:00:00. > :00:00.Vanessa Feltz, who alleges she was assaulted by Rolf Harris, live on
:00:00. > :00:39.Welcome to Politics Europe, your at Politics Europe.
:00:40. > :00:45.Welcome to Politics Europe, your regular guide to the top stories in
:00:46. > :00:48.Brussels and Strasbourg. On today's programme: as Jean`Claude Juncker
:00:49. > :00:55.prepares to take the reins of The European Commission, is it time to
:00:56. > :00:57.ease off on austerity? MEPs take their seats in the new European
:00:58. > :01:04.Parliament, where there is not so much left versus right, as
:01:05. > :01:07.Eurosceptics versus Europhiles. What do other European politicians think
:01:08. > :01:16.of British Britain's stance on the EU? We have been asking MEPs in
:01:17. > :01:19.Strasbourg. The bowler hatted British civil servant is famous the
:01:20. > :01:25.world over, so why are there so few working for the EU?
:01:26. > :01:30.All that to come and more in the next half`hour. First, newly elected
:01:31. > :01:34.members of the European Parliament have been meeting in Strasbourg for
:01:35. > :01:38.the first of their regular sessions. So, what have they been getting up
:01:39. > :01:42.to, and what else has been happening over in Brussels? Here is our guide
:01:43. > :01:49.to the latest in Europe in just 60 seconds.
:01:50. > :01:52.The week's most awkward phone call, as the PM congratulates Jean`Claude
:01:53. > :01:59.Juncker on his new job, despite spending weeks trying to stop him.
:02:00. > :02:02.The new European Parliament began its session with a blast of
:02:03. > :02:05.Beethoven's Ode to Joy, the EU's anthem. Not exactly one direction,
:02:06. > :02:11.more like two. Most members faced one way, Ukip's the other. While
:02:12. > :02:17.Ukip think the EU is rubbish, it is official. The European Commission is
:02:18. > :02:20.talking rubbish. The Committee has proposed that councils will have to
:02:21. > :02:23.recycle 70% of household waste by the end of the next decade. Better
:02:24. > :02:26.news from the anti`Angela people this week, after Germany backed
:02:27. > :02:32.plans to ban migrants sending benefits abroad. And Matteo Renzi is
:02:33. > :02:44.the new Italian PM, and says the continent is moving at half of the
:02:45. > :02:54.speed of the rest of the world. So, time to get a wriggle on, pronto.
:02:55. > :02:57.And with us for the next 30 minutes, I'm joined by the Conservative Ian
:02:58. > :03:03.Duncan, and Labour's Jude Kirton Darling. Let's pick up on one of the
:03:04. > :03:07.comments made by the Italian Foreign Minister, Matteo Renzi, that we saw
:03:08. > :03:12.on the clip. That it is time to end austerity. Is it? Is it going to
:03:13. > :03:16.happen? I think it is really fundamental that we see a change in
:03:17. > :03:22.direction at European level. If we look across Europe, austerity has
:03:23. > :03:26.been counter`productive. Francois Hollande wanted to bring an end to
:03:27. > :03:30.austerity, and it was meant to be the seachange. France is now
:03:31. > :03:39.probably in a worse state than any other European economy. Figures
:03:40. > :03:44.suggest it is on the deflation rate precipice and there is no growth at
:03:45. > :03:50.all. Why did it fail? Partly because we have not seen the seachange at a
:03:51. > :03:53.European level. We saw one PM elected, president, sorry, in
:03:54. > :03:59.France, but we didn't see a change in the European strategy at a
:04:00. > :04:04.European level. What we need to see is a change in the EU strategy, and
:04:05. > :04:10.we need to see it push much more in terms of investment and growth. That
:04:11. > :04:13.is what Labour is pushing for a European level. We are calling for
:04:14. > :04:15.concrete steps forward on growth and job creation, because we still have
:04:16. > :04:21.catastrophic levels of unemployment across Europe. That is what we
:04:22. > :04:24.should be focusing on. Would that make a difference? The real issue is
:04:25. > :04:27.that causing real problems across Europe, but it is the Eurozone
:04:28. > :04:30.itself, the restrictions that are in place, that are causing problems.
:04:31. > :04:32.There is youth unemployment above 50%. Unless there is serious
:04:33. > :04:44.adjustment, generations will be lost. What should the adjustments
:04:45. > :04:46.be? What I don't think you can do is keep people trapped inside it, you
:04:47. > :04:48.have to allow people some freedom. Decoupling, devaluation, countries
:04:49. > :04:53.focusing on building themselves back. You can't have devaluation
:04:54. > :04:56.unless you leave. Decouple from the Eurozone and then revalue. I think
:04:57. > :05:02.the results will be starvation otherwise. We are all used to a
:05:03. > :05:05.left`wing right`wing dividing politics, but after the recent
:05:06. > :05:07.European elections, in which antiestablishment begins, the new
:05:08. > :05:12.division is between Europhiles and Eurosceptics. The European
:05:13. > :05:23.Parliament is still dominated by the two big traditional parties. One is
:05:24. > :05:29.the EPP, the European People's Party, they have 29% at
:05:30. > :05:31.centre`right. And the S, a progressive alignment of socialists
:05:32. > :05:38.and democrats, centre`left, they have 25%. While these groupings are
:05:39. > :05:46.different on the political side, they have one thing in common. They
:05:47. > :05:50.are both very pro`European. In some cases, almost federalist. The
:05:51. > :05:52.European love`in faces a threat, after voters returned a significant
:05:53. > :05:55.number of MEPs from Eurosceptic parties, like Ukip, France's
:05:56. > :06:04.National Front, and even the British Conservatives could be in there. The
:06:05. > :06:07.traditional rivals have got together and negotiated a grand coalition
:06:08. > :06:16.with themselves and another liberal pro`European group, to prevent the
:06:17. > :06:19.EU's programme being derailed. The dividing lines in the European
:06:20. > :06:24.Parliament were shown from the very first debate a few days ago.
:06:25. > :06:29.We, the Eurosceptics, are the progressives. These two gentleman
:06:30. > :06:32.had nothing to say today, it was the usual, dirge like, dull, looking
:06:33. > :06:35.back to a model created 50 years ago, we are the ones that want
:06:36. > :06:38.democracy, nationstate, we are the ones that want a global future for
:06:39. > :06:48.our countries, not to be trapped inside this museum.
:06:49. > :06:53.What are you doing here? What we heard was the speech of the Leader
:06:54. > :06:57.of the Opposition in the House of Commons. If you want to be
:06:58. > :07:00.considered as the leader of a European political group, then make
:07:01. > :07:07.speeches of a European political leader, thank you. We're joined now
:07:08. > :07:11.by the Ukip MEP Jim Baker, and our two guests are still here. Is it
:07:12. > :07:16.europhile and eurosceptic? Is that now the important dividing line in
:07:17. > :07:18.the European Parliament? It is business as usual. The big blocs
:07:19. > :07:26.have got together, and there are some who challenge it. Despite Dan
:07:27. > :07:29.Hannan's best efforts. You could hear they're the applause for what
:07:30. > :07:34.Nigel was saying. There is a movement away from the old, more
:07:35. > :07:38.Europe, more immigration. It is coming on in stages, but I think it
:07:39. > :07:43.is a trend we will see continue in the next elections and so on,
:07:44. > :07:46.because it can't go on. The centre`left grouping is now in a de
:07:47. > :07:48.facto coalition with the centre`right group, because although
:07:49. > :07:57.you disagree on individual policies, what unites you is a strong
:07:58. > :08:00.pro`European feel. What we are there to do in the European Parliament is
:08:01. > :08:04.to defend the people who have elected us the to go there. We are
:08:05. > :08:14.going to work to implement the programme we are committed to. In
:08:15. > :08:17.the north`east, where I stood, it was about drawing investment into
:08:18. > :08:20.the region and creating jobs, in a situation where we have the highest
:08:21. > :08:22.employment in the country. We had to build alliances, the European
:08:23. > :08:25.Parliament is not opposition government style, it is built on
:08:26. > :08:32.alliances. We need to build those alliances to work. You have joined a
:08:33. > :08:35.group that is federalist. Are you federalist? I believe we have to
:08:36. > :08:38.make the EU work for the people of Britain... Sure, but are you
:08:39. > :08:43.federalist? Not especially, but I think we are stronger together. That
:08:44. > :08:46.is not the issue. You have joined a group that is explicitly federalist,
:08:47. > :08:49.are you federalist? I would say that I believe that Europeans working
:08:50. > :08:53.together are better off than nationstates trying to pull behind
:08:54. > :09:07.national lines. So in most terms, I am quite pro`European and I'm quite
:09:08. > :09:11.proud of that. But you haven't answered my question. I think it is
:09:12. > :09:15.a false debate. The notion of federalism. Federalism is not a
:09:16. > :09:21.dictatorship, as Ukip presented. Where are the Conservatives in this
:09:22. > :09:26.at all? You are not in either of the two main groups. We are part of the
:09:27. > :09:34.third largest group. A group that believes in reform, it is in our
:09:35. > :09:36.title. We are the only opposition to the stitch up whereby Jean`Claude
:09:37. > :09:39.Juncker got the presidency of the commission, and Schulz got the
:09:40. > :09:52.presidency of the Parliament. None of your natural allies in Europe are
:09:53. > :09:56.in your group. The reality is that right now they believe in reform,
:09:57. > :10:00.and we are the only ones who can deliver that reform. Have you seen
:10:01. > :10:08.some of the people in your group? Have you had dinner with them? I
:10:09. > :10:14.have, several times. Shouldn't you choose your company more carefully?
:10:15. > :10:17.They believe in reform. When it comes to a battle between the
:10:18. > :10:19.Eurosceptics on the one side, and the strongly pro`European
:10:20. > :10:23.federalists on the other side, where do you fall? Ukip is going to turn
:10:24. > :10:29.their back on Europe. Federalism is not what we are for. We believe we
:10:30. > :10:33.can make Europe work, that is what has to be available. But it has to
:10:34. > :10:36.be serious reform, and we are the only party in the UK that can
:10:37. > :10:49.deliver a referendum to give people the choice on this. Where does Ukip
:10:50. > :10:52.go? Although the anti`European parties did very well in the
:10:53. > :10:54.European elections, when you add together the three centre groupings,
:10:55. > :10:58.the centre`right, the centre`left, and the liberalists, you are still
:10:59. > :11:01.way out and you don't agree with each other. We were taken to task,
:11:02. > :11:04.if you oppose this, what are you doing here. That is the mindset of
:11:05. > :11:13.the whole European project, the big parties. We don't want anything to
:11:14. > :11:23.do with the Parliament, we would rather be out of it. You got a
:11:24. > :11:26.hundred votes, there are 70 members in the group, and we actually pulled
:11:27. > :11:29.beyond our numbers. You are so isolated at the European level. You
:11:30. > :11:33.have seen David Cameron lose 36`2. You are not able to build alliances,
:11:34. > :11:40.and at your level you have to build alliances. By building alliances,
:11:41. > :11:44.you are willing to give up. If you are willing to give up on your
:11:45. > :11:55.principles, you can do exactly what you did. It was a free and open
:11:56. > :11:59.election, but there was no EPP candidate, it was a cosy stitch up.
:12:00. > :12:02.There were five candidates and it was a secret ballot, and anyone
:12:03. > :12:04.could have run. It was a cosy, stitch up deal. You are still
:12:05. > :12:12.outnumbered in the European Parliament substantially. You are
:12:13. > :12:15.part of a group that the British Labour Party doesn't really agree
:12:16. > :12:20.with the policies of, and you are not part of anything. We are the
:12:21. > :12:23.third biggest group. You can't sway anything, you are outnumbered by the
:12:24. > :12:26.three groups in the centre. The challenge will always be, for as
:12:27. > :12:29.long as the Labour Party believes we should be federalist minded, we will
:12:30. > :12:39.have a problem. We believe it is about reforming the EU. Building
:12:40. > :12:45.a... Don't you agree... It is what you define as reform. Name your most
:12:46. > :12:48.important reform. I would like to see a real commitment, youth
:12:49. > :12:51.unemployment put at the top of the programme. It is about reform, it is
:12:52. > :12:58.about the direction... How would you like to reform Europe? It is about
:12:59. > :13:02.redressing the balance. Employment issues in the last commission for
:13:03. > :13:07.over the last ten years have been right at the bottom of the pile. It
:13:08. > :13:15.has all been about tight fiscal matters. If you are looking at
:13:16. > :13:18.reform, start in your own house. Rather than hiding behind this
:13:19. > :13:28.circus that travels down to Strasbourg once a month. There we
:13:29. > :13:31.agree. It is in the treaties... Did you vote for Shulz? He's the leader
:13:32. > :13:34.of my political group in the European Parliament. I wouldn't have
:13:35. > :13:38.voted for a communist, I didn't vote for a conservative, he was the
:13:39. > :13:41.candidate who was the leader of my group. After that defeat that was
:13:42. > :13:43.referred to in the election of Jean`Claude Juncker as president,
:13:44. > :13:46.and Ukip's success in the parliamentary elections, what does
:13:47. > :13:49.the rest of Europe think of Britain and its prospect as a member of the
:13:50. > :13:53.EU? With the magic of television, we have been able to talk to MEPs in
:13:54. > :13:56.Strasbourg. If you reflect on it, the idea of Britain having an
:13:57. > :13:59.in`house referendum on membership of the European Union has not been
:14:00. > :14:20.conjured up out of anywhere. And how warped does the debate get
:14:21. > :14:24.sometimes? The thing is, not only do lots of countries think it is a
:14:25. > :14:34.difficult trick to pull off, but also it has been kind of magic. I
:14:35. > :14:38.think it is very important that Britain will stay in the EU, and in
:14:39. > :14:45.Austria we think it is only a threat from Britain that it will leave. Mr
:14:46. > :14:48.Cameron will show us how important he is in Europe, and we take it as a
:14:49. > :14:51.joke. After the European election results, nearly half the old MEPs
:14:52. > :14:55.have transformed into new ones, and as a result of attitude here and
:14:56. > :14:58.elsewhere, it is worth flagging up for Britain and many of the other 28
:14:59. > :15:01.member state their contingents are now more Eurosceptic than ever.
:15:02. > :15:20.Debating outlets it is a good thing, and also very revealing. It is not a
:15:21. > :15:32.joke, it is a big issue, whatever Britain decide to do. It is
:15:33. > :15:36.significant for all here. I don't think it is harmful for the EU, it
:15:37. > :15:40.is healthy for the EU to understand that we are not locked in, we can
:15:41. > :15:44.exit if we want to. It is better that a big country like Britain has
:15:45. > :15:46.taken up these issues of reform, and even possible except, if the EU
:15:47. > :15:49.continues on this part of federalism. Many Europeans see
:15:50. > :15:56.Britain as descending into the dark arts, the official awkward squad
:15:57. > :16:00.making tactical threats. Then they think, maybe they are blackmailing
:16:01. > :16:04.us, is it worth it? Or maybe, can we conceive of EU without the UK? The
:16:05. > :16:07.answer to that is, if you ask often enough, yes. The costs would be very
:16:08. > :16:19.high, both ways round. A terrible loss of prestige. What that really
:16:20. > :16:22.reveals to those who want to map out Britain's future, is that if we can
:16:23. > :16:26.do without Europe, they can live without us. When everyone finally
:16:27. > :16:29.sees the gap it has left for both, everyone may want to reconsider. I
:16:30. > :16:33.am mindful to say to people, I think it is all bad and it doesn't work. I
:16:34. > :16:36.think it could work better to say, be careful what you wish for. Be
:16:37. > :16:47.careful of removing something that has taken wars to create and
:16:48. > :16:50.stabilise. Do you want to be the political group that pulled it
:16:51. > :16:53.apart? Others look to Europe as being the envy of democracy and free
:16:54. > :16:56.movement and liberation. For those who are transparently pro` European,
:16:57. > :16:58.the structural debate appears to distract, and Eurosceptic voters
:16:59. > :17:04.should know where that leaves those who want out. They need to
:17:05. > :17:07.understand that they have no influence in the concrete daily work
:17:08. > :17:17.of the Parliament, because they are not part of the discussions in the
:17:18. > :17:20.committees. When we are talking about creating roads and financial
:17:21. > :17:23.sector stabilisation and so on, there is no participation of these
:17:24. > :17:26.extremist groups, so they are getting money for doing nothing here
:17:27. > :17:29.on a European level. In one sense, it doesn't really matter what other
:17:30. > :17:32.countries think, because if we have a referendum, and if we vote no,
:17:33. > :17:42.then like that, we are gone. We haven't seen him since.
:17:43. > :17:47.How big an issue is it with other Europeans in the European Parliament
:17:48. > :17:58.of the possibility of Britain's departure? I think it has been
:17:59. > :18:08.disgust. This Parliament is one that is different from the past, the
:18:09. > :18:11.general consensus is different. There is a mood now for reform and
:18:12. > :18:14.change, and also the recognition that Britain is pushing for that. It
:18:15. > :18:26.is not just about what Britain wants, it is about what the rest of
:18:27. > :18:29.Europe wants as well. We need to listen to the people who put us into
:18:30. > :18:32.the Parliament, because frankly we are not just voting for the same old
:18:33. > :18:35.same old, they want something different. If everyone is shouting
:18:36. > :18:38.for reform, why can't a consensus emerge and we proceed? I think
:18:39. > :18:44.fundamentally it's about different kinds of reforms. There are some
:18:45. > :18:47.things would be clearly agreed. Stopping the kind of charade of us
:18:48. > :18:58.all tripping down to Strasbourg and making one seat for the family, that
:18:59. > :19:01.makes a lot of sense. That would take David Cameron going into a
:19:02. > :19:04.negotiation with other leaders and actually being able to build an
:19:05. > :19:07.alliance for that kind of reform, because it is prime ministers that
:19:08. > :19:10.make... But the alliance wouldn't make any difference, the French
:19:11. > :19:13.would just stop it. You find ways of finding a compromise that would work
:19:14. > :19:16.for the French. Many of those things in the hands of the European
:19:17. > :19:30.Council, things like more policy reform. Like I said, redirecting
:19:31. > :19:32.with the focus is in terms of growth and investment, in terms of
:19:33. > :19:34.employment. Could you get... For example, the single biggest spending
:19:35. > :19:38.is still common agricultural policies. Not as big as it was, but
:19:39. > :19:41.still biggest. Would reform include getting that money being spent on
:19:42. > :19:46.infrastructure and job creation and modernising Europe? How big a chance
:19:47. > :19:49.is that? You put your finger on it. If you look at how the negotiations
:19:50. > :19:51.over the budget took place, money was subtracted from things that
:19:52. > :19:55.would affect things like broadband, to shore up other issues like
:19:56. > :19:58.farming. We need to do what is best for Europe, we have to get things
:19:59. > :20:06.more focused. Maybe one day it will happen. Adam Fleming has been
:20:07. > :20:12.continuing his sojourn through the A to Z of Europe. Today he is on B.
:20:13. > :20:15.Maybe he's not doing it in alphabetical order. He has been
:20:16. > :20:18.visiting British civil servants working for the EU to find out
:20:19. > :20:32.whether they are an endangered species.
:20:33. > :20:35.The biggest thing that surprised me on my travels in Euroland is the
:20:36. > :20:38.number of British people I bumped into. In The Hague, the head of
:20:39. > :20:42.Europol, in Switzerland, the EU's ambassador, and in Brussels, Lowri
:20:43. > :20:44.Evans, the top civil servant in the directorate that overseas fish. When
:20:45. > :20:48.people are talking to you, they don't say, she is a British person,
:20:49. > :21:01.they are actually talking to you as your function. She is in charge of
:21:02. > :21:08.fish policy. Oh, she is a British person. It is not really the primary
:21:09. > :21:11.thing. Is it useful for you having Whitehall, is there any backchat?
:21:12. > :21:17.There is no backchat, and I will talk to anyone who wants to talk to
:21:18. > :21:20.me. The problem is, there are a lot of Lowris, senior people reaching
:21:21. > :21:29.the end of long EU careers, and not enough Joannes, who are just
:21:30. > :21:34.starting out. Since I started out, I am one of a handful of Brits who I
:21:35. > :21:37.have known in the last 18 months. Mainly my colleagues from lots of
:21:38. > :21:41.different European countries. Of course, that was part of the appeal
:21:42. > :21:56.of coming to work here, was the mix of people and cultures, and I find
:21:57. > :21:59.that very interesting. That is the story the statistics tell well. For
:22:00. > :22:02.simplicity, let's look at one of these departments, the Commission,
:22:03. > :22:05.where Joanne works. The number of UK internationals who work there has
:22:06. > :22:17.fallen by 24% over the last seven years, which means now just 4.5% of
:22:18. > :22:21.the staff are British. And the UK makes up 12.5% of the population of
:22:22. > :22:24.the EU, so as a nation we are seriously underrepresented. A
:22:25. > :22:28.situation one British EU official told me is a catastrophe. And that
:22:29. > :22:31.is kind of how they see it here at the Foreign Office in London, too.
:22:32. > :22:34.So much so that earlier this year they launched a new drive to get
:22:35. > :22:37.more people thinking of careers as EU civil servants, and there is a
:22:38. > :22:41.whole office dedicated to getting people who work in Whitehall to go
:22:42. > :22:44.and work in Brussels. For anyone tempted to keep the British end up
:22:45. > :22:47.over there, what is the EU really like as an employer? Do you find
:22:48. > :22:51.yourself going back home and being an advocate for the EU at dinner
:22:52. > :22:58.parties and the pub? Absolutely, 100%. But I am very happy to. Is
:22:59. > :23:04.this a fun place to work? It is, we don't have fun, you know. We have
:23:05. > :23:09.jobs satisfaction. We have neither here. There is one job that a Brit
:23:10. > :23:11.is more or less guaranteed to get, which is a position as European
:23:12. > :23:16.Commissioner working for Jean`Claude Juncker. Cognac is free, who will it
:23:17. > :23:22.be? I put my money on Malcolm Rifkind. Malcolm Rifkind? I think we
:23:23. > :23:30.would be able to win a by`election in Kensington, and I think he would
:23:31. > :23:33.be up for the job. He is not up for the job? I have heard his name
:23:34. > :23:37.mentioned several times. That is news to me. From our perspective, it
:23:38. > :23:40.is the government who decides. Because Nick Clegg wants a platinum
:23:41. > :23:52.balloon out of the Coalition, I would guess that it would be a Tory.
:23:53. > :23:56.In any case, whoever it is, we hope that somebody who is able to help
:23:57. > :24:01.build those alliances at a European level, and we will be working with
:24:02. > :24:08.them. What will be a good portfolio for them to get? There is quite a
:24:09. > :24:14.choice, isn't there? The British have always gone for internal
:24:15. > :24:17.market. We have not managed to get it due to our position from other
:24:18. > :24:21.countries, up until now. There are big issues in the future around
:24:22. > :24:35.energy, climate change. There are lots of key issues. Which one would
:24:36. > :24:39.you like them to get? Trade would make a difference. Internal markets,
:24:40. > :24:42.I think trade would make a big difference. If we are going to start
:24:43. > :24:46.trading. They haven't been going far, they have been bogged down. It
:24:47. > :24:50.is time to get them moving again. If that can happen in the next five
:24:51. > :24:54.years we can create growth, then we create jobs. Mandelson took the
:24:55. > :24:57.trade portfolio quite seriously, didn't he? He did, and he is
:24:58. > :25:01.regarded quite well in Brussels as a result. The key thing is that we
:25:02. > :25:04.have to have a commissioner who is willing to do the hard work, and is
:25:05. > :25:15.willing to put themselves into the job fully. If that is the case, then
:25:16. > :25:18.I think the UK will be in a good position. I think the key, it is
:25:19. > :25:21.interesting in the report, we have to be encouraging younger people to
:25:22. > :25:24.apply to work in the institutions. And that is also about changing and
:25:25. > :25:37.informing back to the British public about what the institution is about.
:25:38. > :25:55.We have to leave it there. Thank you to my guests. Goodbye.
:25:56. > :26:05.For most of us, today turned out to be a pretty decent day, with some
:26:06. > :26:06.sunshine around and a few showers across western areas. Through