:00:21. > :00:25.Good afternoon and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up... The
:00:26. > :00:29.latest figures show the economy grew a little in the third quarter of
:00:30. > :00:36.last year that it is lagging the rest of the UK. Moray council is
:00:37. > :00:40.proposing to bring in a council tax freeze. Could this be the end of a
:00:41. > :00:44.flagship government policy. Here at Westminster the financial theme
:00:45. > :00:49.dominating with an SNP inspired debate on the economy. Should we be
:00:50. > :00:55.worried about bumps on the economic road ahead? Now, the economy in
:00:56. > :01:01.Scotland grew slightly between July and temper last year. The growth
:01:02. > :01:07.rate was 0.1%, across the years Scottish output increased by 1.7%,
:01:08. > :01:13.Scotland lagging behind the UK as a whole. Here's David Henderson. All
:01:14. > :01:16.tied up with nowhere to go. On the Cromarty Firth these rigs stand idle
:01:17. > :01:20.because of the falling price of North Sea oil. It's meant thousands
:01:21. > :01:25.of jobs lost across the industry and a hammer blow to the economy of the
:01:26. > :01:30.north-east. Obviously we have seen large-scale redundancies, starting
:01:31. > :01:35.with contract is and temporary staff. But this is starting to have
:01:36. > :01:40.a ripple impact through to full-time staff and local residents and we see
:01:41. > :01:45.across Scotland with companies who are in the supply chain, making
:01:46. > :01:50.redundancies. With oil money drying up the knock-on impact is obvious.
:01:51. > :01:53.This car dealership in Glasgow is doing well but others in the
:01:54. > :01:59.north-east are not so lucky. With new cars of the shopping list for
:02:00. > :02:04.many customers. The situation in Grampian has slowed down. It's a
:02:05. > :02:09.confidence issue, to be honest. What we have seen is a 10% reduction
:02:10. > :02:13.which is 2000 units, two and a half thousand units on the previous year.
:02:14. > :02:18.Scotland's oil and gas industry may have struggled this year but this
:02:19. > :02:23.high-technology firm has seen its business pick-up. Using virtual
:02:24. > :02:30.reality in everything from medical education to architecture. It's
:02:31. > :02:34.almost as if you can step through into the space. Enough firms like
:02:35. > :02:40.this are finding new work and new markets. That means Scotland's
:02:41. > :02:45.economy has grown, but only just. Moray Council could become the first
:02:46. > :02:49.local authority to bring the eight year freeze council tax. Councils
:02:50. > :02:53.are meant to discuss the possibility of doing so at a meeting this
:02:54. > :03:00.morning. Local government correspondent Julia McIver joins us.
:03:01. > :03:04.What exactly are they proposing? -- Jamie McIvor. To be clear, the
:03:05. > :03:08.decision will be taken at the Council meeting in February of the
:03:09. > :03:13.council said what it was looking at. It's looking at a very big increase
:03:14. > :03:20.in local council tax, a rise of 18%. That means that a typical household
:03:21. > :03:25.in Moray, a band D property would be facing a rise of around ?200 a year,
:03:26. > :03:29.the bill that the council was arguing that this is the only way of
:03:30. > :03:34.trying to stave off significant cuts. It argues that it will raise
:03:35. > :03:38.some ?5 million are sought by putting up the council tax and this,
:03:39. > :03:44.together with tapping into reserves, it believes this will help it meet a
:03:45. > :03:48.funding shortfall but this is obviously a very big proposed
:03:49. > :03:53.increase. It's a bit of a gamble for the council, would local voters be
:03:54. > :03:57.happy to pay that much more simply to avoid cuts? Or might some argue
:03:58. > :04:01.that there might be better ways of saving money and that the Scottish
:04:02. > :04:05.Government is doing the best it can to protect local government from
:04:06. > :04:09.what the Scottish Government calls the worst of the Westminster
:04:10. > :04:14.spending cuts. Yes, presumably one of the reasons they would have to
:04:15. > :04:19.put council tax up by so much is because they would face penalties,
:04:20. > :04:24.wouldn't they? That's right. The way the council tax freeze has worked,
:04:25. > :04:27.going back to 2007, is through something of a carrot and stick
:04:28. > :04:31.approach, the carrot was the promise of money from the Scottish
:04:32. > :04:35.Government to freeze the council tax, the stick, of course, that any
:04:36. > :04:38.council who wanted to put up the council tax would not get that
:04:39. > :04:42.government money and that would have led to any increase in the Council
:04:43. > :04:48.Tax Support being a significant one. That is why the proposed increase is
:04:49. > :04:51.as high as 18%, as far as Moray Council is concerned, that is the
:04:52. > :04:54.kind of level of rise you need to have before it actually makes any
:04:55. > :04:59.difference to the finances. If you put Council Tax Support by 10%, it
:05:00. > :05:04.might sound more palatable but the council leaders say that would put
:05:05. > :05:08.them in the night in a situation of charging people more but still
:05:09. > :05:14.making some cuts. They presumably are hoping to get some sort of posse
:05:15. > :05:19.together on this because I notice in Highland, some... The council there
:05:20. > :05:24.says it would like to do it too but it would like it if a fume or went
:05:25. > :05:30.along with us. It's obviously a difficult council for one council to
:05:31. > :05:33.be in because at 31 other councils continue with the council tax
:05:34. > :05:37.freeze, even though some of them may say they are under very low
:05:38. > :05:42.financial pressure, it wakes it hard for one council to go ahead with
:05:43. > :05:47.such a radical increase as this. You can imagine the potential something
:05:48. > :05:54.of a local rebellion by council taxpayers over this. I spoke a few
:05:55. > :05:59.other councils today and there are a few other non-SNP councils which are
:06:00. > :06:02.saying that they have not yet confirmed able freeze the council
:06:03. > :06:06.tax again in the coming year. Certainly, there is the possibility
:06:07. > :06:11.that Moray Council will not be alone but an interesting statement put out
:06:12. > :06:17.by the opposition SNP group on Highland Council. It's making the
:06:18. > :06:22.the point that island residents opposed the suggestion of a 10%
:06:23. > :06:27.council tax rise in a consultation carried out by Highland Council. It
:06:28. > :06:33.is going to be looking at bad idea in a few days time. That kind of
:06:34. > :06:37.suggests that any council that wants to put up the council tax by a
:06:38. > :06:41.significant amount, they are going to be taking a big gamble with local
:06:42. > :06:47.opinion. Thank you for that. My guest for this afternoon is the
:06:48. > :06:51.political editor Kieran Andrews. Not far from view, five, over the bridge
:06:52. > :06:57.from Dundee, they are thinking about this as well. They are indeed. It is
:06:58. > :07:01.a Labour council. Five last night discussed the possibility of putting
:07:02. > :07:07.council tax up by 7%, so not as much as we are seeing suggested elsewhere
:07:08. > :07:11.up north. But it is significant because it shows quite significant
:07:12. > :07:14.rebellion against the Scottish Government, this policy. It is
:07:15. > :07:18.costing council is potentially a year and a bit out from a local
:07:19. > :07:22.election and elected local government, it could potentially
:07:23. > :07:27.cost councillors votes, the jobs, the administration but they feel I
:07:28. > :07:31.did they need to do this to keep providing services after the cuts to
:07:32. > :07:38.budget from John Swinney and the Scottish Government or perhaps they
:07:39. > :07:40.think that... You know, they are heading for a collision course with
:07:41. > :07:44.the Scottish Government and they might actually gain credence from
:07:45. > :07:51.that. I wonder... These penalties they would have to pay... Are just
:07:52. > :07:55.there as a fact the moment. But Uzomah plea if a significant body of
:07:56. > :07:59.councils said we were going to put council tax up anyway and we think
:08:00. > :08:03.it unfair that we are being penalised, these penalties would
:08:04. > :08:08.suddenly become politically a bit of a hot potato? That is the gamble.
:08:09. > :08:14.Obviously these councils... You heard it are, they want everyone to
:08:15. > :08:18.come together to put treasure on the Scottish Government so they can say
:08:19. > :08:23.John Swinney is cutting your bin collections, harming your schools,
:08:24. > :08:27.they can make that sort of coin. The problem is there are a significant
:08:28. > :08:31.number of SNP councils who won't sign up to this, they will stick by
:08:32. > :08:36.the council tax because that's the policy. At most, you will get a
:08:37. > :08:40.handful of councils who will be prepared to put head above the
:08:41. > :08:46.parapet and go for that, it might pan out for them, they might win the
:08:47. > :08:51.battle through rhetoric but it's not without its risks. One of the
:08:52. > :08:58.interesting things, this is not one party, is it? Moray Council is I
:08:59. > :09:02.believe, Conservative, independent, Hal and is independent, Fife is
:09:03. > :09:07.considering switches, and that is a Labour council, the argument against
:09:08. > :09:11.the freeze has always been it's actually just a subsidy per the
:09:12. > :09:15.middle classes. Dressed up as a subsidy with a disadvantaged but
:09:16. > :09:18.that presumably is not the only argument being made if independence
:09:19. > :09:22.and conservatives are considering getting rid of it as well. It's
:09:23. > :09:30.interesting there is a Conservative lead counsel... Making it up,
:09:31. > :09:34.looking at ending the council tax freeze. Ruth Davidson is running on
:09:35. > :09:42.a low tax manifesto for the Holyrood election. It shows that there are
:09:43. > :09:45.challenging circumstances, for local government, it shows parties of all
:09:46. > :09:51.colours are prepared to take quite big steps to point that out. The big
:09:52. > :09:55.question is whether they can get round that or they can do in North
:09:56. > :09:59.that won't turn of folders, make people pay an extra ?200 a year,
:10:00. > :10:04.people haven't had to pay anything extra in council tax or almost ten
:10:05. > :10:10.years, it will be a big shock to the system for homeowners. Right...
:10:11. > :10:16.Now... Briefly, you imply from what you said a moment ago that the
:10:17. > :10:21.SNP... You wouldn't get any SNP councils readiness. For example, in
:10:22. > :10:26.Dundee they rules about... All right, we will come back to it. We
:10:27. > :10:30.want to go to Parliament cos the Dundee councillor Lesley Brennan is
:10:31. > :10:38.to be sworn in as a Labour M people. Here she is. I swear that I will be
:10:39. > :10:44.faithful and bear true allegiance... I swear that I will be faithful and
:10:45. > :10:49.bear true allegiance... To Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth, errors and
:10:50. > :10:51.successors according to law... To Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her
:10:52. > :10:56.heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God. So help me God.
:10:57. > :11:11.Thank you. Kieran, just briefly, finish on the
:11:12. > :11:14.last bit... Can you anticipate any SNP councils... Saying we don't
:11:15. > :11:21.care, we need the money. We will put up council tax. That is not what
:11:22. > :11:25.they do, they don't rebel. Lesley Brennan, isn't she said about Tony
:11:26. > :11:29.Blair, we don't want your money when Juve standing in the general
:11:30. > :11:33.election? She did indeed, you can see Kezia Dugdale in the back of the
:11:34. > :11:38.shot and she swore allegiance to the Queen. She has also publicly
:11:39. > :11:42.criticised Kezia Dugdale twice, once when she was running for deputy
:11:43. > :11:47.leadership, she said that would mean the Labour Party was doomed
:11:48. > :11:51.electorally, that seemed to pan out in the Westminster elections. But
:11:52. > :11:58.also recently, she described herself as being ambivalent towards her now
:11:59. > :12:02.leader. Right... She is an net gain for the left of the Scottish Labour
:12:03. > :12:08.Party. She is indeed. All right! Let's go back the chamber. Labour
:12:09. > :12:10.leading a debate on how the new Paris in the Scotland Bill can be
:12:11. > :12:19.used to tackle poverty and inequality. The deputy Labour leader
:12:20. > :12:23.Alex Rowley is speaking. I want to welcome Lesley to the
:12:24. > :12:27.chamber. I was thinking this morning that up until now, I think I was the
:12:28. > :12:30.newest member in this chamber and now... It is Lesley so
:12:31. > :12:36.congratulations. APPLAUSE
:12:37. > :12:45.Presiding officer, in the weeks and months ahead, in the lead up to the
:12:46. > :12:47.general election in May, I will in Scotland have a debate about the
:12:48. > :12:53.most pressing challenges and issues that we face in Scotland faces,
:12:54. > :12:56.moving forward. Today I have tabled a motion that speaks about the
:12:57. > :13:02.social and economic success or all of Scotland. My desire, my ambition,
:13:03. > :13:08.throughout by life has been to live in a society for we no longer have
:13:09. > :13:13.the haves and have-nots but instead, we have a society for everyone, no
:13:14. > :13:17.matter what family they are born into or what circumstances they are
:13:18. > :13:23.born into, they have an equal chance to achieve their full potential. A
:13:24. > :13:27.society where, if you are unable to work and provide for yourself, there
:13:28. > :13:31.is a Social Security system to support you with a minimum income
:13:32. > :13:36.and Society for, if you are able to work, you will work earn a fair pay
:13:37. > :13:42.and be treated with dignity and with respect in the workplace. I actually
:13:43. > :13:48.don't think that is an awful lot to ask for. Yet, in Scotland in 2016,
:13:49. > :13:52.we are far removed from that kind of society and despite what the Tories
:13:53. > :13:58.say here today, it's actually getting worse. And that is why we
:13:59. > :14:02.need a more open and honest debate about the state we are in. What
:14:03. > :14:07.needs to be done to bring about a more fair, more just and more equal
:14:08. > :14:12.Scotland. I don't have any objections with what has been tabled
:14:13. > :14:17.as an amendment on behalf of the government for the debate today,
:14:18. > :14:21.indeed, I remain proud that it was the Labour Party in Fife that rot
:14:22. > :14:26.about the free bus pass for pensioners, the first of any fur in
:14:27. > :14:33.the UK. And it was then a Labour Chancellor that ruled that policy
:14:34. > :14:38.out -- would the policy out across the UK. Labour in Fife brought about
:14:39. > :14:44.free nursery education for three and four-year-olds which is a massive to
:14:45. > :14:49.be tackling poverty. The Scottish Government now clearly recognises
:14:50. > :14:52.this to. While not disagreeing with the measures outlined by the
:14:53. > :14:57.government, some brought about ID SNP and some by Labour, I would have
:14:58. > :15:03.to say that on their own, these measures are not going to create a
:15:04. > :15:08.fairer society that we all want. Indeed, despite the measures being
:15:09. > :15:12.in place, for many families, particularly families on low fixed
:15:13. > :15:18.incomes, are getting worse. I would say today, that there is a
:15:19. > :15:24.legitimate abate to be had about how we target resources to reach those
:15:25. > :15:30.in the greatest need. -- debate. The qualities or has flagged up issues
:15:31. > :15:35.about universalism and I hope moving forward in Scotland we can have a
:15:36. > :15:40.debate and be able to look at matters like this in an open, honest
:15:41. > :15:44.and transparent way. But for now, let me give you an example of a
:15:45. > :15:51.family Centre in Kirkaldy. Five years ago at Christmas the Cottage
:15:52. > :15:59.provided Christmas parcels for 100 children. In 2014, it was 500, this
:16:00. > :16:03.Christmas it had risen to 700 children... 780 children, nearly
:16:04. > :16:08.twice as many children as five years ago needing help Christmas. Contrast
:16:09. > :16:12.to five years ago, when the need was for extras for toys for the kids,
:16:13. > :16:17.that families could not afford, this year the urgent need was for basics,
:16:18. > :16:23.food that families could not afford to put on the table at Christmas. So
:16:24. > :16:27.the suggestion from the Tories in their amendment today that levels of
:16:28. > :16:33.poverty or at historically low levels, that is simply not the case.
:16:34. > :16:39.Whilst I... On the subject of the Tories... The proposal put forward
:16:40. > :16:42.by the Prime Minister yesterday that families should be in courage to to
:16:43. > :16:47.save money in a bid to tackle poverty shows just how out of touch
:16:48. > :16:57.these people are with real life. Nanette Milne. Well... A little
:16:58. > :17:10.while ago our correspondent Andrew care spoke to MSson the economy and
:17:11. > :17:18.GDP figures. Lots on the agenda today at Holyrood. I am joined by
:17:19. > :17:21.three MSPs, Linda Fabiani from the SNP, Liam McArthur from the Scottish
:17:22. > :17:25.Liberal Democrats and Lewis Macdonald from Scottish Labour.
:17:26. > :17:36.Welcome. Let's start at the GDP figures, 0.1% gross output, Linda,
:17:37. > :17:40.not great figures. Well, that is the latest quarter that it references
:17:41. > :17:44.for, they don't look great but why we should never get complacent, it's
:17:45. > :17:49.always better to look at it over the longer term and if you look over the
:17:50. > :17:51.last three years, Scotland is keeping up there and performing
:17:52. > :17:57.rather well. Look at the construction sector in the longer
:17:58. > :18:01.term, we have issues, of course, we know about the troubles in the
:18:02. > :18:04.North, North Sea oil, BP announcement yesterday but it's
:18:05. > :18:09.essential we carry on with infrastructure worked, try and boost
:18:10. > :18:13.apprenticeships, try and help the oil industry as much as we can and
:18:14. > :18:17.help construction work because that's how we keep the figures going
:18:18. > :18:20.up. The Scottish Government is quick to blame the UK Government when
:18:21. > :18:25.things go wrong but when things are better due could to take the credit?
:18:26. > :18:29.I don't think that's true, for we are at the moment is a case of
:18:30. > :18:34.everyone working together because we share these islands. Our fortunes
:18:35. > :18:36.are in some way dependent on each other, regardless of the
:18:37. > :18:40.constitutional setup so it's important we lived together,
:18:41. > :18:46.articulate in the North Sea and Aberdeen. Liam, 12 quarters in a row
:18:47. > :18:54.of growth, this is the longest since revolution? It's a pretty good
:18:55. > :18:57.record. A fair point to make to Linda that we have seen the SNP
:18:58. > :19:01.being quick to claim credit when things are on the up and distance
:19:02. > :19:05.themselves, blamed the UK Government when things are not so rosy but
:19:06. > :19:09.what's interesting, as you pointed out, the rate of growth and the rest
:19:10. > :19:14.of the UK is now outstripping that of Scotland, that is a concern. I
:19:15. > :19:18.think Linda is right to say we need to look at the long-term, invest in
:19:19. > :19:23.infrastructure but is something here for the Scottish Government, they
:19:24. > :19:26.need to broaden the base of economic performance and ensure that the
:19:27. > :19:30.performance in terms of business start-ups is improved. That's an
:19:31. > :19:36.area I think the Scottish Government has fallen down. What more can they
:19:37. > :19:42.do? You talk about investment... The Scottish Government sees its budget
:19:43. > :19:44.being cut? I agree the issue in relation to capital... And everyone
:19:45. > :19:49.except that in terms of long-term growth, that's what I'm saying...
:19:50. > :19:53.Broadening the base of growth, I have seen over a period we have
:19:54. > :19:57.fallen back in this quarter, to see an improvement in the business
:19:58. > :20:00.start-ups, a range of things that the Scottish Government can do in
:20:01. > :20:05.that respect but I think rather than draw, from what has happened over
:20:06. > :20:09.the last three years and perhaps claim credit for previously they
:20:10. > :20:13.distance themselves, it's an opportunity for the Scottish
:20:14. > :20:16.Government to think again about how it is encouraging and stimulating
:20:17. > :20:22.the small business growth. Lewis met Donald, perhaps it's not a bag had
:20:23. > :20:26.record when using of what's happening in the North Sea. I'm
:20:27. > :20:29.always in favour of taking an historical perspective but we need
:20:30. > :20:34.to address for your now, second quarter in a row for growth has been
:20:35. > :20:36.a Birtley invisible, it's taken a year of the Scottish Government to
:20:37. > :20:40.accept the seriousness of the oil jobs crisis and what that means for
:20:41. > :20:45.the wider Scottish economy. We are seeing that feeding through with
:20:46. > :20:49.growth figures of 0.1%, I fear the next quarter will be worse and as I
:20:50. > :20:52.say, I am pleased they have recognised the extent of the crisis
:20:53. > :20:55.but it's taken an awful long time and we don't be what further
:20:56. > :21:00.economic damage has been done in the last four months. Do you think 2016
:21:01. > :21:04.could be a year of crisis that the North Sea industry? Oil companies
:21:05. > :21:08.hedging their prices at a higher level, of course, we are seeing
:21:09. > :21:13.dollar per barrel price coming down and down and that, as time goes on,
:21:14. > :21:16.would mean bad news for workers. We are already clearly in a very
:21:17. > :21:21.critical situation and then oil prices were around $50 mark a couple
:21:22. > :21:26.of months ago people said we need to learn to live with your prices are
:21:27. > :21:30.longer, $50 seems like halcyon days compared with four we are now, the
:21:31. > :21:34.price hovering around $30. If it goes much lower the impact on the
:21:35. > :21:39.whole sector will be very large indeed. Oil fields which are
:21:40. > :21:42.currently producing at a loss will become enormously loss-making and
:21:43. > :21:48.that is obviously... It has indications. The Scottish Government
:21:49. > :21:51.has stewardship for the wider Scottish economy and that has to
:21:52. > :21:55.take these matters seriously, not just Aberdeen, the north-east and
:21:56. > :21:59.offshore at the knock-on effects on manufacturing and other sectors.
:22:00. > :22:04.Linda, we could be looking at a serious crisis for the North Sea oil
:22:05. > :22:08.industry. One of your MSPshad to apologise after alluding to the fact
:22:09. > :22:12.he was saying it wasn't perhaps a crisis but what can the Scottish
:22:13. > :22:15.Government do to be able to help people in the industry and as you
:22:16. > :22:20.say, you have to work with the UK Government? Yes, a task force was
:22:21. > :22:24.set up, I think the first meeting of that was a year ago and I heard a
:22:25. > :22:29.representative from Aberdeen on this morning calling for another major
:22:30. > :22:33.summit on that and I'm sure that is considered by the government. It is
:22:34. > :22:37.the effect right through the economy, not just spending power,
:22:38. > :22:42.it's about associated companies with the oil industry and yes, looking at
:22:43. > :22:45.small businesses and start-ups as mentioned is extremely important. I
:22:46. > :22:49.actually believe the Scottish Government has a good record on
:22:50. > :22:52.that, looking at the enterprise sector, trying to make it work for
:22:53. > :22:56.those who want to set up in business and we are all working hard for
:22:57. > :23:00.that. But it's not just about working with the UK, it's about all
:23:01. > :23:04.of us in this parliament working closely together. I think there is
:23:05. > :23:09.wreckage Ishant that's what we have to do because this is a serious
:23:10. > :23:14.situation. Liam, as was pointed out it can affect the wider economy and
:23:15. > :23:18.constituents are involved in the industry and the associated
:23:19. > :23:22.industries? Absolutely. I was at an oil terminal at the end of last year
:23:23. > :23:25.and there is no doubt there is concern about what is happening in
:23:26. > :23:31.the wider sector, it was Berry much present in those discussions. We
:23:32. > :23:35.have already been through a period of significant job losses, each time
:23:36. > :23:41.you predict that the price of oil cannot rob further it goes ahead and
:23:42. > :23:45.does that. I think it was concerning to hear some within the SNP, by no
:23:46. > :23:48.means all, seemingly dismissing the crisis, I think there is a joint
:23:49. > :23:52.effort tween the Scottish Government at the UK Government to address this
:23:53. > :23:57.but nevertheless, the challenges facing the sector at the moment
:23:58. > :24:03.cannot be underestimated. Let's move on to the other issue, Moray Council
:24:04. > :24:07.suggesting an 18% rise in council tax, 5 million funding cut from the
:24:08. > :24:10.Scottish Government, ?150,000 penalty from the Scottish Government
:24:11. > :24:15.for not keeping up teacher numbers. Linda, having to take drastic action
:24:16. > :24:20.because of Scottish Government action? First of all, can we be
:24:21. > :24:24.playing, the council tax freeze is funded and look at the independent
:24:25. > :24:27.research Harry died by the parliament research Centre it says
:24:28. > :24:31.it's more than funded to try and blame the Scottish Government Fernie
:24:32. > :24:37.to raise the council tax which is only 12 or 13% of overall government
:24:38. > :24:43.expenditure, I think is a bit of a bizarre situation for the council to
:24:44. > :24:48.take. It's up to councils to look at what is best for their area. I don't
:24:49. > :24:54.know Moray Council that well but I am sure a rise in council tax won't
:24:55. > :24:58.help hard pushed households. There is more debate about whether this
:24:59. > :25:04.will grow through -- go through. As Linda pointed out, the council tax
:25:05. > :25:08.is fully funded. We see a combination of a number of things,
:25:09. > :25:13.teacher numbers guaranteeing that the Scottish Government is insisting
:25:14. > :25:18.on penalties, that is not met by one teacher. The penalties incurred are
:25:19. > :25:23.significant and it requires councils to look seriously at the teacher
:25:24. > :25:28.recruit. That, alongside a council tax freeze that's been in place for
:25:29. > :25:32.nine years, initially it was there for a transition to a local income
:25:33. > :25:37.tax which the SNP government abandoned, creating a squeeze and on
:25:38. > :25:48.top of that ECA ?500 million cut budgets. -- we see. Moray Council is
:25:49. > :25:51.finding itself in a position where it has to raise additional revenue
:25:52. > :25:56.or cut services and Scotland to such an extent that they can't cut any
:25:57. > :26:01.further. I think other councils are looking very seriously at making a
:26:02. > :26:05.similar move. Lewis, what is the solution, the Labour solution to
:26:06. > :26:13.this? We aren't clear about what the Labour Party is suggesting when it
:26:14. > :26:17.comes to council tax increases. Of course, I am sure you would love me
:26:18. > :26:22.to announce that live on this programme but sadly, that is not
:26:23. > :26:26.something that will happen, it'll come in the next few weeks but all
:26:27. > :26:28.parties agree that the system currently operating needs reform,
:26:29. > :26:33.the question is what, there have been lively discussions on local
:26:34. > :26:36.government taxation and the commission are not in labour has
:26:37. > :26:40.played a full part in that. Watch this space for a bigger solution but
:26:41. > :26:44.I think it's important to highlight the issue that Moray Council has
:26:45. > :26:47.come up against because how can it be right for the Scottish Government
:26:48. > :26:52.to penalised those very councils which are trying very hard to
:26:53. > :26:56.recruit teachers and finding it hard? Aberdeen City Council convened
:26:57. > :26:59.a summit of the councils in the North of Scotland which are all
:27:00. > :27:02.facing the same issue, it's not about politics or management of the
:27:03. > :27:06.particular councils, it's about the challenge of recruiting teachers,
:27:07. > :27:09.work in the north of Scotland. How can it be right that the Scottish
:27:10. > :27:13.Government penalises those councils which are finding it hard is by
:27:14. > :27:17.taking away some of the money which they might use to incentivise people
:27:18. > :27:20.to come and work in the area? It's completely perverse in that area,
:27:21. > :27:23.the Scottish Government to do a U-turn, acknowledged it is punishing
:27:24. > :27:30.people for trying their best and do something more constructive. You
:27:31. > :27:36.three, we will have to leave it there, thank you all very much.
:27:37. > :27:39.Gordon, with that, it is back to you in the studio.
:27:40. > :27:43.Let's go straight back to the chamber for more of the debate on
:27:44. > :27:46.poverty and inequality. Labour putting forward a motion committing
:27:47. > :27:49.the Parliament to using the new powers in the Scotland Bill to
:27:50. > :28:00.improve social and economic conditions. In absolute and relative
:28:01. > :28:03.terms. Of course, after 66, the July measures, it has been downhill for
:28:04. > :28:09.the last 50 years, ever since. Starting with Harold Wilson, then
:28:10. > :28:13.Jim Callaghan, then Ted Heath and all the rest. But the point,
:28:14. > :28:18.presiding officer is this... The fundamental point of principle put
:28:19. > :28:23.forward by Alex Rowley is absolutely right, the best way, the only way to
:28:24. > :28:30.really solve the problem of poverty and inequality is through full
:28:31. > :28:34.employment. Not just in terms of everybody who is fit and able to
:28:35. > :28:39.work actually having a job, but having a good and well paid job as
:28:40. > :28:46.well. That is an ambition that we share with Alex Rowley and that is
:28:47. > :28:49.why so much emphasis of this government has been to put economic
:28:50. > :28:57.growth and sustainability at the top of the agenda since the day we were
:28:58. > :29:00.elected in 2007. It is quite noticeable, presiding officer, the
:29:01. > :29:04.GDP figures announced this morning, that we are dealing against the odds
:29:05. > :29:08.with the difficulties in the oil industry and facing the austerity
:29:09. > :29:11.policies coming from London, we are still able to grow the Scottish
:29:12. > :29:17.economy and the reason we are still able to grow it is that we have
:29:18. > :29:21.deliberately targeted a massive increase in capital investment in
:29:22. > :29:26.Scotland, so that we could create and maintain the good jobs that we
:29:27. > :29:31.have. If you look at housing, for example. The fact of life is that
:29:32. > :29:36.compared to the first eight years of the Parliament, the housing record
:29:37. > :29:41.in the last nine years has been absolutely outstanding. We are
:29:42. > :29:46.building about 5000 council houses compared to six in the last year of
:29:47. > :29:50.the previous administration. And if you look at the total number of
:29:51. > :29:56.houses completed, we have exceeded 30,000 figure and we will build
:29:57. > :30:02.another 50,000, at least, over the next five years. The reasons why
:30:03. > :30:06.housing is so important, presiding officer, is just... I will in a
:30:07. > :30:11.minute... Not just in relation to the need for housing and that is
:30:12. > :30:13.absolutely, we totally agree, has to be a top priority for this
:30:14. > :30:23.Parliament and the next government as well. But as we know, good,
:30:24. > :30:29.decent housing is a prerequisite to eliminating and reducing poverty.
:30:30. > :30:33.Good, decent housing is essential to achieving educational attainment.
:30:34. > :30:38.Good, decent housing is essential to improving the health of the nation.
:30:39. > :30:46.Housing ticks every box in terms of being good policy, which is why we
:30:47. > :30:54.have set aside over ?3 billion over the next five years to build 50,000,
:30:55. > :31:03.at least 50,000 new affordable houses. I was surprised that he was
:31:04. > :31:06.claiming the GDP figures as a success story, because Scotland is
:31:07. > :31:15.lagging behind the rest of the UK both in the annual figures and over
:31:16. > :31:18.the period. Presiding officer, I did say that the GDP figures were a
:31:19. > :31:22.success given the state of the oil industry and given the impact of the
:31:23. > :31:27.austerity measures implemented by a government which he supported and
:31:28. > :31:34.more recently, the Budget introduced by Osborne last year. Frankly, if we
:31:35. > :31:39.hadn't been here, implementing our economic policy and spending the
:31:40. > :31:45.money we are spending on capital programmes including through the
:31:46. > :31:49.Scottish futures trust, the GDP figures would not have shown any
:31:50. > :31:56.growth at all. If the member cares to look at the analysis within the
:31:57. > :32:01.GDP figures, while there was some growth most recently, the real
:32:02. > :32:04.growth sector was in construction. That construction growth is coming
:32:05. > :32:16.from our investment in a new bridge over the the Forth, our investment
:32:17. > :32:20.in 30,000 new houses, our investment in railway. All of that is due to
:32:21. > :32:26.our investment in construction on the jobs that are brought with it.
:32:27. > :32:31.Not only does that contribute to a much higher level of employment and
:32:32. > :32:38.growth than otherwise would be the case, it also contributes to keeping
:32:39. > :32:41.poverty and inequality at a lower level than it otherwise would be,
:32:42. > :32:44.because Alec Crowley is right. BBC Scotland has learned
:32:45. > :32:47.the Scottish Government is facing the threat of court action if it
:32:48. > :32:50.fails to tackle illegal levels of air pollution in
:32:51. > :32:52.the country's biggest cities. The warning comes from
:32:53. > :32:55.the environmental law group, It's already won a landmark
:32:56. > :32:58.ruling against the UK Here's our environment
:32:59. > :33:09.correspondent, David Miller: Air pollution is blamed for around
:33:10. > :33:17.2000 premature deaths in Scotland each year. It mainly comes from road
:33:18. > :33:21.traffic. Nitric oxide, nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide are just
:33:22. > :33:26.some of the gases which make up the mix. Then there are tiny particles
:33:27. > :33:30.produced by diesel engines. The more scientists learn about their impact
:33:31. > :33:35.on our health, the more worried they become. Pollution levels are
:33:36. > :33:39.constantly monitored. They have fallen in recent decades, but
:33:40. > :33:44.experts say our love of the car means that drop has stalled. We know
:33:45. > :33:48.more about air pollution these days, so we know the health effects. While
:33:49. > :33:54.it is not at the same level it was it 30 or 40 years ago, people still
:33:55. > :33:59.die and have shortened life expectancy due to Apple. Any
:34:00. > :34:03.additional death or any life lost is avoidable -- Q2 air pollution.
:34:04. > :34:07.Campaigners are now warning that they may mount a legal challenge to
:34:08. > :34:12.the Scottish Government's track record. We are particularly
:34:13. > :34:18.concerned that some parts of the UK, cities in England are getting clean
:34:19. > :34:20.air zones. But other cities in Scotland will not. Environment
:34:21. > :34:25.minister Doctor Ellie McCann has defended Scotland's record. -- Dr
:34:26. > :34:36.Aileen McLeod. Meanwhile, one veteran anti-motorway
:34:37. > :34:39.campaign has warned that Scotland is in danger of repeating the mistakes
:34:40. > :34:46.of the past. Rosie fought against the construction of the M77 in
:34:47. > :34:53.Glasgow. You have to scream to be heard. Obviously invisible
:34:54. > :34:58.pollution. There is a school there. There are plenty of schools and
:34:59. > :35:00.nurseries around. So there are ongoing effects which will always be
:35:01. > :35:13.around. Let's breathe our way through the
:35:14. > :35:20.pollution and go back to the debate we were just watching. Do you think
:35:21. > :35:23.Alex Neil was seriously intending to suggest that the Scottish economy
:35:24. > :35:27.would be in recession if not for the fact that his government had built a
:35:28. > :35:36.few houses? That was what he seemed to be in to mating. Despite the fact
:35:37. > :35:41.that the UK economy is growing at a higher rate than Scotland, Alec Neil
:35:42. > :35:45.seemed to suggest that the SNP's public spending is all that is
:35:46. > :35:56.keeping Scotland out of recession. It is an extraordinary claim. Nicola
:35:57. > :36:00.Sturgeon admitted that we do have an oil crisis yesterday. If it is
:36:01. > :36:04.hitting us that badly, it is not something to be complacent about in
:36:05. > :36:13.terms of building houses and it will be fine. I am sure he was trying to
:36:14. > :36:16.talk his party up and say his government had been helpful, but if
:36:17. > :36:20.it really is the case that the private sector in Scotland is in
:36:21. > :36:29.recession and the Scottish economy is relying on public money to keep
:36:30. > :36:34.itself growing, that is alarming. If that is the case, I am sure we would
:36:35. > :36:40.hear from businesses. It is a great worry if businesses are in such a
:36:41. > :36:46.state that the private sector is relying on public money. It is not
:36:47. > :36:51.sustainable and can only go on for so long, as we have seen with
:36:52. > :36:56.previous economic problems. It is not something to boast about, I
:36:57. > :37:00.would suggest. Let's be fair to him, perhaps that was not what he meant
:37:01. > :37:03.to suggest. On the other hand, he was at least saying something
:37:04. > :37:12.specific. We were watching some of that debate, and you just make
:37:13. > :37:16.grandiose claims, no one says anything specific. Something needs
:37:17. > :37:20.to be done, but nobody knows what to do, seems to be the message we are
:37:21. > :37:25.getting from all parties of all colours and stripes. It is usually
:37:26. > :37:30.someone else's fault as well. When we see good news, the SNP are happy
:37:31. > :37:33.to take the credit. And there will be lots of credit due to the
:37:34. > :37:36.Scottish Government and due to initiatives to help improve the
:37:37. > :37:39.economy. When things are bad, it is always the fault of the UK
:37:40. > :37:43.Government. It is the same from the opposition as well. When things are
:37:44. > :37:52.tough, you blame who is in power and when things are good, you say we
:37:53. > :37:55.thought of that as well. And is it okayed to say that the fact that the
:37:56. > :38:01.Scottish Government has grown by 0.1% down to building a few houses,
:38:02. > :38:09.and the rest of the fault of George Osborne? In his defence, we know the
:38:10. > :38:13.state of the oil industry. We know the difficulties the economy is
:38:14. > :38:17.facing, particularly the disproportionate effect the oil
:38:18. > :38:23.industry will have an Scotland. They are very difficult market
:38:24. > :38:26.conditions. But it will be fine, because we are going to have a
:38:27. > :38:29.summit about it. Which will in no way just be hot air(!).
:38:30. > :38:32.The Finance secretary John Swinney has insisted there's no need
:38:33. > :38:34.for local authorities to wait until the end of March before making
:38:35. > :38:38.At the weekend the Government announced funding for a grant
:38:39. > :38:42.business or charity directly affected by flood water.
:38:43. > :38:44.Yesterday opposition politicians raised concerns about the length
:38:45. > :38:47.of time councils are having to wait to receive the cash,
:38:48. > :38:52.among them the Conservative MSP, Alex Fergusson.
:38:53. > :38:58.Can the deputy for the minister confirm that the funding he
:38:59. > :39:02.announced on the 16th of December will not be made available to local
:39:03. > :39:10.councils till the end of March, and if that is the case, were he
:39:11. > :39:15.fast-track it? First of all, I have seen a bit of traffic over the
:39:16. > :39:21.course of the last two days that the money I announced in December will
:39:22. > :39:26.not be available until March. I suspect that has come from the
:39:27. > :39:30.letter that was issued on the 17th of December to local authorities,
:39:31. > :39:39.which implied that the money would be paid out in the last two weeks of
:39:40. > :39:45.March 2016. If this is the source of this particular piece of poorly
:39:46. > :39:49.analysed information, it doesn't say much about the knowledge of local
:39:50. > :39:53.government finance determinations, because on a constant basis,
:39:54. > :39:57.ministers make announcements in this Parliament, and the statutory
:39:58. > :40:02.allocation of the money, the Parliamentary approval might not
:40:03. > :40:05.come until a reach termination order at the end of March, but it doesn't
:40:06. > :40:12.stop local authorities spending the money. So there is no issue about
:40:13. > :40:16.local authorities having to wait until the end of March for their
:40:17. > :40:21.money. I have announced in Parliament that the money is coming.
:40:22. > :40:25.If that is not good enough for a local authority, the whole system of
:40:26. > :40:28.local government finance, in every other respect, because I have a list
:40:29. > :40:32.of different other schemes here, whether it is the council tax
:40:33. > :40:35.reduction scheme or the teachers' induction scheme or the free school
:40:36. > :40:39.meals or the looked after children policy or the discretionary housing
:40:40. > :40:43.payment system, all of which were paid out to local authorities by the
:40:44. > :40:47.same means, and it didn't stop local authorities paying out their money.
:40:48. > :40:51.So I don't know what people are thinking about on this point. It was
:40:52. > :40:54.interesting that the Cabinet Secretary repeated the assertion
:40:55. > :40:58.that councils should pay out now. I would suggest that instead of asking
:40:59. > :41:03.cash-strapped councils to make payments on the basis of an idea you
:41:04. > :41:08.from the Scottish Government, that the Scottish Government should make
:41:09. > :41:10.payments as soon as possible to councils to assist them in assisting
:41:11. > :41:22.hard-pressed households and local businesses. I am really at a loss
:41:23. > :41:26.here. Order! Dr Murray is a former minister of the Scottish Government
:41:27. > :41:35.who knows how local authority finance works. Every week, we pay
:41:36. > :41:38.money to local authorities. Every week, a cash payment is made by the
:41:39. > :41:43.government to local authorities. If Dr Murray is try to say to me that
:41:44. > :41:48.Dumfries and Galloway cancer is so hard-pressed that they can't find
:41:49. > :41:51.?1500 this week to pay out to somebody because they have no other
:41:52. > :41:55.money available, local authorities are sitting on ?1.8 billion of cash
:41:56. > :42:02.reserves that can be used to support cash management. And they know fine
:42:03. > :42:06.well that it is not an IOU, they know fine well I have given a
:42:07. > :42:11.commitment that that money will be paid. Dumfries and Galloway Council
:42:12. > :42:16.should just pay up to the people we have allocated the money and stop
:42:17. > :42:17.finding excuses. A very angry John Swinney.
:42:18. > :42:20.The Prime Minister has come under attack about his plans for tackling
:42:21. > :42:24.In the House of Commons this morning, Mr Cameron refused
:42:25. > :42:26.to guarantee that people who live on "sink estates" will be able
:42:27. > :42:29.to return to their old communities after they are bulldozed under
:42:30. > :42:33.The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn told him that he didn't understand
:42:34. > :42:36.the concerns of council tenants and those on estates who would be
:42:37. > :42:43."forced away" from their communities.
:42:44. > :42:51.Mr Speaker, I notice the Prime Minister did not give any guaranteed
:42:52. > :42:54.to leaseholders on estates. So there is another, probably larger group on
:42:55. > :43:01.most estates that I have a question to ask him on behalf of. A tenant by
:43:02. > :43:06.the name of Daryl says, will the Prime Minister guaranty that all
:43:07. > :43:12.existing tenants of the council estates in marked for redevelopment
:43:13. > :43:15.will be rehoused in new council housing in their current
:43:16. > :43:22.communities, with the same tenancy conditions as they currently have?
:43:23. > :43:26.We are not going to be able to deal with these sink estates unless we
:43:27. > :43:31.get the agreement of tenants, unless we show how we are going to support
:43:32. > :43:37.homeowners, unless we show how we will support communities. Isn't it
:43:38. > :43:40.interesting, Mr Speaker? Who here is the small see conservative who is
:43:41. > :43:43.saying to people, stay stuck in your sink estates, have nothing better
:43:44. > :43:49.than what Labour gave you have to the war's we are saying if you are a
:43:50. > :43:53.tenant, have the right to buy. If you want to buy a home, here is help
:43:54. > :43:59.to save. If you are in a single speck, we will help you out. That is
:44:00. > :44:03.politics today. A party on this side of the House that wants to give
:44:04. > :44:07.people life chances, and a Labour opposition that says stay stuck in
:44:08. > :44:10.poverty. The economic and intellectual contribution of college
:44:11. > :44:17.and university graduates to the UK is immense. The Smith commission
:44:18. > :44:21.said the UK and Scottish governors should "Work together to explore the
:44:22. > :44:24.possibility of introducing formal schemes to allow international
:44:25. > :44:28.higher education students but you're a tin from Scottish further and
:44:29. > :44:32.higher education institutions to remain in Scotland and contribute to
:44:33. > :44:37.economic activity for a defined period of time". Why did the UK
:44:38. > :44:43.Government this week unilaterally rule out a return of a post-study
:44:44. > :44:47.work visa without stakeholder discussions and before key
:44:48. > :44:51.Parliamentary reports? We have an excellent scheme that covers
:44:52. > :44:57.Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and it is this, to
:44:58. > :45:00.say to the world students that there is no limit on the number of people
:45:01. > :45:04.that can come and study in British universities as long as they have
:45:05. > :45:08.two things, an English language litigation and a place at that
:45:09. > :45:11.university. It is a generous and open offer. The second thing we
:45:12. > :45:15.offer is that there is no limit on the number of people who can stay
:45:16. > :45:19.after they have graduated, as long as they have a graduate-level job.
:45:20. > :45:26.Again, that is a clear message that all of us, whether we are involved
:45:27. > :45:28.in the Scottish gunman, the Northern Ireland administration, the Welsh
:45:29. > :45:31.administration or the UK ad administration, should get out and
:45:32. > :45:35.sell around the world. It is a world beating offer. We want the world's
:45:36. > :45:42.brightest graduates to come and study here and then work here. What
:45:43. > :45:47.a great deal. The return of post study visas is supported by a month
:45:48. > :45:51.others, all of Scotland's 's 25 publicly funded colleges, the
:45:52. > :45:56.College of Scotland, the university of Scotland, the representative body
:45:57. > :45:59.of Scotland's 19 higher education institutions, many other
:46:00. > :46:02.organisations and businesses and/or parties including the Scottish
:46:03. > :46:06.Conservative Party. So why does the Prime Minister think that they are
:46:07. > :46:10.all wrong and he is right? For the reason I have given, which is that
:46:11. > :46:17.the clarity of our offer is world beating. The disadvantage of
:46:18. > :46:21.inventing a new post work-study route where you are effectively
:46:22. > :46:25.saying to people coming to our universities, it is OK to stay with
:46:26. > :46:29.a less than graduate job, frankly, there are lots of people in our own
:46:30. > :46:32.country desperate for those jobs, and we should be training them up.
:46:33. > :46:41.We don't need the world's brightest and best to come here to study and
:46:42. > :46:44.then to do menial jobs. That is not what our immigration system is for.
:46:45. > :46:48.We want a system where we can advertise to the world, come and
:46:49. > :46:50.study here and work here. That is the system we should keep.
:46:51. > :46:52.Our Westminster Correspondent David Porter is on College Green
:46:53. > :47:04.Not only is it not raining, but he is bathed in sunshine! It is
:47:05. > :47:10.virtually car buckle down here. No dirty language from you, please,
:47:11. > :47:13.about rain. We want none of that. I am pleased to say we have a balanced
:47:14. > :47:17.panel with me not just from the political parties, but also from the
:47:18. > :47:21.chambers of the Westminster Parliament. Without further ado, let
:47:22. > :47:26.me introduce them. From the Liberal Democrats, Lord Nicholls Stephen,
:47:27. > :47:31.Lord John fax from Labour, Ian Blackford from the Commons and the
:47:32. > :47:37.SNP and another ism, Ian Stewart from the Conservatives. Ian Stuart,
:47:38. > :47:43.I will begin with you. It is a famous phrase here at Westminster,
:47:44. > :47:48.the economy, stupid. That is no insult to you, I hasten to add. We
:47:49. > :47:53.have a situation now where by even the Chancellor seems to be talking
:47:54. > :47:57.down the economic recovery. The wheels coming off the economic
:47:58. > :48:01.wagon? I don't think they are coming off. Britain is recording one of the
:48:02. > :48:05.healthiest rates of growth in the western economy. The IMF recently
:48:06. > :48:12.gave us a good prognosis for the future. But what the Chancellor said
:48:13. > :48:18.last week is that the global economy is in a turbulent state. The
:48:19. > :48:21.reduction in oil prices is good for reducing the costs of manufacturing
:48:22. > :48:27.and motorists, but it will have an effect elsewhere in the economy. So
:48:28. > :48:31.we have to make sure we keep on the right path might improve our
:48:32. > :48:34.productivity get our national finances in shape so that we are
:48:35. > :48:39.able to withstand any future to be loads. Yet your Chancellor is using
:48:40. > :48:42.a phrase like toxic forces. We have the Royal Bank of Scotland is
:48:43. > :48:47.essentially saying to people, if you have stocks and shares, think about
:48:48. > :48:53.selling them. That is not moderate language. That was one commentator.
:48:54. > :48:58.But the Chancellor was right, we are not out of the woods. The
:48:59. > :49:07.difficulties that led us to the 2008 crash and subsequent recession have
:49:08. > :49:11.not gone away. It is a reminder that we need to keep on the path of
:49:12. > :49:17.getting our national finances back in shape so that we are able to
:49:18. > :49:20.withstand any future shocks that come on issues that any government
:49:21. > :49:25.in this country would not be able to control. Ian Blackford, GDP growth
:49:26. > :49:31.figures in Scotland were out, showing that it is not good at the
:49:32. > :49:35.moment. The oil price is plummeting. The Scottish economy cannot be
:49:36. > :49:39.complacent, can it? Of course not. We can reflect on the fact that the
:49:40. > :49:43.Scottish economy has grown consistently over the last 12
:49:44. > :49:46.quarters. There is an impact from what is happening in the oil
:49:47. > :49:49.industry and the fact that the oil price has come down, and we need
:49:50. > :49:54.action from the government to support the industry. But at the
:49:55. > :49:58.same time, we have to recognise that we are having a debate on the
:49:59. > :50:02.economy in the Commons and we have to rebalance the economy towards
:50:03. > :50:05.sustainable growth and making sure we create the circumstances where
:50:06. > :50:09.there is investment in the economy that will drive innovation, drive up
:50:10. > :50:14.skills and drive wages. There is more the government can do to make
:50:15. > :50:16.sure we create the circumstances for sustainable economic growth, which
:50:17. > :50:21.is why we want to make sure we had towers over business tax and so on
:50:22. > :50:25.in Scotland so that we can do the right thing to grow the Scottish
:50:26. > :50:32.economy sustainably. I am sure if I don't say it, Europe and swill- your
:50:33. > :50:38.economic policy, -- if I don't say it, your opponents will- your
:50:39. > :50:42.economic policy would have been thrown out in the event of
:50:43. > :50:48.independence? Nobody was predicting that the oil price would fall to
:50:49. > :50:52.$30. It is a cyclical industry, driven by supply and demand. The oil
:50:53. > :50:56.price will recover in time, and we need to make sure the skills that we
:50:57. > :50:59.have in the North Sea and elsewhere is something we can benefit from so
:51:00. > :51:04.that we have an industry that will still generate wealth, jobs and
:51:05. > :51:08.prosperity for the economy in the future. But even without oil, the
:51:09. > :51:12.Scottish economy has the same level of GDP per head as the rest of the
:51:13. > :51:18.UK. It is not that Scotland depends on oil, it is a bonus. George, you
:51:19. > :51:22.were shaking your head, but there is far more to Scotland than just oil?
:51:23. > :51:26.I disagree with both of them. Chancellor George Osborne is
:51:27. > :51:34.borrowing not just more than the Labour government borrowed, but more
:51:35. > :51:38.than he forecast. There is a housing crisis. There are people who are
:51:39. > :51:41.rich getting richer. There are people poor who are struggling. The
:51:42. > :51:45.only good thing is the price of oil as far as the people of UK are
:51:46. > :51:50.concerned, because it is bringing some prices down. For Ian Blackford
:51:51. > :51:56.to say that no one predicted oil prices, they did. Nicola Sturgeon
:51:57. > :51:59.predicted that oil prices would be. This would be a wonderful, new and
:52:00. > :52:04.independent Scotland. The only saving grace now for Scotland is
:52:05. > :52:08.that 16 months ago, Scotland voted no, otherwise we would be in real
:52:09. > :52:13.trouble. Let's deal with the oil price. On balance, is it a good
:52:14. > :52:17.thing for Scotland or is it better for the UK with low oil prices? It
:52:18. > :52:22.is not good for Scotland as far as to suck concerned. I was astonished
:52:23. > :52:27.that yesterday, Nicola Sturgeon was saying that hundreds of jobs lost at
:52:28. > :52:33.BP was somehow something wonderful. It isn't, it is disastrous. The oil
:52:34. > :52:40.and gas industry in Scotland is devastated. We had an SNP MSP saying
:52:41. > :52:45.it is booming. That is manifest nonsense. Things are bad in the
:52:46. > :52:53.Scottish oil and gas industry. It is about time the SNP recognised that.
:52:54. > :52:58.Nicholls Stephen, you were formally an MP and now you are in the House
:52:59. > :53:03.of Lords. You know the north-east of Scotland well. How hard is it
:53:04. > :53:08.hurting at the moment? Very hard. With the price continuing to four,
:53:09. > :53:13.it will be a very difficult 12 months ahead. There has been
:53:14. > :53:17.complacency. An SNP MSP did say there is no crisis and he did talk
:53:18. > :53:23.up the record levels of production, which was the case last year. But
:53:24. > :53:28.this year, with a $30 oil price and with everyone expecting it to be
:53:29. > :53:34.around $60-$80, we are going to have a very tough 12 months. We are
:53:35. > :53:39.hearing from the Scottish Government and the UK Government that there
:53:40. > :53:43.will be serious action to help the situation in Aberdeen, the
:53:44. > :53:47.north-east and the Highlands of Scotland, but I am aware of any
:53:48. > :53:51.action at the moment. We need a task force on this. We need both
:53:52. > :53:56.governments working together, not making politics out of this. In
:53:57. > :53:59.practical terms, what can and should the government in London and
:54:00. > :54:05.Edinburgh doing? They should work together to work with the industry
:54:06. > :54:11.and with businesses, some of whom are not just facing redundancy, but
:54:12. > :54:15.some of which could go over the precipice in the next few months.
:54:16. > :54:20.There is a great deal the government can do to support an industrial
:54:21. > :54:24.sector in such distress. Let's not underestimate this. Some
:54:25. > :54:29.commentators are predicting that the oil price could go down even
:54:30. > :54:32.further. This is an incredibly serious situation not just for
:54:33. > :54:37.Aberdeen and the north-east, but the whole of Scotland and for the UK. It
:54:38. > :54:43.deserves serious attention. George, let me put the same question to you.
:54:44. > :54:46.What in practical terms could and should the UK and Scottish
:54:47. > :54:49.governments be doing? The Scottish Government should stop obsessing
:54:50. > :54:59.about breaking up the UK. Every time I hear a spokesperson talk, it is
:55:00. > :55:03.independence, as if that would solve everything. They need to pull their
:55:04. > :55:10.fingers out and not just sort out the economy and the oil industry,
:55:11. > :55:15.but the health service, education of the police. All of these things are
:55:16. > :55:20.being neglected because they are so preoccupied with independence. So
:55:21. > :55:23.for get the constitution, saw the bread-and-butter issues? That is
:55:24. > :55:28.exactly what we are doing. And by the way, Nicola takes very seriously
:55:29. > :55:33.the challenges were facing in the all industry and the disastrous news
:55:34. > :55:38.of the job losses from BP. Then why did the MSP say there was no crisis?
:55:39. > :55:42.We face a considerable challenge in the oil industry that we have to
:55:43. > :55:49.respond to. We have set up an energy task force. We need to make sure we
:55:50. > :55:53.do all we can to get the right taxation that encourages people to
:55:54. > :55:57.continue to invest for the longer term. In my constituency, we have a
:55:58. > :56:02.business which is engaged in the training of divers. We need to
:56:03. > :56:06.support training and development. These are things we can do to make
:56:07. > :56:11.sure that when the oil price recovers, we can take advantage of
:56:12. > :56:15.the opportunities. Gentlemen, we have to leave it there. It is a
:56:16. > :56:26.subject we could have spoken about all afternoon. Thank you for joining
:56:27. > :56:34.me. Our confidence to the Met for some
:56:35. > :56:39.impressive sirens there! Let's go back to that economic debate. One of
:56:40. > :56:45.the points you were making earlier was that one of the reasons we can
:56:46. > :56:50.get this is because the opposition were being specific about what they
:56:51. > :56:56.wanted. It was about nice things in and nasty things out. It has become
:56:57. > :57:03.a bit of a fad on Twitter, perpetrated about the SNP and
:57:04. > :57:11.everything the Scottish Government doing being bad. And the opposition
:57:12. > :57:14.says nothing can be done. Hopefully, this would change from all political
:57:15. > :57:18.parties in the run-up to the election as we hear more about
:57:19. > :57:24.manifestos. But there is no real vision at the moment from the other
:57:25. > :57:29.parties. They talk about the oil crisis, and everyone says it is very
:57:30. > :57:33.bad and something must be done. What needs to be done? Well, something.
:57:34. > :57:39.George says the Scottish Government needs to pull their finger out, to
:57:40. > :57:45.use his phrase. What does that mean? No practical solutions are being
:57:46. > :57:51.offered. And Nicholls Stephen said oil prices are going up to between
:57:52. > :57:56.60 and $80 a barrel. What a man! It helps when you can get a crystal
:57:57. > :58:00.ball out. Baby it is something kept in a murky chamber of the Lords, the
:58:01. > :58:06.oil price crystal ball. It is all well and good to say that. Another
:58:07. > :58:14.thing in the news is David Mundell, who has put out a blog today saying
:58:15. > :58:22.he is gay. Apparently, the first team conservative Cabinet minister
:58:23. > :58:26.to do so. Absolutely. It is almost sad in a way that a statement needs
:58:27. > :58:33.to be made. I don't think many people will bother batting an eyelid
:58:34. > :58:37.about this. In a way, it is very brave of David Mundell to come out
:58:38. > :58:42.and do this whilst he is still in government and whilst he is under
:58:43. > :58:47.the public spotlight. But I don't think anyone will care, particularly
:58:48. > :58:48.the constituents. I gather he has had nasty stuff online, but that is
:58:49. > :58:50.by the by. We're back at the usual
:58:51. > :58:55.time next Wednesday. The link between the cars
:58:56. > :59:06.we choose to drive, air pollution and ill-health is under
:59:07. > :59:11.greater scrutiny than ever before. Well, we risk
:59:12. > :59:13.increasing our rates of diabetes, increasing dementia,
:59:14. > :59:16.increasing depression... Amidst warnings about heart disease,
:59:17. > :59:20.strokes and obesity, and claims of up to
:59:21. > :59:25.2,000 premature deaths each year,