:00:17. > :00:26.Hello and welcome to the first Politics Scotland of the
:00:26. > :00:30.parliamentary session. Coming up: Alex Salmond reshuffles his
:00:30. > :00:37.ministerial team not what big changes at the top Nicola Sturgeon
:00:37. > :00:41.task with overseeing constitutional change.
:00:41. > :00:50.The record of this parliament is the clearest possible evidence that
:00:50. > :00:53.unless people take decisions about the future of Scotland we need to
:00:53. > :00:56.give people the choice of independence. We need to give
:00:56. > :00:59.ourselves responsibility is a nation in the world and a
:00:59. > :01:03.Government that reflects the people's priorities and Scottish
:01:03. > :01:07.values. And Europe Westminster as David
:01:07. > :01:13.Cameron completes his reshuffle just what will it mean in the fight
:01:14. > :01:17.to kick-start the economy? Good afternoon. Alex Salmond has
:01:17. > :01:20.conducted a major reshuffle of his ministerial team. There were
:01:20. > :01:25.rumours of it this morning and just after 1pm the new team were
:01:25. > :01:31.announced and you it is. The biggest change is Nicola Sturgeon
:01:31. > :01:34.being appointed as Infrastructure Secretary. She has passed without
:01:34. > :01:40.taking a key responsibility in the economy and overlooking the
:01:40. > :01:47.constitution. Alex Neil now takes on the health brief. Bruce Crawford
:01:47. > :01:52.is retiring as secretary and Bryan Adams will also exit as Minister of
:01:52. > :01:57.parliamentary business. Their roles will be taken on by Joe Fitzpatrick
:01:57. > :02:01.from Dundee West. Another departure it is Stewart Stevenson who is
:02:01. > :02:05.leaving his climate change brief and is represented by this man from
:02:05. > :02:10.the South of Sir Scotland. There are couple of new faces joining as
:02:10. > :02:14.well. Humza Yousaf from Glasgow comes a Minister for External
:02:14. > :02:21.Affairs and International Development Welt Margaret Burgess
:02:21. > :02:24.who represents Cunninghame South is going to welfare. It is go across
:02:24. > :02:28.to our Political Correspondent Raymond Buchanan who is standing at
:02:28. > :02:34.parliament in Scotland. Why has there been a need for a reshuffle?
:02:34. > :02:37.We have an obvious timetable set up by Alex Salmond which says that he
:02:37. > :02:42.wants to will their independence referendum in the autumn of 2014. A
:02:42. > :02:49.lot of focus will be on at Nicola Sturgeon is new duties in charge of
:02:49. > :02:54.the constitution. She will now take responsibility for that strategy.
:02:54. > :02:59.Her job will be to win and yes vote in the autumn of 2014. She is used
:02:59. > :03:04.to handling controversial subjects, she handled the swine flu epidemic
:03:04. > :03:09.and recently same-sex marriage and also the Scottish Parliament or for
:03:09. > :03:13.two parliaments with minimum pricing on argol. Now she has been
:03:13. > :03:17.handed by her close colleague Alex Salmond the biggest challenge of a
:03:17. > :03:23.political career. Let us look at the thinking behind the reshuffle.
:03:23. > :03:27.And now it joined by big Cabinet secretary for finance. What is
:03:27. > :03:32.Nicola Sturgeon is change of role telling us about this Government's
:03:32. > :03:37.strategy ahead? It tells us that the Government is focused entirely
:03:37. > :03:40.on its twin purposes of delivering economic recovery and winning a yes
:03:40. > :03:45.vote in the referendum and pitting their argument to the people of
:03:45. > :03:48.Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon his new role will marry together those
:03:48. > :03:52.responsibilities and as we know from her record as a long-standing
:03:52. > :03:57.and very effective health secretary she will do that with significant
:03:57. > :04:01.gusto. What was she bring to the negotiations with the UK Government
:04:01. > :04:07.author and any questions they should be in their referendum? What
:04:07. > :04:11.can she do that Bruce Crawford cannot? Bruce Crawford has taking a
:04:11. > :04:13.stand down for his own personal reasons which we can all understand.
:04:13. > :04:17.He has served that the Government of brilliantly over the last five
:04:17. > :04:22.years but has made his own decision to step aside. Nicola Sturgeon will
:04:22. > :04:28.be taking forward the negotiations that Rhys Crockfords dead. She is
:04:28. > :04:35.looking at the end game and we are involved in that endgame. -- an
:04:35. > :04:39.Bruce Crawford dent. She is looking to seal their agreement between at
:04:39. > :04:45.the Scottish and UK Government. Also bringing in new blood at the
:04:45. > :04:50.lower ranks. What is that in that? Is it about giving hope to the mass
:04:50. > :04:57.numbers of MSPs elected in 2011? is about making sure that we use
:04:57. > :05:03.the talent as effectively as we can do. When we addressed the people at
:05:03. > :05:06.lunchtime and set out their changes that Alex Salmond wanted to make it
:05:06. > :05:11.was clear the he had a long list of people that he could have appointed
:05:11. > :05:14.but he did not at the vacancies to deal with every possibility. In
:05:14. > :05:21.appointing Joe Fitzpatrick as the new Minister for or parliamentary
:05:21. > :05:25.business who is a new Staffa and the involvement of Margaret Burgess
:05:25. > :05:30.looking at welfare reform issues where she has a fantastic track
:05:30. > :05:33.record of active working to support on a boat people in our society, it
:05:33. > :05:37.really strengthens our team as we embark on meeting the challenges
:05:37. > :05:42.that lie ahead and preparing Scotland for economic recovery and
:05:42. > :05:46.winning the referendum. Is this shuffling just where people sit
:05:46. > :05:49.around the Cabinet table or is it showing a change in economic
:05:49. > :05:53.policy? It signals the Government's determination to ensure that we
:05:53. > :05:57.have the people in the right place to deliver the Government's agenda.
:05:57. > :06:02.We have Nicola Sturgeon working very closely with me on economic
:06:02. > :06:07.recovery as I was working there for a with Alex Neil. We're looking to
:06:07. > :06:11.deliver the referendum for the Government. Alex Neil is moving
:06:11. > :06:15.into the health brief and is one of the Cabinet's strongest members.
:06:15. > :06:19.What is important is that we have people in the right jobs using
:06:19. > :06:24.their skills and their talents and I think the first Minister has made
:06:24. > :06:30.a very strong decision in that respect today. Nicola Sturgeon has
:06:30. > :06:33.made clear her personal preference is for one question referendum. It
:06:33. > :06:39.is clear that there is not much to negotiate with with the UK
:06:39. > :06:45.Government. We should have a one question referendum in at the
:06:45. > :06:50.autumn of 2014. We certainly should have it in the autumn of 2014. It
:06:50. > :06:54.is going to be in their autumn of 2014. And that way at that issue
:06:54. > :06:58.settled. On the questions. The Government is involved in a
:06:58. > :07:01.consultation exercise and we are assessing those consultation
:07:01. > :07:06.responses and will determine what is the right way to proceed after
:07:06. > :07:09.that. What is important is that we take forward an orderly approach to
:07:09. > :07:15.the referendum that is what we're always wanted to do is that is what
:07:15. > :07:21.we're going to do. A pot of those stairs MSPs have gathered to listen
:07:21. > :07:27.to a debate and one of those contributors to that debate is
:07:27. > :07:33.Nicola Sturgeon. Raymond Buchanan, Thank you very
:07:33. > :07:37.much. We will renew Nicola Sturgeon sharply but first ball let us go to
:07:38. > :07:43.John Curtice from Strathclyde University for some analysis. It is
:07:43. > :07:49.economy and referendum, isn't it? That is absolutely right. What
:07:49. > :07:52.became clear from Alex Salmon's statement yesterday was that the
:07:52. > :07:56.SNP are not going to win the referendum unless they can persuade
:07:56. > :08:01.the public that Scotland's economy will be stronger as an independent
:08:01. > :08:08.country. To be able to do that the SNP need to be able to demonstrate
:08:08. > :08:12.that they have someone who can deliver economic growth. I think it
:08:12. > :08:15.is most undoubtedly are crucial reason why this change has happened,
:08:15. > :08:19.it means that these two parts of the police have been brought
:08:19. > :08:23.together and he's trying to say to Scotland, we are not ignoring their
:08:23. > :08:28.it economy by doing the constitution, the constitutional
:08:28. > :08:33.issue and the economic issue goes together. It does also have one
:08:33. > :08:37.interesting consequence, it means that in so far as you regard Nicola
:08:37. > :08:42.Sturgeon as one of the top big hitters of his Government, she is
:08:42. > :08:46.no longer going to have to deal with the same-sex marriage issue
:08:46. > :08:50.which has led to controversy and that will go to Alex Neil. That is
:08:50. > :08:57.a diversion of her time and political energies and that has now
:08:57. > :09:02.been avoided. It does have caused raised this question, that all the
:09:02. > :09:05.sudden apparently, we are in their endgame of the negotiations with
:09:05. > :09:13.then the argument between the UK Government and the Scottish
:09:13. > :09:19.Government over the conduct of the referendum. The junior minister at
:09:19. > :09:25.-- Minister of the Scottish Office is now pulling out of that. Now
:09:25. > :09:32.we're looking to see how far those negotiations ever got. We might not
:09:32. > :09:36.have expected a change of personnel at this point in time. What are we
:09:36. > :09:40.looking at you? Does Alex Salmond want to it have something to
:09:40. > :09:45.announce at the SNP conference in mid-October? That is an obvious
:09:45. > :09:48.deadline. They did indicate that the Government was expecting to
:09:48. > :09:53.announce its response to the consultation conducted over this
:09:53. > :09:59.year and next month. It could well therefore be in the first have of
:09:59. > :10:01.October. They could be choreographing it at the same time
:10:01. > :10:04.as the Scottish Government announces its consultation and it
:10:04. > :10:12.will tell us the result of the endgame which is either going to be
:10:12. > :10:15.an agreement with the UK Government transferring to the Holyrood
:10:15. > :10:19.parliament more power or whether it at the end of these knitters
:10:19. > :10:25.Nations they might not have come to anything. Well they still proceed
:10:25. > :10:28.to the referendum in that order? I think it will be a lot easier at
:10:28. > :10:37.that time, all those ministers are trying to fend of those questions
:10:37. > :10:41.over whether decisions have been made, the to face this issue of the
:10:41. > :10:46.SNP wanting to change the party policies for an independent
:10:46. > :10:56.Scottish motion later. The we're going to Nicola Sturgeon live in
:10:56. > :10:58.
:10:58. > :11:02.Holyrood. Let me take the opportunity since
:11:02. > :11:06.it is available to me to see a few words about the Government changes
:11:06. > :11:11.made by the first minister today. The first thing I want to save from
:11:11. > :11:15.the bottom of my heart is that it has been an extraordinary privilege
:11:15. > :11:19.to serve as Scotland's Health Secretary of it these past five
:11:19. > :11:25.years. I am very proud of what has been achieved in those five years.
:11:25. > :11:30.It has been very challenging times. We have the lowest waiting times on
:11:30. > :11:34.record and the lowest hospital infection rates in Redcar it and
:11:34. > :11:38.we're patient care that is sacred than it has ever been before. I am
:11:38. > :11:42.particularly proud to have steered through this Parliament the ground-
:11:42. > :11:48.breaking legislation on a minimum pricing which is a world leading. I
:11:48. > :11:52.hope to see that implemented as soon as possible.
:11:52. > :11:56.APPLAUSE. I want to thank everybody that I
:11:56. > :12:01.have had the privilege of working with, the officials at the Scottish
:12:01. > :12:04.Government, the cheers of health boards and trade unions, interest
:12:04. > :12:08.groups and above all else those who work in the front line of our
:12:08. > :12:12.health service. We are so incredibly lucky in our Health
:12:12. > :12:18.Service and in those who work in our health service. I am
:12:18. > :12:21.particularly proud of having been able to protect not just the Budget
:12:21. > :12:25.of our National Health Service but the founding principles. I know
:12:25. > :12:29.that Alex Neil will continue to do just that as he takes over as
:12:29. > :12:34.health secretary. I am also extremely excited to be taking on
:12:34. > :12:39.new responsibilities in Government and new responsibilities I take
:12:39. > :12:44.over as of today that reflect very closely that when priorities of the
:12:44. > :12:49.programme for Government the first minister outlined yesterday. That
:12:49. > :12:54.is the programme for Government that the debate today. I will be
:12:54. > :12:58.very pleased to work with the first minister and with John Swinney on
:12:58. > :13:04.the Government's strategy for economic recovery and in that
:13:04. > :13:08.regard and look forward what man is doing it -- ministerial colleagues
:13:08. > :13:11.to Margaret Thatcher's her particularly welcome to the new
:13:11. > :13:16.post as Minister for Housing and Welfare. I look forward to working
:13:16. > :13:22.with them to put cure it the better regulation Bell and as well as
:13:22. > :13:27.other priorities. In taking on the this responsibility and have very
:13:28. > :13:31.big boots to fill. Those that are in the shape of Alex Neil and I see
:13:31. > :13:36.that in the hope that he says the same about his predecessor in the
:13:36. > :13:40.new role that he takes on today. Nothing could be more important in
:13:40. > :13:44.this time than responding to the real pressures that individuals and
:13:44. > :13:50.families across Scotland are facing. We to do everything we can within
:13:50. > :13:54.our powers and resources to get her economy growing and to create jobs.
:13:54. > :14:00.We need to challenge as vigorously as we can at the disastrous
:14:00. > :14:04.economic policy of the Tory and Liberal coalition. I repeat today
:14:05. > :14:09.the message already sent loudly and clearly by the first minister to
:14:09. > :14:16.the UK Government. Our economy needs more capital stimulus and it
:14:16. > :14:21.needs it now. We have projects incumbent on their it UK Government
:14:21. > :14:31.to provide the funds were. If they care little about the human cost of
:14:31. > :14:32.
:14:32. > :14:36.unemployment then they will not I want to do so much more than
:14:36. > :14:39.lobby an unresponsive UK Government for a sane economic policy. I want
:14:39. > :14:43.to be in a government with the power to make for ourselves the
:14:43. > :14:48.decisions we need to take to get our economy growing, and that
:14:48. > :14:53.brings me to the second part of my new Government responsibilities. I
:14:54. > :14:58.have believed for all of my adult life that Scotland should be an
:14:58. > :15:01.independent nation. For me, it's never really been about flags or
:15:01. > :15:06.status symbols. It's all about how we make this country of ours the
:15:06. > :15:11.best that it possibly can be. It's based on the fundamental belief
:15:11. > :15:15.that if we want a strong economy, we must have access to all of
:15:15. > :15:21.Scotland's resources - not just to that portion of Scotland's
:15:21. > :15:25.resources that the UK Government chooses to give us. It's based on
:15:25. > :15:28.the inescapable reality if we want to tackle once and for all the
:15:28. > :15:33.scandalous child poverty, then we must be able to make our own
:15:33. > :15:37.decisions on tax and benefits, and Presiding Officer, we must be able
:15:37. > :15:43.to prioritise spending on the early years of our children's lives over
:15:43. > :15:46.spending on weapons of mass destruction. And it's based on -
:15:46. > :15:51.APPLAUSE It's based on the irrefutable logic
:15:51. > :15:55.that if it is right and it is right for this Parliament to take
:15:55. > :15:59.decisions on health, education, on justice, then how can it be
:15:59. > :16:05.anything other than right for this Parliament also to take decisions
:16:05. > :16:08.on the economy, on welfare and defence? I believe passionately
:16:08. > :16:12.that the best people to take decisions about Scotland are those
:16:12. > :16:18.who live here, and Presiding Officer, I look forward immensely
:16:18. > :16:23.with my colleagues to making that honest - that positive and that
:16:23. > :16:27.upbeat case over these next two years, and I look forward to
:16:27. > :16:32.winning that independence referendum in 2014.
:16:32. > :16:37.APPLAUSE Many, many thanks. And now I call
:16:37. > :16:41.on Richard Baker. Presiding Officer, just as I was
:16:41. > :16:44.putting the finishing touches on this speech over lunch, so much has
:16:44. > :16:48.happened. Indeed this appears to be rather monexcitement in the lobby
:16:48. > :16:51.and on particular on the SNP benches over the Scottish Cabinet
:16:51. > :16:54.reshuffle and this legislative programme which is entirely
:16:54. > :16:58.understandable, but while I welcome Nicola Sturgeon to her new role at
:16:58. > :17:02.Infrastructure and Capital Investment this central move of the
:17:02. > :17:05.reshuffle also reflects what is at the heart of the legislative
:17:05. > :17:11.programme announced yesterday that at the end of the day, for the SNP,
:17:11. > :17:14.breaking up the United Kingdom is the be-all-and-end-all. Nicola
:17:14. > :17:19.Sturgeon has quit the health brief so she can spend more time on
:17:19. > :17:23.debating independence. I can tell her that the infrastructure and
:17:23. > :17:28.capital investment brief isn't only time-consuming, it is also crucial.
:17:28. > :17:32.Officer, idea like to tell you how sorry I am to see Mr Neil move on
:17:32. > :17:35.from that role to his new role. But I think we all know that would be
:17:35. > :17:42.stretching the bounds of credibility, something Mr Neil does
:17:43. > :17:46.himself all too often, but actually, I do wish him well, but Mr Neil's...
:17:46. > :17:52.I do. No, I don't. But it also speaks to where this legislative
:17:52. > :17:54.programme fails too because while we look forward with interest to
:17:54. > :17:57.this procurement bill, this Government's underperformance has
:17:57. > :18:01.been damaging to our economy and key sectors including the
:18:02. > :18:05.construction industry. When it comes to the key issue of the
:18:05. > :18:09.economy too often we have had warm words and not the action required
:18:09. > :18:13.from the Scottish Government. Yesterday, the First Minister
:18:13. > :18:16.talked again about shovel-ready projit, his own Government has
:18:16. > :18:22.delayed a host of key infrastructure projects at a time
:18:22. > :18:27.when our construction sector is crying out for work.
:18:27. > :18:31.Mr McDonald. I am grateful to Mr Baker for giving way. Over the
:18:31. > :18:33.summer I wrote to Mr Baker asking him if he's Labour's capital
:18:33. > :18:37.investment spokesperson would back the calls from the Scottish
:18:37. > :18:41.Government for shovel-ready projects to be brought forward by
:18:41. > :18:44.the UK Government. To date I have received no reply. Perhaps he'd
:18:44. > :18:49.like to give me the answer. didn't get a letter but what I
:18:50. > :18:54.would say to him is keep trying, Mark. Eventually you'll get. There
:18:54. > :19:00.persistence will pay off! You shouldn't be too disappointed about
:19:00. > :19:04.today. But if I don't... Order. I don't get a letter, I really
:19:04. > :19:09.can't - can't reply to it, so yesterday - so we find out, you
:19:09. > :19:14.know, in terms of the construction and capital investment - should be
:19:14. > :19:18.taking place, we find out today that on the basis of a draft report,
:19:18. > :19:23.the budget for the Edinburgh to Glasgow improvement plan was cut by
:19:23. > :19:26.�350 million. In Aberdeen our energy sector requires 120,000 new
:19:26. > :19:31.recruits. Where's the plan to deal with that crucial issue for the
:19:31. > :19:39.economy not just of ander gien, Scotland? The report from Price-
:19:39. > :19:44.Waterhouse Cooper is for an energy academy at the same time as the SNP
:19:44. > :19:48.college budgets. They are withdrawing support for new
:19:48. > :19:52.development in the City. In doing so, failing Aberdeen again. No. In
:19:52. > :19:56.the last Parliament we were told that the overarching purpose of
:19:56. > :20:02.this Government was economic growth, and to emphasise this point, it was
:20:02. > :20:04.referred to as "the purpose" with a capital T and a capital P, but this
:20:04. > :20:07.debate has shown that this is a Government with its eye all the
:20:07. > :20:11.ball of the economy and whose purpose now is solely preparation
:20:11. > :20:16.with a capital S. We'll engage with the sustainable procurement bill,
:20:16. > :20:18.but again and again Mr Neil told us he couldn't take the action we need
:20:18. > :20:22.on procurement because of the European Union. The action we need
:20:22. > :20:26.to ensure - through the use of community benefit clauses in
:20:26. > :20:30.creating smaller contracts we give small and medium-sized enterprises
:20:30. > :20:35.in Scotland batter chance from benefiting from public sector
:20:35. > :20:40.investment and through that our growing economy. Far if blocking
:20:40. > :20:48.such action the EU is proposing a directive which state contracting
:20:48. > :20:51.authorities should be able to allow contracting -- to divide lots. Why
:20:51. > :20:56.aren't the Scottish Government doing this already? This doesn't
:20:56. > :20:59.need a bill? Why in fact are they still doing the opposite and
:20:59. > :21:03.creating contracts so big, only big business can bid for them?
:21:03. > :21:07.Yesterday the First Minister said we'll put - I'd better take it.
:21:07. > :21:13.thank the member for taking the intervention. Can I just point out
:21:13. > :21:18.to him - and let me confuse him with some facts. 75% of all the
:21:18. > :21:23.contracts let through the Scottish Government's porthole go to small
:21:23. > :21:28.and medium-sized enterprises. Neil never lets the facts get in
:21:28. > :21:32.the way or confuses him. I'll refer him to the Jimmy Reid Foundation
:21:32. > :21:35.report which contradicts many of the statements he's made on
:21:35. > :21:39.procurement. Yesterday the First Minister said we'll put community
:21:39. > :21:44.benefit clauses into every public sector contract. The question is
:21:44. > :21:47.why hasn't that been done already because unfortunately on the Forth
:21:47. > :21:50.replacement crossing the shipping firms have already lost out. We
:21:50. > :21:55.also know how important to the economy our construction - and to
:21:55. > :22:01.our construction industry new housing is, yet the last budget
:22:01. > :22:05.slashed housing investment by �86 million. The vaunted housing bill
:22:05. > :22:09.in this programme is conspicuous by its absence. It's not good enough
:22:09. > :22:14.to say this will all be sorted out after separation, as if that were
:22:15. > :22:18.free us from the Tory Government when the SNP's proposal on monetary
:22:19. > :22:23.policy is future UK governments of whatever political complexion will
:22:23. > :22:27.still make key decisions on our economy with zero influence from
:22:27. > :22:31.Ministers of Scotland. A final moment. Separation is their
:22:31. > :22:34.suggestion, but it's no solution. This programme of bills and the
:22:34. > :22:39.events of today show this administration has its eye well and
:22:39. > :22:44.truly off the ball when it comes to taking the action we need to -
:22:44. > :22:49.Scotland to growth. In conclusion that's why we need to get beyond
:22:49. > :22:53.the process of the referendum and get on with making - when Scotland
:22:53. > :22:59.has decided to making its reputation in the UK we can all get
:22:59. > :23:05.on with what we're doing in this Parliament, delivering for the
:23:05. > :23:08.people. It's Scotland's version of the Queen's Speech, Alex Salmond
:23:08. > :23:13.set out his priorities for the year ahead at Holyrood yesterday. Let's
:23:13. > :23:19.speak to Professor John Curtice once again. Let's go through some
:23:19. > :23:24.of the main themes. What shined out yeat you when Mr Salmond was
:23:24. > :23:27.setting out his priorities? In the past I have been critical of their
:23:27. > :23:30.programmes, looking rather liefgt even last year when they had a
:23:30. > :23:34.majority it wasn't clear what they were doing with it. In truth,
:23:34. > :23:36.despite the Unionists coming up with the rather obvious argument,
:23:36. > :23:39.they're just interested in independence and nothing else,
:23:39. > :23:44.actually, this looks quite a substantial legislative programme.
:23:44. > :23:47.There is of course same-sex marriage which undoubtedly is the
:23:47. > :23:51.one thing that's going to attract headlines. That's one of the things
:23:51. > :23:55.Alex Salmond was able to wrap up into a reasonably coherent
:23:55. > :24:00.narrative which was the idea of creating a fairer Scotland but
:24:00. > :24:04.there are other bills, health and social care integration - one of
:24:04. > :24:07.the long-standing problems that's beset governments north and south
:24:07. > :24:11.of the border of how do we deal with somebody who is in hospital,
:24:11. > :24:15.and are they going to need social care to get them out of hospital -
:24:15. > :24:18.how do we achieve greater coordination of those two
:24:18. > :24:23.resources? There is now a bill to see if that nut can finally be
:24:23. > :24:26.cracked. There are also two very important bills that actually pave
:24:26. > :24:30.the way for the Scottish Parliament becoming for the first time in its
:24:30. > :24:34.life something of a significant fax-raising body in the
:24:34. > :24:37.implementation of a new Scotland act. One is going to pave the way
:24:37. > :24:41.for the abolition of stamp duty north of the border in 2014 and is
:24:41. > :24:46.replaced with a new land transaction tax. There is also
:24:46. > :24:49.legislation to deal with - (Indiscernible) We're starting to
:24:49. > :24:52.see the first inkling of the Parliament starting to deal with
:24:52. > :24:58.what'll be its new tax responsibilities in 2015. Of course,
:24:58. > :25:01.some of the programme is defenceive. You have heard Richard Baker
:25:01. > :25:05.criticising procurement, and the legislative programme contains
:25:05. > :25:08.legislation to try to insulate the Government against some of that. It
:25:08. > :25:13.undoubtedly is defensive but I think in truth, just taking those
:25:13. > :25:16.four or five bills I have mentioned, that is quite a substantial
:25:16. > :25:19.programme and does indicate the Scottish Government is using the
:25:19. > :25:25.existing devolved powers to make what may well be some important
:25:25. > :25:28.changes for Scotland with some impact down the track. A big theme
:25:28. > :25:30.in Joanne's speech yesterday when she was criticising the package of
:25:30. > :25:35.measures is you don't need legislation to do some of this,
:25:35. > :25:38.such as the Children and Young People Bill which guarantees 600
:25:38. > :25:41.free hours of nursery care. She says that can be done at the stroke
:25:41. > :25:45.of a pen. Do you think the Government do need legislation?
:25:45. > :25:50.Certainly with the Health and Social Care Integration, that is an
:25:50. > :25:53.issue for debate. This Government and previous ones have tried the
:25:53. > :25:59.achieve coordination through the coordination of health partnerships
:25:59. > :26:04.and creating incentives to ensure that the two - NHS and local
:26:04. > :26:09.authorities responsible for social - share their budgets. The
:26:09. > :26:12.consensus is that's not happened. This will provide a legal basis
:26:12. > :26:15.that'll require both the NHS and local authorities to share their
:26:15. > :26:18.budgets in these two areas, so arguably past experience has
:26:18. > :26:23.suggested trying to do it without legislation has not been sufficient.
:26:23. > :26:26.This will now do it. But certainly, one needs to bear in mind -
:26:26. > :26:30.certainly a lot of Government action doesn't necessarily require
:26:30. > :26:33.legislation. We saw an important announcement during the summer
:26:33. > :26:36.recess about funding for students that didn't require legislation.
:26:36. > :26:39.Yes, it's always easy to focus too much on a legislative programme. In
:26:39. > :26:44.truth, the Government has actually made it rather more difficult for
:26:44. > :26:48.the opposition to say all you're going to do is the referendum and
:26:48. > :26:51.nothing else - we might have expected. I think probably this in
:26:51. > :26:54.fact is the most substantial SNP legislative programme since they
:26:55. > :26:59.first came into Parliament in 2007. Thank you. Back with you later.
:26:59. > :27:05.Let's head to the Garden Lobby in Holyrood and pick up on those
:27:05. > :27:09.issues with Annabelle Using and Murdo Fraser from the Scottish
:27:09. > :27:14.Conservatives. Thank you very much for joining us. Annabelle, were you
:27:14. > :27:18.waiting for the call from the First Minister there? A big reshuffle
:27:18. > :27:21.from Labour this afternoon. What about - the Liberal Democrats are
:27:21. > :27:28.saying that Nicola Sturgeon is the Minister for Independent. Is that
:27:28. > :27:32.right? Good afternoon. What happened today was that with Nicola
:27:32. > :27:35.Sturgeon being switched to the portfolio of capital investment
:27:35. > :27:39.infrastructure, we have seen the signal from the SNP Scottish
:27:40. > :27:44.Government of the importance that this Government places on economic
:27:44. > :27:49.recovery. I think everybody would accept that Nicola has done a
:27:49. > :27:51.fantastic job as Health Secretary. I believe she has been the longest-
:27:51. > :27:57.serving Health Secretary since the reconvening of the Scottish
:27:57. > :28:00.Parliament in 1999. She's done a fantastic job. I am sure these
:28:00. > :28:06.gentlemen will wish to recognise the fantastic job she's done. Of
:28:06. > :28:08.course, with her move to the investment and capital
:28:08. > :28:15.infrastructure portfolio, we're signalling the importance we place
:28:15. > :28:17.on the economic recovery. She brings with her, of course, the
:28:17. > :28:21.weight Deputy First Minister's office, so I think it's a very
:28:21. > :28:26.important shift, and I'm sure she'll be seeking to tackle her new
:28:26. > :28:30.portfolio with the same vim and vigour and excellence with which
:28:30. > :28:34.she tackled the health portfolio. Isn't it a cynical move to lay
:28:34. > :28:37.those concerns on the gentleman beside you that you just focus on
:28:37. > :28:44.independence and not the economy? You're trying to intertwine these
:28:44. > :28:47.issues to make it look like you're trying to focus on economy as much
:28:47. > :28:52.as independence? As you heard in your interview with Professor John
:28:52. > :28:55.Curtice that argument is a bit tired now. We saw yesterday with
:28:55. > :28:58.the very ambitious legislative programme - some 15 bills over the
:28:58. > :29:01.next year or so - I think it was a great signal to the people in this
:29:01. > :29:05.country that we in the SNP and the SNP Government are determined to
:29:05. > :29:10.make an improvement in the lives of our citizens and indeed to
:29:10. > :29:13.transform our country, and of course the way we will do that is
:29:13. > :29:17.by voting Yes in the independence referendum in 2014. Murdo Fraser
:29:17. > :29:20.from the Conservatives, it looks like the SNP are putting forward
:29:20. > :29:24.quite a coherent argument there intertwining the economy and
:29:24. > :29:34.independence and saying, if you want Scotland to prosper, you need
:29:34. > :29:41.
:29:41. > :29:45.independence. We're folkUsing on It tells its own story that a
:29:45. > :29:49.minister has been moved from the Health Secretary position to
:29:49. > :29:54.looking at independence. Nicola Sturgeon has been freed up from the
:29:54. > :29:57.responsibility of looking after the NHS to get her more time to fight
:29:57. > :30:02.the campaign for Scottish independence, that is what this is
:30:02. > :30:08.about. Be in no doubt that the SNP are obsessed with a single aim
:30:08. > :30:11.which is getting independence from the rest of the UK. They are now
:30:11. > :30:16.targeted on that one objective and nothing else matters to them one
:30:16. > :30:21.little bit. Your colleague will be meeting with Nicola Sturgeon
:30:21. > :30:27.tomorrow. How close are we to meeting an agreement on the
:30:27. > :30:31.referendum? I would hope that we are pretty close. I do not think
:30:31. > :30:35.that the UK Government are stumbling block to this. They have
:30:35. > :30:39.said that what Alex Salmond needs to do is just follow what he said
:30:39. > :30:43.in his manifesto which is bring forward plans for at a single
:30:43. > :30:47.question referendum whereby the people of Scotland can vote yes or
:30:47. > :30:52.No to whether Scotland remains part of the United Kingdom. If he is
:30:52. > :30:56.prepared to do that then there will be no problem at all in those they
:30:56. > :31:02.go issues being granted. We need to get us all the West and the sooner
:31:02. > :31:07.we can get over it and focus on real issues are better it will be.
:31:07. > :31:10.Lewis Macdonald from Labour it yesterday said that the SNP
:31:10. > :31:17.administration was tired and flagging. Do you not think that
:31:17. > :31:22.this shows a little bit of impetus? I think it was a tired and flagging
:31:22. > :31:24.legislative programme. I think that it shows something that there
:31:24. > :31:29.deputy first minister has been moved away from the National Health
:31:29. > :31:32.Service and has been given to jobs. When Alex Salmond said in
:31:32. > :31:38.parliament yesterday that the two most important things for the
:31:38. > :31:42.Scottish economy were Scottish referendum and then procurement of
:31:42. > :31:48.those things are at very important they have both been given to the
:31:48. > :31:52.same person. That either means that there is a dearth of ministerial
:31:52. > :31:56.talent or it means that Nicola Sturgeon will be expected to focus
:31:56. > :32:00.either on independence or at on construction and that the other
:32:00. > :32:04.jobs will not be done to the full effect. I think I know which one is
:32:05. > :32:09.going to be the most important. We have already seen a �100 million
:32:09. > :32:13.cut in the Budget since the SNP returned last year. I would be
:32:13. > :32:16.pessimistic indeed about the prospects for the housing budget
:32:16. > :32:20.and the infrastructure when it Nicola Sturgeon is going to spend
:32:21. > :32:26.most of the next two years fighting the referendum campaign. I think
:32:26. > :32:29.they argue it is a twin-track approach. Yesterday Alex Salmond
:32:29. > :32:33.was copied door stop to the referendums. Now we hear John
:32:33. > :32:40.Swinney talking about the end game, do you not think we're looking at
:32:40. > :32:44.the SNP coming soon agreement with the UK Government? I sincerely hope
:32:44. > :32:48.so. Barely a referendum that is what with the consent of all
:32:48. > :32:53.parties and in an understood way as one that will hold whereas a
:32:53. > :32:58.referendum which is not negotiated in advance will have no authority.
:32:58. > :33:01.It is important that that happens. But there is no reason why this
:33:01. > :33:04.Bell and his referendum could not have gone through Parliament in
:33:04. > :33:08.months rather than years and we would have that decision 12 months
:33:08. > :33:14.from now it rather than in two years' time. Annabelle Ewing we're
:33:14. > :33:18.talking about a twin-track approach you at this inside line. When are
:33:18. > :33:25.we going to come to an agreement with the UK Government and what
:33:25. > :33:29.detail will there be in that? What do the SNP actually want? I think
:33:29. > :33:32.it is clear it that a discussions are ongoing with the UK Government
:33:32. > :33:37.and that is the proper way to conduct business, it those
:33:37. > :33:42.discussions will continue. It will come as no surprise that everybody
:33:42. > :33:47.in the SNP supports the right of Scotland to beat at normal country
:33:47. > :33:52.and have the normal rights to independence. I have yet to see the
:33:52. > :33:57.bell and we await the analysis of the extremely successful
:33:57. > :34:03.consultation exercise that had been launched. There are some 26,000
:34:03. > :34:06.responses to be analysed. It is quite right and proper that those
:34:06. > :34:12.responses are analysed carefully and with due time and consideration
:34:12. > :34:21.and once that has been done we will all be clear as to the way forward.
:34:21. > :34:27.Thank you very much. Let us turn to the issue of the
:34:27. > :34:30.economy which dominated Prime Minister's Questions. The Labour
:34:30. > :34:34.leader Ed Miliband accused the Government of sticking with the
:34:34. > :34:36.economic approach that had failed spectacularly. David Cameron insist
:34:36. > :34:43.that thick economy was rebalancing and that the Government would
:34:43. > :34:48.deliver for the Scottish people. He mentions they have reshuffle and
:34:48. > :34:53.it is good to see the Chancellor still in his place. I have to say
:34:53. > :34:57.to the Prime Minister that he has come to an ingenious solution to
:34:57. > :35:00.their issue of his part in Chancellor, he is appointed another
:35:00. > :35:05.one what the former justice secretary, it is a job share, we
:35:05. > :35:09.will see how they get on. And do not know if he remembers that a
:35:10. > :35:14.year ago he published his national infrastructure plan alongside the
:35:14. > :35:20.Autumn Statement. He said at the time of that plan it was an all out
:35:20. > :35:24.mission to unlock the system. Can he tell us one year on of the road-
:35:24. > :35:31.building project announced in that plan, how many have actually
:35:31. > :35:36.started? I am glad he mentioned the issue of chances because of course
:35:36. > :35:41.I have my first choice as Chancellor and he has his third
:35:41. > :35:46.choice as shadow chancellor. Apparently he still has to bring in
:35:47. > :35:53.the coffee every morning. That is just how assertive and which their
:35:53. > :35:59.leader of the opposition really is. About infrastructure, he asks about
:35:59. > :36:05.infrastructure, if you look at what is planned by this Government
:36:05. > :36:12.between 2010 and 2015, we will be investing �250 billion in
:36:12. > :36:19.infrastructure which compares with just �113 billion between at 2005
:36:19. > :36:23.and 2010. He does not have a clue. Over the last two-and-a-half years
:36:23. > :36:27.we have seen announcements on other structures Dale and announcements
:36:27. > :36:31.on housing and planning failed. What is the reason for this
:36:32. > :36:36.economic failure? The reason is has fundamental economic approach is
:36:37. > :36:42.wrong. After the summer we now know that his whole two-and-a-half years
:36:42. > :36:49.as Prime Minister has not seen the British economy grow at all. By
:36:49. > :36:56.does not he admitted? The real problem is this, plan a has
:36:56. > :37:00.spectacularly failed. Let me tell what has happened in our economy,
:37:00. > :37:03.you are seen the private sector growing and expanding. There are
:37:03. > :37:10.900,000 more people employed in the private sector then there were two
:37:10. > :37:16.years ago. We're now an exporter of cars and motor of the coals for the
:37:16. > :37:20.first thing since the 1970s. -- of vehicles. Our economy as
:37:20. > :37:26.rebalancing and that is what is happening and there is growth in
:37:26. > :37:30.the private sector, our exports to China at up and so are they to
:37:30. > :37:33.India and Russia. That is what is happening, it is a hard and
:37:33. > :37:40.difficult road that we will stick to that road because we will
:37:41. > :37:45.deliver for the British economy. Has the Prime Minister seen today
:37:45. > :37:50.that there was a report saying that Aberdeen needs to recruit 120,000
:37:50. > :37:53.skilled people in the next ten years if we are to deliver our
:37:54. > :37:57.capacity in the global energy economy? Well the Government take
:37:57. > :38:00.steps to ensure that an energy Academy and infrastructure and
:38:00. > :38:04.training is put in place so that we can deliver growth for the United
:38:04. > :38:08.Kingdom? About my Right Honourable Friend raises a very important
:38:08. > :38:15.point which is that the growth of the economy around Aberdeen at
:38:15. > :38:20.linked to North Sea oil has been successful. I want to see that took
:38:20. > :38:25.it -- I want to see that expand and I will speak to and later at to see
:38:25. > :38:33.what he can advise. We now go across to College Green
:38:33. > :38:38.to our correspondent. We have had to reshuffles already.
:38:38. > :38:43.They are like buses, aren't they? To come along within a couple of
:38:43. > :38:47.days after Europe waited for readers. At see-sawed from Prime
:38:47. > :38:54.Minister's questions the whole idea that something must be done it took
:38:54. > :39:01.get something moving again it has been key. We are now joined to
:39:01. > :39:03.discuss that issue. We heard you there at Prime
:39:04. > :39:07.Minister's Question Time saying that unless we get right people
:39:07. > :39:11.trained we will not be able to take a bandage of the economy. More
:39:11. > :39:15.broadly on the reshuffle itself, are you now confident that the
:39:15. > :39:18.right people and the right positions to get the economy
:39:18. > :39:23.moving? To be honest I do not know because people have been put into
:39:23. > :39:27.jobs to do not have a track record necessarily in that area. We will
:39:27. > :39:32.have to see. The point I would make his, the shovels do not really
:39:32. > :39:36.matter to the outside world. What matters is, do they make their
:39:36. > :39:40.Government function better? The Prime Minister says he has put
:39:41. > :39:44.people in that will deliver on the policies already agreed. As a
:39:44. > :39:48.coalition partner at that comforts me because we are in a coalition
:39:48. > :39:52.and we need people to deliver on the agreement we have up to get the
:39:52. > :39:58.economy moving. Their own view is that you cannot judge a reshuffle
:39:58. > :40:05.the day after you have to judge it 12 months after. It is refreshing
:40:05. > :40:09.to hear you say you do not know. It does raise the question as to why
:40:09. > :40:14.they were not in these positions before? But do not think that is
:40:14. > :40:18.the case. Governments always need to refresh. You do not want to
:40:18. > :40:22.teach people too often though. People do need a couple of years to
:40:22. > :40:25.do a job properly. I think it is perfectly reasonable but people get
:40:25. > :40:29.over excited about reshuffles. Quite rightly the Government will
:40:29. > :40:33.be judged in the end on whether it can deliver growth. The background
:40:33. > :40:37.is not where we would wish it to be although it is better than many of
:40:37. > :40:42.our it competitors. Inflation is coming down and interest rates are
:40:42. > :40:45.extremely low. I was picking get confidence and investment and the
:40:45. > :40:49.construction industry going then we will not get growth. That is what
:40:49. > :40:52.we are concentrating on and tried to deliver.
:40:52. > :40:58.It is not necessarily the people and the positions, it is what they
:40:58. > :41:01.do that is important. Have you seen anything that might make you think
:41:01. > :41:05.that this coalition Government is addressing these problems in the
:41:05. > :41:09.last 24 hours? It is in no change reshuffle and there will be no
:41:09. > :41:12.change in the economy. The Prime Minister set up a sub-committee of
:41:12. > :41:16.the Cabinet today to remove the abstractions to economic recovery.
:41:16. > :41:22.If he wanted to do that then he should have sacked as Chancellor
:41:22. > :41:26.and, with the new policy today on growth and on spending and on the
:41:27. > :41:33.rest. You have lots of organisations all saying that
:41:33. > :41:37.austerity has failed. For every �2 of cuts this Government is making
:41:37. > :41:41.there is only �1 coming of their deficit. It is failing on its own
:41:41. > :41:47.terms, we need a new plan for jobs and growth today.
:41:47. > :41:51.Would you agree that we now need a second plan? Absolutely, what we're
:41:51. > :41:54.that a reshuffle of what we needed was a rethink on economic policy.
:41:54. > :41:57.At Prime Minister's Questions today he was challenged on three of the
:41:57. > :42:02.things that he said last time that he produced a programme for growth,
:42:02. > :42:07.there was no growth, we're in a double-dip recession. The people
:42:07. > :42:10.out there that are unemployed will be gobsmacked in this UK reshuffle.
:42:10. > :42:14.The one person that it his job was the Chancellor who was a major
:42:14. > :42:17.roadblock to the kind of policies we need to actually kicks that
:42:17. > :42:20.their economy again. The Archdruid from this Government
:42:20. > :42:25.has always been that it year marks out a credit card it does not do
:42:25. > :42:29.any good to try to spend even more on that credit card. That is as
:42:29. > :42:35.simple soundbite and commonsense would say do not borrow when you
:42:35. > :42:40.have Max doubt. But if you tell Rose and stimulus NEC the crushing
:42:40. > :42:43.impact that we have seen on the construction sector. We need to
:42:44. > :42:47.shove already projects with direct capital investment. It is most
:42:47. > :42:51.effective and efficient thing that any Government can do to deliver
:42:51. > :42:55.growth and get the economy moving again.
:42:55. > :42:59.The Government accepts that and is not wanting to not do that, they
:42:59. > :43:04.just do not want to borrow to do it, we want to report that the packages
:43:04. > :43:07.we have. We're looking at their low credit rating to get underwriting
:43:07. > :43:12.into private sector projects which will move forward in the next year
:43:12. > :43:16.or so. If you start borrowing then interest rates go up.
:43:16. > :43:19.They is an argument that as the markets take fright it does not
:43:19. > :43:25.matter what else you were doing. If you're fighting the markets you
:43:25. > :43:30.will never be able to have gross. What you see in America and Japan
:43:30. > :43:33.is lower interest rates as well. All countries that can bring their
:43:33. > :43:37.own currency have low long-term interest rates at the moment that
:43:37. > :43:40.is the fact, but we have weak growth in Britain because we have
:43:40. > :43:44.Business Supplies is that are going to know productive use in the
:43:44. > :43:48.economy at all. Alice the Government sort that out and sorts
:43:48. > :43:51.out the shortage of demand then the crisis of under employment with
:43:51. > :43:58.250,000 people in Scotland desperate for full-time work that
:43:58. > :44:02.cannot get it, unless you address the issue of wages that are falling
:44:02. > :44:07.quarter by quarter, they will not address the weaknesses in the
:44:07. > :44:14.economy. I am not denying that this is a serious situation and people
:44:14. > :44:18.are suffering. What I reject is that this quick fix idea with
:44:18. > :44:22.spending and borrowing will solve the problem. Have you as you will
:44:22. > :44:26.make it works. I'd really have to look at spending and it could be
:44:26. > :44:30.more constructive discussion between the parties on that. You
:44:31. > :44:35.cannot borrow your way to growth. No one wants to see borrowing rise
:44:35. > :44:40.for ever and everyone knows the deficit must be tackled. But we
:44:40. > :44:44.will not be able to tackle the deficit and eventually that it is
:44:44. > :44:48.the economy continues to flat line and we have no growth. Right now
:44:48. > :44:53.because there is stagnation in the global economy, the UK Government
:44:53. > :45:03.is to use the tools it has which is investment in shovel ready projects
:45:03. > :45:06.
:45:06. > :45:09.to kick-start the economy and the Willie Rennie, final word to you -
:45:09. > :45:13.will anything the Government has proposed, will it, as you say,
:45:13. > :45:18.solve that problem of lack of demand? It won't because we have a
:45:18. > :45:21.perfect storm where there is massive unemployment. There is
:45:21. > :45:23.productive labour that is not being properly utilised in the economy,
:45:23. > :45:28.real wages falling and the construction and manufacturing
:45:28. > :45:32.sectors in crisis. Unless the Government comes up with a plan
:45:32. > :45:35.that is different on spending and borrowing, you'll not address that
:45:35. > :45:39.fundamental weakness in the economy. Thank you very much.
:45:39. > :45:42.I think, Andrew, as you get a flavour there that despite what
:45:42. > :45:47.happens with the personalities in Government reshuffles, as our
:45:47. > :45:51.colleagues have been saying here, it is the economy that is going to
:45:51. > :45:54.remain the important political issue at Westminster. David Porter
:45:54. > :45:58.at Westminster, thank you very much. Let's head back to Holyrood for
:45:58. > :46:01.more on the mini-reshuffle in the Scottish Government and also the
:46:01. > :46:04.legislative programme that was announced yesterday. I am joined by
:46:04. > :46:08.Willie Rennie, the leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats and
:46:08. > :46:12.Patrick Harvie, the co-convener of the Scottish Greens. Good afternoon,
:46:12. > :46:18.gentlemen. Thank you very much for joining me. Patrick Harvie, as
:46:18. > :46:22.you're an ardent Nationalist and an ardent supporter of independence
:46:22. > :46:24.joining Mr Salmond and the campaign states you must we can Nicola
:46:24. > :46:29.Sturgeon taking this role in the fight for independence? I think
:46:29. > :46:31.Nicola will take on that job with great enthusiasm. I have to say I
:46:31. > :46:35.am very much a supporter of independence but not a Nationalist.
:46:35. > :46:37.You don't have to be a Nationalist to have a view about where the
:46:37. > :46:41.right level of Sovereignty should like, whether that's people who
:46:41. > :46:46.support the UK or people who support Scottish independence, so
:46:46. > :46:50.I'm hoping that the programme for Government starts to articulate
:46:50. > :46:57.some of the ideas about the kind of independent Scotland we could be.
:46:57. > :47:02.An issue that Willie and I probably agree strong loin, the same-sex
:47:02. > :47:03.marriage, does start to articulate. It says we want to be an inclusive
:47:03. > :47:06.Scotland. There are other opportunities to start talking
:47:06. > :47:11.about the different kinds of economy we can have in Scotland, a
:47:11. > :47:14.different kind of taxation and welfare system we could have in a
:47:14. > :47:17.independent Scotland. I think if we can project that, what we can
:47:17. > :47:20.achieve for our country with independence, then all parties can
:47:20. > :47:24.contribute to that and hopefully the people of Scotland will make
:47:24. > :47:27.the best informed decision they can in 2014. At the moment, the Holy
:47:27. > :47:34.Grail for politicians is the search for economic growth, and Nicola
:47:34. > :47:38.Sturgeon has been tasked with trying to get that going, but you
:47:38. > :47:41.took a rather different view in economic growth, don't you? Do you
:47:41. > :47:45.see economic growth as always a good thing? Economic growth can be
:47:45. > :47:49.a good and a negative thing, and it's port if we think about
:47:49. > :47:54.economic recovery to ask what does recovery mean? That to me doesn't
:47:54. > :47:57.just mean the trying to reanimate the corpse of the economy that just
:47:57. > :48:01.collapsed, trying to refloat a failed economic model. It means
:48:01. > :48:04.taking a view about the equality between people this Scotland in
:48:04. > :48:09.society. It means taking a view about sustainability and a low-
:48:09. > :48:12.carbon economy. These things matter at least as much as just GDP. GDP
:48:12. > :48:17.tells you how much money is swilling around the economy. It
:48:17. > :48:22.doesn't tell you whether it's being generated in a way that's divisive
:48:22. > :48:25.or improves solidarity and sustainability in society, so we
:48:25. > :48:28.take a very different view about what economic recovery means, and
:48:28. > :48:32.we'll bring some of those debates into the chamber I hope in the next
:48:32. > :48:35.few weeks and months. You have put out a statement this afternoon
:48:35. > :48:39.saying Nicola Sturgeon is the Minister for Independence, but do
:48:39. > :48:43.you not admit perhaps the SNP have come up with quite a good idea here
:48:43. > :48:46.- they're marrying the twin themes of the economy and independence?
:48:46. > :48:49.They see the two as inextricably linked, and that's what they're
:48:49. > :48:55.doing. They have a real focus on the economy and not just
:48:55. > :49:01.independence. When the SNP went to the polls in May 2011, they said
:49:01. > :49:05.people - their focus was going to be on running the country. They got
:49:05. > :49:08.re-elected on the basis of Alex Salmond saying do no bad. Their
:49:08. > :49:13.focus has shifted from running the country to actually trying to run
:49:13. > :49:15.and win the referendum. We're seeing an increasing number of
:49:15. > :49:18.civil servants, increasing resources from the Civil Service
:49:18. > :49:21.being used to win the SNP's ambition of independence. I think
:49:22. > :49:24.we'll suffer as a result, because the focus will move away from that.
:49:24. > :49:28.This is about running the country in one of the most difficult times
:49:28. > :49:32.in our history, and all we see is them running the referendum. I
:49:32. > :49:35.think that's a bad thing for Scotland. Do you not see their
:49:35. > :49:38.argument? They argue obviously they believe that independence is the
:49:38. > :49:42.only way that you can achieve proper economic growth. Do you not
:49:42. > :49:46.see their point in their argument? If that was the case, why are they
:49:46. > :49:50.not having the referendum now? If they think the dead hand of
:49:50. > :49:54.Westminster is so debilitating, is having such a crippling effect on
:49:54. > :49:57.Scotland, why are they waiting another two years from now - three
:49:57. > :50:01.years from when they were elected? This is not a Government that
:50:01. > :50:05.really believes in its own policy. They're redefining it. They're
:50:05. > :50:08.trying to include bits of the British state they did not support.
:50:08. > :50:12.They detest. This is a Government that's actually afraid, that's
:50:12. > :50:16.trying to work out ways of tricking people into supporting independence,
:50:16. > :50:19.and I think we should have nothing of it. They may not be trying to
:50:19. > :50:21.trick people. We have been speaking to the SNP already today, but
:50:21. > :50:26.looking at the agreement from the UK Government, how is that
:50:26. > :50:29.progressing? And obviously the SNP have what they want to get out of
:50:29. > :50:33.the referendum - their opinions and what they want to get out of it,
:50:33. > :50:37.and the UK Government have their opinions, so how close are we to
:50:37. > :50:40.coming to an agreement there, do you think? I'm hoping we're going
:50:40. > :50:44.to get an agreement quickly and from my discussions with my
:50:44. > :50:48.colleagues at Westminster, the signs are good. We will get a
:50:48. > :50:51.referendum that is a single question that actually sorts out
:50:51. > :50:55.the nature of the question, the franchise but also the timing, and
:50:55. > :51:00.I think the sooner we can get on with the details of the debate -
:51:00. > :51:03.some of the issues Patrick was raising about what's Scotland going
:51:03. > :51:07.to look like - the defence system, international relations - all these
:51:07. > :51:10.things are important. I believe Britain gives us a huge platform, a
:51:10. > :51:16.great platform on which to launch Scotland to the world. Obviously,
:51:16. > :51:21.the SNP are more interested in splitting us off. Thank you both
:51:21. > :51:24.very much for joining me. Let's get some more thoughts in the
:51:24. > :51:27.company of our political commentator for the afternoon,
:51:27. > :51:30.Professor John Curtice. Speaking to everyone this afternoon we do get
:51:30. > :51:34.that impression we're heading towards some kind of agreement on
:51:34. > :51:38.the referendum, don't we? It does sound as though we're heading
:51:38. > :51:42.towards some sort of agreement. Certainly, everybody seems to be
:51:42. > :51:46.putting that sort of mood music forward. The only form of agreement
:51:46. > :51:50.one can envisage is one in which there is only a single question
:51:51. > :51:53.rather than two questions. Of course, it raises an interesting
:51:53. > :51:57.question about how the SNP might necessarily approach that. Will
:51:57. > :52:00.they say, well, at the end of the day, our consultation said that's
:52:00. > :52:04.really what people wanted and was always their first preference, so
:52:04. > :52:09.we're happy with it? Or will they want to say, look, actually, we
:52:09. > :52:11.really wanted to have two questions. This is what our consultation was
:52:11. > :52:17.indicating, but Westminster aren't stopping us, and to use that as an
:52:17. > :52:21.indication to say to people, look, if you really want Scotland to be
:52:21. > :52:24.autonomous and to earn its own tax and welfare benefits, the only
:52:24. > :52:29.package on offer is independence. Therefore, that's what you're going
:52:29. > :52:32.to have to vote for - it will be very interesting to see how the SNP
:52:32. > :52:36.is going to react to and spin an agreement with the UK Government if
:52:36. > :52:39.indeed an agreement is achieved. Briefly, the red lines Willie
:52:39. > :52:45.Rennie was talking about, the franchise, the two questions...
:52:45. > :52:49.only red lines between the two governments according to the inside
:52:49. > :52:52.information seems to be one question versus two. The UK
:52:52. > :52:56.Government might be willing to concede on the franchise, difficult
:52:56. > :53:00.though it is in practise to get 16 votes. The dates have long since
:53:00. > :53:05.been forgotten about. The only question really at the heart here
:53:05. > :53:09.is one question or two? The date is the only thing we're unsure of.
:53:09. > :53:17.Indeed. If it's an agreement between the two governments, one
:53:17. > :53:21.presumes it will be an order that'll allow the Holyrood to run
:53:21. > :53:28.this between now and 2013. Here's a I flavour of what the First
:53:28. > :53:33.Minister had to say about the new team as he entered Parliament
:53:33. > :53:37.earlier. I am in the fortunate position - perhaps in contrast to
:53:37. > :53:40.the Prime Minister - I have a range of talented people and a limited
:53:40. > :53:47.number of posts to put them in, but I am very happy with the team I
:53:47. > :53:54.have got to take Scotland forward. The First Minister there. Now we
:53:54. > :53:55.can cross back to the Garden Lobby where we're joined by two
:53:55. > :53:57.parliamentary journalists, Alan Cochrane, the Telegraph's Scottish
:53:57. > :53:59.Editor and Robbie Dinwoodie, the Chief Scottish Political
:53:59. > :54:03.Correspondent from the Herald. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for
:54:03. > :54:08.joining me. First to you, Alan. Did the Lobby know this was going to
:54:08. > :54:13.happen? Did it come as a bit of a surprise? A big surprise. The only
:54:13. > :54:18.one who knew that Bruce Crawford had a sad summer - well, it took us
:54:18. > :54:22.- me by surprise, anyway, that he decided to retire from the game
:54:22. > :54:28.altogether, and the bigger surprise, of course is Alex Salmond has put
:54:28. > :54:32.Nicola Sturgeon into this front- line role. It changes the tempo and
:54:32. > :54:36.perhaps the style of the debate now now that Nicola is doing it. Robbie,
:54:36. > :54:39.do you think Alan is speaking about changing the tempo and style - do
:54:39. > :54:43.you think she has been put in there to really fight the Scottish
:54:43. > :54:47.Government's corner with the UK Government? Absolutely - not that I
:54:47. > :54:51.think Bruce Crawford wasn't doing that anyway. Everyone admires the
:54:51. > :54:55.job he did keeping the minority administration together. Everyone
:54:55. > :54:59.knows how well he negotiated in terms of the referendum deal, but
:55:00. > :55:03.Nicola will bring something new to it, something fresh to it. She's
:55:03. > :55:10.already on the board of the Scotland campaign. So I think in
:55:10. > :55:15.the unfortunate loss of Bruce Crawford an opportunity has arisen,
:55:15. > :55:18.and that's why Nicola's role has been so expanded. I suppose now she
:55:18. > :55:22.has been divested of the controversial same-sex marriage
:55:22. > :55:29.legislation, which will help. She'll be able to fly away from
:55:29. > :55:34.that and won't be hindered by that. Also, Alex Neil has the pick that
:55:34. > :55:37.up along with the responsibility for the biggest single subject
:55:37. > :55:41.brief there is. The Health Service is a massive job, and they have put
:55:42. > :55:45.a bruiser and a tough man into that job. Do you think we could still
:55:45. > :55:50.see health coming up to trip up the Scottish Government in the next
:55:50. > :55:56.couple of years? Sorry. I think health is an important one. But I
:55:56. > :56:01.think everyone's minds, if you don't mind me saying so, is focused
:56:02. > :56:05.on, will Nicola sell the jerseys? There there be a change in the
:56:05. > :56:10.attitude towards negotiations? As John was saying a moment ago, is
:56:10. > :56:13.there now going to be not so much a deal as a surrender by the
:56:13. > :56:17.Nationalists from two questions to one? That's the big question, the
:56:17. > :56:21.only question I am interested in, and I suspect most people in here.
:56:21. > :56:31.We have a couple new faces, Joe Fitzpatrick, parliamentary business
:56:31. > :56:36.manager - a bit of a technocrat, I spoke, but Hmu za Yousef, as well,
:56:36. > :56:40.a well-known face. That's good move for the minority community, but we
:56:40. > :56:44.have another minority community in Joe Fitzpatrick from Dundee coming
:56:44. > :56:48.in. Robbie Dinwoodie, we have the discussion going on tomorrow
:56:48. > :56:52.between Nicola Sturgeon and David Mundel. I looks like these
:56:52. > :56:57.discussions are really hotting up, doesn't it? She's pitched straight
:56:57. > :57:01.into the negotiations. The point is that I think at the end of the day
:57:01. > :57:05.there was always only going to be a straight yes-no question. It's just
:57:05. > :57:09.that the SNP want to be able to point their finger at Westminster
:57:09. > :57:13.for denying the option. And Alan Cochrane, we're coming up to
:57:13. > :57:17.conference time, of course, the SNP conference in mid-October. Do you
:57:17. > :57:21.think Alex Salmond really needs to have a full package ready to
:57:21. > :57:24.present to the troops at conference time when it comes to the
:57:24. > :57:27.referendum? I don't think the Nationalist activists - the members
:57:27. > :57:31.- are at all interested in two questions. Going back to the
:57:31. > :57:35.conference last year, most of them wanted one question. I think Nicola
:57:35. > :57:40.Sturgeon is of that view on that wing of the party, and I think that
:57:40. > :57:46.if there is to be one question, it will be seen as a victory for the
:57:46. > :57:48.activists in the SNP, but it is a significant concession, retreat by
:57:48. > :57:53.Alex Salmond. Robbie Dinwoodie, do you think it's a significant
:57:53. > :57:56.concession by Alex Salmond if they do have one question, perhaps?S
:57:56. > :58:00.that two-question argument not just been a bit of an extra discussion
:58:00. > :58:03.on the side? No, I think it has been a tactic. I think it has been
:58:03. > :58:09.a fight for the middle ground. People who want more devolution but
:58:09. > :58:13.not independence - the question, once it crystallises, which way
:58:13. > :58:19.will they go? I think that's the battle now. Alan, what about you?
:58:19. > :58:23.This is just the new spin. They said we never wanted two questions
:58:23. > :58:29.in the first place but of course they did. Now they know they're not
:58:29. > :58:32.going to get them, they're pretending they didn't want them.
:58:32. > :58:35.It's rubbish. Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining me. My thanks
:58:35. > :58:38.to Professor John Curtice, who has been with me in the studio for the
:58:38. > :58:43.afternoon. Eaths that's all we have time for