:00:27. > :00:29.Hello and welcome to the programme. Coming up this week. No
:00:29. > :00:34.satisfaction for the Finucanes, so what are the implications for truth
:00:34. > :00:39.recovery? Why the SDLP leadership race makes the Borgias look like
:00:39. > :00:48.Little House on the Prairie. And should there be a legal minimum
:00:48. > :00:55.If the evidence this week is anything to go by, there'll be no
:00:55. > :00:57.more full-scale inquiries into deaths in the Troubles. Facing down
:00:57. > :01:01.the outrage of the Finucane family, the Government is defending its
:01:01. > :01:04.decision to set up a review by a leading QC of the mountains of
:01:04. > :01:07.papers thrown up by the Stevens and Cory investigations of the murder
:01:07. > :01:14.of Pat Finucane. Inquiries, says the Secretary of State, are not the
:01:14. > :01:18.way to discover the truth. Patrick Corrigan of Amnesty International.
:01:18. > :01:21.One of the main reasons you think there should be inquiries is what
:01:21. > :01:25.you call the credible evidence of collusion and the fact the murder
:01:25. > :01:31.may have taken place with collision but we know that, the government
:01:32. > :01:36.has said that there was collusion. So... They have not much what they
:01:36. > :01:40.could not dispute. After the Stevens inquiry and the Cory
:01:40. > :01:46.inquiry and what has leaked into the public domain. We know there
:01:46. > :01:51.was collusion, but we do not know the extent do that. And only a
:01:51. > :01:56.proper independent and public inquiry can really expose the full
:01:56. > :02:00.extent of that to public scrutiny and help restore her in some
:02:00. > :02:04.measure our confidence in the rule of law and that the Government is
:02:04. > :02:08.interested in up holding that. Secretary of State says no stone
:02:09. > :02:14.will be unturned in coming to the nature of this, he says this will
:02:14. > :02:18.give a full public account? I think if there was genuine intent to
:02:18. > :02:23.publicly expose the full extent of the collision, what went on behind
:02:23. > :02:28.closed doors, who was involved in covering it up, then a public
:02:28. > :02:33.inquiry... Is that not all there in these mountains of paper? No one
:02:33. > :02:42.has seen them but they will be uncovered? He will have full
:02:42. > :02:46.access? No matter how eminent their QC, an inquiry or review of the
:02:46. > :02:49.paperwork is no substitute to a proper public inquiry that can be
:02:49. > :02:55.properly effective and independent and can win the confidence of the
:02:55. > :02:59.family. They and their lawyers will not have a chance to look at the
:02:59. > :03:04.paper work themselves. And to cross-question any witnesses. De
:03:04. > :03:08.Silva will have no legal powers to compel the production of evidence
:03:08. > :03:14.and witnesses, this is toothless and it really will probably turn
:03:14. > :03:20.out to be a waste of taxpayers' money. Mike Nesbitt, one of your
:03:20. > :03:24.colleagues said that the family should let go? I think that any
:03:24. > :03:29.family, including the Finucane family, should have an opportunity
:03:29. > :03:32.to find the truth. It is a journey and the starting point is a loss
:03:32. > :03:36.and the finish line is the point where you feel that you have got
:03:36. > :03:43.some understanding of what happened so I support them in having that
:03:43. > :03:46.opportunity. But what Patrick is saying, the Secretary of State
:03:46. > :03:49.addressed, accepting collusion isn't sufficient in itself and the
:03:49. > :03:54.public its to know the nature of that and that is just like what you
:03:54. > :04:00.said, you need to root out all state agencies? He says a review
:04:00. > :04:05.will not do that. I do not believe that it will not do that. I have
:04:05. > :04:09.faith, Mr de Silva is a war crimes prosecutor and he will have access
:04:09. > :04:14.to absolutely everything. We were told it was going to be at paper
:04:14. > :04:20.review but the Secretary of State says it has opened to Sir Desmond,
:04:20. > :04:27.he is free to meet any individual. He cannot compel them? We were told
:04:27. > :04:33.it was going to be paper but it is more. If Sir Desmond does his job
:04:33. > :04:39.at the level and extent and nature we expect, it welcome out? It must
:04:39. > :04:43.be there? It isn't about his abilities, it is the integrity of
:04:43. > :04:47.the process. International human right slot demands that the victims
:04:47. > :04:51.of this crime are entitled, because of the strong allegations and the
:04:51. > :04:56.knowledge and that there was state collusion, that they are entitled
:04:56. > :05:00.to an effective and impartial investigation that has their
:05:00. > :05:05.corporation and involvement and their participation is specifically
:05:05. > :05:09.excluded from this review and exercise. That right to have no
:05:09. > :05:13.confidence is justified and many people have little confidence in
:05:13. > :05:18.that and it isn't about privileging the family over other victims. They
:05:18. > :05:22.all have the right to truth and justice but in this case, there are
:05:22. > :05:28.very serious concerns about how we uphold the rule of law in this
:05:28. > :05:32.country. We do not accept it is very uneven? Everybody on this
:05:32. > :05:35.journey is on a journey and the Finucane family are not over the
:05:35. > :05:39.finishing line and they don't think this will get them there, but would
:05:39. > :05:43.you expect there are many thousands of families still on the starting
:05:43. > :05:47.line, looking enviously at the family because they know who
:05:47. > :05:51.murdered Pat Finucane, they know there was did collision, they have
:05:51. > :05:59.had an apology and the air getting another �1.5 million spent on an
:05:59. > :06:02.inquiry. There have been over 9152 witness statements and if that was
:06:02. > :06:08.replicated over every Troubles related killing, there would be
:06:08. > :06:15.more than 32 million witness statements. You're trying to draw
:06:15. > :06:19.some equivalence but the grief felt by every family in our conflict is
:06:19. > :06:24.the same but there are more serious issues at stake that are bigger
:06:24. > :06:28.than the family. They concern the integrity of the rule of law in
:06:28. > :06:34.this country. That is why it we demand and need a public inquiry to
:06:34. > :06:38.expose that. It is different when the state is involved? The state
:06:38. > :06:41.was always involved, Martin McGuinness wants to be the state in
:06:41. > :06:46.the Irish Republic, he is number two in the government in this
:06:46. > :06:50.country. Word do you draw that line? We need to ask ourselves a
:06:50. > :06:55.fundamental question. Why are we doing this? Dealing with the past
:06:55. > :07:02.for the sake of the individuals most impacted? Or for the sake of a
:07:02. > :07:07.lulling society to move forward? You don't accept parliamentary
:07:07. > :07:10.bodies? I am a Unionist. Unlike comfortable during the Prime
:07:10. > :07:15.Minister say there was collusion in the murder of a Northern Ireland
:07:15. > :07:21.citizen? Of course that. But we must go on and find out the scope
:07:21. > :07:24.and nature of that. I am satisfied that Mr de Silva deserves the
:07:24. > :07:30.opportunity to do this and I am mindful of the hundreds of
:07:30. > :07:36.thousands of families who say, what about me? We deal in the dead but
:07:36. > :07:39.not in the living injured. There could have been an inquiry under
:07:39. > :07:42.the 2005 Act and that then it can family turned it down because they
:07:42. > :07:46.felt there was a loophole which let the Government conceal information
:07:46. > :07:51.but that was an offer that they turned down. Now they have ended up
:07:51. > :07:55.with much less than that. Was that a mistake? I think the government
:07:55. > :08:02.of the time had no choice but to offer a public inquiry. Just as
:08:02. > :08:05.Cory's said that nothing less would suffice. The Government then
:08:05. > :08:09.instructed the Inquiries Act to give them ministerial discretion
:08:09. > :08:15.and to interfere in the evidence provided. The family were
:08:15. > :08:19.absolutely right to object to that. And we support them in that. But
:08:19. > :08:23.what we understand is that over the last year, in discussions between
:08:23. > :08:28.the Secretary of State and his officials and the lawyers, as a
:08:28. > :08:33.mission was being formulated and it was an inquiry, in the shape of the
:08:33. > :08:37.inquiry, but along the lines of the Baha Mousa inquiry, were the
:08:37. > :08:41.Government made a commitment not to exercise his powers to interfere
:08:41. > :08:44.and withhold evidence. That could have been the makings of a deal and
:08:44. > :08:49.that is what the family were expected to be offered at Downing
:08:49. > :08:53.Street. To have that rejected an this paper exercise offered is an
:08:53. > :08:58.insult. The family accused David Cameron of deliberate cruelty and
:08:58. > :09:03.arrogance. This calling them over and they clearly expected something
:09:03. > :09:07.more than they got. Do you accept that? I was not on the inside of
:09:07. > :09:13.that but I would say that having watched the out workings of the
:09:13. > :09:16.Saville Report, hearing the Prime Minister being applauded in the
:09:16. > :09:21.Guildhall Square in Londonderry by families of the Bloody Sunday
:09:21. > :09:26.victims, that was quite something. Incredible. I would be more
:09:26. > :09:30.comfortable with that reaction than what I saw... That was after a
:09:30. > :09:35.full-scale inquiry. I am talking about the out working spot public
:09:35. > :09:41.inquiries, do they work? The first was Widgery. If that word, there
:09:41. > :09:47.would have been no Saville Inquiry. And there is a real danger that the
:09:47. > :09:50.silver will become the Widgery of the 21st century. I am saying that
:09:50. > :09:57.that is something he should be concerned about and we should all
:09:57. > :10:01.be. And the out workings of the Saville Inquiry, the apology and
:10:01. > :10:07.the acknowledgement of the grief, that was after a proper public
:10:07. > :10:15.inquiry. Most people say it did not tell us much more than what we
:10:15. > :10:19.knew! The Secretary of State said they could not even find out who
:10:19. > :10:23.bought guns into the jail in the Billy Wright Inquiry. But every
:10:23. > :10:27.criminal investigation by the police or every public inquiry is
:10:27. > :10:32.constructed under the Inquiries Act or other legislation and that will
:10:32. > :10:36.not necessarily find all the truth and deliver all that just as that
:10:36. > :10:40.everybody wants. But they are the best means possible and we have
:10:40. > :10:43.systems in place for criminal investigations and when the state
:10:44. > :10:51.itself is involved potentially in the carrying out of these crimes,
:10:51. > :10:55.we need a special measure and that is why we have public inquiries.
:10:55. > :10:59.have a few public inquiries into some high-profile killings and you
:10:59. > :11:04.would accept that most victims do not fall into that category and
:11:04. > :11:09.they do look enviously. That week - - we have the Police Ombudsman, we
:11:09. > :11:13.did have that doing retrospective work and that as up to a very
:11:13. > :11:17.incomplete set of processes which are imperfect. What is happening is
:11:17. > :11:21.that we are sleepwalking into rewriting history to the point
:11:21. > :11:24.where it was all was the state and the agents of the state under
:11:24. > :11:29.investigation and they come out of the wash less than white. We cannot
:11:29. > :11:34.agree what happened, we cannot agree why it happened or even the
:11:34. > :11:41.language we use to describe it. Why are we doing all this? Rewriting
:11:41. > :11:45.history? Was it the Troubles, conflict, was it a war? Putting a
:11:45. > :11:51.bomb on a school bus in Lisnaskea was a war crime. Why not send his
:11:51. > :11:56.people to the Hague? We would be very supportive of a comprehensive
:11:56. > :12:01.process to try to address all of the legacies of our past rather
:12:01. > :12:05.than this unsatisfactory piecemeal approach. We agree with you. We see
:12:05. > :12:11.no public or political appetite for that from the government or from
:12:11. > :12:16.local parties and the protagonists in the Troubles. That is what we
:12:16. > :12:19.ultimately will need as a society to settle our view of the past but
:12:19. > :12:23.meanwhile, we also have outstanding questions about the role of the
:12:23. > :12:32.state in that conflict and sadly, we still need those inquiries to
:12:32. > :12:35.expose that. Gentlemen, thank you both very much. The news that
:12:35. > :12:39.Einstein's theory of time travel may be wrong is a big blow, for it
:12:39. > :12:42.means that we may never reach that point at which we could hurtle
:12:42. > :12:46.forward and find out if we ever get what passes for normal politics
:12:46. > :12:49.here. So, in our present Groundhog Day timezone, we will have to make
:12:49. > :12:52.do with the flat-pack IKEA model. A sort of self-assembly Assembly. OK,
:12:52. > :12:55.we have most of the thickest planks and an awful lot of nuts to spare,
:12:55. > :12:58.but nobody seems to have included the instructions, or Programme for
:12:58. > :13:01.Government to give it its proper name. 160 days after the election
:13:02. > :13:04.and we still don't have the programme. Robinson and McGuinness
:13:05. > :13:08.handed out something a couple of weeks ago but didn't discuss it
:13:08. > :13:10.with any of the other parties. It will be farmed out for consultation
:13:11. > :13:13.for a few months, returned to sender, jiggered about with and
:13:13. > :13:18.shelved because someone will have spotted an election riding over the
:13:18. > :13:22.hill. Which means that ministers will just get on with their own
:13:22. > :13:25.thing. Each of them babbling on about building a new future for all
:13:26. > :13:29.of us, albeit not bothering to talk to us, let alone each other. The
:13:29. > :13:32.French have a name for this self- serving delusion - deja moo, which,
:13:32. > :13:34.loosely translated, means the weird feeling that you have heard all of
:13:34. > :13:37.this bull before. The Health Minister, operating in his own
:13:37. > :13:40.little silo, has decided that free prescriptions will no longer be
:13:40. > :13:43.available at Poots the chemist. Which is pretty depressing news for
:13:44. > :13:46.those of us really sick of the type of government we have. And I'm not
:13:46. > :13:50.a hypochondriac, either. Indeed, hypochondria is the one thing I
:13:51. > :13:53.don't have. The one piece of good news is the appointment of a
:13:53. > :13:57.Commissioner for Older People who wants to make sure that their
:13:57. > :14:00.voices and views are heard at the very heart of government. Hurrah!
:14:00. > :14:02.Most of the pensioners I know make Margaret Thatcher sound like Mother
:14:02. > :14:06.Theresa. They don't take nonsense and they don't like delays. They
:14:06. > :14:10.couldn't be any worse than what we have now. Actually, it might be a
:14:10. > :14:13.good idea if the 61 year-old Martin McGuinness had a quick chat with
:14:13. > :14:16.the new commissioner, for he seems to be having an awful lot of senior
:14:16. > :14:19.moments since he decided to enter the race for the Irish Presidency.
:14:19. > :14:23.It's fair enough to forget where you put your car keys or glasses,
:14:23. > :14:26.for that happens to most of us as we get older. But it's quite a
:14:26. > :14:28.different matter when you can't even remember if you were a
:14:28. > :14:32.terrorist between 1970 and 1998. Meanwhile, the SDLP leadership race
:14:32. > :14:34.has all of the excitement of porridge sliding down a wall.
:14:34. > :14:38.Alasdair wants revenge for losing last time. Patsy wants revenge
:14:38. > :14:42.because he thought he should have been in the Executive. Alex wants
:14:42. > :14:45.to keep the job he has, but knows that he has to win and then appoint
:14:45. > :14:48.himself back to it. Conall carries the can for securing Margaret's
:14:48. > :14:51.victory and wants to protect himself from the wrath of any new
:14:51. > :14:55.leader. Dear Lord, this makes the Borgia family look like the Little
:14:55. > :14:58.House on the Prairie. Let's be honest. Even if Dr Frankenstein was
:14:58. > :15:01.in the contest and won, it still wouldn't be possible to pump the
:15:01. > :15:04.SDLP with enough electricity to stay alive. So, 13 years from the
:15:04. > :15:07.election of the first Assembly and six months into the fourth, it
:15:07. > :15:11.looks pretty much like business as usual up on the hill. Einstein may
:15:11. > :15:20.yet be wrong about time travel. But the boffins in the Assembly clearly
:15:20. > :15:22.seem to have discovered the formula The thoughts of Alex Kane. Now we
:15:22. > :15:25.return to our occasional series introducing some of the new
:15:25. > :15:35.generation of MLAs. Julia Paul meets an Alliance member who
:15:35. > :15:36.
:15:36. > :15:43.considers herself a political outsider.
:15:43. > :15:49.I have lived in east Belfast all my life not far from where I am now. I
:15:49. > :15:55.did go to Scotland to university for four years in Aberdeen and have
:15:55. > :16:02.worked in London for two years but then I came home in 2000. I am
:16:02. > :16:06.married to Jonathan and I have two children, Emma who is six and
:16:06. > :16:11.Jessica who is three. Will the Minister confirm he will make sure
:16:11. > :16:17.that changes brought about... I never imagined I would be involved
:16:17. > :16:22.in politics. I was involved with Naomi Long and she came to ask me
:16:22. > :16:28.if I would consider getting involved and running for council. I
:16:28. > :16:33.decided that I would get involved and was elected to Castlereagh
:16:33. > :16:37.council into a 1005. The six years I spent in Castlereagh made me
:16:37. > :16:43.realise that I could make a difference. There are a lot of
:16:43. > :16:47.people around who are career politicians and I think it is the
:16:47. > :16:53.frustration of that that has caused me to stay on and get involved
:16:53. > :16:57.further. I think we need a balance in Stormont of people who have
:16:57. > :17:02.studied the political game and those who bring skills and
:17:03. > :17:08.experience from outside. When I went to secondary school I went
:17:08. > :17:12.across town to Methody. It was not an integrated school but it was an
:17:12. > :17:17.integrated society within that school. There were people there
:17:17. > :17:22.from all different cultures. And throughout school I could say aye
:17:22. > :17:27.was never especially into politics. But my friends tell me now that I
:17:27. > :17:34.was the person who stood up and was elected to chair a committee or
:17:34. > :17:39.captain at team, someone who was a friend to people from all different
:17:40. > :17:46.backgrounds. When I was approached by Naomi Long the alliance was the
:17:46. > :17:52.only the natural home for me. It is the party that is happy to be
:17:52. > :17:57.involved with the government in Dublin and in London but it is an
:17:57. > :18:04.Northern Irish party, a party that is there to serve the people of
:18:05. > :18:10.Northern Ireland. One of the big things I have been working on has
:18:10. > :18:15.been nursery school provision. East Belfast was hit especially hard.
:18:15. > :18:20.And having two young children going through the system, I am very close
:18:20. > :18:25.to it. People come to me at the school gate and tell me the things
:18:25. > :18:31.that are important. Women find it difficult to get involved in
:18:31. > :18:38.politics, it is a bit of a man's world. And you have to try to crack
:18:38. > :18:45.that which would need an influx of people. It is difficult as a mother,
:18:45. > :18:50.I will admit. There are not fixed hours and it is difficult to work
:18:50. > :18:55.around childcare. I'm fortunate that my husband works from home. In
:18:55. > :19:00.the next four years what I would like to do is push the Shared
:19:00. > :19:05.Future agenda further. A lot of politicians are paying lip-service
:19:06. > :19:10.to the Shared Future but what they really mean is a shared out future.
:19:10. > :19:15.I would like to bring forward ideas that people will respect and take
:19:15. > :19:20.up so that we really deliver things for the right reasons and not with
:19:20. > :19:22.any orange or green agenda at around them.
:19:22. > :19:24.The Unison strike this month that led to thousands of hospital
:19:24. > :19:28.appointments being cancelled was brought about by a ballot to which
:19:28. > :19:31.only 18 percent of the union's members responded. Although some 80
:19:31. > :19:35.percent of that number supported the strike. Is this just democracy
:19:35. > :19:42.in action, or the manipulation of the many by the few? Let's hear the
:19:42. > :19:48.views of two commentators, Eamonn McCann and Newton Emerson.
:19:48. > :19:52.We do not know what the 80% of people who did not vote got about
:19:52. > :19:58.the strike. Is it accepted, something that we should be proud
:19:58. > :20:08.of, that strikes can be held on such a low level of support? Well a
:20:08. > :20:09.
:20:09. > :20:14.huge proportion of those 80% did come out and join the strike. And
:20:14. > :20:19.that is what it is about - how many people turn out to support it. The
:20:20. > :20:26.trade unions are based upon collective action, not about
:20:27. > :20:32.sitting at home marking ballots. And Unison for example held more
:20:32. > :20:35.than 150 meetings before that strike across the North. Some of
:20:35. > :20:44.those were the biggest they had ever known and there were more
:20:44. > :20:49.people at those meetings than actually turned out to vote. You
:20:49. > :20:55.see this phenomenon over and over again. That strike was massively
:20:55. > :21:01.supported by the members of the Union walking out of work. And that
:21:01. > :21:06.is an indication of the support than a ballot paper. So the figures
:21:06. > :21:11.are not important? I have to disagree that the strike was
:21:11. > :21:15.massively supported. In many ways a strike ballot is a red herring
:21:15. > :21:22.because if there's not much support for the ballot there will not be
:21:22. > :21:28.much support for the strike either. If you have been in a union which
:21:28. > :21:32.you will know that you have a big envelope full of election material
:21:32. > :21:37.and most people just throw it in the bin. That is how we have a
:21:37. > :21:41.small number of people with an agenda that is not well understood,
:21:41. > :21:48.taking control of these largely public-sector unions which means
:21:48. > :21:52.they have a control over 40% of the workforce,. These are people with
:21:52. > :21:58.potentially very important powers and almost no one knows what their
:21:58. > :22:02.platform is or even that they exist. That invites the comment, where is
:22:02. > :22:07.the democratic mandate for the people who are opposing these
:22:07. > :22:12.things? Opposing the pension scheme that means that people will work
:22:12. > :22:18.longer and receive less. More than 60% of the population voted in the
:22:18. > :22:23.general election. Not any of them voted for this pensions package.
:22:23. > :22:27.That was not in the election manifesto of either of the
:22:27. > :22:37.coalition parties. There's no mandate whatsoever for what has
:22:37. > :22:45.
:22:45. > :22:49.been Pat -- been opposed on the public sector workers. You have to
:22:49. > :22:55.see this in the bigger context of the public sector strike on 30th
:22:55. > :23:00.November. You will see then what level of support there is and it is
:23:00. > :23:04.going to be huge. People take part in his strikes not necessarily
:23:04. > :23:08.because they support it, but because they support their union.
:23:08. > :23:14.We could argue about how many people actually came out, but it
:23:14. > :23:18.does not actually show full support for action. It would be better
:23:18. > :23:28.perhaps it the union were be -- would be able to say to the face of
:23:28. > :23:30.
:23:30. > :23:40.for example the Health Minister, that this was not supported? Whelp
:23:40. > :23:41.
:23:41. > :23:45.half of the constituents of Edwin Poots voted against him. But the
:23:45. > :23:50.test of whether a strike is supported will be made on the day
:23:50. > :24:00.of the strike. I have no doubt that on 30th November, we will see the
:24:00. > :24:03.biggest industrial action since 1926 in Britain. And the outcome of
:24:03. > :24:09.this battle will shape the political terrain across Britain
:24:09. > :24:14.for the next foreseeable future. It is tremendously important and what
:24:15. > :24:20.matters is what is going to happen on the day. I urge all union
:24:20. > :24:24.members to vote for stock but they do not. If you would majority
:24:24. > :24:33.support for your politicians then presumably the same applies to the
:24:33. > :24:37.unions. There are very real political issues and battles ahead
:24:37. > :24:43.and I would like to seek more attention paid to the people
:24:43. > :24:50.reading this kind of action. For example the leadership of NIPSA a
:24:50. > :24:54.few years ago switch from a more moderate union and management co-
:24:54. > :24:58.operative to a group managed by the Socialist Party of Northern Ireland.
:24:58. > :25:07.A perfectly legitimate party, but almost no one knows that that party
:25:07. > :25:12.is now in charge of our main civil service union. These people are now
:25:12. > :25:17.negotiating with our largest block of public sector employees. On
:25:17. > :25:25.difficult decisions that have to be made. I do not realise -- I do not
:25:25. > :25:29.think that even their own members realised how intransigent they are.
:25:29. > :25:34.Well that is implying that they are stupid and ignorant and do not
:25:34. > :25:43.realise what is going on. The idea of the Socialist party controlling
:25:43. > :25:46.the union is laughable. It is true across unions and other
:25:46. > :25:52.organisations that the more committed people are to a
:25:52. > :25:58.particular organisation... perhaps the majority of union
:25:58. > :26:03.members might like more thought put into things. Could you fix this by
:26:03. > :26:08.having some kind of Lord saying that they had to be 50%
:26:08. > :26:15.participation in whatever ballot it was. Would that be of any use?
:26:15. > :26:21.Absolutely not. This idea of ballots of individual members,
:26:21. > :26:25.meaning that people vote in their homes. There is an ideological
:26:25. > :26:33.reason for the introduction of that by the Thatcherites in the 19
:26:33. > :26:38.eighties. And these laws now reside in the Executive. The idea was to
:26:38. > :26:46.get away from the idea of the collective. Trade unions are
:26:46. > :26:50.collective organisations. It makes sense then, if we had workplace
:26:50. > :26:55.ballots rather than individual ballots and people would come along
:26:55. > :27:00.to vote freely, and discuss the issues, then you would get a much
:27:00. > :27:06.higher turnout and a better reflection. Then I believe you
:27:06. > :27:11.would get a more militant result if you did that. What do you think
:27:11. > :27:19.about compulsory minimum? I'm not generally in favour of it. I think
:27:19. > :27:26.people should do these things of their own volition. We have seen
:27:26. > :27:30.Executive ministers in the past few weeks simply ignore union members.
:27:30. > :27:34.They decide that these people are unreasonable and cannot be dealt
:27:35. > :27:39.with and can also be safely ignored. If the union executives had a
:27:39. > :27:45.bigger support base behind them, perhaps their unions would be taken
:27:45. > :27:48.more seriously. Wait until November 30th when there is a United strike
:27:49. > :27:54.right across the public service. Then you will see there is
:27:54. > :27:58.something significant happening. One thing that is not in doubt is
:27:58. > :28:02.people are raging mad at being asked to shoulder the burden for
:28:02. > :28:05.this economic crisis. And that's where we must leave it
:28:05. > :28:15.this time round. We'll do it again next week at the usual times, I
:28:15. > :28:24.
:28:24. > :28:31.hope you'll join me. Goodbye. What kept you? Don't ask. Someone
:28:31. > :28:38.in Tipperary still a part of the One True Cross. I think it was Liam
:28:38. > :28:47.Fox asking for help to save his political career. Most married men
:28:47. > :28:52.would prefer to go on holiday with a friend instead of their wife!