0:00:22 > 0:00:26Hello and welcome to the programme. The controversy over the Sinn Fein
0:00:26 > 0:00:29appointment of a convicted killer as a Stormont adviser is the latest
0:00:29 > 0:00:32manifestation of a seemingly intractable question about how we
0:00:32 > 0:00:35should deal with the legacy of the troubles. This week, the first and
0:00:35 > 0:00:37Deputy First Ministers endorse add new initiative to record for
0:00:37 > 0:00:41posterity, the accounts of people who came through violence, to
0:00:41 > 0:00:45become closely involved in the peace process and, in a few minutes,
0:00:45 > 0:00:49I'll be asking Peter Robinson for his views on the long-term
0:00:49 > 0:00:54solutions. First, Julia Paul on the latest efforts to heal the wounds
0:00:54 > 0:01:01of the past. This reconciliation statue stands
0:01:01 > 0:01:06in the grounds of Stormont. It's a copy of statues also erected in the
0:01:06 > 0:01:10ruins of Coventry Cathedral, at hirosh may in Japan and Berlin in
0:01:10 > 0:01:14Germany -- Hiroshima. It links all the places because all have seen
0:01:14 > 0:01:18terrible events which have shaped their histories. Unlike those other
0:01:18 > 0:01:22places, in Northern Ireland, the past is never far from the present
0:01:22 > 0:01:26because no-one can agree on exactly what happened.
0:01:26 > 0:01:30So, maybe the answer is to make sure that everyone's version of
0:01:30 > 0:01:34history is included. May I say to all of you who've come from near
0:01:34 > 0:01:39and far, thank you so much for giving up some time this afternoon.
0:01:39 > 0:01:44At Stormont, the great and good gather to hear about a Newark demic
0:01:45 > 0:01:48study into the peace process. The Layers of Meaning project, led by
0:01:48 > 0:01:52researchers from Queen Mary University of London, will collate
0:01:52 > 0:01:57an online archive, including interviews with 100 key players in
0:01:57 > 0:02:02the peace process. There'll also be a community project to record
0:02:02 > 0:02:06personal stories from people in the border areas. There are so many
0:02:06 > 0:02:10people even that were once household names that are no longer
0:02:10 > 0:02:14household names, people that have long since been forgotten but
0:02:14 > 0:02:17played a key role and there were many other people that were never
0:02:17 > 0:02:20in the public domain. When you get to ground level, there's also
0:02:20 > 0:02:23individuals that are crying out to be heard and feel their stories and
0:02:23 > 0:02:25experiences haven't been represented and perhaps -- in
0:02:25 > 0:02:29perhaps the books that have been written. In that sense, I think
0:02:29 > 0:02:34this is an opportunity to capture, for future generations, that wide
0:02:34 > 0:02:40range of accounts. I honestly think there's a sense of urgency about it.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43Even as we develop this proposal, a number of key witnesses passed away
0:02:43 > 0:02:47and other obituaries follow week- by-week. There is a sense of
0:02:47 > 0:02:53urgency in terms of kp churing that. It has support in Northern Ireland
0:02:53 > 0:02:58as the highest level -- capturing that. History has many voices and
0:02:58 > 0:03:02many of them are in this room. In one way or another, everyone here's
0:03:02 > 0:03:09had some role during the period of the last decades in Northern
0:03:09 > 0:03:13Ireland. Each of us with our own angle and vision has a view on how
0:03:13 > 0:03:18problems arose, how they continued and who was to blame, what might
0:03:18 > 0:03:23have been done better. One of the faders of the peace process and the
0:03:23 > 0:03:26peace process as one of the most successful peace processes in the
0:03:26 > 0:03:30world today, is that they feel they have to deal with the past. We
0:03:30 > 0:03:34spend a lot of time talking about it from the Good Friday Agreement,
0:03:35 > 0:03:38right through to the present day. Those who're critical of a solution
0:03:38 > 0:03:44not being found, they haven't come up with any solutions themselves.
0:03:44 > 0:03:48But the problem is, one person's solution to the past can rub salt
0:03:48 > 0:03:53into the wounds of another. The long-awaited report into how to
0:03:53 > 0:03:57deal with Northern Ireland's history, chaired by Lord Eames and
0:03:57 > 0:04:02Dennis Bradley, was released two years ago and has been garting dust
0:04:02 > 0:04:08since. When launched, one of the proposals the make recognition
0:04:08 > 0:04:12payments to victims was deeply controversial. Just stop it, will
0:04:12 > 0:04:17you! Just stop it! That's the problem with Northern Ireland,
0:04:17 > 0:04:21we've all got to be heard. Sorry. We came to the process, most of us,
0:04:21 > 0:04:28aware of the vast array of opinions that victims have so that not every
0:04:28 > 0:04:31victim wants the same thing. Reverend Lesley Carroll sat on the
0:04:31 > 0:04:35independent consultative group that drew up the report. One thing we
0:04:35 > 0:04:38were counselled about early in the process was to be aware always of
0:04:38 > 0:04:42who wasn't talking to us. We were conscious that there was a swathe
0:04:42 > 0:04:47of victims who were not talking to us at all, who were wanting
0:04:47 > 0:04:51absolutely nothing done, just let it be, let us get on with our lives,
0:04:51 > 0:04:55we don't want to rake this up, and we always have to balance that
0:04:55 > 0:04:58against, I suppose, the two big calls that victims do make, one
0:04:58 > 0:05:01being for justice, I want somebody to pay for this, I want to see
0:05:01 > 0:05:05somebody brought to justice, I want to see this going through the
0:05:05 > 0:05:08courts, and the other call which was, I would like to know why this
0:05:08 > 0:05:12happened, who did this, why did they do it, they're looking for a
0:05:12 > 0:05:15bit of truth. So those were 2t things we were handling around
0:05:15 > 0:05:22victims really. Well, talking about it is one way
0:05:22 > 0:05:25of tealing with the past. But this academic study is not aiming to
0:05:25 > 0:05:28collect paramilitary confessions. Interviewees are warned not to talk
0:05:28 > 0:05:34about illegal activity which has not been dealt with by the courts,
0:05:34 > 0:05:36and some of the interviews will remain unpublished for 40 years.
0:05:36 > 0:05:40One thing we thought specifically with regard to politicians was,
0:05:40 > 0:05:44they're never going to speak to us frankly, they are going to just
0:05:44 > 0:05:47sing from the Hymnsheet when we ask them to speak on the record. There
0:05:47 > 0:05:51are other people - I think it would be fair to say that the peace in
0:05:51 > 0:05:57Northern Ireland is an uneasy peace - it's not a full peace yet. Other
0:05:57 > 0:06:02people who say in the business community very much be hind the
0:06:02 > 0:06:08scenes over the years have made huge contrinyuetions to
0:06:08 > 0:06:11reconciliation between communities and peace initiatives -- huge
0:06:11 > 0:06:15contributions. Unless we give guarantees, these people won't
0:06:15 > 0:06:22spook. Among those attending the event was Richard moofrpblt in 1972,
0:06:22 > 0:06:27he was blinded, aged ten, by a plastic bullet. -- Richard Moore.
0:06:27 > 0:06:31In 1986, he founded the charity, children in crossfire. This project
0:06:31 > 0:06:35here's certainly very worthwhile. Any avenue through which people can
0:06:36 > 0:06:39hear the experiences of other people and also where their story
0:06:39 > 0:06:43can be validated is very important. I'm probably lucky in a sense that
0:06:43 > 0:06:50over the years my story's been told many times or people have asked me
0:06:50 > 0:06:54my story or whatever. But really there are people within the four
0:06:54 > 0:06:58walls of their house and they're still experiencing the terrible
0:06:58 > 0:07:03trauma that maybe happened 30, 35 years ago and they are having to
0:07:03 > 0:07:06deal with that. It's been ten years since this statue was erected at
0:07:06 > 0:07:13Stormont. The reconciliation it celebrates is still far from come
0:07:13 > 0:07:18pleement, but in the last decade, in Northern Ireland, think just how
0:07:18 > 0:07:22much has changed -- still far from complete. The same issues come up
0:07:22 > 0:07:26time and time again, this issue affects so many different layers
0:07:26 > 0:07:29and levels. Do you sen it's probably one of the most important
0:07:29 > 0:07:34issues for you to address in the next term of the assembly -- do you
0:07:34 > 0:07:39accept? It's certainly an important issue, but when you say "address
0:07:39 > 0:07:43it", I'm not sure there is an easy solution to this one. There is no
0:07:43 > 0:07:48consensus as to how we deal with the issues of the past. Certainly,
0:07:48 > 0:07:52there'll never be a common and agreed history as far as the past
0:07:52 > 0:07:56is concerned. It's very clear that the kind of initiative that we
0:07:56 > 0:08:02dealt with during the course of the week allows everybody to tell their
0:08:02 > 0:08:05story from their angle and vision and it's uninterrupted. It's
0:08:05 > 0:08:09unchallenged. Then the academics and historians and others can look
0:08:09 > 0:08:14at what was said and make their own judgments in the future. On a
0:08:14 > 0:08:19purely practical level, we've had criticism this week from the
0:08:19 > 0:08:23Victims' Commission of the OFM saying there is an absence, delay
0:08:23 > 0:08:27releasing funds to people who need money, victims suffering chronic
0:08:27 > 0:08:31pain, a lack of progress on a victim service and what's needed is
0:08:31 > 0:08:35a whole change management strategy. Do you accept all of those or any
0:08:35 > 0:08:38of those criticisms? There's always room for improvement in any system.
0:08:38 > 0:08:43A good start would be to have direct conversation with us, rather
0:08:43 > 0:08:47than grabbing headlines on the issue. Well, he says he wrote twice
0:08:47 > 0:08:51to your office seeking an interview? The issue is dealt with
0:08:51 > 0:08:54by junior ministers and they met them just before the election
0:08:54 > 0:08:59period. We have substantially increased the amount of money that
0:08:59 > 0:09:05we are putting into the victims' issues and, of course, we want to
0:09:05 > 0:09:10ensure it gets directly to people. I have people coming to me with
0:09:10 > 0:09:13issues relating to the Memorial Fund, so we want the smoothest
0:09:13 > 0:09:17possible process. We are somewhat moving, because the weight is now
0:09:17 > 0:09:21more towards trying to get individual victim who is've perhaps
0:09:21 > 0:09:25not got linked in with victims' groups, so there is a movement
0:09:25 > 0:09:33going on within the victims' organisations. On the wider issue,
0:09:33 > 0:09:39you said at the time of the Eames Bradley report, you accused them of
0:09:39 > 0:09:42moral ambivalent and equivalence. The DUP was working in its own
0:09:42 > 0:09:46definitions, you said, have you made any progress on that? We put a
0:09:46 > 0:09:50Bill before the Assembly on the issue. As far as how to deal with
0:09:50 > 0:09:55the victims' issues, we have very much been basing our way forward
0:09:55 > 0:10:00around the story-telling. Indeed, if you look at the kind of pace and
0:10:00 > 0:10:04reconciliation constructive that we are looking at for that, you will
0:10:04 > 0:10:07see there is a story-telling element in that. I think if we get
0:10:07 > 0:10:10into a situation where we are expecting everybody to come to the
0:10:10 > 0:10:14table and tell the complete truth about their role in the past,
0:10:14 > 0:10:20you're not going to get that. Therefore it leaves it very open to
0:10:20 > 0:10:24people trying to rewrite history to propaganda, rather than truth and
0:10:24 > 0:10:27reconciliation through that process. Is it then perhaps better to do
0:10:27 > 0:10:33nothing on a wider scale simply to let the arguments go on, because,
0:10:33 > 0:10:36as you say, agroment will never be reached? -- agreement will never be
0:10:36 > 0:10:40reached? If you are expecting to have a version of the past that
0:10:40 > 0:10:44everybody's going to endorse and put their hand up there, irnever
0:10:44 > 0:10:48going to get there. We have seen over the last number of weeks, any
0:10:48 > 0:10:51reference back to the past on incidents that have occurred causes
0:10:52 > 0:10:56great hurt within the community. I'm not sure this community wants
0:10:56 > 0:11:01to relive all of the events it's gone through. I think there is a
0:11:01 > 0:11:05requirement on the part of victims to be able to express their hurt,
0:11:05 > 0:11:08how they've lost, how unjust it was the way they were treated and the
0:11:08 > 0:11:15story-telling process allows them to do that in a way that doesn't
0:11:15 > 0:11:18get us into a process where it's judicially, where you have QCs
0:11:18 > 0:11:22lined up making more money out of the process having the case argued
0:11:22 > 0:11:26out and orders cross-examination, that's not the way forward.
0:11:26 > 0:11:30said the appointment of Mary McArdle was a mistake, but you
0:11:30 > 0:11:36stopped short of calling for her resignation. Your colleague said
0:11:36 > 0:11:41she should. Why did not not go that step further? I thought I had gone
0:11:41 > 0:11:45that far, by saying she shouldn't have been appointed. But not saying
0:11:45 > 0:11:47she should resign? I have no process to stop that person
0:11:47 > 0:11:50maintaining themselvess in that job. It's silly for any senior
0:11:50 > 0:11:55Government officer to be saying somebody should do something when
0:11:55 > 0:11:59you haven't got the power to do it. It gives you a position of
0:11:59 > 0:12:02principle, doesn't it? I have no reluctance in saying I don't
0:12:02 > 0:12:06believe she should have been in the job. It was insensitive and it's
0:12:06 > 0:12:11turned out to be a major calamity as far as Sinn Fein's concerned.
0:12:11 > 0:12:15But I've done more than simply talk about the issue. I've taken a step
0:12:15 > 0:12:18of asking the Finance Minister to bring forward proposals as to how
0:12:18 > 0:12:22he might look at the issues in the future. Don't forget... Isn't that
0:12:22 > 0:12:26a way of doing nothing in the sense of a particularly controversial
0:12:26 > 0:12:30incident. What will the reports say, we shouldn't have any more
0:12:30 > 0:12:33advisers? What's it likely to come up with? Well, I don't want to,
0:12:33 > 0:12:40because I'm expecting to see nit the next number of day, but I would
0:12:40 > 0:12:44have very surprised if it didn't say, a special adviser is appointed.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48That person is automatically seconded to the Civil Service, they
0:12:48 > 0:12:54therefore are a temporary civil servant. What argument could you
0:12:54 > 0:12:57possibly put forward that says that someone who's brought in at
0:12:57 > 0:12:59probably about grade five of the Civil Service should not meet the
0:12:59 > 0:13:03entry standards of the Civil Service. I think those are the
0:13:03 > 0:13:07kinds of issues that we have to look at. What do you mean, in terms
0:13:07 > 0:13:12of educational achievement? Education, character, background,
0:13:13 > 0:13:17those issues. Would that not be discriminatory? Discriminatory that
0:13:17 > 0:13:21somebody comes in as an AO or AA should have a higher standard than
0:13:21 > 0:13:27somebody who's grade five? Sinn Fein have been saying for example,
0:13:27 > 0:13:32Martin McGuinness said he compared the appointment of Mary McArdle to
0:13:33 > 0:13:37the appointment of Nelson Mandela who didn't have much of an
0:13:37 > 0:13:41education. Is that comparison ludicrous? Anyone will find a
0:13:41 > 0:13:45difficulty in aligning the comparison. Again, there are
0:13:45 > 0:13:49complex issues. With an elected representative, I don't think that
0:13:49 > 0:13:54you have the right to interfere with the people's choice. These are
0:13:54 > 0:13:57positions which are paid positions of Government. In my view, they
0:13:57 > 0:14:00should align with the entry requirements of the Civil Service.
0:14:00 > 0:14:05But those are matters for the executive and ultimately for the
0:14:05 > 0:14:11Assembly to decide. So you could someone who has won a university
0:14:11 > 0:14:15degree in prison where he or she has been for committing a murder
0:14:16 > 0:14:18who'd then be OK to appoint? wouldn't get into the Civil Service
0:14:18 > 0:14:21if you were responsible for a murder. There are entry
0:14:21 > 0:14:25requirements for the Civil Service. I'm saying that if you bring
0:14:25 > 0:14:29somebody in at grade five, at the very least you could expect someone
0:14:29 > 0:14:35at that pay grade and responsibility grade is a that they
0:14:35 > 0:14:38meet the entry standards. Turning to the tribunal in Dublin,
0:14:38 > 0:14:41investigating the border murder of two officers, the Government's said
0:14:41 > 0:14:45they have to produce the final report by November. Do you think
0:14:46 > 0:14:55it's right to have that kind of time limit imposed on any such
0:14:55 > 0:14:59inquiry? No, it's not right. We raised this. I've spoken privately
0:14:59 > 0:15:02to people and the Taoiseach. We discussed it at the council meeting
0:15:02 > 0:15:07and on every occasion, the Government have made it very clear
0:15:07 > 0:15:12that if more time is genuinely needed, it will be given. There was
0:15:12 > 0:15:15some concern about the delay before there were any public hearings held.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19They're now under way. There are some fairly disturbing outcomes of
0:15:19 > 0:15:25the public hearings so far. I think it's important that everybody sees
0:15:25 > 0:15:29that the full story does come out and a proper assessment is made.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32were you encouraged that IRA members gave evidence to that
0:15:32 > 0:15:35tribunal? They didn't give evidence to the tribunal. There was a
0:15:35 > 0:15:40private meeting, as I understand it. With the legal team of the
0:15:40 > 0:15:45tribunal? Well, as I understand it, with very clear demarkation lines
0:15:45 > 0:15:48about what was being said and what could be passed on, it isn't the
0:15:48 > 0:15:53same as coming before the tribunal, making themselves subject to
0:15:53 > 0:16:03questioning from the other side. That just didn't happen. Do you
0:16:03 > 0:16:09
0:16:09 > 0:16:13think the Secretary of State should Why is there a requirement for that
0:16:13 > 0:16:18particular murder to be investigated? This is a difficulty
0:16:18 > 0:16:21I have because people say to me, are my loved ones not as important?
0:16:21 > 0:16:25You have people who why in the assembly who have been responsible
0:16:25 > 0:16:29for murders and they are in government, are they not just as
0:16:29 > 0:16:36likely to be brought before a tribunal and questioned about these
0:16:36 > 0:16:41issues? To some extent, the range of issues, because people like to
0:16:41 > 0:16:46inquire about what the state has done, start to skew what the queue
0:16:46 > 0:16:50is of the past and start to rewrite the history of the past as if one
0:16:50 > 0:16:55section of the community a loan was the section that was the victims.
0:16:55 > 0:17:02You do not sound like this could be any long-term strategy available in
0:17:02 > 0:17:06the lifetime of this assembly for legacy issues. I think there is
0:17:06 > 0:17:11under criminal we make a start on the issue of storytelling and both
0:17:11 > 0:17:15Gerry Adams and I endorse the initiative this week. Both of us by
0:17:15 > 0:17:20endorsing the kind of programme that we have talked about, the
0:17:20 > 0:17:26peace and reconciliation centre which will allow prison officers,
0:17:26 > 0:17:32army personnel, victims, prisoners or to have their say as to how,
0:17:32 > 0:17:39from their angle of vision, they saw the past number of decades.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42land valuation at Crossnacreevy, valued at �200 million, to enable
0:17:42 > 0:17:47the Department of Finance and Personnel to give subsidies to
0:17:47 > 0:17:53farmers. How could that have happened? A valuation which has now
0:17:53 > 0:17:57been reduced to 2.8 million. It is crazy. You have remember the
0:17:57 > 0:18:01context in which it was done whether valuations of properties
0:18:01 > 0:18:05were going up and up. It is not the role of ministers to be charging
0:18:06 > 0:18:10what we are told by our professionals. Now has dropped in
0:18:10 > 0:18:15the committee yesterday when it was revealed this valuation was arrived
0:18:15 > 0:18:18at by getting a valuation for land with planning permission in Belfast
0:18:18 > 0:18:25and multiply it by the number of acres. There seemed to an absurd
0:18:25 > 0:18:30way of doing it. Yes. The new endorsed that method. I did not
0:18:30 > 0:18:35endorse that method at all. DD not ask how the valuation was arrived
0:18:35 > 0:18:40at? We are given valuations for properties and it is not our
0:18:40 > 0:18:46position to question a professional valuation. But it was not a
0:18:46 > 0:18:52professional valuation it was multiplied by the acting Permanent
0:18:52 > 0:18:57Secretary. We were given it as a professional valuation of the land.
0:18:57 > 0:19:02So you accept it was not a professional evaluation. The only
0:19:02 > 0:19:06valuation at that land, with prices going up almost daily, had begun on
0:19:06 > 0:19:14the basis of what the values were currently up that time. It is
0:19:14 > 0:19:18absurd to think that any planning permission could up the value of
0:19:18 > 0:19:22lamb which did have planning permission. And one year later its
0:19:22 > 0:19:28value was reduced on paper by a teatime. It is a bad deal for the
0:19:28 > 0:19:33taxpayer. There was no deal for the tax payer. They did not lose any
0:19:33 > 0:19:40money. They still have the land. But they have paid out 100 to �2
0:19:40 > 0:19:46million on the basis of its assumed value. They did not spend the money.
0:19:46 > 0:19:51Money was allocated. At this moment in time, �150 million will be quite
0:19:51 > 0:19:56useful. We are not talking about money having been spent on anything.
0:19:56 > 0:20:00We are talking about money being given to the Department of
0:20:00 > 0:20:04Agriculture to be used for public use. I guarantee you that the
0:20:04 > 0:20:10executive would have given the money anyway for that purpose.
0:20:10 > 0:20:13amount? Well, why wouldn't they? Because they had to find his summer
0:20:13 > 0:20:16because they did not have it and that is why the Department of
0:20:16 > 0:20:20Agriculture got this valuation because it was on the how was going
0:20:20 > 0:20:30to justify the money. If there is a requirement for us to find funds,
0:20:30 > 0:20:31
0:20:31 > 0:20:36we find the funds, whether it is by reducing the assets of a department.
0:20:36 > 0:20:39We ensured that the Health Department, and under our present
0:20:39 > 0:20:44minister I can be certain the Health Department well-conceived
0:20:44 > 0:20:47where the savings they can be made a good be made. I could go into
0:20:47 > 0:20:51some very considerable detail about the way the health department has
0:20:51 > 0:20:55been handled over the last four years where the performance and
0:20:55 > 0:20:59will begin it could not go through the doors, so there we could see
0:20:59 > 0:21:04where savings could be made. efficiency is not a word you would
0:21:04 > 0:21:09associate with this land deal. You're talking about a land dealers
0:21:09 > 0:21:13of land was sold. It was not sold. It is still within the government's
0:21:13 > 0:21:18responsibility. Money was given from one department to another for
0:21:19 > 0:21:24the purpose that would have been agreed by the executive. It is all
0:21:24 > 0:21:30very best minister at Bond level. If it is, it is not this minister.
0:21:30 > 0:21:35We allocate funds on the basis of professional valuation. I am not in
0:21:35 > 0:21:41the position of going out, did King of the land, of measuring it,
0:21:41 > 0:21:49determining what is value it is. did not crush your mind to say hold
0:21:49 > 0:21:52on a minute? Hold on a minute for what? Tom Eliot would have been the
0:21:52 > 0:21:57first person saying that we need the money for the Department of
0:21:57 > 0:22:01Agriculture, as indeed most of the executive would be saying as well.
0:22:02 > 0:22:08The Chancellor is here this week, do you think he is fit to progress
0:22:08 > 0:22:12the issue of lowering corporation tax? Is that the a new way for it?
0:22:12 > 0:22:18I'm not convinced it is the only way forward, I am convinced it
0:22:18 > 0:22:24would be a massive help and would encourage local indigenous business
0:22:24 > 0:22:29to expand. But not at any cost, your finance minister says. In
0:22:29 > 0:22:36other words, if it will cost us too much of what we bought loose from
0:22:36 > 0:22:40the submission. Obviously, a judgment would have been made. We
0:22:40 > 0:22:42have a block grant and we have to look at the amount of money that is
0:22:42 > 0:22:47reduced in that block grant as opposed to the benefits that we
0:22:47 > 0:22:52would get from a lower rate of corporation tax. Ian Paisley Junior
0:22:52 > 0:22:56has been nasty about the assembly saying that the quality of debate
0:22:56 > 0:23:01is pathetic and that it is more like a county council than the
0:23:02 > 0:23:05regional parliament. Do you accept those criticisms? I don't think I
0:23:05 > 0:23:09accept any of them. There are individuals within the assembly who
0:23:09 > 0:23:14have come from the local Cubbon background who, at the early part
0:23:14 > 0:23:17of a turn, still have not come to terms with the new level at which
0:23:17 > 0:23:24they are operating. That is a learning curve, just as those who
0:23:24 > 0:23:28have just entered Westminster had a learning curve. Do you think Ian
0:23:28 > 0:23:35Paisley Junior has just cut a bit above himself with the pick job?
0:23:35 > 0:23:39You think that is the big job? thinks it is! Most people will say
0:23:39 > 0:23:42that the real business of politics is taking place in the assembly and
0:23:42 > 0:23:50that is where those who want to be involved in the cut-and-thrust want
0:23:50 > 0:23:56to be. He says that is where the decisions will be made, not in the
0:23:56 > 0:24:01current county council of December, as he puts it. The reality for all
0:24:01 > 0:24:05of us is that we have the job of work to do in the assembly. I
0:24:05 > 0:24:11regard that as being very important and the regard the level of
0:24:11 > 0:24:21contribution in the assembly to be every good as at Westminster.
0:24:21 > 0:24:22
0:24:22 > 0:24:25Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over
0:24:25 > 0:24:29again and somehow expecting the results to be different. And here
0:24:29 > 0:24:32we are, a few weeks after yet another election which promised to
0:24:32 > 0:24:36keep us moving forward in a spirit of harmony and stability, and the
0:24:36 > 0:24:39handbags are out already, with the bitching back at full volume. A
0:24:39 > 0:24:43hardly surprising result when you return exactly the same parties,
0:24:43 > 0:24:46with exactly the same attitudes and mostly the same people and then put
0:24:46 > 0:24:49them into exactly the same Executive. But hey, we always knew
0:24:49 > 0:24:52that this was less of an election and more of a one-hour make-over
0:24:52 > 0:24:54programme. Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness made polite,
0:24:54 > 0:24:57albeit giggly noises, about Tom Elliott's game-changing proposals
0:24:57 > 0:25:00for a collectively binding Programme for Government before the
0:25:00 > 0:25:02Executive was formed, only to dump the idea when the ballot boxes
0:25:02 > 0:25:05closed and they could stop pretending that they actually
0:25:05 > 0:25:08respected each other. So prepare yourselves for another four years
0:25:08 > 0:25:11in which so many policies required for creating the new-era Northern
0:25:11 > 0:25:16Ireland will be brushed under so many carpets that ministers will
0:25:16 > 0:25:18eventually have to don hiking boots and then climb a mountain to get
0:25:18 > 0:25:21into their offices. Instead of real politics, therefore, the parties
0:25:21 > 0:25:24will have too much time on their hands for indulging the age-old
0:25:24 > 0:25:27rituals of score-settling and annoying the hell out of each other.
0:25:27 > 0:25:31Shortly after Queen Elizabeth II received a standing ovation in
0:25:31 > 0:25:35Dublin Castle, the new Sinn Fein Lord Mayor of Belfast replaced her
0:25:35 > 0:25:38portrait with the 1916 Proclamation of Irish Freedom. Mind you, this
0:25:38 > 0:25:41piece of calculated pettiness probably had more to do with the
0:25:41 > 0:25:45fact that the DUP's Deputy Lord Mayor is refusing to talk to him,
0:25:45 > 0:25:48because it seems downright churlish to blame the Queen for Sinn Fein's
0:25:48 > 0:25:52singular failure to get rid of the border, let alone deliver A Nation
0:25:52 > 0:25:55Once Again. Over at Limavady it's as though the Good Friday Agreement
0:25:55 > 0:25:59never happened, although it needs to be borne in mind that Limavady
0:25:59 > 0:26:03has long operated within its own time zone. Anyway, it's become a
0:26:03 > 0:26:06battle a day between a small Union Jack and a former IRA bomber,
0:26:06 > 0:26:09accompanied by an approach to community relations which owes more
0:26:09 > 0:26:12to EastEnders than to the Shared Future Strategy. In Castlereagh,
0:26:12 > 0:26:17meanwhile, the DUP and UUP have ganged up on Alliance, which is a
0:26:17 > 0:26:20bit like the Kray Twins taking on Mother Theresa. I know, go figure!
0:26:20 > 0:26:24Up at the Assembly, having already trooped past Carson and Craigavon
0:26:24 > 0:26:27on their way to the day job, Martin McGuinness and the Sinn Fein
0:26:27 > 0:26:30benches had to listen to the unionist David Cameron delivering
0:26:30 > 0:26:33an unashamedly pro-Union speech last week. Their faces said it all.
0:26:34 > 0:26:36Safe houses swapped for Stormont. Prison cells swapped for
0:26:36 > 0:26:39ministerial office. Balaclavas swapped for Specsavers and pension
0:26:39 > 0:26:43plans. The armalite and ballot paper swapped for Republican-lite
0:26:43 > 0:26:48bullet points and a parliamentary order paper. Their eyes rolling
0:26:48 > 0:26:52like people awakening to reality after a very long coma. The fact is
0:26:52 > 0:26:55that Sinn Fein has become an old, tired party, a party of broken
0:26:55 > 0:26:58dreams and dashed hopes. Tiocfaidh ar la has been replaced with
0:26:58 > 0:27:01Tiocfaidh a gaga, in which an elderly leadership is still trying
0:27:01 > 0:27:05to convince the younger members of the republican family that unity is
0:27:05 > 0:27:07just around the corner. But just in case it isn't, they'll keep the
0:27:07 > 0:27:11former troops happy with appointments geared to nothing more
0:27:11 > 0:27:16profound than winding up unionists. So there it is. The same-old, same-
0:27:16 > 0:27:19old: writ large, writ small and writ everywhere. 13 years after the
0:27:19 > 0:27:231998 referendum and the parties still find it easier to carve-up
0:27:23 > 0:27:26than to share out. And that's probably why so many of you didn't
0:27:26 > 0:27:30bother to vote. The thoughts of Alex Kane. And that
0:27:30 > 0:27:33brings the season to a close for Hearts and Minds, as the organs of
0:27:33 > 0:27:37Government begin to look forward to the summer shut down. Its been
0:27:37 > 0:27:40another eventful year, thank you for staying with us. We'll be back
0:27:40 > 0:27:50in the autumn, batteries fully charged for another session, I hope
0:27:50 > 0:27:51
0:27:51 > 0:27:56you have a safe and sunny summer. Goodbye. Congratulations to
0:27:56 > 0:28:04Christine bleakly, I wish her all the best. She is marrying a Premier
0:28:04 > 0:28:08League footballer, what could possibly go wrong? One lawyer said
0:28:08 > 0:28:14David Ford won a yellow pack justice and Benny had to explain
0:28:14 > 0:28:20that you a pack is the stuff that poor people have to buy. Most of us
0:28:20 > 0:28:23would be as happy been as rich as a demoted civil servant. We learn
0:28:23 > 0:28:29this week that it is probably easier to turn gay people straight