20/02/2013

:00:15. > :00:16.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland.

:00:16. > :00:17.Scotland. Scotland.

:00:18. > :00:19.Coming up on the programme: Coming up on the programme:

:00:19. > :00:19.Coming up on the programme: Coming up on the programme:

:00:19. > :00:20.More good news on the jobs front, More good news on the jobs front,

:00:20. > :00:21.More good news on the jobs front, unemployment falls again, and it's

:00:21. > :00:25.unemployment falls again, and it's unemployment falls again, and it's

:00:25. > :00:25.slightly below the UK average. slightly below the UK average.

:00:25. > :00:26.slightly below the UK average. And the Conservatives question why

:00:26. > :00:32.And the Conservatives question why And the Conservatives question why

:00:32. > :00:33.big spending projects have been delayed.

:00:33. > :00:34.delayed. delayed.

:00:34. > :00:35.delayed. The number of Scots seeking work at

:00:35. > :00:36.The number of Scots seeking work at The number of Scots seeking work at

:00:36. > :00:37.The number of Scots seeking work at the end of last year fell by 13,000

:00:37. > :00:38.the end of last year fell by 13,000 the end of last year fell by 13,000

:00:38. > :00:41.and the number on unemployment and the number on unemployment

:00:41. > :00:42.and the number on unemployment benefit has also fallen. But the

:00:42. > :00:43.benefit has also fallen. But the benefit has also fallen. But the

:00:43. > :00:48.benefit has also fallen. But the number of Scots in work has also

:00:48. > :00:49.number of Scots in work has also declined. Here's David Henderson.

:00:49. > :00:50.declined. Here's David Henderson. declined. Here's David Henderson.

:00:50. > :00:52.declined. Here's David Henderson. Alex Robertson is looking for a job,

:00:52. > :00:54.Alex Robertson is looking for a job, Alex Robertson is looking for a job,

:00:54. > :00:55.after 16 years with the same after 16 years with the same

:00:55. > :00:56.after 16 years with the same after 16 years with the same

:00:56. > :00:58.employer he is now on the dole. employer he is now on the dole.

:00:58. > :01:00.Registered disabled, Alex was Registered disabled, Alex was

:01:00. > :01:01.Registered disabled, Alex was working at a Remploy factory in

:01:01. > :01:04.working at a Remploy factory in working at a Remploy factory in

:01:04. > :01:06.Glasgow. Its closure leaves him and Glasgow. Its closure leaves him and

:01:06. > :01:07.Glasgow. Its closure leaves him and other colleagues the disabled. --

:01:07. > :01:08.other colleagues the disabled. -- other colleagues the disabled. --

:01:08. > :01:09.other colleagues the disabled. -- frustrated. I have managed to go on

:01:09. > :01:12.frustrated. I have managed to go on different websites and register

:01:12. > :01:13.different websites and register different websites and register

:01:13. > :01:14.with different job agencies. Also with different job agencies. Also

:01:14. > :01:15.with different job agencies. Also with different job agencies. Also

:01:15. > :01:16.surfing the Net and trying to find surfing the Net and trying to find

:01:16. > :01:18.surfing the Net and trying to find surfing the Net and trying to find

:01:18. > :01:19.out things and trying to talk to out things and trying to talk to

:01:19. > :01:21.out things and trying to talk to out things and trying to talk to

:01:21. > :01:22.people to see if any doors can be people to see if any doors can be

:01:22. > :01:23.people to see if any doors can be opened or whatever but from the

:01:23. > :01:24.opened or whatever but from the opened or whatever but from the

:01:24. > :01:25.government side they do not see government side they do not see

:01:25. > :01:27.government side they do not see that we are getting any help

:01:27. > :01:28.that we are getting any help that we are getting any help

:01:28. > :01:29.whatsoever. How many jobs are out whatsoever. How many jobs are out

:01:29. > :01:30.whatsoever. How many jobs are out whatsoever. How many jobs are out

:01:30. > :01:34.there for Alex and others and what there for Alex and others and what

:01:35. > :01:35.competition do jobseekers face? competition do jobseekers face?

:01:35. > :01:37.competition do jobseekers face? According to the latest figures the

:01:37. > :01:38.According to the latest figures the According to the latest figures the

:01:38. > :01:40.numbers of Scots seeking work at numbers of Scots seeking work at

:01:40. > :01:43.numbers of Scots seeking work at numbers of Scots seeking work at

:01:43. > :01:45.the end of last year fell by 13,000, the end of last year fell by 13,000,

:01:45. > :01:47.the end of last year fell by 13,000, to reach 206,000. That means that

:01:47. > :01:49.to reach 206,000. That means that to reach 206,000. That means that

:01:49. > :01:51.the Scottish unemployment rate is the Scottish unemployment rate is

:01:51. > :01:53.the Scottish unemployment rate is the Scottish unemployment rate is

:01:53. > :01:55.7.7% which is just below the UK 7.7% which is just below the UK

:01:55. > :01:56.7.7% which is just below the UK average of 7.8%. The number of

:01:56. > :01:59.average of 7.8%. The number of average of 7.8%. The number of

:01:59. > :02:00.Scots in work has also declined. Scots in work has also declined.

:02:00. > :02:01.Scots in work has also declined. Scots in work has also declined.

:02:01. > :02:02.Over the next six months I think it Over the next six months I think it

:02:02. > :02:02.Over the next six months I think it Over the next six months I think it

:02:02. > :02:04.is unlikely that we will see any is unlikely that we will see any

:02:04. > :02:06.is unlikely that we will see any major changes in terms of the

:02:06. > :02:08.major changes in terms of the economy, either upwards or

:02:08. > :02:09.economy, either upwards or economy, either upwards or

:02:09. > :02:10.downwards. Looking beyond that we downwards. Looking beyond that we

:02:10. > :02:11.downwards. Looking beyond that we do see a bit more positivity

:02:11. > :02:14.do see a bit more positivity do see a bit more positivity

:02:14. > :02:16.creeping into the way businesses creeping into the way businesses

:02:16. > :02:17.creeping into the way businesses are approaching. We are seeing a

:02:17. > :02:18.are approaching. We are seeing a are approaching. We are seeing a

:02:18. > :02:20.pick-up in investment in some areas pick-up in investment in some areas

:02:20. > :02:21.pick-up in investment in some areas pick-up in investment in some areas

:02:21. > :02:22.and I think that bodes well. Today and I think that bodes well. Today

:02:22. > :02:23.and I think that bodes well. Today and I think that bodes well. Today

:02:23. > :02:24.it emerged that the number of young it emerged that the number of young

:02:24. > :02:25.it emerged that the number of young it emerged that the number of young

:02:26. > :02:27.Scots out of work has fallen as Scots out of work has fallen as

:02:27. > :02:28.Scots out of work has fallen as Scots out of work has fallen as

:02:28. > :02:29.well, by 28,000 over the course of well, by 28,000 over the course of

:02:29. > :02:30.well, by 28,000 over the course of last year. That is something

:02:30. > :02:32.last year. That is something last year. That is something

:02:32. > :02:34.government and business will want government and business will want

:02:34. > :02:42.to build on. to build on.

:02:43. > :02:43.to build on. I am joined by our Business

:02:44. > :02:44.I am joined by our Business I am joined by our Business

:02:44. > :02:46.Correspondent. And by our political Correspondent. And by our political

:02:46. > :02:47.commentator for the afternoon, Gerry Hassan.

:02:47. > :02:48.Gerry Hassan. Gerry Hassan.

:02:48. > :02:50.Gerry Hassan. If what are the key themes in what

:02:50. > :02:52.If what are the key themes in what If what are the key themes in what

:02:52. > :02:58.we are seeing? In the broadest we are seeing? In the broadest

:02:58. > :02:59.we are seeing? In the broadest terms's it is that unemployment is

:02:59. > :03:00.terms's it is that unemployment is terms's it is that unemployment is

:03:00. > :03:02.terms's it is that unemployment is falling. There is a bit of a trend

:03:02. > :03:04.falling. There is a bit of a trend developing. That is important

:03:04. > :03:06.developing. That is important developing. That is important

:03:06. > :03:07.economic live because it may help economic live because it may help

:03:07. > :03:08.restore confidence, that elusive restore confidence, that elusive

:03:08. > :03:10.restore confidence, that elusive quality that has been in short

:03:10. > :03:11.quality that has been in short quality that has been in short

:03:12. > :03:12.supply since the financial crash supply since the financial crash

:03:13. > :03:14.supply since the financial crash five years ago. Unemployment, of

:03:14. > :03:15.five years ago. Unemployment, of five years ago. Unemployment, of

:03:16. > :03:17.course, is a lagging indicator course, is a lagging indicator

:03:17. > :03:18.course, is a lagging indicator course, is a lagging indicator

:03:18. > :03:19.about the health of the economy. It about the health of the economy. It

:03:19. > :03:20.about the health of the economy. It about the health of the economy. It

:03:20. > :03:21.shows how things were a few months shows how things were a few months

:03:21. > :03:22.shows how things were a few months shows how things were a few months

:03:22. > :03:23.ago. You can only hope that with ago. You can only hope that with

:03:23. > :03:24.ago. You can only hope that with unemployment falling a few months

:03:24. > :03:26.unemployment falling a few months unemployment falling a few months

:03:26. > :03:28.ago then hopefully things will be ago then hopefully things will be

:03:28. > :03:29.ago then hopefully things will be even better now. Beyond that there

:03:29. > :03:30.even better now. Beyond that there even better now. Beyond that there

:03:30. > :03:31.even better now. Beyond that there was the key factor that I mentioned

:03:31. > :03:32.was the key factor that I mentioned was the key factor that I mentioned

:03:32. > :03:34.was the key factor that I mentioned at the end of my report, that

:03:34. > :03:35.at the end of my report, that important trend which the

:03:35. > :03:37.important trend which the important trend which the

:03:37. > :03:38.politicians are picking upon which politicians are picking upon which

:03:38. > :03:39.politicians are picking upon which is the fall in youth unemployment.

:03:39. > :03:41.is the fall in youth unemployment. is the fall in youth unemployment.

:03:41. > :03:42.is the fall in youth unemployment. It is a toxic political problem. It

:03:42. > :03:43.It is a toxic political problem. It It is a toxic political problem. It

:03:43. > :03:45.It is a toxic political problem. It is one that has shown itself to be

:03:45. > :03:46.is one that has shown itself to be is one that has shown itself to be

:03:46. > :03:47.a serious problem politically over a serious problem politically over

:03:47. > :03:48.a serious problem politically over a serious problem politically over

:03:48. > :03:50.the course of the last five years. the course of the last five years.

:03:50. > :03:51.the course of the last five years. the course of the last five years.

:03:51. > :03:53.That figure is down 28,000 in A1 That figure is down 28,000 in A1

:03:53. > :03:54.That figure is down 28,000 in A1 That figure is down 28,000 in A1

:03:54. > :03:55.year. It is still high, around one year. It is still high, around one

:03:55. > :03:58.year. It is still high, around one in five youngsters in Scotland

:03:58. > :03:59.in five youngsters in Scotland in five youngsters in Scotland

:03:59. > :04:00.remains unemployed but that figure remains unemployed but that figure

:04:00. > :04:02.remains unemployed but that figure remains unemployed but that figure

:04:02. > :04:03.puts a dent in the narrative which puts a dent in the narrative which

:04:03. > :04:05.puts a dent in the narrative which the opposition parties like to

:04:05. > :04:08.the opposition parties like to the opposition parties like to

:04:08. > :04:09.present, of a lost generation of present, of a lost generation of

:04:09. > :04:10.present, of a lost generation of young people, shut out of the

:04:10. > :04:11.young people, shut out of the young people, shut out of the

:04:11. > :04:12.labour market and it is something labour market and it is something

:04:13. > :04:14.labour market and it is something the Scottish government has been

:04:14. > :04:15.the Scottish government has been the Scottish government has been

:04:15. > :04:16.keen to highlight today as a keen to highlight today as a

:04:16. > :04:17.keen to highlight today as a measure of success. We get these

:04:17. > :04:18.measure of success. We get these measure of success. We get these

:04:18. > :04:20.measure of success. We get these figures every month and it is quite

:04:20. > :04:22.figures every month and it is quite figures every month and it is quite

:04:22. > :04:23.hard to read into general pictures. hard to read into general pictures.

:04:23. > :04:24.hard to read into general pictures. You're looking at the narrative and

:04:24. > :04:24.You're looking at the narrative and You're looking at the narrative and

:04:24. > :04:26.You're looking at the narrative and tried to see what his next coming

:04:26. > :04:27.tried to see what his next coming tried to see what his next coming

:04:27. > :04:28.down the tracks. That is right, down the tracks. That is right,

:04:28. > :04:31.down the tracks. That is right, down the tracks. That is right,

:04:31. > :04:32.there are a lot of figures there there are a lot of figures there

:04:32. > :04:34.there are a lot of figures there there are a lot of figures there

:04:34. > :04:34.there are a lot of figures there and it has a lot to read into them.

:04:34. > :04:35.and it has a lot to read into them. and it has a lot to read into them.

:04:35. > :04:36.and it has a lot to read into them. It paints a rip mixed picture. If

:04:36. > :04:39.It paints a rip mixed picture. If It paints a rip mixed picture. If

:04:39. > :04:40.you look at the last year, you look at the last year,

:04:40. > :04:43.you look at the last year, unemployment has fallen. It is

:04:43. > :04:44.unemployment has fallen. It is proportionately by more than

:04:44. > :04:45.proportionately by more than proportionately by more than

:04:45. > :04:48.England. Scotland has actually seen England. Scotland has actually seen

:04:48. > :04:50.England. Scotland has actually seen the biggest fall after London and

:04:50. > :04:51.the biggest fall after London and the biggest fall after London and

:04:51. > :04:52.the north-west of England. If you the north-west of England. If you

:04:52. > :04:53.the north-west of England. If you are making comparisons, there is

:04:53. > :04:55.are making comparisons, there is are making comparisons, there is

:04:55. > :04:56.also a bit of a problem, also a bit of a problem,

:04:56. > :04:57.potentially. The strange thing potentially. The strange thing

:04:57. > :04:58.potentially. The strange thing about Scotland compared with the

:04:58. > :05:00.about Scotland compared with the about Scotland compared with the

:05:00. > :05:01.about Scotland compared with the rest of the UK is that when you

:05:01. > :05:02.rest of the UK is that when you rest of the UK is that when you

:05:02. > :05:03.look at economic inactivity, the look at economic inactivity, the

:05:03. > :05:04.look at economic inactivity, the number of people who were not

:05:04. > :05:06.number of people who were not number of people who were not

:05:06. > :05:09.working or looking for work, that working or looking for work, that

:05:09. > :05:09.working or looking for work, that working or looking for work, that

:05:09. > :05:10.number was up in Scotland while it number was up in Scotland while it

:05:10. > :05:12.number was up in Scotland while it number was up in Scotland while it

:05:12. > :05:13.was down quite a long way in was down quite a long way in

:05:13. > :05:14.was down quite a long way in England. Meanwhile, the number of

:05:14. > :05:16.England. Meanwhile, the number of England. Meanwhile, the number of

:05:16. > :05:18.England. Meanwhile, the number of Scots in work rose by just 2000

:05:18. > :05:19.Scots in work rose by just 2000 Scots in work rose by just 2000

:05:19. > :05:24.Scots in work rose by just 2000 while the number of people in work

:05:24. > :05:25.while the number of people in work while the number of people in work

:05:25. > :05:27.in England rose by 500,000. That in England rose by 500,000. That

:05:27. > :05:28.in England rose by 500,000. That suggests that England is creating

:05:28. > :05:29.suggests that England is creating suggests that England is creating

:05:29. > :05:31.suggests that England is creating jobs at a level which is much

:05:31. > :05:32.jobs at a level which is much jobs at a level which is much

:05:32. > :05:33.higher than you are seeing in higher than you are seeing in

:05:33. > :05:34.higher than you are seeing in Scotland or Wales or Northern

:05:34. > :05:35.Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland. Looking at this

:05:35. > :05:37.Ireland. Looking at this Ireland. Looking at this

:05:37. > :05:38.politically, what does it mean for politically, what does it mean for

:05:38. > :05:39.politically, what does it mean for the Scottish government and the UK

:05:39. > :05:40.the Scottish government and the UK the Scottish government and the UK

:05:40. > :05:41.the Scottish government and the UK Government. On the face of it good

:05:41. > :05:41.Government. On the face of it good Government. On the face of it good

:05:41. > :05:42.Government. On the face of it good news but picking up on what David

:05:42. > :05:43.news but picking up on what David news but picking up on what David

:05:43. > :05:44.news but picking up on what David is saying, not so much good news

:05:44. > :05:46.is saying, not so much good news is saying, not so much good news

:05:46. > :05:47.under the figures. Adding these under the figures. Adding these

:05:47. > :05:48.under the figures. Adding these figures are enormously complex. It

:05:48. > :05:49.figures are enormously complex. It figures are enormously complex. It

:05:49. > :05:51.is good news that unemployment is is good news that unemployment is

:05:51. > :05:51.is good news that unemployment is is good news that unemployment is

:05:51. > :05:52.down and that more jobs are being down and that more jobs are being

:05:52. > :05:55.down and that more jobs are being created and the jobless figures are

:05:55. > :05:57.created and the jobless figures are falling but an enormously

:05:57. > :05:59.falling but an enormously falling but an enormously

:05:59. > :06:00.complicated rise in part-time work. complicated rise in part-time work.

:06:00. > :06:01.complicated rise in part-time work. complicated rise in part-time work.

:06:01. > :06:02.There are only 2000 jobs created in There are only 2000 jobs created in

:06:02. > :06:04.There are only 2000 jobs created in There are only 2000 jobs created in

:06:04. > :06:05.Scotland in the last year. You have Scotland in the last year. You have

:06:05. > :06:07.this economic inactivity rate. this economic inactivity rate.

:06:07. > :06:08.this economic inactivity rate. this economic inactivity rate.

:06:08. > :06:09.There are a lot of people in There are a lot of people in

:06:09. > :06:10.There are a lot of people in Scotland who are economic the

:06:10. > :06:11.Scotland who are economic the Scotland who are economic the

:06:11. > :06:12.disconnected from the labour market disconnected from the labour market

:06:12. > :06:12.disconnected from the labour market and they were disconnected and the

:06:12. > :06:13.and they were disconnected and the and they were disconnected and the

:06:13. > :06:14.good times and they are falling good times and they are falling

:06:14. > :06:15.good times and they are falling further behind in these times and

:06:15. > :06:17.further behind in these times and further behind in these times and

:06:17. > :06:19.further behind in these times and there is no sign of that moving.

:06:19. > :06:20.Thank you. Thank you.

:06:20. > :06:21.Thank you. Thank you.

:06:21. > :06:22.Let's cross to the Garden Lobby at Let's cross to the Garden Lobby at

:06:22. > :06:22.Let's cross to the Garden Lobby at Let's cross to the Garden Lobby at

:06:22. > :06:23.Holyrood now and speak to some MSPs Holyrood now and speak to some MSPs

:06:23. > :06:24.Holyrood now and speak to some MSPs about this issue and others that

:06:24. > :06:29.about this issue and others that about this issue and others that

:06:29. > :06:30.are making the headlines today. We are making the headlines today. We

:06:30. > :06:31.are making the headlines today. We have Murdo Fraser from the Scottish

:06:31. > :06:32.have Murdo Fraser from the Scottish Conservatives, Ken McIntosh from

:06:32. > :06:32.Conservatives, Ken McIntosh from Conservatives, Ken McIntosh from

:06:32. > :06:35.Conservatives, Ken McIntosh from Labour and from the SNP we have

:06:35. > :06:36.Clare Adamson. Clare Adamson.

:06:36. > :06:37.Clare Adamson. Good afternoon to you all. Thank

:06:37. > :06:38.Good afternoon to you all. Thank Good afternoon to you all. Thank

:06:38. > :06:39.Good afternoon to you all. Thank you very much for joining me. Let

:06:39. > :06:42.you very much for joining me. Let you very much for joining me. Let

:06:42. > :06:43.us pick on the unemployment figures. us pick on the unemployment figures.

:06:43. > :06:44.us pick on the unemployment figures. Claire Adamson, the concern is that

:06:44. > :06:45.Claire Adamson, the concern is that Claire Adamson, the concern is that

:06:45. > :06:46.Claire Adamson, the concern is that Claire Adamson, the concern is that

:06:46. > :06:47.on the face of it, it is a good on the face of it, it is a good

:06:47. > :06:48.on the face of it, it is a good picture but there is some concern

:06:48. > :06:51.picture but there is some concern picture but there is some concern

:06:51. > :06:52.about the people who are about the people who are

:06:52. > :06:54.about the people who are economically inactive. I think the

:06:54. > :06:55.economically inactive. I think the economically inactive. I think the

:06:55. > :06:56.figures are very welcome news, figures are very welcome news,

:06:56. > :06:58.figures are very welcome news, especially in the area of youth

:06:58. > :06:59.especially in the area of youth especially in the area of youth

:06:59. > :07:00.unemployment where we have seen a unemployment where we have seen a

:07:00. > :07:01.unemployment where we have seen a dramatic fall in youth unemployment

:07:01. > :07:02.dramatic fall in youth unemployment dramatic fall in youth unemployment

:07:02. > :07:03.dramatic fall in youth unemployment and I think what we are starting to

:07:03. > :07:03.and I think what we are starting to and I think what we are starting to

:07:03. > :07:04.and I think what we are starting to see in Scotland is some of the

:07:04. > :07:05.see in Scotland is some of the see in Scotland is some of the

:07:05. > :07:06.benefits of some of the policies benefits of some of the policies

:07:06. > :07:07.benefits of some of the policies that have been implemented by the

:07:07. > :07:12.that have been implemented by the Scottish government in tackling

:07:12. > :07:13.Scottish government in tackling Scottish government in tackling

:07:13. > :07:15.these areas. Economic inactivity is these areas. Economic inactivity is

:07:15. > :07:18.these areas. Economic inactivity is always a concern for everyone but

:07:18. > :07:19.always a concern for everyone but always a concern for everyone but

:07:19. > :07:21.always a concern for everyone but the general mood seems to be to

:07:21. > :07:22.the general mood seems to be to the general mood seems to be to

:07:22. > :07:23.the general mood seems to be to better -- the general news seems to

:07:23. > :07:26.better -- the general news seems to better -- the general news seems to

:07:26. > :07:27.be to better employment in Scotland. be to better employment in Scotland.

:07:27. > :07:28.be to better employment in Scotland. The policy is obviously working

:07:28. > :07:29.The policy is obviously working The policy is obviously working

:07:29. > :07:30.according to Claire Adamson but you according to Claire Adamson but you

:07:30. > :07:31.according to Claire Adamson but you are criticising the Scottish budget

:07:32. > :07:33.are criticising the Scottish budget are criticising the Scottish budget

:07:33. > :07:35.are criticising the Scottish budget for not doing enough for jobs and

:07:35. > :07:36.for not doing enough for jobs and for not doing enough for jobs and

:07:36. > :07:37.growth. I would ask Clare as growth. I would ask Clare as

:07:37. > :07:39.growth. I would ask Clare as straight question, which policy do

:07:39. > :07:42.straight question, which policy do straight question, which policy do

:07:42. > :07:45.you think is working? I cannot you think is working? I cannot

:07:45. > :07:46.you think is working? I cannot you think is working? I cannot

:07:46. > :07:47.think of ever. -- any. There is the think of ever. -- any. There is the

:07:47. > :07:49.apprenticeships and training for apprenticeships and training for

:07:49. > :07:50.apprenticeships and training for young people, which is evidently

:07:50. > :07:52.young people, which is evidently young people, which is evidently

:07:52. > :07:52.working. In that case, why is working. In that case, why is

:07:52. > :07:53.working. In that case, why is unemployment or better in Scotland

:07:53. > :07:55.unemployment or better in Scotland unemployment or better in Scotland

:07:55. > :07:56.unemployment or better in Scotland and it is across the whole of the

:07:56. > :07:57.and it is across the whole of the UK. Clearly unemployment in

:07:57. > :07:59.UK. Clearly unemployment in UK. Clearly unemployment in

:07:59. > :08:00.Scotland is at exactly the same Scotland is at exactly the same

:08:00. > :08:01.Scotland is at exactly the same level, there is nothing that the

:08:01. > :08:02.level, there is nothing that the level, there is nothing that the

:08:02. > :08:03.level, there is nothing that the SNP are doing in government that is

:08:03. > :08:05.SNP are doing in government that is SNP are doing in government that is

:08:05. > :08:05.making a difference in terms of making a difference in terms of

:08:05. > :08:07.making a difference in terms of employment levels and a real level

:08:07. > :08:08.employment levels and a real level employment levels and a real level

:08:08. > :08:10.-- the real worry is that -- the real worry is that

:08:10. > :08:11.underneath the or unemployment underneath the or unemployment

:08:11. > :08:12.underneath the or unemployment levels is the problem of economic

:08:12. > :08:13.levels is the problem of economic levels is the problem of economic

:08:13. > :08:14.inactivity and we are doing inactivity and we are doing

:08:14. > :08:16.inactivity and we are doing inactivity and we are doing

:08:16. > :08:17.terribly in this. I do not agree at terribly in this. I do not agree at

:08:17. > :08:19.terribly in this. I do not agree at terribly in this. I do not agree at

:08:19. > :08:20.all. The UK is a very complicated all. The UK is a very complicated

:08:20. > :08:21.all. The UK is a very complicated situation. With Labour in control

:08:21. > :08:21.situation. With Labour in control situation. With Labour in control

:08:21. > :08:23.situation. With Labour in control and Wales we see a much worse

:08:23. > :08:25.and Wales we see a much worse and Wales we see a much worse

:08:25. > :08:25.situation in Wales than in Scotland situation in Wales than in Scotland

:08:25. > :08:26.situation in Wales than in Scotland situation in Wales than in Scotland

:08:26. > :08:27.situation in Wales than in Scotland so I do not think you can turn this

:08:27. > :08:28.so I do not think you can turn this so I do not think you can turn this

:08:28. > :08:29.back on the Scottish government. We back on the Scottish government. We

:08:29. > :08:31.back on the Scottish government. We back on the Scottish government. We

:08:31. > :08:32.are doing a lot in investigating -- are doing a lot in investigating --

:08:32. > :08:33.investing and capital programmes investing and capital programmes

:08:33. > :08:35.investing and capital programmes have been brought forward and we

:08:35. > :08:36.have been brought forward and we have been brought forward and we

:08:36. > :08:37.actually moving forward and the actually moving forward and the

:08:37. > :08:39.actually moving forward and the figures would show that Scotland is

:08:39. > :08:40.figures would show that Scotland is figures would show that Scotland is

:08:40. > :08:41.moving in the right direction. moving in the right direction.

:08:41. > :08:42.moving in the right direction. moving in the right direction.

:08:42. > :08:43.want to turn to Murdo Fraser now. want to turn to Murdo Fraser now.

:08:43. > :08:44.want to turn to Murdo Fraser now. want to turn to Murdo Fraser now.

:08:44. > :08:46.We are hearing this from both sides We are hearing this from both sides

:08:46. > :08:47.We are hearing this from both sides We are hearing this from both sides

:08:47. > :08:48.of the argument there. What is the of the argument there. What is the

:08:48. > :08:51.of the argument there. What is the UK Government doing to help

:08:51. > :08:51.UK Government doing to help Scotland beat unemployment?

:08:51. > :08:54.Scotland beat unemployment? Scotland beat unemployment?

:08:54. > :08:56.picture across the UK is generally picture across the UK is generally

:08:56. > :08:57.encouraging. Unemployment is now encouraging. Unemployment is now

:08:57. > :08:59.consistently falling, month on consistently falling, month on

:08:59. > :09:00.consistently falling, month on month, quarter on quarter. I think

:09:00. > :09:03.month, quarter on quarter. I think month, quarter on quarter. I think

:09:03. > :09:04.the worrying aspect for Scotland the worrying aspect for Scotland

:09:04. > :09:04.the worrying aspect for Scotland the worrying aspect for Scotland

:09:04. > :09:06.here, as you pointed out, is that here, as you pointed out, is that

:09:06. > :09:06.here, as you pointed out, is that while the level of people in

:09:06. > :09:07.while the level of people in while the level of people in

:09:07. > :09:09.employment has gone up dramatically employment has gone up dramatically

:09:09. > :09:10.employment has gone up dramatically employment has gone up dramatically

:09:10. > :09:11.in the UK it has fallen in Scotland. in the UK it has fallen in Scotland.

:09:11. > :09:13.in the UK it has fallen in Scotland. Also the levels of economic

:09:13. > :09:13.Also the levels of economic Also the levels of economic

:09:13. > :09:14.inactivity across the UK have been inactivity across the UK have been

:09:14. > :09:16.inactivity across the UK have been coming down but in Scotland they

:09:16. > :09:17.coming down but in Scotland they coming down but in Scotland they

:09:17. > :09:18.have not been. There is something have not been. There is something

:09:18. > :09:19.have not been. There is something different about the situation is

:09:19. > :09:20.different about the situation is different about the situation is

:09:20. > :09:22.Connacht which is not as Connacht which is not as

:09:22. > :09:22.Connacht which is not as encouraging as the picture across

:09:22. > :09:26.encouraging as the picture across encouraging as the picture across

:09:26. > :09:27.the UK. There is some explaining the UK. There is some explaining

:09:27. > :09:28.the UK. There is some explaining the UK. There is some explaining

:09:28. > :09:29.for the SNP to do here. When things for the SNP to do here. When things

:09:29. > :09:30.for the SNP to do here. When things for the SNP to do here. When things

:09:30. > :09:31.are going well they claim all the are going well they claim all the

:09:31. > :09:32.credit for their policy credit for their policy

:09:32. > :09:32.credit for their policy interventions but when things are

:09:32. > :09:33.interventions but when things are interventions but when things are

:09:33. > :09:34.interventions but when things are not doing as well you have to start

:09:34. > :09:35.not doing as well you have to start not doing as well you have to start

:09:35. > :09:37.not doing as well you have to start explaining why we are not doing as

:09:37. > :09:39.explaining why we are not doing as explaining why we are not doing as

:09:39. > :09:40.well in Scotland. We are debating well in Scotland. We are debating

:09:40. > :09:41.an issue the subterranean an issue the subterranean

:09:41. > :09:42.an issue the subterranean parliament which is the failure of

:09:42. > :09:46.parliament which is the failure of parliament which is the failure of

:09:46. > :09:47.the MDP model to bring forward the MDP model to bring forward

:09:47. > :09:49.capital spending in Scotland, capital spending in Scotland,

:09:49. > :09:50.capital spending in Scotland, capital spending in Scotland,

:09:50. > :09:51.trumpeted by the SNP but failing to trumpeted by the SNP but failing to

:09:51. > :09:52.trumpeted by the SNP but failing to deliver projects on the ground in

:09:52. > :09:53.deliver projects on the ground in deliver projects on the ground in

:09:53. > :09:55.deliver projects on the ground in the last two years. Let us pick up

:09:55. > :09:56.the last two years. Let us pick up the last two years. Let us pick up

:09:56. > :09:57.on that. That is the big on that. That is the big

:09:57. > :09:58.infrastructure projects that the infrastructure projects that the

:09:58. > :09:59.infrastructure projects that the Scottish government funds. You say

:09:59. > :10:00.Scottish government funds. You say Scottish government funds. You say

:10:00. > :10:01.Scottish government funds. You say there is a delay in getting the

:10:01. > :10:03.there is a delay in getting the there is a delay in getting the

:10:03. > :10:05.money to start building those big money to start building those big

:10:05. > :10:06.money to start building those big money to start building those big

:10:06. > :10:08.project. The SNP wanted to use the project. The SNP wanted to use the

:10:08. > :10:09.project. The SNP wanted to use the project. The SNP wanted to use the

:10:09. > :10:10.Scottish -- the SNP wanted to use Scottish -- the SNP wanted to use

:10:10. > :10:11.Scottish -- the SNP wanted to use this new model because they thought

:10:11. > :10:12.this new model because they thought this new model because they thought

:10:12. > :10:13.it was better than the private it was better than the private

:10:13. > :10:14.it was better than the private finance initiative that the Tories

:10:14. > :10:15.finance initiative that the Tories pioneered which left private

:10:15. > :10:17.pioneered which left private pioneered which left private

:10:17. > :10:18.pioneered which left private companies with a lot of money in

:10:18. > :10:19.companies with a lot of money in companies with a lot of money in

:10:19. > :10:20.their profits -- pockets and their profits -- pockets and

:10:20. > :10:21.their profits -- pockets and taxpayers are footing the bill.

:10:21. > :10:22.taxpayers are footing the bill. taxpayers are footing the bill.

:10:22. > :10:23.taxpayers are footing the bill. one thing we never tire of hearing

:10:23. > :10:24.one thing we never tire of hearing one thing we never tire of hearing

:10:24. > :10:25.one thing we never tire of hearing from the SNP is how we need to

:10:25. > :10:26.from the SNP is how we need to from the SNP is how we need to

:10:26. > :10:27.bring forward capital spending to bring forward capital spending to

:10:27. > :10:29.bring forward capital spending to create jobs. What has happened with

:10:29. > :10:30.create jobs. What has happened with create jobs. What has happened with

:10:30. > :10:32.create jobs. What has happened with this model is in the past few years

:10:32. > :10:33.this model is in the past few years this model is in the past few years

:10:33. > :10:34.when they should have spent �500 when they should have spent �500

:10:34. > :10:35.when they should have spent �500 million on capital projects they

:10:35. > :10:36.million on capital projects they million on capital projects they

:10:36. > :10:37.have just spent �20 million. That have just spent �20 million. That

:10:37. > :10:38.have just spent �20 million. That is their failure and they cannot

:10:38. > :10:42.is their failure and they cannot is their failure and they cannot

:10:42. > :10:43.blame anyone else for that. Even blame anyone else for that. Even

:10:43. > :10:46.blame anyone else for that. Even the finance secretary's own figures

:10:46. > :10:47.the finance secretary's own figures the finance secretary's own figures

:10:47. > :10:49.suggest that 3,500 jobs we should suggest that 3,500 jobs we should

:10:49. > :10:50.suggest that 3,500 jobs we should have been created have not been

:10:50. > :10:51.have been created have not been have been created have not been

:10:51. > :10:51.created. Let us go straight to created. Let us go straight to

:10:51. > :10:53.created. Let us go straight to Claire Adamson for a rebuttal of

:10:53. > :10:55.Claire Adamson for a rebuttal of Claire Adamson for a rebuttal of

:10:56. > :10:56.that. You heard what Murdo Fraser that. You heard what Murdo Fraser

:10:56. > :10:57.that. You heard what Murdo Fraser said. Are you keeping things in

:10:57. > :10:58.said. Are you keeping things in said. Are you keeping things in

:10:58. > :11:00.said. Are you keeping things in your back pocket until next year so

:11:00. > :11:01.your back pocket until next year so your back pocket until next year so

:11:01. > :11:02.your back pocket until next year so you can have a big spending splurge

:11:02. > :11:03.you can have a big spending splurge you can have a big spending splurge

:11:03. > :11:05.you can have a big spending splurge ahead of the referendum? Not at all.

:11:05. > :11:06.ahead of the referendum? Not at all. ahead of the referendum? Not at all.

:11:06. > :11:07.This is just nonsense. What we This is just nonsense. What we

:11:07. > :11:09.This is just nonsense. What we found is that project-based funding,

:11:09. > :11:09.found is that project-based funding, found is that project-based funding,

:11:09. > :11:10.the project has to come together the project has to come together

:11:10. > :11:12.the project has to come together the project has to come together

:11:12. > :11:13.and be planned before the money can and be planned before the money can

:11:13. > :11:15.and be planned before the money can actually be spent. That is taking

:11:15. > :11:17.actually be spent. That is taking actually be spent. That is taking

:11:17. > :11:18.longer than was may be anticipated longer than was may be anticipated

:11:18. > :11:20.longer than was may be anticipated it when the very first projections

:11:20. > :11:21.it when the very first projections it when the very first projections

:11:21. > :11:23.it when the very first projections were made. I make no apologies for

:11:23. > :11:24.were made. I make no apologies for were made. I make no apologies for

:11:24. > :11:25.replacing the toxic PFI system with replacing the toxic PFI system with

:11:25. > :11:26.replacing the toxic PFI system with replacing the toxic PFI system with

:11:26. > :11:27.a system that is there and put less a system that is there and put less

:11:27. > :11:28.a system that is there and put less business -- money into business and

:11:28. > :11:31.business -- money into business and business -- money into business and

:11:31. > :11:32.delivers more for the people of delivers more for the people of

:11:32. > :11:35.delivers more for the people of Scotland. It is a much fairer

:11:35. > :11:36.Scotland. It is a much fairer Scotland. It is a much fairer

:11:36. > :11:38.system, isn't it, because the system, isn't it, because the

:11:38. > :11:38.system, isn't it, because the Labour/Lib Dem executive pursue did

:11:38. > :11:40.Labour/Lib Dem executive pursue did Labour/Lib Dem executive pursue did

:11:40. > :11:41.Labour/Lib Dem executive pursue did as well and it is a fairer system.

:11:41. > :11:42.as well and it is a fairer system. as well and it is a fairer system.

:11:42. > :11:43.I have nothing against the system. I have nothing against the system.

:11:43. > :11:44.I have nothing against the system. I have nothing against the system.

:11:44. > :11:47.It is a different version of PFI It is a different version of PFI

:11:47. > :11:49.It is a different version of PFI but I have no difficulties. Labour

:11:49. > :11:50.but I have no difficulties. Labour but I have no difficulties. Labour

:11:50. > :11:51.introduced it. The difficulties I introduced it. The difficulties I

:11:51. > :11:52.introduced it. The difficulties I introduced it. The difficulties I

:11:52. > :11:54.have are that these projects do not have are that these projects do not

:11:54. > :11:56.have are that these projects do not exist. The SNP keeps talking about

:11:56. > :11:57.exist. The SNP keeps talking about exist. The SNP keeps talking about

:11:57. > :11:58.shovel ready projects and they are shovel ready projects and they are

:11:58. > :12:00.shovel ready projects and they are de berating everybody, it is

:12:00. > :12:01.de berating everybody, it is de berating everybody, it is

:12:01. > :12:03.everybody's else's fault in not everybody's else's fault in not

:12:03. > :12:07.everybody's else's fault in not investing in these projects but

:12:07. > :12:09.investing in these projects but investing in these projects but

:12:09. > :12:10.investing in these projects but they're just on a list. This year

:12:10. > :12:12.they're just on a list. This year they're just on a list. This year

:12:12. > :12:13.140 million should have gone into 140 million should have gone into

:12:13. > :12:15.140 million should have gone into schools and has not happened. A

:12:15. > :12:16.schools and has not happened. A schools and has not happened. A

:12:16. > :12:17.whole generation, a whole cohort of whole generation, a whole cohort of

:12:17. > :12:18.whole generation, a whole cohort of whole generation, a whole cohort of

:12:18. > :12:20.pupils will miss out. I want to pupils will miss out. I want to

:12:21. > :12:22.pupils will miss out. I want to move on to another issue now.

:12:22. > :12:25.move on to another issue now. Nicola Sturgeon was saying

:12:25. > :12:26.Nicola Sturgeon was saying Nicola Sturgeon was saying

:12:26. > :12:31.yesterday that Scotland faces a yesterday that Scotland faces a

:12:31. > :12:32.yesterday that Scotland faces a European Union funding cut worth

:12:32. > :12:33.European Union funding cut worth European Union funding cut worth

:12:33. > :12:34.European Union funding cut worth 0.2 �5 billion. This seems to be a

:12:34. > :12:36.0.2 �5 billion. This seems to be a 0.2 �5 billion. This seems to be a

:12:36. > :12:37.settlement that has not quite been settlement that has not quite been

:12:37. > :12:38.settlement that has not quite been settlement that has not quite been

:12:39. > :12:40.agreed yet. How has she come to the agreed yet. How has she come to the

:12:40. > :12:43.agreed yet. How has she come to the figure? It is to do with

:12:43. > :12:45.figure? It is to do with negotiations for the internal

:12:45. > :12:45.negotiations for the internal framework. The mechanism for

:12:45. > :12:47.framework. The mechanism for framework. The mechanism for

:12:47. > :12:48.distributing the money has been distributing the money has been

:12:48. > :12:49.distributing the money has been changed and because it is now

:12:49. > :12:52.changed and because it is now changed and because it is now

:12:52. > :12:53.screwed -- skewed at a population screwed -- skewed at a population

:12:53. > :12:53.screwed -- skewed at a population rather than geographical area it is

:12:53. > :12:54.rather than geographical area it is rather than geographical area it is

:12:54. > :12:57.rather than geographical area it is that Scotland will miss out by 30%

:12:57. > :12:59.that Scotland will miss out by 30% that Scotland will miss out by 30%

:12:59. > :13:00.if the figures from the initial if the figures from the initial

:13:00. > :13:01.if the figures from the initial model would show. What we are

:13:01. > :13:03.model would show. What we are model would show. What we are

:13:03. > :13:04.asking is that the UK Government asking is that the UK Government

:13:04. > :13:05.asking is that the UK Government sit down with Scotland and the

:13:05. > :13:05.sit down with Scotland and the sit down with Scotland and the

:13:05. > :13:07.sit down with Scotland and the other devolved areas to look at how

:13:07. > :13:08.other devolved areas to look at how other devolved areas to look at how

:13:08. > :13:10.this can be negotiated so that this can be negotiated so that

:13:10. > :13:12.this can be negotiated so that this can be negotiated so that

:13:12. > :13:15.Scotland is not getting such a huge Scotland is not getting such a huge

:13:15. > :13:16.Scotland is not getting such a huge cut in its structural funding.

:13:16. > :13:18.cut in its structural funding. cut in its structural funding.

:13:18. > :13:19.cut in its structural funding. you and the SNP both voted for a

:13:19. > :13:20.you and the SNP both voted for a you and the SNP both voted for a

:13:20. > :13:22.you and the SNP both voted for a cut in the UK budget of last year

:13:22. > :13:23.cut in the UK budget of last year cut in the UK budget of last year

:13:23. > :13:25.it so maybe you cannot complain it so maybe you cannot complain

:13:25. > :13:26.it so maybe you cannot complain it so maybe you cannot complain

:13:26. > :13:29.about a cut in the funding for about a cut in the funding for

:13:29. > :13:30.about a cut in the funding for Scotland. -- Ken Macintosh.

:13:30. > :13:31.Scotland. -- Ken Macintosh. Scotland. -- Ken Macintosh.

:13:31. > :13:32.Nicola Sturgeon said yesterday -- Nicola Sturgeon said yesterday --

:13:32. > :13:34.Nicola Sturgeon said yesterday -- Nicola Sturgeon said yesterday --

:13:34. > :13:35.did not say yesterday is that there did not say yesterday is that there

:13:35. > :13:36.did not say yesterday is that there are hundreds of millions of pounds

:13:36. > :13:39.are hundreds of millions of pounds are hundreds of millions of pounds

:13:39. > :13:40.of European funding which are not of European funding which are not

:13:40. > :13:41.of European funding which are not being claimed by Scotland. There is

:13:41. > :13:41.being claimed by Scotland. There is being claimed by Scotland. There is

:13:41. > :13:43.issued programme which would help issued programme which would help

:13:43. > :13:45.issued programme which would help issued programme which would help

:13:45. > :13:48.people who lose their job, any big people who lose their job, any big

:13:48. > :13:49.people who lose their job, any big employer who sacks more than 400

:13:49. > :13:51.employer who sacks more than 400 employer who sacks more than 400

:13:51. > :13:52.workers or closes down, you can workers or closes down, you can

:13:52. > :13:53.workers or closes down, you can claim assistance from Europe in

:13:53. > :13:54.claim assistance from Europe in claim assistance from Europe in

:13:54. > :13:55.programmes such as that of the programmes such as that of the

:13:55. > :13:56.programmes such as that of the Scottish government is not claiming

:13:57. > :13:58.Scottish government is not claiming Scottish government is not claiming

:13:58. > :13:59.against a lot of these programmes against a lot of these programmes

:13:59. > :14:01.against a lot of these programmes against a lot of these programmes

:14:01. > :14:02.and it is a wasted opportunity for and it is a wasted opportunity for

:14:02. > :14:04.and it is a wasted opportunity for assistance. We are working within a

:14:04. > :14:05.assistance. We are working within a assistance. We are working within a

:14:05. > :14:06.declining European budget now as we declining European budget now as we

:14:06. > :14:06.declining European budget now as we declining European budget now as we

:14:06. > :14:07.have a declining budget here in the have a declining budget here in the

:14:07. > :14:09.have a declining budget here in the have a declining budget here in the

:14:09. > :14:10.UK but if you do not maximise your UK but if you do not maximise your

:14:10. > :14:11.UK but if you do not maximise your opportunities within that, it is

:14:12. > :14:12.opportunities within that, it is opportunities within that, it is

:14:12. > :14:14.difficult to always point the difficult to always point the

:14:14. > :14:16.difficult to always point the finger of blame elsewhere. Murdo

:14:16. > :14:18.finger of blame elsewhere. Murdo finger of blame elsewhere. Murdo

:14:18. > :14:20.Fraser, finally to year. David Fraser, finally to year. David

:14:20. > :14:20.Fraser, finally to year. David Cameron negotiate a lower EU budget

:14:21. > :14:21.Cameron negotiate a lower EU budget Cameron negotiate a lower EU budget

:14:21. > :14:22.but do you think Scotland is but do you think Scotland is

:14:22. > :14:23.but do you think Scotland is but do you think Scotland is

:14:23. > :14:24.bearing the brunt of that? It is a bearing the brunt of that? It is a

:14:24. > :14:25.bearing the brunt of that? It is a bearing the brunt of that? It is a

:14:25. > :14:26.good deal from the UK and a good good deal from the UK and a good

:14:26. > :14:28.good deal from the UK and a good deal for British taxpayers to have

:14:28. > :14:29.deal for British taxpayers to have deal for British taxpayers to have

:14:29. > :14:30.deal for British taxpayers to have a cut in the EU budget overall.

:14:30. > :14:31.a cut in the EU budget overall. a cut in the EU budget overall.

:14:31. > :14:32.a cut in the EU budget overall. This is a consequence of that and

:14:32. > :14:33.This is a consequence of that and This is a consequence of that and

:14:33. > :14:35.This is a consequence of that and the SNP will are now bleating about

:14:35. > :14:36.the SNP will are now bleating about the SNP will are now bleating about

:14:36. > :14:37.this, have voted for that in this, have voted for that in

:14:37. > :14:38.this, have voted for that in Westminster. There is a lot of

:14:38. > :14:39.Westminster. There is a lot of Westminster. There is a lot of

:14:39. > :14:41.scaremongering from the SNP. There scaremongering from the SNP. There

:14:41. > :14:42.scaremongering from the SNP. There has been no allocation of funding,

:14:42. > :14:43.has been no allocation of funding, has been no allocation of funding,

:14:44. > :14:45.has been no allocation of funding, there is no cut in the Budget, that

:14:45. > :14:47.there is no cut in the Budget, that there is no cut in the Budget, that

:14:47. > :14:48.figure is plucked from the air. figure is plucked from the air.

:14:48. > :14:50.figure is plucked from the air. There are ongoing negotiations with

:14:50. > :14:51.There are ongoing negotiations with There are ongoing negotiations with

:14:51. > :14:52.the UK Government and devolving the UK Government and devolving

:14:52. > :14:53.the UK Government and devolving administration that have the money

:14:53. > :14:53.administration that have the money administration that have the money

:14:53. > :14:56.administration that have the money will be handed out so at the moment

:14:56. > :14:56.will be handed out so at the moment will be handed out so at the moment

:14:56. > :14:57.will be handed out so at the moment there are a lot of errors and

:14:57. > :14:58.there are a lot of errors and there are a lot of errors and

:14:59. > :15:00.scaremongering and nothing to worry scaremongering and nothing to worry

:15:00. > :15:00.scaremongering and nothing to worry scaremongering and nothing to worry

:15:00. > :15:10.about. We have to leave it there. about. We have to leave it there.

:15:10. > :15:16.

:15:16. > :15:19.Look at lets cross to the chamber. Look at lets cross to the chamber.

:15:19. > :15:21.Glenn Campbell is watching proceedings.

:15:21. > :15:22.proceedings. proceedings.

:15:22. > :15:24.proceedings. The debate is underway. That is the

:15:24. > :15:25.The debate is underway. That is the finance secretary making an

:15:25. > :15:27.finance secretary making an finance secretary making an

:15:27. > :15:28.intervention on behalf of the intervention on behalf of the

:15:28. > :15:29.intervention on behalf of the government. Gavin Brown is leading

:15:29. > :15:31.government. Gavin Brown is leading government. Gavin Brown is leading

:15:31. > :15:32.the debate for the Conservatives. the debate for the Conservatives.

:15:32. > :15:33.the debate for the Conservatives. the debate for the Conservatives.

:15:33. > :15:35.Mr Sweeney has said the reason the Mr Sweeney has said the reason the

:15:35. > :15:36.Mr Sweeney has said the reason the government is pursuing a non profit

:15:36. > :15:37.government is pursuing a non profit distribution model of capital

:15:37. > :15:39.distribution model of capital distribution model of capital

:15:39. > :15:40.funding is because of budget cuts funding is because of budget cuts

:15:40. > :15:41.funding is because of budget cuts the Scottish government has faced

:15:41. > :15:42.the Scottish government has faced the Scottish government has faced

:15:42. > :15:49.the Scottish government has faced from the UK. Let's listen to the

:15:49. > :15:50.debate. debate.

:15:50. > :15:52.debate. They are determined to discuss

:15:52. > :15:53.They are determined to discuss They are determined to discuss

:15:53. > :15:54.anything except the NPD programme. anything except the NPD programme.

:15:54. > :15:56.anything except the NPD programme. They want to talk about anything

:15:56. > :15:57.They want to talk about anything They want to talk about anything

:15:57. > :15:58.and everything except things for and everything except things for

:15:58. > :16:00.which they have responsibility. which they have responsibility.

:16:00. > :16:01.which they have responsibility. which they have responsibility.

:16:01. > :16:02.Let's look at the facts. At the Let's look at the facts. At the

:16:02. > :16:06.Let's look at the facts. At the time of the spending review last

:16:06. > :16:08.time of the spending review last time of the spending review last

:16:08. > :16:11.year, they said they would spend year, they said they would spend

:16:11. > :16:21.year, they said they would spend between �50 million and �150

:16:21. > :16:22.between �50 million and �150 million in that year.

:16:22. > :16:25.million in that year. million in that year.

:16:25. > :16:28.What happened on the ground in What happened on the ground in

:16:28. > :16:29.What happened on the ground in What happened on the ground in

:16:29. > :16:30.2012-13, we are told, will be �20 2012-13, we are told, will be �20

:16:30. > :16:32.2012-13, we are told, will be �20 million, and the latest projections

:16:32. > :16:34.million, and the latest projections million, and the latest projections

:16:34. > :16:37.million, and the latest projections for the next financial year will be

:16:37. > :16:38.for the next financial year will be for the next financial year will be

:16:38. > :16:40.�330 million instead of �686 �330 million instead of �686

:16:40. > :16:42.�330 million instead of �686 million. This parliament and this

:16:42. > :16:44.million. This parliament and this country deserves an explanation.

:16:44. > :16:45.country deserves an explanation. country deserves an explanation.

:16:45. > :16:47.Because initially when it was clear Because initially when it was clear

:16:47. > :16:48.Because initially when it was clear that they had over promised and

:16:48. > :16:50.that they had over promised and under delivered, their clear

:16:50. > :16:51.under delivered, their clear under delivered, their clear

:16:51. > :16:52.strategy was simply not to mention strategy was simply not to mention

:16:52. > :16:53.strategy was simply not to mention strategy was simply not to mention

:16:53. > :16:55.it. Let's not mention it in the it. Let's not mention it in the

:16:55. > :16:56.it. Let's not mention it in the Budget or anywhere else. What they

:16:56. > :16:57.Budget or anywhere else. What they Budget or anywhere else. What they

:16:57. > :16:59.Budget or anywhere else. What they actually said in the Budget is that

:16:59. > :17:01.actually said in the Budget is that actually said in the Budget is that

:17:01. > :17:03.they were exhilarating the NPD they were exhilarating the NPD

:17:03. > :17:05.they were exhilarating the NPD pipeline. They didn't admit it was

:17:05. > :17:05.pipeline. They didn't admit it was been decelerated, they actually

:17:05. > :17:09.been decelerated, they actually been decelerated, they actually

:17:09. > :17:09.said they were accelerating it, and said they were accelerating it, and

:17:09. > :17:10.said they were accelerating it, and said they were accelerating it, and

:17:10. > :17:11.they said the pipeline was so good they said the pipeline was so good

:17:11. > :17:13.they said the pipeline was so good that everyone else around the world

:17:13. > :17:14.that everyone else around the world that everyone else around the world

:17:14. > :17:17.that everyone else around the world wanted to copy what they are doing.

:17:17. > :17:18.wanted to copy what they are doing. wanted to copy what they are doing.

:17:18. > :17:19.wanted to copy what they are doing. I have heard... Also they say there

:17:19. > :17:20.I have heard... Also they say there I have heard... Also they say there

:17:21. > :17:23.is at variance, the figures are is at variance, the figures are

:17:23. > :17:24.is at variance, the figures are different. When you say you will

:17:24. > :17:26.different. When you say you will different. When you say you will

:17:26. > :17:27.different. When you say you will get 353 and to deliver 20, that is

:17:27. > :17:29.get 353 and to deliver 20, that is get 353 and to deliver 20, that is

:17:29. > :17:31.stretching the definition of the stretching the definition of the

:17:31. > :17:33.stretching the definition of the word variants to quite a degree.

:17:33. > :17:34.word variants to quite a degree. word variants to quite a degree.

:17:34. > :17:35.Once they finally had to confront Once they finally had to confront

:17:35. > :17:37.Once they finally had to confront Once they finally had to confront

:17:37. > :17:39.the issue, or we have had numerous the issue, or we have had numerous

:17:39. > :17:41.the issue, or we have had numerous excuses about the reason. The

:17:41. > :17:41.excuses about the reason. The excuses about the reason. The

:17:41. > :17:43.Aberdeen pet -- Aberdeen Western Aberdeen pet -- Aberdeen Western

:17:43. > :17:45.Aberdeen pet -- Aberdeen Western peripheral Brut, it was all its

:17:45. > :17:45.peripheral Brut, it was all its peripheral Brut, it was all its

:17:45. > :17:47.peripheral Brut, it was all its faults. We have had that at least

:17:47. > :17:48.faults. We have had that at least faults. We have had that at least

:17:48. > :17:50.twice from the First Minister. But twice from the First Minister. But

:17:50. > :17:50.twice from the First Minister. But twice from the First Minister. But

:17:50. > :17:52.when we get the documents from the when we get the documents from the

:17:52. > :17:54.government about the forecast government about the forecast

:17:54. > :17:55.government about the forecast profile, it was clear that money

:17:55. > :17:58.profile, it was clear that money profile, it was clear that money

:17:58. > :18:00.profile, it was clear that money wasn't projected to be spent on the

:18:00. > :18:02.wasn't projected to be spent on the wasn't projected to be spent on the

:18:02. > :18:04.routes until 2013-14. So that routes until 2013-14. So that

:18:04. > :18:05.routes until 2013-14. So that doesn't explain 11-12 or 12-13 even

:18:05. > :18:07.doesn't explain 11-12 or 12-13 even doesn't explain 11-12 or 12-13 even

:18:07. > :18:08.doesn't explain 11-12 or 12-13 even by a penny. Then it was the fault

:18:08. > :18:09.by a penny. Then it was the fault by a penny. Then it was the fault

:18:09. > :18:10.by a penny. Then it was the fault up a hospital in Edinburgh, a big

:18:10. > :18:11.up a hospital in Edinburgh, a big up a hospital in Edinburgh, a big

:18:11. > :18:12.project delayed for a number of project delayed for a number of

:18:12. > :18:14.project delayed for a number of reasons, but when we get the

:18:14. > :18:15.reasons, but when we get the official government paper, money

:18:15. > :18:17.official government paper, money official government paper, money

:18:17. > :18:18.wasn't projected to be spent on wasn't projected to be spent on

:18:19. > :18:21.wasn't projected to be spent on that until 2014-15, so that doesn't

:18:21. > :18:22.that until 2014-15, so that doesn't that until 2014-15, so that doesn't

:18:22. > :18:23.that until 2014-15, so that doesn't explain it either. Then we had a

:18:23. > :18:24.explain it either. Then we had a explain it either. Then we had a

:18:24. > :18:25.partially true excuse, that it was partially true excuse, that it was

:18:25. > :18:26.partially true excuse, that it was partially true excuse, that it was

:18:26. > :18:28.all down to the borders rail link. all down to the borders rail link.

:18:28. > :18:29.all down to the borders rail link. This project is well over �300

:18:29. > :18:31.This project is well over �300 million which explains the

:18:31. > :18:33.million which explains the million which explains the

:18:33. > :18:34.difference. But when we get the difference. But when we get the

:18:34. > :18:38.official government paperwork, it official government paperwork, it

:18:38. > :18:39.official government paperwork, it official government paperwork, it

:18:39. > :18:42.counts for nothing in 11-12 and �39 counts for nothing in 11-12 and �39

:18:42. > :18:42.counts for nothing in 11-12 and �39 counts for nothing in 11-12 and �39

:18:42. > :18:44.million out of the �353 million in million out of the �353 million in

:18:44. > :18:46.million out of the �353 million in the current financial year. So none

:18:46. > :18:47.the current financial year. So none the current financial year. So none

:18:47. > :18:48.the current financial year. So none of those excuses explain it at all.

:18:48. > :18:50.of those excuses explain it at all. of those excuses explain it at all.

:18:50. > :18:51.of those excuses explain it at all. So we move then from the incorrect

:18:51. > :18:52.So we move then from the incorrect So we move then from the incorrect

:18:52. > :18:53.to the inept from the Scottish to the inept from the Scottish

:18:53. > :18:53.to the inept from the Scottish government, because when asked for

:18:53. > :18:54.government, because when asked for government, because when asked for

:18:54. > :18:56.government, because when asked for a list of projects that have been

:18:56. > :18:57.a list of projects that have been a list of projects that have been

:18:57. > :18:58.delivered, the First Minister stood delivered, the First Minister stood

:18:58. > :18:59.delivered, the First Minister stood delivered, the First Minister stood

:18:59. > :19:00.up in this chamber and reeled off a up in this chamber and reeled off a

:19:00. > :19:03.up in this chamber and reeled off a list of 20 projects that hadn't

:19:03. > :19:04.list of 20 projects that hadn't list of 20 projects that hadn't

:19:04. > :19:05.been delivered. In most cases been delivered. In most cases

:19:05. > :19:07.been delivered. In most cases hadn't even been started. We then

:19:07. > :19:08.hadn't even been started. We then hadn't even been started. We then

:19:08. > :19:09.had from the Deputy First Minister had from the Deputy First Minister

:19:09. > :19:10.had from the Deputy First Minister a topical question, the reason

:19:11. > :19:12.a topical question, the reason a topical question, the reason

:19:12. > :19:14.given for the delays was because given for the delays was because

:19:14. > :19:15.given for the delays was because these are large, complex projects

:19:15. > :19:16.these are large, complex projects these are large, complex projects

:19:16. > :19:18.these are large, complex projects been procured by a wide range of

:19:18. > :19:20.been procured by a wide range of procuring authorities. Presiding

:19:20. > :19:22.procuring authorities. Presiding procuring authorities. Presiding

:19:22. > :19:24.officer, they were always large, officer, they were always large,

:19:24. > :19:25.officer, they were always large, complex projects, they were always

:19:25. > :19:26.complex projects, they were always complex projects, they were always

:19:26. > :19:28.complex projects, they were always been procured by it a large range

:19:28. > :19:29.been procured by it a large range of procuring authorities. The

:19:29. > :19:30.of procuring authorities. The of procuring authorities. The

:19:30. > :19:31.deputy First Minister also said deputy First Minister also said

:19:31. > :19:32.deputy First Minister also said they are delayed because time was

:19:32. > :19:34.they are delayed because time was they are delayed because time was

:19:34. > :19:35.taken up on the preparation and taken up on the preparation and

:19:36. > :19:37.taken up on the preparation and design stage. That was always going

:19:37. > :19:39.design stage. That was always going design stage. That was always going

:19:39. > :19:40.to be the case with any to be the case with any

:19:40. > :19:41.to be the case with any construction project in the history

:19:41. > :19:42.construction project in the history construction project in the history

:19:42. > :19:44.construction project in the history of the world's. There is always a

:19:44. > :19:47.of the world's. There is always a of the world's. There is always a

:19:47. > :19:48.preparation and a design stage. preparation and a design stage.

:19:48. > :19:49.preparation and a design stage. That was Gavin Brown from the

:19:49. > :19:51.That was Gavin Brown from the Conservative speaking about the

:19:51. > :19:52.Conservative speaking about the Conservative speaking about the

:19:52. > :19:53.delay in capital building projects. delay in capital building projects.

:19:53. > :19:54.delay in capital building projects. delay in capital building projects.

:19:54. > :19:57.We will come back to that later. A We will come back to that later. A

:19:57. > :19:57.We will come back to that later. A minute ago we were discussing that

:19:57. > :19:58.minute ago we were discussing that minute ago we were discussing that

:19:58. > :19:59.the deputy First Minister Nicola the deputy First Minister Nicola

:19:59. > :20:01.the deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says Scotland faces a

:20:01. > :20:03.Sturgeon says Scotland faces a disproportionate cuts in EU

:20:03. > :20:04.disproportionate cuts in EU disproportionate cuts in EU

:20:04. > :20:06.structural funds. She has told MSPs structural funds. She has told MSPs

:20:06. > :20:07.structural funds. She has told MSPs structural funds. She has told MSPs

:20:07. > :20:09.she is concerned that the recent EU she is concerned that the recent EU

:20:09. > :20:09.she is concerned that the recent EU budget settlement could reduce:'s

:20:09. > :20:11.budget settlement could reduce:'s budget settlement could reduce:'s

:20:11. > :20:12.allocation by a quarter of a allocation by a quarter of a

:20:12. > :20:13.allocation by a quarter of a billion pounds. But the UK

:20:13. > :20:15.billion pounds. But the UK Government has stressed final

:20:15. > :20:18.Government has stressed final Government has stressed final

:20:18. > :20:20.allocations have not been set. allocations have not been set.

:20:20. > :20:21.allocations have not been set. The UK's overall allocation for

:20:22. > :20:22.The UK's overall allocation for The UK's overall allocation for

:20:22. > :20:23.2014-20 will fall by approximately 2014-20 will fall by approximately

:20:23. > :20:25.2014-20 will fall by approximately six per cent. But initial

:20:25. > :20:26.six per cent. But initial six per cent. But initial

:20:26. > :20:27.calculations of how much each part calculations of how much each part

:20:27. > :20:29.calculations of how much each part of the UK would receive has

:20:29. > :20:30.of the UK would receive has produced concerning results and

:20:30. > :20:32.produced concerning results and produced concerning results and

:20:32. > :20:33.could see Scotland face an overall could see Scotland face an overall

:20:34. > :20:34.could see Scotland face an overall could see Scotland face an overall

:20:34. > :20:35.reduction of over 30 per cent with reduction of over 30 per cent with

:20:35. > :20:36.reduction of over 30 per cent with by far the biggest reduction been

:20:36. > :20:38.by far the biggest reduction been by far the biggest reduction been

:20:38. > :20:39.in the Highlands and Islands. in the Highlands and Islands.

:20:39. > :20:40.in the Highlands and Islands. in the Highlands and Islands.

:20:40. > :20:42.A I am joined by our commentator A I am joined by our commentator

:20:42. > :20:43.A I am joined by our commentator for the afternoon, Gerry Hassan. It

:20:43. > :20:45.for the afternoon, Gerry Hassan. It for the afternoon, Gerry Hassan. It

:20:45. > :20:47.was interesting to see what was was interesting to see what was

:20:47. > :20:48.was interesting to see what was happening with this. We are hearing

:20:48. > :20:49.happening with this. We are hearing happening with this. We are hearing

:20:49. > :20:50.happening with this. We are hearing from Murdo Fraser that this is a

:20:50. > :20:52.from Murdo Fraser that this is a from Murdo Fraser that this is a

:20:52. > :20:53.from Murdo Fraser that this is a Budget that is not yet agreed, that

:20:53. > :20:54.Budget that is not yet agreed, that Budget that is not yet agreed, that

:20:54. > :20:55.Nicola Sturgeon was categorical in Nicola Sturgeon was categorical in

:20:55. > :20:56.Nicola Sturgeon was categorical in Nicola Sturgeon was categorical in

:20:56. > :20:57.the fact that it was a reduction the fact that it was a reduction

:20:57. > :20:58.the fact that it was a reduction for Scotland. They could both be

:20:58. > :20:59.for Scotland. They could both be for Scotland. They could both be

:20:59. > :21:02.for Scotland. They could both be right. She said it could be a

:21:02. > :21:02.right. She said it could be a right. She said it could be a

:21:02. > :21:03.reduction for Scotland, at Murdo reduction for Scotland, at Murdo

:21:03. > :21:05.reduction for Scotland, at Murdo Fraser said the final figures

:21:05. > :21:06.Fraser said the final figures Fraser said the final figures

:21:06. > :21:07.haven't been set. But there was haven't been set. But there was

:21:07. > :21:09.haven't been set. But there was agreement that the EU budget is

:21:09. > :21:10.agreement that the EU budget is agreement that the EU budget is

:21:10. > :21:10.falling, which means there will be falling, which means there will be

:21:10. > :21:11.falling, which means there will be falling, which means there will be

:21:11. > :21:12.falling, which means there will be a fall in EU funds to the UK, and

:21:12. > :21:13.a fall in EU funds to the UK, and a fall in EU funds to the UK, and

:21:13. > :21:18.that has consequences for Scotland, that has consequences for Scotland,

:21:18. > :21:19.that has consequences for Scotland, that has consequences for Scotland,

:21:19. > :21:20.so they both could be right. The so they both could be right. The

:21:20. > :21:21.so they both could be right. The so they both could be right. The

:21:21. > :21:22.question is who takes the blame for question is who takes the blame for

:21:22. > :21:23.question is who takes the blame for question is who takes the blame for

:21:23. > :21:24.this. It is a tricky issue, and it this. It is a tricky issue, and it

:21:24. > :21:26.this. It is a tricky issue, and it seems these funds are allocated on

:21:26. > :21:27.seems these funds are allocated on seems these funds are allocated on

:21:27. > :21:28.the basis of population, which has the basis of population, which has

:21:28. > :21:29.the basis of population, which has I think when Scotland appeared to

:21:29. > :21:30.I think when Scotland appeared to I think when Scotland appeared to

:21:30. > :21:31.I think when Scotland appeared to be losing out, because it was going

:21:31. > :21:33.be losing out, because it was going be losing out, because it was going

:21:33. > :21:34.to more heavily populated areas. to more heavily populated areas.

:21:34. > :21:35.to more heavily populated areas. Yes, but there is the bigger

:21:35. > :21:37.Yes, but there is the bigger Yes, but there is the bigger

:21:37. > :21:39.picture of the EU budget falling picture of the EU budget falling

:21:39. > :21:40.picture of the EU budget falling and EU expansion to places like

:21:40. > :21:41.and EU expansion to places like and EU expansion to places like

:21:41. > :21:43.Romania and Book At -- Bulgaria, Romania and Book At -- Bulgaria,

:21:43. > :21:44.Romania and Book At -- Bulgaria, which has consequences for places

:21:44. > :21:46.which has consequences for places which has consequences for places

:21:46. > :21:47.like Scotland. They are medium and like Scotland. They are medium and

:21:47. > :21:49.like Scotland. They are medium and long-term issues about how Scotland

:21:49. > :21:50.long-term issues about how Scotland long-term issues about how Scotland

:21:50. > :21:52.long-term issues about how Scotland gains from the EU. The point about

:21:52. > :21:52.gains from the EU. The point about gains from the EU. The point about

:21:52. > :21:53.the structural funds, where they the structural funds, where they

:21:53. > :21:55.the structural funds, where they went to areas needing the money

:21:55. > :21:55.went to areas needing the money went to areas needing the money

:21:55. > :21:57.went to areas needing the money which would help lift them out of

:21:57. > :21:58.which would help lift them out of which would help lift them out of

:21:58. > :22:00.poverty or economic inactivity, and poverty or economic inactivity, and

:22:00. > :22:02.poverty or economic inactivity, and as you mentioned, with EU expansion,

:22:02. > :22:03.as you mentioned, with EU expansion, as you mentioned, with EU expansion,

:22:03. > :22:04.once that happens, once it is once that happens, once it is

:22:04. > :22:09.once that happens, once it is improve, the money could go east,

:22:09. > :22:12.improve, the money could go east, improve, the money could go east,

:22:12. > :22:12.maybe. Under Thatcher, Scotland was maybe. Under Thatcher, Scotland was

:22:12. > :22:13.festooned with European Commission festooned with European Commission

:22:13. > :22:15.festooned with European Commission festooned with European Commission

:22:15. > :22:16.and EU flags, and maybe those days and EU flags, and maybe those days

:22:16. > :22:18.and EU flags, and maybe those days and EU flags, and maybe those days

:22:18. > :22:19.have passed. The you got a lot of have passed. The you got a lot of

:22:19. > :22:20.have passed. The you got a lot of profile for its investment in

:22:20. > :22:21.profile for its investment in profile for its investment in

:22:21. > :22:22.profile for its investment in Scotland those days -- the you.

:22:22. > :22:23.Scotland those days -- the you. Scotland those days -- the you.

:22:23. > :22:24.Scotland those days -- the you. have heard a lot recently about the

:22:24. > :22:26.have heard a lot recently about the have heard a lot recently about the

:22:26. > :22:27.cut to the European budget. David cut to the European budget. David

:22:27. > :22:28.cut to the European budget. David Cameron went to Brussels to

:22:28. > :22:29.Cameron went to Brussels to Cameron went to Brussels to

:22:29. > :22:31.negotiate that. But perhaps there negotiate that. But perhaps there

:22:31. > :22:33.negotiate that. But perhaps there are repercussions from that. Yes.

:22:33. > :22:35.are repercussions from that. Yes. are repercussions from that. Yes.

:22:35. > :22:36.As always there are unintended As always there are unintended

:22:36. > :22:37.As always there are unintended consequences, and this is something

:22:37. > :22:40.consequences, and this is something consequences, and this is something

:22:40. > :22:40.that will affect Scotland and have that will affect Scotland and have

:22:40. > :22:41.political ramifications, affected political ramifications, affected

:22:41. > :22:42.political ramifications, affected political ramifications, affected

:22:42. > :22:43.the book across the whole UK. the book across the whole UK.

:22:43. > :22:44.the book across the whole UK. the book across the whole UK.

:22:44. > :22:46.suppose at the end of the day when suppose at the end of the day when

:22:46. > :22:48.suppose at the end of the day when it comes to that money politicians

:22:48. > :22:49.it comes to that money politicians it comes to that money politicians

:22:49. > :22:51.it comes to that money politicians it comes to that money politicians

:22:51. > :22:53.in the UK have to make the you look in the UK have to make the you look

:22:53. > :22:55.in the UK have to make the you look in the UK have to make the you look

:22:55. > :22:57.as if it is adhering to the strict as if it is adhering to the strict

:22:58. > :22:59.spending regulations and getting spending regulations and getting

:22:59. > :23:00.spending regulations and getting the books. Rather than standing up

:23:00. > :23:03.the books. Rather than standing up the books. Rather than standing up

:23:03. > :23:04.the books. Rather than standing up to the EU, they are also looking to

:23:04. > :23:05.to the EU, they are also looking to to the EU, they are also looking to

:23:05. > :23:06.to the EU, they are also looking to get a larger part of the decline in

:23:06. > :23:07.get a larger part of the decline in get a larger part of the decline in

:23:07. > :23:09.get a larger part of the decline in part, so there is a complex sense

:23:09. > :23:10.part, so there is a complex sense part, so there is a complex sense

:23:10. > :23:12.part, so there is a complex sense of how your balance that, you are

:23:12. > :23:12.of how your balance that, you are of how your balance that, you are

:23:12. > :23:14.of how your balance that, you are having to play to a very complex,

:23:14. > :23:14.having to play to a very complex, having to play to a very complex,

:23:14. > :23:15.different audiences at the same different audiences at the same

:23:15. > :23:17.different audiences at the same different audiences at the same

:23:17. > :23:18.time and often been the same speech. time and often been the same speech.

:23:18. > :23:19.time and often been the same speech. time and often been the same speech.

:23:19. > :23:20.Thank you. Back with you in a moment.

:23:21. > :23:21.moment. moment.

:23:21. > :23:22.moment. Let's cross back to the chamber at

:23:22. > :23:24.Let's cross back to the chamber at Let's cross back to the chamber at

:23:24. > :23:26.Holyrood where the debate on the Holyrood where the debate on the

:23:26. > :23:27.capital spending projects is capital spending projects is

:23:27. > :23:29.capital spending projects is continuing. Glenn Campbell is once

:23:29. > :23:32.continuing. Glenn Campbell is once again standing by.

:23:32. > :23:34.again standing by. again standing by.

:23:34. > :23:35.That is the cabinet secretary for That is the cabinet secretary for

:23:35. > :23:36.infrastructure responding to this infrastructure responding to this

:23:36. > :23:38.Conservative-led debate, and Nicola Conservative-led debate, and Nicola

:23:38. > :23:39.Conservative-led debate, and Nicola Sturgeon said it was calling the

:23:39. > :23:40.Sturgeon said it was calling the Conservatives had brought the

:23:40. > :23:42.Conservatives had brought the Conservatives had brought the

:23:42. > :23:43.debate to the chamber on capital debate to the chamber on capital

:23:43. > :23:45.debate to the chamber on capital projects, because, and she has

:23:45. > :23:46.projects, because, and she has projects, because, and she has

:23:46. > :23:47.underlined that this act least underlined that this act least

:23:47. > :23:48.underlined that this act least underlined that this act least

:23:48. > :23:50.twice so far, the UK Government has twice so far, the UK Government has

:23:50. > :23:51.cut the Scottish government's cut the Scottish government's

:23:51. > :23:52.cut the Scottish government's cut the Scottish government's

:23:52. > :23:53.capital budget by 26 per cent in capital budget by 26 per cent in

:23:53. > :23:55.capital budget by 26 per cent in real terms over the UK spending

:23:55. > :23:57.real terms over the UK spending real terms over the UK spending

:23:57. > :23:58.review period. That is their main review period. That is their main

:23:58. > :23:59.review period. That is their main response. Let's hear what does she

:23:59. > :24:01.response. Let's hear what does she has to say.

:24:01. > :24:04.has to say. has to say.

:24:04. > :24:05.has to say. A... An amount that will rise to

:24:05. > :24:06.A... An amount that will rise to A... An amount that will rise to

:24:06. > :24:07.�3.4 billion this year. Several �3.4 billion this year. Several

:24:07. > :24:10.�3.4 billion this year. Several projects expected to be completed

:24:10. > :24:12.projects expected to be completed projects expected to be completed

:24:12. > :24:14.and operation a look -- operational and operation a look -- operational

:24:14. > :24:16.and operation a look -- operational in 2013-14. These include health

:24:16. > :24:18.in 2013-14. These include health projects, high schools and

:24:18. > :24:19.projects, high schools and developments, and we expect

:24:19. > :24:20.developments, and we expect developments, and we expect

:24:20. > :24:23.significant progress to be made on significant progress to be made on

:24:23. > :24:25.significant progress to be made on the NPD programme in 2013-14, with

:24:25. > :24:27.the NPD programme in 2013-14, with the NPD programme in 2013-14, with

:24:27. > :24:28.major projects like Dumfries and major projects like Dumfries and

:24:28. > :24:31.major projects like Dumfries and gamma-ray row -- Dumfries and

:24:31. > :24:32.gamma-ray row -- Dumfries and Galloway Royal Infirmary, Inverness

:24:32. > :24:36.Galloway Royal Infirmary, Inverness Galloway Royal Infirmary, Inverness

:24:36. > :24:37.College and Glasgow College moving College and Glasgow College moving

:24:37. > :24:39.College and Glasgow College moving into construction. Taking forward a

:24:39. > :24:40.into construction. Taking forward a substantial programme of NPD

:24:40. > :24:44.substantial programme of NPD substantial programme of NPD

:24:44. > :24:45.Investment, just to remind the Investment, just to remind the

:24:45. > :24:46.Investment, just to remind the chamber, �2.5 billion of the

:24:46. > :24:48.chamber, �2.5 billion of the chamber, �2.5 billion of the

:24:48. > :24:50.programme is part of this programme is part of this

:24:50. > :24:52.government's approach to mitigating government's approach to mitigating

:24:52. > :24:53.government's approach to mitigating government's approach to mitigating

:24:53. > :24:54.the impact of the cuts to the the impact of the cuts to the

:24:54. > :24:55.the impact of the cuts to the capital budget. Let me respond to

:24:55. > :24:56.capital budget. Let me respond to capital budget. Let me respond to

:24:56. > :24:57.capital budget. Let me respond to some of the points made in the

:24:57. > :24:57.some of the points made in the some of the points made in the

:24:57. > :24:59.Conservative motion. As we have Conservative motion. As we have

:24:59. > :25:01.Conservative motion. As we have been abundantly clear, yes, there

:25:01. > :25:02.been abundantly clear, yes, there been abundantly clear, yes, there

:25:02. > :25:04.has been a repro filing of has been a repro filing of

:25:04. > :25:05.has been a repro filing of Investment get paid to the 12th-13

:25:05. > :25:07.Investment get paid to the 12th-13 Investment get paid to the 12th-13

:25:07. > :25:09.forecast, and how do the Tories forecast, and how do the Tories

:25:09. > :25:11.forecast, and how do the Tories know that? They know that because

:25:11. > :25:12.know that? They know that because know that? They know that because

:25:12. > :25:14.of the transparency with which this of the transparency with which this

:25:14. > :25:15.government has made that government has made that

:25:15. > :25:16.government has made that information available. So the high

:25:16. > :25:18.information available. So the high information available. So the high

:25:18. > :25:19.level estimates of the profile of level estimates of the profile of

:25:19. > :25:21.level estimates of the profile of capital investment was provided to

:25:21. > :25:22.capital investment was provided to capital investment was provided to

:25:22. > :25:25.the finance committee in 20th the finance committee in 20th

:25:25. > :25:25.January 11. Similar profile, January 11. Similar profile,

:25:25. > :25:27.January 11. Similar profile, including the grave within the

:25:27. > :25:29.including the grave within the including the grave within the

:25:29. > :25:30.draft budget in 2012-13, based on draft budget in 2012-13, based on

:25:30. > :25:32.draft budget in 2012-13, based on early estimates prepared by the

:25:32. > :25:32.early estimates prepared by the early estimates prepared by the

:25:33. > :25:34.Scottish teachers Trust. There are Scottish teachers Trust. There are

:25:34. > :25:35.Scottish teachers Trust. There are Scottish teachers Trust. There are

:25:35. > :25:37.a range of reasons for the changes a range of reasons for the changes

:25:37. > :25:38.a range of reasons for the changes in timing, because, while Gavin

:25:38. > :25:40.in timing, because, while Gavin in timing, because, while Gavin

:25:40. > :25:40.Brown might think this is Brown might think this is

:25:40. > :25:42.Brown might think this is convenient, there are 50 complex

:25:42. > :25:44.convenient, there are 50 complex convenient, there are 50 complex

:25:44. > :25:47.projects being taken forward by 30 projects being taken forward by 30

:25:47. > :25:49.procuring of Verity's. Significant procuring of Verity's. Significant

:25:49. > :25:49.procuring of Verity's. Significant procuring of Verity's. Significant

:25:49. > :25:51.work has been taken with his many work has been taken with his many

:25:51. > :25:53.authorities to develop these authorities to develop these

:25:53. > :25:54.authorities to develop these projects, and the updated profile

:25:54. > :25:55.projects, and the updated profile projects, and the updated profile

:25:55. > :25:57.reflects this more detailed level reflects this more detailed level

:25:57. > :25:57.reflects this more detailed level of scrutiny and planning. Gavin

:25:57. > :25:59.of scrutiny and planning. Gavin of scrutiny and planning. Gavin

:25:59. > :26:00.Brown seemed to suggest in his Brown seemed to suggest in his

:26:00. > :26:02.Brown seemed to suggest in his opening remarks that we should

:26:02. > :26:04.opening remarks that we should opening remarks that we should

:26:04. > :26:07.somehow or ignore the process of somehow or ignore the process of

:26:07. > :26:08.business case planning and business case planning and

:26:08. > :26:09.procurement processes. Perhaps it procurement processes. Perhaps it

:26:09. > :26:11.procurement processes. Perhaps it is that kind of irresponsibility

:26:11. > :26:12.is that kind of irresponsibility which has characterised approaches

:26:12. > :26:14.which has characterised approaches which has characterised approaches

:26:14. > :26:15.taken by parties on both the taken by parties on both the

:26:16. > :26:19.taken by parties on both the opposition benches here at at

:26:19. > :26:20.opposition benches here at at opposition benches here at at

:26:20. > :26:24.Westminster. This is a. Maids in Westminster. This is a. Maids in

:26:24. > :26:25.Westminster. This is a. Maids in Westminster. This is a. Maids in

:26:25. > :26:27.the cost review in 2010. Time taken the cost review in 2010. Time taken

:26:27. > :26:28.the cost review in 2010. Time taken to prepare projects thoroughly will

:26:28. > :26:30.to prepare projects thoroughly will to prepare projects thoroughly will

:26:30. > :26:31.deliver better value for money deliver better value for money

:26:31. > :26:33.deliver better value for money overall. For a consideration of

:26:33. > :26:35.overall. For a consideration of operation for joined-up cassette

:26:35. > :26:38.operation for joined-up cassette planning, better building

:26:38. > :26:39.planning, better building efficiency, clearly specified

:26:39. > :26:40.efficiency, clearly specified projects allowing faster

:26:40. > :26:42.projects allowing faster projects allowing faster

:26:42. > :26:44.procurement and has been the case procurement and has been the case

:26:44. > :26:46.previously, appropriate blending of previously, appropriate blending of

:26:46. > :26:47.previously, appropriate blending of previously, appropriate blending of

:26:47. > :26:50.funding to D risk projects and make funding to D risk projects and make

:26:50. > :26:51.funding to D risk projects and make them more deliverable. As I have

:26:51. > :26:51.them more deliverable. As I have them more deliverable. As I have

:26:51. > :26:53.them more deliverable. As I have indicated that a happy to do so

:26:53. > :26:54.indicated that a happy to do so indicated that a happy to do so

:26:54. > :26:56.indicated that a happy to do so again, progress as a result of that

:26:56. > :26:57.again, progress as a result of that again, progress as a result of that

:26:57. > :26:58.careful preparatory work done is careful preparatory work done is

:26:58. > :27:00.careful preparatory work done is speeding up significantly. And here

:27:00. > :27:01.speeding up significantly. And here speeding up significantly. And here

:27:01. > :27:03.is another fact the Tories don't is another fact the Tories don't

:27:03. > :27:05.is another fact the Tories don't like to hear. The estimated total

:27:05. > :27:09.like to hear. The estimated total like to hear. The estimated total

:27:09. > :27:11.value of NPD projects already in value of NPD projects already in

:27:11. > :27:16.procurement or developments is procurement or developments is

:27:16. > :27:17.procurement or developments is around �1.6 billion. �1.6 billion.

:27:17. > :27:18.around �1.6 billion. �1.6 billion. around �1.6 billion. �1.6 billion.

:27:18. > :27:18.The first help project is already The first help project is already

:27:18. > :27:21.The first help project is already in construction and will be

:27:21. > :27:25.in construction and will be completed in 2013. Inverness,

:27:25. > :27:26.completed in 2013. Inverness, Glasgow, Kilmarnock colleges along

:27:26. > :27:27.Glasgow, Kilmarnock colleges along Glasgow, Kilmarnock colleges along

:27:28. > :27:28.with motorway improvements, a range with motorway improvements, a range

:27:28. > :27:30.with motorway improvements, a range of small and community health and

:27:30. > :27:31.of small and community health and of small and community health and

:27:31. > :27:32.school projects will move into school projects will move into

:27:32. > :27:33.school projects will move into construction over the cause of this

:27:33. > :27:35.construction over the cause of this construction over the cause of this

:27:35. > :27:37.year. That is the reality. This year. That is the reality. This

:27:37. > :27:38.government is making significant government is making significant

:27:38. > :27:40.government is making significant progress despite the cuts made by

:27:40. > :27:41.progress despite the cuts made by progress despite the cuts made by

:27:41. > :27:42.the Tories, which were first the Tories, which were first

:27:42. > :27:43.the Tories, which were first planned by the last Labour

:27:43. > :27:45.planned by the last Labour planned by the last Labour

:27:45. > :27:46.government. It is the case that government. It is the case that

:27:46. > :27:47.government. It is the case that with poll powers of independence

:27:47. > :27:49.with poll powers of independence with poll powers of independence

:27:49. > :27:50.and borrowing powers, we can do and borrowing powers, we can do

:27:50. > :27:53.and borrowing powers, we can do even more -- for powers of

:27:53. > :27:55.even more -- for powers of independence. Colin Richard Baker

:27:55. > :27:57.independence. Colin Richard Baker independence. Colin Richard Baker

:27:57. > :28:01.independence. Colin Richard Baker to speak for and move the amendment.

:28:01. > :28:03.to speak for and move the amendment. to speak for and move the amendment.

:28:03. > :28:04.Five minutes please. We have been Five minutes please. We have been

:28:04. > :28:06.Five minutes please. We have been told repeatedly by ministers of how

:28:06. > :28:08.told repeatedly by ministers of how told repeatedly by ministers of how

:28:08. > :28:09.crucial the NPD programme is, the crucial the NPD programme is, the

:28:09. > :28:10.crucial the NPD programme is, the economic strategy for creating jobs

:28:11. > :28:12.economic strategy for creating jobs economic strategy for creating jobs

:28:12. > :28:13.and stimulating growth. We have and stimulating growth. We have

:28:13. > :28:14.and stimulating growth. We have agreed that the cut to capital

:28:14. > :28:15.agreed that the cut to capital agreed that the cut to capital

:28:15. > :28:16.agreed that the cut to capital budgets has been too steep and fast

:28:16. > :28:19.budgets has been too steep and fast and threaten dire economic

:28:19. > :28:20.and threaten dire economic and threaten dire economic

:28:20. > :28:21.prospects. The ministers have been prospects. The ministers have been

:28:21. > :28:23.prospects. The ministers have been Ron -- wrong in their description

:28:23. > :28:24.Ron -- wrong in their description Ron -- wrong in their description

:28:24. > :28:26.of the previous Labour government's of the previous Labour government's

:28:26. > :28:30.of the previous Labour government's spending plans in terms of

:28:30. > :28:31.spending plans in terms of spending plans in terms of

:28:31. > :28:33.infrastructure,... I am grateful to infrastructure,... I am grateful to

:28:34. > :28:37.infrastructure,... I am grateful to Mr Baker for giving way. The

:28:37. > :28:38.Mr Baker for giving way. The previous government's final Budget

:28:38. > :28:39.previous government's final Budget previous government's final Budget

:28:39. > :28:40.in March 2010 forecast net in March 2010 forecast net

:28:41. > :28:42.in March 2010 forecast net investment would fall in cash terms

:28:42. > :28:47.investment would fall in cash terms investment would fall in cash terms

:28:47. > :28:48.investment would fall in cash terms from �40 billion in 2010-11 to �23

:28:48. > :28:49.from �40 billion in 2010-11 to �23 from �40 billion in 2010-11 to �23

:28:49. > :28:50.from �40 billion in 2010-11 to �23 billion by a 14-15. The current UK

:28:50. > :28:53.billion by a 14-15. The current UK billion by a 14-15. The current UK

:28:53. > :28:54.Government's plans would see that Government's plans would see that

:28:54. > :28:56.Government's plans would see that Government's plans would see that

:28:56. > :28:57.fall from 38 billion to 26 billion. fall from 38 billion to 26 billion.

:28:57. > :28:59.fall from 38 billion to 26 billion. fall from 38 billion to 26 billion.

:28:59. > :29:00.So which part of slash and burn did So which part of slash and burn did

:29:00. > :29:02.So which part of slash and burn did Mr Baker not associate himself

:29:02. > :29:03.Mr Baker not associate himself Mr Baker not associate himself

:29:03. > :29:05.Mr Baker not associate himself with? He is making a similar claim

:29:06. > :29:07.with? He is making a similar claim with? He is making a similar claim

:29:07. > :29:09.to George Osborne. The latest to George Osborne. The latest

:29:09. > :29:10.to George Osborne. The latest figures from BRS show Mr Osborne's

:29:10. > :29:12.figures from BRS show Mr Osborne's figures from BRS show Mr Osborne's

:29:12. > :29:13.claim to spend more on claim to spend more on

:29:13. > :29:14.claim to spend more on infrastructure than what the Labour

:29:14. > :29:15.infrastructure than what the Labour infrastructure than what the Labour

:29:15. > :29:16.planned is wrong. A coalition have planned is wrong. A coalition have

:29:16. > :29:17.planned is wrong. A coalition have spent less than Labour intended.

:29:17. > :29:18.spent less than Labour intended. spent less than Labour intended.

:29:18. > :29:20.spent less than Labour intended. What we can agree on is that not

:29:20. > :29:21.What we can agree on is that not What we can agree on is that not

:29:21. > :29:22.only is he completely wrong in only is he completely wrong in

:29:22. > :29:23.only is he completely wrong in only is he completely wrong in

:29:23. > :29:26.terms of fact in this debate, but terms of fact in this debate, but

:29:26. > :29:27.terms of fact in this debate, but he is completely wrong in the

:29:27. > :29:29.he is completely wrong in the he is completely wrong in the

:29:29. > :29:31.ramshackle description of the NPT ramshackle description of the NPT

:29:31. > :29:33.ramshackle description of the NPT efforts failing to deliver on what

:29:33. > :29:35.efforts failing to deliver on what efforts failing to deliver on what

:29:35. > :29:37.they call an important programme -- they call an important programme --

:29:37. > :29:38.they call an important programme -- NPD. If every investment is worth

:29:38. > :29:39.NPD. If every investment is worth NPD. If every investment is worth

:29:39. > :29:40.1400 jobs, how many job 1400 jobs, how many job

:29:40. > :29:41.1400 jobs, how many job opportunities over the past year

:29:41. > :29:42.opportunities over the past year opportunities over the past year

:29:42. > :29:43.opportunities over the past year have been lost because of delays to

:29:43. > :29:44.have been lost because of delays to have been lost because of delays to

:29:44. > :29:46.these projects at the very time these projects at the very time

:29:46. > :29:47.these projects at the very time these projects at the very time

:29:47. > :29:49.when these jobs are needed most? We when these jobs are needed most? We

:29:49. > :29:50.when these jobs are needed most? We when these jobs are needed most? We

:29:50. > :29:51.were told this new scheme would be were told this new scheme would be

:29:51. > :29:52.were told this new scheme would be Trans formation from the old PFI

:29:52. > :29:54.Trans formation from the old PFI Trans formation from the old PFI

:29:54. > :29:55.schemes. In some ways it hasn't schemes. In some ways it hasn't

:29:55. > :29:56.schemes. In some ways it hasn't schemes. In some ways it hasn't

:29:56. > :29:59.because at least on the old stick - because at least on the old stick -

:29:59. > :30:00.because at least on the old stick - - scheme projects were delivered.

:30:00. > :30:01.- scheme projects were delivered. - scheme projects were delivered.

:30:01. > :30:02.- scheme projects were delivered. Murdo Fraser got it right when he

:30:02. > :30:04.Murdo Fraser got it right when he Murdo Fraser got it right when he

:30:04. > :30:06.called it the non-delivery profit called it the non-delivery profit

:30:06. > :30:08.programme, because the reality programme, because the reality

:30:08. > :30:14.programme, because the reality years, although projects are being

:30:14. > :30:16.years, although projects are being years, although projects are being

:30:16. > :30:18.delayed... Order.A in 2012. The delayed... Order.A in 2012. The

:30:18. > :30:19.delayed... Order.A in 2012. The Public Private awards, the Scottish

:30:19. > :30:21.Public Private awards, the Scottish Public Private awards, the Scottish

:30:21. > :30:22.futures just won an award. I futures just won an award. I

:30:22. > :30:23.futures just won an award. I futures just won an award. I

:30:23. > :30:24.haven't seen the short list for it haven't seen the short list for it

:30:24. > :30:28.haven't seen the short list for it haven't seen the short list for it

:30:28. > :30:37.this year, but I imagine that will this year, but I imagine that will

:30:37. > :30:38.Now Westminster is in recess this Now Westminster is in recess this

:30:38. > :30:39.Now Westminster is in recess this week, so we have no Prime

:30:39. > :30:40.week, so we have no Prime Minister's Questions or MPs

:30:40. > :30:41.Minister's Questions or MPs Minister's Questions or MPs

:30:41. > :30:42.standing by on College Green, but standing by on College Green, but

:30:42. > :30:44.standing by on College Green, but we do have our correspondent Niall

:30:44. > :30:46.O'Gallacher. O'Gallacher.

:30:46. > :30:47.O'Gallacher. There was bad news for the

:30:47. > :30:49.There was bad news for the There was bad news for the

:30:49. > :30:50.Chancellor this morning when he Chancellor this morning when he

:30:50. > :30:52.Chancellor this morning when he found he was facing a worrying

:30:52. > :30:54.found he was facing a worrying found he was facing a worrying

:30:54. > :30:55.shortfall in the 4G auction, the shortfall in the 4G auction, the

:30:55. > :30:58.shortfall in the 4G auction, the mobile phone auction. Yes, there

:30:58. > :31:00.mobile phone auction. Yes, there mobile phone auction. Yes, there

:31:00. > :31:02.mobile phone auction. Yes, there were more than �1 billion less than

:31:02. > :31:03.were more than �1 billion less than were more than �1 billion less than

:31:03. > :31:04.expected. To the Treasury, these �1 expected. To the Treasury, these �1

:31:04. > :31:05.expected. To the Treasury, these �1 expected. To the Treasury, these �1

:31:05. > :31:06.billion or the start to add up to billion or the start to add up to

:31:06. > :31:07.billion or the start to add up to real money. George Osborne suggests

:31:07. > :31:09.real money. George Osborne suggests real money. George Osborne suggests

:31:09. > :31:11.that economically this is not a that economically this is not a

:31:11. > :31:11.that economically this is not a that economically this is not a

:31:11. > :31:13.problem and their goal is to reduce problem and their goal is to reduce

:31:13. > :31:14.problem and their goal is to reduce the annual gap between what the

:31:14. > :31:15.the annual gap between what the the annual gap between what the

:31:15. > :31:16.Government spends and what they can Government spends and what they can

:31:16. > :31:16.Government spends and what they can Government spends and what they can

:31:17. > :31:17.Government spends and what they can raise in tax and this may be A1 of

:31:17. > :31:18.raise in tax and this may be A1 of raise in tax and this may be A1 of

:31:18. > :31:23.disappointing but it does not disappointing but it does not

:31:23. > :31:24.disappointing but it does not factor in that much. Although they

:31:24. > :31:25.factor in that much. Although they factor in that much. Although they

:31:25. > :31:26.borrowed �120 billion last year borrowed �120 billion last year

:31:26. > :31:27.borrowed �120 billion last year borrowed �120 billion last year

:31:27. > :31:30.they say this figure is not very they say this figure is not very

:31:30. > :31:31.they say this figure is not very important. But the politics is more

:31:31. > :31:32.important. But the politics is more important. But the politics is more

:31:32. > :31:33.important. The figure they said important. The figure they said

:31:33. > :31:34.important. The figure they said they were raising last year was

:31:34. > :31:35.they were raising last year was they were raising last year was

:31:35. > :31:36.part of the figures that allowed part of the figures that allowed

:31:36. > :31:37.part of the figures that allowed the Chancellor to say that the

:31:37. > :31:38.the Chancellor to say that the the Chancellor to say that the

:31:38. > :31:38.the Chancellor to say that the deficit was falling and it would be

:31:38. > :31:39.deficit was falling and it would be deficit was falling and it would be

:31:39. > :31:41.deficit was falling and it would be deficit was falling and it would be

:31:41. > :31:42.low at the end of this year than it low at the end of this year than it

:31:42. > :31:46.low at the end of this year than it was last year. As things stand,

:31:46. > :31:47.was last year. As things stand, was last year. As things stand,

:31:47. > :31:47.this disappointing result with -- this disappointing result with --

:31:48. > :31:48.this disappointing result with -- along with falling tax returns

:31:48. > :31:49.along with falling tax returns along with falling tax returns

:31:49. > :31:50.along with falling tax returns means it is far from clear whether

:31:50. > :31:51.means it is far from clear whether means it is far from clear whether

:31:51. > :31:52.George Osborne will be in a George Osborne will be in a

:31:52. > :31:54.George Osborne will be in a George Osborne will be in a

:31:54. > :31:55.position to see that in his next position to see that in his next

:31:55. > :31:57.position to see that in his next Budget. Labour, of course, have

:31:58. > :31:58.Budget. Labour, of course, have Budget. Labour, of course, have

:31:58. > :32:00.leapt on this. The shadow chief leapt on this. The shadow chief

:32:00. > :32:01.leapt on this. The shadow chief secretary to the Treasury said it

:32:01. > :32:03.secretary to the Treasury said it secretary to the Treasury said it

:32:03. > :32:04.showed how foolish and short term showed how foolish and short term

:32:04. > :32:06.showed how foolish and short term the Chancellor was by making that

:32:06. > :32:07.the Chancellor was by making that the Chancellor was by making that

:32:07. > :32:08.statement in the autumn statement statement in the autumn statement

:32:08. > :32:09.statement in the autumn statement in December. Labour say that the

:32:09. > :32:10.in December. Labour say that the in December. Labour say that the

:32:10. > :32:11.in December. Labour say that the Chancellor has been at it and he

:32:11. > :32:11.Chancellor has been at it and he Chancellor has been at it and he

:32:12. > :32:12.Chancellor has been at it and he has been caught at it and he has

:32:12. > :32:17.has been caught at it and he has has been caught at it and he has

:32:17. > :32:20.has been caught at it and he has been trying to fix the figures but

:32:20. > :32:21.been trying to fix the figures but been trying to fix the figures but

:32:21. > :32:21.been trying to fix the figures but there is also the Office of Budget

:32:21. > :32:22.there is also the Office of Budget Responsibility whose stated purpose

:32:22. > :32:23.Responsibility whose stated purpose Responsibility whose stated purpose

:32:23. > :32:24.Responsibility whose stated purpose was to try and take the politics

:32:24. > :32:25.was to try and take the politics was to try and take the politics

:32:25. > :32:27.was to try and take the politics out of some of these figures. The

:32:27. > :32:28.out of some of these figures. The out of some of these figures. The

:32:28. > :32:30.Government are saying that the �3.5 Government are saying that the �3.5

:32:30. > :32:31.Government are saying that the �3.5 billion estimate came from them and

:32:31. > :32:32.billion estimate came from them and billion estimate came from them and

:32:32. > :32:33.billion estimate came from them and they have come back and said they

:32:33. > :32:36.they have come back and said they they have come back and said they

:32:36. > :32:37.just certified a figure that came just certified a figure that came

:32:37. > :32:38.just certified a figure that came from the Government. And their

:32:38. > :32:40.from the Government. And their from the Government. And their

:32:40. > :32:40.approval of that figure came with approval of that figure came with

:32:40. > :32:45.approval of that figure came with significant cabbie at some worries

:32:45. > :32:46.significant cabbie at some worries significant cabbie at some worries

:32:46. > :32:47.about how optimistic it was. There about how optimistic it was. There

:32:47. > :32:48.about how optimistic it was. There about how optimistic it was. There

:32:48. > :32:50.will be a major benefit to the will be a major benefit to the

:32:50. > :32:51.will be a major benefit to the economy from the 4G signal and

:32:51. > :32:52.economy from the 4G signal and economy from the 4G signal and

:32:52. > :32:53.Maria Miller has responsibility in Maria Miller has responsibility in

:32:53. > :32:54.Maria Miller has responsibility in Maria Miller has responsibility in

:32:54. > :32:56.that area and says it could be that area and says it could be

:32:56. > :32:56.that area and says it could be worth �50 billion to the Government.

:32:56. > :32:58.worth �50 billion to the Government. worth �50 billion to the Government.

:32:58. > :32:58.worth �50 billion to the Government. With the Budget just weeks away it

:32:58. > :33:00.With the Budget just weeks away it With the Budget just weeks away it

:33:00. > :33:02.With the Budget just weeks away it is hard to see how this will fall

:33:02. > :33:03.is hard to see how this will fall is hard to see how this will fall

:33:03. > :33:05.out. Finally now, it is interesting out. Finally now, it is interesting

:33:05. > :33:07.out. Finally now, it is interesting that even Tory MPs are criticising

:33:07. > :33:08.that even Tory MPs are criticising that even Tory MPs are criticising

:33:08. > :33:10.the Chancellor. John Wood -- John the Chancellor. John Wood -- John

:33:10. > :33:12.the Chancellor. John Wood -- John the Chancellor. John Wood -- John

:33:12. > :33:12.Redwood said the figure for the 4G Redwood said the figure for the 4G

:33:12. > :33:13.Redwood said the figure for the 4G auction was optimistic and this was

:33:13. > :33:15.auction was optimistic and this was auction was optimistic and this was

:33:15. > :33:17.auction was optimistic and this was a dent, but there are far bigger

:33:17. > :33:18.a dent, but there are far bigger a dent, but there are far bigger

:33:18. > :33:20.dents in public finances. He says dents in public finances. He says

:33:20. > :33:24.dents in public finances. He says that all of John Osborne's figures

:33:24. > :33:26.that all of John Osborne's figures are overly optimistic.

:33:26. > :33:26.are overly optimistic. are overly optimistic.

:33:26. > :33:28.There is criticism from within the There is criticism from within the

:33:28. > :33:32.There is criticism from within the There is criticism from within the

:33:32. > :33:33.party as well as we then more party as well as we then more

:33:33. > :33:34.party as well as we then more expected areas like Labour. If this

:33:34. > :33:35.expected areas like Labour. If this expected areas like Labour. If this

:33:35. > :33:38.does not mean that politics has does not mean that politics has

:33:38. > :33:40.does not mean that politics has stopped behind me even though the

:33:40. > :33:41.stopped behind me even though the stopped behind me even though the

:33:41. > :33:44.Westminster is on recess. The Westminster is on recess. The

:33:44. > :33:45.Westminster is on recess. The Chancellor will present a budget to

:33:45. > :33:46.Chancellor will present a budget to Chancellor will present a budget to

:33:46. > :33:47.parliament of one 20th March next parliament of one 20th March next

:33:47. > :33:48.parliament of one 20th March next parliament of one 20th March next

:33:48. > :33:50.month and he is working on that now. month and he is working on that now.

:33:50. > :33:51.month and he is working on that now. When this Coalition was established

:33:51. > :33:52.When this Coalition was established When this Coalition was established

:33:52. > :33:53.they made dealing with and the they made dealing with and the

:33:53. > :33:54.they made dealing with and the they made dealing with and the

:33:54. > :33:55.deficit a primary cause for the two deficit a primary cause for the two

:33:55. > :33:56.deficit a primary cause for the two parties coming together. If they

:33:56. > :33:57.parties coming together. If they parties coming together. If they

:33:58. > :33:59.parties coming together. If they are unable to say that when George

:33:59. > :33:59.are unable to say that when George are unable to say that when George

:33:59. > :34:00.Osborne stands up next month then Osborne stands up next month then

:34:01. > :34:02.Osborne stands up next month then Osborne stands up next month then

:34:02. > :34:07.it will be very hard times for them. it will be very hard times for them.

:34:07. > :34:08.Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

:34:08. > :34:10.Thank you very much. I'm joined once again by our

:34:10. > :34:11.I'm joined once again by our commentator, Gerry Hassan.

:34:11. > :34:12.commentator, Gerry Hassan. commentator, Gerry Hassan.

:34:12. > :34:13.It is interesting what happened It is interesting what happened

:34:13. > :34:14.It is interesting what happened It is interesting what happened

:34:14. > :34:15.this morning with at 4G auction. It this morning with at 4G auction. It

:34:15. > :34:17.this morning with at 4G auction. It this morning with at 4G auction. It

:34:17. > :34:18.is a bit short for a for the is a bit short for a for the

:34:18. > :34:20.is a bit short for a for the is a bit short for a for the

:34:20. > :34:21.Chancellor. I think it is. He was Chancellor. I think it is. He was

:34:21. > :34:22.Chancellor. I think it is. He was counting on this. His deficit-

:34:22. > :34:23.counting on this. His deficit- counting on this. His deficit-

:34:23. > :34:24.reduction plans are still on target reduction plans are still on target

:34:24. > :34:25.reduction plans are still on target reduction plans are still on target

:34:25. > :34:26.for a small reduction this year but for a small reduction this year but

:34:26. > :34:27.for a small reduction this year but for a small reduction this year but

:34:27. > :34:27.I think he was hoping that that I think he was hoping that that

:34:27. > :34:28.I think he was hoping that that I think he was hoping that that

:34:28. > :34:30.would give him a pot of money to would give him a pot of money to

:34:30. > :34:31.would give him a pot of money to would give him a pot of money to

:34:31. > :34:32.play with and it plays into the play with and it plays into the

:34:32. > :34:34.play with and it plays into the Scottish Parliament debate that we

:34:34. > :34:36.Scottish Parliament debate that we Scottish Parliament debate that we

:34:36. > :34:38.Scottish Parliament debate that we saw them which was hoping for some

:34:38. > :34:39.saw them which was hoping for some big investment infrastructure

:34:39. > :34:40.big investment infrastructure big investment infrastructure

:34:40. > :34:42.announcements. It all plays a part announcements. It all plays a part

:34:42. > :34:44.announcements. It all plays a part announcements. It all plays a part

:34:44. > :34:45.of the flat lining of the economy. of the flat lining of the economy.

:34:45. > :34:46.of the flat lining of the economy. The Coalition aspirations are not

:34:46. > :34:49.The Coalition aspirations are not The Coalition aspirations are not

:34:49. > :34:50.quite matching up time wise and quite matching up time wise and

:34:50. > :34:51.quite matching up time wise and figure why is. In the Autumn

:34:51. > :34:53.figure why is. In the Autumn figure why is. In the Autumn

:34:53. > :34:54.Statement Ed Balls look rather Statement Ed Balls look rather

:34:54. > :34:55.Statement Ed Balls look rather confused. The Shadow Chancellor was

:34:55. > :34:56.confused. The Shadow Chancellor was confused. The Shadow Chancellor was

:34:56. > :34:58.looking very confused when he was looking very confused when he was

:34:58. > :34:59.looking very confused when he was trying to work out the Government's

:34:59. > :35:01.trying to work out the Government's trying to work out the Government's

:35:01. > :35:03.spending plans. Of course the 4G spending plans. Of course the 4G

:35:03. > :35:05.spending plans. Of course the 4G money was the missing money. That

:35:05. > :35:06.money was the missing money. That money was the missing money. That

:35:06. > :35:07.is right. Mobile phone money has is right. Mobile phone money has

:35:07. > :35:09.is right. Mobile phone money has been a significant windfall for the

:35:09. > :35:10.been a significant windfall for the been a significant windfall for the

:35:10. > :35:13.last government where Gordon Brown last government where Gordon Brown

:35:13. > :35:14.last government where Gordon Brown gave at franchises and got �20

:35:14. > :35:15.gave at franchises and got �20 gave at franchises and got �20

:35:15. > :35:16.billion. These are significant pots billion. These are significant pots

:35:16. > :35:18.billion. These are significant pots of money that the government can

:35:18. > :35:18.of money that the government can of money that the government can

:35:18. > :35:20.of money that the government can play with and Canton to sort out

:35:20. > :35:21.play with and Canton to sort out play with and Canton to sort out

:35:21. > :35:22.major proposals. George Osborne has major proposals. George Osborne has

:35:22. > :35:25.major proposals. George Osborne has major proposals. George Osborne has

:35:25. > :35:26.not got the figures that he thought not got the figures that he thought

:35:26. > :35:27.not got the figures that he thought he would have. It is interesting

:35:27. > :35:28.he would have. It is interesting he would have. It is interesting

:35:28. > :35:30.that John Redwood will also came that John Redwood will also came

:35:30. > :35:31.that John Redwood will also came out to criticise these figures. Is

:35:31. > :35:32.out to criticise these figures. Is out to criticise these figures. Is

:35:32. > :35:33.out to criticise these figures. Is unusual for a senior Tory to do

:35:33. > :35:34.unusual for a senior Tory to do unusual for a senior Tory to do

:35:34. > :35:36.unusual for a senior Tory to do that. Yes and No, John Redwood has

:35:36. > :35:37.that. Yes and No, John Redwood has that. Yes and No, John Redwood has

:35:37. > :35:40.that. Yes and No, John Redwood has always played his own game and a

:35:41. > :35:41.always played his own game and a always played his own game and a

:35:41. > :35:43.always played his own game and a long-term game. He is an arch Euro-

:35:43. > :35:44.long-term game. He is an arch Euro- long-term game. He is an arch Euro-

:35:44. > :35:46.sceptic Thatcherite so he is no sceptic Thatcherite so he is no

:35:47. > :35:48.sceptic Thatcherite so he is no great friend of George Osborne.

:35:48. > :35:49.great friend of George Osborne. great friend of George Osborne.

:35:49. > :35:50.great friend of George Osborne. Thank you very much. Back with you

:35:50. > :35:51.Thank you very much. Back with you in a minute.

:35:51. > :35:52.in a minute. in a minute.

:35:52. > :35:53.MSPs have backed the SNP's flagship MSPs have backed the SNP's flagship

:35:53. > :35:54.MSPs have backed the SNP's flagship policy of not charging tuition fees

:35:54. > :35:59.policy of not charging tuition fees policy of not charging tuition fees

:35:59. > :36:00.to Scottish and EU students. While to Scottish and EU students. While

:36:00. > :36:01.to Scottish and EU students. While the Lib Dems voted with the

:36:01. > :36:02.the Lib Dems voted with the government, Labour abstained. They

:36:02. > :36:03.government, Labour abstained. They government, Labour abstained. They

:36:03. > :36:04.accused the SNP of closing down accused the SNP of closing down

:36:04. > :36:05.accused the SNP of closing down further debate on free tuition,

:36:05. > :36:05.further debate on free tuition, further debate on free tuition,

:36:05. > :36:06.after nationalists voted against an after nationalists voted against an

:36:06. > :36:07.independent commission on higher independent commission on higher

:36:07. > :36:14.independent commission on higher and further education. The Tories

:36:14. > :36:16.and further education. The Tories voted against it.

:36:16. > :36:17.voted against it. voted against it.

:36:17. > :36:19.voted against it. If you believe, as I do, that

:36:19. > :36:20.If you believe, as I do, that If you believe, as I do, that

:36:20. > :36:20.potential and ambition are spread potential and ambition are spread

:36:20. > :36:21.potential and ambition are spread equally throughout society then you

:36:21. > :36:22.equally throughout society then you equally throughout society then you

:36:22. > :36:24.should be as determined as we should be as determined as we

:36:24. > :36:25.should be as determined as we should be as determined as we

:36:25. > :36:26.should all be to ensure that the should all be to ensure that the

:36:26. > :36:28.opportunities represented by a opportunities represented by a

:36:28. > :36:31.opportunities represented by a education are available to war.

:36:31. > :36:32.education are available to war. education are available to war.

:36:32. > :36:33.education are available to war. Here is the principal. In order to

:36:33. > :36:34.Here is the principal. In order to Here is the principal. In order to

:36:34. > :36:35.Here is the principal. In order to do that it is abundantly clear that

:36:36. > :36:37.do that it is abundantly clear that do that it is abundantly clear that

:36:37. > :36:38.you must have access to education you must have access to education

:36:38. > :36:39.you must have access to education you must have access to education

:36:39. > :36:41.based on the ability to learn, not based on the ability to learn, not

:36:41. > :36:43.based on the ability to learn, not based on the ability to learn, not

:36:43. > :36:44.the ability to pay. It is as simple the ability to pay. It is as simple

:36:44. > :36:45.the ability to pay. It is as simple the ability to pay. It is as simple

:36:45. > :36:46.as that. Our history as a nation is as that. Our history as a nation is

:36:46. > :36:48.as that. Our history as a nation is based upon that principle and upon

:36:48. > :36:49.based upon that principle and upon based upon that principle and upon

:36:49. > :36:51.the issues I have outlined. the issues I have outlined.

:36:51. > :36:52.the issues I have outlined. Scotland is a country that has

:36:52. > :36:53.Scotland is a country that has Scotland is a country that has

:36:53. > :36:55.Scotland is a country that has education in its DNA. It is a

:36:55. > :36:56.education in its DNA. It is a education in its DNA. It is a

:36:56. > :36:57.learning nation. It has not always learning nation. It has not always

:36:57. > :36:58.learning nation. It has not always learning nation. It has not always

:36:58. > :36:59.lived up to that ambition but it lived up to that ambition but it

:36:59. > :37:00.lived up to that ambition but it has always known of it and

:37:00. > :37:01.has always known of it and has always known of it and

:37:01. > :37:02.recognise that he should try. This recognise that he should try. This

:37:02. > :37:03.recognise that he should try. This recognise that he should try. This

:37:03. > :37:05.Government is trying to live up to Government is trying to live up to

:37:05. > :37:06.Government is trying to live up to read. It recognises that access for

:37:06. > :37:08.read. It recognises that access for read. It recognises that access for

:37:08. > :37:09.has not yet been fully achieved. has not yet been fully achieved.

:37:10. > :37:11.has not yet been fully achieved. All barriers have to be dismantled,

:37:11. > :37:14.All barriers have to be dismantled, barriers of expectation, barriers

:37:14. > :37:15.barriers of expectation, barriers barriers of expectation, barriers

:37:16. > :37:16.barriers of expectation, barriers of lack of -- barriers of macabre -

:37:16. > :37:17.of lack of -- barriers of macabre - of lack of -- barriers of macabre -

:37:17. > :37:18.of lack of -- barriers of macabre - - barriers of a lack of ambition

:37:18. > :37:19.- barriers of a lack of ambition - barriers of a lack of ambition

:37:19. > :37:21.- barriers of a lack of ambition and barriers of lack of cost. We

:37:21. > :37:22.and barriers of lack of cost. We and barriers of lack of cost. We

:37:22. > :37:23.and barriers of lack of cost. We have made a promise that we will

:37:23. > :37:24.have made a promise that we will have made a promise that we will

:37:24. > :37:28.have made a promise that we will not introduce up front or back door

:37:28. > :37:28.not introduce up front or back door not introduce up front or back door

:37:28. > :37:29.not introduce up front or back door tuition fees. One that says to the

:37:29. > :37:30.tuition fees. One that says to the tuition fees. One that says to the

:37:30. > :37:32.people of Scotland is this. No people of Scotland is this. No

:37:32. > :37:33.people of Scotland is this. No matter where you live, no matter

:37:33. > :37:34.matter where you live, no matter matter where you live, no matter

:37:34. > :37:36.what the tradition is within your what the tradition is within your

:37:36. > :37:37.what the tradition is within your family or community, no matter what

:37:37. > :37:39.family or community, no matter what family or community, no matter what

:37:39. > :37:40.family or community, no matter what order of friends are aiming for, no

:37:40. > :37:41.order of friends are aiming for, no order of friends are aiming for, no

:37:41. > :37:42.matter what some might expect of matter what some might expect of

:37:42. > :37:43.matter what some might expect of matter what some might expect of

:37:43. > :37:44.you. If you have the ambition, if you. If you have the ambition, if

:37:45. > :37:46.you. If you have the ambition, if you have the ability, this

:37:46. > :37:47.you have the ability, this government will stand four-square

:37:47. > :37:48.government will stand four-square government will stand four-square

:37:48. > :37:49.government will stand four-square with you and give you both the

:37:49. > :37:50.with you and give you both the with you and give you both the

:37:50. > :37:52.opportunity and the support to be opportunity and the support to be

:37:52. > :37:54.opportunity and the support to be opportunity and the support to be

:37:54. > :37:55.all that you can be. We do all that you can be. We do

:37:55. > :37:57.all that you can be. We do recognise the benefits of free

:37:57. > :37:59.recognise the benefits of free recognise the benefits of free

:37:59. > :38:01.education. The problem is that for education. The problem is that for

:38:01. > :38:03.many education and significant many education and significant

:38:03. > :38:04.many education and significant parts of education are not actually

:38:04. > :38:05.parts of education are not actually parts of education are not actually

:38:05. > :38:06.free. Any education, no matter how free. Any education, no matter how

:38:06. > :38:08.free. Any education, no matter how free. Any education, no matter how

:38:08. > :38:09.you describe it, does come at a you describe it, does come at a

:38:09. > :38:10.you describe it, does come at a you describe it, does come at a

:38:10. > :38:12.cost. The issue is who pays for it cost. The issue is who pays for it

:38:12. > :38:15.cost. The issue is who pays for it cost. The issue is who pays for it

:38:15. > :38:18.and how we pay for it. I suspect and how we pay for it. I suspect

:38:18. > :38:19.and how we pay for it. I suspect and how we pay for it. I suspect

:38:19. > :38:20.that this side of the referendum it that this side of the referendum it

:38:20. > :38:22.that this side of the referendum it will be impossible to have any

:38:22. > :38:24.will be impossible to have any sensible debate about confronting

:38:24. > :38:26.sensible debate about confronting sensible debate about confronting

:38:26. > :38:27.the wider challenges that face the wider challenges that face

:38:27. > :38:28.the wider challenges that face Scotland. Instead we will be

:38:28. > :38:29.Scotland. Instead we will be Scotland. Instead we will be

:38:29. > :38:32.presented by this Government with a presented by this Government with a

:38:32. > :38:33.presented by this Government with a list of promises and and verifiable

:38:33. > :38:35.list of promises and and verifiable list of promises and and verifiable

:38:35. > :38:36.assertions, about a land of milk assertions, about a land of milk

:38:36. > :38:38.assertions, about a land of milk assertions, about a land of milk

:38:38. > :38:46.and honey if only we listened to and honey if only we listened to

:38:46. > :38:48.Alex Salmond. This administration Alex Salmond. This administration

:38:48. > :38:50.Alex Salmond. This administration has been promising popular policies.

:38:50. > :38:51.has been promising popular policies. has been promising popular policies.

:38:51. > :38:53.They promised a to dumb student They promised a to dumb student

:38:53. > :38:54.They promised a to dumb student debt and Scotland voted for that,

:38:54. > :38:56.debt and Scotland voted for that, debt and Scotland voted for that,

:38:56. > :38:57.only for the promise, rather than only for the promise, rather than

:38:57. > :38:59.only for the promise, rather than only for the promise, rather than

:38:59. > :39:01.the debt to be dumped. So we turn the debt to be dumped. So we turn

:39:01. > :39:02.the debt to be dumped. So we turn to free university tuition. The

:39:02. > :39:03.to free university tuition. The to free university tuition. The

:39:04. > :39:06.to free university tuition. The rocks and will meld with the sun

:39:06. > :39:07.rocks and will meld with the sun rocks and will meld with the sun

:39:07. > :39:09.before the -- this is abandon before the -- this is abandon

:39:09. > :39:10.apparently, except for part-time apparently, except for part-time

:39:10. > :39:11.students from low-income students from low-income

:39:11. > :39:13.students from low-income backgrounds, they have to pay their

:39:13. > :39:15.backgrounds, they have to pay their backgrounds, they have to pay their

:39:15. > :39:16.own tuition fees. Let the rocks own tuition fees. Let the rocks

:39:16. > :39:17.melt. Postgraduate students also melt. Postgraduate students also

:39:17. > :39:18.melt. Postgraduate students also melt. Postgraduate students also

:39:18. > :39:19.have to pay their own fees, even have to pay their own fees, even

:39:19. > :39:21.have to pay their own fees, even though this can be an essential

:39:21. > :39:22.though this can be an essential though this can be an essential

:39:22. > :39:25.part of the academic process. So, part of the academic process. So,

:39:25. > :39:25.part of the academic process. So, part of the academic process. So,

:39:25. > :39:26.why the difference for them? As I why the difference for them? As I

:39:26. > :39:28.why the difference for them? As I welcome this opportunity to set out

:39:28. > :39:29.welcome this opportunity to set out welcome this opportunity to set out

:39:29. > :39:31.welcome this opportunity to set out why in the autumn of 2010 we made

:39:31. > :39:32.why in the autumn of 2010 we made why in the autumn of 2010 we made

:39:32. > :39:33.our commitment to a graduate our commitment to a graduate

:39:33. > :39:34.our commitment to a graduate contribution and wind now two-and-

:39:34. > :39:37.contribution and wind now two-and- contribution and wind now two-and-

:39:37. > :39:39.a-half years on, we remain more a-half years on, we remain more

:39:39. > :39:41.a-half years on, we remain more convinced than a key question as

:39:41. > :39:41.convinced than a key question as convinced than a key question as

:39:41. > :39:43.convinced than a key question as you Henry rightly said, is who pays

:39:43. > :39:44.you Henry rightly said, is who pays you Henry rightly said, is who pays

:39:44. > :39:46.you Henry rightly said, is who pays for it? Clearly that is a matter of

:39:46. > :39:48.for it? Clearly that is a matter of political choices. The Scottish

:39:48. > :39:49.political choices. The Scottish political choices. The Scottish

:39:49. > :39:50.government has made its choice government has made its choice

:39:50. > :39:52.government has made its choice plane. It believes that the state

:39:52. > :39:53.plane. It believes that the state plane. It believes that the state

:39:53. > :39:54.plane. It believes that the state should pay for the tuition of the

:39:54. > :39:56.should pay for the tuition of the should pay for the tuition of the

:39:56. > :39:58.should pay for the tuition of the students for as long as they are

:39:58. > :39:59.students for as long as they are students for as long as they are

:39:59. > :40:00.not a domiciled Scots-born non-UK not a domiciled Scots-born non-UK

:40:00. > :40:01.not a domiciled Scots-born non-UK not a domiciled Scots-born non-UK

:40:01. > :40:02.EU students. They argue this on the EU students. They argue this on the

:40:02. > :40:06.EU students. They argue this on the basis that they believe that higher

:40:06. > :40:06.basis that they believe that higher basis that they believe that higher

:40:06. > :40:07.education is someone's right and education is someone's right and

:40:07. > :40:08.education is someone's right and education is someone's right and

:40:08. > :40:10.that the tax payer has therefore an that the tax payer has therefore an

:40:10. > :40:12.that the tax payer has therefore an that the tax payer has therefore an

:40:12. > :40:14.obligation to pay for it. That is a obligation to pay for it. That is a

:40:14. > :40:14.obligation to pay for it. That is a rational argument. It is one that

:40:14. > :40:15.rational argument. It is one that rational argument. It is one that

:40:15. > :40:17.rational argument. It is one that is no doubt very attractive in an

:40:17. > :40:19.is no doubt very attractive in an is no doubt very attractive in an

:40:19. > :40:20.is no doubt very attractive in an ideal world. But, it is not the

:40:20. > :40:23.ideal world. But, it is not the ideal world. But, it is not the

:40:23. > :40:24.reality. There is no endless state reality. There is no endless state

:40:24. > :40:26.reality. There is no endless state pot for higher education without

:40:26. > :40:28.pot for higher education without significant cost. That was

:40:28. > :40:30.significant cost. That was significant cost. That was

:40:30. > :40:31.yesterday's debate on tuition fees at Holyrood.

:40:31. > :40:32.at Holyrood. at Holyrood.

:40:32. > :40:33.at Holyrood. I'm joined for a final time by our

:40:33. > :40:34.I'm joined for a final time by our political commentator for the

:40:34. > :40:35.political commentator for the afternoon, Gerry Hassan. There

:40:35. > :40:36.afternoon, Gerry Hassan. There afternoon, Gerry Hassan. There

:40:36. > :40:37.afternoon, Gerry Hassan. There seems to be no end to the debate

:40:37. > :40:37.seems to be no end to the debate seems to be no end to the debate

:40:37. > :40:39.about the payment of tuition fees about the payment of tuition fees

:40:39. > :40:40.about the payment of tuition fees and whether people should pay for

:40:40. > :40:41.and whether people should pay for and whether people should pay for

:40:41. > :40:43.and whether people should pay for higher education. At the end of the

:40:43. > :40:44.higher education. At the end of the higher education. At the end of the

:40:44. > :40:46.higher education. At the end of the day I suppose it comes to what Liz

:40:46. > :40:47.day I suppose it comes to what Liz day I suppose it comes to what Liz

:40:47. > :40:48.Smith was saying, how sustainable Smith was saying, how sustainable

:40:48. > :40:50.Smith was saying, how sustainable Smith was saying, how sustainable

:40:50. > :40:50.this policy is. As she said, it is this policy is. As she said, it is

:40:51. > :40:52.this policy is. As she said, it is not actually free. There is always

:40:52. > :40:57.not actually free. There is always not actually free. There is always

:40:57. > :40:59.someone who is paying. This debate someone who is paying. This debate

:40:59. > :41:00.someone who is paying. This debate someone who is paying. This debate

:41:00. > :41:01.could be a totem about where part could be a totem about where part

:41:01. > :41:02.could be a totem about where part of Scotland sees itself. Does it

:41:02. > :41:03.of Scotland sees itself. Does it of Scotland sees itself. Does it

:41:03. > :41:04.see itself as centre-left and see itself as centre-left and

:41:04. > :41:06.egalitarian? Ever since tuition egalitarian? Ever since tuition

:41:06. > :41:07.egalitarian? Ever since tuition egalitarian? Ever since tuition

:41:07. > :41:08.fees were first brought in by the fees were first brought in by the

:41:08. > :41:10.fees were first brought in by the Tony Blair government, this was

:41:10. > :41:11.Tony Blair government, this was Tony Blair government, this was

:41:11. > :41:12.Tony Blair government, this was always going to cost -- caused huge

:41:12. > :41:13.always going to cost -- caused huge always going to cost -- caused huge

:41:13. > :41:16.tensions and pressures on the tensions and pressures on the

:41:16. > :41:17.Scottish Higher education system Scottish Higher education system

:41:17. > :41:18.Scottish Higher education system Scottish Higher education system

:41:18. > :41:19.that will, I guess, in the long run that will, I guess, in the long run

:41:19. > :41:21.that will, I guess, in the long run be either unsustainable or have

:41:21. > :41:22.be either unsustainable or have be either unsustainable or have

:41:22. > :41:23.huge consequences on the standard huge consequences on the standard

:41:23. > :41:23.huge consequences on the standard of higher education. But a policy

:41:24. > :41:26.of higher education. But a policy of higher education. But a policy

:41:26. > :41:28.that is very popular with voters, that is very popular with voters,

:41:28. > :41:30.especially middle-class voters who especially middle-class voters who

:41:30. > :41:31.especially middle-class voters who send their children to university.

:41:31. > :41:31.send their children to university. send their children to university.

:41:31. > :41:32.send their children to university. I'm not trying to do an argument

:41:33. > :41:33.I'm not trying to do an argument I'm not trying to do an argument

:41:33. > :41:37.I'm not trying to do an argument for free tuition fees but in a

:41:37. > :41:39.for free tuition fees but in a for free tuition fees but in a

:41:39. > :41:40.limited budget we have consequences limited budget we have consequences

:41:40. > :41:41.and those consequences affect and those consequences affect

:41:42. > :41:42.and those consequences affect everyone. There are issues about

:41:42. > :41:44.everyone. There are issues about everyone. There are issues about

:41:44. > :41:45.everyone. There are issues about who you support. As long as England

:41:45. > :41:46.who you support. As long as England who you support. As long as England

:41:46. > :41:47.who you support. As long as England has tuition fees and there is talk

:41:47. > :41:50.has tuition fees and there is talk has tuition fees and there is talk

:41:50. > :41:51.has tuition fees and there is talk about having -- trying to lift the

:41:51. > :41:52.about having -- trying to lift the about having -- trying to lift the

:41:52. > :41:53.ceiling for groups like English ceiling for groups like English

:41:53. > :41:55.ceiling for groups like English students coming here. There are

:41:55. > :41:56.students coming here. There are still huge consequences and

:41:56. > :41:57.still huge consequences and still huge consequences and

:41:57. > :41:58.pressures that may eventually have pressures that may eventually have

:41:58. > :41:59.pressures that may eventually have pressures that may eventually have

:41:59. > :42:00.to be dealt with. Whichever way you to be dealt with. Whichever way you

:42:00. > :42:01.to be dealt with. Whichever way you to be dealt with. Whichever way you

:42:01. > :42:01.go there may be costs and there go there may be costs and there

:42:01. > :42:02.go there may be costs and there go there may be costs and there

:42:02. > :42:04.go there may be costs and there will be people you have to pay in a

:42:04. > :42:05.will be people you have to pay in a will be people you have to pay in a

:42:05. > :42:07.variety of ways, both financially variety of ways, both financially

:42:07. > :42:09.variety of ways, both financially or maybe in the investment in

:42:09. > :42:10.or maybe in the investment in further education, higher education.

:42:10. > :42:12.further education, higher education. further education, higher education.

:42:12. > :42:13.further education, higher education. Just before we go, David Cameron is

:42:13. > :42:14.Just before we go, David Cameron is Just before we go, David Cameron is

:42:14. > :42:15.Just before we go, David Cameron is in a big trade delegation to in the

:42:15. > :42:16.in a big trade delegation to in the in a big trade delegation to in the

:42:16. > :42:17.in a big trade delegation to in the at the moment. He has been laying

:42:17. > :42:18.at the moment. He has been laying at the moment. He has been laying

:42:18. > :42:20.at the moment. He has been laying the wreath at a scene of a British

:42:20. > :42:22.the wreath at a scene of a British the wreath at a scene of a British

:42:22. > :42:23.colonial massacre 100 years ago. It colonial massacre 100 years ago. It

:42:23. > :42:24.colonial massacre 100 years ago. It is very interesting they he is

:42:24. > :42:24.is very interesting they he is is very interesting they he is

:42:24. > :42:25.is very interesting they he is trying to make these steps have to

:42:25. > :42:26.trying to make these steps have to trying to make these steps have to

:42:26. > :42:28.trying to make these steps have to queue in the as a major trading

:42:28. > :42:29.queue in the as a major trading queue in the as a major trading

:42:29. > :42:31.queue in the as a major trading partner. He has also trying to, a

:42:31. > :42:31.partner. He has also trying to, a partner. He has also trying to, a

:42:31. > :42:32.little bit successfully I thing, little bit successfully I thing,

:42:32. > :42:34.little bit successfully I thing, trying to talk many different

:42:34. > :42:34.trying to talk many different trying to talk many different

:42:34. > :42:36.languages. He is telling India that languages. He is telling India that

:42:36. > :42:36.languages. He is telling India that languages. He is telling India that

:42:36. > :42:38.we are open for business, come to we are open for business, come to

:42:38. > :42:39.we are open for business, come to our universities and study and work

:42:39. > :42:40.our universities and study and work our universities and study and work

:42:40. > :42:41.our universities and study and work here. But he is also talking a

:42:41. > :42:42.here. But he is also talking a here. But he is also talking a

:42:42. > :42:46.language of shutting down bogus language of shutting down bogus

:42:46. > :42:47.language of shutting down bogus colleges and being tough on

:42:47. > :42:48.colleges and being tough on colleges and being tough on

:42:48. > :42:49.immigration. People can join both immigration. People can join both

:42:49. > :42:51.immigration. People can join both those messages together and ask how

:42:51. > :42:51.those messages together and ask how those messages together and ask how

:42:52. > :42:52.those messages together and ask how those messages together and ask how

:42:52. > :42:53.you can do that but is is what so - you can do that but is is what so -

:42:54. > :42:56.you can do that but is is what so - - but it is what politicians

:42:56. > :42:57.- but it is what politicians - but it is what politicians

:42:57. > :42:59.- but it is what politicians sometimes have to do. He is looking

:42:59. > :43:00.sometimes have to do. He is looking sometimes have to do. He is looking

:43:00. > :43:01.sometimes have to do. He is looking at the winds of Britain's in --

:43:01. > :43:03.at the winds of Britain's in -- at the winds of Britain's in --

:43:03. > :43:03.imperial role in India which is imperial role in India which is

:43:03. > :43:05.imperial role in India which is something that politicians have to

:43:05. > :43:06.something that politicians have to something that politicians have to

:43:06. > :43:08.something that politicians have to do in this country. I think he does

:43:08. > :43:09.do in this country. I think he does do in this country. I think he does

:43:09. > :43:11.do in this country. I think he does it with some skill but it is a

:43:11. > :43:13.it with some skill but it is a it with some skill but it is a

:43:13. > :43:15.difficult one. Very briefly, India difficult one. Very briefly, India

:43:15. > :43:16.difficult one. Very briefly, India difficult one. Very briefly, India

:43:16. > :43:17.has a choice. Yes, of course. They has a choice. Yes, of course. They

:43:17. > :43:18.has a choice. Yes, of course. They have this issue of whether they

:43:18. > :43:19.have this issue of whether they have this issue of whether they

:43:19. > :43:20.will buy British fighter planes or will buy British fighter planes or

:43:20. > :43:21.will buy British fighter planes or will buy British fighter planes or

:43:21. > :43:22.if there is a huge French order if there is a huge French order

:43:22. > :43:23.if there is a huge French order that is delayed and David Cameron

:43:23. > :43:25.that is delayed and David Cameron that is delayed and David Cameron

:43:26. > :43:26.that is delayed and David Cameron is trying to do that. That is what

:43:26. > :43:27.is trying to do that. That is what is trying to do that. That is what

:43:27. > :43:28.British prime ministers do, often British prime ministers do, often

:43:28. > :43:29.British prime ministers do, often British prime ministers do, often

:43:29. > :43:33.try and sell arms to people in try and sell arms to people in

:43:33. > :43:34.try and sell arms to people in particular! Thank you very much.

:43:34. > :43:34.particular! Thank you very much. particular! Thank you very much.

:43:35. > :43:35.That's it from us this afternoon. That's it from us this afternoon.

:43:36. > :43:36.That's it from us this afternoon. That's it from us this afternoon.

:43:36. > :43:37.We're back at the same time next We're back at the same time next

:43:37. > :43:38.We're back at the same time next We're back at the same time next