:00:18. > :00:19.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland.
:00:20. > :00:24.The State Opening of Parliament - the UK Government unveils
:00:25. > :00:32.its new legislative programme in a critical year for Scotland.
:00:33. > :00:37.My government will continue to implement new financial powers for
:00:38. > :00:52.the Scottish Parliament. It will make the case for Scotland to remain
:00:53. > :00:54.as part of the United Kingdom. At Westminster we will consider whether
:00:55. > :01:02.this is a game-changer for Scotland. A new session of Parliament
:01:03. > :01:07.has started at Westminster. The Queen made her way to
:01:08. > :01:10.the throne in the House of Lords to Pensions took centre stage in
:01:11. > :01:14.an 11-bill programme, with changes Voters will also get limited powers
:01:15. > :01:21.to remove misbehaving MPs, and as we saw, Her Majesty
:01:22. > :01:25.reiterated her Government would continue to make the case
:01:26. > :01:28.for Scotland to remain in the UK. Let's now take a look at some
:01:29. > :01:44.of the speech. My lords and members of the House of
:01:45. > :01:48.Commons, my government's legislative programme will deliver on its
:01:49. > :01:54.long-term plan to build a stronger economy and a fever society. To
:01:55. > :01:59.strengthen the economy and provide stability and security our ministers
:02:00. > :02:07.will reduce the deficit for the country and ensure that interest
:02:08. > :02:11.rates remain low. An updated charter for budget responsibility will be
:02:12. > :02:17.brought forward is to ensure that future governments spend taxpayers
:02:18. > :02:23.money responsibly. My government will continue to cut taxes in order
:02:24. > :02:29.to increase people's financial security. My ministers will
:02:30. > :02:36.implement measures to increase father the personal allowance and to
:02:37. > :02:41.freeze fuel duty. A key priority for my ministers will be to continue to
:02:42. > :02:47.build an economy that rewards those who work hard. Legislation will be
:02:48. > :02:53.brought forward to give those who have saved this correction over the
:02:54. > :02:59.use of their retirement funds. My government's pension reforms will
:03:00. > :03:04.also allow the innovation and the private pensions market is to give
:03:05. > :03:15.greater control to employees, extend the isa and premium Bond schemes and
:03:16. > :03:18.abolish the 10p tax treat. -- rake. We will ensure that public
:03:19. > :03:24.expenditure continues to be controlled. Bolasie 's will be
:03:25. > :03:31.pursued so that people are helped from the welfare to work. My
:03:32. > :03:35.ministers will introduce legislation for all Members of Parliament. My
:03:36. > :03:40.government will continue to implement new financial powers at
:03:41. > :03:47.the Scottish Parliament and make the case for Scotland to remain a part
:03:48. > :03:52.of the United Kingdom. My ministers will continue with legislation
:03:53. > :03:55.enabling the National Assembly for Wales and Welsh ministers to have
:03:56. > :04:02.more powers over taxation and investment. My government will work
:04:03. > :04:06.to promote reform of the European Union, including a stronger role for
:04:07. > :04:13.member states of national parliaments. My ministers will
:04:14. > :04:22.champion efforts to secure a global agreement on climate change.
:04:23. > :04:24.Our Westminster correspondent David Porter is standing by
:04:25. > :04:28.David, Labour have criticised this as the Zombie Parliament,
:04:29. > :04:30.Dennis Skinner shouted out in the House of Commons this was
:04:31. > :04:44.Well, it is traditional, let us deal with Dennis Skinner firstly, when
:04:45. > :04:53.the Black Rod comes to summon the MPs, this year talking about the
:04:54. > :04:59.last stand of the collagen, that was his phrase, looking as we are
:05:00. > :05:01.towards a general election in less than one year came, many are looking
:05:02. > :05:05.at Westminster and are surprised that the coalition has lasted this
:05:06. > :05:10.long. Those at the top of the coalition have said it will last
:05:11. > :05:14.until the general election. As to when the government will respond to
:05:15. > :05:22.it being a zombie parliament, they will not judge the Queen's Speech by
:05:23. > :05:27.its quality -- it's Qualcomm -- its quantity but by its quantity. They
:05:28. > :05:33.have pointed out that when criticised, it is not all about
:05:34. > :05:37.legislating, the role of parliament, the role of the government and the
:05:38. > :05:42.executive is not just to legislate but to run in Great Britain plc and
:05:43. > :05:47.if they need to legislate in an emergency, they will do that. Just
:05:48. > :05:51.because there are not a lot of rules laid down, do not think they will be
:05:52. > :05:56.sitting with their feet on their desks, they say they will be working
:05:57. > :06:01.hard. David, you have been speaking to ministers and their advisors,
:06:02. > :06:06.what are you picking up, what are the proud about, what are the
:06:07. > :06:09.standout bills and policies? Something they will want to major on
:06:10. > :06:14.over the next few days and weeks, they see this as a Queen's Speech
:06:15. > :06:18.that will help firms, families and give fairness to those who want to
:06:19. > :06:23.get on and they are pointing towards important changes to pensions. They
:06:24. > :06:27.say that will literally affecting millions of people throughout the
:06:28. > :06:32.United Kingdom. They are looking at putting up extra subsidies for
:06:33. > :06:38.childcare and they say that will benefit 160,000 families in Scotland
:06:39. > :06:42.but they are also saying that if you look at the infrastructure, they are
:06:43. > :06:48.willing to go ahead with the proposals on the oil industry. They
:06:49. > :06:52.say they want to go ahead and put forward the policies of the wood
:06:53. > :06:59.commission. There is a bill coming forward to recall MPs as they do
:07:00. > :07:05.something wrong that they could be recalled by constituents, saying
:07:06. > :07:10.that they want to get rid of their MPs. They are floating the idea that
:07:11. > :07:14.that could in some shape or form be extended to Scotland in terms of
:07:15. > :07:18.Hollywood being invited to look at a similar bill and perhaps pass
:07:19. > :07:24.similar legislation so if there was a case that an MSP was found to be
:07:25. > :07:27.doing something wrong, there would be re-dress and recall on that
:07:28. > :07:33.issue. Thank you, David, back with you shortly.
:07:34. > :07:36.I'm joined for the duration of the programme by our commentator
:07:37. > :07:50.You have been looking at the Queen's Speech, what stands out for you?
:07:51. > :07:52.There were big measures announced in the Budget, particularly about the
:07:53. > :08:02.fact that pensioners would no longer have to buy an annuity. They would
:08:03. > :08:06.be able to spend the money and other ways and spend it earlier so there
:08:07. > :08:13.was a lot of debate about pensioners going out and buying flash cards or
:08:14. > :08:21.luxury yachts, whatever! This is taking things a bit further. With
:08:22. > :08:31.the closure of so many occupational salary schemes, many people have
:08:32. > :08:35.been invited to save two less profitable schemes through their
:08:36. > :08:39.employers and now there is talk where people are saving from
:08:40. > :08:42.themselves -- for themselves and putting money into personal pension
:08:43. > :08:46.pots and that they might do it in a different way, not just as
:08:47. > :08:50.individuals, they are then at the prey of the market and high fees,
:08:51. > :08:54.but they would instead join collective rules of savings, it
:08:55. > :09:01.happens on the continent in places like Holland. There is some merit in
:09:02. > :09:05.having the cloud of a lot of people saving for their old age and seeding
:09:06. > :09:11.into the same pool of money and then they can come and better fees from
:09:12. > :09:15.investment companies in the marketplace and potentially produce
:09:16. > :09:23.better returns. That is what this second piece of information that has
:09:24. > :09:27.come out in the Queen's Speech today about this pooled vehicle for
:09:28. > :09:31.pension savers, whether it will work or not and how quickly it works, you
:09:32. > :09:37.know, pensions are things that change very slowly over many, many
:09:38. > :09:42.decades. Individual lives we are talking about. It will take time to
:09:43. > :09:45.know whether it will deliver the kind of financial security and old
:09:46. > :09:53.age that all people crave as they get older. What you make of the
:09:54. > :09:58.accusations of a Zombie Government and the Queen's Speech before the
:09:59. > :10:05.election? I suppose now Government has the full steam head just before
:10:06. > :10:10.a general election, but there seems to be fewer bills compared to 2009.
:10:11. > :10:15.We always get this talk before the next election, particularly in the
:10:16. > :10:20.days when it was not a fixed date, there was always talk about the
:10:21. > :10:25.manoeuvring about when the date as and when the right time to go as and
:10:26. > :10:30.so the legislative programme took a back seat. This time the focus is
:10:31. > :10:33.slightly different because they have the quality and, it has had problems
:10:34. > :10:38.recently and there have been tensions, even tensions within each
:10:39. > :10:44.side of it, we witnessed the road between Theresa May and Michael Gove
:10:45. > :10:50.between schooling and Birmingham. You get that kind of tension and at
:10:51. > :10:54.the end of the parliament you will think they will do less, but they
:10:55. > :11:03.have been doing less, MPs and peers have been on holiday for months as
:11:04. > :11:07.far as I can tell. Someone said they were not being called down because
:11:08. > :11:10.they are no longer needed at the moment, so it has been slow anyway
:11:11. > :11:16.and whether these 11 bills are of such substance that will mean they
:11:17. > :11:19.are beavering away until the next deadline until the next general
:11:20. > :11:25.election, I would rather doubt that to be the case. Five end parliaments
:11:26. > :11:31.tend to have a fag end legislation is. You mentioned the quality on. Do
:11:32. > :11:36.you think there is a deadlock that they cannot agree on to get through?
:11:37. > :11:42.The Labour Party said there was nothing on immigration. Yes, there
:11:43. > :11:46.was no bill to give us the promised referendum on Europe apparently
:11:47. > :11:52.because of a Lib Dem opposition to that. There was a lot of talk, was
:11:53. > :11:55.there not, that some months before there would be a quiet parting of
:11:56. > :12:00.the waves, how that would have worked I do not know, but I think
:12:01. > :12:05.they have sort of settled for staggering on to the end and then
:12:06. > :12:11.going into competition with the election when it comes. Thank you
:12:12. > :12:18.very much for the moment. Let us go back to David at Westminster who has
:12:19. > :12:20.been joined by a guest. I am joined by the Secretary of
:12:21. > :12:25.State for Scotland Alistair Carmichael. The obvious question
:12:26. > :12:30.will be what is in this Queen's Speech for Scotland? Four years ago
:12:31. > :12:36.at a call Ishant government we undertook the massive task of
:12:37. > :12:41.reconstructing and rebalancing our economy, we are now about one year
:12:42. > :12:44.away from facing the electorate and explaining the decisions that we
:12:45. > :12:49.have made and we will explain them to the people of Scotland are to be
:12:50. > :12:53.arguing so across the United Kingdom. In 2010 we had to take on
:12:54. > :12:57.difficult and unpopular decisions but they have worked. And the
:12:58. > :13:01.Queen's Speech today we have a government that is getting on with
:13:02. > :13:05.the job of rebuilding and rebalancing the economy, helping to
:13:06. > :13:11.get people into work, more help for small businesses to get access to
:13:12. > :13:15.finance and help for people who are in work to make sure that they get
:13:16. > :13:19.more of the money that they earn. Some would say that the call Ishant
:13:20. > :13:24.is now treading water, they know there will be an election in less
:13:25. > :13:30.than one year time, the big chunky legislation, it is not visible. We
:13:31. > :13:37.have a session that is starting in June and will run until the end of
:13:38. > :13:40.March, yes, it is a shorter near -- year than you would expect, but
:13:41. > :13:45.there have been many significant changes and long-term changes to the
:13:46. > :13:51.way in which we organise our private pensions and the future. That was a
:13:52. > :13:55.significant long-term reform and also things like the Modern Slavery
:13:56. > :13:59.Bill, not at the top of everyone's priority, but in terms of protecting
:14:00. > :14:06.some of the most vulnerable people who come to this country, very, very
:14:07. > :14:10.important legislation. Is it not a case that if there is anything
:14:11. > :14:14.controversial, June time wise you will not be able to get it through,
:14:15. > :14:20.you can get it through the Commons but the House of Lords, if they dig
:14:21. > :14:25.their heels in, you will be stopped. If you are a small business and you
:14:26. > :14:31.are looking for help to get finance to get people to take on more people
:14:32. > :14:35.to create the tax system and public services that we all need and value,
:14:36. > :14:38.the measures in the Queen's Speech are presents to help small
:14:39. > :14:44.businesses get that access to finance and they are very important.
:14:45. > :14:48.They may not be controversial but they are important and will make a
:14:49. > :14:52.difference to the calculation is that every family in Scotland has to
:14:53. > :14:56.make every week about how they will make ends meet. The fact that they
:14:57. > :15:01.are not paying as much money in income tax and the fact that it was
:15:02. > :15:04.confirmed today that the freeze on fuel duty will continue for the rest
:15:05. > :15:08.of the parliament, these are important decisions that have
:15:09. > :15:13.impacts on everyone's legs. The infrastructure built, you are giving
:15:14. > :15:22.a commitment basically to see we agree with what Sir John would set?
:15:23. > :15:27.Yes, Sir Ian Wood, his policies are going to be implemented, that will
:15:28. > :15:32.be an early piece of legislation and that will come on track and is
:15:33. > :15:36.important because the oil and gas industry in the North Sea becomes an
:15:37. > :15:39.even more mature asset and so it is important that we have a way to get
:15:40. > :15:43.more out of the North Sea, the people who are best ways to do that
:15:44. > :15:49.are the oil and gas industry themselves. They came up with the
:15:50. > :15:55.proposals that informed us all and it will be implemented under a new
:15:56. > :16:32.regulator. For Scotland that is an important piece of legislation.
:16:33. > :16:37.If the Scottish parliament and government decide they want to do
:16:38. > :16:42.things differently, that is their right and that is the whole point of
:16:43. > :16:47.this -- devolution and it will be respected. There is a real call to
:16:48. > :16:55.parliament if it is seen that they are all they have transgressed --
:16:56. > :17:03.recall. I have written this morning to the leaders of the Scottish
:17:04. > :17:08.parties in the Scottish Parliament outlining the fact we have this
:17:09. > :17:12.measure in the Queen's speech and legislation will come forward. If
:17:13. > :17:17.they are able to reach a consensus about what they would want to do
:17:18. > :17:22.with the Scottish parliament so that the sort of situation we had a few
:17:23. > :17:28.months ago when an SNP member was on trial and was convicted of serious
:17:29. > :17:35.offences in court, so that he could be dealt with by the Scottish
:17:36. > :17:38.Parliament authorities, then then if they can reach a consensus we will
:17:39. > :17:44.implement that in this legislation. It is an opportunity for them as it
:17:45. > :17:48.is for the House of Commons. It was mentioned in the Queens speech that
:17:49. > :17:53.the UK government wants to see Scotland remain part of the union.
:17:54. > :17:57.It would be naive to think this Queen 's speech will not be seen
:17:58. > :18:02.through the referendum prism, wouldn't it? It is an important
:18:03. > :18:03.consideration and it is absolutely right it
:18:04. > :18:07.consideration and it is absolutely should be in there, not just because
:18:08. > :18:12.the UK government wants the UK to continue, but also to remind people
:18:13. > :18:17.that there is already more devolution coming down the road. As
:18:18. > :18:22.of next year, the Scottish parliament will have increased tax
:18:23. > :18:27.powers and borrowing powers and the year after, they will have this
:18:28. > :18:33.opportunity to legislate for income tax. That is work in progress and
:18:34. > :18:38.devolution that is guaranteed. Thank you for joining us. I know you have
:18:39. > :18:40.to get back into the house of commons. Back to you.
:18:41. > :18:46.Thank you. Let's get some political reaction at
:18:47. > :18:51.Holyrood to some of today's top political stories. I'm joined by the
:18:52. > :18:54.Conservative MSP and peer Baroness Goldie and from the SNP we have
:18:55. > :19:07.Jamie Hepburn. Let us pick up on the report from
:19:08. > :19:11.the IFS suggesting independent Scotland would face higher taxes and
:19:12. > :19:16.bigger spending cuts than previously expected if it is to balance the
:19:17. > :19:21.books. Not good news for you if there is a budget deficit of 5.5% of
:19:22. > :19:27.GDP compared to the UK is a budget deficit of 5.5% of GDP compared to
:19:28. > :19:31.the UK's 2.4%? We should put this in context. It points out that in the
:19:32. > :19:35.first year of independence, our fiscal position would be equivalent
:19:36. > :19:44.to the UK's fiscal position. We have already been here with the IFS. They
:19:45. > :19:50.published reports and this one looks 50 years hence. There is difficulty
:19:51. > :19:54.with forecasting five years hence. We have seen that previously with
:19:55. > :19:58.the Office for Budget Responsibility. This report
:19:59. > :20:06.criticises their forecast. The four idea that you can look 50 years
:20:07. > :20:11.hence you somewhat fantastic. I don't think anyone would think that
:20:12. > :20:15.is possible. But they are not looking that far ahead, are they?
:20:16. > :20:20.They have updated some of their figures from the latest oil and gas
:20:21. > :20:25.predictions and they don't look that great for you. We talked last week
:20:26. > :20:32.about eight lakh hole in spending because of reduced revenue from oil
:20:33. > :20:36.and gas and the IFS have done their sons on the Scottish White Paper on
:20:37. > :20:42.independence and they have found black holes there. Do you have to
:20:43. > :20:48.raise taxes and cut spending in an independent Scotland? In terms of
:20:49. > :20:52.oil and gas, they draw heavily on the Office for Budget Responsibility
:20:53. > :20:58.who had a pessimistic view of future oil and gas. I had the Secretary of
:20:59. > :21:04.State saying the future for oil and gas and the best people to rely on
:21:05. > :21:12.our the industry figures themselves and they have a much more optimistic
:21:13. > :21:16.forecast. We know the measures are set out in page 78 and 79 of
:21:17. > :21:21.Scotland's future so we know the measures are set out there and the
:21:22. > :21:28.forecast and costs are there for everyone to see. We had there the
:21:29. > :21:32.figures. It sounds like the IFS are taking a vaguely -- very negative
:21:33. > :21:37.figures when there are more positive figures available. I am struck with
:21:38. > :21:42.a reference to the White Paper which I was looking at before I came on
:21:43. > :21:50.air. This is the difficulty for the yes campaign. The projection was a
:21:51. > :21:58.deficit for the first year of independence. We all estimated they
:21:59. > :22:02.had overestimated income and underestimated expenditure. The
:22:03. > :22:06.Scottish government produced its own oil and gas bulletin and it revised
:22:07. > :22:13.its own projections for income from the North Sea, it reduced them. It
:22:14. > :22:17.also said there are items of expenditure not in the White Paper
:22:18. > :22:23.analysis. We haven't had them quantified but there are items of
:22:24. > :22:28.expenditure not in the White Paper so Jamie cannot get away with saying
:22:29. > :22:32.that all is tickety-boo in the economic garden of the yes campaign.
:22:33. > :22:39.Today is when the house of cards begin to fall down because the IFS
:22:40. > :22:43.is respected internationally and at Westminster and with the Scottish
:22:44. > :22:47.government. It is not in the business of flinging figures into
:22:48. > :22:51.the fresh air just to grab attention. When it says there will
:22:52. > :22:57.be an 8.6 billion deficit in the first year of independence, that
:22:58. > :23:00.equates to ?1600 worth of deficit per head of population. If you look
:23:01. > :23:04.at what Mr per head of population. If you look
:23:05. > :23:07.Hepburn was saying about the different figures and more positive
:23:08. > :23:13.figures when it comes to revenue from the North Sea, you can look at
:23:14. > :23:22.your figures and pick your side in a way. Maybe it comes down to who do
:23:23. > :23:27.you believe? No, it comes down to what seems to be a reasonable
:23:28. > :23:31.treatment of figures and a reasonable approach. What is
:23:32. > :23:39.worrying people is the yes campaign is taking the best projection in oil
:23:40. > :23:43.he -- yields, not midpoint. They are minimising expenditure and not
:23:44. > :23:46.taking a carefully estimated expenditure figure, which if it was
:23:47. > :23:53.not as much with that, would help us. It is the opposite. For that
:23:54. > :23:56.reason people are troubled. It is not the first independent body to
:23:57. > :24:02.cast doubt on the independence argument. The figures as they stand
:24:03. > :24:09.mean we will face public expenditure cuts or both. On the Strathclyde
:24:10. > :24:15.commission, we heard that Scotland should be heard -- given full income
:24:16. > :24:19.tax powers following a vote for independence. Mr Hepburn, it sounds
:24:20. > :24:25.like the pro-union parties have built up a head of steam in more
:24:26. > :24:31.powers for the parliament. Where does it leave the yes campaign? I
:24:32. > :24:39.don't buy it. Earlier we had Ben Thompson who is a great advocate of
:24:40. > :24:44.further devolution and he is not advocating independence as I and
:24:45. > :24:48.others are. He agreed there is no guarantee in the context of a no
:24:49. > :24:58.vote. We can expect to see further demolition. We have had other
:24:59. > :25:03.recommendations for air passenger duty and that was stripped out.
:25:04. > :25:07.Liberal colleagues and the Conservatives had the chance to pass
:25:08. > :25:14.minimal tax and they still had the chance to do it and the paper makes
:25:15. > :25:18.the point that you don't even need new legislation to pass that taxon.
:25:19. > :25:26.In the Guardian newspaper yesterday, Ruth Davidson was
:25:27. > :25:35.apparently unable to talk about that. Let us put that to Baroness
:25:36. > :25:39.Golding. Hearing from Mr Hepburn and there. Different offers from the
:25:40. > :25:46.different pro-union parties. Hard to come to any agreement on what might
:25:47. > :25:50.be offered and a litany of broken promises perhaps? Jamie is a brave
:25:51. > :25:57.laddie. He normally puts the best face he can on this. The publication
:25:58. > :26:02.of the Strathclyde commission shocked the nationalist fox. There
:26:03. > :26:08.is a clear chance for voters in September. Many of those inclined to
:26:09. > :26:12.support independence don't deny there are benefits for the UK. They
:26:13. > :26:17.can have the benefits of that, including the pound, but they can
:26:18. > :26:25.also have a much more powerful Scottish Parliament. I would just
:26:26. > :26:28.say by way of illustration, it was a conservative led coalition who
:26:29. > :26:33.delivered the Scotland act of 2012 and that same prime minister and his
:26:34. > :26:39.Chancellor both said they believed the Strathclyde permission --
:26:40. > :26:42.commission proposals in relation to income tax, they would implement
:26:43. > :26:46.those and labour have a clear programme of what they want to do
:26:47. > :27:01.and so have the Lib Dems. There is no question that if you vote "no, --
:27:02. > :27:11."no", you vote... You are voting for no guarantee for further demolition.
:27:12. > :27:14.Vote yes which means... We will have to stop you there.
:27:15. > :27:20.Now to the debate live in the chamber at Holyrood this afternoon.
:27:21. > :27:24.MSPs will be debating a controversial report from the
:27:25. > :27:27.parliament's European Committee on Scotland's relationship with the EU.
:27:28. > :27:30.Pro-union members have issued a minority report claiming
:27:31. > :27:33.criticism of the Scottish government has been watered down.
:27:34. > :27:36.The committee convener has had her say.
:27:37. > :27:59.Let's hear from the Scottish government's Fiona Hyslop.
:28:00. > :28:07.The member makes the point that there is no provision under the
:28:08. > :28:12.European Union currently for citizens who are members to leave
:28:13. > :28:20.that. In terms of the arguments being made, it makes common sense
:28:21. > :28:25.that in terms of the stability and the continuity, that the proposals
:28:26. > :28:30.we set out to do with continuity of effect makes sense from everyone's
:28:31. > :28:34.point of view. The enquiry shows that it is not just the supporters
:28:35. > :28:38.of independence who questioned the arguments of how and if it would be
:28:39. > :28:42.possible or desirable for the Scottish people to be left in that
:28:43. > :28:51.situation. The balance of evidence had by the committee accepted that
:28:52. > :28:58.Scotland would continue as an EU member post independence. Even David
:28:59. > :29:02.Martin, Labour 's most senior MEP and Iain Duncan who has recently
:29:03. > :29:11.been elected as a Conservative MEP for Scotland have recently
:29:12. > :29:17.acknowledged that an independent Scotland would be welcomed as an EU
:29:18. > :29:21.member. Not a single witness to the committee considered Scotland cast
:29:22. > :29:27.doubt would be desirable. A hiatus in a membership was described in the
:29:28. > :29:32.report as absurd. It would breach the rights of Scots and citizens of
:29:33. > :29:41.other member states. It is clearly in everyone's interests for the
:29:42. > :29:46.timetabled to be met and we are confident -- we are confident that
:29:47. > :29:54.this is the most pragmatic way of doing this. The honorary director
:29:55. > :30:00.general has recognised our time frame as realistic. I recommend a
:30:01. > :30:03.recent European policy Centre publication which highlights the EU
:30:04. > :30:10.will look at the case of Scottish independence in a flexible and
:30:11. > :30:12.pragmatic way. She has not addressed the terms of
:30:13. > :30:15.pragmatic way. She has not addressed the terms membership of an
:30:16. > :30:22.independent Scotland. Could she address them, please? I'm glad the
:30:23. > :30:24.member recognises the continuity and membership was the right way forward
:30:25. > :30:31.within the timetable. The issue becomes the terms of the negotiation
:30:32. > :30:35.and budget. That is why the continuity of effect is satisfactory
:30:36. > :30:39.for the rest of the UK and other members, bearing in mind the budget
:30:40. > :30:45.will be in operation for a number of years and it has been negotiated
:30:46. > :30:49.closely over the recent period. Continuity of effect is an important
:30:50. > :30:54.part of the process, not just for Scotland but for other members.
:30:55. > :31:02.Members also heard from Irish colleagues and they provided
:31:03. > :31:07.examples of the successes there in budgetary talks. Of course, remember
:31:08. > :31:20.that Scotland receives the low which Irish -- lowest average payment per
:31:21. > :31:27.member. Ireland also successfully enhanced its key priorities in what
:31:28. > :31:33.was an internationally acclaimed presidency of the council. Ireland
:31:34. > :31:38.has dedicated significant time and resource into building
:31:39. > :31:44.relationship. The nature of decision-making regardless of member
:31:45. > :31:52.states size, Asus 's shift to the different system of voting means
:31:53. > :31:59.that at least 55% of member states are required for qualified majority
:32:00. > :32:02.in the council. The voting procedures are more likely to
:32:03. > :32:12.protect advantages enjoyed by smaller states.
:32:13. > :32:21.Let us speak to Alf Young once again. Alf, let us go back to the
:32:22. > :32:28.chat with the MSP s there. And the IFS row report. What did you make of
:32:29. > :32:33.it. There have been successions of reports and what can we make of all
:32:34. > :32:40.these numbers? The starting point is that forecasting any numbers from
:32:41. > :32:47.today is fraught with difficulty. You get an estimate. When Mr Hepburn
:32:48. > :32:52.was saying trying to forecast what Scotland's deficit would be in 2017
:32:53. > :32:56.was so far ahead it would be meaningless... A couple of weeks
:32:57. > :33:02.ago, when Alex Salmond and Dudley Alexander were trading economic
:33:03. > :33:07.futures, one questioning the cost of setting up a separate state and the
:33:08. > :33:12.other painting a picture of a much more prosperous Scotland, we were
:33:13. > :33:18.talking about things happening up to 2030. They are all at it in that
:33:19. > :33:21.sense in terms of forecasting a future that is inherently
:33:22. > :33:28.unknowable. Some of the things, because they take a rounded picture,
:33:29. > :33:33.some of the things the IFS are not comfortable for one side or the
:33:34. > :33:40.other. In their assessment, they talk about all sides of the picture.
:33:41. > :33:46.There has been a lot of pitch from the "yes" side had the Scots pay
:33:47. > :33:50.more in tax. I had someone interviewed earlier today who said
:33:51. > :33:55.that is true, but the bit of the picture that is dropped out of that
:33:56. > :34:00.story is that they get more back than the average English taxpayer in
:34:01. > :34:05.terms of services. The more they get back is greater than the tax they
:34:06. > :34:09.pay, if you include Scotland's share of North Sea oil so you can play
:34:10. > :34:13.these games for ever. What does it do to the vast majority of the
:34:14. > :34:18.voting public? I think it leaves them confused and concerned and a
:34:19. > :34:23.bit turned off because we have been talking about this for the best part
:34:24. > :34:28.of three years and still nearly four months to go. I wonder whether the
:34:29. > :34:32.consequence might be that the turnout will not be as high as
:34:33. > :34:37.everyone says it will be and that a lot of people, given there is so
:34:38. > :34:41.much confusion, when it gets to the point of voting, they might not vote
:34:42. > :34:48.at all might float in ways that is not expected by anyone.
:34:49. > :34:52.Thank you. Let us get back into the chamber again and listen to the
:34:53. > :35:00.European debate once more. Labour is now speaking.
:35:01. > :35:05.The evidence showed that nothing is certain. Most witnesses believe that
:35:06. > :35:11.Article 49 remains the most likely route towards EU membership and that
:35:12. > :35:15.any negotiations will be tough. The timescale for those negotiations are
:35:16. > :35:21.set out by the Scottish government remains highly optimistic at best.
:35:22. > :35:24.It is clear there would need to be amendments to all relevant treaties
:35:25. > :35:32.of the EU and that these would need to be agreed unanimously by all 28
:35:33. > :35:37.member states. What is it that will be up for negotiation? The report
:35:38. > :35:41.highlights some of the important areas such as the single currency
:35:42. > :35:47.opt out. It may be that we would have to commit to joining the euro
:35:48. > :35:51.at the point of entry or a later time. Given the Scottish government
:35:52. > :35:54.is all over the place on the currency and that it would not an
:35:55. > :35:58.independent an independent Scotland's best interest to keep the
:35:59. > :36:05.pound, with no say over interest rates, the money supply, targets,
:36:06. > :36:13.perhaps the euro is the Nationalist plan B. Whether it is the Schengen
:36:14. > :36:17.opt out for justice and security measures or the rebate itself which
:36:18. > :36:24.would have major financial implications for the people of
:36:25. > :36:28.Scotland, on all these matters, tough negotiations would be needed
:36:29. > :36:32.and nationalist ministers still insist they would be no compromise.
:36:33. > :36:41.That is not the view shared by the many experts who gave evidence to
:36:42. > :36:45.the committee as the report shows. One QC stated that an independent
:36:46. > :36:52.Scotland might not in Herriot all the benefits that have been carried
:36:53. > :36:57.out but half of the UK as a whole -- might not inherit. The director of
:36:58. > :37:03.the law centre said that the fundamental flaw in the White Paper
:37:04. > :37:06.is that it fails to acknowledge EU membership of an independent
:37:07. > :37:09.Scotland would require the agreement of the EU institution of member
:37:10. > :37:31.states. They may decide not to offer probable and foreseeable outcome of
:37:32. > :37:35.successful negotiations. I could continue to quote from many more
:37:36. > :37:41.experts in this field, all of whom say negotiations with the EU would
:37:42. > :37:46.be tough. Are they all wrong? If your definition of wrong is that you
:37:47. > :37:49.disagree with the wisdom of Mr Salmond and missed sturgeon, I
:37:50. > :37:55.suppose they are wrong. There is far too much at stake from all these
:37:56. > :37:58.questions and issues to be passed aside by nationalists set upon
:37:59. > :38:03.independence at any cost. We know that there would be major concerns
:38:04. > :38:08.around the pensions of thousands of Scots duo to EU rules on a
:38:09. > :38:13.cross-border pensions but again, important issues such as these are
:38:14. > :38:17.simply brushed aside. We will leave that debate for the moment and let
:38:18. > :38:20.us return to the top story, the Queen's Speech at Westminster, let
:38:21. > :38:26.us head back to David Porter who is at College Green. It may not have
:38:27. > :38:32.rained on the Queen and parade but it is raining now. That is why we
:38:33. > :38:40.have moved out of a nice BBC gets able on college green and Johnny May
:38:41. > :38:46.on this day is Angus Robinson from the SNP and Margaret Curran for
:38:47. > :38:52.Labour. This is an obvious question to you and any opposition
:38:53. > :38:56.politician, what does this Queen's Speech not deliver for Scotland that
:38:57. > :39:02.it should have done? It shows that it has ran out of ideas and that
:39:03. > :39:07.Scottish people are again being let down by two failing governments.
:39:08. > :39:10.They are not doing the things that matter, this government is not
:39:11. > :39:15.moving forward with issues that concern Scots. We need action on the
:39:16. > :39:18.cost of living, freezing energy prices, attacking a banker's
:39:19. > :39:22.bonuses, more powers for the Scottish Government, we will get
:39:23. > :39:30.that within one year from the Labour Party. Big reform on pensions and
:39:31. > :39:33.they say they are increasing subsidies for childcare, the
:39:34. > :39:40.government would argue those are big issues, they would argue that they
:39:41. > :39:43.are going to adopt the wood report and they would see they are
:39:44. > :39:47.significant factors for the whole of the UK and especially people living
:39:48. > :39:53.in Scotland. It does not go far enough. They are long-term issues,
:39:54. > :39:56.we need action now to tackle the issues that families and businesses
:39:57. > :40:00.faced throughout Scotland. People are really struggling and worrying
:40:01. > :40:04.about the futures of their families. They want action from their
:40:05. > :40:08.government now and I believe that the Labour Party had a clear policy
:40:09. > :40:12.programme of the action needed. We know there is strong support for
:40:13. > :40:16.freezing energy prices across Scotland and now there is strong
:40:17. > :40:20.support to tax banker's bonuses father and we need a government to
:40:21. > :40:25.do that and get real change and answer the issues that people are
:40:26. > :40:29.concerned about, not politicians speak, not talking about things that
:40:30. > :40:32.may or may not happen in the future, things that are needed now and the
:40:33. > :40:37.Labour Party would do that if we were elected. I suspect, Angus
:40:38. > :40:43.Robertson, you would be in agreement that this means beach was not good
:40:44. > :40:49.enough. Absolutely, I agree with Margaret on that. From the two
:40:50. > :40:52.parties in coalition, they have said that they want to improve the
:40:53. > :40:57.government in Scotland and improve the quality of life to people living
:40:58. > :41:01.in Scotland, to economic growth and the jobs market, but where is it?
:41:02. > :41:05.This is the Queen's Speech, where legislation is meant to be brought
:41:06. > :41:12.forward, Margaret is correct, action now, where is it? Zombie Parliament,
:41:13. > :41:17.absolutely right, what is going on? There is time and opportunity to
:41:18. > :41:20.discuss legislation that would move decision-making powers from London
:41:21. > :41:26.to Edinburgh and make a difference to people's legs. There is one thing
:41:27. > :41:29.that people have not even been legislated at all, things that would
:41:30. > :41:34.make a huge difference to people like Air Passenger Duty, that was
:41:35. > :41:38.not even mentioned. The Westminster parties are totally incapable of
:41:39. > :41:41.realising that 2014 it's a historical year for Scotland and
:41:42. > :41:45.people want to see what is being proposed. They had an opportunity
:41:46. > :41:51.today and they dropped the ball. There will be no proposals at all
:41:52. > :41:55.that will help anyone in Scotland. It is not giving decision-making
:41:56. > :41:58.powers to Edinburgh so that we can make better decisions closer to
:41:59. > :42:03.home. They had the opportunity and they have blown it. The Queen
:42:04. > :42:07.acknowledged the historical year for Scotland and her speech and said
:42:08. > :42:15.that she and her government, she was obviously a speech written her --
:42:16. > :42:22.for her by the government, she was not ducking the issue. The Scottish
:42:23. > :42:24.Government is in favour of independence, it is the call is the
:42:25. > :42:29.quality and who had an opportunity to bring forward proposals. These
:42:30. > :42:34.proposals are not good enough. There is time and opportunity to have
:42:35. > :42:40.brought forward changes. It is a missed opportunity and I think
:42:41. > :42:43.people will be asking if these proposals are made in good faith,
:42:44. > :42:47.why have they not being proposed? They had all the time to put them
:42:48. > :42:52.before Parliament so that we Ganzi the detail and people can then make
:42:53. > :42:55.a decision, why have they put that off? Margaret Curran, the argument
:42:56. > :42:58.is that the Unionist parties will want more power for the Scottish
:42:59. > :43:08.Parliament, why did we not see that on offer today and the Queen's
:43:09. > :43:12.Speech? The parties have passed legislation in this Parliament. I am
:43:13. > :43:16.a great critic of this government but they have given the Scottish
:43:17. > :43:20.Government more powers. The SNP cannot make up their mind but the
:43:21. > :43:25.art in favour of it or not. They keep on changing their minds. But I
:43:26. > :43:28.would agree with Angus and that it was the void of any proposals that
:43:29. > :43:31.will help Scottish people at the moment. They talked about powers but
:43:32. > :43:38.they do not talk about what people do. I would like to ask Angus
:43:39. > :43:41.Robertson and he will join the Labour Party and trying to back the
:43:42. > :43:46.freeze on fuel prices? We have an SNP Government obsessed with
:43:47. > :43:50.independence, they believe it is the answer to everything and I believe
:43:51. > :43:55.that people are fed up with that and they want real policies that will
:43:56. > :44:00.change lives. What a surprise, the Labour Party stands up for the Tory
:44:01. > :44:04.Party and the coalition! Where is the action that we need at the
:44:05. > :44:10.moment coming through? The party and the governments that we did not vote
:44:11. > :44:14.for, they had an opportunity today to bring forward powers and they did
:44:15. > :44:19.not do that. The Labour Party could not even David UKIP and the recent
:44:20. > :44:24.elections, do not lecture me. The SNP are ahead of the liver party in
:44:25. > :44:28.Scotland. The Labour Party are promising jam tomorrow and we should
:44:29. > :44:33.trust them when exactly the same thing has happened in the past and
:44:34. > :44:36.we have been let down? Let us judge governments by what they deliver,
:44:37. > :44:40.the Westminster government had an opportunity to bring forward
:44:41. > :44:43.legislation, I am sorry they have not done so. Margaret decides to
:44:44. > :44:49.defend that, but for me it is not good enough. You are misrepresenting
:44:50. > :44:54.my argument. You are struggling. I am not defending the Conservative
:44:55. > :44:57.government but I am asking whether the SNP would support the call of
:44:58. > :45:03.the river party to freeze energy prices question that you had that
:45:04. > :45:10.opportunity and you did not act. We are fed up in Scotland of people
:45:11. > :45:15.having this kind of talk. We need concrete policies and changes.
:45:16. > :45:18.People watching this will be wondering why someone from a Labour
:45:19. > :45:23.opposition in London rather than attacking the government in power,
:45:24. > :45:28.the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, is choosing the opportunity to
:45:29. > :45:32.simply bash the SNP. Because you are here! That says it all. The Queen's
:45:33. > :45:38.Speech was an opportunity for the quality and to present opportunities
:45:39. > :45:44.and powers to Scotland, they have failed miserably. It is about time
:45:45. > :45:49.that I got a word and edgeways. What about the proposal for becoming MPs,
:45:50. > :45:54.a question to both of you, should there be a similar proposal to
:45:55. > :45:57.recall MPs and the Scottish Parliament? Any working solution
:45:58. > :46:03.that improves governance, that needs to be looked at in detail. As I
:46:04. > :46:06.understand it, that as 10% of the electorate over an eight week
:46:07. > :46:11.period. It is worth looking at, we should not put everything down in a
:46:12. > :46:17.Queen's Speech, there will always be something of merit and we are happy
:46:18. > :46:21.to look at that if it is a workable solution for Scotland. I largely
:46:22. > :46:24.agree with that but we have to understand the frustration of people
:46:25. > :46:29.with the political representatives and how they feel and we must come
:46:30. > :46:32.back to them. If we can get workable solutions, we have to work towards
:46:33. > :46:39.that. I would be open-minded about all options. Margaret Curran and
:46:40. > :46:43.Angus Robertson, thank you very much.
:46:44. > :46:48.On the final question on a very busy day for you, it is a by-election
:46:49. > :46:52.tomorrow and it looks like the Conservatives are the favourites for
:46:53. > :46:58.Newark? That is correct, they have thrown a lot at the kitchen sink. A
:46:59. > :47:02.huge number of Conservative MPs have had to go up there to canvas in the
:47:03. > :47:06.by-election. The bookies have the Tories as favourites to win that
:47:07. > :47:10.one. It will be an important by-election coming after the
:47:11. > :47:15.European and the local elections here in England and which UKIP did
:47:16. > :47:19.very well. This is really a seat which the Conservatives should win,
:47:20. > :47:23.they had a majority of something like 16,000, if they do not win it
:47:24. > :47:27.it will be bad for the Conservatives.
:47:28. > :47:30.Thank you for that, David Porter. A final chat with our commentator for
:47:31. > :47:36.the afternoon, Alf Young, let us pick up with the chat we were having
:47:37. > :47:40.with some of the MSPs there about the Strathclyde Commission that
:47:41. > :47:44.reported earlier in the week, what did you make of that? Where the
:47:45. > :47:50.Conservatives bowled and their proposals? A bold as an appropriate
:47:51. > :47:56.word because if you take where the Conservative Party in Scotland used
:47:57. > :48:00.to be on these issues and not a thing being interested in devolution
:48:01. > :48:04.itself as a concept, the fact that they have got to this stage were
:48:05. > :48:09.Lord Strathclyde has got a proposal where he said that all of the income
:48:10. > :48:12.tax should be controlled from Scotland is very significant and
:48:13. > :48:15.takes the issue much further than the McCalman proposals and herded
:48:16. > :48:25.and that are currently being enacted. It is bold. It means that
:48:26. > :48:29.all three of the Unionist parties have now got proposals for greater
:48:30. > :48:34.fiscal autonomy, not full fiscal autonomy but certainly greater
:48:35. > :48:39.fiscal autonomy for our future devolved Scottish Government. It
:48:40. > :48:44.does change the story. As Anders Robertson demonstrated, the other
:48:45. > :48:48.side and always say yes, you will promise to do it, but will you
:48:49. > :48:54.actually do it? Is it a serious commitment? That is always going to
:48:55. > :48:58.be a difficulty, but, you know, they have moved significantly. The
:48:59. > :49:02.question now and this was coming up through some of the interventions
:49:03. > :49:06.that Gordon Brown has made over the past few days was whether they can
:49:07. > :49:19.get their act together and come up with something that they can share.
:49:20. > :49:24.And propose as a common commitment. do you think the Conservatives were
:49:25. > :49:34.bolder than Labour work? Certainly on income tax. Will the commitment
:49:35. > :49:40.be delivered? That will always be the comeback. That gets us back into
:49:41. > :49:47.the political debate that turned so many voters. Let us head back to
:49:48. > :49:52.where we started the programme and the State opening of Parliament. We
:49:53. > :49:59.started with the pictures there of the nod to the heritage of an
:50:00. > :50:05.ancient state. People in Scotland might love it or hate it. It lays
:50:06. > :50:12.out the Westminster Parliament in it falls -- full glory or in its stage
:50:13. > :50:18.idiosyncrasies. What do you make of seeing that panoply of state? I
:50:19. > :50:25.worry about anything to do with having to wear a heap of metal on
:50:26. > :50:30.your head and walking up and down steps to the throne and yet on the
:50:31. > :50:35.day it wasn't her under strain. One of the boys fainted. We started with
:50:36. > :50:41.four and then there were three because one of them had a turn. It
:50:42. > :50:50.is very antique. Lots of parts of the world think it is amazing. The
:50:51. > :50:56.coach she was riding in is the work of a Republican Australian who
:50:57. > :51:00.has... Australia has threatened to ditch the monarchy from time to
:51:01. > :51:08.time. He remortgaged his house to build this coach which has the Stone
:51:09. > :51:12.of destiny embodied in it. Who gave the authority to someone to chip off
:51:13. > :51:16.bits of the stone I don't know! I don't particularly love it or think
:51:17. > :51:21.it's appropriate in the 21st century but a lot of people do.
:51:22. > :51:26.Before we go, a quick prediction for the by-election tomorrow. It looks
:51:27. > :51:32.like the Tories. The script will have to change again because UKIP
:51:33. > :51:41.were on the surge so why have they not done better? We're back at the
:51:42. > :51:42.same time next week, 2:30pm on BBC Two. Thanks for your company this
:51:43. > :52:27.afternoon. Bye for now. This is one of the most
:52:28. > :52:31.fire-prone regions on earth.