:00:18. > :00:23.Welcome to the programme. Coming up...
:00:23. > :00:25.Caring for their carers, what commitment will was Scottish
:00:25. > :00:30.Government make to protect a vital role?
:00:30. > :00:36.Prisons are full to bursting, but political parties Debate Howard
:00:36. > :00:40.overcrowding should be reduced. -- how overcrowding.
:00:40. > :00:45.And less than a week ago -- to go until the Chancellor's Autumn
:00:45. > :00:49.Statement. Here they are debating the strategy
:00:49. > :00:59.on carers and young carers. They wanted and got how to fund respite
:00:59. > :00:59.
:00:59. > :01:06.care. Campaigners say there is a postcode lottery. It is a critical
:01:06. > :01:11.role, the home carers, isn't it? It saves the Government a lot of money.
:01:11. > :01:17.We are talking about relatives looking after all the parents or
:01:17. > :01:22.somebody with disabilities. -- older parents. They do a crucial
:01:22. > :01:25.service. They enable the person to continue to live at home. If they
:01:25. > :01:31.were not willing to do this then frankly, the rest of us would have
:01:31. > :01:36.to pay and we already know the pressures on the social care budget.
:01:36. > :01:42.Today will focus on respite care. Occasionally, someone looking after
:01:42. > :01:46.an older parent, the parent may go into an institutional setting for a
:01:46. > :01:55.short time to give The Curragh a break, to enable them to go on
:01:55. > :02:00.holiday. -- the carer. The ability and willingness of carers to
:02:00. > :02:04.support relatives may be diminished. We need to talk about how we ensure
:02:04. > :02:09.the state provides some support to carers so that they are able to
:02:09. > :02:15.continue their work. That respite care is critical, isn't it, because
:02:15. > :02:19.it gives them a rest? Will the Scottish Government give a
:02:19. > :02:23.commitment to funding that? This is a classic piece of preventive
:02:23. > :02:27.spending. If the government can provide support for carers, and
:02:27. > :02:34.that is what it is promising, then hopefully that will mean fewer
:02:34. > :02:38.people will have to rely on paid social care. We have seen a report
:02:39. > :02:43.from the Human Rights Commission about the potential limitations of
:02:43. > :02:48.paid-for care and whether it is necessarily of adequate quality.
:02:48. > :02:52.The debate today is saying there has been a commitment to funding,
:02:52. > :02:57.but we feel that local authorities have been cutting it and we do not
:02:57. > :03:02.feel the statistics are as clean as you claim. They are trying to put
:03:02. > :03:11.pressure on the government to put more resources into respite care
:03:11. > :03:21.and living up to saying they will spend now to avoid spending more
:03:21. > :03:22.
:03:22. > :03:32.later on. Let's go to the chamber.
:03:32. > :03:33.
:03:33. > :03:37.The debate going on, the issue of respite care. He has announced an
:03:37. > :03:42.additional �2 million of short- break funds for disabled children
:03:42. > :03:46.and their families. They said earlier the council data was not
:03:46. > :03:49.robust and nine councils had reduced the extent of respite care
:03:49. > :03:58.available. He said the government would try to improve that. That you
:03:58. > :04:02.were he has to save. It will benefit carers and the
:04:02. > :04:10.person they are caring for. The Scottish strategy for autism, which
:04:10. > :04:16.I launched earlier this month, is intended to improve the quality of
:04:16. > :04:21.life for individuals on the autism spectrum and their families. Given
:04:21. > :04:25.the importance of maintaining older people's independence at home or in
:04:26. > :04:30.a homely setting, we have given a commitment that at least 20% of the
:04:30. > :04:36.fund will be dedicated to supporting carers of all the people
:04:36. > :04:41.to continue their caring role. -- older people. This amounts to �14
:04:41. > :04:45.million over a three-year period. This is a significant level of
:04:45. > :04:50.investment that I believe will have a real impact. I also want to
:04:50. > :04:59.provide reassurance that this is an area where we expect the additional
:04:59. > :05:03.resource not to replace existing resources providing -- provided
:05:03. > :05:13.towards carers services. The new guidance issued in this matter
:05:13. > :05:15.
:05:15. > :05:24.makes us very clear. How will this be monitored? What happens out
:05:24. > :05:28.there, that is what really matters. We have 32 local delivery change
:05:28. > :05:34.plans in place. Part of that has to be agreed and signed off between
:05:34. > :05:40.the health board, the local authority and the third sector. And
:05:40. > :05:46.what is contained in that, if the third sector or any other party is
:05:46. > :05:50.not convinced it will deliver, then they are in the position not to
:05:50. > :05:54.sign it off. Clearly, questions will be asked by government as to
:05:54. > :05:58.why that has occurred and money will not be released. It is
:05:58. > :06:08.important that all of the partners involved in making any decisions
:06:08. > :06:12.about how the change fund is moved give an opportunity for all sectors
:06:12. > :06:20.to be engaged in the process. We have made progress in a number of
:06:20. > :06:29.areas in taking forward are Carers' and Young Carers' Strategy. --
:06:29. > :06:33.taking forward the. Carers are a vital to this partnership in taking
:06:33. > :06:36.forward its implementation. Members will want to highlight areas where
:06:36. > :06:42.they believe progress has been made but also, where they wish to see
:06:42. > :06:45.further progress being made. This government is committed to
:06:45. > :06:54.implementing the strategy over the coming years. I move the motion in
:06:54. > :07:02.my name. APPLAUSE.
:07:02. > :07:07.Dr Simpson, you have 10 minutes. Can I be gained by welcoming the
:07:07. > :07:12.opportunity to open and close on this particular debate. It is very
:07:12. > :07:18.important. My colleague will talk in more detail about child and
:07:18. > :07:22.student carers as well as kinship care. We will also talk about
:07:22. > :07:30.examples of where we think there is a gap between the government's
:07:30. > :07:35.aspirations and the current reality. We will cover about carers rights.
:07:35. > :07:42.-- talk about carers' writes. We need to talk about the challenges
:07:42. > :07:52.that carers face and we need to come up with solutions to assist
:07:52. > :07:58.those who care and are cared for. People like a full-time parent and
:07:58. > :08:03.carer, whose son communicates with his sister technology. He says to
:08:03. > :08:09.us that he does not feel an equal partner in care, he does not
:08:09. > :08:17.believe this is a reality at the moment. We need to deal in reality.
:08:17. > :08:22.I fully acknowledge the excellent and ambitious plan of 2010. It is
:08:22. > :08:27.an excellent strategy building on previous plans in 2006, and
:08:27. > :08:31.extending them in an ambitious way. I am concerned as to whether there
:08:31. > :08:40.is a gap between rhetoric and reality. The Minister has indicated
:08:40. > :08:46.we have about 657,000 carers, about 14% of households in Scotland,
:08:46. > :08:54.three-quarters of those are single carers. It is most commonly a
:08:54. > :09:01.parent, but it might be for a spouse, a child or a sibling. They
:09:01. > :09:06.will spend over 50 hours a week in a caring for an individual which is
:09:06. > :09:14.longer than the European working time directive allows. They do that
:09:14. > :09:17.with little financial support. We have a lot of data. It is the 2001
:09:17. > :09:24.can sense his data. I would like to ask questions, which the Minister
:09:24. > :09:32.may choir to take up. The strategy indicated they would take into
:09:32. > :09:37.account the views of carers' organisations. I would like to ask
:09:37. > :09:42.what steps have been taken and how we are getting on with progressing
:09:42. > :09:51.that aspect. I was going to ask about primary care and health
:09:51. > :09:55.professionals but I welcome the Minister' -- minister's statement.
:09:55. > :10:00.There are 28% of households in the most deprived areas with carers as
:10:00. > :10:05.opposed to 13% in the least a deprived. Are we going to ensure
:10:05. > :10:11.the resources are directed to practices like those working in the
:10:11. > :10:15.most deprived areas. Can I ask how many primary care co-ordinators are
:10:15. > :10:22.now working of health boards, such as happened in South Lanarkshire
:10:22. > :10:30.and the Borders? Has that been extended? Can I asked for the
:10:30. > :10:35.Government response to the results of the Moffatt programme? It had a
:10:35. > :10:41.number of recommendations and I wonder what the response will be.
:10:41. > :10:46.37% of carers are over 60. For people over 60, many will be
:10:46. > :10:50.suffering from long-term conditions. The care assessment which was
:10:50. > :10:57.brought in by the 2000 to act is a fundamental part of supporting
:10:57. > :11:02.carers. Not all of them will seek assistance but they must be offered
:11:02. > :11:05.it. There are still barriers recognised to that assessment --
:11:05. > :11:11.assessment, that middle-managers are not keen to assess carers
:11:11. > :11:16.because it will highlight more need and create a financial problems. We
:11:16. > :11:23.know 70% of carers will hide the fact their health is suffering. A
:11:23. > :11:26.survey published next week says 79% of Scots in the survey say their
:11:26. > :11:33.health is getting worse and their mental and physical health is
:11:33. > :11:38.suffering as a result of their caring. That is a sad fact. It
:11:38. > :11:43.behoves us to ensure assessments are carried out. Many carers will
:11:43. > :11:48.be isolated and will experience poverty of opportunity and
:11:48. > :11:57.difficulties with it the financial aspect and impact of caring,
:11:57. > :12:01.requiring additional heating, special diets, home refurbishment,
:12:01. > :12:11.more on transport. His comprehensive assessment is
:12:11. > :12:16.fundamental. Would Dr Simpson sure might regret that the carers'
:12:16. > :12:22.alliance is such a pitiful sum and excludes elderly carers? --
:12:22. > :12:26.allowance. I agree with the member on that. I would add that the
:12:26. > :12:29.Welfare Reform Bill is not going to help. Carers will lose their
:12:30. > :12:35.allowances with people being excluded from the disability
:12:35. > :12:40.allowance. There will be more problems coming our way. On one
:12:40. > :12:45.health question I would like to ask the Minister specifically, that the
:12:45. > :12:50.strategy talks about encouraging carers to get the flu jab. What has
:12:50. > :12:57.been done to promote that? I have not seen anything in the way of
:12:57. > :13:02.advertising and I know many carers are unaware of that. Care should be
:13:02. > :13:07.personalised and that carers -- and carers and those cared for should
:13:07. > :13:15.be treated as equals. I know the government has done a considerable
:13:15. > :13:19.amount to try and engage carers. One question that I asked of the
:13:19. > :13:23.First Minister earlier this year was about emergency plans. I
:13:23. > :13:27.welcome the work that has been done, but I think we have a long way to
:13:27. > :13:33.go. If I may just look at learning disability to demonstrate how we
:13:33. > :13:39.are feeling, the Scottish Consortium for Learning Disability
:13:39. > :13:46.said there were over 7,000 adults known to local authorities in
:13:46. > :13:52.Scotland who live with a carer. This represented about 48% of
:13:52. > :13:55.adults for whom this information was reported. There are 4,000
:13:55. > :14:02.individuals in a specialist care and that is fine, but at this
:14:02. > :14:05.moment, there are 1,000 individuals with learning disability of these -
:14:05. > :14:10.- disabilities in elderly residential homes whose care
:14:10. > :14:15.packages are not suitable for a young people with learning
:14:16. > :14:20.disabilities, 400 of whom are under 65 and many, if not all, have been
:14:20. > :14:25.placed there as a result of a failure to have effective emergency
:14:25. > :14:29.planning. Once they are admitted they do not come out of residential
:14:29. > :14:39.care. I would ask in addressing this that has been at that very
:14:39. > :14:39.
:14:39. > :14:43.carefully. We are all agreed that there should be a much greater
:14:43. > :14:48.level of anticipate any care. Although this could be simple it is
:14:48. > :14:53.not happening. We know the opposite is happening. The threshold for
:14:53. > :14:57.community care packages is rising year-on-year. You have to be very
:14:57. > :15:01.seriously needing care before you get into a care package. The
:15:01. > :15:11.opposite of what we all want is happening, driven by the budgetary
:15:11. > :15:29.
:15:29. > :15:34.Half-a-million pounds will be spent as a visit was made. Last night, Mr
:15:34. > :15:41.MacAskill was asked why he had not built himself out of the problem.
:15:41. > :15:51.We have invested over three errors �60 million in the present state --
:15:51. > :15:53.
:15:53. > :15:57.�360 million. Prisoners do not come free. It is a time of austerity.
:15:57. > :16:01.Everybody's priority is to look after pensioners, as well as make
:16:01. > :16:06.sure we have sufficient capacity for prisoners. There is something
:16:06. > :16:15.wrong. Far too many are going to prison, but we have the lowest
:16:15. > :16:22.recorded crime figures for many years.
:16:22. > :16:25.The Justice Secretary there. Let's cross to Holyrood. We can join the
:16:25. > :16:35.leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats and somebody from the
:16:35. > :16:38.
:16:38. > :16:41.Conservatives. I was impressed with the announcement. We will have a
:16:41. > :16:46.smoother transition from criminals coming out of prison and back into
:16:46. > :16:56.the community. Often, they can go back to their old ways and get into
:16:56. > :16:56.
:16:56. > :17:06.crime again. I think it is a good stepping the right direction.
:17:06. > :17:11.look at the issue of overcrowding. Crime is down, we have got shorter
:17:11. > :17:20.sentences, and we are looking at other options. Why our prisons are
:17:20. > :17:23.overcrowded? -- why our prisons are overcrowded? It will take a bit of
:17:24. > :17:27.time to work. If we have these rehabilitation programmes that will
:17:27. > :17:32.change behaviour and cut reoffending, it will take a bit of
:17:32. > :17:36.time to cut through. It is much more expensive to have people in
:17:36. > :17:44.prison. That is why we are in favour of community operas, of
:17:44. > :17:48.rehabilitation. That changes long- term behaviour. -- community
:17:48. > :17:56.options. The was saying the abolition of short-term sentences
:17:56. > :18:00.is not the answer. Do you think community options are viable?
:18:00. > :18:10.focus has to be on rehabilitation. That can be in prison or in the
:18:10. > :18:20.community. Our system is failing now in rehabilitating offenders in
:18:20. > :18:22.
:18:22. > :18:31.prison. Reoffending rates speak for themselves. They are very high. Ms
:18:31. > :18:34.we can cut them reoffending rates, we will not cut crime figures.
:18:34. > :18:38.you not admit that the Scottish Government have a very difficult
:18:38. > :18:44.job when it comes to pensioners or prisoners? The public wants money
:18:44. > :18:48.to go to pensioners and housing and schools. The obligation on the
:18:48. > :18:53.Scottish Government is to make sure it provides enough prison spaces
:18:53. > :18:58.and enough punishment options that the court to require so that if the
:18:58. > :19:02.courts determine someone should be in prison or punished, it is
:19:02. > :19:11.imperative that there is enough funding in place to accommodate
:19:11. > :19:15.those prisoners. It is not the job of Government to say someone should
:19:15. > :19:20.not be punished in the wishes of the court. That is an obligation
:19:20. > :19:28.which I believe the Government are failing on. They are not providing
:19:28. > :19:34.sufficient prison spaces. There could -- if you speak to victims of
:19:34. > :19:38.crime, I believe most people believe that someone committing a
:19:38. > :19:47.crime should be sent to prison in line with what the court said.
:19:48. > :19:54.looks like the Scottish governments are putting money into prisons.
:19:54. > :19:58.looks like the money is there. are putting money into prisons. We
:19:58. > :20:02.will have to have prison available for those who need to go to prison.
:20:02. > :20:06.The real focus needs to be on making sure there is a proper work
:20:06. > :20:12.programme for those who are in prison. Currently, there is only
:20:12. > :20:22.one place for every 80 long-term prisoners in a proper word
:20:22. > :20:30.programme in prison. -- every eight long-term prisoner. We need to get
:20:30. > :20:40.them working and it will be easier for them to fit back into society.
:20:40. > :20:43.
:20:43. > :20:45.We also want to look at payment by results, social bombs. - - bonds. I
:20:45. > :20:50.think that is the kind of thing the Scottish Government should be
:20:50. > :21:00.looking at. That is interesting. Ken Clarke has been looking at
:21:00. > :21:01.
:21:01. > :21:05.those other options. Annabel Goldie aim was not too keen on those --
:21:05. > :21:09.Annabel Goldie was not too keen on those. We all agree that
:21:09. > :21:17.rehabilitation should be the focus of our justice system. Where we are
:21:17. > :21:22.failing in Scotland is that reoffending, it is with properly
:21:22. > :21:26.rehabilitating prisoners. That is what Ken Clarke has said and what
:21:26. > :21:29.we have said. There is no difference in terms of what we're
:21:29. > :21:36.saying in terms of focus. The Government should be focusing more
:21:36. > :21:43.on making sharp while people are in prison, people are being
:21:44. > :21:50.rehabilitated. OK. Thank you very much.
:21:50. > :21:55.You are watching Politics Scotland. Still to come: The threat of
:21:56. > :22:02.independence is causing Warriors for people who want to invest.
:22:02. > :22:07.-- causing worries. The latest twist in the row between
:22:07. > :22:12.Edinburgh and London. That is coming up shortly. First, the
:22:12. > :22:22.President of the Students' Society at St Andrews University who burnt
:22:22. > :22:22.
:22:22. > :22:26.an effigy of Barack Obama has issued an apology. Our reporter is
:22:26. > :22:32.in St Andrews, where the burning of the lethargy took place.
:22:32. > :22:37.The meeting was taking place here of the University's Conservatives
:22:37. > :22:40.Association. A bonfire was taking place and an effigy of the
:22:41. > :22:45.President ended up on the bonfire. One student said they were very
:22:45. > :22:50.surprised by what had taken place. Political condemnation has been
:22:50. > :22:57.swift. One MSP told us that what happened here went beyond a student
:22:57. > :23:03.prank. I was shocked to learn what had happened. It sends a completely
:23:03. > :23:07.wrong message. These people are going to one of the most
:23:07. > :23:10.prestigious universities in Scotland. It is renowned all over
:23:11. > :23:17.the world. They are behaving in such a fashion. Most ordinary
:23:17. > :23:22.people will be discussed it with this behaviour and the undertones.
:23:22. > :23:25.Scottish Conservatives have also condemned the burning of the effigy,
:23:25. > :23:29.and student union here have moved quickly to distance the student
:23:29. > :23:33.body from what happened here. It says it deplores the burning of
:23:33. > :23:37.effigies as part of political protest, regardless of who they are
:23:37. > :23:43.meant to represent. It said it does not believe what happened here was
:23:43. > :23:46.racially motivated, but finds it disgusting. The President of the
:23:46. > :23:50.Conservative Students' Association has issued an apology, saying what
:23:50. > :23:55.happened was stupid. He is due to meet with university bosses later
:23:55. > :23:59.today. A disciplinary officer will be present, and further action may
:23:59. > :24:06.follow. Let's discuss this further with
:24:06. > :24:09.John Curtis. Very embarrassing for the Conservatives. They have
:24:09. > :24:15.distanced themselves from these actions, but some people will be
:24:15. > :24:21.saying, same old Tories. I was tempted to say that students will
:24:21. > :24:25.be students, and they will be the occasional politician who has done
:24:25. > :24:29.things they regret. I think David Cameron and George Osborne have
:24:29. > :24:37.things they do not want the press to recover from their past. The
:24:37. > :24:44.problem here is the resonance. The burning of somebody from an Afro-
:24:44. > :24:54.Caribbean background remind people of the coupe looks clown. -- the
:24:54. > :25:01.
:25:01. > :25:08.Cook looks clown. I am sure these students will make some action. It
:25:08. > :25:13.was particularly in apposite. Awkward for the university. A of
:25:13. > :25:23.course. It is embarrassing for St Andrews. It is a prestigious
:25:23. > :25:34.
:25:34. > :25:37.university, allegedly, this publicity does not do any good.
:25:37. > :25:43.let's go back to our discussion about prisons. It was interesting
:25:43. > :25:53.to see Ken MacAskill struggling to explain why prisons are overcrowded.
:25:53. > :25:53.
:25:53. > :25:57.Yes. It is interesting. One possible argument might be, why is
:25:57. > :26:03.the crime rate down? Because more people are imprisoned. That is one
:26:03. > :26:06.conclusion people might draw. We have seen both north and south of
:26:06. > :26:15.the border, administrations come to office with a commitment to try to
:26:15. > :26:22.reduce the size of the prison population. Ken Clarke was trying
:26:22. > :26:32.to deal with this by trying to reduce the prison population. In
:26:32. > :26:34.
:26:34. > :26:41.England and Wales, the prison population is at a record high. The
:26:41. > :26:44.truth is, the general population are very keen to see people who
:26:44. > :26:54.have committed crimes go to prison and serve the length of their
:26:54. > :26:59.sentences. They do not want to spend money on prisons, either. If
:26:59. > :27:03.we do want to send people to prison, we have to pay for it. Otherwise,
:27:03. > :27:10.we have to accept prison may not be the best place to send people long
:27:10. > :27:13.times -- long time. Thank you. David Cameron must change course
:27:13. > :27:18.and his economic strategy or risk a lost generation of unemployed
:27:18. > :27:23.youngsters becoming a symbol of his time in office, Ed Miliband has
:27:23. > :27:29.said. The leaders clashed in the Commons for the first time since
:27:29. > :27:35.last year's figures showed 1,000,016-24 year-olds are out of
:27:35. > :27:44.work. In a Labour Government, youth unemployment never reached one
:27:44. > :27:50.million. It is taking him 18 months to get to that figure. Since he did
:27:50. > :28:00.not answer the question, the reality is, since he scrapped the
:28:00. > :28:04.Future Jobs Fund, long-term youth unemployment has risen by 77 %. Now
:28:04. > :28:12.can he tell us what has happened to long-term youth unemployment since
:28:12. > :28:16.he introduced his work programme in June? Let me just repeat, youth
:28:16. > :28:23.unemployment up 40 % under a Labour Government, and let me remind him
:28:23. > :28:29.of something his brother said last week. He said, this Government did
:28:29. > :28:39.not invent the problem of youth unemployment. We should have that
:28:39. > :28:41.
:28:41. > :28:48.sort of Camembert from this brother. - - candour. The work programme is
:28:48. > :28:51.helping 50 % more people than a Future Jobs Fund. It will help
:28:51. > :28:56.120,000 young people this year, with a Future Jobs Fund only held
:28:56. > :29:01.80,000 people. The waiting time for the most needy young people will be
:29:01. > :29:04.half of the waiting time there was under their Future Jobs Fund. Those
:29:04. > :29:08.who were not in education, employment and training will get
:29:08. > :29:12.help. I would have thought the members of the Said wants to hear
:29:12. > :29:16.what we do to help young people. They will get help within three
:29:16. > :29:21.months, rather than six months. The absolute keep his that because we
:29:21. > :29:26.are paying by results, the work programme will help those who need
:29:26. > :29:30.the most help. The Future Jobs Fund but a lot of graduates into public
:29:30. > :29:34.sector jobs and was five times more expensive than the alternative.
:29:34. > :29:40.That is why we skirted and replaced it with something better. Is the
:29:40. > :29:48.Prime Minister aware that the turnout in the strike ballot was 32
:29:48. > :29:53.%, 31 % and 25 % respectively? Will he agree that any striker has the
:29:53. > :30:03.right to strike? But should not engage in mass action unless he has
:30:03. > :30:03.
:30:03. > :30:07.the support of the majority of the Union? As I said, it is wrong that
:30:07. > :30:12.these strikes are going ahead when negotiations are under way. It is
:30:12. > :30:16.wrong to strike and close classrooms and essential services,
:30:16. > :30:25.but it is being done on the basis of these turn out, just one quarter
:30:25. > :30:29.of Unison members voted to strike. 23 % of those balloted at you like
:30:29. > :30:32.to voted in favour. We know why they will not condemn the strike.
:30:32. > :30:37.We have the figures today from -- we have the figures of where they
:30:37. > :30:47.get their money from. In his first year as leader of the party, 86 %
:30:47. > :30:52.
:30:52. > :30:59.of Labour's donations came from the Under the last Labour leader it was
:30:59. > :31:03.56%. It is about the only thing he has improved. I understand the
:31:03. > :31:09.Prime Minister is having trouble connecting with women and is
:31:09. > :31:13.seeking advice. Given that female unemployment has increased by 20%,
:31:13. > :31:16.given that women have been hardest hit by public sector cuts and the
:31:16. > :31:22.VAT rise and given they have benefited least from his tax
:31:22. > :31:27.giveaways, would he not agree it is time for another plan which
:31:27. > :31:33.reverted the VAT increase and insured benefits increase in line
:31:33. > :31:39.with inflation? I do not agree. Every family in Brighton is facing
:31:39. > :31:42.a difficult time. -- in Britain. If you looked at what we are looking
:31:42. > :31:49.at in terms of trying to help women to the million people we have
:31:49. > :31:54.lifted out of tax, many of them we are -- are women. In terms of
:31:54. > :31:58.additional child care, but is helping women. Look at the extra
:31:58. > :32:08.hours we are giving to it too, at the three and four year-old, that
:32:08. > :32:10.
:32:10. > :32:17.is helping women. -- to two, three and four year olds.
:32:17. > :32:24.We will also look at the impact of the independence referendum on
:32:24. > :32:29.investment. All eyes on the economy today? The overriding theme at the
:32:29. > :32:34.moment, because of the economic climate, is the state of the
:32:34. > :32:38.economy. Whether there are signs of recovery, we are less than a week
:32:38. > :32:42.away from the Chancellor's autumn statement, where most people will
:32:42. > :32:46.think he will say that getting the debt under control is not getting
:32:46. > :32:50.done as quickly as they would like. He will be forced to revise
:32:50. > :32:54.downwards his figures for economic growth. We have had a couple of
:32:54. > :33:00.straws in the wind. Earlier this week the Prime Minister addressed
:33:00. > :33:04.the CBI, where he said blatantly that we are not where we want to be
:33:04. > :33:09.at the moment. That was delaying a bit of rounded to say that the
:33:09. > :33:17.growth figures are going to be worse than predicted. -- laying a
:33:17. > :33:21.bit of ground. What the Prime Minister was doing was saying that
:33:21. > :33:25.there are tough times to come because they will have seen the
:33:25. > :33:29.crucial figures ahead of next week's statement. So there are
:33:29. > :33:37.signs that the political and economic cycles are out of sync?
:33:37. > :33:40.Yes, this could cause problems. It had always been predicated that the
:33:40. > :33:50.coalition government would get rid of the structural debt over the
:33:50. > :33:50.
:33:50. > :33:56.lifetime of the Parliament. The idea was, at 2014, there may be
:33:56. > :34:03.some financial goodies to be given away. That does not appear that it
:34:03. > :34:07.will happen. Rather than the Chancellor saying that we can give
:34:07. > :34:17.tax cuts he will say there is some way to go and bad debt reduction is
:34:17. > :34:24.still to come. His argument will be that you need to stick with us to
:34:24. > :34:29.get the job done. More concern about the independence referendum?
:34:29. > :34:36.For several months we have had government ministers at Westminster
:34:36. > :34:39.saying to the SNP and Alex Salmond, you want a referendum, we know you
:34:39. > :34:45.have a mandate and the majority of seats in the Scottish Parliament,
:34:45. > :34:49.just go ahead and call it. We have heard these calls from the Scottish
:34:49. > :34:54.Secretary and the Prime Minister. Now, the Chief Secretary to the
:34:54. > :34:59.Treasury, Danny Alexander, has waded into the row. His argument is
:34:59. > :35:07.all this talk about referendum is all very destabilising for the
:35:07. > :35:11.economy, not just for Scotland, but in England as well. He has been
:35:11. > :35:20.making that call in an interview this morning, saying to the SNP,
:35:20. > :35:23.you want a referendum, go-ahead and collar. -- go ahead and call it.
:35:23. > :35:26.There is evidence this is worrying people who want to invest in
:35:26. > :35:29.Scotland. The best thing to do is for the government to come out with
:35:29. > :35:33.their plans on a referendum and bring it forward as quickly as
:35:33. > :35:38.possible so we can clarify the issue and get on with the job of
:35:38. > :35:42.supporting jobs and growth in Scotland. That is what the UK
:35:42. > :35:47.Government is doing now to try and support growth in Scotland. What
:35:47. > :35:53.has been the reaction in Scotland? Not surprisingly, the SNP are not
:35:53. > :35:59.willing to fall into the political trap. They know that it to some
:35:59. > :36:03.extent, while they equivocate they hold the political initiative. John
:36:03. > :36:07.Sweeney taking issue with Danny Alexander. He says there is no
:36:07. > :36:12.indication that the fact that we don't have a clear referendum date
:36:12. > :36:20.is damaging the economy. He points to inward investment in Scotland.
:36:20. > :36:23.He says to the chief secretary of the Treasury, you've got it wrong.
:36:23. > :36:26.The Chancellor suggested that the independence referendum was putting
:36:26. > :36:30.companies off investing in Scotland and could not name a single company
:36:30. > :36:40.that had suggested that. That is contrasted with a long list of
:36:40. > :36:45.
:36:45. > :36:54.companies, which should be she, Amis on -- Mitsubishi, Hammers on -
:36:54. > :37:00.- and was on, who have invested in Scotland. All eyes will be on the
:37:00. > :37:05.autumn statement. It is very important, by George Osborne, on
:37:05. > :37:15.Tuesday next week, giving revised growth figures. It is likely he is
:37:15. > :37:16.
:37:16. > :37:20.going to say it will be a long and hard task to get debt down.
:37:20. > :37:30.The Scottish Government has taken steps to protect freedom of
:37:30. > :37:34.expression under plans to tackle religious hatred. The move came as
:37:34. > :37:41.a bill to prevent violence at football games passed its latest
:37:41. > :37:45.parliamentary hurdle. An update from the Scottish Government, today
:37:45. > :37:51.they have announced new funding for community-based education
:37:51. > :37:54.initiatives to tackle sectarianism. It is an attempt by the Community
:37:54. > :37:58.Safety Minister to demonstrate the government is interested in
:37:58. > :38:04.tackling the wider issue of sectarianism as well as threatening
:38:04. > :38:13.behaviour associated with football matches and indeed, online, Terry.
:38:13. > :38:15.Those issues are the focus of the controversial legislation passed at
:38:15. > :38:25.the scrutiny staged here at Holyrood yesterday, but not without
:38:25. > :38:26.
:38:26. > :38:31.amendment. Let's talk more about that with these members of the
:38:31. > :38:41.committee looking at legislation. In what way is the build different
:38:41. > :38:42.
:38:42. > :38:48.following the changes? There have been some changes. A lot of people
:38:48. > :38:54.express eight freedom of expression issue. That was brought forward. On
:38:54. > :38:59.top of that, a requirement for a review after two seasons to see how
:38:59. > :39:05.the legislation is being enacted and the effect and evaluation of it.
:39:05. > :39:10.On top of that, an undertaking to widen the second offence to cover
:39:10. > :39:18.all protected categories of the qualities shirt. Does that make it
:39:18. > :39:24.palatable to Labour? This bill is still riddled with confusion and
:39:24. > :39:27.even if you take specific amendments passed yesterday, the
:39:27. > :39:33.freedom of information clause only applies to section 5 am not to the
:39:33. > :39:40.offensive behaviour part in section one. -- and not. That leads to
:39:40. > :39:44.confusion. The review section, which is at to football seasons,
:39:44. > :39:49.people were looking for a shorter period. Serious concerns remain
:39:49. > :39:52.both in the Parliament and in the country. If there are serious
:39:52. > :39:56.concerns and you are genuine in raising them, why did you not bring
:39:56. > :40:01.forward amendments yesterday? Why did you sit on your hands and
:40:01. > :40:08.abstain in the business of the committee? Labour interrogated
:40:08. > :40:15.robustly the bill as a stage to evidence was heard -- as stage two
:40:15. > :40:22.evidence was heard. I have not had any meeting with Roseanna
:40:22. > :40:27.Cunningham since June. I have tabled twenty-one parliamentary
:40:27. > :40:32.questions asking what meetings the Minister has held. If the
:40:33. > :40:39.government was serious about getting support for this bill they
:40:39. > :40:43.would have built their consensus. The First Minister said he wanted
:40:43. > :40:53.all sides to back this. Why has he and other ministers have failed to
:40:53. > :40:54.
:40:55. > :40:59.build that? He decided to withdraw amendments to continue dialogue. He
:40:59. > :41:04.is someone who is not convinced but he is prepared to engage in
:41:04. > :41:08.dialogue. James Kelly says he has tabled parliamentary questions but
:41:08. > :41:13.yesterday he sat on his hands for two hours without asking a single
:41:13. > :41:21.question to the Minister in front of him. That is not constructive or
:41:21. > :41:28.building a consensus. We are prepared to listen. What is it
:41:28. > :41:36.about this build my you cannot support? What are the key flaws's -
:41:36. > :41:40.- floors? There is existing legislation in place which we have
:41:40. > :41:45.seen used effectively over the summer. Yesterday it was shown
:41:45. > :41:50.there have been 400 convictions in the last year for religiously
:41:50. > :41:55.aggravated offences. We see adequate legislation in place. In
:41:55. > :41:59.terms of the bill, one of the central problems is that the
:41:59. > :42:04.Minister has been unable to explain what would be an offence under the
:42:04. > :42:12.bill. They are looking for the police and prosecutors to fill the
:42:12. > :42:22.gaps. Some offensive behaviour would be acceptable, Mr Yossel has
:42:22. > :42:27.
:42:27. > :42:31.said. -- Yusef. He is not giving me an opportunity to persuade him of
:42:31. > :42:38.the case. A third of the statistics were related to football and
:42:38. > :42:42.offensive behaviour. You have not even touched on that. People do not
:42:42. > :42:52.elected to come to this chamber and say nothing. That is the problem
:42:52. > :42:54.
:42:54. > :43:03.with the party. Only 13% related to the Football season. They were
:43:03. > :43:07.prosecuted. People do not accept -- expect MSPs to turn a blind eye to
:43:07. > :43:13.legislation which will be passed which would make a bad law and make
:43:13. > :43:20.the situation worse. We have been making the case constructively over
:43:20. > :43:27.the weeks. Not constructively at all! It is clear that consensus has
:43:27. > :43:32.broken down in the Parliament and the country. The Parliament was --
:43:32. > :43:39.must rebuild the consensus. Are you going to make fresh efforts to
:43:39. > :43:44.bring Labour on board? The door is always open. I do not know if James
:43:44. > :43:54.Kelly has approached the Minister. Is there something by you can say
:43:54. > :43:54.
:43:54. > :43:57.that might persuade James Kelly? -- that you can say. We are being as
:43:57. > :44:01.open about the legislation as possible. Come forward with
:44:01. > :44:09.amendments, let's see what we can add and clarify the confusion that
:44:09. > :44:15.exists. This legislation has not been completed. There is a final
:44:15. > :44:18.stage when the whole chamber will debate the merits or otherwise of
:44:18. > :44:25.this bill and then take a final vote before Parliament breaks for
:44:25. > :44:29.Christmas. At Holyrood this morning the
:44:29. > :44:36.economy committee were taking evidence on the state of Scottish
:44:36. > :44:42.tourism. As you would expect from a sector that contributes a lot,
:44:42. > :44:47.there was talk from the chat -- about the challenges ahead. MSPs
:44:47. > :44:56.were asking hotelier's if we can benefit from the Olympics. --
:44:56. > :45:02.I think the Olympics will be a challenge. It has always caused
:45:02. > :45:07.problems. As for the Ryder Cup, it is how we do it and how we tried
:45:07. > :45:11.and extend holidays each side of it, and how we inspire people to see
:45:11. > :45:21.Scotland as the home of Gulf, so we have opportunities but also a
:45:21. > :45:23.
:45:23. > :45:28.threat. In my view, there will be less of a general leisure business.
:45:28. > :45:34.It will be more people who want to see the Olympics. We should not
:45:34. > :45:43.accept that there will be less of an inbound tourism. Perhaps the
:45:43. > :45:48.marketing approach should be to say to other parts of England, 78 % of
:45:48. > :45:52.our business comes from the UK, so we should concentrate and perhaps
:45:52. > :45:55.the south-east of England and saying to them, if you wish to
:45:55. > :45:59.explore Scotland at this time, this is the best opportunity will have
:45:59. > :46:03.to do so. The focus shifted to whether it is beneficial to have
:46:03. > :46:09.London as the travel hub for Scotland, and the role of training
:46:09. > :46:15.was discussed. Maybe we have it wrong. Maybe we should look at some
:46:15. > :46:25.of our European partners and say, that is the way to do it. If
:46:25. > :46:29.they're going to have this punitive tax, customers will avoid it. We
:46:29. > :46:35.want Connectivity, fast trains and airlines that connect. Heathrow is
:46:35. > :46:41.under threat. People coming out of higher or further education are
:46:41. > :46:48.generally not fit for purpose, and one thing we try to do his farm --
:46:48. > :46:52.form links with colleges and universities to make sure there is
:46:52. > :46:56.a programme which is greater than the normal one week's work
:46:56. > :47:02.experience programme. There were calls from the Highlands for a more
:47:02. > :47:09.joined up approach. We have three very different destinations here.
:47:09. > :47:14.We have destinations a length and breadth of the country. There is a
:47:14. > :47:17.feeling we do not have a coherent strategy. Calls for change on
:47:17. > :47:27.broadband and mobile phone coverage. We are finding it extremely
:47:27. > :47:28.
:47:28. > :47:34.difficult to communicate to that changing customer. We are working
:47:34. > :47:37.with one hand, and with both hands in some areas, tied behind our
:47:37. > :47:43.backs. There is a lot of conversation about broadband roll-
:47:43. > :47:48.out. We would like to see the target brought forward. I think the
:47:48. > :47:52.targets are particularly lazy. We watch to see mobile in there.
:47:52. > :47:57.Looking to the future, Edinburgh believes their growth will be
:47:57. > :48:06.centred around the festivals. are looking at how we create a year
:48:06. > :48:11.round market. We have a significant break with our festivals. -- we
:48:11. > :48:21.have a significant peak with our festivals in August, particularly.
:48:21. > :48:25.
:48:25. > :48:31.It is important that we do not forget we have a year round
:48:31. > :48:37.cultural excellence. We should use the first was as a lever.
:48:37. > :48:47.Scottish Government has a target to increase tourism by 50 % by 2015.
:48:47. > :48:52.
:48:53. > :49:02.This was questioned. The number of trips was over 7 million in 2006. I
:49:03. > :49:12.
:49:12. > :49:18.come back to the question, the target is not achievable. I suspect
:49:18. > :49:24.if you look at any industrial sector in Scotland or the UK or the
:49:24. > :49:32.world, a 50 % growth target in three years is a huge ambition. It
:49:32. > :49:41.said as an ambition to go for. latest from the economy committee.
:49:41. > :49:49.Let's pick up on some issues. John Curtis is still here. Let's look at
:49:49. > :49:59.the new referendum row. Can he Alexander waded into that. It is
:49:59. > :49:59.
:49:59. > :50:06.ongoing. -- can he Alexander. are two parts to this. The
:50:06. > :50:10.opposition parties saying they once the referendum sooner. I think if
:50:10. > :50:18.Mr Salmond was to take them up on the offer, they would be somewhat
:50:18. > :50:27.scared. There is not much semblance of much in the wake of a united
:50:27. > :50:37.campaign. Some people want them to go away and think about it. I am
:50:37. > :50:39.
:50:39. > :50:44.not sure that that is what this referendum particularly airless.
:50:44. > :50:50.The allegation that the prospect of the referendum is beginning to
:50:50. > :50:53.damage Scotland's economy, the Chancellor has not brought up much
:50:53. > :51:03.of the work of detail, but it is an illustration of the issue of
:51:03. > :51:06.
:51:06. > :51:12.whether or not Scotland will be worse off under independence.
:51:12. > :51:17.week is a big week. We have George Osborne's statement on Tuesday. The
:51:17. > :51:23.big strike in a generation on a Wednesday. Again, the economy
:51:23. > :51:29.dominates. The Autumn Statement will be crucial for a couple of
:51:29. > :51:34.things. The Government will probably have to admit it will take
:51:34. > :51:43.longer to get rid of the deficit. The problem for most people is not
:51:43. > :51:46.the size of the deficit, it is the fact that unemployment is rising as
:51:46. > :51:51.a result of the fact that we have relatively low growth. But also a
:51:51. > :51:56.maze -- that also means little in the way of rising living standards.
:51:56. > :52:00.I think the Government really has to worry that by 2014, 2015, the
:52:00. > :52:10.public will say, we have had the pain, now where is the game, and
:52:10. > :52:13.the Government will be in trouble. I think the Government will have to
:52:13. > :52:18.admit they are not getting the growth they wanted. The following
:52:18. > :52:24.day, those public sector strikes. They meant to be about pensions,
:52:24. > :52:28.but I think in truth it is about the public sector expressing
:52:28. > :52:38.concern about the pain it is suffering more generally, the
:52:38. > :52:38.
:52:38. > :52:42.public sector pay freeze and the pensions. Also, fewer jobs. It is