:00:16. > :00:19.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up: Freedom of
:00:19. > :00:26.Information laws will be passed at Holyrood, without a controversial
:00:26. > :00:34.royal secrecy clause. Alex Salmond sets out his thinking
:00:34. > :00:37.on a constitution for an independent Scotland. Modern
:00:37. > :00:39.constitutional thinking says its citizens have the right of
:00:39. > :00:43.engagement & protection from government, this is the way the
:00:43. > :00:52.world is moving. As a modern democracy Scotland should move in
:00:52. > :00:58.that direction. The year of Natural Scotland begins. What is it and how
:00:58. > :01:02.can we benefit? MPs have backed plans for a Scottish independence
:01:02. > :01:05.referendum and now the House of Lords are having their say. Good
:01:05. > :01:07.afternoon. Let's turn our attention first to the Freedom of Information
:01:07. > :01:10.legislation that's likely to be passed at Holyrood this afternoon.
:01:10. > :01:16.I'm joined in the studio by our political commentator for the
:01:16. > :01:19.afternoon, Mike Wade. He writes for The Times. Good afternoon and will
:01:19. > :01:26.come. Mike, these new laws are there to update the previous
:01:26. > :01:32.legislation, aren't they? That is very much what we are therefore.
:01:32. > :01:42.There had been some concerns expressed that there was an
:01:42. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :01:48.absolute exception proposed for the Royal Family, but also some other
:01:48. > :01:55.companies were likely to be exempted. The Scottish government
:01:55. > :01:59.has moved all the way it on the royal family but some arms-length
:01:59. > :02:02.companies could be exempt for some time. These are housing
:02:02. > :02:12.associations and private companies which might undertake public sector
:02:12. > :02:16.
:02:16. > :02:19.work? Won very well known company was one you might want to find out
:02:19. > :02:22.information about if you possibly can. Back with you in a moment,
:02:22. > :02:25.Mike. Let's cross to Holyrood now and pick up on this issue, and a
:02:25. > :02:28.few others, with Paul Martin from Labour, Willie Rennie, the leader
:02:28. > :02:34.of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, and from the SNP we have Stewart
:02:34. > :02:44.Maxwell. Good afternoon to you all and thank you for joining me. First
:02:44. > :02:49.of all, we were discussing freedom of information legislation. If
:02:49. > :02:54.campaigners are one thing that law extended to cover housing
:02:54. > :03:02.associations, why has that not happened? That power already exists
:03:02. > :03:06.in section 5. By statutory instrument, you can extend the list
:03:06. > :03:10.of bodies but it is proper that the Government consults properly a
:03:10. > :03:14.matter and make sure it is the right thing to do, and we will
:03:15. > :03:19.cover all the bases when it is time to do that. This current bill means
:03:19. > :03:24.we can keep ahead of the game and we have made sure it is the most of
:03:24. > :03:29.August legislation in the UK will stop it tightens up some areas and
:03:29. > :03:34.extends the length of time prosecutions can take. This still
:03:34. > :03:40.leaves open the door for further extensions to these powers. What is
:03:40. > :03:44.the point of leaving the door open at this point? We're having a stage
:03:44. > :03:50.three debate this afternoon and it is likely to be passed at Holyrood
:03:50. > :03:55.today. Why not put this in the current bill? The powers currently
:03:55. > :04:02.exist in the 2002 bill so we do not need more changes currently to
:04:02. > :04:05.extend the number of bodies. That will be dealt with after
:04:05. > :04:15.consultation with specific bodies including some of the ones you have
:04:15. > :04:16.
:04:16. > :04:21.been discussing. Paul Martin, you say you what this legislation to
:04:21. > :04:25.keep track of taxpayers' money but many people have accused the
:04:25. > :04:35.Freedom of Information legislation is of abusing taxpayers' money. The
:04:35. > :04:39.
:04:39. > :04:45.phrase, slippers charter, has been used. -- snooper's. There has been
:04:45. > :04:50.a lot of scrutiny but let's nick it very clear, he refers to the door
:04:50. > :04:54.are many open and it has been open for the last five years for them to
:04:54. > :04:57.bring forward this and they have not done that. There were failings
:04:57. > :05:03.by the previous government and there are some concerns that we
:05:03. > :05:09.have to bring forward some additional organisations to be
:05:09. > :05:13.included in this legislation. can turn to Willie Rennie. We have
:05:13. > :05:18.been hearing that the campaigners have won the extension to people
:05:18. > :05:21.like housing associations, but does he make a clear case that a that
:05:21. > :05:27.already exists and that we have kept an open mind about extension
:05:27. > :05:31.in the future? It has always existed that he is correct in that
:05:31. > :05:40.respect but it is coming up for six years and the SNP have not acted
:05:40. > :05:46.once. Not one single extension has been added. They have not added one
:05:46. > :05:52.organisation and that whole time and that is why we have 130 arms
:05:52. > :05:57.length organisations. The public pound is not under scrutiny as it
:05:57. > :06:06.once was and that has to change. would like to back up on another.
:06:06. > :06:10.We're covering today. Alex Salmond is talking about a written
:06:10. > :06:17.constitution which seems like a fairly modern idea, and that is one
:06:17. > :06:21.that you're party supports. It is all about things like access to a
:06:21. > :06:24.homeland in education. Is that something you would support? This
:06:24. > :06:30.is something Labour and Liberal Democrats have campaigned for a
:06:30. > :06:33.foray very long time and would like to see delivered, but this is just
:06:33. > :06:38.the fat is say, really. It is not focusing on the real things like
:06:38. > :06:42.how an independent Scotland could afford such things and that is at
:06:42. > :06:46.the centre of the independence debate, which is why Alex Salmond
:06:46. > :06:54.likes to talk about things like that rather than the substance of
:06:54. > :06:59.how he would achieve it. The UK did not pay much heed to a written
:06:59. > :07:05.constitution. Are you in favour? it was the Labour Party which
:07:05. > :07:14.deliver the first Scottish Parliament in the hundred years'.
:07:14. > :07:17.Within one year, Tony Blair deliver the referendum. The decided
:07:17. > :07:24.overwhelmingly to deliver a Scottish Parliament with tax
:07:24. > :07:30.varying powers. We will not now see a referendum until 2014 so why will
:07:30. > :07:33.not take any directions from anyone in connection with the way the
:07:33. > :07:38.Labour Party have been effective in going forward and the mother and
:07:38. > :07:48.democracy. You seem to have had some support from Willie Rennie and
:07:48. > :07:53.the Liberal Democrats but do you not think that sitting down this
:07:53. > :07:57.compares with what other modern European democracies have? These
:07:57. > :08:05.were just some ideas which could be included such as that Scotland
:08:05. > :08:09.would not have weapons of mass destruction in its land or water.
:08:09. > :08:14.Some of these questions would be for a future independent Scotland
:08:14. > :08:18.to determine what the written constitution contains, but the idea
:08:18. > :08:21.of basic principles of education and not having nuclear weapons in
:08:21. > :08:28.Scotland are the kind of things I think the Scottish people would
:08:28. > :08:33.support. I just want to turn to another constitutional point. The
:08:34. > :08:38.Lords are debating giving the power to Scotland to have that a
:08:38. > :08:44.referendum. Some have said that Alex Salmond will do what he likes
:08:44. > :08:49.ones that referendum is delivered at Lord's Forsyth said that Alex
:08:49. > :08:56.Salmond did not give out any clear indication he would abide by the
:08:56. > :09:02.electoral prescriptions? This is exactly the same as what the UK
:09:02. > :09:05.parliament do, they will listen to the advice, the very careful advice,
:09:05. > :09:09.provided by the Electoral Commission and move forward on that
:09:09. > :09:14.advice. That is exactly what the UK Government has done and what the
:09:14. > :09:18.Scottish government will do. Scottish government are following
:09:18. > :09:23.what the UK Government is doing? do not want to see what has
:09:23. > :09:29.happened in the past which is the SNP Government accusing -- abusing
:09:29. > :09:34.their majority in the Scottish Parliament. We want to ensure there
:09:34. > :09:39.is a fair referendum put forward in 20th November 14 up or whatever
:09:40. > :09:45.that date is to be. It needs to be fair and objective and it needs to
:09:45. > :09:49.be interrogated in a fair manner which does not see the SNP are
:09:49. > :09:57.abusing their majority. This is the positive message from the no
:09:57. > :10:02.campaign. They are saying that the Scottish Parliament is not the
:10:02. > :10:06.democratic place, an assault on this very institution! I want to
:10:06. > :10:10.take up this point with Willie Rennie. Lord Forsyth made this
:10:10. > :10:17.point and he is one of your Coalition colleagues. Do you agree
:10:17. > :10:21.with him? Not always the! He is known for his strong views.
:10:21. > :10:25.Everyone is nervous how the SNP will handle this and that is why
:10:25. > :10:31.there is such close scrutiny. I am pleased about the commitment shown
:10:31. > :10:37.today, saying they will follow the advice. If we have those kind of
:10:38. > :10:42.standards, I think it will be good. Willie Rennie, Paul Martin and
:10:42. > :10:52.Stuart Maxwell, we will let you get off to take part in that debate
:10:52. > :10:52.
:10:52. > :11:02.just now. Thank you. We are going to discuss
:11:02. > :11:06.
:11:06. > :11:10.this here in the studio just now. Good afternoon to you both. We were
:11:10. > :11:15.talking about that extension to private bodies such as housing
:11:15. > :11:22.associations. Stuart Maxwell made the point that that exists already.
:11:22. > :11:26.Are you happy with that? The power has existed since 2002. We had a
:11:26. > :11:32.promise that the power would be used quickly and it has never been
:11:32. > :11:35.used. Other hopes were raised in 2010 when the Scottish government
:11:35. > :11:40.undertook a consultation which proposed a list of bodies to be
:11:40. > :11:45.covered by freedom of information legislation and the even produced a
:11:45. > :11:48.draft order, but then nothing happened. He we are hugely
:11:48. > :11:51.disappointed that nothing has happened since then and it is a
:11:52. > :11:54.problem created by successive administrations, but we are where
:11:55. > :12:01.we are just now and we have to concentrate on the opportunity
:12:01. > :12:07.today to strengthen freedom of information laws. The fundamental
:12:07. > :12:11.point which makes it important for people at home is that for people
:12:11. > :12:18.who are housing association residents, you believe they can no
:12:18. > :12:24.longer access that information? 2002, housing associations were in
:12:24. > :12:27.the original bill at stage three, and it was said that they would be
:12:28. > :12:34.withdrawn for various reasons but there would be further consultation
:12:34. > :12:39.and inclusion in the future. That did not happen. We have a twofold
:12:39. > :12:44.problem. According to the Scottish Information Commissioner, many
:12:44. > :12:48.tenants lost their information rights when they were transferred
:12:48. > :12:51.to housing associations and then you have all the tenants who never
:12:51. > :12:57.had freedom of information who want to get all sorts of information
:12:57. > :13:02.about the homes, the community that the 11. Not personal information
:13:02. > :13:08.because that is protected, but all sorts of other technical
:13:08. > :13:11.information, so they do not have the freedom of information right.
:13:11. > :13:16.Others have lost their right such as if a council has transferred the
:13:16. > :13:20.public service over to the leisure Trust also up the problem with
:13:20. > :13:23.Freedom of Information legislation is that it is a robust but it has
:13:23. > :13:29.not been kept up-to-date without changes have been delivered in
:13:29. > :13:34.Scotland. There has been an opportunity to fix that every year
:13:34. > :13:39.since 2002 and that has not happened. As a working journalist,
:13:39. > :13:46.we're talking about these changes kept up-to-date. Are there any
:13:46. > :13:51.changes that would make your job easier or harder? I am not sure the
:13:51. > :13:56.new legislation would benefit journalists massively. Quite often
:13:56. > :14:04.I have found that freedom of information can be been very slow
:14:04. > :14:14.process. Organisations can hide behind Freedom of Information
:14:14. > :14:15.
:14:15. > :14:23.requests and take time and let the story die. I find it can be better
:14:23. > :14:29.if you surprised them. Generally I do not use a Freedom of Information
:14:29. > :14:36.very much because I find it can be slow and even an overwhelming
:14:36. > :14:39.process. Does that staked a chord with you? Been the case of
:14:39. > :14:44.journalists, does that sound like the legislation is not working
:14:44. > :14:49.properly? I think it is the very interesting discussion because that
:14:49. > :14:53.is not the one we have been having over the last several months. That
:14:53. > :14:57.is about how freedom of information can be made simpler and more
:14:57. > :15:02.accessible, but it was created initially to solve a problem, which
:15:02. > :15:09.is the public right to know and they were so often refused. The
:15:09. > :15:14.strong element is the enforceable right that the Scottish information
:15:14. > :15:19.commissioner. In on your behalf. It is about empowering ordinary people
:15:19. > :15:26.but I understand the point that is being made. We will have to leave
:15:26. > :15:33.it there. We can go live to the chamber at Holyrood where the
:15:33. > :15:36.Conservatives are speaking on this The fact that it wasn't done in the
:15:36. > :15:41.intervening period from the initial act being passed I think is neither
:15:41. > :15:45.here nor there. I think it is important we seat mechanism being
:15:45. > :15:49.utilised but for that reason I don't think it is strictly
:15:49. > :15:53.necessary. In the absence of a regulatory impact assessment - I'm
:15:53. > :15:56.slightly nervous about what impact it might have - and I'm slightly
:15:56. > :16:04.concerned it could cut against the better regulation agenda. For those
:16:05. > :16:08.reasons, we'll not be supporting Amendment 70. Thank you. Willie
:16:08. > :16:13.Rennie. I support the proposals from Elaine Murray. I think they
:16:13. > :16:18.are sensible. If we are trying to get a regime that follow the public
:16:18. > :16:21.pound, this is the way we should proceed. It seems a relatively
:16:21. > :16:26.simple and devolved way of operating. It means that we can
:16:26. > :16:32.make sure that rather than relying on the kind of retrospective
:16:32. > :16:37.Section 5, swi worthy in its own right and should be used. -- which
:16:37. > :16:41.is worthy. It allows us to have a proactive scheme so we can tract
:16:41. > :16:49.our public pound with regards with the freedom of information ajeem. I
:16:49. > :16:56.think it is a sensible way to proceed. I think that's the way
:16:56. > :17:00.that we should proceed. Thank you. I call on the Cabinet Secretary.
:17:00. > :17:05.Thank you, Presiding Officer. Amendment 7 is similar, in many
:17:05. > :17:09.respects to an amendment that Alieen Murray put forward at stage
:17:09. > :17:15.2, although I appreciate she has made some changes to reflect the
:17:15. > :17:18.discussions that took place at stage 2. As I said at stage 2 I'm
:17:18. > :17:22.not unsympathetic to the intention behind this provision. Certainly it
:17:22. > :17:27.is the case that consultation has shown this the public favours the
:17:27. > :17:30.public authority being the access point to information. However, the
:17:30. > :17:36.concerns I I have about this amendment are very similar to the
:17:36. > :17:40.concerns I had at stage 2. And this is that there are - or there maybe
:17:40. > :17:43.unintend, indeed unpredictable consequences of it. The amendment
:17:43. > :17:46.concerns any organisation exercising any function of an
:17:46. > :17:50.authority or providing any service, the provision of which is a
:17:50. > :17:53.function of the authority. Given the numerous organisations that
:17:53. > :17:57.that might include it, becomes apparent very quickly that it would
:17:57. > :18:01.be unclear which organisations might be expected to be holding
:18:01. > :18:06.information on behalf of a particular public authority it.
:18:06. > :18:09.Would become almost inpop for an authority to know what information
:18:09. > :18:14.it holds and this would be exacerbated when information is
:18:14. > :18:18.held further down the supply chain. Administering these arrangements
:18:18. > :18:22.potentially place burden on all individual public authorities as
:18:22. > :18:25.well as additional administrative burdens on them and other
:18:25. > :18:28.organisations. It would place a considerable policing burden on the
:18:28. > :18:32.Information Commissioner. The amendment provides the relevant
:18:32. > :18:37.information, "Relates to an exercise or function in relation to
:18:37. > :18:41.a were vision or service." The meaning is unclear and imprecise.
:18:41. > :18:46.It leaves considerable potential for ambiguity and uncertainty as it
:18:46. > :18:51.what information may be within scope. Of particular practical
:18:51. > :18:55.concern, the arrangement - again I would point out to members that the
:18:55. > :18:58.term "arrangement" is undefined in the amendment. The arrangements
:18:58. > :19:02.must include provision for the timely provision of the information
:19:02. > :19:06.to the authority in the event of a request for information. That would
:19:06. > :19:11.apply down the supply chain and it would become increasingly difficult
:19:11. > :19:17.for the authority to comply, with as it has no direct control down
:19:17. > :19:22.that chain. Dr Murray has also, herself, pointed to an issue around
:19:22. > :19:26.interpretation of the value of contract. Now, I hear what Elaine
:19:26. > :19:31.Murray says and it maybe that she thinks she knows what is meant by
:19:31. > :19:35.the �1 million in the amendment, but with the greatest of respect
:19:35. > :19:41.I'm not sure that's sufficient if there is lack of provision about
:19:41. > :19:45.what it means in respect to the example she used around that.
:19:45. > :19:48.That was Nicola Sturegon, the Deputy First Minister speaking in
:19:48. > :19:52.the Chamber there about freedom of information legislation. I'm still
:19:52. > :19:55.joined by Mike Wade from the Times in the studio. Freedom of
:19:55. > :19:59.information can be tricky for governments, can't it? Yes, I think
:20:00. > :20:04.Tony Blair makes the point in his autobiography, that he didn't
:20:04. > :20:08.regret the war in Iraq and did regret the freedom of information
:20:08. > :20:12.legislation and fox-hunting. The snooper's charter. Maybe it was a
:20:12. > :20:15.phrase he coined. If you look like a case like Lockerbie, it seems to
:20:15. > :20:19.me, when you go after that case, that freedom of information will
:20:19. > :20:26.get you so far but it doesn't necessarily get you to the truth.
:20:26. > :20:30.So, like I said earlier, governments - or officials find
:20:31. > :20:35.ways not to give you information. They always do that. Now the First
:20:35. > :20:38.Minister, as we pointed out earlier, has said rights to a home and free
:20:38. > :20:42.education could feature in a constitution for an independent
:20:42. > :20:45.Scotland. He made the comments during a speech in London this
:20:45. > :20:48.morning. Westminster is preparing it transfer the power to hold a
:20:48. > :20:52.referendum to Edinburgh. Mr Salmond was speaking to our Political
:20:52. > :20:56.Editor, Brian Taylor. He set out what he considered were the
:20:56. > :20:59.practical gains of a written constitution.
:20:59. > :21:02.The sort of ideas that the SNP would contribute to a process that
:21:02. > :21:05.would engage all of Scotland as well as all the Scottish political
:21:05. > :21:08.parties are things like a protection in terms of free
:21:09. > :21:14.education. Scotland pioneered free education hundreds of years ago. We
:21:14. > :21:16.have a policy and we've restored free education but it should be a
:21:16. > :21:24.constitutional protection. The right of every Scottish family to
:21:24. > :21:28.have a home. We have statute but shouldn't it be a constitutional
:21:28. > :21:32.provision? Shouldn't there be a constitutional were vision banning
:21:32. > :21:35.weapons of mass destruction from an independent Scotland? The right and
:21:35. > :21:38.terms of protection about how countries are taken into
:21:38. > :21:41.international conflict. A huge issue ten years ago, the illegal
:21:41. > :21:44.war in Iraq, with disastrous consequence, the House of Commons
:21:44. > :21:47.misled into that conflict, shouldn't thereby a were vision in
:21:47. > :21:50.the constitution which say these are the provision that is have to
:21:50. > :21:54.be met if Scottish forces are to be committed to an international
:21:54. > :21:57.conflict? So these are the things which you can put in a modern
:21:57. > :22:02.constitution which engages the citizens and are the big issues of
:22:02. > :22:06.the day. It could be said these are not constitutional issues per se,
:22:06. > :22:11.they are policy issues. You have listed the SNP manifesto or part of
:22:11. > :22:14.it. I have listed things that the SNP regard are so important that we
:22:14. > :22:18.would propose are in the constitution. Education, isn't it a
:22:18. > :22:21.policy issue to be debated? It is a right for Scottish citizens to have
:22:21. > :22:24.access to free education. Modern constitutional thinking says that
:22:24. > :22:28.citizens have right, they have the right of engagement and protection
:22:28. > :22:31.from governments. This is the way the world is moving. In the Commons,
:22:31. > :22:35.almost perhaps more particularly in the Lords, Lord Forsyth and others
:22:35. > :22:39.are saying this is a blank cheque to your government. They are
:22:39. > :22:42.concerned about this. There are MPs and Lords saying this. It is a
:22:42. > :22:45.blank cheque to your government. Will be respond, responsibly, if
:22:45. > :22:48.you like, to this? Or will you exercise powers in ways that
:22:48. > :22:52.perhaps add to their fears, for example over the wording of the
:22:52. > :22:58.question? We are going to have a referendum in Scotland, which is an
:22:58. > :23:02.exemplar in terms of international experience. But, frankly, we don't
:23:02. > :23:04.need lessons from Michael Forsyth, Lord Forsyth in the unelected House
:23:04. > :23:08.of Lords about the democratic impertives that will follow. These
:23:08. > :23:12.are people in the last ditch. He can not stand the idea that Scot
:23:12. > :23:18.sland now in charge of our own destiney. That's basically what
:23:18. > :23:22.sticks in the craw of Lord Forsyth and he and his colleagues, I
:23:22. > :23:25.suspect will be in that last ditch for some time to come. Will you
:23:25. > :23:30.exploit the powers given. Will you, for example insist on your own
:23:30. > :23:34.wording on the question? Will you insist on your own plans for the
:23:34. > :23:41.funding for the campaign? In terms of the referendum, the process that
:23:41. > :23:45.will be abided by in Scotland as we provide a exemplar in international
:23:45. > :23:47.experience are those that would be abided by in a Westminster
:23:47. > :23:51.referendum. The Electoral Commission makes the testing
:23:51. > :23:55.arrangements, which they are doing and then Parliament decides. That's
:23:55. > :23:58.what happens in Westminster referendums. What sticks in the
:23:58. > :24:03.craw of Michael Forsyth and what he and his colleagues object to, is
:24:03. > :24:07.the decisions are being made in Scotland. If it was being made in
:24:07. > :24:09.the unelected House of Lords they would be entirely comfortable with
:24:09. > :24:13.that. But you welcome the section 30 move,
:24:13. > :24:16.presumably? I think it is an example of how, if governments talk
:24:16. > :24:20.to each other, and come through proper negotiations they can come
:24:20. > :24:22.with up a good conclusion. I welcome the fact that the ps
:24:22. > :24:28.passage of the section 30, already passed in the Scottish Parliament,
:24:28. > :24:31.means we can get on to deciding the whys of independence and the SNP's
:24:31. > :24:35.concentration will be in spelling out advantages of Scotland being an
:24:36. > :24:39.independent country. On the wherefors for a moment as well as
:24:39. > :24:42.the whys, do you expect much change to the question you proposed when
:24:42. > :24:45.you put it forward to the Electoral Commission? We put it forward. The
:24:45. > :24:48.Electoral Commission are doing their job of evaluating the
:24:48. > :24:51.question. They'll make their report and Parliament will decide. It is a
:24:51. > :24:55.fair and responsible process and it is a process we are going through.
:24:55. > :24:59.In every respect, this is going to be a referendum, not just made in
:24:59. > :25:03.Scotland but that will stand up to the most stringent of international
:25:03. > :25:08.scrutiny. The First Minister speaking there
:25:08. > :25:13.to Brian Taylor. I'm joined by Mike Wade our commentator for the
:25:13. > :25:17.afternoon. Mike, many modern European democracies have written
:25:17. > :25:23.constitutions. It's interesting, of course, Britain has never - the UK
:25:24. > :25:28.has never had one. Where are the positives and negatives of one?
:25:28. > :25:32.slightly sceptical, I must say about the written constitution. The
:25:32. > :25:36.granddady is the American constitution. You know, Mr Salmond
:25:36. > :25:40.referred to the big issues of the day. The big issues of the day in
:25:40. > :25:43.the 1770s and 1780s was gun ownership in America. It is
:25:43. > :25:51.enshrined in the American constitution. We know what problems
:25:51. > :25:56.they have with that now. The First Minister talks, forbg, or implies
:25:56. > :26:00.free housing. -- for example. Free housing or free education is of
:26:00. > :26:04.course desirable. But in two generations when they have run out,
:26:04. > :26:08.do you want it enshrined into the constitution. You could have an
:26:08. > :26:13.issue like immigration taking off in a big way, if you are suggesting
:26:13. > :26:17.everyone in Scotland has free education and fre housing. Now,
:26:18. > :26:23.Scotland -- free. Now, Scotland wants more immigration but that
:26:23. > :26:26.could capitalise in a an awful lot more. Brian Taylor was asking Mr
:26:26. > :26:30.Salmond there if there were not more constitutional but policy
:26:30. > :26:36.questions. It was interesting the one about Trident. In some ways, if
:26:36. > :26:39.that was in a written - you know, no nuclear weapons in an
:26:39. > :26:42.independent Scotland, if that was written into the constitution, that
:26:42. > :26:45.could bind future governments, couldn't it? I think so. Also, you
:26:45. > :26:51.are including some things in and some things out. What else are you
:26:51. > :26:57.going to keep out? Are you going to say, for example, a vivisection or
:26:57. > :27:00.a controversial issue like that, we don't agree, so will that be
:27:00. > :27:06.enshrined in the constitution? I don't know so. Many things can come
:27:06. > :27:12.in or out of the reckoning. I think the mystery of the British cons
:27:12. > :27:15.stuegs, it fits well for some people -- constitution.
:27:15. > :27:19.It is unusual in the world but it has worked pretty well for a long
:27:19. > :27:24.time. Finally, just to tie everything up politically, we are
:27:24. > :27:28.speaking to the MSPs about Lord Forsyth's points, Brian was
:27:28. > :27:32.bringing that up, Lord Forsyth said the transfer of powers, the section
:27:32. > :27:36.30 order should happen once the dated and question should be agreed.
:27:36. > :27:39.Now it was interesting, Mr Salmond put the point that of course the
:27:39. > :27:42.Scottish Parliament was a democratic organisation,
:27:42. > :27:47.democratically elected and would decide and, you know fairly decide
:27:47. > :27:51.what was going to happen I did agree with the First Minister. It
:27:51. > :27:59.is the democratic choice in Scotland. It's what people want and
:27:59. > :28:04.that's what should happen. There are one or two sect r sectors risen
:28:04. > :28:07.up about the SNP controlling pamt. Well that was what democracy was
:28:07. > :28:10.about. That's what the Labour Party in Scotland - if they were
:28:10. > :28:14.concerned about that, they perhaps should have organised a better
:28:14. > :28:21.election campaign in 2011. Back with you in a moment. Now, David
:28:21. > :28:23.Cameron has lost control over the Conservative Party over Europe Ed
:28:23. > :28:28.Miliband claimed ahead of the Prime Minister's long-awaited speech on
:28:28. > :28:30.the UK's relationship with Brussels. The party leaders clashed at Prime
:28:30. > :28:35.Minister's Questions, with Mr David Miliband warning that Friday's
:28:35. > :28:38.speech would only result in a fresh round of Tory in-fighting on Europe.
:28:38. > :28:41.Mr Speaker, when the Prime Minister first became leader of the
:28:41. > :28:46.Conservative Party, he said that their biggest problem was they
:28:46. > :28:56.spent far too much of their time banging on about Europe. Is he glad
:28:56. > :29:00.
:29:00. > :29:03.those days are over? CHEERS AND JEERS
:29:03. > :29:08.I think that even the leader of the Labour Party should accept the fact
:29:08. > :29:13.that there is a massive change taking place in Europe. A change
:29:13. > :29:16.that is being driven by the changes in the eurozone and, Frankly, this
:29:16. > :29:22.country faces a choice and political parties in this country
:29:22. > :29:25.face a choice - do we look at these changes and see what we can do to
:29:25. > :29:28.maximise Britain's national interest? And do we consult the
:29:28. > :29:32.public about that? Or do we sit back, do nothing and tell the
:29:32. > :29:42.public to go hang. I know where I stand. I know where this party
:29:42. > :29:43.
:29:43. > :29:52.stands and that's in the national Let's talk Waco credit where he
:29:52. > :29:57.stands today! I shoot to congratulate tunnel link their -
:29:57. > :30:03.deciding on the eight of his speech. Well done at! Another example of
:30:03. > :30:08.the Rolls-Royce operation of 10 Downing Street. What is his answer
:30:08. > :30:12.to this question that investors need to know - will Britain be in
:30:12. > :30:17.the European Union in five years' time? Can I first of all
:30:17. > :30:25.congratulate him up on an important decision he has made - Ditcheat the
:30:25. > :30:34.shadow chancellor in place until 2015. Rarely do we see so much
:30:34. > :30:37.cross-party support! My view is that Britain is much better off in
:30:37. > :30:40.the European Union and it is right for us to see the changes taking
:30:40. > :30:44.place in Europe and to make sure that we are arguing for the changes
:30:44. > :30:49.that Britain needs, so that therefore we have a better
:30:49. > :30:54.relationship between Britain and Europe, be a better organised
:30:54. > :31:04.European Union and the consent of the British people. What are his
:31:04. > :31:14.choices? Maybe we are making a bit of progress. In October, 2011, we
:31:14. > :31:14.
:31:14. > :31:21.what shoulder to shoulder through the lobby. You might call at two
:31:21. > :31:26.parties working together in the national interest. The Foreign
:31:26. > :31:30.Secretary said at the time, and he was going to Australia to get as
:31:30. > :31:35.far away from the Prime Minister as possible, the reason for our fault
:31:35. > :31:45.is that an additional referendum would create the economic
:31:45. > :31:46.
:31:46. > :31:54.uncertainty at a difficult time. Was the Foreign Secretary erect?
:31:54. > :31:58.-- right. He only wants to talk about process because he dares not
:31:58. > :32:02.speak about the substance. I do not think it would be correct to have a
:32:02. > :32:07.referendum today because we would be giving the British people a
:32:07. > :32:11.false choice close-up millions of people in this country want Britain
:32:11. > :32:17.to stay within the European Union but they think their chances to
:32:17. > :32:22.negotiate better relations. Throughout Europe, countries are
:32:22. > :32:27.looking at forthcoming treaty change and wondering what they can
:32:27. > :32:37.do to maximise their interests. Let's look at the substance and
:32:37. > :32:41.
:32:41. > :32:48.give up the field jocks. -- feeble jokes. First of all, I thought the
:32:48. > :32:53.jocks were pretty good but I am talking about the substance. How
:32:53. > :32:58.his position appears to be an inner out the referendum now would be
:32:58. > :33:07.destabilising, but promising one in five years' time is just OK for the
:33:07. > :33:11.country. What does that mean? That his ideas of businesses seeing a
:33:12. > :33:19.closed for business I'm hanging around Britain. What did Lord
:33:19. > :33:23.Heseltine say? He is one of the few mainstream voice is in the
:33:23. > :33:27.Conservative Party and he said that to come back to a referendum about
:33:27. > :33:34.the negotiation that has not begun on a timescale you cannot predict
:33:34. > :33:41.on an outcome that is unknown seems to me like an unnecessary gamble.
:33:41. > :33:45.As Lord Heseltine right? It is no secret that when it comes to Europe
:33:45. > :33:50.there are disagreements between myself and Michael Heseltine. He
:33:50. > :33:54.was one of the leading voices were batting joining the single currency
:33:54. > :34:00.and I am delighted that we have not joined that. Under my leadership,
:34:00. > :34:07.we never will. That is still the view of thousands of businesses up
:34:07. > :34:13.and down the country. I want a more flexible and competitive Europe
:34:13. > :34:21.that can take on the challenges of the global race and the eyes of
:34:21. > :34:26.nations in the south and east. reason he is changing his mind is
:34:26. > :34:30.because he has lost control of the party. The problem is this. He
:34:30. > :34:38.thinks the problems in Europe will end on Friday but they are just
:34:38. > :34:43.beginning. Can he confirm that he is now giving the green light to
:34:43. > :34:50.Conservative Cabinet minister has to campaign on different positions
:34:50. > :34:53.on whether the art for against the European Union? It is so Britain's
:34:53. > :34:56.interests to seek a fresh settlement that is more flexible
:34:56. > :34:59.and competitive and that a is what we will see.
:34:59. > :35:07.Let's stay down at Westminster and speak to our correspondent, David
:35:07. > :35:13.Porter. Let's speak to our commentator Mike Wade again. He is
:35:13. > :35:16.under real pressure from Ed Miliband and is being repeatedly
:35:16. > :35:23.asked about the way cabinet ministers will respond. I am sure
:35:23. > :35:28.there will be an awful lot of the same time pop stuff once he makes
:35:28. > :35:34.that long awaited speech on Friday morning. The chance was that David
:35:34. > :35:38.Cameron had lost control of his party on Europe. Think back to the
:35:38. > :35:46.1990s and all the problems the Conservatives suffered over Europe
:35:46. > :35:50.then. David Cameron said he would be making his vision on how a
:35:50. > :35:55.conservative parliament would deal with Europe in future in his speech
:35:55. > :35:59.on Friday. He does not what to box himself up into a particular
:35:59. > :36:09.position at the moment but you can see what a key political issue
:36:09. > :36:13.Europe is also up -- Europe currently is. The section 30 border
:36:13. > :36:19.was debated yesterday and this afternoon it will be debated in the
:36:19. > :36:29.House of Lords? And about one hour, the House of Lords will be doing
:36:29. > :36:30.
:36:30. > :36:38.what the House of Commons dead yesterday. -- did. It did not even
:36:38. > :36:42.go to a vote yesterday because MPs were in agreement. The government
:36:42. > :36:46.whips are fairly confident that this will go through and next month
:36:46. > :36:51.we'd all go to the Privy Council and then it will be up to the
:36:51. > :36:59.Scottish Parliament to frame the legislation. Everyone thinks that
:36:59. > :37:01.will be in the autumn of 2014. Joining me now there are three
:37:01. > :37:11.Scottish MPs with an interest in this and on the variety of other
:37:11. > :37:15.
:37:15. > :37:19.issues discussed this week. Let's start first with all things
:37:19. > :37:24.Scottish bash the section 30 order which was debated in the House of
:37:24. > :37:28.Commons yesterday. Not a huge amount of disagreement but I think
:37:28. > :37:35.everyone in Scottish politics is now really saying it is time to get
:37:35. > :37:37.on with the referendum campaign? The most important thing now is
:37:37. > :37:41.that the process is over at the Scottish Parliament can legally
:37:41. > :37:47.hold a referendum and we can get to the arguments, which are the
:37:47. > :37:52.important things. No one of our generation will have a bigger
:37:52. > :37:58.decision to make and we have to discuss the real arguments at stake.
:37:58. > :38:02.From the SNP's point of view, some criticisms yesterday that the SNP
:38:02. > :38:07.Government has not said it will be bound by the advice of the
:38:07. > :38:12.Electoral Commission. Why is that? Can I say first that I thought the
:38:12. > :38:21.initial debate was very good and the Secretary of State's, it's
:38:21. > :38:24.perfectly captured the mood of a historic transfer of power. There
:38:24. > :38:30.was some rather intemperate nonsense later a bit dictatorships
:38:30. > :38:32.and I'm sure there will be apologies for that in due course.
:38:33. > :38:42.The Scottish government are now in exactly the same position as the UK
:38:43. > :38:43.
:38:43. > :38:46.Government. The Scottish government will consider that advice. We will
:38:46. > :38:51.look at what the Electoral Commission say before we jumped the
:38:51. > :38:55.gun on everything else falls up how important do you think it is that
:38:55. > :39:03.the parties signed up to what the Electoral Commission will say about
:39:03. > :39:10.the funding of the campaign and the question? To disregard the advice
:39:10. > :39:14.would be damaging to the SNP's position. No British Government has
:39:14. > :39:19.disregarded it, sometimes negotiated but never disregard it.
:39:19. > :39:24.I make my comments yesterday that the SNP should be careful but if
:39:24. > :39:29.they take the advice, what we want is the referendum that everyone has
:39:29. > :39:34.confidence in and where the result will not be challenged by any site.
:39:34. > :39:39.Whoever wins will win and the losers will follow from that. I am
:39:39. > :39:48.not in favour of independence but arm are very much in favour of a
:39:48. > :39:52.clear and independent process. you worried that if there is
:39:52. > :40:00.knottier referendum until 2014, the daughters and Scotland will get a
:40:00. > :40:04.bit fed up with all of this? It is such an important decision, and
:40:04. > :40:09.there is a fairness to the idea that an early referendum has some
:40:10. > :40:12.advantages, but this is the time for a proper debate. There is no
:40:12. > :40:17.bigger decision and there is no going back so we have the
:40:17. > :40:23.opportunity now to talk about the substance. We believe we are better
:40:23. > :40:31.together and will be making that argument strongly. Do you believe
:40:31. > :40:35.we need the length of time that it will take to make this decision?
:40:36. > :40:42.The debate about this process has been interminable for the
:40:42. > :40:45.electorate and very boring. Up we do have a lot to discuss. There are
:40:45. > :40:53.a lot of positive and transformational ideas to get
:40:53. > :40:55.across. Even with Alex Salmond being interviewed this morning, he
:40:55. > :41:01.talked about the written constitution that could enshrine
:41:01. > :41:04.the right to education brought to a home. It is incredibly exciting and
:41:04. > :41:12.unlike my friends here, I am confident people will respond
:41:12. > :41:16.positively. The longer this goes on, the more uncertainty there is and
:41:17. > :41:22.that is damaging, but I agree that we have started the process and it
:41:22. > :41:25.has taken time to get to this point. All credit to the UK Parliament for
:41:25. > :41:32.recognising that we should transfer the power to Scotland which some
:41:32. > :41:37.did not think we would do. The SNP have to recognise there are a lot
:41:37. > :41:42.of questions they cannot answer. Not because they have the
:41:42. > :41:48.intelligence but because it is not under their control. Even when we
:41:48. > :41:52.get to November, 2014, I think there will still be unanswered
:41:52. > :41:55.questions which is why people make cautiously say this is too
:41:55. > :42:05.difficult and will decide positively to stay within the
:42:05. > :42:06.
:42:07. > :42:10.United Kingdom. Do you think we're moving towards having some kind of
:42:10. > :42:16.referendum on Britain's relationship not just with Scotland
:42:16. > :42:20.but with Europe as well? Anyone watching the Prime Minister's
:42:20. > :42:24.Questions today would see the Prime Minister who appears to be a
:42:24. > :42:31.prisoner of his backbenchers. He has been rendered speechless at
:42:31. > :42:40.Brady should see him come out and make this speech. -- Friday should
:42:40. > :42:50.see. How is he going to be able to convince his European partners when
:42:50. > :42:55.it all the rhetoric is about departure from his backbenches?
:42:55. > :43:00.What they referendum on Scotland, you would surely say that with
:43:00. > :43:05.something as important as Europe that the people of United Kingdom
:43:05. > :43:15.or whatever it encompasses at the time should have their chance to
:43:15. > :43:19.have their say on Europe? thought that should have been under
:43:19. > :43:24.the last pilot and Labour did not deliver. We're not talking here
:43:24. > :43:28.about changes coming from Europe that David Cameron might want to
:43:28. > :43:33.consult on falls up we are talking about him that desperate to pander
:43:33. > :43:37.to the right wing of his party. What I am saying is that the only
:43:37. > :43:43.threat to Scotland's place in Europe comes from a right-wing Tory
:43:43. > :43:50.party which want to drag the UK out of Europe under any circumstances,
:43:50. > :43:54.irrespective of what David Cameron might negotiate. I do not expect
:43:54. > :43:59.you to get the Conservative cause any credence. From the Liberal
:43:59. > :44:08.Democrat point of view, you wanted a referendum but the party now
:44:08. > :44:11.seems to be backing away from that? I am in favour of neither reading.
:44:11. > :44:17.We think any decision should be put to the people in their referendum
:44:17. > :44:22.but I do not think we should be having a this in the middle of a
:44:22. > :44:26.negotiation which makes no sense. I do actually agree with both David
:44:26. > :44:32.Miliband and Ed Miliband what is that for Britain to be threatening
:44:32. > :44:36.to leave creates a huge uncertainty for us and is incredibly dangerous.
:44:36. > :44:40.Nick Clegg described it as chilling. There is no place for Britain
:44:40. > :44:50.outside of Europe. Negotiation is fine but threatening to leave will
:44:50. > :44:51.
:44:51. > :44:56.It has been a perishly cold day here. We'll let them get back into
:44:56. > :44:59.the warm. Back to you. You get back inside as well. Thank
:44:59. > :45:03.you very much. Now let's speak to our commentate ore in the studio,
:45:03. > :45:06.Mike Wade. It was interesting to see those exchanges at Prime
:45:07. > :45:10.Minister's Questions. David Cameron under a lot of pressure and the
:45:10. > :45:15.Labour spokesman saying that Mr Cameron is a prisoner of his own
:45:15. > :45:20.backbenchers when it comes to Europe. He is in a lot of trouble.
:45:20. > :45:26.He seems to have - he has so many constituencies to serve, over
:45:26. > :45:29.Europe, it's impossible for him to do the job. You know, he took a
:45:29. > :45:33.call apparently from Angela Merkel at the weekend asking him to change
:45:33. > :45:37.his speech from Sunday to Friday. He has that constituency to serve.
:45:37. > :45:42.That was because it clashed with a French-German celebration. He has
:45:42. > :45:44.his own backbenchers to please. He has business to please. He actually
:45:44. > :45:49.can't serve all those constituencies. He doesn't look
:45:49. > :45:54.like a strong leader at the moment. Very tough for him now. Of course
:45:54. > :45:59.Mr Cameron was attacking lib and saying that they were only dare --
:45:59. > :46:03.Labour and saying they were only daring to debate the process and
:46:03. > :46:07.not the substantive point. referendum on Europe could be a
:46:07. > :46:13.problem for Labour. I'm fairly certain that Labour would go in
:46:13. > :46:17.fairly united. Well not completely but thrust would be support for EU
:46:17. > :46:20.membership, I'm sure of. Of course there are dissenters in Labour.
:46:20. > :46:23.They are not as numerous or difficult as the Tories.
:46:23. > :46:28.interesting point about the dissenters. Ed Miliband kept
:46:28. > :46:33.pushing that point. What would he do with Cabinet ministers? Would
:46:33. > :46:37.they be allowed to dissent? Would there be freedom there? It is
:46:37. > :46:43.amusing Hague is on the other side of the world. There are huge
:46:43. > :46:47.dissepbts and divisions within the Conservative ranks. -- dissents. I
:46:47. > :46:50.really don't think Cameron can do a lot about that. This is a key
:46:50. > :46:55.moment for him. The Scottish point. The SNP there making that point
:46:55. > :46:59.that they had been debating the section 30 order to give Edinburgh
:46:59. > :47:02.the powers to hold the referendum here. He called it boring for the
:47:02. > :47:07.electorate. Now it seems that the parties are getting ready for the
:47:07. > :47:12.real debate. I think that's true. The "yes" campaign, since its
:47:12. > :47:19.launch, hasn't really come up with very much, from where I'm standing.
:47:19. > :47:25.There has ban lot of gripes about the negativity of Better Together
:47:25. > :47:29.but the "yes" campaign hasn't really made the pace yet. Stuart
:47:29. > :47:32.Hosie from his own point of view better be right. They have lost
:47:32. > :47:36.ground and they have gone down in the polls because they have not
:47:36. > :47:40.been making the pace on this. for a taste of yesterday's topical
:47:40. > :47:44.questions at Holyrood. The Health Secretary, Alec Neil explained how
:47:44. > :47:48.access to treatment for people with rare medical conditions in Scotland
:47:48. > :47:54.would be improved. It follow his Government's launch of a �21
:47:54. > :47:59.million found help meet the cost of so-called orphan medicines, used to
:47:59. > :48:04.treat illnesses affecting fewer than one in 2,000 people To ask the
:48:04. > :48:14.Scottish Government how price willing impact on the availability
:48:14. > :48:15.
:48:15. > :48:20.of orphan and ultra-orphan medicines SNP Presiding officer,
:48:21. > :48:27.pricing of medicines is a debatable matter and pricing debates are
:48:27. > :48:29.ongoing. These proposals are being taken place by the Department of
:48:29. > :48:33.Health in England and the pharmaceutical industry throughout
:48:33. > :48:37.the UK. We hope that agreement on a pricing system which reflects the
:48:37. > :48:41.value of medicines, in terms of clinical effectiveness can be
:48:41. > :48:45.approved, along with a wider contribution that that should make
:48:45. > :48:50.to societyal benefit and or meeting unmet needs. In the meantime, work
:48:50. > :48:55.is under way in Scotland it develop a fund to cover the cost of
:48:55. > :48:58.successful individual patient treatment request for high-cost,
:48:58. > :49:04.low-volume orphan medicines which have not been recommended for
:49:04. > :49:08.routine use by the Scottish Medicines Consortium. This report
:49:08. > :49:13.is a response to interim advice by an independent expert who is
:49:13. > :49:16.leading a strand of work, within the new medicines review, to
:49:16. > :49:20.examine the current IPTR arrangements. The fund will cover
:49:20. > :49:24.the cost of orphan medicines for individual patients, for whom there
:49:24. > :49:30.are clear clinical grounds for their prescription through the IPTR
:49:30. > :49:35.arrangements. The fund of �21 million will be available from 1st
:49:35. > :49:40.March 2013 for a period of 13 months until the UK system of value
:49:40. > :49:45.pays pricing is established. The fund is in addition to the existing
:49:45. > :49:48.NHS board funding allocations and it will not be applied
:49:48. > :49:52.retrospectively. Detailed operational arrangements will be
:49:52. > :49:56.developed and will be announced in due course.
:49:56. > :50:01.Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that comprehensive response. In
:50:01. > :50:07.light of what he just said, does the Cabinet Secretary share my
:50:07. > :50:11.concerns that the medicine was offered at a higher cost in
:50:11. > :50:17.Scotland adds it was in England and can he give any insight on the
:50:17. > :50:19.higher price by the decisions made by the Scottish Consortium. I am
:50:19. > :50:27.concerned that any pharmaceutical company would offer their drugs at
:50:27. > :50:32.a more expensive rate than they do south of the border. A decision of
:50:32. > :50:38.the -- detail of the decision will be published on the website.
:50:38. > :50:41.manufacturer of the drug have indicated they will be resubmitting
:50:41. > :50:45.the drugs to the SMP with a patient access scheme as it was in England.
:50:45. > :50:50.Clearly it is a matter for the SMC to carry out the reassessment of
:50:50. > :50:56.the drug once it has been committed. But I would observe that
:50:56. > :51:01.specialised commission groups, who carried out the drugs' assessment
:51:01. > :51:05.during the first assessment were clear that without the patient
:51:05. > :51:12.access scheme discount, the ratio would be mo more than the range
:51:12. > :51:16.that NICE has set out for ultra- orphan drugs. 3013 has been Des
:51:16. > :51:21.ignaid the year of Natural Scotland by the Scottish Government. It is
:51:21. > :51:26.billed as a chance to highlight the country's natural assets.
:51:26. > :51:29.We are joined by the Chief Executive of Scottish natural
:51:29. > :51:33.heritage. Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us.
:51:34. > :51:38.Can you tell me what is proposed about Natural Scotland. What does
:51:38. > :51:42.it mean? OK. It is basically a whole year of events and things
:51:42. > :51:48.tied around promoting Scotland as a place to visit but also a police
:51:48. > :51:53.for people who live here to get out and enjoy -- a place for people who
:51:53. > :51:57.live here to get out and enjoy. Based around the natural
:51:57. > :52:03.environment we have, the landscapes, all the things we are world famous
:52:03. > :52:07.for. What are the key highlights you are pushing in terms of animals
:52:07. > :52:12.and natural highlights and areas of outstanding natural beauty. A few
:52:12. > :52:16.things will happen throughout the year. We'll be launching Scotland's
:52:16. > :52:19.Big Five. Five Scottish animals that people can go out and see. One
:52:20. > :52:23.of the great things about living in Scotland is you can see wildlife
:52:23. > :52:28.very easily. There are seals and deer and all sorts of things that
:52:28. > :52:33.you can go and see. We will be encouraging people to do that We
:52:33. > :52:37.will be having promotions. Visit Scotland are leading for Government
:52:37. > :52:42.on the turnism aspect of this. They will be promoting deals with travel
:52:42. > :52:45.companies to encourage people to get out and visit things. We are
:52:45. > :52:49.developing things like apps for train journeys, so you cannot just
:52:49. > :52:52.sit in the train and watch the countryside go by, but you can
:52:52. > :52:56.learn a bit about what it is you are looking at and what lives there
:52:56. > :53:01.as well. That's an interesting one. That of can make rather boring
:53:01. > :53:05.train journeys perhaps a bit more interesting. Do you think it'll
:53:05. > :53:11.really help Scots get out there and experience natural Scotland? Well,
:53:11. > :53:14.I hope so, obviously. That's a big point, particularly for SNH. What
:53:14. > :53:20.we know is that the number of people who live in Scotland who go
:53:20. > :53:24.out and who enjoy the countryside, it's being going up slowly but very,
:53:24. > :53:27.very slowly. One of the reasons we find that people don't do that is
:53:27. > :53:31.they are not sure where to go. We want to go somewhere where they are
:53:31. > :53:34.going to feel comfortable, they know what they are going to see.
:53:34. > :53:37.They know what will be interesting. And that kind of holds them back a
:53:37. > :53:41.bit at the moment. So this is a really big opportunity for us to
:53:41. > :53:46.work with lots of other people to get that message across, to say -
:53:46. > :53:50.look, it really is easy. And that it doesn't matter whether you live
:53:50. > :53:54.in the north of Scotland or centre of glass go. There are
:53:54. > :53:58.opportunities there. Here is where they are. Here is what you do and
:53:58. > :54:04.to make people feel comfortable. Are you nervous about how this
:54:04. > :54:08.might proceed. We had Year of Homecoming and the year of Creative
:54:08. > :54:14.Scotland which was controversial. Have you got your fingers crossed
:54:14. > :54:19.all will go well? Well, I'm very optimistic. I think we've had a
:54:19. > :54:24.great start. We saw at the end of last year that Scotland came out as
:54:24. > :54:28.one of the places in the world to visit according to CNN. You
:54:28. > :54:31.couldn't get a better start to that. But I know we have a great asset
:54:31. > :54:40.out there. We have wonderful countryside and great wildlife.
:54:40. > :54:43.What's not to like about it? Finally, what inspires you most
:54:43. > :54:47.about Scotland? If spis tors were coming to Scot whrand would you
:54:48. > :54:52.tell them about and urge them to see? What is your favourite thing?
:54:52. > :54:57.I should confess I started life as a marine biologist. I know when
:54:57. > :55:02.people come across from Europe one of the things they are amazed by is
:55:02. > :55:06.our sea shores, our sea birds and how easily it is to see animals
:55:06. > :55:12.like seals and dolphins. You know, quite difficult in many parts of
:55:12. > :55:16.Europe and that's a real eye-opener. I may be biased, I admit but that's
:55:16. > :55:21.the special thing for me. That's great. Thank you very much for
:55:21. > :55:25.coming in to speak to us. Let's get some final thoughts from
:55:25. > :55:29.our political commentator for the afternoon, Mike Wade.
:55:29. > :55:34.Mike, interesting, we have got another year of something in
:55:34. > :55:40.Scotland. How successful do you think this might be? I was
:55:40. > :55:44.greatified that Mr Jardine was so chipper. The year of Creative
:55:44. > :55:49.Scotland ended with the Chief Executive resigning. It was an
:55:49. > :55:54.outstanding success and the Year of Homecoming, also, had a lot of
:55:54. > :55:59.problems. That was in terms of funding. Yes. A lot of companies
:55:59. > :56:02.were left out. It did draw people in, that's true. I think there is
:56:02. > :56:06.another potential risk for the Government in this one. If I was a
:56:06. > :56:12.campaigner on windfarms, I would be using every opportunity this year
:56:12. > :56:18.to draw attention to windfarms. The Council of Scotland are talking
:56:18. > :56:24.about 6,000 turbines planned or in the process of being sited in
:56:24. > :56:30.Scotland. Now it does seem to me that that is at odds, when you
:56:30. > :56:34.think that eight windfarms planned around the Cairngorms, Scotland has
:56:34. > :56:41.very little land in natural parks. That is going to be an issue this
:56:41. > :56:47.year. There is no doubt about it. I had the pleasure of going on a trip
:56:47. > :56:55.with American film journalists, to - they were here, hundreds of them,
:56:55. > :56:59.for the premiere of Brave and we went on to train into the depths of
:57:00. > :57:04.the Highlands and just as Mr Jardine was saying, there wasn't an
:57:04. > :57:09.app, but there were announcements all the way up. You know,
:57:09. > :57:13."Waterfalls here, and mountains here ""But no-one at any point said,
:57:13. > :57:18."There is the windfarm." It was an eversight. You write for the Times.
:57:18. > :57:22.The times tips has been running an interesting series on Whitehall,
:57:22. > :57:26.ministers verses Mandarins, the senior civil servants. That has
:57:26. > :57:32.been interesting. What has been the key finding the times Timms has
:57:32. > :57:35.been trying to point out? -- Times . I think it is Whitehall at war
:57:35. > :57:38.and another chink in David Cameron's armoury. Another one of
:57:38. > :57:45.his weaknesses. What came out yesterday that was picked up and is
:57:45. > :57:48.on the front of our paper today, is the role of the mandarins in
:57:48. > :57:52.Scotland. This was an issue pointed out last year and in particular, at
:57:52. > :57:57.the head of the Civil Service in Scotland. The allegations last year
:57:57. > :58:02.thated' gone native. Now, again coming back to -- that he'd gone
:58:02. > :58:07.naity. Now, again coming back to what Mr Salmond said, the
:58:07. > :58:11.referendum is, quite properly, being organised in Scotland. But
:58:12. > :58:16.that person was raised as a demon yesterday by Mr Darling. I think it
:58:16. > :58:19.is a scare story, to be honest, personally. But the issues are
:58:19. > :58:22.there and they will have to be resolved and they'll play out.
:58:22. > :58:26.Interesting one in the Times this week. Mike Wade, thank you for
:58:26. > :58:31.coming in to speak to us just now. That's all we have time for this
:58:31. > :58:37.afternoon. There is more news and analysis of course here on BBC2