:00:25. > :00:28.Hello and welcome to the programme. Coming up this week - the good, the
:00:28. > :00:33.bad and the ugly - the Finance Minister gives us his thoughts on
:00:33. > :00:36.how Northern Ireland emerges from the Budget. And, as the UUP
:00:36. > :00:43.prepares to elect a new leader, we ask John McCallister what makes him
:00:43. > :00:45.so special. Not a disaster certainly, but not a triumph either.
:00:45. > :00:47.After yesterday's Budget, our politicians have been lambasting
:00:47. > :00:53.the Chancellor over fuel duty, public pay differentials and the
:00:53. > :00:56.granny tax, but are they doing all they can to improve the economy?
:00:56. > :00:59.After all, devolution is supposed to be about local decision taking
:00:59. > :01:08.for the benefit of local people. In a moment I'll be talking to the
:01:08. > :01:18.Finance Minister Sammy Wilson, but first, Julia Paul. Can I help you
:01:18. > :01:22.at all? Well, yes, I was wondering how much this was. What are you
:01:22. > :01:26.doing? Don't touch the things. This is a local shop for local people.
:01:26. > :01:30.There's nothing for you here. this is hour local shop. People
:01:30. > :01:34.here at the sharp end of the decisions made by central
:01:34. > :01:40.Government and it's no joke. Wasn't devolution supposed to help with
:01:40. > :01:44.that? Well, with so much bad economic news around, many people
:01:44. > :01:48.are looking to their local politicians to try and help the
:01:48. > :01:52.idea of devolution was that if local politicians took decisions
:01:52. > :01:57.locally about the way money was spent, ideally those decisions
:01:57. > :02:01.should be better informed. But realistically speaking, with a
:02:01. > :02:08.worldwide recession, and no tax- raising powers at Stormont, is
:02:08. > :02:13.there actually very much the Northern Ireland Assembly can do?
:02:13. > :02:17.think there are many things they could do and they need to be much
:02:17. > :02:22.more imaginative. We have our own expenditure and we can decide how
:02:22. > :02:27.to spend certain monies and that's not covered by the same constraints
:02:27. > :02:31.as money coming from the Treasury. At the moment we have a glorified
:02:31. > :02:39.County Council. It barely ledge slates. It can't take any dramatic
:02:39. > :02:43.decisions on welfare or taxation. This week, all eyes have been on
:02:43. > :02:46.the Chancellor. The Budget has had mixed reviews here. An extra three
:02:46. > :02:51.pence on fuel and 37 pence on a packet of cigarettes haven't gone
:02:51. > :02:56.down well. The limited reductions in corporation tax have been
:02:56. > :03:00.welcomed by the business community. We approached three commentators,
:03:00. > :03:05.all with experience of number crunching around social policy, to
:03:05. > :03:09.ask them is there more the assembly could be doing? At the Law Centre
:03:09. > :03:13.in Northern Ireland in Belfast, director Des is delivering a
:03:13. > :03:19.training course. This centre works to advance social welfare rights,
:03:19. > :03:22.which means staff see the people at the sharp end of cuts. We know it
:03:22. > :03:26.will take longer for Northern Ireland to come out of the
:03:26. > :03:29.recession than the rest of the UK. That means in terms of our
:03:29. > :03:32.unemployment rates, not just in terms of the official statistics,
:03:32. > :03:37.but also those people who are looking for work, not included in
:03:37. > :03:43.the statistics, we are pretty much at the top of the league table and
:03:43. > :03:47.it will take us longer to get out. The assembly needs to recognise the
:03:47. > :03:51.extent of the cuts and manage those, using money they do have access to,
:03:51. > :03:56.for Les. I would say let's have a social protection fund operating
:03:56. > :04:00.alongside a social investment fund and recognise that both social
:04:00. > :04:04.security and the economy are two key pillars about how we deal with
:04:04. > :04:10.the future of people here. That would be my first ask, if you like.
:04:10. > :04:14.I think secondly, we need to look at how we ensure that jobs are
:04:14. > :04:17.created are sustained. I think thirdly, Sammy Wilson and others
:04:17. > :04:21.need to go out to bat for Northern Ireland and say that some of the
:04:21. > :04:25.things done in Britain don't actually work in Northern Ireland.
:04:25. > :04:31.At Queen's University versity the green shoots of spring are evident.
:04:31. > :04:34.But a leading academic says for many people here life is not
:04:34. > :04:38.improving. We need to think about how we can create a much fairer
:04:39. > :04:43.society in Northern Ireland. If you look at the last executive then we
:04:43. > :04:47.saw resources being redistributed from the less well off to the
:04:47. > :04:53.better off. There were a number of different policies. For example,
:04:53. > :04:58.prescription charges. The abolition of those was a clear redistribution,
:04:58. > :05:03.because the bottom 10% spent five pence a week and the top 10% spend
:05:03. > :05:12.over 50 pence, so by abolishing charges that's redistributed from
:05:12. > :05:16.the poor to the better off. professor here has advised OMFDMM
:05:16. > :05:19.on social policy and he says the executive needs to think about
:05:19. > :05:25.water charges. We have to take the purchase of water and funding of
:05:25. > :05:29.water out from the overall budget, which means there is less money to
:05:29. > :05:33.spend on schools and hospitals. That's a considerable sum. We are
:05:33. > :05:38.paying Northern Ireland Water somewhere around �260 million a
:05:38. > :05:42.year for the provision of water. There are other costs involved with
:05:42. > :05:47.that. We are paying far too much for water as a society. It's high
:05:47. > :05:51.time the politicians looked very seriously at that. Commentator
:05:51. > :05:55.Newton has finished writing his weekly column. He agrees the
:05:55. > :06:00.assembly is constrained by Westminster rules. But he's
:06:00. > :06:05.challenging the executive to do something about those. There are a
:06:05. > :06:09.surprising number of technical rules, restricting Stormont to save
:06:09. > :06:12.money and switching it from investment to spending and there
:06:12. > :06:18.are restrictions on the welfare bunget for example, but the rules
:06:18. > :06:21.are open for negotiation. Peter Robinson was offered a deal by
:06:21. > :06:25.Gordon Brown four years ago, to reform all the rules in a deal over
:06:26. > :06:30.corporation tax so Stormont could have saved money and invested and
:06:30. > :06:35.saved and carried money over year to year. He says the Scottish
:06:35. > :06:38.Parliament has managed to change the rules, so why can't we?
:06:38. > :06:41.Sammy Wilson and Martin McGuinness were to go to London and say, "We
:06:41. > :06:44.can help you deliver your policies if you help us to mitigate their
:06:44. > :06:47.effects." Windows of opportunity have been opened in the past.
:06:47. > :06:52.They'll open again on welfare reform, on corporation tax and so
:06:52. > :06:56.on. They need to seize them, but the question is - are we prepared
:06:56. > :06:59.to switch our politics from the bun fight it's been in the past to a
:06:59. > :07:06.very dry, sort of procedural politics, negotiating the
:07:06. > :07:11.technicalities of accounting rules? For those caught in the poverty
:07:11. > :07:14.trap help can't come soon enough. The finance minister is with me now.
:07:14. > :07:18.The Secretary of State says this is a tremendous Budget for Northern
:07:18. > :07:21.Ireland and told the politicians to stop going on about it. Do you see
:07:21. > :07:24.the point? I don't think he can describe anything that has been
:07:24. > :07:29.said as whinging, but what we have done is try to make an honest
:07:29. > :07:32.decision. That was my word. He says the responses have been pathetic.
:07:32. > :07:38.We have tried to make an honest assessment. Yesterday I accepted in
:07:38. > :07:43.the House that the Finance Bill, including the devolution of air
:07:43. > :07:46.passenger duty and the help for the film industry and Belfast being
:07:46. > :07:49.recorded as one of the broadband cities are all very welcome
:07:49. > :07:53.interventions and will help to improve the economy here. However,
:07:53. > :07:59.I believe that the Chancellor made a number of wrong choices yesterday.
:08:00. > :08:09.Why he needs to give a tax break of 3,000 million to the top two% of
:08:09. > :08:15.people. -- 2% of people. It doesn't affect many people here? No, but he
:08:15. > :08:19.could have used the resource more effectively. Including bringing the
:08:20. > :08:24.low-income people out of tax all together. He could have raised it
:08:24. > :08:27.to �10,000. That is not a huge amount of money. It will get there
:08:27. > :08:31.eventually, because that is the Liberal Democrats' desire. Yes, but
:08:31. > :08:37.at a time when that end of the income spectrum is really being
:08:37. > :08:43.squeezed that would be a much better way, to me, of spending
:08:43. > :08:46.3,000 million. 600,000 people in Northern Ireland will Ben in the
:08:46. > :08:50.from that? I'm not saying that that's not bad, all I'm saying is
:08:50. > :08:54.that given the choices that the Chancellor had to make, I think
:08:54. > :09:01.it's a very bizarre choice for him to say that for people who are
:09:01. > :09:06.earning over �150,000, 2% of the population, they should get a tax
:09:06. > :09:11.break of 3,000 million. He says he will claim it back in other ways.
:09:11. > :09:15.He hopes he will. He hopes for example that tax exiles will come
:09:15. > :09:21.from all around the world and flood the shores of Britain and beat down
:09:21. > :09:28.the doors of the HMRC and say, "Please take our tax off us." If he
:09:28. > :09:33.has that wrong it's very costly. I'm keen to limit the discussion to
:09:33. > :09:37.how it affects Northern Ireland. think in some ways it affects
:09:37. > :09:41.Northern Ireland in a positive way. There are things which I believe if
:09:41. > :09:46.he's going to give money and to relax some spending, then I would
:09:46. > :09:49.have rather seen he was directing that towards fuel duty. That he
:09:49. > :09:53.wouldn't have intervened in the way he has with pensions, that he would
:09:53. > :09:55.have looked at how he could have spent some more money on
:09:55. > :10:01.infrastructure and capital investment, which of course would
:10:01. > :10:03.have given us the potential for longer-term growth and enabled us
:10:03. > :10:08.to attract further investment into Northern Ireland. Those are the
:10:08. > :10:11.kinds of things which I this I would have perhaps contribute today
:10:11. > :10:16.economic growth, rather than giving a huge amount of money to people
:10:16. > :10:21.who by and large will probably save it, because they are already well
:10:21. > :10:27.off. You have talked about the pernicious attempt to introduce a
:10:27. > :10:31.public pay differential. Suerl it will happen. -- surely it will
:10:31. > :10:36.happen? I've heard the Secretary of State yesterday saying that if we
:10:36. > :10:39.had lower public sector pay here we could attract jobs from London. We
:10:39. > :10:45.already have a differential between London and the public sector in
:10:45. > :10:52.Northern Ireland of 22%. There's already a difference there. That's
:10:52. > :10:56.because there is a London weighting. I have intervened as the finance
:10:56. > :11:01.minister, because we have stopped bonuses which are non-contractual
:11:01. > :11:05.to public sector employees, because that's one of the ways we could
:11:05. > :11:12.free up money. There is the difference between the private and
:11:12. > :11:17.public in Northern Irelandment -- Northern Ireland. 24% to 27%
:11:17. > :11:20.between the two? That's right, Noel, had I been sitting here four years
:11:20. > :11:24.ago I would have been telling a different story, because at that
:11:24. > :11:29.stage the difference between the private sector and the public
:11:29. > :11:32.sector in the middle of the boom was that the public sector found it
:11:32. > :11:35.very difficult to recruit some people. When I was Environment
:11:35. > :11:39.Minister we were losing planning officers hand over fist to the
:11:39. > :11:44.private sector. At that stage the Health Service were having to pay a
:11:44. > :11:50.premium to people who worked in technical grades. Now is now. Now,
:11:50. > :11:55.- All I'm saying, this is swings and round abouts and to say that's
:11:55. > :12:01.-- there is a problem, there is not a prerm nant problem. If you want
:12:01. > :12:05.to stim -- permanent problem. If you want to stimulate jobs then -
:12:05. > :12:09.You are making the assumption that the private sector is finding it
:12:09. > :12:13.impossible to recruit, but it's not true. In fact, the public sector
:12:13. > :12:18.isn't even competing with the private sector, because we are not
:12:18. > :12:22.recruiting anyone. The private sector is not saying that it cannot
:12:22. > :12:28.get work. There are 67,000 people unemployed in Northern Ireland at
:12:28. > :12:32.present. The public sector is not recruiting, so how anyone could say
:12:32. > :12:36.that the difference that there is in wages at the moment is impinging
:12:36. > :12:41.upon the ability of the private sector to grow. If logic that's the
:12:41. > :12:45.way it works. That might be the case. In practice it's not the case.
:12:45. > :12:49.I suspect that this policy, which the Government at Westminster is
:12:49. > :12:54.driving, is more about how do they cut public sector spending and how
:12:54. > :12:57.and this is the important thing, how do they take money from regions
:12:57. > :13:01.and it's not just Northern Ireland, this includes most of England as
:13:01. > :13:05.well, outside London and the south- east of England, how do they take
:13:05. > :13:09.money from areas who are already struggling to keep up with the
:13:09. > :13:12.average UK growth and if they take that money out, then they'll
:13:12. > :13:17.deflate the places like Northern Ireland even further, causing more
:13:17. > :13:21.unemployment and making it difficult for the private sector to
:13:21. > :13:31.grow? Perhaps Tom Elliott really was an inspirational UUP leader and
:13:31. > :13:39.
:13:39. > :13:49.not the grey man he was painted in That is not true. The Executive
:13:49. > :13:53.
:13:53. > :14:01.were offered a poisoned chalice. You can be sure that once the wages
:14:01. > :14:09.had been negotiated downwards, the Treasury would have said... And it
:14:09. > :14:17.is all about negotiation though. We already know the direction the
:14:17. > :14:22.Treasury will go. When you want to add your own level of corporation
:14:22. > :14:29.tax, you will pay for it. We were quite right in turning the offer
:14:29. > :14:35.down at that stage. But what I have said, if we had the ability to do
:14:35. > :14:40.things like that, or we would have made differences. We have already
:14:40. > :14:46.made differences in public sector pay in Northern Ireland. Big
:14:46. > :14:51.bonuses have been stopped so that the money can be diverted into
:14:51. > :14:55.other public services. When are you find the going to say it, or we are
:14:55. > :14:58.going to have to do this? attitude all along has been that in
:14:58. > :15:02.the middle of a recession when people are struggling to pay their
:15:02. > :15:09.bills, I will not dip further into their pockets if I believe there
:15:09. > :15:19.are ways in which money can be saved. We could have put up water
:15:19. > :15:29.charges in the Budget... Up and may be served -- and may be saved 500
:15:29. > :15:39.nursing jobs. We did say we wanted government departments to make
:15:39. > :15:39.
:15:39. > :15:45.savings. Administrative costs in Northern Ireland in the past year
:15:45. > :15:50.have fallen by 3.8 %. That is more than any other part of the United
:15:50. > :15:54.Kingdom, as far as I am aware. We have bought our consultancy build
:15:54. > :16:01.dams. That is the first priority of a finance minister. Make the best
:16:01. > :16:06.use of the money you have at the moment. When you have made the best
:16:06. > :16:10.use and achieve some efficiencies, if hard decisions need to be made
:16:10. > :16:17.over extra revenue, only then can you have justification to go to
:16:17. > :16:22.people and say you will have to pay more for your services. Minister,
:16:22. > :16:26.Thank you. Perhaps Tom Elliott really was an
:16:26. > :16:28.inspirational UUP leader and not the grey man he was painted in the
:16:28. > :16:31.media. That is the impression given by John McCallister and Mike
:16:31. > :16:34.Nesbitt, who are contending to replace him. Both cling to his
:16:34. > :16:38.memory like a lucky rabbit's foot as they go into battle promising
:16:38. > :16:41.change. Mike Nesbitt has been canvassing heavily in Tom Elliott's
:16:41. > :16:47.Fermanagh stomping ground and is pictured in the Impartial Reporter
:16:47. > :16:49.having his papers signed by Sam Foster, a veteran Elliotista.
:16:49. > :16:55.Nesbitt even received a discreet endorsement from Mr Elliott,
:16:55. > :17:01.tweeted via the Impartial's redoubtable Rodney Edwards. In the
:17:01. > :17:04.other corner John McCallister shot from the hip for Mr Elliott. If
:17:04. > :17:08.elected, he promised to expel David McNarry from the UUP for dissing
:17:08. > :17:13.Tom on radio. Never mind that the leader has no power to expel
:17:13. > :17:15.members. He had nailed his colours to the mast and been noticed. John
:17:15. > :17:21.McCallister even invoked Mr Elliott's name to prove that
:17:21. > :17:25.McNarry's plans for pacts with the DUP would be doomed. Pacts didn't
:17:25. > :17:28.work in Fermanagh. Tom Elliott gave me the figures, he argued. With all
:17:28. > :17:34.this praise it is a wonder that nobody has asked Tom Elliott to
:17:34. > :17:38.stay on. It seems a case of, "We really hate to lose you, but we
:17:38. > :17:42.think you have to go." Or could it be more about Fermanagh than Tom
:17:42. > :17:47.Elliott? It is a very efficient area of organisation with an
:17:47. > :17:52.estimated 600 party members. That dwarfs the 17 other constituency
:17:52. > :17:55.associations - they have an average of 70 each. Tom Elliott stood
:17:55. > :18:03.taller against Basil McCrea atop that huge mound of Fermanagh votes
:18:03. > :18:06.last time around. No wonder John and Mike want to climb on board. So
:18:06. > :18:10.far Mike Nesbitt is the favourite and is undoubtedly more polished,
:18:10. > :18:15.but McCallister has managed to set the agenda. He pledged to take the
:18:15. > :18:20.party into opposition - something he can actually deliver. Nesbitt
:18:20. > :18:22.responded by proposing a referendum on the issue. This kite was
:18:22. > :18:29.promptly shot down by Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness,
:18:29. > :18:32.round one to John McCallister. So how will it play in Fermanagh? It
:18:32. > :18:39.could give lessons to other areas in how to organise. Will Mike
:18:39. > :18:43.Nesbitt seem too slick? Or is John McCallister too rash? Over a
:18:43. > :18:48.century ago Randolph Churchill said the Orange card was the best one to
:18:48. > :18:52.play. Now for the first time, none of the UUP leadership contenders
:18:52. > :18:55.are Orangemen. Instead two east of the Bann candidates hope to play
:18:55. > :18:59.the Fermanagh card. But will Fermanagh turn out for either
:18:59. > :19:02.candidate? Or will apathy rule? Each will be hoping, like Churchill
:19:02. > :19:12.with his Orange card, that their pitch turns out to be "the ace of
:19:12. > :19:19.
:19:19. > :19:24.John MacCallister is with me now. The first question is why? Why
:19:24. > :19:30.would anyone want to lead a party that appears to be in terminal
:19:30. > :19:35.decline? Do not be so negative. But party has had a few difficulties,
:19:35. > :19:41.but it is a clear choice to make for the party and where I would
:19:41. > :19:45.like to see the party go is obviously forming an opposition for
:19:45. > :19:53.the good of the party and Northern Ireland. I want to see are setting
:19:53. > :20:03.a distinct agenda and rebuild our connection with voters. Why is
:20:03. > :20:07.
:20:07. > :20:16.going into opposition go for the party? Your phrase and questioned
:20:16. > :20:20.and question -- and question is key. We have to move away from the
:20:20. > :20:26.cistern that guarantees everyone has a seat in the government at
:20:26. > :20:31.some point. That might be good for the Assembly, but how is it good
:20:31. > :20:35.for the Ulster Unionists? It gives us a chance to break away from
:20:35. > :20:40.Executive policies, some of which we don't believe in and we are not
:20:40. > :20:50.supportive of. We are tied in BO because there is a member on the
:20:50. > :20:50.
:20:50. > :20:57.Executive. Martin McGuinness and Peter Robinson may have voted. It
:20:57. > :21:02.gives you a chance to rebrand and make things more distinct. But you
:21:02. > :21:08.will be keeping your committee chairs and vice chairs? Of course.
:21:08. > :21:16.Say you are still part of it? is an Executive branch of
:21:16. > :21:24.government and the other is legislative. We would keep hour
:21:24. > :21:30.committee plays. That is what passes for a position at the moment.
:21:30. > :21:40.I am sake let us build on that and use their structures much better.
:21:40. > :21:45.We need to set a distinct agenda. We need to scrutinise and provide
:21:45. > :21:55.people with an alternative at the next election. We do not have that.
:21:55. > :21:59.
:21:59. > :22:07.You as a voter few hours of this programme have no way of changing
:22:07. > :22:16.the government. -- view as a voter and viewers of this programme.
:22:16. > :22:26.it be the final step into the dark for the UUP? A lot of commentators
:22:26. > :22:26.
:22:26. > :22:36.think so. Opposition is not going to be easy. MLAs will have to work
:22:36. > :22:43.very hard and we need to look at our policies. We need to move to
:22:43. > :22:53.normalise things. Do you have enough people of Canada to act as a
:22:53. > :23:05.
:23:05. > :23:13.shadow ministers? -- enough people of Canada. We have enough people. I
:23:13. > :23:23.used saying we don't? People like Daniel Kennedy had seen things from
:23:23. > :23:24.
:23:24. > :23:33.both sides. There is plenty of talent. Across the board we do have
:23:33. > :23:38.people. So would you give Mike Nesbitt a job, even though you have
:23:38. > :23:43.called him policy light and inexperience? What I want with Mike
:23:43. > :23:50.Nesbitt, and I think he can make a difference, is he is into the
:23:51. > :24:00.education staff and he needs to develop that. He does have an
:24:01. > :24:01.
:24:01. > :24:07.expertise in education. He has a large job of work to do. So are you
:24:07. > :24:16.saying people should vote for you to create an opposition? Yes. We
:24:16. > :24:26.want to go into opposition and make a distinct difference. Tom Elliott
:24:26. > :24:26.
:24:26. > :24:36.spoke about a wit and branch re organisation of the party. -- 8
:24:36. > :24:37.
:24:37. > :24:41.read and branch reorganisation of the party. We have to get to a
:24:41. > :24:46.point to deliver a strategy that will get us back into office in a
:24:46. > :24:50.proper way. Do you think there will is there. Take the election next
:24:50. > :24:57.weekend. There are 700 electors from Fermanagh which is almost half
:24:57. > :25:01.the people who will elect you. What kind of a party is that? It is one-
:25:01. > :25:11.member, one-vote. Her Democratic Party. Fermanagh are exceptionally
:25:11. > :25:21.
:25:21. > :25:26.good at getting members. We want to do that every where. If we could
:25:26. > :25:36.get 700 members in every constituency, we will be doing well.
:25:36. > :25:39.
:25:39. > :25:45.But point is, can you raise that amount of interest. When we put our
:25:45. > :25:48.mind to opposition and the talent we have in the Assembly, we can
:25:48. > :25:52.make a real difference at normalising politics in Northern
:25:52. > :25:57.Ireland. Do you agree that the organisation of the party is one of
:25:57. > :26:02.its problems? You have spoken about a lack of clarity and strategy. Is
:26:02. > :26:06.it not the fact that the party are made up of groups who consider
:26:06. > :26:11.themselves to be independent? Is that not a problem? You cannot form
:26:11. > :26:19.a coherent central strategy. What we have to do is get back central
:26:19. > :26:26.message and that is what I will bring to the role of leadership. We
:26:26. > :26:31.need a core central message as to what we are standing for. We need
:26:31. > :26:41.to reconnect with the voters and develop strategies that are fit for
:26:41. > :26:42.
:26:42. > :26:47.the 21st century. We need to get people out voting who have left us.
:26:47. > :26:51.What is the big policy difference between you and the DUP? There are
:26:51. > :26:59.a range of policy differences. When I took about normalising politics,
:26:59. > :27:03.the DUP had no interest in that. There are still stuck between Sinn
:27:03. > :27:07.Fein and themselves. Which everyone votes for time after time.
:27:07. > :27:11.reason they are voting for them is because we have not been in
:27:11. > :27:21.opposition to provide that credible alternative. There is no choice.
:27:21. > :27:22.
:27:22. > :27:25.You need a credible alternative. Some of the policy differences
:27:25. > :27:31.between ourselves and the DUP, we have made it clear that health
:27:31. > :27:37.spending is insufficient and we have a crisis now in our health
:27:37. > :27:42.service. Well we get the extra money? One simple place you could
:27:42. > :27:50.get 80 million over the next four years is from the Social Investment
:27:50. > :27:55.Fund. It is sitting there and we have not spent any money. What
:27:55. > :28:05.about David McNarry? You has said he would get rid of him. Is that a
:28:05. > :28:07.
:28:07. > :28:15.diplomatic way to start? The party wants to see leadership. As party
:28:15. > :28:24.leader, I will suspend him immediately if elected. I do not
:28:24. > :28:33.want his experience because it has been negative. I went even refer to
:28:33. > :28:43.the disciplinary committee. The Commons that he has made a good.
:28:43. > :28:44.
:28:44. > :28:48.But when that be a divisive step? - but when that be a divisive step?
:28:48. > :28:58.The more he talks, the more he goes to the media, the easier it makes
:28:58. > :29:13.
:29:13. > :29:23.my job of getting rid of him. Where did you get your licence?
:29:23. > :29:23.
:29:23. > :29:29.There was good news and bad news this week. A work top golfers's tax