:00:27. > :00:31.Hello and welcome to the programme. Coming up. The Justice Minister and
:00:31. > :00:36.the fix that kept him in office, but lost his party its second
:00:36. > :00:39.minute Sterry. How ex-prisoners are helping schoolchildren learn about
:00:39. > :00:48.citizenship and conflict. Why Tom Elliott thinks Scottish
:00:48. > :00:52.independence is a bigger threat to the union than the IRA.
:00:52. > :00:55.For the Alliance leader David Ford, the uncertainty is over. It has
:00:55. > :00:58.been agreed that his party will hold on to the justice ministry for
:00:58. > :01:04.the duration of this Assembly. It came at a price, the abolition of
:01:04. > :01:12.the did Department of Education, meaning that they lost a seat at
:01:12. > :01:16.the table. Mr Ford, you went from describing the merging malicious
:01:16. > :01:22.and bad government, to excepting this deal it that keeps you in
:01:22. > :01:26.Kenya, but losing Stephen Farry his job? You have got it wrong. The
:01:26. > :01:30.Alliance Party have not accepted anything. The deal is there, but it
:01:30. > :01:34.has not gone through. Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness have
:01:34. > :01:40.set out what they want to happen. We have made it clear. They can see
:01:40. > :01:46.what happens, but they cannot make other people participate. You are
:01:46. > :01:50.not going to stay in the justice ministry? Let us pedal back. The
:01:50. > :01:56.key issue is last May we had an Assembly election and the people of
:01:56. > :01:59.Northern Ireland voted for Alliance, gave us an extra seat and
:01:59. > :02:03.significantly more votes and an entitlement to one of him
:02:03. > :02:08.ministerial post. The First Minister and Deputy First Minister
:02:08. > :02:14.at proposed affix to abolish our right to that. You have one post,
:02:14. > :02:21.the Justice Ministry? It is all fix isn't it? I know what is
:02:21. > :02:25.interesting for you. It is a complicated issue. Our entitlement
:02:25. > :02:32.is to the ministerial post which is awarded on the mathematical
:02:32. > :02:36.proportionality. The offer of the Minister of Justice, which has not
:02:36. > :02:46.actually been formally offered to us, they talk about a cross-
:02:46. > :02:47.
:02:48. > :02:52.community vote. You're interrupting a game! I am getting impatient.
:02:52. > :02:55.Have explaining the key facts between the gift, as they seem to
:02:55. > :03:01.regard it and what the people of Northern Ireland said we were
:03:01. > :03:05.entitled to. If they can fix the system to take out our entitlement
:03:05. > :03:09.of one of the 10 posts, why should I possibly believe any assurances
:03:09. > :03:15.that they will leave me in post, but all they have to do is a simple
:03:15. > :03:17.vote in the Assembly? That is why we believe it is absolutely
:03:18. > :03:25.essential that at Justice Minister or elected on a cross-community
:03:25. > :03:29.vote must have ten-year. They agree with that? What we have not yet got
:03:29. > :03:35.is the assurance that the only way that can be guaranteed, legislation
:03:35. > :03:40.in Westminster, will be provided. That is essential. There is no
:03:40. > :03:44.doubt of that? Do think there is any possibility within the next few
:03:44. > :03:49.months that we will have you not still in the justice ministry and
:03:49. > :03:54.the D T L will have gone. The it is significant doubt whether
:03:54. > :03:56.legislative protection will be provided. I do not think the
:03:56. > :04:01.Secretary of State appreciates the seriousness of the situation. The
:04:01. > :04:08.decision on whether the Lions party will participate will be taken by
:04:08. > :04:11.their counsel. I am not sure if I could go whether I wanted to, to
:04:11. > :04:17.say they chucked out Stephen Farry last week, so we can rely on the
:04:17. > :04:21.promise that I will remain in my post. You said to Owen Paterson
:04:21. > :04:27.will you agree to extend protection for the Justice Ministry and he
:04:27. > :04:29.said no? The position is that the Deputy First Minister and First
:04:29. > :04:33.Minister said they would seek legislation and the Secretary of
:04:33. > :04:40.State is saying there is a difficulty about the timing.
:04:40. > :04:46.the principal? As I understand, the House of Commons is almost as bad
:04:46. > :04:50.as the Assembly, I notice yesterday that the order paper it did not
:04:50. > :04:53.have anything at all on legislation except at Ten Minute Rule Bill,
:04:53. > :04:57.which be no means nothing. They're not actually doing any real work in
:04:57. > :05:01.the House of Commons, so I cannot accept the Secretary of State
:05:01. > :05:05.saying there isn't time to do it. If protection were to be extended,
:05:05. > :05:08.you would except the prolongation of your tenure in the justice
:05:08. > :05:16.ministry and also you would accept the fact that the D L is going to
:05:16. > :05:20.go. That is going to happen? prove that they can they abolish it,
:05:20. > :05:22.proves the need for protection. If there was a guarantee for
:05:22. > :05:26.protection in Westminster legislation, then I would have
:05:26. > :05:31.something to put to the Alliance Party. A why not just throw the
:05:31. > :05:38.whole thing open? There isn't sufficient cross-community
:05:38. > :05:42.confidence. Do you believe that is still the case? A do you think
:05:42. > :05:47.outside Stormont people would object to having Alban Maginness as
:05:47. > :05:52.the Minister? If Alban Maginness got a cross-community vote in the
:05:52. > :05:55.Assembly, then obviously he could be Justice Minister. The reality is
:05:55. > :05:59.that last May he did not get support. There were three
:05:59. > :06:01.candidates and I was the fourth candidate. There would not have
:06:01. > :06:06.been an alliance Justice Minister if anyone had been acceptable from
:06:06. > :06:16.any of the other parties. You do not think anything has changed
:06:16. > :06:16.
:06:16. > :06:21.since then? Not from what I hear from other politicians. Did you
:06:21. > :06:25.taking a job cannot contribute to the continuing sectarianism of
:06:25. > :06:30.politics? If you said you would not take it, it would have been thrown
:06:31. > :06:36.open? Hire and earth to do is the suggestion that some are elected on
:06:36. > :06:40.a cross-community vote, attracting support from across the house, with
:06:40. > :06:47.the background of the Alliance Party have, how on earth is that
:06:47. > :06:52.sectarian icing it? The SDLP have argued that they are entitled to
:06:52. > :06:59.the justice ministry as the next pick, so why not just throw it
:06:59. > :07:04.open? They don't have the next pick! We are entitled to the next
:07:04. > :07:11.pick. If the abolish d e l, we are entitled to one of the 10
:07:11. > :07:15.departments that remains. About the sectarianism, if the DUP and Sinn
:07:15. > :07:18.Fein reckon that there is no one else who can take the cross-
:07:18. > :07:26.community vote, you are accepting their analysis. Why not just throw
:07:26. > :07:30.the whole thing open again? Why not say the you want Northern Ireland
:07:30. > :07:35.to show it is mature enough to let someone on their skills not the
:07:35. > :07:39.party they are from? That has the opportunity the Assembly had. They
:07:39. > :07:42.could collect someone on the basis of the skills they had. They were
:07:42. > :07:47.three people nominated on the first occasion and for people nominated
:07:47. > :07:51.on the second occasion. I was the only person who gain sufficient
:07:51. > :07:57.confidence. Justice was so complicated, so worrying, we could
:07:57. > :08:01.not do it at all in the Good Friday Agreement. I am wondering if this
:08:01. > :08:06.guy would not fall in if it was thrown open? You would need to ask
:08:06. > :08:14.other people from other parties. I do not believe that there is
:08:14. > :08:17.necessary sufficient support for that. I also have said in response
:08:17. > :08:20.to this and Andrew's agreement that we should have a vote in the
:08:20. > :08:24.Assembly that validates the entire Executive. We should not have
:08:24. > :08:27.people nominated by parties, we should show it is a partnership and
:08:27. > :08:32.nature that people are working together by having a vote to
:08:32. > :08:36.endorse the entire Executive. We have a proposal to endorse the
:08:36. > :08:41.Ministry of Justice, but not the entire it Executive. We should be
:08:41. > :08:44.seeking something more than a carve Up in which parties pick a
:08:44. > :08:49.department and establish something like a real working coalition. As
:08:49. > :08:56.soon mean that there is protection offered by legislation and Alliance
:08:56. > :09:00.keeps the job, would you stay as Justice Minister until 2015? Until
:09:00. > :09:06.2015 is a long period, but you are already begging the question as to
:09:06. > :09:15.whether the necessary protection is in place. Let us sing it is. If you
:09:15. > :09:19.are assuming protection is in place,... Let us us in it is.
:09:19. > :09:23.would certainly like to continue to be the Justice Minister, because I
:09:23. > :09:28.am seen work which I initiated coming back and the opportunity to
:09:28. > :09:31.carry that forward. I am not a mortal and I'm not all wise and
:09:31. > :09:41.all-seeing. I have colleagues who are capable of the ministers.
:09:41. > :09:42.
:09:42. > :09:46.Stephen Farry was sacked and he was a good minister to. We were
:09:46. > :09:50.supposed to have a robust action plan by the end of last year. There
:09:50. > :09:54.is no sign of that and we understand there are working party
:09:55. > :09:59.stuck in negotiations, absolutely going nowhere, do you feel were led
:09:59. > :10:06.up the garden path? We will have to see. You can be sure that what I
:10:06. > :10:10.have been doing has been to do a considerable amount of work on
:10:10. > :10:13.advancing the cohesive sharing strategy. We now have in the
:10:13. > :10:17.Programme for Government specific commitments about building
:10:17. > :10:22.relationships that will enable people to feel it be known. -- no
:10:22. > :10:26.longer need peace walls. That is a significant step forward. You will
:10:26. > :10:32.be you will be launching a report that we show that five balls have
:10:32. > :10:36.been built since 2008. I will be scene tomorrow that since I came
:10:36. > :10:41.into office as Minister of Justice, there has not been any building of
:10:41. > :10:47.new walls. There has not been any increase in in height, there has
:10:47. > :10:54.not been any enhancement. Whatever work has been done since 2008, was
:10:54. > :10:58.done between 2008 and 2010. there was work done in the context
:10:58. > :11:02.of direct rule ministers before I came into office. I have
:11:02. > :11:09.specifically refused to extend peace walls and you have seen,
:11:09. > :11:17.under my watch, but we have seen at gate open in Alexandra Park and you
:11:17. > :11:24.have reported yourself... More have gone up since 2008. It isn't my
:11:24. > :11:31.reports. It isn't on my watch. You have reported DUP in the last three
:11:31. > :11:35.years, there had been at least five new walls. In the 21 months that I
:11:35. > :11:38.have had responsibility, the work that has been done has been about
:11:38. > :11:42.building relationships, opening barriers and about getting away
:11:42. > :11:52.with that concept. Except that that is the reality of the current
:11:52. > :11:53.
:11:53. > :11:58.position. David Ford says he does not do hops,
:11:58. > :12:02.so his threat to walk out of the Executive is puff. Let us ignore
:12:02. > :12:05.the fact that alliance is only losing and ministry to undo the
:12:06. > :12:09.extra ministry again through the last six. Let us also glide over
:12:09. > :12:13.the fact that it brings the Executive more into line with the
:12:13. > :12:16.Good Friday Agreement, delivered at properly represent a mix of
:12:16. > :12:20.ministers and as cross-community and legislative backing. Let us
:12:20. > :12:24.ignore all that, because Mr Ford isn't actually complaining about it,
:12:24. > :12:28.but not much anyway. He is complaining that the structure of
:12:28. > :12:32.the Stormont Department has not been reformed in one go, preferably
:12:32. > :12:36.down to alliances favoured number of eight. Scrapping only one, which
:12:36. > :12:41.happens to have an Alliance Party minister, looks malicious, reckons
:12:41. > :12:45.Mr Ford. He isn't alone. The SDLP as puffed something similar with
:12:45. > :12:49.Alex Attwood calling it a missed opportunity to rearrange all the
:12:49. > :12:54.departments and fix the policing and just meant -- justice fudge.
:12:54. > :12:58.Net so says it should only have been abolished in terms of an
:12:58. > :13:01.independent review. What we have here is the old peace process
:13:01. > :13:07.principle of nothing is agrees until everything is agreed. However,
:13:07. > :13:09.as we saw in the peace process -- says that men of the was agreed for
:13:09. > :13:14.years. A green nothing until you have agreed everything is all very
:13:14. > :13:17.well when you are a green a grand political settlement, but anything
:13:17. > :13:20.else is asking for deadlock. This is especially true with
:13:20. > :13:23.administrative reform as we have seen that the plan for reducing the
:13:23. > :13:26.number of councils. Trying to reduce the number of Stormont
:13:26. > :13:31.departments are ones would be no different. It is far better to go
:13:31. > :13:36.step by step and the absurdity of Mr for's complaint is that he is
:13:36. > :13:42.objecting to with a step towards his own goal. Alliance says it
:13:42. > :13:45.wants... That is the point, the only go part way and other parts of
:13:46. > :13:49.the administrative jigsaw can be added later. It is bizarre to see
:13:49. > :13:52.this peace process mindset of nothing about everything carried
:13:52. > :13:57.over into the mundane business of everyday government, even to the
:13:57. > :14:02.extent of a party led the Lions party attempting to play a crisis
:14:02. > :14:05.in the peace process card. The all- party coalition encourages this,
:14:05. > :14:09.but there is unfinished business hanging over the department will
:14:09. > :14:15.issue. Does David Ford really think he can huff and puff and blow the
:14:16. > :14:18.house down? He may be making a fuss for internal consumption. Stephen
:14:18. > :14:22.Farry has been sacrificed to keep Kent in the justice ministry. How
:14:22. > :14:27.does he think this perfection of petulance plays with Alliance
:14:27. > :14:32.voters. It is good to see Stormont or at least Sinn Fein and the DUP
:14:32. > :14:35.realise that something can be agreed. Politics is the art of the
:14:35. > :14:40.possible and instalment of all places, a small step will always be
:14:40. > :14:50.more possible than a giant leap. The Alliance Party says it is in
:14:50. > :14:57.
:14:57. > :15:00.the Assembly to bring this The thoughts of Newton Emerson..
:15:00. > :15:03.While the political parties are having a hard time coming up with
:15:03. > :15:07.an agreed way on dealing with the past, some people are just getting
:15:07. > :15:08.on with it. Julia Paul begins her report at a school where pupils are
:15:08. > :15:16.learning about citizenship...from former paramilitary prisoners.
:15:17. > :15:21.While the political parties are Teachers introduce former
:15:21. > :15:25.parliamentary prisoners. They're not feel a sense of remorse? They
:15:25. > :15:31.may know why have done bad things to them. These men were the same
:15:31. > :15:35.age as these young people when they became involved in the conflict.
:15:35. > :15:42.you could sit down with one of your victims with all cameras of, what
:15:42. > :15:48.we do say to them? If you worked for me, and it does not matter what
:15:48. > :15:52.context, and you do not feel sorry, there is something wrong with you.
:15:52. > :15:59.If you could, would you go back to when you join the parlour minuted
:15:59. > :16:02.grip and change that decision? -- paramilitary group.
:16:02. > :16:05.Some are the fathers themselves. They believe that telling these
:16:05. > :16:11.young people about their experiences as a way of making sure
:16:11. > :16:15.that history is not repeating itself. I think if we ignore at our
:16:15. > :16:20.past, there is a tendency to come back to haunt us. The whole purpose
:16:20. > :16:25.of this project and the key principle is not to glorify it
:16:25. > :16:33.armed conflict or to justify it. This is what helps us get through
:16:33. > :16:37.to young people. We're going out and telling people about this. Even
:16:37. > :16:42.former enemies, basically hating each other, going out there and
:16:42. > :16:46.killing and hurting each other, now we are not. This project, from
:16:46. > :16:49.prison to peace, is a joint initiative between the Community
:16:49. > :16:53.Foundation of Northern Ireland and the School of Education at Queen's
:16:53. > :16:58.University. Queen's believes the project gives pupils a different
:16:58. > :17:03.perspective on the conflict. There are opportunities for them to learn
:17:03. > :17:08.about the history but it is quite a sanitised and top down narrative
:17:08. > :17:15.that the 11, often in history. What this gives is another perspective
:17:15. > :17:19.on that, another complex understanding of the conflict.
:17:19. > :17:24.think it is really beneficial to here their views of what the
:17:24. > :17:27.Troubles were like rather than just what we hear from books. Although
:17:27. > :17:33.we share lives with people of different backgrounds, at least we
:17:34. > :17:38.get to come and see what part of our history was. It is good to hear
:17:38. > :17:48.from both sides of it so it is beneficial for me, so whenever I go
:17:48. > :17:48.
:17:48. > :17:52.home, I can think. I am against paramilitaries. Taking ex-prisoners
:17:52. > :17:56.and to schools and even using the experience is to teach young people
:17:56. > :18:02.is clearly controversial. The Community Foundation says the time
:18:02. > :18:07.is right. Given that there has not been an effective system to address
:18:07. > :18:12.the issues of the past, we have to start taking baby step somewhere to
:18:12. > :18:16.try to create the atmosphere where people can start to ask questions.
:18:16. > :18:20.You might expect this integrated school to embrace the project but
:18:20. > :18:26.how many other schools, and in particular single denomination
:18:26. > :18:29.institutions, have taken this up? You're talking about a dozen
:18:29. > :18:33.schools and total actively engaging in the programme at the moment. The
:18:33. > :18:38.programme is really only now being run out in schools because last
:18:38. > :18:41.year was primarily about training. Teaching new generations of young
:18:41. > :18:48.people about the conflict is of course one way of dealing with the
:18:48. > :18:53.past. What about the people who lived through it? At the group,
:18:53. > :18:56.healing through remembering, they have come up with another idea, of
:18:56. > :18:59.an exhibition of objects relating to the Troubles which will visit
:18:59. > :19:04.different areas within the community to bring people they
:19:04. > :19:09.gather to talk. They have given us a loan of the
:19:09. > :19:14.items and we have arranged them here. Postcards, prison art, and of
:19:14. > :19:23.course, the iconic been led. Things that where a very day that a
:19:23. > :19:27.different because of the conflict. -- bin lid. When we were looking at
:19:27. > :19:32.the idea of a museum and the difficulties over whether there
:19:32. > :19:37.should be a museum, we carried out an audit. We did this in tandem
:19:38. > :19:43.with Queen's University and we discover 79 collections was over to
:19:43. > :19:50.London 50,000 items. The museum already exists - it is just that we
:19:50. > :19:54.do not have access to it. How do these items help people? It is
:19:54. > :19:58.interesting because for people who were there and remember it, the
:19:58. > :20:03.immediate we look at it and talk about stories and incidents and how
:20:03. > :20:07.different things are. For the generation after coming along, it
:20:07. > :20:13.does not mean anything. The understand an everyday item like a
:20:13. > :20:20.bus ticket and can see why it is different. It gives everybody a
:20:20. > :20:22.basis from which to begin the discussion. You can see ordinary
:20:22. > :20:26.people from all walks of life beginning to discuss and debate
:20:26. > :20:32.this issue and once again, the community are ahead of the
:20:32. > :20:39.politicians when it comes to this. The former or peer P M la Don
:20:39. > :20:44.Purvis is the chair of it. They need to talk the community and
:20:44. > :20:48.listen to the community. The best the 10th that was made was through
:20:48. > :20:58.the Consultative Group for the past and their report. We need to get it
:20:58. > :20:59.
:20:59. > :21:02.out. We need to start again and say, how do we deal with this?
:21:02. > :21:05.The Ulster Unionist leader Tom Elliott didn't mince his words in
:21:05. > :21:08.his contribution to the debate on Scottish independence. He said it
:21:08. > :21:11.was a bigger threat than the IRA was to the Union. He's here to
:21:11. > :21:16.defend that position, and we're joined from Westminster by the
:21:16. > :21:24.Scottish Nationalist MP Angus Brendan MacNeil. Harsh words, many
:21:24. > :21:27.would say. Do you stand by them? need to recognise that I recognise
:21:27. > :21:33.that Alex Salmond was bringing forward these proposals and a
:21:33. > :21:38.peaceful and democratic manner. I accept that. At this present time,
:21:38. > :21:43.I see those proposals as a bigger threat to the union than the IRA as
:21:43. > :21:47.at present. I suppose one of the points Tom Elliott made was asking
:21:48. > :21:52.you to look at the sacrifices, as he would put it, that Unionists
:21:52. > :21:56.went through through 30 years have I any violence to maintain the
:21:56. > :22:04.Union. It gives you some idea of how valuable it is to them? Up I
:22:04. > :22:09.want to move away from that sort of rhetoric. We are a peaceful civic
:22:09. > :22:15.movement and to add up Alex Salmond and the eye area in one breath is
:22:15. > :22:20.ludicrous. I was encouraged by the moderation of Mr Elliott's earlier
:22:20. > :22:24.tone. What we're talking about is moving powers from Westminster to
:22:24. > :22:30.Holyrood. Making Scotland a country like nor where Denmark that can
:22:30. > :22:34.take part in the world. In the last 60 years, 140 other states have
:22:34. > :22:37.joined the United Nations and Scotland should be one of them.
:22:37. > :22:43.say it is the job but Unionists to articulate the case for keeping the
:22:43. > :22:46.unions. Here you are, persuade him. I think he will be well aware of
:22:46. > :22:51.mind and many other Unionists concerns about the break-up of the
:22:51. > :22:56.Union. I think we do well as part of the family of the United Kingdom.
:22:56. > :23:01.We met up a good family. We have a lot to offer and Scotland has a lot
:23:01. > :23:08.to offer the union as does Northern Ireland. I think together, we can
:23:08. > :23:14.be a much more prosperous society. I have to say, I think if you look
:23:14. > :23:20.at the figures, it costs the UK Exchequer �1,600 per person for
:23:20. > :23:24.every man, woman and child in Scotland. I have to ask, which
:23:24. > :23:34.union is he talking about? And I am not clear which she is talking
:23:34. > :23:34.
:23:34. > :23:38.about. From which here? We are within the United Kingdom that
:23:39. > :23:47.works well within the European Union. I think Scotland has a lot
:23:47. > :23:53.to offer full stop which union? general terms, everyone acceded to
:23:54. > :23:58.the union in different centuries. Let us take it from 2012. There was
:23:58. > :24:02.the Union of 17 07 between Scotland and England. We will be ending that
:24:02. > :24:07.union when the move powers from Westminster to Holyrood. The union
:24:07. > :24:09.of 16 or three of the crowns, we will be keeping that union and the
:24:09. > :24:15.Queen of the remaining head of state in Scotland as he does
:24:15. > :24:20.elsewhere. From the 16 of the perspective, I am a unionist.
:24:20. > :24:25.cannot be a unionist if you want to divide the unions. I want to retain
:24:25. > :24:29.the union of the crowns. Per Scotland has a huge questions to
:24:29. > :24:33.answer and I have not heard any of them. What will they do with the
:24:33. > :24:36.EU? Will they keep the pound sterling. There are a lot of
:24:36. > :24:46.questions and I think they are a much more viable entity as the
:24:46. > :24:46.
:24:46. > :24:51.United Kingdom. There are multiple unions and I would like him to say
:24:51. > :24:56.which he means. If he is a unionist, he must be speaking of one union at
:24:56. > :25:00.some point in time and I think that should be established. I think it's
:25:00. > :25:06.quite clear, I do not know what that the union is about -- argument
:25:06. > :25:10.is about. We are speaking of the union that has operated in the
:25:10. > :25:15.European Union for the last couple of decades. It is the Union of
:25:15. > :25:19.today. We are speaking about it since the accession to the European
:25:19. > :25:24.Union in the 1970s. You're splitting hairs. We all know what
:25:25. > :25:28.we're talking about. I am a unionist in 16 or three terms but
:25:28. > :25:35.not and 70 No 7 terms and they want to establish what end of Unionist
:25:35. > :25:45.he is full stop shall we use the 17 07 their permission? You want a
:25:45. > :25:46.
:25:46. > :25:49.breakaway from political control from London. It is quite simple.
:25:49. > :25:54.You have been criticised from the Republic is well with people saying
:25:54. > :25:58.that for all its problems, it it is a much better place to be than
:25:59. > :26:03.Northern Ireland. I do not accept that and I have to say that if you
:26:03. > :26:07.look at the last century, large numbers migrated from the Republic
:26:07. > :26:11.because there was not the work or the opportunities there for them
:26:11. > :26:14.that there is in the United Kingdom. Many of them migrated to many of
:26:15. > :26:19.the cities in the United Kingdom and some of them in Scotland. I
:26:19. > :26:22.think they have gone for better opportunities. I do not want
:26:22. > :26:25.Scotland to become a small independent state that is reliant
:26:25. > :26:33.and has to export their young people instead of holding on to
:26:33. > :26:37.them. Is that what you're offering? We do not have to be ruled from the
:26:37. > :26:40.house at number three on the state. We can all govern ourselves with an
:26:40. > :26:44.our own houses and get on well with their neighbours and that is what
:26:44. > :26:47.will happen. The Republic of Ireland is one example and I would
:26:47. > :26:51.argue that the Republic of Ireland would be far smaller today had it
:26:51. > :26:57.stayed in the unions. Their successful countries like Norway
:26:57. > :27:01.with a smaller population than Scotland and a similar geography.
:27:01. > :27:05.In the world league, it is number one of everything including GT pipa
:27:05. > :27:08.cap above. The Republic of Ireland as high up in those terms than
:27:08. > :27:13.United Kingdom. We can stay together as a family in much the
:27:13. > :27:19.same way that the Scandinavian countries did. They are known as
:27:19. > :27:24.the Scandinavian Mafia. They represent 25 million people and
:27:24. > :27:29.work together. Rather than looking for fears, I think he should be
:27:29. > :27:32.looking for the opportunities of friendliness and reaching out.
:27:32. > :27:41.do you understand why you're striving for independence makes him
:27:41. > :27:44.so nervous? Politics in Northern Ireland might be about totems and
:27:44. > :27:48.we're a bit practical and sensible stuff and we are renowned for being
:27:48. > :27:53.like that as a people. That is why we are moving towards independence,
:27:53. > :27:59.on that basis of sense and practicality. It would be good for
:27:59. > :28:04.not just this generation but generations become. The nearly done.
:28:04. > :28:09.I must ask about your press assessor, David Trimble, who says
:28:09. > :28:13.you acted stupidly in turning down a merger with the Tories. He is a
:28:13. > :28:19.member of the Tory party now and is entitled to his views. I do not
:28:19. > :28:24.agree with him and I think my party would totally back me in not
:28:24. > :28:28.disbanding the Ulster Unionists. The opportunity to take over the
:28:28. > :28:32.Tories. What I said was I am not disbanding the Ulster Unionist
:28:32. > :28:36.Party and that is what I was asked to do. You would rather he kept his
:28:36. > :28:41.nose out of it? It is his decision and he is now a member of the
:28:41. > :28:46.Conservative Party so he is entitled to his opinion.
:28:46. > :28:56.Thank you both. We must leave it there. Back next week at the usual
:28:56. > :29:01.
:29:01. > :29:07.Some carry on this week. Even in recession, ways to make money.
:29:07. > :29:17.Teachers are being bribed, sorry, paid to leave early. They have been
:29:17. > :29:18.