0:00:01 > 0:00:08Now on BBC News: Politics Europe.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41Hello and welcome to Politics Europe, your regular guide
0:00:41 > 0:00:45to the top stories in Brussels and Strasbourg.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48We will be talking about the EU Commission's plan to stem the flow
0:00:48 > 0:00:52of migrants from Africa with the offer of financial help.
0:00:52 > 0:00:54Is it wise, and will it work?
0:00:54 > 0:00:57Britain's referendum on EU membership is just
0:00:57 > 0:00:58around the corner.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02But how will the rest of the union treat us if we vote to leave,
0:01:02 > 0:01:05or even if we decide to stay?
0:01:05 > 0:01:08And what is more important, the EU or the Commonwealth?
0:01:08 > 0:01:11We have been to Malta, the EU's smallest country,
0:01:11 > 0:01:19to find out.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22So all that to come and more in the next half hour.
0:01:22 > 0:01:28First though, this week members of the European Parliament have been
0:01:28 > 0:01:30meeting in Strasbourg for their regular plenary session.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33So what have they been getting up to, and what else has been
0:01:33 > 0:01:34happening across Europe?
0:01:34 > 0:01:39Here is our guide to the latest in just 60 seconds.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41The European Parliament agreed to set up an inquiry
0:01:41 > 0:01:43into the Panama Papers revelations.
0:01:43 > 0:01:50It is looking specifically at alleged violations of EU law
0:01:50 > 0:01:52by the European Commission and member states.
0:01:52 > 0:01:54MEPs accused Turkish politicians of undermining the rule of law
0:01:54 > 0:01:57by stripping the immunity of 138 MPs.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00It means parliamentarians critical of President Erdogan could face
0:02:00 > 0:02:03prosecution, and it will hardly do Turkey any favours in its bid
0:02:03 > 0:02:05to join the EU, especially after the Chancellor said
0:02:05 > 0:02:07this this week.
0:02:07 > 0:02:09Turkey is a key ally.
0:02:09 > 0:02:12They're a member of Nato, by the way, an organisation we all,
0:02:12 > 0:02:17on all sides of the campaign, talk up.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19But is it going to be the European Union?
0:02:19 > 0:02:20No, it's not.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23The Commission proposed new plans to tackle the financial crisis
0:02:23 > 0:02:25by offering financial incentives to African and Middle Eastern
0:02:25 > 0:02:28countries, to encourage them to stop people flowing into Europe.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30And time for a lol.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32It looks a bit like a smiley-face emoji, but it is actually
0:02:32 > 0:02:34the new Slovak Presidency logo.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36It is meant to convey positivity.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39Let's see how long that lasts after Slovakia takes on the EU
0:02:39 > 0:02:47Presidency after the first of July.
0:02:47 > 0:02:51And with us for the next 30 minutes, I am joined by the Conservative MEP
0:02:51 > 0:02:59David Campbell Bannerman.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02He is supporting a vote to leave in the upcoming EU referendum
0:03:02 > 0:03:05in Britain, and by the Green MEP Jean Lambert, who is supporting
0:03:05 > 0:03:05remain.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08So let's take a look at one of the stories in more detail,
0:03:08 > 0:03:11whether Turkey is going to join the EU or not?
0:03:11 > 0:03:14And I would suggest to both of you that neither remain nor leave
0:03:14 > 0:03:16is totally accurate or honest in this.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18Let me come to the leave.
0:03:18 > 0:03:20It is true that it is official Government policy that Turkey
0:03:20 > 0:03:22should join the EU at some stage.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25The Prime Minister is trying to kick it into the long grass.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28But even if the Government was putting all its effort behind
0:03:28 > 0:03:30Turkey to join, it is a long way off.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32Well, it's been a long way for some time.
0:03:32 > 0:03:33Exactly.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35I mean, that's true.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38However it is the aspiration to have Turkey, and we are spending ?1.8
0:03:38 > 0:03:39billion on pre-accession funding.
0:03:39 > 0:03:43That's over five countries, including Turkey.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46Yes, that's right, it's part of that package.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49But I think there is a poster that says it could join by 2020.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51We know that is not true.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I haven't seen that one, I think that is not correct.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57But I think it is - you know, the accession process has
0:03:57 > 0:04:02been restarted and speeded up.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04So that is fair enough, that you are not saying
0:04:04 > 0:04:06it is imminent.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10And on your side of the argument, it isn't going to happen soon,
0:04:10 > 0:04:13but it is policy that Turkey should join at some stage.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16And this referendum is not for tomorrow, or the next day.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19It is for a long while, so it's fair to raise that,
0:04:19 > 0:04:26is it not?
0:04:26 > 0:04:29I think it's fair to raise that if you're actually talking
0:04:29 > 0:04:31about future enlargement of the European Union,
0:04:31 > 0:04:36not if you're using it as a shorthand for something else.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38And it's true that, if Turkey were to join,
0:04:38 > 0:04:40there's a long process to go through.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42And certainly the current Government many of us consider
0:04:42 > 0:04:47is going backwards, in the way that it is not
0:04:47 > 0:04:48going to meet the criteria.
0:04:48 > 0:04:50But yes, it is still on the agenda.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53By the current government you mean the current Turkish government.
0:04:53 > 0:04:54Current Turkish government, yes.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56Because of the move to a more Islamic...
0:04:56 > 0:04:57Well, a more repressive government.
0:04:57 > 0:05:00It's not necessarily Islamic, it's the fact that it's repressive,
0:05:00 > 0:05:04and that, you know, yes.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07But it's also the fact that, as you just mentioned,
0:05:07 > 0:05:09about what has happened to the immunity of people
0:05:09 > 0:05:11from the sort of more left-wing Kurdish party.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14So yes, it's on the table at some point.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16I'm assuming that, you know, given what the Government here has
0:05:16 > 0:05:19proposed in terms of future referenda, that would be
0:05:19 > 0:05:20a treaty change.
0:05:20 > 0:05:24And so it becomes a decision, but it's still on the table.
0:05:24 > 0:05:26Alright, well, on that reasonable degree of agreement there,
0:05:27 > 0:05:28let's see if I can do better!
0:05:28 > 0:05:31Now, the deal the EU struck with Turkey to stem the flow
0:05:31 > 0:05:34of migrants crossing into Greece seems to be having some effect,
0:05:34 > 0:05:36at least in that part of the Mediterranean.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38How long remains to be seen.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41But can and should that deal be repeated in other countries
0:05:41 > 0:05:42in Africa and the Middle East?
0:05:42 > 0:05:46Here is our correspondent with the details.
0:05:46 > 0:05:50The moment when hope turned to fear in May on the Med.
0:05:50 > 0:05:52This footage from the Italian navy was a chilling reminder of how
0:05:52 > 0:05:55fragile migrants' lives can be.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58Thousands have died attempting the journey to Europe since 2014,
0:05:58 > 0:06:01according to the UN.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04But dealing with and sorting through the influx of migrants has
0:06:04 > 0:06:07also created domestic political problems for Europe's leaders,
0:06:07 > 0:06:12after more than 200,000 have arrived so far this year.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15The number of migrants arriving in Greece has dropped after the EU
0:06:15 > 0:06:19promised Turkey billions of pounds in aid for better sea and border
0:06:19 > 0:06:22controls, although the promise of visa-free travel for Turkish
0:06:22 > 0:06:24citizens within the Schengen zone continues to put that deal
0:06:24 > 0:06:29to the test.
0:06:29 > 0:06:32On Tuesday, the European Commission announced the outline of a new ?50
0:06:32 > 0:06:35billion deal with Middle East and North African countries.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37The partnership plan proposes trade deals and more investment
0:06:37 > 0:06:40for at least nine states, to stem the flow of migrants
0:06:40 > 0:06:43to the EU.
0:06:43 > 0:06:47Top of the list are Jordan and Lebanon, hosting 1.8 million
0:06:47 > 0:06:52Syrian refugees, as well as Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Mali and Ethiopia,
0:06:52 > 0:06:57countries migrants leave from or travel through to get to Europe.
0:06:57 > 0:06:59The key coastal states of Libya and Tunisia,
0:06:59 > 0:07:03launching points for crossings where EU cash would bolster border
0:07:03 > 0:07:08and sea controls, and somewhat controversially, cash for countries
0:07:08 > 0:07:17with poor human rights records like Eritrea and Sudan,
0:07:17 > 0:07:18where migrants leave from.
0:07:18 > 0:07:20So often on the back foot during this migration crisis,
0:07:20 > 0:07:22EU leaders have been trying desperately hard
0:07:22 > 0:07:23to regain the initiative.
0:07:23 > 0:07:24Now, they think they have.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27We propose to use a mix of positive and negative incentives,
0:07:27 > 0:07:29to reward those third countries willing to co-operate effectively
0:07:29 > 0:07:31with us, and to ensure that there are consequences
0:07:31 > 0:07:35for those who do not.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37This includes using our development and trade policies
0:07:37 > 0:07:42to create leverage.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45If this is the EU's big push on controlling migration,
0:07:45 > 0:07:48then bear in mind that this is not new money pledged,
0:07:48 > 0:07:49but from existing EU funds.
0:07:49 > 0:07:53It relies on the ambition that member states will also match EU
0:07:53 > 0:07:55funding, and on the hope that private and public backers
0:07:55 > 0:07:58will want to invest too.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01The proposals would require approval by EU governments and the EU
0:08:01 > 0:08:04Parliament.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07But one Eurosceptic MEP has already dismissed them.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10Saying that we should stabilise the countries of origin is a kind
0:08:10 > 0:08:11of a copout.
0:08:11 > 0:08:14I mean, what are we going to do in the intervening 30 years?
0:08:14 > 0:08:17Definitely the European Union should be opening its markets
0:08:17 > 0:08:18to produce from Africa.
0:08:18 > 0:08:23Probably the most immoral trade policy in the world at the moment
0:08:23 > 0:08:26is the EU's Common Agricultural Policy.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29It means that not only are producers, exporters
0:08:29 > 0:08:33in developing countries, denied Europe's markets.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36It means they then very often have to face unfair competition
0:08:36 > 0:08:39against subsidised EU produce at home.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42And as one EU analyst notes, there is a moral dilemma
0:08:42 > 0:08:43for the EU leaders too.
0:08:43 > 0:08:49I think the European Union has found it quite difficult to deal
0:08:49 > 0:08:51with the problems with the existing policies that it's got.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54So what it's doing in effect is trying to retrofit its existing
0:08:54 > 0:08:57policies, to cope with a political problem it hadn't anticipated.
0:08:57 > 0:09:00The problem is how you move from a situation in which you have
0:09:00 > 0:09:03a group of countries which don't necessarily have the institutions,
0:09:03 > 0:09:05the rule of law and democracy, which looks and feels
0:09:05 > 0:09:09like what you have in Europe.
0:09:09 > 0:09:15So in its the latest plan to control migration,
0:09:15 > 0:09:17the EU finds itself under fire over its protectionist trade
0:09:17 > 0:09:20policies, and questioned over how it will handle autocrats.
0:09:20 > 0:09:27There is no simple solution to what could be a decades-long problem.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30When you look at the scale of some of the problems facing the countries
0:09:30 > 0:09:33that we're talking about here, there is about nine of them,
0:09:33 > 0:09:37Ethiopia being one, Mali, Niger, Senegal, is this not just a drop
0:09:37 > 0:09:41in the ocean?
0:09:41 > 0:09:46I think it potentially - in many respects some of us think
0:09:46 > 0:09:50it is a drop in the ocean.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53On the other hand, it's also at least an effort to try
0:09:53 > 0:09:55and do something, as was being said.
0:09:55 > 0:09:57But I think that, you know, it has to go hand-in-hand
0:09:57 > 0:09:59with a whole set of other policy areas, too.
0:09:59 > 0:10:02Whether that's, you know, looking again at development aid,
0:10:02 > 0:10:06and whether - how effectively that's working, but certainly issues
0:10:06 > 0:10:08about trade policy, and also what we're doing -
0:10:08 > 0:10:11what more can be done to help job creation in the countries
0:10:11 > 0:10:12of origin as well.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16To stop the people trying to...
0:10:16 > 0:10:19Well, so that young people there who have some...
0:10:19 > 0:10:20Have opportunities.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22Yeah, so they feel their country isn't broken.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25What's your take on this?
0:10:25 > 0:10:28Well, we've tried it with Turkey, which is basically to bribe them,
0:10:28 > 0:10:30to often them trade deals, offer them cash.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32?62 billion has been mentioned as one figure.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35But with Turkey that is to - that is an attempt, that is not
0:10:35 > 0:10:37really geared at Turkish nationals.
0:10:37 > 0:10:40That is geared at the almost 3 million refugees who have fled
0:10:40 > 0:10:45the war zone to go to Turkey.
0:10:45 > 0:10:46Coming through, yeah.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49A different - that is a big problem, but it is a different problem.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52I think the approach is quite similar, and the press release
0:10:52 > 0:10:54actually says that, it's quite similar to Turkey.
0:10:54 > 0:10:56And I mean, my worry is that, as Oxfam have complained,
0:10:56 > 0:10:59you know, this could go to some very nasty governments,
0:10:59 > 0:11:00with very poor human rights records.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04And is there any guarantee it is going to work?
0:11:04 > 0:11:15That is an issue, in places like Eritrea, the Sudan,
0:11:15 > 0:11:18where human rights are appalling, that is why a lot of people
0:11:19 > 0:11:20are fleeing in the first place.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23I think it is in Eritrea where it is compulsory to join
0:11:23 > 0:11:24the army and so on.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27That's right, and really heavy penalties if you do not.
0:11:27 > 0:11:28And heavy, and a horrible existence.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31But should we - because in the end I suppose this
0:11:31 > 0:11:33is government-to-government aid, are we not just really bolstering
0:11:33 > 0:11:35the existing regimes with this money?
0:11:35 > 0:11:36I think there's a risk of that.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39And this is why I think it's really important that,
0:11:39 > 0:11:42you know, that when we're looking at aid as we do,
0:11:42 > 0:11:43that it is stepped.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46In some places it will be aid which will go more towards NGOs,
0:11:46 > 0:11:50will go towards working on the ground, so you circumvent
0:11:50 > 0:11:51the government.
0:11:51 > 0:11:53Other places where you feel you've got a more stable government,
0:11:53 > 0:11:56that is actually trying to move forward, it will be direct budget
0:11:57 > 0:11:57support within the government.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00And that's, for example, what we were doing countries like
0:12:00 > 0:12:01Bangladesh.
0:12:01 > 0:12:07Which yes, there are still questions, but you're doing
0:12:07 > 0:12:08that, it's a different sort of thing.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11But I think the important part of it is that, whatever
0:12:11 > 0:12:13you are doing, you still keep the human rights agenda
0:12:13 > 0:12:16on the table, I mean, you know, and you don't
0:12:16 > 0:12:17shut your eyes to that.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20I assume you agree with the point that one of the reasons these
0:12:20 > 0:12:22countries, a lot of them agricultural-based countries,
0:12:22 > 0:12:25because that is the stage of the development they are at,
0:12:25 > 0:12:34are not helped are the protections that go with the Common Agricultural
0:12:34 > 0:12:35I fully agree with Dan.
0:12:35 > 0:12:38It is disgraceful, the policy has hurt many of these countries,
0:12:38 > 0:12:40and makes it hard to compete with it.
0:12:40 > 0:12:44You are essentially dumping cheap food.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46It is a two-way process, you are saying.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49You have their products, as well as dumping.
0:12:49 > 0:12:50Because it has been surplus.
0:12:50 > 0:12:51Do you agree with that?
0:12:51 > 0:12:53It is certainly a criticism the Greens have made
0:12:53 > 0:12:54for quite some time.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57It is interesting who is getting on board with that criticism.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01But I think one of the things that is changing is that there is no
0:13:01 > 0:13:03European assistance to help countries reach the standards,
0:13:03 > 0:13:07sort of the hygiene standards and the like.
0:13:07 > 0:13:10I think there is also a question about, in terms of the development,
0:13:10 > 0:13:13we are still looking at what you do to add value
0:13:13 > 0:13:16in the country of origin.
0:13:16 > 0:13:19That is where the tariffs go up though, don't they,
0:13:19 > 0:13:19at the moment?
0:13:19 > 0:13:22If you do things to the produce in these countries, and get
0:13:22 > 0:13:26the value added, the EU puts a higher tariff on it.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29This's a risk that this is where the trade restrictions
0:13:29 > 0:13:31for the poorest countries of the world have been extremely
0:13:31 > 0:13:33important, in that, in terms of offering
0:13:33 > 0:13:36support in how they develop, not only their markets,
0:13:36 > 0:13:39the European Union, but internally and to the region.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43This idea of the blue card system for the EU is roughly
0:13:43 > 0:13:45the same as the American grey card system.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48Good, bad, indifferent?
0:13:48 > 0:13:55It hasn't been used very much to date.
0:13:55 > 0:13:57Only Germany, it has been used a bit.
0:13:57 > 0:13:59It hasn't been very successful.
0:13:59 > 0:14:00Is it worth a try?
0:14:00 > 0:14:05The right direction, skilled migrants.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08But if we leave the EU, of course we will be outside
0:14:08 > 0:14:12the customs union, so therefore we could cut
0:14:12 > 0:14:14tariffs on a lot of these developing countries.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16We will see how that goes down with British farmers.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20Now, if the UK votes to remain in the EU on the 23rd of June,
0:14:20 > 0:14:23that is the date, how will the rest of the EU treat
0:14:23 > 0:14:34us?
0:14:34 > 0:14:37Are they are keen to help us implement David Cameron's
0:14:37 > 0:14:39negotiation, or would there possibly be a rift?
0:14:39 > 0:14:42If we leave, will they want to send a message by putting
0:14:42 > 0:14:45the UK through the ringer or will they strike a new relationship
0:14:45 > 0:14:48with us as quickly as possible?
0:14:48 > 0:14:51Although European politicians don't talk about,
0:14:51 > 0:14:54there have been warnings that the EU would be tough in any future
0:14:54 > 0:14:54negotiations.
0:14:54 > 0:14:56The German Finance Minister, Wolfgang Schauble, reportedly
0:14:56 > 0:14:58told his UK counterpart that his country
0:14:58 > 0:15:01would be tough for what he described as years of the most
0:15:01 > 0:15:05difficult negotiations.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09The French finance minister has warned that Britain
0:15:09 > 0:15:12would be completely killed in trade talks if the country wants to leave
0:15:13 > 0:15:15the EU.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18We have to be very clear that Brexit will have consequences,
0:15:18 > 0:15:26he said.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29The Leave campaigners believe would continue to thrive,
0:15:29 > 0:15:30even outside the EU's single market.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33Leaving the EU would also lead the UK to take back
0:15:33 > 0:15:36control of its ability for trade and trade more freely with the rest
0:15:36 > 0:15:42of the world.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45Plus, they argue that the European project is a steamroller
0:15:45 > 0:15:47and that if we remain in Britain, we will be flattened.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50I suppose the difficult thing is, until it happens, we don't know.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53Of course European politicians will say, if you vote to leave,
0:15:53 > 0:16:00we are going to be really tough.
0:16:00 > 0:16:02They could hardly say, yeah, vote to leave,
0:16:02 > 0:16:03you can do whatever you want.
0:16:03 > 0:16:05We just don't know, do we?
0:16:05 > 0:16:07I'm on the trade committee, and the EU is doing
0:16:07 > 0:16:09trade deals around the world.
0:16:09 > 0:16:16Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18So, socially, the model of running your own country
0:16:18 > 0:16:21and grating a great trade deal with the EU is proven in that sense.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24Except that nobody would ever have been in our position
0:16:24 > 0:16:25if we vote to leave.
0:16:25 > 0:16:33That is different.
0:16:33 > 0:16:34Greenland is the closest.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36I would say that it makes it easier to
0:16:36 > 0:16:40do a trade deal in the sense that we are already compliant now,
0:16:40 > 0:16:41because we are members of the EU.
0:16:41 > 0:16:43We don't have the tariffs to negotiate away,
0:16:43 > 0:16:52150% tariffs on whiskey, say, in India.
0:16:52 > 0:17:01What's your honest assessment?
0:17:01 > 0:17:05It is almost impossible to tell what Europe's is.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08Suppose we voted to leave and left perhaps
0:17:08 > 0:17:11around Christmas or in the autumn, what do you think the mood would be
0:17:11 > 0:17:13like in the European capitals dealing with this?
0:17:13 > 0:17:17I think it will be mixed, because there will be a question of,
0:17:17 > 0:17:25there are strong relationships that have been forged
0:17:25 > 0:17:27over the years, there are obviously have trade implications
0:17:27 > 0:17:28for the EU.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31But given what we know about the rise of the hard right
0:17:31 > 0:17:33in countries such as France and the like, I think
0:17:33 > 0:17:37there would also be a strong desire to have a clear message that
0:17:37 > 0:17:39if other countries want to go down this
0:17:39 > 0:17:42route, this is not going to be sort of, sunshine ever after and almost
0:17:42 > 0:17:47after and almost no change.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49So in cases of Marine Le Pen and those countries?
0:17:49 > 0:17:50Yes.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53I think the other key issue will be the question
0:17:53 > 0:17:57of free movement and if we decide, and we don't quite know who will be
0:17:57 > 0:18:00doing the negotiating for the UK, your party will sort that for us,
0:18:00 > 0:18:03given that we don't...
0:18:03 > 0:18:07If that is going to be a key issue, then I think a whole lot of other
0:18:07 > 0:18:09things become very difficult and you will
0:18:09 > 0:18:12be very grateful for the work I have been doing on the EU migration
0:18:12 > 0:18:12policy.
0:18:12 > 0:18:22We will be knocking on your door.
0:18:22 > 0:18:24The negotiation, hypothetically, the people who haven't voted yet,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27if we are out of the EU, will we not be confronted
0:18:27 > 0:18:29by quite an existential choice, in a way?
0:18:29 > 0:18:32You can have free movement within the EU, and you can
0:18:32 > 0:18:34have the single market, but you can't pick
0:18:34 > 0:18:36and choose?
0:18:36 > 0:18:49You have to have both if you want one?
0:18:49 > 0:18:54I think this is a fallacy we have heard from the Remain camp.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56Only four of 440 trade agreements have free
0:18:56 > 0:18:58movement, Switzerland and Lichtenstein are getting rid
0:18:58 > 0:18:59of freedom of movement.
0:18:59 > 0:19:00Switzerland doesn't know what to do.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02There are people voting against that.
0:19:02 > 0:19:04The EU is refusing to talk because they
0:19:04 > 0:19:08say, access to the single market, you have to...
0:19:08 > 0:19:10I accept that.
0:19:10 > 0:19:17The thing that people don't realise, including President Obama,
0:19:17 > 0:19:21we have a rules-based deal which is nonnegotiable.
0:19:21 > 0:19:25We have already signed a treaty, it is exactly the same relationship
0:19:25 > 0:19:31the EU has with US and Canada.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34So there is a fallback position, what you're talking
0:19:34 > 0:19:37about is a better trade deal on top, which all of us want.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40In my paper here, the former head of the German
0:19:40 > 0:19:42CPI says of course there would be a trade deal.
0:19:42 > 0:19:44They don't want us to leave.
0:19:44 > 0:19:45We will find out.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48We will see what the conditions are.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51We have to find that out!
0:19:51 > 0:19:54Malta is the smallest and most densely populated EU member
0:19:54 > 0:19:57State.
0:19:57 > 0:20:03It has a population about the size of Bristol.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05What has been the effect of only 12 years of EU
0:20:06 > 0:20:14membership?
0:20:14 > 0:20:16This unique little country, here's Adam with our
0:20:16 > 0:20:22latest in the series, Meet The Neighbours.
0:20:35 > 0:20:43It's like Game of Thrones meets the boat race.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46This is Malta's Freedom Day bank holiday regatta,
0:20:46 > 0:20:56when crews from the six towns surrounding
0:20:56 > 0:20:58this harbour and face each other in an orgy of rowing,
0:20:58 > 0:21:05pulling in, and I think, swearing.
0:21:05 > 0:21:10Hi Andy, how are you?
0:21:10 > 0:21:12Good thanks!
0:21:12 > 0:21:13Things are more genteel with Andy.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16Like a lot of the people on these islands, he is part
0:21:16 > 0:21:18Maltese, part British, and he loves the royal family.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21In fact, he has had Prince William in the back
0:21:21 > 0:21:22of his water taxi.
0:21:22 > 0:21:29I got a letter from Paris thanking me for taking
0:21:29 > 0:21:32Prince William around and saying how much he enjoyed being on the boat.
0:21:32 > 0:21:34To me, it is one of my greatest treasures.
0:21:34 > 0:21:38There are bits of Britishness all over the country.
0:21:38 > 0:21:39Do we even have these any more?
0:21:39 > 0:21:42Malta is just one of three EU countries that is also
0:21:42 > 0:21:44in the Commonwealth, along with the UK and
0:21:44 > 0:21:44Cyprus.
0:21:44 > 0:21:48This is a country that basically half a million people are living in,
0:21:48 > 0:21:56and it is rare that we have the occasion to sit down at the same
0:21:56 > 0:21:59table with economic superpowers not coming from Europe.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01Without such a platform, it would be extremely
0:22:01 > 0:22:09difficult for smaller or even micro- states to put forward their
0:22:09 > 0:22:10arguments, which are essentially existential
0:22:10 > 0:22:12on whether they survive or not.
0:22:12 > 0:22:17Right now, Malta chairs the Commonwealth and will
0:22:17 > 0:22:20next year hold a rotating presidency of the EU at the same time,
0:22:20 > 0:22:21at the same time, jackpot.
0:22:21 > 0:22:25You would be amazed at the sort of interest that there is amongst
0:22:25 > 0:22:30European countries to get to know what makes this organisation called
0:22:30 > 0:22:32the Commonwealth tick, because it is very difficult to find
0:22:32 > 0:22:33another organisation worldwide which has
0:22:34 > 0:22:38such a diverse composition.
0:22:38 > 0:23:02It has its problems, so we are trying to
0:23:02 > 0:23:04resolve those and use the Presidency of the Commonwealth to put forward
0:23:04 > 0:23:06the issue of say, gay rights.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08Back in the harbour, the regatta is over.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11It is clear that membership of the Commonwealth and the EU helps
0:23:11 > 0:23:13also to punch above its weight, but it
0:23:13 > 0:23:16trades much more with the EU, suggesting that is the more powerful
0:23:16 > 0:23:16pairing.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18I've never been to Malta, you have?
0:23:18 > 0:23:20You were telling me, I think I want to go.
0:23:20 > 0:23:26It is a really interesting place and has masses of history.
0:23:26 > 0:23:33For them, you heard it there, for them, being at the table
0:23:33 > 0:23:34is really important, as being at the table for us
0:23:37 > 0:23:45is going to be important.
0:23:45 > 0:23:47A small place like Malta, it can feel that its status
0:23:47 > 0:23:50overall is out of their hands because it's the EU.
0:23:50 > 0:23:51You've been there?
0:23:51 > 0:23:52I have, it's a wonderful place.
0:23:52 > 0:23:53That harbour is very beautiful.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56They took a huge pounding during the war from the Nazis?
0:23:56 > 0:23:58They did, proportionally the highest in Europe,
0:23:58 > 0:23:59in the world, actually.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01The number of bombs that fell on them.
0:24:01 > 0:24:02Great people, a lot of history.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04I am a great fan of Malta.
0:24:04 > 0:24:07I think there is a bit of a contest between its
0:24:07 > 0:24:09British history and the EU.
0:24:09 > 0:24:10It has changed quite a lot.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13There is not a sign that they want to leave?
0:24:13 > 0:24:15It was a close-run vote at the time.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17But that has been resolved.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20You think it is pretty settled now within the EU?
0:24:20 > 0:24:23Yes, I think it is settled within the European Union.
0:24:23 > 0:24:33It has a voice there.
0:24:33 > 0:24:39It is the deceit of the European Asylum support office now.
0:24:39 > 0:24:49Therefore, it really feels that the solution to problems around
0:24:49 > 0:24:50around, whether it's migration, climate or whatever
0:24:50 > 0:24:52are very much within the EU.
0:24:52 > 0:24:54So they are not going to follow Britain?
0:24:54 > 0:24:57No, we might follow them, though, because they are very crowded.
0:24:57 > 0:25:04Migration policies get out of control.
0:25:04 > 0:25:10We might be as crowded as Malta.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13Fans of Game of Thrones may have noticed that some of the scenes
0:25:13 > 0:25:16there are shot in Malta.
0:25:16 > 0:25:19They are the not rainy bits that are in Malta.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21The rainy bits are in Northern Ireland.
0:25:21 > 0:25:22That's it for now.
0:25:22 > 0:25:23Thanks for joining us.
0:25:23 > 0:25:37Bye bye.
0:25:37 > 0:25:37Hello there.