0:00:02 > 0:00:05Time now for Politics Europe.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38Hello and welcome to Politics Europe, your regular guide
0:00:38 > 0:00:48to the top stories in Brussels and Strasbourg.
0:00:48 > 0:00:51On today's programme: EU leaders meet in Slovakia to discuss Brexit
0:00:51 > 0:00:52and other pressing problems.
0:00:52 > 0:00:56Theresa May isn't there, so what deal will the remaining
0:00:56 > 0:00:57members offer Britain
0:00:57 > 0:01:00outside of the EU?
0:01:00 > 0:01:04Britain may not be part of it, but will the EU soon
0:01:04 > 0:01:08have its own armed forces, and do they threaten Nato?
0:01:08 > 0:01:11EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker orders free Wi-Fi for every
0:01:11 > 0:01:16town and city by 2020.
0:01:16 > 0:01:21Bold thinking, or a futile, grandiose gesture?
0:01:21 > 0:01:27So all that to come and more in the next half-hour.
0:01:27 > 0:01:30First, though, this week members of the European Parliament have been
0:01:30 > 0:01:32meeting in Strasbourg for their regular plenary session.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36So what have they been getting up to, and what else has been happening
0:01:36 > 0:01:38over in Brussels?
0:01:38 > 0:01:46Here is our guide to the latest from Europe in just 60 seconds.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49We learned that the EU's auditors opposed Romania and Bulgaria joining
0:01:49 > 0:01:54the EU in 2006, over concerns they couldn't spend funds properly.
0:01:54 > 0:01:59The two countries joined anyway in 2007.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02It is Budapest versus the Grand Duchy, as the foreign
0:02:02 > 0:02:05minister of Luxembourg suggested Hungary should be suspended,
0:02:05 > 0:02:08maybe even thrown out of, the Union, for failing to respect
0:02:08 > 0:02:12the EU's values.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker used his State
0:02:15 > 0:02:19of the Union address to warn that Brexit presented an existential
0:02:19 > 0:02:21crisis to the EU.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24But he had big ideas, too, like free Wi-Fi for every city
0:02:24 > 0:02:28and village by 2020.
0:02:28 > 0:02:29And goodbye Frontex, hello European Border
0:02:29 > 0:02:35and Coastguard agency.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38Member states approved the creation of a new 1,500-strong force,
0:02:38 > 0:02:46which will take to the seas in October.
0:02:46 > 0:02:50And with us for the next 30 minutes, I'm joined by Labour MEP Sion Simon
0:02:50 > 0:02:52and the Conservative MEP Jacqueline Foster.
0:02:53 > 0:02:54Welcome to you both.
0:02:54 > 0:02:57Let's take a look at one of the stories in more detail,
0:02:57 > 0:03:01this plan floated by Mr Juncker for free Wi-Fi.
0:03:01 > 0:03:06I think even 5G, he was talking about, in every town,
0:03:06 > 0:03:10city and even village of the European Union by 2020.
0:03:10 > 0:03:14Is it too cynical just to look at that as a gimmick?
0:03:14 > 0:03:17Not at all, because I think it was gimmick.
0:03:17 > 0:03:23There we have somebody who's in charge of the Commission,
0:03:23 > 0:03:26standing up doing a State of the Union address.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29We have challenges on immigration.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32We have member states with problems, banking problems in Italy,
0:03:32 > 0:03:35unemployment, a key player has left the European Union,
0:03:35 > 0:03:39ie we are leaving, the UK.
0:03:39 > 0:03:41And then, partway through the speech, he starts
0:03:41 > 0:03:45talking about Wi-Fi.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48And ultimately it's all about more Europe, and I just found
0:03:48 > 0:03:48it absolutely astonishing.
0:03:48 > 0:03:53So it's not at all cynical.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56What powers does the European Commission have to deliver free
0:03:56 > 0:03:59Wi-Fi to every village in Europe?
0:03:59 > 0:04:00They don't have the power.
0:04:00 > 0:04:05Very few, if any, I don't think.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08It would be nice if we could have it.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11It'd be nice.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14I don't think we're going to get free Wi-Fi in every public park
0:04:14 > 0:04:17in 28 countries for 120 million euros.
0:04:17 > 0:04:18Or 27 countries, now.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21Or even five countries, to be honest, for that
0:04:21 > 0:04:23kind of money.
0:04:23 > 0:04:28So yeah, clearly it was a bit of a gimmick.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31Although to be fair, the speech, it's kind of the equivalent
0:04:31 > 0:04:32of a party conference speech.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34So not serious?
0:04:34 > 0:04:42Well, it's a bit of a laundry list.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44It's got to have something for everybody in it.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48He did talk about serious themes, and he also threw in a gimmick.
0:04:48 > 0:04:50But I've got to say, given...
0:04:50 > 0:04:52Coming hard on the heels of the actually more serious
0:04:52 > 0:04:55and equally unedifying climbdown on roaming charges last week,
0:04:55 > 0:04:57it seemed like an odd place for them to go.
0:04:58 > 0:04:58Well, that seemed...
0:04:58 > 0:05:03Because one of the things that we heard in the referendum,
0:05:03 > 0:05:07one of the benefits of the EU would be the roaming charges,
0:05:07 > 0:05:09which used to be huge.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12But I saw earlier this week that apparently Mr Juncker had...
0:05:12 > 0:05:19Because he hadn't been properly consulted or the papers hadn't come
0:05:19 > 0:05:22to him properly, that these plans to improve the roaming charges
0:05:22 > 0:05:23had been sidelined.
0:05:23 > 0:05:24Is that right?
0:05:24 > 0:05:24Well, possibly.
0:05:24 > 0:05:27I rest my case.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29They've talked about roaming.
0:05:29 > 0:05:36I've been there for an awfully long time, really, since '99.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39And fine, so a committee looked at roaming charges and how
0:05:39 > 0:05:39expensive they were.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43Then there was the consideration if, OK, it was OK for us
0:05:43 > 0:05:45when we were travelling, or you are travelling,
0:05:45 > 0:05:47that our mobiles were a bit cheaper.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51But were the citizens of the United Kingdom going to be
0:05:51 > 0:05:52paying for that?
0:05:52 > 0:05:54Because their costs might go up.
0:05:54 > 0:05:58So really, if I may just bring this back, whether it was roaming charges
0:05:58 > 0:06:02or Wi-Fi, I mean, this was a State of the Union speech,
0:06:02 > 0:06:04with huge issues, huge pressures, as you said.
0:06:04 > 0:06:08Security, defence, immigration, and he is talking about this.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11It was absolutely ludicrous.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14And you know, if we had the President of the United States
0:06:14 > 0:06:17doing the State of the Union, or a British Prime Minister
0:06:17 > 0:06:20during the State of the United Kingdom, or another
0:06:20 > 0:06:24leader in another country, I mean, I doubt whether any of them would be
0:06:24 > 0:06:25talking about Wi-Fi.
0:06:25 > 0:06:27I think I rest my case on that one.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30To be fair, though, I remember one of...
0:06:30 > 0:06:34Or probably more than one of Tony Blair's early conference
0:06:34 > 0:06:39speeches, when he couldn't do any wrong and he was the most popular
0:06:39 > 0:06:43man in the country, and every speech he gave was in epoch-making triumph,
0:06:43 > 0:06:46and they were always littered with a computer for every school,
0:06:46 > 0:06:49and an information superhighway, broadband infrastructure.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51But that was a party conference.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53It was completely different, if I may say so.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55I think they're quite similar.
0:06:55 > 0:06:56We shall see.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59We shall see.
0:06:59 > 0:07:04I guess neither of you are going to take on a bet of 100 quid that
0:07:04 > 0:07:06every village will have Wi-Fi by 2020.
0:07:06 > 0:07:08I don't think you'd get very good odds.
0:07:08 > 0:07:09We'll move on.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12So the leaders are meeting in the Slovakian capital of Bratislava.
0:07:12 > 0:07:17All leaders, that is, except Theresa May.
0:07:17 > 0:07:21It is the first summit to exclude the UK since our referendum on 23
0:07:21 > 0:07:24June.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27And that is because this summit will be about how the remaining 27
0:07:27 > 0:07:30will begin to consider what the Union should look
0:07:30 > 0:07:32like after the United Kingdom leaves.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35Clearly there is much to get through before that happens,
0:07:35 > 0:07:37so what do know about the EU's negotiating position,
0:07:37 > 0:07:41such as it is, at the moment?
0:07:41 > 0:07:43The European Commission has appointed former French commissioner
0:07:43 > 0:07:46Michel Barnier as its chief negotiator.
0:07:46 > 0:07:51The European Parliament has its own negotiator,
0:07:51 > 0:07:53too, the former Belgian prime minister, well-known EU federalist
0:07:53 > 0:07:55Guy Verhofstadt.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59The EU Commission President, Jean-Claude Juncker,
0:07:59 > 0:08:03told MEPs on Wednesday that the UK cannot be part of the single market
0:08:03 > 0:08:05without free movement of people.
0:08:05 > 0:08:09He also said that he wanted Brexit talks to start as soon as possible.
0:08:09 > 0:08:13But former EU Council president Herman Van Rompuy told the BBC that
0:08:13 > 0:08:15substantive negotiations are unlikely to start
0:08:15 > 0:08:18until after the German elections, and they are not until September
0:08:18 > 0:08:23next year, a year away.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Let's talk to our Europe correspondent Damian Grammaticas.
0:08:26 > 0:08:32He is at this meeting in Bratislava.
0:08:32 > 0:08:37Damian, the purpose of this meeting originally was to begin to sketch
0:08:37 > 0:08:41out what the EU 27's negotiating position would be.
0:08:41 > 0:08:46But I get the impression there are so many other problems
0:08:46 > 0:08:50crowding in on the EU at the moment that that is not the only subject
0:08:50 > 0:08:51being discussed there.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53No, you're right, Andrew.
0:08:53 > 0:09:02It's not actually, really, the subject being discussed at all.
0:09:02 > 0:09:05They are going to discuss sort of of the political fallout,
0:09:05 > 0:09:06if you like, from the Brexit vote.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09But what they'd always said, actually, was that this summit
0:09:09 > 0:09:12was going to be about - not about Brexit itself,
0:09:12 > 0:09:15but about charting a way forward for the EU after Brexit.
0:09:15 > 0:09:20So this is very clearly meant to - being meant as a signal.
0:09:20 > 0:09:22That 27 nations, without the UK here, without the British Prime
0:09:22 > 0:09:27Minister, are meeting around the table, setting the agenda
0:09:28 > 0:09:30for the future.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33And that is going to be sort of broad brush strokes.
0:09:33 > 0:09:35But very clearly what they want to do, they said,
0:09:35 > 0:09:38is to try to address the sort of underlying issues that
0:09:38 > 0:09:40led to Brexit.
0:09:40 > 0:09:44So on the sort of broadest possible level, what they mean
0:09:44 > 0:09:48by that is that they see a threat from this rising sort of tide
0:09:48 > 0:09:50of Euroscepticism, and they want to reinvigorate the EU,
0:09:50 > 0:09:53try to reconnect with European people.
0:09:53 > 0:09:57But around that table now, of 27, with Britain not being there,
0:09:57 > 0:10:00it would be fair to say that there are deep divisions
0:10:00 > 0:10:01among that 27.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04There is a Visegrad group of the East Europeans,
0:10:04 > 0:10:08which takes a very different view from what you might call
0:10:08 > 0:10:11the Club Med group, which in turn is very different from the Nordic
0:10:11 > 0:10:13and northern group, which sometimes can include France,
0:10:13 > 0:10:19or France may sometimes be in the Club Med group.
0:10:19 > 0:10:23Even to such a stage that we had, this week, the Luxembourg foreign
0:10:23 > 0:10:27minister call for the expulsion of Hungary.
0:10:27 > 0:10:30So even without us they're not that united, are they?
0:10:30 > 0:10:34No, and the leaders themselves know this.
0:10:34 > 0:10:40They themselves have all been walking into this castle this
0:10:40 > 0:10:43morning saying, what they have to do is show a message of unity,
0:10:43 > 0:10:46to try to find the areas they agree on.
0:10:46 > 0:10:47And interesting you mentioned Luxembourg.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50The Luxembourg Prime Minister, walking in today, he said,
0:10:50 > 0:10:53we need to remember that we agree on 90% of things.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55There's 10% of things that we don't agree on.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59So he was almost dismissing the idea that there is this sort of crisis
0:10:59 > 0:11:00in the EU.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03He was saying, keep an eye on the bigger picture,
0:11:03 > 0:11:07on the fact that, in many, many areas, the EU delivers for people.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09But, in the areas that sort of matter in some ways
0:11:09 > 0:11:13at the minute, where the crises are focused, migration and border
0:11:13 > 0:11:16security, economic issues, growth and jobs, there are very
0:11:16 > 0:11:20different views, as you say, between the more sort
0:11:20 > 0:11:25of austerity-minded North and the Southern European countries.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28And also between the East, who want more controls on migration,
0:11:28 > 0:11:37less - not willing to take refuge in quotas, and on the bigger
0:11:37 > 0:11:39countries in the West, that want them.
0:11:39 > 0:11:39All sorts of divisions.
0:11:39 > 0:11:41Damian Grammaticas, in Bratislava.
0:11:41 > 0:11:43I must say, the castle looks brilliant, it looks
0:11:43 > 0:11:47wonderful behind you.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51We will let you get on and find out what is happening
0:11:51 > 0:11:52in the rooms there.
0:11:52 > 0:11:54We are joined now by the Ukip MEP William Dartmouth,
0:11:55 > 0:11:56who is part of our discussion.
0:11:56 > 0:11:57There he is, down in...
0:11:57 > 0:11:58Good day, good day.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01It looks like a lovely day down in Bournemouth,
0:12:01 > 0:12:02I can see you there.
0:12:02 > 0:12:03So stick with us.
0:12:03 > 0:12:04Let me...
0:12:04 > 0:12:07It's a beautiful day, you ought to be here.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10They don't let me out very often these days,
0:12:10 > 0:12:10I'm afraid.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12Let me ask you this.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15Is it not, Sion Simon, going to take a long time?
0:12:15 > 0:12:17The British Government is just at the foothills
0:12:17 > 0:12:19of what its negotiating position is going to be.
0:12:19 > 0:12:21We still have no idea.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23And the Europeans may actually be even further behind.
0:12:23 > 0:12:28They have no idea what their negotiating position will be.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31I've never come across anything in my...
0:12:31 > 0:12:35I'm 47, I've never seen anything in which everybody has got so little
0:12:35 > 0:12:41idea, still, now, what is it, going on three months
0:12:41 > 0:12:43since the referendum?
0:12:43 > 0:12:46I don't think the British Government has got the slightest idea
0:12:46 > 0:12:49what it's doing.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53Neither the Prime Minister nor any of the Secretaries of State has said
0:12:53 > 0:12:55anything coherent about Brexit at all.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58And I don't think it's any different at all in the Commission
0:12:58 > 0:12:59or the other member states.
0:12:59 > 0:13:02Everybody I talk to, it's complete chaos and blankness and confusion.
0:13:02 > 0:13:06It's really honestly made me wonder what it used to be like in the War.
0:13:06 > 0:13:10And I've concluded that there was a much greater sense of purpose,
0:13:10 > 0:13:11and understanding what we were doing, actually,
0:13:11 > 0:13:13in wartime than this Brexit.
0:13:13 > 0:13:15William Dartmouth, are you concerned about the lack of clarity?
0:13:15 > 0:13:17And how long...
0:13:17 > 0:13:20It is like a phoney war situation at the moment, isn't it?
0:13:20 > 0:13:22How long can this continue?
0:13:22 > 0:13:26Well, the principal reason that there is a lack of clarity
0:13:26 > 0:13:34is because the Cameron-Osborne government, totally irresponsibly
0:13:34 > 0:13:35made no preparations at all.
0:13:35 > 0:13:40I have written extensively about this, and hopefully one day
0:13:40 > 0:13:44I get a bit of coverage on the BBC for what I'd actually have written.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48But I mean, what is necessary is that there should be a supremacy
0:13:48 > 0:13:50of English law, controlling our borders, and a return of fishing,
0:13:50 > 0:13:53and no contributions to the European Union budget,
0:13:53 > 0:13:54as an absolute minimum.
0:13:54 > 0:13:56Otherwise this isn't really a proper Brexit at all,
0:13:56 > 0:14:00which is what people voted for.
0:14:00 > 0:14:06Is that English law is going to be supreme in Scotland as well?
0:14:06 > 0:14:10I, well, I think that we can have an interesting discussion
0:14:10 > 0:14:12with the difference between Scots and English
0:14:12 > 0:14:13law.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16I think the Scots would want their law to prevail over
0:14:16 > 0:14:16European law.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20You may have to go back and rewrite that.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23You may have to go back and rewrite that bit of your paper before
0:14:23 > 0:14:26we talk about it further to get it right.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29At the moment, we seem to be in a situation
0:14:29 > 0:14:33where particularly in the European side, there's, the kind of sticking
0:14:33 > 0:14:40out, not a bargaining position, but a bargaining attitude.
0:14:40 > 0:14:45So a well known anti-Brit is appointed, Mr Verhofstadt,
0:14:45 > 0:14:51who loved to tangle with the Brits as well, and Mr Juncker too.
0:14:51 > 0:14:55All of this is pretty meaningless.
0:14:55 > 0:15:01It's the Council of ministers that is tasked with being in charge
0:15:01 > 0:15:03of the negotiations and that means Mr Tusk
0:15:03 > 0:15:04and Angela Merkel.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08I think is a fair point to make, Andrew.
0:15:08 > 0:15:11And what is particularly ridiculous about all of this is,
0:15:11 > 0:15:16you know, the voters have spoken.
0:15:16 > 0:15:19And whether other members, other countries like it or not,
0:15:19 > 0:15:23that's the decision that was taken UK.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26I do not believe it's in the interests of the other member
0:15:26 > 0:15:29states to end up having a virtual civil war
0:15:29 > 0:15:31with the UK, determining what the outcomes should be
0:15:31 > 0:15:33in the negotiations.
0:15:33 > 0:15:38I do feel, slightly reassured in terms with Donald Tusk,
0:15:38 > 0:15:41in the meeting today, because I think, genuinely,
0:15:41 > 0:15:48the other member states, albeit with different
0:15:48 > 0:15:50pressures, want to try to get decent conclusions.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52When you look at the message, and if we put
0:15:52 > 0:15:55Jean-Claude Juncker to one side, and as you said, Michel Barnier
0:15:55 > 0:15:58to be the negotiator from the commission's
0:15:58 > 0:16:04side, and Verhofstadt, who actively can't stand us,
0:16:04 > 0:16:08and even less since our political group, the British
0:16:08 > 0:16:14Conservatives, wiped them out in the last European election.
0:16:14 > 0:16:16It's like putting an arsonist in charge
0:16:16 > 0:16:19of a firework factory.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22If we want to be grown-up on this, we need a good
0:16:22 > 0:16:29sensible constructive debate from all parties.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32Let me go back to William Dartmouth in Bournemouth.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35Is there not a danger from your point
0:16:35 > 0:16:39of view, there's a vacuum on the British side,
0:16:39 > 0:16:41a vacuum on the European side as well.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45Let's stick to the British side.
0:16:45 > 0:16:49The longer you allow a vacuum to persist,
0:16:49 > 0:16:51isn't there a danger that forces start to
0:16:51 > 0:16:55fill it, over which you have no control, and the government have no
0:16:55 > 0:17:05control, and the people begin to get disillusioned and wonder
0:17:05 > 0:17:08control, and the people begin to get disillusioned and wonder if it's
0:17:08 > 0:17:09going to happen.
0:17:09 > 0:17:11How long can we go on like this?
0:17:11 > 0:17:12That's actually a very perceptive question.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16First of all, the appointment of Barnier and Verhofstadt
0:17:16 > 0:17:19is an attempt by the commission of the European Parliament to fill
0:17:19 > 0:17:21that vacuum and it's not very helpful at all.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23It's just posturing for position.
0:17:23 > 0:17:28That doesn't belong in a serious way.
0:17:28 > 0:17:33Because no preparations were made, it's in one
0:17:33 > 0:17:37sense reasonable that a little bit of a time is taken.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39It really shouldn't be for very much longer.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42I must make the point we should commit to the UK
0:17:42 > 0:17:45leaving the single market.
0:17:45 > 0:17:50So long as we stay in the single market, the 85% or more
0:17:50 > 0:17:56of the British economy that doesn't export to the EU
0:17:56 > 0:18:01countries is nonetheless bound by the whole panoply of EU
0:18:01 > 0:18:03regulation we have to concede.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06We'll leave it there.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09And I think it's important that is clearly
0:18:09 > 0:18:09understood.
0:18:09 > 0:18:12I understand and you made it clear.
0:18:12 > 0:18:16That will be part of the debate if and went the government tells us
0:18:16 > 0:18:18roughly what their bargaining position is going
0:18:18 > 0:18:18to be.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20William Dartmouth in Bournemouth, thank you for joining
0:18:20 > 0:18:29us.
0:18:29 > 0:18:37It's got his own court, the civil service in Parliament.
0:18:37 > 0:18:39Does the EU need its own armed forces.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41There is a renewed push for integration
0:18:41 > 0:18:42within the remaining members.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44Including a push for EU armed forces.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47The prospect of an EU army was a hot topic during the referendum
0:18:47 > 0:18:48campaign.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50You're being asked to make a decision that is irreversible,
0:18:50 > 0:18:55we are being sold on the lie.
0:18:55 > 0:18:57The lies about the European army, because we
0:18:57 > 0:19:00got a veto on that.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03They are not going to change course on anything.
0:19:03 > 0:19:08They are still progressing with the European army plans.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12The UK always stood in the way of greater military
0:19:12 > 0:19:17co-operation within the EU, but June's referendum result removed
0:19:17 > 0:19:21a major obstacle, paving the way for the members keen on more
0:19:21 > 0:19:27integration to pursue their ambitions.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30TRANSLATION: We should work towards a common military force,
0:19:30 > 0:19:36and this should be in complement with NATO.
0:19:36 > 0:19:40Forces from the member states are already working together,
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Operation Sophia tackling people smuggling in the Mediterranean
0:19:42 > 0:19:46is one example.
0:19:46 > 0:19:48It would be more effective against threats both
0:19:48 > 0:19:51within and beyond EU borders.
0:19:51 > 0:19:56I think the first challenge we face is terrorism.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59It's also crisis and very deep crisis in the south,
0:19:59 > 0:20:03the Middle East, near east, northern Africa, central Africa,
0:20:03 > 0:20:08these are challenges that we can tackle as European,
0:20:08 > 0:20:12without requesting help from others.
0:20:12 > 0:20:13And could closer co-ordination lead to
0:20:13 > 0:20:16an EU army?
0:20:16 > 0:20:19That's my dream.
0:20:19 > 0:20:20I think that national armies aren't from
0:20:20 > 0:20:22this time anymore.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26Germany won't invade Belgium.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29In the long-term, it should be a European defence,
0:20:29 > 0:20:31a European army, with one headquarters, one military command,
0:20:31 > 0:20:35with one political control.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38Now, Britain with its veto is out of way.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42Other countries opposed, including historically neutral
0:20:42 > 0:20:48Sweden and Ireland, are concerned.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50They co-operate.
0:20:50 > 0:20:52We are not all the same.
0:20:52 > 0:20:54We are not homogenous.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56We have different histories.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58Having the single foreign policy, it doesn't make
0:20:58 > 0:21:02sense.
0:21:02 > 0:21:04It puts citizens at risk, we believe.
0:21:04 > 0:21:08Ireland's history is as a neutral country.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11Friday's summit in Bratislava is likely to address
0:21:11 > 0:21:13faster deployment of services overseas, coordinating strategic
0:21:13 > 0:21:16assets such as planes and helicopters and sharing data
0:21:16 > 0:21:23from satellite reconnaissance.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26But getting co-operation is difficult.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29Excuse me, you're on BBC News.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31Following the Brexit vote, what are your plans
0:21:31 > 0:21:33for an EU army?
0:21:33 > 0:21:37We are working on the European defence together.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39And the idea of fighting under the EU
0:21:39 > 0:21:44flag, rather than separate national banners, is controversial.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47Our armies are always co-operating in the fields,
0:21:47 > 0:21:51in the battlefields.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53And you know, we're talking about dying for Europe,
0:21:53 > 0:21:56fighting for Europe, but what are we fighting
0:21:56 > 0:21:59for when we were fighting together in Afghanistan?
0:21:59 > 0:22:03It was under the NATO flag.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06The people in the military, they know what they were fighting
0:22:06 > 0:22:08for.
0:22:08 > 0:22:12Military co-operation could just be the start.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Now the UK, with its many fears and objections,
0:22:15 > 0:22:22is leaving, the EU may have closer union in other areas too.
0:22:22 > 0:22:30Emily reporting there.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33Bringing you the news that Germany is not going to invade Belgium.
0:22:33 > 0:22:35So that means they'll be sleeping soundly
0:22:35 > 0:22:37in Brussels tonight after that scoop.
0:22:37 > 0:22:41When interviewers like myself raise the prospect of a European army,
0:22:41 > 0:22:44more integration with Remainers like yourselves, we were assured
0:22:44 > 0:22:51it's a pipe dream, Brexit propaganda, never going
0:22:51 > 0:22:54it's a pipe dream, Brexit propaganda, never going to happen.
0:22:54 > 0:22:55There's moves towards it.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57I never thought it wouldn't, not necessarily happen.
0:22:57 > 0:22:59And I think that have moved very quickly.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01It's again, it sounds like another gimmick.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05It's a headline grabber.
0:23:05 > 0:23:10And the only thing it would do is undermine NATO.
0:23:10 > 0:23:14I think the European Union had defence on the cheap for decades.
0:23:14 > 0:23:15That's from the Americans.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17Absolutely.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19You know, everything the Americans do is wrong,
0:23:19 > 0:23:22but by the same token, they were quite happy
0:23:22 > 0:23:25for the Americans to assist and there are many member states
0:23:25 > 0:23:29who have contributed financially, very,
0:23:29 > 0:23:34to any budget and so the fact they want their own military hours,
0:23:34 > 0:23:36which would undermine, I think, NATO, when
0:23:36 > 0:23:38we already have great co-operation, I think,
0:23:38 > 0:23:40again, is just another story.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42The Americans are putting Europe under great pressure
0:23:42 > 0:23:48to contribute more.
0:23:48 > 0:23:50America contributes 70% of NATO's capability.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52It's higher than it was during the Cold
0:23:52 > 0:23:54War.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57I don't understand how Europe can do that and afford to build
0:23:57 > 0:24:00a separate command structure.
0:24:00 > 0:24:04I don't understand either.
0:24:04 > 0:24:07I think the discussion that the Americans want
0:24:07 > 0:24:10is a reasonable one and it should be about European countries,
0:24:10 > 0:24:14member states of the EU and non-member
0:24:14 > 0:24:18states of the EU paying a more equal share into NATO and making a fairer
0:24:18 > 0:24:18contribution to NATO.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21That is less likely, post-Brexit.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24We've been a big break on this thing.
0:24:24 > 0:24:26Take us out and it's more likely this will
0:24:26 > 0:24:28happen.
0:24:28 > 0:24:33It wouldn't be a European force, it would be a French force.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37The only real military that matters in Europe are the French.
0:24:37 > 0:24:42The German forces, half of them don't work.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45The French, other than ourselves, the French are the only one country
0:24:45 > 0:24:47with formidable defence capability.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49Absolutely.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52And France had nothing to do with NATO for years.
0:24:52 > 0:24:56They have only recently come back in.
0:24:56 > 0:25:00I think the French actually really want, I think they are quite nervous
0:25:00 > 0:25:01about all of this.
0:25:01 > 0:25:02The French?
0:25:02 > 0:25:03Absolutely, yes.
0:25:03 > 0:25:13They will be dumped with a lot of this.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16Unless this exit strategy is done in a grown-up way,
0:25:16 > 0:25:17Britain will be
0:25:17 > 0:25:18playing a key part.
0:25:18 > 0:25:20Or they build a big headquarters and get some
0:25:20 > 0:25:26uniforms but don't have much of a European army.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29At least it's now on the agenda and interesting to cover.
0:25:29 > 0:25:30That's all for now.