:00:15. > :00:29.announces more cash for disadvantaged pupils,
:00:30. > :00:50.MPs told the fiscal framework is a new for Scotland.
:00:51. > :00:53.The UK and Scottish governments finally reached agreement yesterday
:00:54. > :00:55.on the fiscal framework - which underpins the transfer
:00:56. > :00:57.of further tax and welfare powers to Holyrood.
:00:58. > :00:59.A short while ago the Scottish Secretary David Mundell confirmed
:01:00. > :01:01.that deal in a statement to the House of Commons.
:01:02. > :01:09.This is a truly historic deal which will pave the way for the Scottish
:01:10. > :01:12.parliament to become one of the most powerful and accountable devolved
:01:13. > :01:19.parliaments in the world. We have respected all the principles set out
:01:20. > :01:23.in the cross-party Smith agreement and a livered deal that is fair for
:01:24. > :01:29.Scotland and fear for the whole United Kingdom. As Lord Smith
:01:30. > :01:34.himself yesterday evening, when the Smith agreement was passed to the
:01:35. > :01:39.Prime Minister and First Minister, both gave their word that they would
:01:40. > :01:44.deliver it into law. They have met that promise in full. Scotland's two
:01:45. > :01:49.governments will give more details in coming days but I would like to
:01:50. > :01:55.set out a few key elements of the deal. The Scottish Government will
:01:56. > :01:58.retain all of the revenue from the taxes that are being devolved or
:01:59. > :02:02.assigned, including around 12 billion of around income tax and
:02:03. > :02:06.around V -- 5 billion of VAT. The block grant of the Scottish
:02:07. > :02:11.Government will be adjusted to reflect the devolution and
:02:12. > :02:14.assignment of further taxes and the devolution of further spending
:02:15. > :02:23.responsibilities. We have kept our commitment to keep the Barnett
:02:24. > :02:26.formula, extending this to cover areas of devolved welfare. The tax
:02:27. > :02:39.we will use the UK was my government 's preferred funding model.
:02:40. > :02:44.That is fair to Scotland and fear to the rest of the United Kingdom.
:02:45. > :02:50.However, for a transitional period covering the next Scottish
:02:51. > :02:52.parliament, the government have agreed to share these risks as these
:02:53. > :02:57.powers are implemented. Specifically the Scottish Government will hold
:02:58. > :03:00.the economic risk, well the UK Government will hold the population
:03:01. > :03:05.risks. The Scottish Government will not receive a penny less than the
:03:06. > :03:11.Barnett funding over the spending review simply due to different
:03:12. > :03:19.population growth. And by the end of 2021, a review of the framework will
:03:20. > :03:23.be formed by an independent report so that we can ensure that we are
:03:24. > :03:25.continuing to deliver Smith in full, with the Scottish Government
:03:26. > :03:31.responsible for the full range of virgin teas and risks associated
:03:32. > :03:34.with its new responsibilities. We have also agreed that the Scottish
:03:35. > :03:42.Government will have additional new borrowing powers. It will invest up
:03:43. > :03:45.to 3 billion in fatal infrastructure. In line with the
:03:46. > :03:51.recommendation of the Smith agreement, we will provide the
:03:52. > :03:56.government ?2 million share to set up the new powers it will control.
:03:57. > :04:00.The government has delivered more powers to the Scottish people,
:04:01. > :04:05.ensuring that they have one of the most powerful devolved governments
:04:06. > :04:09.in the world and economic and national security that comes with
:04:10. > :04:14.being part of our United Kingdom. That is what we have agreed, and
:04:15. > :04:20.that is what we have delivered in full. Now that we have agreed this
:04:21. > :04:24.historic deal, the conversation must move on to how these new powers are
:04:25. > :04:30.to be used. The Scottish Government will have extensive powers on tax,
:04:31. > :04:34.welfare and spending. It will have control over income tax and be able
:04:35. > :04:38.to change the rates and thresholds. It will be able to create new
:04:39. > :04:43.benefits and of course the permanence of the Scottish permanent
:04:44. > :04:48.-- parliament as book with without any doubt. The people of Scotland
:04:49. > :04:53.voted for these new powers and they deserve to hear from the parties in
:04:54. > :04:59.Scotland how they will use them. New powers that infused Welp can broaden
:05:00. > :05:00.the economy and population. And bring greater opportunity and
:05:01. > :05:01.prosperity. I'm joined for the afternoon
:05:02. > :05:04.by Moray Macdonald, who is a former Director of the Scottish
:05:05. > :05:22.Conservatives, and is now a PR I know people are gripped by this.
:05:23. > :05:26.You know get Scotland's budget is baseline allocation. Plus Barnett
:05:27. > :05:32.formula money, minus block grant adjustment, based on what the
:05:33. > :05:35.British government wanted, plus money. Which basically compensates
:05:36. > :05:49.for some of the things taken away. That is right. It is the passport at
:05:50. > :05:54.the there that has been argued over. -- plus pot. It means it will have
:05:55. > :05:58.to be renegotiated at some point. This is because Scotland's
:05:59. > :06:05.population is growing at a slower rate than England. If we did it in
:06:06. > :06:10.the original manor, Scotland would get less money than England per
:06:11. > :06:14.capita. Does the same overall as being reasonable? Scotland has to
:06:15. > :06:18.take some responsibility of its population if it does not grow
:06:19. > :06:31.vastly. And you can see the Scottish Government sing, we do not have
:06:32. > :06:33.control over immigration, so we should not take that responsibility.
:06:34. > :06:35.There will always have to be compromises. The government in
:06:36. > :06:37.Scotland does not have all the levers it would want to have to
:06:38. > :06:41.change some things, for example immigration is easy. So the
:06:42. > :06:44.settlement they have come to, it means the Smith Commission is
:06:45. > :06:49.implemented in full. Through the powers that there, there will be no
:06:50. > :06:52.detriment to the Scottish taxpayer unless the Scottish Government
:06:53. > :07:00.decides to do that by cutting taxes whatever. Part of the principle of
:07:01. > :07:06.this, if the Scottish Government were to cut taxes and its revenues
:07:07. > :07:15.were to fault and not be replaced by extra taxes, Scotland there is a hit
:07:16. > :07:20.for that. Exactly. What Scotland is protected on now, if tax rates stay
:07:21. > :07:24.as they are. If they cut them, then yes, that is a decision of future
:07:25. > :07:29.government might take. It is one the SNP Government might take, then we
:07:30. > :07:35.would have to cut our budget. I do not think sufficient detail has been
:07:36. > :07:41.published for the answer to this. We had a hint a few weeks ago that it
:07:42. > :07:44.is not just population they might be recognising, they might be
:07:45. > :07:50.recognising that the Scotland population is ageing as well. I have
:07:51. > :07:55.not seen that data, but that is an issue in Scotland. We do not have
:07:56. > :07:59.enough people being born and we do not have controls over immigration.
:08:00. > :08:05.We have seen arguments over the last few weeks, wanting overseas students
:08:06. > :08:08.to stay in Scotland, after they have been studying. That has been knocked
:08:09. > :08:14.back by the Home Office. We might see some movement in the argument.
:08:15. > :08:21.The underlying issues about how to do this have not been resolved, have
:08:22. > :08:24.they? It is kicked into touch until 2022 and then you have another
:08:25. > :08:28.fight. I am not sure that is quite the face. There is a framework in
:08:29. > :08:33.place to allow political parties to decide what to do. We have a
:08:34. > :08:37.Scottish Government that could raise 50% of its revenue. No future
:08:38. > :08:41.governments will have to make decisions on how to spend it. We
:08:42. > :08:43.will back with you in a moment. Now, MSPs will scrutinise plans
:08:44. > :08:45.for next year's budget When it's passed, they will have
:08:46. > :08:49.set a Scottish Rate Let's cross over to the chamber now
:08:50. > :09:04.and hear from the Finance Secretary, The rate of tax paid by Scottish
:09:05. > :09:07.residents by 2016-17 will be the same as it is today. Our decisions
:09:08. > :09:11.have been based on the principles I set out in earlier legislation and
:09:12. > :09:16.are designed to deliver a coherent framework. The first decision on
:09:17. > :09:20.setting a rate of income tax in Scotland has been one of substance
:09:21. > :09:24.and one that has required me to bounce the opportunities and risks
:09:25. > :09:30.presented by new tax powers. It has not been about addressing proposals
:09:31. > :09:38.without looking at how they will be implemented and the effects on
:09:39. > :09:41.individuals. With land and buildings transition tax, the first tax
:09:42. > :09:45.devolved to this parliament in 300 years, I delivered a progressive
:09:46. > :09:52.regime were the UK Government had passed up the opportunity to look at
:09:53. > :09:58.that reform in the past. It is not sufficient justification for
:09:59. > :10:00.increasing the tax burden on the lowest paying taxpayers. Taxes must
:10:01. > :10:06.be promotion it to the ability to pay and I stress the ability to pay.
:10:07. > :10:12.It will be limited reassurance to our pensioners or our newly
:10:13. > :10:15.qualified teachers know that people in higher incomes will be paying
:10:16. > :10:19.more than they will be, as we see their weekly budget under strain.
:10:20. > :10:24.They will not kill others are being more, they will care that they will
:10:25. > :10:34.have to pay more. That is not a burden I am willing to impose in
:10:35. > :10:38.this budget. -- they will not be interested. Because of these
:10:39. > :10:43.financial straitjacket, we are now imposing these cuts. A senior SNP
:10:44. > :10:49.councillor spoke out today warning about cuts to music, to school
:10:50. > :10:52.transport, but also to vulnerable children. Is he listening to anybody
:10:53. > :11:01.about these cuts to local authorities? For -- it is for
:11:02. > :11:07.individual authorities to take decisions about their own budgets.
:11:08. > :11:12.If I look at some of the examples that he cites in the list he is just
:11:13. > :11:19.given there, these are often the options that are circulated before
:11:20. > :11:22.council meetings. When councils take their decisions, they reject these
:11:23. > :11:24.options that are put before them. That is what is happened around
:11:25. > :11:32.countless laboratories around the country. If it is for local councils
:11:33. > :11:37.to make their own decisions about how to manage these cuts, why isn't
:11:38. > :11:42.it also for local councils to make their own decisions about tax rates
:11:43. > :11:47.that should be set locally? Because the government has a commitment to
:11:48. > :11:49.freeze the council tax for the duration of this government, and
:11:50. > :11:54.we're determined to ensure that we deliver the commitment to the people
:11:55. > :11:56.of Scotland that we given a 2011 elections. Governments that keep
:11:57. > :12:04.their policies respected by the public. Instead of increasing the
:12:05. > :12:06.tax burden, this budget protects house called incomes, provides
:12:07. > :12:11.leadership across the country by assuming that over 50,000 of
:12:12. > :12:20.Scotland's lowest workers receive a pay rise and earn at least a living
:12:21. > :12:25.edge. Given that tens of thousands of public sector jobs are going to
:12:26. > :12:28.be lost as a result of this budget, regardless of whose fault it is,
:12:29. > :12:35.given that tens of thousands of jobs are going to be lost, will the Dev T
:12:36. > :12:38.First Minister consider setting up an emergency tax forced to help
:12:39. > :12:44.these people get other jobs? -- deputy. The claims about public
:12:45. > :12:51.sector employment are exaggerated. That is what I think about in this
:12:52. > :12:57.debate. And I will cite the evidence for that. Order! In the last 12
:12:58. > :13:02.months, the number of jobs lost in the public sector in Scotland in the
:13:03. > :13:14.devolved public sector has spent 500. 0.1... That is the context I
:13:15. > :13:21.would put on the point is that Mr Reilly has raised with me in the
:13:22. > :13:25.debate today. This budget ensures that over -- older citizens can
:13:26. > :13:30.access free personal care in an integrated health and social gives
:13:31. > :13:35.system. The prescription tax is abolished, saving those with
:13:36. > :13:39.long-term illnesses around ?104 a year. Countries around the country
:13:40. > :13:46.will benefit from free school meals and 600 hours of early learning in
:13:47. > :13:50.childcare, saving ?707 per child per year and council tax is frozen for
:13:51. > :13:56.the ninth consecutive year, saving the average household around ?1550
:13:57. > :14:00.over the course of this parliament and we continue as a government to
:14:01. > :14:04.mitigate the most damaging effects of the UK Government s' welfare
:14:05. > :14:08.cuts. That is what this government is doing to protect household income
:14:09. > :14:18.in Scotland, and that is what is implicit in the budget reform
:14:19. > :14:21.Parliament today. -- before Parliament today. what he feels
:14:22. > :14:27.about the Clackmannanshire SNP budget which was passed last week,
:14:28. > :14:33.which imposed a 7.1% cut on every single third sector organisation,
:14:34. > :14:39.primarily supporting self-management in health conditions but also
:14:40. > :14:44.children. If you take into account RPI, that is in real terms a cut of
:14:45. > :14:50.8.4%. Is that what he does approve of? What I would say to Doctor
:14:51. > :14:54.Simpson is that individual local authorities must make their choices
:14:55. > :14:58.within the resources available to them, but I am also entitled to
:14:59. > :15:02.insist upon the need to freeze the council tax, about the need to
:15:03. > :15:09.invest in health and social care and its integration with ?250 million of
:15:10. > :15:13.new investment. Is Doctor Simpson against that investment and also
:15:14. > :15:17.ensuring that the Government takes steps to protect the delivery of
:15:18. > :15:20.education at local authority level? To which I now come in my remarks.
:15:21. > :15:22.We'll be back with that debate shortly, but first,
:15:23. > :15:27.I'm joined from Holyrood's Garden Lobby by the Conservative Alex
:15:28. > :15:30.Liam McArthur from the Liberal Democrats and Linda Fabiani
:15:31. > :15:43.There they are, all neatly arranged. I think we just missed what John
:15:44. > :15:48.Swinney was about to say about money for pupils do you know anything
:15:49. > :15:53.about that? No, I'm afraid I do not. I was hoping to get up there to
:15:54. > :15:59.learn about it. What you are hoping for is some sort of commitment to do
:16:00. > :16:04.something about Nicola Sturgeon and her personal issue about the
:16:05. > :16:08.attainment gap? Absolutely. She has made it a personal issue. She feels
:16:09. > :16:11.very strongly about it and I think that is a general feeling right
:16:12. > :16:14.across the Chamber so I am sure there will be something in there
:16:15. > :16:18.that will help us to achieve that and monitor its properly and make
:16:19. > :16:24.sure that we really do make a difference. And Iain Gray, if John
:16:25. > :16:28.Swinney does come up with extra money or the pupil premium as some
:16:29. > :16:33.call it, you presumably will say that is fantastic, well done, and
:16:34. > :16:37.now we do not need to put the income tax up? Well, you will have to come
:16:38. > :16:40.up with quite a lot. You can't pretend to be investing in closing
:16:41. > :16:43.the attainment gap in our schools while you're cutting hundreds of
:16:44. > :16:46.millions of pounds from the budgets of the council to deliver those
:16:47. > :16:52.skills and let's not forget this budget in real terms cut colleges
:16:53. > :16:56.and universities as well, so it was only last week that we asked the
:16:57. > :17:00.Scottish Government to commit to protect education budgets and they
:17:01. > :17:06.simply refuse to do so. Alex Johnson, what do you make of this?
:17:07. > :17:10.Would you like to see taxes cut? At the moment, I think it is
:17:11. > :17:13.inappropriate for us to be speaking about cutting taxes but that is a
:17:14. > :17:16.prospect that exists with the new power as that were agreed under the
:17:17. > :17:19.fiscal framework yesterday. What we have to remember is the most
:17:20. > :17:22.important thing for Scotland is that we went in the stability of the
:17:23. > :17:26.economy and the most important thing to do that is not started writing
:17:27. > :17:30.more money out of eight by increasing taxation so one of the
:17:31. > :17:34.positives that John Swinney has put forward in this budget is keeping
:17:35. > :17:38.the Scottish rate of income tax at 10p so that we do not pay any more
:17:39. > :17:43.than they do anywhere else in Britain. Sorry, as a conservative,
:17:44. > :17:47.just explain to me why think it is inappropriate to be speaking about
:17:48. > :17:50.tax cuts now. I think there is a time in an economic cycle when
:17:51. > :17:53.cutting the burden of taxation on the economy as a whole will boost
:17:54. > :17:57.growth and will increase production and employment but we are at the
:17:58. > :18:02.point is now it is vital that while we are under pressure to finance
:18:03. > :18:05.public services that we have a sensible, balanced budget, and in
:18:06. > :18:08.that respect, that is one of the things that John Swinney is actually
:18:09. > :18:13.delivering today. Liam McArthur, would you accept that should John
:18:14. > :18:18.Swinney come up with a substantial amount of cash to channel in the
:18:19. > :18:23.direction of schools, then we do not need to have our taxes put up? I
:18:24. > :18:27.will need to see the detail of it. If he goes down the route of a pupil
:18:28. > :18:30.premium, attaching the funding to the needs of the individual child
:18:31. > :18:34.rather than the approach taken today which has been on an area basis
:18:35. > :18:39.which had excluded 11 local authorities and many schools right
:18:40. > :18:43.across the country, that would be a welcome change and approach from the
:18:44. > :18:49.Government, but I think what we need to see is the detail of it and where
:18:50. > :18:51.that money will come from. We are seeing ?500 million of cuts being
:18:52. > :18:56.placed upon local authorities. We are seeing evidence of what that
:18:57. > :19:02.means in terms of the cuts to local services, whether in terms of loss
:19:03. > :19:05.of staff in our schools, whether it be increased costs for transport,
:19:06. > :19:11.for school meals, for music tuition and the like, and therefore what we
:19:12. > :19:14.need to do is see this in the right, but if we go down the route of a
:19:15. > :19:18.pupil premium and recognise that there are children in need, children
:19:19. > :19:23.in poverty in every community across the country, not just those elected
:19:24. > :19:28.by ministers, that will be a step in the right direction. But the trouble
:19:29. > :19:33.is you would equate cuts to local authorities with cuts to schools.
:19:34. > :19:37.Local authorities, as both John Swinney and David Cameron have been
:19:38. > :19:45.saying, can make efficiencies. I keep coming back to this point. The
:19:46. > :19:48.head of COSLA was on the Sunday Politics in a few weeks ago and
:19:49. > :19:51.conceded that the budgets over the past few years had not really meant
:19:52. > :19:56.a decline in the quality of service. He argued that any more cuts would,
:19:57. > :19:59.but the point is that there is no evidence that people find public
:20:00. > :20:02.services any less good than they were five years ago. I think you
:20:03. > :20:07.answered your own question. I think what we have seen is cuts being made
:20:08. > :20:12.where they can't efficiencies, but we are at a stage now where the
:20:13. > :20:15.effect of a ?500 million cut is to dig into services so that they are
:20:16. > :20:21.removed entirely or are being charged for or they are badly
:20:22. > :20:25.affected. What we are saying is we have powers in this Parliament to do
:20:26. > :20:28.something about it and a penny on income tax would deliver ?475
:20:29. > :20:33.million that could be invested in education and let's not forget, most
:20:34. > :20:39.of what councils do is in education and children's services. Linda, if
:20:40. > :20:44.we can do a quick pan across to you. This is reminding us here in the
:20:45. > :20:53.studio, it is a challenge for us in the studio, of that David Frost
:20:54. > :20:56.sketch with John Cleese in it. John Swinney has said that councils can
:20:57. > :21:00.make efficiency savings and don't necessarily have to cut schools.
:21:01. > :21:04.Yes, and I think that is absolutely right and I also have to say I think
:21:05. > :21:08.the Liberal Democrats in particular have a blooming cheek speaking about
:21:09. > :21:12.cuts when they and the Tories presided over a whole Westminster
:21:13. > :21:16.Parliament of cuts which meant that a lot of the Scottish budget hat to
:21:17. > :21:25.go to mitigation. We are mitigating the excess and then when you look at
:21:26. > :21:32.what is happening, yes, we could have efficiency savings. Liam after
:21:33. > :21:38.is behind you. Yes, he is muttering away. These things are about
:21:39. > :21:41.choices. You have chosen to fun things like free prescription
:21:42. > :21:46.charges by cutting local authority bust budgets. You could choose to
:21:47. > :21:51.put prescription charges back on. Arguably, free prescription charges
:21:52. > :21:55.only benefit the middle classes, and spend the proceeds in schools. You
:21:56. > :21:59.cannot say it is only the fault of London. These are choices that you
:22:00. > :22:02.have made. Yes, anything we have made the right choices. I believe in
:22:03. > :22:05.universality of certain basic services. That is what my party
:22:06. > :22:08.believes in. It is absolute the gristle. When you look at what we
:22:09. > :22:13.are doing, we look at health and social care, that is major. I defy
:22:14. > :22:16.anyone to look at their own local authority and say that there cannot
:22:17. > :22:20.be efficiencies made. We all know there can be. They have to make
:22:21. > :22:26.choices too. There you are, Iain Gray. Can we get to Iain Gray? There
:22:27. > :22:31.he is. Just hack a bit more of efficiency savings. I do not accept
:22:32. > :22:34.the premise of your original question because it is not true to
:22:35. > :22:40.say that services have not suffered and if you look at schools alone, we
:22:41. > :22:44.have 4500 fewer teachers in our schools which saw figures last week
:22:45. > :22:47.showing there had been a drop of a third in teachers in nursery schools
:22:48. > :22:53.in early years, we have seen literacy and new Morrissey skills
:22:54. > :23:05.fall, class sizes increasing. -- new Morrissey. -- numeracy. So it is not
:23:06. > :23:08.conceivable to suggest that you can cut hundreds of millions of pounds
:23:09. > :23:12.cumulatively and in a single year, this year, from local authority
:23:13. > :23:16.budgets, when schools are such a big part of what they do, without having
:23:17. > :23:26.an impact on the future of our children and grandchildren. Why it
:23:27. > :23:33.-- what would your reply to that be? They are having to implement
:23:34. > :23:37.austerity. We are looking at an extraordinary position when in a
:23:38. > :23:41.year when inflation has been virtually zero, this budget
:23:42. > :23:45.represents in cash terms and increase, not a decrease. If there
:23:46. > :23:49.are cuts within this budget then these cuts are decisions that were
:23:50. > :23:53.made by this Scottish Government and have been targeted on local
:23:54. > :23:56.authorities and colleges and other services, not because of anything
:23:57. > :24:02.that happened in Westminster, but because of decisions that were made
:24:03. > :24:06.here in Scotland by an SMP -- SNP Scottish Government. The cuts are
:24:07. > :24:13.about this Government and nobody else. We will have to leave it
:24:14. > :24:16.there. We are going to have a last chance to see this marvellous shot
:24:17. > :24:18.of you altogether. Thank you very much.
:24:19. > :24:20.Back to the Chamber where the Scottish Government's budget
:24:21. > :24:24.The Finance Secretary has pledged not to change income tax rates,
:24:25. > :24:26.but following criticism from opposition parties Mr Swinney
:24:27. > :24:28.has made an effort to help reduce the educational attainment gap
:24:29. > :24:31.by offering a cash boost to schools for disadvantaged pupils.
:24:32. > :24:42.Labour leader Kezia Dugdale is on her feet now.
:24:43. > :24:49.Kezia Dugdale is not giving way at the moment. I say to Mr Stewart that
:24:50. > :24:57.he should listen to the facts before he ignores them anyway. Analysis
:24:58. > :25:01.from spice shows that out of every pound raised by this measure, 92p
:25:02. > :25:08.will come from the top half of earners. Two thirds come from the
:25:09. > :25:13.top 20% of earners. And those SNP MSPs who told us that an entirely
:25:14. > :25:17.new state could be established in 18 months now tell us that a simple
:25:18. > :25:29.flat rate payment of ?100 could not be paid until the new powers come
:25:30. > :25:33.in. Oh, go on. Mr Stewart. Thank you, presiding officer. We have yet
:25:34. > :25:38.to hear from the Labour Party after many, many requests how that rebate
:25:39. > :25:43.scheme is actually going to work. Maybe Kezia Dugdale outline exactly
:25:44. > :25:48.how that is going to work or is she willing to take the gamble of making
:25:49. > :25:58.the poorest in our society pay for their mistake in being unable to
:25:59. > :26:11.deliver that rebate scheme? Order. They tell us it is all too
:26:12. > :26:14.difficult, it can't be done. Council leader after council leader have
:26:15. > :26:18.come out and told us that this cannot be done. Union leader after
:26:19. > :26:24.union leader has said that it is fair. And can I say to them? The
:26:25. > :26:29.expert analysis shows that because of the changes to the personal
:26:30. > :26:34.allowance, even before our ?100 payment, even if you accept that
:26:35. > :26:42.such a simple thing for a single year is all too difficult, even then
:26:43. > :26:50.no one earning under ?19,000 a year will pay a penny more in tax next
:26:51. > :26:53.year than they did this year. The University of Stirling, the
:26:54. > :26:57.resolution foundation, the House of Commons library all confirmed that
:26:58. > :27:03.the riches would pay a higher amount in percentage terms and in cash
:27:04. > :27:13.terms. That is a progressive policy. First Minister. F for a moment I can
:27:14. > :27:16.assume she manages to get the ?100 to low income households, can she
:27:17. > :27:22.confirmed today will any of that ?100 be God back in tax or tax
:27:23. > :27:26.credits? It is a simple question. Can we get a simple answer? It is
:27:27. > :27:35.quite clear that it is protected from tax. Look at the experts.
:27:36. > :27:40.Order, order! Come 2017, the First Minister will have the power to do
:27:41. > :27:48.this. Is she still opposed to it? Is it the detail? Order! Kezia Dugdale,
:27:49. > :27:54.would you sit down for one seconds please? Mr Swinney was heard in
:27:55. > :27:59.almost perfect silence, please. Please can we extend the same
:28:00. > :28:03.courtesy to Kezia Dugdale. Please proceed. Such is the weight of
:28:04. > :28:07.evidence that those searching for reasons to oppose her plans now
:28:08. > :28:15.scrabble in the dirt for excuses not to do the right thing. Each time
:28:16. > :28:18.this has been raised in this Parliament, the First Minister and
:28:19. > :28:21.the Deputy First Minister talk low paid workers that the lowest paid
:28:22. > :28:27.will pay more than higher earners. For them to do this, when they know
:28:28. > :28:32.that the richest will pay more than 100 times more than the lower paid,
:28:33. > :28:40.it is beneath the office that they hold.
:28:41. > :28:49.It is just plain wrong. The second thing, this is now beyond doubt,
:28:50. > :28:55.this budget will inflict unnecessary pain on every community in Scotland.
:28:56. > :28:59.Almost unbelievably the Deputy First Minister told this government that
:29:00. > :29:04.the cuts in this budget would have a minimal impact. You need only read
:29:05. > :29:11.the front pages of any local newspaper, top to any teacher, he
:29:12. > :29:15.did not speak to the hundreds of trade unionists that assembled
:29:16. > :29:19.outside this parliament a lunchtime today, to understand how utterly
:29:20. > :29:23.divorced from reality that position has become. Because the terrible
:29:24. > :29:27.toll of these cuts are there and black-and-white in the budgets being
:29:28. > :29:32.passed with heavy, heavy Hearts by local councillors of all political
:29:33. > :29:37.colours. Here are some of those choices, 170 jobs lost in Angus this
:29:38. > :29:46.week. Clackmannanshire will consider cutting 150 posts, Highland 252.
:29:47. > :29:51.Across Scotland, thousands of workers losing their jobs, cleaners,
:29:52. > :29:55.supply teachers, early years staff. Some ghoul librarians sacked in
:29:56. > :30:06.Argyll and Bute. English and maths teachers cut. -- in the Deputy First
:30:07. > :30:13.Minister's first -- own backyard, they have cut support for families
:30:14. > :30:17.with additional support needs with more cuts across the country. They
:30:18. > :30:20.can put whatever spin they want on these cuts. They can really them,
:30:21. > :30:27.they can re-badge them, they can even be profiled on. But they cannot
:30:28. > :30:31.deny that these cuts are real and that they are painful. The final
:30:32. > :30:35.thing that has been clear since the start of this process is that our
:30:36. > :30:41.proposal is the only alternative to these cuts. Why? Because we cannot
:30:42. > :30:45.escape the responsibility of the choice we are faced with. Will we
:30:46. > :30:52.use powers, the powers we came together to demand, or will we
:30:53. > :30:54.accept cuts? Scottish Labour cannot do anything other than argue to use
:30:55. > :30:59.those powers. It is never others to search their own conscience.
:31:00. > :31:10.Earlier this morning the Finance committee heard from John Swinney.
:31:11. > :31:16.He says that it can be no detriment to Scotland and he can recommend the
:31:17. > :31:20.Scotland Bill for further consent. This is what he had to say to the
:31:21. > :31:24.finance committee. Under this proposal there will not be a single
:31:25. > :31:32.penny of detriment to the Scottish Government's budget. The UK
:31:33. > :31:38.Government will guarantee the outcome of the Scottish Government's
:31:39. > :31:41.preferred funding model, per Capita index model, is used in each of
:31:42. > :31:44.these years. Alongside this there will be a review that will be
:31:45. > :31:50.informed by an independent report with recommendations represented to
:31:51. > :31:57.the governments at the end of 2021. It will not include or assume the
:31:58. > :32:01.method for adjusting the block grant for this period. The two governments
:32:02. > :32:03.will be required to jointly agree that method as part of the review
:32:04. > :32:10.and this must deliver results consistent with the Smith Commission
:32:11. > :32:13.'s recommendations, including taxpayer furnace, and the principle
:32:14. > :32:18.of no detriment. This secures no detriment now and for the next six
:32:19. > :32:23.years. And we have ensured that there can be no detriment imposed on
:32:24. > :32:29.Scotland at any point in the future. On capital borrowing we have
:32:30. > :32:31.increased the Scottish borrowing limits to ?3 billion. Cumulatively
:32:32. > :32:44.?3 billion worth than your flexible to 50% of that. This increases are
:32:45. > :32:46.annual borrowing facilities to invest in infrastructure. On
:32:47. > :32:50.resource borrowing, we will receive the powers necessary to manage tax
:32:51. > :32:56.volatility by increasing the resource borrowing limit set by the
:32:57. > :33:04.Scotland act, as well as introducing a new reserve. The aggregate annual
:33:05. > :33:07.limit for forecast error and economic shock will be set at 600
:33:08. > :33:17.million. The overall resource debt will be one point 7 million. We have
:33:18. > :33:22.agreed a one-off payment of ?200 million to support implementation
:33:23. > :33:26.costs and ongoing funding of ?66 million per annum. The committee
:33:27. > :33:30.will be keen to hear that I have also agreed the Scottish fiscal
:33:31. > :33:34.commission will produce the official forecast of GDP and tax revenues and
:33:35. > :33:38.I will bring forward appropriate amendments at stage three of the
:33:39. > :33:42.commission and bill to give effect to these provisions. This forms the
:33:43. > :33:46.basis of the fiscal framework that is true to the principles of Smith.
:33:47. > :33:50.It will ensure the deal for Scotland cannot be changed within the
:33:51. > :33:53.Scottish Government's agreement, protects the Barnett formula, and
:33:54. > :33:59.allow the powers in the Scotland Bill to be delivered. I am acutely
:34:00. > :34:03.aware that none of the details are in front of the committee today.
:34:04. > :34:06.Once they are published, they will appear before the committee if it is
:34:07. > :34:11.their wish to look at the further detail when it is published to the
:34:12. > :34:16.course of the week. Thank you for that opening statement. I think we
:34:17. > :34:20.are delighted an agreement has been reached. You spoke to a number of
:34:21. > :34:28.areas. The Scottish Government did not compromise. In terms of
:34:29. > :34:32.borrowing there have been some compromise. I wonder if there are
:34:33. > :34:38.further compromises that have been made that you may wide -- quantifies
:34:39. > :34:45.the committee of? In the process of the negotiations, the Scottish
:34:46. > :34:51.Government has advanced particular propositions when we were trying to
:34:52. > :34:56.secure the agreement. For example, on borrowing, I argued for a higher
:34:57. > :35:04.limit than ?3 billion, but I accepted that there had to be the
:35:05. > :35:06.Smith commission requires this army, that the borrowing commission
:35:07. > :35:15.arrangement had to be consistent with that of the United Kingdom. --
:35:16. > :35:23.requires that. I have to accept that there are constraining factors and
:35:24. > :35:29.are -- we have to live within them. I have compromised on the degree to
:35:30. > :35:35.which the annual constraints within capital borrowing and a variety of
:35:36. > :35:43.other issues. Fundamentally, I think you have to take a step back from
:35:44. > :35:46.the conclusions and say in the round, is this a reasonable package
:35:47. > :35:47.that can be recommended to Parliament. And that my basis for
:35:48. > :35:48.them is Our political correspondent
:35:49. > :36:04.Andrew Kerr joins me Is that it? Mostly happy. There is
:36:05. > :36:09.almost a sense about a feeling of the morning after the night before.
:36:10. > :36:15.You heard Kenny Gibson saying that everyone is relieved that a deal has
:36:16. > :36:17.been done. When he appeared before the devolution committee yesterday
:36:18. > :36:23.morning, I think he was thinking that a deal might not be done at
:36:24. > :36:26.that stage. But there were more than calls during the course of the day,
:36:27. > :36:30.the Chancellor spoke to Nicola Sturgeon and eventually a deal was
:36:31. > :36:36.done. Most people are probably happy. There has been compromise on
:36:37. > :36:39.both sides I would say. It looks like the UK Treasury maybe didn't
:36:40. > :36:44.get their way. There is talk about the initial call about the ?7
:36:45. > :36:47.billion of cuts over ten years, whether that was the negotiating
:36:48. > :36:54.position or not, we are not quite sure. Now the Scottish Government
:36:55. > :37:00.have had to adopt the Treasury's adopted model of funding. But with
:37:01. > :37:07.making sure that there will be no doubt on to the Scottish budget for
:37:08. > :37:12.the next five years. Interesting as well, there was a row about this
:37:13. > :37:16.only are you few weeks ago. They have accepted that there will be a
:37:17. > :37:22.Scottish version of the Office for Budget Responsibility or sober as we
:37:23. > :37:27.have decided to call it in the studio, that will set the forecast
:37:28. > :37:32.independently of the government, which John Swinney will have to then
:37:33. > :37:36.bases budget around. That was our back track, a compromise, that is
:37:37. > :37:41.what Labour were calling it in the finance committee today. Previously
:37:42. > :37:44.John Swinney did not want these independent forecasts. But the UK
:37:45. > :37:51.Treasury were keen to have the fiscal commission checking, setting
:37:52. > :37:55.out the forecast, GDP and revenue and so on, because when it comes to
:37:56. > :38:01.that review I mentioned, that is going to be fairly critical, just
:38:02. > :38:03.who will decide on whether the preferred model is working or not,
:38:04. > :38:09.and Lott should be the way forward from that. In the House of Commons
:38:10. > :38:15.earlier, David Mandel put appointed criticism when he was saying that
:38:16. > :38:18.many people like to see themselves in Scotland as independent, but
:38:19. > :38:26.perhaps they are not really. -- David Mundell. Perhaps the Scottish
:38:27. > :38:32.Government would like to see this feeding into the current model they
:38:33. > :38:36.have chosen. Andrew, how should we take this? Is this a fantastically
:38:37. > :38:41.bit of diplomacy that has finessed everything and there can be a review
:38:42. > :38:46.and enamoured call discussion in five years? Or have they kicked
:38:47. > :38:50.everything into the long grass? There has been a process of
:38:51. > :38:56.negotiation. Everyone here are surprised. It has just taken so
:38:57. > :38:59.long. They started these initial discussions back in March, I
:39:00. > :39:06.remember waiting outside Saint Andrews house in September. The
:39:07. > :39:15.chief of the secretary was going into the talks. -- Treasury. It has
:39:16. > :39:17.been kicked into the long grass. Six years from now we will have to go
:39:18. > :39:21.through this whole process again. Nicola surgeon was yesterday quite
:39:22. > :39:29.clear to point out who knows what the setup may be in five or six
:39:30. > :39:32.years' time. She was saying, she wants an independent Scotland. Who
:39:33. > :39:37.knows what it might be like. Moray Macdonald is
:39:38. > :39:48.still here with me. Kezia Dugdale looked very fired up.
:39:49. > :39:55.She looked on form today and being very forthright and putting argument
:39:56. > :40:02.across. She is still fighting this idea of putting up income tax by 1p.
:40:03. > :40:12.You can see the politics of this. Labour are trying to... Johann
:40:13. > :40:15.Lamont said we now need to ask people to listen to what we're
:40:16. > :40:21.saying. That is the stage we are at. That is what they're trying to do.
:40:22. > :40:25.We are a left-wing party. And we are to the left of the SNP and put a bit
:40:26. > :40:34.of clear blue water between them. That will be interesting, whether
:40:35. > :40:40.that has, if it will be attractive to people. Will it? Labour's
:40:41. > :40:44.challenge is that they do have to try and do something a bit
:40:45. > :40:47.different, a bit creative, so the public listen to them. The public
:40:48. > :40:55.are apparently not listening to Labour. I am not convinced that a 1p
:40:56. > :41:02.tax rise is going to turn people. You heard earlier one of the MSTs
:41:03. > :41:10.saying that the economy is not ready for... There was a view that Ruth
:41:11. > :41:15.Davidson would go into the next Scottish elections going vote Tory
:41:16. > :41:20.and we will cut your taxes. Exactly. The opposite side of that is that
:41:21. > :41:25.the economy and people are not ready for a tax increase. Many families
:41:26. > :41:29.are still struggling, living hand to mouth on a monthly basis. A tax rise
:41:30. > :41:36.would hurt middle-class Scotland quite dramatically. There will be
:41:37. > :41:40.another political row, controversy, because of this deal that has been
:41:41. > :41:44.done. Presumably, some of the physician parties are going to say,
:41:45. > :41:50.we can start messing around with the tax bands, under the powers that may
:41:51. > :41:58.be coming in 2017. That means vacancy, we will put more tax on
:41:59. > :42:04.higher tax rate payers. But George Osborne has proposed to raise the
:42:05. > :42:09.rate from where you pay 40p. They could say, we are not going to do
:42:10. > :42:16.that. During the election campaign, we're going to see many ways of how
:42:17. > :42:21.you can raise tax, cut tax. One of the things that was interesting
:42:22. > :42:25.today, David Mundell turned around and said I am expecting the Scottish
:42:26. > :42:29.Parliament to use these powers straight after the election. John
:42:30. > :42:40.Swinney said, hang on, it will take us a while to do this. I found
:42:41. > :42:43.rather weird, because one month from today was going to be Independence
:42:44. > :42:46.Day. Given that the election may happen in May, those new powers will
:42:47. > :42:51.come during the term of that government. It is not unreasonable
:42:52. > :42:55.to ask whatever party is in power, what they will do with these birds
:42:56. > :42:59.during the election campaign. What will be exciting on that front, for
:43:00. > :43:03.the first time, the Scottish Government -- public will get a
:43:04. > :43:11.choice. We have been told for so long that Scotland is up for more
:43:12. > :43:14.tax to pay for more services. I am not convinced that is true. Now we
:43:15. > :43:17.will see if that is what the public want.
:43:18. > :43:18.And now to this week's Prime Ministers Questions,
:43:19. > :43:20.where the Labour leader pressed the Prime Minister
:43:21. > :43:22.over his government's dispute with junior doctors over
:43:23. > :43:26.Though it's not an issue that affects us here in Scotland,
:43:27. > :43:28.there were plenty questions raised that do affect us,
:43:29. > :43:35.from the new devolution deal to the state of our oil industry.
:43:36. > :43:40.The NHS staff survey purchased yesterday shows that nine out of ten
:43:41. > :43:43.junior doctors already work extra hours beyond their normal contract.
:43:44. > :43:49.The survey also showed falling morale amongst these vital group of
:43:50. > :43:54.staff. What does the Prime Minister think the Health Secretary's veto of
:43:55. > :43:59.a deal and imposition of a contract would do to their morale? First of
:44:00. > :44:03.all, the Health Secretary did not veto a deal. What matters is making
:44:04. > :44:08.sure we can have a genuine, seven-day NHS. What I say to junior
:44:09. > :44:12.doctor is an old junior doctor working those hours will receive a
:44:13. > :44:17.pay cut, this contract will not impose longer hours. In fact, it has
:44:18. > :44:21.tougher safeguards to make sure that introduces the hours that worked.
:44:22. > :44:24.We'll be Prime Minister congratulate the Scottish element and his own
:44:25. > :44:28.colleagues who secured a deal on financial arrangements for the next
:44:29. > :44:33.phase of Scottish devolution? The Treasury position initially in data
:44:34. > :44:38.?7 million -- ?7 billion of public funding. That was reduced to ?3
:44:39. > :44:42.billion and then yesterday ?2.5 billion. What change the mind of the
:44:43. > :44:48.Treasury and help them agree to a deal that will make Scotland nor
:44:49. > :44:51.less worse off? Let me agree with the right honourable gentleman. This
:44:52. > :44:56.is an excellent deal for Scotland, but it is also an excellent deal for
:44:57. > :45:00.the UK, are those of us who want to keep the UK together, what we have
:45:01. > :45:05.just demonstrated is that you can have school on devolution with a
:45:06. > :45:09.powerhouse parliament, with a fair fiscal settlement, inside the UK and
:45:10. > :45:13.that is something to be celebrated. Now we will move to the situation
:45:14. > :45:16.where the Scottish Government and the Scottish parliament will have to
:45:17. > :45:20.start talking about policies and decisions rather than processors,
:45:21. > :45:24.but I am happy that the negotiations went as they did and I am happy we
:45:25. > :45:28.have a good outcome and I'm happy that Lord Smith, who was responsible
:45:29. > :45:33.for so much of this, but out a statement saying that this delivers
:45:34. > :45:37.the principles in full, so no more grievance, no more fussing about
:45:38. > :45:45.process, no more arguments about the arrangements, now it is time to get
:45:46. > :45:51.on and governed. Angus Robertson. And we are indebted to John Swinney
:45:52. > :45:55.and Nicola Sturgeon for securing a no detriment deal for Scotland. The
:45:56. > :45:58.Prime Minister is right that all parties will have two layout there
:45:59. > :46:03.are plans in advance of the May election. So Kitty answer this
:46:04. > :46:08.question? Is it actually true that in this time of posterity, his
:46:09. > :46:13.party, the Conservative Party, is planning tax cuts for higher earners
:46:14. > :46:17.in Scotland? It will be Ruth Davidson who is the only proper
:46:18. > :46:21.opposition figure in Scotland will be setting out the plans. If you are
:46:22. > :46:26.worried in Scotland is about having a bit of a 1-party state and a lack
:46:27. > :46:30.of accountability, if you think that the Labour Party in Scotland has
:46:31. > :46:34.lost its way, there is only one choice and that is raised. But I
:46:35. > :46:38.will say this. I think there are opportunities to cut taxes. There
:46:39. > :46:41.are opportunities to shop in incentives. There are opportunities
:46:42. > :46:45.to attract businesses and people into Scotland and I am sure that
:46:46. > :46:49.Ruth Davidson will be making those arguments, and as she does, whatever
:46:50. > :46:56.she decides, she will have my full and unequivocal support. The
:46:57. > :47:00.Scottish Government, trade unions and oil and gas UK are calling for
:47:01. > :47:04.reductions to the headline rate of tax to support the industry in its
:47:05. > :47:08.hour of need. Yet instead of the so-called broad shoulders of the UK,
:47:09. > :47:13.what we see are the sloping shoulders of the Prime Minister
:47:14. > :47:17.repeatedly dodging his responsibilities. Will she commit to
:47:18. > :47:23.reduce the tax level on oil and gas and help this vital industry? First
:47:24. > :47:27.of all, in the budget last year, we reduce the burden of tax on oil and
:47:28. > :47:31.gas, something we were able to do because of the broad shoulders of
:47:32. > :47:38.the UK. And now let us just examine what has happened since that time.
:47:39. > :47:43.Oil and gas revenues are down 94%. If there were not the broad
:47:44. > :47:47.shoulders of the UK Government, if instead this was a genuinely
:47:48. > :47:51.fiscally independent Scotland, there would be a massive black hole in
:47:52. > :47:55.your budget. You would be cutting welfare, you'll be cutting spending,
:47:56. > :47:56.you would be putting up taxes, you would be facing a financial
:47:57. > :47:57.catastrophe. Our Westminster correspondent
:47:58. > :48:12.David Porter is joined by a quartet David. Garden. Thank you very much.
:48:13. > :48:18.The Scottish and the UK Government's former deal about finances, and Lo
:48:19. > :48:23.and behold, the Sun comes out over Westminster. There must be a moral
:48:24. > :48:29.in there somewhere. As we have been hearing, the fiscal framework made
:48:30. > :48:33.its appearance at PMQs. We will be concentrating our discussion on that
:48:34. > :48:42.this afternoon. Joining me for Labour, Stephen Gethin is for the
:48:43. > :48:49.SNP. From the UK Government's point of view, a good deal? When you can
:48:50. > :48:52.sell the elections? , well I think firstly we should congratulate both
:48:53. > :48:56.governments for reaching an agreement. This is a historic moment
:48:57. > :49:02.for both governments and for both peoples and the whole people of
:49:03. > :49:07.Great Britain. This is a good deal for both peoples. What I would now
:49:08. > :49:12.like to see is moving forward how the powers are going to be used in
:49:13. > :49:15.Scotland for the betterment of the people of Scotland, so it is a good
:49:16. > :49:20.deal and we should congratulate both governments for the hard work they
:49:21. > :49:24.both did to get an agreement. Is there a danger of consensus breaking
:49:25. > :49:30.out here? Everyone congratulating everyone else. If it was that easy,
:49:31. > :49:33.why did it take so long? Well, firstly the big bit of
:49:34. > :49:44.congratulations should go to John Swinney. This is what happens when
:49:45. > :49:48.you have a treasurer like this. A finance secretary who sticks to his
:49:49. > :49:54.guns and can beat the Treasury. Was it a case of there was always going
:49:55. > :50:00.to be a deal and the posturing of it was important was a touch and go
:50:01. > :50:05.until the final moments? I think it might have been touch and go. These
:50:06. > :50:10.negotiations are highly complicated. You're talking about very complex
:50:11. > :50:13.ways of indexation in terms of the block grant and income tax and all
:50:14. > :50:18.those big issues around it and it is quite right that the 2-party start
:50:19. > :50:22.of various ends of the spectrum and they come together. I am glad they
:50:23. > :50:27.have done. We are delighted there is fiscal framework in place now, but
:50:28. > :50:33.we will go back and we will now get on with it utilising those powers.
:50:34. > :50:38.This does make the most powerful devolved parliament in the world. We
:50:39. > :50:42.should use that for the benefit of all Scots. We have been putting a
:50:43. > :50:46.very positive policy platform together and we encourage all other
:50:47. > :50:51.parties to do the same. Let's get political on this. From your party's
:50:52. > :50:54.point of view, does this mean your party leader in Scotland, Ruth
:50:55. > :50:58.Davidson, can now going to lose elections and say we are the
:50:59. > :51:02.Conservatives, we are going to be a tax-cutting party in Scotland? It
:51:03. > :51:05.will be for Ruth Davidson and the party to determine the policies that
:51:06. > :51:11.best meet the needs of the people of Scotland. I don't want to get to
:51:12. > :51:15.political about this. This is about the people of Scotland. Hours are
:51:16. > :51:21.being transferred to the Scottish parliament. As Ian rightly said as
:51:22. > :51:25.well and what we now want to see is the Scottish Parliament is using the
:51:26. > :51:29.wealth of powers that it will now have two better the lives of the
:51:30. > :51:34.people of Scotland, so this is an historic moment. It is a good day
:51:35. > :51:36.that we have this agreement and let's now move forward positively
:51:37. > :51:40.and let the people of Scotland decide. I hope they decide that Ruth
:51:41. > :51:44.Davidson and the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party is
:51:45. > :51:49.the right party, but it will be for the people of Scotland to decide. It
:51:50. > :51:52.is boiling down to it. Now that we have this fiscal framework, with
:51:53. > :51:55.bright school responsibilities, particularly financial ones. Of
:51:56. > :51:59.course, that is why the Scottish Government authority set up in that
:52:00. > :52:03.they can tackle, such as Social Security and universal credit and
:52:04. > :52:07.getting rid of the betting tax. They will be looking to see what the
:52:08. > :52:10.other parties think of that. Are looking at Air Passenger Duty and
:52:11. > :52:13.how you can grow your economy. So the Scottish Government has set out
:52:14. > :52:17.its plans and we will see how people vote on that in the future but let's
:52:18. > :52:22.not forget the Treasury still holds an awful lot of the purse strings.
:52:23. > :52:28.Ian Murray, your party actually wants to increase taxation at the
:52:29. > :52:33.top rate in the Scottish elections. Do you think, as so many other
:52:34. > :52:37.elections Wetherby in London or in Edinburgh, will actually be
:52:38. > :52:41.dominated by the taxation issue now? Well, I think it should, because I
:52:42. > :52:43.think a grown-up parliament should have those taxation issues and we
:52:44. > :52:46.have already got a very distinctive difference between all of the
:52:47. > :52:52.political parties. We have the continuation of austerity which --
:52:53. > :52:55.and we have the SNP managing that austerity and refusing to use the
:52:56. > :52:58.powers of the Scottish Parliament and we have made the choice that
:52:59. > :53:03.when these are the joys of cutting into Scotland's feature or using
:53:04. > :53:09.those powers, we use -- we choose to use those powers. Local services
:53:10. > :53:14.have been decimated and local workers who provide those services
:53:15. > :53:19.are just about to be made unemployed and we have to drop a law -- a line
:53:20. > :53:24.under it. When we have a choice between using those powers or not,
:53:25. > :53:28.we choose to use them. These are extraordinary comments from Labour.
:53:29. > :53:33.A Labour Chancellor said that he was going to cut deeper and tougher than
:53:34. > :53:40.Margaret Thatcher and George Osborne continued that, so Labour and the
:53:41. > :53:44.Conservatives are two peas in a pod. Responsibility is the word that you
:53:45. > :53:49.used. Finally the gripe and the grievance that the SNP have been
:53:50. > :53:54.drumming in this place behind us for years is over because we can hold to
:53:55. > :53:59.account Stephen's colleagues in the Scottish Parliament very shortly on
:54:00. > :54:02.how they use the Scottish powers in the Scottish Parliament for the
:54:03. > :54:04.betterment of the Scottish people and we can't come down here and
:54:05. > :54:09.write and complain about the Treasury or the Government or the
:54:10. > :54:12.Scottish Labour Party. We will be looking very closely at them and how
:54:13. > :54:16.they use these powers and if they do not use them wisely, they have got
:54:17. > :54:19.nobody but themselves to blame and the Scottish people at the election
:54:20. > :54:23.in May will be able to decide for themselves whether they want Ruth
:54:24. > :54:28.Davidson and the Scottish Conservatives to use as power wisely
:54:29. > :54:31.or an SNP Government that just has one agenda, the break-up of Britain.
:54:32. > :54:37.Stephen Gethin is, you have nowhere to hide financially in future. The
:54:38. > :54:43.Treasury still holds a lot of those powers. I am the only person here
:54:44. > :54:47.who has set out positive proposals for what we are going to do with
:54:48. > :54:50.those powers, so I think that is quite telling. They want to cut Air
:54:51. > :54:55.Passenger Duty which is to take flights and passenger flights rather
:54:56. > :54:59.than take them away from public services. We all talk about powers
:55:00. > :55:04.and the Treasury but ultimately this is about other services that are
:55:05. > :55:09.grandmothers use, that our children use, that our neighbours use. These
:55:10. > :55:17.are the services that are being dead submitted and we want to make sure
:55:18. > :55:24.they are not. -- been decimated. Thank you for sharing that consensus
:55:25. > :55:25.you all started with did not last for too long. Normal services
:55:26. > :55:26.resume. Moray Macdonald is with me
:55:27. > :55:34.for the final time this afternoon. Opposition parties, it is pretty
:55:35. > :55:40.obvious what they are toenails. We will give you powers. All, you will
:55:41. > :55:44.have to take responsibility for them. We will not hear any more
:55:45. > :55:48.grievances. I seem to remember hearing all of this in the mid-19
:55:49. > :55:53.90s before they set up a Scottish parliament and look where that got.
:55:54. > :55:56.Yes, absolutely. I think there is plenty of room left for grievances
:55:57. > :56:02.over the next five years preserving the SNP are still in power, may to
:56:03. > :56:07.lay the issues at Westminster's door, whether it is immigration or
:56:08. > :56:11.defence issues, they will still be griping about the fact that Trident
:56:12. > :56:15.will be based on pure in Scotland and the amount of money being spent
:56:16. > :56:19.on that so there is plenty of room for that. The new powers coming to
:56:20. > :56:24.Scotland are not just financial powers. They will have powers to
:56:25. > :56:30.spend more money on welfare issues, so if he wants to get rid of the
:56:31. > :56:37.bedroom tax, they cannot do that -- they can now do that. And there is
:56:38. > :56:41.also new powers about road speeds and road signs, exciting things like
:56:42. > :56:45.that, so a whole range of things being debated that we have not seen
:56:46. > :56:50.before. Can I ask you just for a moment to take off your former Tory
:56:51. > :56:55.adviser hat and put your involved in business hat on? Do you get any
:56:56. > :57:01.sense from business in Scotland that is new devolution of powers is
:57:02. > :57:06.important to them? I think most businesses at the moment do not see
:57:07. > :57:09.any potential risk. There are not any flag being raised that there
:57:10. > :57:13.will be huge changes to corporation tax at the moment or any other tax
:57:14. > :57:20.that will have a big impact on business. Businesses are impacted
:57:21. > :57:23.over things like the living wage where we have had a host of business
:57:24. > :57:28.is already paying that because they know that the Scottish Government
:57:29. > :57:33.wants to do that, so they don't have to do that, but it perhaps looks
:57:34. > :57:36.better for them if they do. I think most businesses are probably more
:57:37. > :57:40.focus on what is happening at Westminster and Brussels in terms of
:57:41. > :57:44.the EU referendum and that potentially has a bigger impact on
:57:45. > :57:47.businesses in the UK and in Scotland than some of the powers coming to
:57:48. > :57:51.the Scottish parliament. And in the short term, with the election
:57:52. > :57:58.campaign coming up, Labour clearly want to make it about tax. Each said
:57:59. > :58:02.it should be. Will it be about tax? I think it will, but all of the
:58:03. > :58:07.taxes that we have seen any of the party speaking about have all been
:58:08. > :58:11.about income tax on you and I, on the public, not on business, so I
:58:12. > :58:15.think that will be a feature. They think one of the issues might again
:58:16. > :58:19.be council tax. We're still not got that right. There is a lack of
:58:20. > :58:22.democracy at a local level with the fact that councils have actually
:58:23. > :58:32.lost any power to raise revenue because they have been restricted
:58:33. > :58:45.from doing that for the local level now will stop I think we will see
:58:46. > :58:46.powers from the SNP. We'll have to leave it there.
:58:47. > :58:50.I'll be back with Sunday Politics Scotland on Sunday at 11am.
:58:51. > :59:05.We are told that OJ Simpson is in that car,
:59:06. > :59:16.Do you think he did it? She was terrified of him.