:00:26. > :00:31.Scotland. Coming up - unemployment here is up for the first time in
:00:31. > :00:35.six months, and it is now above the UK average. Why does Alex Salmond
:00:35. > :00:38.want to keep royals secrets even more secret? And here at
:00:38. > :00:42.Westminster, the Prime Minister issues an apology to the families
:00:42. > :00:47.of those who died in the Hillsborough disaster. He says more
:00:47. > :00:51.could and should have been done to save lives.
:00:51. > :00:55.But first, unemployment in Scotland has increased for the first time in
:00:55. > :01:01.six months. The number of people who are out of work rose between
:01:01. > :01:09.May and July. Our business correspondent, David Henderson,
:01:09. > :01:14.joins me now, as does our political commentator for the afternoon,
:01:14. > :01:19.Angus Macleod, of the Times in Scotland. These figures are from
:01:19. > :01:25.made to July this year. They show a rise in unemployment of 4,000 in
:01:25. > :01:30.Scotland. The headline rate is now 223,000 people without a job. This
:01:30. > :01:35.is the first time we have seen such an increase in six months. We saw a
:01:35. > :01:40.relatively steady, Gentle fall in unemployment over recent months. At
:01:40. > :01:49.the same time, this month, unemployment in the UK as a whole
:01:49. > :01:55.actually fell by about 7,000, to stand at just over 2.5 million. So,
:01:55. > :02:01.it takes the rate in Scotland above the UK average. We are standing at
:02:01. > :02:07.around 8.2%. The UK rate is 8.1%. What can you read into these
:02:07. > :02:11.figures? We probably should not be surprised that we are seeing an
:02:11. > :02:16.increase in unemployment, because there has been a lot of data
:02:16. > :02:20.showing that the economy is relatively weak. We have seen
:02:20. > :02:23.virtually no growth in the economy since the early part of 2010. We
:02:23. > :02:27.saw a weak economic survey from the Bank of Scotland earlier in the
:02:27. > :02:32.week. We saw very poor retail sales figures just today. Having said
:02:32. > :02:37.that, there are some who are surprised that unemployment has not
:02:37. > :02:41.actually risen more in recent months. The unemployment rate, as I
:02:41. > :02:48.was saying, has been pretty steady in recent times, rather than peaks
:02:48. > :02:52.and troughs. One of the main reasons for that, I think, is that
:02:52. > :02:56.instead of people simply being employed or unemployed, you have
:02:56. > :03:00.this grey area, where people are working on short-term contracts,
:03:01. > :03:04.self employed, working part-time, they would like to work full-time
:03:04. > :03:08.but they cannot - you might call it under-employment, rather than
:03:08. > :03:12.unemployment. A lot of that is masking these figures, a lot of
:03:12. > :03:17.people working less than they might like, not being able to get a full-
:03:17. > :03:23.time job. Angus Macleod, I suppose, some predictable reaction from the
:03:23. > :03:27.government in Westminster and in Scotland. Absolutely. The ping-pong
:03:27. > :03:31.between the two governments will go on as long as the situation gets
:03:31. > :03:36.even worse than it already is. There are a couple of things to say.
:03:36. > :03:41.David referred to a lot of the data which is coming out. We have had
:03:41. > :03:45.the data about high street sales, which were pretty abysmal in August.
:03:45. > :03:49.Even more important, I thought, were some data we got a couple of
:03:49. > :03:54.weeks ago about the few people who are actually setting up their own
:03:54. > :04:00.companies a now in Scotland. That, compared with the best of the UK,
:04:00. > :04:07.is pretty weak as well. All round, it is a pretty desperate situation.
:04:07. > :04:11.Thank you very much. The economy is also dominating business in
:04:11. > :04:15.Holyrood this week. The main debate in the chamber, which now takes
:04:15. > :04:18.place on a Tuesday, looked at sustainable development. According
:04:18. > :04:21.to the Finance Secretary, John Swinney, more construction is what
:04:21. > :04:26.is needed to get the economy back on track.
:04:26. > :04:30.In July, output figures for the first quarter of 2012 showed that
:04:30. > :04:33.whilst the fall in growth has not been as severe as that in the rest
:04:33. > :04:36.of the United Kingdom, the Scottish economy did return to a technical
:04:36. > :04:42.recession, following two consecutive quarters of declining
:04:42. > :04:47.output. The fall was driven entirely by the performance of just
:04:47. > :04:51.one sector, construction. Output in the production and service sectors,
:04:51. > :04:55.which account for 90% of Scottish economic output, continued to
:04:55. > :05:00.expand. Had we been able to maintain support and investment in
:05:00. > :05:03.construction, recession could have been avoided. It is the figures for
:05:03. > :05:08.the construction industry which show just how economically damaging
:05:08. > :05:14.the Chancellor's decision to reduce Scotland's capital budget has been.
:05:14. > :05:19.If we look back at the economic circumstances of 2008 to 2010, when
:05:19. > :05:23.the government was able to expand its capital investment programme,
:05:23. > :05:28.we are able to see a discernible and positive benefit of that on the
:05:28. > :05:33.performance of the Scottish economy. And clearly, the reductions in
:05:33. > :05:35.capital budgets at this stage are having an effect. Scotland's
:05:35. > :05:39.performance economically has been disappointing, but it demonstrates
:05:39. > :05:44.a degree of resilience, when compared to the rest of the United
:05:44. > :05:51.Kingdom, where output declined by a much larger 0.7% over the same two
:05:51. > :05:56.quarters. Throughout this economic downturn, we have sought to pursue
:05:56. > :06:00.a different approach, one of investing in the economy, in
:06:00. > :06:03.households and supporting capital infrastructure. The refusal of the
:06:03. > :06:09.United Kingdom government to change position is now severely your
:06:09. > :06:14.bidding our ability to pursue that approach. -- severely limiting our
:06:14. > :06:19.ability to pursue that approach. While I recognise that growth is
:06:19. > :06:23.being affected by the uncertainty in the euro area, it is nonetheless
:06:23. > :06:30.clear that the fiscal approach of the United Kingdom government is
:06:30. > :06:35.not working. Other European economies... Of course. I am great
:06:35. > :06:37.full. Can we just be clear about one point. John Swinney calls for
:06:37. > :06:44.the UK government to increase capital spending, but is it not the
:06:44. > :06:49.case that what he is calling for his greater borrowing? We are in
:06:49. > :06:53.fact, as the Deputy First Minister helpfully points out, getting more
:06:53. > :06:57.borrowing, because revenues are falling. I will come on to that.
:06:57. > :07:00.But there is a judgment to be arrived at, which is a fine
:07:00. > :07:05.judgment, I except, but one which has to be arrived at, between
:07:05. > :07:10.whether or not the austerity measures of themselves are creating
:07:10. > :07:14.a deeper economic problem from which to recover, or the scenario
:07:14. > :07:19.which this government in Scotland supports, which is to sustain
:07:19. > :07:23.investment in capital projects to enable us to then stimulate the
:07:23. > :07:29.economy and to generate those tax revenues that will in fact improve
:07:29. > :07:35.the situation. To address directly the point which Mr Fraser has
:07:35. > :07:38.raised with me, overall, government borrowing in the United Kingdom is
:07:38. > :07:48.�9.3 billion higher than at the same time last year, and the
:07:48. > :07:52.
:07:52. > :07:56.current estimates are that borrowing will overshoot the
:07:56. > :08:00.forecast. So, the likelihood of having more borrowing simply to
:08:00. > :08:05.deal with the implications of austerity appears to me to be a
:08:05. > :08:07.pretty likely scenario. This appears to be a government with no
:08:07. > :08:11.real sense of purpose or direction, other than of course towards the
:08:11. > :08:16.referendum. It is certainly not a programme which convinces many that
:08:16. > :08:20.it is designed to address the main difficulties facing families across
:08:20. > :08:23.Scotland - joblessness and the cost of living - nor the economic
:08:23. > :08:29.problems facing businesses and services. On the other hand, the
:08:29. > :08:33.promotion of the referendum, the promotion of responsibility for
:08:33. > :08:36.constitutional affairs to the supposedly number one minister, has
:08:36. > :08:40.meant the consequent demotion of responsibility for capital
:08:40. > :08:44.expenditure and economic investment. As a decision, that is the
:08:44. > :08:49.political equivalent of rubbing salt into the wound. I'm not sure
:08:49. > :08:53.if it is ironic, but it is certainly galling, insensitive, and
:08:53. > :08:57.reflects a skewed sense of our country's priorities. We will have
:08:57. > :09:00.more on the economy during the programme. We can go no to speak to
:09:00. > :09:05.our political correspondent, Raymond Buchanan, at Holyrood. One
:09:05. > :09:09.other story in the news today, the European Commission would seem to
:09:09. > :09:13.be trying to clarify remarks made by one of its spokes people, who
:09:13. > :09:17.indicated that an independent Scotland would not automatically be
:09:17. > :09:24.part of the EU. This is one of the great debates running up to the
:09:24. > :09:27.referendum which the SNP want to have by 2014. The Scottish
:09:27. > :09:32.Government's position is that they would have automatic membership,
:09:32. > :09:36.but others have questioned that and sought clarity on the matter. It is
:09:36. > :09:40.important not just for people in Scotland, but also in other parts
:09:40. > :09:44.of Europe. The question to the spokesman yesterday was because 1.5
:09:44. > :09:48.million people were on the streets of Barcelona, and they of course
:09:48. > :09:56.have their own issues when it comes to part of Spain wanting to have
:09:56. > :09:59.greater autonomy. It is a very live issue in Europe, and Jose Manuel
:09:59. > :10:04.Barroso has been speaking about it in the last couple of hours. He
:10:04. > :10:10.says he will not speculate on succession issues, saying it is not
:10:10. > :10:13.part of his job. But he does so that any new state would have to
:10:13. > :10:18.apply to become a member of the European Union, the question being
:10:18. > :10:22.whether Scotland would be viewed as a new state or not. This is what
:10:22. > :10:28.Alex Salmond had to say. European Commission states its
:10:28. > :10:33.policy on parliamentary answers, they do not change these at press
:10:33. > :10:36.conferences. The commission policy is unchanged. Our determination in
:10:36. > :10:40.terms of the Scottish Government, we are part of the European Union,
:10:40. > :10:44.and we intend to stay part of the European Union. Of course there
:10:44. > :10:47.will be negotiations, but these negotiations, on things like
:10:47. > :10:53.representation, will take place within the context of the European
:10:53. > :11:00.Union - of that there is no doubt whatsoever. Is this politically
:11:00. > :11:04.difficult for the SNP? Potentially, certainly. Their opponents are
:11:04. > :11:07.making hay with this particular issue, saying that the certainty of
:11:07. > :11:12.the SNP government has been called into question. But it is important
:11:12. > :11:15.to stress that the commission seems to be trying to clarify its role,
:11:15. > :11:19.not speculating directly on what might happen in the case of
:11:19. > :11:21.Scotland. But the issue will not go away, it will be one of the big
:11:21. > :11:25.questions ahead of that independence referendum. Moving
:11:25. > :11:29.from Brussels to Buckingham Palace, another controversy this lunchtime,
:11:29. > :11:34.the row about the secrecy of the correspondence between members of
:11:34. > :11:39.the Royal Family and the Scottish Government - can you tell us more
:11:39. > :11:44.about it? About a decade ago, this place made a big play about the
:11:44. > :11:51.fact that it had passed changes allowing greater freedom of
:11:51. > :11:54.information with regards to asking questions of people in authority.
:11:54. > :11:59.Well, that has now been called into question, because the Scottish
:11:59. > :12:02.Government planned to have an absolute exception, meaning any
:12:02. > :12:05.communications from senior members of the royal household would be
:12:05. > :12:09.exempt from being released under freedom of information legislation.
:12:09. > :12:17.That has been described by the Information Commissioner in
:12:17. > :12:21.Scotland as a retrograde step. The government represented justified it,
:12:21. > :12:25.saying it was strange to have a situation where correspondence
:12:25. > :12:28.between Chaplow and the Queen would be absolutely protected, whereas
:12:28. > :12:32.correspondence between the First Minister and the Queen could be
:12:32. > :12:42.subject to release as part of freedom information laws. That is
:12:42. > :12:42.
:12:42. > :12:46.one of the debate going on at the I am joined in the studio once
:12:46. > :12:56.again by our political correspondent, Angus Macleod. This
:12:56. > :12:58.
:12:58. > :13:01.EU Raul is proving a bit difficult for the SNP, isn't it? What I was
:13:01. > :13:05.really interested in was the clip of the First Minister. Correct me
:13:05. > :13:09.if I am wrong, but I'm sure I heard him say that an independent
:13:09. > :13:13.Scotland would have to negotiate. For why many, that's perhaps the
:13:14. > :13:18.first time that the First Minister has admitted that. Of course, an
:13:18. > :13:22.independent Scotland would have to negotiate, but having said that, I
:13:22. > :13:26.think there is another myth around this whole issue, that if Scotland
:13:26. > :13:30.became independent, that there would be some massive gap between
:13:30. > :13:35.it becoming independent and joining the EU. In fact, I think history
:13:35. > :13:38.has shown, recent history, that these negotiations, which the First
:13:38. > :13:42.Minister referred to, could be done in pretty speedy time. You might
:13:42. > :13:49.perhaps have a cup of two years. Some people might find that too
:13:49. > :13:52.long, but it seems to me that the cat is out of the bag a little bit
:13:52. > :13:56.on this. I think there is no genuine recognition that
:13:56. > :14:00.negotiations would have to be undertaken. The original SNP
:14:00. > :14:05.argument was that we are a member state at the moment, and if the UK
:14:05. > :14:11.breaks up, then of course, the rest of the UK should have to have these
:14:11. > :14:15.negotiations as well, not just Scotland. Highly debatable. If one
:14:15. > :14:20.part of a member state decides to secede, why should the remaining
:14:20. > :14:24.part of that state be penalised in any way? But the other thing, the
:14:24. > :14:29.word which has disappeared from the SNP rhetoric on this, is the word
:14:29. > :14:34.automatic. I think now there is general recognition that there will
:14:34. > :14:37.not be automatic membership for an independent Scotland. By of course,
:14:37. > :14:42.what the First Minister should really do is that if he does have
:14:42. > :14:45.legal advice on this issue, and publish it. Don Cowie will be put
:14:45. > :14:53.in this question to a clutch of MSPs shortly, and we will also be
:14:53. > :15:00.speaking to them about the economy. It is such a crucial issue. Of
:15:00. > :15:03.course. Actually, a lot of people say, quite rightly, that
:15:03. > :15:07.independence or remaining part of the UK will hinge on the economic
:15:07. > :15:11.arguments. There is a very important date coming up, December
:15:11. > :15:14.5th, when George Osborne stands up to make his Autumn Statement. It
:15:14. > :15:19.could be one of the most important autumn statements since the Second
:15:19. > :15:23.World War. I will explain what I mean. John Swinney was absolutely
:15:23. > :15:27.right, the Chancellor is failing dismally to meet his deficit
:15:27. > :15:32.reduction targets, and he is now faced with a crunch decision - does
:15:32. > :15:38.he abandon these targets, or does he maintain the targets and embark
:15:38. > :15:42.on even more public spending cuts? If he does that, I think there will
:15:42. > :15:52.be despair in every government department and in a very devolved
:15:52. > :15:57.
:15:57. > :16:04.Is there uncertainty on the Tory benches about George Osborne? He
:16:04. > :16:08.survived the reshuffle. David Cameron would have said that the
:16:08. > :16:15.whole economic strategy it and thinking since 20 tend would have
:16:15. > :16:19.been wrong and no Prime Minister would admit that. -- since 2010.
:16:19. > :16:23.Thanks very much for now. Let's go back to Holyrood now and
:16:23. > :16:25.speak to John Mason from the SNP, who's a member of the Finance
:16:25. > :16:28.Committee, Labour's Finance Spokesman, Ken Macintosh, and Murdo
:16:28. > :16:38.Fraser, the Scottish Conservatives' Finance Spokesman. Let's focus on
:16:38. > :16:39.
:16:39. > :16:43.the employment statistics. Good afternoon. First, to you John Mason.
:16:43. > :16:47.Unemployment is worse than the rest of the UK and the SNP government to
:16:48. > :16:53.credit when it was a bit better. Who is taking the rap for the rise
:16:53. > :17:02.in unemployment now? It depends which figures you look at because
:17:02. > :17:08.the employment figures look better. Also, if you look at female
:17:08. > :17:13.employment, both the employment and -- is higher and unemployment is
:17:13. > :17:18.lower than the rest of the UK. If there is good news for Scotland
:17:18. > :17:22.There also challenges ahead. One of those is that young folk are being
:17:22. > :17:28.offered jobs that are flexible and part time. It is not good for the
:17:28. > :17:34.work force, is it? It is better to do a job than no job, but the key
:17:34. > :17:39.thing is that Westminster has been told repeatedly to invest in
:17:39. > :17:43.capital expenditure. They repeatedly will not listen so I am
:17:43. > :17:46.sure that John Swinney will do a lot of good things in next week's
:17:46. > :17:54.Budget but the Westminster government holds a lot of the
:17:54. > :17:58.strings. As Murdo Fraser pointed out, it it means greater borrowing.
:17:58. > :18:02.He but the Westminster of government is borrowing already
:18:02. > :18:07.more than they intended. This surely it would be better for that
:18:07. > :18:12.are going to capital expenditure rather than day-to-day costs.
:18:12. > :18:18.Fraser, the UK government is borrowing more so why can't the
:18:18. > :18:24.Scottish government get some of that for capital spending?
:18:24. > :18:26.don't pour paraffin on the flames to put a fire out. There were a
:18:26. > :18:31.reckless levels of borrowing by the previous Labour government and the
:18:31. > :18:36.answer is not to borrow more. There are a number of things government
:18:36. > :18:40.can do to try to deal with the problem that affects the UK economy
:18:40. > :18:48.and the Scottish economy and the whole of the Western world. I'm
:18:48. > :18:51.sure the Chancellor is looking at some of those measures, not least
:18:51. > :18:57.the supply side of things to liberalise the labour market as in
:18:57. > :19:02.Germany. That might help the economy. Let us not kid ourselves
:19:02. > :19:07.that there are easy answers. What was clear from the debate yet the
:19:07. > :19:14.day was the SNP government has just won silver bullet, borrowing more
:19:14. > :19:19.money and spending on capital but I'm not convinced it is that simple.
:19:19. > :19:24.You criticise the Scottish government and go on about saying
:19:24. > :19:29.there's focus is purely independent but the blame probably false fairly
:19:29. > :19:36.and squarely on your doorstep for massively increasing borrowing up
:19:36. > :19:40.to 2010. There are an number of problems and no easy fixes, but I
:19:40. > :19:46.suggest that, as voters and taxpayers, we expect both
:19:46. > :19:51.governments to do what they can. In Scotland, last year we had a
:19:51. > :19:55.finance minister who said it was a Budget for jobs and growth. He we
:19:55. > :19:59.are with unemployment worse than across the UK and it was confirmed
:19:59. > :20:04.last month that we are in double dip recession in Scotland. We are
:20:04. > :20:08.not getting a Budget for jobs and growth. I am not surprised. The
:20:08. > :20:13.finance minister is going back to Westminster constantly asking for
:20:13. > :20:19.more money rather than accepting he has cut money from his own budget.
:20:19. > :20:24.We lost 12,000 builders last year in Scotland and we have a finance
:20:24. > :20:30.minister who cut housing. I don't get how that was a Budget for jobs
:20:30. > :20:35.and growth. I want to turn to another issue. John Mason, the
:20:35. > :20:40.issue of the EU commissioner, the spokesman, who indicated that
:20:40. > :20:44.Scotland would not automatically be part of the EU. That is something
:20:44. > :20:49.the SNP had been asserting, although as the clip mention,
:20:49. > :20:54.they're maybe negotiations for Scotland to enter into the EU. Do
:20:54. > :21:00.you think there will have to be negotiations now. And to enter into
:21:00. > :21:07.the EU? We will not need to enter it because we are in the European
:21:07. > :21:16.Union. So you assert! For Scotland and the UK there would be
:21:16. > :21:20.negotiations. For example, how many MEPs to have. Scotland is more part
:21:20. > :21:25.of the mainstream of Europe than the rest of the UK. We are more
:21:25. > :21:29.positive about Europe. If you ask most European's if they would
:21:29. > :21:37.rather have Scotland than the UK, they would rather have Scotland.
:21:37. > :21:41.This is now falling it into their category that nobody is quite clear
:21:41. > :21:46.about whether Scotland will will not be a member of the EU. It
:21:46. > :21:51.applies to a lot of other areas when it comes to independence.
:21:51. > :21:55.is full of uncertainty. You can't tell me what corporation tax or
:21:55. > :22:01.national insurance will be next year. We have to negotiate many
:22:01. > :22:07.things that get discussed year by year. When we get to that stage,
:22:07. > :22:13.the EU will be interested... When Scotland has made a vote. But life
:22:13. > :22:19.is about negotiations. We do it as a party, an individual and as a
:22:19. > :22:24.country. Labour are taking great delight with what is coming out of
:22:24. > :22:28.Brussels at the moment, but nobody knows what will happen post-
:22:28. > :22:33.independence are there is no point in crowing. We are not crowing.
:22:33. > :22:40.Life is full of uncertainties and they are entirely of the SNP's
:22:40. > :22:47.making. They are pushing for independence but, yet again, John
:22:47. > :22:50.made an assertion that they are set a case and not argue or prove it.
:22:50. > :22:55.The European Commission spokesman made it clear that Scotland would
:22:55. > :23:03.have to negotiate its way back into the EU if we leave the UK. All the
:23:03. > :23:07.SNP can do is shoot the messenger, as they all we do. When the CBI
:23:07. > :23:12.criticised them last year, all of a sudden they are a body that is not
:23:12. > :23:15.worth listening to. They create uncertainty amongst the Scottish
:23:15. > :23:21.people, amongst bidders and it is something to be extremely anxious
:23:21. > :23:26.about. -- are amongst business. you think the Prime Minister got
:23:26. > :23:31.the Foreign Office to give the ambassador in Brussels in contact
:23:31. > :23:39.with the commissioner and told him to stay out of internal politics?
:23:39. > :23:44.It is an interesting intervention. I don't think that the EU
:23:44. > :23:49.Commission and the UK Government's relations are so good that there
:23:49. > :23:52.would be influence from David Cameron. This is the first time a
:23:52. > :23:59.spokesman has set out so definitively that Scotland would
:23:59. > :24:04.not automatically be part of the EU. If somebody says, of course we are.
:24:04. > :24:09.It is not necessarily the case. There is an easy answer and that is
:24:09. > :24:15.that Alexander Salmond tells us he has legal advice. Why does he not
:24:15. > :24:19.show as? Why is the spending tens of thousands of pounds on Scottish
:24:19. > :24:23.taxpayers' money that could be spent creating jobs trying to
:24:23. > :24:31.protect that legal advice from public scrutiny? He should come up
:24:31. > :24:34.with the goods. Gentlemen, thank you all very much for joining me.
:24:34. > :24:37.Now, the Scottish Government has been consulting on what they're
:24:37. > :24:40.calling the greatest transfer of powers since devolution. They say
:24:40. > :24:50.there are radical ideas, including the urban right to buy. The debate
:24:50. > :24:54.
:24:54. > :25:00.on the proposed Community Empowerement Bill is going on.
:25:00. > :25:04.Firstly... The introduction implies the purpose of the bill is to
:25:04. > :25:08.achieve sustainable economic growth. That is not an objective that we
:25:08. > :25:13.would disagree with necessarily, but we think it is crucial that we
:25:13. > :25:18.need to make sure that inequalities across communities are addressed in
:25:18. > :25:22.this bill. There are powerful points about that. It is important
:25:22. > :25:26.philosophically because without it there is nothing to guide difficult
:25:26. > :25:29.decisions to be taken and the bill could inadvertently lead to the
:25:29. > :25:35.widening of inequalities by favouring those who already have
:25:35. > :25:40.the capacity to take action to be successful. It goes to the heart of
:25:40. > :25:44.how we identify communities. Communities of interest or
:25:44. > :25:47.geographical communities and that is why we will argue for the
:25:47. > :25:53.principles of social justice and equality to underpin the ambitions
:25:53. > :25:57.of this bill. Many public services exist because we believe, as a
:25:57. > :26:01.society, that the provision of services and the exercise of rights
:26:01. > :26:05.can be delivered and shaped in a more cost effective and
:26:05. > :26:12.comprehensive way through elective action. We think public services
:26:12. > :26:17.are important and evolving from Logan authorities in favour of
:26:17. > :26:22.local resources, land or buildings, the test will have to take place at
:26:22. > :26:28.a local level as well. That is why the other omission from this
:26:28. > :26:32.exercise is a reference to the role of councillors. The paper talks
:26:32. > :26:37.about that, but in the Government's own consultation, it would have
:26:37. > :26:41.been better to reflect the fact that local councillors reflect the
:26:41. > :26:45.aspirations of local communities and they're offer and key players
:26:46. > :26:51.or champions of local communities to generate support for initiatives
:26:51. > :26:55.and make a better use of resources - whether it is asking outside
:26:56. > :27:00.resources to bring in resources or whether it is asking councils to
:27:00. > :27:07.unlock resources. There will these to be properly acknowledged because
:27:07. > :27:11.they have a legitimacy from the democratic electoral process. They
:27:11. > :27:15.have to weigh up individual ambitions against a wider
:27:15. > :27:21.collective ambition. This needs to be explored further. One key area
:27:21. > :27:25.that flows from the discussion, it is a lesson that needs to be learnt
:27:25. > :27:31.from the Royal ambitions and the Right to Buy agenda, disadvantaged
:27:31. > :27:40.areas do not automatically have a range of expertise needed in
:27:40. > :27:45.developing community it assets. Developing this is Keith. It leads
:27:45. > :27:49.to a point about linkages and crossovers between existing land
:27:49. > :27:53.reform legislation and this bill. It is something that ministers need
:27:54. > :27:58.to reflect on as you go through the consultation process. I would like
:27:58. > :28:05.to see a clarification on what the word -- role of the Land Reform
:28:05. > :28:09.Group is. They need to be a joined- up between rural land reform and
:28:09. > :28:13.right to buy and urban land reform and right to buy. We saw it with
:28:14. > :28:19.the initial land reform legislation and we saw it as unfinished
:28:19. > :28:23.business. Communities are sometimes referred to as rural or seen as an
:28:23. > :28:33.urban and we need to make sure there is a joined-up in terms of
:28:33. > :28:38.ground rules. It is a potentially radical element of the bill - one
:28:38. > :28:43.area I would like to see fleshed out is the issue of access to
:28:44. > :28:47.privately owned land. It is not really fleshed out in this
:28:47. > :28:51.consultation. Again, I think the Minister is giving himself more
:28:51. > :28:56.time and I would like to see what he thinks the ground rules should
:28:56. > :29:00.be because it is a potentially radical element of the bill in the
:29:01. > :29:06.context of urban communities, but you do not get any sense from the
:29:06. > :29:10.consultation of what the Scottish government's intention is. The tiny
:29:10. > :29:16.the trust and the Scottish Sports Association suggest a Register of
:29:16. > :29:24.assets as a key to get things moving. Let us hear more from Angus
:29:24. > :29:29.MacLeod from the times. That was live from the chamber. Angus, on
:29:29. > :29:36.11th September 1997, the referendum was held to set up that Parliament
:29:36. > :29:40.and 15 years passes pretty quickly. I'm young enough to remember! Yes,
:29:40. > :29:44.everyone reflects on the 15 years and I suppose the important
:29:44. > :29:49.question is was it worth while? It is not perfect and will change
:29:49. > :29:54.quite soon, but I think perhaps the biggest change in how the Scottish
:29:54. > :30:00.Parliament and devolution has been perceived is probably what I would
:30:00. > :30:04.call a taxi driver test. I mean that I well remember in the years
:30:04. > :30:09.before Holyrood, how taxi-drivers went off on one, if you see what I
:30:09. > :30:14.mean, when the subject of the parliament was raised. They hated
:30:14. > :30:18.it and it reflected a general view in Scotland. So many alleged
:30:18. > :30:23.mistakes were being made. But now you ask people what they think of
:30:23. > :30:27.the Parliament and there is a much more benevolent view towards it. It
:30:27. > :30:31.is part of the landscape of Scotland and, I suppose, that in
:30:31. > :30:37.itself is an achievement. No one would suggest seriously to get rid
:30:37. > :30:46.of it. It will change with the Scotland Act and it could she --
:30:46. > :30:51.change even further. A referendum on independence in 2014. The
:30:51. > :30:54.Independent Secretary will meet for talks tomorrow. What were they
:30:54. > :30:58.discuss -- discuss? Both governments are now inching towards
:30:58. > :31:04.a government on how the referendum will be conducted and I think it is
:31:04. > :31:11.a safe bet that most people agree there will be one. I hear that the
:31:11. > :31:16.first minister and the Scottish serious about a second question,
:31:16. > :31:21.but I am not sure I accept that. By going on about a second question,
:31:21. > :31:26.they have actually put themselves in a position of appearing to have
:31:26. > :31:30.lost out if we end up with a one question referendum, as I think
:31:30. > :31:38.they will. It is a matter of how the Scottish government gets out
:31:38. > :31:42.from under the whole question of a second question. That will... We
:31:42. > :31:52.will see the outcome when the negotiations are concluded, but I
:31:52. > :31:54.
:31:54. > :31:57.would thing by mid-October we will Thanks for the moment. Down to
:31:58. > :32:01.Westminster now, and Prime Minister's Questions, where David
:32:01. > :32:05.Cameron was forced to defend his government's record on unemployment,
:32:05. > :32:08.particularly when it comes to the number of women out of work. Let's
:32:08. > :32:12.have a look at some of the highlights. The number of women who
:32:12. > :32:17.have lost their jobs under the Government's cuts has been twice
:32:17. > :32:21.the number of the number of men. The statistics out today show that
:32:21. > :32:26.the number of female redundancies is rising over the last few months.
:32:26. > :32:30.In addition, of course, we now have nine government departments with
:32:31. > :32:40.not a single woman minister. I know the Prime Minister likes to think
:32:41. > :32:43.
:32:43. > :32:52.of himself as butch, he told us so last week in this very House, but
:32:52. > :32:55.what has the Prime Minister got against women? First of all, what I
:32:55. > :33:00.would say is, the unemployment figures today actually have a
:33:00. > :33:06.number of a very encouraging figures in them, including the fact
:33:06. > :33:11.that women's employment, the number of women in employment is actually
:33:11. > :33:14.up 128,000 this quarter, and that is up 250,000 more women in work
:33:14. > :33:19.than at the time of the last election, which is encouraging.
:33:19. > :33:22.Obviously, the way that we have treated public sector pay, and the
:33:22. > :33:27.public sector pay freeze, protecting low-paid people, that
:33:27. > :33:33.has actually helped women. But do we need to do more to help women
:33:33. > :33:40.into work, to help with child care and to help encourage more women
:33:40. > :33:44.into politics? Yes. The fall in unemployment is welcome. But all of
:33:44. > :33:49.us will be concerned by the number of people out of work for more than
:33:49. > :33:54.a year, which stands at 904,000, its highest level for 17 years.
:33:54. > :33:57.Does he agree with me that this is a particularly troubling statistics,
:33:57. > :34:01.because the longer someone is out of work, the harder it is for them
:34:01. > :34:05.to get back into it, and the more damage that is done to them, their
:34:05. > :34:09.families and indeed to the economy. High absolutely agree with him
:34:09. > :34:14.about the dangers and the threat of long-term employment. It is worth
:34:14. > :34:21.putting the full figures before the House. Unemployment is down by
:34:21. > :34:25.7,000, employment is up by 236,000 over the quarter. It is significant,
:34:26. > :34:29.because it is it is a figure, and also, the claimant count, the
:34:29. > :34:32.number of people claiming unemployment benefit, was down
:34:32. > :34:36.15,000 in August. When you look at the private sector jobs number,
:34:36. > :34:39.which is vital when you think that we need to rebalance the economy,
:34:39. > :34:45.there are more than one million net new private sector jobs over the
:34:45. > :34:48.last two years. He is absolutely right that the long-term
:34:48. > :34:53.unemployment figure is disturbing. That is what the work programme is
:34:53. > :34:57.designed to deal with. Last week's reshuffle was clearly a painful
:34:57. > :35:03.experience for many, but can the Prime Minister advise asked why he
:35:03. > :35:07.recommended knighthoods for five of his redundant male ministers, but
:35:07. > :35:13.there was nothing like a dame offer for his sacked female ministers?
:35:13. > :35:17.take the view that when people come into public life and work hard, in
:35:17. > :35:21.opposition and in government, and make a contribution, then that is
:35:21. > :35:25.something we should recognise. It should not only be permanent
:35:25. > :35:30.secretaries that receive these honours, we should also be prepared
:35:30. > :35:33.to honour ministers who work hard and serve their country. Our Armed
:35:33. > :35:37.Forces are always willing to do what we ask of them without
:35:37. > :35:42.complaint, but there will be a detrimental impact on training, to
:35:42. > :35:45.plummet opportunities and development, if we ask them to keep
:35:45. > :35:51.this country going in the face of strikes. Is this not another reason
:35:51. > :35:54.why those unions should think again? She makes a very good point.
:35:54. > :36:00.I hope these trade unions, who are meeting and discussing this
:36:00. > :36:04.appalling idea of a general strike, think again, and think of the
:36:04. > :36:06.economy, rather than their own selfish interests. The Prime
:36:06. > :36:09.Minister has apologised on behalf of the government and the country
:36:09. > :36:13.to the families of the victims of the Hillsborough disaster. He was
:36:13. > :36:19.making a statement in the House of Commons ahead of the publication of
:36:19. > :36:23.an independent report into the tragedy. 96 Liverpool fans died
:36:23. > :36:26.after being crushed during an FA Cup semi-final at the home of
:36:26. > :36:30.Sheffield Wednesday in 1989. new evidence which we are presented
:36:30. > :36:34.with today makes clear in my view that these families have suffered a
:36:34. > :36:39.double injustice. The injustice of the appalling events, the failure
:36:39. > :36:41.of the state to protect their loved ones and the indefensible wait to
:36:41. > :36:46.get to the truth and then the injustice of the denigration of the
:36:46. > :36:50.deceased, that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths. So, on
:36:50. > :36:54.behalf of the Government, and indeed our country, I am profoundly
:36:54. > :36:59.sorry that this double injustice has been left uncorrected for so
:36:59. > :37:04.long. Let's stay at Westminster and join our correspondent David Porter.
:37:04. > :37:10.A heartfelt apology from the Prime Minister, which almost mirrors the
:37:10. > :37:15.one from 2010, the Bloody Sunday apology. Yes, that was another
:37:15. > :37:20.dramatic day in the House of Commons. This was pretty dramatic
:37:20. > :37:24.stuff, at 12:30pm, when the Prime Minister got up and agreed with
:37:24. > :37:29.what is a devastating report by this independent group of people
:37:29. > :37:32.who have been looking into Hillsborough. Essentially, David
:37:32. > :37:37.Cameron was saying that not only should the emergency services have
:37:37. > :37:41.done more to try to save lives at Hillsborough but that the emergency
:37:41. > :37:45.services, in the form of South Yorkshire police primarily, then
:37:45. > :37:50.blamed the Liverpool fans for the majority of those 96 deaths. He
:37:50. > :37:55.said it was only right that they should be an apology. I think MPs
:37:55. > :37:59.were surprised at the degree to which the Prime Minister was
:37:59. > :38:03.forthright, and I think they appreciated the tone he took. Bear
:38:03. > :38:06.in mind that this has been going on for 23 years. Many people in
:38:06. > :38:10.Liverpool feel that they have never really had the information that
:38:10. > :38:16.they wanted. I think today they will feel that they have got a lot
:38:16. > :38:21.more information. Just one example from the report - David Cameron
:38:21. > :38:27.said that of 164 statements made by officers of South Yorkshire Police,
:38:27. > :38:32.it appears that 116 of those statements in some way had been
:38:32. > :38:35.altered to take out criticism of South Yorkshire police. The Prime
:38:35. > :38:39.Minister said the Attorney-General would now be considering the
:38:39. > :38:44.evidence to perhaps decide whether a High Court application ought to
:38:44. > :38:48.be made to set aside the verdict at the original inquest. An emotional
:38:48. > :38:52.day here at Westminster, particularly for MPs in the north-
:38:52. > :38:58.west of England, and a day when the Prime Minister has come out very
:38:58. > :39:04.frankly and apologised for what a previous administration, indeed
:39:04. > :39:09.previous administrations, had done. The mood was a bit different in
:39:09. > :39:14.PMQs. The unemployment figures are looking a bit better, but the Prime
:39:14. > :39:18.Minister said he still felt the long-term figures disturbing.
:39:18. > :39:22.in the UK, unemployment has come down, although in Scotland, as we
:39:22. > :39:27.know, it is going back up again. The Prime Minister is clear that
:39:27. > :39:30.whatever else he does, whatever initiatives you may do, it is the
:39:30. > :39:33.economy that he and his coalition government are going to be judged
:39:33. > :39:37.on. He came into power saying they were going to reduce the debt and
:39:37. > :39:41.get the economy back on to an even keel. He knows as long as
:39:41. > :39:46.unemployment remains high, there will be a very real problem for him
:39:46. > :39:53.trying to sell a good story on the economy. Looking at another story
:39:53. > :40:01.which is breaking from the House of Commons this afternoon, the West
:40:01. > :40:06.Coast Main Line franchise, and the new Transport Secretary, Patrick
:40:06. > :40:09.McLoughlan, has some news on that. Yes, he has been appearing before
:40:09. > :40:13.the transport select committee this afternoon. He was asked at the
:40:13. > :40:16.beginning of the hearing what he thought about the controversy over
:40:16. > :40:19.the West Coast Main Line. He has given every indication that he
:40:19. > :40:23.believes the contract the Government has negotiated with
:40:23. > :40:27.first group, to take over from Virgin, is OK. He says he sees no
:40:27. > :40:31.reason not to proceed with that, and that is exactly what he intends
:40:31. > :40:35.to do. MPs will get a chance to debate the matter early next week
:40:35. > :40:39.in the House of Commons. As far as Patrick McLoughlan is concerned, he
:40:39. > :40:44.sees everything as being above board, despite the legal action
:40:44. > :40:50.launched by Virgin Trains. He says he intends to go ahead and sign the
:40:50. > :41:00.contract when he can. In future, the West Coast Main Line will be
:41:00. > :41:01.
:41:01. > :41:05.run by a FirstGroup, and not Virgin Trains. And Richard Branson was
:41:05. > :41:09.appearing before the committee on Monday. Yes, and he said the award
:41:09. > :41:15.of the contract was, in his words, preposterous. He said due diligence
:41:15. > :41:19.had not been done. As far as he was concerned, he said Virgin were
:41:19. > :41:22.fighting it hard because it is a highly profitable railway. It has
:41:22. > :41:27.produced huge profits for them since they have been running it in
:41:27. > :41:31.1997. They genuinely believe that as the contract is framed, that
:41:31. > :41:36.First will not be able to pay the rent, if you like, back to the
:41:36. > :41:39.government, that they have said they will be able to. First Group
:41:39. > :41:43.maintain they will be able to do that. But this is a crucial part of
:41:43. > :41:47.Great Britain's railway structure. Whoever gets it right can earn a
:41:47. > :41:54.lot of money. If they get it wrong, they could be real problems for
:41:54. > :41:57.everybody concerned.. Let's get some final thoughts in
:41:57. > :42:03.this programme in the company of this afternoon's political
:42:03. > :42:07.commentator, Angus Macleod. It was interesting, the way that Mr
:42:07. > :42:12.Cameron made that heartfelt apology to the families of the victims of
:42:12. > :42:15.Hillsborough. Is he trying to clear up the mistakes of the
:42:15. > :42:24.establishment in the past? I think Prime Minister's sometimes have a
:42:25. > :42:27.duty to do this. -- Prime Ministers. So I sometimes hear about, why do
:42:27. > :42:31.Prime Ministers always apologise? But in the case of Bloody Sunday,
:42:31. > :42:35.and Hillsborough, there is now clear evidence that the truth at
:42:35. > :42:39.the time did not come out. Certainly if you look at the
:42:40. > :42:42.substantial body of evidence, referred to by David Porter, you
:42:43. > :42:47.have to use the term tampering, with some of the statements that
:42:47. > :42:52.were made at the time, then you have to say that the Prime Minister
:42:52. > :42:54.was duty bound to do so. Can I just say one other thing - sometimes
:42:54. > :42:59.there are tragedies like Hillsborough from which emerged
:42:59. > :43:06.good things. If you look at how football crowds are conducted now,
:43:06. > :43:12.I suppose really, that has been down to the terrible tragedy of
:43:12. > :43:16.Hills Road, and, around the same time, the fire at Bradford City. --
:43:16. > :43:20.the tragedy of Hillsborough. So, we have moved on, but we have not left
:43:20. > :43:24.it entirely in the past. The Prime Minister today was absolutely right
:43:24. > :43:32.to do what he did. Is the apology inspired by the coalition
:43:32. > :43:36.government, or is it just the timing? It depends on the colour of
:43:36. > :43:40.the -- I don't think it depends on the colour of the government, it
:43:40. > :43:44.depends when the report comes into the public domain. David Cameron
:43:44. > :43:49.today had absolutely no choice but to say what he did, and I think he
:43:49. > :43:53.did it with some grace. Let's finish on a lighter note, Andy
:43:53. > :43:56.Murray's spectacular victory in the US Open. Of course, MPs have been
:43:56. > :44:02.congratulating him in the House of Commons, and there has been an
:44:02. > :44:06.interesting debate once again about Scottish versus British, and the
:44:06. > :44:09.question of identity. Yes, and if you listen to many of the SNP
:44:09. > :44:14.people who have been asked to comment on this, they have avoided
:44:14. > :44:18.the issue. They have not started saying, he is Scottish. I got the
:44:18. > :44:22.distinct impression yesterday, at the height of the euphoria, that
:44:22. > :44:27.this whole argument had thankfully disappeared. Hopefully it is in the
:44:27. > :44:32.past. There is the man himself, I think that was an argument they
:44:32. > :44:37.were trying to get out from a couple of politicians on BBC Radio
:44:37. > :44:41.2 yesterday, but they were not playing the game. They were not,
:44:41. > :44:49.and congratulations both to the SNP politicians, who refused to be
:44:50. > :44:53.drawn into a trap. That's all we have got time for this week.