:00:24. > :00:29.A very warm welcome from the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood.
:00:29. > :00:34.Questions for the First Minister today. They can ask pretty much
:00:34. > :00:39.anything they like. Today, the main topic will come at least from one
:00:39. > :00:44.of the opposition leaders. It will be the row between First Minister
:00:44. > :00:54.and the leader of the UK Supreme Court. -- Supreme Court. Let's see
:00:54. > :00:56.
:00:56. > :01:00.if that comes up. They are a keen bunch today. Let's listen end.
:01:00. > :01:05.attack by the First Minister on one of Scotland's most senior judges.
:01:05. > :01:15.The political editor of the Times said, the First Minister has
:01:15. > :01:20.
:01:20. > :01:26.finally lost the plot. Well, has he? No. That was a mild comment
:01:26. > :01:30.following on from the comments by the First Minister in his Holyrood
:01:30. > :01:36.interview. The First Minister is in danger of losing the plot and any
:01:36. > :01:41.argument he might actually have by prosecuting it in this way. The
:01:41. > :01:47.former Deputy Leader of the SNP called the remarks undignified,
:01:47. > :01:52.foolish and juvenile, this morning. In those remarks, the First
:01:52. > :01:59.Minister said, at least I went to the bother of getting elected. That
:01:59. > :02:09.is true. These crass, personal attacks demean the office to which
:02:09. > :02:12.
:02:12. > :02:16.he was elected. Will he retract them? I conducted an interview two
:02:16. > :02:21.weeks ago when we were engaged in the vigorous debate on these
:02:21. > :02:26.matters. Since then I have appointed under Lord McCluskey, a
:02:26. > :02:29.panel of people of eminence and expertise, to advise this
:02:29. > :02:34.Parliament and have their fees debated by Parliament so we can
:02:35. > :02:41.address the underlying issue. I think that is the way to do this. I
:02:41. > :02:44.look forward to the McCluskey report. I was interested. When Ian
:02:44. > :02:49.asked the first question, it did strike there was something about
:02:49. > :02:55.the losing the plot business. By happen chance, I had no prior
:02:55. > :03:02.knowledge of that question, I came across this quote from the Guardian
:03:02. > :03:11.on 15th May, 2003. David Blunkett sparked with the judges over the
:03:11. > :03:18.sentencing powers let to new depths yesterday. He was accused of losing
:03:18. > :03:25.the plot. We all have the right of fair comment. I am interested that
:03:25. > :03:34.the memory of Iain Gray of his colleagues in London and the
:03:34. > :03:40.ramifications of is not as perfect. My view that these remarks were
:03:40. > :03:46.inappropriate is not one I hold a loan. I think we have seen comments
:03:46. > :03:50.that these statements were crude, ignorant, embarrassing. That is not
:03:50. > :03:55.my judgment, it is the judgment of commentators and the legal
:03:55. > :04:00.establishment. It is no answer to say, if you are the First Minister
:04:00. > :04:06.of Scotland, this is something I said two weeks ago when I was in a
:04:06. > :04:12.bad mood. The truth is, this has spiralled out of control. It
:04:12. > :04:17.started with the new constitutional grandstanding and led to gratuitous
:04:17. > :04:21.attacks on judges, courts, glorious and even newspapers who dared to
:04:21. > :04:25.question the First Minister. It has brought us to an extraordinary
:04:25. > :04:30.joint statement from the Faculty of advocates and the Law Society who
:04:30. > :04:37.describe it as a challenge, not only to the courts, but to the rule
:04:37. > :04:45.of law. I understand that the First Minister is now taking the advice
:04:45. > :04:50.of the Scotsman editor to calm down, Alex, dear. He has to also grow up,
:04:50. > :04:57.own up and apologise so that this debate can move on and be conducted
:04:57. > :05:01.in the way it should have been from the word go. Will he apologise?
:05:01. > :05:06.I will go forward as I think this Parliament should go forward on the
:05:06. > :05:11.basis of looking at Lord McCluskey and his panel's expect fees. I
:05:11. > :05:15.think there has been a general welcome for that approach. Let this
:05:15. > :05:20.Parliament debate them and get to the underlying issue. There is a
:05:20. > :05:27.range of figures. Can I cite some figures who have spoken out saying
:05:27. > :05:31.there is a real issue of concern that has to be a -- address. Paul
:05:31. > :05:36.McBride QC, Ian Smart, former President of the Law Society of
:05:36. > :05:45.Scotland and the founding of Scottish Labour Action at one time.
:05:45. > :05:54.Lord Fraser said Alex Salmond is spot on. The former Lord Advocate,
:05:54. > :05:59.a view of evolution issues. -- devolution issues. The interaction
:06:00. > :06:06.of the judiciary and parliamentary comment is a joke. The independence
:06:06. > :06:10.of the judiciary is guaranteed. We pass legislation in 2008. It is not
:06:10. > :06:15.just about free speech. It is something everyone in this debate
:06:15. > :06:23.should have, including Lord Hope who exercise it. Everyone should
:06:23. > :06:27.have the right of free speech. Just as I make no complaint over the
:06:27. > :06:31.bite of anyone to exercise the right of free speech was that when
:06:31. > :06:39.you are First Minister of Scotland or an opposition leader, you have
:06:39. > :06:44.to address matters of key public concern. I think it is a real issue.
:06:44. > :06:49.The criminal law of Scotland is a matter of public concern. It was
:06:49. > :06:53.never meant to be second-guessed. I think so real public issue of
:06:53. > :06:59.compensation payments paid to criminals in Scotland, in a
:06:59. > :07:03.liability that does not exist in any other jurisdiction, these are
:07:03. > :07:08.real points of public concern. As well as the right of free speech,
:07:08. > :07:18.we have a duty, as parliamentarians, to articulate the public concerns
:07:18. > :07:22.
:07:22. > :07:27.Presiding Officer, the First Minister cites some important
:07:27. > :07:33.principles which underpin our democracy. The problem is, his
:07:33. > :07:38.public statements to the press and otherwise undercut those principles
:07:39. > :07:43.and that is what his critics are saying to him. Let's examine some
:07:43. > :07:50.of those fundamental principles. The First Minister attacked a
:07:50. > :07:55.lawyer for representing people because they are vile. He is just a
:07:55. > :08:00.secretary threatened to cut off funding from a court because he did
:08:00. > :08:05.not like their judgments. -- Justice Secretary. I do not like
:08:05. > :08:10.some of their judgments but vile people having rights is the price
:08:10. > :08:15.we paid for as all having those rights. Vile people being properly
:08:15. > :08:20.defended in court is the price we pay for our right to be defended.
:08:20. > :08:26.We make the laws. The independence of the judiciary is the price we
:08:26. > :08:32.paid for the freedom to do that. Does the first Minister agree? Will
:08:32. > :08:39.he retract his famous which undermined the principles of this
:08:39. > :08:44.Parliament? -- his statements. was this administration who
:08:44. > :08:51.underpinned the commitment and statute through the court was
:08:51. > :09:00.Cobham's at 2008, showing our commitment to independence. -- the
:09:00. > :09:04.courts of Scotland Act. The issue was not one of human rights in
:09:04. > :09:12.terms of what the Scottish courts laid down. They said people had a
:09:12. > :09:22.human right to have proper sanitation. It was about the
:09:22. > :09:22.
:09:22. > :09:25.liability for all of that. It went back to 1999. We could take the
:09:25. > :09:33.view that the people responsible for that potential liability were
:09:33. > :09:37.the people in 2001/ 2002 who were in office. That is Lord Wallace,
:09:37. > :09:41.the justice secretary and Iain Gray, the Deputy Justice Secretary.
:09:42. > :09:47.People could say they should have had the foresight to make sure
:09:47. > :09:51.sanitation was proper. The real issue was not the fact the Scottish
:09:51. > :09:56.courts directed the correction of that situation which was done. The
:09:56. > :10:04.real issue was whether or not our liability as citizens should extend
:10:04. > :10:09.back to 1999, offering a potential legal bill of �100 million. That is
:10:09. > :10:15.an issue of huge public concern. It is not about everyone having Human
:10:15. > :10:21.Rights. It is about whether this Parliament, this jurisdiction, this
:10:21. > :10:25.legal status -- legal system stands arm-in-arm with the rest of Europe.
:10:25. > :10:31.Regardless of the liability to honest, decent, law-abiding people,
:10:31. > :10:35.we should respect that back to 1999 and engage in compensation payments
:10:36. > :10:45.to the filers members of society on that basis, I think he will stand
:10:45. > :10:50.on a very lonely position indeed. To ask the First Minister when he
:10:50. > :10:56.will next meet the Prime Minister. I met the Prime Minister last week
:10:57. > :11:00.and no immediate plans to meet him again. Presiding Officer, the First
:11:01. > :11:06.Minister's interview with Holyrood magazine amounted to an
:11:06. > :11:10.extraordinary rant. It has characterised by vile intemperance,
:11:10. > :11:15.provocative personal insults and the sneering disregard for the
:11:15. > :11:19.independence of the judiciary and the rule of law. No one denies
:11:19. > :11:23.there is a serious issue about how the Supreme Court engages the Scots
:11:23. > :11:30.law in determining human rights issues. It is right that the
:11:30. > :11:35.mechanisms be looked at. The First Minister's bellicose outburst has
:11:35. > :11:40.obscured the real issue. It has made a last it -- laughing-stock of
:11:41. > :11:45.Alex Salmond and diminish the office of First Minister in this
:11:45. > :11:52.Parliament. Will he apologise for bringing the Office of First
:11:52. > :11:58.Minister into dispute? No. First Minister said, just over a
:11:58. > :12:04.month ago, that he did not have a monopoly and wisdom. That is self
:12:04. > :12:10.evident. Unfortunately, characterised by his answer to my
:12:10. > :12:14.first question, he seems to have a monopoly on arrogance and conceit.
:12:14. > :12:19.Just to bring him back down to earth and remind him, once again,
:12:19. > :12:26.that the judiciary is independent of government, there is still a
:12:26. > :12:32.good old Scottish criminal offence called numbering a judge. Rather
:12:32. > :12:34.than running the risk of the lord advocate having to prosecute the
:12:34. > :12:39.First Minister, wouldn't it be easier for the First Minister to
:12:39. > :12:46.eat humble pie and admit he completely botched this whole issue
:12:46. > :12:50.and apologise to all concerned? Well, for many years, Annabel
:12:50. > :12:56.Goldie was saying I did not give direct answers to direct questions.
:12:56. > :13:01.She asked a direct question and a gave a direct answer and I still
:13:01. > :13:04.get a suggestion that I should speak at greater length. I am
:13:04. > :13:14.delighted that Annabel Goldie, after several weeks of being in
:13:14. > :13:15.
:13:15. > :13:20.denial, now regards it as a serious, underlying issue. I see the
:13:20. > :13:26.Conservative benches are suggesting that is not true. Can I read what
:13:26. > :13:31.Paul McBride said about this issue? I apologise if any of this language
:13:31. > :13:35.is intemperate. Describing the position of Annabel Goldie as
:13:35. > :13:39.beyond a ludicrous warned Tory hostility to the SNP was getting in
:13:39. > :13:43.the way of sensible policy-making. The Scottish Conservatives need to
:13:44. > :13:50.explain what the policy is. What is their position on the Supreme
:13:50. > :13:54.Court? The Scottish judges being outnumbered by English judges. If
:13:54. > :14:01.that is what is said by the legal adviser to the Conservative Party
:14:01. > :14:07.in Scotland, then why on earth does Party in Scotland not suggest there
:14:07. > :14:11.is a real, underlying issue? If that is the language used about
:14:11. > :14:15.Conservative Party policy, perhaps Annabel Goldie would be better to
:14:15. > :14:23.look at addressing a policy issue rather than just asking the first
:14:23. > :14:27.Minister for correct answers to questions. Mr McBride is not an
:14:27. > :14:33.adviser for the Conservative Party. He is one of a whole litany of
:14:33. > :14:39.names. What the First Minister does not guess -- get is this. Judges
:14:39. > :14:49.apply the law, lawyer's advice on the law. If politicians like Mr
:14:49. > :14:51.
:14:51. > :14:56.Salmond do not like that any change the law. -- then change the law.
:14:56. > :14:59.There are -- it was only a few short months ago that Paul McBride
:15:00. > :15:06.was cited by Annabel Goldie in question after question as having
:15:06. > :15:11.great wisdom. I think he is a Scottish laird of great distinction.
:15:11. > :15:15.Answering the second point, yes, indeed, I would love this
:15:15. > :15:20.Parliament to be in a position to change the law. I would like us to
:15:20. > :15:25.be in a position to change the law so that our criminal cases were
:15:25. > :15:30.decided in Scotland. That is how it has always meant to be. I want to
:15:30. > :15:34.change the law in that direction. I would love to change the law to
:15:34. > :15:38.make sure that we were in an equal position with any other
:15:38. > :15:42.jurisdiction in Europe and did not get into the ludicrous position of
:15:42. > :15:52.having to have emergency legislation to avoid multi-million
:15:52. > :15:57.
:15:57. > :16:01.payouts to some of the buy list Can I refer the First Minister's
:16:01. > :16:06.lead story in today's Scotsman which casts doubt on the viability
:16:06. > :16:10.of the borders railway. As a founder member of the cross-party
:16:10. > :16:14.group in 1999, will the first Mr give a categorical assurance that
:16:14. > :16:20.his government is fully committed to the reinstatement of this line
:16:20. > :16:26.which is essential to the economy of my constituency? The train
:16:26. > :16:30.crosstalk -- consortia... The borders railway will go ahead and I
:16:30. > :16:36.hope the constituency member takes comfort from the second part of the
:16:36. > :16:41.story, which went on to talk about the M 74 contract and showed how a
:16:41. > :16:45.single bidder in that context demonstrated the ability to bring
:16:45. > :16:55.forward a bit, not just on time, indeed ahead of time, but also
:16:55. > :16:56.
:16:56. > :16:59.under budget. The real concerns in the north that the strategic
:16:59. > :17:06.defence and security review could result in the MoD close thing for
:17:06. > :17:09.home to a Black Watch, breaking a link going back to the 17 hundreds,
:17:09. > :17:13.it will the first minister make urgent representation to Liam Fox
:17:13. > :17:19.to give the base open and meet the chief executive of Historic
:17:19. > :17:28.Scotland, to safeguard it as a tourist destination? I have done so
:17:28. > :17:33.and have done so again. I've signed of the review this morning. I did
:17:33. > :17:38.two things, I argued why it would be unreasonable to seek to their
:17:38. > :17:42.bases close in Scotland, 60 % of our air base capacity, but also
:17:42. > :17:48.concentrated on the maximum do -- Reid upon that of the army from
:17:48. > :17:51.Germany back to Scotland. The army is currently working on the
:17:51. > :17:54.principle of coming home and there was a thought on that principle,
:17:54. > :17:59.not just Fort George, but some of the other bases should be entitled
:17:59. > :18:05.to be receiving substantially more Homebase soldiers as the Scottish
:18:05. > :18:08.army is brought home. I would like to ask the first minister what
:18:08. > :18:14.issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. Issues
:18:14. > :18:20.of importance to the people Scotland. The First Minister's
:18:20. > :18:29.refusal to withdraw his embarrassing for him, for this
:18:29. > :18:34.Parliament and for Scotland. He is creating a needless to vision,
:18:34. > :18:43.between government and our independent justice system. I want
:18:43. > :18:49.to give him another chance, one final chance, will he withdraw the
:18:49. > :18:55.these outrageous remarks against our senior judges and lawyers?
:18:55. > :18:59.answer is the same as I gave to Annabel Goldie a few minutes ago.
:18:59. > :19:03.have to say, I am not surprised because the first minister has got
:19:03. > :19:08.a certain degree of arrogance about this remark. The first minister of
:19:08. > :19:13.Scotland should behave in this foolish manner. It is simply a
:19:13. > :19:17.outrageous. Instead of attacking judges, isn't it high time he spent
:19:17. > :19:22.his time on something more constructive? For example, if he
:19:22. > :19:27.cannot get the basics right at Quantum Vale, how on earth will he
:19:27. > :19:32.make if prisons a place for rehabilitation? If he cannot even
:19:33. > :19:35.provide every prisoner with a bed? How can he expect them to get a
:19:35. > :19:40.writ out of crime and stop them being professional lifetime
:19:40. > :19:46.offenders? Isn't it the case that after two years of inaction, Scot
:19:46. > :19:52.Am's committees are less safe because his government will not
:19:52. > :20:01.take the failings at the prison seriously. -- Scotland. There are a
:20:01. > :20:05.range of... Am interested in his choice of language. Today is ago
:20:05. > :20:10.the Prime Minister described the Supreme Court judgment as offensive.
:20:10. > :20:14.The reality is that there is political comment on judicial
:20:14. > :20:18.decisions which is proper. The independence of the judiciary is
:20:18. > :20:21.guaranteed by statute in this Parliament. In terms of his
:20:21. > :20:25.extraordinary remarks, there have been a number of improvements. I
:20:25. > :20:30.think the solution is to have less people on the short sentences in
:20:30. > :20:36.prison. That is the policy which was supported by his predecessor in
:20:36. > :20:46.this Parliament. That is the policy if a which is hopefully reducing
:20:46. > :20:47.
:20:47. > :20:51.the prison population. I don't think the solution to that is to
:20:51. > :20:54.embark on another prison building programme. I think the solution to
:20:54. > :20:57.that is to find alternative means of punishment and sentencing. I
:20:57. > :21:02.thought until now, that was the policies are bordered by the
:21:02. > :21:08.Liberal Democrats as well. In terms of Scottish society being safer,
:21:08. > :21:13.having what people will lookout in Scottish society is the 30 year low
:21:13. > :21:16.in recorded crime, a 30 year low in recorded crime. I think the most
:21:16. > :21:21.important aspect of which has been the 1000 extra police patrolling
:21:21. > :21:24.the streets of Scotland. Unfortunately, while most liberal
:21:24. > :21:27.Democrats the craw is the 30 year low in recorded crime,
:21:27. > :21:35.unfortunately, the Liberal Democrats did not support the 1000
:21:35. > :21:39.extra police which were required to bring about that better position.
:21:39. > :21:45.To ask the first minister what actions that government is taking
:21:45. > :21:49.to support the oil and gas businesses? North Sea oil and gas
:21:49. > :21:53.makes a big contribution to the Scottish economy. It supports in
:21:53. > :22:00.the region of 200,000 jobs in Scotland. The Treasury this year
:22:00. > :22:04.expects to Secure a tax revenue of �13.4 billion, a record high in
:22:04. > :22:10.terms of normal total. The Scottish government road to the Chancellor
:22:10. > :22:15.on Tuesday with the support of the Labour Party in Scotland. It was
:22:15. > :22:17.about their decision to increase tax. It was at her part analysing
:22:17. > :22:22.the risks posed, suggesting solutions to safeguard the
:22:22. > :22:26.viability and continued development of the most technically challenging
:22:26. > :22:29.and mature fields in the North Sea. I thank the first minister for that
:22:29. > :22:34.answer. The Chancellor's short-term focus on squeezing the maximum
:22:34. > :22:38.amount of revenue from oil and gas is buzzing at risk the Investment
:22:38. > :22:41.weenies in order to get the most out of the North Sea. He is more
:22:42. > :22:46.interested in cash today than investment more. Not my words, but
:22:46. > :22:54.the words of Chancellor George Osborne himself when in opposition.
:22:54. > :22:59.While many of my constituents to Buick in the on and gas industry...
:22:59. > :23:02.Does the first minister not agree with me that the whole incident
:23:02. > :23:06.highlights why it would be far better for the taxation of the oil
:23:06. > :23:11.industry to be in the hands of an experienced formal oil economists,
:23:11. > :23:19.rather than the distant government whose sole interest is to slash the
:23:19. > :23:25.budget deficit? I will rise that a challenge. If called, I will serve.
:23:25. > :23:32.Can I say that she is quite right... Around the debate from 2007,
:23:33. > :23:38.shortly before the election in that year, went Osborne was arguing for
:23:38. > :23:42.stability in the tax regime and one that was respective -- reflective
:23:42. > :23:46.of... That was one of the things he reminded George Osborne of in terms
:23:46. > :23:51.of the meeting that has held within some two weeks ago. In terms of my
:23:51. > :23:56.anxiety on this issue, because it is something which affects 15,000
:23:56. > :24:00.jobs in Scotland, there will be 15,000 less jobs by estimate in 10
:24:00. > :24:04.years' time than they would be if these changes hadn't been proposed.
:24:05. > :24:09.And have accepted with the support of the Labour Party in Scotland on
:24:09. > :24:15.this issue and that has been sent to the Chancellor. Above all, there
:24:15. > :24:20.are three detailed points that can improve job prospects in Scotland.
:24:20. > :24:25.By hope that this whole parliament recognises the importance of this
:24:25. > :24:29.industry in our economy and recognises the crucial importance
:24:29. > :24:33.of 15,000 jobs. Whatever difficulties there are in terms of
:24:33. > :24:36.the Liberal/Tory coalition, I hope that as a parliament, we can put
:24:36. > :24:40.the interests of Scottish workers as a paramount level and support
:24:40. > :24:48.these free initiatives to bring stability but also to make sure
:24:48. > :24:51.that investment in our North Sea is not interrupted. If it does the
:24:51. > :24:54.first minister recognise the further concern in the oil and gas
:24:55. > :24:58.industry regarding the Chancellor's proposals to tax helicopter
:24:58. > :25:02.journeys to and from work in the North Sea on the same basis as
:25:02. > :25:05.luxury business jets? Does he support the representations on this
:25:05. > :25:08.matter made this week by business and local government in the north-
:25:08. > :25:12.east and if he does agree with him, what action would he take to
:25:12. > :25:19.support their representations? I do. I understand that that
:25:19. > :25:23.proposal is in the process of being reinterpreted and I hope that
:25:23. > :25:28.represents progress. I would have said, isn't that another argument
:25:28. > :25:31.for air passenger duty being devolved to this Parliament? Under
:25:31. > :25:35.air passenger duty devolved to this Parliament, we would recognise the
:25:35. > :25:43.importance, would we not, of helicopter flights to and from
:25:43. > :25:46.North Sea installations. If members could keep the questions short and
:25:46. > :25:53.the answers be kept short as well. We will go through all the
:25:53. > :25:55.questions. Hopefully we will include everybody. To ask the first
:25:55. > :25:59.minister whether the Scottish government will review its changes
:25:59. > :26:04.to the fuel poverty budget in light of the announcement of price
:26:04. > :26:09.increases by Scottish Power. issue of price increases is a
:26:09. > :26:13.serious one. The cabinet secretary for finance met with the Co of
:26:13. > :26:16.Scottish Power on Tuesday and reiterated the Scottish
:26:16. > :26:22.Government's concern about the proposed price rises. The Scottish
:26:22. > :26:27.government programmes to improve energy efficiency and... Will be
:26:27. > :26:34.supported by a budget of �48 million this year. The equivalent
:26:34. > :26:37.spend in 2006/80,007 worth 45.8 million. Will the first minister
:26:37. > :26:40.agree that the most substantial contribution in energy companies
:26:40. > :26:46.can make tough-tackling full poverty is through exercising
:26:46. > :26:50.restraint on prices, particularly given fees increases hit poorest
:26:50. > :26:55.households the hardest? Given the reduction in spending and the last
:26:55. > :27:01.Budget, would he agree the next one should Accra improve -- include
:27:01. > :27:05.making more homes energy-efficient? Two things. I mentioned the figures
:27:05. > :27:08.which indicate that in even in these incredibly pressing times,
:27:08. > :27:13.the budget is higher than the one we inherited into has a seven but
:27:13. > :27:17.also the members should know that in his talks with Scottish Power,
:27:17. > :27:22.the Finance Secretary identified �10 million of unspent expenditure
:27:22. > :27:24.to the Scottish Power Scheme which we can now discuss along with local
:27:24. > :27:29.authority Palmers in seeing how that can be deployed in helping
:27:29. > :27:36.people even further with energy efficiency and I know that Richard
:27:36. > :27:41.Baker will be the first to acknowledge that the person who
:27:41. > :27:45.established for the definition of fuel poverty says about these
:27:45. > :27:48.Scottish energy efficiency package that it is the best UK example of
:27:48. > :27:57.in providing a comprehensive approach and linking assistance to
:27:58. > :28:01.energy-efficiency in the home. very concerned at this price rise,
:28:01. > :28:06.which will... Does the first minister not agree with me that the
:28:06. > :28:11.estimated extra �20 million in VAT receipts would be better spent in
:28:11. > :28:16.tackling fuel poverty, compared to just propping up the age Treasury's
:28:16. > :28:23.coffers? Yes, I do. John Swinney identified the �10 million of
:28:23. > :28:27.expenditure. He has referred the matter to the regulator. Even at 5%,
:28:27. > :28:31.the additional revenue from these price increases, if they were
:28:31. > :28:35.repeated across the sector, which he seems unfortunately to be a very
:28:35. > :28:40.likely trend, would bring in more than �20 million...