:00:20. > :00:22.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up on the
:00:23. > :00:26.programme. New legislation to introduce same
:00:27. > :00:31.sex marriage is expected to pass its first parliamentary hurdle.
:00:32. > :00:36.Labour argue Scotland must remain in the union to guarantee big defence
:00:37. > :00:44.contracts. The SNP disagree. That's our live debate in the chamber.
:00:45. > :00:48.And here at Westminster, they are debating the mix of the British
:00:49. > :00:53.Army. Should there be fewer regular soldiers and more reservists?
:00:54. > :00:58.Plans to legislate for same-sex marriage reach a milestone when MSPs
:00:59. > :01:02.vote on the issue for the first time. Holyrood is to debate the
:01:03. > :01:06.general principles of controversial proposals to allow same-sex couples
:01:07. > :01:09.to wed. I'm joined now by our political commentator for the
:01:10. > :01:16.afternoon, Angus Macleod the Scottish editor of The Times. Good
:01:17. > :01:21.afternoon. First of all, we have had a lot of debate about these
:01:22. > :01:31.proposals. This is stage one of the actual bill, what is going to happen
:01:32. > :01:38.here? It is going to be a very late vote tonight, I think it a clock is
:01:39. > :01:50.a project to time. It is going to pass, I think. -- eight o'clock. But
:01:51. > :01:54.there will be some interest around it, in the number of people who vote
:01:55. > :01:59.against it. This is happening against a background of deep anxiety
:02:00. > :02:04.from church groups and other groups in Scotland. It is as much about
:02:05. > :02:19.what happens when the legislation is on the statute books, as what is in
:02:20. > :02:25.the statute itself. That will only become obvious as it becomes law and
:02:26. > :02:32.we see people getting married under the bill. The opposition can almost
:02:33. > :02:37.be split into two camps. Those who are not necessarily opposed to the
:02:38. > :02:44.general principle, but our concerned with protecting the churches, and
:02:45. > :02:48.those who are against the general principle? There is conflicting
:02:49. > :02:56.evidence on this? Polls in the past have shown that there are some
:02:57. > :03:01.people, a sizeable number, who are against the whole idea. Other polls
:03:02. > :03:07.have shown a distinct majority for the proposal. I do think there is a
:03:08. > :03:11.genuine worry on the part of the churches about what happens after
:03:12. > :03:15.the bill becomes law and whether they will be perhaps forced into
:03:16. > :03:22.doing something, even though the bill seeks to protect them, that
:03:23. > :03:27.they will be forced into the courts to defend themselves and to get them
:03:28. > :03:33.to agree to a same-sex marriage ceremony when they do not want to.
:03:34. > :03:43.It is a genuine anxiety. We will be speaking to MSPs about that. It has
:03:44. > :03:48.been a week of economic papers. We had a report from the Institute of
:03:49. > :04:00.financial studies -- Institute for Fiscal Studies. Yes, it produced
:04:01. > :04:05.their analysis of the economy, the finances of an independent Scotland.
:04:06. > :04:10.It was not particularly good news for the Scottish Government. But
:04:11. > :04:13.then the Scottish Government yesterday produced their blueprint
:04:14. > :04:18.for the economic opportunity which they say an independent Scotland
:04:19. > :04:26.would have. Yes, it was aspirational, but what voters and
:04:27. > :04:33.the people who are about to decide on independence will make of it all
:04:34. > :04:38.remains to be seen. I think, at the moment, some of the headlines that
:04:39. > :04:45.were generated on the back of the IFS report will not have done the
:04:46. > :04:49.Scottish Government any favours at all. Thank you for that.
:04:50. > :04:54.Let's go straight to Holyrood now for some political reaction. We're
:04:55. > :04:58.joined by Marco Biagi from the SNP, Jim Hume of the Scottish Liberal
:04:59. > :05:00.Democrats and from Scottish Labour, Jenny Marra.
:05:01. > :05:06.Good afternoon. Thank you for joining me. It is going to be a late
:05:07. > :05:11.setting for all of you. -- late sitting. Marco Biagi, you support
:05:12. > :05:21.this legislation, but some of your colleagues do not. You were saying
:05:22. > :05:27.on the radio this morning that concerns about churches being forced
:05:28. > :05:35.into carrying out same-sex marriages are bit of a smoke screen? I think
:05:36. > :05:39.some people are doing that, the case is very strong, the protection is
:05:40. > :05:45.there. Laws like this have been passed around Europe and none of
:05:46. > :05:53.these countries have forced churches to perform same-sex marriages. The
:05:54. > :05:57.European Convention on human rights gives very strong protection to any
:05:58. > :06:10.church against any challenge like this. You were speaking on the radio
:06:11. > :06:20.with Jon Mason. What is the mood in the SNP now about these proposals?
:06:21. > :06:28.It is a free vote. Is there some are -- agitation about this? It is a
:06:29. > :06:32.free vote, allowing everyone to express their own opinion. Everyone
:06:33. > :06:37.is in good spirits and maintaining friendly relations. We are party
:06:38. > :06:43.that has always been able to agree to disagree. We have had debates in
:06:44. > :06:50.public that have shown we are a party that can deal with vibrant
:06:51. > :06:58.debate. Jim Hume, as I mentioned, it is a free vote. Do you feel the
:06:59. > :07:03.people of Scotland are with you? You have quoted that 75% of people want
:07:04. > :07:10.this legislation, is that an accurate figure? I think so. We have
:07:11. > :07:21.seen a growth in support. In 2002, it was something like 40% in
:07:22. > :07:29.favour. That grew. The committee has taken evidence from about 1300
:07:30. > :07:39.people from all over and support was about 75%. Many countries in Europe
:07:40. > :07:49.have already legislated on this. Jenny Marra, I sense it is the same
:07:50. > :07:55.argument in labour at the moment. I take it you are in favour of it? Do
:07:56. > :08:04.you think the guarantees and safeguards iPlayer for the
:08:05. > :08:09.churches? -- are there? I am confident. But a lot of this detail
:08:10. > :08:20.will be aren't out at stage two. We are at a tipping point. -- ironed
:08:21. > :08:26.out. I think it came when Tony Blair put the civil partnership act
:08:27. > :08:31.through Westminster and that was ahead of the curve in terms of
:08:32. > :08:36.social attitudes. What we are doing today completes the jigsaw for equal
:08:37. > :08:42.rights. Do you not show some concerns that if this is past, some
:08:43. > :08:50.groups may take churches to court? Is any legislation is safe from
:08:51. > :08:55.being reviewed by human rights legislation? Of course not, but
:08:56. > :09:01.legislators cannot view of the courts. We have to do the right
:09:02. > :09:09.thing. That is a precious thing about being a democratic evidence.
:09:10. > :09:16.Even if there is a challenge, that is no reason for us not to do the
:09:17. > :09:24.right thing. Lots have been discussed in Parliament this week.
:09:25. > :09:32.Marco Biagi, we had the IFS report on Monday, not such a rosy picture
:09:33. > :09:39.for independence in that? The IFS report attempted to Fortune tell if
:09:40. > :09:45.nothing changed after independence, if we continued with businesses as
:09:46. > :09:50.usual. The Scottish Government set out the type of action we would want
:09:51. > :09:56.to take if we had independence. A whole range of areas, revitalising
:09:57. > :10:04.manufacturer, boosting small businesses, targeting our
:10:05. > :10:10.strengths. If we had the economic powers to do all those things, it
:10:11. > :10:16.would show that the IFS model would be out of date and we would have a
:10:17. > :10:20.very prosperous future indeed. But some of your critics have said, the
:10:21. > :10:27.Scottish Government's report was all about motherhood and apple pie.
:10:28. > :10:32.Everybody is in favour of this, that and the other, but the UK Government
:10:33. > :10:37.has been pursuing those policies already. You were setting out a list
:10:38. > :10:40.of aspirations that any government might want to pursue. The UK
:10:41. > :10:46.Government has consistently adopted a one size fits all policy. When you
:10:47. > :10:55.look at the abysses that has been put on certain areas -- emphasis
:10:56. > :11:02.that has been put on certain areas, the charger system set up by
:11:03. > :11:13.Westminster which is the most inefficient in Europe. -- childcare
:11:14. > :11:21.system. Jim Hume, if the Scottish Government had their way, a small
:11:22. > :11:26.targeted economy moving rapidly to create thousands of jobs. A very
:11:27. > :11:32.envious corporate tax regime. What is there to complain about? The
:11:33. > :11:42.figures do not really add up at the moment. 10% of the turnover of this
:11:43. > :11:46.government would come out of the economy straightaway. A totally
:11:47. > :11:51.independent body has come out and said they would have to be a
:11:52. > :12:00.permanent 9% rise in tax in Scotland to match the books. Or 6% reduction
:12:01. > :12:10.in spending. If you add 6% on 210%, you are talking about a 16% cut in
:12:11. > :12:24.public spending at least. -- on to 10%. Jenny Marra, the IFS study,
:12:25. > :12:29.Marco Biagi was saying there was a bit of fortune-telling going on, who
:12:30. > :12:36.knows if their figures are accurate? Why take their figures? The
:12:37. > :12:40.Institute of this cool studies is an independent body that knows what
:12:41. > :12:57.they are talking about. The blue Alex Salmond's case for independence
:12:58. > :13:01.out of the water. -- the blew. They will have to answer some big
:13:02. > :13:10.questions in this White Paper next week. We will have to leave it
:13:11. > :13:15.there. Thank you. Let's pick up with Angus Macleod
:13:16. > :13:22.again. Marco Biagi was talking about the
:13:23. > :13:29.IFS paper being fortune-telling, can you trust their figures? I am
:13:30. > :13:33.tempted to say that when it comes to fortune-telling, who is better than
:13:34. > :13:43.the Scottish Government? But I will let that pass. This is the gold
:13:44. > :13:56.standard of think tanks as far as economic 's -- the economy is
:13:57. > :14:03.concerned. That paper was very solidly based on facts and figures.
:14:04. > :14:17.Governments all over Europe take the IFS incredibly seriously. I think
:14:18. > :14:22.probably Alex Salmond does as well. He did not actually directly answer
:14:23. > :14:30.the IFS analysis, he let it hang there. I think that tells its own
:14:31. > :14:33.story. Let's recap on the same-sex marriage discussion. It is quite
:14:34. > :14:48.interesting that discussions going on in the parties. It is a free
:14:49. > :14:53.vote. Because they are the governing party, the spotlight will probably
:14:54. > :15:04.fall on the number of Scottish National party MSP 's who fought
:15:05. > :15:10.against this. It is inevitable that will happen. In terms of the other
:15:11. > :15:18.parties, obviously, there are a number of MPs who will vote against
:15:19. > :15:31.this. A handful, F that, according to the Labour Party, a lot more for
:15:32. > :15:35.the Conservatives. People will start looking at which party people belong
:15:36. > :15:42.to you voted against it. Let us turn our attention to current
:15:43. > :15:46.business in the chamber. It is Labour debating time and they are
:15:47. > :15:49.looking at the future of defence in Scotland. They say the best way to
:15:50. > :15:53.secure defence contracts is to stay in the Union, but the SNP say
:15:54. > :16:01.independence will offer new opportunities. In the quiet moments
:16:02. > :16:12.today, we may feel some echoes from the past. The shipyards in Govan and
:16:13. > :16:16.Rosyth are a source of great plague. Lovers with a sense of Scottish
:16:17. > :16:22.history and an interest in the industrial heritage of the country
:16:23. > :16:29.want to make sure we maintain skilled and highly paid jobs for our
:16:30. > :16:40.workers. I appreciate the opportunity. I wonder if you think
:16:41. > :17:00.that democracy is an urgent thing for everyone in the world? The
:17:01. > :17:12.member for the constituency who has effectively blackmailed the workers
:17:13. > :17:14.into voting for something. He is absolutely committed to his
:17:15. > :17:21.constituents, including the ship yard workers. Perhaps his party
:17:22. > :17:35.should be more honest about the prospectus. There are iconic images
:17:36. > :17:47.of Glasgow, of these floating marvels been instructed and lodged.
:17:48. > :17:51.You only need to ask and hear about from two very special Scots people,
:17:52. > :17:57.Sir Alex Ferguson and Billy Connolly, about the impact of the
:17:58. > :18:02.shipyards. It is a short source of great pride to all others. Sadly,
:18:03. > :18:07.our competitors in other countries did not simply sit back and admire
:18:08. > :18:12.what we did, the two started building these amazing ships. The
:18:13. > :18:19.invested in these industries to take it on at our own game. In the early
:18:20. > :18:24.1900, the Clyde built one fifth of the world ships. At its peak,
:18:25. > :18:30.shipbuilding and the area employed 100,000 people. The days of
:18:31. > :18:36.thousands of young men leaving school and walking into an
:18:37. > :18:40.apprenticeship at the shipyard have gone. But this is still a key
:18:41. > :18:50.industry in Scotland. It not only provides thousands of jobs. The
:18:51. > :18:54.decision to go ahead with the building of the aircraft carriers
:18:55. > :19:06.may be viewed as controversial by some. It is a lifeline for those
:19:07. > :19:14.workers and it is a project with NAND, and sadly the end it is fast
:19:15. > :19:18.coming up. For the 800 workers affected, they knew this day would
:19:19. > :19:27.come, but this makes it no less palatable. The Deputy first Minister
:19:28. > :19:31.said much I would agree with when she responded to a question about
:19:32. > :19:36.this last year. We are very sad for the workers in Portsmouth. It is
:19:37. > :19:41.beyond argument that there has been a steady decline in our shipbuilding
:19:42. > :19:50.industry which should worry all others. Major concern about our
:19:51. > :19:55.reliance on naval contracts comes from the potential gap in the order
:19:56. > :20:04.books. In the context of that last point she made, does she believe
:20:05. > :20:15.that the promises to make the peace dividend in Scotland or that Trident
:20:16. > :20:18.is a missed opportunity. I am not totally clear the point you are
:20:19. > :20:24.making. We have to recognise that the government has done nothing
:20:25. > :20:28.about this. This was spoken about only when the cases in the arch,
:20:29. > :20:34.rather than doing anything in the period beforehand. Nicola Sturgeon
:20:35. > :20:39.has my full support and exporting any diversification to help
:20:40. > :20:48.safeguard the future of shipbuilding. Perhaps we could of
:20:49. > :20:54.done more. We all knew this day would come. Maybe we should have
:20:55. > :20:59.come together across parties and try to market a long-term future for the
:21:00. > :21:07.shipbuilding industry. But it is not too late. We are ready to engage in
:21:08. > :21:14.the debate. Help manage any change and exploit any opportunities of the
:21:15. > :21:18.world-class skills of our workers in the shipbuilding and defence
:21:19. > :21:22.industries. If other countries can compete, letters understand what we
:21:23. > :21:29.have to do as well. Letters get round the table with the United
:21:30. > :21:36.Kingdom Government - management and workers and unions -, and to do
:21:37. > :21:41.that, they will have the whole support of the Labour Party in
:21:42. > :21:45.Scotland. But no change will happen overnight. A diversification plan
:21:46. > :21:52.will take many years. Scotland will not become world beaters in
:21:53. > :21:56.shipbuilding by Will alone or because the Scottish National party
:21:57. > :22:00.says so. If we have a future, it will only be possible if we retain
:22:01. > :22:04.the skills and capacity we currently have in Scotland.
:22:05. > :22:07.Now to this week's Prime Minister's Questions, dominated by the
:22:08. > :22:09.colourful private life of the Co-operative Bank's chairman, the
:22:10. > :22:12.Reverend Paul Flowers. However, Labour leader Ed Miliband started by
:22:13. > :22:15.attacking David Cameron for his proposals to close children's
:22:16. > :22:18.centres in England. But the Prime Minister defended his government's
:22:19. > :22:25.record, saying three and four year olds were getting 15 hours' free
:22:26. > :22:42.childcare for the first time ever. Letters take another example, in
:22:43. > :22:49.Essex, the proposal in Essex, their plan is to close 11 and include 37
:22:50. > :22:58.from 50 hours a week to as little as five. Fewer centres, fewer staff, .
:22:59. > :23:05.I is that doing what he promised before the election about improving
:23:06. > :23:10.childcare? I will tell you what is happening with regard to childcare.
:23:11. > :23:13.For the first time ever, 15 hours childcare for every child in the
:23:14. > :23:20.country. That never happened under the Labour Party. Three childcare
:23:21. > :23:25.hours for every disadvantaged -year-old in the country. That never
:23:26. > :23:30.happened under Labour. Also, tax-free childcare under this
:23:31. > :23:34.government, which never happened under the Labour Party. We also
:23:35. > :23:40.upgraded the childcare tax credit by over ?400. That is what is
:23:41. > :23:45.happening. One policy be no not adopted as the Labour policy is
:23:46. > :23:51.funding more hours through the bank levy. I will tell you right, they
:23:52. > :24:00.have already spent it came ten times over. The new jobs can, VAT cuts,
:24:01. > :24:01.more capital spending. This is not a policy, Reverend Paul Flowers it is
:24:02. > :24:14.an intent many people are forced back to work
:24:15. > :24:20.too soon after they have had the Child. The Prime Minister sickening
:24:21. > :24:31.to this so that British parents have the legal right to the time of after
:24:32. > :24:37.giving birth. I am very happy to get this. It is possible to take a
:24:38. > :24:43.little bit of time and stand back and come to terms with what has
:24:44. > :24:51.happened. I think he raises are very important point. Is the Prime
:24:52. > :25:02.Minister aware that according to the Economist, Britain is 159th in the
:25:03. > :25:11.world in terms of investment? Can he tell the house when, under his
:25:12. > :25:17.esteemed leadership and that of the Chancellor, Britain can catch up
:25:18. > :25:23.with all these other countries? I can only conclude that the right
:25:24. > :25:31.honourable gentleman has been out on a night out on the town with
:25:32. > :25:37.Reverend Paul Flowers. In the first six months of this year, Britain has
:25:38. > :25:46.received more inward investment than any other country in the world. Is
:25:47. > :25:53.it Parliamentary for the Prime Minister to respond by abusing other
:25:54. > :25:59.right honourable members? To say that I was taking mind altering
:26:00. > :26:06.substances. I respect the honourable gentleman. It was an important
:26:07. > :26:10.question and I tried to it. I made a light-hearted remark. If they
:26:11. > :26:18.caused any offence, I will happily with the right. It is very important
:26:19. > :26:21.that we can have a little bit of light had to light-hearted banter on
:26:22. > :26:25.both sides. Now, he has only been in the job a
:26:26. > :26:32.few weeks, but the new Scottish Secretary has already had to present
:26:33. > :26:35.his department's annual report. The Scottish Affairs Select Committee's
:26:36. > :26:37.remit is to examine the expenditure, administration and policy of the
:26:38. > :26:40.Scotland Office, including relations with the Scottish Parliament. Mr
:26:41. > :26:49.Carmichael explained to MPs how he saw his office working in the lead
:26:50. > :26:55.up to the referendum. It is clear that the resources of the Scottish
:26:56. > :27:03.government are devoted to the promotion of a yes vote in the
:27:04. > :27:11.referendum and I should wish to use resources of the Scotland office
:27:12. > :27:16.within the limits of propriety to ensure that the benefits of the
:27:17. > :27:21.United Kingdom and the benefits to Scotland team part of the United
:27:22. > :27:25.Kingdom are fully understood by the population in Scotland.
:27:26. > :27:35.Let us stay down at Westminster now and speak to our correspondent David
:27:36. > :27:39.Porter. Letters stick with Alistair Carmichael. He has only been in the
:27:40. > :27:48.job paid few weeks and then giving us the annual report. Yes, politics
:27:49. > :27:53.works in strange ways. That annual report is a fairly wide belief and
:27:54. > :28:01.it means they can go in all directions. They were discussing a
:28:02. > :28:06.little bit about the financing of the Scotland office, but then get on
:28:07. > :28:13.to the bedroom tax on the spare room subsidy, depending on your point of
:28:14. > :28:17.view and, of course, everything as it will be seen until next
:28:18. > :28:26.September, being seen through the prism of the independence rhetoric
:28:27. > :28:32.referendum. They wanted to ask the questions and the minister was going
:28:33. > :28:40.to answer the questions in a way he saw fit and ended up like the type
:28:41. > :28:47.of explanation you would expect to hear from a private company. Now,
:28:48. > :28:53.talk about the possible expansion of the Army reserve? Yes, this is an
:28:54. > :28:57.argument about the break-up of the British Army. When the coalition
:28:58. > :29:01.came into power, they looked at the books of a number of departments and
:29:02. > :29:08.looked at the books of the Ministry of Defence and saw there was some
:29:09. > :29:13.black holes in the defence expenditure. They were also looking
:29:14. > :29:15.at the finance of the Ministry of Defence and cut their cloth
:29:16. > :29:23.accordingly and decided that in future, the British Army, navy and
:29:24. > :29:27.air force would look different, which was basically coded language
:29:28. > :29:36.for saying there would be job cuts. There was a look at cutting the
:29:37. > :29:44.regular Army from 100,000 to 80000 and making up for that by boosting
:29:45. > :29:50.the voluntary defence organisations. The is a worry about this. There is
:29:51. > :29:53.a worry that by increasing their Navy reservists, you will get the
:29:54. > :30:09.mix and training of soldiers that you need should the British Army be
:30:10. > :30:15.called on again and conflict. And the issue of the Reverend Paul
:30:16. > :30:23.Flowers dominated debate. Ed Miliband, he was supposed to have
:30:24. > :30:28.egg on his face over that, but it was the Prime Minister who had to
:30:29. > :30:32.apologise. It was too much of a temptation as far as the
:30:33. > :30:41.Conservatives were concerned to have a bit of fun with it. The only thing
:30:42. > :30:48.we have not had about this and the Co-operative Bank is rock and roll.
:30:49. > :30:59.Someone who, it appears had no banking qualifications, got to run
:31:00. > :31:05.such a large corporation. He did not even know the assets of the bank.
:31:06. > :31:10.That would not have been a problem, but the problem for the Co-operative
:31:11. > :31:15.Bank was that it went through a merger and got itself a huge
:31:16. > :31:21.financial problems. The Co-op has always prided itself on being an
:31:22. > :31:27.ethical organisation. Questions now being asked about how competent
:31:28. > :31:44.those running the Co-op were. Add to this, -- add to this the
:31:45. > :31:55.relationship with the Labour Party. Let's pick up with Angus MacLeod.
:31:56. > :32:02.Don't forget, the Financial Services Authority, the former regulator
:32:03. > :32:14.actually approved Paul Flowers. The regulator has changed, we may well
:32:15. > :32:24.have tougher regulation now, but why was Paul Flowers still in place
:32:25. > :32:28.until quite recently. The Labour Party are very uncomfortable about
:32:29. > :32:37.this. There are no questions about loans to the Labour Party from the
:32:38. > :32:45.Co-op bank. There is a political backwash that the Conservative Party
:32:46. > :32:51.is trying to make into some kind of tidal wave.
:32:52. > :33:01.Thank you. Let's dip back into the chamber once again and pick up on
:33:02. > :33:09.the debate about defence. Keith Brown, the Transport Minister,
:33:10. > :33:17.is speaking. Could you resume your seat. I have a point of order. The
:33:18. > :33:23.minister draws attention to the efforts of the Scottish Government
:33:24. > :33:29.to protect employment. Why is there no employment minister here? Why is
:33:30. > :33:40.the Transport Minister responding to this debate? This is not a point of
:33:41. > :33:44.order. I have noticed that when members have not been able to make
:33:45. > :33:53.interventions, they have made points of order, it is not respectful. To
:33:54. > :34:01.test a proposition, we will look at the projects. The two aircraft
:34:02. > :34:09.carriers, only one of which will be operational. One will be held in
:34:10. > :34:14.extended readiness. The budget for both of them, the taxpayer was told
:34:15. > :34:32.by the Labour Party, was ?3.6 million. The budget has now blown
:34:33. > :34:37.out of the water and is 6.2 million. The UK defence procurement is a
:34:38. > :34:44.shambles. Look at the Nimrod project. Costing up to ?3.6 billion.
:34:45. > :34:53.The money paid for that was taken over by a half million pound
:34:54. > :35:04.commission to scrap Nimrod, and the scrap million was over ?1 million.
:35:05. > :35:20.We have no Nimrod aircraft to show for that. The third project, I would
:35:21. > :35:28.quote Bernie Hamilton who said of the Nimrod project that the lunatics
:35:29. > :35:44.have taken over the asylum, the UK defence procurement system is not
:35:45. > :35:58.good for workers in Scotland. With regard to recent naval... Yes, I
:35:59. > :36:03.will give way. Sustaining jobs in the Clyde is a good thing. This
:36:04. > :36:15.ministers seems to be suggesting it is a bad thing. Notwithstanding the
:36:16. > :36:21.direct consequences on those people who have lost their jobs. Inventing
:36:22. > :36:31.things that have been said is not a good way to advance an argument. The
:36:32. > :36:51.shipbuilding industry in Scotland, standing in sharp contrast to other
:36:52. > :37:01.missed opportunities to diversify. Johann Lamont says she does not
:37:02. > :37:13.understand the point of diversification. An independent
:37:14. > :37:21.Scotland will not require ?6.2 billion aircraft carriers, will need
:37:22. > :37:29.to address the fact... Order, please. We have a coastline longer
:37:30. > :37:37.than I, the current system leaves are coastline very unprotected. We
:37:38. > :37:42.will build upon expertise. Babcock is already diversifying into
:37:43. > :37:47.renewables. We can do better than the UK Government has done. The
:37:48. > :37:51.Scottish Parliament is working hard to support the industry and find new
:37:52. > :37:59.markets, capitalising on our strengths. We are determining our
:38:00. > :38:06.current procurement needs. I know that hundreds of B a staff are
:38:07. > :38:13.working with Babcock staff to complete the Assembly of the
:38:14. > :38:26.aircraft carriers. We need to see a change in defence technology.
:38:27. > :38:29.Keith Brown speaking live in the chamber.
:38:30. > :38:32.Let's go back to our top story, the same-sex marriage bill. Our
:38:33. > :38:39.political editor Brian Taylor is standing by at Holyrood.
:38:40. > :38:46.It is a late night for Holyrood tonight. What kind of opposition
:38:47. > :38:51.might we see emerging? You see position among the public, the
:38:52. > :38:57.churches and others. The opposition falls in two forms and that will be
:38:58. > :39:05.reflected in the debate today. There is a fundamentalist opposition, who
:39:06. > :39:13.oppose the proposal general. -- generally. The second is that the
:39:14. > :39:21.guarantees given to churches will not hold. What are the guarantees?
:39:22. > :39:30.The guarantees in the Bill say that for a church to take part, it must
:39:31. > :39:40.opt in to doing so, and that must apply to individual celebrants. They
:39:41. > :39:46.cannot be prejudiced against or prosecuted. You have two
:39:47. > :39:52.perspectives with regard to that. Those who are against the idea and
:39:53. > :39:57.the second, which will come more to the fore in the debate, those
:39:58. > :40:04.concerned that the guarantees will not stand. We were speaking to Jim
:40:05. > :40:10.Hume who was talking about 75% of Scottish people in one survey were
:40:11. > :40:15.in support of it. Is this the kind of figure that is being talked about
:40:16. > :40:21.in Parliament? You hear surveys and opinions. The actual consultation
:40:22. > :40:29.resulted in a response that was against. Does that reflect public
:40:30. > :40:32.view? Who knows? Anything that parliamentarians will decide upon
:40:33. > :40:38.their own assessment of the public mood, their own assessment of what
:40:39. > :40:43.is right, their own assessment of the guarantees that are given by the
:40:44. > :40:48.government. It looks, at this stage, as if the Bill will go through with
:40:49. > :40:52.a sizeable majority. Those who are opposed or disquieted by the Bill
:40:53. > :40:59.will abstain rather than vote against it. But it is a vote on an
:41:00. > :41:04.individual basis. My expectation is that it will go through and that
:41:05. > :41:16.most members can accept the assurances regarding the churches.
:41:17. > :41:23.The White Paper comes out next week, being launched in Glasgow. There has
:41:24. > :41:30.been some concern about that, contempt of Parliament? There has
:41:31. > :41:49.been a substantial row about that. As of today, there is a rammy going
:41:50. > :41:56.on. The opposition parties kicked up a stink to the idea. The second
:41:57. > :42:02.proposal, the second version is that the event in Glasgow will take
:42:03. > :42:10.place, followed by a statement by a minister, followed by goings-on in
:42:11. > :42:20.Parliament. But many feel it should be a parliamentary occasion. But the
:42:21. > :42:27.proposal for next week's business, I think, will go through. An event in
:42:28. > :43:05.Glasgow, parliamentary statement, and a full debate on Wednesday.
:43:06. > :43:45.If you are keen to watch the debate and That is all we have time for
:43:46. > :43:53.this week. There will be a special programme next Tuesday. I can enjoy
:43:54. > :43:55.the same. From all others, until then, have a good afternoon.