:00:18. > :00:23.Good afternoon and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up, why
:00:23. > :00:27.wait? This got a Secretary sets out his timetable for independence
:00:27. > :00:30.referendum, a four year before Alex Salmond's preferred date. Many
:00:30. > :00:33.Scottish politicians think making Edinburgh the home of the UK
:00:33. > :00:39.Government's Green Investment Bank has a capital idea. We find out why.
:00:39. > :00:41.And the weather may have been mild this winter but still one third of
:00:42. > :00:49.Scots are thought to be in fuel poverty. MSPs have been considering
:00:49. > :00:52.what can be done to help them. My studio guest today is the political
:00:53. > :00:56.and economic commentator Alf Young. The issue which has dominated for
:00:56. > :01:00.weeks and will do for months to come is the issue of independence
:01:00. > :01:03.and the referendum. We will hear from the UK government shortly, but
:01:03. > :01:08.we've had the Prime Minister in Scotland recently. How do you think
:01:08. > :01:10.the UK government have played their hand in this debate? There was a
:01:10. > :01:13.feeling David Cameron had rather overplayed his hand and got
:01:13. > :01:18.aggressive. I think that feeling changed when he did come up because
:01:18. > :01:22.he said things which were more emollient. Although he has angered
:01:22. > :01:27.some people on his own side because he's gone a bit further and said,
:01:27. > :01:31.if you say no, come the actor Will vote there might be something in
:01:31. > :01:34.the devo max option later on. But not spelling it out now. We are
:01:34. > :01:39.still at the early stages of establishing the ground rules, when
:01:39. > :01:42.it is going to happen, who's going to be able to vote and all of that.
:01:42. > :01:47.There are two consultations out there, the Westminster one and the
:01:47. > :01:52.Scottish one. One of them won't finish until May. We've got a long
:01:52. > :01:55.hiatus. Meanwhile, there's a lot of people out there in Scotland who
:01:55. > :01:59.want to talk about why we are doing this. What is going to be the
:01:59. > :02:03.advantages, what are going to be the disadvantages? That debate is
:02:03. > :02:07.getting squeezed out because we are talking about the roles still.
:02:07. > :02:11.not only people in Scotland who want to debate this. The Commons
:02:11. > :02:16.today have had lots of MPs based in England last thing questions about
:02:16. > :02:19.Scottish independence. Absolutely. Some nervousness, too, because
:02:19. > :02:23.Michael Gove made a speech to the press gallery in Westminster
:02:24. > :02:27.yesterday in which he was saying, look, don't be too nasty to the
:02:27. > :02:30.Scots because that would just alienate them and get them to vote
:02:30. > :02:34.yes. There's a lot of psychology being played out in the political
:02:34. > :02:38.arena. But a lot of people who are looking at this as an issue that
:02:38. > :02:42.affects their lives, we are told it is the most important decision in
:02:42. > :02:47.300 years. They want to talk about what it means and how we all change
:02:47. > :02:51.our lives. More from you later on. Let's join that political arena.
:02:51. > :03:00.Michael Moore is currently giving evidence to be spotted Affairs
:03:00. > :03:05.Select Committee. -- Scottish. I think that is very important.
:03:05. > :03:09.There's a dynamic about devolution, the discussion of it. It doesn't
:03:09. > :03:13.need permission from a referendum to get going. In Scotland, we are
:03:13. > :03:17.well capable of considering these two things in parallel. But the
:03:17. > :03:21.central issue we are being asked to decide on is whether we stay as
:03:21. > :03:25.part of the UK or go our own separate ways. I don't think you
:03:25. > :03:31.can escape the need to deal with that in a straightforward, clear-
:03:31. > :03:41.cut manner. That is what I want to see. As for other debates, as ever
:03:41. > :03:48.in Scotland, we will have many. Surely there have been -- there has
:03:48. > :03:49.been an error in suggesting the alternative to separation is some
:03:49. > :03:52.sort of enhanced devolution. Because that then allows those who
:03:52. > :03:57.are deliberately seeking to avoid spelling out what separation would
:03:57. > :04:02.mean, to try and actually focus on the question of what the changes in
:04:02. > :04:06.devolution would be. And to keep Dustin everyone's eyes in order to
:04:06. > :04:12.avoid spelling out the details of separation. Surely that has been
:04:12. > :04:16.little more than a diversion. think we've all been involved in
:04:16. > :04:20.Scottish politics for a long period of time in different ways. We've
:04:20. > :04:26.seen the debate evolve over decades. I don't think there's a problem
:04:26. > :04:30.about us having a debate about further devolution or looking at
:04:30. > :04:33.that while also get into the heart of this fundamental question about
:04:33. > :04:37.Scotland's place in the United Kingdom. I don't think with regard
:04:37. > :04:40.to what the Prime Minister said next week, I don't think it will
:04:40. > :04:45.stop the debate over what future devolution will look like from
:04:45. > :04:48.taking place. What I think is good is we are not now going to be
:04:48. > :04:52.pigeon-holing this argument and singing you are stuck with this and
:04:52. > :04:56.nothing further, or you can have independence. That would have been
:04:56. > :05:03.an interesting place to be. That is not what is happening. We can focus
:05:03. > :05:07.on the issue. During Scottish Questions, many people wish to
:05:07. > :05:11.challenge the SNP and the Scottish government to set out what the
:05:11. > :05:18.issues are about how one independent Scotland might look.
:05:18. > :05:22.Your own report has taken that debate on. I anticipate, as you
:05:22. > :05:27.take evidence through this inquiry and other aspects of it, we will
:05:27. > :05:31.get many of those questions sorted. I don't think we need to worry
:05:31. > :05:34.about Scotland's political band with coping with these two issues
:05:34. > :05:39.simultaneously. It was important that the Prime Minister made that
:05:39. > :05:44.clear, otherwise the debate was going to be characterised as the
:05:45. > :05:48.Status Quo or independents, and the Prime Minister made it clear that
:05:48. > :05:52.if proposals come forward in relation to further devolution, he
:05:52. > :05:57.is open to them. One of the other interesting points which he was
:05:57. > :06:01.asked about after the speech in Edinburgh is he was able to set out
:06:01. > :06:06.his own record in relation to devolution. He took the
:06:06. > :06:08.Conservative Party into the Calman Commission. It was in the
:06:08. > :06:12.Conservative Party UK manifest to win 2010 that we would have
:06:12. > :06:15.implemented the Calman Commission, whether or not there had been the
:06:15. > :06:22.coalition. As head of the coalition government, he is implementing
:06:22. > :06:26.those proposals. He has a very strong record on devolution. Unlike
:06:26. > :06:30.the Scottish National Party, who as you are aware refused to take part
:06:30. > :06:34.in the Calman Commission. Whilst at for powers were being debated in
:06:34. > :06:38.that forum, rubbished extra powers because all they wanted was
:06:39. > :06:46.independence. Suddenly they are interested in extra powers. That is
:06:46. > :06:49.helpful. It may be allows me to move on slightly. I cut to the
:06:49. > :06:55.point we made in our document. We are going to be exploring a number
:06:55. > :06:58.of these. I was at the Defence College on Monday and Tuesday
:06:58. > :07:02.discussing some of these things. They have indicated that if they
:07:02. > :07:06.are going to participate in the discussions, they would need to
:07:06. > :07:10.have the agreement of yourselves as the relevant Secretary of State in
:07:10. > :07:14.order they are not seen to be intervening directly in partisan
:07:14. > :07:20.politics. I'm sure you'll agree to make the appropriate arrangements
:07:20. > :07:25.for that. In order that we can clarify what the defence
:07:25. > :07:30.implications are of separation. said in your report how you intend
:07:30. > :07:34.to work... I will be very co- operative with you and any of the
:07:34. > :07:42.committee who wishes to examine any of the issues around this. I'm sure
:07:42. > :07:45.Scottish ministers hint that nothing very much would change if
:07:45. > :07:48.Scotland left the UK, for example the use of sterling and the
:07:48. > :07:53.monarchy. Are the Scottish Government in a position to make
:07:53. > :07:59.that kind of comment? They set out their aspirations, they set out
:07:59. > :08:03.what they wished to see. It is not for me to get into any issues
:08:03. > :08:07.around Her Majesty and the Royal Family. Separately, on currency,
:08:07. > :08:12.that is fundamental. We've seen an interesting shift from the SNP,
:08:13. > :08:19.saying it was committed to joining the single currency, to saying it
:08:19. > :08:25.would stay within the sterling area. But they have not spelled out how
:08:25. > :08:29.that is envisaged working. That is a short flavour of what is going on
:08:29. > :08:34.there. We will bring you any significant developments. At
:08:34. > :08:37.Westminster, the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, focused on NHS reforms in
:08:37. > :08:44.England during Prime Minister's Question Time. Lots of Scots MPs
:08:44. > :08:52.were also asking questions. Monday, the Prime Minister held his
:08:52. > :08:57.emergency NHS summit. And managed to exclude the main organisations
:08:57. > :09:02.representing the following professions. The GPs, nurses,
:09:02. > :09:05.midwives, pathologists, psychiatrists, physiotherapists and,
:09:05. > :09:10.just for good measure, the radiologist's. How can he possibly
:09:10. > :09:18.think it is a good idea to hold a healthy Summit which excludes the
:09:18. > :09:25.vast majority of people who work in the NHS? What I want to do is
:09:26. > :09:32.safeguard our NHS. We've come on this side of the House, are putting
:09:32. > :09:37.more money into the NHS. Money that they are specifically committed to
:09:37. > :09:41.taking out. Let's be frank, money alone is not going to be enough.
:09:41. > :09:46.We've got to meet the challenge of an ageing population, more
:09:46. > :09:51.expensive treatments, more people on long-term conditions, and that
:09:51. > :09:54.is why we've got to reform the NHS. My Summit was about those
:09:54. > :10:00.organisations, including clinical commissioning groups up and down
:10:00. > :10:04.the country, 8200 GP practices that want to put these reforms in place.
:10:04. > :10:08.Given what the Prime Minister said last week in Scotland, where he
:10:09. > :10:14.devote as much time to facing up to the grievances that the English
:10:14. > :10:18.feel from the current proposals of devolution, as he will be given to
:10:18. > :10:22.considering new proposals of devolution to Scotland? Would you
:10:22. > :10:26.open a major debate in the House on the English question, so that
:10:26. > :10:30.members from all parts of the House can advise him on what measures of
:10:30. > :10:36.devolution England needs if we are to gain equity with other countries
:10:36. > :10:40.in the UK? We have obviously set up the West Lothian group to look at
:10:40. > :10:45.this issue. We want to make sure that devolution works for everyone
:10:45. > :10:48.in the UK. I would part company slightly with the right honourable
:10:48. > :10:52.gentleman for this reason. I believe the UK has been an
:10:52. > :10:56.incredibly successful partnership between all its members. I think
:10:56. > :11:00.that far from wanting to appeal to English people that in any weight
:11:00. > :11:03.to nurture a grievance they feel, I want to appeal to my fellow
:11:03. > :11:07.Englishman to say, this has been a great partnership. A great
:11:07. > :11:12.partnership for Scotland and a great partnership for England, too.
:11:12. > :11:17.Of course Scotland should make its choice. But we hope that Scotland
:11:17. > :11:19.will choose to remain in this partnership. Last week in Edinburgh
:11:19. > :11:24.the Prime Minister said there were more powers on the table for
:11:24. > :11:28.Scotland but could name any of them. A few months ago he mocked the idea
:11:28. > :11:35.of Scotland controlling its own oil well. Can the Prime Minister now
:11:35. > :11:38.name one power that he has on his mind from this latest U-turn?
:11:38. > :11:42.didn't think that the Scottish National Party favoured devolution.
:11:42. > :11:46.I thought they favoured separation. Yet as soon as you are offered a
:11:46. > :11:51.referendum that gives you the chance to put that in front of the
:11:51. > :11:54.Scottish people, you start running away. Would he agree with me that
:11:54. > :11:59.it is inappropriate and unsatisfactory or perhaps even
:11:59. > :12:03.arrogant that when constituents who serve in the Marine forces in
:12:03. > :12:07.Dundee, my constituency, expressed concerns about the possible
:12:07. > :12:12.closures of that detachment, I write to the Ministry of Defence
:12:12. > :12:16.and they refused to give me a definitive answer? I thank the
:12:16. > :12:22.honourable gentleman for raising again the case of the brave men
:12:22. > :12:26.from the RAF Regiment, all of those who serve in Afghanistan as well.
:12:26. > :12:31.The Reserve forces and our country are a huge asset. We want to see
:12:31. > :12:35.them expanded. We have put up a �1 billion into that of expansion
:12:35. > :12:39.between now and 2015 to make sure we can do that. In terms of the
:12:39. > :12:41.Dundee Royal Marine Reserve headquarters, no decision has been
:12:41. > :12:46.taken on its future. There's no intention to cut the number of
:12:46. > :12:50.Royal Marine reservists in Scotland. Across Scotland, the whole issue of
:12:50. > :12:54.our armed forces and reservists, we need more people to join the
:12:54. > :12:58.reserves. Our Westminster correspondent, David Porter, is on
:12:58. > :13:01.the grass of College Green outside Westminster. Tell us more about
:13:01. > :13:05.this idea Michael Moore seems to have suggested about his own
:13:05. > :13:08.timetable rather than Alex Salmond's for the referendum?
:13:08. > :13:14.Michael Moore is giving evidence to the Scottish Affairs Committee,
:13:14. > :13:18.which is conducting its own inquiry into the independence referendum or,
:13:18. > :13:23.as they put it, the referendum on separation. Those are the words
:13:23. > :13:28.they are choosing to use. Michael Moore said that he had yet to see a
:13:28. > :13:32.knockout blow for the argument that the referendum ought to be in 2014.
:13:32. > :13:36.What the Scotland Office has done, they believe all the pre-
:13:36. > :13:43.referendum scrutiny can take place far sooner than the Scottish
:13:43. > :13:46.government are indicating. They believe that a referendum could be
:13:46. > :13:50.held in September 2013. A full year ahead of what the Scottish
:13:50. > :13:53.Government is proposing. It builds on an argument we heard at Scottish
:13:53. > :13:57.Questions this morning, when Michael Moore was saying he wants
:13:57. > :14:00.that referendum sooner rather than later. As far as Scottish politics
:14:00. > :14:05.is concerned with all that has been going on in the last few weeks, no
:14:05. > :14:08.shortage of issues to discuss. I'm joined by three MPs with a
:14:08. > :14:13.knowledge and love of Scotland. Angus MacNeil, from the SNP, Ian
:14:13. > :14:17.Stewart, although he represents an English seat, when he speaks you
:14:17. > :14:21.will realise he is a Scot, and Willie Bain, as part of Labour's
:14:21. > :14:25.Scottish team. What do you make of this idea that Michael Moore is now
:14:25. > :14:35.floating, that we don't have to wait until 2014, we could
:14:35. > :14:39.conceivably have a referendum a Indeed, that is why we have called
:14:39. > :14:44.for cross-party talks to decide when the referendum should be held.
:14:44. > :14:49.It is clear the uncertain seek is causing damage to Scotland's
:14:49. > :14:52.economic prospects at a time when a one in four macro Scottish
:14:52. > :14:57.youngsters are out of work and we have desperately low consumer
:14:57. > :15:03.confidence. We need to get this decided as soon as possible so we
:15:03. > :15:09.can get on with building a better economic future for Scotland.
:15:09. > :15:13.of it be sooner rather than later? Do we need this lengthy process?
:15:13. > :15:20.What Alex Salmond is scared of, why the delay of five years to bring
:15:20. > :15:25.this forward? As Williams said, it is causing economic uncertainty and
:15:25. > :15:31.it is damaging to Scotland's position. It happened in Canada
:15:31. > :15:38.when Quebec went through the uncertainty of its position. Just
:15:38. > :15:43.get on with it. Why couldn't it be earlier than 2014? And unimpressed
:15:43. > :15:50.for the enthusiasm for the referendum. With this rate of
:15:50. > :15:55.progress, should we want independence in 2014? It will
:15:55. > :16:01.happen in 2014 because that is when the decision will be made. They
:16:01. > :16:04.have been 75 independence referendum worldwide. These
:16:05. > :16:11.gentlemen are need to get their heads round about what is happening.
:16:11. > :16:16.If they are impatient, the question asked to David Cameron today was,
:16:16. > :16:19.name one more power. We will deal with that in a moment, but if you
:16:19. > :16:25.are so confident you are on to a winner and everyone will know the
:16:25. > :16:31.arguments, that it has to wait until 2014? What is the argument
:16:31. > :16:35.again saying we can hold one before them? We said it would be in the
:16:35. > :16:40.second half of the Parliament and that is exactly what the SNP are
:16:40. > :16:45.going to do. David Cameron went to Edinburgh last week and said, don't
:16:45. > :16:49.vote for independence. If you vote no, we will give the Scottish
:16:49. > :16:57.Parliament more powers, but I won't take you what they are. It is not
:16:57. > :17:00.convincing is it? The Scotland Bill is a massive transfer of power from
:17:00. > :17:05.here to the Scottish Parliament from the Government. Devolution we
:17:05. > :17:09.have always said is an evolutionary process. I don't regard the
:17:09. > :17:13.Scotland Bill as the be all and end all, but we should take time to
:17:13. > :17:18.consider the implications of further transfers of powers at the
:17:18. > :17:22.right time. The process is already happening. But the politics of it
:17:22. > :17:28.is, the argument David Cameron put forward cannot hold until a
:17:28. > :17:37.referendum, whether it be 2013, 24 team, you will have to flesh out
:17:37. > :17:41.your proposals before that? -- 2014. Whether Scotland should split from
:17:41. > :17:45.the United Kingdom is a clear choice, and by one Scotland to
:17:45. > :17:51.remain part of the Union. It has been a successful partnership for
:17:51. > :17:54.three centuries. I want that to continue. Whether we look for them
:17:54. > :18:00.at a what other arrangements we could have within the United
:18:00. > :18:03.Kingdom, is a separate matter. need to resolve the issue as to
:18:03. > :18:09.whether Scotland is going to leave Britain or stay within Britain and
:18:09. > :18:13.then look at what further powers can be devolved. But the tragic is
:18:13. > :18:17.the biggest robot to Scotland's getting more powers now is Alex
:18:17. > :18:23.Salmond. In January he said it was a lack of demand and a lack of
:18:23. > :18:27.borrowing capacity, there was �1.7 billion in borrowing powers just
:18:27. > :18:30.waiting to come to Scotland if the Scotland Bill was passed. Alex
:18:30. > :18:37.Salmond should show his support for the Scotland Bill and get those
:18:37. > :18:41.powers to get the Scottish economy moving again. We make use of these
:18:41. > :18:46.powers in the Scotland Bill? people talk about constitutional
:18:46. > :18:52.uncertainty but then want to talk about the on 2014. Whatever they
:18:52. > :18:55.have got on the minds, do with it now. We must be honest with the
:18:55. > :19:00.people of Scotland. Then let's go to the independence referendum
:19:00. > :19:04.knowing what is on the table. you worried if this goes on for two
:19:05. > :19:09.years, people in Scotland and your constituents in England will be fed
:19:09. > :19:14.up with this? I think there is a risk of the uncertainty harming
:19:14. > :19:19.both Scotland and the whole of the United Kingdom, economic The Eagles
:19:19. > :19:24.stock if overseas companies looking to invest in Europe are face with
:19:24. > :19:31.his Constanze uncertainty, it is not good. The evidence was in
:19:31. > :19:34.Canada. It is it a distraction? It is important, but will it be a
:19:34. > :19:40.distraction that will affect Scotland and England badly if it
:19:40. > :19:44.does not get settled sooner rather than later? There is a plethora of
:19:45. > :19:52.unanswered questions the SNP will have to answer. Noel regulate the
:19:52. > :19:56.banks that are separated from the UK? -- who will. One of the
:19:56. > :20:02.advantages is being part of a fiscal union. We know anything that
:20:02. > :20:08.happens in the eurozone, any successful currency needs fiscal
:20:08. > :20:16.unity. Raymond, more questions than answers at the moment probably, as
:20:16. > :20:20.they say this one will run and run. Let's get Alfie's thoughts on those
:20:20. > :20:24.questions we have just heard debated. David Cameron's
:20:24. > :20:32.intervention, how crucial is it that he does put some meat on the
:20:32. > :20:35.bones? He suggested talks on Scottish people were voting no on
:20:35. > :20:39.the referendum but we don't know what is on the agenda? He was
:20:39. > :20:43.trying to stick with a straight question, yes or No to independence
:20:43. > :20:49.or where we are at the moment. He did not want to close the door
:20:49. > :20:52.entirely on what many people were suggesting, and what Alex Salmond
:20:52. > :20:56.was encouraging people to think was the case, that there was a
:20:56. > :21:04.groundswell of opinion in favour of another option that it was more
:21:04. > :21:10.powers for the Scottish Parliament. Getting on to that, it is still
:21:10. > :21:14.bogged down and the whole question when this is happening, and what
:21:14. > :21:18.timescale. Angus MacNeil says it is because they say it before the last
:21:18. > :21:25.Scottish election it would be in the second half of the Parliament.
:21:25. > :21:30.In fact, because of when matter was, September 2013 almost take you into
:21:30. > :21:33.the second half of the Parliament anyway. Why wait another year? We
:21:33. > :21:37.have been through difficult economic times, and every
:21:37. > :21:43.politician knows you don't get people to opt for big, new changes
:21:43. > :21:47.unless you are reasonably good, and if they are feeling good about
:21:47. > :21:51.themselves and their family and their future. Leading off until
:21:51. > :21:55.later buys the possibility that things will have got back towards
:21:55. > :21:59.normal and people think and -- thinks their living standards are
:21:59. > :22:05.growing. There is an opportunity then to think about voting Yes to a
:22:05. > :22:13.big change. One thing that struck me about that discussion, is people
:22:13. > :22:23.seem to be wanting to transfer of powers discussion between the UK
:22:23. > :22:23.
:22:23. > :22:29.and the Scottish Parliament. It is the flushing out a fixed, firm date
:22:29. > :22:33.from the Scottish Government's as to when the referendum should take
:22:33. > :22:39.place. But it is an ugly duckling in the corner. A lot of people
:22:39. > :22:45.promoted it at first point, are less happy about what has emerged
:22:45. > :22:50.in terms of some of the tax change powers. Opposite, the borrowing
:22:50. > :22:53.bits, because that is something that does have the potential to get
:22:53. > :22:57.the Westminster Government and the Scottish Government together. Alex
:22:57. > :23:03.Salmond says he wants more borrowing powers. But there is a
:23:03. > :23:07.lot of people who think the Scotland Bill currently going
:23:07. > :23:10.through Westminster has got in the road of the bigger debate of
:23:10. > :23:14.Scotland's constitutional future. Lot of the debate has been about
:23:14. > :23:20.the process, how much do you think ordinary voters are paying
:23:20. > :23:25.attention to this debate so far? think not in terms of the process.
:23:25. > :23:29.That is simply the means to the end of getting a decision out of the
:23:29. > :23:32.Scottish people. I think what people are interested in, is what
:23:32. > :23:37.kind of Scotland we would have. What would an independent Scotland
:23:37. > :23:41.be able to bring to the lives of people in Scotland, that being part
:23:41. > :23:47.of the current union does not make possible? That is a debate people
:23:47. > :23:52.want to have. But it is getting pushed out of the arena at the
:23:52. > :23:57.moment by this constant reiteration of the debate about tactics and
:23:57. > :24:03.mechanism. It is not what strikes a chord in the vast majority of
:24:03. > :24:07.people, who are not members of any political party. They are viewing
:24:07. > :24:11.this in terms of their own lines and the lives of their family.
:24:11. > :24:17.do you think the referendum will take place? Given the Westminster
:24:17. > :24:21.Government have said from the start, seeded the power of the Scottish
:24:21. > :24:26.Parliament, now it is a majority SNP Government, to have its
:24:26. > :24:31.referendum. Although there is hardball going on, I cannot see you
:24:31. > :24:35.can stop it happening in that latter part of 2014. He mentioned
:24:35. > :24:40.about the economic circumstances, we notice the coalition's plan to
:24:40. > :24:44.reduce the deficit, that is no longer going to plan, the cuts will
:24:44. > :24:49.continue past the next UK General Election. Do you think the fact
:24:49. > :24:54.that there will be cuts facing the UK governments will have a big
:24:54. > :24:59.thing in packs on the independence referendum? Who knows how it will
:24:59. > :25:07.play. If we are still in austerity, to use a phrase of the moment, if
:25:07. > :25:10.we are still in austerity in October of 2014, people will be
:25:10. > :25:15.concerned about making any big change that creates even more
:25:15. > :25:20.economic uncertainty, in terms of what currency we will be using. Or
:25:20. > :25:24.you can argue that we will have it so long of this austerity programme
:25:24. > :25:27.we will be feeling like the Greek people and be sick of all
:25:27. > :25:33.politicians and might just say, let's at least have politicians in
:25:33. > :25:38.our own Parliament in Edinburgh that we can control. Who knows.
:25:38. > :25:45.More from you later on. Politics does not get much more personal
:25:45. > :25:48.than a debate over in issue which - - which has cost your child alike.
:25:48. > :25:52.Dennis Robertson is leading a motion today at the Scottish
:25:53. > :25:56.Parliament on the issue of eating disorders. His daughter, Caroline,
:25:56. > :26:03.died from a serious eating disorder and that is why he is so passionate
:26:03. > :26:08.about the subject. I am now joined by Dennis Robertson, MSP at the
:26:08. > :26:13.Scottish Parliament. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Politics does not
:26:13. > :26:19.get much more personal than this, can you outline to us why you have
:26:19. > :26:27.decided to debate is very serious issue? Principally, I was asked by
:26:27. > :26:33.one of the charity's a couple of weeks ago, if I could highlight and
:26:33. > :26:40.awareness of eating disorders because of personal circumstances.
:26:40. > :26:43.I was pleased to do so. I said I would and put forward at a motion
:26:43. > :26:46.and it was chosen for members to debate. What can you tell us about
:26:46. > :26:52.what happened to your family and what lessons you have learned as a
:26:52. > :26:59.result of that? My daughter, Caroline, became anorexic when she
:26:59. > :27:04.was 13. We became aware of its fairly quickly and a GP did as well.
:27:04. > :27:10.She was referred to the appropriate services. But unfortunately,
:27:10. > :27:17.Caroline died as a result of her anorexia five years after that
:27:17. > :27:22.initial diagnosis. It's has been a dramatic and difficult time.
:27:22. > :27:25.Difficult for my family going through that whole period. Probably
:27:25. > :27:30.difficult for her mum and certainly her sister, the owner, because
:27:30. > :27:37.Fiona is a twin. He talked about the fact your daughter had been
:27:37. > :27:40.referred to services and one of the things as a policy-maker, you can
:27:41. > :27:46.have an impact on what services are available. What did you learn about
:27:46. > :27:52.the help that is out there? One of the things I first learnt his third
:27:52. > :27:56.is very few services and it will two's -- support to some extent.
:27:56. > :28:00.Although they are available, did they meet the need of Caroline Hill
:28:00. > :28:05.and out their illness and the family? The answer to that has to
:28:05. > :28:10.be known. Everyone did what they could in terms of providing what
:28:10. > :28:15.resources they could and in terms of appointments, but the actual
:28:15. > :28:20.need for Caroline was far greater than the resources could probably
:28:20. > :28:29.facilitate. And the need of the family was some think I think, is
:28:29. > :28:34.not ignored, but I don't think it is uppermost in the treatment of
:28:34. > :28:39.anorexia. And because Caroline was a twin, more focus should have been
:28:39. > :28:46.given to her sister also. What do you think you will achieve by
:28:46. > :28:50.having this debate? More awareness. GPs should be more work that when
:28:50. > :28:59.young girls present themselves it is not a pubescent problem in terms
:28:59. > :29:05.of their body and shape. It could be something more serious. One in
:29:05. > :29:08.250 goals were predisposed to anorexia tendencies. -- girls. We
:29:08. > :29:15.need to get medical professionals to be more aware of what needs to
:29:15. > :29:20.be done at a much earlier stage. Thanks for joining us. Next week we
:29:20. > :29:23.expect to learn a weather Edinburgh will be the new home for the Green
:29:24. > :29:27.Investment Bank. Politicians of all callers backed the idea and this is
:29:27. > :29:35.what the Prime Minister had to say earlier today when he was asked if
:29:35. > :29:39.the bank would be located in the It is being considered, but other
:29:40. > :29:44.bids have been made from other regions of the country's that all
:29:44. > :29:50.want to host this great innovation. Sir how well MSPs convincing? They
:29:50. > :30:00.are debating the issue in the main chamber of Hollywood now. --
:30:00. > :30:03.
:30:03. > :30:08.It has been said this location of this institution would help prevent
:30:08. > :30:11.a cluster of expertise. He is talking about the Edinburgh bid.
:30:11. > :30:17.Here in Edinburgh and around Edinburgh in all of these matters.
:30:17. > :30:22.Indeed, Edinburgh is unique as the only location in the UK bringing
:30:22. > :30:28.together both finance and the clean energy industry in a single place.
:30:28. > :30:32.It has an unrivalled concentration of industry, skills and experience
:30:32. > :30:38.supporting effective commercialisation. As part of the
:30:38. > :30:40.UK's Reading region involved in green if -- Green infrastructure,
:30:40. > :30:45.locating the bank in Edinburgh would ensure the best possible
:30:45. > :30:51.chance for the UK to develop as the European centre of excellence in
:30:51. > :30:56.this sector. And people wish to come to Edinburgh. Edinburgh is
:30:56. > :30:59.recognised as having a world-class quality of life, with a global
:30:59. > :31:04.profile which has been proven to attract and retain the best in
:31:04. > :31:07.professional talent. In addition to that, property and transaction
:31:07. > :31:12.costs in Edinburgh are high the competitive with other cities, and
:31:12. > :31:18.Edinburgh is one of the UK's best connected cities, with a strong
:31:18. > :31:24.domestic and international transport links and world-class ICT
:31:24. > :31:29.links. I would therefore ask this parliament to join me in agreeing
:31:29. > :31:33.that as set out in a bid, I quote, given the quality of Edinburgh's
:31:33. > :31:37.ecosystem, the Green Investment Bank will have a greater economic
:31:37. > :31:40.impact at a UK let all that if the band were cited in other locations.
:31:40. > :31:44.This in turn will help the UK government to deliver its low carb
:31:44. > :31:48.and objectives. Let me turn to the support the government can offer it
:31:48. > :31:51.to ensuring the success of the Green Investment Bank located in
:31:51. > :31:55.Edinburgh. I believe the government must be able to demonstrate its
:31:55. > :32:00.credentials and commitment to the aims of the Investment Bank. Mainly
:32:00. > :32:04.to provide the financial solutions to accelerate private sector
:32:04. > :32:10.investment in the transition to a Green economy. Or it is that which
:32:10. > :32:14.will create the certainty that must exist in order to persuade major
:32:14. > :32:17.investment decisions to be made in Scotland's favour. The Scottish
:32:17. > :32:21.Government must put a low carbon economy at the centre of its
:32:21. > :32:26.economic agenda. Growth in the low carbon energy sector, particularly
:32:26. > :32:29.renewables, will be a significant contributor to that agenda. The
:32:29. > :32:33.Green Investment Bank has the potential to deliver significant
:32:33. > :32:39.benefit to the green economy in Scotland. We have committed to
:32:39. > :32:46.achieving ambitious low carbon headline target by 2020 and 2050,
:32:46. > :32:49.and interim ones as we move towards 2024 carbon emission reductions,
:32:49. > :32:52.particularly in the electricity generation sector, for a major
:32:52. > :32:57.increase in renewables and for improving energy efficiency. We
:32:57. > :33:00.have been crystal-clear about our commitments. We have published our
:33:00. > :33:05.renewables would map in June last year, which outlines the actions
:33:05. > :33:09.required to achieve the 100 % equivalent Cross annual electricity
:33:09. > :33:14.consumption target. We will soon publish the updated electricity
:33:14. > :33:17.generation statement that will give the latest position on renewable
:33:17. > :33:23.electricity and fossil Bjork firm bought generation in Scotland's
:33:23. > :33:27.future energy mix. And we will publish the second report on
:33:27. > :33:31.proposals and policies in the first half of 2012 or thereabouts, which
:33:31. > :33:36.will report progress on emissions reductions. We have been clear that
:33:36. > :33:39.we have plans on how to achieve our objectives for low carbon. So we
:33:39. > :33:46.can point at all the strategic facts which demonstrate our
:33:46. > :33:50.commitment to the green economy and thus contribute an important and
:33:50. > :33:53.vital weight to investor confidence. This Parliament has previously
:33:53. > :33:57.recognised the considerable benefits that the Green Investment
:33:57. > :34:02.Bank would bring to Scotland and Edinburgh. When I last spoke to
:34:02. > :34:08.Parliament on this matter, I stated that the task before us was not to
:34:08. > :34:12.be seen as Vince Cable described it as, a front runner, but to be seen
:34:12. > :34:17.as the front-runner. And ultimately, the choice. I commend that approach
:34:17. > :34:22.to this Parliament. I look forward very much to hearing contributions
:34:22. > :34:25.from my colleagues. That was Fergus Ewing, the Energy Minister. That
:34:25. > :34:32.debate is due to go on for the afternoon. For some reaction now,
:34:32. > :34:36.we have Labour's Sarah Boyack and Jimmy E.T., from the SNP. Sarah
:34:36. > :34:41.Boyack, the case was made for the Scottish capital to be the home of
:34:41. > :34:46.the new UK Green Investment Bank. Is that something you approve of?
:34:46. > :34:49.The very much so. Edinburgh has a fantastic case to put for being the
:34:49. > :34:54.best location for the home of the UK to host the Green Investment
:34:54. > :34:57.Bank. We have fantastic expertise in financial services and
:34:57. > :35:00.Investment Management, fund management. The legal background,
:35:00. > :35:04.the academic links and we have a huge number of renewables being
:35:04. > :35:10.developed on our doorstep. I would say unrivalled experience in
:35:10. > :35:14.Edinburgh. We in the Labour Party are 110 % behind this bank coming
:35:14. > :35:19.to Edinburgh. How much of an issue do think that this is an investment
:35:19. > :35:23.from the UK government and of course, the Scottish government are
:35:23. > :35:27.proposing an independence referendum which would see the
:35:27. > :35:33.union between Scotland and England ended. Do you think that will have
:35:33. > :35:36.an impact on the decision-making process? I don't think so. I think
:35:36. > :35:39.the Scottish Government is right. The Green Investment Bank should
:35:39. > :35:46.come to Scotland because the business case for it coming to
:35:46. > :35:49.Scotland is a very strong. As Sarah Boyack said, we have very strong,
:35:49. > :35:53.highly skilled work force within financial services in Edinburgh.
:35:53. > :35:56.Edinburgh is a global centre for financial services. Scotland is
:35:56. > :36:00.Europe's renewable energy and green energy powerhouse. So what right we
:36:00. > :36:04.should have the Green Investment Bank located in Edinburgh, for the
:36:04. > :36:07.benefit of Scotland and the UK. if you are the UK Business
:36:07. > :36:12.Secretary, wouldn't you look at areas such as the north-east of
:36:12. > :36:15.England, which have much more economic disadvantage than Scotland
:36:16. > :36:19.and think this is an opportunity to send much-needed investment and
:36:19. > :36:24.jobs to a part of the UK which is currently suffering? I don't think
:36:24. > :36:29.this is a regional policy or economic decision that is being
:36:29. > :36:35.made. It's a decision about which is the best location for the Green
:36:35. > :36:39.Investment Bank, based on the workforce that is available and its
:36:39. > :36:43.proximity to the renewable energy sector, where Scotland has
:36:44. > :36:46.considerable strength. I think the business case is strong. The case
:36:46. > :36:50.for the Green Investment Bank being located in Edinburgh is very strong.
:36:50. > :36:53.That is why there is cross-party support and a united front across
:36:53. > :36:58.the Parliament in favour of the Green Investment Bank coming to
:36:58. > :37:01.Scotland. The Prime Minister today, obviously knowledgeable that
:37:01. > :37:05.Edinburgh is pitching for this particular investment, but saying
:37:05. > :37:10.lots of parts of the UK would love to see this bank located in their
:37:10. > :37:14.areas. Why do you think Edinburgh will be successful? I hope the
:37:14. > :37:17.strength of our case will win out at the end of the day. It would be
:37:17. > :37:21.good news for all the renewables projects across the UK it Edinburgh
:37:22. > :37:25.were to be able to lead with his bank. Getting the investment is
:37:25. > :37:28.going to be important for the home of the UK. It is not just
:37:28. > :37:32.renewables, it is some of the other low carbon investments that we need
:37:32. > :37:36.to be powering ahead with in the UK. We are in a time of recession, and
:37:36. > :37:39.this is the next generation of exciting manufacturing
:37:39. > :37:43.opportunities. We are well placed in every. We would be the best
:37:43. > :37:46.location. I hope the UK government will be looking at it in terms of
:37:46. > :37:55.what is best for the whole of the UK to make sure this money is spent
:37:55. > :37:59.properly and gets maximum bang for For Alf Young is still with me. You
:37:59. > :38:02.are an economic commentator. Give us your perspective on just how
:38:03. > :38:07.well placed Edinburgh is for this kind of investment. As someone said
:38:07. > :38:12.earlier, it's one of 32 locations. There's another one in Scotland
:38:12. > :38:18.which seems to have been sidelined. Where is that? Renfrewshire, I
:38:18. > :38:23.think. Every other city in England, from Newcastle down to London
:38:23. > :38:28.itself is in for it. Cardiff is in for it. There's a lot of
:38:28. > :38:32.competition. A lot of these other places have the financial expertise.
:38:32. > :38:39.They are provincial English cities that have quite big financial
:38:39. > :38:43.sectors. They may not have as much expertise in the renewable
:38:43. > :38:46.technologies. But I think it's still an open question. How much of
:38:47. > :38:50.a comparative advantage does Scotland have in terms of that
:38:50. > :38:54.renewable technology? We hear a lot about the potential to generate
:38:54. > :38:59.energy in Scotland, but how far ahead we in terms of developing
:38:59. > :39:04.that technology and having the expertise in terms of the industry?
:39:04. > :39:08.We are doing OK. In terms of in- store capacity in some of the
:39:08. > :39:12.sectors, we are a bit behind parts of England where it is actually
:39:12. > :39:19.happening on a large scale. We've got a lot of the frontier stuff.
:39:19. > :39:22.The thing about this bank is, the evidence as to how it's going to
:39:22. > :39:27.operate has begun to emerge. It's going to be much more mainstream
:39:27. > :39:31.than a lot of people had hoped. It is not going to be pumping money
:39:31. > :39:34.into Frontier technologies. It's going to be lending much in the way
:39:35. > :39:40.that other banks would lend. Looking for a return and sending
:39:40. > :39:48.that we turn back to the UK Treasury. Your union. Is critical
:39:48. > :39:52.to all of this. -- your union point is critical. If they give it to
:39:52. > :39:55.Scotland it's a vote in the union, if they don't, does it look like a
:39:56. > :40:00.slap in the face? It's going to be politics at the end of the day.
:40:00. > :40:04.It's been a mild winter, but with fuel bills having reason sharply in
:40:04. > :40:07.recent years, more than a third of Scots support to be in fuel poverty.
:40:07. > :40:14.MSPs have taken an interest in how this problem can be addressed.
:40:14. > :40:21.Murdo Fraser is with us now. A report has just been published on
:40:21. > :40:28.the issue. How are MSPs going to solve Scotland's fuel poverty
:40:28. > :40:31.problem? As you say, it's a growing problem. In 2010, there was an
:40:31. > :40:41.estimated 28 % of Scottish households in fuel poverty. We
:40:41. > :40:43.
:40:43. > :40:47.think that's gone up to 25 % -- 35 % this year. What are we going to
:40:47. > :40:52.do about it? We made two recommendations in the report.
:40:52. > :40:58.Pressure needs to be brought on the Big Six energy companies to bring
:40:58. > :41:03.down costs. And to rationalise the tariff structure to provide better
:41:03. > :41:07.transparency, making it easier for people to switch. Secondly, we need
:41:07. > :41:11.a one-stop-shop for the current congested picture that there is in
:41:12. > :41:14.terms of energy support packages. There are lots of pots of money
:41:14. > :41:18.available from UK government, Scottish Government and other
:41:18. > :41:22.agencies to help people with things like home insulation. But it's
:41:22. > :41:27.difficult to access information about these. That's why we think we
:41:27. > :41:31.need to simplify the landscape. that first issue, you need co-
:41:31. > :41:34.operation from the Big Six energy companies. One of the things often
:41:34. > :41:40.raised is the fact that those tariffs and charges are so
:41:40. > :41:44.confusing. What did you learn about why the system is so confusing?
:41:44. > :41:50.Every different energy producer has a whole range of tariffs. The other
:41:50. > :41:52.night I was looking at my own energy provider, they have more
:41:52. > :41:56.than six or seven different electricity tariffs. It is pretty
:41:56. > :41:59.confusing within your own provider, trying to find out which is the
:41:59. > :42:03.cheapest tariff, never mind the possibility of switching elsewhere.
:42:03. > :42:08.There are apparently over 400 different energy tariffs across the
:42:08. > :42:11.spectrum. We've said to the energy producers that they need to
:42:11. > :42:15.rationalise this, make it simpler for people to understand how they
:42:15. > :42:18.can get cheaper electricity than they are currently getting. I also
:42:19. > :42:24.know that of Jim and the UK government had been sending similar
:42:24. > :42:28.messages to the energy providers, so I'm hoping they will listen to
:42:28. > :42:32.this combined pressure. Will they listen, because at the end of the
:42:32. > :42:37.day they are responsible not to MSPs, MPs or customers, it is to
:42:37. > :42:41.shareholders? There has been some movement already. We have learned
:42:41. > :42:45.this morning from one of the Scottish power companies that they
:42:45. > :42:49.have substantially rationalised their tariff structure. Steps are
:42:49. > :42:53.already being taken, but we do need to make sure we are not looking at
:42:53. > :42:56.a landscape of more than 400 different tariffs, which makes it
:42:57. > :43:06.extremely difficult for ordinary consumers to work out whether they
:43:06. > :43:12.On that last point, is the confusion all about making bigger
:43:12. > :43:22.profits? Historically it has been. The move by SS he and others to
:43:22. > :43:26.
:43:26. > :43:30.simplify the number of tariffs is a That is all from Politics Scotland
:43:30. > :43:36.for this afternoon. We have given you the news that the Scottish
:43:36. > :43:41.Secretary, Michael Moore, is trying to have his own referendum on