0:00:00 > 0:00:04But first it is Politics Europe.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42Hello, and welcome to Politics Europe, your regular guide to the
0:00:42 > 0:00:47top stories in Brussels and Strasbourg.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49On today's programme: The Panama Papers laid bare
0:00:49 > 0:00:52the secretive world of tax havens.
0:00:52 > 0:00:57Can an EU deal on tax transparency crack down on evasion and avoidance?
0:00:57 > 0:00:59A new deal to share information about airline passengers between EU
0:00:59 > 0:01:02member states.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05But is it an important measure to improve security, or an
0:01:05 > 0:01:12infringement of citizens' privacy?
0:01:12 > 0:01:16Malta's links with Britain stretch back centuries.
0:01:16 > 0:01:20So what do expats there think about the prospect
0:01:20 > 0:01:25of the UK leaving the EU?
0:01:25 > 0:01:28And we take a look at the city-state that is home to some
0:01:28 > 0:01:36of the EU's biggest institutions.
0:01:36 > 0:01:42So all that to come, and more, in the next half-hour.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44First, though, this week members of the European Parliament have
0:01:44 > 0:01:46been meeting at Strasbourg for their regular plenary session.
0:01:46 > 0:01:50So what have they been getting up to, and what else has been
0:01:50 > 0:01:51happening over in Brussels?
0:01:51 > 0:01:56Here is our guide to the latest from Europe in just 60 seconds.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59Responding to the Panama Papers revelations, the EU announced
0:01:59 > 0:02:01bumped-up measures on tax avoidance.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04They want to leave big businesses with nowhere to hide,
0:02:04 > 0:02:07forcing them to declare how much corporation tax they pay outside
0:02:07 > 0:02:13the EU, including in tax havens.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15The migrant crisis goes on, with Italian coastguards rescuing
0:02:16 > 0:02:204,000 migrants in just two days.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22And Austria's strengthening of its border controls caused
0:02:22 > 0:02:24tension between bureaucrats and member states.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26This as EU officials, including Council President Donald
0:02:26 > 0:02:30Tusk, appeared in front of MEPs on Wednesday to defend
0:02:30 > 0:02:36the controversial deal to return migrants to Turkey.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39Protestors in Paris spent a second week sleeping out in the Place de la
0:02:39 > 0:02:44Republique, expressing anger over their government's labour reforms.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47But Paris wasn't the only place that tempers flared.
0:02:47 > 0:02:51British MEP Syed Kamall perhaps didn't mean to be caught making this
0:02:51 > 0:03:02rather rude hand gesture during a European Parliament session.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05And with us for the next 30 minutes, I'm joined by two MEPs,
0:03:05 > 0:03:09the Conservative Timothy Kirkhope and Ukip's Gerard Batten.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11Welcome to the programme to both of you.
0:03:11 > 0:03:12Hello, Andrew.
0:03:12 > 0:03:14Let's look at one of these stories in more detail,
0:03:14 > 0:03:18that is the EU's efforts to crack down on tax avoidance and evasion.
0:03:18 > 0:03:25And Timothy Kirkhope, as I understand, they are now saying big
0:03:25 > 0:03:28corporations should include details of the finances that they have
0:03:28 > 0:03:32parked or operating in tax havens if they want to trade with the EU.
0:03:32 > 0:03:33Is that the right thing to do?
0:03:33 > 0:03:35I think it is.
0:03:35 > 0:03:39I think it's right that we should have far more transparency now.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42I think there's an understanding that they have real concerns over
0:03:42 > 0:03:48these - these tax havens, wherever they might be, and I'm very
0:03:48 > 0:03:51encouraged by not only the attitude we are taking in Europe, but also
0:03:51 > 0:03:53the attitude taken by Chancellor George Osborne with
0:03:53 > 0:03:57his colleagues, in the meeting he is having this week at the IMF.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Is the EU sure that it doesn't have, or has done enough
0:04:00 > 0:04:02about the tax havens in its midst?
0:04:02 > 0:04:08I think of Luxembourg, or even, some people say, Ireland?
0:04:08 > 0:04:11I think it's made a lot of progress on that, actually.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14I mean, one of the problems we have, of course, as Conservatives there,
0:04:14 > 0:04:17is we don't want to see tax harmonisation as coming in
0:04:17 > 0:04:18on the back of this crackdown.
0:04:18 > 0:04:22We need to separate the two, and that's one of the reasons why we
0:04:22 > 0:04:28sometimes have difficulty with some of the things that are put forward,
0:04:28 > 0:04:30the proposals from the Commission in the European Parliament.
0:04:30 > 0:04:32What is your view on this?
0:04:32 > 0:04:34Well, we wouldn't have any objection to an international
0:04:34 > 0:04:37system where countries actually get together to do this kind of thing.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39Most of the tax havens are being...
0:04:39 > 0:04:41Are moving outside the EU now, from Liechtenstein and Switzerland,
0:04:41 > 0:04:44because the EU has started to clamp down on them.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47The danger is that if you don't have an international system,
0:04:47 > 0:04:49they just move out and do their business elsewhere anyway, and you
0:04:50 > 0:04:51don't get any taxation from them.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54But in some of the advances that have been made, that have gone
0:04:54 > 0:04:57global, which the OECD has done, in that area, a lot of them
0:04:58 > 0:04:59originally started in the EU.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03As in, the EU played a role in beginning what we might call
0:05:03 > 0:05:06best practice, or doing things which we know can't be resolved,
0:05:06 > 0:05:09even at a European level alone, but it started the ball rolling.
0:05:09 > 0:05:16Well, I think the EU is not supposed to be concerned with tax.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19It's supposed to be one of the red lines that we're not
0:05:19 > 0:05:21going to cross, to allow itself to be involved in taxation,
0:05:21 > 0:05:25but that line has already been crossed with this type of thing.
0:05:25 > 0:05:27When the EU does anything, it's all about
0:05:27 > 0:05:29its long-term ambitions to create more power for itself.
0:05:29 > 0:05:33So I think while it may initially seem like a good thing, you have to
0:05:33 > 0:05:35look at the EU's longer-term plans.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37The EU shouldn't help to make sure that
0:05:37 > 0:05:40the member states are able to gather the tax revenues that is their due?
0:05:40 > 0:05:43Well, I think that's again - that's something that should be done on
0:05:43 > 0:05:47an international level, because if the USA's out of it and China's out
0:05:47 > 0:05:50of it, and Russia's out of it, then of course you're only going to have
0:05:50 > 0:05:52a partial solution to the problem.
0:05:52 > 0:05:54Yeah, but I mean, look, working together with
0:05:54 > 0:05:57our colleagues in Europe is going to be very fruitful on this.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00I think it really shows a good example to the world, and the fact
0:06:00 > 0:06:04that we've got five nations, as I say, now agreed on taking much
0:06:04 > 0:06:06stronger steps to avoid this tax evasion...
0:06:06 > 0:06:08You accept if others don't join in, though, it will be very...
0:06:08 > 0:06:12It won't be as groundbreaking as the Chancellor is trying to make out.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15Not as ideal, but of course, as you say, the EU is
0:06:15 > 0:06:16a very good starting point here.
0:06:16 > 0:06:20It's a very good example of working together to achieve.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23One of the ways to avoid aggressive tax avoidance is to actually have
0:06:23 > 0:06:27less taxation, have a flat tax system where it is much simpler
0:06:27 > 0:06:30and easier for people to understand, and then I think people will be
0:06:30 > 0:06:32more willing to pay the tax.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34Very well.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37Now, MEPs voted this week to set up a joint system for police
0:06:37 > 0:06:39and justice officials to access airline passenger data covering all
0:06:39 > 0:06:41flights to and from the EU.
0:06:41 > 0:06:42So how would it work?
0:06:42 > 0:06:44Passenger name record data includes names, contact details, itinerary,
0:06:44 > 0:06:47the credit card used for payment, and baggage information,
0:06:47 > 0:06:49along with passport details.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53It will not include a person's race or ethnic origin, religion,
0:06:53 > 0:06:57political opinion, trade union membership, health, or sexuality.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00This data is routinely collected by the airlines, but the EU is planning
0:07:00 > 0:07:04to set up passenger information units in each EU member state to
0:07:04 > 0:07:09collect the information instead.
0:07:09 > 0:07:13The units will be able to keep this data for up to five years, and they
0:07:13 > 0:07:16can pass the data on to law enforcement officials only in cases
0:07:16 > 0:07:18of terrorism or serious crime.
0:07:18 > 0:07:23Now, this already happens in the UK.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26Critics are concerned over privacy and the length of time, five years,
0:07:26 > 0:07:29that the data can be stored.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32But supporters argue that it is important to have a common high
0:07:32 > 0:07:35standard, and that this is less information than you would be giving
0:07:35 > 0:07:39in your airline loyalty card.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42Now, I fly a lot to the United States, and I'm always aware
0:07:42 > 0:07:45that you have to give all this advance passenger information, and I
0:07:45 > 0:07:49know that goes to the US border force equivalent, and if there was
0:07:49 > 0:07:57something dodgy, that would stop me going to the United States before I
0:07:57 > 0:07:58even got on the plane.
0:07:58 > 0:08:00I think a lot of people would be surprised that
0:08:01 > 0:08:02that doesn't happen in Europe.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04Well, I've been working - it's my report, this.
0:08:04 > 0:08:08And I have been working on it for five years now, and having to deal
0:08:08 > 0:08:09with quite a lot of opposition, mostly
0:08:09 > 0:08:13based on the fact that individual data and privacy is something which
0:08:13 > 0:08:15obviously we're concerned about, but some groups believe that
0:08:15 > 0:08:17takes priority over security.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20We have an agreement with the United States, about three years ago
0:08:20 > 0:08:22we entered into that agreement.
0:08:22 > 0:08:26"We" being the EU.
0:08:26 > 0:08:27Yes, the EU, of course.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30Because that is the only way in which you can operate.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32Because the Americans wouldn't let you fly otherwise, would they?
0:08:32 > 0:08:33That's absolutely correct.
0:08:33 > 0:08:34And international crime is international.
0:08:34 > 0:08:36Terrorism doesn't respect borders at all.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39But of course, patterns of activity, which is what these proposals are
0:08:39 > 0:08:41designed to deal with, patterns of activity are enormously important
0:08:41 > 0:08:44for our intelligence agencies and police, and I'm absolutely
0:08:44 > 0:08:46delighted, delighted that we got the vote this
0:08:46 > 0:08:56week to get this thing approved.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58Parliament finally approved it.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00There has been resistance in the Parliament.
0:09:00 > 0:09:05Well, as I said, five years, it is taken ten years of my
0:09:05 > 0:09:07life. And it is important, this is not a silver bullet.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10But this is a very important tool to give us
0:09:10 > 0:09:13greater security when we travel, and not only when we travel, but
0:09:13 > 0:09:15when we are actually on the ground.
0:09:15 > 0:09:16What's your view on this?
0:09:16 > 0:09:18Quite a large section of the Parliament voted against it,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21there are about 179 MEPs yesterday voted against it.
0:09:21 > 0:09:2230%.
0:09:22 > 0:09:23Almost a third voted against it.
0:09:23 > 0:09:24Including yourself.
0:09:24 > 0:09:25Did you vote against it?
0:09:25 > 0:09:26Absolutely, I did indeed.
0:09:26 > 0:09:27Why was that?
0:09:27 > 0:09:29Because we have a passenger name recognition system
0:09:29 > 0:09:32in the UK, which we share with other people, and other countries have
0:09:32 > 0:09:33systems which they share.
0:09:33 > 0:09:36But this gives an enormous amount of personal information, which on the
0:09:36 > 0:09:39basis of common recognition, which means we accept all EU countries are
0:09:39 > 0:09:42on an equal level, we are going to give access to that information to
0:09:42 > 0:09:45institutionally corrupt countries like Romania and Bulgaria, and we
0:09:45 > 0:09:47don't feel that that is a good idea.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49What are they going to do with it?
0:09:49 > 0:09:51Well, who knows what they can do with it?
0:09:51 > 0:09:53We know that even in our own country, Andrew,
0:09:53 > 0:09:55that Government-held information on citizens often goes amiss.
0:09:55 > 0:09:56Yes, it's true.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59They can lose it, but how do they misuse that?
0:09:59 > 0:10:01Well, it could be misused for criminal purposes,
0:10:01 > 0:10:03if someone can gain access to that.
0:10:03 > 0:10:04Just one other thing...
0:10:04 > 0:10:07Let him answer that, and then I will come back.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10I just want to deal with this, because this is quite ridiculous.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13I do wonder why...
0:10:13 > 0:10:16I think it's because the term EU is in the title,
0:10:16 > 0:10:18that's why you automatically seem to vote against these things.
0:10:18 > 0:10:21But this is an international situation which we have very tight
0:10:21 > 0:10:24safeguards, quality standards, a lot of them based on the British system,
0:10:24 > 0:10:25which has been in existence.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28But instead of these ridiculous, slow-moving bilaterals to get
0:10:28 > 0:10:30information about suspicious people travelling, from now on, under these
0:10:30 > 0:10:34very strict rules and controls, we are going to be able to move
0:10:34 > 0:10:36information fast, as fast as terrorists can move,
0:10:36 > 0:10:37and faster than criminals can move.
0:10:37 > 0:10:38That's the key.
0:10:38 > 0:10:40We really have to do it together.
0:10:40 > 0:10:42What was the other point you wanted to make?
0:10:42 > 0:10:45Well, terrorists have moved on now, and they realised they can be
0:10:45 > 0:10:46tracked in this way.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48And so therefore we've seen in the Paris attacks
0:10:48 > 0:10:52and the Brussels attacks that they do things in a different way.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55The biggest problem to security is the Schengen open-borders,
0:10:55 > 0:10:57and the fact that people can move across Europe freely,
0:10:57 > 0:11:00and they can get into Europe on forged papers, for example, and...
0:11:00 > 0:11:04But that's not a reason, surely, for not doing what is being proposed, is
0:11:04 > 0:11:05it?
0:11:05 > 0:11:08I mean, it's perfectly true that if you close one area then it can
0:11:08 > 0:11:12open other areas, but it is not a reason for not doing it.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15It seems to have worked pretty well on the transatlantic side of things,
0:11:15 > 0:11:16between the EU and America.
0:11:16 > 0:11:17Should we not...
0:11:17 > 0:11:21If we are better protected that way as we cross the Atlantic, should we
0:11:21 > 0:11:24not have the equivalent safeguards if I fly, say, from Nice to Berlin?
0:11:24 > 0:11:31Well, again, we do this, and we do it with countries we can trust
0:11:31 > 0:11:32and we share that information.
0:11:32 > 0:11:34We cannot trust all the countries in the EU.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37Can I give you a point that illustrates this about
0:11:37 > 0:11:40this common recognition fallacy?
0:11:40 > 0:11:43We have a European arrest warrant where anybody can shipped
0:11:43 > 0:11:46off to any other country on the strength of a piece of paper.
0:11:46 > 0:11:48The European Court of Human Rights, I think it was,
0:11:48 > 0:11:54has just recently issued a judgement that says we now can't send people
0:11:54 > 0:11:57back - foreigners, British citizens, to serve their sentence in their own
0:11:57 > 0:12:00country, because of human rights.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03But you see, this common recognition thing, we are not all of the same
0:12:03 > 0:12:05level.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08Is it necessary for the authorities to keep the data for five years?
0:12:08 > 0:12:11Well, it is anonymised after six months, I think a lot of people
0:12:11 > 0:12:13haven't caught on that, because then it becomes statistically
0:12:13 > 0:12:18important but not specifically.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20Can you still see a trend then, if it's anonymised?
0:12:20 > 0:12:22You can still see a trend.
0:12:22 > 0:12:23What's the point of anonymising it?
0:12:23 > 0:12:26Well, I think the intelligence agencies are looking at patterns
0:12:26 > 0:12:26and developing patterns.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28This is the key to intelligence, actually.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31So you would still know I had made a trip,
0:12:31 > 0:12:32but you wouldn't know it was me?
0:12:32 > 0:12:35You knew the trips had been using certain routes.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37You had mentioned going straight to a European city from outside.
0:12:37 > 0:12:40What of course people are doing, and will continue to do,
0:12:40 > 0:12:43is to do indirect sets of travels, maybe from Istanbul to Stockholm,
0:12:43 > 0:12:46to Madrid, to Berlin, maybe to attack Paris or London.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49And I think that our own PNR system, as Gerard said, has been very
0:12:49 > 0:12:55successful but it is having to rely on bilaterals, occasionally.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58It's not good enough to try and deal with
0:12:58 > 0:12:59the modern threats that we have.
0:12:59 > 0:13:00When does it come in?
0:13:00 > 0:13:02It's coming in very quickly, within two years.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05But in fact, I'm hoping that we will be operating
0:13:05 > 0:13:07a lot of it within months.
0:13:07 > 0:13:08All right.
0:13:08 > 0:13:09Now, David Cameron called a once-in-a-generation decision.
0:13:09 > 0:13:13Should we stay in the European Union?
0:13:13 > 0:13:15Will we still have access to the single market?
0:13:15 > 0:13:17If we leave, would we be able to curb migration?
0:13:17 > 0:13:20But perhaps some of those people most affected by the
0:13:20 > 0:13:23decision are the 2 million Brits living on the rest of the European
0:13:23 > 0:13:27Union, many of whom won't be able to vote in the upcoming referendum.
0:13:27 > 0:13:32Our Adam has been to Malta to meet some of them.
0:13:34 > 0:13:40The Maltese are celebrating the UK leaving.
0:13:40 > 0:13:43It's the Freedom Day bank holiday, which commemorates the moment
0:13:43 > 0:13:47in 1979 when British troops left these islands.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50But the truth is, the Brits never really left.
0:13:50 > 0:14:00There are still 12,000 of them living here.
0:14:00 > 0:14:02Come with me to meet some of them.
0:14:02 > 0:14:08Like Amanda, who is an executive coach.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11She thinks the European Union makes sense for trade, but she worked on
0:14:11 > 0:14:14an EU project that did not seem like value for money,
0:14:14 > 0:14:14leaving her conflicted.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17I've benefited from living and working across the EU.
0:14:17 > 0:14:18I like to travel across the EU.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21And then I'm thinking, as humans, we like the status quo.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23We kind of tend towards that.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26So I do need to just check that what I'm taking for granted,
0:14:26 > 0:14:31and the assumptions I'm making, do actually make sense.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34Some longer term residents, like Peter, can't vote because they have
0:14:34 > 0:14:36lived abroad for more than 15 years.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38I'm actually quite annoyed about it.
0:14:38 > 0:14:42I would like to have some say.
0:14:42 > 0:14:47I'm still paying my taxes in the UK, and I've always paid them there, so
0:14:47 > 0:14:51I think perhaps I should have a vote no matter how long I've been away.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53Among other retirees, the arguments sound just like the ones
0:14:53 > 0:14:55you'd hear in the pub back home.
0:14:55 > 0:14:59I don't really know what I want to know about it.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02I feel the politicians, the ones that want to come out,
0:15:02 > 0:15:06are telling you the scaremongering about staying in, and the ones that
0:15:06 > 0:15:09want to stay in are giving you the scaremongering about coming out.
0:15:09 > 0:15:14So you're only getting the bad points and not the good points.
0:15:14 > 0:15:19My gut reaction is better the devil you know, stay in.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22We like to obey the laws, but sometimes a lot
0:15:22 > 0:15:26of the things which are coming out, they seem to be making things up
0:15:26 > 0:15:32as they go along sometimes.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36You say the UK should make its own laws, you have left the UK.
0:15:36 > 0:15:43Yes, I know, but I go back very often and I'm very loyal.
0:15:43 > 0:15:47By the way, I am a royalist.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50There are a few exclusively expat worries, though.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54I had a look on the internet, and one
0:15:54 > 0:15:56of the things is they were talking about the retirement pension.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01They might have to freeze that.
0:16:01 > 0:16:04You'll get your pension but they might not give you any
0:16:04 > 0:16:07of the increases over the years, like we do in England.
0:16:07 > 0:16:09It is just the pension, that is all I'm worried about.
0:16:09 > 0:16:16On Freedom Day, the Maltese Prime Minister visits this memorial.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18He has tried to be reassuring.
0:16:18 > 0:16:22He says British people's healthcare in Malta is covered
0:16:22 > 0:16:26by an agreement signed by the two countries before either was in the
0:16:26 > 0:16:30EU, and the tax system is generous to people with a foreign pension.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33And at this swish law firm housed in an old palace,
0:16:33 > 0:16:37they are not getting calls from worried Brits in Malta, instead
0:16:37 > 0:16:40it is worried Brits in Britain.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43These are generally people, whether British or otherwise, living in
0:16:43 > 0:16:48London, which for them is possibly the European capital of financial
0:16:48 > 0:16:52services, who previously relied on London being not only London, but
0:16:52 > 0:16:55also part of the European Union, and will now need to look
0:16:55 > 0:16:57for another central European city which is friendly to financial
0:16:57 > 0:17:00services, but offers the same kind of general pro-business environment
0:17:00 > 0:17:05for doing business.
0:17:05 > 0:17:10Of course Malta offers more than that - even in the mild climate,
0:17:10 > 0:17:14the sun and the sea and the Mediterranean way of life.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17Malta has obvious links with the UK, making people here seem pretty
0:17:17 > 0:17:23relaxed about the referendum, and globally just 106,000 expats are
0:17:23 > 0:17:25on the electoral roll, which suggests postal votes won't have
0:17:25 > 0:17:30a massive impact on the result.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37Should British expats who are living in the EU and still British citizens
0:17:37 > 0:17:41have a vote in this referendum?
0:17:41 > 0:17:45I would like them to have the vote.
0:17:45 > 0:17:46But they won't?
0:17:46 > 0:17:48I don't think so.
0:17:48 > 0:17:50I don't think they will change the voting system specifically for
0:17:50 > 0:17:55this, but I think it would have been a good idea for them to have a say.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57They are a component, living in Europe, and they are British.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59Should they?
0:17:59 > 0:18:02I think the cut-off was 15 years.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06I wouldn't have too much trouble with people...
0:18:06 > 0:18:10If you have been away for 15 years, then you lose the right to vote?
0:18:10 > 0:18:15There has to be a cut-off point, and I think that is a fair one.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18But I would not particularly have an objection to them voting if they
0:18:18 > 0:18:20have recently left the country.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24For the kind of expats we saw in Malta, many more obviously in
0:18:24 > 0:18:31Spain, France, if we were to leave, are they not right to be worried
0:18:31 > 0:18:40about their residency status, access to healthcare and so on?
0:18:40 > 0:18:42There have always been British people living abroad
0:18:42 > 0:18:43in different countries.
0:18:43 > 0:18:48There are more than 2.5 times the amount of Europeans living
0:18:48 > 0:18:51in our country as there are British people living in the EU.
0:18:51 > 0:18:56They will continue to have their property rights protected
0:18:56 > 0:18:58under the European Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01People can't just throw them out of the country because they are
0:19:01 > 0:19:05annoyed at Britain leaving the EU, and we will not do anything to the
0:19:05 > 0:19:06Europeans living in our country.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09And as for health services, we have reciprocal arrangements
0:19:09 > 0:19:11already, we had them before...
0:19:11 > 0:19:12You think they will continue?
0:19:12 > 0:19:14There is no reason why it shouldn't.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17You always say the same thing, Gerard.
0:19:17 > 0:19:21"There is no reason why there should be," - there is actually quite a lot
0:19:21 > 0:19:24of reasoning why it would not be.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28If we are not part of the EU, we are essentially at the mercy
0:19:28 > 0:19:30of the different states.
0:19:30 > 0:19:31Malta may have a positive attitude because
0:19:31 > 0:19:35of its history and background linked to Britain and so on, but a lot
0:19:35 > 0:19:36of other countries do not.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39And won't.
0:19:39 > 0:19:45I think therefore it is a rash thing to tell the public that it should be
0:19:45 > 0:19:47On the health issue, a lot of European countries don't
0:19:47 > 0:19:52have equivalent health services.
0:19:52 > 0:19:55If you live somewhere like Greece, you either have to pay or have
0:19:55 > 0:19:56health insurance anyway.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59In terms of reciprocal arrangements we've got, Britain actually pays far
0:19:59 > 0:20:02more out to the European Union than we get back in terms of this.
0:20:02 > 0:20:07Recent figures show we spent about ?683 million to the EU,
0:20:07 > 0:20:11while we got ?50 million back.
0:20:11 > 0:20:15These are published figures.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18So you say nothing will change.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21You think there is a danger?
0:20:21 > 0:20:23I think there is a massive danger.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25It is not scaremongering, it is just a reality.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28We'll hear a lot more of this.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31It is one of the EU's smallest countries, but its
0:20:31 > 0:20:33size perhaps belies its influence.
0:20:33 > 0:20:38It is the home of the European Court of Justice, and its former
0:20:38 > 0:20:40Prime Minister, Jean-Claude Juncker, is now president of the
0:20:40 > 0:20:42European Commission.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46Adam has been to meet the neighbours in Luxembourg.
0:20:57 > 0:21:07A morning at the stables, except it's actually the airport.
0:21:07 > 0:21:09Luxembourg's freight-only airline, the biggest of its kind in Europe,
0:21:09 > 0:21:11specialises in exporting expensive horses, around 3000 a year
0:21:11 > 0:21:16at thousands of euros each.
0:21:16 > 0:21:18Welcome to horse business class.
0:21:18 > 0:21:20They travel in this specially designed container, three stalls,
0:21:20 > 0:21:23one for each horse.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26Wood shavings on the ground so it feels like stables back home.
0:21:26 > 0:21:31And a door so the groom can check on the animals during the flight.
0:21:31 > 0:21:35There is a groom on hand with food, water and a vet at each end
0:21:35 > 0:21:38of the flight.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40We have a stop in Prestwick.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43We have a stop in LA, then in Seattle, then
0:21:43 > 0:21:45the final destination is Calgary.
0:21:45 > 0:21:46When will they arrive in Canada?
0:21:46 > 0:21:49I think tomorrow in the afternoon.
0:21:49 > 0:21:51So it's a long flight.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53Yes, it is a long flight.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55It is not just horses.
0:21:55 > 0:22:01They have flown a pack of huskies, a giraffe, and even a whale.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04All of this is very Luxembourg, in other words,
0:22:04 > 0:22:09looking after assets for fairly wealthy people who live elsewhere.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12A tradition that has made this tiny country very big news.
0:22:12 > 0:22:17Two years ago, a cache of leaked documents showed hundreds
0:22:17 > 0:22:19of multinational companies enjoyed minuscule tax rates here, a scandal
0:22:19 > 0:22:26that came to be known as Lux Leaks.
0:22:26 > 0:22:31I went to a little town to meet the Mayor, who is also the general
0:22:31 > 0:22:33secretary of the Christian Social People's Party, which has provided
0:22:33 > 0:22:37most of Luxembourg's leaders since the Second World War.
0:22:37 > 0:22:41Are you worried Luxembourg sometimes looks like the Panama of Europe?
0:22:41 > 0:22:45I hope people won't see us as the Panama of Europe, because we
0:22:45 > 0:22:48are not the Panama of Europe.
0:22:48 > 0:22:55Of course the Lux Leaks put us into a light which is not quite
0:22:55 > 0:22:58right, but a lot of things changed, and I think when we compare us to
0:22:58 > 0:23:04the city of London, we don't have to be ashamed of ourselves.
0:23:04 > 0:23:07Ouch.
0:23:07 > 0:23:10He is also pals with the former Prime Minister, Jean-Claude Juncker,
0:23:10 > 0:23:16who is now president of the European Commission.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19What do you on a night with the Junckers?
0:23:19 > 0:23:20It is like a machine.
0:23:20 > 0:23:26You find it a lot in pubs, and you have...
0:23:26 > 0:23:29You have the pinball going around.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31Jean-Claude Juncker is a fan of pinball machines.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33Yes, that's right.
0:23:33 > 0:23:38He's got one at his house and he likes to play with it.
0:23:38 > 0:23:40And as for our four-legged friends, they are ready
0:23:40 > 0:23:42for takeoff to Canada.
0:23:42 > 0:23:46I hope they pay attention to the safety demonstration.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51Many of the companies that we are criticising not paying enough tax
0:23:51 > 0:23:54in Britain, such as Google and Amazon, and not doing so because
0:23:54 > 0:23:57they are based in Luxembourg.
0:23:57 > 0:23:59Many of these arrangements were put in place when Jean-Claude Juncker
0:23:59 > 0:24:01was Prime Minister.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04Are we not right to be suspicious?
0:24:04 > 0:24:09I think it is a natural inclination of the British to be suspicious.
0:24:09 > 0:24:10It's not fair either.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14I think they are cleaning up their act a lot.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16The whole way in which these things are moving does
0:24:16 > 0:24:19not favour anybody just because it happens to be a place
0:24:19 > 0:24:22where Jean-Claude Juncker lives.
0:24:22 > 0:24:26The man who put a lot of this in place is now the man supposed to
0:24:26 > 0:24:27be cleaning it up.
0:24:27 > 0:24:28A slight irony, perhaps.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30Irony?
0:24:30 > 0:24:31What do you say?
0:24:31 > 0:24:34We were very amused in the European Parliament when this
0:24:34 > 0:24:41subject came up, and of course Mr Juncker presided over all of this.
0:24:41 > 0:24:44Now he is telling the rest of Europe to clean up their act.
0:24:44 > 0:24:48Of course Luxembourg is the kind of HQ of the European Union,
0:24:48 > 0:24:51the second HQ apart from Brussels, and about the biggest beneficiary
0:24:51 > 0:24:53per capita of the EU budget.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57They get a lot of money out of it.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59There is a third Parliament there which is
0:24:59 > 0:25:03mothballed, but we still pay millions every year for the upkeep.
0:25:03 > 0:25:05A lot of people have nostalgia for Luxembourg.
0:25:05 > 0:25:12A lovely programme on Radio Luxembourg.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15What does that have to do with companies not paying tax?
0:25:15 > 0:25:24It's the genuine fatcat HQ.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27It is, and it is still a place where taxes are very low.
0:25:27 > 0:25:28Yes, that's true.
0:25:28 > 0:25:29It is an unusual country.
0:25:29 > 0:25:33Companies will go there until something is done.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35We are in favour of having a competitive tax system
0:25:35 > 0:25:38in Europe, and hopefully our own taxes will attract a lot
0:25:38 > 0:25:43of companies to be in Britain, as long as we are in the EU.
0:25:43 > 0:25:45Not if they are running the tax regime.
0:25:45 > 0:25:46We will leave it there.
0:25:46 > 0:25:47That is it for now.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49We say goodbye from Politics Europe.
0:25:49 > 0:25:50See you soon.
0:25:50 > 0:25:54Goodbye.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08Hello.
0:26:08 > 0:26:10Dry conditions overnight with clearer skies and lighter winds -
0:26:10 > 0:26:14a recipe, even in the middle of April, for a touch of frost around.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17Given the air is so cold at the moment, a widespread frost and for
0:26:17 > 0:26:20some a cold start to Sunday morning.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22Temperatures away from city centres below freezing,