:00:28. > :00:31.how to plan for a successful Scotland. The government defends her
:00:31. > :00:36.vision -- unveils vision for national development. Another set of
:00:36. > :00:42.positive employment readers - the Scottish and UK governments both
:00:42. > :00:47.claim credit. Here at Westminster, academics mull over what life could
:00:47. > :00:52.be like in an independent Scotland. Unemployment in Scotland has fallen
:00:52. > :00:56.for the seventh time in a row. The number of people out of work was
:00:56. > :01:03.down by 6000 between debris and April. Across the UK unemployment
:01:03. > :01:08.also fell. I am joined by Paul Gilbride, the medical commentator of
:01:08. > :01:17.the Scottish Daily Express. Hello and welcome. -- the political
:01:17. > :01:20.commentator. A positive development on the jobs front. Yes. Both
:01:20. > :01:25.governments are claiming credit when there is good news. There is a lot
:01:25. > :01:34.of government money going into tackling unemployment, particularly
:01:34. > :01:44.youth unemployment. We have a dedicated minister for that in this
:01:44. > :01:45.
:01:45. > :01:51.part of the UK. One could argue that it is down to the UK government that
:01:51. > :01:57.Scotland is performing so well. governments are arguing that it is
:01:57. > :02:02.there a success story. unemployment figures for a while
:02:02. > :02:09.were not so good. You could not get any government minister to comment
:02:09. > :02:16.on it. Yes, it is a good news story and it is good for the Scottish
:02:16. > :02:24.economy. The SNP can take some credit for it. But whether that is
:02:24. > :02:34.an advert for a so-called plan B stimulus spending, that remains to
:02:34. > :02:41.be seen. What do the figures tell us about the economy as a whole? Can we
:02:41. > :02:47.see some overall picture emerging? There is a report out today which
:02:47. > :02:57.says the financial sector is suffering. Manufacturing is not
:02:57. > :02:57.
:02:57. > :03:06.performing too well either. Overall, it is a difficult one to call. I
:03:06. > :03:10.think we have got to be very cautious about this. The recession
:03:10. > :03:14.is going to last another six or seven years from what the experts
:03:14. > :03:21.say. There could be peaks and troughs until we get back to an
:03:21. > :03:25.established rhythm. Thank you for now.
:03:25. > :03:32.The Labour leader Ed Miliband has claimed that real wages have fallen
:03:32. > :03:34.by an average of �1300 since the coalition came to power. He was
:03:35. > :03:38.speaking at my ministers questions were David Cameron accused him of
:03:38. > :03:44.talking down the economy. The exchange began with questions about
:03:44. > :03:51.Syria. I quoted him about the supply of
:03:51. > :03:55.lethal equipment. He gave an assurance to this House that there
:03:55. > :04:03.would be safeguards. My question was what would those safeguards be? I
:04:03. > :04:09.did not hear an answer. Will he confirm that if he takes a decision
:04:09. > :04:11.to arm the Syrian rebels, there will be a boat in this place, in
:04:11. > :04:18.government time, with the recall of Parliament from recess if
:04:18. > :04:22.necessary? With the issue of safeguards, we are not supplying the
:04:22. > :04:27.opposition with weapons, we are supplying them with technical
:04:27. > :04:34.assistance and non-lethal equipment. We made no decision to supply the
:04:34. > :04:37.opposition with weapons. That is the answer. On the issue, as the Foreign
:04:37. > :04:43.Secretary and I have made clear, I have always believed in allowing the
:04:43. > :04:47.House of Commons a on all of these issues. I ink that was right when it
:04:47. > :04:51.came to Iraq, it was right when we came to the decision to help the
:04:51. > :04:54.opposition in Libya, and it would be right in the future as well for that
:04:54. > :05:01.to happen. I must stress we have made no decision to arm the rebels
:05:01. > :05:05.and Syria. He is into his fourth year as Prime Minister and his
:05:05. > :05:10.excuse for falling standards is do not blame me, I am only the Prime
:05:10. > :05:13.Minister. It is not good enough. He does not understand that because of
:05:13. > :05:17.his failure to get growth in the economy, wages are falling for
:05:17. > :05:23.ordinary people. He wants to tell them they are better off out they
:05:24. > :05:30.are worse off. Can he confirm that today's figures show that after
:05:30. > :05:39.inflation, since he came to power, wages have fallen on average by over
:05:39. > :05:42.�1300 a year. Under this government, we have seen over one points to 5
:05:42. > :05:45.million private sector jobs and growth in the private sector
:05:45. > :05:55.employment rate. That is what is happening. Living standards are
:05:55. > :06:01.under pressure and that is why we are freezing council tax.
:06:01. > :06:05.As we approach the 25th anniversary of the paper Alpha disaster, will
:06:05. > :06:09.the Prime Minister join with me in recognising the challenges we face
:06:09. > :06:19.in bringing gas and oil from the North Sea, the skills of those who
:06:19. > :06:23.do it and the paramount importance of safety? I will join my honourable
:06:23. > :06:28.friend in praising the North Sea gas and oil industry. What is
:06:28. > :06:35.encouraging is that this year we are seeing growth in production as the
:06:35. > :06:38.number of new fields and projects come on stream. Safety and security
:06:38. > :06:44.are absolutely paramount at all times.
:06:44. > :06:54.Let us stay at Westminster or we can speak to our correspondence David
:06:54. > :06:59.
:06:59. > :07:08.Porter. It was a busy agenda. -- our correspondent. It was a Prime
:07:08. > :07:15.Minister's Questions of two parts. There were concerns over Syria and
:07:15. > :07:19.what the government is doing. Secondly, there was the domestic
:07:20. > :07:28.issue of the economy. Both sides obviously welcomed the fall in
:07:28. > :07:32.unemployment. The unemployment rate in Scotland is seven points 1%, and
:07:32. > :07:40.it is significantly below that in the rest of the United Kingdom. More
:07:40. > :07:50.people are finding jobs. Ed Miliband wanted to focus on what he said, the
:07:50. > :07:52.
:07:52. > :07:56.drop in what he said were real wages for real people. What appears to be
:07:56. > :08:00.happening in the recession that we have had and the recovery we are now
:08:00. > :08:04.experiencing, rather than unemployment shooting up, people
:08:04. > :08:12.have taken a reduction in wages to keep their jobs. That has not
:08:12. > :08:16.happened previously. All sides will welcome the fall in unemployment,
:08:16. > :08:23.but the flip side of this in that there are more people in work, even
:08:23. > :08:26.if the real wages have declined. There is an interesting conference
:08:26. > :08:33.going on about Scotland and independence. Tell us more about
:08:33. > :08:43.that. Scotland might have to make hard choices if there is
:08:43. > :08:44.
:08:44. > :08:46.independence? This has in organised by a research group. They have a
:08:46. > :08:51.number of academics, some from Scotland and some from England, and
:08:51. > :08:54.they are looking about what could happen in an independent Scotland.
:08:54. > :08:58.The Institute for Fiscal Studies is one group giving evidence and they
:08:58. > :09:07.are renowned as economic gurus for looking ahead as to what will
:09:07. > :09:15.happen. That is why there are opinions carry so much weight. --
:09:15. > :09:21.their opinions. If Scotland was to become independent, one commentator
:09:21. > :09:29.said you would not notice much change, but things might alter
:09:29. > :09:39.significantly. The UK government will have to change its fiscal
:09:39. > :09:40.
:09:40. > :09:45.attitude. One person who will be speaking at this conference is a
:09:45. > :09:51.professor from Strathclyde University. He will talk about the
:09:51. > :09:58.decision to extend the franchise to 16-year-olds and 17-year-olds in the
:09:58. > :10:03.referendum in September 2014. A lot of academics who look at these
:10:03. > :10:09.figures and how things develop will be interested to see the role they
:10:09. > :10:14.think that young people will play. Thank you.
:10:14. > :10:21.My guest for the afternoon is Paul Gilbride. Let us pick up on a couple
:10:21. > :10:27.of those points. The representative from the Institute of fiscal studies
:10:27. > :10:34.said higher taxes and lower spending could be an option compared to the
:10:34. > :10:39.rest of the UK? It is an interesting analysis. It feeds into suspicions
:10:39. > :10:43.that are already in existence. I taxation is one of the great fears
:10:43. > :10:53.of an independent Scotland, simply cause of the idea of Scottish
:10:53. > :10:58.
:10:58. > :11:03.values, a bigger welfare state, cradle to grave welfare care. It is
:11:03. > :11:05.interesting that the Institute for Fiscal Studies, that is one choice
:11:05. > :11:15.they say we would face in an independent Scotland, because
:11:15. > :11:20.spending cuts. That is not a big seller for people to vote yes.
:11:20. > :11:27.the Conservative conference this weekend, one representative was
:11:27. > :11:32.promising more powers for Scotland. She said there could be law taxes in
:11:32. > :11:42.Scotland, not three independence, but if there was more devolution.
:11:42. > :11:42.
:11:42. > :11:48.Perhaps that would be the case. It depends on what way you talk. The
:11:48. > :11:55.direct link between public spending and taxation, at some point it has
:11:55. > :11:59.to be made that the average Scottish border and if extended devolution
:11:59. > :12:07.can make that link, then people will make the choice. Do they want to
:12:07. > :12:13.keep more money, or put more into public services? You mentioned
:12:13. > :12:19.welfare. We have that report yesterday from a working group on
:12:19. > :12:24.welfare. Can you emphasise some of the points that were picked out in
:12:24. > :12:30.that report? They said there would be continuity in an independent
:12:30. > :12:34.Scotland and services would be shared for a period. Yes. The
:12:34. > :12:41.bureaucratic monolith that is the welfare system, pensions and
:12:41. > :12:50.benefits, to just break a link overnight, it also said there was a
:12:50. > :12:57.serious risk of pensions and benefits being broken. After
:12:57. > :13:07.independence, we will have a period lasting up to 2020 or beyond, in
:13:07. > :13:07.
:13:07. > :13:12.which an independent Scotland must rely on the UK welfare system. There
:13:12. > :13:19.are a lot of processing offices based in Scotland. We would still be
:13:19. > :13:26.tied in to the UK welfare system which is not what a lot of people
:13:26. > :13:32.who would vote yes would have expected. Thank you for now. Let us
:13:32. > :13:42.get some reaction at Holyrood to political events today. I am joined
:13:42. > :13:43.
:13:43. > :13:53.in the garden lobby by a range of guests. Gentlemen, good afternoon.
:13:53. > :13:57.
:13:57. > :14:07.And, very positive employment figures today. -- Jamie Hepburn. Who
:14:07. > :14:08.
:14:09. > :14:17.is taking credit? Employment is up by 47,000 over a three-month period.
:14:17. > :14:24.That is in contrast to the rest of the UK. The figures are stagnating.
:14:24. > :14:27.It is clear that Scotland must take a fair degree of credit for this. We
:14:27. > :14:33.have a dedicated Minister for youth employment across the United
:14:33. > :14:39.Kingdom. We have seen youth unemployment come down by 10%. Some
:14:39. > :14:49.people would say that is a consequence, but I think it is a
:14:49. > :14:51.
:14:51. > :14:55.concerted effort from the Minister. Fewer people more people are in
:14:55. > :15:02.temporary jobs with no guarantee of future incomes? When it comes to
:15:02. > :15:05.youth unemployment, the youth jobs fund is being criticised. They can
:15:05. > :15:13.criticise it all they want, but the facts are clear. Youth unemployment
:15:13. > :15:20.is down. These are official figures. If you compare it to what is
:15:20. > :15:28.happening across the rest of the UK, you should struggle to see a bad
:15:28. > :15:36.news story. It should be welcomed. Michael McMahon, how can you turn
:15:36. > :15:42.this into a bad story? We are not turning it into a bad news story. Of
:15:42. > :15:46.course we welcome the lower in unemployment. But you are deluding
:15:46. > :15:51.if you think just by looking at this, it does, official fishings
:15:51. > :15:56.show, we have -- figures show we have more people working on
:15:56. > :16:00.short-term contracts, more people working part-time and we don't know
:16:00. > :16:03.the sustainability of the circumstances. While we want to see
:16:03. > :16:11.increases in employment and reductions in unemployment, that is
:16:11. > :16:15.not the full picture. That is all that Ken McIntories -- McIntosh is
:16:15. > :16:19.pointing out. We welcome the youth fund. But we have to take everything
:16:19. > :16:24.in the round. We are not trying to create it as a bad news story, but
:16:24. > :16:28.ensure that the Scottish Government remain focussed on the full picture,
:16:28. > :16:32.because there is more work to be done. Ed Milliband was criticising
:16:32. > :16:38.David Cameron for his handling of the economy, but when you see these
:16:38. > :16:43.employment figures, are we perhaps seeing the green shoots? Well, they
:16:43. > :16:48.may well be, but we have seen information there may be a down turn
:16:48. > :16:50.next year. We have to be vigilant, of course we want to see
:16:50. > :16:53.improvements in the employment situation and we welcome any
:16:53. > :16:57.reductions in unemployment and we want to see people's lives being
:16:57. > :17:01.bettered by the opportunity of going into work. We are not going to decry
:17:01. > :17:06.that. But it is about the bigger picture. We want to see an
:17:06. > :17:11.improvement in the economy, but we want to see that sustainable and see
:17:11. > :17:20.the jobs that are being created, long-term, high skilled and
:17:20. > :17:23.sustainable. Not short-term fixes. Gavin Brown, your listening to the
:17:23. > :17:27.arguments, does it seem like the Scottish Government is doing more
:17:27. > :17:32.than the UK Government to help Scotland's economy recover when you
:17:32. > :17:37.look at something like the youth jobs fund? You have to be careful
:17:37. > :17:41.looking at one quarter's figures. These are good figures, but they
:17:41. > :17:45.represent February to April of this year, over one quarter. If you look
:17:45. > :17:50.at the course over the last three years, there have been long periods
:17:50. > :17:54.where the UK has done better in terms of employment and there have
:17:54. > :18:00.been periods where Scotland has done better in employment. The figures
:18:00. > :18:06.today show that Scotland currently has a healthier picture for both
:18:06. > :18:11.unemployment and employment, but the unemployment is still far too high
:18:11. > :18:21.at 194,000 people and there are some choppy waters ahead. I think they
:18:21. > :18:22.
:18:22. > :18:29.are a good set of figures, but there is a lot to do. Jaime ji Hepburn --
:18:29. > :18:33.Jamie Hepburn, another thing, the retained welfare for transitional
:18:33. > :18:39.payments, what do you make of that, you have been castigated for that.
:18:39. > :18:44.What does independence mean? What does independence mean? The Scottish
:18:44. > :18:49.Government has been clear, it means we still have the degree of policy
:18:49. > :18:55.control over wealthier policy. I don't think this is a report that
:18:55. > :19:00.should be easily dismissed, this panel was headed by Darragh Singh.
:19:00. > :19:06.It is an expert panel coming up with expert recommendations. The
:19:06. > :19:12.recommendation is a simple transitional arrangements whereby
:19:12. > :19:16.the administrative side is shared and not until 2020, not for a one or
:19:16. > :19:20.two year period. That seems to be a sensible arrangement. The key is of
:19:20. > :19:28.course that we will be able to move away from the Westminster race to
:19:28. > :19:32.the bottom and see the condemn Government's reform and we have seen
:19:32. > :19:38.the rhetoric from Labour, they are joining in that race to the bottom.
:19:38. > :19:44.We can move from that with policy control over these matters. That is
:19:44. > :19:48.what independence will mean. Michael McMahon, it is a sensible idea and
:19:48. > :19:54.means that Scotland can have control over welfare eventually? It is an
:19:54. > :19:59.old trick to promise j tomorrow, what we are getting is no promise of
:19:59. > :20:04.any jam and if there is, someone else will deliver it. The reality is
:20:04. > :20:09.if the SNP continue down this road, it will be the Labour Party and the
:20:09. > :20:13.unionist parties who will be offering more in terms of devolution
:20:13. > :20:17.than the SNP. They continually insist that nothing will change and
:20:18. > :20:21.everything will remain the same we have to stick with the DWP for
:20:21. > :20:28.welfare and with the Bank of England and the pound. Where is this
:20:28. > :20:34.independence? You wonder why we're going to bother having a referendum.
:20:34. > :20:38.Gavin Brown is this not a sensible attempt to find a way of working out
:20:38. > :20:41.how independence might work? The big problem for the Scottish Government
:20:42. > :20:45.is they claim to be against all the reforms that have taken place so far
:20:45. > :20:49.in the relation to welfare, but when pressed on which of them they would
:20:49. > :20:57.reverse, I am struggling to find any that they say they would reverse.
:20:57. > :21:01.Would they reverse the change from RPI to CPI? They would reverse child
:21:01. > :21:05.benefit changes? Most they will not say whether they will reverse. They
:21:05. > :21:12.just have a bland statement that Scotland will be fairer and better,
:21:12. > :21:22.without specific commitments it is difficult for them to be held to it.
:21:22. > :21:22.
:21:22. > :21:27.Thank you. Now, official planning decisions are key to making the
:21:27. > :21:35.economy run smoothly, the Scottish Government's third national planning
:21:35. > :21:44.framework is being debated at Holyrood today. The local government
:21:44. > :21:49.minister is speaking in the chamber now, let's cross live and listen to
:21:49. > :21:54.him there. They will benefit the position of Scotland as we reach the
:21:54. > :21:58.ambitions that we have laid out. I don't buy into the idea that the UK
:21:58. > :22:01.Government would be so reckless on the idea that Scotland achieves
:22:02. > :22:06.independence. We see it as a pragmatic opportunity and I am sure
:22:06. > :22:10.the UK Government will see sense also. One thing that has been
:22:10. > :22:14.striking as I have talked to people about what should be in this has
:22:14. > :22:18.been the support for green infrastructure and the central
:22:19. > :22:23.Scotland green network has been a popular national development. There
:22:23. > :22:27.is no doubt we want to continue to support this, we have had much
:22:27. > :22:33.interest in walking and cycling infrastructure and I propose that
:22:33. > :22:40.the development of a national network of routes be a national
:22:40. > :22:49.development. Of course. Thank you. 20 years ago I was involved in
:22:49. > :22:56.helping set up community nature reserve which was from site
:22:56. > :23:04.regeneration and is now regarded as a community asset. In relation to
:23:04. > :23:12.the policies on brownfield sites, could the minister reflect on the
:23:12. > :23:16.importance sor op -- of some brown field life for bug life and others?
:23:16. > :23:23.That is an important point and I have been impressed with work for
:23:23. > :23:30.the Scottish Wildlife Trust, who I visited, seeing the path ways that
:23:30. > :23:35.show how we can connect ecosystems with economics and this is a great
:23:35. > :23:39.example of where this has been done on a strategic basis. That is
:23:39. > :23:43.proposed to continue within the national planning framework. That
:23:43. > :23:48.point about that understanding of the environment is central in these
:23:48. > :23:54.document and we want to bring that alive locally, as well on a national
:23:54. > :23:57.basis. In terms of our proposed strategy of course we must recognise
:23:57. > :24:04.the role of the cities as drivers of economic work and will do further
:24:04. > :24:09.work on the cities and towns to support economic regeneration.
:24:09. > :24:16.Examples of good planning also include for the first time as a
:24:16. > :24:23.national designation at Ravens Craig and Dundee waterfront, where we
:24:23. > :24:27.launched the proposals. Further comments on alternative fuels,
:24:27. > :24:33.decarbonising transport, support of rail and further energy aspects as
:24:33. > :24:38.they relate to a low carbon ambitions. We have taken recognition
:24:38. > :24:42.of how some projects have been developed and developed no longer
:24:42. > :24:47.require that consenting regime and they no longer feature. Other
:24:47. > :24:53.changes will include the long-term ambitions at scar pa throw and
:24:53. > :24:58.Hunter stop which hours may talk of. These policies represent something
:24:58. > :25:00.for every part of the country, focussing on sustainable growth and
:25:00. > :25:06.giving protection to the environment. A balance that we have
:25:06. > :25:10.to strike for the right reasons to achieve the Government's objective
:25:10. > :25:19.in consultation with communities across Scotland. And that in that
:25:19. > :25:26.sense I commend the motion on these policy documents to Parliament.
:25:26. > :25:33.Sara Boyack. I want to thank the many organisations who have sent us
:25:33. > :25:37.brief, I realise they have had a short time to pull together their
:25:37. > :25:41.observations. At its heart, planning is a democratic process, which
:25:41. > :25:45.enables communities and their representatives to shape change and
:25:45. > :25:50.the purpose of the Labour amendment is to flag up concerns about the
:25:50. > :25:57.increasing use of term sustainable economic growth, rather than
:25:57. > :26:02.sustainable development. A more sustainable Scotland will be created
:26:02. > :26:09.by the day-to-day decisions taken through the planning system.
:26:09. > :26:12.Leadership's crucial and there is much to welcome in both the draft
:26:12. > :26:15.MPF three and Scottish planning policy, but the definitions are
:26:16. > :26:24.important. I want to take the opportunity to push the minister on
:26:24. > :26:27.the way he has framed the purpose and the objectives in the NPF. I
:26:27. > :26:33.believe deaf I was ins are important and the suggest that economic
:26:33. > :26:41.benefits should trump other ks would be a -- considerations would be a
:26:41. > :26:45.step back. That was Sarah Boyack speaking. Now some final thoughts
:26:45. > :26:50.from Paul Gilbride. Something else at Prime Minister's question from
:26:50. > :26:56.the Labour MP from Dundee West on the issue of blacklisting. These
:26:56. > :27:01.were building firms which blacklisted employees for political
:27:01. > :27:06.connections and other things? and sometimes just gossip from what
:27:06. > :27:13.the Scottish affairs select committee has discovered. Yes, this
:27:13. > :27:17.whole issue is an absolute disgrace. The unions in Scotland have been
:27:17. > :27:20.calling for the Scottish government to launch a public inquiry. The
:27:20. > :27:25.situation from the Scottish Government's point of view, the
:27:25. > :27:30.committee which is investigated this situation which goes back to the
:27:30. > :27:37.when -- when it was discovered in 2009, they haven't finished that
:27:38. > :27:41.inquiry and they have asked for new evidence. Also the other factor is
:27:41. > :27:48.employment legislation still is reserved to Westminster. As far as
:27:48. > :27:53.the Scottish Government is concerned, let's get the inquiry out
:27:53. > :27:59.of the way and we will take it from there. But it does appear to be the
:27:59. > :28:06.case that there is about 600 workers in Scotland were on this secret
:28:06. > :28:10.blacklist. Jim McGovern raised it, what did the Prime Minister say?
:28:10. > :28:14.was asked if he saw the documentary about this, I think the Prime
:28:14. > :28:20.Minister's response was he hadn't seen Panorama. Of course, Jim
:28:20. > :28:27.McGovern said it was Sir object McAlpine, one of the companies
:28:27. > :28:31.involved, he speak about McCarthyism. But the Prime Minister
:28:31. > :28:37.wasn't taking it on? No the Prime Minister will be the same as the
:28:37. > :28:42.Scottish Government, let's see what comes out of the final report of the
:28:42. > :28:47.Scottish Affairs Commitee. And these workers are won'ting compensation
:28:47. > :28:51.and maybe jail for the people who blacklisted them. Yes and some of
:28:51. > :28:56.these workers weren't able to bring a wage in for 25 years, because they
:28:56. > :29:02.appeared on this blacklist, allegedly so. Quite right. Paul
:29:02. > :29:06.Gilbride thank you. So this a all we have time for today, it is a shorter
:29:06. > :29:12.programme, we are now making way for Andy Murray who is on court at