:00:16. > :00:17.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland.
:00:18. > :00:20.Coming up on the programme this afternoon:
:00:21. > :00:26.will face questions on her handling of the NHS following a critical
:00:27. > :00:31.And could it be the end of the controversial
:00:32. > :00:37.MSPs will vote on the issue later this afternoon.
:00:38. > :00:39.And here at Westminster, the Prime Minister wades
:00:40. > :00:42.into the row over whether Scotland and England football players should
:00:43. > :00:44.be allowed to wear poppies when they face each on Armistice
:00:45. > :00:54.Theresa May calls the FIFA ban "outrageous".
:00:55. > :00:58.Shona Robison will face questions from MSP's today on her handling
:00:59. > :01:00.of the NHS following a critical report from the public spending
:01:01. > :01:06.The annual review of the financial performance of the health
:01:07. > :01:10.service found pressures of costs and lack of preparation
:01:11. > :01:12.for combining hospital services with care in the community.
:01:13. > :01:18.Andrew Kerr has more from the Scottish Parliament.
:01:19. > :01:26.What's going on? It is a really busy afternoon at
:01:27. > :01:34.Holyrood. We have the NHS statement from Shona Robison. Audit Scotland
:01:35. > :01:38.looking at the state of the NHS and opposition MSPs saying it is in a
:01:39. > :01:43.state with rising staff costs, missing seven out of eight targets,
:01:44. > :01:49.and rising drug costs. And a lack of moving away to care in the
:01:50. > :01:56.community. That has not been happening. Ruth Davidson called it a
:01:57. > :02:01.scandal. The Health Secretary will be giving a statement and then
:02:02. > :02:06.taking questions from MSPs. Also this afternoon, related to that,
:02:07. > :02:10.we've got a Conservative health debate where they will be looking
:02:11. > :02:15.again at this Audit Scotland report. As you were mentioning in the
:02:16. > :02:20.headlines, another Conservative debate, an attempt to call a motion
:02:21. > :02:22.to repeal the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act. It is really
:02:23. > :02:28.interesting today because when you take those debates on the health
:02:29. > :02:33.service and the football, we are looking at a government defeat, we
:02:34. > :02:35.think, on those issues. We are looking at a double defeat this
:02:36. > :02:41.afternoon which makes it an interesting day at Holyrood.
:02:42. > :02:45.Does that mean they have to get rid of the act?
:02:46. > :02:49.It doesn't when it comes to the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act
:02:50. > :02:55.but the motion is calling for a repeal. There is also a Memphis
:02:56. > :02:59.motion calling for it to be appealed so ministers will really have to
:03:00. > :03:03.think again. And actually of course ministers here like to think about
:03:04. > :03:09.the will of the parliament, maybe when it comes to a European issue,
:03:10. > :03:14.post-Brexit. Well, the will of the parliament will be going against the
:03:15. > :03:18.Offensive Behaviour at Football Act. The ministers will want to try to
:03:19. > :03:23.respect that and they will be looking for something probably from
:03:24. > :03:27.them, whether that is some kind of statement or agreeing to look at it
:03:28. > :03:32.again and address some concerns. It will be an interesting one, Gordon.
:03:33. > :03:34.It will be an interesting one, Gordon.
:03:35. > :03:35.The education secretary has been setting out
:03:36. > :03:37.the thinking behind plans for new regional education boards.
:03:38. > :03:40.John Swinney was under examination by MSPs on Holyrood's Education
:03:41. > :03:55.Our Education Correspondent Jamie McIvor was watching.
:03:56. > :04:00.We didn't learn anything new today about what powers the boards
:04:01. > :04:02.will actually have or how they will operate.
:04:03. > :04:04.What we did learn more about is why Mr Swinney thinks
:04:05. > :04:08.The government's looking at changes to school governance.
:04:09. > :04:15.It wants to give as much power as possible to individual schools
:04:16. > :04:19.But it also wants to create these new boards that will work
:04:20. > :04:23.Now Mr Swinney says there are several good reasons for wanting
:04:24. > :04:26.An OECD report encouraged more co-operation to help push
:04:27. > :04:34.And closing the attainment gap is a top priority of course.
:04:35. > :04:36.But here's the bit that Mr Swinney's critics in local
:04:37. > :04:46.He said it was unacceptable that some education
:04:47. > :04:48.authorities were making more progress than others -
:04:49. > :04:52.that the capabilities of different authorities varied.
:04:53. > :04:55.You've got to remember that education is the single biggest -
:04:56. > :05:02.arguably the most important - council service.
:05:03. > :05:14.You can imagine his critics will be interested to hear that.
:05:15. > :05:16.And within local government some talk of a 50 year process
:05:17. > :05:23.What they fear is that they will be squeezed.
:05:24. > :05:25.Now there's no suggestion of taking schools out
:05:26. > :05:31.What some councils are wondering about is just what their actual
:05:32. > :05:37.On the one hand, headteachers look set to gain more official powers.
:05:38. > :05:40.And the question is will these boards devolve power down
:05:41. > :05:42.from Edinburgh or suck power up from councils.
:05:43. > :05:50.But remember the government's also looking at the idea of a funding
:05:51. > :05:52.formula for schools which could potentially reduce
:05:53. > :06:00.the practical powers of a council too.
:06:01. > :06:07.The local government body COSLA is yet to respond -
:06:08. > :06:10.though in general it's been critical of moves which could reduce council
:06:11. > :06:13.control of schools and it isn't convinced about the direction
:06:14. > :06:20.It says it has noted the comments with interest.
:06:21. > :06:26.The largest teachers union the EIS says that rather than focussing
:06:27. > :06:29.on structural changes, the government's review of school
:06:30. > :06:32.governance should concern itself with how teaching and learning can
:06:33. > :06:36.be enhanced and professional collaboration supported.
:06:37. > :06:41.The role and remit of the proposed regional boards, and any value
:06:42. > :06:43.that this additional structural layer might bring, remains unclear
:06:44. > :06:45.and the key question over the benefit this would bring
:06:46. > :06:50.to schools, teachers and pupils remains to be answered."
:06:51. > :06:53.Well, to discuss the day's stories I'm joined by the
:06:54. > :06:59.Daily Record's political editor, David Clegg.
:07:00. > :07:05.Education is interesting, David, because Nicola Sturgeon sticks her
:07:06. > :07:09.reputation on it. For once the politicians can't come out with hot
:07:10. > :07:11.air and they need to meet their targets.
:07:12. > :07:18.John Swinney is going to be judged on this whatever happens. It was
:07:19. > :07:21.Nicola Sturgeon's number one priority. The Brexit vote has made a
:07:22. > :07:26.difference to that and there is now more time, energy and scrutiny being
:07:27. > :07:31.exerted on that rather than the education system but I think the SNP
:07:32. > :07:34.are clear that come the next Holyrood election, how they move
:07:35. > :07:39.towards narrowing this attainment gap we always hear about will still
:07:40. > :07:43.be a big issue. It is a very difficult and tricky issue.
:07:44. > :07:47.I read the speaking to John Swinney a couple of weeks ago and he said
:07:48. > :07:51.there will be targets and benchmarks set out so the public know how to
:07:52. > :07:55.judge whether we've done what we said we would do. It gives the hard
:07:56. > :07:59.edge to this because it can't just be as, for example, has been
:08:00. > :08:04.criticised in the health service that they have a vague target about
:08:05. > :08:07.integrating health and social care but according to Audit Scotland
:08:08. > :08:12.there are no benchmarks, nobody knows how much it would cost and
:08:13. > :08:17.then there is staff. In education it is going to have to be more precise.
:08:18. > :08:20.How pupils are performing is quite easily judged and we know there is
:08:21. > :08:24.going to be some kind of standardised testing which will
:08:25. > :08:28.allow them to do that. I have to say we are a good number of months from
:08:29. > :08:30.the election and there isn't a great deal of clarity about what exactly
:08:31. > :08:37.these proposals are going to involve. These regional education
:08:38. > :08:41.boards, that is a radical departure from previous policy.
:08:42. > :08:46.John Swinney said it could mean money goes directly into schools
:08:47. > :08:50.rather than via local authorities. It is unclear whether this is a bit
:08:51. > :08:54.of tinkering around the edges or whether this looks more like the
:08:55. > :09:02.kind of thing happening in England. It feels like it is quite a Tory UK
:09:03. > :09:07.Government education reform. There is no talk of increased funding. It
:09:08. > :09:10.looks like it will have to happen within any existing funding
:09:11. > :09:14.framework so how exactly you get better performance without spending
:09:15. > :09:17.more money is unclear. It is also politically dangerous,
:09:18. > :09:21.isn't it, because with the greatest sympathy for the Scottish
:09:22. > :09:26.Government, what they have staked their reputation on is something
:09:27. > :09:32.which by its very nature, inequality gaps... It is a bit like public
:09:33. > :09:38.sector deficit. It is a residual so it is difficult to target. Something
:09:39. > :09:45.like this, you can target, we will make more people pass but to target
:09:46. > :09:48.we will reduce inequality, there are so many faxes.
:09:49. > :09:52.We don't perhaps know all of the factors. And they are all deeply
:09:53. > :09:58.entrenched and over a long period. There has been a lot of talk for a
:09:59. > :10:01.lot of use, since the SNP came into power or most, about a switch to
:10:02. > :10:06.early years education and early intervention that you only start to
:10:07. > :10:13.see the fruits of that five, ten, 15 or 20 years down the line. Whenever
:10:14. > :10:16.you are trying to get quick results, I think this is tricky.
:10:17. > :10:22.It is going to have to be something like getting more people from
:10:23. > :10:25.lower-income families into universities, but even that...
:10:26. > :10:29.Say you try to do that over the next five years, that means they are
:10:30. > :10:33.already teenagers already so by that stage a lot of their educational
:10:34. > :10:37.outcomes have been set from childhood and all of those different
:10:38. > :10:44.factors. I don't know that we are going to see any great benefit in a
:10:45. > :10:46.few years. It is more about how primary schoolchildren are
:10:47. > :10:50.performing and the attainment gap there is something they could look
:10:51. > :10:55.at more quickly. The other point is this is going to require a massive
:10:56. > :11:01.fight with teaching unions. They are going to the reluctant about a lot
:11:02. > :11:06.of the requirements here. There is an implicit philosophical
:11:07. > :11:12.shift as well because all of this curriculum staff, which all seemed a
:11:13. > :11:18.bit touchy-feely and let's do more and suddenly we have a new exam
:11:19. > :11:24.system or a new testing system right through primary and secondary
:11:25. > :11:26.school. That isn't really compatible.
:11:27. > :11:31.It is difficult and it is different. I think there is a general
:11:32. > :11:34.acceptance that if you want to focus on attainment you have to have some
:11:35. > :11:39.way of judging how to do it so how you can do it without some kind of
:11:40. > :11:50.testing, and equally if the test results are being collated how did
:11:51. > :11:54.you end up without league tables,? Shona Robison, the damning Audit
:11:55. > :11:58.Scotland report. The criticisms in there, they say they are going to do
:11:59. > :12:01.all of these things but there are no systems in place so we know whether
:12:02. > :12:05.they have done it or not, that is the kind of thing they can't afford
:12:06. > :12:08.to do in education. The NHS report from Audit Scotland
:12:09. > :12:12.is one of the most damning reports I've read about the current Scottish
:12:13. > :12:15.Government because it isn't just saying there isn't enough money in
:12:16. > :12:19.the system, which the Scottish Government will inevitably say it is
:12:20. > :12:22.due to a Westminster funding settlement, it is about what they
:12:23. > :12:27.are not doing. They are not planning properly.
:12:28. > :12:33.We are going to interrupt you because Shona Robison is doing
:12:34. > :12:38.precisely that right now. Here she is. Our clear vision to
:12:39. > :12:42.achieve this change has been acknowledged by the auditor general
:12:43. > :12:45.who said last week that the Scottish Government has got a real vision to
:12:46. > :12:57.reshape services. We have made significant investments
:12:58. > :13:04.in our NHS. Our resource budget has increased by 8.2 pursuant since
:13:05. > :13:08.2010. This government will go further to ensure that the NHS
:13:09. > :13:12.receives the resources it needs to be equipped for the future. For
:13:13. > :13:17.example, we are increasing the NHS revenue budget by ?500 million over
:13:18. > :13:23.inflation over this Parliament however it is important to invest
:13:24. > :13:27.more than money and it is imperative we try reform. As well as progress
:13:28. > :13:32.with integration we have taken the steps to excel the shift in care
:13:33. > :13:37.into delivery of health and care services, increasing demands mean we
:13:38. > :13:42.are accelerating change. We have shifted more NHS funding to support
:13:43. > :13:47.social care, published a national clinical strategy and a medicine
:13:48. > :13:51.report, accelerated plans for an investment of ?200 million in our
:13:52. > :13:56.new elective sectors and reviewing targets and indicators through work
:13:57. > :14:00.being led by Sir Harry Burns. As part of a plan to increase health
:14:01. > :14:06.spending by almost ?2 billion by the end of this Parliament we will take
:14:07. > :14:10.the share dedicated to primary services to 11% of front line NHS
:14:11. > :14:14.spending. We will increase investment in primary care by an
:14:15. > :14:19.additional ?500 million, helping to shift the balance of care and having
:14:20. > :14:25.at least half of our front line NHS spend being invested in acute
:14:26. > :14:30.hospitals. Despite the challenges our NHS is performing well and staff
:14:31. > :14:33.are to be thanked for working to address increase in demand for
:14:34. > :14:43.services. We now have almost 1.5 million outpatient attendances every
:14:44. > :14:47.year. And since 2005, there have been 25% more hip replacements that
:14:48. > :14:51.are being carried out but waiting times have reduced by 50%. For
:14:52. > :14:52.cataracts we are seeing a 30% increase in procedures with a 40%
:14:53. > :15:04.reduction in waiting times. Nor patients than ever before are
:15:05. > :15:09.being treated for cancer with over 1,000 new being treated to the
:15:10. > :15:14.standard. Performance against the 62-day standard is lower than we
:15:15. > :15:19.want. That's why we are investing ?100 million over the next five
:15:20. > :15:26.years to I prove cancer care. Scotland's core A departments have
:15:27. > :15:30.been the best performing in the UK, outperforming England by 8
:15:31. > :15:34.percentage points in August 2016. The audic Scotland reports confirms
:15:35. > :15:39.that NHS staffing is at historically high levels, with over 11,000 more
:15:40. > :15:43.staff working in the health service than when we took office. We are
:15:44. > :15:48.acting to ensure our medical workforce grows further. Increasing
:15:49. > :15:52.the number of undergraduate medical school and speciality training
:15:53. > :15:57.place... As well as creating a graduate entry medical school. We
:15:58. > :16:02.are working to establish national workforce planning to help develop
:16:03. > :16:12.the clinical strategy and protect our commitment to no compulsory
:16:13. > :16:17.redundancies. And reducing agency spend. We'll use workforce planning
:16:18. > :16:21.efforts to make better use of a staff bank system and framework
:16:22. > :16:25.contract when supplementary staff are needed. We have consistently
:16:26. > :16:28.prioritised investment in the NHS and have increased front line health
:16:29. > :16:33.spend and will continue to prioritise front line health
:16:34. > :16:38.services as we increase the NHS refer knew budget by ?500 million
:16:39. > :16:44.more than inflation over the course of this Parliament. NHS territorial
:16:45. > :16:51.boards received a 5% increase this years. That is an increase of ?24
:16:52. > :16:53.million, delivering an above inflation increase, and an
:16:54. > :17:07.additional ?250 million when the We'll consider the Audit Scotland
:17:08. > :17:13.proposal for a flee year budget management to examine how to provide
:17:14. > :17:17.NHS boards withflect. Within the context of the accounting and
:17:18. > :17:21.framework set out by the Treasury. Despite this record level of
:17:22. > :17:25.resource we recognise the challenge of meeting increased demand. As the
:17:26. > :17:30.Auditor General made clear, more needs be done than simply giving the
:17:31. > :17:37.NHS extra money. I can confirm that by the end of this year we'll set
:17:38. > :17:43.nowt a single framework a transform arable change plan to bring together
:17:44. > :17:47.the different strands of reform I have set out. I will keep Parliament
:17:48. > :17:50.informed of the progress. Audit Scotland has been clear that
:17:51. > :17:54.reorganisation of services will be required. But that doesn't mean that
:17:55. > :17:58.every proposal made by every board will be approved. We are committed
:17:59. > :18:02.to robust evidence of the policy making that delivers better
:18:03. > :18:06.outcomes. However, to stand against any change anywhere in acute
:18:07. > :18:10.services is not credible. Where change is advocated we must ensure
:18:11. > :18:16.that local boards explore any issues and benefits. I want tory that it'll
:18:17. > :18:19.any major change proposals must be subject to formal public
:18:20. > :18:22.consultation and ministerial approval. Within this I will take
:18:23. > :18:29.the opportunity to update Parliament on the specific service changes
:18:30. > :18:31.debated last month. On cleft surgery the recommendation endorsed by the
:18:32. > :18:38.Royal College of surgeons to consolidate on a single site in
:18:39. > :18:43.Glasgow is distinct in that it relates to specialist services. I am
:18:44. > :18:47.now considering the proposal in line with the precedents of Ministers
:18:48. > :18:51.making the final decision on national specialist services. I've
:18:52. > :18:54.met with clinical teams in Glasgow and Edinburgh. And in the light of
:18:55. > :19:00.the discusses and full consideration of the evidence I expect to make a
:19:01. > :19:04.decision by the end of the year. NHS Lanarkshire's longer term plans as
:19:05. > :19:10.part of their local clinical strategy have been designated as
:19:11. > :19:14.major change by the board. Boards can choose to dedicate changes as
:19:15. > :19:18.major without the need to ask Ministers. These plans were subject
:19:19. > :19:21.to formal public consultation between 2 August and yesterday. The
:19:22. > :19:27.board intends to consider the outcomes of this at their meeting on
:19:28. > :19:31.30th November, informed by the report on the consultation. Any
:19:32. > :19:35.board decision made on associated specific major change, service
:19:36. > :19:40.proposals, will be subject to my approval. What is beyond question is
:19:41. > :19:46.that all three acute hospitals will retain their A department for the
:19:47. > :19:53.benefit of local people. The NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde board
:19:54. > :19:58.agreed in October that their proposals op paediatric services at
:19:59. > :20:02.the royal Alex Dr Hospital should be designated major. The board is
:20:03. > :20:07.scheduled to consider the outcomes by spring of next year, as informed
:20:08. > :20:10.by a report on the consultation by the Scottish health council. Any
:20:11. > :20:15.board decision made on these service change proposals will then be
:20:16. > :20:20.subject to my approval or otherwise. Presiding Officer, in terms of the
:20:21. > :20:24.remaining proposals from NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, those affecting
:20:25. > :20:32.deliveries at the community maternity units at the Inverclyde
:20:33. > :20:37.Royal Hospital, those affecting care and those affecting light burn
:20:38. > :20:42.hospital are subject to ongoing public engagement. This cannot be
:20:43. > :20:47.prejudged. Some may not proceed at all. The Scottish health council
:20:48. > :20:51.continues to monitor the engagement activity and will offer a view on
:20:52. > :20:56.the designation of the proposals at the end of the activity, likely to
:20:57. > :21:00.be in December. Ministers will consider the views from the Health
:21:01. > :21:05.Board and health council and come to a decision. The board will consider
:21:06. > :21:12.the next steps as informed by the designation decisions at its meeting
:21:13. > :21:15.on 20th December. While I will not prejudge these proposals they must
:21:16. > :21:19.be consistent with national policy. Such as the review of maternity
:21:20. > :21:24.services due to publication soon. I want to put on record this
:21:25. > :21:31.Government's commitment to the vision and to say that any proposals
:21:32. > :21:35.for light burn must address the decisions of 2011. I'll keep
:21:36. > :21:42.Parliament informed with these proposals. In conclusion, I believe
:21:43. > :21:46.there's a clear case to further shift from acute to primary and
:21:47. > :21:51.community services. I am confident there's a broad consensus on this
:21:52. > :21:57.and that the Audit Scotland report supports this view. Certainly so far
:21:58. > :22:00.no-one and no party in this chamber has brought forward and alternative
:22:01. > :22:04.way forward. I believe this consensus can be underpinned by the
:22:05. > :22:09.recognition that our NHS continues to require increased investment
:22:10. > :22:15.understand it must reform to ensure that it remains true to its founding
:22:16. > :22:19.principles, publicly owned and free at the point of need. That was the
:22:20. > :22:25.Health Secretary, Shona Robison. The Scottish Government says it
:22:26. > :22:27.would be "supportive" of a plan for a safe injecting facility
:22:28. > :22:29.for drug users in Glasgow, subject to the business case for it,
:22:30. > :22:32."being acceptable." The Public Health Minister,
:22:33. > :22:34.Aileen Campbell, was responding to a topical question
:22:35. > :22:35.at Holyrood yesterday. The Minister was also
:22:36. > :22:45.pressed on the legality Glasgow city joint integration board
:22:46. > :22:51.agreed yesterday for a business case to be developed to pilot safer drug
:22:52. > :22:56.consumption facility in Glasgow. We see value in this proposal and are
:22:57. > :23:02.supportive of it subject to the business case to be presented in
:23:03. > :23:06.February 2017 being acceptable. I thank the Minister for that answer.
:23:07. > :23:09.There is no question that something must be done to tackle drug
:23:10. > :23:13.addiction, not only in Glasgow but across Scotland. There's been a
:23:14. > :23:18.significant increase in the number of drug-related deaths in Scotland,
:23:19. > :23:23.which is why the SNP's decision to cut drug and alcohol funding in last
:23:24. > :23:30.year's budget is so baffling and misguided. Professor Knell McKechnie
:23:31. > :23:34.of the centre for substance use research has cautioned that there's
:23:35. > :23:38.a danger we are moving away from a commitment to get addicts off drugs.
:23:39. > :23:44.What can did Minister say to ensure the chamber that getting people off
:23:45. > :23:49.illegal drugs and preventing drug use remain key priorities of the
:23:50. > :23:55.Government's drugs promise From this Government's point of view in terms
:23:56. > :23:58.of the significant funding by our commitment to help people help
:23:59. > :24:03.themselves and help people become more stable in life and tackling
:24:04. > :24:07.associated risky cavers that we have a clear commitment to tackle and do
:24:08. > :24:12.all we can to help Scotland become much more healthy as a nation and
:24:13. > :24:16.ensure that people can live their lives without being unnecessarily
:24:17. > :24:20.dependent upon illegal drugs. Possession of heroin is of course an
:24:21. > :24:26.offence. But it is also an offence to permit premises to be used for
:24:27. > :24:29.the supply of heroin. What is the Scottish Government's position on
:24:30. > :24:32.whether the criminal law should be enforced in the circumstances that
:24:33. > :24:38.we are talking about? And what does the Minister make of the suggestion
:24:39. > :24:43.by the UN's international near International Narcotics Control
:24:44. > :24:52.Board that fix rooms could breach international treaties? The Lord
:24:53. > :24:55.Advocate would need to authorise any proposal for an injecting facility.
:24:56. > :24:59.Surely somebody with his knowledge would have understood that. I don't
:25:00. > :25:02.think we should get into this debate in looking at this from a point of
:25:03. > :25:11.view that something is right or wrong or black or white. We need to
:25:12. > :25:16.look at the issues people have face with drug dependency issues. There
:25:17. > :25:27.are issues around homelessness and the trauma that has led them down
:25:28. > :25:31.this path. The 20% cut is one of the most retrograde steps in tackling
:25:32. > :25:35.substance misuse. It has led to an outbreak of HIV in Glasgow. The
:25:36. > :25:41.chair of Edinburgh's integrated joint board, that will lead to a
:25:42. > :25:49.total 1.3 million year on year cut to services in our nation's capital.
:25:50. > :25:53.That is a fire sale. Does the cabinet agree that initiatives, we
:25:54. > :25:57.should embrace it for Scotland and will she commit to reversing the cut
:25:58. > :26:01.to ADPs, the cost of which is measured out in human lives? From my
:26:02. > :26:07.perspective and this Government's perspective, the fact that we have
:26:08. > :26:10.some encouraging signs of drug taking amongst our younger
:26:11. > :26:14.population being lower than for some considerable time, many of our
:26:15. > :26:22.approaches are working. We need to work across the Parliament. This is
:26:23. > :26:25.a Scotland-wide issue which requires all portfolios, housing and social
:26:26. > :26:30.security, to ensure we can give people the opportunity to move
:26:31. > :26:37.forward with their lives with dignity and respect. Minister, the
:26:38. > :26:40.Scottish Green Party support community based supervised medical
:26:41. > :26:47.intervention such as this. This is an additional provision to deal with
:26:48. > :26:54.long term users, for whom absence recovery isn't on the horizon. Would
:26:55. > :26:57.applaud the aim of saving lives and acknowledge if this were rolled out
:26:58. > :27:02.across Scotland there is an opportunity to save even more lives?
:27:03. > :27:06.Again, I think we need to make sure that the evidence is robust. That's
:27:07. > :27:11.what the IJB yesterday agreed to for that case to be made. We need to
:27:12. > :27:15.look at this evidence. If that is given the go ahead, need to look at
:27:16. > :27:19.that pilot and look at the evidence that that produces.
:27:20. > :27:22.David Clegg, what do you make of this?
:27:23. > :27:29.It is a very bold proposal. It has the support of the Scottish
:27:30. > :27:37.Government. Several local Glasgow SNP MPs have been supportive of it
:27:38. > :27:42.publicly. I am quite surprised that it has been proposed and seemingly
:27:43. > :27:46.accepted with what's been quite a limited criticism. I think a few
:27:47. > :27:52.years ago it what have been, there would have been more reaction to
:27:53. > :27:58.this than there has been this week. There is around 500 drug users in
:27:59. > :28:01.Glasgow who are publicly injecting drugs. That's disturbing for the
:28:02. > :28:06.people in the communities that they live. In it's dangerous for the
:28:07. > :28:10.addicts involved. It is also dangerous for people with children
:28:11. > :28:14.that are playing in areas where there is discarded needles. You say
:28:15. > :28:18.you are surprised by the lack of criticism of this, but is there a
:28:19. > :28:22.danger there will be a backlash? You can imagine people saying, hang on a
:28:23. > :28:26.minute, why are we using public Metropolitan Police to support
:28:27. > :28:30.people taking drugs? Adam Tomkins from the Conservatives, who you
:28:31. > :28:34.would generally feel are likely to be the party most critical of
:28:35. > :28:39.reluctant to endorse these type of proposals, his questions there were
:28:40. > :28:43.largely untechnical and litre matters: How will this work? Will
:28:44. > :28:47.this cause us problems with international legal agreements? How
:28:48. > :28:53.will it be enforced by the Crown Office. But the answer in law is we
:28:54. > :28:56.fudge it. We fudge already, let's face it, possession of cannabis. The
:28:57. > :29:01.law is there and what happens is something different. He wasn't
:29:02. > :29:06.making philosophical objections. It was a technical scrutiny he was
:29:07. > :29:10.carrying out there. The there's been some drug experts that have raised
:29:11. > :29:14.concerns about whether this is the right way to go, but I don't think
:29:15. > :29:20.there's been just in principle this idea is wrong, that you have
:29:21. > :29:26.something which could be argued to be state-endorsed drug consumption.
:29:27. > :29:30.There hasn't been a great deal of that which I found surprising.
:29:31. > :29:32.I'm joined by Ben Macpherson from the SNP, the Conservatives'
:29:33. > :29:34.Oliver Mundell, Mark Griffin for Labour, and Ross Greer
:29:35. > :29:51.Sorry, from the Greens. I almost made you a Tory. Unless you want to
:29:52. > :29:54.become a Tory. I might forgive you that it will
:29:55. > :29:59.take some time. Let's start with the Conservatives.
:30:00. > :30:04.Oliver, we had the statement from Shona Robison about health policy,
:30:05. > :30:09.the debate you instigated. Were you satisfied with what she said? I
:30:10. > :30:14.don't think so. We have seen missed target after missed target and a
:30:15. > :30:18.real staffing crisis in the NHS. I think it is easy to forget the
:30:19. > :30:24.Scottish Government have been in power for almost ten years. They
:30:25. > :30:31.haven't even begun to tackle these problems and it isn't good enough.
:30:32. > :30:37.Then, what struck me in the Audit Scotland report was not so much
:30:38. > :30:40.missed targets, it was on this flagship supposedly policy of
:30:41. > :30:44.integrating Health and Social Care Act, the report said the Scottish
:30:45. > :30:47.Government doesn't know how much it'll cost, has no benchmarks in
:30:48. > :30:53.place to know whether we actually achieve it or not and there is no
:30:54. > :30:56.policy and staffing to with it. As Oliver says, you have been in power
:30:57. > :31:00.for almost ten years and it seems extraordinary could.
:31:01. > :31:06.extraordinary The implication in the integration
:31:07. > :31:12.is an ongoing process but what we have just heard about the cause of
:31:13. > :31:17.the last ten years. There are 11,000 more staff working in our NHS...
:31:18. > :31:22.Hang on, let's not do a list of what you think is good. Could you explain
:31:23. > :31:28.why there are low targets in place to benchmarks the integration of
:31:29. > :31:32.social care with the NHS? And no budget in place?
:31:33. > :31:37.Overall budgeting is increasing in the NHS. We know that but that isn't
:31:38. > :31:43.the question. That is exactly where we are at. The
:31:44. > :31:47.overall health budget has been increased by ?2 billion. There is an
:31:48. > :31:50.extra ?500 million going into primary care, which will address
:31:51. > :31:54.some of these points specifically. Why would you address the specific
:31:55. > :31:59.question, which you know is a different question than the one you
:32:00. > :32:03.are answering. Why are there are no plans in place to benchmark whether
:32:04. > :32:08.or not you are achieving the integration of health and social
:32:09. > :32:12.care and why is it the Scottish Government, according to Audit
:32:13. > :32:14.Scotland, does not know how much it'll cost?
:32:15. > :32:21.You have heard the in response to the report from the Health Secretary
:32:22. > :32:26.in the Jones just specified. In terms of the benchmarking, that is
:32:27. > :32:33.something I don't have a specific answer on just now and I'm not going
:32:34. > :32:38.to pretend that I do. The more general points I am making are all
:32:39. > :32:43.completely relevant to this integration of health and social
:32:44. > :32:47.care. Increased spending, more staff and a focus towards preventative
:32:48. > :32:56.spending, where we are investing in GP practices and training places.
:32:57. > :33:00.Mark Griffin, I presume you are going to say you are not happy with
:33:01. > :33:04.the government response but I would say Labour is just as guilty. One of
:33:05. > :33:09.the points that the Audit Scotland report makes is the integration of
:33:10. > :33:13.health and Social Care Act creates the SNP government. There was talk
:33:14. > :33:19.about it under the Liberal and Labour coalition. Under them it was
:33:20. > :33:23.just as much waffle as it is now. I think the points you made has been
:33:24. > :33:26.made well, there is no benchmark from the government as to how they
:33:27. > :33:30.are going to measure any level of success and I think the reason
:33:31. > :33:37.behind that is local government budgets have been cut to the bone.
:33:38. > :33:41.On one side, there is local government services people rely on
:33:42. > :33:45.and they are being cut to the bone. It is clear...
:33:46. > :33:50.I'm not sure what the connection is. I accept your point about cutting
:33:51. > :33:54.budgets but I can't understand why you can't have benchmarks and that
:33:55. > :33:57.was the problem and Labour as well. There was glad he is talk about
:33:58. > :34:00.doing things and nobody ever says, this is how you're going to know
:34:01. > :34:06.whether or not we've done it. I think that's the point, the reason
:34:07. > :34:10.the government is running away from benchmarking is they know the
:34:11. > :34:14.targets because of the disastrous impact the cuts are going to have on
:34:15. > :34:21.local government. Ross Greer, I've done it again! I
:34:22. > :34:27.keep calling you Scott! And a Tory! There is another side to this, Ross
:34:28. > :34:31.Greer, behind all the jokes about benchmarks, and we heard Shona
:34:32. > :34:37.Robison talking about this, there are tough choices here because it is
:34:38. > :34:42.politically unpopular to... If you're going to revamp, you need to
:34:43. > :34:46.close acute unit and put money into the community to achieve integration
:34:47. > :34:51.and every time anyone proposes a specific thing about cutting a
:34:52. > :34:53.hospital or a unit in a hospital, all hell breaks loose and there is
:34:54. > :34:58.public opposition. I think you've created a false
:34:59. > :35:03.choice as an either or situation. If we want to increase spending on
:35:04. > :35:07.prevention and care in the community or whatever it might be we can make
:35:08. > :35:10.the choice is to raise the money needed to spend on that rather than
:35:11. > :35:16.spend somewhere else, maybe to close a hospital like children's services
:35:17. > :35:20.in Paisley. The whole point about integrating
:35:21. > :35:23.Health and Social Care Act was partly because it benefited patients
:35:24. > :35:27.because people preferred to live at home. Also it was an efficiency
:35:28. > :35:32.saving and you would save huge amounts of money by stopping what
:35:33. > :35:35.they call bed blocking in hospital. It is a question of money as well.
:35:36. > :35:40.You can't just say let's bend ever more money on it.
:35:41. > :35:47.I think you are creating a false choice, saying we can all either
:35:48. > :35:53.spend on one thing all the other. It is possible for proposals made by...
:35:54. > :35:58.Proposed to the government about losing departments or hospitals
:35:59. > :36:02.might be bad ideas. We have seen quite a view exceptionally bad
:36:03. > :36:05.proposals for cutting services across hospitals in the West of
:36:06. > :36:10.Scotland. The idea to create successful the health and social
:36:11. > :36:12.care integration, you have to close hospital departments, it seems
:36:13. > :36:17.bizarre. I wonder if you agree, Mark Griffin.
:36:18. > :36:20.Proposals to close hospital departments to achieve precisely the
:36:21. > :36:25.goals the SNP government wants to achieve was one of the reasons
:36:26. > :36:30.Labour lost the 2007 election. The SNP were elected on the basis of
:36:31. > :36:36.promises to keep the service is open. You can keep a parallel with
:36:37. > :36:43.the election there it. You had other local SNP candidates promising to
:36:44. > :36:47.keep services open and now the Health Secretary is saying no, we
:36:48. > :36:50.have to wait and see what different people are saying. It didn't stop
:36:51. > :36:55.them saying they would keep them open before the election. What has
:36:56. > :37:00.changed? Oliver, you would back closing some
:37:01. > :37:05.of these facilities, would you? Know. I think it's about reducing
:37:06. > :37:10.the pressure on those facilities by following our idea of putting more
:37:11. > :37:13.money into primary care, making sure that people can get treatment at the
:37:14. > :37:18.pharmacy. The whole point about integration
:37:19. > :37:25.was that you save the money to put into the primary care that you are
:37:26. > :37:28.talking about by closing some acute facilities or rationalising acute
:37:29. > :37:31.care because if you get your increased money in primary care
:37:32. > :37:36.there should be less demand for acute care.
:37:37. > :37:39.Exactly. You have to invest in primary care first, reducing the
:37:40. > :37:43.burden before... You can't remove acute services when there is still a
:37:44. > :37:48.very high demand for them. That is why we have seen a lack of vision
:37:49. > :37:53.and strategy and a lack of long-term preparation. We are facing the same
:37:54. > :37:56.issues in the NHS now as we did when Nicola Sturgeon with the health
:37:57. > :38:01.minister. We have not taken any steps to actually start investing in
:38:02. > :38:06.the areas of health that can actually help make savings further
:38:07. > :38:15.down the line. Then, in Shona Robison 's speech she
:38:16. > :38:17.went through a number of specific proposals for rationalising
:38:18. > :38:20.different units at different hospitals and she kept emphasising
:38:21. > :38:29.the final decision would be taken by her. What was your interpretation of
:38:30. > :38:32.that? Was it really about politics and she may block rationalisations
:38:33. > :38:37.even if the health board so they can go ahead?
:38:38. > :38:44.I think the one that is most useful for me to speak on is one I've been
:38:45. > :38:47.involved in myself, to do with cleft surgery in Edinburgh. There were
:38:48. > :38:52.many concerns raised with constituents directly and with other
:38:53. > :38:59.MSPs and as a consequence of that and also through consideration of
:39:00. > :39:02.how to deliver the best service for that particular treatment, the
:39:03. > :39:09.Health Secretary is looking very carefully at that service and how
:39:10. > :39:11.best to deliver the sort of specialist treatment that is
:39:12. > :39:16.required. There is a real sense around how do we consider giving
:39:17. > :39:24.them the best possible treatment with the specialisms that are there.
:39:25. > :39:26.That is an example of where the Health Secretary is thinking very
:39:27. > :39:31.carefully. Do you think we all have to think in
:39:32. > :39:34.a broader way about this so we might have to accept that if we are going
:39:35. > :39:40.to have more care in the community and we are going to be able to stay
:39:41. > :39:45.at home as we get older instead of Hospital, in the meantime we might
:39:46. > :39:49.have to travel further to a specialised centre for some of these
:39:50. > :39:53.other things? That is a trade-off. And in fact we might get better
:39:54. > :39:58.treatment by travelling. That is the ethos of the clinical
:39:59. > :40:03.strategy but as I articulated in my last dancer there are technicalities
:40:04. > :40:06.dot in the context of an ageing population and increasing demand on
:40:07. > :40:12.the health service we have to remember the Scottish NHS and
:40:13. > :40:17.economy in general is performing well compared to the rest of the UK
:40:18. > :40:21.and the challenges that face us in this area are international
:40:22. > :40:27.challenges. I have a close family member who is a geriatric physician
:40:28. > :40:32.so I understand how challenging these areas are. We have to bear in
:40:33. > :40:35.mind the specific investment the government has made, including the
:40:36. > :40:38.elective treatment centres which will bring in treatment to the
:40:39. > :40:43.community. Thank you all very much. I should
:40:44. > :40:47.stress that Ross Greer is called Roche clear and he is a member of
:40:48. > :40:53.the Green party, not 70s. That is right, isn't it? That sounds
:40:54. > :40:57.One of Scotland's biggest energy providers says onshore wind
:40:58. > :40:59.development will come to a standstill if the UK Government
:41:00. > :41:03.The Conservatives made a general election pledge to end
:41:04. > :41:07.But Scottish Power says it needs to create a new framework
:41:08. > :41:09.for when those subsidies are withdrawn in March.
:41:10. > :41:13.Our environment correspondent, Kevin Keane, reports.
:41:14. > :41:19.It is a Windrush and from the outcome of the scale of these
:41:20. > :41:23.construction work is clear. This is one of eight wind farm projects
:41:24. > :41:27.being undertaken by ScottishPower Alan. To qualify for subsidies, they
:41:28. > :41:32.have to be running by the end of March. What happens to this industry
:41:33. > :41:35.then is unclear. The industry will come to a
:41:36. > :41:40.standstill. It is impossible for us to move forward without some kind of
:41:41. > :41:44.framework and mechanism to work with the government to allow activity
:41:45. > :41:49.like this to carry on. On the ground, thousands are being
:41:50. > :41:53.employed in the construction phase. The industry says there is more
:41:54. > :41:56.potential for an shore wind in Scotland and jobs. The UK Government
:41:57. > :42:00.is committed to ending subsidies with no alternative framework being
:42:01. > :42:05.proposed. Campaigners say that is the right
:42:06. > :42:09.position. It is saturated. Talk to people surrounded by wind farms and
:42:10. > :42:13.they think we have got enough. We are already producing too much wind
:42:14. > :42:18.electricity in Scotland for us to be able to move ourselves so it is
:42:19. > :42:22.either being exported or it is being constrained off.
:42:23. > :42:26.The UK Government says its focus is on offshore wind, which will be
:42:27. > :42:30.subsidised. Renewable firms think Scotland is being let down.
:42:31. > :42:35.The UK Government has locked it out the energy market. Our own advisers
:42:36. > :42:39.say if we have any chance of meeting climate change targets we need to at
:42:40. > :42:43.least double our renewable energy capacity so it is vital the UK
:42:44. > :42:48.Government tells us what the future of onshore wind is going to be and
:42:49. > :42:51.it will allow it to compete. The race is now on to get all of
:42:52. > :42:54.these wind farms finished before the deadline at the end of March. What
:42:55. > :43:04.happens after that is up in the air. That was our environment
:43:05. > :43:08.correspondent reporting, or shouting. No two prime ministers
:43:09. > :43:11.questions, where Theresa May has described football 's world
:43:12. > :43:15.governing body is utterly outrageous for banning English and Scottish
:43:16. > :43:19.footballers from wearing poppies during their qualifying match on
:43:20. > :43:24.Armistice Day. The beginning of the session was dominated by exchanges
:43:25. > :43:28.about the welfare system. According to Sheffield Hallam
:43:29. > :43:33.University study, one in five claimants that are being sanctioned
:43:34. > :43:38.became homeless as a result of it. Many of those included families with
:43:39. > :43:41.children. Mr Speaker, could I recommend the Prime Minister
:43:42. > :43:47.supports British cinema? And takes herself along to the cinema to see a
:43:48. > :43:53.prize-winning film I, Daniel Blake. And as she is doing so, can she take
:43:54. > :43:57.the Work and Pensions Secretary with her because he described the film as
:43:58. > :44:02.monstrously unfair and then admitted he had never seen it. He has
:44:03. > :44:06.obviously got a very fair sense of judgment on this. I will tell the
:44:07. > :44:09.premise to what is unfair, ex-servicemen like David Katz and
:44:10. > :44:16.dying without food in its home due to the government's sanctions
:44:17. > :44:22.regime. It is time that we ended this institutionalised barbarity
:44:23. > :44:26.against very vulnerable people. I have to say to the right
:44:27. > :44:30.honourable gentleman that of course it is important that in our welfare
:44:31. > :44:34.system we ensure that those who need the support the state is giving them
:44:35. > :44:39.through the benefits system are able to access that. It is also important
:44:40. > :44:43.in our system that those who are paying for it feel that the system
:44:44. > :44:48.is fair to them as well. That is right, that is why we need to have
:44:49. > :44:55.work capability assessments and sanctions in our system. Scottish
:44:56. > :45:00.Limited partnerships were established by this house in 1907
:45:01. > :45:03.and they are being aggressively marketed internationally, especially
:45:04. > :45:08.in Eastern Europe. The International monetary Fund has warned that the
:45:09. > :45:15.fight against global money-laundering and organised
:45:16. > :45:19.crime. It is now a a matter of public record that they have been
:45:20. > :45:24.friends for websites peddling child abuse images and part of major
:45:25. > :45:31.corruption cases in Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Latvia, Moldova and
:45:32. > :45:35.include the arms industry. Given the seriousness of this issue, the Prime
:45:36. > :45:40.Minister's commitment to deal with criminality but the lack of progress
:45:41. > :45:42.on SLPs, will she agreed to meet with me to agree a joint way
:45:43. > :45:49.forward? The right honourable gentleman
:45:50. > :45:52.raises issues around criminality and investigations into criminal
:45:53. > :46:00.activity that's taking place and he talks about the issue of websites
:46:01. > :46:04.peddling child exploitation. It is in order to increase our ability to
:46:05. > :46:06.deal with this criminal activity that we've created the National
:46:07. > :46:10.Crime Agency, that we've been working on other issues with the
:46:11. > :46:16.City like money laundering and we are looking at the whole question of
:46:17. > :46:21.how we can ensure that we are taking effective action on criminal
:46:22. > :46:26.activity. This Government's record on immigration detention is
:46:27. > :46:35.disgraceful, with the UK being the only country in EU with no time
:46:36. > :46:39.limit on detention. The people of Renfrewshire want no part of these
:46:40. > :46:43.practices. Will she give us an opportunity to rethink the detention
:46:44. > :46:47.policy and end this stain on our human rights record? It is important
:46:48. > :46:52.that where there are people who are due to be removed from this country
:46:53. > :46:54.and the prospect is that they could be lost to the system if they are
:46:55. > :46:58.not detained, there are circumstances in which it's the
:46:59. > :47:02.right to detain people in the immigration estate. We need to make
:47:03. > :47:09.sure we have got that estate right. A lot of work has been done on this.
:47:10. > :47:14.The fundamental point is, I suspect he doesn't think we should detain
:47:15. > :47:19.anybody in relation to immigration enforce: We believe there are some
:47:20. > :47:27.who are rightly detained before being removed from this country. Has
:47:28. > :47:32.the Prime Minister spotted the ludicrous refusal to Fifa to allow
:47:33. > :47:37.footballers to wear poppies. Will she tell them that in this country
:47:38. > :47:44.we decide when to wear poppies and we'll be bearing them at Wembley? I
:47:45. > :47:49.think the stance that's been taken by Fifa is utterly outrageous. Our
:47:50. > :47:53.football players want to recognise and respect those who are given
:47:54. > :47:57.their lives for our safety and security. I think it is absolutely
:47:58. > :48:01.right that they should be able to do so. Our footballers, it is for our
:48:02. > :48:05.Football Associations but a clear message is going from this House. We
:48:06. > :48:09.want our players to be able to wear those poppies. I have to say to
:48:10. > :48:16.Fifa, before they start telling us what to do, they jolly well ought to
:48:17. > :48:21.sort their own house out. Now, the sun shine downs on David Porter at
:48:22. > :48:23.Westminster. He has some MPs with him. I have indeed, MPs and two
:48:24. > :48:47.members of the House of Lords. We finished PMQ there is on the
:48:48. > :48:51.issue of poppies. Can you understand how Fifa have got themselves into
:48:52. > :48:55.this situation? I think that they have got themselves slightly out of
:48:56. > :49:01.step here. I'm not convinced that this is what people want to see. I
:49:02. > :49:04.think the SFA and the FA have made clear Thames it is in their view a
:49:05. > :49:08.sensible idea that people should have the choice. I would support
:49:09. > :49:15.these perspectives. Our football players should have the choice to
:49:16. > :49:20.wear a poppy if they want to. Many will want to remember those who died
:49:21. > :49:24.in the war and I back them. They are arguing that they cannot support
:49:25. > :49:29.political or religious emblems. That steams be their argument in this
:49:30. > :49:34.case. I'm perplexed by their argument. This is a match between
:49:35. > :49:38.Scotland and England, a UK match. Poppies are a tradition of this
:49:39. > :49:42.country. It is has British game of football. If you are having Scotland
:49:43. > :49:46.or England versus a European country I could see a slight argument,
:49:47. > :49:51.although I disagree. I cannot see any arguments when it's Scotland
:49:52. > :49:55.versus England. George Foulkes, you are well known for your love of the
:49:56. > :49:59.game of football. Yes. Is it a case that if Fifa don't change their mind
:50:00. > :50:05.that Scotland and England, the FA ought to say if you want to wear
:50:06. > :50:10.poppies do it and face the consequences? For once surprisingly
:50:11. > :50:15.I agree with the Prime Minister. It is outrageous of Fifa to do this.
:50:16. > :50:19.Heart, irrespective of Fifa, will be wearing poppies on their shirts. I
:50:20. > :50:24.brought along, remember the battle of the Somme, 1916 to 2016. We've
:50:25. > :50:27.done it every year in November. Fifa have said nothing about it. And we
:50:28. > :50:32.are doing it against this year. Scotland and England should do the
:50:33. > :50:37.same and give two fingers to Fifa. I think there is going to be
:50:38. > :50:40.(Inaudible) on this subject. I I imagine you agree with what your
:50:41. > :50:44.colleagues have been saying. I agree strongly. Fifa is an organisation
:50:45. > :50:48.that is trying to restore its reputation. All it is doing is
:50:49. > :50:53.bringing itself into further disrepute. I hope that a way can be
:50:54. > :50:57.found for every play who wants to wear the poppy, and I hope there'll
:50:58. > :51:01.be a big reaction from the crowd in the match and every member of the
:51:02. > :51:05.crowd is wear argue poppy. And something is done to symbolise their
:51:06. > :51:09.disgust with what Fifa are doing here. People are angry about this.
:51:10. > :51:15.That match takes place in just over a week. In exactly a week's time, we
:51:16. > :51:19.will probably know who the next President of the United States is
:51:20. > :51:24.going to be. I don't think I'm going to be surprised if I suggest to you
:51:25. > :51:30.that you will not be hoping that it is one Donald Trump? Again, there
:51:31. > :51:35.might be unanimity here. I would be surprised if there were too many
:51:36. > :51:38.British politicians looking forward to a Trump presidency. It is getting
:51:39. > :51:43.closer. There is no doubt it is getting too tight... Do you honestly
:51:44. > :51:50.believe he can win? From the articles I'm reading, there is one
:51:51. > :51:54.reputable website that's got the result called correct in the last
:51:55. > :52:00.several elections and they are putting Hillary as over 80% likely.
:52:01. > :52:06.Today she has dropped to just over 70% likely to win. This is a pass
:52:07. > :52:10.for Trump to win. For me that is genuinely scary. I hope it doesn't
:52:11. > :52:14.happen, but I worry it is a bit like Brexit. It's a bit like the opinion
:52:15. > :52:17.polls that he had for the Conservative Party when they
:52:18. > :52:19.surprisingly pushed up their vote in the actual election higher than they
:52:20. > :52:24.were polling. I think there are a lot of people in the United States
:52:25. > :52:28.who won't admit to be supporting Trump but may yet go out and vote
:52:29. > :52:32.for him. Anything could happen over the next few hours. It is going to
:52:33. > :52:36.be tighter than many people in this country would wish I would think.
:52:37. > :52:39.George Foulkes circuits something that should concern us in Britain
:52:40. > :52:42.how the Americans vote? Very much, so the President of the United
:52:43. > :52:47.States is the most powerful person in the world, holding a huge amount
:52:48. > :52:51.of power in his or her hands. I'll make a prediction, David. I predict
:52:52. > :52:57.that Hillary Clinton will win and we have to pray that I'm right, because
:52:58. > :53:01.it would be cast fer Trump got. In Hillary is a states person, whatever
:53:02. > :53:04.criticisms there may be of her. She has proved herself as an
:53:05. > :53:10.international states person. It is about time we had a woman President.
:53:11. > :53:14.Indeed John Stevenson there is an argument for saying if the Americans
:53:15. > :53:18.vote for Hillary Clinton they are merely catching one the United
:53:19. > :53:21.Kingdom. They are merely catching one Scotland, where the top
:53:22. > :53:24.politician is a woman? I think there's some British political
:53:25. > :53:29.parties who have to catch one the Conservative Party and indeed the
:53:30. > :53:33.SNP... We have in Scotland. Yes, you are still catching up. In American
:53:34. > :53:36.terms I think it'd be significant if Hillary Clinton were elected as the
:53:37. > :53:42.first female President of the United States. I think it'd be a good thing
:53:43. > :53:45.for America. I think we are all pretty united about how we would
:53:46. > :53:48.like to result to go next week. It is in the interests of the world and
:53:49. > :53:52.the West we have Hillary Clinton as our President. That would get rid of
:53:53. > :53:57.a degree of uncertainty that's out there. This is a period of time when
:53:58. > :54:01.we do need certainty, a safe pair of hands, and I think Hillary Clinton
:54:02. > :54:04.is that safe pair of hands. I don't think will be surprised by your
:54:05. > :54:08.answer. Presumably you would be aghast if you thought that Donald
:54:09. > :54:13.Trump was going to win? I certainly hope that Donald Trump does not win.
:54:14. > :54:18.My view is that I stand for pretty much the opposite of what Donald
:54:19. > :54:23.Trump stand for on every issue I can think of. His statements have been
:54:24. > :54:26.regressive. They've been offensive. Derogatory to different minority
:54:27. > :54:29.groups and to will. I can't think notice the interests of America to
:54:30. > :54:33.elect a President with these kind of views. So I would hope that you're
:54:34. > :54:38.right with your prediction and I hope we'll see Hillary Clinton win.
:54:39. > :54:44.A quick question to each of you. Trump or Clinton, who is going to
:54:45. > :54:50.win? Clinton. Clinton. I have already said Clinton. I very much
:54:51. > :54:53.hope it is going to be Clinton but the markets are getting nervous.
:54:54. > :54:56.We'll have to wait until the great voters of the United States make
:54:57. > :55:05.their decision next week. Thank you very much. You know what, Gordon, I
:55:06. > :55:10.think this is probably the first time I have ever done this interview
:55:11. > :55:14.where they've all been agreeing. I think it says more about the
:55:15. > :55:20.subjects that we've been discussing this afternoon. And who says that
:55:21. > :55:25.politics is all about yah-boo? That it is all about knock-about. They
:55:26. > :55:29.are still talking while I'm talking. If we can train them to be quiet
:55:30. > :55:32.when I'm talks we might be making progress.
:55:33. > :55:38.STUDIO: They've agree on everything from now on. I forecast it. That
:55:39. > :55:40.could make life different or a bit boring. Hopefully next time we talk,
:55:41. > :55:53.they'll fight. Thank you David. According to Andrew Kerr at the
:55:54. > :55:58.beginning of the programme, he said he nis the SNP will lose two votes.
:55:59. > :56:04.One on the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act and one on the health
:56:05. > :56:10.service. Is that, has that happened before? It is quite feesable that
:56:11. > :56:13.that will happen. The SNP lost their majority in the May Holyrood
:56:14. > :56:17.election. There've been one or two defeats but we haven't seen any
:56:18. > :56:20.great turbulence for them, but I think it is going to come. On the
:56:21. > :56:26.Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, the politics are interesting. This
:56:27. > :56:32.is symbolic, the vote this afternoon, but there'll, James
:56:33. > :56:37.Kelly, the Labour MSP, is bringing a members bill to repeal. That will go
:56:38. > :56:40.through the process and if they vote the way they think, Labour, the
:56:41. > :56:45.Conservatives, Lib Dems and the Greens supporting the move to repeal
:56:46. > :56:51.it, the SNP will lose and the bill will fall. What's been quite strange
:56:52. > :56:57.is the SNP's response to this has been very, very muted. They haven't
:56:58. > :57:01.moved on it at all. It is an Act that's been criticised by
:57:02. > :57:05.campaigners. It has been publicly criticised by Celtic Football Club.
:57:06. > :57:08.Fans believe they are being criminalised and the Scottish
:57:09. > :57:13.Government is insisting that it is the right legislation and they are
:57:14. > :57:17.going to stick with it despite the opposition parties uniting to have
:57:18. > :57:23.it done away with. Some people are said to me, some time ago now, in
:57:24. > :57:27.England the clubs take liability in a way that doesn't happen in
:57:28. > :57:31.Scotland, and the idea is if you kind truce a similar system in
:57:32. > :57:36.Scotland, they could afford to get rid of the Act, because the need for
:57:37. > :57:39.white go away? That's one of the problems that the Labour Party have
:57:40. > :57:42.with the politics of this. They are taking a very strong line. They are
:57:43. > :57:46.on the front foot. They feel they have something they can hurt the SNP
:57:47. > :57:52.with on this, on the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, but they
:57:53. > :57:56.have shied away with back strict liability, something the sectarian
:57:57. > :58:00.charity nil by mouth want introduced. Football clubs are
:58:01. > :58:04.reluctant to see that introduced as they could lose points or be fined
:58:05. > :58:11.depending on the behaviour of their fans. If Labour are just repealing
:58:12. > :58:18.this but don't have any solution to the sec turn problem, that doesn't
:58:19. > :58:21.look good for the Labour party. I'm interested to see what solutions
:58:22. > :58:25.they offer rather than say, get rid of this Act. And in the bigger
:58:26. > :58:32.picture the NHS is more important than that, but in the narrow
:58:33. > :58:37.picture, losing a vote on it is less significant, because it is all the
:58:38. > :58:41.more vague, not as if a specific policy has to go? Yes, it is the
:58:42. > :58:46.Parliament and the opposition pleaters be expressing a general
:58:47. > :58:47.disenchantment with the Government's pursuits.
:58:48. > :58:49.Join us for First Minister's Questions tomorrow on BBC
:58:50. > :58:53.You can follow the outcome of the debate about the Offensive
:58:54. > :58:56.Behaviour at Football Act on the BBC's Democracy Live page.