:00:25. > :00:30.Parliament at Holyrood. It is August. Usually politicians are
:00:31. > :00:35.heading for the Edinburgh Festival or foreign client is. But it is the
:00:36. > :00:41.referendum, so everything is cancelled. They will break up for
:00:42. > :00:47.the final stages of the referendum and then come back to dissect the
:00:48. > :00:59.results. I guess that the referendum will be the top topic today. Let's
:01:00. > :01:04.cross to the chamber. Now we are getting into the
:01:05. > :01:09.afternoon, can I ask what the First Minister has planned for the rest of
:01:10. > :01:19.the day? Can I take the opportunity to thank the people of Glasgow and
:01:20. > :01:24.every member of Team Scotland, all of our wonderful Clydeside
:01:25. > :01:34.volunteers for making the Commonwealth Games are magnificent
:01:35. > :01:37.shawl for the people of Scotland? Measures to take forward the
:01:38. > :01:41.government's programme for Scotland. As someone who has lived and
:01:42. > :01:47.breathed the Commonwealth Games for the last ten years, I would join the
:01:48. > :01:50.First Minister in endorsing everything he has said about what a
:01:51. > :01:59.wonderful spectacle Glasgow and Scotland put on for the rest of the
:02:00. > :02:02.Commonwealth and the world. In the increasing unlikely event that
:02:03. > :02:10.Scotland votes yes, and the likely event the First Minister is unable
:02:11. > :02:14.to end the union with the rest of the United Kingdom, with the First
:02:15. > :02:25.Minister tell the people of Scotland, what is plan B? She will
:02:26. > :02:34.find the answer on 110 -- page 110 and page 111 of the White Paper. Can
:02:35. > :02:38.I say to Johan Lamont that the reason we are keeping the pound in a
:02:39. > :02:42.currency union and the reason we are so unambiguous about it is because
:02:43. > :02:47.we are appealing to the greatest authority of all, that is the
:02:48. > :02:54.sovereign will of the people of Scotland? After IDS vote in
:02:55. > :03:00.referendum, I am sure that -- after a yes vote in the referendum, I am
:03:01. > :03:06.sure that Johan Lamont will respect that. It is Scotland's pound, it
:03:07. > :03:15.doesn't belong to George Osborne or Ed Balls, it is Scotland's pound and
:03:16. > :03:21.we are keeping it. I don't know what Nicola Sturgeon made of that answer,
:03:22. > :03:26.but I dare say I will read what she thought from an unnamed source in
:03:27. > :03:32.the newspapers tomorrow. Maybe I will have more success than Alistair
:03:33. > :03:40.Darling in this regard. First Minister has said on many occasions
:03:41. > :03:48.that he has a plan B, plan C, planned the and plan F if there is
:03:49. > :03:53.not a currency union. It is clear he has entertained the possibility that
:03:54. > :04:04.a currency union might not happen. Please share with us, what is plan
:04:05. > :04:12.B? The options are on page 110 of the White Paper. These are for the
:04:13. > :04:20.euro which we don't support, a flexible exchange rate policy which
:04:21. > :04:25.is perfectly viable but not as good as keeping pound sterling, but it
:04:26. > :04:30.also points out that this is an internationally tradable policy. Now
:04:31. > :04:34.I have had to inform Johan Lamont of page 110 of the White Paper, will
:04:35. > :04:39.she not accept that the reason the paper puts forward the view of
:04:40. > :04:47.keeping the pound sterling in a formal currency union is because it
:04:48. > :04:52.is best for the people of Scotland and those in the rest of the United
:04:53. > :04:57.Kingdom. It is our pound and we are keeping it. That might convince your
:04:58. > :05:04.backbenchers, it will not convince anyone who lives in the real world.
:05:05. > :05:08.Of course the First Minister talks about his sovereign mandate. He
:05:09. > :05:12.talks about Scotland's sovereign mandate. But the Prime Minister of
:05:13. > :05:29.the rest of the United Kingdom will have a sovereign mandate to say no.
:05:30. > :05:34.It is not... You see, it is not for the First Minister. No matter how
:05:35. > :05:39.limitless he thinks his powers are. To determine what is in the national
:05:40. > :05:45.interest of another country. That is not within his gift to decide. The
:05:46. > :05:48.First Minister has been told by relevant UK politicians and the
:05:49. > :05:53.civil servant running the Treasury that there will not be a currency
:05:54. > :05:58.union. The First Minister has said he has a range of other options.
:05:59. > :06:04.Now, I do hope that the currency is not like the EU legal advice he said
:06:05. > :06:10.he had, when in fact he didn't. So let's take the First Minister at his
:06:11. > :06:21.word, when he said he had a plan B. Can he please just share with us and
:06:22. > :06:28.tell us what it is? I just listed the four options on page 110 of the
:06:29. > :06:33.White Paper. I was interested in Johan Lamont citing the Prime
:06:34. > :06:36.Minister of the nation seeing now, but isn't that exactly what Gordon
:06:37. > :06:44.Brown, the previous Prime Minister, warned about in the Daily Record on
:06:45. > :06:47.the 2nd of June? Is the only propaganda that comes from the
:06:48. > :06:52.Conservatives is Britain says no, it is bound to have a reaction in
:06:53. > :06:57.Scotland and make people feel they are talking down to us and are not
:06:58. > :07:05.taking us seriously and trying to bully us. Perhaps Johan Lamont
:07:06. > :07:08.should take the advice from the previous Prime Minister instead of
:07:09. > :07:16.citing David Cameron, the Tory Prime Minister. I think there are three
:07:17. > :07:23.reasons for what the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and Ed Balls say.
:07:24. > :07:26.There is the sovereign will of the Scottish people. Many people will
:07:27. > :07:31.respect that sovereign will of the Scottish people. Secondly, this plan
:07:32. > :07:35.is the best interests of Scotland, but also in the best interests of
:07:36. > :07:41.the rest of the United Kingdom. Businesses in the rest of the United
:07:42. > :07:47.Kingdom will not to pay ?600 million in transaction costs. Thirdly, the
:07:48. > :07:53.three gentlemen are not saying they can stop us using the pound. They
:07:54. > :07:58.are saying that they want to keep for themselves the asset of the Bank
:07:59. > :08:05.of England. Nationalised in 1946. And asset and a bank which holds
:08:06. > :08:09.some 26% of UK debt. But if you keep all of the assets of the United
:08:10. > :08:22.Kingdom, you end up with all of the liabilities of the United Kingdom.
:08:23. > :08:30.Which, after the work of George Osborne and Alistair Darling,
:08:31. > :08:39.amounts to ?1.3 trillion of debt. We are expected to believe that in the
:08:40. > :08:46.general election they are going to campaign, saying that they want to
:08:47. > :08:51.keep the Bank of England and give Scottish people present of ?5
:08:52. > :08:55.billion a year? That is why the best will of the Scottish people will
:08:56. > :09:04.prevail. It is our pound and we are keeping it. I am not surprised that
:09:05. > :09:10.the First Minister is quoting from the Daily Record in June, rather
:09:11. > :09:15.than the Daily Record this morning. Three times today, and for many
:09:16. > :09:20.times in the last two years, I have asked the First Minister for his
:09:21. > :09:26.plans about the currency. This is a serious matter to the people of
:09:27. > :09:33.Scotland. Each time, I get a response but never an answer to the
:09:34. > :09:37.questions people are asking. It is clear the First Minister has a
:09:38. > :09:41.strategy to get Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. But what is
:09:42. > :09:47.becoming increasingly clear is he doesn't have a plan for Scotland. We
:09:48. > :09:52.remember, for those of us who remember what the First Minister
:09:53. > :09:55.used to say, once the pound was a millstone round Scotland's neck,
:09:56. > :09:59.then the euro was Scotland's choice. His former deputy, Jim
:10:00. > :10:09.Sellers, says we should have a separate Scottish currency. First
:10:10. > :10:18.Minister says he has a range of options. Four back-up plans. Don't
:10:19. > :10:24.the people of Scotland deserve to know which one it will be? If he
:10:25. > :10:28.doesn't tell us, which one will it be, and if he doesn't tell us, isn't
:10:29. > :10:32.it clear that while he may have a plan to break up the United
:10:33. > :10:40.Kingdom, he doesn't have a plan for Scotland or the future of families
:10:41. > :10:48.across this country? All right. I pointed out the options were
:10:49. > :10:51.contained on page 110. I pointed out it was the Euro which we don't
:10:52. > :10:56.support. I pointed out a fixed or flexible exchange rate, which is
:10:57. > :11:01.perfectly viable but not as good as keeping sterling in a formal
:11:02. > :11:05.currency union. I pointed out you cannot be stopped from using our own
:11:06. > :11:17.currency. That is not even the position of the Conservative Party.
:11:18. > :11:22.You cannot be stopped. Were putting forward the position that we are
:11:23. > :11:27.appealing to the people of Scotland that the sovereign will in a
:11:28. > :11:31.referendum, which is why we are unambiguous, we think the best
:11:32. > :11:34.position for Scotland and for the rest of the United Kingdom is to
:11:35. > :11:39.have a formal currency union. Therefore, it is our pound and we
:11:40. > :11:50.are keeping it in the interest of the Scottish people.
:11:51. > :11:58.Can I add the heartfelt thanks of myself and my party to everyone who
:11:59. > :12:06.helped with such a fantastic Commonwealth Games? Can I also add
:12:07. > :12:11.the police and armed forces for keeping people safe throughout the
:12:12. > :12:15.games? Can I ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime
:12:16. > :12:20.Minister? No plans in the near future. The First Minister is trying
:12:21. > :12:23.to lead the Scottish public up the garden path here. He is trying to
:12:24. > :12:28.pretend to people that he can deliver a currency union with the
:12:29. > :12:33.rest of the UK, if their work to be independent. And he knows that he
:12:34. > :12:38.cannot. The First Minister often likes to pretend that he speaks for
:12:39. > :12:42.all of Scotland, but he has now claiming to speak for all of
:12:43. > :12:46.England, Wales and Northern Ireland as well. Can we take a step back and
:12:47. > :12:51.can he admit to the people of Scotland just know that if there
:12:52. > :13:01.were to be a yes vote, a currency union is not in his gift to give? I
:13:02. > :13:05.have just set out the reasons why I think what is said the day after a
:13:06. > :13:13.yes vote in the referendum is different from today. Ruth Davidson
:13:14. > :13:26.knows that lines in the sand have a habit of being washed away. I
:13:27. > :13:30.welcomed Ruth Davidson's revelation on 15th June this year in the Sunday
:13:31. > :13:35.Post that she will back a currency union in the event of a yes vote, if
:13:36. > :13:40.that is what is best for Scotland. Now, I can only assume that Ruth
:13:41. > :13:44.Davidson is responding, as Johan Lamont didn't seem too, that she
:13:45. > :13:50.would accept the sovereign will of the Scottish people. Mind you, there
:13:51. > :13:56.is less enthusiasm than there is from the deputy leader sitting
:13:57. > :14:04.beside her. He said he would man the barricades for the pound after
:14:05. > :14:08.independence. Can I say to Ruth Davidson, I will be there on the
:14:09. > :14:18.barricades with the Conservative Party? A slightly kamikaze approach
:14:19. > :14:27.to the courting newspapers today. You so predictable that I have the
:14:28. > :14:35.reference you are speaking about. I think a monetary union is the best
:14:36. > :14:38.thing for the people Scotland, which is why I am fighting to keep the
:14:39. > :14:52.United Kingdom. That is the quote that I gave. Order. Settle down. So
:14:53. > :14:57.far, we have had a nonsense on stilts argument that a sovereign
:14:58. > :15:04.will will make this happen. If the First Minister's preferred option
:15:05. > :15:11.was a link with the dollar, they don't need permission from Barack
:15:12. > :15:15.Obama. Also that it is in the interest of the rest of the UK
:15:16. > :15:19.further to be a currency union. The vast majority of people in England
:15:20. > :15:23.and Wales said in June that it is not in their interest. The First
:15:24. > :15:27.Minister of Wales has said it is not in their interest. The permanent
:15:28. > :15:32.secretary to the Treasury has said it is not in their interest. The
:15:33. > :15:38.Chancellor, Shadow Chancellor, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the
:15:39. > :15:41.markets, they have all said it is not in their interests. I didn't ask
:15:42. > :15:46.the First Minister to tell me anything about sovereign will or the
:15:47. > :15:51.will of the rest of the UK, I asked him whether a currency union was in
:15:52. > :15:57.his gift. It is not. All the washing in the world does not make it so.
:15:58. > :16:03.So, if he cannot deliver, and he can, we are back where we started.
:16:04. > :16:16.Needing a preferred plan B. Not a range of options, a preferred plan
:16:17. > :16:20.B. He must have one. What is it? I have listed the currency options
:16:21. > :16:26.twice from the White Paper. I can do it again but I have done it twice. I
:16:27. > :16:31.think Ruth Davidson might come to regret only reading that quote and
:16:32. > :16:35.not going further because she was then asked what would happen if
:16:36. > :16:38.Scotland with and yes for independence and she said she would
:16:39. > :16:50.back a currency union if that was best for Scotland, in the Sunday
:16:51. > :16:56.Post in June. Miss Davidson. The quotation is there, as she well
:16:57. > :17:00.knows. What she said would happen if there was a yes vote, and she
:17:01. > :17:05.acknowledged the importance of the sovereign will of the Scottish
:17:06. > :17:09.people. It is not as enthusiastic as manning the barricades with the
:17:10. > :17:15.deputy leader beside them but it is important. Ruth Davidson tries to
:17:16. > :17:19.give the impression this argument which is best for the UK is held by
:17:20. > :17:25.myself alone despite the substantial arguments, I noticed a letter in the
:17:26. > :17:33.Financial Times from the head of intelligent Finance, a distinguished
:17:34. > :17:38.Scottish economist, Professor Sir Donald Mackay, 25 years at adviser
:17:39. > :17:45.of the Secretary of the four Scotland, former chief executives,
:17:46. > :17:49.who said there is a positive outlook for the financial sector because the
:17:50. > :17:55.likelihood of a currency union is strong. It is in the best interests
:17:56. > :18:00.of Scotland and the rest of the UK and of our financial sector
:18:01. > :18:03.industry. I said earlier that the issue was not whether Scotland could
:18:04. > :18:09.keep the pound, I assume Ruth Davidson accepts, as Alistair
:18:10. > :18:14.Darling did, that it cannot be prevented from keeping the pound. We
:18:15. > :18:19.cannot you prevented from keeping an internationally credible currency,
:18:20. > :18:23.and in terms of the debt, there is no doubt the Treasury has accepted
:18:24. > :18:29.liability for the debt, but in reasonableness, Dick Unionist
:18:30. > :18:33.coalition will accept that Westminster government tries to keep
:18:34. > :18:39.all the assets of the UK like the Bank of England, then they end up
:18:40. > :18:43.with the debt, and the point I was making is that it seems incredible
:18:44. > :18:49.that Ed Balls and George Osborne will go around campaigning in an
:18:50. > :18:54.election telling the people of England they were offered 5 billion
:18:55. > :18:58.of debt interest payments as a proposition by the people of
:18:59. > :19:01.Scotland but they do not want it because they want exclusive control
:19:02. > :19:07.of the Bank of England. That is quite what they say now and what it
:19:08. > :19:14.will say after a yes vote are two different things. That is why it is
:19:15. > :19:21.our pound and we are keeping it. Dave Stewart. Thank you. The First
:19:22. > :19:28.Minister will be aware that circle will be keep -- closing their call
:19:29. > :19:34.centre and making all workers redundant, which is a blow to a
:19:35. > :19:38.small population. Will the First Minister meet me and send hope to be
:19:39. > :19:46.at fact that families in the North? -- Serco. I will arrange for that
:19:47. > :19:50.meeting. I saw the announcement and I know John Swinney and his
:19:51. > :19:54.officials have been engaged on these matters but I will meet him and his
:19:55. > :20:01.constituents because I are great that while 21 jobs may sound like a
:20:02. > :20:08.small number, in a small rural tenancy, it is a huge number and I
:20:09. > :20:14.think these matters have to be a real concern for companies when
:20:15. > :20:18.making such a note that back announcements, so I want to be sure
:20:19. > :20:26.the views of David's constituents are taken into account as we discuss
:20:27. > :20:29.with Serco how to move forward. To ask the First Minister what meetings
:20:30. > :20:33.will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. Meetings of
:20:34. > :20:37.importance to the people of Scotland. Does the First Minister
:20:38. > :20:43.accept he is not being fair to people in Scotland? He says he has
:20:44. > :20:48.an alternative currency plan but he cannot even bring himself to
:20:49. > :20:51.describe the consequences. After a lifetime of campaigning for
:20:52. > :20:55.independence, when the moment of truth came on Tuesday he could not
:20:56. > :21:01.explain his currency plan in front of a million people. Surely he
:21:02. > :21:06.should have another go now. People in Scotland do not get another go in
:21:07. > :21:14.September, so these can he described the consequences to Scotland of his
:21:15. > :21:19.alternative plan? -- lease. I laid out in page 110 of the White Paper,
:21:20. > :21:23.you can have the euro, which we do not support, although previously the
:21:24. > :21:29.Lib Dems and myself support that. You can have a fixed taxable
:21:30. > :21:33.exchange rate, viable but not as good as the option that fought in
:21:34. > :21:37.the White Paper, we cannot be prevented from using sterling, it is
:21:38. > :21:42.our currency and we cannot be prevented from keeping up. The
:21:43. > :21:45.reason the White Paper puts at Fort in these terms is that we are
:21:46. > :21:49.looking for the sovereign wealth of the Scottish people to back the plan
:21:50. > :21:54.to keep sterling in that currency union, and I know as a Liberal
:21:55. > :21:59.Democrat that Willie Rennie believe first, but not to man the
:22:00. > :22:01.barricades, then to accept the sovereign will of the Scottish
:22:02. > :22:07.people should it prevail, and that is quite we are backing it and wipe
:22:08. > :22:15.it is our pound and we are keeping up. -- and why it is our pound. And
:22:16. > :22:21.we are keeping it. He knows those page numbers but he cannot answer
:22:22. > :22:25.the question. The First Minister often referred to the fiscal
:22:26. > :22:30.commission but I suspect most people do not have a copy of the fiscal
:22:31. > :22:34.commission and the at home. Their names are not on the leaflet sent to
:22:35. > :22:39.every house, people do not know what they are recommending. They don't
:22:40. > :22:45.knock on doors, the First Minister does. They are supposed to be his
:22:46. > :22:51.ideas, so what are they and why can he not bring himself to describe the
:22:52. > :22:54.consequences of his alternative? AM glad he mentions the fiscal
:22:55. > :23:00.commission, to highly distinguished economists, but I was not quoting
:23:01. > :23:06.from them, I was quoting from the White Paper presented to the people
:23:07. > :23:11.of Scotland in page 110. If I remember right, Willie Rennie was
:23:12. > :23:16.complaining about the amount we were spending promoting the White Paper
:23:17. > :23:20.and giving information to the people of Scotland. How can he complain
:23:21. > :23:24.about it on the one hand and save this information is not now
:23:25. > :23:29.available? In terms of consequences of other currency options, Professor
:23:30. > :23:35.David Bell, giving evidence to this Parliament, pointed out it is the UK
:23:36. > :23:41.debt not Scottish debt, and the UK has agreed it will pay back the
:23:42. > :23:43.debt. It might be extremely attractive for Scotland to be in a
:23:44. > :23:47.position where the UK seized financial assets but were not
:23:48. > :23:52.apparent to accept that means they have the liability as well, it would
:23:53. > :23:58.be attractive for Scotland to be debt free, we would be in balance of
:23:59. > :24:01.payments and budget but it is not a reasonable position to put Ford,
:24:02. > :24:07.which is quite in the White Paper we are offering to pay a fair share,
:24:08. > :24:12.finance are fair share of the massive liabilities. With the likes
:24:13. > :24:17.of George Osborne, but that depends and properly on having a air share
:24:18. > :24:22.of the assets. It is an entirely reasonable proposition. It is the
:24:23. > :24:27.proposition that is in the White Paper and that is why as part of a
:24:28. > :24:39.formal currency union, it is our pound and we intend to keep it. To
:24:40. > :24:43.ask the First Minister what impact hybridisation of the NHS in England
:24:44. > :24:48.will have on the budget available to Scottish Government? Extremely
:24:49. > :24:54.serious. Our budget for public services in Scotland is allocated as
:24:55. > :25:00.a relative proportion of spending in England as depend -- as determined
:25:01. > :25:04.by the Barnett formula. The impact of austerity on the NHS in England
:25:05. > :25:10.will see our budget eroded, for every ?10 loss in NHS England,
:25:11. > :25:16.Scotland will use a pound in funding, so it is a serious issue.
:25:17. > :25:23.Therefore the idea we can be immune to the privatisation agenda being
:25:24. > :25:27.pursuit by the NHS and government in England is not reasonable in terms
:25:28. > :25:33.of how Scotland is financed, and the way to defend the NHS, our public
:25:34. > :25:38.health service, is to have control of Scotland's finances and therefore
:25:39. > :25:46.not be vulnerable to the privatisation and fragmentation in
:25:47. > :25:50.England. Does the First Minister agree that the only way we can
:25:51. > :25:55.protect Scotland's NHS from Westminster's austerity cuts and
:25:56. > :26:00.ensure it remains true to its founding principles, free at the
:26:01. > :26:08.point of need, and in public hands, is by voting yes in September? Yes,
:26:09. > :26:14.I do. In terms of expressions of that, I think Doctor Philip Winford,
:26:15. > :26:20.someone who as far as I know has never been involved in politics
:26:21. > :26:25.before but a prominent breast surgeon who has spoken on this issue
:26:26. > :26:28.because she could see the danger to the NHS in Scotland, which is the
:26:29. > :26:34.consequence of urbanisation south of the border. We are fortunate to have
:26:35. > :26:38.a policy control of health which allowed us to protect our health
:26:39. > :26:42.service from the damaging reforms the Westminster governments have
:26:43. > :26:47.made to the NHS in England not just in the last two or three years but
:26:48. > :26:51.the last 15 years, and with evolution we can set a different
:26:52. > :26:56.policy. Without independence our budget will be women's -- beholden
:26:57. > :27:00.to the whims of a retired nation, which is white to protect
:27:01. > :27:08.Scotland's health service we need independent control of its finances.
:27:09. > :27:12.Given the Scottish Government has received ?1.3 billion by its own
:27:13. > :27:17.admission in consequentials from Westminster specifically for health
:27:18. > :27:20.in this Parliament alone, can the First Minister confirm went during
:27:21. > :27:26.the summer recess the Scottish Government's referendum device that
:27:27. > :27:31.advice became so desperate that their only recourse was to indulge
:27:32. > :27:36.in shameful and shabby scaremongering about the future of
:27:37. > :27:40.Scotland's devolved NHS as a public service, to which every party in
:27:41. > :28:17.this Parliament is profoundly committed,
:28:18. > :28:19.autonomy for Scotland, understand that full well. He knows every penny
:28:20. > :28:23.of consequentials for the health service has been passed on to the
:28:24. > :28:29.health service in Scotland. He also knows the entire purpose of a
:28:30. > :28:34.privatisation agenda is to reduce expenditure on the health service,
:28:35. > :28:38.therefore it follows its expenditure is reduced in England and we are
:28:39. > :28:42.still part of the Barnett formula, there will be less money available
:28:43. > :28:48.for public services in Scotland. That is why the threat to
:28:49. > :28:52.Scotland's Public health service is real unless we control Scotland's
:28:53. > :29:00.finances in the way he once believed in and we believe in and the people
:29:01. > :29:04.of Scotland will back in September. The Presiding Officer moving onto
:29:05. > :29:10.the next stage. We have come to the close of our coverage of First
:29:11. > :29:15.Minister's questions, there were some understandable tension on all
:29:16. > :29:21.sides. We have that discussion about the NHS, the question of whether
:29:22. > :29:25.cuts in England would work through the Barnett formula into cuts in
:29:26. > :29:29.Scotland, people saying regardless of how the NHS is delivered in
:29:30. > :29:34.England it involves public expenditure, but the big debate was
:29:35. > :29:38.on the currency, all opposition leaders pursuing that question. The
:29:39. > :29:43.First Minister referred first evolved to the White Paper, which I
:29:44. > :29:49.have here, but also the formula, it is our pound and we are keeping it,
:29:50. > :29:51.I suspect we will hear more of that formula as the debate continues.
:29:52. > :29:56.Thank you for watching.