0:00:01 > 0:00:05Now on BBC News, Politics Europe.
0:00:38 > 0:00:42Hello and welcome to Politics Europe,
0:00:42 > 0:00:51your regular guide to the top stories in Brussels and Strasbourg.
0:00:51 > 0:00:58As Putin prepares for the expulsions of former Russian nation, will the
0:00:58 > 0:01:04EU increase sanctions on the Soviet state? Does the EU have its very own
0:01:04 > 0:01:09Frank Underwood? We will delve inside the shady world of European
0:01:09 > 0:01:14bureaucrats. As Britain's relationship with Russia reaches
0:01:14 > 0:01:18those not seen since the Cold War, the Russian embassy has upped it
0:01:18 > 0:01:27came on Twitter. Is social media a new diplomatic weapon? All that to
0:01:27 > 0:01:32come and more in the next half an hour. Joining me for all of it is
0:01:32 > 0:01:37Ian Dale and Rachel Sylvester. First, here is our guide to the
0:01:37 > 0:01:46latest from Europe in just 60 seconds. This week, MEPs voted in
0:01:46 > 0:01:50favour of setting up recommendations for future relationship with UK. The
0:01:50 > 0:01:56draft text has now been to London. Meanwhile, European Commission
0:01:56 > 0:02:00President told Parliament that the UK would regret Brexit to the
0:02:00 > 0:02:06amusement of Eurosceptics.You will respect -- regret your decision.It
0:02:06 > 0:02:09has emerged a European Parliament delegation has been conducting
0:02:09 > 0:02:13secret talks with North Korea to try and persuade them to end their
0:02:13 > 0:02:20nuclear programme. Elsewhere, Slovak p.m. Resigned after weeks of turmoil
0:02:20 > 0:02:22sparked by the murder of an investigator journalist who had
0:02:22 > 0:02:26raised questions about his judgement after it was alleged a close aide
0:02:26 > 0:02:31had links to the mafia. Millions of Europeans may have been running late
0:02:31 > 0:02:34since mid-January following an electrical dispute between Kosovo
0:02:34 > 0:02:40and Serbia, causing Cox to lag behind by up to six minutes across
0:02:40 > 0:02:4325 countries. -- causing clocks.
0:02:46 > 0:02:54That's picked up after that.Will we regret Brexit? He has to say that
0:02:54 > 0:02:59because the EU has to hope that we regret Brexit or others may want to
0:02:59 > 0:03:04follow suit. Of course he will say that. Some of the reaction has been
0:03:04 > 0:03:07slightly over the top. It is what we expect him to say. It is not
0:03:07 > 0:03:12bullying Britain in any way at all. We would expect him to say that.
0:03:12 > 0:03:17Shouldn't he give outline a rest? We do expect it to some extent. This
0:03:17 > 0:03:23idea that we don't want to see others go the way of Britain. Just
0:03:23 > 0:03:30drop it.I think that's right. I think he's probably right. Written
0:03:30 > 0:03:37may well end up removing it. It is already proving much more
0:03:37 > 0:03:40complicated, the economic implications becoming clear, all of
0:03:40 > 0:03:45that. I think is the worst possible to say it. It sounds so arrogant, it
0:03:45 > 0:03:49is exactly what everyone voted against is being told what to do by
0:03:49 > 0:03:56the EU and some Eurocrat. Maybe he is right, but shut up, as Gavin
0:03:56 > 0:04:02Williamson might say.And go away, to finish that phrase. Do you think
0:04:02 > 0:04:07as you have said, actually, people just have priced it in.I think
0:04:07 > 0:04:13people factor it in. I think what is more interesting is what gave the
0:04:13 > 0:04:18whole state is saying. If you look at his tweets and statements over
0:04:18 > 0:04:23the past couple of weeks, they are very different to what he was saying
0:04:23 > 0:04:26six months ago. Much went arrested in getting the right deal, much more
0:04:26 > 0:04:31positive, much more constructive than he has been. He was one of the
0:04:31 > 0:04:35first to come to Britain's support over Russia as well. I think that
0:04:35 > 0:04:38people on my side of the argument need to actually recognise that
0:04:38 > 0:04:44there is a little bit of a change with some people and we should also
0:04:44 > 0:04:47be very open in thinking European countries for their support over
0:04:47 > 0:04:51Russia because that wasn't necessarily a given, and France and
0:04:51 > 0:04:56Germany hadn't come so strongly and Denmark as well, of course, Rachel
0:04:56 > 0:05:03would be writing: is saying it is all due to Brexit and it is what we
0:05:03 > 0:05:07can look forward to in the future. Let's discuss the relationship.
0:05:07 > 0:05:13There has only been one big story in town this week, and that is of the
0:05:13 > 0:05:17poisoning of surrogate scruple and his daughter. They have expelled
0:05:17 > 0:05:21diplomats and they are expecting the same to happen to diplomats in
0:05:21 > 0:05:29Russia. We await the retaliation. What will the EU do? A previous
0:05:29 > 0:05:34candidate to be thin and's Prime Minister is in Brussels. What do you
0:05:34 > 0:05:43make of the European Union's response to the poisoning?We are
0:05:43 > 0:05:47going to see very different approach is because some of the country is
0:05:47 > 0:05:55won't be criticising Russia very severely. At the same time, I think
0:05:55 > 0:06:03almost a clear majority will feel themselves very much pushed in a
0:06:03 > 0:06:09direction where they had to stand up for the values and for member
0:06:09 > 0:06:14states, even if it is the member state who is about to leave. So I
0:06:14 > 0:06:18think we are going to discuss this in the Parliament in the next
0:06:18 > 0:06:23session and I think the verdict will be pretty harsh.Pretty harsh in
0:06:23 > 0:06:35terms of the stance against Russia? Well, we have a lot of indications
0:06:35 > 0:06:44in this case, Russian security agencies have killed their former
0:06:44 > 0:06:52agent earlier, that is almost a question of honour for them, so the
0:06:52 > 0:06:59only one who could actually be interested in getting rid of Skripal
0:06:59 > 0:07:04are the Russians. We won't find a person with the smoking gun going in
0:07:04 > 0:07:09or out from the Russian embassy in London. We won't find, I am pretty
0:07:09 > 0:07:14sure we won't find a smoking gun at all. Usually when you kill persons
0:07:14 > 0:07:18like this, it is a very cynical killing because they didn't even
0:07:18 > 0:07:24care about Skripal's daughter. My guess would be that they will be a
0:07:24 > 0:07:29middleman, a lot of middlemen in between, but from my point of view,
0:07:29 > 0:07:35I think Russia should be very interested in clearing this because
0:07:35 > 0:07:43the poison, the only source for it comes from, awkward come from
0:07:43 > 0:07:50Russia. That is a small possibility during the 1990s that many weapons
0:07:50 > 0:07:57in Russia were taken apart because the State couldn't take -- pay the
0:07:57 > 0:08:03wages and the military took what they could, just almost all the
0:08:03 > 0:08:09AK-47s, around in Europe now come from these depots. There is a
0:08:09 > 0:08:16possibility that this also had this. Because of your proximity, to
0:08:16 > 0:08:21Russia, in Finland, are you afraid of Russia and Russian retaliation in
0:08:21 > 0:08:33general? No, we are probably the only country in Europe having had a
0:08:33 > 0:08:41war with Russia and still staying independent nation, so I think our
0:08:41 > 0:08:46credentials are pretty good day and I don't think we are afraid of them.
0:08:46 > 0:08:52What we should be slightly scared of in Europe in general is not very
0:08:52 > 0:08:58rational behaviour in Russia, because it's an unstable system for
0:08:58 > 0:09:03the moment. You have somebody up there, Vladimir Putin, and then you
0:09:03 > 0:09:08don't actually have machinery on which you can put any, or a much
0:09:08 > 0:09:15trust. So the system as such is unstable, and that is a problem.
0:09:15 > 0:09:19What about concrete help from the European Union? What concrete help
0:09:19 > 0:09:31could Britain expect?Well, it depends on what you need. As I said,
0:09:31 > 0:09:37we have a lot of indications about the source of this murder, but as
0:09:37 > 0:09:43also said, we won't find a gun. So what would rate -- Great Britain
0:09:43 > 0:09:48need in these times from us? I think if we go back to what we could
0:09:48 > 0:09:57offer, we could offer all the knowledge, and our services could
0:09:57 > 0:10:04fire and, and if Russia is retaliating even more in regard of
0:10:04 > 0:10:09Great Britain, then of course we have two follow-up, we have to do
0:10:09 > 0:10:13something just to show our solidarity. This might sort of go
0:10:13 > 0:10:19further.Do you think that it would have been any different's I will
0:10:19 > 0:10:23come back to you in a moment. You think there would have been a
0:10:23 > 0:10:26difference to the EU response? They have shown solidarity, if regs it
0:10:26 > 0:10:31wasn't happening?No, I don't think, I don't see what other response that
0:10:31 > 0:10:36could have been. The freight that France, Germany and the US signed
0:10:36 > 0:10:41this, which is quite strong, it is a very strong statement, and I imagine
0:10:41 > 0:10:46that a lot of the other countries would the happy to sign up to it as
0:10:46 > 0:10:49well so I don't know what else we could expect.After that it's the
0:10:49 > 0:10:54mango incident, Europe showed solidarity, but there wasn't much in
0:10:54 > 0:10:58terms of concrete measures. Are we expecting members of the European
0:10:58 > 0:11:02Union to expel their Russian diplomats? To put further sanctions
0:11:02 > 0:11:06in place? The sorts of things we should be expecting from the
0:11:06 > 0:11:09European Union?I think there could be somewhat economic sanctions. But
0:11:09 > 0:11:16I think the show of solidarity and strength is in itself very
0:11:16 > 0:11:18important, and that's that's a statement that, a multilateral
0:11:18 > 0:11:22approach is important. It does work. Even as Brexit is going along, we
0:11:22 > 0:11:26are not ever going to be able to live and operate and spend it in
0:11:26 > 0:11:32isolation. We are always going to have to rely on allies in Europe, in
0:11:32 > 0:11:35America, and I think that is incredibly important reminder at
0:11:35 > 0:11:38this very critical moment in the negotiations to both sides,
0:11:38 > 0:11:43actually.And this is a big story in other European countries. It is the
0:11:43 > 0:11:47number one story for the whole week. I think some people think it is a
0:11:47 > 0:11:54story in a small town in England.It is not. Finally, is that right? My
0:11:54 > 0:11:59other guest says it is a big story in European countries. It is a big
0:11:59 > 0:12:06story in the European Parliament?It is a big story, yes, indeed. Why?
0:12:06 > 0:12:14Because it was a very cynical murder, and all the indications we
0:12:14 > 0:12:19have are pointing at rush hour, so we should demand of them some very
0:12:19 > 0:12:25honest and some very clear answers, and if they are not able to deliver
0:12:25 > 0:12:28those answers, then we have to think about further measures and those
0:12:28 > 0:12:34measures should be European measures, not just UK measures or
0:12:34 > 0:12:38finished measures of Belgian measures, they should be European
0:12:38 > 0:12:41measures.All right. Thank you very much for joining us. They are
0:12:41 > 0:12:49critically ill, in hospital, not dead. Now, it has been described as
0:12:49 > 0:12:52a coup, and the European Union Brodtmann very own House of Cards.
0:12:52 > 0:12:57Russes bureaucrat who used to be the chief of staff has been promoted to
0:12:57 > 0:13:01be the head of the EU civil servants. The EU Commission has
0:13:01 > 0:13:06argued his appointment. The Secretary General was all above
0:13:06 > 0:13:10board. Some are timber is -- furious.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13There is something about Martin, the man who prefers life behind the
0:13:13 > 0:13:19flags rather than in front of them. As the chief of staff or four years,
0:13:19 > 0:13:23he has found himself in the front row of the news before. Either for
0:13:23 > 0:13:28his slightly scary reputation or accused of leaking details of a
0:13:28 > 0:13:32Brexit dinner in Downing Street. Now, it is big cause of his
0:13:32 > 0:13:38promotion. -- because. He has been going up in the world. He applied
0:13:38 > 0:13:42for and got the job of deputy Secretary General, and then in the
0:13:42 > 0:13:47same meeting, the Secretary General announced he was retiring and he was
0:13:47 > 0:13:52red -- transferred into his job. Summoned by MEPs to explain, the
0:13:52 > 0:13:57Commissioner for HR said it was all above order.
0:13:57 > 0:14:04TRANSLATION:Martin has all the necessary qualifications to take on
0:14:04 > 0:14:07the task of Secretary General of the commission. He has lengthy
0:14:07 > 0:14:11experience in key positions within the commission. He is an excellent
0:14:11 > 0:14:15legal expert. He is very good communication and he is certainly
0:14:15 > 0:14:19100% suitable for this position.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23But members from across the political spectrum lined up to
0:14:23 > 0:14:23criticise the
0:14:23 > 0:14:24political spectrum lined up to criticise the appointment of.
0:14:25 > 0:14:25political spectrum lined up to criticise the appointment of.
0:14:25 > 0:14:25political spectrum lined up to criticise the appointment of.This
0:14:25 > 0:14:26political spectrum lined up to criticise the appointment of.This
0:14:26 > 0:14:31destroys all of the credibility of the European Union as a champion of
0:14:31 > 0:14:35integrity and transparency and public commercial edition. At times
0:14:35 > 0:14:39when public trust in the EU is low, this is devastating and the fact
0:14:39 > 0:14:43that the commission remains deaf until the day of today to criticism
0:14:43 > 0:14:48shows how disconnected it is from reality.You should do your best to
0:14:48 > 0:14:53come out with something which is trustworthy and you should avoid any
0:14:53 > 0:14:58feeling for any impression that it was a preprepared, politically
0:14:58 > 0:15:03motivated nomination and unfortunately, I don't think that in
0:15:03 > 0:15:07this case you did your job perfectly.You can see the defeat
0:15:07 > 0:15:13etched in their faces. This is the morning after and these were the
0:15:13 > 0:15:18European Union's commissioners. To some it brings back memories of 1999
0:15:18 > 0:15:24when a report accused one of Jack Santo's accusations of cronyism and
0:15:24 > 0:15:29they all resigned en masse.I arrived here just after the fall of
0:15:29 > 0:15:32the commission and I would say this to you, that UKIP would never have
0:15:32 > 0:15:36won any seats in the European Parliament had it not been for the
0:15:36 > 0:15:42nepotism of the commission, so I would be very grateful.Does this at
0:15:42 > 0:15:47all feel like that period, could this be the start of that sort of
0:15:47 > 0:15:50thing?Nearly. What is interesting is that you have thought the
0:15:50 > 0:15:55appointment of an official to a big job be a story that would have
0:15:55 > 0:15:58stayed within Brussels and Strasbourg, actually it is out
0:15:58 > 0:16:02there. It has been talked about in the French media and training on
0:16:02 > 0:16:08Twitter.There is a lot going on in this story, some score settling, and
0:16:08 > 0:16:12the German journalism, some optimism and genuine concern and now his
0:16:12 > 0:16:15promotional bit subject of a Parliamentary enquiry with a vote at
0:16:15 > 0:16:21some point in the future. Good luck in the new job, Martin! Adam Fleming
0:16:21 > 0:16:25there with good wishes. Alex Barker in Brussels for the Financial Times
0:16:25 > 0:16:30joins us. All this fuss about Martin, is it overplayed? This is
0:16:30 > 0:16:38politics.Indeed. What makes it special is that Martin, who was
0:16:38 > 0:16:41basically a political appointment and politics is against him and so
0:16:41 > 0:16:46it brought him into the limelight in a way that he is not comfortable
0:16:46 > 0:16:53with.Jean-Claude Juncker's man, how powerful is he in this new role?I
0:16:53 > 0:16:58don't think his new role makes much difference to his power. He is
0:16:58 > 0:17:03extraordinarily powerful in terms of a chief of staff or top aid to a
0:17:03 > 0:17:09European Commission person and -- president. You have to go back to
0:17:09 > 0:17:12the days of Delors and his team to have anything equivalent to this.
0:17:12 > 0:17:18The micro managers. His cursor is over at almost every document that
0:17:18 > 0:17:24emerges out of this place. What really distinguishes him is his
0:17:24 > 0:17:28willingness to take on a public profile. I asked him once why his
0:17:28 > 0:17:33kind of methods were so tough on things, he said I cannot run the
0:17:33 > 0:17:39commission K Montessori schools. His methods, his micromanagement, his
0:17:39 > 0:17:43energy has really made him stand out in terms of a bureaucrat here.You
0:17:43 > 0:17:49have met him, what is he like?He is good company. He is quite funny. He
0:17:49 > 0:17:55is absolutely determined he can turn against you quite easily. He runs
0:17:55 > 0:18:00the place like a tight ship. He surrounds himself by people who are
0:18:00 > 0:18:05loyal to him, his top appointments in the commission at the people who
0:18:05 > 0:18:12are loyal to him. But I think the pressure he is facing is partly a
0:18:12 > 0:18:16function of unease about his boss, really, as well. Jean-Claude Juncker
0:18:16 > 0:18:22has not got the energy that some MEPs would hope a European
0:18:22 > 0:18:25Commission president would have and yet it is powerful at the same time.
0:18:25 > 0:18:31Lot of attention is turning to his aid and he is absorbing some of the
0:18:31 > 0:18:35criticism too.He is described as anything from a monster to Rasputin,
0:18:35 > 0:18:41to think are fair descriptions?I asked him that as well and he said
0:18:41 > 0:18:46that Jean-Claude Juncker is the good guy and I am the bad guy. He is an
0:18:46 > 0:18:49enforcer and for some member states, they are pleased that he is playing
0:18:49 > 0:18:54that role. This is a big unwieldy place, 30,000 odd bureaucrats here
0:18:54 > 0:19:00and he delivers for them. At times, when they have a special favour to
0:19:00 > 0:19:05ask Tom in a political problem, but it also means that he upset a lot of
0:19:05 > 0:19:09people. So, you know, there are peoples upset that there are too
0:19:09 > 0:19:14many Germans in top positions, the Germans are upset that Martin is not
0:19:14 > 0:19:19German enough. There are those who would prefer this to be a civil
0:19:19 > 0:19:23service and not run by effectively a political appointees. The coalition
0:19:23 > 0:19:30of the upset is growing and he is under quite a lot of pressure.You
0:19:30 > 0:19:34can't please all people all of the time or even any of the time. Alex
0:19:34 > 0:19:37Barker, thank you from much for joining us. While Russian British
0:19:37 > 0:19:41relations have fallen to their lowest level in decades, a very new
0:19:41 > 0:19:44type of diplomacy has been playing out on Twitter. The official account
0:19:44 > 0:19:48of the Russian Embassy in London have frequently goaded the British
0:19:48 > 0:19:51government so much so that they have been called professional trolls by
0:19:51 > 0:19:57some. In Theresa May called Russia's reaction to the poisoning affair one
0:19:57 > 0:20:02of sarcasm, content and defiance, she could have had their social
0:20:02 > 0:20:06media output in mind. After the expulsion of 23 of their own
0:20:06 > 0:20:11diplomats this week, they posted the temperature of Russian British
0:20:11 > 0:20:17relations drops to -23, but we are not afraid of cold weather. On
0:20:17 > 0:20:20Tuesday, they said any threat to take punitive measures against
0:20:20 > 0:20:24Russia will meet with a response. The British side should be aware of
0:20:24 > 0:20:29that. With a handy diagram to explain their point. This Post asked
0:20:29 > 0:20:39a week after the poisoning toll on -- poisoning toll and. Last month,
0:20:39 > 0:20:45when the UK was battling the beast from the east, their poll asked:
0:20:49 > 0:20:55The most popular answer was tricked more vodka. Joining us now is Molly
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Goodfellow and Russian comedian, Constantine. Welcome to both of you.
0:20:58 > 0:21:02Constantine, to a British audience these tweets are pretty bizarre,
0:21:02 > 0:21:06even offensive. Given the current context. Are we missing digit joke?
0:21:06 > 0:21:12I don't think so, these tweets are cheesy and slightly unoriginal. But
0:21:12 > 0:21:17I think that is where Russia finds itself now. It is trying to fight a
0:21:17 > 0:21:20war of words and one of the interesting things in terms of
0:21:20 > 0:21:23difference, we don't have the concept of banter in Russia. The
0:21:23 > 0:21:27idea that you it's a horrible things to your friends as a sign of
0:21:27 > 0:21:31affection. When he sees attempts, these are an attempt to undermine
0:21:31 > 0:21:35the West's message that Russia is doing through humour. How effective
0:21:35 > 0:21:39that is I don't think we really know that is what I think is happening.
0:21:39 > 0:21:44You think it represents a Russian sense of humour, even if it is not
0:21:44 > 0:21:48good and clumsily done?These are the kinds of church you write when
0:21:48 > 0:21:53you haven't in jokes before.He says crushingly. Are they funny at all?I
0:21:53 > 0:21:57think some people are finding humour in them. If you look at the joke
0:21:57 > 0:22:00tweets they do versus the quite straight ambassadorial tweets they
0:22:00 > 0:22:06do, the jokes would have a far more sense of engagement and favourites,
0:22:06 > 0:22:10there are people who are finding it funny and that disconnect between
0:22:10 > 0:22:17this is a very serious political unit versus being quite trolled and
0:22:17 > 0:22:24tweeting in the way that tweeters tweet. Looking at a political
0:22:24 > 0:22:28account, is quite rare.Using the medium and the current context is
0:22:28 > 0:22:31serious. But actually when you look at what has been written, they are
0:22:31 > 0:22:41not bad in an attempt to break the ice. I am sorry, I know. That cannot
0:22:41 > 0:22:48the top of my head.I think it is such a serious situation. You have
0:22:48 > 0:22:52got three people in hospital having been poisoned with a nerve agent, it
0:22:52 > 0:22:58is not a time for silly jokes on Twitter. Again, there has also been
0:22:58 > 0:23:03Russian bots interfering in Western democracy around the world. I think
0:23:03 > 0:23:07it is just not a laughing matter actually.Tasteless and
0:23:07 > 0:23:11inappropriate?No, it is a deflection tactic. I think they are
0:23:11 > 0:23:15quite funny in some ways but we all pay attention to them, discussing
0:23:15 > 0:23:18them here now, we would be discussing the Russian Embassy if
0:23:18 > 0:23:24they haven't done that. It was like a press office, they did the same,
0:23:24 > 0:23:27the Liberal Democrat press office. What you think the Russian reaction
0:23:27 > 0:23:31would be to these kind of tweets from an official British account?I
0:23:31 > 0:23:35wouldn't know but I think in terms of the Russian reaction to these
0:23:35 > 0:23:38tweets, most Russian people would be quite enjoying this trolling, I
0:23:38 > 0:23:44think. In terms of your point about seriousness, Russian people tend to
0:23:44 > 0:23:47be less squeamish and politically correct on these issues. When most
0:23:47 > 0:23:52Russian people see these tweets they will be kind of enjoying it.You
0:23:52 > 0:23:57should offer them your services!I think it works in their favour, I
0:23:57 > 0:24:01should say. It is that dichotomy between the strict parents telling
0:24:01 > 0:24:06Russia to stop it and the child that is pointing their tongue out and
0:24:06 > 0:24:12blowing raspberries.Gavin Williams, the Defence Secretary.You do think
0:24:12 > 0:24:17we have British equivalents clearly on this site. Playing of course, to
0:24:17 > 0:24:21cultural norms in Russia, like the weather and a vodka. In a way, is
0:24:21 > 0:24:26that not an attempt to reach out somehow?Is a staple of my comedy,
0:24:26 > 0:24:31absolutely. I think you do have to play with this but it is a question
0:24:31 > 0:24:35of what you're trying to achieve and I think in this case in terms of
0:24:35 > 0:24:39Russian humour, we are not quite as self-deprecating as British people
0:24:39 > 0:24:43asked when we make fun of someone else it is to undermine and question
0:24:43 > 0:24:47what they are saying, to make a point. I think this is a
0:24:47 > 0:24:51continuation of politics.It is a case of 1-upmanship than the. A
0:24:51 > 0:24:54dither completely Russian and English comedy, there is not a
0:24:54 > 0:25:00meeting of the minds?No, I don't think there is.You are a meeting of
0:25:00 > 0:25:04the minds! Isn't this what Twitter is for? To do this sort of thing?
0:25:04 > 0:25:09Absolutely. I think it is. Politically the Russian Embassy is
0:25:09 > 0:25:12probably the account that is doing the best in terms of understanding
0:25:12 > 0:25:19the Twitter trolling- mind.When the Minister of defence Twitter account
0:25:19 > 0:25:24start doing this then it becomes a war of words.On that, that is it
0:25:24 > 0:25:27now. Thank you for joining us and thank