:00:16. > :00:19.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up - the Scottish
:00:19. > :00:23.government's budget will go through at Holyrood this afternoon, but the
:00:23. > :00:33.opposition continue to fight for changes. There could be more money
:00:33. > :00:33.
:00:33. > :00:39.for colleges and housing. And here at Westminster, up concerns about
:00:39. > :00:42.changes to the benefit system and what we will end up paying for the
:00:42. > :00:49.banks' bad behaviour. The finishing touches are being put
:00:49. > :00:55.to Scotland's budget. �30 billion are being allocated across
:00:55. > :01:04.government departments. He says he wants to create jobs and boost
:01:04. > :01:08.growth. The SNP has a majority here at
:01:08. > :01:15.Holyrood. John Swinney knows that and knows he has to give no
:01:15. > :01:19.concessions to the opposition parties. None the less, in terms of
:01:19. > :01:24.politics in these troubled times, the finance secretary has shown
:01:24. > :01:29.that willingness to reach out to the opposition. I suspect he will
:01:29. > :01:37.give way on a couple of issues. Money for colleges has become a
:01:37. > :01:43.very hot potato and also more capital investment for housing. The
:01:43. > :01:50.opposition parties what it and it is part of his strategy to increase
:01:50. > :01:58.housing. There is only so far the finance secretary can call because
:01:58. > :02:04.he is dealing with a very tight budget. He is not hearing many
:02:04. > :02:08.calls for ways in which people will find extra cash.
:02:08. > :02:17.The EMS peas will be debating that in just a moment and I am joined
:02:17. > :02:22.from Holyrood by Murdo Fraser from the Scottish Conservatives, Ken
:02:22. > :02:28.Macintosh of Labour and Stuart Maxwell from the SNP. Murdo Fraser,
:02:28. > :02:32.first of all, we heard a couple of issues Brian Taylor picked up on
:02:32. > :02:38.there. What are you calling for in this budget and are you expecting
:02:39. > :02:47.any changes? Their three principle calls - for college house in which
:02:47. > :02:51.we think is wrong to have its budget cut. We're concerned about
:02:51. > :02:56.cuts in the housing budget because we are spending money on capital
:02:57. > :03:04.infrastructure which does not make sense. We're concerned about taxes
:03:04. > :03:09.on businesses. The Scottish government's budget is rejecting an
:03:09. > :03:13.additional amount of revenue from business rates over the next few
:03:13. > :03:21.years. Businesses will have to find that money and we do not know what
:03:21. > :03:26.John Swinney will do but will find out in the next few minutes.
:03:26. > :03:31.Macintosh, you are echoing some of those calls. Have you been meeting
:03:31. > :03:38.to put most points to the finance secretary? Up we have. He has
:03:38. > :03:46.invited us and twice all rely will be absolutely honest. It felt like
:03:46. > :03:51.going through the motions rather than a genuine attempt to reach out.
:03:51. > :03:55.We want to put employment and the economy at the heart of his budget.
:03:55. > :04:02.There are others who are calling For Housing and colleges in
:04:02. > :04:08.particular. It is across the economy. The whole country has
:04:08. > :04:15.recognised that cutting College and housing budgets in a recession is
:04:15. > :04:25.economic suicide and John Swinney is not listening to this. You are
:04:25. > :04:28.hearing that, has John Swinney been listening to these calls? It is not
:04:28. > :04:33.like the old days where he had to listen to the opposition that he
:04:33. > :04:37.can now do what he likes? It is very clear that he has been
:04:37. > :04:42.listening very closely both to those within the parliament and
:04:42. > :04:49.also those outside who obviously bring a great deal of expertise to
:04:49. > :04:53.these areas. The SNP and the Scottish government has been
:04:53. > :04:58.investing greatly in some sectors ignored by the other parties. There
:04:58. > :05:02.are a number of extra financial announcements over the years. The
:05:02. > :05:06.fact remains that in the face of the cut to the capital budget, the
:05:06. > :05:11.Scottish government is less than a very difficult position for sup
:05:11. > :05:16.this is meant to be a Budget for jobs and growth and surely a
:05:16. > :05:25.reversing the cuts is a way to tackle the youth unemployment
:05:25. > :05:29.crisis? It has doubled since 2007. Given the economic crisis in the UK
:05:29. > :05:35.and elsewhere, we are in a very difficult position. This Budget
:05:35. > :05:40.will be focused on jobs and economic growth and young people.
:05:40. > :05:44.The cuts from Westminster are not helping the situation one that. I
:05:44. > :05:49.am sure John Swinney has heard the calls from opposition parties and
:05:49. > :05:53.others and will make sure this Budget is focused on capital
:05:53. > :06:01.investment. We'll make sure to squeeze every single pound we're
:06:01. > :06:05.supplied. The finance secretary is listening but when Labour make
:06:05. > :06:11.these extra calls, when you add up all the extra commitments there is
:06:11. > :06:16.no way to balance the budget. have not called for anything that
:06:16. > :06:21.is affordable. We have made some very modest and reasonable calls.
:06:21. > :06:27.The SNP failed to deliver a Budget for growth and jobs last time.
:06:27. > :06:35.Whatever they are doing it is not working. What I would suggest is
:06:35. > :06:40.that the cuts to colleges were made by the SNP Government. There was a
:06:40. > :06:46.26% cut in the capital budget and you cannot afford the reality.
:06:46. > :06:50.Scottish government has the choice of what to do. The SNP want it both
:06:50. > :06:58.ways. They say they are trying to deliver a Budget for capital
:06:58. > :07:03.investment but they're making the wrong choices at the wrong time.
:07:03. > :07:13.Let's put that 0.2 the Tories. Everyone is having a go at you
:07:13. > :07:16.
:07:16. > :07:21.there. -- point to the Tories. overall budget in cash terms this
:07:21. > :07:25.year is higher than it was last year by a factor of �7 million.
:07:25. > :07:31.That is not a huge amount of money but in cash terms he has more to
:07:31. > :07:38.spend this year than last year. Where he has money to manage, he is
:07:38. > :07:43.not managing it well. Money was supposed to come forward and the
:07:43. > :07:49.current financial year but we are not getting all of it. Before he
:07:49. > :07:54.starts complaining about the image he has, to demonstrate -- he has to
:07:54. > :07:58.demonstrate he can use the image he has more responsibly. By Hugh to
:07:58. > :08:03.you all for joining us this after noon.
:08:03. > :08:13.I am joined in the studio by Angus MacLeod the Scottish editor of the
:08:13. > :08:15.
:08:15. > :08:19.times. -- The Times. The SNP say they're struggling with those cuts
:08:19. > :08:23.from Westminster. Up there was quite a big hint from Stuart
:08:23. > :08:27.Maxwell there when he said that John Swinney had been listening
:08:27. > :08:34.that there will be some more money sometime this afternoon for housing
:08:34. > :08:37.and colleges. That brings us on to the question of how much? The
:08:37. > :08:42.housing and construction sector might be partly satisfied but I do
:08:42. > :08:46.not think he will produce enough to really alleviate the suspicions and
:08:46. > :08:56.the worries of the further education sector. He may produce
:08:56. > :08:57.
:08:57. > :09:01.some but probably nowhere near enough. The present economic
:09:02. > :09:08.straitjacket John Swinney is operating in, so much currently
:09:08. > :09:12.goes to wages and salaries and the public sector through necessity.
:09:12. > :09:17.Even if we live in a booming economy, even then he would have
:09:17. > :09:24.very little room for manoeuvre. Quite honestly, a lot is going to
:09:24. > :09:27.have to be done and to be made of a comparatively small amount of money.
:09:27. > :09:35.It is interesting that you point out there that he can give a little
:09:35. > :09:37.bit more but perhaps not that much. In the old days, they had this
:09:37. > :09:47.majority in the parliamentary arithmetic and may have had a lot
:09:47. > :09:50.more to work with. Politically, the situation with colleges has damaged
:09:50. > :09:57.the SNP Government because it affects young people trying to make
:09:57. > :10:01.their way in the world. That has been a serious misjudgment. In the
:10:01. > :10:06.construction sector, a lot of economists say this is an area
:10:06. > :10:14.which actually serves to provide some ballast for an economy which
:10:14. > :10:18.is otherwise misfiring. Whether in fact he will produce enough in
:10:18. > :10:24.either area is a key point and I do not think he can do the at. Back
:10:24. > :10:29.with you short way but let's go now to the chamber.
:10:29. > :10:37.John Swinney has just taken to his feet and so far he has set out the
:10:37. > :10:43.constraints in which he is operating. The Scottish economy has
:10:43. > :10:48.come to growth by 0.6 per cent in 2012. Unemployment continued to
:10:48. > :10:52.fall with a significant fall in UK unemployment combined with
:10:52. > :10:58.encouraging news on growth in export sales. This demonstrates
:10:58. > :11:03.progress is being made. Despite this, we are clear that more needs
:11:03. > :11:08.to be done. This bill seeks to boost economic recovery by
:11:08. > :11:11.developing jobs and supporting people into employment and
:11:11. > :11:17.supporting Scottish businesses. This provides for the most
:11:17. > :11:20.competitive tax regime in any part of the United Kingdom and delivers
:11:20. > :11:26.our commitment to a good social wage and provides funding for key
:11:26. > :11:32.measures such as the council tax freeze, free prescriptions at eye
:11:32. > :11:38.tests. It takes for work an ambitious programme of reform based
:11:38. > :11:42.on the four pillars of better partnership, investing in people
:11:42. > :11:47.who deliver services, a public service culture which the lovers
:11:47. > :11:52.standards of performance and a decisive shift in favour of
:11:53. > :12:02.prevented of spending. -- delivers standards. We're taking forward the
:12:02. > :12:07.changes announced in the spending review. Later this year, the
:12:07. > :12:13.children and Young People Bill will increase entitlement to child care
:12:13. > :12:17.from 475 hours to 600 hours for up children up to four years old.
:12:17. > :12:24.These are significant expansion is set alongside another range of
:12:24. > :12:29.measures we are undertaking. The Bill also maintains the
:12:29. > :12:34.government's commitment to infrastructure investment. We are
:12:34. > :12:44.using every leva at our disposal to mitigate the impact of the Severe
:12:44. > :12:49.
:12:49. > :12:54.cuts the UK Government has made. In 2013-14, the figures are planned to
:12:54. > :13:00.rise to �3.4 billion. Nine of the major infrastructure investment
:13:00. > :13:07.programmes are valued at over �600 million, they are completed and are
:13:07. > :13:15.now of use. We're taking four were projects such as the heat 4th
:13:15. > :13:21.replacement crossings. The total value of projects that have entered
:13:21. > :13:30.procurement or development is now at �1.6 billion and we are on track
:13:30. > :13:34.to meet our target of delivering 30,000 affordable homes. He keeps
:13:34. > :13:44.talking about procurement but how much will actually be delivered on
:13:44. > :13:48.
:13:48. > :13:55.the ground next year for 2013-14? We plant at total amount of capital
:13:55. > :14:01.expenditure of �3.4 billion. This is based on a conventional capital
:14:01. > :14:11.budget of �2.7 billion, the remainder coming from NPD and
:14:11. > :14:19.
:14:19. > :14:24.It is with this approach that I have considered again what steps I
:14:24. > :14:29.can take to increase the impact of our capital expenditure programme.
:14:29. > :14:35.I have agreed with Scottish Water to reduce their draw down of loans
:14:35. > :14:42.by �5 million, while maintaining their investment programme. We plan
:14:42. > :14:45.to invest over �400 million in low carbon activity. Demand for
:14:45. > :14:50.financial support from the renewable energy infrastructure
:14:50. > :14:55.fund is lower than expected and I intend to release �15 million for
:14:55. > :15:01.other projects. While ensuring that funding drawn down from the fossil
:15:01. > :15:05.fuel levy surplus will be deployed to support renewable projects. Our
:15:05. > :15:09.budget has been cut by more than a quarter, but when ever we have had
:15:09. > :15:19.an opportunity to increase investment in housing, that is what
:15:19. > :15:22.
:15:22. > :15:26.we have done. Announcing additional investment of �200 million. We have
:15:26. > :15:30.investment split between several programmes. We will invest a
:15:30. > :15:39.further �10 million in the affordable housing supply programme
:15:39. > :15:47.and invest �4 million in preventive adaptations. We will invest �24
:15:47. > :15:53.million in sustainability measures in the housing sector. �10 more for
:15:53. > :15:59.the retro fit programme and to extend the energy assistance
:15:59. > :16:04.package and for the greener homes innovation scheme and funding to
:16:04. > :16:11.bring new affordable homes to silver energy efficiency standard.
:16:11. > :16:15.I will do. Thank you. These are measures which are going to be felt
:16:15. > :16:22.directly by families, families who are being hurt very hard by the
:16:22. > :16:28.cuts. And the greater number of cuts that are to come. To avoid
:16:28. > :16:33.people take out pay day loans, he knows that I have favoured an
:16:33. > :16:41.expansion of the credit union system. Can he co-Ig -- do anything
:16:41. > :16:46.to kick-start that? The Government has supported credit unions to the
:16:46. > :16:51.tune of �1.3 billion. There are other funding streams that have
:16:51. > :16:56.been available and I expect further measures to be available through
:16:56. > :17:02.third sector funding arrangements. I recognise the long-standing she
:17:02. > :17:08.has in these issues. The housing measures combined will deliver
:17:08. > :17:12.around 350 new social and other homes. Around 2,000 preventative
:17:12. > :17:17.adaptation and greater energy efficiency in 8 thousand how
:17:17. > :17:23.households. This represents further additional investment in housing,
:17:23. > :17:29.providing new homes and improving our existing stock. Cutting
:17:29. > :17:32.emissions and supporting an estimated 800 jobs with additional
:17:32. > :17:37.expenditure of �38 million. I can tell Parliament over the three
:17:37. > :17:47.years of spending review the total investment by the Government in
:17:47. > :17:49.
:17:49. > :17:53.housing supply will be 859 million pounds. APPLAUSE. If Mr Rennie will
:17:53. > :17:59.forgive Americas I have more ground to cover. Another significant
:17:59. > :18:04.contributor to economic activity is a balanced package of investment in
:18:04. > :18:09.public transport and roads infrastructure. Ry pound spent on
:18:09. > :18:19.road maintenance provides a benefit of �1.50 to the economy. I confirm
:18:19. > :18:25.I will invest �10 million in trunk road maintenance in 2013/14. The
:18:25. > :18:29.Government strives to identify new mean os -- means of driving
:18:29. > :18:33.recovery. So I have two new policies to support growth. We will
:18:33. > :18:40.invest �2 million in a fund to enable housing providers to test
:18:40. > :18:45.out the development of affordable housing in vacant town centre
:18:45. > :18:51.properties. This will help meet our commitment to deliver quality home
:18:51. > :18:56.and bring empty home back into use and support key themes from the
:18:56. > :19:02.town centre review, promoting our town centres as places to live and
:19:02. > :19:08.work. Second, if Mr Baker will forgive me for a moment. Scotland
:19:08. > :19:12.has a reputation for pripship and we need to capitalise on these
:19:12. > :19:16.strengths. -- entrepreneurship. We will support small businesses ready
:19:16. > :19:21.to grow, but struggling to access finance. I have been struck by the
:19:21. > :19:26.number of lie quality applications the fund has received and I confirm
:19:26. > :19:30.I will add a further �1 million to the fund, doubling the amount the
:19:30. > :19:35.Government is making available to some of Scotland's most ambitious
:19:35. > :19:41.entrepreneurs. I will give way to Mr Rennie. I welcome the additional
:19:41. > :19:46.investment in housing. That is a welcome development. He referred to
:19:46. > :19:51.child care nursery edge case. I was giving him time to explore the
:19:51. > :19:57.possibility of additional funding. Is he minded to invest more in that
:19:57. > :20:00.area? I have considered the points that he has advanced to me. My view
:20:00. > :20:04.is given the financial pressures that we face, the approach the
:20:04. > :20:09.Government plans to take with the expansion of child provision for
:20:09. > :20:14.three and four-year-olds is the light way to take that forward as
:20:14. > :20:19.part of the early years agenda. The Government is taking foree forward
:20:19. > :20:26.a programme of post 16 education reform. Our objectives were for a
:20:26. > :20:31.system better aligned with jobs ooh growth. But improved -- jobs and
:20:31. > :20:35.growth, but improved life chances. It will ensure our college sector
:20:35. > :20:39.can deliver high quality education and help learners get the skills
:20:39. > :20:42.they need for jobs. These objectives will be met, they will
:20:43. > :20:47.ensure our colleges deliver an improved student experience. A
:20:47. > :20:51.better service for employers. And long-term sustainability. We are
:20:51. > :20:55.also conscious of the need to help colleges maintain service for
:20:55. > :20:58.different learner groups, such as women who want to return to work
:20:58. > :21:03.and those who wrestle with disadvantage. The Government is
:21:03. > :21:09.committed to this process of reform and will ensure that it is
:21:09. > :21:13.implemented. Real progress has been made and we welcome the positive
:21:13. > :21:17.engage ment in reform. So I announce that the Government will
:21:17. > :21:25.make available the best deal question for colleges. We shall
:21:25. > :21:30.provide an additional �10 million in 2013/14 that. Increase will
:21:30. > :21:39.establish the college budget at �5 22 million in the next financial
:21:39. > :21:43.year. Our plan for 2014 would see further reduction in the college
:21:43. > :21:46.budget to �47 1 million. The Education Secretary and I want to
:21:46. > :21:52.give stability to young people and colleges in the final stage of
:21:52. > :21:59.reform. I confirm to Parliament that the college budget will be set
:21:59. > :22:04.in 2014 not at 47 1 million, not at 5 10 million, which Tuz the highest
:22:04. > :22:14.figure before we came to office. But at a level consi tents with
:22:14. > :22:21.
:22:21. > :22:27.2014 at �5 22 million. This means... APPLAUSE This means �5 22 million
:22:27. > :22:34.of resource funding each year for two years. And an extra �61 million
:22:34. > :22:43.over these two years. Allowing Scotland's colleges... Order.
:22:43. > :22:49.further o' ward with confidence and ambition to deliver the pram of --
:22:49. > :22:53.program of reform and we will decide how best to implement this
:22:54. > :23:00.funding. In providing this significant support, the Government
:23:00. > :23:03.is building on the steps we are taking to support young people into
:23:03. > :23:08.employment through our opportunities for all initiative
:23:08. > :23:12.and the abolition of tuition fees. When we have a record number of
:23:12. > :23:17.Scots in higher education and maintaining the number of college
:23:17. > :23:22.places and investing millions in the college estate and offering a
:23:22. > :23:29.record number of apprenticeships and offering 61 million pound of
:23:29. > :23:34.extra funding for secondor, this Government is invest Ogg --
:23:34. > :23:37.investing to deliver for Scotland's young people in the future.
:23:37. > :23:41.Scottish Government has delaifrd budget for growth. We are building
:23:41. > :23:44.on our original spending plans, having listened to the views of
:23:44. > :23:50.Parliament and the country and are delivering extra funding for
:23:50. > :23:54.housing, creating jobs and cutting emissions. Funding to regenerate
:23:54. > :23:58.our town centres, more support for entrepreneurs and investment in our
:23:58. > :24:03.roads and a further investment in our colleges. This is a budgets
:24:03. > :24:11.bill that I believe deserves support from across the chamber and
:24:11. > :24:14.I commend it to Parliament and to the people of Scotland. That is the
:24:14. > :24:19.latest from Holyrood. The Finance Secretary John Swinney speaking.
:24:19. > :24:26.Angus Macleod is still with me in the studio. We are discussing what
:24:26. > :24:31.key announcement he might make. He did move on the college and the
:24:31. > :24:36.housing budget. Yes, I think probably in terms of the housing,
:24:36. > :24:40.the housing lobby will probable - eprobably be happier than they
:24:40. > :24:43.thought they would be. And colleges u 10 million. I don't think that
:24:43. > :24:49.will keep them happy. Although to be fair to John Swinney, he did add
:24:49. > :24:55.that the college budget would rise to the level that he had already
:24:55. > :25:01.pledged that in the following year, so to that extent he has said to
:25:01. > :25:05.them, jam tomorrow. And that may well placate them, but I don't
:25:05. > :25:12.think the ten million in this year will go anywhere near enough
:25:12. > :25:17.placating them. Interesting to see that commitment on the college
:25:17. > :25:21.budget. It was a tricky issue. have to wonder, given the flak they
:25:21. > :25:25.have taken and the tra ma this has raised, why they didn't go there
:25:25. > :25:30.originally any way. Surely there must have been what police judgment
:25:30. > :25:35.there. Thank you. -- misjudgment. Now to Prime Minister's questions
:25:35. > :25:39.where the so-called bedroom tax was debate. Ed Miliband accused the
:25:39. > :25:43.Prime Minister of not protecting the most vulnerable in society.
:25:43. > :25:46.After claiming that two thirds of those hit by the bedroom tax were
:25:46. > :25:52.disabled. But David Cameron said that under occupation penalty was
:25:52. > :26:01.not a tax. And said there was a �50 million fund to deal with difficult
:26:01. > :26:07.cases. I want to ask the Prime Minister about the bed room tax.
:26:07. > :26:12.Alison in Middlesbrough has 18- year-old tkwim son s who are both
:26:12. > :26:19.in the army. The tax means while her sons are away she will be
:26:19. > :26:24.charged more for their bred rooms. -- bedrooms. She said I resent the
:26:24. > :26:31.fact they won't have a home to come to. What is the Prime Minister's
:26:31. > :26:39.answer to Alison? Well first, let me make clear. This is not a tax.
:26:39. > :26:44.It is a benefit. I would make two points. In respect of the specific
:26:44. > :26:52.case that he raises, first, all the time Labour was in government, if
:26:52. > :26:57.you were in a private sector rented home, and you were in receipt of
:26:57. > :27:01.housing benefit, you did not get any benefit for empty rooms. It is
:27:01. > :27:05.only fair we treat people in social housing the same. The second point
:27:05. > :27:15.is if anyone is away from home, then their earnings aren't counted
:27:15. > :27:17.
:27:17. > :27:25.so, the benefits of that person will go up. I look forward to him
:27:25. > :27:30.explaining to Alison why her play paying �25 a week more is not a tax
:27:31. > :27:35.on her. As for his point about the private rented sector. I think he
:27:35. > :27:38.misunderstands the point of social housing. Part of its purpose is to
:27:38. > :27:44.protect the most vulnerable. According to the Government's
:27:44. > :27:49.figures, two thirds of the people here are disabled. Let me tell the
:27:49. > :27:55.Prime Minister about an e-mail I received. It said my wife is
:27:55. > :27:59.disabled and is care for in bed. The gentleman says, due to her ill
:27:59. > :28:03.answer and my medical conditionss, I sleep in the spare reed room.
:28:03. > :28:10.High is it fair for him and thousands of other of disabled
:28:10. > :28:14.people like him to be hit by the bedroom stacks? -- tax. As with
:28:14. > :28:18.every member, if he wants me or the the department of work and pensions
:28:18. > :28:26.to look at a specific case. Of course I will. But let me again
:28:26. > :28:31.make some detailed points to him. First, there is a �50 million pund
:28:31. > :28:35.to -- fund to deal with difficult cases. Let me make the argument of
:28:35. > :28:42.fair thans he seems to miss. If you are in private rented housing and
:28:42. > :28:46.receive no housing benefit, you don't get money for an extra room F
:28:46. > :28:53.you're in private housing and do get benefit you don't money for an
:28:53. > :29:03.extra room. There is a basic argument of fairness. Why should we
:29:03. > :29:11.
:29:11. > :29:18.do more for people in social What is a air is between at our air
:29:18. > :29:23.attacks on the essay all that our lunch in tax on millionaires?
:29:23. > :29:26.country, we are spending �23 billion on housing benefit will
:29:26. > :29:29.start we have to have up at eight in this country and the last
:29:29. > :29:34.government said we had to have a debate in this country about
:29:34. > :29:40.getting on top of housing benefit. That featured in the Labour
:29:40. > :29:44.manifesto on which they were all elected. Since they have moved to
:29:44. > :29:50.the opposition benches they have given up all pretence of that
:29:50. > :29:55.responsibility. Let's go to Westminster now. David
:29:55. > :30:05.Cameron was facing a rather tough time there in the so-called bed and
:30:05. > :30:05.
:30:05. > :30:14.tax debate. -- bedroom. It shows in graphic detail that when you try to
:30:14. > :30:19.make changes in the benefit system, in it any changes, there are going
:30:19. > :30:25.to be losers. There may also be some people who when but by and
:30:25. > :30:29.large it is the losers who are going to be unhappy. We saw a very
:30:29. > :30:34.concerted attack by the Labour Party with Ed Miliband and a number
:30:34. > :30:38.of other MPs wanting to pick up on what they see as a weak point in
:30:38. > :30:42.the government's case. Cameron wants to reduce the level of
:30:42. > :30:47.deficit and to do so she is tackling the benefits system to
:30:47. > :30:53.bring more clarity and fairness are into it. The issue of gay marriage
:30:53. > :31:00.was brought up a couple of times after a revolt. Rather muted on the
:31:00. > :31:03.Conservative backbenches. -- after the vote. It was one of those times
:31:03. > :31:08.in the House of Commons where he got the feeling that something
:31:09. > :31:18.really important had happened. The Conservatives did not want to go
:31:18. > :31:21.for that again. The opponents of same-sex or gay marriage in England
:31:21. > :31:25.knows that it has been taken in principle but it will not
:31:25. > :31:31.necessarily get an easy ride through the House of Lords. They
:31:31. > :31:38.are looking for more safeguards for religious groups. I think now they
:31:38. > :31:42.accept that it will go ahead. SNP did not vote because they do
:31:42. > :31:48.not fought on matters affecting England. Six Scottish Labour MPs
:31:48. > :31:54.voted against it. It is one of the issues in which the whips were not
:31:54. > :31:57.whipping in the traditional sense. It was very much an issue of
:31:57. > :32:02.conscience and although this issue does not affect Scotland, a a
:32:02. > :32:06.number of Labour MPs felt strongly about it and held such strong views
:32:06. > :32:14.that they felt they wanted to register to vote on an issue which
:32:14. > :32:19.does not affect people in Scotland. We had the announcement yesterday
:32:20. > :32:25.of when an independent -- independence they could happen in
:32:25. > :32:29.Scotland. What was the action in Westminster? We got a slight
:32:29. > :32:34.flavour in Prime Minister's question time when there was a
:32:34. > :32:43.question from Unionist MPs calling for the benefits of the Union. It
:32:43. > :32:48.is all very well and good to say you have a transition programme.
:32:48. > :32:52.The what Alex Salmond to name the date for the referendum in 2014.
:32:52. > :32:58.What they do not want to do is get into detailed negotiations about
:32:58. > :33:04.what form an independent Scotland might make. They feel that would be
:33:04. > :33:07.moving on to the SNP's territory. The what the arguments over the
:33:07. > :33:13.referendum first and then look at what the situation might be up for
:33:13. > :33:17.the referendum. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury made a
:33:17. > :33:22.statement about the Royal Bank of Scotland and their massive fines
:33:23. > :33:29.after the wrecking of interest rates. That will be just under �400
:33:29. > :33:34.million made payable to the American and British authorities.
:33:34. > :33:38.That is for the rate fixing scandal. Stephen Hester has been doing a
:33:38. > :33:48.number of interviews this afternoon in which she said that the culture
:33:48. > :33:54.were in his back at other banks has to change. What we're certain of
:33:54. > :33:58.his they do not want the money to come up out of the tax payers
:33:58. > :34:02.because they all over 80% of the Royal Bank of Scotland. They wanted
:34:02. > :34:07.to come from the back but not for many funds which might be used for
:34:08. > :34:11.future lending to individuals or organisations. There is a growing
:34:11. > :34:17.feeling at Westminster that if they could take it from future bonuses
:34:17. > :34:22.for bankers, that is what they would like to do. That is far
:34:22. > :34:26.easier to say than to do a in practice.
:34:26. > :34:32.We have been discussing the Budget and that debate is taking place
:34:32. > :34:37.currently. Our commentator is Glenn Campbell.
:34:37. > :34:47.The Budget debate is still under way and Labour's Ken Macintosh is
:34:47. > :34:47.
:34:47. > :34:52.concluding his response. The illusion of independence has
:34:52. > :34:58.blinded the SNP to what they can do here and now that I it encourage
:34:58. > :35:07.members to reject the choices made by John Swinney Bose up may I
:35:07. > :35:13.remind members that time is very tight. This government was really
:35:13. > :35:17.summed up in the first two minutes of this debate. When it started,
:35:17. > :35:27.there was building work going on haply outside and within minutes of
:35:27. > :35:29.
:35:29. > :35:35.him opening his mouth, the building work had stopped! This is a
:35:35. > :35:41.government which has at its disposal �7 million more next year
:35:41. > :35:45.than it had this year. More money to spend in the next financial year
:35:45. > :35:55.than this year so there for any cuts sought changes that may make
:35:55. > :35:59.our political choices of the SNP. They do not like it. But with more
:35:59. > :36:05.money to spend next year than they have this year, the choices are
:36:05. > :36:11.entirely theirs. Let's look at where they say these savings have
:36:11. > :36:16.been made. Scottish Water, through the great efforts of the Scottish
:36:16. > :36:22.government, have managed to get an extra �35 million lot of Scottish
:36:22. > :36:29.Water. What you have seen in the small print is the aid and
:36:29. > :36:36.additional �50 million to Scottish Water this year. In terms of the
:36:36. > :36:42.2014-15 budget, there is �190 million going to Scottish Water.
:36:42. > :36:47.They tell us they have saved money because demand is down despite the
:36:47. > :36:52.fact they have complained month after month after month about a
:36:52. > :36:57.renewables money being brought forward to Scotland. When it
:36:57. > :37:03.actually happened, they seem to be incapable of delivering. Let's look
:37:03. > :37:12.at the announcement on colleges because this is a bizarre situation.
:37:12. > :37:17.An announcement of �10 million increased budget this year. There
:37:17. > :37:23.was a �34 million cut and they have decided to put �10 million back.
:37:23. > :37:29.What did we have? Spontaneous applause across this bit of the
:37:29. > :37:35.chamber foray �24 million cut to colleges. They will regret watching
:37:35. > :37:41.that back on television. I'd do not think there will be any spontaneous
:37:41. > :37:46.rounds of applause outside the chamber for a �24 million cut. I am
:37:46. > :37:52.happy to give way. He is not allowed to take part in the debate
:37:52. > :38:02.and was up but let us have a intervention. I was a plodding for
:38:02. > :38:04.
:38:04. > :38:14.the extra �51 million next year. -- applauding. Very good! I can see
:38:14. > :38:17.
:38:17. > :38:22.why he got Oct. -- bumped. Let's look again at housing. We spoke
:38:22. > :38:26.about all that additional money but when you add up all the money that
:38:26. > :38:33.went into housing in 2012, according to the Scottish
:38:33. > :38:39.government figures that came out at �360 million. Even if you add in
:38:39. > :38:48.the previous four crashes that they tried to make sound like four
:38:48. > :38:54.additional tranches, you still have �300 million. That is �60 million
:38:54. > :38:59.down on 2012 for up a budget that they see as a priority. They ask to
:38:59. > :39:04.be judged on what this Budget did for the economy. He said he would
:39:04. > :39:09.put every single additional pound he could into the economy but we
:39:09. > :39:15.see disappointing results and colleges, when it comes to housing,
:39:15. > :39:17.and even more disappointing results when it comes to taxation. We have
:39:17. > :39:24.seen three stakes against the business community since this
:39:24. > :39:29.became a majority government. The retail Leddy, the empty properties
:39:29. > :39:38.tax and a business rates burden that increases by 7% next year and
:39:38. > :39:43.9% the following year. Mr Brown is complaining about cuts in public
:39:43. > :39:52.expenditure. What precisely has he to say to the UK Government that
:39:52. > :39:59.has cut our capital budget by 25%? To be accused of complaining by
:39:59. > :40:04.John Swinney about reductions in spending has a nice irony to it.
:40:04. > :40:14.Let us look at what the Scottish government has done in response.
:40:14. > :40:19.Order! If they would require it I am quite happy to answer the
:40:19. > :40:23.question put forward. The Scottish government response to all of this
:40:23. > :40:33.is to set up the NPD programme to replace the PBI programme they
:40:33. > :40:33.
:40:33. > :40:38.decided to get rid of. -- PPi. They told us they would spend �150
:40:38. > :40:48.million in year one but they spent nothing. You are spending 20
:40:48. > :40:49.
:40:49. > :40:56.million this year but he told us he would spend 353 million! Alex
:40:56. > :41:03.Salmond has the audacity to talk about NPD when last week...
:41:03. > :41:07.Speaking in the chamber there about the Budget. You can follow up on
:41:07. > :41:17.BBC Online if you what to close-up more from her political commentator
:41:17. > :41:18.
:41:18. > :41:27.Angus MacLeod. Independence Day in 20th March 16 it is on the Scottish
:41:27. > :41:33.government's timetable. You have too much at the motives behind that.
:41:33. > :41:36.The SNP and the Scottish government and the yes campaign want to try to
:41:36. > :41:46.end you the whole idea of independence with a certain
:41:46. > :41:46.
:41:46. > :41:49.inevitability. -- imbue. It was an attempt to draw the British
:41:49. > :41:55.Government on to the SNP's ground in talking about independence
:41:55. > :42:01.before the referendum. It has struck me as a political risk as
:42:01. > :42:10.well because a lot of people in Scotland are very wary about
:42:10. > :42:17.independence. This tends to concentrate the mind and you wonder
:42:17. > :42:20.how they will react. Opinion polls will tell us that. The Scottish
:42:20. > :42:25.government told us they were following a timetable set out by a
:42:25. > :42:30.number of other countries and it was quite easy to negotiate
:42:30. > :42:36.independence during that time scale. Most of these countries have not
:42:36. > :42:40.been involved in the 300 year old union at Parc other hugely
:42:40. > :42:44.integrated state like the UK falls up some of these countries were
:42:44. > :42:50.involved and what can be described as Delphic divorces in which both
:42:50. > :42:55.sides wanted to separate. That is not the case here and I am reminded
:42:55. > :42:59.very forcibly in this debate about the phrase used a week ago - to
:42:59. > :43:06.many people in Scottish politics were looking through the wrong end
:43:06. > :43:12.of the telescope. That was directed at Alex Salmond and the SNP. When
:43:12. > :43:15.people get around the negotiating table after a yes vote, the side
:43:15. > :43:19.representing the rest of the UK will be there to represent the
:43:19. > :43:24.views of the people of England, Northern Ireland and Wales that
:43:24. > :43:29.they can be relied upon to drive a hard bargain. One wonders why they
:43:29. > :43:34.should not because that is what they are therefore. Thank you for
:43:34. > :43:39.being on the programme this afternoon. That is all from us just