:00:21. > :00:24.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up on the
:00:24. > :00:27.programme: A major finance group says green energy companies should
:00:27. > :00:31.be cautious about investing due to uncertainty over the independence
:00:31. > :00:35.referendum. It's round two of the minimum price
:00:35. > :00:41.for alcohol debate. We will see if the arguments have moved on. And
:00:41. > :00:49.what will a Greek referendum on the euro bail-out mean for our economy?
:00:49. > :00:53.Here at Westminster that issue is very much on the minds of MPs as
:00:53. > :00:55.well. And how to pay for public sector pensions.
:00:55. > :00:58.First, a major finance group has urged extreme caution over
:00:59. > :01:02.investing in Scotland's renewable energy sector, partly because of
:01:02. > :01:06.the independence referendum. Citigroup said the process of
:01:06. > :01:09.constitutional change could create huge uncertainty. Here's our
:01:09. > :01:13.business correspondent David Henderson.
:01:13. > :01:17.He wants Scotland to be the Saudi Arabia of renewables, and this week
:01:17. > :01:24.he is taking that message to the Middle East. But will Alex
:01:24. > :01:29.Salmond's drive for independence scare off investors? The The SNP
:01:29. > :01:34.see wind, wave and tidal power as a vast untapped resource to be used
:01:34. > :01:39.to power Scotland and be exported to other parts of Europe. But that
:01:39. > :01:43.will require a huge amount of investment. Today a major finance
:01:43. > :01:49.group warned of the risks of investing in Scotland as it debates
:01:49. > :01:52.independence. The financial giant Citigroup said the independence
:01:52. > :01:56.referendum will create huge uncertainty and that renewable
:01:57. > :02:02.investors risk seeing their assets stranded in a newly independent
:02:02. > :02:06.Scotland. It's been seized upon by the SNP's opponents. When it comes
:02:06. > :02:09.to vital industries like green technology the combination of a
:02:09. > :02:12.green investment bank sponsored by the United Kingdom Government and
:02:12. > :02:15.the many natural advantages there are in Scotland, can actually make
:02:15. > :02:21.this a great industry for people in Scotland, but will only do that if
:02:21. > :02:24.we keep our country together. recent times we have seen �750
:02:24. > :02:28.million invested in renewable energy in Scotland and therefore,
:02:28. > :02:33.if investors were scared away that wouldn't have happened and they've
:02:33. > :02:37.all known of our plans for a referendum. The independence debate
:02:37. > :02:42.is creating tension between business and the SNP Government,
:02:42. > :02:45.but now the debate is entering stormy waters.
:02:45. > :02:49.I am joined by our political editor Brian Taylor to discuss this
:02:49. > :02:53.further. Good afternoon, Brian, thank you for joining me. How much
:02:53. > :02:56.weight does this analyst from Citigroup carry, do you think?
:02:56. > :03:00.not the weight of the individual analyst nor of the group, although
:03:00. > :03:04.they're a large one, it's the weight of the arguments perhaps
:03:04. > :03:10.relevant in this regard. Broadly, this Citigroup report is making two
:03:10. > :03:15.points. Firstly, that the referendum itself, the process per
:03:15. > :03:18.se carries with it uncertainty and that in their world equates with
:03:19. > :03:23.risk. They argue that post- independence should that come about
:03:23. > :03:26.there would not be sufficient consumer base in Scotland to
:03:26. > :03:30.support the subsidies they believe will continue to be required for
:03:30. > :03:34.renewables, against that Scottish Ministers here at Holyrood put two
:03:34. > :03:37.points. They say that there are companies flocking to Scotland
:03:37. > :03:41.right now to invest in renewables at a time when they know exactly
:03:41. > :03:45.that there's going to be a referendum. Secondly, they believe
:03:45. > :03:49.that in the new energy market across Europe, not just across the
:03:49. > :03:53.UK, but Europe, there will be a continuing requirement, a
:03:53. > :03:56.continuing demand, if you like, for renewables, and that of itself will
:03:56. > :04:01.generate funds that will be required to continue that energy
:04:01. > :04:05.development. This line of uncertainty is an emerging theme
:04:05. > :04:08.from big business, the CBI mentioned it in September, as well.
:04:08. > :04:12.How damaging is it do you think for the Scottish Government hearing
:04:12. > :04:17.about these claims? It's difficult, because it obliges them again to
:04:17. > :04:19.defend the timing of the referendum, they're putting back for three or
:04:19. > :04:23.four years, because they said they promised to do in the second half
:04:24. > :04:28.of the parliament, also because in strategic terms they believe now
:04:28. > :04:31.with economic uncertainty would not be a reasonable time for them to go
:04:31. > :04:34.ahead with suggesting independence to the people of Scotland. So it
:04:34. > :04:38.poses a challenge to Ministers, but as you say they've heard it before,
:04:38. > :04:44.it's not one they haven't encountered previously. So, Alex
:04:44. > :04:47.Salmond this morning on the radio was very robust in criticising the
:04:47. > :04:50.approach taken by the report and also Ministers here at Holyrood are
:04:50. > :04:53.doing exactly that. A tricky this one for the opposition parties,
:04:53. > :04:57.particularly when it comes to renewables I suppose, they don't
:04:57. > :05:02.want to talk Scotland down? They don't. On the one hand we have a
:05:02. > :05:06.statement from Labour which they're pointing out the sal kwrepbt point
:05:06. > :05:09.in the report about the uncertainty of the timing of the referendum and
:05:09. > :05:14.uncertainty of the process itself. You also have the situation, they
:05:14. > :05:18.don't want to go too far, if they get overeager in pursuing the
:05:18. > :05:22.campaign against independence it might seem as if they're talking
:05:22. > :05:25.Scotland down to some extent with regard to the energy pros --
:05:25. > :05:29.prospects of the country. The temptation to seize upon this
:05:29. > :05:32.report for the opposition will be great but equally we have Scottish
:05:32. > :05:37.Ministers against that adamant on the points that companies are
:05:37. > :05:41.already coming here, already investing as Alex Alex Salmond put
:05:41. > :05:46.it, you don't need to listen to one broadcaster, you can read the book.
:05:46. > :05:48.Secondly, the belief in the longer- term Scotland's marine renewables
:05:48. > :05:51.particularly would be a huge contribution to European energy
:05:51. > :05:55.needs. It's a question of confidence, are you optimistic or
:05:55. > :05:58.pessimistic about Scotland's energy pros text -- prospects?
:05:58. > :06:02.Thank you very much. With me for the duration of this
:06:02. > :06:09.afternoon's programme is Lorraine Davidson of The Times. Good
:06:09. > :06:12.afternoon, thank you for joining me. It's a tricky one this for assix --
:06:12. > :06:19.Alex Salmond, we are hearing from business about this uncertainty.
:06:19. > :06:23.It's not helpful for the sector or the Government. Alex Salmond has
:06:23. > :06:29.had this pressure from op sis parties -- opposition parties. That
:06:29. > :06:34.line of attack hasn't really had great reasonance among the public.
:06:34. > :06:38.People are not marching to squares around Scotland saying give us our
:06:38. > :06:41.referendum now. Part of the reason it hasn't taken off is because you
:06:41. > :06:46.haven't had big business coming in and saying we are not sure about
:06:46. > :06:50.coming to Scotland, unless you guys know what you are doing. But it's
:06:50. > :06:55.the age-old problem, we know businesses don't like uncertainty.
:06:55. > :06:59.The SNP have been dealing with this issue nor for 20 years in the run-
:06:59. > :07:03.up to devolution, I think they did badly in the 99 election partly
:07:03. > :07:09.because of the idea of uncertainty and business being very hostile.
:07:09. > :07:13.Business in Scotland is not now hos till, they're -- hostile. At the
:07:13. > :07:17.end of the day they will be able to say businesses don't like
:07:17. > :07:21.uncertainty, we accept that, but at the end of the day they're
:07:21. > :07:25.pragmatic and if Scotland has this vibrant sector, this untapped great
:07:25. > :07:29.resource in tidal and wind energy, quarter of what's around in the
:07:29. > :07:35.whole of Europe, then businesses will come in. But you can probably
:07:35. > :07:38.expect to see Citigroup invited around faster than the Bishop of
:07:38. > :07:43.Paisley was. Now, we are in the middle of
:07:43. > :07:45.National Adoption Week, the charity Barnardo's Scotland is launching a
:07:45. > :07:48.national adoption service saying there is a need to increase and
:07:48. > :07:52.speed up adoptions where it's in the best interests of the child.
:07:52. > :07:55.Their call will be echoed in Holyrood this afternoon during a
:07:55. > :08:00.Scottish Government debate on the issue. Stephanie Stone from
:08:00. > :08:03.Barnardo's Scotland is here now. Thank you very much for joining me.
:08:03. > :08:07.What is it you want to hear from the Scottish Government this
:08:07. > :08:12.afternoon on their adoption strategy? We hope that they will be
:08:12. > :08:15.bringing in measures that will minimise the time scales it takes
:08:15. > :08:19.for young children in particular to be adopted. At the moment we have a
:08:19. > :08:23.number of young children, hundreds of young children in the care
:08:24. > :08:27.system, maybe of -- many of them under five who need to be adopted.
:08:27. > :08:31.Delaying these khaeurpb's lives is -- children's lives is of crucial
:08:31. > :08:36.importance. We know the emotional damage that delay means to these
:08:36. > :08:39.children and we need ways of hastening the processes. Adoption
:08:39. > :08:42.is not just about social work processes, it's about the court
:08:42. > :08:47.system and it's about the children's hearing system. So there
:08:47. > :08:52.needs to be something done that ensures that once a child enters
:08:52. > :08:55.the process that there are time- scales adhered to and the process
:08:55. > :09:00.happens quickly for them. It's a difficult balance to strike, you
:09:00. > :09:03.want to hasten it but you don't want to rush it because such a
:09:03. > :09:07.momentous decision for that child? Absolutely, it's a huge decision
:09:07. > :09:11.for the child and there has to be clear evidence that says that a
:09:11. > :09:14.parent is not going to be able to resume the care of that child
:09:15. > :09:20.safely before these decisions are made. But, unfortunately, for so
:09:20. > :09:25.many of our parents they have such entrenched problems that it will
:09:25. > :09:30.take them some years to get over these difficulties, particularly if
:09:30. > :09:34.they're around the areas of mental health, or substance misuse and for
:09:34. > :09:36.very young children their lives are on hold whilst parents address
:09:36. > :09:41.these problems. So it's a very difficult decision for social
:09:41. > :09:44.workers to make. But we have to find ways of once these decisions
:09:44. > :09:48.have been made of pursuing adoption much more quickly. Thank you very
:09:48. > :09:56.much. Stay with us, we are going to go live to the chamber at Holyrood
:09:56. > :10:00.and hear what Angela Constand -- Constance the Minister has to say.
:10:00. > :10:04.As you say, the Minister is at the moment on her feet, she's
:10:04. > :10:08.acknowledged there are still delays in the adoption system and has said
:10:08. > :10:13.that a multiagency approach is needed where everyone is working
:10:13. > :10:17.together. Labour, however, want to see a definitive, definite
:10:17. > :10:24.timetable on improvements, on what's for many a emotive and at
:10:24. > :10:27.times harrowing issue. Let's cross now live to the chamber.
:10:28. > :10:31.It could be Taylored to meet the individual needs of a child and
:10:31. > :10:35.provide them with security, stability and greater
:10:35. > :10:40.predictability in their lives. The Scottish Government brought this
:10:40. > :10:44.legislation into effect in 2009 and along with this we introduced
:10:44. > :10:49.legislation which provided recognition for kinship carers for
:10:49. > :10:53.the first time. This also can provide stability, security and
:10:53. > :10:56.predict kwrabgt in --ability in the lives and experiences of looked
:10:56. > :10:59.after children and parliament has come together to debate the role
:10:59. > :11:04.and support the kinship carers receive and we discussed the work
:11:04. > :11:14.that the Scottish Government is involved in to secure the access to
:11:14. > :11:18.benefits and support for these carers. Yes. The parliament
:11:18. > :11:21.welcomed the steps taken by the Government to ensure that kinship
:11:21. > :11:25.carers received the same benefits as foster carers, but that hasn't
:11:25. > :11:28.been implemented throughout Scotland. What steps will she take
:11:28. > :11:35.to make sure that there's not a postcode lottery in support and
:11:35. > :11:39.financial support for kinship carers? As Miss Grant is aware
:11:39. > :11:43.local authorities are best placed to make decisions about financial
:11:43. > :11:49.support, both for kinship carers and children at that local level. I
:11:49. > :11:53.think that's a very important part of local democracy that we should
:11:53. > :11:58.support and cherish. I think we also have to acknowledge that
:11:58. > :12:03.kinship care is distinct from foster care and that kinship care
:12:03. > :12:08.is very much a fundamental, a type of family care that families have
:12:08. > :12:13.done for generations and I am sure that we can all look at the history
:12:13. > :12:17.of our own families and see examples of kinship care. Now this
:12:17. > :12:22.Government has done more than anyone else to support kinship
:12:22. > :12:25.carers and we will continue to engage with the Westminster
:12:25. > :12:32.Government constructively, particularly on the issue of
:12:32. > :12:36.welfare reform. I suppose no matter where we stand on these issues
:12:36. > :12:40.politically, I do think we all agree that kinship care is another
:12:40. > :12:45.important option to provide permanent care for our children and
:12:45. > :12:50.that's made possible by the looked after children regulations and
:12:50. > :12:54.permanence orders, both of which are unique to Scotland. I do very
:12:54. > :12:59.much cherish this consensus that we have for our looked after children
:12:59. > :13:04.and I won't be using our most vulnerable children as a political
:13:04. > :13:07.football. But what I would say is that if I need to ruffle a few
:13:07. > :13:11.feathers to make progress for our looked after children, I will,
:13:11. > :13:16.because I think what this Government is about in partnership
:13:16. > :13:21.is that we have to support and challenge each other, both within
:13:21. > :13:26.this parliament and both at local and national Government and, of
:13:26. > :13:29.course, within the voluntary sector. The children looked after
:13:29. > :13:33.statistics shows that whilst fewer children are being received into
:13:33. > :13:38.care, they are coming into care younger and are being looked after
:13:38. > :13:42.for much longer. While aspects of this are given a clear sign that we
:13:42. > :13:46.are getting it right for more of our young people, in the sense that
:13:46. > :13:52.those who are at risk are being identified younger and earlier, but
:13:52. > :13:58.what we now need to focus on is the overall care journey and the length
:13:58. > :14:02.of time that journey takes. And we all recognise I am sure that formal
:14:02. > :14:06.attainment and securing improvements in a child's life
:14:06. > :14:12.chances is only possible with the secure attachments that safe,
:14:12. > :14:16.stable, nurturing home environment can support. Appropriate, timely
:14:16. > :14:21.and child-centred care planning will ensure that these placements
:14:21. > :14:26.are achieved. However, we will all have examples of where intervention
:14:26. > :14:29.could have happened earlier. This was highlighted in the care and and
:14:29. > :14:35.permanence planning for looked after children report and this
:14:35. > :14:38.report was published on 20th June 2011 by the Scottish childrens
:14:38. > :14:41.report administration. The report found children are still waiting
:14:41. > :14:46.for a significant period of time in a system that should be working
:14:46. > :14:51.with their needs and and rights at the centre. Two years may not seem
:14:51. > :14:57.long for adults, but it is an eternity for children and some may
:14:57. > :15:00.say that this time-skaeubl is -- scale is justifiable but it it
:15:00. > :15:05.never be acceptable for a child to be more than ten years for a
:15:05. > :15:10.permanent home - nor can it be acceptable for the majority of
:15:10. > :15:15.children as is the case in this report, to have waited more than
:15:15. > :15:21.four years. I will take the point. I mow, Minister, you are aware I
:15:21. > :15:27.adopted a daughter and have some knowledge of this, but I wonder if
:15:27. > :15:33.you would agree with me that time is still required in these issues,
:15:34. > :15:40.particularly when it comes to home assessments and the suitability of
:15:40. > :15:45.those who are going to adopt a child. That time should not be cut
:15:45. > :15:53.in any way. We must be very, very careful in how we deal with those
:15:53. > :15:58.who are going to benefit from having a child that is not a birth
:15:58. > :16:08.child, so that the time - I do say that the bureaucracy thereafter
:16:08. > :16:08.
:16:08. > :16:15.then we should take side to that, Pather son will agree that we can
:16:15. > :16:20.both achieve thorough and timely assessments. While I can imagine
:16:20. > :16:25.where parents often contest or birth parents often contest an
:16:25. > :16:31.adoption in court, I can see how an adoption would take for example two
:16:31. > :16:35.years. But in terms of other examples, other options to achieve
:16:35. > :16:39.parents for children, whether it is foster carers, a parents' order.
:16:39. > :16:43.That does not need to take two years. I think across the system we
:16:44. > :16:47.have to remember that time is off the essence. Our children grow and
:16:48. > :16:54.develop from the day that they are born. At the end of the day they
:16:54. > :16:58.only have one childhood. The report is very important and I
:16:58. > :17:02.published the Scottish Government's response to the report on 21 June
:17:02. > :17:06.outlining our plans to address the issues raised. Our aim is nothing
:17:06. > :17:09.less than a radical shift? Care planning towards fewer placements
:17:09. > :17:17.for children, early permanence decisions for every child, and a
:17:17. > :17:23.system that puts the child at the very centre. And this offers
:17:23. > :17:26.children in care the best possible chance for securing an adoptive or
:17:26. > :17:31.permanent placement. Our response lays the building blocks towards a
:17:31. > :17:34.goal that sees the care system deliver every child a safe, stable
:17:34. > :17:38.and enoughing home. A child's journey through care starts with an
:17:38. > :17:42.assessment of the parents' capacity to provide the consistent care that
:17:42. > :17:47.a child needs to attain their potential. Therefore, we recognise
:17:47. > :17:50.the need for more robust assessment tools to determine parental
:17:50. > :17:55.capacity and to identify the support that parents need in order
:17:56. > :17:58.to provide the care for the child. Through the work supported by the
:17:58. > :18:03.early years framework we are committed to identifying children
:18:03. > :18:07.at risk and taking the steps to prevent that risk materialising. We
:18:07. > :18:11.are committed to taking effective action to help parents, families
:18:11. > :18:15.and communities to develop their own solutions using accessible
:18:15. > :18:18.high-quality public services. Whether that's parenting classes,
:18:18. > :18:22.therapeutic support for parents experiencing drug and alcohol
:18:22. > :18:29.problems, and support with health and disability issues as opposed to
:18:29. > :18:32.name but a few. We want to support every child in their whole journey
:18:32. > :18:36.through care, the transition they experience and beyond. We need to
:18:36. > :18:42.ensure that appropriate decisions are made quickly and that support
:18:42. > :18:48.is in place to provide permanent care for children, who cannot live
:18:48. > :18:53.with their birth parents. Our response looks to highlight and
:18:53. > :18:56.share good practice in these areas. We plan to make use of our new
:18:56. > :19:00.centre for excellence for looked after children, which launched in
:19:00. > :19:05.September. We are asking the centre to work collaboratively with our
:19:05. > :19:08.partners to improve the experiences in the lives of all looked after
:19:09. > :19:13.children, their families and care leavers. Will it work to ensure
:19:13. > :19:16.that all those involved in the care of looked after children have the
:19:16. > :19:20.appropriate skills, knowledge and support, and this any decisions
:19:20. > :19:24.about looked after children are well evidenced and always have the
:19:24. > :19:27.child's welfare and rights at is paramount consideration.
:19:27. > :19:30.This Government places great importance on working in
:19:30. > :19:36.partnership in order to deliver our ambitions for Scotland's children.
:19:36. > :19:39.And we are in a period of engagement with key stakeholders
:19:39. > :19:43.about how to translate the key areas of work into specific
:19:43. > :19:46.activities. I have written to local authorities seeking their
:19:46. > :19:50.involvement in this process. The Scottish Government started the
:19:50. > :19:55.work to create a more responsive system. Very already mentioned the
:19:55. > :20:00.centre for excellence, which will be instrumental in the future work
:20:00. > :20:03.being undertaken. But we have also created Scotland's first national
:20:03. > :20:09.adoption register, which is already providing greater opportunities for
:20:09. > :20:12.placing children in stable and permanent families. I I urge local
:20:12. > :20:17.authorities to make a commitment to use the national register by the
:20:17. > :20:22.ends of this year. As corporate parents I would ask each one of us
:20:22. > :20:25.to challenge local authorities, health service, organisations and
:20:25. > :20:29.our own constituencies to engage with this work being undertaken.
:20:29. > :20:32.Every organisation involved in the lives of looked after children will
:20:32. > :20:37.have examples of practice which works to promote the wellbeing of
:20:37. > :20:42.the children it serves. Each of hawse a duty to help, identify and
:20:42. > :20:45.promote good practice as widely as possible. I do also intend to
:20:46. > :20:51.increase the pace of change. I will be asking all local authorities to
:20:51. > :20:54.provide me with their adoption services plans by April 2012. And I
:20:54. > :20:58.will expect to see an bottom Britishous approach and evidence
:20:59. > :21:02.that every local authority has clear plans to raise the numbers of
:21:03. > :21:10.young people afforded permanence or adoption.
:21:10. > :21:17.We are after all... One of the issues facing minority communities
:21:17. > :21:21.in particular visible mirnt communities is the fact that --
:21:21. > :21:24.minority communities is that adoptions are not taking place in
:21:24. > :21:31.their own communities. Children are being denied those opportunities.
:21:31. > :21:36.They lose language and culture and a religious background. I wonder if
:21:36. > :21:39.you can instruct local authorities to try to marry these up by traig
:21:39. > :21:44.to make the adoption system easier and better understood by the
:21:44. > :21:47.minority communities, so they can play a fuller role in the
:21:47. > :21:53.community? I thank the member for that point. That's an example of
:21:53. > :21:57.the type of work that we would want to see evident in the adoption and
:21:57. > :22:03.permanence plans that local authorities will have to provide me
:22:03. > :22:08.by 2012. I will be vigilant to the point that he makes.
:22:08. > :22:12.Finally, Presiding Officer, I want to say that we are all as corporate
:22:12. > :22:17.parents responsible for ensuring that the care system is child-
:22:17. > :22:20.centred and provides appropriate and timely decisions and secures
:22:20. > :22:23.permanent placements as soon as possible. And that we owe it to
:22:23. > :22:27.looked after children to ensure that they have access to the
:22:27. > :22:34.opportunities that this can provide. I move the motion in my name.
:22:34. > :22:36.APPLAUSE Angela Constance, the Minister. And
:22:36. > :22:45.Stephanie Stone from Barnardo's Scotland is still here with us.
:22:45. > :22:49.She's been listening to that statement. They were talking about
:22:49. > :22:54.taking a scythe to bureaucracy. Did did Minister ace words mean much to
:22:54. > :22:58.you? Did you get much of a commitment to taking that scythe to
:22:58. > :23:02.bureaucracy? Obviously it is encouraging that they are going to
:23:03. > :23:06.ask for adoption plans. Hopefully local authorities will say how they
:23:06. > :23:11.are managing their attitude to adoption and how they are
:23:11. > :23:16.evidencing what they are doing. In terms of the assessment of adoptive
:23:16. > :23:20.pcts I think the Minister said, and I agree with her, that rigorous
:23:20. > :23:26.assessment and the length of time it takes are not necessarily one
:23:26. > :23:29.and the same thing. So assessments can be rigorous and they can be
:23:29. > :23:32.very well evidenced without necessarily taking the length of
:23:33. > :23:38.time that they have been taking. There is the other aspect, of
:23:38. > :23:43.course, of the length of time it takes to get children through the
:23:43. > :23:48.courts system. The two things go hand in hand. One didn't start
:23:48. > :23:54.after the other stops. We need to be working concurrently so that
:23:54. > :23:57.Children's Plans are processed quickly at the same time as we are
:23:57. > :24:00.assessing is families, taking on the task of adoption. I want to
:24:00. > :24:05.pick up on the dialogue between the Scottish Government and the local
:24:05. > :24:09.authorities. What's happening at the moment? Is the Scottish
:24:09. > :24:12.Government keeping a close enough eye on local authorities? We were
:24:12. > :24:16.hearing from David Cameron this week, in England he was naming and
:24:16. > :24:18.shaming local authorities? I think the system? Scotland is slightly
:24:19. > :24:22.different. Yes the Government obviously looks at the figures and
:24:22. > :24:26.is interested in them and will be taking note where they are not
:24:26. > :24:29.happy, but it's a different system. I don't think you can transfer
:24:29. > :24:33.necessarily the style of one to the style of the other.
:24:33. > :24:37.There's a big change with the national adoption register, I take
:24:37. > :24:41.it that's just started, so it is maybe difficult to assess its
:24:41. > :24:47.success so far. The national adoption register is welcomed by
:24:47. > :24:52.everybody in the adoption field in Scotland. And in fact it's one of
:24:52. > :24:57.the reasons Barnardo's moved back into adoption. Having that register
:24:57. > :25:02.enables speedy linking of families available for adoption with the
:25:02. > :25:05.children who are looking for adoptive families. To the best of
:25:05. > :25:10.my knowledge the register is doing well. There are already a number of
:25:10. > :25:14.links they are pursuing. I'm not aware if matches have taken place
:25:14. > :25:17.yet but I do understand there's a number of links that are being
:25:17. > :25:22.pursued. The Minister mentioned the centre of excellence. Can you tell
:25:22. > :25:27.us more about that, and is your charity involved in that? Yes, some
:25:27. > :25:31.people from our charity are on the steering group. The centre of
:25:31. > :25:36.excellence is very much welcomed as the Minister said. We are looking
:25:36. > :25:40.for them to assist local authorities and organisations like
:25:40. > :25:44.ourselves in evidencing how we move forward with the best plans for
:25:44. > :25:47.children. Why do you think adoption is
:25:47. > :25:50.hitting the headlines just now? We are hearing from the Prime Minister,
:25:51. > :25:56.we have a statement in Parliament today. It is National Adoption Week,
:25:56. > :26:00.but it is certainly an issue that's raised, that is going up the
:26:00. > :26:04.political agenda, compares to years past? It is. I think it is because
:26:04. > :26:09.we are so much more aware of the numbers of children who've remained
:26:09. > :26:13.in care for an unhealthy length of time. These children have remained
:26:13. > :26:17.in the care system. They are part of the reason why the numbers of
:26:17. > :26:21.looked after children has increased. These children weren't placed for
:26:21. > :26:25.adoption many years ago when some of them should have been. This has
:26:25. > :26:29.become an urgent issue. We know the emotional damage that's inflicted
:26:29. > :26:34.on these children because they are not living in homes where they've
:26:34. > :26:39.been claimed. I think people realise that this has to change.
:26:39. > :26:42.Stephanie Stone from Barnardo's Scotland, thank you.
:26:42. > :26:49.You're watching Politics Scotland from the BBC. Still to come on the
:26:49. > :26:54.programme: It is not a magic bullet solution but it's a crucial part.
:26:54. > :26:56.It is the missing piece of the jigsaw in Scotland. As the Scottish
:26:56. > :27:03.Government relaunches plans to tackle problem drinking, political
:27:03. > :27:06.opponents brew up challenges to minimum alcohol pricing.
:27:06. > :27:09.The UK Government has revised its plans to change public sector
:27:09. > :27:11.pensions to try to avert strike action at the end of this month.
:27:11. > :27:15.David Cameron was asked about that during Prime Minister's Questions,
:27:15. > :27:20.and he was also asked about the latest on the euro crisis. Here's a
:27:20. > :27:25.flavour of what happened. Speaker, with the average 60-year-
:27:26. > :27:30.old living ten years longer than in the 1970s public sector pension
:27:30. > :27:33.reform is essential. Will the Prime Minister ensure that reform is fair
:27:33. > :27:37.for my constituents, in terms of the taxpayer, and public sector
:27:37. > :27:40.workers? My honourable friend makes an important point and the Chief
:27:40. > :27:43.Secretary to the Treasury will be making a full statement to the
:27:43. > :27:48.House. It does seem to be absolutely vital that we do
:27:48. > :27:53.something that's fair to taxpayers and to public sector workers. The
:27:53. > :27:56.costs of our public sector pensions system is up by a third in the last
:27:56. > :28:00.decade. It isn't fair to go on as we are, but the new arrangements
:28:00. > :28:04.must be fair to people who work hard in the public sector and on
:28:04. > :28:08.whom we are all relying. Can I tell the House that low and middle
:28:08. > :28:12.income earners will see getting more from their public sector
:28:12. > :28:16.pensions. Everyone will keep what they've built up so far. Anyone
:28:16. > :28:21.within ten years of retirement will see no change in their pension
:28:21. > :28:25.arrangements. At the end of this people in the public sector will
:28:25. > :28:29.actually still get far better pensions than people in the private
:28:29. > :28:32.sector. It is time the party opposite was clear they do not
:28:32. > :28:40.support the strikes later this month.
:28:40. > :28:46.THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband. Mr Speaker, does the Prime Minister
:28:46. > :28:52.believe that grove of 0.5% over the last year and unemployment at a 17
:28:52. > :28:55.year high point to the success or failure of his economic plan?
:28:55. > :29:02.Obviously everybody wants the British economy to grow faster.
:29:02. > :29:05.That's what everybody wants. But I have to, I have to, very to say to
:29:05. > :29:10.the honourable gentleman, yesterday's figure of 0.5%, which
:29:10. > :29:19.was better than many people expected, isn't it noticeable that
:29:19. > :29:23.he cannot even bring himself to welcome news like that?
:29:23. > :29:28.The key issue I think we value to address is this. There is a global
:29:28. > :29:32.storm in the world economy today, and it is in our interest to help
:29:32. > :29:36.others confront that global storm, but we have also got to keep the
:29:36. > :29:39.British economy safe. We won't keep it safe if we add to our deficit,
:29:39. > :29:44.add to our debt and put interest rates at risk.
:29:44. > :29:53.THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband. Speaker, first he blamed the Labour
:29:53. > :29:57.Government, then he... First he blamed the Labour Government, then
:29:57. > :30:00.he blamed Europe. Yesterday he was apparently blaming his Cabinet
:30:00. > :30:04.colleagues for the lack of growth in our economy. The truth about
:30:04. > :30:09.this Prime Minister is when things go wrong it is never anything to do
:30:09. > :30:15.with him. People in my constituency in north Belfast and right across
:30:15. > :30:21.the country are desperately worried about the increasing costs of gas,
:30:21. > :30:25.electricity, home heatling oil -- home heating oil. What will the
:30:25. > :30:29.Prime Minister do to help people in this situation? And will he reverse
:30:29. > :30:33.the cuts to winter fuel allowance, which hits senior citizens? It is
:30:33. > :30:35.not good enough surely to say he's following the plans of the
:30:35. > :30:39.opposition. He's done so many things differently from the
:30:39. > :30:47.opposition, why isn't he going to do something different with winter
:30:47. > :30:50.We have kept the plans set out by the last Government. On the cold
:30:50. > :30:54.weather payments we have actually taken the increase in cold weather
:30:55. > :30:57.payments that was meant forever one year and maintained that so if
:30:57. > :31:01.there is a phrrly cold winter people will be getting that help.
:31:01. > :31:04.The other steps is making sure that energy companies give people proper
:31:04. > :31:07.information about the lowest tariffs they can get and we have
:31:07. > :31:12.proper reform of the energy market. Again something that the party
:31:12. > :31:15.opposite has now suddenly started to talk about but did nothing about
:31:15. > :31:19.in Government. When the Prime Minister goes to G20 meeting over
:31:19. > :31:23.the next couple of days, will he try and persuade his colleagues of
:31:23. > :31:26.the urgency of coming up with some detail on the eurozone settlement
:31:26. > :31:30.reached last week. It's not at all clear how Greece is going to get
:31:30. > :31:34.out of the difficulties, even if this referendum passes. European
:31:34. > :31:38.banks will need shoring up well before next summer and as for the
:31:38. > :31:42.new rescue fund which may be needed sooner than we think, it doesn't
:31:42. > :31:48.actually exist. Will he not accept the G20 now now needs to show the
:31:48. > :31:51.same urgency and sense of of purpose two years ago when it met
:31:51. > :31:56.in London. Otherwise governments are going to be condemned to being
:31:56. > :32:00.dragged along in their weight. is right in what he says about the
:32:00. > :32:03.urgency of this meeting and the necessity of its agenda. I think
:32:03. > :32:07.some progress was made at the European Council meeting a week ago
:32:07. > :32:11.where actually for the first time they did accept a proper write down
:32:12. > :32:15.of Greek debt which has to be part of the solution. Also a proper
:32:15. > :32:19.recapitalisation of Europe's banks, done to a credible test, rather
:32:19. > :32:23.than the incredible test we have had in months gone by. And the
:32:23. > :32:26.final element which he refers to rightly, which needs to have more
:32:26. > :32:30.detail added and more substance added, and that is to make sure
:32:30. > :32:35.there is a proper firewall to stop contagion in the eurozone. The need
:32:35. > :32:38.has got even greater. Of course we can't involve ourselves in Greek
:32:38. > :32:42.domestic politics but it's become even more urgent to put meat on the
:32:42. > :32:45.bones of these plans to show that we are removing one of the key
:32:45. > :32:49.obstacles to tphroeble growth -- global growth, which is the failure
:32:49. > :32:52.to provide a proper plan to deal with problems in the eurozone.
:32:52. > :32:55.will be back to Westminster in a few moments. First, Scotland has
:32:55. > :32:58.taken a major step towards becoming the first country in Europe to
:32:58. > :33:02.introduce a minimum price for alcohol. The Scottish Government
:33:02. > :33:05.has launched its plans for a vote on the issue during this
:33:05. > :33:10.parliamentary session. It was defeated last time, but here's a
:33:10. > :33:14.flavour of the arguments for and against in this second round.
:33:14. > :33:18.Moderate and responsible drinkers will not be affected by minimum
:33:18. > :33:22.pricing, partly because they don't drink very much but also because
:33:22. > :33:25.the products they tend to drink are not those that will be affect.
:33:25. > :33:30.Minimum pricing is about targeting the very cheap, very strong
:33:30. > :33:33.products that are doing so much damage to our communities. The
:33:33. > :33:37.relationship between the price of alcohol and the consumption of
:33:38. > :33:41.alcohol is well known. We see it emerging evidence from Canada that
:33:42. > :33:45.a minimum price reduces consumption, so it's not a magic bullet solution,
:33:45. > :33:48.we never said it is, but it's a crucial part of an overall approach
:33:48. > :33:52.and right now it's the missing piece of the jigsaw in Scotland.
:33:52. > :33:56.Our view it won't tackle the people this is aimed at. For example, it
:33:56. > :34:00.won't have impact on people who drink in pubs, because the price is
:34:00. > :34:05.unlike throeu reach that level. Also, for the small amount of extra
:34:05. > :34:08.money those people are likely to carry on spending anyway. It will
:34:08. > :34:14.penalise responsible families who the might want to share a bottle of
:34:14. > :34:20.wine at home, they might have to pay more. Let's go to the Scottish
:34:20. > :34:24.parliament garden lobby now, I am joined by Jim Eadie from the SNP
:34:24. > :34:27.and Dr Richard Simpson from Labour. We have seen last time and now time
:34:27. > :34:32.the overwhelming evidence in favour of a minimum price for alcohol. We
:34:32. > :34:35.have been hearing Labour talk about their problems during the Scottish
:34:35. > :34:38.election campaign, perhaps they should have got on board with
:34:38. > :34:42.backing minimum pricing for alcohol, why in this second round are you
:34:42. > :34:46.not supporting it? First of all, the word overwhelming isn't correct.
:34:46. > :34:49.There's only one study and that is the Sheffield study which is a
:34:49. > :34:52.modelling study and there is a little evidence from Canada in
:34:52. > :34:56.terms of the social responsibility pricing. And the Scottish police
:34:56. > :34:59.forces and the Chief Medical Officer for for Scotland. That's
:34:59. > :35:02.not evidence, that is opinion. There is a lot of opinion out there
:35:02. > :35:09.in favour of it, I accept that. But the fact remains that it is a
:35:09. > :35:13.single modelling study, that's only been tried once and that's in an
:35:13. > :35:16.Aboriginal community in us a and it was a particular situation that
:35:17. > :35:20.wasn't apply to Scotland -- Australia. It's an opinion, but
:35:20. > :35:23.it's gathered from their own frontline evidence, isn't it?
:35:23. > :35:26.it's not gathered from their own frontline evidence because they
:35:26. > :35:30.don't know about minimum pricing. Many people are actually
:35:31. > :35:35.understandably very concerned about alcohol, as is the Labour Party,
:35:35. > :35:39.they also set, as we do, that price and sraeupblt are -- availability
:35:39. > :35:41.are major issues, but the problem with minimum pricing is first of
:35:41. > :35:49.all there is a question of its legality, will the courts strike it
:35:49. > :35:54.down? And the UK Minister skapb Milton has said the advise she
:35:54. > :35:57.received that will happen. It will give �140 million windfall to
:35:57. > :36:02.supermarkets. It will not deal with binge drinking and the Sheffield
:36:02. > :36:06.group have admitted that. Fourthly, it will not tackle heavy drinking
:36:06. > :36:12.in the 18-24-year-old, where even the doctors have grave concerns
:36:12. > :36:14.about the substantial increase. The Sheffield study show it is will
:36:14. > :36:21.minimally affect that group. That's some of the reasons. There are many
:36:21. > :36:28.more. I will give you one more, and that is that it will only affect
:36:28. > :36:32.the poorest 30%. The least well-off. The top 70% of earners will not be
:36:32. > :36:36.affected at all and therefore hazardous drinking which is much
:36:36. > :36:41.more in that particular group, that's the richer people drink more,
:36:41. > :36:44.they will not be affected. We need a cultural change. Let's turn to
:36:45. > :36:49.Jim Eadie, what do you think of that, there is a raft of arguments
:36:49. > :36:52.against that Dr Simpson has put forward and particularly on the
:36:52. > :36:56.point about this opinion as opposed to evidence coming from the Chief
:36:56. > :36:59.Constables, for example? Can I deal with that. It will not do for
:36:59. > :37:04.Richard Simpson to talk about the problem but to do nothing about it.
:37:04. > :37:07.The Scottish Government is determined to listen to what the
:37:07. > :37:11.healthcare professionals on the ground, people who work in GP
:37:11. > :37:15.practices, in our health centres, the people who know the reality of
:37:15. > :37:18.alcohol misuse in our accident and emergency departments. What they
:37:18. > :37:22.tell us is they want the Government to do this, they want to us
:37:22. > :37:25.introduce minimum pricing and that is why we are determined to tackle
:37:25. > :37:28.this, this time around. Now, if you consider the point that was made
:37:28. > :37:32.about teenager drinkers t cannot be right that in Scotland today a
:37:32. > :37:37.young person, a teenager, can buy enough alcohol to kill themselves
:37:37. > :37:43.for �5 or less. This Government is determined to tackle that. We will
:37:43. > :37:47.Bring It On Home forward -- we will bring forward minimum pricing. It's
:37:47. > :37:51.time, frankly, that you listen to them, instead of lecturing them
:37:51. > :37:58.about what they should be saying on this subject. What about that, Dr
:37:58. > :38:02.Simpson? Well, as usual, they try to compound evidence out of opinion
:38:02. > :38:06.and that is not correct. I will say this, to suggest that we do not
:38:06. > :38:09.want to take this issue seriously is rubbish. I was the deputy
:38:09. > :38:14.justice Minister that commenced the process that led to the licensing
:38:14. > :38:17.bill which has not been fully operational until 2009 and has
:38:17. > :38:20.already demonstrating a reduction in deaths, so to say we are not
:38:20. > :38:24.taking this seriously is rubbish. I will tell you the other thing, and
:38:24. > :38:28.that is that the public out there and the professionals indeed want
:38:28. > :38:33.the parties to have a discussion about all possible measures. What
:38:33. > :38:38.the Government has done with this minimum unit Bill is to introduce a
:38:38. > :38:42.Bill that's so narrow it will not allow any debate, discussion, it it
:38:42. > :38:47.treats it as a magic bullet. That's not the case. If he can assure me
:38:47. > :38:52.today that Bill can be amended, I will be very, very happy but I tell
:38:52. > :38:57.you... Take him up on that point. He is sticking his head in the sand.
:38:57. > :39:01.The Government has always been willing to discuss with other
:39:01. > :39:04.parties. We will look positively at any constructive proposals that are
:39:04. > :39:07.brought forward, provided they are evidence. But the reality is, and
:39:07. > :39:10.you cannot escape this, Richard, that the healthcare professionals
:39:10. > :39:13.on the ground want this to happen. The Chief Medical Officer for
:39:14. > :39:17.England and for Wales and for Northern Ireland and for Scotland
:39:17. > :39:21.wishes this to happen. The directors of public health in every
:39:21. > :39:23.health board in Scotland say they need minimum pricing if we are to
:39:23. > :39:27.rebalance Scotland's damaging relationship with alcohol. This
:39:27. > :39:30.Government is determined to tackle the problem and if the other
:39:30. > :39:36.parties want to join us in their battle we are absolutely prepared
:39:36. > :39:39.to work with them to achieve that. Dr Simpson, one more point about
:39:39. > :39:43.you mentioning that Anne Milton said it may be illegal, in this
:39:43. > :39:48.case as some people have said is the law not an ass in this case and
:39:48. > :39:51.we could actually try and put minute phoupl pricing -- minimum
:39:51. > :39:55.pricing forward and it could be challenged by the European Union
:39:55. > :40:00.but let's go ahead and do it? it's khaplged by the European --
:40:00. > :40:03.challenged by the European Union it will be be -- challenged. We are
:40:03. > :40:08.part of Europe, the law is what it is. I will say if Jim Eadie is
:40:08. > :40:11.saying to me today that Bill that they have just produced is capable
:40:11. > :40:15.of amendment, with the substantial number of proposals which Labour
:40:15. > :40:19.has come forward with, then I will be much happier. But tkoeu not
:40:19. > :40:23.believe that is the case. We will find that the amendments we were
:40:23. > :40:26.proposing will be ruled out. The only recourse for the Labour Party
:40:26. > :40:29.will be to actually go for a private members Bill in order to
:40:29. > :40:34.address some of the problems that we accept are there and can be
:40:34. > :40:38.addressed and should be addressed, but by a raft of other measures.
:40:38. > :40:43.Minimum unit pricing penalises the least well-off in our communities.
:40:43. > :40:46.It does not address the culture. Take up on that point, Jim Eadie.
:40:46. > :40:49.They do have concerns about this single measure. The evidence
:40:49. > :40:53.produced by the Sheffield model study, and which will be rerun
:40:53. > :40:58.before the Scottish Government sets a price, made it clear in the first
:40:58. > :41:06.year would you save 50 lives and prevent hospital admissions, that
:41:06. > :41:08.has to be something worth doing. -- it's what the healthcare
:41:08. > :41:12.professionals want. This Government will rise to the challenge and do
:41:12. > :41:18.what is necessary to tackle our damaging relationship with alcohol.
:41:18. > :41:22.Thank you both very much. Let's rejoin Lorraine Davidson from
:41:22. > :41:25.The Times to talk about this more. A very heated debate there,
:41:25. > :41:29.obviously. Nothing has cooled down over the year, what do you make of
:41:29. > :41:33.it? The Labour Party are now in danger of tying themselves
:41:33. > :41:37.newspaper knots, they got very difficult time at the election and
:41:37. > :41:39.in part it was because of this kind of oppositional attitude. Their
:41:39. > :41:43.arguments now around this are basically that it could be illegal,
:41:43. > :41:46.well the Scottish Government can't bring forward legislation unless
:41:46. > :41:51.it's passed through their lawyers and has been deemed as something
:41:51. > :41:58.that can stand up to a challenge. There is a case of tobacco that was
:41:58. > :42:02.set at minimum price in Italy which did fall foul of EU laws and it was
:42:02. > :42:09.a similar public health argument. So, there are fears around that but
:42:09. > :42:14.they must have legal advice that tells them they can go ahead. The
:42:14. > :42:18.offer of the sunset clause could have been grabbed back, all the
:42:18. > :42:22.arguments about it won't make much difference, she was putting forward
:42:22. > :42:26.a sensible proposal of let's bring it in, let's try it because at the
:42:26. > :42:30.end of the day Scotland has a serious problem with this and it's
:42:30. > :42:40.kids, young people going out drinking cheap stuff on street
:42:40. > :42:44.
:42:44. > :42:47.corners, getting completely boozed up, and committing extreme acts.
:42:47. > :42:52.They are rerunning the Sheffield study to look at the price, do you
:42:52. > :42:56.think it might be ramped up to even 50p a unit? I don't think that
:42:56. > :42:59.would be surprising if that were to happen T could be critical the
:42:59. > :43:04.level at which this is set in terms of the impact. Certainly, for
:43:04. > :43:08.people who are going out and yes they might be drinking too much
:43:08. > :43:12.Chablais or whatever over a weekend but they're not the people causing
:43:12. > :43:18.complete and utter carnage. It's the stuff at the lower end and
:43:18. > :43:21.actually even at the 45p level it's the cider and all this, the cheap
:43:22. > :43:26.vodkas that young kids are using to get boozed up on that are the real
:43:26. > :43:30.problem and even at 45% the difference to that is significant.
:43:30. > :43:33.Let's widen out the debate. We saw a heated exchange there. We have
:43:34. > :43:40.seen between Labour Party and the SNP a number of heated exchanges
:43:40. > :43:49.over the independence referendum, the argument at Westminster, we
:43:49. > :43:55.have seen the Lib Dems being criticised for having a - do you
:43:55. > :44:03.think there is there is tension? think tension is putting it lightly.
:44:03. > :44:09.Certainly feelings are running very high at the moment. Labour feeling
:44:09. > :44:14.really done down after the election. SNP perhaps getting carried away in
:44:14. > :44:19.the way New Labour did, after a landslide, you feel invincible.
:44:19. > :44:22.They need to be careful of that and shouting down anyone and everyone
:44:22. > :44:26.that disagrees with them and there is some stuff, if you look at
:44:26. > :44:31.social media, if you say anything that's remotely critical of the SNP
:44:31. > :44:35.or the Scottish Government, Ian Grey had a point, you will be
:44:35. > :44:41.attacked and it's pretty nasty stuff. So they need to find a way
:44:41. > :44:44.of putting a lid on that and taking people with them and continuing in
:44:44. > :44:48.the consensual approach they had before the election. There is a
:44:48. > :44:51.danger with politicians that the SNP have got very good
:44:51. > :44:54.communications structure, but you get amateurs coming in, youngsters
:44:54. > :44:58.that think they're doing the right thing, think they're being on
:44:58. > :45:03.message but they cross a line and get carried away and you get people
:45:03. > :45:07.who have actually never been in the real world and they live in this
:45:07. > :45:11.political bubble, they think that's what you do, they think politics is
:45:11. > :45:14.about being nasty to people. People out there are fighting to keep jobs
:45:14. > :45:19.and pensions, the last thing they want is politicians getting down to
:45:19. > :45:24.the level of, he wasn't very nice to me, and I think he is a dictator.
:45:24. > :45:29.It's absolutely pathetic and just really puts people off politicians.
:45:29. > :45:32.OK, thank you. With the surprise announcement by
:45:32. > :45:35.the Greek Prime Minister to put the euro deal to the people of Greece
:45:35. > :45:41.in a referendum grabbing the political agenda, there are now
:45:41. > :45:43.real and genuine concerns for the future of the single currency. With
:45:44. > :45:52.that and the other issues being discussed at Westminster today,
:45:52. > :45:59.let's cross to our correspondent No shortage of topics featuring
:45:59. > :46:04.amongst MPs here. We have the issue about Greece, the euro and whether
:46:04. > :46:08.Greece will default on its payments. We also have the thorny issue of
:46:09. > :46:13.public sector payments and the political row which has blown up
:46:13. > :46:17.today about renewable energy and the uncertainty that could be
:46:17. > :46:27.caused by an independence referendum. In shortage of topics
:46:27. > :46:30.
:46:30. > :46:35.for me to discuss with my four guests.
:46:35. > :46:41.That warn from Citigroup today that the instability caused by will we
:46:41. > :46:45.have a referendum and when will that be is potentially putting
:46:45. > :46:51.investors off coming to Scotland. It is utter nonsense. A lot of
:46:51. > :46:55.investment is going into Scotland in renewables at the moment from
:46:55. > :46:59.companies likes Mitsubishi and others. We have a great deal of
:46:59. > :47:03.businesses supporting us in the last election. We made clear we
:47:03. > :47:07.would have an independence referendum. This is not a problem
:47:07. > :47:12.for businesses investing in Scotland at all. Malcolm Bruce you
:47:12. > :47:15.represent a north-east constituency. Are you seeing any companies
:47:15. > :47:20.hesitating putter their hands in their pockets to invest because of
:47:20. > :47:25.the referendum question? There is uncertainty. Tax changes by
:47:25. > :47:32.Government also causes uncertainty, and I've made my views known about
:47:32. > :47:36.that. You can't dismiss Citibank as being ill informed. They are saying
:47:36. > :47:40.future investors may look askance at Scotland because of the
:47:40. > :47:47.uncertainty this presents. We have enough trouble in the eurozone
:47:47. > :47:51.because of the Greek referendum. Uncertainty is what the markets
:47:51. > :47:57.make. You cannot just dismiss that as irrelevant because it doesn't
:47:57. > :48:01.suit your argument. David Mundell, cue decide between referendum on
:48:01. > :48:05.Scottish independence is going to be held. The Scottish Government is
:48:05. > :48:09.in the best place to resolve it in the short term by telling us what
:48:09. > :48:14.they propose in their referendum. We've got no detail on it, when it
:48:14. > :48:21.will take place, what the questions are. We've repeatedly asked for
:48:21. > :48:26.answers. Nothing's been forthcoming. That's why we do have the uncertain
:48:26. > :48:30.ti. They want to know what's happening with the referendum and
:48:30. > :48:34.when it's taking place. Surely if a company thinks it is a good
:48:34. > :48:36.business proposition to invest in Scotland the politics wouldn't be a
:48:36. > :48:40.determining factor. I don't agree with that. Particularly at the
:48:40. > :48:45.moment, in terms of renewables, where the renewable obligation
:48:45. > :48:49.comes from the whole of the country, that's the uncertainty that
:48:49. > :48:54.Citibank were pointing to. Why would poim invest in a situation
:48:54. > :48:59.where the renewables would be severely cut in Scotland or
:48:59. > :49:04.consumers' bills will go up very high. It is not good enough to
:49:04. > :49:07.dismiss and belittle people he doesn't agree. There's a serious
:49:07. > :49:13.issue for him and the SNP to address. Public sector pensions. We
:49:13. > :49:16.seem to have the unions, despite the meetings today, still on a
:49:16. > :49:20.collision course with the Government. I think any collision
:49:20. > :49:24.course is the fault of the Government for the way in which
:49:24. > :49:27.they've behaved in these negotiations up until now. I hope
:49:27. > :49:31.there's a negotiated settlement. I'm a former trade union official
:49:31. > :49:35.and I know from my experience that getting a negotiated settlement is
:49:35. > :49:38.the best way forward. If there is any difficulty it will be the fault
:49:38. > :49:42.of the Government. If the Government was more generous there
:49:42. > :49:46.wouldn't be threats of strikes? Government wants a negotiated
:49:46. > :49:50.settlement. Negotiations are ongoing. It is disappointing we've
:49:50. > :49:54.got the prospect of strike action before there is an opportunity for
:49:54. > :49:57.those negotiations to conclude. I Fawley understand that those people
:49:57. > :50:00.who are affected by decisions like this are not going to be happy
:50:00. > :50:04.about it but we have to be realistic about public sector
:50:04. > :50:08.pensions in the long term, and make sure that they are sustainable and
:50:08. > :50:11.that we have the money that people can get the pension that they are
:50:11. > :50:17.expecting. From a party political point of view, are you happy that
:50:17. > :50:20.it is your party and indeed your Chief Secretary to the Treasury,
:50:20. > :50:24.Danny Alexander, who seems to be digging his heels in on this and
:50:24. > :50:28.saying no, we are not going to go any further? I'm happy that we have
:50:28. > :50:31.a coalition Government that is determined to tackle the financial
:50:31. > :50:34.and economic problems facing this problem with a sense of purpose and
:50:34. > :50:37.unity, that are giving us lowest interest rates in Europe outside
:50:37. > :50:40.Germany. That I think is a huge benefit to the people of Scotland
:50:40. > :50:44.and the whole of the UK. We have to take these difficult decisions and
:50:44. > :50:47.see them through. Of course we have to negotiate and of course we've
:50:47. > :50:51.got to accommodate people's concerns and come one the best
:50:51. > :50:55.outcome. If we did not and took the advice of other parties, interest
:50:55. > :51:01.rates would shoot up. Economic uncertainty would increase and the
:51:01. > :51:04.economy would be in a much worse state than it is now. Is this going
:51:04. > :51:07.to be one of those rare occasions between Government in Scotland and
:51:08. > :51:12.in London actually speak with a common voice? The position of the
:51:12. > :51:15.Scottish Government is quite clear. They don't want to increase pension
:51:15. > :51:19.contributions. It's the wrong time to do so. That's taking more money
:51:19. > :51:23.out of hard-pressed families at a difficult time. It is going to do
:51:23. > :51:27.nothing for consumer confidence. There's a real issue that people
:51:27. > :51:30.may opt out of these schemes rather than pay the increased
:51:30. > :51:35.contributions that they can't afford. That's a disaster waiting
:51:35. > :51:41.to happen in future. The difficult the Scottish Government face is the
:51:41. > :51:47.Treasury have made clear if they don't implement the rules the
:51:47. > :51:51.budget will be slashed. But, if the money has got to be saved or if you
:51:51. > :51:54.can't afford the pension bill as it is, surely not good saying to
:51:54. > :51:58.people, we are not going to expect tow pay any more into your not
:51:58. > :52:02.but it's the timing as well. People are very hard pressed at the moment.
:52:02. > :52:08.The economy is bumping along. Consumer confidence is very low. To
:52:08. > :52:12.take money out of people's pockets at a time like this is the wrong
:52:12. > :52:18.thing to do. It will reduce confidence and spending and make
:52:18. > :52:22.matters worse rather than improve them. We seem to have what is
:52:22. > :52:25.almost an opera going on in Greece at the moment, agreeing a deal and
:52:25. > :52:29.then saying they'll have a referendum on it. For someone with
:52:29. > :52:35.a financial background like yufrbgs how worried shwe be about what's
:52:35. > :52:39.happening in Greece? I think we should be very worried, and the
:52:39. > :52:44.Greeks should be worried to. A small economy, which isn't that
:52:44. > :52:50.important, is holding us to ransom, because it is unable to meet its
:52:50. > :52:54.commitments, having signed up to a deal. If Greece says no, we have a
:52:54. > :52:58.crisis with the euro, our biggest trading partner. We've got to
:52:58. > :53:04.recognise that it has long-term implications for Scotland. An opt
:53:04. > :53:08.Scotland doesn't even know what it is currency is, nor what the
:53:08. > :53:11.conditions are, is adding uncertainty on uncertainty, which
:53:11. > :53:14.is catastrophic. Britain is in a difficult position. We are on the
:53:14. > :53:19.outside looking in. We are not a member of the euro, so we are not a
:53:19. > :53:23.member of the key countries making those decisions. Yet we could be
:53:23. > :53:27.hugely influenced and affected by what happens. Well, we are going to
:53:27. > :53:31.be impacted by what happens with the euro that's why it is important
:53:31. > :53:35.to us that there's a dealing on Greece, a deal that holds, that
:53:35. > :53:39.sustains and that there's a deal on the whole euro issue. We want to
:53:39. > :53:43.see more flesh on the bone, in relation to that. There's been a
:53:43. > :53:47.number of discussions, most of which have been good words but not
:53:47. > :53:50.actually action. We need that to be followed through in the forthcoming
:53:50. > :53:55.days.. We can't pretend that there'll not be an impact on
:53:55. > :54:00.Britain by a failure of the euro. Whilst I wouldn't support Britain
:54:00. > :54:03.being in the euro, I don't want to see it fail. There must be a sigh
:54:03. > :54:08.of relief that your party did not take introduce the euro when you
:54:08. > :54:12.were in Government? I don't think the economic conditions were ever
:54:12. > :54:16.right to make that decision, so it didn't happen. What's important now
:54:16. > :54:19.is that there is real leadership from the Government at the G20 in
:54:19. > :54:25.Cannes. We need to get international action to get this
:54:25. > :54:27.resolved as quickly as possible. We have seen the toxicity of the
:54:27. > :54:32.European issue for the Conservative Party at Westminster that.
:54:32. > :54:37.Shouldn't stop David Cameron trying to take leadership in the G20 to
:54:37. > :54:45.try to get this resolved. A yes or no answer to look into your
:54:45. > :54:49.economic crystal ball, is Greece going to default on its payments,
:54:50. > :54:53.and will the euro survive? I think it is likely that Greece will
:54:53. > :54:58.default. I think it is likely if it does it will crash out of the euro
:54:58. > :55:03.and the euro will have to rethink its parameters? It is possible but
:55:03. > :55:11.tinge euro will survive. Yes, they will default but the euro will
:55:11. > :55:15.survive in some form. Thank you all. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.
:55:15. > :55:20.There you have it, Andrew. Pessimism about Greece's position
:55:20. > :55:24.and also some concern about the euro and the future of the euro as
:55:24. > :55:28.well. It is an issue I think we'll be returning to in the weeks and
:55:28. > :55:31.months ahead. Indeed, David. Thank you.
:55:31. > :55:36.I'm joined for a final time by our political commentator from The
:55:36. > :55:41.Times, Lorraine Davidson. Let's pick up on the European issue.
:55:41. > :55:45.David said it was an opera going on in Greece. Malcolm Bruce said he
:55:45. > :55:48.was very worried. How worried should we be and what would the
:55:49. > :55:53.impact be in the UK and Scottish economies? It is disastrous. It is
:55:53. > :55:56.more of a Greek tragedy really. It's a very unwelcome development,
:55:56. > :56:02.having a referendum which, as all the politicians have pointsed out,
:56:02. > :56:05.it is difficult to see how could it be won. It is going to have
:56:05. > :56:09.terrible implications for the your open. Our economy is intrinsically
:56:09. > :56:14.linked to Europe's. We've got politician there is saying phew,
:56:14. > :56:19.isn't it good we didn't go into did euro! All it means that we didn't
:56:19. > :56:23.go into the euro. Our economy is linked to theirs and yet we are not
:56:23. > :56:28.at the important meetings where we can influence the debate and rescue
:56:28. > :56:33.the euro. It is almost the worst possible position. This will impact
:56:34. > :56:37.on us massively and yet we are not in there fighting. In fairness to
:56:37. > :56:43.Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy, they did put together a sustainable
:56:43. > :56:47.deal to ensure the survival of the euro. Our panel there pretty much
:56:47. > :56:51.thought that Greece would default. If they did, the contagion might
:56:51. > :56:59.spread? It might, you could end up with people thinking we can't play
:56:59. > :57:03.about with this, we are now staring down the barrel of the gun. If
:57:03. > :57:09.everybody starts dropping like flies, the disastrous impact of
:57:10. > :57:13.that right across Europe, I think reality might kick in. Committee
:57:13. > :57:17.can get into did Domesday scenario. That's why we are seeing the
:57:17. > :57:23.markets falling, because they always look at worst case scenarios,
:57:23. > :57:29.because they have to, but I think in reality it could be contained in
:57:29. > :57:35.Greece. There was a Greek mirror to Scottish politics, the Greek
:57:35. > :57:39.referendum causing uncertainty about the euro. We heard about
:57:39. > :57:44.Citigroup causing uncertainty. That was denied strongly in that
:57:44. > :57:47.discussion. One of the SNPs' problems in materialy days of the
:57:47. > :57:52.Scottish Parliament was the uprising of business. That's gone
:57:52. > :57:58.away, because they've been in government. They've been pretty
:57:58. > :58:01.business friendly. Alex Salmond's problem was that he stood up at
:58:01. > :58:05.conference and he said it would be powered on the back of renewables.
:58:05. > :58:10.Now a serious player is saying don't go near Scotland, this is a
:58:10. > :58:14.bit of a problem. So, they seem to be linking that to the referendum
:58:14. > :58:17.rather than the aftermath of the referendum. So I can see a
:58:17. > :58:21.situation now where the opposition are going to be buoyed by this and
:58:21. > :58:27.they are going to be trying to stir up other companies. If David
:58:27. > :58:34.Cameron had any sense he would be trying to wind people up and using
:58:34. > :58:36.his business contacts to make this more of a debate in Scotland.