:00:17. > :00:22.Hello and welcome to the first Politics Scotland of 2014. Coming up
:00:23. > :00:25.on the programme: From a former First Minister, a call for a
:00:26. > :00:33.temporary truce in the referendum campaign during the Commonwealth
:00:34. > :00:37.Games. This is too important for Scotland.
:00:38. > :00:46.It is too important for all the athletes who have been competing
:00:47. > :00:50.It's the Scottish Government's "meal deal" - we'll look at the plans to
:00:51. > :00:55.give primaries one to three free school lunches.
:00:56. > :00:58.And here, as flooding continues, there are growing concerns that more
:00:59. > :01:05.should be done to help those affected by the deluge.
:01:06. > :01:17.And welcome to the first edition of the programme. Thinking about the
:01:18. > :01:21.referendum, the First Minister Jack McConnell has been talking about the
:01:22. > :01:24.Commonwealth Games. He says that he does not want the people involved in
:01:25. > :01:30.the Keynes to be distracted or concerned.
:01:31. > :01:34.These games are important for Scotland and Glasgow. It is an
:01:35. > :01:38.amazing opportunity to promote the city and the country, and it
:01:39. > :01:42.happened just before the referendum. I think it is really
:01:43. > :01:47.important that everyone involved, the organisers and the investors,
:01:48. > :01:51.the athletes, the singers and others who will take part in the cultural
:01:52. > :01:55.programme, that they can be confident that everything they do
:01:56. > :02:02.will not be exploited by one side or the other. I think it will be really
:02:03. > :02:07.great for Scotland. Both sides would agree that there will be a truce and
:02:08. > :02:12.then the referendum campaign can take place. How worried are you that
:02:13. > :02:17.the games could be hijacked by politicians?
:02:18. > :02:25.I think the danger is that the games become as coal. We know the history
:02:26. > :02:32.of politics and sport in Scotland. -- political. The games had been
:02:33. > :02:37.devastated by a political boycott. They did have an impact on
:02:38. > :02:43.Edinburgh. We don't want anything to overshadow the sporting and the
:02:44. > :02:48.economic potential of these games for Glasgow and for Scotland. So I
:02:49. > :02:54.hope that both sides will see the sense in saying that, for that
:02:55. > :02:58.limited period in 2014, given that we have had a referendum campaign
:02:59. > :03:02.four years, it will be appropriate to stand aside and the games will
:03:03. > :03:06.run the show. Do you think that you can get
:03:07. > :03:10.agreement between both sides to do this?
:03:11. > :03:17.I would be shocked if anybody at either side of the debate would not
:03:18. > :03:22.be willing to take this pledge. I really hope that, given the
:03:23. > :03:27.Commonwealth Games from the inception, when I watched the
:03:28. > :03:34.campaign to secure the games for Glasgow, and the new City Council
:03:35. > :03:41.took over, we have run this as a cross-party operation. I hope that
:03:42. > :03:46.everyone will see sense in making sure that, for the games period
:03:47. > :03:53.itself, that the games continue. It is too important for Glasgow or for
:03:54. > :03:57.the athletes who were competing to be overshadowed by politics during
:03:58. > :04:04.that fortnight in July and August. The former First Minister Lord
:04:05. > :04:10.McConnell. But Alex Salmond has denied that politics will overshadow
:04:11. > :04:13.the games. He says that the games have been created for all parties,
:04:14. > :04:19.and there is no reason to believe that that would not continue. The
:04:20. > :04:24.Commonwealth Games will be a huge successful Scotland.
:04:25. > :04:31.It is right that people listen to politics, but the idea that politics
:04:32. > :04:36.will overshadow the events is not right. The games will continue
:04:37. > :04:41.through, we will see it on the cross-party basis.
:04:42. > :04:47.We are now joined by our political commentator Hamish Macdonel. Good
:04:48. > :04:56.afternoon and welcome to you. Very good to hear what has been said,
:04:57. > :05:04.very interesting what Lord McConnell has said. Why is he concerned?
:05:05. > :05:10.I think he is a Labour person who is worried, like a lot of labour, that
:05:11. > :05:14.you have the SNP in charge and the First Minister in charge, and the
:05:15. > :05:19.Commonwealth Games are in Glasgow and the First Minister will be
:05:20. > :05:23.handing out medals and there will be SNP ministers everywhere, and to
:05:24. > :05:29.Labour worried that this could push the SNP's course. They think that
:05:30. > :05:38.there could be grandstanding during the games. They say that they should
:05:39. > :05:40.get in their early. It is wishful thinking.
:05:41. > :05:45.Do you think it is possible that he is coming to this in a nonpartisan
:05:46. > :05:49.way? No, I don't. It is nice to see Jack
:05:50. > :05:55.McConnell back, we do not see him very often, but he is a former
:05:56. > :06:00.Labour First Minister and he has fought the SNP and nationalism or
:06:01. > :06:08.his life. He is seeing this from a unionist and Labour perspective. All
:06:09. > :06:13.he can see is a First Minister who is going to take advantage from a
:06:14. > :06:18.Scottish Commonwealth Games. Lord McConnell said that he would be
:06:19. > :06:23.shocked if there was no agreement about this, but hearing from the
:06:24. > :06:26.current First Minister, he said that what Lord McConnell was suggesting
:06:27. > :06:31.was nonsensical. Yes, I think it is. If you look at
:06:32. > :06:35.it from above, there is no way that the debate over Scotland's future
:06:36. > :06:41.can be stopped. It can't be suspended for the Commonwealth
:06:42. > :06:47.Games. There is a president with the death of Princess Diana, but that
:06:48. > :06:54.was an exceptional circumstance. For a sporting event, you cannot stop
:06:55. > :06:59.the campaign. I do not agree that this will affect the medallists or
:07:00. > :07:02.the athletes. They will be just competing. With the politicians
:07:03. > :07:07.outside the stadium is, it does not have to influence what happens in
:07:08. > :07:10.the stadiums. How much coverage of the referendum
:07:11. > :07:14.do you think there will be in the Scottish media during the
:07:15. > :07:20.Commonwealth Games? Do you think that they will not cover the
:07:21. > :07:23.referendum, whilst they covered the sport?
:07:24. > :07:28.Yes, I think there is a sense that there will be in the media something
:07:29. > :07:31.great that is different to cover. But we will only be a couple of
:07:32. > :07:35.months away from the referendum, and it will be in the papers and on the
:07:36. > :07:39.television, because the politicians will be out and they will be
:07:40. > :07:43.campaigning. It will keep on going on, the debate will go on. It'll be
:07:44. > :07:48.nice to have something else on the papers at that time.
:07:49. > :07:53.Lord McConnell made an interesting point about sport and politics in
:07:54. > :07:59.Scotland mixing badly, in 1986 touring the Commonwealth Games, it
:08:00. > :08:05.was pretty disastrous for those games, because of the boycott, half
:08:06. > :08:11.the teams did not turn up. Yes, the circumstances were very
:08:12. > :08:15.different. It was the UK Government and Margaret Thatcher's approach to
:08:16. > :08:22.South Africa, and many people boycotted the Commonwealth Games,
:08:23. > :08:24.which led to a major loss of revenue and sponsorship. The Commonwealth
:08:25. > :08:29.Games were much reduced as a result and they made a big loss. We're not
:08:30. > :08:33.looking at that in that situation, and there's that was a sudden
:08:34. > :08:38.boycott ahead of the games, which we cannot see. I think the Commonwealth
:08:39. > :08:44.Games here will be very difficult -- different. Although there is a
:08:45. > :08:48.history of politicisation of the Commonwealth Games in Scotland, the
:08:49. > :08:54.situation is very different. Some are very busy year for
:08:55. > :09:00.Scotland. Looking ahead to this afternoon's business, we will get a
:09:01. > :09:05.statement about winter resilience from the Environment Minister. This
:09:06. > :09:08.will look at flooding, we have had a bad winter. But the Scottish
:09:09. > :09:14.Government making this statement, keen to be on top of the weather,
:09:15. > :09:20.considering what happens. This is a case of lessons having
:09:21. > :09:26.been learnt. If we think of the winter of 2010, there was huge
:09:27. > :09:32.problems and traffic on the roads. The then transport Minister was seen
:09:33. > :09:36.to not have done a very good job. He lost his job as a result. Ever since
:09:37. > :09:41.then, the Scottish Government has been very keen to keep on top of
:09:42. > :09:49.anything to do with whether. They would not like to lose a second
:09:50. > :09:52.minute stuff. -- politician. We have seen statements on the weather,
:09:53. > :09:58.despite the weather not being as bad as it is in England.
:09:59. > :10:03.It is not like the conditions in America. We have been seeing the
:10:04. > :10:08.polar vortex that in the Arctic Circle in North America. Paul
:10:09. > :10:12.Wheelhouse will be making a statement soon, looking at some of
:10:13. > :10:18.the challenging whether that we have had soon. We will head to the
:10:19. > :10:22.chamber now. He is just being introduced. We will listen to him
:10:23. > :10:27.speak. The severe winter weather across
:10:28. > :10:33.Scotland during the festive period. We should acknowledge the tremendous
:10:34. > :10:38.work done by the emergency services during the past two weeks. As I have
:10:39. > :10:43.seen myself, there is no good reason to be hit by flood damage. It is
:10:44. > :10:48.leased to disruption. However, looking at these scenarios over the
:10:49. > :10:54.winter period was very difficult for families and businesses, and the
:10:55. > :10:58.emergency services dealing with the consequences. Although small in
:10:59. > :11:04.number, we think of all of those whose Christmas period was adversely
:11:05. > :11:08.affected by disrupted travel or flooding. Credit must go to the
:11:09. > :11:17.hundreds of staff across police, ambulance, evacuation and other key
:11:18. > :11:25.organisations, who sacrificed their Christmas to help others. The
:11:26. > :11:30.organisation had already been active earlier in the year, working with
:11:31. > :11:34.power companies and local authorities at -- looking at the
:11:35. > :11:40.weather conditions earlier in the month. Responders were given an
:11:41. > :11:44.early warning the week before Christmas of a potential severe
:11:45. > :11:48.weather warning. This meant that all the organisations could be on alert
:11:49. > :11:55.and could warn people of what was expected, what people could do to
:11:56. > :12:01.protect themselves and watch the action that the authorities were
:12:02. > :12:04.doing. The Scottish Government's resilience was reacted and the
:12:05. > :12:12.emergency committee copped people through to the Christmas period --
:12:13. > :12:15.helped people. There was close involvement from the First Minister.
:12:16. > :12:24.The quarter nested effort, with a sharing of detailed information
:12:25. > :12:28.helped to ensure that local authorities and services and the
:12:29. > :12:35.people they represented. -- coordinated effort. This included
:12:36. > :12:44.the use of the defences in Oban and the deployment of Dumfries and
:12:45. > :12:48.Galloway services, which provided flood protection equipment to
:12:49. > :12:52.properties in the area. No one in this chamber would ever expect
:12:53. > :12:58.Scotland to be immune from terrible weather, and what we have
:12:59. > :13:11.experienced this year is not unprecedented, but is unusual. The
:13:12. > :13:17.Met office's staff have done a survey, suggesting that December
:13:18. > :13:21.2013 was one of the most stormy months in Scotland. Temperatures
:13:22. > :13:27.were above average. For Scotland and for the UK, this was the mildest
:13:28. > :13:32.December since 1988. But it was also the wettest December since 1910,
:13:33. > :13:43.with many areas seeing twice the average rainfall, to give saturated
:13:44. > :13:50.land not being able to drain. There were 540 millimetres of rain in
:13:51. > :13:53.December, 240% of the average. 18 of those days saw more than 20
:13:54. > :14:02.millimetres of rain. We will no longer -- no doubt have even more
:14:03. > :14:07.rain later. We will continue to monitor the situation, and work with
:14:08. > :14:10.partners to respond accordingly over the next few weeks. A widespread
:14:11. > :14:16.flood risk was present throughout the festive period, and in some
:14:17. > :14:22.areas this was continuous since mid-December. There was seven flood
:14:23. > :14:29.alert still in place, despite the improved weather over the last few
:14:30. > :14:33.days. Most of the weather was in line with normal expectations, but
:14:34. > :14:40.there were lots of rain without brakes, not giving the ground chance
:14:41. > :14:46.to recover. This was combined with tidal surges, very strong winds.
:14:47. > :14:52.Some smaller catchments are responsive to these events. I saw
:14:53. > :14:59.this when I visited an area as a regional member. Escher saw some of
:15:00. > :15:07.the worst flooding in recent memory. -- Ayrshire. And Islands experienced
:15:08. > :15:14.the damaging flood surges and gales. The flood forecasting service
:15:15. > :15:18.was active in providing warnings to local people. This meant that they
:15:19. > :15:24.could respond to the flooding. Unfortunately, it was not possible
:15:25. > :15:29.to stop flooding everywhere, but we were able to measure its impact. I
:15:30. > :15:35.saw the effects of flooding in Dumfries and I visited Govan police
:15:36. > :15:44.station to see the things being done to stop coastal flooding. They were
:15:45. > :15:52.providing flood warnings and allowing the public to make informed
:15:53. > :15:59.decisions. Over the last month SEPA issued 368 flood warning messages to
:16:00. > :16:04.customers. Since mid-December, SEPA have had over 1,000 new
:16:05. > :16:15.registrations to their flood line service, an increase of 7%. This is
:16:16. > :16:18.an invaluable resource and I would encourage members to publicise this
:16:19. > :16:25.resource. Members will wish to support me in thanking emergency
:16:26. > :16:29.responders across Scotland. They were consistently available and
:16:30. > :16:34.active and taking responses to identify flood risk and protecting
:16:35. > :16:40.communities. This preparedness was essential, however in terms of flood
:16:41. > :16:47.risk management. Next week I will host a summit with key partners. We
:16:48. > :16:52.will take stock of the work which will culminate to produce the first
:16:53. > :16:59.round of flood risk management plans. That was the environment Paul
:17:00. > :17:02.Wheelhouse. Scottish pupils in the first three years of primary school
:17:03. > :17:05.will receive free school meals from January next year. The First Minster
:17:06. > :17:07.outlined the move as MSPs debated Scotland's future, ahead of the
:17:08. > :17:13.independence referendum this September. Alex Salmond also
:17:14. > :17:20.announced improvements to childcare. I can announce after discussions we
:17:21. > :17:30.will fund three school meals for all school-children in primaries one to
:17:31. > :17:35.three from next January. That measure will build on and of course
:17:36. > :17:39.learn from the pilots we established in the five local authority areas in
:17:40. > :17:44.2007. It will remove any possibility of free meals being a source of
:17:45. > :17:50.stigma during the first years of a child's schooling and improve health
:17:51. > :17:56.and be wort ?330 a year for each child to families across the
:17:57. > :18:05.country. The Scottish Government is inecreasing the level of free care
:18:06. > :18:16.available. That contrasts with the 412 hours we inherited in 2007. I
:18:17. > :18:18.can announce today that we will increase the number of
:18:19. > :18:27.two-year-olds, currently 3%, who will benefit from free learning and
:18:28. > :18:27.care and focus on families most in need. From this August, the
:18:28. > :18:30.entitlement to cover two-year-olds and families seeking work,
:18:31. > :18:36.approximately 15% of the total. This will give parents additional support
:18:37. > :18:39.for employment and will maintain that support when they're
:18:40. > :18:45.successful. In August 2015, we are going to expand the provision
:18:46. > :18:49.further for all children who meet the current criteria for free school
:18:50. > :18:59.meals. So 27% of two-year-olds will be covered, more than 15,000
:19:00. > :19:04.children in Scotland. We need to create a tax, welfare and child care
:19:05. > :19:09.system that doesn't plunge children into poverty and puts us on a par
:19:10. > :19:14.with the best systems in the world and that is why the future of
:19:15. > :19:21.Scotland's children is the future of Scotland and why Scotland's future
:19:22. > :19:25.is an independent one. All of a sudden the test of your commitment
:19:26. > :19:29.on child poverty was on fwree school meals. I would argue it is a much
:19:30. > :19:36.richer and more substantial debate than that. You could have chosen to
:19:37. > :19:42.reinvest some of the billion pounds he has cut from antipoverty measures
:19:43. > :19:45.that provided free breakfasts for poorer children. That would have
:19:46. > :19:49.been a good thing. When asked about the White Paper, Alex Salmond said
:19:50. > :19:54.the thing he was most proud of, remember then? The thing he was most
:19:55. > :19:58.proud of was his commitment to child care. What he had was an opportunity
:19:59. > :20:03.to show his commitment to child care was more than a referendum ploy and
:20:04. > :20:11.start delivering for working families and children now. Broken
:20:12. > :20:16.promises on PE. Broken promises on class sizes and student debt, broken
:20:17. > :20:22.promises on free school meals. So let's get on to the child care
:20:23. > :20:28.element of this t. And go back to the 2007 manifesto. Page 49. Our
:20:29. > :20:36.goal is to deliver universal integrated early education and care,
:20:37. > :20:41.similar to the Scandinavian model. Again page 51, we will increase the
:20:42. > :20:48.provision of free nursery education for three and four-year-olds. That
:20:49. > :20:53.means increasing entitlement from 300 to 600 hours a year. Nearly
:20:54. > :21:02.seven years it has taken them and that 600 hours of free child care is
:21:03. > :21:06.still not implemented. Let's get some more political reaction to this
:21:07. > :21:09.- we'll stay at Holyrood and speak to the SNP's Stewart Maxwell, Liz
:21:10. > :21:14.Smith from the Conservatives and from Labour, Patricia Ferguson.
:21:15. > :21:18.Stewart Maxwell, is the First Minister being bounced into this,
:21:19. > :21:22.because we are getting free school meals in England. That is a Liberal
:21:23. > :21:27.Democrat policy. A lot of concern about the child care provision in
:21:28. > :21:30.Scotland, after all the promises in the White Paper, you're being
:21:31. > :21:36.bounced into that to provide more child care in Scotland? No, I don't
:21:37. > :21:41.know where you get that from. It is a ridiculous idea. This has been
:21:42. > :21:45.policy for a number of years. We made progress in our first session
:21:46. > :21:50.as a minority government, but we with, we were then hit by the world
:21:51. > :21:54.financial crisis, our budget was cut and it was difficult to make
:21:55. > :21:59.progress after that. But of course with these Barnett consequentials,
:22:00. > :22:08.that has allowed us to implement that policy, that is the 85th out of
:22:09. > :22:12.the 94 promises we made. On child kashgs of course it was in the Whit
:22:13. > :22:16.paper, but that change requires independence, because we need the
:22:17. > :22:20.money from other budgets and the money that the tax income would
:22:21. > :22:24.bring to make that sustainable policy. But we are going as far as
:22:25. > :22:31.we can and introducing new proposals to allow many two-year-olds, 15,500
:22:32. > :22:37.two-year-olds, to get the child care that they want to have. That is a
:22:38. > :22:41.success story and a good news day for families. You admit it took you
:22:42. > :22:49.a long time to implement the free school meals policy. Just let me
:22:50. > :22:57.finish. And it is a two-way street with Westminster, your getting ?214
:22:58. > :23:06.million from the Barnett consequentials and you say that
:23:07. > :23:10.money would flow to Westminster, be I but you also get money from
:23:11. > :23:14.Westminster. There is some money available. But thousands of millions
:23:15. > :23:18.are being cut in real terms from the Scottish budget and a small amount
:23:19. > :23:22.has come back. That is welcome that we are getting that. But it does
:23:23. > :23:28.start to make up for the real terms cut. It is only with independence
:23:29. > :23:31.that we will be allowed to get the full powers to drive forward the
:23:32. > :23:36.economy and invest in the future of children and grandchildren in this
:23:37. > :23:40.country. That is the way to do it. Get the powers, the taxation coming
:23:41. > :23:46.into Scotland and when you have that ability, then you can make the real
:23:47. > :23:52.transformational changes we want to see. What would the no camp do? They
:23:53. > :23:56.have been silent. Liz Smith, you were hearing what Mr Maxwell said,
:23:57. > :24:03.that the Scottish Government have suffered under UK Government budget
:24:04. > :24:07.cuts and that he needs that transformational care in child care,
:24:08. > :24:10.and only independence can deliver that. I don't accept it is only
:24:11. > :24:15.something that could come with independence. That is not true. The
:24:16. > :24:19.Scottish Government has the powers available now to deliver on both
:24:20. > :24:22.these and I was a member of the education committee in is in
:24:23. > :24:26.Parliament in 2007 and 2008 when we took substantial evidence on the
:24:27. > :24:29.school meals issue. At that time, the Scottish Government was
:24:30. > :24:33.determined to press the agenda for this free school meals issue, I
:24:34. > :24:39.don't think they can suddenly say it is just for a referendum issue. The
:24:40. > :24:44.reason why the Conservatives chose not to agree with the SNP on a
:24:45. > :24:50.universal policy, is because the evidence that we were given was
:24:51. > :24:53.compelling. It was put to us by the child action poverty group that by
:24:54. > :24:58.the time they get to school, it is almost too late. You need to deliver
:24:59. > :25:02.a policy at the earliest possible ages and we have chosen a priority
:25:03. > :25:06.on health visiting system, which helps to ensure that youngsters
:25:07. > :25:11.through their parents and their families, have the best possible
:25:12. > :25:16.opportunity. That is where our priorities lie. Do you not think
:25:17. > :25:20.there is a real benefit in free school lunches, but children who may
:25:21. > :25:23.not be able to afford it and may have been embarrassed about not
:25:24. > :25:28.being able to afford school lunches can accept them and go home after
:25:29. > :25:32.having a had a good meal. There are two points there. For some children,
:25:33. > :25:36.they're crucial, but that is already happening. The issue about stigma,
:25:37. > :25:40.some of that has been removed, because of the swipe card system in
:25:41. > :25:45.schools. Several local authorities are using that. I don't think it is
:25:46. > :25:50.such a relevant argue. When it comes to real priorities and difficult
:25:51. > :25:54.economic times, I don't think it is acceptable to spend a lot on many
:25:55. > :26:01.children who don't need the fwree school lunch. -- free school lunch.
:26:02. > :26:05.The point was put it might be better spent on breakfast time. On the
:26:06. > :26:10.child care, Mr Maxwell made the point that for that transformational
:26:11. > :26:16.change in child care, all the extra money flows back to the Treasury in
:26:17. > :26:21.Westminster. How can you get that kind of shift in child care without
:26:22. > :26:26.having independence? How can Scotland be able to retain that
:26:27. > :26:32.money? Because the powers and the finances by mrierty -- priority are
:26:33. > :26:36.already with the Parliament. The finances are not. I don't accept
:26:37. > :26:40.that. You choose your own priorities. There is no question
:26:41. > :26:48.that you should be leaving this to the issue of the referendum. It
:26:49. > :26:51.should be happening now. Patricia Ferguson, Johann Lamont said
:26:52. > :26:55.yesterday that school meals would not be my priority in addressing
:26:56. > :27:02.child poverty. We have been hearing from sfu wart Maxwell the reason for
:27:03. > :27:06.focussing on school meals, why are they not Labour's priority? It is
:27:07. > :27:10.important to be clear, we think free school meals are a good thing of
:27:11. > :27:15.themselves, but the problem we had yesterday was that the SNP motion
:27:16. > :27:19.cynically tagged on at the end the fact that in their view you could
:27:20. > :27:23.only achieve good things for young people in Scotland if we were
:27:24. > :27:28.independent. That is not the case. Our view is that actually you will
:27:29. > :27:31.help to take more children out of poverty by providing more child
:27:32. > :27:35.care, for those young children who need it most and those families
:27:36. > :27:40.where mum needs to go out to work. Soivity is a question of priority
:27:41. > :27:45.and a question of where you spend your money. The irony of yesterday
:27:46. > :27:49.was that the SNP actually voted against the issue that they
:27:50. > :27:53.prioritised when they launched their White Paper. Naseems to be a strange
:27:54. > :27:57.-- that seems to be a strange position. Focussing on the child
:27:58. > :28:01.care, the Labour were critical when the White Paper was launched about
:28:02. > :28:05.the child care proposals, but do you not accept what Stewart Maxwell said
:28:06. > :28:11.that independence is perhaps needed for that money to be retained in
:28:12. > :28:15.Scotland? Not at all. We were not critical of the child care measures.
:28:16. > :28:20.We were critical of the fact that the SNP claimed they could only make
:28:21. > :28:25.those changes if we were an independent country. My colleagues
:28:26. > :28:29.have tabled amendments to the SNP's own child care bill that is coming
:28:30. > :28:34.before Parliament soon, that would allow those measures to be taken in
:28:35. > :28:39.the immediate future. But they haven't said where the money is
:28:40. > :28:44.coming from. Actually we have. It would come from all the
:28:45. > :28:50.consequentials, some that have been spent by the SNP elsewhere. You
:28:51. > :28:54.would cut the small business bonus. Let her finish. It would be good to
:28:55. > :28:57.fin whash I was trying to say, that the at the end of the day we have
:28:58. > :29:02.identified where that money can come from and put our amendment into the
:29:03. > :29:06.bill and we hope the SNP will vote for it. After all it is their
:29:07. > :29:10.flagship policy we are told. This is a big issue in the referendum, let's
:29:11. > :29:19.focus on the campaign and we have been heard from Lord McConnell
:29:20. > :29:28.calling for a truce during the Commonwealth Games.
:29:29. > :29:33.I think it is a bit nonsensical. I do not see the point of campaigning
:29:34. > :29:41.where there is a two-week sporting event. It does not make any sense to
:29:42. > :29:44.me at all to suspend the referendum campaigning six weeks before the
:29:45. > :29:49.referendum. The people in Scotland have a right to get involved in
:29:50. > :29:54.this, it does not make sense. What is your position on this?
:29:55. > :30:02.I think what Lord McConnell is saying is that nobody, respective of
:30:03. > :30:07.their views, such... Should be using the Commonwealth Games for political
:30:08. > :30:10.means. I don't think it will be stopping political campaigning, but
:30:11. > :30:16.I think it would be wrong for any side to make the Commonwealth Games
:30:17. > :30:21.a political football. We have seen previous Olympic Games where it has
:30:22. > :30:24.been politicised, and nobody comes out of that well. So I agree with
:30:25. > :30:33.Lord McConnell. Patricia Ferguson, the SNP say it is
:30:34. > :30:40.nonsensical. Others say it will not happen. Do you agree with Lord
:30:41. > :30:45.McConnell? Is it practical? I think the point that he was making
:30:46. > :30:53.was that when we launched the bid, we did so with cross party support.
:30:54. > :30:57.That cross-party mood for support has persisted right through to the
:30:58. > :31:04.present day. We don't want to see the last two weeks of that journey
:31:05. > :31:10.in anyway sullied by politicisation. I, as a former sports minister, I
:31:11. > :31:19.went to the Melbourne games, and I proudly wore the flag, the saltire,
:31:20. > :31:24.on my shirt. I want people to be able to do that in Glasgow, and it
:31:25. > :31:27.not to be a political matter. I want is all to be behind our athletes and
:31:28. > :31:35.have the best festival of sport that we can have.
:31:36. > :31:41.Thank you for joining us. MSP will have failed the people of
:31:42. > :31:45.Scotland and less they reduce the dominance of traditional sporting
:31:46. > :31:50.estates. That is the message from Paul Wheelhouse, the minister in
:31:51. > :31:56.charge of reform. He says that the news to be a fair distribution of
:31:57. > :32:00.land. There will be questions about whether the distribution of land is
:32:01. > :32:04.a problem. Here is an extraordinary statistic.
:32:05. > :32:11.Research suggests that just 432 people own half the privately held
:32:12. > :32:15.land in Scotland. That is largely down to big estates are created for
:32:16. > :32:23.shooting and fishing. The table of big land owners includes the
:32:24. > :32:27.government, The National Trust for Scotland, and the RSPB. But
:32:28. > :32:34.traditional estates still hold five of the top ten places, with this
:32:35. > :32:36.estate are leading the pack. The Scottish Government wants to see
:32:37. > :32:40.change. We believe that there should be a
:32:41. > :32:45.fair distribution of land. Communities should have access to
:32:46. > :32:51.land. That is something that we will be setting out provisions for.
:32:52. > :32:59.If in decades to come we still have a passion of -- pattern of land
:33:00. > :33:02.ownership in rural Scotland were big sporting estates and dominate the
:33:03. > :33:05.land, will that be a failure of government?
:33:06. > :33:10.If we don't see a more fair distribution of land, we will have
:33:11. > :33:13.failed the people of Scotland. But is fairness and issue the
:33:14. > :33:17.government should act on? One man, who owns a very large estate, thinks
:33:18. > :33:28.not. This is a critical element in life.
:33:29. > :33:32.It may not be fair, but it is -- is it fair that your wife is more
:33:33. > :33:39.pretty than mine, that you win the lottery and I don't? It is a concern
:33:40. > :33:44.stirred up by those with axes to grind. The people who live in these
:33:45. > :33:49.large areas, it does not seem to bother them. The government has set
:33:50. > :33:51.up an expert group to look at land ownership.
:33:52. > :33:57.The minister says he does not want to get rid of all bigger states, but
:33:58. > :34:04.he has asked for radical proposals. He will get them in the spring.
:34:05. > :34:07.We will pick up on that issue with Hamish. He is still here in the
:34:08. > :34:13.studio. Some extraordinary statistics about land in Scotland.
:34:14. > :34:16.We are hearing from Paul Wheelhouse, the Scottish Government
:34:17. > :34:20.wants change and a fairer distribution of land. But is this
:34:21. > :34:23.difficult to achieve? It is difficult to achieve. If you
:34:24. > :34:29.look back at the early days of Parliament, we have already had one
:34:30. > :34:33.major land reform act which tried to change the system behind land
:34:34. > :34:36.ownership in Scotland. I think that the SNP government try to go further
:34:37. > :34:40.because they feel that it is their duty to go further, however
:34:41. > :34:45.difficult it may be. I think there is a sense in which there is a
:34:46. > :34:50.feeling within some parts of the urban elite in Scotland that somehow
:34:51. > :34:54.landowners are bad and that community ownership is right. There
:34:55. > :34:57.are occasions where community ownership has not worked and
:34:58. > :35:06.community have not. The land that was offered to them. The danger is
:35:07. > :35:12.that we get sucked into characterisation, without looking at
:35:13. > :35:14.what could be do -- be done to look after land ownership in this
:35:15. > :35:21.country. Labour has criticised the Scottish
:35:22. > :35:26.Government, looking at what is in the documentary this evening. Labour
:35:27. > :35:31.is saying that they are going to continue to do right to buy, even if
:35:32. > :35:36.people are not willing to sell. That is controversial, because they
:35:37. > :35:41.are looking to break up some of the traditional sporting estates and let
:35:42. > :35:48.farmers have chunks of it. But if you do that, you devalue the land.
:35:49. > :35:53.And what would the market by UB? One of the big things that are
:35:54. > :35:56.landowners have profited from has-been wind farms and renewables.
:35:57. > :36:02.And if you were to get the mission for renewables on your land, that
:36:03. > :36:06.puts the price up. So forcing a landowner to sell when they do not
:36:07. > :36:14.agree with the valuation that has been put on it is very difficult.
:36:15. > :36:19.So in Prime Minister's Questions, it was a sombre mood at first,
:36:20. > :36:29.following the announcement that the Labour MP Paul Goggins had died.
:36:30. > :36:33.Later, there was hilarity over questions about the referendum. But
:36:34. > :36:37.first, Ed Miliband talked about the weather.
:36:38. > :36:41.Why has it taken so long for some of the distribution energy companies to
:36:42. > :36:46.restore power over the Christmas period, and what steps will be taken
:36:47. > :36:51.to stop that happening again? I think he is right, there are
:36:52. > :36:57.always lessons to learn. There are lessons to learn on this occasion.
:36:58. > :37:00.On the positive side, the Environment Agency warning service
:37:01. > :37:04.works better than it has in the past. Over 1 million homes were
:37:05. > :37:07.protected. But there are some negatives there, and we need to
:37:08. > :37:11.learn lessons. With the energy companies did not have enough people
:37:12. > :37:16.over the holiday period for emergency response. I saw that for
:37:17. > :37:22.myself in Kent. So we need to learn these lessons. The Energy Secretary
:37:23. > :37:25.is already looking at the levels of compensation and the speed of
:37:26. > :37:30.response from energy companies, but I would welcome from all members of
:37:31. > :37:33.all constituencies affected by flooding what they see on the ground
:37:34. > :37:37.about lessons that can be learned so that we can make sure that we are
:37:38. > :37:42.even more prepared in the future. The Prime Minister will know that
:37:43. > :37:47.the science is clear that the extreme weather conditions affecting
:37:48. > :37:51.our communities are a destructive and inevitable consequence, in part,
:37:52. > :37:57.of climate change. Given that he has said that this should be the
:37:58. > :38:00.greenest government ever, will he agreed to support carbon reduction
:38:01. > :38:07.targets, so we can protect more people?
:38:08. > :38:12.It makes sense to invest in flood defences and get information out. We
:38:13. > :38:16.should see all of these things. As for carbon reduction targets, we are
:38:17. > :38:23.committed to that. We worked with the last government to put the
:38:24. > :38:27.carbon act into place. It would not have happened without our support.
:38:28. > :38:36.We will be investing liens of pounds into important green projects.
:38:37. > :38:39.The Prime Minister's anti-independence programme launched
:38:40. > :38:45.an initiative to get people outside Scotland involved in debate. Why
:38:46. > :38:49.will you not speak to the First Minister and debate with him on
:38:50. > :38:54.television? These calls for a debate show a
:38:55. > :38:58.mounting frustration, because people know that they are losing the
:38:59. > :39:02.argument. Of course there should be a debate, but it is a debate between
:39:03. > :39:11.people in Scotland. Can I agree with the Prime
:39:12. > :39:18.Minister? It is genuinely absurd that the leader of the no campaign
:39:19. > :39:25.in Scotland cannot get a debate with the leader of the yes campaign in
:39:26. > :39:30.Scotland. The leader of the yes campaign demands a debate with
:39:31. > :39:36.someone who does not have a vote. Does the Prime Minister agree with
:39:37. > :39:44.me that in politics, as in shipbuilding, empty vessels make the
:39:45. > :39:57.most noise? I am not finished!
:39:58. > :40:01.There is more. Without seeking to give offence to the Prime Minister,
:40:02. > :40:08.could I tell him that the last person Scots who support the no
:40:09. > :40:20.campaign want to have as their representative is a Tory toff from
:40:21. > :40:26.the Home Counties, even one with a fine hair cut?
:40:27. > :40:30.I also humbly accept that, whilst I am sure that many people in Scotland
:40:31. > :40:36.would like to hear me talk about this issue, my appeal does not
:40:37. > :40:41.stretch to every part. But the key point here is making is correct. The
:40:42. > :40:47.reason that the leaders of the yes campaign and the no campaign cannot
:40:48. > :40:50.get a debate, the people who want to break up the United Kingdom know
:40:51. > :40:56.that they are losing the argument, so they want to break up the United
:40:57. > :41:01.Kingdom. End of term hilarity at Westminster.
:41:02. > :41:07.We will talk to our reporter at Westminster.
:41:08. > :41:13.Happy New Year to you. It will be a busy year at Westminster and in
:41:14. > :41:20.Scotland, and a busy year relating to what happens to Scotland in the
:41:21. > :41:28.weeks and months to come. I have three guests with me. I am joined by
:41:29. > :41:34.representatives from the Liberal Democrats, Labour and the Scottish
:41:35. > :41:38.National Party. Welcome to you all. Jerry, you will be in the house of
:41:39. > :41:45.lords this evening, when you will be debating about the Commonwealth
:41:46. > :41:48.Games in Glasgow. He wants to take the politics out of sport, as
:41:49. > :41:54.regards to the Commonwealth Games. Is that likely to happen?
:41:55. > :41:59.I think it is a wise suggestion. I will be supporting his argument. I
:42:00. > :42:06.would like, when the world's eyes are on Glasgow in the summer, for
:42:07. > :42:12.him to see sports people and athletes striving in their own
:42:13. > :42:16.sport, not politicians striving to get capital out of it. So I think it
:42:17. > :42:23.is a good warning that we should focus on the games taking place, not
:42:24. > :42:27.whether or not politicians are trying to get popularity. We should
:42:28. > :42:32.let the sport to take place. There is enough time before the referendum
:42:33. > :42:36.for a full debate. The debate will carry on throughout the games, but
:42:37. > :42:40.allow the window of the world to be on Glasgow in the games to make sure
:42:41. > :42:44.it is as accessible as possible. Will that be likely to happen? Or
:42:45. > :42:51.will you enjoyed colleagues not be able to resist the temptation? --
:42:52. > :42:56.will you and your colleagues? I think everyone has been working
:42:57. > :42:59.together since 2004 to get the Commonwealth Games to Glasgow, and I
:43:00. > :43:05.would be surprised if anyone would want to exploit them at this stage.
:43:06. > :43:11.There has been a lot of media coverage, and it will be covering
:43:12. > :43:13.what is happening in the stadiums, rather than the referendum at that
:43:14. > :43:18.stage. We may all look at the sport for a
:43:19. > :43:22.couple of weeks, maybe we won't carry about the politics?
:43:23. > :43:26.I think that the politicians will always care about the politics.
:43:27. > :43:32.These Commonwealth Games will be a massive success, that is very
:43:33. > :43:39.important. But I think that the politicians will fly their own flags
:43:40. > :43:42.in support of their own national teams, but it is the support that
:43:43. > :43:48.comes first in the Commonwealth Games. The politics will come
:43:49. > :43:52.second. The idea that you can sense that you can censor out a political
:43:53. > :43:59.argument is preposterous. So you will encourage English
:44:00. > :44:04.politicians to come up and fly the St George flag in Glasgow?
:44:05. > :44:09.Yes, I want everyone to support their own teams as best as they can.
:44:10. > :44:14.That is normal and natural. I will return to that point.
:44:15. > :44:18.Politicians being politicians, they will not be able to resist the
:44:19. > :44:25.opportunity of trying to get and it -- an advantage here?
:44:26. > :44:30.We are all proud of Scotland. We are proud of Glasgow. We are proud of
:44:31. > :44:34.what will happen. We will certainly show our support for the games. But
:44:35. > :44:38.I think it would be unwise for anyone to exploit them. We saw what
:44:39. > :44:44.happened to George Osborne at the Olympics, and it would be a shame if
:44:45. > :44:48.those kind of circumstances repeat themselves.
:44:49. > :44:53.We will move onto another issue. Television debates the referendum
:44:54. > :44:58.campaign will stop at Prime Minister's Question Time, we had a
:44:59. > :45:04.call for David Cameron and Alex Salmond to debate to head to head.
:45:05. > :45:09.I was watching for them -- I was watching from the gallery, and I
:45:10. > :45:13.think it is right. As much as everyone in the rest of the United
:45:14. > :45:19.Kingdom will have opinions and views, it really is a debate that
:45:20. > :45:24.should be had tween those who will be having a vote. I think it is
:45:25. > :45:28.right that the leader of the yes campaign should debate with the
:45:29. > :45:33.leader of the no campaign, and people with different views should
:45:34. > :45:39.debate. It is not an issue of other parts of the United Kingdom against
:45:40. > :45:45.Scotland, or the Prime Minister debating against Scotland, and are
:45:46. > :45:52.examined debating for Scotland's. -- Alex Salmond. That is insulting. It
:45:53. > :45:58.is a debate between the two campaigns. Why can't the leader of
:45:59. > :46:04.the no campaign get a debate with the leader of the yes campaign. Yes,
:46:05. > :46:09.we devolved the legislation to allow the referendum to happen in Scotland
:46:10. > :46:14.to be a decision taken by Scots to be run by Scots. It is bizarre that
:46:15. > :46:20.Alex Salmond only wants to debate an Englishman on this and won't debate
:46:21. > :46:23.another Scotsman. Well the First Minister has been clear, he will
:46:24. > :46:30.debate with anybody. If we are going to have the chief executives of the
:46:31. > :46:34.campaigns and the chairman of the campaigns debate, we should have a
:46:35. > :46:38.proper debate between the First Minister and Prime Minister. The
:46:39. > :46:43.Prime Minister has said he wants to defend the union, Westminster are
:46:44. > :46:47.pulling the strings on this, so he can't manipulate things and then run
:46:48. > :46:50.away from the debate. This should be a debate between the First Minister
:46:51. > :46:55.and the Prime Minister and the then the First Minister will debate after
:46:56. > :46:59.that. He has made that clear. The Scottish referendum is not the only
:47:00. > :47:03.campaign, we have the euro elections and throughout the United Kingdom
:47:04. > :47:09.immigration is likely to be a big issue. Is that good or bad? I think
:47:10. > :47:18.it will be a bigger issue in some parts than others. That is one of
:47:19. > :47:24.the glories of having the debate. Some more rural areas are more
:47:25. > :47:29.focussed on agriculture and some will be attuned in England. But
:47:30. > :47:33.across the board, I think Scotland's voice is properly represented in the
:47:34. > :47:39.EU. The Liberal Democrats will be fighting a positive pro-European
:47:40. > :47:44.campaign and George Lion has been a superb MEP for Scotland and we will
:47:45. > :47:51.work to make sure he is re-elected for voice hi has provided for
:47:52. > :47:55.Scotland. Not just in Scotland, but throughout the United Kingdom, are
:47:56. > :47:59.you worried if we get into a debate on immigration it can be conducted
:48:00. > :48:06.in a cool and dispassionate way? I hope that it can. But there are some
:48:07. > :48:12.elements and parties who are seeking not to have a rationale debate. But
:48:13. > :48:15.to have a debate based on fear. That is unfortunate. There are some in
:48:16. > :48:20.some areas of the country, people have concerns about pressures on
:48:21. > :48:24.services and about the employment market. We think there is more the
:48:25. > :48:30.Government could be doing to enforce the minimum wage, to make sure that
:48:31. > :48:35.people aren't being undercut in the labour market. I hope we can have a
:48:36. > :48:41.sensible discussion. Are you worried that the immigration debate could
:48:42. > :48:45.perhaps get out of control? No, I am not in Scotland. Although I do think
:48:46. > :48:50.as others have said, in parts of the UK, there is a concern that it could
:48:51. > :48:55.happen. I'm the same as Jemma, I think there is a acceptsible --
:48:56. > :49:02.sensible debate to have so Scotland and the UK get the skilled people we
:49:03. > :49:11.need. But much of the Westminster debate is dog whistle debate and it
:49:12. > :49:18.is Tory backbenchers scared of UKIP politicians. That is unhelpful.
:49:19. > :49:22.Thank you. As I think you get an impression, this is going to be a
:49:23. > :49:30.huge political year, not only in Scotland, but pretty important down
:49:31. > :49:33.here at Westminster as well. Thank you. Let's head back to the chamber
:49:34. > :49:36.at Holyrood now for something completely different from the winter
:49:37. > :49:39.resilience statement - a debate on Scotland's economy. The Finance
:49:40. > :49:42.Secretary John Swinney is welcoming the green shoots of recovery, but
:49:43. > :49:50.says that's been delayed by the UK Government's economic mismanagement,
:49:51. > :49:55.as he puts it. Let's dip back into the chamber. John Swinney is
:49:56. > :50:03.speaking. Now, the Scottish Government sets out in our budget to
:50:04. > :50:06.discuss the different stages of the government's budget programme, which
:50:07. > :50:11.is focussed in a whole variety of different areas, whether on the
:50:12. > :50:16.development of skills, or on the execution of our capital invest
:50:17. > :50:21.programme, or about the steps taken forward to ensure that all aspects
:50:22. > :50:26.of policy in government are focussed on economic growth, to ensure that
:50:27. > :50:34.the programme and policy development that we exercise within our own
:50:35. > :50:37.competence is taken, is maximised to contribute towards economic growth
:50:38. > :50:42.in Scotland. We as a government have attached a Sigg captain amount --
:50:43. > :50:48.significant amount of attention to ensure that businesses in Scotland
:50:49. > :50:52.can take forward their investments in Scotland and knowing they
:50:53. > :50:58.operated within the most competitive business rates regime in the UK. We
:50:59. > :51:02.are proud that over 90,000 small businesses are able to pay either
:51:03. > :51:07.reduced business rates, or no business rates. That is a policy
:51:08. > :51:11.commitment that we confirm very firmly to Parliament today that we
:51:12. > :51:16.believe that our manifesto commitments to support the small
:51:17. > :51:19.business community with a small business bonus scheme, that we
:51:20. > :51:23.should have businesses in Scotland paying the same poundage that
:51:24. > :51:27.businesses in England pay. We believe there is an port commitn't
:51:28. > :51:31.to -- important commitment to ensure the business community can plan for
:51:32. > :51:36.the future and able to invest in the operations and the activities of the
:51:37. > :51:42.business community. Now, we will continue to assert those during the
:51:43. > :51:47.course of the Parliamentary passage of the budget. This government makes
:51:48. > :51:50.clear there is a certain amount of economic impact that we can achieve
:51:51. > :51:52.through the response v responsibilities that --
:51:53. > :51:56.responsibilities that we have, but there is more that we would want to
:51:57. > :52:00.do with the greater powers of independence. We would want to focus
:52:01. > :52:05.policy more through using the tax system to support innovation and the
:52:06. > :52:09.development of new technologies and would want to ensure that an
:52:10. > :52:13.integrated tax system that was integrated and joined together, the
:52:14. > :52:19.various aspects of corporate taxation, with the needs of our
:52:20. > :52:23.economy, or the links between employability and personal taxation
:52:24. > :52:28.and welfare policies were all linked in a coherent way. That we could
:52:29. > :52:34.ensure that that system operated on a more focussed and efficient basis,
:52:35. > :52:45.that thirdly we could take steps to support the development of a more
:52:46. > :52:50.integrated global economy with greater success in regard to inward
:52:51. > :52:54.invest ement. And finally in boosting participation in the labour
:52:55. > :52:59.market, which we believe to be of fundamental importance to ensuring
:53:00. > :53:03.the growth and the development of the Scottish economy. At the heart
:53:04. > :53:08.of the white paper that was published in November, is the
:53:09. > :53:14.Government's commitment to expand in, by a transformational level the
:53:15. > :53:19.volume of child care available in Scotland. We have explained how that
:53:20. > :53:24.can only be done by having the scale of resources available to us to
:53:25. > :53:27.redeploy resources that should be better spent in Scotland by
:53:28. > :53:32.investing in child care and not being spent on supporting the
:53:33. > :53:39.weapons of mass destruction that are supported by the public finances of
:53:40. > :53:43.the United Kingdom. One minute left. What our priority is to make sure
:53:44. > :53:47.that we use those resources for the maximum economic benefit within
:53:48. > :53:54.Scotland. We can take some of the steps the First Minister outlined
:53:55. > :54:00.yesterday, within our economisting -- existing competence and create an
:54:01. > :54:05.additional 2,000 child care work places through funding of ?3.5
:54:06. > :54:09.million the government will make available for the development of
:54:10. > :54:13.child care workforce to increase employment. We can do that within
:54:14. > :54:17.the competence of the Scottish Government. If we want to take
:54:18. > :54:24.forward the effects of the approach on child care that we set out in
:54:25. > :54:30.Scotland's future, we must have the ability to take the strategic
:54:31. > :54:34.decisions to redeploy expenditure and support the growth of the
:54:35. > :54:38.economy and to ensure that the resources that generates, the
:54:39. > :54:46.benefits that generates for the Scottish economy can be re-invested
:54:47. > :54:50.to nvigorate the economy and deliver the opportunities to the people of
:54:51. > :54:59.Scotland and I move the motion in my name. Thank you. I call on Ian Grey
:55:00. > :55:05.to speak to the amendment. A strict ten minutes please. Thank you and I
:55:06. > :55:09.move the amendment in my name. Improvements in the employment
:55:10. > :55:13.position, the economic position, the signs of economic recovery outlined
:55:14. > :55:19.by the cabinet Secretary are welcome. But he did I think describe
:55:20. > :55:23.them as relatively positive and wisely, because to understand the
:55:24. > :55:29.fragility of the economic position, we co-have -- do have to look behind
:55:30. > :55:34.the headline figures at the reality of the recovery from many Scots and
:55:35. > :55:40.their families. The truth is there are still almost 75,000 more Scots
:55:41. > :55:44.unemployed than with when the cabinet Secretary took office. There
:55:45. > :55:48.is a long way to go yet. And true too that too many of the jobs which
:55:49. > :55:55.have been created are insecure, temporary, part-time, zero hour
:55:56. > :56:03.contracts, or poorly paid. That was Ian Grey speaking. You can follow
:56:04. > :56:10.that debate on the web-site. Now a final chat with Hamish McDonnell.
:56:11. > :56:15.Let's pick up on immigration, it has been a big topic even over Christmas
:56:16. > :56:19.and looking ahead to the European elections in May. It will be a big
:56:20. > :56:26.topic until then isn't it? Yes, it is. Imcombrags is -- immigration is
:56:27. > :56:29.a funny issue that has worked up the political agenda and is now in
:56:30. > :56:34.second or third place. It has been pushed there by Conservative
:56:35. > :56:38.backbench MPs worried about UKIP. And whether or not those fears that
:56:39. > :56:44.people have about immigration are really true, or not, or whether they
:56:45. > :56:49.are being whipped up by some MPs. We will have to wait and see. What is
:56:50. > :56:52.important is there appears to be difference between the way Scotland
:56:53. > :56:56.views immigration and the way certainly part of southern England
:56:57. > :57:00.view immigration. I don't think it is nearly the sort of issue here
:57:01. > :57:04.that it is in England. I think you will see that in the results of
:57:05. > :57:07.European elections that UKIP will do well in England. But I would be
:57:08. > :57:12.surprised if it does anything like as well in Scotland. In fact it
:57:13. > :57:21.would really struggle to get above any of the other parties in
:57:22. > :57:25.Scotland. Immigration is a key part in the Scottish referendum. The
:57:26. > :57:30.Scottish Government says immigration would help to grow the economy. Yes,
:57:31. > :57:34.they have been positive about immigration. It doesn't have the
:57:35. > :57:38.same impact in Scotland and we have a need for skilled workers to come
:57:39. > :57:42.in from outside and the Scottish Government has said, yes, we would
:57:43. > :57:45.welcome a people to come to Scotland to give us that employment boost and
:57:46. > :57:50.the skill levels that we haven't got. That has changed the debate and
:57:51. > :57:55.it is a different debate up here for the referendum than as far as
:57:56. > :57:59.looking ahead to the next UK general election in England. In terms of
:58:00. > :58:06.debate, we have the European elections, will it set the heather
:58:07. > :58:09.on fire do you think? It is the forgotten election. This is the
:58:10. > :58:15.election that everyone has forgotten about, because it is so much further
:58:16. > :58:24.down the ranking than the referendum and turn out may be poor in
:58:25. > :58:28.Scotland. Thank you for that. That's all we have time for this afternoon.
:58:29. > :58:31.We're back at the same time next week, 2.30, here on BBC Two. Thanks
:58:32. > :58:42.for your company, bye for now.