:00:10. > :00:18.Hello and welcome to the programme. I am standing in for Null Thomson,
:00:18. > :00:21.who is on holiday. Coming up: Will it be a two way or a three-way
:00:21. > :00:25.contest for the Ulster Unionist leadership, and how much of a
:00:25. > :00:28.poisoned chalice is it? As commemorations get under way,
:00:28. > :00:34.can we read a history of Aids toxic legacy?
:00:34. > :00:37.And are the SDLP in or out of the Executive, when they don't back its
:00:37. > :00:41.programme for government? The latest candidate for the Ulster
:00:41. > :00:46.Unionist leadership is not bothered about it being the Ides of March
:00:46. > :00:49.today. Mike Nesbitt has become the second runner to declare after John
:00:49. > :00:53.McAllister earlier in the week, with Danny Kennedy expected to
:00:53. > :00:57.throw his hat into the ring tomorrow. Can anybody arrest the
:00:57. > :01:02.party's steady decline? I am joined by seasoned observers are Martina
:01:02. > :01:06.Purdy and Liam Clarke. We did ask the party candidates to join us but
:01:06. > :01:12.the party chief said not until after the nominations close. Are we
:01:12. > :01:16.seeing a party trying to exert more control after reason public spats?
:01:16. > :01:21.The party is very conscious of the damaging image it has of a party
:01:21. > :01:25.continually in crisis and biting. Ironically, the Ulster Unionists
:01:25. > :01:29.were able to make peace with the nationalists and the SDLP but they
:01:29. > :01:32.never made peace with each other. The feuds that other parties have
:01:32. > :01:38.behind closed doors, they have in the open. They are trying to
:01:38. > :01:43.stabilise the party because it can be very damaging. It is damage
:01:43. > :01:47.limitation right now. It is going to be a short campaign but it is
:01:47. > :01:52.off to a faltering start with John McCallister declaring quickly. We
:01:52. > :01:56.hope to hear from Danny Kennedy. There had been negotiations or
:01:56. > :02:01.contact, at least, between Danny Kennedy and Mike Nesbitt about
:02:01. > :02:08.forming some kind of dream ticket where Mike would lead the party and
:02:08. > :02:14.give it its tone and re- invigorate be the minister and take the lead
:02:14. > :02:17.in the assembly. I understand that Mr Kennedy turned that down but I
:02:17. > :02:22.think there is another meeting this evening, so you never know - there
:02:22. > :02:26.may well be an announcement before the morning, or there is a meeting
:02:26. > :02:33.on Saturday or all the candidates who have declared to decide how the
:02:33. > :02:37.campaign will be run. That is another opportunity. On what
:02:37. > :02:40.grounds do you understand he turned the offer us down? And my
:02:40. > :02:45.understanding is that he felt it was best for the leader to be
:02:46. > :02:53.Minister, as well, because the UUP had been criticised in recent polls
:02:53. > :02:56.not to be thought of as having much authority. He thought that you
:02:56. > :03:02.needed to have the full authority of a minister and a leader to have
:03:02. > :03:06.the negotiations that are going on until the end of the deer. There
:03:06. > :03:10.has got to be some sharing out if there is a deal. What does it tell
:03:11. > :03:15.us, Martina? We have Mike Nesbitt and Danny Kennedy out of the same
:03:15. > :03:21.stable and they can't agree a way forward. I think it damages Danny
:03:21. > :03:25.Kennedy that he has not come out and nailed his colours. Almost
:03:25. > :03:28.immediately, speculation began whether he was serious and he got a
:03:28. > :03:33.bit sharper with me on the phone the other day when I asked about
:03:33. > :03:39.the rumour and I asked when he was coming out. He said, "when I am
:03:39. > :03:43.good and ready"". The damage done when you are seen to hesitate means
:03:43. > :03:48.that people think that you don't want it. It is not helping his case
:03:48. > :03:53.and it has not been helped by the fact that his assembly private
:03:53. > :03:58.secretary has come out for Mike Nesbitt. Pretty embarrassing. But
:03:58. > :04:02.let's look at the three candidates as we know them. Ulster Unionist
:04:02. > :04:06.membership has quite a decision on its hands, doesn't it? There are
:04:06. > :04:11.three diverse characters. The safe pair of hands, some might argue, in
:04:11. > :04:15.Danny Kennedy, Liberal in John McAllister, and the newcomer to the
:04:15. > :04:21.party in Mike Nesbitt. They do really have a clear choice and it
:04:21. > :04:24.has not always been so clear in previous contests. John McAllister
:04:24. > :04:28.is a most radical alternative and he would take them into opposition
:04:28. > :04:37.because that is the only place you can rebuild your strength after
:04:37. > :04:42.taking a hammering. Danny Kennedy has stuck close to the DUP and he
:04:42. > :04:48.is a team player in the executive. He said to me today that he did not
:04:48. > :04:52.want to be the last leader of the UUP. But he is seen as being closer
:04:52. > :04:56.to that camp. Mike Nesbitt is coming in as a technical manager to
:04:56. > :05:01.improve their image. How well do you think Danny Kennedy's close
:05:01. > :05:11.association with the DUP will play with the electric? It is always
:05:11. > :05:15.
:05:15. > :05:19.said that Unionist electors want unity. -- with the electorate.
:05:19. > :05:24.People who vote for the UUP, in many cases, vote for them because
:05:24. > :05:30.they are not the DUP. It is not popular in areas like Fermanagh
:05:30. > :05:37.where there is a preponderance of membership but a lot of bad blood
:05:37. > :05:45.for electoral reasons. That seems to be where Mike Nesbitt is
:05:45. > :05:55.focusing. Pulling into that area at that is such a strong hold. This is
:05:55. > :05:57.
:05:57. > :06:01.any U-turn now, -- a new to her much. The mythology around the
:06:01. > :06:05.manor has sprung up that it was the powerhouse and if you can win
:06:05. > :06:08.Fermanagh, you will win the leadership. I am assured that that
:06:08. > :06:12.is merely a myth. Fermanagh is important but Tom Elliott could
:06:12. > :06:15.have won the leadership last time without Fermanagh. People have been
:06:15. > :06:21.watching this leadership for a couple of months now and have seen
:06:21. > :06:26.Mike Nesbitt hoarding Fermanagh. It is one member, one vote and the
:06:26. > :06:30.fact that Fermanagh is in the race, if you like a top that they might
:06:30. > :06:36.just stay at home. How much of a fight has he got on his hands? We
:06:36. > :06:39.often think of Fermanagh as the traditional order UUP membership
:06:39. > :06:44.collection. Would they not see Mike Nesbitt as the antithesis of all
:06:44. > :06:48.that - the city slicker, the new boy? I think they will and he has a
:06:48. > :06:54.charm offensive on his hands. He is totally different from any leader
:06:54. > :06:58.they have ever done for. He is an unknown quantity because he is
:06:58. > :07:02.known as a media presenter. But what does he stand for politically?
:07:02. > :07:07.One of the people I spoke to this week in barricaded's camp was quite
:07:07. > :07:13.disparaging about Mike Nesbitt. You can have a baby in nine months but
:07:13. > :07:21.you can't necessarily Electa leader, they say. -- in that Danny
:07:21. > :07:24.Kennedy's camp. There were comments saying that journalists sometimes
:07:24. > :07:28.crash and burn when they enter politics but I would point out that
:07:28. > :07:33.Winston Churchill was a war correspondent. Turning to the theme
:07:33. > :07:39.of the cultural vote and the farming community. John McAllister
:07:39. > :07:45.- what do you reckon to his chances? He has only the support of
:07:45. > :07:49.one MLA besides himself and that is Basil McRae. It is not a good place
:07:49. > :07:55.to start, with just one of your colleagues are backing you
:07:55. > :08:00.wholeheartedly. But he does present a good case and I think there is an
:08:00. > :08:09.appetite for opposition... Even without the structures, the
:08:09. > :08:12.mechanics to make it happen? think there is some appetite for it,
:08:12. > :08:17.because when you want committee chairmanships and things you just
:08:18. > :08:20.would not have a minister. John McAllister - you could not say he
:08:20. > :08:26.is a favourite but he is a very clear choice. He has the advantage
:08:26. > :08:30.of everybody many what he stands for. The other two with a combined,
:08:30. > :08:39.that would help get all the MLAs behind it and that would be a very
:08:39. > :08:45.powerful ticket. I am going to ask an awful thing - call it for us.
:08:45. > :08:49.think before this week I was saying Danny Kennedy, but it is his to
:08:49. > :08:54.lose because he is the unknown quantity. He has been in the party
:08:54. > :08:59.for so long - they know what they are getting, he has experience and
:08:59. > :09:03.he is everybody's friend. But I think the fact that he has held
:09:03. > :09:09.back might damage him. But calling it depends how many are in the race.
:09:09. > :09:17.If it is a two-horse race, it is easier. A three-horse race is
:09:17. > :09:22.harder to call but I would not write tough job altogether. He is
:09:22. > :09:28.quite conservative in many ways. -- would not write to John off
:09:28. > :09:37.altogether. He can be very charming. He goes down well in farming
:09:37. > :09:43.circles. Liam? I would have said Danny Kennedy a few days ago. It is
:09:44. > :09:53.now starting to look like a Mike Nesbitt now. You see the peers and
:09:54. > :10:02.
:10:02. > :10:05.MLAs coming out in favour of him. A couple of weeks ago Sinn Fein's
:10:05. > :10:08.Declan Kearney penned a piece about the need for old enemies to put the
:10:08. > :10:10.past behind them and work together for a better, brighter future.
:10:10. > :10:13.Progress, he argued, is only possible with authentic
:10:13. > :10:16.reconciliation. What puzzled me, though, was how he knew - before
:10:16. > :10:19.the rest of us - that another UUP leadership contest was around the
:10:19. > :10:23.corner! I say "another" because it was just five minutes ago that Tom
:10:23. > :10:26.and Basil were wrestling in jelly in search of the Holy Grail that is
:10:26. > :10:29.the Ulster Unionists' recovery plan. Yet the trouble with the UUP is
:10:29. > :10:31.that it doesn't really want leaders who make decisions. All they want
:10:31. > :10:34.them to do is some gentle management and plodding along. They
:10:34. > :10:38.want the leader to be like the slightly deaf, slightly doddery old
:10:38. > :10:40.uncle who sits at the head of the table during family gatherings:
:10:40. > :10:43.mostly smiling, generally bewildered and occasionally
:10:43. > :10:46.breaking wind. But they don't want him coming up with ideas - bearing
:10:47. > :10:49.in mind the sort of trouble they got into with O'Neill, Faulkner and
:10:50. > :10:53.Trimble. The ongoing problem, of course, is that the UUP is still
:10:53. > :10:56.not a political party. You can have all the rules you like, but rules
:10:56. > :10:58.only work when you are dealing with an organisation which agrees on
:10:58. > :11:02.most things and accepts the concept of collective responsibility and
:11:02. > :11:04.loyalty. So a leadership contest is a bit like watching a group of
:11:04. > :11:07.five-year-olds pinning the tail to the donkey: the only difference
:11:08. > :11:17.being that the kids will eventually get the hang of things and then
:11:18. > :11:21.
:11:21. > :11:24.grow up. In some early Star Trek adventures Captain Kirk would
:11:24. > :11:27.return to a pivotal moment in history to see if events could be
:11:27. > :11:29.changed. And in this latest episode of the UUP's soap opera, three
:11:29. > :11:32.would-be captains have found themselves on board the Titanic.
:11:32. > :11:35.Danny doesn't want to rock the boat at all, happily ignoring the
:11:35. > :11:39.distress signals as the band plays a funeral march. One gets the
:11:39. > :11:44.feeling he has been strapped in place, tied to the wheel by a group
:11:45. > :11:48.of officers in grey suits. John wants to turn it around, and boldly
:11:48. > :11:51.go to what he hopes will be a promised port of warmer waters and
:11:51. > :11:55.sunnier climes - albeit with fewer crew on board. Mike wants to steer
:11:55. > :11:58.a course between the two - which is a bit like strapping an electric
:11:58. > :12:01.blanket to the hull when you see the first iceberg. McCallister's is
:12:01. > :12:04.the most daring of the options. The UUP has nothing to show for its
:12:04. > :12:07.presence in the Executive. It's locked in a loveless, lifeless
:12:07. > :12:10.marriage, kidding itself that it has influence and respect - when it
:12:10. > :12:13.quite clearly doesn't have either. He wants a clean break and his own
:12:13. > :12:15.house. Yep, it's a high risk strategy, but it's a darn sight
:12:16. > :12:18.more sensible than the present option of remaining like mushrooms
:12:19. > :12:22.in the Executive cupboard: Kept in the dark about most decisions while
:12:22. > :12:25.still being covered in poop when things go wrong! No leader of the
:12:25. > :12:28.UUP - particularly since 1972 - has ever actually outlined the party's
:12:28. > :12:30.role, relevance or purpose. It has just drifted into one iceberg after
:12:31. > :12:33.another while passengers fall over the side or scramble into life
:12:34. > :12:36.boats. The UUP has to stop reflecting on the past and begin
:12:36. > :12:40.focussing on a new, genuinely bold direction. The same-old same-old
:12:40. > :12:43.will get it nowhere. A fudge will get it nowhere. It has to face the
:12:43. > :12:46.fact that it is no longer the natural party of government. If it
:12:46. > :12:50.doesn't get its act together on March 31 then soon it won't even
:12:50. > :12:55.have enough MLAs to form a credible Opposition - let alone live long
:12:55. > :12:58.The thoughts of Alex Kane. This week David Cameron and Enda Kenny
:12:58. > :13:01.said the centenary commemorations of key events in the history of
:13:01. > :13:04.these islands now offered a chance to look back in a spirit of respect,
:13:04. > :13:08.inclusiveness and reconciliation. And with that in mind, the Irish
:13:08. > :13:18.government has set up a panel of historians to see how that can be
:13:18. > :13:29.
:13:29. > :13:38.Belfast City Hall has seen busier days. Its pan -- it's been the main
:13:38. > :13:42.focus since it was built more than 100 years ago. In 2012, -- 1912,
:13:43. > :13:50.thousands of Unionists came here to support Lord Carson and to show
:13:50. > :13:55.their vehement opposition to home role. They pledged an assigned
:13:55. > :14:00.covenant to use all necessary means in their struggle. The table the
:14:00. > :14:07.Unionist leaders used is still in City Hall. Edward Carson and his
:14:07. > :14:15.followers who signed the Ulster Covenant by implicitly threatening
:14:15. > :14:20.violence to deny a home rule, helped to define the physical force
:14:20. > :14:27.tradition in Irish politics. Parliamentary democracy today is
:14:27. > :14:36.very different from them. Women now have the vote and there are no
:14:36. > :14:42.property owning allocations. Events that eventually led to the demise
:14:42. > :14:46.of the Home Rule Party and to partition, after General Sir John
:14:46. > :14:52.Maxwell crossed the 1916 rising. John Maxwell, who put down the
:14:52. > :14:58.rebellion, became quite a student of Irish history. He said there was
:14:58. > :15:03.latitude given to the Unionists that led to 1916, and that the
:15:03. > :15:08.public had swung to a belief that more had been cut from 1916 in one
:15:08. > :15:17.week that Mr Redmond had been able to achieve in a lifetime. But after
:15:17. > :15:22.all that delirium subsided, people want jobs, they want children
:15:22. > :15:27.educated. Naturally invade voted for that. The delirium of
:15:27. > :15:30.revolution also give rise to a mini Cold War. Ian Paisley was not the
:15:30. > :15:35.first Unionist to a polls at following of relations with the
:15:35. > :15:40.Republic. There was still plenty of mileage in no surrender and Brits
:15:40. > :15:48.out. 50 years after the rising, Nelson's Column was blown up in
:15:48. > :15:52.Dublin. The man charged by the Irish Government with chairing a
:15:52. > :16:00.committee on centenaries says there are lessons to be learnt have a
:16:00. > :16:05.century on. 1966 is a very good Template of what to avoid. 1966 was
:16:05. > :16:11.simplistic, romantic, triumphalist, it produced only one version of
:16:11. > :16:17.history. It all came in a sense to the inevitability of the rising. It
:16:17. > :16:21.was extremely on historical. GPO in Dublin, the centre of the
:16:21. > :16:25.rising, has long since returned to be in a poll stoppers. In the
:16:25. > :16:31.intervening years, especially during the Troubles, history was
:16:31. > :16:36.used as a weapon in the ideological battle by those on different sides,
:16:36. > :16:40.traditional bursars revisionist. The past all too often in Prague --
:16:40. > :16:44.interpreted through the prism of what was the present. Another
:16:44. > :16:51.historian on the Irish Government committee says are myths and
:16:51. > :16:56.misunderstandings must be challenged. Some people see a him
:16:56. > :17:02.as a great patriot. Others see him as the progenitor of the men of
:17:02. > :17:08.1916. There is a sense that car cent United the Fenian flame of
:17:08. > :17:11.rebellion. -- Carson. Last year's royal visit to the Republic held to
:17:11. > :17:17.challenge other versions of history. The Queen and President
:17:17. > :17:21.acknowledged those who had died for Irish independence and that those
:17:21. > :17:26.who had served the Crown, but tens of thousands of Irishmen who had
:17:26. > :17:31.fought in the First World War, so long forgotten in the Irish state,
:17:31. > :17:35.now remembered as never before. Another historian hopes the
:17:35. > :17:40.goodwill associated with recent political developments, will still
:17:40. > :17:46.allow for a warts-and-all approach to the centenaries. The emphasis
:17:46. > :17:50.has to be on reconciliation and on a shared histories and on
:17:50. > :17:54.respecting diversity and being inclusive. That is fine to a point.
:17:54. > :17:58.But you're also have got to be aware of all very contrived
:17:59. > :18:03.commemorations. There is not point in air brushing some of those
:18:03. > :18:09.difficult questions, particularly the subversion of democracy in the
:18:09. > :18:14.1920s. The committee will also look at the role of Labour and the
:18:14. > :18:18.Greater Dublin lock-out of 1913, and women's battle for the vote.
:18:18. > :18:24.Although parliamentary democracy may have been subverted, historians
:18:24. > :18:29.say that subversion was temporary. 100 years on, we still have a
:18:29. > :18:33.democratic system, elected politicians, power-sharing. In many
:18:33. > :18:39.ways parliamentary democracy has triumphed despite the wars and
:18:39. > :18:42.civil wars of the early 20th century. Ireland North and South is
:18:42. > :18:50.not unique in having a difficult historical legacy to confront. The
:18:50. > :18:54.Centenary Committee chairman thinks a good example is being set.
:18:54. > :18:59.years is a very short time. For example, in France, 80 years after
:18:59. > :19:04.collaboration, it is impossible to have an open objective discussion.
:19:04. > :19:09.The Spanish Civil War, ended in 1939, again Spain is not in a
:19:09. > :19:13.position to have an open comprehensive debate. In the next
:19:13. > :19:19.few years, historians will continue to debate the issues of the
:19:19. > :19:23.centenaries, like the executions of the Easter 1916 leaders hearing
:19:23. > :19:28.problem. While we may be less prisoners of the past, that same
:19:28. > :19:31.past can still cast a shadow over an island emerging from decades of
:19:31. > :19:34.mistrust and violence. Shane Harrison reporting. The parties
:19:34. > :19:37.might seem to be agreed that the latest wage increase for MLAs is a
:19:37. > :19:40.bad move. But there's not much sign of consensus on the nationalist
:19:40. > :19:45.side, with the SDLP this week voting against the Executive's
:19:45. > :19:52.programme for government. With me is Dolores Kelly of the SDLP, and
:19:53. > :19:57.Sinn Fein's Phil Flanagan. Dolores, you're minister sits on the
:19:57. > :20:00.Executive. You Party agreed the Budget. What is this? When the
:20:00. > :20:07.programme for Government was published in draft form there were
:20:07. > :20:12.many people who responded to it in a critical way. Is not just the El
:20:12. > :20:16.-- the SDLP who said there were a number of things wrong. Not least
:20:16. > :20:20.the failure of the Executive to recognise and make account for the
:20:20. > :20:28.welfare cuts to protect people better. The SDLP would not support
:20:28. > :20:33.something that is not right. We are there to hold ministers to account.
:20:33. > :20:39.You are right in the heart of Government? Yes, and our Minister
:20:39. > :20:42.has done a very good job, unlike some other parties whose ministers
:20:42. > :20:48.have had to step down and other ministers to have been controlled -
:20:48. > :20:52.- called control freaks. The SDLP takes a wider view and will
:20:52. > :20:56.actually hold and say what is right and what is good. We were very
:20:56. > :21:00.constructive about the economic investment strategy. We are not
:21:00. > :21:06.happy about the programme for Government. You say your voice is
:21:06. > :21:11.not being heard? It is being heard. It was being heard when Alex
:21:11. > :21:14.Attwood had discussions about some of the welfare proposals. We do not
:21:14. > :21:18.think it up has been done to make a special case for the people of
:21:18. > :21:23.North affected by the cuts. This demonstrates that fear lack of
:21:23. > :21:27.leadership from the SDLP. I am very disappointed with the stance taken
:21:27. > :21:31.by the SDLP. Since I entered the assembly it has been nothing but
:21:31. > :21:36.negativity from the SDLP. It has been doing a quicker service to
:21:36. > :21:39.nationalism. I am very keen that we in the assembly send a very
:21:39. > :21:46.positive and progressive message to the electorate, that we are there
:21:46. > :21:51.to make a difference, to deliver for the people. This programme for
:21:51. > :21:58.Government is not delivering. We are part of Government. They are
:21:58. > :22:06.the largest parties. Sinn Fein have a veto. They can veto the worst of
:22:06. > :22:10.the DUP. They do not do that. They have a certain mentality when it
:22:10. > :22:15.comes to be people in the south. They say it is OK for the people in
:22:16. > :22:19.the north to face cuts. The point is that the Executive works on the
:22:19. > :22:26.basis of collective responsibility. Your Minister is administering the
:22:26. > :22:30.decisions. It also works on Power share thing -- power-sharing, not
:22:30. > :22:35.power car up. You don't like criticism that is not from within
:22:35. > :22:40.the bigger parties? I would just pick up on something Dolores has
:22:40. > :22:50.raised. It is great to see the SDLP take an interest in politics south
:22:50. > :22:51.
:22:51. > :22:56.of the border. This is to be negative agenda. The SDLP and
:22:56. > :23:00.recently came out to say they were in support of an austerity treaty
:23:00. > :23:04.in the south, but against progress in the north. Sinn Fein have
:23:04. > :23:09.progress about the welfare reform agenda being pushed by the Tory
:23:09. > :23:13.Government. But the SDLP promised us that when the SDLP went to
:23:13. > :23:18.Westminster, they would make a difference. They have not made a
:23:18. > :23:24.blind bit of difference in terms of welfare reform. At least they were
:23:24. > :23:28.there. They were there but what had they done? We have a clear policy
:23:28. > :23:35.of Stead's -- of abstention is them. We believe positive difference can
:23:36. > :23:40.be made in the Executive. Why was Alex asked -- why was Alex Attwood
:23:40. > :23:45.not at the last executive meeting? Why West Alastair Macdonald not
:23:45. > :23:55.part of the debate? First off, Alastair Macdonald was off to
:23:55. > :23:57.
:23:57. > :24:03.Westminster to welcome the Taoiseach to Westminster. He wanted
:24:03. > :24:08.to strengthen those ties. suggested he was at a funeral.
:24:09. > :24:12.was Alex. Alex was on route to Brussels and attended away cows on
:24:12. > :24:17.the way. He has had to go to Brussels because of the mess that
:24:17. > :24:22.has been left behind in relation to the Strangford Lough scenario,
:24:22. > :24:28.where there are potential infection proceedings. In the last executive
:24:28. > :24:33.when Sinn Fein and the DUP held the two ministries with responsibility.
:24:33. > :24:38.There is huge concern about infection from Europe. Is this not
:24:38. > :24:42.just party politics? It is a political situation. There are
:24:42. > :24:46.party politics. The SDLP has been very positive in terms of what we
:24:46. > :24:52.seek to do. It has been very positive through difficult times,
:24:52. > :24:55.violent times in the past. The SDLP has always thought to have positive
:24:55. > :25:00.outcomes through dialogue and move Northern Ireland forward. We
:25:00. > :25:05.believe now we have Sinn Fein and the DUP Arcady centre ground of
:25:05. > :25:09.politics, we have achieved quite a lot through a positive outlook.
:25:09. > :25:15.There is a survey that suggests the Ulster Unionist Party has no
:25:15. > :25:24.influence within the Executive. How much influence as the SDLP had?
:25:24. > :25:27.Mijas edition deadlines. -- we have sufficient influence. He began this
:25:27. > :25:34.discussion by saying that your voice was not being heard. Now you
:25:34. > :25:38.say that Alex Attwood would not be bullied. What I said was that where
:25:38. > :25:44.we have influence and can make the decisions, we do that in the best
:25:44. > :25:49.interest of people. Alex will make his own judgment on that. Alex got
:25:49. > :25:55.amendments to some of the social reform coming down. When the worst
:25:55. > :25:59.of some of these cuts came down, Sinn Fein and the DUP had at the
:25:59. > :26:09.top. They used in the case of the just Minster -- justice minister.
:26:09. > :26:13.
:26:13. > :26:16.Phil Flanagan cap --, Heidi you answer the criticism that
:26:16. > :26:19.essentially you like the smaller parties under the tent but you
:26:19. > :26:24.don't like to hear the criticism q macro we have no problem with
:26:24. > :26:28.criticism. Public consultation exists did give the public a voice.
:26:28. > :26:36.As a young nationalist and somebody was 10 years of age when the first
:26:36. > :26:42.IRA ceasefire was announced in 1984, I find it somewhat ironic that the
:26:42. > :26:48.SDLP joined with Jim Allister him traipsing through the Laulala
:26:49. > :26:54.breeze for the programme for Government. -- the lower lobbies. I
:26:54. > :27:00.don't see how welcoming and the Kennedy to London is part of the
:27:00. > :27:03.SDLP strategy. Phil has got an agenda to attack the SDLP. That is
:27:03. > :27:08.very clear. It is very disappointing that rather than work
:27:08. > :27:12.with us in the best interest of people facing very difficult times,
:27:12. > :27:16.that Sinn Fein on a regular basis go through the lobbies with the DUP
:27:16. > :27:21.were very much Centre Right politics. There are and number of
:27:21. > :27:25.voices within the SDLP who want to work productively and positively to
:27:25. > :27:30.make a difference. Are you suggesting the party is divided?
:27:30. > :27:34.The party is all over the place. There is a clear lack of leadership.
:27:34. > :27:41.There are some MLAs who want to make a difference. I would not like
:27:41. > :27:45.to single about. You're talking nonsense. Some of the younger MLAs