:00:16. > :00:18.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up on the
:00:18. > :00:20.programme. The alcohol industry stands accused of distorting
:00:20. > :00:27.evidence to influence the Scottish Government over its minimum pricing
:00:27. > :00:29.policy. David Cameron defends his welfare
:00:29. > :00:35.reforms to Scottish MPs as MSPs debate the controversial proposals
:00:35. > :00:45.again. And the fall-out continues over the
:00:45. > :00:52.
:00:52. > :00:54.UK Government warnings on currency in an independent Scotland.
:00:54. > :00:57.The drinks industry has been accused of distorting evidence as
:00:57. > :00:59.it tried to influence the Scottish Government over alcohol minimum
:00:59. > :01:01.pricing. An academic report says the industry's submissions to a
:01:01. > :01:03.public consultation ignored, misrepresented and undermined
:01:03. > :01:13.scientific evidence. I am joined this afternoon by our political
:01:13. > :01:15.
:01:15. > :01:21.commentator Hamish Macdonnell. Very interesting that this report
:01:21. > :01:26.has come out of. How critical of the drinks industry is it? We have
:01:26. > :01:31.known for a long time that the argument that the drinks industry
:01:31. > :01:37.was trying to sell was a hard one to get across. They were trying to
:01:37. > :01:42.argue against minimum pricing, trying to say it would not stop
:01:42. > :01:47.people drinking more. It appears as if all the weight of scientific
:01:47. > :01:53.evidence has been on the side of the Scottish government and has
:01:53. > :01:56.left this drinks industry trying to shoot down that evidence. What has
:01:56. > :02:03.been that the response from the Scottish government on this? They
:02:03. > :02:07.will be delighted? Very much so. This plays into the hands of the
:02:07. > :02:17.Scottish government, particularly as far as the argument is concerned.
:02:17. > :02:22.This has been an argument on health grounds. They will be delighted
:02:22. > :02:26.with this report. But the problem is the way the argument is now
:02:26. > :02:31.really in the courts. No matter how much are they may feel the moral
:02:31. > :02:39.authority on the back of this report, whether it does anything to
:02:39. > :02:43.help implement the policy remains to be seen. More on that later.
:02:43. > :02:53.Just before they came on air, John Swinney, the finance secretary
:02:53. > :03:02.answered a question on the share of UK get that the Scotland's --
:03:02. > :03:09.Scottish government might inherit. A single-decker using a population
:03:09. > :03:18.of historic share would leave Scotland with a lower share of debt
:03:18. > :03:24.to GDP. Scotland has contributed significantly in excess of its per
:03:24. > :03:31.capita share of tax of revenues for which it has received and will
:03:31. > :03:37.return. This should be reflected in these calculations? That is correct
:03:37. > :03:42.in the substance of the analysis. The balance sheet report published
:03:42. > :03:52.earlier this month shows that tax receipts per person in Scotland has
:03:52. > :03:53.
:03:53. > :04:03.been higher than in the UK as a whole. Scotland's share of UK debt
:04:03. > :04:04.
:04:04. > :04:08.would a result in a Scottish share of 38% of GDP. This is
:04:08. > :04:13.significantly lower than their UK debt burden.
:04:13. > :04:22.It interesting to hear that. We have had about six days of argument
:04:22. > :04:27.over the National currency, what currency Scotland should use if it
:04:27. > :04:30.becomes independent, what is the strategy behind this? I think this
:04:31. > :04:35.is an attempt by the finance secretary to try and put the record
:04:35. > :04:39.straight. Since George Osborne has been appear suggesting that
:04:39. > :04:46.Scotland may lose the pound, there has been a reaction from the
:04:46. > :04:51.Scottish government saying, if you do not give us the pound, we will
:04:51. > :04:56.not take our share of national debt. John Swinney is trying to cool
:04:56. > :05:01.things down and set things straight saying, we will take our share of
:05:01. > :05:06.national debt, but we believe that power share of national debt will
:05:06. > :05:12.be lower than some people in the UK Government believe it. The quote
:05:12. > :05:19.from John Swinney was that the Chancellor was playing with fire.
:05:19. > :05:28.Scotland could walk away from its share of the UK's debts if
:05:28. > :05:38.Westminster did not come into and - - into a rational debate. Yes, the
:05:38. > :05:44.SNP had been angered by what George Osborne has been St and the
:05:44. > :05:54.scaremongering. This is an attempt to try to keep things cool. We have
:05:54. > :05:55.
:05:55. > :06:01.80 Munster to go until we get to the referendum. -- 18 months.
:06:01. > :06:06.not suppose there will be any agreement before the referendum.
:06:06. > :06:13.nobody knows what will happen. But everyone wants a rational debate.
:06:13. > :06:17.They do not want this idea of people being scared, they want to
:06:17. > :06:26.try and keep it more rational and based on figures and statistics. I
:06:26. > :06:29.think that is what the finance secretary was trying to do today.
:06:29. > :06:36.Holyrood has had the latest debate on the UK government welfare
:06:36. > :06:38.reforms. A Sheffield Hallum University report found the cuts
:06:38. > :06:41.would take more than �1.5 billion out of the Scottish economy.
:06:41. > :06:44.Conservatives and Lib Dem MSPs said Scotland was not being hit harder
:06:44. > :06:47.and said reform was necessary to get the budget under control.
:06:47. > :06:53.However, a Labour MSP began the debate, recounting evidence heard
:06:53. > :06:57.in the Welfare Reform Committee. To hear a woman break down in tears,
:06:57. > :07:01.talking about having to eke out her money back eating toast for a week
:07:01. > :07:11.because of the money she is going to lose on the bedroom tax, I think
:07:11. > :07:16.
:07:16. > :07:21.that would leave anyone shedding a tear for that woman. We also heard
:07:21. > :07:26.from people with learning disabilities. People who have a
:07:26. > :07:33.steady, supported lifestyles at the moment. Up married couple with
:07:33. > :07:40.learning disabilities, both of them, fearful of losing their home of.
:07:40. > :07:44.For anyone not to be moved by what we heard this morning, and not to
:07:44. > :07:50.want to see changes to the welfare reforms that have been implemented,
:07:50. > :07:54.I think it would be beyond anyone's measure. I welcomed the report and
:07:54. > :07:59.the work of the committee in general. It is a very valuable
:07:59. > :08:05.contribution to what is a growing body of evidence on the dreadful
:08:05. > :08:10.and heartbreaking impact of the UK Government's welfare reform agenda.
:08:10. > :08:15.The Independent experts from Sheffield Hallam University have
:08:15. > :08:25.reached very much the same conclusions as the Scottish
:08:25. > :08:31.government. Vast sums are being taken out of the local economy
:08:31. > :08:37.across Scotland as a result of these reforms. The numbers are
:08:37. > :08:47.alarming. When the reforms take a full effect, they will take more
:08:47. > :08:56.
:08:56. > :09:06.than �1.6 billion are you out of A does that mean she is opposed to
:09:06. > :09:09.
:09:09. > :09:19.all of the reforms? If we live then it is a supporter of the UK
:09:19. > :09:26.
:09:26. > :09:36.Government -- Willie Rennie government, would listen, he would
:09:36. > :09:38.
:09:38. > :09:42.learn a lot. Over the five years, the total of the impact it will be
:09:42. > :09:47.�4.5 billion taken out of the pockets of people working hard on
:09:47. > :09:55.lower incomes, families, people with disabilities, social housing
:09:55. > :10:05.tenants, people in vulnerable circumstances. We cannot talk about
:10:05. > :10:11.
:10:11. > :10:16.welfare reform in a vacuum. We cannot just oppose change. In that
:10:16. > :10:21.this debate so far, as with previous debates, no one has
:10:21. > :10:30.suggested hope they might do it differently. Unless we are prepared
:10:30. > :10:33.to talk in those terms, we are making no progress in this debate.
:10:33. > :10:35.Let's get some political reaction now at Holyrood from the SNP's
:10:35. > :10:38.Christine Graham who chairs the Scottish Parliament's Justice
:10:38. > :10:47.Committee, Lewis Macdonald from Scottish Labour and Mary Scanlon of
:10:47. > :10:52.the Scottish Conservatives. We have been discussing the
:10:52. > :10:59.controversial report from the drinks industry, heavily criticised
:10:59. > :11:04.now. You must be delighted at that? I am not delighted by the fact that
:11:04. > :11:11.Parliament of a government has been allegedly misled. I am not happy at
:11:11. > :11:16.all. I have written to the current chair of the health committee
:11:16. > :11:20.suggesting that he takes evidence from Dr Jim McCambridge who has
:11:20. > :11:25.criticised at the evidence against unit pricing that the industry has
:11:25. > :11:29.given. I have also suggested that the people who spoke to that
:11:29. > :11:35.evidence be brought before the committee to air these matters. It
:11:35. > :11:39.is still very important as there is a continuing court case at the
:11:39. > :11:44.Court of Session. It is incumbent on anyone giving evidence to our
:11:44. > :11:52.Parliament to do so honestly and apparently this has not happened.
:11:52. > :12:02.If Dr Jim my Cambridge -- Dr Jim McCambridge who carried out the
:12:02. > :12:09.report did give evidence, would you then recall ever -- representatives
:12:09. > :12:14.from the drinks industry? There must be balanced. If Dr Jim
:12:14. > :12:22.McCambridge has serious allegations, it should be appropriate that the
:12:22. > :12:29.opposite side has the opportunity to rebut of those allegations.
:12:29. > :12:36.Lewis MacDonald, your party has been through a traumatic time on
:12:36. > :12:41.this policy, some may say you have box yourself into a corner. I do
:12:41. > :12:48.not agree with the characterisation of our position. I think the
:12:49. > :12:57.decisions on this policy depend on what the impact of a change of
:12:57. > :13:01.policy will be. Academics will always criticise each other's work.
:13:01. > :13:07.At the end of the day however, it is for Parliament to make a
:13:07. > :13:12.judgment on the basis of information. Well at this make a
:13:12. > :13:17.critical difference to the consumption of alcohol? We will
:13:17. > :13:21.have to await and see. Was your party not relying on evidence
:13:21. > :13:28.coming from the drinks industry which according to Dr McCambridge
:13:28. > :13:32.was not reliable? No, I do not think that is correct. Our party
:13:32. > :13:41.took the view that the evidence should come from a number of
:13:41. > :13:48.different of directions on these matters. Dr Jim McCambridge has
:13:48. > :13:52.made his point, and others will want to respond to that. The
:13:52. > :14:01.question now is what is the combatants of their legislation
:14:01. > :14:04.that has been passed? You changed your mind on this policy, do you
:14:04. > :14:14.feel that previously you were misled by the drinks industry?
:14:14. > :14:39.
:14:39. > :14:43.Perhaps you were relying on evidence available. We did agree to
:14:43. > :14:48.minimum pricing, but only on the basis that it did with stand the
:14:48. > :14:53.legal challenge, which of course is now an issue in the European
:14:53. > :14:57.Parliament. But secondly, we also insisted and we won a concession
:14:57. > :15:03.that there could be a sun set clause, because there is no doubt
:15:03. > :15:07.that a minimum price would have a devastating effect on our whisky
:15:07. > :15:11.exports and I think I can only talk for the Scottish whisky association,
:15:11. > :15:18.we have got some compelling evidence from them which I think would stand
:15:18. > :15:24.up in any court. Now, we are hearing that the Portman Group, which
:15:24. > :15:28.campaigns for the drinks industry and social responsibility, has
:15:28. > :15:32.disputed the Mac-Cambridge report. What steps should the Parliament
:15:32. > :15:36.take. Is there a possibility that representatives from the drinks
:15:36. > :15:44.industry should be recalled to perhaps give more evidence? We can
:15:44. > :15:48.haul over the coals and this Parliament has got an enor mouts --
:15:48. > :15:54.enormous agenda and minimum pricing has gone through Parliament and been
:15:54. > :16:03.voted on by a majority. As I said, with the clauses that we won. I
:16:04. > :16:09.think it is now to look at -time to look at the whisky industry and
:16:09. > :16:13.their legal challenge and move on from there. We can look at it all
:16:13. > :16:17.over again. I am not sure the health committee would wish to do that.
:16:17. > :16:21.That would be a decision for the chairman of the committee, if nay
:16:21. > :16:26.feel evidence was spurious, perhaps we should have another vote. I doubt
:16:26. > :16:31.that would be wise. May I challenge that? I think the issue here is the
:16:31. > :16:35.quality and the responsibility for evidence that is given to any
:16:35. > :16:39.committee in the Parliament. This is not just evidence that conflicts
:16:39. > :16:43.with other evidence, but evidence that has been considered to be
:16:43. > :16:47.distorted, biassed. If that is the case, and the evidence has been
:16:47. > :16:50.construed in such a way to come to results that can't be justified,
:16:50. > :16:56.then it must be tested by this Parliament where it was placed in
:16:56. > :17:00.the first place. Certainly if that happened on the Justice Committee, I
:17:00. > :17:04.am clear, I want to recall any witnesses, as I have done before
:17:04. > :17:09.when I felt evidence was not appropriately given. Well let's move
:17:09. > :17:14.on to another subject that affects the Justice Committee, the money
:17:14. > :17:20.saving plans to close ten Sheriff Courts and seven justice of the
:17:20. > :17:27.peace courts. The Justice Committee will hold anchingry into that --
:17:27. > :17:32.hold an inquiry into that. You said you opposed the closure of the court
:17:32. > :17:38.in Galashiels. No, in Peebles. Well in your own area. What stance do you
:17:38. > :17:45.take on court closures? I have two roles, I chair the Justice Committee
:17:45. > :17:46.and I'm a constituency MSP. I fought against the closure of Peebles court
:17:46. > :17:53.under the Labour/Liberal administration and I continue to
:17:53. > :17:58.fight it. But I have a B plan, as my mother said, don't put all your eggs
:17:58. > :18:03.in one basket. I am campaigning to have a justice centre in Galashiels.
:18:03. > :18:06.But I haven't given up the fight for Peebles. And I understand the
:18:06. > :18:13.position of other MSPs in areas where the local court is under
:18:13. > :18:18.threat. I put in a submission to the Court Service opposing the closure
:18:18. > :18:23.of Peebles Sheriff Court. The Justice Committee will take two days
:18:23. > :18:28.of evidence, some from professionals, some from users of
:18:28. > :18:33.the court before we have the cabinet Secretary and Lord Gill, because
:18:33. > :18:40.there are other issues coming up, before we have them before us for
:18:40. > :18:47.evidence. Is it awkward as you press Kenny MacAskill to stave off his
:18:47. > :18:53.closure but you have to toe the SNP line? I am not known for that. This
:18:53. > :18:58.will be news to me. My B plan is to ensure that justice in the borders
:18:58. > :19:04.remains in the borders, I don't want it transferred to Edinburgh. If I
:19:04. > :19:14.can't keep Peebles, I want a Gala justice centre. Lewis Macdonald,
:19:14. > :19:18.this plan has been put in place to save money and there are mrachlt Bs
:19:18. > :19:24.to -- plan Bs to move justice from the old spots, but keep it local.
:19:24. > :19:32.What we have heard from Christine dpram is -- Christine Grahame is
:19:32. > :19:36.encouraging. Not only is there today's debate, but also secondly as
:19:36. > :19:40.convenor of the Justice Committee she will have before her the
:19:40. > :19:46.statutory instruments without which the closures cannot happen. I hope
:19:46. > :19:51.we will see SNP members on the Justice Committee unite with other
:19:51. > :19:55.parties to vote down the proposal and force the Government to think
:19:55. > :20:01.again about how to secure the local delivery of justice across Scotland.
:20:01. > :20:06.Not just in the Borders, but in the Highlands and the north-east.
:20:06. > :20:10.will depend on the evidence. I am glad to hear that, but opt evidence
:20:10. > :20:15.-- on the evidence we have seen there is strong opposition to a
:20:15. > :20:20.range of court closures. I hope we see Parliament reject them. So some
:20:20. > :20:26.of these out of date courts, you think they should be kept open. It
:20:26. > :20:31.will save the Court Service one. Three annually. There are tiny
:20:31. > :20:36.savings to be realised at the cost of enormous inconvenience to local
:20:37. > :20:40.communities, county towns from Dingwall to Haddington, Peebles to
:20:40. > :20:44.Stonehaven, which will lose access to their local courts and where the
:20:44. > :20:53.neighbouring city courts like Aberdeen and Edinburgh will be faced
:20:53. > :20:58.with a vast quantity of business. want to hear from Mary Scanlon.
:20:58. > :21:02.Taken justice from people, or an essential money-saving measure.
:21:02. > :21:06.have to think about the victims and the witnesses. If there is any way
:21:06. > :21:11.this measure is going to affect people in the Highlands, many have
:21:11. > :21:16.to take a ferry and travel hundreds of miles to get to danger wall.
:21:17. > :21:22.There is huge opposition in the Highlands. We are already told that
:21:22. > :21:27.Inverness is overwhelmed, hugely busy and there is already a delay in
:21:27. > :21:32.accessing justice. We need to know what the will be the difference in
:21:32. > :21:36.the delay and access to justice will be very difficult with court
:21:36. > :21:41.closures and the hundreds of miles that people have to travel already
:21:41. > :21:51.and I hope that Christine's committee will visit the Highland
:21:51. > :21:54.
:21:54. > :21:59.and she will listen to the concerns that have come my way. Thank you.
:21:59. > :22:04.Hamish McDonnell joins me again. A fiery debate there on court
:22:04. > :22:11.closures. An essential measure, or do you think it is important that
:22:11. > :22:14.justice is kept locally? I think this is a very good example of the
:22:14. > :22:19.difficulty that governments have when they're trying to implement
:22:19. > :22:25.cuts which affect local areas. It is all very well if there are cuts in a
:22:25. > :22:30.department and they are made centrally. But in this one, there is
:22:30. > :22:34.a specific number of local courts which are being targeted and will be
:22:34. > :22:38.closed, because the Scottish Government needs to make cuts, or
:22:38. > :22:43.departments need to make cuts. So it is is putting the government on the
:22:43. > :22:49.one side against local MSPs on the other, all of whom appear determined
:22:49. > :22:54.to save their courts. So it is a good example of government against
:22:54. > :22:59.MSPs and a lot of SNP MSPs having to make a choice between local
:22:59. > :23:03.interests and party government interests. So this will run and run.
:23:03. > :23:09.Awkward for a lot of people like Christine Grahame, who is
:23:10. > :23:14.campaigning to keep her court open, but is looking at a plan B. I think
:23:14. > :23:19.that any MSP will be looking to some kind of a compromise. I think Kenny
:23:19. > :23:23.MacAskill will find he is being lobbied from MSPs, each one
:23:23. > :23:27.determined if not to save those Sheriff Courts then to get something
:23:27. > :23:30.else to keep that justice local. So I think that Kenny MacAskill has a
:23:30. > :23:34.tough time. But I think that government has to take these
:23:34. > :23:42.decisions. This is what cuts are about and this is the environment in
:23:42. > :23:47.which we live. Thank you. Now our weekly live coverage of the chamber
:23:47. > :23:52.and today it is a ministerial statement on making the most of
:23:52. > :24:01.Scotland's canals. The Transport Minister is taking questions in the
:24:01. > :24:04.chamber. Let's join that now. thank the minister for sight of his
:24:04. > :24:12.statement and congratulate him on having achieved a change in the
:24:12. > :24:17.structure of the body that looks after Scotland's canals, through a
:24:17. > :24:23.process of evolution, rather than revolution and seems to have arrived
:24:23. > :24:29.at the satisfaction of most of those involved. And by ensuring that
:24:30. > :24:36.Scottish canals will continue to receive government funding, but
:24:36. > :24:42.encouraging them to have earned income schemes he has succeeded in
:24:42. > :24:47.the partial privatisation of the industry. Having dealt with the
:24:47. > :24:53.issues of funding, I'm concerned that the prospect of economic sus
:24:53. > :24:57.stainability will require capital investment, as has been the case.
:24:57. > :25:01.Can the minister say if the structure he has achieved will be
:25:01. > :25:06.appropriate in order to attract adequate levels of capital
:25:06. > :25:13.investment in the long-term, or whether the Government itself plans
:25:13. > :25:18.to continue to be the main source of capital for the canal structures in
:25:19. > :25:22.Scotland. Can I thank Alex for his congratulations on achieving the
:25:22. > :25:27.independent status of Scottish canals. It is not true to say there
:25:27. > :25:34.is any element of privatisation. Local authorities have certained --
:25:34. > :25:41.earned sources of incomes. And that is what we are asking them to do. In
:25:41. > :25:45.relation to the sustainable of -- sustainability of capital funding,
:25:45. > :25:50.that is an important point. We have encouraged and will continue to
:25:50. > :25:55.encourage Scottish cams to work in -- canals to work with other
:25:55. > :25:58.agencies. The projects in Glasgow have been done working with private
:25:58. > :26:04.sector agencies and local authorities. The more we can can do
:26:04. > :26:09.that, there are substantial gains for canals and users and those who
:26:09. > :26:12.may want to invest to bring funding in. The more we can do that, the
:26:12. > :26:21.more benefit we see. And the less the Government has to commit to
:26:21. > :26:25.that, that allows us to invest resources elsewhere. We won't allow
:26:25. > :26:31.the canals to return to the situation they were. We will make
:26:31. > :26:39.sure that progress is continue and bring on other sources of funding.
:26:39. > :26:45.The minister will know that the Cal conian -- Caledonian canal is
:26:45. > :26:48.important to my constituency. you pull your microphone around?
:26:48. > :26:53.minister will know the Caledonian canal is important to my
:26:53. > :26:57.constituency in relation to commerce and tourism. I will be attending the
:26:57. > :27:03.canal reception tonight in the Parliament. Could I commend the
:27:03. > :27:10.Scottish Government and Scottish canals on the investment on the Cal
:27:10. > :27:15.done yab -- Caledonian canal. But these improvements must continue to
:27:15. > :27:20.reap the real benefits. Can the minister tell news more detail what
:27:20. > :27:26.he is going to do to encourage further growth in the number of
:27:27. > :27:31.vessels navigating our canals and particularly the Caledonian canal.
:27:31. > :27:35.Can I thank him for his question. The policy that has been set out
:27:35. > :27:40.does demonstrate the wish to see further growth in boats on the
:27:40. > :27:44.canals. It does try to encourage canals and other parties to work
:27:44. > :27:51.together to exploit the opportunities achieve this. Two
:27:51. > :27:55.example which may be applicable in different forms are those which are
:27:55. > :28:00.happening at the Forth and Clyde Canal. We have the issue of access,
:28:00. > :28:05.making sure it is as easy as possible and swroefr o' come --
:28:05. > :28:12.overcome the issue of narrow tidal access. That offers an opportunity
:28:12. > :28:16.to encourage more Tran sits across the canals. In relation to the
:28:16. > :28:21.Caledonian canal, we want to make sure that access is made as easy as
:28:21. > :28:27.possible for people and we are looking at opportunities for people
:28:27. > :28:36.living by the canal, there is a great interest in this and to see an
:28:36. > :28:42.increase in these opportunities. canal network was of course built to
:28:42. > :28:49.help to support the economy in our country and it is satisfactory to
:28:49. > :28:55.note in constituencies like mine the creative and sporting industries are
:28:55. > :29:00.being sparked off by the canal. I note in the minister's statement
:29:00. > :29:06.that he indicated that the Scottish canals would continue to receive
:29:06. > :29:10.government grant, but be encouraged to develop earned income streams.
:29:10. > :29:14.Could he say more about what those streams might be and also whether
:29:14. > :29:17.the Scottish Government has a view as to the balance between grant
:29:17. > :29:27.funding from the Scottish Government and money as a result of those
:29:27. > :29:28.
:29:28. > :29:31.particular income streams? I don't think there is a fixed view. We want
:29:32. > :29:35.to maximise other income streams. They can be revenue and capital. I
:29:35. > :29:39.have mentioned housing. If we can develop housing opportunities,
:29:39. > :29:43.perhaps with others contributing to that investment through other arms
:29:43. > :29:49.of government and through social or private providers, we can see
:29:49. > :29:58.increased income coming in t the canals. But we are seeing not least
:29:58. > :30:03.in the member's own constituency and she will know the uses which people
:30:03. > :30:08.are looking at in terms of canals, water-based and shore-based
:30:08. > :30:12.activities. People, whether it is canoes or boating, there is a great
:30:12. > :30:22.interest and if we maximise that interest and that will mean there is
:30:22. > :30:45.
:30:45. > :30:47.a revenue and that will increase the Now to Westminster and to Prime
:30:47. > :30:50.Minister's Questions. The Labour leader Ed Miliband focused on the
:30:50. > :30:53.state of the health service in England claiming it's in crisis.
:30:53. > :30:57.David Cameron had to deal with a succession of Labour MPs attacking
:30:57. > :30:59.his welfare reforms and he hit back saying, I thought it was the Labour
:30:59. > :31:02.party not the welfare party. The Prime Minister also faced a
:31:02. > :31:04.question from the SNP on the controversial Taylor donation to
:31:04. > :31:07.Better Together. He needs to explain why this crisis is
:31:07. > :31:10.happening on his watch. Let me give him the figures. For the whole of
:31:10. > :31:17.last year, we met the targets. If you take the number of occasions on
:31:17. > :31:23.which it was breached, 15 times in the last year, that was lower than
:31:23. > :31:28.the 23 times when he was in power. Those are the facts. There is one
:31:28. > :31:33.of part of the country where Labour have been in charge of the N H as
:31:33. > :31:43.for the last three years, that is Wales, where they have not had a
:31:43. > :31:48.
:31:48. > :31:53.target since 2009. -- NHS. Let me give him the figures. In 2009,
:31:53. > :32:02.340,000 people waited longer than four hours in accident and
:32:03. > :32:07.emergency. Last year, it was 888,000 people. This government it
:32:07. > :32:17.left office with a highest a patient satisfaction levels in the
:32:17. > :32:24.NHS. Part of the problem is that his replacement for the NHS Direct
:32:24. > :32:31.service is a total chaos -- is in total chaos. He has a patchwork,
:32:31. > :32:40.fragmented service were over Easter, 40% of calls were not answered and
:32:41. > :32:48.therefore abandoned. If anybody wants to see Labour's record it on
:32:48. > :32:52.and the NHS, they only have to look at their incidence in at Stafford
:32:52. > :32:57.hospital so. He mentions people waiting a long time for operations,
:32:57. > :33:04.that number has come down since this government came to office.
:33:04. > :33:10.Sense of this government came to office, there are more people
:33:10. > :33:15.having impatient treatment and waiting times are stable or down,
:33:15. > :33:20.waiting lists are down, the NHS is performing better under this
:33:20. > :33:27.government that it did under Labour. The Government is right to
:33:27. > :33:29.prioritise the combating of sexual violence in conflicts, but the
:33:29. > :33:33.prime minister would have more credibility on the subject if he
:33:33. > :33:43.did not accept hundreds of thousands of pounds and private
:33:43. > :33:47.
:33:47. > :33:57.dinners at Downing Street From Mr Ian Taylor, whose company has
:33:57. > :33:58.
:33:58. > :34:02.dealings with Serbian warlords. Will the Prime Minister stop
:34:02. > :34:11.hosting Mr Taylor at Downing Street and give the money back? First of
:34:11. > :34:19.all, let me thank the Honourable Gentleman for his comments. The
:34:19. > :34:29.government is putting a huge impetus on this, but it is
:34:29. > :34:30.
:34:30. > :34:36.regrettable that he is trying to play a political card. 600 hard
:34:36. > :34:43.working people have lost their jobs. The Tories closed the minds during
:34:44. > :34:48.the 1980s. Will he stand behind the opencast industry today? Are I am
:34:48. > :34:53.very happy to look at what she says. They want to support all of our
:34:53. > :34:57.industries in Britain, including the coal industry were ever it is.
:34:58. > :35:07.In it Scotland, since the election, the number of people in work has
:35:07. > :35:13.gone up. I am happy to look at the particular example she gives.
:35:13. > :35:18.Let's cross to Westminster now and speak to our correspondent Tim Reid.
:35:18. > :35:26.The Home Secretary made it a hot statement about Abu Qatada. -- made
:35:26. > :35:31.a statement. Yes, Theresa May is under pressure
:35:31. > :35:37.over the deportation of Abu Qatada. She and successive home secretaries
:35:37. > :35:42.have failed to deport the radical preacher back to Jordan. It seemed
:35:42. > :35:45.yesterday as if it was the last throw of the dice. The Court of
:35:45. > :35:50.Appeal has a refused leave to the government it to go to the Supreme
:35:50. > :35:57.Court on this and challenge it. Two things are being done by Theresa
:35:57. > :36:02.May. They will appeal a directly to the Supreme Court is self. That
:36:02. > :36:06.will have to be on a matter of legal practice, some think in law
:36:06. > :36:12.which the Court of Appeal has not found in the government's favour.
:36:12. > :36:19.She has signed, the UK Government has signed a treaty with Jordan
:36:19. > :36:29.which, in her words, will make it possible to deport Abu Qatada or
:36:29. > :36:33.
:36:33. > :36:37.because it has guarantees in that the Jordan will not torture him --
:36:37. > :36:47.guarantees that Jordan will not torture him. That paves the way for
:36:47. > :36:47.
:36:47. > :36:57.him to be deported according to Theresa May. But it may have to go
:36:57. > :37:05.
:37:05. > :37:09.I think Tory MPs have been drilled to stick up for the government on
:37:09. > :37:13.government policies, particularly on welfare reform. There was a
:37:13. > :37:20.challenge from one Labour MP who has suggested that the fitness for
:37:20. > :37:28.work tests are not fit for purpose in terms of welfare reform. She
:37:28. > :37:36.suggested that one of her constituentss had been declared fit
:37:36. > :37:41.and was actually dead. His point is they have opposed at every stage
:37:41. > :37:48.some of the welfare reforms that he is trying to introduce and defended
:37:48. > :37:52.his government's proposals and determination to get people back
:37:52. > :37:55.into work and off benefits. Thank you very much.
:37:55. > :37:58.A decision on whether to back proposals for a Royal charter to
:37:58. > :38:05.support a new press regulation system will be made by Scotland's
:38:05. > :38:07.political parties tomorrow. The Scottish Government wants to make a
:38:07. > :38:09.number of amendments including appropriate respect for those who
:38:09. > :38:13.have died. Margaret Watson has complained about the press
:38:13. > :38:21.treatment of her murdered daughter in the Herald newspaper. Yesterday,
:38:21. > :38:27.the Culture Committee heard from her and the paper's editor.
:38:28. > :38:35.The article was inaccurate, insensitive and should not have
:38:35. > :38:44.been published. It was an opinion piece. I would defend anyone's
:38:44. > :38:50.right to say that. He was writing about the treatment of a young girl
:38:50. > :38:55.in the judicial system. He made that point badly, it was lazy
:38:55. > :39:05.journalism. After the article was written, the paper should have
:39:05. > :39:05.
:39:05. > :39:14.apologised to the family and they should have made sure the offensive
:39:14. > :39:21.comments were deleted. But unfortunately they were repeated.
:39:21. > :39:31.What they went through was dreadful. My immediate predecessor has
:39:31. > :39:33.
:39:33. > :39:37.apologised. But trying to introduce some form of law of defamation for
:39:37. > :39:43.the dead or bringing in some kind of regulatory approach to it is
:39:43. > :39:49.fundamentally wrong. The deceased's good game should not be dragged
:39:49. > :39:54.through the mud without any good reason. There has to be some sort
:39:54. > :40:01.of provision put him to give some protection to families who have
:40:01. > :40:11.lost someone. I hope this Parliament will take it seriously.
:40:11. > :40:11.
:40:11. > :40:19.I have no doubt that defamation of the deceased will not be introduced.
:40:19. > :40:24.I am quite aware of that. But police put some provision end.
:40:24. > :40:30.Please allow this to prevent our evidence before some sort of
:40:30. > :40:35.tribunal. It does not have to be before a court. But as long as it
:40:35. > :40:38.is an independent. Put an end to the family's distress. They are
:40:38. > :40:46.under enough pressure without having to deal with the media at
:40:46. > :40:49.the same time. The Scottish government's position is that there
:40:49. > :40:57.should be independent self regulation. Membership is voluntary
:40:57. > :41:02.but encouraged by incentives and triggered by the regulator. Lord
:41:02. > :41:06.Justice Leveson envisaged that the mechanism for recognising the body
:41:06. > :41:11.would be statute. Under the agreement reached by the three
:41:11. > :41:17.largest parties at Westminster, that new regulatory body would
:41:17. > :41:22.achieve recognition by a body established by a Royal Charter. The
:41:22. > :41:32.content is what more the this and envisaged. It is important to
:41:32. > :41:32.
:41:32. > :41:36.acknowledge that the campaign has acknowledged this. While at the
:41:36. > :41:41.Scottish government wants to take account of the committee's findings,
:41:41. > :41:51.we do think that Scottish participation in a charter would be
:41:51. > :41:59.a way to implement Leveson in Scotland. Let's get some final
:41:59. > :42:05.thoughts from our political commentator Hamish Macdonnell.
:42:05. > :42:15.What will they agree tomorrow? think they will try to keep
:42:15. > :42:17.
:42:17. > :42:22.Scotland in the UK framework. Regulation is devolved to Scotland.
:42:22. > :42:27.After that, there are some problems. Major problems will have to be are
:42:27. > :42:33.and I have to try to get Scots law and English law to meet on this one
:42:33. > :42:38.issue. What are those big issues that need to be ironed out? One of
:42:38. > :42:44.the big ones is over this question of exemplary damages. Under the
:42:44. > :42:50.system proposed by David Cameron's, to persuade newspapers to come
:42:51. > :42:55.under their arm of the regulatory body, exemplary damages allowed for
:42:55. > :43:04.under English law. There is no provision under Scots law for this
:43:04. > :43:08.principle. There are some lawyers who say they just cannot be. That
:43:08. > :43:12.is one concrete issue what Scots issue and English law or apart and
:43:12. > :43:19.at trying to fit them both under the same umbrella of press
:43:19. > :43:27.regulation, the lawyers will have to work at this. I think that was
:43:27. > :43:32.the same committee Fiona Hyslop was talking about? The Scottish
:43:32. > :43:39.government set up this commission to look into the issue of press
:43:40. > :43:49.regulation and a Lord McCluskey. Most people find it went far too
:43:50. > :43:51.
:43:51. > :44:01.far. It has got to the stage for the minister is distancing herself
:44:01. > :44:03.
:44:03. > :44:07.under government as well. Three years in power for David Miliband
:44:07. > :44:16.and David Cameron? Yes, it has been a tough three years for David
:44:16. > :44:20.Cameron. He would wish the economy wasn't a better shape? Yes,
:44:20. > :44:28.everything for this government is being judged on the economy. That
:44:28. > :44:37.was set out at the start. They have struggled to hit any of the targets.
:44:37. > :44:46.That will dominate for the next two years. Thank you very much for that.