves on zero hours
:04:36. > :04:42.contracts? Let's start with you Katie. Don't hold back. I think
:04:42. > :04:44.contracts? Let's start with you many people actually zero hours
:04:44. > :04:49.contracts? Let's start with you really well and a great deal of
:04:49. > :04:53.nurses that work for nursing banks, 89% say they are brilliant, because
:04:53. > :04:56.they allow them theflect to look after their families to adapt their
:04:56. > :04:59.they allow them theflect to look work around their needs as a family
:04:59. > :05:01.and unit and allows them to work out how many hours they would like to do
:05:02. > :05:13.businesses out there really need. If how many hours they would like to do
:05:13. > :05:27.you classify your employees as redundancy pay. From my personal
:05:27. > :05:32.you classify your employees as that's paid maternity pay I think
:05:32. > :05:43.Would you agree with any of that? I hours contracts are fantastic for
:05:43. > :05:47.employers, but I'm not sure we should be concentrating our efforts
:05:47. > :05:49.on what's great for employers. This recovery is focused on handing money
:05:49. > :05:53.back to the rich at the expense recovery is focused on handing money
:05:53. > :05:55.the poor. Zero hours contracts are exploitative. They are devastating
:05:55. > :06:00.for individual people trying to exploitative. They are devastating
:06:00. > :06:03.their lives. When you talk about flexibility it is flexible for
:06:03. > :06:08.people who are employing but people who are working they have no choice.
:06:08. > :06:12.They are not allowed to choose when they come into work and when they
:06:12. > :06:14.don't. They are waiting for their employer to call or not, while their
:06:14. > :06:19.basic rights are taken away. It employer to call or not, while their
:06:19. > :06:23.outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. APPLAUSE Who agrees with Laurie
:06:23. > :06:27.outrageous and shouldn't be allowed. who agrees with Katie? No-one agrees
:06:27. > :06:33.with anyone? I agree that zero hours especially for me as a student.
:06:33. > :06:38.with anyone? I agree that zero hours means I haveflect if I have loads of
:06:38. > :06:44.work on at uni I can ring up and say I'm I can't work this week. You
:06:44. > :06:46.work on at uni I can ring up and say an interview with a proof employer
:06:46. > :06:50.and at the end interview you know what you are signing. If you need
:06:50. > :06:57.hours that you are relying on for income, don't sign for a zero hours
:06:57. > :07:01.fantastic people like that who recognise an opportunity when they
:07:01. > :07:10.see one and happens to agree with fantastic relationship with people
:07:10. > :07:16.like yourselves. She said being fantastic relationship with people
:07:16. > :07:18.time with what the girl said, so what about when you finish uni and
:07:18. > :07:25.money at the end of the day. That's what not? You need to get a bit
:07:25. > :07:27.money at the end of the day. That's not a bit of money at the end of the
:07:27. > :07:30.day. That's not going to - zaoer contracted hours, if you are not at
:07:30. > :07:31.uni or what not, you want to be flexible with money. That's not
:07:31. > :08:09.team Katie there. My company pays part-time thing, so... OK. If you
:08:09. > :08:11.team Katie there. My company pays they are probably talking about
:08:11. > :08:14.team Katie there. My company pays pay, maybe getting paid for overtime
:08:14. > :08:17.too. Julian? There are clearly some cases where people want to work
:08:17. > :08:19.too. Julian? There are clearly some hours contracts and it does work.
:08:19. > :08:25.That's fine. But they are also been thousands of people trying to make a
:08:25. > :08:28.living to earn the cash to get through the work. If you have no
:08:28. > :08:33.idea how much work you will have, that's hard. People are locked in to
:08:33. > :08:37.particular employers but may get no hours. People are being punished,
:08:37. > :08:41.they will get fewer hours next week. It is really hard. I suspect a lot
:08:41. > :08:43.of people don't get the national minimum wage when they are on it. We
:08:43. > :08:48.have to massively clamp down on minimum wage when they are on it. We
:08:48. > :08:54.exploitative ones so that people can have the opportunity for security. I
:08:54. > :08:59.don't see maternity pay and sick pay as luxuries that we can scrap. It is
:08:59. > :09:03.really important... But you've never paid them. You've never been a small
:09:03. > :09:07.business employer. People have to get on with their lives. You've
:09:07. > :09:11.never paid them. I think they are fantastic things and I'm delighted
:09:11. > :09:15.that we are in a situation where we can look after people who are sick
:09:15. > :09:22.and pregnant. Until you've paid them, you can't really speech. I
:09:22. > :09:29.APPLAUSE Katie thinks you shouldn't speak but I'm going to let you. A
:09:29. > :09:32.pertinent point about the need for jobs after University. If we hadn't
:09:32. > :09:37.created 1 million jobs this the jobs after University. If we hadn't
:09:37. > :09:40.few years, for every one job created under zero hours contracts we've had
:09:40. > :09:44.11 jobs being created in that time. So we have theflect coming in, so
:09:44. > :09:48.people that are students, as we kids, people who need to be able to
:09:48. > :09:53.have flebl hours, they can have kids, people who need to be able to
:09:53. > :09:57.and everyone can progress on to kids, people who need to be able to
:09:57. > :10:01.afterwards. A really important job cks point, do you have the right as
:10:01. > :10:05.an employee on zero hours contracts to turn down the hours that your
:10:05. > :10:07.employer has offered you. It offers flect to the employer and employee.
:10:07. > :10:12.It is win, win and to try to make flect to the employer and employee.
:10:12. > :10:18.that legal, as o the employer and flect to the employer and employee.
:10:18. > :10:31.be offered hours the next week. I Party are, it will put thousands of
:10:31. > :10:33.be offered hours the next week. I seriously discussing whether it
:10:34. > :10:37.should be permissible to take away maternity pay and sickness benefits
:10:37. > :10:47.for hundreds of thousands of people. many people in this country rely on
:10:47. > :10:51.employers don't like to pay them. That's why they are written into
:10:51. > :10:55.law. If employers didn't have to pay their workers anything I'm sure
:10:55. > :11:05.law. If employers didn't have to pay working people have always had to
:11:05. > :11:09.APPLAUSE Small business employers... Small business employers are the
:11:09. > :11:14.enengine house of this economy. That's what we are told. They are
:11:14. > :11:19.the ones that are generating jobs, the ones that will give you guys
:11:19. > :11:24.jobs and the ones that need to be defended from this type of liberal
:11:24. > :11:30.thinking. We've heard from all of judgment time for the panel. Let's
:11:30. > :11:46.Where's Alex? Are you for or against zero hours contracts? I'm extremely
:11:46. > :11:50.against zero hours contracts. I zero hours contracts? I'm extremely
:11:50. > :11:53.a zero hours contract at the moment, but I think it is just the tip of
:11:53. > :11:58.the iceberg. It's about eroding but I think it is just the tip of
:11:58. > :12:09.rights as young people in and out of work. As well as working a zero
:12:09. > :12:13.hours contract, I also was self employed door-to-door. Because
:12:13. > :12:16.hours contract, I also was self self employed I wasn't eligible
:12:16. > :12:27.hours contract, I also was self minimum wage, sick pay, holiday
:12:28. > :12:36.hours contract, I also was self tuition fees, David Cameron saying
:12:36. > :12:45.hours contract, I also was self sort of picture that these people
:12:45. > :12:52.be treated like come out of work or for another pointless war that David
:12:52. > :12:52.be treated like come out of work or Cameron seems so willing to start
:12:52. > :12:57.again. It is not good enough to Cameron seems so willing to start
:12:57. > :12:59.expect young people to take such piecemeal offers while the rest
:12:59. > :13:02.expect young people to take such society gets so much more than we
:13:02. > :13:08.do, just because we are young and because we want a flebl lifestyle.
:13:08. > :13:10.Of society gets so much more than we do, just because we are young and
:13:10. > :13:14.because we want a flebl lifestyle. It's -- a flexible lifestyle. It is
:13:14. > :13:17.APPLAUSE Due feel like a slave? No, I've worked a zero hours contract
:13:17. > :13:18.and feel if anything I have a better relationship with my employer,
:13:18. > :13:23.because ky say, is I can't work relationship with my employer,
:13:23. > :13:28.weekend, and they say, can you work this? And I say, yes I can. I'm
:13:28. > :13:31.weekend, and they say, can you work uni, so it is perfect. I can go
:13:32. > :13:38.home, do my work and concentrate on my degree. All I can say, I disagree
:13:38. > :13:46.with Katie and I agree with this employer shows their employee I
:13:46. > :13:50.with Katie and I agree with this they show it back to them. If they
:13:50. > :13:54.are not going to give them the hours, I hope they won't put in
:13:54. > :13:58.are not going to give them the work. I hope the business loses
:13:58. > :14:03.money because he doesn't earn money. I don't know if you have ever had
:14:03. > :14:09.the stress of not getting sick pay, but if you have a contract where you
:14:09. > :14:17.don't get it and you are ill and you have to force yourself to go back to
:14:17. > :14:24.you are not well enough to do your job and you are not going pay.
:14:24. > :14:28.LAUGHTER Secondly... But you would if you got ill. People who work
:14:28. > :14:31.LAUGHTER Secondly... But you would themselves, small business owners,
:14:31. > :14:39.have a third of the sick days that have to get out there and earn and
:14:39. > :14:40.have a third of the sick days that we can't be lounging around in bed
:14:40. > :14:45.complaini about a little bit of we can't be lounging around in bed
:14:45. > :14:54.flu. I'm an a zero hours contract holiday pay and sick pay. I think a
:14:54. > :15:04.at quiet times of the year. It is lot of employers wouldn't be able to
:15:04. > :15:12.at quiet times of the year. It is can be good for some people but
:15:12. > :15:21.at quiet times of the year. It is everyone, so they are not being
:15:21. > :15:21.at quiet times of the year. It is APPLAUSE Loads of messages coming
:15:22. > :15:53.We've been talking about small businesses but big businesses use
:15:53. > :15:55.them too. If you want your point of view read out you have got to make
:15:55. > :16:16.earning or learning. The Prime Minister says that a Conservative
:16:16. > :16:18.Government after 2015 will axe housing benefit and jobseeker's
:16:18. > :16:23.allowance for under 25s if they don't take their chance to earn
:16:23. > :16:29.allowance for under 25s if they learn. Cue Mr Cameron. Go to school,
:16:29. > :16:42.apprenticeship, get a job, but just choose the dole? We've got to offer
:16:42. > :16:46.learning. Amy has a question for us. How can the Government completely
:16:46. > :16:55.justify cutting all benefits for young people? I need to do something
:16:55. > :17:03.Oliver? Oliver? I think what we Twitter right now, so join in and
:17:04. > :17:05.Oliver? Oliver? I think what we heard from David Cameron is we have
:17:05. > :17:09.to give people an alternative that's better than that. It is not about
:17:09. > :17:12.cutting the cords and letting people fall but giving a real offer to
:17:12. > :17:22.people in terms of better education, better training on the job and
:17:22. > :17:49.actually get back into work under large number of workless households
:17:49. > :17:52.actually get back into work under better than benefits I'm not sure
:17:52. > :17:56.how you can oppose the idea of people earning or learning. There
:17:56. > :18:01.are 1 million young people out of work and you've cut EMA, tripled
:18:01. > :18:04.tuition fees. We've got the biggest crisis in youth unemployment in
:18:04. > :18:11.living memory. You can't say that the future is bright for young
:18:11. > :18:19.people in employment right now. What we have seen a applications to
:18:19. > :18:23.universities increase over the past three or four years, number of
:18:23. > :18:31.increase. David Cameron said we three or four years, number of
:18:31. > :18:34.to off people a better alternative. That's what it is about. It is not
:18:34. > :18:41.about having a stick and hitting young people. That would be absurd
:18:41. > :18:49.and we would oppose that. It's the review by Jeremy Heywood, who used
:18:49. > :18:50.addressing the real problems that keep people out of employment.
:18:50. > :18:55.Julian, do you think Mr Cameron keep people out of employment.
:18:55. > :19:00.offing a better of to young people? The Government is not doing this. We
:19:00. > :19:04.in the Lib Dems have said to the Tories no, you can't do it. We've
:19:04. > :19:10.said no to their plans to scrap least until them and hopefully
:19:10. > :19:16.forever. I've taken the manager least until them and hopefully
:19:16. > :19:22.the YMCA to see Iain Duncan Smith why you can't say to people in a
:19:22. > :19:30.YMCA, go home and stay with your loving, stable family. I wish they
:19:30. > :19:36.say that we want to see young people absolutely right but ping punishing
:19:36. > :19:42.people who cannot find a job, people applications out. If you take money
:19:42. > :19:52.out you are not going to send even have to help people into employment.
:19:52. > :20:04.apprentices, with the fantastic Cambridge regional college nearby
:20:04. > :20:09.Punishing them is an absurd idea. learn. That's the right thing to
:20:09. > :20:13.Punishing them is an absurd idea. Hopefully it won't ever happen. It
:20:13. > :20:17.is the right ambition but gone about the wrong way. What's the social
:20:17. > :20:22.media response? Fiona has agreed with you. Stopping benefits for
:20:22. > :20:25.media response? Fiona has agreed to 24-year-old will do nothing to
:20:25. > :20:28.tackle unemployment but will simply cause misery, poverty, homelessness
:20:28. > :20:34.and ill health for millions of unemployment? If the Government
:20:34. > :20:40.stopped cutting jobs and created basically you don't become a citizen
:20:40. > :20:44.until you are 25. Housing benefits claimed by thousands of people who
:20:44. > :20:49.work, so you are saying people in towards other people's benefits
:20:49. > :20:50.work, so you are saying people in not be entitled to them themselves.
:20:50. > :20:55.An interesting point. Katie? It not be entitled to them themselves.
:20:55. > :21:00.time we started being fair to people who paid money out for people to
:21:00. > :21:06.claim welfare. It is time we started focusing on the hard-working people
:21:06. > :21:08.in this country. If it was me I would hand out jobseeker's allowance
:21:08. > :21:17.between the hours of 6.00am and would hand out jobseeker's allowance
:21:17. > :21:22.6.00pm and up 18 flights of stairs. People assume welfare is the right
:21:22. > :21:33.way to go. We want people to work harder, fight harder and... There's
:21:33. > :21:41.a lot of people at home... ALL TALK AT People are sick of people paying
:21:41. > :21:45.out for others and they don't draw the occur Tehrans and look for work.
:21:45. > :21:49.You can huff and puff as much as you like. I'm sure the people out of
:21:50. > :21:54.work right now would love to be hundreds of thousands of people
:21:54. > :21:55.work right now would love to be unable to get a job. They are unable
:21:55. > :21:58.to find stable employment. Many unable to get a job. They are unable
:21:58. > :22:08.them are on zero hours contracts that you mentioned you a would love
:22:08. > :22:19.rest you need to live. Many of those young people can't just run home to
:22:19. > :22:23.rest you need to live. Many of those poor young people, teenage runaways,
:22:23. > :22:29.year and the Government need to for years the Government's been
:22:29. > :22:32.year and the Government need to taking away benefits, vital services
:22:32. > :22:37.and education for young people it is great that the Liberal Democrats
:22:37. > :22:44.the rights of young people but where tripling tuition fees, when they
:22:44. > :22:57.were taking away EMA. Do you want an opposed fees, I voted against the
:22:57. > :23:01.completely the wrong thing to do. It introduced them in the first place.
:23:01. > :23:09.On EMA I fought hard. There was introduced them in the first place.
:23:09. > :23:12.special thing so that the most vulnerable people, care givers.
:23:12. > :23:14.special thing so that the most don't like the fact that there's
:23:14. > :23:20.less money after all but I'm pleased that the most desperate get more
:23:20. > :23:31.money than they did under EMA. Amy, you posed the question, what do
:23:31. > :23:33.money than they did under EMA. Amy, can't go home to mummy and daddy.
:23:34. > :23:38.For the last nine months I've been working with young people who are
:23:38. > :23:42.homeless, people with mental health issues, it was originally a six
:23:42. > :23:45.month contract. Council extended it for another three months and then it
:23:45. > :23:49.ended and there was no money left. Now I work six hours a month and I'm
:23:49. > :23:54.doing everything I can every day to find another job but I haven't got
:23:54. > :23:59.one yet. I can't go running home to mummy and daddy, so I'm going to
:23:59. > :24:13.have to sleep on a park bench if APPLAUSE Under the help to work
:24:13. > :24:17.scheme there's three simple criteria that will allow tow continue to
:24:17. > :24:28.claim benefits. Turning the up to the Jobcentre to sign on every day.
:24:28. > :24:34.which I think is a positive thing. I committed a crime I thought they
:24:34. > :25:02.which I think is a positive thing. I were the ones that picked up litter.
:25:02. > :25:07.which I think is a positive thing. I work you should be paid. We have a
:25:07. > :25:11.minimum wage, so if you are... Excuse me, can I make my point?
:25:12. > :25:15.You've made a lot of points tonight, most of them I think are environment
:25:16. > :25:18.a really important point, when you work you should be paid. We have a
:25:18. > :25:25.minimum wage. If you are forced work you should be paid. We have a
:25:25. > :25:29.work 40 hour weeks. You have got the wrong attitude, Sir. This is a
:25:29. > :25:34.disgusting attack on the welfare state. We have welfare for all
:25:34. > :25:42.working class people. Katie, can you stop and allow people po speak. We
:25:42. > :25:44.have welfare for working class people. People create the wealth.
:25:44. > :25:52.Why are they attacked. The PCS, people. People create the wealth.
:25:52. > :25:57.trade union of the workers who run the Jobcentres say that the scheme
:25:57. > :26:01.is unworkable. Workers are having run the scheme. Not only is it a
:26:01. > :26:10.horrible attack on young people run the scheme. Not only is it a
:26:10. > :26:16.APPLAUSE You Sir. I think everyone is making it sound like there's
:26:16. > :26:19.APPLAUSE You Sir. I think everyone Cambridge one month and have been
:26:19. > :26:24.offered three jobs already and I've taken one of them. I think it is
:26:24. > :26:25.disgusting that people are paying more money than my family do. They
:26:25. > :26:30.are sitting at home an benefits more money than my family do. They
:26:30. > :26:38.are getting more than us. Good man. Good for you. Katie, I don't doubt
:26:38. > :26:48.you haven't worked hard in the past. You must have worked hard in the
:26:48. > :26:51.forgotten how it feels to suffer and you haven't born in mind it is so
:26:51. > :26:55.much harder nowadays. You don't you haven't born in mind it is so
:26:55. > :26:59.how it feels. This is why we are against you and we are with the
:26:59. > :28:08.Is there something wrong with the Power Bar? It is definitely working.
:28:08. > :28:13.Use #yes or #no followed by their first name. Make your voice heard on
:28:13. > :28:22.Free Speech. Tweet the Power Bar. Cambridge it is freshers week. Have
:28:22. > :28:28.you signed up for pottery club and stuff? Good. More than 400,000
:28:28. > :28:30.education this autumn, more than ever before. High demand but is
:28:30. > :28:50.Here's what people in Cambridge ever before. High demand but is
:28:50. > :28:56.I think access to higher education is extremely unequal. I think if you
:28:57. > :29:18.I am a medical student at Cambridge, background. With motivation, hard
:29:18. > :29:31.work and support I think everyone can get into the best universities
:29:31. > :29:55.about £4,000 a year in burst ris and I got a lot of financial help.
:29:55. > :29:58.about £4,000 a year in burst ris and I'm from a hostel and I'm in my
:29:58. > :30:02.first year of college and I have a very long way to go to get to umplt
:30:02. > :30:10.I'm extremely determined to get And Nick has a question for the
:30:10. > :30:16.panel. Is access to higher education still too elitist? Is access to
:30:16. > :30:20.panel. Is access to higher education education still too elitist? Jewel
:30:20. > :30:23.yarntion you are the tist? Is access to hire education still too elitist?
:30:23. > :30:25.Jewel yarntion you are the MP for Cambridge -- jewel yarntion you
:30:25. > :30:26.Jewel yarntion you are the MP for the MP for Cambridge. There's a
:30:26. > :30:31.still huge problem. We are not getting a fair balance of people in.
:30:31. > :30:36.Since fees have changed, which I don't like, we've seen an increase
:30:36. > :30:38.disadvantaged backgrounds coming in. Part of the problem is not all
:30:38. > :30:41.schools are equally good. There Part of the problem is not all
:30:42. > :30:47.huge problem that in disadvantaged areas we have worse schools. That is
:30:47. > :30:49.not OK. We can't fail people at primary and secondary school and say
:30:49. > :30:58.the universities can fix it. We primary and secondary school and say
:30:58. > :31:04.to put more money into schools for backgrounds, it is called the pupil
:31:04. > :31:07.premium. We need a level playing field so by the time people are
:31:07. > :31:07.premium. We need a level playing they have had a fair opportunity and
:31:07. > :31:10.had the chance. We have to make they have had a fair opportunity and
:31:10. > :31:12.the universities are fair. Cambridge has three fantastic universities. It
:31:12. > :31:17.is great to see at least two of has three fantastic universities. It
:31:17. > :31:22.represented here. I know from having done admissions interviews we try
:31:22. > :31:25.really hard to get it right. But it is frustrating when you have people
:31:25. > :31:29.who've been let down by the system before that. There is a long, long
:31:29. > :31:34.way to go to get the right people in. It is not all about higher
:31:34. > :31:38.education. It has annoyed me for years, in this country we've talked
:31:38. > :31:42.about university and the good thing to do and vocation apprenticeships
:31:42. > :31:57.pleased we are trying to encourage to do and vocation apprenticeships
:31:57. > :31:59.I don't know if there's apprentices to do and vocation apprenticeships
:31:59. > :32:03.in the radio. I have one working to do and vocation apprenticeships
:32:03. > :32:08.a lot. It is something I want to see to do and vocation apprenticeships
:32:08. > :32:12.many more of. Katie? I think for me, I our state school system is broken.
:32:12. > :32:18.many more of. Katie? I think for me, There's a lot of parents working
:32:18. > :32:24.schools, I know many of our panel such as Laurie enjoyed a private
:32:24. > :32:29.school educationment for those home who've worked hard and gone to
:32:29. > :32:34.private schools, who have excelled academically it is unfortunate that
:32:34. > :32:38.this society a making a bias against private schoolchildren, against
:32:38. > :32:46.private school students. We have targets for state schoolchildren or
:32:46. > :32:50.actually to state school students. I think it's the wrong way to go.
:32:50. > :32:52.actually to state school students. I can't stick a plaster on this thing.
:32:52. > :32:54.You can't go to the funeral casket of a patient and start trying to
:32:54. > :32:58.mend that patient and help them of a patient and start trying to
:32:58. > :33:02.better. This is about state school systems failing children. You can't
:33:02. > :33:06.then set targets at university level that set a bias against the private
:33:06. > :33:11.school system that so many people are working dreadfully hard to keep
:33:11. > :33:16.their children in. You genuinely believe there's a bias against
:33:16. > :33:18.private schoolchildren? Absolutely. LAUGHTER Private schoolchildren
:33:18. > :33:21.private schoolchildren? Absolutely. coming out with exceptional results
:33:22. > :33:25.and universities are supposed to be centres of academic ex-lengths.
:33:25. > :33:32.and universities are supposed to be that standard the same. Make it
:33:32. > :33:35.and universities are supposed to be that's the fairway of getting it
:33:35. > :33:43.sorted. Only 7% of children in this country are privately educated. If
:33:43. > :33:45.maintain the levels of private schoolchildren and their kind of
:33:45. > :33:50.privilege, you are condemning a schoolchildren and their kind of
:33:50. > :33:52.backgrounds to a life of poverty and to no education. I think that's
:33:52. > :34:02.APPLAUSE Gentleman in the front to no education. I think that's
:34:02. > :34:09.I'm a student from Bangladesh. For a to no education. I think that's
:34:10. > :34:13.Cambridge University and the tuition fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know
:34:13. > :34:19.some of my friends, they are really fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know
:34:19. > :34:46.high tuition fees they didn't ever fee was £22,000. It is huge. I know
:34:46. > :34:49.universities. So you are worried we might ng losing people not going to
:34:49. > :34:59.the best institutions? OK. Do you might ng losing people not going to
:35:00. > :35:05.academic qualification, the degree, is did devalued? I know Julian
:35:05. > :35:09.mentioned the apprentices, do the other members of the panel think
:35:09. > :35:15.that's a worthwhile substitute to reduce the value of the degree being
:35:15. > :35:20.devalued? We'll come back to that. We are live. You can talk to us
:35:20. > :35:25.devalued? We'll come back to that. We are on Facebook, Twitter and
:35:25. > :35:26.devalued? We'll come back to that. matters. Gary's on a course at
:35:26. > :35:32.university and says he cannot afford to pay the tuition fees. I've been
:35:32. > :35:34.cut out of Hyder education. Opposing view and controversially from Katie,
:35:34. > :35:39.the amount of money poor people view and controversially from Katie,
:35:39. > :35:44.thrown at them at uni is ridiculous. You don't pay the tuition fees until
:35:44. > :35:52.you've graduated. I didn't write that. I have no phone. Yeah! Laurie?
:35:52. > :35:56.Katie got right in there with an attempted dig saying I went to a
:35:56. > :35:59.private school. I've witnessed from handholding, amount of pressure
:35:59. > :36:05.there is on students who may or handholding, amount of pressure
:36:05. > :36:09.not be bright enough to get into the best universities, cramming them
:36:09. > :36:13.through this system, giving them every help to get these good grades.
:36:13. > :36:17.Anybody who has taken one recently, and that's probably most of the
:36:17. > :36:21.audience, can tell you that exams only measure one thing, how good you
:36:21. > :36:27.are at exams pt not measure of aptitude or how you are going to do
:36:27. > :36:30.are at exams pt not measure of at university. Having then gone
:36:30. > :36:34.are at exams pt not measure of private school to Oxford to an elite
:36:34. > :36:43.university I witnessed first hand how many real posh idiots ended
:36:43. > :36:46.university I witnessed first hand there and did Coke in the union
:36:46. > :36:57.barrier to meritocracy, to social bathrooms... Which is illegal! From
:36:57. > :37:00.barrier to meritocracy, to social mobility this country has. Yes many
:37:00. > :37:02.barrier to meritocracy, to social parents do work hard to send their
:37:02. > :37:08.barrier to meritocracy, to social kids to university, but if you are
:37:08. > :37:09.barrier to meritocracy, to social no opportunity to send your kids to
:37:09. > :37:14.a private school, so you are as no opportunity to send your kids to
:37:14. > :37:18.young lady said condemning millions of young people to never having
:37:18. > :37:26.young lady said condemning millions the education system we want in
:37:26. > :37:29.young lady said condemning millions APPLAUSE Oliver? I'm not sure if I'm
:37:29. > :37:32.the only statecated kid on this panel. I was rejected from all six
:37:32. > :37:38.universities I applied to first panel. I was rejected from all six
:37:38. > :37:46.discriminated against or for. It's a lottery is our state schools don't
:37:46. > :37:52.allow people to aspire well enough. I think our state education system,
:37:52. > :37:56.one size fits all system, built under Labour, failed millions of
:37:56. > :38:03.kids in our generation. I'm proud outrage proportionate to that,
:38:03. > :38:05.saying let's raise the standards of state schools rather than reducing
:38:05. > :38:09.theed? Our universities. We see state schools rather than reducing
:38:10. > :38:15.attitude among a lot of teachers in state schools that apparently their
:38:15. > :38:21.best kids can't go to university. A Sutton Trust poll sew showed that
:38:21. > :38:27.only 7 periods of state school pupils knew that half of people
:38:27. > :38:31.only 7 periods of state school educated. Most of the teachers said
:38:31. > :38:38.they wouldn't encourage their best Clamping down on aspiration is a
:38:38. > :38:46.crime. I'm prouded that cation is addressing that now. There was a
:38:46. > :38:48.programme called Aim Higher, said up we are addressing that now. There
:38:48. > :38:52.was a programme called Aim Higher, said up to -- set up to encourage
:38:52. > :38:54.was a programme called Aim Higher, to apply to very good universities,
:38:54. > :38:57.from the Russell Group. One of the first things that the Conservative
:38:57. > :39:04.Party did in office was cut that programme. How can you say this
:39:04. > :39:06.Party did in office was cut that Government is aspiring young people
:39:07. > :39:19.to aspire. This is non-innocence. I where students from state schools
:39:19. > :39:43.living is rising. NUS published where students from state schools
:39:43. > :39:48.per year. The student loan doesn't cover it. We saw figures say that
:39:48. > :39:53.86% of people from private schools applied to higher education and
:39:53. > :39:53.86% of people from private schools of students with free school meals
:39:53. > :39:58.apply. It needs to to be dealt. of students with free school meals
:39:59. > :40:01.student loan book and the potential privatisation of a student loan
:40:01. > :40:05.book, which is incredibly dangerous. There is no protection for students.
:40:05. > :40:08.If it is privatised students can be charged massive interest rates on it
:40:08. > :40:16.and it is awful. Something needs to APPLAUSE Where's Sophie? Do you
:40:16. > :40:21.think that the universities system is elitist? I don't always think
:40:21. > :40:26.it's elitist enough. I don't think it should have anything to do with
:40:26. > :40:30.class, before Katie thinks I'm going to be agreeing with, before Katie
:40:30. > :40:33.thinks I'm going to be agreeing to be agreeing with, before Katie
:40:33. > :40:35.this one -- with her on this one. I think so much people are pushed
:40:35. > :40:39.this one -- with her on this one. I applying for university because
:40:39. > :40:42.this one -- with her on this one. I records. I think that a lot of young
:40:42. > :40:47.people are applying at the moment because it is the cheapest way for a
:40:47. > :40:51.young person to leave home. Because of, that I think there is a lot
:40:51. > :40:55.young person to leave home. Because people at university that aren't as
:40:55. > :41:00.committed to the course as others, because they are not paying enough
:41:00. > :41:11.attention. I think the best way around that is to support taking the
:41:11. > :41:20.apprenticeships. Gentleman at the blaming the private schools for
:41:20. > :41:26.being too good. Why not concentrate on helping state schools get better?
:41:26. > :41:28.being too good. Why not concentrate I'm blaming them for being too
:41:28. > :41:38.expensive so people from the lowest APPLAUSE Let's make it so that
:41:38. > :41:45.country. If you look at the academy backgrounds can go to the best free
:41:45. > :41:47.country. If you look at the academy in Norfolk, having turned their
:41:47. > :41:58.school around from one of the worst though, because from a long time
:41:58. > :42:01.school around from one of the worst Bristol University was boycotted
:42:01. > :42:01.school around from one of the worst because it had a bias against the
:42:01. > :42:05.private sector. The wrong thing because it had a bias against the
:42:05. > :42:09.being penalised here. Private sector is doing education in the way that
:42:09. > :42:13.everybody ought to do it. I think if you come out of somewhere and you've
:42:13. > :42:18.excelled academically you have a right to a University place and
:42:18. > :42:22.excelled academically you have a shouldn't be based on contextual
:42:22. > :42:30.data. On how much money your parents have? You should know sweetie pee. I
:42:30. > :42:34.want to go back to making sure the schools are good enough. That's
:42:34. > :42:37.want to go back to making sure the You can do fantastic outreach, and
:42:37. > :42:41.Flick is right, just to be slightly parochial, here in occasions the
:42:41. > :42:48.state schools get the least per pupil of anywhere in the entire
:42:48. > :42:52.country. £600 per pupil per year less, £250,000 for any primary
:42:52. > :42:56.school. That's hitting education here. That's widening the space
:42:56. > :43:02.because the schools don't have properly. That has to change. It's
:43:02. > :43:07.been underfunded for decades. No Government's ever fixed it before.
:43:07. > :43:12.In parts of Cambridgeshire where deprivation children aren't getting
:43:12. > :43:17.the education they need when they are 7, 8 or 15. That simply cannot
:43:17. > :43:22.continue. A lot to be said on this topic. You the talk to us now on
:43:23. > :43:24.Twitter, Facebook and BBC Online. Picking up on your point Laurie
:43:24. > :44:04.about the bank of mum and dad: are returning to the questions you
:44:04. > :44:12.Legalisation or decriminalisation of are returning to the questions you
:44:12. > :44:24.drugs emerged as a big topic. When are returning to the questions you
:44:24. > :44:29.can be harmful. I don't want us are returning to the questions you
:44:29. > :44:33.drugs. Let's have proper education legalise drugs or decriminalise
:44:33. > :44:34.drugs. Let's have proper education about drugs in schools so that
:44:34. > :44:38.people understand the dangers of drugs. Let's have early intervention
:44:38. > :44:43.when people are going off the rails through drug use, and let's have
:44:43. > :44:47.proper drug treatment. I don't think we are winning the drugs war. It is
:44:47. > :44:52.frustrating that my Conservative coalition partners aren't prepared
:44:52. > :44:55.imaginatively. We've got senior police officers saying that the
:44:55. > :44:56.imaginatively. We've got senior on drugs is failing, that we should
:44:56. > :44:59.treat drug addiction as much as on drugs is failing, that we should
:44:59. > :45:05.health issue as a criminal justice one. All these things we need to
:45:05. > :45:09.look at. I don't think that waving a magic wand and making it legal is
:45:09. > :45:16.necessarily the right option. I decriminalisation or legalisation.
:45:16. > :45:22.The answer lies in better education, Another sound problem there. Again I
:45:22. > :45:31.apologise. Decriminalising means a drug user wouldn't be prosecuted for
:45:31. > :45:37.regulation of the sales of drugs. Surely decriminal sizing drugs risks
:45:37. > :45:39.facilitating distribution and access and increasing the number of addicts
:45:39. > :45:45.that will need help. Laurie, do and increasing the number of addicts
:45:45. > :45:52.think it would increase the number Portugal where decriminalisation was
:45:52. > :45:54.tried, there hasn't been a number p? In Portugal where decriminalisation
:45:54. > :45:57.was tried, there hasn't been a number of -- a drop in the number of
:45:57. > :46:02.people, but there's been a massive decriminalisation is one of changing
:46:02. > :46:09.the conversation around drugs from being an issue of criminal justice
:46:09. > :46:14.available to treat addicts and treat people who've problems with drugs,
:46:14. > :46:17.as they deserve to be treated with compassion, rather than simply
:46:17. > :46:23.criminalising them and throwing people in jail at enormous public
:46:23. > :46:32.the world. As you heard, most MPs cost, we would go some way towards
:46:32. > :46:34.the world. As you heard, most MPs agree that the war on drugs has
:46:34. > :46:49.the world. As you heard, most MPs lost. Most scientists agree that the
:46:49. > :46:51.the world. As you heard, most MPs working. I think 77% of MPs thought
:46:51. > :46:55.the world. As you heard, most MPs that the current drug policy was not
:46:55. > :47:03.working but only 30% would support decriminalisation of small amounts
:47:03. > :47:19.perhaps an old bag, would really can put in place age restrictions
:47:19. > :47:20.but then you will just see another black market coming in to fill that
:47:20. > :47:26.gap. 22% now of tobacco is sold black market coming in to fill that
:47:26. > :47:29.the black market. You would see something coming into fill that
:47:29. > :47:33.void. You talk about the fact that costs such a lot of money, that
:47:33. > :47:36.void. You talk about the fact that is not decriminalised at the moment,
:47:36. > :47:40.but it costs such a lot of money to treat addicts as well. It is a bad
:47:40. > :47:43.message to be giving out. We need to reinforce the message that drugs
:47:43. > :47:49.aren't the way to go. That is the message I give to my children.
:47:49. > :47:53.Where's Michael, what's your story? I'm a representative for a political
:47:53. > :47:58.party called Cannabis Law Reform in the UK. We are aiming to legalise
:47:58. > :48:00.cannabis so we can regulate the market. We can keep cannabis away
:48:00. > :48:03.from children by regulating are market. We can keep cannabis away
:48:03. > :48:08.The only form of identification market. We can keep cannabis away
:48:08. > :48:11.a dealer ever requires a £20. I think it is unacceptable for Katie
:48:11. > :48:20.to claim that she would like to think it is unacceptable for Katie
:48:20. > :48:25.drugs de... Um, staying... Illegal. Illegal and not regulated. That
:48:25. > :48:29.drugs de... Um, staying... Illegal. really the worst possible situation
:48:29. > :48:35.you can ever put your children in. that treating drug addicts Costas
:48:35. > :48:40.lot of money. What would make us a lot of money was if we legalised
:48:40. > :48:45.them, sold them in a regulated way, some of the drugs and then taxed
:48:45. > :48:48.them, sold them in a regulated way, from taxing those drugs. That would
:48:48. > :48:51.raise a great deal of money in the way it does with tobacco taxation
:48:51. > :48:58.criminal enterprises that exist and it would also eliminate entirely
:48:58. > :49:17.criminal enterprises that exist possibility for a black market on
:49:17. > :49:23.absurd. Laurie said no politician is decriminalise. I've said it many
:49:23. > :49:30.times, that we should decriminalise importantly we've just heard Nick
:49:30. > :49:35.Clegg say it. That's significant. parliamentary Home Affairs Select
:49:35. > :49:41.Committee where we spent a year looking at drugs policy. We went to
:49:41. > :49:45.Colombia and Portugal. We published a detailed report and it pointed out
:49:45. > :49:50.decriminalisation. In Portugal you don't have more addicts. You have
:49:50. > :50:04.more people in treatment but I would streets. We published this fantastic
:50:04. > :50:09.absurd. When the current laws were passed, in 1971, the idea was we
:50:09. > :50:12.would stop people from using drugs. I'm not going to ask who has used an
:50:12. > :50:16.illegal substance at some point I'm not going to ask who has used an
:50:16. > :50:20.I bet there are some in this room who've done. The current approach
:50:20. > :50:27.doesn't work but it forces things shockingly. Having substances where
:50:28. > :50:34.you have no idea what it is because it has been cut with other things.
:50:35. > :50:42.Zico-active subs tanses. We have no idea whether it is safe. All of
:50:42. > :50:47.these things are dangerous. Heroin, cannabis, ecstasy is dangerous.
:50:47. > :50:51.these things are dangerous. Heroin, so are alcohol and tobacco. To say
:50:51. > :50:59.they are all bad, don't have them, that fails. I will stop there.
:50:59. > :51:05.Oliver? I think Julian's report should have been paid more attention
:51:05. > :51:11.to the at this time contained the Government is there to prevent harm.
:51:11. > :51:26.There is no other purpose. First Government is there to prevent harm.
:51:26. > :51:30.advantages of following Portugal, talking how we do that? If you look
:51:30. > :51:40.their communities it is horrendous. talking how we do that? If you look
:51:40. > :51:46.we can't even keeps drugs out of our we can't even keeps drugs out of our
:51:46. > :51:49.prisoner cells, and I'm not their it we can't even keeps drugs out of our
:51:50. > :51:54.is right to keep people in prison cells. People report fewer problems
:51:54. > :51:59.in the decriminalised world. Police who opposed it at first, last year
:51:59. > :52:04.said it is great, because they can target the organised st year said it
:52:04. > :52:08.is great, because they can target organised gangs. You have to look at
:52:08. > :52:13.the harms but we haven't reduced the harms now. We spend huge amounts of
:52:13. > :52:16.money arresting people and locking them up in a random way. We have to
:52:16. > :52:27.gentleman there. I think if you them up in a random way. We have to
:52:27. > :52:30.decriminalisation of marijuana. them up in a random way. We have to
:52:30. > :52:35.there most people don't smoke it on a regular basis. It is considered a
:52:35. > :52:39.more ma exhur thing to do. You just go to a coffee shop every now and
:52:39. > :52:46.again and have a joint if the same way that you have a pint in a pub in
:52:46. > :52:52.this country. I would find that really comforting if a train driver
:52:52. > :52:56.is the same as drinking alcohol before driving a train. You are
:52:56. > :53:05.is the same as drinking alcohol allowed to do that. Exactly. For a
:53:05. > :53:09.gentleman here. You can criminalise drugs as much as you like but it is
:53:09. > :53:15.not going to stop people from doing them. If you decriminalise them
:53:15. > :53:18.not going to stop people from doing something illegal. That's why a
:53:18. > :53:30.not going to stop people from doing of people do it... Do you still
:53:30. > :53:37.not going to stop people from doing of it. They can't stand the thought
:53:37. > :53:39.a mum. There was a survey done in the Sun which has changed its tune
:53:39. > :53:44.on that. They've found that middle the Sun which has changed its tune
:53:44. > :53:45.on that. They've found that middle aged women, they didn't ask if they
:53:45. > :54:06.children or their children's friends aged women, they didn't ask if they
:54:06. > :54:10.didn't dcht it can last for the aged women, they didn't ask if they
:54:10. > :54:18.of your life, that sanction. The law say you can't, every time. Would
:54:18. > :54:20.there not be a way of reducing the persecution on the drawing taker so
:54:20. > :54:26.the addict received help rather persecution on the drawing taker so
:54:26. > :54:30.prosecution but continuing the prosecution on the people who teal
:54:30. > :54:35.the drugs and the people who produce them, so you are still, it's so
:54:35. > :54:39.criminal but you are providing help rather than punishment to those
:54:39. > :54:39.criminal but you are providing help need the help? That's exactly the
:54:40. > :54:42.Portuguese model but they focus need the help? That's exactly the
:54:42. > :54:44.the high-level deal terse. They need the help? That's exactly the
:54:44. > :54:50.a criminal sanction on international gangs, the cartels and that sort of
:54:50. > :54:54.thing, but users, it is entirely noncriminal. It is all focused on
:54:54. > :55:00.helping people to quit if they are addicts and help with the treatment
:55:00. > :55:05.How many more times are we going to hear the word Portugal. It is an
:55:05. > :55:50.Oliver, are you have won this but overall Junian's won the Power Bar
:55:50. > :55:54.you very much. It is a great thing to have you here. Thank you for
:55:54. > :55:56.you very much. It is a great thing support. We've had some definite
:55:56. > :56:00.disagreements but thank you for being in Cambridge. Stay engaged
:56:00. > :56:02.with politics. Get involved, talk to your MP or candidate. If you are in
:56:02. > :56:15.you like. Thank you Julian. That your MP or candidate. If you are in
:56:15. > :56:28.on November 20th for a special Free hearing more from the leaders of our
:56:28. > :56:35.on November 20th for a special Free we leave you with Amy and her higher
:56:35. > :56:35.on November 20th for a special Free How many studentsed full financial