0:00:20 > 0:00:24Hello and a warm welcome to the garden lobby at the Scottish
0:00:24 > 0:00:29Parliament, where the sit and chat is about the resignation of Michael
0:00:29 > 0:00:33Fallon as the Defence Secretary and his replacement in the UK Government
0:00:33 > 0:00:38but the discourse is about this, the policy paper published today by the
0:00:38 > 0:00:43Scottish Government, setting out four options or possible tax
0:00:43 > 0:00:48increases, spreading across the middle and higher earners. I reckon
0:00:48 > 0:00:51that'll come up in First Minister's Questions but let's find out by
0:00:51 > 0:00:57crossing to my colleague.Thank you, Brian. General questions still
0:00:57 > 0:01:02ongoing, giving us a chance to think about that document, the finance
0:01:02 > 0:01:07secretary will have to get support from it, a proposal to get tax
0:01:07 > 0:01:10reforms through Parliament. The ministers said they want to avoid
0:01:10 > 0:01:17the poorer earners to pay more, they also raised concerned about raising
0:01:17 > 0:01:21tax only on highest earners, that it could result in a loss of revenue.
0:01:21 > 0:01:28Good we look at what income tax and is? Here is the reaction.Yesterday,
0:01:28 > 0:01:33the UK Parliament unanimously voted to release 58 sectoral papers on
0:01:33 > 0:01:43Brexit...Moral debates on Brexit on Labour's Neal Findlay. -- or
0:01:43 > 0:01:48debates. The position considered in this paper is to consider more
0:01:48 > 0:01:56taxation bans, with the aim of increasing revenue to fund public
0:01:56 > 0:02:02spending and services while at the same time, spreading the burden of
0:02:02 > 0:02:06that tax across a wider number of earners, in particular of avoiding
0:02:06 > 0:02:18hitting the poorest earners. That's a priority that the First Minister.
0:02:18 > 0:02:23We believe, expect that the Conservatives would use today's
0:02:23 > 0:02:29First Minister's Questions as an opportunity to attack the
0:02:29 > 0:02:34government's approach on tax, we know they do not support the idea of
0:02:34 > 0:02:37April in Scotland paying higher income tax than voters and taxpayers
0:02:37 > 0:02:42elsewhere in the United Kingdom. Therefore, the finance secretary and
0:02:42 > 0:02:46First Minister will look to the other parties for support, those
0:02:46 > 0:02:51that are open to the principle perhaps of putting taxes up to pay
0:02:51 > 0:02:58for public services. Labour, Liberal Democrats and the Greens. We will
0:02:58 > 0:03:02hear from those parties this afternoon, here at First Minister's
0:03:02 > 0:03:07Questions, we will also have heard from Mr Mackay, with the issue of
0:03:07 > 0:03:12tax, which will begin immediately as soon as this session comes to a
0:03:12 > 0:03:18close.Now we move on to First Minister's Questions. Before I do
0:03:18 > 0:03:24call Ruth Davidson from the Conservative Party, I am advised
0:03:24 > 0:03:30that Alex Rowley is unable to attend, therefore I will call Jackie
0:03:30 > 0:03:33Baillie to call questions on behalf of Labour. Question number one, Ruth
0:03:33 > 0:03:39Davidson.Thank you, I welcome today the publication of the Scottish
0:03:39 > 0:03:43Government paper on tax, we will take time to study in detail, and
0:03:43 > 0:03:48are happy to engage on it as the government has requested. To raise
0:03:48 > 0:03:51initial questions, in it the First Minister claims the health of the
0:03:51 > 0:03:56economy will be front and centre of any tax changes she makes. Can I ask
0:03:56 > 0:04:02her, will she grant the request made by economists and trade bodies, to
0:04:02 > 0:04:06conduct a full, independent and that the economic assessment of any tax
0:04:06 > 0:04:11changes before they are undertaken? Well, we will consider any
0:04:11 > 0:04:15reasonable request made in the context of the discussions that we
0:04:15 > 0:04:20will have following the publication of today's paper. But of course, it
0:04:20 > 0:04:24is incumbent on the government generally to put forward proposals
0:04:24 > 0:04:28we consider to be in the best interests of the country as a whole.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32The most important aspect of the paper we have published today in my
0:04:32 > 0:04:37view are the four key tests that should guide our decision-making. We
0:04:37 > 0:04:40should make sure we protect the ability of this Parliament to fund
0:04:40 > 0:04:46our public services, to protect those on the lowest incomes, we need
0:04:46 > 0:04:53to make the tax system affair and tackle inequality, and of course,
0:04:53 > 0:04:56make sure the interests of our economy are at the heart of all our
0:04:56 > 0:05:01decisions. One of the things I said this morning and I genuinely think
0:05:01 > 0:05:05all of us in Parliament should embrace this, often debates on tax
0:05:05 > 0:05:10are seen as the interests of the economy on the one hand versus the
0:05:10 > 0:05:13interest of public services on the other, I think it is the wrong way
0:05:13 > 0:05:17to look at it. Our taxes pay for the infrastructure our economy needs,
0:05:17 > 0:05:22the additional support for entrepreneurs that I announced
0:05:22 > 0:05:24yesterday, paying for the small-business bonuses which removes
0:05:24 > 0:05:29small businesses from the burden of his missa rates. We need to look at
0:05:29 > 0:05:33this from the point of view of what country we want to be, the economy
0:05:33 > 0:05:40we want to have an society we want -- of business rates. I say this in
0:05:40 > 0:05:45an open discussion, I hope Conservatives would reflect on the
0:05:45 > 0:05:48fact their policy which has been analysed in this paper along with
0:05:48 > 0:05:53policies from our manifest as last year and all of our parties. The
0:05:53 > 0:05:57Conservative proposal would reduce public spending in Scotland by £140
0:05:57 > 0:06:02million. Given Ruth Davidson regularly asks me to increase public
0:06:02 > 0:06:06spending on a range of issues, I think it's something the Tories have
0:06:06 > 0:06:13to seriously reflect upon.Ruth Davidson.There was a reason,
0:06:13 > 0:06:16presiding officer, I asked specifically about the economic
0:06:16 > 0:06:19assessment economists and trade bodies want, and that is because it
0:06:19 > 0:06:24hasn't probably been understood that under a new deal between the UK and
0:06:24 > 0:06:27Scottish governments, if the Scottish economy grows more quickly
0:06:27 > 0:06:31than the UK, the additional revenues will flow directly to Holyrood,
0:06:31 > 0:06:36where as if it grows more slowly, revenue will drop. So, we all need
0:06:36 > 0:06:40to know if a tax rise will slow down growth in Scotland and paste to the
0:06:40 > 0:06:48rest of the UK. Now... Job creators, retailers and industry figures have
0:06:48 > 0:06:53stated their believe this will happen if taxes rise, so how does
0:06:53 > 0:06:57the First Minister answer their concerns?Well, their concerns will
0:06:57 > 0:07:01be answered in a round of decisions we take. As I said clearly, those
0:07:01 > 0:07:07decisions in the interest of the public services and lowest in our
0:07:07 > 0:07:11society and the economy at heart, is about balancing the responsible and
0:07:11 > 0:07:16progressive decisions that are the objective of this government. Ruth
0:07:16 > 0:07:19Davidson should be aware the Scottish fiscal commission has the
0:07:19 > 0:07:23statutory responsibility to the forecasts the Budget is going to be
0:07:23 > 0:07:27based upon. We have had the office of the Chief economists carry out
0:07:27 > 0:07:32the analysis in this paper but the analysis for this Budget will be
0:07:32 > 0:07:35done by the fiscal commission which will take on board a range of
0:07:35 > 0:07:39factors. Final points, firstly in terms of Ruth Davidson's points
0:07:39 > 0:07:46about tax generally, one of the points I made this morning and I see
0:07:46 > 0:07:50a think tank said this earlier, it would be better for Scotland if we
0:07:50 > 0:07:55had a wider range of tax powers at our disposal. It's not an ideal
0:07:55 > 0:08:00position to be into have income tax to look at but that is our position,
0:08:00 > 0:08:03therefore we have to take balanced, progressive decisions on the basis
0:08:03 > 0:08:07of that. But finally, the competitiveness and attractiveness
0:08:07 > 0:08:14of our economy is not just about our tax rates, important though that is,
0:08:14 > 0:08:18but the quality of our public services, the skills of our
0:08:18 > 0:08:22population, the infrastructure we have is a country can't right now,
0:08:22 > 0:08:25Scotland has the highest quality public service provision anywhere in
0:08:25 > 0:08:29the UK, the most generous social contract anywhere in the UK, and
0:08:29 > 0:08:35taking account of any of the potential options in the tax paper
0:08:35 > 0:08:38we've published today, Scotland will remain the most cost-effective place
0:08:38 > 0:08:44to be in the UK. I think that is a great position to be in but because
0:08:44 > 0:08:49of Brexit, austerity and policies opposed by Ruth Davidson's party, we
0:08:49 > 0:08:53have to ask ourselves how to protect all that matters to us as a country
0:08:53 > 0:08:55and that will drive the decisions this government takes.Ruth
0:08:55 > 0:09:01Davidson.Well, there is another principle I hope these Scottish
0:09:01 > 0:09:03Government would follow that they haven't mentioned so far and that's
0:09:03 > 0:09:09simplicity. Because the phrase of Ireland Institute has made clear a
0:09:09 > 0:09:13strong argument for keeping the tax system as straightforward and
0:09:13 > 0:09:19transparent as possible -- the Fraser Valent Institute. One of the
0:09:19 > 0:09:24proposals put forward this morning suggest as many as six tax bans,
0:09:24 > 0:09:28will the First Minister take heed warnings that a more complex tax
0:09:28 > 0:09:30system could create unintended consequences which detrimentally
0:09:30 > 0:09:36impact of the money raised?First Minister.There is an irony behind
0:09:36 > 0:09:40that question because I think it is commonly accepted the UK right now
0:09:40 > 0:09:46is the most complex tax system anywhere in the world! And of
0:09:46 > 0:09:51course, much of what lies behind that, even with income tax, remains
0:09:51 > 0:09:55out with the power and responsibility of this Parliament.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58Looking at the proposals which are in the paper for discussion to
0:09:58 > 0:10:02illustrate the options open to us, some of them do propose a greater
0:10:02 > 0:10:08number of tax bans, one of the things commented on in the paper is
0:10:08 > 0:10:12by international standards, that number, even the highest in these
0:10:12 > 0:10:16options today which would be six tax Theresa May too, would not be
0:10:16 > 0:10:24unusual in an international context. -- six taxation bands. Often in this
0:10:24 > 0:10:27system, the more bands there are, the more progressive the taxation
0:10:27 > 0:10:32system is overall cost it allows tax to be more acutely aligned to the
0:10:32 > 0:10:37ability to pay now. I know progressive tax and relating it to
0:10:37 > 0:10:40the ability to pay is not close to the heart of the Conservatives but
0:10:40 > 0:10:44it is close to the heart of this government. Coming back to the
0:10:44 > 0:10:49central point here, presiding officer, we have good quality public
0:10:49 > 0:10:56services, albeit with challenges. We have a good social contract, good
0:10:56 > 0:10:58support from business and infrastructure, but we face further
0:10:58 > 0:11:03austerity from the Tories, the impact of Brexit and an ageing
0:11:03 > 0:11:07population. So, if we want to protect the society and economy we
0:11:07 > 0:11:13want to have, these discussions are vital. And that's why the point I
0:11:13 > 0:11:18posed earlier onto Ruth Davidson is important. The Tories' proposal
0:11:18 > 0:11:24analysed in this paper is to give a tax cut to the top 10% of earners in
0:11:24 > 0:11:29the country, which would take £140 million out of the Scottish Budget.
0:11:29 > 0:11:34Ruth Davidson and the Conservatives, before they go any further in this
0:11:34 > 0:11:37tax debate, have to explain how they would pay for that and who would
0:11:37 > 0:11:44bear the burden for that.Ruth Davidson.Presiding Officer, despite
0:11:44 > 0:11:46the attempted discussions, the reasons that we support...LAUGHTER
0:11:46 > 0:11:52.The reasons we support a competitive tax regime is we believe
0:11:52 > 0:11:55that would develop the Scottish economy, boosting the income tax
0:11:55 > 0:12:00that we need for our schools and hospitals. And we don't think it's
0:12:00 > 0:12:03right any Scott earning more than £24,000 should have to pay more
0:12:03 > 0:12:08because the bottom line here is about getting growth and we are
0:12:08 > 0:12:11lagging behind. The Scottish economy is currently growing at a third of
0:12:11 > 0:12:15the rate of the United Kingdom. And when we look to the Scottish
0:12:15 > 0:12:20Government this week, we look to a £500 billion growth scheme and a
0:12:20 > 0:12:24year ago, still to distribute a single penny, it has failed to meet
0:12:24 > 0:12:29eighth late to set up a strategic order to set out its plans for
0:12:29 > 0:12:33skills by the deadline set, and a First Minister wanting to start a
0:12:33 > 0:12:38debate about raising taxes. Doesn't she see that first we need to debate
0:12:38 > 0:12:41boosting economic growth in Scotland to meet at least the level of
0:12:41 > 0:12:46elsewhere on these islands?First Minister.I'm not quite sure where
0:12:46 > 0:12:51Ruth Davidson has been recently but a very highly respected
0:12:51 > 0:12:54businesswoman in Scotland has been appointed to chair the strategic
0:12:54 > 0:12:58board and is currently working hard to put that in place to make sure we
0:12:58 > 0:13:03align the work of our enterprise and skills agencies. Can I point out to
0:13:03 > 0:13:07Ruth Davidson, it may have passed her by, one of the administrative
0:13:07 > 0:13:10options in this paper would reduce tax for the very lowest income
0:13:10 > 0:13:16earners in Scotland making the system even more progressive. Coming
0:13:16 > 0:13:19back to the central point, I absolutely agree and let's make this
0:13:19 > 0:13:24a point of consensus, that it is absolutely central importance to
0:13:24 > 0:13:29support the growth of our economy. But Ruth Davidson's proposal would
0:13:29 > 0:13:33involve in the Budget will set in a matter of weeks' time, if we were to
0:13:33 > 0:13:39take forward her proposal for a tax cut for the very richest in our
0:13:39 > 0:13:42society, of finding £140 million to take out of our Budget before we do
0:13:42 > 0:13:47anything else. I say again to Ruth Davidson, that is an issue she has
0:13:47 > 0:13:52to answer in this debate, form the part of our government, we put
0:13:52 > 0:13:55forward our proposals to protect public services, our ability to
0:13:55 > 0:13:59invest in the economy and make sure we are doing everything we possibly
0:13:59 > 0:14:04can to protect the most vulnerable in our society. Those are our
0:14:04 > 0:14:06priorities and will guide the development and decisions in our
0:14:06 > 0:14:14Budget.Jackie Baillie?I welcome the discussion paper on taxation and
0:14:14 > 0:14:19the focus on progressive taxation but can the First Minister tell the
0:14:19 > 0:14:26Chamber how much she needs to raise to end austerity?I would encourage
0:14:26 > 0:14:28Labour to take part in this discussion in the spirit we are
0:14:28 > 0:14:36opening it. The analysis sets out very openly how much each of the
0:14:36 > 0:14:41proposals of the parties at the election last year with arrays and
0:14:41 > 0:14:44sets out how much would be raised by the alternative proposals we have
0:14:44 > 0:14:50put forward, that is the starting position we put forward. To Budget,
0:14:50 > 0:14:54we have to take into account different things, mitigate austerity
0:14:54 > 0:14:59and as I said before, provide a fair pay increase for our public sector
0:14:59 > 0:15:04workers. So, let's have that discussion and try to come to a
0:15:04 > 0:15:06consensus that is in the best interests of everybody in our
0:15:06 > 0:15:14country. Jackie Baillie? Let me help the First Minister with an answer,
0:15:14 > 0:15:18becauseI think you need to know the scale of the challenge we face. To
0:15:18 > 0:15:21end austerity, you need to raise more than £800 million in revenue
0:15:21 > 0:15:25over the next two years. That's before we consider additional
0:15:25 > 0:15:31commitments. Yet the government's proposal is published today in the
0:15:31 > 0:15:35tax paper raises a maximum of £290 million. That doesn't even come
0:15:35 > 0:15:43close to closing the gap! There is a black hole.
0:15:43 > 0:15:47There is a black hole in the budget and more services will end up being
0:15:47 > 0:15:52cut. On top of that, after months of pressure, the First Minister has
0:15:52 > 0:15:56missed public sector workers a pay rise and that is very welcome
0:15:56 > 0:16:01indeed. But public sector workers have not had a pay rise since 2010,
0:16:01 > 0:16:06not a proper, decent pay rise. We need to be clear and we need a
0:16:06 > 0:16:10specific answer from the First Minister. Will Chi keep her promise
0:16:10 > 0:16:14and deliver a cost of living, real terms pay rise to public sector
0:16:14 > 0:16:19workers and will it be fully funded by the Scottish Government?
0:16:19 > 0:16:27Labour seems mired in confusion in this debate. Jackie Baillie puts a
0:16:27 > 0:16:32figure of £800 million before us today. Labour's proposals, at least
0:16:32 > 0:16:36the latest proposals because there had been so many, don't come close
0:16:36 > 0:16:42to raising that. So unless Labour is saying they will pile more pressure
0:16:42 > 0:16:47on the lowest income taxpayers, they have questions to answer. On public
0:16:47 > 0:16:52sector pay, I have been very clear we will set out our public sector
0:16:52 > 0:16:56pay policy when we publish our budget, that is the normal course of
0:16:56 > 0:17:01events. I want fair pay increases for public sector workers, of course
0:17:01 > 0:17:05they have to be affordable which is one reason this debate on tax is so
0:17:05 > 0:17:10important. We have set out a range of possible options, there may be
0:17:10 > 0:17:13other options parties want to bring forward, but let's go into this
0:17:13 > 0:17:18discussion in the spirit of trying to find consensus in the interests
0:17:18 > 0:17:22of our society, public services and economy. That is what I would
0:17:22 > 0:17:26encourage all parties to do. At least those of us on this side of
0:17:26 > 0:17:33the chamber, let's not forget that yes, the impact of Tory austerity
0:17:33 > 0:17:36goes further than anything this Parliament can do to mitigate it,
0:17:36 > 0:17:39that is why we should keep up the pressure on the Conservatives and
0:17:39 > 0:17:46Don the Chancellor as we go forward to his budget to stop austerity at
0:17:46 > 0:17:50source and not have it passed onto the shoulders of the most vulnerable
0:17:50 > 0:17:58in our society.Let me provide the First Minister with some detail. And
0:17:58 > 0:18:05can I refer to page 32 of her own document? Labour's proposals or
0:18:05 > 0:18:11costed at around £700 million in one year. I talked about £800 million in
0:18:11 > 0:18:16two years, I think even she will agree that there is more than enough
0:18:16 > 0:18:19in Labour's proposals to end austerity, something she has so far
0:18:19 > 0:18:26refused to do. Presiding come up with this Government, promises are
0:18:26 > 0:18:30made to be broken. Dutch Presiding Officer. At promise to cut class
0:18:30 > 0:18:34sizes broken, her promise to young people to abolish student debt
0:18:34 > 0:18:38broken, her promise to our elderly to eradicate delayed discharge in
0:18:38 > 0:18:46hospitals broken. Now she also has a promise that she made the patience
0:18:46 > 0:18:51of a legal guarantee the treatment within 12 weeks, also broken. Now we
0:18:51 > 0:18:57have before us a tax plan that simply does not add up and a list of
0:18:57 > 0:19:02commitments she knows she cannot pay for, so tell me, First Minister, who
0:19:02 > 0:19:09are you going to fail next?First Minister.
0:19:09 > 0:19:16On the basis of that performance, no wonder Labour are going through
0:19:16 > 0:19:20leaders or people at the dispatch box at the rate that they are! Maybe
0:19:20 > 0:19:24one day they will find somebody capable of asking a decent question!
0:19:24 > 0:19:30Let's get back to this. In all seriousness, Jackie Baillie, James
0:19:30 > 0:19:36Kelly is shouting at me, what is the answer? What was the question?! If
0:19:36 > 0:19:41anybody can work that out! They are doing better than me. Labour have
0:19:41 > 0:19:47just demonstrated that it is incapable of the kind of mature,
0:19:47 > 0:19:53serious and honest debate that this document opens the door to and you
0:19:53 > 0:19:57know what? Jackie Baillie, I am not sure if Jackie Baillie did this
0:19:57 > 0:20:00deliberately or if she does not understand the figures in this
0:20:00 > 0:20:06paper. When she was quoting figures about the labour policy, she
0:20:06 > 0:20:13deliberately excluded the behaviour change element. When she quoted the
0:20:13 > 0:20:20figures about the SNP policy, she included that. So one way or the
0:20:20 > 0:20:24other, you have got to be consistent. So let's get back to the
0:20:24 > 0:20:31central point at issue here. We have opened the door today to a serious,
0:20:31 > 0:20:35mature, grown-up discussion about how we fund public services and our
0:20:35 > 0:20:41economy. Let's see if any of the other parties in this chamber
0:20:41 > 0:20:57capable of such maturity! Would members please be a little
0:20:57 > 0:21:00more quiet? Listen to the question and answer respectfully. I live in
0:21:00 > 0:21:09hope! Constituency questions first from Andy Wightman.Thank you,
0:21:09 > 0:21:11Presiding Officer. The First Minister will be aware of proposals
0:21:11 > 0:21:15by the City of Edinburgh Council to close the city of end of broken
0:21:15 > 0:21:22music school, I declare it personal interest is my daughter is an
0:21:22 > 0:21:26alumni. Was she continue to ensure the services be provided by the
0:21:26 > 0:21:31Scottish government and the City of Edinburgh does not have discretion
0:21:31 > 0:21:34to close the school and will she considered the financial
0:21:34 > 0:21:37arrangements in place to support national centres of excellence can
0:21:37 > 0:21:42be made clear to ensure pupils and future pupils have clarity and
0:21:42 > 0:21:48certainty about the future of these world-class facilities?I agree that
0:21:48 > 0:21:55these are world-class facilities. Yes, there is specific funding for
0:21:55 > 0:22:00the school although that is now ruled -- rolled into the total
0:22:00 > 0:22:03government settlement. We have highly value the role of all six
0:22:03 > 0:22:07centres of excellence in Scotland including the city of end wrap music
0:22:07 > 0:22:15school. The Scottish government has been doing with the City of
0:22:15 > 0:22:18Edinburgh Council and it is only a proposal at this stage but I think
0:22:18 > 0:22:22the council will want to reflect the fact the centres of excellence,
0:22:22 > 0:22:26including the music school, allow children and young people across
0:22:26 > 0:22:30Scotland the opportunity to receive expert tuition in their specialist,
0:22:30 > 0:22:34in this case music. That is something very valuable and I think
0:22:34 > 0:22:36there is plenty of evidence of that and I'm sure the importance of that
0:22:36 > 0:22:43is something the City of Edinburgh Council is reflecting on carefully.
0:22:43 > 0:22:51Molly is 18 months old, she suffers from reflux and will not eat solid
0:22:51 > 0:22:56food. They a 12 week wait to see a specialist, her parents were
0:22:56 > 0:22:58extremely concerned about the physical and psychological impact of
0:22:58 > 0:23:07this condition. Molly was told by greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS that
0:23:07 > 0:23:11the waiting time had increased to 21 weeks. The development and
0:23:11 > 0:23:16well-being of a baby is on the line. Wilbur First Minister agreed to meet
0:23:16 > 0:23:20Molly's parents and urgently look into this case? -- will the First
0:23:20 > 0:23:25Minister agreed?Absolutely understand the anxiety of Molly's
0:23:25 > 0:23:30parents. This is a situation of huge concern to them, the well-being and
0:23:30 > 0:23:34development of babies is of paramount importance. I will
0:23:34 > 0:23:40urgently look into this case and make, unveil myself of the detail
0:23:40 > 0:23:43and I will ask the Health Secretary to write to the member and if
0:23:43 > 0:23:48necessary engage with the parents of Molly and I'm sure we all want to
0:23:48 > 0:23:55wish them and Molly the very best. Technical issues and staffing
0:23:55 > 0:24:01problems are severely disrupting the ferry service which is readily off
0:24:01 > 0:24:06for weeks on end and is against suspended this week. The situation
0:24:06 > 0:24:10is untenable and unacceptable. The Transport Minister has promise to
0:24:10 > 0:24:14get a grip of the situation but local patience is wearing extremely
0:24:14 > 0:24:18thin. What assurance can the First Minister provide a solution is in
0:24:18 > 0:24:22sight and users of the ferry will finally get the service they
0:24:22 > 0:24:27deserve?It is hugely important people who rely on our ferry
0:24:27 > 0:24:32services have reliable services to use, that is the case on this route
0:24:32 > 0:24:38as it is with all the routes, we invest heavily in our ferry
0:24:38 > 0:24:46services, there are many new routes available. Specifically on the
0:24:46 > 0:24:50Kilcreggan and issues he is raising, I will ask the Transport Minister to
0:24:50 > 0:24:53reply to the member and if there are issues, it is vital everything
0:24:53 > 0:25:00possible is done to respond.Can I also welcome the very interesting
0:25:00 > 0:25:06discussion paper on income tax from the Government today? Last year in
0:25:06 > 0:25:08the election, between all the political parties, three basic ideas
0:25:08 > 0:25:14were put forward on tax. One, no change. With or without tweaking on
0:25:14 > 0:25:20the thresholds to benefit only the wealthy. Or an increase on the basic
0:25:20 > 0:25:25rate which would have increased tax for low earners. And finally, the
0:25:25 > 0:25:28Green Party proposition which showed we can raise revenue for public
0:25:28 > 0:25:32services while protecting low earners and reducing inequalities,
0:25:32 > 0:25:37with a fairer range of rates and bands. Is it not clear now that the
0:25:37 > 0:25:43no change option the SNP put forward is off the table and an increase in
0:25:43 > 0:25:48the basic rate is off the table and the Green option of a fairer range
0:25:48 > 0:25:56of rates and bands is the only serious option left standing?
0:25:56 > 0:26:00Ten out of ten for effort in claiming credit for everything in
0:26:00 > 0:26:06the paper! Let me just say, the SNP's proposal for a manifesto last
0:26:06 > 0:26:11year was not no change and that is borne out in the paper in terms of
0:26:11 > 0:26:16revenue forecasts for that. Patrick Harvie is right to say that we were
0:26:16 > 0:26:20not in agreement with proposals to increase tax for the lowest earners
0:26:20 > 0:26:25and I still do not favour proposals that increased tax for the lowest
0:26:25 > 0:26:28earners. But I do recognise the Programme for Government that given
0:26:28 > 0:26:32the pressures we face and our desire and determination to protect what
0:26:32 > 0:26:36really matters to people across Scotland, we must have an open and
0:26:36 > 0:26:39honest discussion about whether those on the highest incomes pay a
0:26:39 > 0:26:45modest amount more to try to enable us to protect services. So we look
0:26:45 > 0:26:49forward to engaging in these discussions. I hope all parties will
0:26:49 > 0:26:52do so constructively. The other point, and to be fair to Patrick
0:26:52 > 0:26:57Harvie, this is a point he has made previously and I am frequently told
0:26:57 > 0:27:01in this chamber we had a minority administration, if all parties
0:27:01 > 0:27:04simply stick to their manifesto positions, we will not pass a
0:27:04 > 0:27:09budget. And this Parliament does not pass a budget, this Parliament fails
0:27:09 > 0:27:14in its duty to the Scottish people, so we have an opportunity now not to
0:27:14 > 0:27:17stick to previous positions but to come into discussion with the best
0:27:17 > 0:27:21interests of the country at heart and if we do that, we will get a
0:27:21 > 0:27:28budget passed and more importantly, the right budget.Patrick Harvie. My
0:27:28 > 0:27:32first question was not meant as a criticism. I congratulate the First
0:27:32 > 0:27:35Minister foreseeing the sense in what the Greens have been advocating
0:27:35 > 0:27:40for the last couple of years. It is very clear that the only way the
0:27:40 > 0:27:45Scottish Government can pass a budget this year it is by raising
0:27:45 > 0:27:52enough revenue for public priorities like an impatient increase but to do
0:27:52 > 0:27:57it fairly in a way that reduces inequality. If we do that, plus
0:27:57 > 0:28:00they're not be an equally open and creative discussion about the other
0:28:00 > 0:28:06side of the tax picture, the local tax picture where the SNP has
0:28:06 > 0:28:10stalled on local tax reform for far too long which is overdue and a
0:28:10 > 0:28:16project which moderates put back onto the agenda?-- and must be put
0:28:16 > 0:28:20back. We made reform/ year to local taxation and those are right now
0:28:20 > 0:28:25providing additional revenue to public services across the country.
0:28:25 > 0:28:31I know Patrick Harvie's position on wider reform the local tax and no
0:28:31 > 0:28:35doubt that is a discussion we will all have in the years to come, but
0:28:35 > 0:28:39this Parliament has a job in the next few weeks and that is to come
0:28:39 > 0:28:44to a position on tax and to pass a budget that protects public services
0:28:44 > 0:28:48and investment in our economy. The document we publish today I think
0:28:48 > 0:28:53it's a really good foundation to try to do that. This is a test not just
0:28:53 > 0:28:57of the Government's ability to be open and honest and realistic and
0:28:57 > 0:29:02mature in our approach, it is a test of every party in this Parliament as
0:29:02 > 0:29:07well. Let's see if we can live up to that test, collectively and the next
0:29:07 > 0:29:15few weeks will answer that question. Supplementary is, the first from
0:29:15 > 0:29:21Mary fee.Papers released this week from the joint programme board
0:29:21 > 0:29:24overseeing the British Transport Police merger show there is still
0:29:24 > 0:29:27work required to assess the cost of the merger. Does the First Minister
0:29:27 > 0:29:34agreed that progressing the merger of BTB and Police Scotland without
0:29:34 > 0:29:38doing a full cost analysis in the first instance demonstrates a
0:29:38 > 0:29:41shocking lack of financial prudence on the part of the Scottish
0:29:41 > 0:29:47Government? And further, what comments does the First Minister
0:29:47 > 0:29:51have on the petition handed in this week with over 11,500 signatures
0:29:51 > 0:30:01against the merger?No, I don't agree, the merger of the British
0:30:01 > 0:30:05Transport Police, which has now been devolved to the Scottish Government,
0:30:05 > 0:30:08something that Labour supported in the context of the Smith Commission,
0:30:08 > 0:30:13is being taken forward for three main reasons. To approve, in proof
0:30:13 > 0:30:16cap accountability, to make sure the Transport Police have access to the
0:30:16 > 0:30:21wider range of resources Police Scotland, and to future proof the
0:30:21 > 0:30:25governance of the British police because we know the Conservative UK
0:30:25 > 0:30:30manifesto at the last election said they were going to create a bigger
0:30:30 > 0:30:32infrastructure police force and absorb the British Transport Police
0:30:32 > 0:30:37within that so if we do not take action here, we risk leaving the
0:30:37 > 0:30:41British Transport Police isolated within that governance structure. So
0:30:41 > 0:30:44we will take forward these proposals sensibly and responsibly. The joint
0:30:44 > 0:30:50programme board is there precisely to do the detailed work to make sure
0:30:50 > 0:30:54that this is a success and we will continue of course to work with
0:30:54 > 0:30:56those who are employed in the British Transport Police to make
0:30:56 > 0:31:02sure we are taking account of all of their concerns as we go forward.
0:31:04 > 0:31:1250 years ago today, the people of Hamilton elected Winnie Ewing. 1967
0:31:12 > 0:31:17was in many ways the start of modern Scottish politics in which this
0:31:17 > 0:31:22nation are spies to be an outward looking, gender balanced European
0:31:22 > 0:31:25nation.LAUGHTER . Does the First Minister agree, the
0:31:25 > 0:31:31message should ring out to the world, Scotland wants to get on?
0:31:31 > 0:31:44First Minister.Of course, it was on this day in 1967 that Winnie Ewan
0:31:44 > 0:31:50Bacharach Game one of the by-election, that changed the course
0:31:50 > 0:31:54of Scottish political history -- Winnie Ewing. She is a champion of
0:31:54 > 0:31:58being a woman in a man's world and in this Parliament she famously
0:31:58 > 0:32:05reconvened in 19 99. She is quite simply a legend in her lifetime, if
0:32:05 > 0:32:08you are watching, we send you our love and we thank you. APPLAUSE
0:32:08 > 0:32:11.
0:32:13 > 0:32:17Thank you.
0:32:24 > 0:32:32Claire Baker?Thank you, presiding officer. This week, the UK
0:32:32 > 0:32:36Government published the report of an independent enquiry into deaths
0:32:36 > 0:32:40in custody along with their response. I have previously called
0:32:40 > 0:32:44for an enquiry into deaths in Scotland because I strongly believe
0:32:44 > 0:32:47there could be an improvement in the interests of families and police,
0:32:47 > 0:32:54particularly wallowing the death in police custody in Fife. --
0:32:54 > 0:33:00particularly following. Will the First Minister hold a inquiry and
0:33:00 > 0:33:08what is her response to the published resort? -- report?We will
0:33:08 > 0:33:11consider the Dame's report, the government and the Crown Office will
0:33:11 > 0:33:17do that as well. It is important to remind members that custody
0:33:17 > 0:33:21arrangements in Scotland are distinct from those in England and
0:33:21 > 0:33:25Wales, under the fatal accident and deaths Scotland act, and inquiry
0:33:25 > 0:33:30must be held into any death in police custody unless the law
0:33:30 > 0:33:33advocate is satisfied the circumstances have clearly been
0:33:33 > 0:33:37established in other proceedings. We recognise improvements are to be
0:33:37 > 0:33:40made so we will study this report carefully and determine whether
0:33:40 > 0:33:47there are any actions, this is for the Crown Office, they decide if any
0:33:47 > 0:33:52action is required to take. While understanding the concerned members
0:33:52 > 0:33:56have in the circumstances surrounding the recent death in
0:33:56 > 0:34:00Fife, the member will appreciate I am not able to comment on that more
0:34:00 > 0:34:03right now because that is still under consideration by the Crown
0:34:03 > 0:34:06Office, but these are important issues the government will continue
0:34:06 > 0:34:12to pay serious attention to.I would also ask the First Minister in light
0:34:12 > 0:34:17of reports by the MacMillan Cancer Support attempted to combat fake
0:34:17 > 0:34:19news regarding health conditions, what action the Scottish Government
0:34:19 > 0:34:26is taking to ensure people are not misled by fake information online?
0:34:26 > 0:34:30This is an important question, I think Mac Millan's appointment of a
0:34:30 > 0:34:35digital nurses welcome and will be a good resource for patients.
0:34:35 > 0:34:40Accessible and accurate medical information is vital which is why
0:34:40 > 0:34:47NHS 24 produces the website NHS informed. Scott it follows strict
0:34:47 > 0:34:51instructions, in partnership with a range of organisations including
0:34:51 > 0:34:55MacMillan Cancer Support, to verify the accuracy and quality of content
0:34:55 > 0:34:58and I would urge anybody who wants to go online to look into any
0:34:58 > 0:35:05medical condition to use NHS informed because they can be ensured
0:35:05 > 0:35:12they can get reliable and accurate information there -- NHS Inform.
0:35:12 > 0:35:17Some of the information on the website, such as guidance to finding
0:35:17 > 0:35:22the right local services can be useful to many in Scotland. Can the
0:35:22 > 0:35:24First Minister outlined what steps have been taken to promote the
0:35:24 > 0:35:31website for use in Scotland?NHS Inform does provide a range of
0:35:31 > 0:35:35information not on procedures but on healthy living, illnesses and
0:35:35 > 0:35:43conditions and on health rights. In April of this year, NHS 24 launched
0:35:43 > 0:35:46a publicity campaign including social media activity and
0:35:46 > 0:35:50advertisements on buses and trains that are significantly raised public
0:35:50 > 0:35:55awareness of NHS Inform. The number of visits to it have almost
0:35:55 > 0:36:01quadrupled since the launch of the campaign, from 116,000 visits in
0:36:01 > 0:36:07April 2017 to 460,000 in September. The NHS will continue to take steps
0:36:07 > 0:36:11to make people aware of that and as MS peas, we should all make sure our
0:36:11 > 0:36:19constituents are aware of it, too. -- MSPs.Bands are rightly concerned
0:36:19 > 0:36:24about cancer waiting times, pointing to the fact that NHS Lanarkshire are
0:36:24 > 0:36:28the only area achieving their targets -- MacMillan Cancer Support
0:36:28 > 0:36:32are also concerned. Not only did they publish details of their delays
0:36:32 > 0:36:36but the reasons for it and the steps they are taking to mitigate. Does
0:36:36 > 0:36:40the First Minister agree it is now time to roll this practice out
0:36:40 > 0:36:44across all our health boards to reduce cancer waiting times in the
0:36:44 > 0:36:49same way Lanarkshire has done?Of course, the Health Secretary is
0:36:49 > 0:36:58already during a grip group to look at what can be done, one of the
0:36:58 > 0:37:02objectives is to look at NHS Lanarkshire which is to look at what
0:37:02 > 0:37:05has been done to see how it can be better rolled out across the rest of
0:37:05 > 0:37:09the country. I will ask the member to keep up-to-date as the work
0:37:09 > 0:37:15progresses.To ask the First Minister what criteria will be used
0:37:15 > 0:37:19to assess the outcomes of pupil equity funding.We are currently
0:37:19 > 0:37:22consulting on the criteria to measure progress towards a closing
0:37:22 > 0:37:28the attainment gap, and we will continue in the national improvement
0:37:28 > 0:37:32plan published in September. We expect authorities to make use of
0:37:32 > 0:37:37the data they have in and incorporates details of equity
0:37:37 > 0:37:41funding in the existing processes, including annual school improvement
0:37:41 > 0:37:45plans and standard and quality reports. School inspection and other
0:37:45 > 0:37:48review process will also be used when necessary to ensure schools are
0:37:48 > 0:37:53using their funding appropriately. This Smith.The First Minister will
0:37:53 > 0:37:57be aware of recent reports which indicates the pupil equity fund is
0:37:57 > 0:38:01being used in some councils to plug gaps in other areas of the local
0:38:01 > 0:38:05education Budget, for example on janitor overtime -- Liz Smith. Does
0:38:05 > 0:38:10the First Minister agree some of these do not have the focus on
0:38:10 > 0:38:13literacy and numerous sea in the way the government has stated and to
0:38:13 > 0:38:18restore this focus, will she agree to reverse the Scottish decision to
0:38:18 > 0:38:20remove Scotland from a well-respected international
0:38:20 > 0:38:26measurements on literacy and new Morrissey?Given the discussion we
0:38:26 > 0:38:36often have on the PISA results, there is scrutiny on other Scottish
0:38:36 > 0:38:40education system. Part of improving the National education framework is
0:38:40 > 0:38:44to make sure we have more rigorous and detailed information here in got
0:38:44 > 0:38:49them on the performance of our schools and education system. On the
0:38:49 > 0:38:54issue of funding, it is there to provide additional parts in schools
0:38:54 > 0:39:06to close the attainment gap. We plan to use this money to assess the
0:39:06 > 0:39:12janitor 's payment issue, that is plainly wrong. That is not using
0:39:12 > 0:39:15PITH money. It is for headteachers to determine how they think it best
0:39:15 > 0:39:21to use that money, but it should be used for new services in line with
0:39:21 > 0:39:29the criteria for PFF and closing the attainment gap. The work I spoke in
0:39:29 > 0:39:32my initial answer will help us to monitor that as the pupil equity
0:39:32 > 0:39:41fund scheme continues.Pupil equity fund is indeed a good thing but it
0:39:41 > 0:39:47must indeed be additional. It is common sense there will be pressure
0:39:47 > 0:39:54to plug gaps in court funding as long as school budgets are being cut
0:39:54 > 0:40:04year on year alongside PIFF being made available. Can the equity funds
0:40:04 > 0:40:09do the job it is indeed being designed to do? Some quick points,
0:40:09 > 0:40:18I'm glad to hearIain Gray thinks it is such a good thing and they want
0:40:18 > 0:40:26to explain why he voted against it in the Budget. Well, you did! Order,
0:40:26 > 0:40:30please. Amazing how Labour really don't like having some basic facts
0:40:30 > 0:40:36pointed out to them. They get very uncomfortable. Back to the serious
0:40:36 > 0:40:46issue at hand. Secondly, the spending power of local councils, it
0:40:46 > 0:40:53increased in this financial year. How we continue to protect local
0:40:53 > 0:41:00services is part of the discussion around tax. Local councils also had
0:41:00 > 0:41:07the opportunity to increase council tax and strangely the own milk back
0:41:07 > 0:41:13-- the only councils that did not increase it to work Labour councils.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16Their own councils will not exercise the power they have two increase
0:41:16 > 0:41:26funding available.Question number six.To ask the First Minister what
0:41:26 > 0:41:31action the Scottish Government plans to take to help families faced with
0:41:31 > 0:41:39financial hardship, should interest rates rise.In November 2014, we
0:41:39 > 0:41:44launched Scotland's financial health service, a one-stop web-based
0:41:44 > 0:41:47service providing impartial information for anyone with a
0:41:47 > 0:41:51concern about debt, borrowing, managing money or general financial
0:41:51 > 0:41:56concerns. It can point anyone to be most appropriate area of support. In
0:41:56 > 0:42:01addition, we have committed to establishing a financial health tech
0:42:01 > 0:42:05guaranteeing people finding ways to maximise their income and finding
0:42:05 > 0:42:07the best utility and financial products and families in need
0:42:07 > 0:42:15through the Scottish welfare fund. Pauline McNeill.Ten years of
0:42:15 > 0:42:18stagnation, low wages and the rising cost of living mean more households
0:42:18 > 0:42:23could be tipped over the edge into is various financial difficulty.
0:42:23 > 0:42:27Should there even be a small rise in interest rates later on today? I
0:42:27 > 0:42:32wonder if the First Minister shares my concern. There are one third of
0:42:32 > 0:42:36Scots worried about the money that they owe, and there are many turning
0:42:36 > 0:42:41to credit or the essential things. That includes things like their gas
0:42:41 > 0:42:47and electricity and basic things. Indeed, the OBE are, this is a
0:42:47 > 0:42:53serious point, says that household debt in four years' time could be as
0:42:53 > 0:42:58high as 47% -- the OBR. I realise it is difficult to respond to the
0:42:58 > 0:43:03magnitude of that question, but I wonder in view of the First
0:43:03 > 0:43:09Minister's answer and the importance of affordable credit, is it time for
0:43:09 > 0:43:12the government to invest more seriously in affordable credit and
0:43:12 > 0:43:15to promote credit unions more seriously because they have a
0:43:15 > 0:43:20crucial role to play in increasing financial inclusion? One area I
0:43:20 > 0:43:28think is worth looking at...A question, please.I'm surprised at
0:43:28 > 0:43:38the reaction to the question now. Ask a question, please.As the First
0:43:38 > 0:43:44Minister, if she would look at the non-for-profit lending such as in
0:43:44 > 0:43:47Fife, because of the serious role that credit unions and schemes like
0:43:47 > 0:43:50this can play, for let's not forget the many Scots...A question,
0:43:50 > 0:43:56please.Would she prepared to take a personal interest in taking this
0:43:56 > 0:44:03forward? Thank you.First Minister. Firstly, on the point of consensus
0:44:03 > 0:44:11because there is a big area of consensus, I am a massive supporter
0:44:11 > 0:44:16of the credit union movement. This government has supported the
0:44:16 > 0:44:19movement and will continue to do so and look at what more we can do for
0:44:19 > 0:44:23that. I understand the Bank of England has announced the first rise
0:44:23 > 0:44:30in interest rates since July 2007, and I know that will be of concern
0:44:30 > 0:44:34to families across the country. We will continue to look at how we
0:44:34 > 0:44:38support those on the lowest incomes. Going back to one of the central
0:44:38 > 0:44:41issues we have been discussing at First Minister's Questions today,
0:44:41 > 0:44:45this is genuinely one of the points of disagreement between those of us
0:44:45 > 0:44:49on these benches and Labour's approach to income tax, we don't
0:44:49 > 0:44:54think we should increase it on the lowest income families for many of
0:44:54 > 0:44:57the reasons Pauline McNeill has talked about. These issues have to
0:44:57 > 0:45:01be at the heart of all the decisions we take and will have to continue to
0:45:01 > 0:45:07be so from this government.George Adam.I would ask the First Minister
0:45:07 > 0:45:12how many households have received a port from the Scottish welfare fund?
0:45:12 > 0:45:17Since the creation of the Scottish welfare fund in April 2013, over
0:45:17 > 0:45:23265,000 households in Scotland have received grants totalling £140
0:45:23 > 0:45:27million, one third of those households families with children.
0:45:27 > 0:45:31It's not acceptable this type of support covering the basic cost of
0:45:31 > 0:45:35living is needed by so many people but we know the impact of the UK
0:45:35 > 0:45:40Government's harsh welfare cuts its having and we are repeatedly warned
0:45:40 > 0:45:45of the chaotic roll out of Universal Credit, particularly the delay for
0:45:45 > 0:45:49payment. We will continue to do all we can to support those families and
0:45:49 > 0:45:54remain committed to a welfare system
0:45:54 > 0:46:00Is the First Minister aware that report this week warned disabled
0:46:00 > 0:46:05people and their families are being left hungry, cold and closed less by
0:46:05 > 0:46:09Tory cuts with some driven the thoughts of suicide? Given that
0:46:09 > 0:46:1330,000 people in Scotland could lose out once the Government's Pip
0:46:13 > 0:46:18Broward is complete, it does the First Minister see demand for
0:46:18 > 0:46:24welfare growing further as the Tory obsession with austerity continues?
0:46:24 > 0:46:28Yes, I do. I was very concerned like many will have been about the
0:46:28 > 0:46:32findings of the report which highlighted that 44% of disabled
0:46:32 > 0:46:36people could see the disability benefits reduced or completely
0:46:36 > 0:46:40removed and that is just an example of the continued onslaught of
0:46:40 > 0:46:43welfare cuts from the Tory government hitting the most
0:46:43 > 0:46:47vulnerable in society. Putting immense financial and at times
0:46:47 > 0:46:56emotional pressure on them. When there is still a lot of months left,
0:46:56 > 0:46:58people need to have somewhere to turn and I wish it was not necessary
0:46:58 > 0:47:02but I'm glad we do provide a safety net through the Scottish Welfare
0:47:02 > 0:47:06Fund. People need more, they need the UK Government to pay attention
0:47:06 > 0:47:10to the catalogue of evidence of damage they are causing to the most
0:47:10 > 0:47:19vulnerable and to act now to reverse these cuts.That concludes First
0:47:19 > 0:47:23Minister's Questions.
0:47:23 > 0:47:27You heard a question from Pauline McNeill about the possible impact of
0:47:27 > 0:47:32any increase in interest rates and to bring yourselves up to date,
0:47:32 > 0:47:38there has been an increase in interest rates by a quarter of 1%.
0:47:38 > 0:47:43The impact of that is to be digested across the economy more widely as
0:47:43 > 0:47:48will be impact of the tax plans put forward by the Scottish Government.
0:47:48 > 0:47:51I'm joined now by journalists Elisabeth O'Leary from Reuters
0:47:51 > 0:47:53and from the Telegraph Simon Johnson.
0:47:53 > 0:47:57The interest rate rise first, it has been nearly a decade since the
0:47:57 > 0:48:02interest rates have been frozen and it is a tiny increase but a big
0:48:02 > 0:48:05symbol.It is symbolically important and also important for millions of
0:48:05 > 0:48:09mortgage holders across the country. They will find bills going up
0:48:09 > 0:48:13potentially by hundreds of pounds depending on their mortgages. A lot
0:48:13 > 0:48:16of growth in the UK economy is propped up I consumer spending so
0:48:16 > 0:48:20that money is taken out of their pockets and they might find they are
0:48:20 > 0:48:24not spending as much and there might be a large impact on the entire UK
0:48:24 > 0:48:30economy. It feeds into the tax rates, the problem, the paper that
0:48:30 > 0:48:33Nicola Sturgeon published this morning, because she is trying to
0:48:33 > 0:48:38sell tax increases to the country at a time when household finances of
0:48:38 > 0:48:43Fame sink squeezes from different directions and this is another big
0:48:43 > 0:48:47one.-- finances are facing. Savers may benefit but the point was made
0:48:47 > 0:48:53by Ruth Davidson, a point of challenge in the economy and perhaps
0:48:53 > 0:48:59the tax increases are not the road to go down.The increased rate
0:48:59 > 0:49:07itself was controversial. And the concern is that economic growth is
0:49:07 > 0:49:13slower in Scotland, so Scottish taxes are going to be lower. So if
0:49:13 > 0:49:16you put that extra burden on the economy, you are doing nothing tell
0:49:16 > 0:49:21Scotland.Let's talk about the detail in the paper. The document
0:49:21 > 0:49:28examines the opposition and boils down in options. The first is adding
0:49:28 > 0:49:32a penny to the additional rates and it is extra bands. Four rather than
0:49:32 > 0:49:38three or even five or even six.It gets increasingly complicated. As
0:49:38 > 0:49:42the First Minister said in a chamber, you are making it more
0:49:42 > 0:49:48sensitive to income. So it is a trade-off. It is more, located and
0:49:48 > 0:49:53the crossover point to pay more money is relatively low, about
0:49:53 > 0:49:57£25,000 according to the figures in the back of the report, £31,000 when
0:49:57 > 0:50:02you take into account the Personal Allowance. This is police officers,
0:50:02 > 0:50:07teachers, social workers, not a -- not people who earn a lot of money
0:50:07 > 0:50:12but you have to pay more.At the news conference which you attended,
0:50:12 > 0:50:16she said she was accused of being cautious on tax and she pleaded
0:50:16 > 0:50:20guilty to that because she said she had to be cautious, it was not a
0:50:20 > 0:50:24toy, it has an impact on the economy, so she was aware of the
0:50:24 > 0:50:28potential impact on the economy and she would argue it is necessary to
0:50:28 > 0:50:33raise income tax at this time.It is interesting they are publishing this
0:50:33 > 0:50:38document. It is opening it up to public debate, an area they had been
0:50:38 > 0:50:42hinting at for quite a long time, they are under a lot of pressure.
0:50:42 > 0:50:47And opposition parties as well. Exactly, and it is to test the
0:50:47 > 0:50:52waters in a way to see what support there is among the Scottish public
0:50:52 > 0:50:56for the needed extra money for public services. How popular are
0:50:56 > 0:51:00these public services and people prepared to pay the price to
0:51:00 > 0:51:05continue with free health, free prescriptions and also increase
0:51:05 > 0:51:12public sector pay?The shape of a possible deal, Nicola Sturgeon said
0:51:12 > 0:51:17again there could be no budget because they are minorities, which
0:51:17 > 0:51:21you saw they will not deal with the Tories on tax. Labour and the
0:51:21 > 0:51:25Liberal Democrats David an increase in the standard rate and Patrick
0:51:25 > 0:51:29Harvie of the Greens seemed awfully pleased!To a degree, anyway.
0:51:29 > 0:51:33Suggesting tax increases at the last election. It was interesting she
0:51:33 > 0:51:38chose to put the stuff out on Thursday morning before First
0:51:38 > 0:51:41Minister's Questions, to make life easy for yourself, you would do it
0:51:41 > 0:51:43afterwards, so she wants to get on the front but to set the political
0:51:43 > 0:51:48agenda. We saw a political problem she's going to base today, the
0:51:48 > 0:51:53Labour Party on one hand have said, look at the promises you have made
0:51:53 > 0:51:55on public sector pay, extra spending for the NHS, the money you are
0:51:55 > 0:52:00raising for this is nowhere near what you say you need. Jackie
0:52:00 > 0:52:03Baillie behind you make that very point. They are right on that. From
0:52:03 > 0:52:08the Tories perspective, ordinary taxpayers saying, why do we pay
0:52:08 > 0:52:14more? I think it is going to be on sale because she's asking households
0:52:14 > 0:52:18to pay more not for an improved service, but to keep what they have.
0:52:18 > 0:52:23That is going to be more difficult. Lisbeth, you have a political
0:52:23 > 0:52:27dichotomy on left and right a philosophical dichotomy about the
0:52:27 > 0:52:33nature of taxation. Ruth Davidson said the economy requires to be
0:52:33 > 0:52:36stimulated by low tax, because Sturgeon arguing you can stimulate
0:52:36 > 0:52:41the economy if it is productive taxation producing investments that
0:52:41 > 0:52:45potentially benefit the economy. Interesting dilemma. Yes, I think
0:52:45 > 0:52:50the point really is that they do need a better consensus. They could
0:52:50 > 0:52:53possibly work towards a better consensus because these are real
0:52:53 > 0:52:58dilemmas and people understand them in the context of Brexit. The reason
0:52:58 > 0:53:03interest rates have just risen is because we have an inflation problem
0:53:03 > 0:53:08induced by Brexit. And while we want to get away, the Scottish and wants
0:53:08 > 0:53:11to get away from the idea Brexit is dominating everything, let's not
0:53:11 > 0:53:15talk about that because it does not do was any favours, they want to put
0:53:15 > 0:53:21this debate into the public domain and convince people this is a debate
0:53:21 > 0:53:24that needs to be had and people need to get involved in it.Wait to see
0:53:24 > 0:53:29this going in terms of the politics of this place, does look like an SNP
0:53:29 > 0:53:33and Green Deal? One stumbling block could be the money they are raising
0:53:33 > 0:53:37under Nicola Sturgeon's modest proposals, I can't help thinking of
0:53:37 > 0:53:42Jonathan Smith, put -- Jonathan Swift, but never mind! But the money
0:53:42 > 0:53:46is rather less than the Greens were talking about raising.Yes, I can
0:53:46 > 0:53:52see the SNP moving in that favour towards the Green plans as part of a
0:53:52 > 0:53:59deal with the Greens. Politically, the Tories absolutely, no deal.
0:53:59 > 0:54:04Labour, about to elect a new leader who could be very left-wing and they
0:54:04 > 0:54:08will argue they are the real deal left. It is not benefit them to do a
0:54:08 > 0:54:13deal either. I think probably another deal with the Greens, with
0:54:13 > 0:54:15perhaps Nicola Sturgeon moving further in their direction.And one
0:54:15 > 0:54:20price of that could be to dock the plan to cut aviation tax because the
0:54:20 > 0:54:25Greens are so against it.They have already made a step in that
0:54:25 > 0:54:28direction so that is not a major block.Hold on for a couple of
0:54:28 > 0:54:33seconds, you mentioned Brexit and the Scottish Secretary was giving
0:54:33 > 0:54:36evidence to a Holyrood committee today on the subject of Brexit and
0:54:36 > 0:54:40he said it was definitely not the position of the UK Government that
0:54:40 > 0:54:43they anticipated no deal over Brexit, but they had to prepare for
0:54:43 > 0:54:48every opportunity. He is a member of the UK Cabinet from which the
0:54:48 > 0:54:51Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has just resigned, the replacement
0:54:51 > 0:54:54announced today, so we took a chance after the meeting to ask what he
0:54:54 > 0:55:00made those developments.Resignation is a personal issue. Michael Beasley
0:55:00 > 0:55:05felt it was the right thing to do. He will be a lost because he was a
0:55:05 > 0:55:11real champion of Scotland. We have a new Defence Secretary in Gavin
0:55:11 > 0:55:14Williamson, I have every confidence in him, is a very experienced
0:55:14 > 0:55:19politician and business person and I am sure he will carry out that job
0:55:19 > 0:55:25well. It is for other individuals to determine whether they carry on or
0:55:25 > 0:55:29whether they step back. These are personal decisions, personal
0:55:29 > 0:55:35matters. And so it will just depend on the decisions they take and the
0:55:35 > 0:55:40circumstances as they see them. David Mandel a short time ago at
0:55:40 > 0:55:47Holyrood after giving evidence. Sympathy for Michael Fallon but
0:55:47 > 0:55:50intriguing remark, it is up to others to take the personal
0:55:50 > 0:55:53decision, I suppose he is reflecting on what the Prime Minister said that
0:55:53 > 0:55:57people must look at their conduct and decide what to do.This is
0:55:57 > 0:56:01interesting, it is Michael Fallon's resignation the start as Ruth
0:56:01 > 0:56:07Davidson put of the dam opening and a clear out of sexist dinosaurs from
0:56:07 > 0:56:10the Government? We will see Minister after Minister falling over the next
0:56:10 > 0:56:15week's and months, or is this more of an isolated incident, something
0:56:15 > 0:56:18that could be absorbed and the Government can carry on? That is
0:56:18 > 0:56:24what we are all waiting to see over the next 48 hours.Waiting to see
0:56:24 > 0:56:27whether there is more, Elisabeth?It is certainly a possibility and this
0:56:27 > 0:56:33could not come at a worse time for Theresa May and there have been a
0:56:33 > 0:56:36lot of commentators since Gavin Williamson was named talking about
0:56:36 > 0:56:39if you have the person who is in charge of getting your party in
0:56:39 > 0:56:46line. The Chief Whip. It diminishes her parity and it shows how weak she
0:56:46 > 0:56:53is. This is a terrible moment for this to happen.And it had to be
0:56:53 > 0:56:59Michael Fallon, the one that has backed her and is not apparently
0:56:59 > 0:57:05pursuing a personal agenda and who has backed her, one of the few in
0:57:05 > 0:57:10the Cabinet who supports the Prime Minister.It is dreadful for her on
0:57:10 > 0:57:15a personal level. And we will see what impact it has. More infighting?
0:57:15 > 0:57:21Who knows?In terms of Holyrood, Nicola Sturgeon expressing a wish it
0:57:21 > 0:57:25is up to individuals and the Presiding Officer stressing there
0:57:25 > 0:57:29are no complaints currently. But the point being made this could be a
0:57:29 > 0:57:36turning point in political environment is generally.Well, to
0:57:36 > 0:57:40be fair to Holyrood, what we have not seen here that we have seen
0:57:40 > 0:57:42Westminster, we have not seen specific allegations against
0:57:42 > 0:57:48individuals. To back up the accusation that there is basically a
0:57:48 > 0:57:53climate of sexism, there have been dozens of accusations and we have
0:57:53 > 0:57:56had a resignation of one of the top Cabinet ministers and we can see
0:57:56 > 0:58:02there is a problem. There have obviously been accusations there is
0:58:02 > 0:58:07the same culture here but what we have not seen yet the specific
0:58:07 > 0:58:11allegations and accusations against people. There are investigations
0:58:11 > 0:58:22under way, but the temperature here may sort of lower unless there are
0:58:22 > 0:58:26specific allegations coming forward in the next few days.We just don't
0:58:26 > 0:58:29know. Thank you both very much indeed for joining me. We were able
0:58:29 > 0:58:35to bring you information about the discussion over the nature of the
0:58:35 > 0:58:39political environment and the News on air an increase interest rates
0:58:39 > 0:58:42which is a huge development, a small increase but a huge development, and
0:58:42 > 0:58:49we will bring you more throughout the day everywhere on the subject of
0:58:49 > 0:58:52taxation. Bromley Brian Taylor, from the Scottish polymers, Holyrood,
0:58:52 > 0:58:54goodbye.