:00:00. > :00:00.Minister of her intention to go for a second referendum on independence.
:00:00. > :00:11.There could be some movement on that, some responses are not even
:00:12. > :00:14.whilst on-air. We will bring you anything that
:00:15. > :00:16.comes. Questions to the First Minister, let us cross to the
:00:17. > :00:18.Chamber and my colleague. Welcome to the Chamber of the Scottish
:00:19. > :00:22.Parliament. We are just getting underway. The general questions have
:00:23. > :00:26.just come to an end. The Presiding Officer is welcoming his guests to
:00:27. > :00:31.the Chamber. Let us cross over and listen to what is happening.
:00:32. > :00:34.We are announcing today that the Scottish Government will donate
:00:35. > :00:38.?200,000 to the appeal. These funds will support agencies to provide
:00:39. > :00:42.vital supplies of food, water and medical treatment to those affected
:00:43. > :00:46.by the famine in South Sudan that was declared by the United Nations
:00:47. > :00:50.on the 20th of February. Later today I will have engages to take forward
:00:51. > :00:54.the Dublin's programme for Scotland. On behalf of my party and myself I
:00:55. > :00:57.thank the First Minister for that answer and welcome the contribution
:00:58. > :01:01.that the Scottish Government is making. Can I ask the First Minister
:01:02. > :01:04.how she can do about this country into another unwanted and divisive
:01:05. > :01:17.referendum when she cannot sort out issues and our local schools?
:01:18. > :01:20.Well, of course, I and the Education Secretary work to close the
:01:21. > :01:26.attainment gap in our schools every day and that will continue to be our
:01:27. > :01:30.priority. But turning to wider issues, the reality here is quite
:01:31. > :01:37.simple. I want to give people in Scotland a choice over their own
:01:38. > :01:42.future. We know that change is coming, the EU referendum last year
:01:43. > :01:47.made that change is inevitable. We know that the Tories want to leaders
:01:48. > :01:52.of the hard cliff edge. I think that the people of Scotland should not
:01:53. > :01:56.have to simply expect to be told what the future is by a Conservative
:01:57. > :01:59.government that we do not support. Instead we should have the choice to
:02:00. > :02:08.choose a better future and that is a choice I intend to give to the
:02:09. > :02:13.people of Scotland. Ruth Davidson. I thank the First Minister for that
:02:14. > :02:17.answer but I wonder if it could have been delivered by the same Aubin he
:02:18. > :02:22.known the question that Edward was not actually mine. It was put to one
:02:23. > :02:30.of my MSPs pervert met by a payment contacted her office. A parent who
:02:31. > :02:32.received a letter from her school headmaster that speak to see every
:02:33. > :02:37.relative could fill in to teach maths because of a lack of cover.
:02:38. > :02:43.And who was furious to see on the very same day, the First Minister of
:02:44. > :02:47.Scotland standing in Bute House, putting her job to one side and
:02:48. > :02:51.threatening to take Scotland back to another divisive referendum on
:02:52. > :02:55.independence. When the First Minister meets parents who are
:02:56. > :02:58.frustrated with the declining standards in schools, how does she
:02:59. > :03:05.explain to them that another referendum will help their child?
:03:06. > :03:10.Let me first to address the situation in the blog are high
:03:11. > :03:15.school. There are, as the Education Secretary has stated many times in
:03:16. > :03:18.this chamber and out a number of different part in the country and in
:03:19. > :03:24.specific subjects where there are challenges with teacher recruitment,
:03:25. > :03:27.that is why we have increased the intake of students to initial
:03:28. > :03:29.teacher education and why we have expanded the range of routes into
:03:30. > :03:34.teaching to make the process faster for these individuals. And, you
:03:35. > :03:39.know, what the situation that Blairgowrie high school has is
:03:40. > :03:44.seeking to identify teachers that are properly registered teachers to
:03:45. > :03:48.come in and teach maths. Of course, the law says that teachers must be
:03:49. > :03:51.properly registered, so we will continue to address the challenges
:03:52. > :03:56.in our education system, as we will continue to address the challenges
:03:57. > :03:59.that exist, whether it is in health, education or any other area and it
:04:00. > :04:02.is because the people of Scotland Seat addressing the challenges that
:04:03. > :04:11.they continue to have confidence in this government to run this country.
:04:12. > :04:16.But on the wider issue again, general, I see it as part of my job
:04:17. > :04:21.to protect Scotland's interests. I see it as part of my job to protect
:04:22. > :04:28.Scotland from the prospects of a hard core rate Brexit. The reality
:04:29. > :04:33.here is this, Ruth Davidson knows that Brexit is going to be a
:04:34. > :04:37.disaster, how do we know that? Because she told us that Brexit was
:04:38. > :04:41.going to be a disaster. But now Ruth Davidson tells us that we have
:04:42. > :04:45.simply got to accept Brexit, not just Brexit, but a hard Brexit,
:04:46. > :04:53.regardless of the consequences. We had the saga study of David Davis
:04:54. > :04:56.saying yesterday that they had not even bothered to do an analysis of
:04:57. > :05:00.the costs of a hard Brexit. Well, luckily analyses have been done by
:05:01. > :05:03.others and we know that the path that the Tories are trying to take
:05:04. > :05:10.this country down could cost every household in this country more than
:05:11. > :05:14.?5,000. So, in answer to Ruth Davidson's question about the impact
:05:15. > :05:17.on young people in our country, the impact of Brexit on everybody in our
:05:18. > :05:22.country is going to be disastrous and that is why I have a duty to
:05:23. > :05:33.allow people the choice to opt for something better. Ruth Davidson.
:05:34. > :05:36.The truth is a referendum will not help pupils in Scotland and it will
:05:37. > :05:42.not help patients come off of waiting lists or stop the GP crisis
:05:43. > :05:46.and it will not cut violent crime. It will just take this government
:05:47. > :05:50.away from the Jopp -- did a job which is supposed to be its focus.
:05:51. > :05:55.Can I tell the First Minister something else that payments are
:05:56. > :05:58.asking? How is independence going to help my school? This morning we read
:05:59. > :06:04.that an independent Scotland would be ?11 billion in the red and would
:06:05. > :06:09.need higher taxes, lower spending and increased borrowing just to fill
:06:10. > :06:13.the gap. The same warnings were given before 2014, the same warnings
:06:14. > :06:17.that this First Minister chose to ignore, so, is it her policy, once
:06:18. > :06:25.again, to ignore the evidence and carry on regardless? First Minister.
:06:26. > :06:31.Scotland has a deficit, like the UK as a deficit. That is a deficit
:06:32. > :06:36.created on Westminster's watch and it is about time we had the tools
:06:37. > :06:41.and the ability to work our way out of deficits that Tory and Labour
:06:42. > :06:47.governments have created in Scotland. But let us look at the
:06:48. > :06:54.alternative to independence, more Tory austerity, Tory austerity
:06:55. > :06:58.extending well into the next decade, cuts to Scotland's budget by the
:06:59. > :07:04.Tories, by the end of this decade will be 10% in real terms. Yesterday
:07:05. > :07:10.Ruth Davidson talked about the day job. Yesterday, we saw the biggest
:07:11. > :07:14.U-turn from the Tories in decades blowing a ?2 billion hole in their
:07:15. > :07:21.budget and because of Brexit, every household in this country could be
:07:22. > :07:25.facing a bill of ?5,000. So I think that Scotland deserves a choice and
:07:26. > :07:31.that choice is this... Take control of our own finances to build, grow
:07:32. > :07:34.and innovate our way to a better future or allow Tories to continue
:07:35. > :07:44.to make the same mistakes over and over again, and make the situation
:07:45. > :07:47.worse. Ruth Davidson. Presiding Officer, the First
:07:48. > :07:52.Minister Closeburn this week not to come before this Parliament to spell
:07:53. > :08:04.out her views on a referendum. But I choose to put this Parliament first.
:08:05. > :08:06.-- chose this week. The Scottish Conservatives reject the proposal
:08:07. > :08:11.set up by the First Minister on Monday. A referendum cannot happen
:08:12. > :08:15.when the people of Scotland have not been given the opportunity to see
:08:16. > :08:18.how our new relationship with the European Union is working, and it
:08:19. > :08:23.should not take place when there is no clear political or public consent
:08:24. > :08:28.for it to happen. Our country does not want to go back to the divisions
:08:29. > :08:31.and uncertainty of the last few years. Another referendum campaign
:08:32. > :08:36.will not solve the challenges that this country will face. We do not
:08:37. > :08:44.want it, we do not need it, why was she not listen? First Minister.
:08:45. > :08:50.Well, I was elected as First Minister less than one year ago.
:08:51. > :08:55.They do not want to hear this. I was elected as First Minister one-year
:08:56. > :09:00.ankle but the highest constituency share of the vote in the history of
:09:01. > :09:05.devolution, any manifesto commitment that said that this Parliament
:09:06. > :09:08.should have the right to hold another referendum if the Tories
:09:09. > :09:15.tried to drag us out of Europe against our will. That 46% share of
:09:16. > :09:19.the vote is ten percentage points higher than the 36% share that the
:09:20. > :09:23.Tories used to have the EU referendum in the first place, and
:09:24. > :09:26.we hear from the Electoral Commission this morning that the
:09:27. > :09:33.vote share they may have got on the 20th of June election was rather
:09:34. > :09:39.dodgy! This Parliament has an independence majority in it as well.
:09:40. > :09:46.So, Ruth Davidson has said that she wants to put this Parliament first,
:09:47. > :09:51.well, let me issue this direct challenge to Ruth Davidson and to
:09:52. > :09:55.the Conservative Party... Desk, on Wednesday next week, this Parliament
:09:56. > :10:02.votes for an independence referendum to give the people of Scotland a
:10:03. > :10:06.choice over their own future, will be Conservatives respect the will of
:10:07. > :10:18.this Parliament? Or are the Conservatives running scared?
:10:19. > :10:24.Question number two, Kezia Dugdale. To ask the First Minister what
:10:25. > :10:27.engagements she has planned for the rest of the week. Engagements to
:10:28. > :10:35.take forward the government's programme for Scotland. Andrew
:10:36. > :10:40.Wilson is responsible for rebuilding the SNP's battered economic case for
:10:41. > :10:44.leaving the UK. This week, it was reported that he told Nicola
:10:45. > :10:49.Sturgeon it could take up to ten years for Scotland's economy to
:10:50. > :10:55.recover if we leave the UK. Does the First Minister think a lost decade
:10:56. > :10:59.if a price worth paying to drag Scotland out of the United Kingdom?
:11:00. > :11:03.Well, the reports that appeared this week about the work of the growth
:11:04. > :11:09.commission were 100% wrong, plain and simple. Andrew Wilson has said
:11:10. > :11:12.that himself. On the contrary to what was reported, the work of the
:11:13. > :11:17.growth commission is looking at how we get from the position we are in
:11:18. > :11:22.right now, saddled with the deficit, created by Labour and Conservative
:11:23. > :11:27.governments down the generations, to a stronger and more sustainable
:11:28. > :11:34.future. And the question, I think, for Kezia Dugdale is this... Is she
:11:35. > :11:37.happy to see Scotland locked in to Tory austerity, not just for the
:11:38. > :11:43.rest of this decade, but into the next decade as well? Is she happy to
:11:44. > :11:49.see Scotland at the mercy of Tory cut after Corrie cup after Tory cut,
:11:50. > :11:56.or this time is she going to stand up for the right of this country to
:11:57. > :12:02.choose a better future for itself? Kezia Dugdale.
:12:03. > :12:05.Presiding Officer, the First Minister is so confident that the
:12:06. > :12:11.contents of that growth commission that she should publish it. But we
:12:12. > :12:19.have been here before. SNP ministers as the one thing publicly and admit
:12:20. > :12:23.another thing in private. We all remember John Swinney's leaked paper
:12:24. > :12:34.which warned of cuts to public services and to our pensions... And
:12:35. > :12:39.now we have Andrew Wilson, who has privately revealed what Nicola
:12:40. > :12:43.Sturgeon refuses to publicly admit. That leaving the UK would be
:12:44. > :12:47.devastating for the economy of Scotland. It would mean even more
:12:48. > :12:51.cuts to schools and hospitals and cuts to those most in need. The
:12:52. > :12:57.First Minister has said this week that she did not want a fact free
:12:58. > :13:00.debate, so let us start with one fact she cannot deny, is it not the
:13:01. > :13:04.case that according to her own government's is this the States that
:13:05. > :13:11.are leading the UK would mean ?15 billion worth of extra cuts? Well,
:13:12. > :13:16.the band is well and truly back together, isn't it? Tory and Labour,
:13:17. > :13:24.combining again to talk this country down. Here is the reality. Scotland
:13:25. > :13:28.had a deficit, created on Westminster's watch and we have to
:13:29. > :13:31.deal with that deficit whether we are independent or not. Isn't it
:13:32. > :13:36.much better to have the tools and the powers of independence to deal
:13:37. > :13:44.with that deficit is consistent with our own values and not Tory values?
:13:45. > :13:50.We face, if we are not independent, years and years and years of Tory
:13:51. > :13:53.austerity. I do not want that for my country and I think it is shameful
:13:54. > :14:00.that Labour now back that for this country. But, you know, Labour is
:14:01. > :14:04.just all over the place on this, they cannot even get their own story
:14:05. > :14:08.straight. We have got Kezia Dugdale telling us that Labour will vote
:14:09. > :14:12.against another referendum. Jeremy Corbyn comes and tells us that UK
:14:13. > :14:19.labour will not vote against another referendum. No wonder Labour's new
:14:20. > :14:27.slogan is, "We are divided enough!" Kezia Dugdale.
:14:28. > :14:31.Presiding Officer, this matters because it is about the money that
:14:32. > :14:36.we have to spend on our public services, and the First Minister
:14:37. > :14:40.used to tell us that education was the defining priority for
:14:41. > :14:45.government. Now even she laughs when journalists ask if that is still the
:14:46. > :14:49.case. The reality is that this government will once again grind to
:14:50. > :14:54.a halt for years. Closing the attainment gap, that is no longer
:14:55. > :14:59.the priority. Fixing the mess that she made of the NHS on the back
:15:00. > :15:05.burner. Investing in the care of the elderly, well, that can wait as
:15:06. > :15:11.well. And the First Minister, can you tell us, do you plan to spend
:15:12. > :15:14.the next two years leading a government or a campaign? First
:15:15. > :15:17.Minister. I will continue as First Minister to lead a government that
:15:18. > :15:22.is focused on making sure we raising standards in schools, continuing to
:15:23. > :15:26.improve the National Health Service. But do you know, all of these things
:15:27. > :15:30.get more difficult if we are subjected year after year to Tory
:15:31. > :15:35.cuts, Tory cuts that are going to be made worse by the hard Brexit that
:15:36. > :15:44.the Tories are pursuing and Labour seem willing to support. It is
:15:45. > :15:46.absolutely shameful that instead of standing up for Scotland, Labour
:15:47. > :15:50.simply support the Conservatives and whatever they want to do. I want
:15:51. > :15:54.this country to take charge of our own future, so that we can build a
:15:55. > :15:59.better country than Labour and the Tories have managed to do will stop
:16:00. > :16:03.so when people have a choice, as I am determined that they will have, a
:16:04. > :16:09.choice to say what kind of future they want, I will be arguing for
:16:10. > :16:14.this country to be in charge of the own finances, in charge of our own
:16:15. > :16:18.future, in charge of building a fair society and the stronger economy.
:16:19. > :16:22.Kezia Dugdale will be on the side of Ruth Davidson and Theresa May, yet
:16:23. > :16:33.again, and her party will continue to die as a result.
:16:34. > :16:40.We have three constituency questions. Firstly, Tavish Scott.
:16:41. > :16:43.The First Minister will be aware that NHS Shetland have decided
:16:44. > :16:48.Shetlanders with medical appointments and Aberdeen must now
:16:49. > :16:54.use the 14 hour overnight ferry service, rather than a 45 minute
:16:55. > :16:58.flight. There has been no consultation. The managing director
:16:59. > :17:03.of Loganair tells me there has been no formal negotiation with the NHS
:17:04. > :17:08.to reduce flight costs and make savings. NHS Shetland last night
:17:09. > :17:16.said they could consider closing units. Can I ask the First Minister
:17:17. > :17:20.to tell her appointed board to reverse this decision until there
:17:21. > :17:24.have been commercial negotiations with Loganair, a public consultation
:17:25. > :17:30.and a full understanding of what any change to the existing Travelers
:17:31. > :17:38.policy would mean for travellers from bins to fear I'll. NHS Shetland
:17:39. > :17:43.has provided assurance that decisions making travel arrangements
:17:44. > :17:47.continued to be clinically led. Patients for whom ferry travel is
:17:48. > :17:53.not appropriate will be offered air travel. It is appropriate that we
:17:54. > :17:59.provide quality direct patient care for the people in Shetland. We will
:18:00. > :18:07.work with them to reduce the need to travel. I will ensure the comments
:18:08. > :18:11.made in the chamber today are conveyed to NHS Highland and I'm
:18:12. > :18:24.sure the Health Secretary would be happy to meet with them to discuss
:18:25. > :18:28.these details more fully. As politicians get more flustered about
:18:29. > :18:36.constitutional politics, back in the real world, people are struggling.
:18:37. > :18:44.Will the First Minister meet with me and union representatives to work to
:18:45. > :18:49.retain jobs in Livingston? We are always happy to meet with unions and
:18:50. > :18:54.representatives of the workforce. We are already engaging with Johnson
:18:55. > :19:01.and Johnson, myself and the economy secretary have engage directly with
:19:02. > :19:06.the company. We are exploring every possible support. The work done so
:19:07. > :19:12.far has been detailed and intensive looking, to address immediate
:19:13. > :19:15.challenges and to maximise future potential at the site. We will
:19:16. > :19:20.continue to give as much support as we can to the workforce. We would be
:19:21. > :19:33.happy to meet with representatives of the workforce at any time. Liz
:19:34. > :19:38.Smith. In light of the recent traffic incidents on the Forth Road
:19:39. > :19:41.Bridge and the serious effect this has had on residents, will the
:19:42. > :19:45.Scottish Government undertake to have urgent talks with transport
:19:46. > :19:49.Scotland to put in place additional measures beside tougher penalties
:19:50. > :19:53.being imposed by the police on offending drivers, so that more is
:19:54. > :19:57.done in the first instance to prevent the blatant disregard of
:19:58. > :20:01.traffic restrictions? This was another very regrettable incident on
:20:02. > :20:04.the Forth Road Bridge. A multi-agency response was quickly
:20:05. > :20:08.put in place to respond to the quarter and it worked effectively to
:20:09. > :20:12.manage the associated travel impact and get the bridge reopened as
:20:13. > :20:16.quickly as possible. Let me thank everybody who worked hard to make
:20:17. > :20:19.sure that happened. Transport Scotland will shortly host a
:20:20. > :20:25.stakeholder conference to discuss what more can be done to prevent
:20:26. > :20:30.these incidents. This will include the traffic Commissioner, Police
:20:31. > :20:34.Scotland, the Forth Bridge operator and representatives from the freight
:20:35. > :20:38.sector. We are committed to the largest road investment programme
:20:39. > :20:43.ever, including the Queensferry crossing project. As part of that
:20:44. > :20:47.investment, wind shielding is being fitted to mitigate any wind related
:20:48. > :20:51.closures on the Newbridge. In terms of the existing bridge, it is
:20:52. > :20:58.important we continue to explore what we can do to avoid people
:20:59. > :21:05.floating the advice and it resulting enclosures that should be completely
:21:06. > :21:10.avoidable. To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the
:21:11. > :21:16.next meeting of the Cabinet? Matters of importance to the people of
:21:17. > :21:19.Scotland. Is it possible an independent Scotland could not only
:21:20. > :21:26.be outside the United Kingdom single market but also outside the European
:21:27. > :21:30.single market to? I want Scotland to be in the European Union, I want
:21:31. > :21:33.Scotland to be in the single market. That's why I think it is important
:21:34. > :21:40.to give people in Scotland that choice. What we know right now
:21:41. > :21:46.beyond any doubt is that if Scotland doesn't become independent, we are
:21:47. > :21:51.not only out of the EU but we will be out of the single market as well.
:21:52. > :21:54.By considering independence, of course, we give ourselves the
:21:55. > :22:02.ability to secure a relationship with Europe and of course to secure
:22:03. > :22:06.the jobs, the investment and collaborations that depend on that.
:22:07. > :22:11.That is by giving people in Scotland the choice is so important. The
:22:12. > :22:16.First Minister dodged the question. It was a simple question. Could we
:22:17. > :22:22.be out of both single markets? The answer is yes. And the reason is
:22:23. > :22:29.less. It is just as difficult to get into the European single market as
:22:30. > :22:33.Phil EU membership. All 27 EU members would need to agree. And we
:22:34. > :22:41.heard from the Spanish government again yesterday. Saw her route
:22:42. > :22:47.guarantees nothing. It is exactly the same hurdle. That is why the
:22:48. > :22:51.First Minister's plans could leave us outside of the UK and EU single
:22:52. > :22:56.market is. If she thought a Conservative hard Brexit was going
:22:57. > :23:03.to be damaging, just wait for this. It is absurd to use the EU as an
:23:04. > :23:10.excuse for another referendum. When there is no guarantee that Scotland
:23:11. > :23:15.could get back into the EU. She is seeking up to the Eurosceptics on
:23:16. > :23:21.her own side was cynically selling out the pro-Europeans on the sly.
:23:22. > :23:27.Why can't she just admit that? Willie Rennie spends most of his
:23:28. > :23:37.time sitting up to the Tories so I will take no lessons from him. --
:23:38. > :23:42.sooking up. I can't believe the brass neck with which Willie Rennie
:23:43. > :23:47.just ask that question. He's one of the politicians, Ruth Davidson is
:23:48. > :23:51.another, Kezia Dugdale is another, that in 2014 look the people of
:23:52. > :23:56.Scotland in the eye and said, if you vote no in the referendum, your
:23:57. > :24:03.membership of the European Union is secure. And if you vote yes,
:24:04. > :24:09.Scotland will not be allowed in. Two and a half years later, we are this
:24:10. > :24:14.Unionist alliance has contrived to make sure we are facing being taken
:24:15. > :24:19.out of the European Union against our will, they have the absolute
:24:20. > :24:24.temerity to stand up again and tried to scare monger that it is
:24:25. > :24:28.independence that is putting our EU membership at risk. It is
:24:29. > :24:35.breathtaking in its hypocrisy. I will tell you this. The people of
:24:36. > :24:41.Scotland will simply not fall for it again. We know from the First
:24:42. > :24:49.Minister that the more she blasters, the more she hides the truth. I ask
:24:50. > :24:56.the question again. Will Scotland be guaranteed to be a full membership
:24:57. > :25:01.member of the European Union or not? Can she guarantee that? If she
:25:02. > :25:06.can't, it's all bluster just again. Independence gives us the ability to
:25:07. > :25:10.be in the EU, to secure our relationship with Europe. Not being
:25:11. > :25:16.independent guarantees we are out of the EU and out of the single market.
:25:17. > :25:22.Do you know, Willie Rennie, who I have to say has a Ph.D. In
:25:23. > :25:26.Gloucester, has a position here that is completely incoherent. Willie
:25:27. > :25:32.Rennie wants there to be a second referendum across the UK to give the
:25:33. > :25:37.people of the whole UK choice, even though he knows that it's not a
:25:38. > :25:41.chance of that happening. But here in Scotland where there is the
:25:42. > :25:46.opportunity for people to have a choice, Willie Rennie is completely
:25:47. > :25:51.opposed to that. According to Willie Rennie, we've just got to accept
:25:52. > :25:56.Tory hard Brexit come what may. What I think it's about time people in
:25:57. > :26:08.Scotland had the choice, so that we can take the future of our own
:26:09. > :26:15.country into our own hands. With the First Minister tell us if
:26:16. > :26:21.discussions were held with the Treasury ahead of the national
:26:22. > :26:26.insurance hike, at the point the realise it broke a manifesto
:26:27. > :26:33.promise, or even after the embarrassing climb-down? There were
:26:34. > :26:38.no discussions with the Treasury about the original policy or other
:26:39. > :26:43.embarrassing U-turn yesterday. The Tories are in complete and utter
:26:44. > :26:49.chaos. We have had lectures, week after week after week from the
:26:50. > :26:53.Tories hear about tax. And yet it was a Tory government that was going
:26:54. > :26:57.to hike taxes up on self-employed people and then of course in a
:26:58. > :27:02.screeching U-turn changed their minds. So we will get on with doing
:27:03. > :27:06.our best to deliver for the people of Scotland, while the Tories
:27:07. > :27:20.continue to descend into utter chaos. This week, I learned that of
:27:21. > :27:22.120 secondments into the Scottish Government, the Association of
:27:23. > :27:32.salmon fishery boards were succumbed eight.
:27:33. > :27:39.Three days a week, he lobbies the government on behalf of of his
:27:40. > :27:44.organisation. Does the First Minister believe this is a healthy
:27:45. > :27:56.development? Will she explain what the purpose is at the heart of
:27:57. > :28:00.government? I think it is right. I know it is not fashionable to
:28:01. > :28:04.consider the views of experts these days, but I think it is right in
:28:05. > :28:08.government that we have expertise from a range of different areas
:28:09. > :28:13.helping to ensure and develop government policy. We do that from a
:28:14. > :28:17.range of different interests, so there is a broad spectrum of
:28:18. > :28:21.expertise feeding into government policy. And happy to correspond with
:28:22. > :28:28.Andy Wightman if he has particular concerns around this. Government is
:28:29. > :28:32.using expertise available across the country is a good thing and should
:28:33. > :28:37.be welcomed. To ask the First Minister how people will be given
:28:38. > :28:46.the opportunity to shape Scotland's new Social Security system. Working
:28:47. > :28:49.alongside people who have themselves got direct personal experience of
:28:50. > :28:53.the current Social Security system. We want to hear directly from them
:28:54. > :28:59.about what works, what needs improved and what our new system
:29:00. > :29:06.needs to do to better support them. From today, people across Scotland
:29:07. > :29:15.will receive letters inviting them to join the experience panel which
:29:16. > :29:19.will shape our new system. 18,000 people will receive that invitation.
:29:20. > :29:23.I hope people will take the opportunity to be part of building a
:29:24. > :29:35.new Social Security system in Scotland which will have fearless,
:29:36. > :29:37.security and respect at its heart. To ask the First Minister what
:29:38. > :29:44.guidance the Scottish Government has issued regarding use of the Pupil
:29:45. > :29:56.Equity Fund. The Deputy First Minister announced in February the
:29:57. > :30:01.draft national guidance. The guidance sets out clear principles
:30:02. > :30:04.to support schools and local authorities, to work in partnership
:30:05. > :30:09.and plan how to effectively invest the additional ?120 million to raise
:30:10. > :30:13.attainment and close the attainment gap. We have been clear that this
:30:14. > :30:17.funding must be used at the discretion of head teachers and must
:30:18. > :30:22.be additional to existing provision and cannot be top slice for other
:30:23. > :30:25.purposes. It must be used to improve the educational outcomes of children
:30:26. > :30:39.most affected by poverty. The First Minister will be aware of
:30:40. > :30:43.this matter. The Pupil Equity Fund is intended to go directly to
:30:44. > :30:47.headteachers for the most deprived children in Scotland to help address
:30:48. > :30:51.the attainment gap. Does the First Minister share my concern is that
:30:52. > :30:59.this is an abhorrent proposal from the Labour council? First Minister.
:31:00. > :31:03.I am indeed aware of the issues raised in relation to North
:31:04. > :31:08.Lanarkshire people equity funding and I am particularly disappointing
:31:09. > :31:12.that the labour council has chose to cut classroom assistants, making
:31:13. > :31:16.that decision on the 23rd of February, despite the options open
:31:17. > :31:21.to them to avoid this. The expectation that headteachers should
:31:22. > :31:25.then subsidise this cut with their people equity funding is simply
:31:26. > :31:28.unacceptable. These issues have been raised with the council and
:31:29. > :31:33.discussions are continuing, and I very much hope that the council will
:31:34. > :31:37.reconsider its approach. -- pupil. I think it is very important to be
:31:38. > :31:41.clear, the Scottish Government will only release this funding of the
:31:42. > :31:44.Council agrees that it goes to the schools as intended and that it is
:31:45. > :31:50.not used by them to pay for existing resources. Anything else would quite
:31:51. > :31:57.frankly be a betrayal of the disadvantaged children of North
:31:58. > :32:03.Lanarkshire. Iain Gray. Presiding Officer, North Lanarkshire
:32:04. > :32:10.Council is facing a ?27 million cut to their core budget. They are
:32:11. > :32:16.trying to protect and enhance the jobs of over 200 classroom
:32:17. > :32:23.assistants to raise attainment and close the gap. They are supported by
:32:24. > :32:32.Unison and by the headteachers, 77 of whom have written to the Deputy
:32:33. > :32:39.First Minister to say that. In response, the Scottish Government is
:32:40. > :32:44.threatening to cut almost ?9 million more from their budget. Can the
:32:45. > :32:46.First Minister explain how this politically motivated blackmail is
:32:47. > :32:55.supposed to help schoolchildren in North Lanarkshire? First Minister.
:32:56. > :32:59.Well, Iain Gray interestingly omitted to tell us something else
:33:00. > :33:04.that North Lanarkshire Council is choosing to do, it is choosing to
:33:05. > :33:10.freeze its council tax next year. So, clearly, having asked us for the
:33:11. > :33:15.ability to put the council that up, they decide they do not need that
:33:16. > :33:19.money, instead they are going to try to pilfer resources from the Pupil
:33:20. > :33:25.Equity Fund. Now, this Parliament was very clear that the people
:33:26. > :33:28.equity funding, ?120 million of it, was money to go direct to schools to
:33:29. > :33:33.be used at the discretion of headteachers. And Iain Gray tells us
:33:34. > :33:38.that apparently there are people who support the approach of the council,
:33:39. > :33:42.the Association of the education, I understand it, do not support the
:33:43. > :33:49.approach of the council, so this is quite simple. This is money that we
:33:50. > :33:53.want to give direct to headteachers, direct to schools, but North
:33:54. > :33:58.Lanarkshire Council wants to use it for something else. So, we are
:33:59. > :34:02.determined that this money is going direct to schools, and I think it is
:34:03. > :34:06.utterly shameful that Labour are defending an approach that would see
:34:07. > :34:16.that money used by North Lanarkshire the fun things that it is their
:34:17. > :34:20.responsibility to fund. -- fund. Thank you, can I ask the First
:34:21. > :34:23.Minister, in light of this controversy, what measures will be
:34:24. > :34:26.put in place to assess the key principles behind the Pupil Equity
:34:27. > :34:30.Fund, namely that headteachers will have access to the film and that the
:34:31. > :34:34.spending must be on additional activities to those currently
:34:35. > :34:39.employed will be adhered to. The guidance I referred to in my first
:34:40. > :34:43.answer is they are to ensure that there are clear principles guiding
:34:44. > :34:47.how this money is used and that we are then able to monitor and assess
:34:48. > :34:52.the benefits of this money. Let us get back to the core issue. Rightly
:34:53. > :34:56.and understandably, members of the opposition come to this chamber and
:34:57. > :35:02.I have no complaint about this, and raised the issue of the attainment
:35:03. > :35:09.gap. I have repeatedly said, closing that gap is my priority. That is why
:35:10. > :35:15.we have set up a Pupil Equity Fund of ?120 million that is being
:35:16. > :35:19.directed to schools to help particularly young people living in
:35:20. > :35:24.disadvantaged circumstances. That is what this is all about. And that is
:35:25. > :35:28.why it is so deeply concerning that we have a local authority that sees
:35:29. > :35:32.the opportunity just to cut something in its budget and
:35:33. > :35:37.substitute that cut with money from the people equity funding. That is
:35:38. > :35:40.not what it is for. That is not what it is about. And if that approach is
:35:41. > :35:45.allowed to continue, frankly that is a betrayal of the most disadvantaged
:35:46. > :35:48.pupils in North Lanarkshire that are meant to benefit from this fund, and
:35:49. > :35:57.that's First Minister, I am not prepared to allow that to happen.
:35:58. > :36:00.Question number five, Annie Wells. Thank you, to ask the First Minister
:36:01. > :36:05.what action the Scottish Government is taking to tackle gun crime? The
:36:06. > :36:08.number of recorded crimes and offences in Scotland involving
:36:09. > :36:13.firearms has fallen by nearly three quarters in ten years and firearms
:36:14. > :36:20.crimes when a person was killed or injured fell by over 25% between
:36:21. > :36:24.2014, 2015 and 2016. The government has taken action, we have some of
:36:25. > :36:27.the strongest legislation in the world regarding firearms and a
:36:28. > :36:32.strengthened that with the nuclear weapons licensing regime. We are
:36:33. > :36:36.committed to tackling gun crime and clearing up rates for these offences
:36:37. > :36:40.remain high. There is no room for complacency, recent incidents show
:36:41. > :36:42.that we must keep this under review and continue to address gun crime
:36:43. > :36:48.wherever it occurs in our communities. I thank the First
:36:49. > :36:51.Minister for that answer. This will unfortunately come of little
:36:52. > :36:54.consolation to the people of Glasgow, a city which has seen five
:36:55. > :37:02.separate incidents of serious gun crime in the past 12 months. And we
:37:03. > :37:06.know that between 2014 and 2015 and 2015 and 2016, cases of attempted
:37:07. > :37:10.murder and serious assaults increased in Scotland by 27% and we
:37:11. > :37:14.know that despite this being mostly targeted attacks, these crimes are
:37:15. > :37:17.taking place in the streets, with one in particular in Glasgow
:37:18. > :37:20.happening outside of a primary school. What conversation will be
:37:21. > :37:24.First Minister now have with Police Scotland to ensure that these crimes
:37:25. > :37:32.do not take place on our streets and innocent bystanders are not put at
:37:33. > :37:34.risk? These are the important issues and let me be clear, both high and
:37:35. > :37:38.the Justice Secretary periodically are updated and briefed by police on
:37:39. > :37:42.some of the types of incidents that she is referring to and updated on
:37:43. > :37:46.the work that the police is doing to try to combat these kind of
:37:47. > :37:52.offences. It is important to reiterate that gun crime generally
:37:53. > :37:57.is falling, fallen as I have said by nearly three quarters in the last
:37:58. > :38:04.ten years, and crime, where a person was killed or injured by a firearm,
:38:05. > :38:09.that fell by 25% between 2014 and 2015, 2015 and 20 16. The incident
:38:10. > :38:12.referred to in Glasgow, that as it is a constituency I represent and
:38:13. > :38:17.they are deeply concerning. One happened in my own constituency.
:38:18. > :38:25.According to the police, these are targeted incidents linked to serious
:38:26. > :38:27.and organised. That makes it very important that the police continue
:38:28. > :38:29.to use the resources and intelligence that they have two
:38:30. > :38:33.properly deal with these offences and bring to justice those that are
:38:34. > :38:35.responsible. These are important issues that I and the Justice
:38:36. > :38:42.Secretary will continue to be updated on by the police, but I do
:38:43. > :38:44.not think that we should allow this to take us away from the fact that
:38:45. > :38:48.they generally gun crime is falling. That is a good thing, we must not be
:38:49. > :38:51.complacent but that should give reassurance to communities
:38:52. > :38:55.throughout the country. Question six, Daniel Johnson. To ask the
:38:56. > :38:59.first Mr Harvie Scottish Government will ensure that unit assessment
:39:00. > :39:02.will not make changes to teacher workload in light of the fact that
:39:03. > :39:08.63% of teachers believe that they will. The changes to the
:39:09. > :39:11.qualifications were announced by the Deputy First Minister following
:39:12. > :39:14.discussions with the assessment and national qualifications group and
:39:15. > :39:17.the Curriculum for Excellence Management board. The Scottish
:39:18. > :39:19.Secretary 's teachers Association who survey is referred to as
:39:20. > :39:24.represented on both groups. The changes mean that teachers and young
:39:25. > :39:28.people will not have to undertake formal dinner assessments during the
:39:29. > :39:32.year, this is what teachers told us was significantly contributing to
:39:33. > :39:36.workload and indeed the moves were welcomed by teaching unions last
:39:37. > :39:39.year. We continue to work with partners, including the SQA,
:39:40. > :39:42.education Scotland and teacher unions to ensure that workload is
:39:43. > :39:46.reduced as a result of these changes. The assessment and national
:39:47. > :39:50.qualifications group is in fact meeting this afternoon and will
:39:51. > :39:54.continue to discuss the application of the changes. I thank the First
:39:55. > :39:58.Minister for that answer. John Swinney came into his job promising
:39:59. > :40:01.to slash teacher workload and Gordon but the survey reveals that teachers
:40:02. > :40:05.think that the changes the unit assessment will increase, not
:40:06. > :40:08.decrease the workload, and especially in science. Can I ask the
:40:09. > :40:12.First Minister what worked and assessment has been made to make
:40:13. > :40:15.sure that these measures will have a positive impact on workload and can
:40:16. > :40:21.she reassured the Chamber that this will not simply leads to another
:40:22. > :40:23.embarrassing backtrack and Italy, arising from ill thought through
:40:24. > :40:29.reforms from the Deputy First Minister? Well, I am not sure if
:40:30. > :40:32.Daniel Johnson listens to the first answer I gave to him, he would have
:40:33. > :40:38.found the answer in the response that I give to him. The reforms that
:40:39. > :40:42.he talks about as being ill informed and misjudged where what the teacher
:40:43. > :40:47.unions wanted to see in order to play a part, they are not the only
:40:48. > :40:49.changes that have been made to reduce teacher workload and
:40:50. > :40:54.unnecessary bureaucracy that teachers have to deal with, but they
:40:55. > :40:57.are an important part of that. That is the intention of them, but
:40:58. > :41:00.clearly in doing that, it is important that steps are taken to
:41:01. > :41:05.make sure that the integrity of the exam system is not undermined. But
:41:06. > :41:10.as I said earlier in terms of the question about what we are doing, I
:41:11. > :41:13.referred to a meeting this very day of the assessment and national
:41:14. > :41:24.qualifications group to make sure that the concerns that have been
:41:25. > :41:26.shown in the survey that he refers to do not materialise, that these
:41:27. > :41:29.changes that have that intention actually turn out to deliver that in
:41:30. > :41:32.reality. We will continue to what the teachers and others to make sure
:41:33. > :41:33.that is the case and they would have thought that Daniel Johnson would
:41:34. > :41:35.welcome that. Thank you, Presiding Officer. The
:41:36. > :41:39.fact that this government has listened to the concerns of teachers
:41:40. > :41:42.about workload is welcome for them and children and you and people. Can
:41:43. > :41:47.be First Minister tell us what other measures have been taken to free up
:41:48. > :41:52.the time of teachers to teach? Addressing the issue of workload, as
:41:53. > :41:56.I said to Daniel Johnson, has been a priority for the Deputy First
:41:57. > :42:00.Minister. Literally, thousands of pages of guidance had been stripped
:42:01. > :42:04.away and a teacher panel was established to test proposals to
:42:05. > :42:08.reduce workload, proposals that go beyond the ones that are subject of
:42:09. > :42:12.this question. Last year, every teacher in Scotland was sent a clear
:42:13. > :42:16.and concise statement on the Curriculum for Excellence along with
:42:17. > :42:19.the benchmark guidance on literacy and numeracy and that definitive
:42:20. > :42:23.guidance makes it clear what teachers should and should not be
:42:24. > :42:26.required to do. So, we are determined to take the actions that
:42:27. > :42:29.will free up teachers from unnecessary bureaucracy and what
:42:30. > :42:41.code, we are determined to free them up to do what
:42:42. > :42:45.they do best, that is to raise the bar for all and close the attainment
:42:46. > :42:48.gap in our schools. Thank you. We have heard today from
:42:49. > :42:50.the SSTA that there is now a crisis in recruiting head teachers because
:42:51. > :42:52.of the workload. Would the First Minister agree with me that the
:42:53. > :42:54.Scottish Government's claim to be committed to reducing teacher and
:42:55. > :42:59.head teacher's workload is not happening and that there is a real
:43:00. > :43:01.threat now that we will lack leadership skills because people
:43:02. > :43:08.simply will not apply to become headteachers? No, I do not agree
:43:09. > :43:13.with that. I fundamentally disagree with that. We have listened to
:43:14. > :43:16.teachers, including headteachers and we have taken the steps, some of
:43:17. > :43:22.which I have outlined here today, that will reduce unnecessary and I
:43:23. > :43:25.stress the word unnecessary, workload for teachers. We are doing
:43:26. > :43:29.that in partnership with teachers, and I understand that as we go
:43:30. > :43:32.through that, we will hear scepticism, as we have from the SSTA
:43:33. > :43:36.about the effect that these changes will have, but it is our job to make
:43:37. > :43:40.sure that these changes are implemented anyway that will have
:43:41. > :43:44.the desired effect. So we are listening, we are introducing these
:43:45. > :43:45.changes, and as I have said previously, we are getting on with
:43:46. > :44:03.the leading these changes so we make an appreciable
:44:04. > :44:05.difference to the workload of teachers in our schools across the
:44:06. > :44:07.country. Thank you, that includes First
:44:08. > :44:09.Minister's Questions. And there we have it, the end of questions to the
:44:10. > :44:12.First Minister. As I suggested earlier, breaking news, you had the
:44:13. > :44:15.position of Ruth Davidson. We gather that the position of the Tories and
:44:16. > :44:17.the UK Government will be to say no to the first Mr's detailed proposals
:44:18. > :44:19.on a referendum. She suggested a referendum between the autumn of
:44:20. > :44:22.2018 and the spring of 2019. We gather that shortly the Prime
:44:23. > :44:26.Minister will turn that down, she is not saying never, but we gather she
:44:27. > :44:32.is saying no to that time table and the argument will be that we have to
:44:33. > :44:35.allow Brexit to happen, that is at minimum spring 2019 and the
:44:36. > :44:40.Conservatives will then argue further that there must be a period
:44:41. > :44:43.of alarming Brexit to settle down, so that Scots, when and if they take
:44:44. > :44:47.that decision, are taking it in the full knowledge of what has happened
:44:48. > :44:52.with regard to Brexit. Let us talk about that with two colleagues from
:44:53. > :44:56.the press, thank you both for joining us. This is incredible
:44:57. > :45:00.stuff. It is going to be a very strong statement from Theresa May,
:45:01. > :45:04.clearly they have decided to call the bluff of Nicola Sturgeon any
:45:05. > :45:07.more robustly that many of us had anticipated. Not only is she telling
:45:08. > :45:10.her that you're not having a referendum on the Tyne skill, she's
:45:11. > :45:18.not presenting an alternative, which one is they might have said, let us
:45:19. > :45:20.talk about it in a one-year time or two years' time. Michael Ellis
:45:21. > :45:31.saying it will not happen until after that. They are not giving a
:45:32. > :45:36.certainly not now. It is a not now, but not never. We have now, all the
:45:37. > :45:40.speculation will be on when and that will continue to drag on and on.
:45:41. > :45:47.What we do not know is whether this could even go on to the next
:45:48. > :45:50.Holyrood election or beyond. Some in the Conservative ranks have said
:45:51. > :45:54.that Nicola Sturgeon should seek a fresh mandate. Others have said that
:45:55. > :45:59.is not the approach to date. What do you make of that? That is a much
:46:00. > :46:03.trickier position to adopt. Nicola Sturgeon does have a mandate to call
:46:04. > :46:07.the referendum of the UK with the EU against the wishes of Scotland, but
:46:08. > :46:10.the problem is that Nicola Sturgeon does not have popular support for a
:46:11. > :46:14.referendum now and that is what the UK Government is banking on. The
:46:15. > :46:22.pressure will be on the SNP, the Yes movement and the Scottish Government
:46:23. > :46:25.to converge and convert the Scots who believe in independence but not
:46:26. > :46:28.now, we do want it now, they will have to switch it around and put the
:46:29. > :46:30.UK Government under pressure to reverse what Theresa May is saying
:46:31. > :46:32.now. Theresa May is also gambling that she has called the Scottish
:46:33. > :46:46.population segments correctly. We can go now to hear directly from
:46:47. > :46:52.the Prime Minister. Nothing is more important to me than seeing the
:46:53. > :46:55.United Kingdom thrive. Our precious union of Nations is the most
:46:56. > :47:00.successful the world has ever seen. We have been joined together as one
:47:01. > :47:05.country for over 300 years. Worked together and prosper together. We
:47:06. > :47:10.have a bright future. A bright future for us all. That is why, as
:47:11. > :47:14.we embark on the process of negotiating a new relationship with
:47:15. > :47:17.the European Union, I am going to be fighting for every person, every
:47:18. > :47:23.family and every business across the whole of the United Kingdom. That is
:47:24. > :47:26.my focus. I think it should be the focus of us all. When the SNP
:47:27. > :47:31.Government say it is the time to start talking about a second
:47:32. > :47:37.independence referendum, I say that just at this point, all our energy
:47:38. > :47:41.should be focused on our negotiations with the European Union
:47:42. > :47:44.about our future relationship. To be talking about an independence
:47:45. > :47:48.referendum would I think make it more difficult for us to get the
:47:49. > :47:54.right deal for Scotland and the UK. More than that, I think it would not
:47:55. > :48:00.be fair to the people of Scotland because they would be asked to make
:48:01. > :48:07.a crucial decision without knowing all the information. Just now, we
:48:08. > :48:12.should be putting all our energies into ensuring we get that right deal
:48:13. > :48:16.for the UK and the right deal for Scotland, in our negotiations with
:48:17. > :48:20.the European Union. Is my job as Prime Minister. Right now, we should
:48:21. > :48:24.be working together, not pulling apart. We should be working together
:48:25. > :48:29.to get that right deal for Scotland, the right deal for the UK. That is
:48:30. > :48:38.my job as Prime Minister. For that reason, I say to the SNP now is not
:48:39. > :48:41.the time. Now is not the time, says the Prime Minister. You will recall
:48:42. > :48:47.the constitution is reserved to the United Kingdom in the Scotland Act
:48:48. > :48:52.of 1998. That means that issues like a referendum are reserved to
:48:53. > :48:56.Westminster. In 2014, there was a transfer under section 30 of the
:48:57. > :49:02.Scotland Act that granted temporary power to the Scottish Parliament to
:49:03. > :49:09.hold the referendum and by the end of 2014. The Prime Minister is not
:49:10. > :49:12.saying that at this point. She is turning down the proposal from
:49:13. > :49:18.Nicola Sturgeon. She is saying it could happen later but not in the
:49:19. > :49:22.timescale set out by the First Minister. Which will obviously anger
:49:23. > :49:29.the First Minister considerably. What you make of that? Theresa May
:49:30. > :49:34.is following through on a robust talk she gave at the Scottish Tory
:49:35. > :49:40.conference in Glasgow several weeks ago. What she is risking her own
:49:41. > :49:43.position. She will now be under immense pressure from Nicola
:49:44. > :49:47.Sturgeon and the SNP to prove how Brexit will benefit Scotland. The
:49:48. > :49:53.question about a Brexit dividend will become foremost in the debate.
:49:54. > :49:57.Unless the Tories can ensure that Scotland will benefit from this,
:49:58. > :50:04.they will start losing ground quite quickly. The Prime Minister is
:50:05. > :50:10.saying that Scotland and the UK is too divided to contemplate another
:50:11. > :50:16.issue, but it could be said that that division is a consequence and
:50:17. > :50:20.results from initiatives taken from the Conservative government. Which
:50:21. > :50:25.is what I am sure that the First Minister and other Yes campaigners
:50:26. > :50:29.will see. Why is the Prime Minister making this rather risky gambit
:50:30. > :50:33.because the polls show consistently that a majority of people in
:50:34. > :50:41.Scotland don't actually want a second referendum in the immediate
:50:42. > :50:43.future. We saw Ruth Davidson in First Minister's Questions going in
:50:44. > :50:52.on that very point saying Nicola Sturgeon will be focusing a campaign
:50:53. > :50:59.but she should be leading a government and focusing on domestic
:51:00. > :51:03.issues. The Prime Minister doesn't know what situation she will be in
:51:04. > :51:07.in two or three years and whether that will be a more auspicious time
:51:08. > :51:16.for her to agree to a referendum plan now. Is there any way of
:51:17. > :51:22.suggesting what date the Prime Minister has in mind? She is not
:51:23. > :51:30.giving a date. She has to said that Brexit has to settle down. It
:51:31. > :51:36.doesn't look like 2019. The process of holding the referendum has a long
:51:37. > :51:40.tail. You have to look at the section 30 order. You have to get
:51:41. > :51:47.the legislation through Westminster and the Scottish Parliament. Then
:51:48. > :51:56.you need a minimum of six months. If you work backwards, you can add on
:51:57. > :52:06.Brexit in March 2019. Then a year. Start negotiations in March 2020.
:52:07. > :52:11.She doesn't want to address this at all. She is taking this into a
:52:12. > :52:21.different playing field, not just the long grass. What options are
:52:22. > :52:25.open to the Scottish Government? The first thing that will happen is that
:52:26. > :52:30.next week we have a debate in the Scottish Parliament for which the
:52:31. > :52:36.First Minister and the Scottish people will ask for Holyrood support
:52:37. > :52:40.for a section 30 order. That is next week. One assumes that will go
:52:41. > :52:44.ahead. It will be part of a campaign to ratchet up pressure that I am
:52:45. > :52:52.sure we will see on going to say there is a democratic mandate in
:52:53. > :52:57.Scotland and they will use that vote to demonstrate support for a second
:52:58. > :53:02.referendum in Scotland. Then Theresa May will be left to respond to that.
:53:03. > :53:07.It also gives the Scottish Government a chance to start laying
:53:08. > :53:13.the groundwork for changing public opinion. There are risks on both
:53:14. > :53:17.side of the strategy. Could Government go ahead with a
:53:18. > :53:24.referendum anyway, one that doesn't have the backing of statute, or
:53:25. > :53:30.might it suit them better politically to have that battle with
:53:31. > :53:34.the UK Government ending in a mutual referendum? Technically, they could
:53:35. > :53:40.have an indicative referendum with no legal basis. They would have a
:53:41. > :53:46.problem securing Scottish Government funding for that. There was a
:53:47. > :53:52.discussion under the first Alex Salmond administration about how
:53:53. > :54:01.they might do that. Legally that is difficult. Politically, it is a huge
:54:02. > :54:09.gamble. Imagine if they had such a referendum and lost. That would be
:54:10. > :54:11.deeply embarrassing. The referendum campaign will have to start
:54:12. > :54:13.maximising every single possible reason for getting angry and
:54:14. > :54:29.annoyed. Illegal funding of election
:54:30. > :54:39.campaigns. Then there will be ratcheting it up. Is it feasible
:54:40. > :54:52.that the Prime Minister is hoping this all goes our way? Audio think
:54:53. > :54:57.she accepts it will go ahead but just in a different timescale? If
:54:58. > :55:04.she did think that, I'm sure she will learn over the next few hours
:55:05. > :55:10.that will not be the case. The whole issue of Brexit, the Scottish
:55:11. > :55:17.Government will use that to ratchet up pressure on Westminster, but it
:55:18. > :55:24.does have some tricky issues of its own on the EU. The Liberal Democrats
:55:25. > :55:31.were talking about this issue of the fact that the Scottish Government
:55:32. > :55:33.and the SNP, while using Brexit as a justification for calling a second
:55:34. > :55:41.referendum, are now stopping short of committing to EU membership as a
:55:42. > :55:47.result of a yes vote in an independence referendum. He tried to
:55:48. > :55:51.put Nicola Sturgeon on the spot by saying, can you guarantee the people
:55:52. > :56:02.Scotland will not find themselves outside two unions, the UK and the
:56:03. > :56:06.EU? He said she was sooking up to Eurosceptics. And she replied
:56:07. > :56:16.saying, you are sooking up to the Tories. Nicola Sturgeon is talking
:56:17. > :56:21.about a relationship with Europe and connections with Europe, rather than
:56:22. > :56:36.mentioning membership. The question from Willie Rennie was acute. A
:56:37. > :56:45.third of SNP voters voted to leave. Alex Neil voted to leave. Nicola
:56:46. > :56:49.Sturgeon has to work out what is the best type of membership for Scotland
:56:50. > :56:58.to satisfy her desire to re-engage with the single market. The UK
:56:59. > :57:04.Government is right to point out, and this is a word used by one
:57:05. > :57:08.adviser to me yesterday, it is a ludicrous position for Nicola
:57:09. > :57:14.Sturgeon to say we are calling a referendum because you are taking us
:57:15. > :57:20.out of the EU against our will, but at the end of the referendum we are
:57:21. > :57:25.not going to rejoin the EU. The Scottish Government has said, our
:57:26. > :57:39.policy was and remains membership of the European Union. There has been
:57:40. > :57:44.talk perhaps of Scotland joining the European Economic Area and the free
:57:45. > :57:49.trade Association as a kind of in to run situation. But it is not clear
:57:50. > :57:52.whether that would, as Willie Rennie was driving at in his question,
:57:53. > :57:59.whether that would be easier than joining the EU as a whole or if that
:58:00. > :58:04.interim arrangement was reached, how long it could go on for and whether
:58:05. > :58:12.there would subsequently be yet another referendum on rejoining the
:58:13. > :58:16.EU. Excellent. Thank you both for joining me on this remarkable
:58:17. > :58:20.programme. We have a statement from the Prime Minister to the earlier
:58:21. > :58:25.demand from the First Minister for the referendum on independence.
:58:26. > :58:29.After we get tidied up Scotland is coming out
:58:30. > :58:31.of the European Union But Alan Little asks whether
:58:32. > :58:36.Brexit could break up Britain too. Which union do you want
:58:37. > :58:38.to leave more? The British one
:58:39. > :58:47.or the European one? If anything were to happen to her,
:58:48. > :58:48.Charlie... The psychiatrist was a figment
:58:49. > :58:50.of his imagination. You never live in the moment
:58:51. > :58:57.any more. Can we find her
:58:58. > :59:03.before he does something? If anything were to happen to her,
:59:04. > :59:09.Charlie...