:00:17. > :00:20.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up on the
:00:21. > :00:23.programme: Weighing up the balance of accounts,
:00:24. > :00:33.a sharp fall in oil extraction means Scotland's public spending deficit
:00:34. > :00:39.has risen. Here at Westminster, Ed Miliband in
:00:40. > :00:42.effect called out and -- rules out a referendum on EU membership is his
:00:43. > :00:45.party wins the next general election.
:00:46. > :00:48.And our live debate in the chamber, Labour criticise efforts to improve
:00:49. > :00:51.air quality in Scotland. The balance between spending and
:00:52. > :00:54.taxation in Scotland has shifted deeper into the red. In the last
:00:55. > :00:58.financial year, the deficit here became larger than the UK's as a
:00:59. > :01:00.whole. Those against independence say that makes Scotland's
:01:01. > :01:03.whole. Those against independence staying in the union but Scottish
:01:04. > :01:06.ministers say their report shows Scotland's one of the world's
:01:07. > :01:13.wealthiest countries. Here's our business and economy editor Douglas
:01:14. > :01:16.Fraser. This is a health check on
:01:17. > :01:23.Scotland's public finances. Every year, government statisticians
:01:24. > :01:26.estimate how much is spent in Scotland, for Scotland and how much
:01:27. > :01:33.is raised on Tech nation -- taxation. Last financial year,
:01:34. > :01:40.spending on Scotland and for Scotland ran to 65 billion. Tax was
:01:41. > :01:45.at 53 billion. A deficit of ?12 billion. Translated into a share of
:01:46. > :01:49.the nation's output of gross domestic product, that comes to a
:01:50. > :01:55..2%. That deficit used to be lower than the UK deficit. It is now
:01:56. > :02:03.higher. What has made the big difference is that receipts of oil
:02:04. > :02:07.and gas production. The Scottish air has fallen from ?10 billion to 5.6
:02:08. > :02:16.billion in a year. The role of oil and gas in shaping Scotland's
:02:17. > :02:20.future. This is mainly for good reasons, a surge of investment in
:02:21. > :02:23.the North Sea disorder is tax deductible. ?2 billion was tax
:02:24. > :02:27.deductible from that investment. I is that good? Because in a few
:02:28. > :02:32.years' time, you get the benefit from that and greater benefit coming
:02:33. > :02:37.on stream. Of course the reserve which remain hugely important but
:02:38. > :02:41.they are almost twice as expensive now to extract as they used to be.
:02:42. > :02:46.As a result, the tax which is paid on that oil is declining. That is
:02:47. > :02:49.why we have seen a 44% drop in a single year.
:02:50. > :02:51.I'm now joined in the studio by Douglas and by our political
:02:52. > :02:53.commentator for the afternoon, Lyndsey Macintosh, the Scottish
:02:54. > :02:59.political correspondent of The Times, based at Holyrood.
:03:00. > :03:04.A good afternoon to both of you. Thank you for joining me. First of
:03:05. > :03:11.all, Douglas, a lot of figures for mere mortals to look over. Some of
:03:12. > :03:16.them! These figures are critical to the independent study, are they not
:03:17. > :03:19.question they have been. One of the things which jurors has done which
:03:20. > :03:23.has been very favourable to the case for independence is that they have
:03:24. > :03:26.shown that Scotland can be viable as an independent nation. If we did not
:03:27. > :03:31.have these figures, we would be arguing about whether Scotland could
:03:32. > :03:37.be absorbed within tax. This has kneeled at issue and it is accepted
:03:38. > :03:40.by both sides of the debate that Scotland can be viable. The case has
:03:41. > :03:45.then been made, for the past few years in particular, I those in
:03:46. > :03:48.favour of a yes vote, that Scotland have been in a relatively good
:03:49. > :03:51.fiscal position compared with the UK. Remember, both have been in a
:03:52. > :03:56.terrible fiscal position because of what happened six years ago with the
:03:57. > :04:00.crunch. We have to see all of this in this context. These deficits,
:04:01. > :04:03.however you can't then, are far too high and could not be stained at
:04:04. > :04:09.that level. What has flipped this year is that the relatively strong,
:04:10. > :04:12.relatively less weak, position for Scotland has flipped over to a
:04:13. > :04:16.relatively weaker position for the rest of the UK. It is an argument
:04:17. > :04:20.that has been used so much by the yes campaign, the Scottish
:04:21. > :04:24.Government, that Scotland is in a stronger position, it cannot make
:04:25. > :04:27.that case any more. It has to be nuanced and the way they are using
:04:28. > :04:31.the figures today is that they wanted to argue that
:04:32. > :04:34.the figures today is that they over five years. Percentage of GDP
:04:35. > :04:38.per head and it gives very complex in order to find the numbers that
:04:39. > :04:42.fit their case. To be honest, this muddies the whole argument quite a
:04:43. > :04:47.lot. Hearing from those arguments, with some of them in the report
:04:48. > :04:55.there, the political reaction has been quite swift coming out against
:04:56. > :04:59.those in favour of independence. It has been. As done a highlighted, it
:05:00. > :05:03.was the figures last year which were seized upon by the yes campaign, the
:05:04. > :05:08.SNP, to say that we are performing less bad than the rest of the UK.
:05:09. > :05:12.There will be a premium per head of the population if we were to move to
:05:13. > :05:17.independence. We can see exactly the same figures this year showing very
:05:18. > :05:20.different. Douglas, Mister Salmond was saying that in some ways they
:05:21. > :05:26.were quite positive because it showed that there had been a lot
:05:27. > :05:30.more exploration taking place in the future and that would come on stream
:05:31. > :05:34.the couple of years down the line and that the tax revenues would
:05:35. > :05:37.start to flow as well as the oil. A real positive spin. It may be down
:05:38. > :05:42.this year but the future might not be so bad. The keyword was
:05:43. > :05:44.investment. It is partly public-sector investment that
:05:45. > :05:48.Scotland has pushed harder in terms of investment, which has rewards in
:05:49. > :05:54.future years compared with current spending, which does not bring large
:05:55. > :05:58.awards this current year. The oil and gas investment as well has been
:05:59. > :06:02.absolute record levels in the past couple of years. It remains high
:06:03. > :06:07.this year and will follow in to the industry. That means that that is
:06:08. > :06:11.investment that can be written off against tax. It is good news for the
:06:12. > :06:15.north-east and the oil and gas industry, if they are investing.
:06:16. > :06:18.There are two stories however emerging from the oil and gas
:06:19. > :06:23.industry. One is a lot of investment to try to get more out of all feel,
:06:24. > :06:26.develop some big new fields west of Shetland. The other part of the
:06:27. > :06:30.story is that production has fallen far faster than anybody expected
:06:31. > :06:34.stock that is where the tax codes. If the industry did not see how fast
:06:35. > :06:37.it was going to follow way. There are two speeds, forward and reverse,
:06:38. > :06:42.in terms of the oil and gas industry. This issue of investment
:06:43. > :06:48.going into good production going up again after some very steep falls,
:06:49. > :06:51.it is not clear that tax is going to pick up because there will always be
:06:52. > :06:56.big write-offs to come. It has become more expensive to get out of
:06:57. > :07:01.UK waters. Finally, there has been a big focus by ours and the parties on
:07:02. > :07:05.oil and gas. What other taxes have you been looking at? It is quite
:07:06. > :07:08.hefty! They make estimates and assumptions about your spending
:07:09. > :07:14.takes boys. Two thirds of that spending, roughly, goes into welfare
:07:15. > :07:24.and the and about 16 goes into hell. No surprises there. It is always
:07:25. > :07:30.interesting to see how they estimate how Scots raise taxes. Bought take
:07:31. > :07:34.on inheritance tax and stamp duty. The things that Scots spend more art
:07:35. > :07:40.of Apple, in a big way, alcohol and gambling. -- about 16 goes into
:07:41. > :07:43.hell. We'll be back with you later.
:07:44. > :07:45.Claims that TV reporting of the independence referendum have not
:07:46. > :07:49.been fair and balanced have been examined by MSPs. An academic from
:07:50. > :07:51.the University of the West of Scotland told Holyrood's Culture
:07:52. > :07:54.committee about his research, which suggested that coverage on BBC and
:07:55. > :08:00.STV news programmes featured more anti-independence statements. BBC
:08:01. > :08:08.bosses refuted the claims, saying news coverage was balanced and the
:08:09. > :08:12.research was flawed. Much has happened in the month or so
:08:13. > :08:18.since I released the research paper. Much of it has been quite
:08:19. > :08:21.upsetting for me. I want to begin by saying is overly strong things about
:08:22. > :08:25.my experience in the last month. I would like to condemn the behaviour
:08:26. > :08:29.of BBC Scotland's Department of policy and corporate affairs. It is
:08:30. > :08:34.the president the dissemination of my research and is circulating an
:08:35. > :08:41.insulting and informed letter of my research, directly to my principle,
:08:42. > :08:43.bypassing the team, and circulating that to all e-mail complaints they
:08:44. > :08:49.had about their coverage of the referendum. I would like to condemn
:08:50. > :08:54.the violence and collusion of almost all of Scotland's mainstream media
:08:55. > :08:57.the violence and collusion of almost in disappearing my research, despite
:08:58. > :09:06.its online presence, which has been ignored. Can you lay out some of the
:09:07. > :09:09.findings Mister Mark well, it shows a crude quantitative imbalance
:09:10. > :09:14.between the number of statements reported which you could see as
:09:15. > :09:17.supportive of the yes campaign than those you could see as supportive of
:09:18. > :09:25.the no campaign. There is a high degree of subject of -- subjectivity
:09:26. > :09:30.in this. All of this research is subjective. That seemed to grab
:09:31. > :09:34.everybody's attention. Yes campaign people on the web immediately threw
:09:35. > :09:39.threw up into if you need evidence at last, 3-2 ratio! My feeling was
:09:40. > :09:44.that this was not very important cause a lot of it was down to just
:09:45. > :09:48.saying, well, let's see what the Liberal Democrat says, the
:09:49. > :09:52.conservative says. That led to an imbalance of a quantitative nature.
:09:53. > :09:57.This happened twice in the original report, that Willie Rennie was
:09:58. > :10:03.confused in the space of three lines with Ruth Davidson. In the draft...
:10:04. > :10:08.Does that change... Question I if you would forgive me, in the draft
:10:09. > :10:11.second report, one of those errors has been corrected and one of them
:10:12. > :10:17.has not, despite the fact that we pointed this out to the offer in
:10:18. > :10:22.January. Well, I would have thought most people would know the
:10:23. > :10:27.difference between Ruth Davidson and Willie Rennie. If we have pointed it
:10:28. > :10:34.out and it is very easy simply to go and check, there also was a... In
:10:35. > :10:39.what way does that affect the figures? If, as I have said, each
:10:40. > :10:48.and every example reported from Reporting Scotland has an error of
:10:49. > :10:51.fact, an error of inclusion, and error of omission or an error in
:10:52. > :10:57.terms of how the author describes who was in it or an error in the
:10:58. > :11:03.payoff to the report and that is in each and every example, it makes it
:11:04. > :11:08.difficult and it is of some concern to us that the numbers that make the
:11:09. > :11:12.in the report can be entirely correct. It is also fair to say, if
:11:13. > :11:17.the professor says, as he did this morning, that he did not just to
:11:18. > :11:23.samples of programmes, he surveyed the whole domain, yet in the space
:11:24. > :11:29.of a month, that domain changes from two hours every night to two hours
:11:30. > :11:34.every night both a low-dose bulletins in four programmes into
:11:35. > :11:38.channels over the weekend, the numbers of hours you survey the
:11:39. > :11:42.strangely seems to have dropped as a result of that and not gone up, it
:11:43. > :11:45.makes it quite difficult and concerning foreigners when we are
:11:46. > :11:48.looking at it. At the end of the day, it would be remiss of us when
:11:49. > :11:54.reports like this come out, not to respond to them. -- difficult and
:11:55. > :12:00.concerning for us. Our audience might have a perspective on it.
:12:01. > :12:02.There is no malice in that were attacking author on that. That is
:12:03. > :12:08.not something we would do. Despite what may have been said. At the end
:12:09. > :12:12.of the day, we wanted to deal substantially with the issues and
:12:13. > :12:16.the report and I think we have done that in as fair and is reasonable
:12:17. > :12:18.and as promptly as possible. That was the culture committee
:12:19. > :12:21.yesterday at Holyrood. Now to our live debate in
:12:22. > :12:27.yesterday at Holyrood. chamber today. First, let's pick up
:12:28. > :12:32.with another issue. Interesting intervention in the European debate
:12:33. > :12:36.from Ed Miliband today. He was saying his approach to the EU will
:12:37. > :12:40.be slightly different. He was promising a referendum but only if
:12:41. > :12:45.more powers were going to be taken from the UK to the EU, wasn't it?
:12:46. > :12:49.I'm glad you've summed that up because if you look at the coverage,
:12:50. > :12:54.the two papers briefed overnight, they took a completely different
:12:55. > :12:58.headlines. One seeing it promises and in a referendum, the other thing
:12:59. > :13:01.he does not. The issue here as perhaps the negation and getting to
:13:02. > :13:04.the bottom of what he is promising. I think Nick Robinson was saying
:13:05. > :13:10.earlier it took about the pages of his beach to get to what he was
:13:11. > :13:12.saying. -- took about seven pages. David Cameron describe it as a
:13:13. > :13:15.decision made by David Cameron describe it as a
:13:16. > :13:19.get the point here, it is saying that as you have outlined, it is
:13:20. > :13:22.only going to be a referendum if we were going to give more powers to
:13:23. > :13:27.Brussels. I think that has been welcomed by a lot in his party and
:13:28. > :13:59.also the CBI, is within supportive of staying in Europe.
:14:00. > :14:01.Particles have been recorded over 50 micrograms 30 the meter. If that
:14:02. > :14:04.average stays above 50 for the rest of today, it would be a breach of
:14:05. > :14:06.the average limit and we should only have seven beaches
:14:07. > :14:12.the average limit and we should only allowed in nature. While we are
:14:13. > :14:20.discussing this, poor El quality is -- poor air quality is affecting
:14:21. > :14:25.people's less. There is evidence it reduces people's life expectancy.
:14:26. > :14:33.That affect people particularly with respect to recondition and
:14:34. > :14:37.cardiovascular conditions. Pollutants can see into your car if
:14:38. > :14:42.you're sitting bumper-to-bumper making it more polluted than ever.
:14:43. > :14:48.Many of us are concerned about the issue. I would like to be known as
:14:49. > :14:51.the work that Friends Of The Earth are doing to raise awareness of the
:14:52. > :14:55.damage that are bloody and urban areas are doing to help push it up
:14:56. > :15:00.the political agenda. -- are doing in urban areas. The
:15:01. > :15:05.the political agenda. -- are doing urban air quality is caused by road
:15:06. > :15:08.traffic. Addressing this needs logical will, commitment and
:15:09. > :15:18.resources, not just financial but in terms of capacity within government
:15:19. > :15:23.to drive us forward. I am not suggesting that meeting standards as
:15:24. > :15:27.easy but it is difficult to find the target the government is meeting but
:15:28. > :15:34.the European commission has launched action against the UK for levels of
:15:35. > :15:41.nitrogen dioxide with Glasgow cited particularly as a city of concern.
:15:42. > :15:49.There a lack a convincing strategy for the UK. For their more, the
:15:50. > :15:56.tougher Scottish standards enabled by the 1995 environment act have
:15:57. > :16:05.never been met, missing targets on nitrogen and small particles. Of
:16:06. > :16:09.course what we need to see is greater investment and a focus on
:16:10. > :16:13.rules shift making walking and public transport more attractive to
:16:14. > :16:20.people. The government have a target of increasing journeys by 2020 and
:16:21. > :16:24.increasing equality is a part of making that attractive. They are
:16:25. > :16:31.ongoing concerns the travel budget is not at a level that would make
:16:32. > :16:35.this claim is achievable. Our bus network has huge potential to
:16:36. > :16:41.deliver more than this area. Passenger cars produced nearly 60%
:16:42. > :16:47.of all CO2 emissions across the UK and in a city centre on a journey by
:16:48. > :16:51.bus can result and a half the emissions per passenger compared to
:16:52. > :16:58.the card. Buses are seen as a problem but should be seen as part
:16:59. > :17:04.of the solution. They need to be reliable and pleasant so more needs
:17:05. > :17:08.to be done to avoid congestion. Measures such as the Green bus fund
:17:09. > :17:14.and bus investment fund are welcome but cuts to the bus operator's Grant
:17:15. > :17:25.makes progress more difficult as it is resulting in less routes. I would
:17:26. > :17:31.just highlight the change in focus of the grant to avoid bus operators
:17:32. > :17:34.having an incentive to burn fuel. It is something I hope she would
:17:35. > :17:39.welcome because it would contribute to better the quality and reduce
:17:40. > :17:46.opportunities for buses to set and burn fuel. The experiences this
:17:47. > :17:51.leads to less routes and higher fares and that works against the
:17:52. > :17:59.policy. Buses are still the pool of neighbours of trains in terms of
:18:00. > :18:09.public subsidy. The original target for reduced car use or journeys. We
:18:10. > :18:13.need to engage the public and that is a reason why friends of the
:18:14. > :18:21.Thistle welcome. Some of the options might not be popular. Tackling urban
:18:22. > :18:31.air pollution needs to be done in partnership with local authorities.
:18:32. > :18:37.There are currently 35 the quality action plans in Scotland but they
:18:38. > :18:40.are failing to deliver. I know the government are reviewing the quality
:18:41. > :18:44.action plan so I am pleased one of the Commons is expected to be
:18:45. > :18:52.increased monitoring of fine particles. We also need to consider
:18:53. > :18:55.whether we have the appropriate obligations on local authorities but
:18:56. > :19:01.we need to be honest on the difficulties local authorities face.
:19:02. > :19:10.While they have statutory obligations, local authorities are
:19:11. > :19:15.often working in environments not designed for modern travel or
:19:16. > :19:18.population numbers. They are working on short electoral cycles which can
:19:19. > :19:23.make some of the more unpopular option is difficult to deliver.
:19:24. > :19:26.Let's get some political reaction from Holyrood on our main story. The
:19:27. > :19:38.news that Scotland's public spending deficit has risen. Our political
:19:39. > :19:41.editor is standing by. Before we turn to your guests, what kind of
:19:42. > :19:55.reaction are you hearing in Holyrood? It is not simply a
:19:56. > :20:01.statistical exercise. It has always been a contest of interpretation.
:20:02. > :20:09.The contest of interpretation on the oil figures, you have the argument
:20:10. > :20:14.for those in favour of the union saying there would be a ?4.4
:20:15. > :20:21.for those in favour of the union drop within a single year. The
:20:22. > :20:25.response to that from independence advocates say the reduction is based
:20:26. > :20:31.on the fact greater investment is set off against tax thus the
:20:32. > :20:37.revenues decline, but the revenue will be ultimately productive. Two
:20:38. > :20:43.perspectives put forward. The choice right now is to go to the guests
:20:44. > :20:50.here and see what they make of it. Kenny Gibson from the SNP and Iain
:20:51. > :20:54.Gray from Labour. What is important is that over the last five years we
:20:55. > :21:00.have seen Scotland have a surplus compared to the rest of the UK and
:21:01. > :21:03.we have seen Scottish and, on average ?1600 a head more than the
:21:04. > :21:11.rest of the UK. Over the expenditure there is also higher
:21:12. > :21:16.than the UK and in the year we are talking about, revenue is also
:21:17. > :21:23.higher as a percentage than for the UK as a whole? Only a 1% difference
:21:24. > :21:27.between Scotland and the UK. What is important is what you mentioned
:21:28. > :21:35.earlier on. We saw a doubling over five years of investment in the
:21:36. > :21:38.North Sea. Revenues will increase in future years with an estimated
:21:39. > :21:42.increase over the next five years. The reason we want to bring in an
:21:43. > :21:48.oil stability fund is to ensure we have stability in terms of finances
:21:49. > :21:56.going forward. Ian Gray. You summed it up. What this demonstrates is how
:21:57. > :22:01.foolish it is to try to base an economy substantially on a single
:22:02. > :22:04.volatile commodity. It is true there is investment in the North Sea but
:22:05. > :22:09.that is because the remaining reserves, important as they are,
:22:10. > :22:15.cost far more to get out of the ground. Even if production does
:22:16. > :22:21.recover, revenues will not recover because profits will be lower. The
:22:22. > :22:29.decline in oil revenues is a long-term trend. Over five years the
:22:30. > :22:33.argument from the SNP in Scotland is doing better and over 30 years have
:22:34. > :22:39.contributed more per head than the rest of the UK. It is a fact we have
:22:40. > :22:46.also spent more. The truth is there's not much point looking back
:22:47. > :22:49.five or 30 or 50 years. The independence referendum in September
:22:50. > :22:53.is about looking forward than the fact of the matter is that Scotland
:22:54. > :22:57.was Independent today, the Chancellor would have ?4.5 billion
:22:58. > :23:03.less in the budget this year than last year. That is a whole schools
:23:04. > :23:10.budget and that would require serious cuts or massive tax
:23:11. > :23:14.increases. Completely ludicrous. There is a ?3 billion surplus from
:23:15. > :23:19.last year so that has to be taken into account. The stability fund is
:23:20. > :23:24.so that in years of prosperity we put money away so we can balance
:23:25. > :23:29.budgets. I know Labour are not good at balancing budgets but we could do
:23:30. > :23:39.a much better job. Faced with the 4.5 billion is cut you would not
:23:40. > :23:50.have a fund? Scotland is the second rest just part of the UK it said of
:23:51. > :23:55.London and the north-east. What allows us to stabilise these very
:23:56. > :24:00.quick shifts in oil revenues, and we are not new but a long-term trend,
:24:01. > :24:06.what allows us as being part of that big an economic union. That is why
:24:07. > :24:10.it is so important. What about the point that was then that wider union
:24:11. > :24:17.Scotland is the second richest after London? This is one of two oil funds
:24:18. > :24:22.which the Scottish government have said they will introduce but the
:24:23. > :24:29.problem is the there's no spare oil revenue. The White paper
:24:30. > :24:34.specifically says that stabilisation will be set up by increasing
:24:35. > :24:38.Scottish borrowing. That doesn't seem to me to be the most sensible
:24:39. > :24:44.way to manage volatility. You do not have the slack? Let's look at other
:24:45. > :24:50.countries. Norway have built up over ?5 billion. He was arguing against
:24:51. > :24:54.independence 30 years ago and we have seen 30 years of relative
:24:55. > :25:03.surplus. One year may not have been very good. Quite clearly we have a
:25:04. > :25:08.strong and robust economy and we are much less dependent on oil than many
:25:09. > :25:14.other countries and we believe we can afford this. I hear your
:25:15. > :25:20.arguments are that the longer term but as you say the figures this year
:25:21. > :25:25.are not good. Does this mean these are difficult figures this year to
:25:26. > :25:30.take it into a referendum? We are talking about a 1% difference and I
:25:31. > :25:34.know the Unionists jump on any financial bad news but to be honest
:25:35. > :25:43.we are talking about a very limited amount in terms of a GDP of 144
:25:44. > :25:48.billion. It is not vulnerable if you put measures in place to ensure you
:25:49. > :25:52.actually deal with this. Shocks can mean oil prices go up quite
:25:53. > :26:01.dramatically and that means a major windfall for Scotland. This has
:26:02. > :26:06.previously just gone to London. The Scottish government have been no
:26:07. > :26:11.better at predicting prices than oil revenue, but for the last year Alex
:26:12. > :26:13.Salmond has based the economic argument for independence on saying
:26:14. > :26:21.Scotland has a relative surplus, a lower deficit than the rest of the
:26:22. > :26:26.UK. These figures show that all the time they were telling us this it
:26:27. > :26:32.was the other way around. What about that point about the 1% gap? Even
:26:33. > :26:38.with this 1% reduction, the overall gap is only around 1%. As Alex
:26:39. > :26:48.Salmond was arguing, the stability and resilience of the onshore
:26:49. > :26:54.economy is good enough to be less? -- BR this? The way we manage this
:26:55. > :27:01.is as part of a larger UK economy which allows us to deal with drops
:27:02. > :27:07.of ?4.5 billion. A drop of 44% in a single year, the security of being
:27:08. > :27:13.part of that big an economy is what allows us to get the best from what
:27:14. > :27:18.is a very important resource. Why is the standard of living higher then
:27:19. > :27:22.Norway, Switzerland and the host of other countries than it is in the
:27:23. > :27:27.UK? Quite clearly we are short-changed by this resource going
:27:28. > :27:30.to the Treasury. It is much better to have an asset we can control for
:27:31. > :27:36.the long-term benefit of the Scottish people. We have been an
:27:37. > :27:41.surplus for 30 years of relative to the US and UK saw one year where we
:27:42. > :27:51.are talking about 1% of GDP, it is a pretty feeble argument. I think if
:27:52. > :27:57.you go back you will find that simply not true. Repeatedly we have
:27:58. > :28:01.told that Scotland has what Alex Salmond has called a relative
:28:02. > :28:06.surplus. A smaller deficit than the rest of the UK. That is not the case
:28:07. > :28:15.and they have been talking about oil for the last year. We are talking
:28:16. > :28:23.about 1% of GDP. The UK's deficit is 1.5 billion in debt! -- trillion.
:28:24. > :28:26.Let's head back to the chamber now and listen in on the debate about
:28:27. > :28:27.air quality. The environment minister Paul Wheelhouse is speaking
:28:28. > :28:40.now. We are hoping to have that by the
:28:41. > :28:44.end of the calendar year. We are also in the process of developing a
:28:45. > :28:48.national law emissions strategy which will draw together a wide
:28:49. > :28:52.range of policies being taken forward. It will highlight and
:28:53. > :28:57.strengthen the links between air-quality and other elements of
:28:58. > :29:02.the government's work. It will set out the contribution that reduced
:29:03. > :29:06.air pollution can lead to economic growth and improved quality-of-life.
:29:07. > :29:10.We also have national responsibilities, the UK along with
:29:11. > :29:17.other member states of the EU has to comply with air-quality limits.
:29:18. > :29:21.Failure to achieve this could lead to heavy fines and the European
:29:22. > :29:30.commission has the few weeks written to the UK government saying it
:29:31. > :29:34.intends to commence action. 15 zones and England plus the Glasgow urban
:29:35. > :29:39.area. We are also working to prepare a response saying how we intend to
:29:40. > :29:43.demonstrate full compliance as soon as possible. They are still many air
:29:44. > :29:51.pollution issues to address. Work must continue to ensure it is not
:29:52. > :29:53.just maintained but improved upon. We hope
:29:54. > :30:02.just maintained but improved upon. greener Scotland for us all. Thank
:30:03. > :30:07.you. I welcome the opportunity to contribute to today's debate on air
:30:08. > :30:12.quality. I believe it is useful that Labour is using its debating time to
:30:13. > :30:16.highlight this important issue. The Scottish Government's failures were
:30:17. > :30:22.set out specific EU air quality standards. We recognise that overall
:30:23. > :30:25.there have significant reductions in air pollution since the 1990
:30:26. > :30:30.baseline, it is a matter of real concern to all of us in this chamber
:30:31. > :30:33.that unacceptable high levels of air-pollution, especially from
:30:34. > :30:38.nitrogen dioxide, which causes increased ground level also and
:30:39. > :30:43.particulate matter, have been shown in 2013 in some of the busiest
:30:44. > :30:54.shopping streets in Scotland in 2013 in some of the busiest
:30:55. > :31:02.Hope Street, buyers road -- Byres Road and some Street in Edinburgh.
:31:03. > :31:07.The brick -- the break from regulations set out in the 1990s.
:31:08. > :31:11.All of us know that nitrogen oxides in our environment also cause acid
:31:12. > :31:16.rain. This damages plant and animal life in Forest, lakes and rivers as
:31:17. > :31:23.well as harming building and historical sites. High levels of
:31:24. > :31:27.nitrogen oxides can also threatens biodiversity through the excessive
:31:28. > :31:31.growth of plants and trees. Planting more trees in urban areas can help
:31:32. > :31:35.to mitigate levels of some air pollutants and we are very
:31:36. > :31:39.supportive of that. As the Labour motion makes clear today, the
:31:40. > :31:43.potential impact on human health of poor are quality can be severe. It
:31:44. > :31:47.has been suggested that over 5000 deaths in Scotland each year have
:31:48. > :31:54.air-pollution as a contribute in fact and this must be major concern.
:31:55. > :31:59.1500 deaths. In high concentrations, nitrogen dioxide and particulates
:32:00. > :32:03.can cause inflammation of the airwaves and affect lung capacity.
:32:04. > :32:10.Some studies suggest long-term exposure may be associated with
:32:11. > :32:16.associated risks -- increased bronchitis. As a sufferer myself, I
:32:17. > :32:21.am very conscious of the effect. For many Scots, it can be much harder to
:32:22. > :32:25.breathe in congested city streets. The presence and concentration of
:32:26. > :32:33.religion in our air is very affected by the climatic conditions. I would
:32:34. > :32:35.commend the efforts of the Met office in Scotland, working with
:32:36. > :32:40.partnerships and local doctors, to support people self managing some
:32:41. > :32:45.conditions known to be impacted by weather conditions. The healthy
:32:46. > :32:50.outlook service specifically helps those with COPD as well as having an
:32:51. > :32:55.impact on those who suffer from rest the jury promises like asthma and
:32:56. > :32:59.COPD. Recent research published in the British Medical Journal
:33:00. > :33:02.suggested that exposure to find practical, particles in the air
:33:03. > :33:05.increased the risk of heart attacks...
:33:06. > :33:08.Now, the UK does not have politicians representing ex-pats
:33:09. > :33:11.abroad. But France does. I'm delighted to say I'm joined in the
:33:12. > :33:14.studio by Axelle LeMaire, the First French member of the National
:33:15. > :33:19.Assembly to represent more than 140,000 French citizens in northern
:33:20. > :33:28.Europe. Axelle, thank you very much for coming in to the studio... Thank
:33:29. > :33:34.you. Can you explain your post to us? How does that work? To be an MP
:33:35. > :33:40.representing constituents abroad? I know that it looks odd. I live in
:33:41. > :33:43.London and I work in Paris. That is where I sit in the National
:33:44. > :33:47.Assembly. So I spent three days a week in Paris and the list of the
:33:48. > :33:53.time in my constituency, that is ten countries, including the UK,
:33:54. > :33:59.including Scotland. Either present they probably 500,000 French people
:34:00. > :34:05.who live in the north of Europe, try to meet with them or online, and
:34:06. > :34:11.address their problems. Also, I represent their views and their
:34:12. > :34:13.international approach in the National Assembly. And you are going
:34:14. > :34:18.round Scotland today National Assembly. And you are going
:34:19. > :34:22.the French citizens? Exactly. I was in Edinburgh yesterday, Glasgow
:34:23. > :34:27.today, it Aberdeen tomorrow. As I usually do, I am holding surgeries
:34:28. > :34:30.and organising public meetings. Would you recommend a system for the
:34:31. > :34:35.Westminster Parliament, do you think, to have MPs representing
:34:36. > :34:38.British expats who live abroad? It is very funny because I received
:34:39. > :34:43.e-mails from British people who live in Spain and Australia or South
:34:44. > :34:46.Africa and they say, could you please write to the Prime Minister
:34:47. > :34:52.and asking to have the same system? ! I think it is a new form of
:34:53. > :34:57.political representation. It also shows a new reality, which is the
:34:58. > :35:00.fact that millions of citizens live outside of their country but they
:35:01. > :35:07.still have the language, they still have the culture, they still the
:35:08. > :35:11.country. It is a way to keep their citizenship alive. You are here in
:35:12. > :35:14.Scotland as an exciting time politically, with the independence
:35:15. > :35:19.referendum. Of course, there is the old alliance between France and
:35:20. > :35:23.Scotland, long historical connections. What is the feeling in
:35:24. > :35:32.front of its Scottish independence? The way we see it is probably...
:35:33. > :35:35.Scene from the larger debate on the referendum on possible EU exit that
:35:36. > :35:39.has been announced by the Prime Minister. I had to come here to
:35:40. > :35:43.realise that it is more complex than that, that the timings are
:35:44. > :35:46.different, that the expectations, realities are different. So it is
:35:47. > :35:50.actually two completely different issues. But we don't get much
:35:51. > :35:54.information about what is going on in Scotland at the moment. It is
:35:55. > :35:58.interesting to hear the kind of rolled together. We heard recently
:35:59. > :36:02.from the President of the European commission, Jose Manuel Barroso,
:36:03. > :36:05.that Spain may not want an independent Scotland to join the EU
:36:06. > :36:11.because of course it has problems with its own secessionist movements.
:36:12. > :36:15.Of course perhaps France might not want an independent Scotland because
:36:16. > :36:20.it might encourage perhaps Corsican nationalism? Do you think France
:36:21. > :36:24.with one and independent Scotland to join the European Union? More than
:36:25. > :36:28.anything else, I think it is important to remain neutral in this
:36:29. > :36:32.event. It is up to the Scottish people and the people who live in
:36:33. > :36:37.Scotland to express their views. There is a very heated but
:36:38. > :36:42.Democratic debate going on and I don't think it was up to Jose Manuel
:36:43. > :36:46.Barroso to say what he thinks about it. We all know he is the current
:36:47. > :36:51.president of the European commission but his mandate is coming to a term
:36:52. > :36:56.soon, with the new commission that will be nominated after the European
:36:57. > :37:01.elections taking place at the end of May. So he has a personal agenda. He
:37:02. > :37:08.apparently wants to be the next general secretary of NATO. In order
:37:09. > :37:12.to become that, he needs the support of the United Kingdom and David
:37:13. > :37:16.Cameron. So clearly, he did that for reasons that probably are not as
:37:17. > :37:21.legitimate as they appear. So I would not like to do the same. I
:37:22. > :37:26.think it is important for foreign countries or foreign politicians to
:37:27. > :37:31.remain neutral and respect the will of the Scottish people. So that was
:37:32. > :37:34.quite a big geopolitical western. Let's look at another issue in the
:37:35. > :37:40.referendum debate, the one about childcare. The SNP are promising
:37:41. > :37:44.increased childcare if there is an independent Scotland. You live in
:37:45. > :37:47.the UK and work in France, can you compare and contrast the offer of
:37:48. > :37:52.child care that is available in France and the United Kingdom? Yes,
:37:53. > :37:56.I do not know about the differences between Scotland and the rest of the
:37:57. > :38:00.UK but what I can talk about is the French system and certainly we are
:38:01. > :38:06.trying to do a lot at the moment to create new places in nurseries so
:38:07. > :38:11.that women can get back to work after they have a child. It is very
:38:12. > :38:21.problematic if it is more costly to stay at home... Because you cannot
:38:22. > :38:23.afford childcare. By pursuing equality but also for economic
:38:24. > :38:29.reasons, to put women back into the job market, to encourage them to
:38:30. > :38:34.consume, to buy goods, to increase the GDP, I think it is a very
:38:35. > :38:38.reasonable measure the GDP, I think it is a very
:38:39. > :38:44.childcare offered. I must say, as the London resident, I think at the
:38:45. > :38:48.moment it is not developed enough. OK. We will have to leave it there.
:38:49. > :38:50.Thank you very much for speaking to us and for coming in.
:38:51. > :38:54.To Prime Minister's Questions now. And it was all change, as the PM is
:38:55. > :38:57.away on official business in Israel. Instead, the Deputy PM Nick Clegg
:38:58. > :39:00.faced Labour's deputy leader Harriet Harman across the despatch box. She
:39:01. > :39:04.claimed the Coalition parties are bound together not by the national
:39:05. > :39:07.interest but by a collective fear of the electorate. The issue of the
:39:08. > :39:16.radioactive leak at Dounreay also came up. At their spring conference
:39:17. > :39:20.last week, Lib Dem ministers were falling over themselves to denounce
:39:21. > :39:25.government policies and even their own departmental colleagues. They
:39:26. > :39:32.describe them variously as unfair, absurd and heated. Yet they keep
:39:33. > :39:36.supporting them. Take the bedroom tax. His own party president says
:39:37. > :39:41.the bedroom tax is wrong, unnecessary and causing misery. But
:39:42. > :39:46.they voted for it. Now they say they want to abolish it. Are they for the
:39:47. > :39:53.bedroom tax or against it was to mark which is it? Mister Speaker,
:39:54. > :39:58.there are 1.7 million people on the housing waiting list in the country
:39:59. > :40:04.-- in our country and 1.5 million spare bedrooms. That is a problem we
:40:05. > :40:09.inherited, like so many problems, from them. On the side of the House,
:40:10. > :40:12.we are trying to sort out the mess that they created.
:40:13. > :40:15.CHEERING If they are incapable of taking any
:40:16. > :40:19.responsibility or expressing any apologies for the mess they have
:40:20. > :40:24.created, why should we take any other questions seriously at all.
:40:25. > :40:29.This week, surely it is also ready to extend condolences to the family
:40:30. > :40:33.and friends of Bob Crow. The Secretary of State for defence has
:40:34. > :40:39.issued a ministerial correction, where he correct faulted that there
:40:40. > :40:45.was no measurable change in the radiation discharged at HMS Vulcan.
:40:46. > :40:49.Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that the Ministry of Defence should
:40:50. > :40:56.be fully answerable to the Scottish environment protection agency? I
:40:57. > :40:59.would also like to join express my condolences to the family of friends
:41:00. > :41:03.of Bob Crow. Whether you agreed with them or not, he always worked
:41:04. > :41:08.tirelessly for what he believed in and the people he represented. On
:41:09. > :41:14.the issue of the radioactivity, I think the Ministry of Defence had
:41:15. > :41:17.has thought to be as open as possible. It is very important that
:41:18. > :41:21.all those work together in order to ensure that the nuclear deterrent is
:41:22. > :41:23.managed and maintained safely and that is exactly what everyone is
:41:24. > :41:30.seeking to do. CHEERING
:41:31. > :41:34.Mister Speaker, we now know that the Leader of the Opposition is opposed
:41:35. > :41:38.to an EU referendum and will not deliver one. The Deputy Prime
:41:39. > :41:45.Minister is opposed to an EU referendum and will not deliver one.
:41:46. > :41:49.The leader of the UKIP party wants a referendum but cannot deliver one.
:41:50. > :41:51.The Prime Minister wants an EU referendum and will deliver it by
:41:52. > :41:58.2017. CHEERING
:41:59. > :42:02.Would be standing Prime Minister -- would they stand in Prime Minister
:42:03. > :42:10.tell the House which of the party leaders trust the British public and
:42:11. > :42:13.is a real democrat? As ever a pleasure. I'm glad to see he has
:42:14. > :42:19.fans of the other side of the House now as well. And he mentions the
:42:20. > :42:22.pro-minister, let me quote what he said at the dispatch box when we go
:42:23. > :42:27.to deliver on this issue. He said, my clear it is when this Parliament
:42:28. > :42:30.proposes to give up power is that there should be a referendum. That
:42:31. > :42:34.is the guarantee we have written into law. It is important that we
:42:35. > :42:38.establish your loss for the use of referendums. Rule one, line one is
:42:39. > :42:41.that if you're giving up hours belonging to the British people, you
:42:42. > :42:45.should ask them first. I entirely agree. That is the government's
:42:46. > :42:48.position and that remains my view. Let's stay down at Wetsminster now
:42:49. > :42:53.and speak to our correspondent David Porter, who's standing by as ever on
:42:54. > :42:59.College Green. David, over to you. Thank you very much, Andrew. Prime
:43:00. > :43:07.Minister's questioned and without the pro-minister today because he is
:43:08. > :43:12.on an official visit to Israel and Ed Miliband never does Question Time
:43:13. > :43:18.when the prime ministers away. Instead, he used the time to make a
:43:19. > :43:21.speech on his party's attitude to the EU and a possible referendum and
:43:22. > :43:25.to discuss that, I am pleased to be joined by three parliamentarians
:43:26. > :43:30.with Scottish connections, Ian Murray for Labour, Lord Jeremy
:43:31. > :43:36.Purvis for the Liberal Democrats and Angus MacNeil for the SMB. Ian
:43:37. > :43:42.Marlee, it was a leader essentially try to broker a compromise on the
:43:43. > :43:45.EU, saying there may be a referendum but only in the next parliament if
:43:46. > :43:51.there was a significant transfer of powers. -- for the SNP. Ian, it was
:43:52. > :43:55.your leader is essentially trying to broker a compromise. Essentially,
:43:56. > :44:00.the Conservatives are all over the place on Europe. They're promising a
:44:01. > :44:03.referendum in 2017 and say that we will have it if we do not have a
:44:04. > :44:08.significant repatriation of powers. They have not told us what powers
:44:09. > :44:10.they want to repatriate or they are making progress. It is difficult to
:44:11. > :44:13.do that when they are standing outside the room. What Ed Miliband
:44:14. > :44:17.made out was that the EU should be at the heart of Europe and fighting
:44:18. > :44:20.the arguments within Europe and saying that it should be
:44:21. > :44:24.contributing to jobs and growth. If there is any fundamental transfer of
:44:25. > :44:27.powers as part of that, Labour are committing to a referendum if that
:44:28. > :44:30.is the case. That seems to be the sensible approach for the public,
:44:31. > :44:35.the country and businesses, who are telling of that we know what
:44:36. > :44:38.referendums do in terms of a Scottish context, uncertain for
:44:39. > :44:42.business. There would be ?3000 benefit to every person in this
:44:43. > :44:46.country from being an EU. We should listen to that and stop messing
:44:47. > :44:49.around with the constitution and get on with and growth. Would be wrong
:44:50. > :44:54.to give the impression that your party is that one on this? I did
:44:55. > :44:59.like the Conservatives, you have people with a different range of
:45:00. > :45:04.views. We are a broad party but it has laid out a way forward to seeing
:45:05. > :45:08.that we will have a referendum if there is repatriate powers. Until
:45:09. > :45:11.then, we wanted to be in the room at Angela Merkel and the French
:45:12. > :45:14.president and the major players in Europe since that we want to reform
:45:15. > :45:19.Europe to make sure it is completing the single market, creating jobs and
:45:20. > :45:32.wealth for Europe. If it does not, and Powers transfer, we will have a
:45:33. > :45:39.referendum. They are gradually clarifying the confusion and that is
:45:40. > :45:44.broadly welcome. Somebody said it was not a broad tent but a marquee
:45:45. > :45:49.with open sides and the way it was presented and briefed shows the
:45:50. > :45:54.clarity but I do not know why Labour has abstained when this was
:45:55. > :45:58.legislated for. It now seems as if the Conservatives are wanting to
:45:59. > :46:03.move away from it and Labour are finally realising that position they
:46:04. > :46:08.are moving towards has a fundamental degree of sense about it. It seems I
:46:09. > :46:15.should not be churlish and welcome Labour on board. It is not NSU if
:46:16. > :46:19.Europe are going to be the big issue we think it should be, is it not the
:46:20. > :46:28.right to say we should let the people decide on its? It is a huge
:46:29. > :46:33.issue and is fundamental. We are fighting very hard to maintain that
:46:34. > :46:37.seat in the European parliament for Scotland for the Liberal Democrats
:46:38. > :46:40.because we are now unashamedly the party that is aligned with positive
:46:41. > :46:48.benefits for Scotland in the EU and for Scotland and the British
:46:49. > :46:51.Parliament. We are the party both for Britain and for Europe and
:46:52. > :46:56.because it is so significant that is probably the first time in a long
:46:57. > :47:02.time that this will be fought on European issues. You want to full
:47:03. > :47:09.journal negotiations with Europe for an independent Scotland? It was
:47:10. > :47:12.amazing to see the great agreement and the finest relationships ever
:47:13. > :47:20.between the UK and Ireland with common visas and green energy
:47:21. > :47:29.proposals and a multitude of things. It has been referred to as the Vicky
:47:30. > :47:32.pollard policy. Yes but no. Those of us with a longer Westminster
:47:33. > :47:42.pedigree can remember the times the Liberal Democrats were demanding and
:47:43. > :47:48.in a referendum. -- in-out referendum. It is UKIP that is
:47:49. > :47:53.pushing them and the policy with Labour is we will give you one when
:47:54. > :47:58.we do not need one. Scotland should be independent and this will be
:47:59. > :48:03.academic and we will be at the top table fighting Scotland's corner.
:48:04. > :48:16.The point made about the two unions and the very different unions. One
:48:17. > :48:20.is a governmental union. Assuming Scotland was to gain independence
:48:21. > :48:24.and gain entry into the EU, none of which are certain, would not be a
:48:25. > :48:29.logic once you had negotiated the deal for an independent Scotland get
:48:30. > :48:32.into the EU to say to the people of Scotland, we will put that to a
:48:33. > :48:38.referendum to see if you agree with what we have negotiated for you?
:48:39. > :48:43.There's a logic but it is not the at the moment. The point you're driving
:48:44. > :48:47.at is that this situation should arise it is a matter for the people
:48:48. > :48:51.of Scotland. The people of Scotland could vote to stay in the EU and get
:48:52. > :48:56.taken out of Europe against their will. The only way the people of
:48:57. > :49:00.Scotland can have the boys respected as to become independent. -- the
:49:01. > :49:07.voice. Is this as to become independent. -- the
:49:08. > :49:12.policy now because that is significant? I am agreeing with the
:49:13. > :49:17.logic of the question but it is not policy. In 2017 we could be taken
:49:18. > :49:25.out of Europe if we stay in the United Kingdom against their will.
:49:26. > :49:38.Put Scotland's destiny in Scotland's hands. The destiny is
:49:39. > :49:44.kept with independence. It is quite clear if you follow the logic that
:49:45. > :49:53.the only way to stay in the UK is to vote no and vote Labour. I was
:49:54. > :49:56.agreeing with you on logic. The logical position is they are quite
:49:57. > :50:03.happy to have the Tories, and driven by UKIP and take Scotland bout of
:50:04. > :50:09.Europe because we would be the tail of the vote. This is what turns
:50:10. > :50:14.people off about politics, when you have a grown-up discussion and you
:50:15. > :50:19.make a logical point and then somebody runs away and says that the
:50:20. > :50:23.policy. People at home should know that politicians can discuss in a
:50:24. > :50:27.grown-up manner without confusing logic and policy. It is a shame that
:50:28. > :50:37.people do that than I am disappointed. I am taking the logic
:50:38. > :50:40.to its natural conclusion. Shame. We will have a referendum on whether we
:50:41. > :50:50.shall continue this discussion later on. Thank you very much. Did we get
:50:51. > :50:59.a policy change or not, I will let you decide that one! Back to you.
:51:00. > :51:02.I think the debate continues. Let's speak to our commentator Lyndsey
:51:03. > :51:08.Macintosh for a final time this afternoon. Let's pick up on a big
:51:09. > :51:11.story through the rest of the week, more powers for the Scottish
:51:12. > :51:16.parliament with offers from Labour and the Liberal Democrats. Gordon
:51:17. > :51:22.Brown speaking about a partnership of nations. The offer from Labour
:51:23. > :51:28.was actually from Gordon Brown talking under the Labour banner but
:51:29. > :51:31.under half of himself and he laid his proposal for more powers which
:51:32. > :51:36.he has committed to the devolution commission. We know they are interim
:51:37. > :51:42.report called for school devolution of income tax to Holyrood which was
:51:43. > :51:47.hugely controversial within the Labour Party and split it radically.
:51:48. > :51:49.What Gordon Brown has said is that we should increase the power of
:51:50. > :51:54.income tax but not school devolution. My sense is that maybe
:51:55. > :52:01.what he is proposing is something that will be picked up by the
:52:02. > :52:07.devolution commission. That is coming up at the Spring conference.
:52:08. > :52:09.We are into conference season and the Conservatives are having the
:52:10. > :52:16.Conservatives are having layers in Edinburgh this weekend. They are not
:52:17. > :52:21.reporting back and tell me, what do you think she will be telling the
:52:22. > :52:28.party faithful? She will be in pretty good fettle on Sunday. The
:52:29. > :52:32.independence debate has been good for the Tories, galvanising them,
:52:33. > :52:39.and they pretty much know where they stand on the union and are united by
:52:40. > :52:43.and they pretty much know where they it. It adds impetus to the party
:52:44. > :52:51.which in Scotland in recent years has been somewhat lacking. This will
:52:52. > :53:00.really boy up the party faithful. -- buoy. Some conservatives are opposed
:53:01. > :53:03.to more powers coming to Scotland. The Strathclyde commission will be
:53:04. > :53:08.fascinating when it comes back particularly when we have had them
:53:09. > :53:14.seeing it as a line in the sand with no more powers, and in more recent
:53:15. > :53:19.speeches Ruth Davidson has edged towards not endorsing a federal
:53:20. > :53:27.system but seeing it as an interesting prospect. You were
:53:28. > :53:31.saying that perhaps this debate has galvanised the Conservative party in
:53:32. > :53:37.Scotland. Do you think they might reap the fruits of that in the
:53:38. > :53:40.future, could the vote glop? The signs are good for them at the
:53:41. > :53:48.moment in that if you look at the council by-elections, they have
:53:49. > :53:53.increased the votes she so they are certainly making games. From what I
:53:54. > :54:02.understand, they are getting a lot of donations as well. We will have
:54:03. > :54:06.to leave it there. You can follow all that is happening
:54:07. > :54:12.at the Conservative conference on the BBC, online and on radio and we
:54:13. > :54:15.will have Ruth Davidson's speech live here on BBC Two on Sunday
:54:16. > :54:18.afternoon. That's all we have time for this afternoon. We're back at
:54:19. > :54:22.the same time next week, half past two here on BBC Two. Thanks
:54:23. > :54:27.the same time next week, half past company this afternoon. Bye for now.