:00:18. > :00:19.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland.
:00:20. > :00:21.Coming up on the programme this afternoon...
:00:22. > :00:25.With the UK now on a "critical" alert after the Manchester bomb -
:00:26. > :00:28.security has been stepped up around the country.
:00:29. > :00:30.We'll hear from the First Minister as she updates
:00:31. > :00:37.Campaigning for the general election continues to be suspended -
:00:38. > :00:39.we get the latest from Westminster and we'll update you with
:00:40. > :00:46.Good afternoon - thanks for being with us today.
:00:47. > :00:48.With me throughout the programme is Professor John Curtice.
:00:49. > :00:54.Thank you for being with us. Much more from you later.
:00:55. > :00:56.Firstly, let's go straight to Manchester - a city in mourning
:00:57. > :00:59.after the attack at the Arena on Monday night, which claimed 22
:01:00. > :01:07.Our reporter Rebecca Curran is there now.
:01:08. > :01:17.Rebecca, can you update us on the situation where you are just now?
:01:18. > :01:21.Yes. Firstly there have been three more arrests in Manchester today.
:01:22. > :01:25.Police trying to establish whether or not the attacker was working
:01:26. > :01:30.alone. We know they were made in the south of the city in the early hours
:01:31. > :01:35.of this morning but I do the heart of Manchester city centre, we are at
:01:36. > :01:39.St John's Square. All these people coming to leave floral tributes. All
:01:40. > :01:45.of these tributes from Manchester Town Hall had been moved up and what
:01:46. > :01:49.a sight to behold. They have been left here and put next to floral
:01:50. > :01:53.tributes that were already here. People have been coming all day to
:01:54. > :01:58.pay their respects and they have been writing messages both on the
:01:59. > :02:02.concrete and they have been leaving messages on the statue behind me. If
:02:03. > :02:07.I has but today said that despite how busy it is here it is so quiet.
:02:08. > :02:10.People stand shoulder to shoulder not necessarily saying anything to
:02:11. > :02:13.each other but just wanting to pay their respects. There are a team of
:02:14. > :02:18.street pastors here as well. They say they are here to support to
:02:19. > :02:21.anyone who might need it. I spoke to a woman and her 15-year-old daughter
:02:22. > :02:28.hero they who were involved in the attack on Monday night. People were
:02:29. > :02:32.starting to come out and be something would be coming soon and
:02:33. > :02:37.so was just this huge bang. I can't even describe the sound of it. This
:02:38. > :02:43.loudness that shook the whole building. People dropped and then
:02:44. > :02:47.got to their feet and were running and screaming. Where me and my
:02:48. > :02:53.friend had come out we were heading to the fore yet because that was the
:02:54. > :02:57.exit. If we had left ten seconds earlier we wouldn't have been there
:02:58. > :03:04.when it happened because we were two blocks away from it. Obviously we
:03:05. > :03:07.are and in an increased security state at the moment. You don't have
:03:08. > :03:13.to look far to see the extra officers here in Manchester city
:03:14. > :03:17.centre. Two police were behind me on horseback. We have seen armed
:03:18. > :03:21.officers today but people have seen many more. And above that there is a
:03:22. > :03:26.huge number of police vehicle stall in the area and that huge cordon
:03:27. > :03:30.remains around Manchester Arena. We have been told to expect that
:03:31. > :03:35.increased police presence and more armed officers on the street and
:03:36. > :03:38.both Prime Minister Theresa May and First Minister Nicola Sturgeon
:03:39. > :03:43.uphold the public they should not be unduly alarmed but to remain
:03:44. > :03:52.vigilant. What is the latest on the two girls from Barra who were caught
:03:53. > :03:54.up in the attack? We know that 15-year-old Laura MacIntyre from
:03:55. > :03:59.Barra has been found alive in hospital. We learned that last
:04:00. > :04:02.night. She is understood to being treated for serious injuries
:04:03. > :04:07.including burns and her family who flew down from Barra are said to be
:04:08. > :04:10.at her bedside. Unfortunately we don't have any more news about her
:04:11. > :04:16.friend 14-year-old Elidh MacLeod. She remains unaccounted for. The two
:04:17. > :04:23.girls had attended the concert together and hasn't been seen since.
:04:24. > :04:26.Greater Manchester Police have said their officers are supporting Elidh
:04:27. > :04:30.MacLeod's family. They can confirm at this point how many people remain
:04:31. > :04:34.missing. Rebecca Curren in Manchester, thank you for all stop
:04:35. > :04:36.Now, as we came on air the First Minister was just
:04:37. > :04:38.finishing a statement and press briefing.
:04:39. > :04:47.Presiding Officer I'm grateful for the opportunity to give parliament a
:04:48. > :04:50.further update following the awful events in Manchester on Monday
:04:51. > :04:53.night. In particular are thought to be appropriate to set up the
:04:54. > :04:57.implications of the decision taken last night by JTAC the Joint
:04:58. > :05:02.Terrorism Analysis Centre to raise the security threat level from
:05:03. > :05:05.severe too critical. I received a briefing last night in the UK
:05:06. > :05:10.Government national Security adviser on the reasons behind that decision.
:05:11. > :05:15.I have spoken to him again within the last hour. Clearly it would not
:05:16. > :05:19.be appropriate to go into detail into what is an ongoing
:05:20. > :05:23.investigation. However the increase in the threat level is due to a
:05:24. > :05:26.concerned that the attackers were carried out the atrocity at the
:05:27. > :05:30.Manchester arena may not have been acting alone and that therefore it
:05:31. > :05:34.is possible that is a further terrorist attack could be imminent.
:05:35. > :05:40.However it is important to be very clear that it remains the case that
:05:41. > :05:43.no specific threat to Scotland has been identified. In light of the
:05:44. > :05:47.increase in the threat level I took the decision last thing to convene a
:05:48. > :05:50.further meeting of the Scottish Government's resilience Committee.
:05:51. > :05:54.That took place in the early hours of this morning involving the Deputy
:05:55. > :05:58.First Minister, Justice Secretary, Lord of the Kent the Fire and Rescue
:05:59. > :06:05.Service, Ambulance Service and the regional partnerships. . That was an
:06:06. > :06:09.opportunity for us to discuss the immediate implications for Scotland
:06:10. > :06:12.of the heightened security status. Clearly this is something that will
:06:13. > :06:18.be kept under ongoing review, taking account of any intelligence
:06:19. > :06:22.available to the police. As the Chief Constable indicated this
:06:23. > :06:26.morning police Scotland have now established a multi agency
:06:27. > :06:29.coordination centre, a governing police says -- station to lead
:06:30. > :06:32.response across the country and with key partners. Over city centre later
:06:33. > :06:35.this afternoon to see its operations from itself and receive first big
:06:36. > :06:41.thing about the nature of the response. However I want outlined
:06:42. > :06:44.today, as clearly as is possible at this stage, what some of the
:06:45. > :06:49.practical consequences for Scotland are likely to be over the next few
:06:50. > :06:54.days and what the public can expect to see. I know there have been media
:06:55. > :06:57.discussion in particular about the use of military personnel to support
:06:58. > :07:05.the police in their duties under what is known as Operation Temperer.
:07:06. > :07:07.Operation Temperer is an established plan from mobilising military
:07:08. > :07:11.support to the police service following a major terrorist attack.
:07:12. > :07:16.The decision about whether to authorise it is a matter of the UK
:07:17. > :07:20.Government. Operation Temperer as two distinct phases. The first phase
:07:21. > :07:24.involves the deployment of the military to sites currently provided
:07:25. > :07:29.with armed policing by Ministry of Defence Police and Civil Nuclear
:07:30. > :07:33.Constabulary. This frees up those armed police officers to support
:07:34. > :07:37.police forces across the UK. The second phase involves the deployment
:07:38. > :07:40.of military personnel to support the police to guard specific sites under
:07:41. > :07:47.the control and direction of the police. It is important to stress
:07:48. > :07:49.Presiding Officer that at present only the first phase of Operation
:07:50. > :07:54.Temperer has been authorised. What this means in Scotland is that
:07:55. > :07:58.military personnel will be used at civil nuclear and Ministry of
:07:59. > :08:04.Defence sites here in Scotland. There are a total of 12 subsites in
:08:05. > :08:08.Scotland. Nine Ministry of Defence and three civil nuclear sites. These
:08:09. > :08:11.sites, which are not accessible to be general public, will be secured
:08:12. > :08:16.by the military as of today. The presence of military personnel at
:08:17. > :08:23.sites of this nature but in Scotland and across the UK will free up the
:08:24. > :08:27.armed police who are not normally on duty there and the Zampa police will
:08:28. > :08:32.create a tendency resource which can be deployed across the UK. Any
:08:33. > :08:36.decision to make use of that contingency resource in Scotland
:08:37. > :08:41.would be for the Chief Constable. However police Scotland have no
:08:42. > :08:44.plans at this stage to do so. They have confirmed that they have
:08:45. > :08:48.reviewed security across Scotland to ensure that the right level of
:08:49. > :08:51.policing is in place and that they can provide that level of policing
:08:52. > :08:57.from within their own resources. This is of course something that
:08:58. > :09:00.will be kept under review by Police Scotland. It is important to point
:09:01. > :09:09.out that they have made significant progress in the last year to around
:09:10. > :09:13.600 trained firearms officers in Scotland. They have also increased
:09:14. > :09:16.the number of officers on duty at any one time. As they moved to
:09:17. > :09:21.critical, police Scotland has effectively doubled the number of
:09:22. > :09:27.armed response vehicles on patrol since Monday night. It is likely the
:09:28. > :09:30.public will see more armed policing in future, particularly at transport
:09:31. > :09:34.hubs and around city centre. However, and it is maybe worth
:09:35. > :09:37.stressing at this point given the understandable attention that
:09:38. > :09:40.Operation Temperer is receiving, we do not currently envisaged that
:09:41. > :09:46.military personnel will be deployed on the street in Scotland or in
:09:47. > :09:48.other public locations. However as with all operational matters this
:09:49. > :09:53.will be kept under review by the Chief Constable. As I said, a moment
:09:54. > :09:56.ago, it is likely that the duration of the increased threat level the
:09:57. > :10:00.public will see more armed police on the streets than usual. Particularly
:10:01. > :10:05.around transport hubs and city centres. I want to be clear that
:10:06. > :10:08.this represents a specific response to the increased threat level
:10:09. > :10:13.following the Manchester attack. The threat level is kept under review
:10:14. > :10:17.and is only kept at this level as long as an attack is judged to be
:10:18. > :10:21.imminent. Therefore it should not indicate a more general of long-term
:10:22. > :10:27.shift in Scotland to having armed police on regular patrol. As I said
:10:28. > :10:30.yesterday the police are also completing a review of the public
:10:31. > :10:33.event due to take place over the next few weeks. This includes a full
:10:34. > :10:36.review together with the Scottish football Association of this we
:10:37. > :10:39.can's Scottish cup final to ensure that there is an appropriate
:10:40. > :10:45.deployment of police and stewards. This work is ongoing and the other
:10:46. > :10:49.major events being assessed include the visit on Friday of President
:10:50. > :10:53.Obama, the Edinburgh Marathon due to take place this weekend and the
:10:54. > :10:57.Lisbon Lions memorial event in Glasgow. In addition guidance is
:10:58. > :11:01.being issued to organisers of all large events. I want to stress that
:11:02. > :11:06.the aim here of the police is to allow public events to continue as
:11:07. > :11:09.far as possible as normal. However the public should anticipate
:11:10. > :11:14.additional safety measures at these events and these measured is Mike
:11:15. > :11:21.include full body and bike searches and the presence of armed police.
:11:22. > :11:24.For that reason as well as urging people to cooperate with the
:11:25. > :11:27.measures I urge people to leave extra time if they are going to an
:11:28. > :11:31.event or travelling through an airport train station. In all of
:11:32. > :11:34.this very clear aim is to strike a balance between protecting public
:11:35. > :11:38.safety and ensuring that day-to-day life goes on as normal. These
:11:39. > :11:43.enhanced security measures are part of how we aim to do that. As always
:11:44. > :11:48.the public have a role to play as well. A message to the public is
:11:49. > :11:53.this. This is clearly a very anxious time but there is no need to be
:11:54. > :11:58.alarmed. Many of the steps that are being taken now are precautionary. I
:11:59. > :12:02.repeat, there is no intelligence of a specific threat to Scotland.
:12:03. > :12:06.However I do love the public to be vigilant and to report any concerns
:12:07. > :12:10.or suspicions that they may have today police. Presiding Officer,
:12:11. > :12:13.before I finish today I also want to provide a further update to the
:12:14. > :12:19.chamber on the specific impact on Monday night's awful events. My
:12:20. > :12:21.thoughts and I am sure there everyone in the chamber remain with
:12:22. > :12:25.the families of those who have lost their lives, those victims who were
:12:26. > :12:29.injured and with the people of Manchester more generally. I can
:12:30. > :12:31.advise the chamber that Police Scotland family liaison officers are
:12:32. > :12:38.now currently in Manchester providing support to the families of
:12:39. > :12:40.Lori McIntire and Elidh MacLeod from Barratt toss Laura MacIntyre. There
:12:41. > :12:47.is significant information in the media about the condition of flora.
:12:48. > :12:53.However the families have requested privacy at this time and I do not
:12:54. > :13:03.intend to go into any further detail today. Supportable continue to be
:13:04. > :13:06.provided to them at this unimaginably different -- difficult
:13:07. > :13:12.time. They will want to know they are very much in our thoughts. More
:13:13. > :13:16.widely we know that in total seven people have presented at hospitals
:13:17. > :13:20.in Scotland. However I am pleased to report that all have been since
:13:21. > :13:23.discharge from hospital. It is possible that other people who
:13:24. > :13:27.witnessed the terror attack or its immediate aftermath have returned to
:13:28. > :13:30.Scotland and are feeling stressed or upset. Anyone with concerns about
:13:31. > :13:35.themselves or their children should contact their GP for support. Health
:13:36. > :13:38.boards have been reissued with an commission providing guidance to
:13:39. > :13:42.adults and children who have witnessed traumatic events. As I
:13:43. > :13:46.mentioned in my statement yesterday the events of Monday night were
:13:47. > :13:50.upsetting for all of us but they may have been especially upsetting for
:13:51. > :13:54.young people. So this is a time to ensure that parents and teachers
:13:55. > :14:01.talk to children about any concerns they have. We remain in contact with
:14:02. > :14:06.education Scotland to provide the support they need for those
:14:07. > :14:11.competitions. As a said earlier on I know that this is an anxious time
:14:12. > :14:14.for everybody across the UK. My message is that people should be
:14:15. > :14:19.vigilant but not alarmed. The steps I have been describing today are
:14:20. > :14:22.precautionary. Most importantly of all people should continue to go
:14:23. > :14:26.about their day-to-day business as normal. The Scottish Government rev
:14:27. > :14:33.-- resilience operation will remain open for the near future to ensure a
:14:34. > :14:36.response and I will continue to update Parliament is required. The
:14:37. > :14:41.Justice Secretary will also be happy to is big to any member who has
:14:42. > :14:44.concerns queries. Finally let me end, I'm sure on behalf of all of
:14:45. > :14:48.us, by putting on record again my heartfelt thanks to our emergency
:14:49. > :14:53.services. Their bravery and dedication is not news to us, but at
:14:54. > :15:05.times like these it never fails to inspire. We are grateful to each and
:15:06. > :15:07.every one of them. I'm joined by Professor John Curtice of
:15:08. > :15:11.Strathclyde University. The First Minister said to be vigilant but not
:15:12. > :15:15.alarmed, looking at precautionary measures, I suppose, after the
:15:16. > :15:20.Manchester attack. Reading between the lines, she's essentially saying,
:15:21. > :15:24.look, we are part of the United Kingdom, and a level of security has
:15:25. > :15:32.been raised to critical, and as a result, measures are being taken.
:15:33. > :15:35.Primarily, there are more Armed Forces on the streets. She seems to
:15:36. > :15:38.believe the moment there is no reason to believe that those who
:15:39. > :15:41.might be associated with the bomber, and clearly the concern is that the
:15:42. > :15:46.police as yet have not necessarily identified who may have helped this
:15:47. > :15:51.gentleman he responsible for this atrocity, that that does at least at
:15:52. > :16:00.the moment involve Scotland, and summarily, the reason we are at
:16:01. > :16:03.critical, is that the police are looking for people around the United
:16:04. > :16:08.Kingdom. There is no immediate concern that perhaps there might be
:16:09. > :16:12.an atrocity in Scotland. Alas, no one can ever release things out. Ten
:16:13. > :16:16.years ago, there was the Glasgow Airport attack, of course, but as
:16:17. > :16:20.the First Minister was pointing out, there has been a huge interest in
:16:21. > :16:28.the military being on the streets, but Nicola Sturgeon was saying that
:16:29. > :16:34.there will be soldiers present at nuclear bases. At Buckingham Palace,
:16:35. > :16:38.the military are being deployed, but in Scotland, the military will not
:16:39. > :16:42.be deployed in order to do jobs that policemen would do. All that has
:16:43. > :16:56.happened is, the military have been employed to help the Ministry of
:16:57. > :16:59.Defence at nuclear bases. What is clear to anyone who has been in
:17:00. > :17:06.Scotland in the last 36 hours is that there are more police officers,
:17:07. > :17:09.and armed ones, around than usual, and that is something that will
:17:10. > :17:14.continue in the coming days. What might you were talking about the
:17:15. > :17:19.First Minister working within the United Kingdom Security remit, as it
:17:20. > :17:23.were. Just a word about how that works with the Scottish Government's
:17:24. > :17:32.resilience Centre and the Cobra meetings in London.
:17:33. > :17:34.How the security that is graded is a matter of advice to the UK
:17:35. > :17:41.Government, which the Government tends to accept. In Scotland,
:17:42. > :17:49.policing is devolved, some in the end, operational decisions about how
:17:50. > :17:53.to respond and implement the changes is one for the chief police officer
:17:54. > :17:58.in Scotland, as the First Minister said, and it is for Scotland's own
:17:59. > :18:01.resilience committee to decide what measures take place in Scotland.
:18:02. > :18:05.Given the situation and what we know, she is saying, what should we
:18:06. > :18:15.do about Scotland in particular, given the UK wide threat situation?
:18:16. > :18:18.Policing is a devolved issue, but when it comes to the military, it is
:18:19. > :18:25.a close operation with the rest of the UK. If Police Scotland decided
:18:26. > :18:30.they needed the assistance of the military, it is clear that in this
:18:31. > :18:34.kind of instance, Police Scotland effectively, because the security
:18:35. > :18:37.threat has been raised, has the right to request the MoD to provide
:18:38. > :18:42.them with military personnel should they decide they need them. It is
:18:43. > :18:46.also clear from the First Minister's statement today is that no such
:18:47. > :18:53.request has been made north of the border. As John was pointing out,
:18:54. > :18:58.the Government here has not asked for troops to be deployed. It is
:18:59. > :19:01.expected the threat level will remain high for around ten days.
:19:02. > :19:06.Here's our home affairs correspondent, Reevel Alderson.
:19:07. > :19:11.Armed police on duty at Dundee railway station, a visible response
:19:12. > :19:15.to the Manchester bombing. They have been deployed in Inverness too in
:19:16. > :19:19.what police say is reassurance to the members of the public. Other
:19:20. > :19:26.major buildings like the Scottish Parliament now also see an armed
:19:27. > :19:30.presence after the UK's terrorist threat level was raised to critical.
:19:31. > :19:38.The last time this was done was in the aftermath of the Glasgow Airport
:19:39. > :19:41.attack. The heightened alert at that time lasted for four days, this time
:19:42. > :19:48.it could be longer. We are looking for 14 days. We're looking at
:19:49. > :19:53.resourcing events in Scotland over that time frame. That will be
:19:54. > :19:56.reviewed, as colleagues move the investigation forward and more
:19:57. > :20:00.intelligence becomes available, and we will respond as required. The
:20:01. > :20:05.first big test of the new arrangements will be on Saturday at
:20:06. > :20:11.Hampden Park for the Scottish cup final. Ministers are urging fans to
:20:12. > :20:13.be patient. We will have additional police resources, including firearms
:20:14. > :20:18.officers. Fans coming into the ground are likely to face a full
:20:19. > :20:21.body search will stop an important thing will be for those attending
:20:22. > :20:24.these events to give themselves more time to make sure they can get
:20:25. > :20:31.through the additional security measures that will be put in place.
:20:32. > :20:36.Troops will be deployed on guard duty is to nuclear installations
:20:37. > :20:40.such as Torness power station, and to nuclear defence installations
:20:41. > :20:46.such as the Clyde naval base. Police Scotland says it has no immediate
:20:47. > :20:50.plans to seek military help. It says it is confident it has sufficient
:20:51. > :20:52.armed officers of its own to meet current security requirements.
:20:53. > :20:58.I'm joined now by our Westminster correspondent, David Porter.
:20:59. > :21:04.David, looking at the security situation, where you are just now,
:21:05. > :21:08.now that we are at this critical level of raised security around you
:21:09. > :21:15.at the Palace of Westminster and at Buckingham Palace too, no doubt?
:21:16. > :21:17.There was a Cobra meeting this morning, and that follows the
:21:18. > :21:21.announcement by the Prime Minister yesterday that the level of security
:21:22. > :21:25.was going up, raced from severe to critical, which means they believe
:21:26. > :21:36.another terrorist attack could be imminent will stop I stress the word
:21:37. > :21:40.code. They believe it could happen. In the Houses of Parliament, police
:21:41. > :21:43.are being replaced by the Army today to provide security. They will be
:21:44. > :21:48.working under police direction, but the whole idea of this at Downing
:21:49. > :21:55.Street and Buckingham Palace is to free members of the police up, those
:21:56. > :21:59.armed officers from the Metropolitan Police, so that they are available
:22:00. > :22:04.for other operations if need be. Under this idea where you now have a
:22:05. > :22:09.critical sense of security, a critical terror threat, up to 4000
:22:10. > :22:14.troops could be deployed. At the moment, we understand that figure is
:22:15. > :22:17.in the region of about 1000 troops, but you very much get the
:22:18. > :22:20.impression, seeing what is coming out of Westminster here, and indeed
:22:21. > :22:27.what is going on in Manchester with police operations ongoing in the
:22:28. > :22:31.centre of Manchester today, that there is a feeling that Salman Abedi
:22:32. > :22:36.did not work on his own and there are accomplices out there. There is
:22:37. > :22:40.a concern that they want to try to stop anything potentially before it
:22:41. > :22:44.could happen. That is why the terror threat has been raised to critical.
:22:45. > :22:50.It doesn't happen very often. The last time was in 2007 full stop and
:22:51. > :22:52.it is not kept at that level for any longer than it has to, but there is
:22:53. > :22:58.an ongoing security operation following events in Manchester on
:22:59. > :23:06.Monday evening. And no one wants to take any chances. The military
:23:07. > :23:10.presence, and we will have seen this in 2007 as well, does it create a
:23:11. > :23:15.sense of tension, an unusual atmosphere perhaps, having the army
:23:16. > :23:20.seemingly out on the streets? It is a difficult one. It is a fine line
:23:21. > :23:23.to tread on, this one. To some extent, it reassures people that
:23:24. > :23:30.they know they are being protected. Others get very worried when they
:23:31. > :23:35.see troops but we are not used to that in Britain. Here in London, and
:23:36. > :23:38.particularly around Westminster, people are far more used to seeing
:23:39. > :23:45.armed police because of the security of the House of Commons, and it is
:23:46. > :23:49.noticeable that railway stations have armed police sometimes. People
:23:50. > :23:54.in London will be far more comfortable with it. Others
:23:55. > :23:59.throughout the UK, I think, will feel quite discomfited at seeing
:24:00. > :24:03.armed police around, and in certain instances, seeing troops being
:24:04. > :24:08.deployed. At this point in the programme, you would usually have
:24:09. > :24:12.some MPs with you to chat to. We are in the midst of a general election
:24:13. > :24:16.campaign, but we're not even really speaking about the ordinary
:24:17. > :24:22.campaigning, because that has been suspended too. Any indication as to
:24:23. > :24:27.when things might get back to some normality at least? No clarity on
:24:28. > :24:31.this yet, Andrew, although it does appear the consensus that
:24:32. > :24:37.campaigning ought to be suspended is starting to fray a little bit. UK
:24:38. > :24:41.are publishing their manifesto tomorrow and they say it would be
:24:42. > :24:44.giving in to terrorists if they suspended campaigning any longer. I
:24:45. > :24:48.must say, I do not get the impression that the other major
:24:49. > :24:52.parties are yet ready to start campaigning, and I would imagine
:24:53. > :24:56.that that news conference and manifesto launch from Ukip tomorrow,
:24:57. > :25:01.a lot of the questions they will be asked are, why are you launching a
:25:02. > :25:04.manifesto when the rest of the election campaign is still
:25:05. > :25:09.suspended? What I think will probably happen is that you will see
:25:10. > :25:13.a graduated return to the campaign, perhaps starting at local level,
:25:14. > :25:18.local leafleting, that type of thing. Speaking to some of those
:25:19. > :25:21.from the major parties down here at Westminster, they do seem to be
:25:22. > :25:30.thinking that it could be the weekend, and maybe even taking the
:25:31. > :25:35.bank holiday into account, it could be next week before things get back
:25:36. > :25:39.to pace. That will mean that a week of the general election campaign has
:25:40. > :25:43.been lost, for all intents and purposes. There is a feeling, I
:25:44. > :25:48.think, I most UK ministers and senior politicians from the other
:25:49. > :25:52.parties that while there is this very live security operation going
:25:53. > :25:57.on, that people are having to dedicate themselves to that, and it
:25:58. > :26:01.would be wrong while there are still children who are very severely
:26:02. > :26:05.injured, some of them fighting for their lives in hospital in
:26:06. > :26:08.Manchester, that it would be wrong to get back to campaigning. But we
:26:09. > :26:13.have a general election. We know it will be on the 8th of June. At some
:26:14. > :26:18.point, the campaigning will have to start, but I get the impression
:26:19. > :26:22.that, Ukip aside, it will take a graduated approach and we will not
:26:23. > :26:28.be back into the full pelt of politicians trading insults for some
:26:29. > :26:29.time to come. David Porter at Westminster, thank you very much.
:26:30. > :26:33.Professor John Curtice is here with me.
:26:34. > :26:42.Let's look at the suspension of campaigning - the lengthy suspension
:26:43. > :26:50.is unprecedented. As David was saying, we are thinking back to
:26:51. > :26:55.1997. That is the last time when a major event was interrupted for as
:26:56. > :27:00.long as a week. That was to do with the death of Diana Prince of Wales.
:27:01. > :27:09.That was because the nation was taken by grief rather than because
:27:10. > :27:11.of a security threat. Last year, Jo Cox was murdered before the EU
:27:12. > :27:16.referendum, which caused a suspension of around three days or
:27:17. > :27:19.so, but for a general election, this is undoubtedly the biggest
:27:20. > :27:28.interruption that has ever occurred. The nearest I can think of for a
:27:29. > :27:34.general election is a murder which graced the beginning of a general
:27:35. > :27:38.election campaign in 1979. That is probably the first election in which
:27:39. > :27:41.it began to be quite difficult to get access to senior politicians
:27:42. > :27:48.without security clearance, but even that did not cause the subsequent
:27:49. > :27:56.campaign to oppose. This is unprecedented, and we are seeing...
:27:57. > :27:59.As David Porter already said, some parties have already started local
:28:00. > :28:03.campaigning today and it will gradually gear up, but we have to
:28:04. > :28:07.remember, postal votes are already going out and some people will be
:28:08. > :28:13.voting in the next few days. I guess some people would say there clearly
:28:14. > :28:16.is a lot of and frankly there is shock about what has happened, which
:28:17. > :28:20.is one of the reasons why people don't want to get back into
:28:21. > :28:24.campaigning. On the other hand, some people will say, actually, in some
:28:25. > :28:29.sense, this is an attack on the British way of life, democracy etc,
:28:30. > :28:34.and if we allow this to suspend the democratic process, we are giving in
:28:35. > :28:41.to the terrorists. There will be judgment about the balance of those
:28:42. > :28:45.two sets of considerations. I am sure parliament might have been
:28:46. > :28:52.recalled after attacks such as this. It would have been in circumstances
:28:53. > :28:59.such as this, but we don't have a parliament with MPs. They have a
:29:00. > :29:04.Government operating in a caretaker role until the election. This is one
:29:05. > :29:08.of those events that we keep ministers in office for and that
:29:09. > :29:11.they are expected to deal with and take action is necessary. At the end
:29:12. > :29:19.of the day, somebody has to be responsible for the nature and --
:29:20. > :29:20.the nation. John, thank you for that just now.
:29:21. > :29:24.Today we have Linda Fabiani for the SNP, Colin Smyth
:29:25. > :29:26.for Scottish Labour, and Mike Rumbles from
:29:27. > :29:39.Thank you for joining me. In different and unusual political
:29:40. > :29:44.circumstances just now. Linda Fabiani, let's first talk about the
:29:45. > :29:46.security situation. Nicola Sturgeon meeting that statement in Parliament
:29:47. > :29:52.really saying to people that precautions are being taken but not
:29:53. > :29:56.to be alarmed. I think it was a very measured statement, it was very wide
:29:57. > :30:00.welcomed by everyone in the chamber and I felt from the general public
:30:01. > :30:05.that the First Minister has made such a statement. It seemed to me
:30:06. > :30:08.that precautions that had been taken are very proportionate to what is
:30:09. > :30:15.happening and of course we have to take precautions because of the
:30:16. > :30:21.security threat, so I think it was very plain. Everyone expected the
:30:22. > :30:27.decisions taken and this is certainly an issue that we all have
:30:28. > :30:29.to be as one. Ross Thompson from the Scottish Conservatives, you were
:30:30. > :30:36.watching a statement and I am sure you would agree with that. I agree
:30:37. > :30:40.with the sentiments there. It will be unsettling for many people across
:30:41. > :30:44.Scotland to see armed presence on our streets but we have to be clear
:30:45. > :30:50.it is absolutely necessary to ensure public safety at this time. And to
:30:51. > :30:55.ensure that this and life continue as normal and to stress that this is
:30:56. > :30:59.only a precaution. There is no intelligence to suggest any threat
:31:00. > :31:02.to this to this building, this city, to Scotland and people should
:31:03. > :31:08.continue with their normal lives as they would each and every day. Colin
:31:09. > :31:12.Smith from Labour, I suppose maybe people watching this may be worried
:31:13. > :31:16.seeing statement said this but I think the message is that
:31:17. > :31:22.politicians are trying to get out is to be worried, these are just
:31:23. > :31:25.precautions. Yes, this is sending a clear message to the public that we
:31:26. > :31:28.are taking precautions but they should go about their lives as
:31:29. > :31:33.normal as best they possibly can and they should be reassured by the
:31:34. > :31:35.additional police looking after us and it is important to pay tribute
:31:36. > :31:41.to the work they are doing to keep us safe. Mike Rumbles from the
:31:42. > :31:45.Liberal Democrats, you are a former military man of course. But some
:31:46. > :31:50.people be concerned at seeing soldiers in the streets of though
:31:51. > :31:55.some people will see them as providing vital security increasing
:31:56. > :31:58.for your safety? That this is absolutely true. We have complete
:31:59. > :32:02.confidence in the police and security services in doing their
:32:03. > :32:06.job. I think the key message to come across to the general public is to
:32:07. > :32:11.use that phrase keep calm and carry on. Go around your normal business
:32:12. > :32:15.but just be alert for unusual circumstances. What they mustn't do
:32:16. > :32:19.is change our behaviour and let the terrorists affect us in that way so
:32:20. > :32:25.keep calm, carry on and I think that is the message. Let's just turned to
:32:26. > :32:29.the campaign which are Westminster Correspondent David Ward was
:32:30. > :32:33.piloting. Linda Fabiani, political campaigning of course has been
:32:34. > :32:39.suspended just now and of course that is the right thing to do I
:32:40. > :32:43.sure. Of course it is. It shows respect for what has happened in
:32:44. > :32:50.Manchester, respect for the victims and the families. I know that all
:32:51. > :32:56.the parties here in Scotland are certainly talking about this and
:32:57. > :33:00.having discussions, because again, as I understand felt very strongly
:33:01. > :33:02.that we should be at one on this so note that discussions are ongoing
:33:03. > :33:09.about when it would be appropriate to start campaigning either
:33:10. > :33:12.nationally or locally again. I am not party to these discussions but I
:33:13. > :33:20.am certainly pleased that they are going ahead. Linda, it is perhaps a
:33:21. > :33:23.real show of political unity, these talks perhaps when the parties
:33:24. > :33:29.getting together to discuss about the right thing might be to do. I
:33:30. > :33:33.think that is right. We all have political differences and sometimes
:33:34. > :33:40.these are very stark and arguments get very heated, some things that
:33:41. > :33:43.happen transcend all of that. I think it is right across the
:33:44. > :33:49.Parliament, what we are concerned about is the current situation and
:33:50. > :33:54.as I say, respect and huge sympathy from Manchester and all those who
:33:55. > :33:58.have been affected by this, so sometimes the party politics is much
:33:59. > :34:05.less important than standing together. Ross Thomson, ball --
:34:06. > :34:10.party politics set aside just now and I think all politicians
:34:11. > :34:12.concerned about sensitivity at this point. Absolutely, it was the right
:34:13. > :34:16.thing to do to suspend the campaign. The last thing people want doing a
:34:17. > :34:20.time of grief and shock is politicians on their door or to have
:34:21. > :34:24.the knock-about of a political campaign so it is right to do spend
:34:25. > :34:28.locally and nationally and this is not the reasons of security but
:34:29. > :34:35.reasons of respect. It is important that we give people that time to
:34:36. > :34:41.reflect, which is really important in our country's history after this
:34:42. > :34:45.event has happened. Colin Smyth from Labour, Ross is talking about time
:34:46. > :34:49.to reflect and that time might seem to carry on for some while actually.
:34:50. > :34:53.Ukip look like they are launching their manifesto tomorrow but a lot
:34:54. > :34:58.of the other political parties not wanting to get started again
:34:59. > :35:02.campaigning quite a few days yet. That is right. I certainly don't
:35:03. > :35:06.agree with Ukip's decision. I think it is important we pay our respects
:35:07. > :35:09.and our thoughts are very much with the people in Manchester at this
:35:10. > :35:13.time. It would not be appropriate to have this campaign that would have
:35:14. > :35:18.normally during a journal collection. There will be some level
:35:19. > :35:22.of campaigning taking place and the Royal Mail will be delivering
:35:23. > :35:25.political party freepost leaflets and that will continue and that is
:35:26. > :35:29.not something the parties have any control over because they will have
:35:30. > :35:32.been given to the Royal Mail weeks ago so people will see things
:35:33. > :35:36.through the letterbox of the next few days, postal votes forms will
:35:37. > :35:39.start to arrive today and tomorrow and over the next couple of days so
:35:40. > :35:44.they will be low-level political activity taking place but I think it
:35:45. > :35:47.is not right that we begin the cut and thrust of an election campaign
:35:48. > :35:50.at this moment in time and our thoughts should be with those who
:35:51. > :35:56.have suffered an appalling loss this week. Mike Rumbles from the Liberal
:35:57. > :36:01.Democrats, Colin speaking about the cut and thrust being set aside just
:36:02. > :36:08.now. When do you think I'd be a suitable time for some form of
:36:09. > :36:12.campaigning? Would be the weekend? That might be campaigning policy
:36:13. > :36:16.positions and not really being highly critical of each other for
:36:17. > :36:20.example? We have to get back to campaigning. This is part of the
:36:21. > :36:23.democratic process. I certainly believe the national campaign should
:36:24. > :36:26.start and kicking at the appropriate point. Tamara was not the
:36:27. > :36:32.appropriate point. But others have suggested, by the time the weekend
:36:33. > :36:35.gets here I think we do have to get back into electioneering again and
:36:36. > :36:40.maybe starting with a different tone but it is important that we get on.
:36:41. > :36:44.We are advising everyone in the general public to carry on as normal
:36:45. > :36:48.and for politicians should start to get their views across as part of
:36:49. > :36:50.the general election campaign at the appropriate point which I wouldn't
:36:51. > :36:56.have thought would be before the weekend. Starting with Linda, I want
:36:57. > :37:00.to pick up with a debate that you will be covering in Parliament, the
:37:01. > :37:05.work of Parliament continues, about cyber security after that attack a
:37:06. > :37:07.couple of weeks ago. Linda Fabiani, I think the Scottish Government are
:37:08. > :37:13.saying they are trying to take a tough stance on this just now. You
:37:14. > :37:16.will have to pass to someone else because as deputy residing officer I
:37:17. > :37:23.am chairing part of that debate so it is not for me to talk about the
:37:24. > :37:26.content. Ross Thomson, you will be seeking reassurances I suppose from
:37:27. > :37:30.the Government about the cyber security threat particularly when it
:37:31. > :37:33.comes to the health service. Absolutely. One of the big threats
:37:34. > :37:39.we still face is cyber security, something which is a country we need
:37:40. > :37:42.to be more prepared for because attacks are coming in all different
:37:43. > :37:46.forms and every day from different places and as you can see and have
:37:47. > :37:51.seen, it has a real impact on the provision of public services. We
:37:52. > :37:55.have seen that with the NHS, so naturally the public are very
:37:56. > :37:59.concerned about what it means in terms of data, personal data, so we
:38:00. > :38:02.have to make sure proper safeguards are in place. And the Government is
:38:03. > :38:07.taking every measure and every step it can to ensure these things are
:38:08. > :38:11.safe and protected. Colin Smyth from Labour, it is of course a concern
:38:12. > :38:15.for your party and no doubt as well that patient records are protected
:38:16. > :38:18.and people can access the health service whenever they wanted and not
:38:19. > :38:23.when some hacker has decided to hold it to run some? That is right. The
:38:24. > :38:27.business of Parliament will continue today and will be asking a number of
:38:28. > :38:31.robust questions about the attacks on the health service. We will make
:38:32. > :38:34.sure that we have learned any lessons from the attacks, that the
:38:35. > :38:38.investment has been made and that computer systems across health
:38:39. > :38:41.boards in Scotland are well protected and the health records
:38:42. > :38:46.against further attacks. I'm sure that debate will be well presided
:38:47. > :38:50.over by the end of this afternoon. Mike Rumbles from the Lib Dems, an
:38:51. > :38:54.important point for you as well, you want to see the system is protected.
:38:55. > :38:59.I'm sure you want to see up-to-date systems and that perhaps has been a
:39:00. > :39:02.bit of concern that the systems are quite old-fashioned. There are some
:39:03. > :39:07.real problems with the IT systems up and down the country. Some of the
:39:08. > :39:11.questions that will be asked why are some organisations more heavily
:39:12. > :39:15.affected than others and why have some organisations not been affected
:39:16. > :39:19.at all? That has seen above the question, has another investment
:39:20. > :39:23.gone into protecting our IT systems and what responsibilities to the
:39:24. > :39:26.Scottish Government have ensuring that all public organisations across
:39:27. > :39:32.the country are well protected. These will be up tomorrow. Temp one
:39:33. > :39:37.from Labour, Mike Rumbles from the Lib Dems, Ross Thomson from the
:39:38. > :39:39.Conservatives and Linda Fabiani from the SNP. Thank you for joining us in
:39:40. > :39:40.unusual circumstances. A final thought from
:39:41. > :39:50.Professor John Curtice... Certainly unusual times, argy-bargy
:39:51. > :39:55.of normal politics is set aside, when do you think normal campaigning
:39:56. > :39:59.right restart? Mike Rumbles suggesting perhaps the weekend but
:40:00. > :40:04.in a perhaps rather different form. I think probably the crucial
:40:05. > :40:08.junction is Sunday morning, because of political anoraks Sunday mornings
:40:09. > :40:12.are full of television interviews with senior politicians and I would
:40:13. > :40:16.imagine that that probably be the latest bridge as it were we go back
:40:17. > :40:20.to some form of campaigning, though as we have already said Ukip are
:40:21. > :40:23.probably starting tomorrow, the Scottish screens will publish their
:40:24. > :40:27.manifesto on Friday so I think we will gradually build up. Saturday
:40:28. > :40:36.and Sunday most liquid. -- Scottish Greens. Also the way at which the
:40:37. > :40:40.tone of the campaign changes. One of the major issues that has been posed
:40:41. > :40:45.in this election is about leadership and who is best able to lead the
:40:46. > :40:51.country. That kind of debate almost inevitably invites personal attacks
:40:52. > :40:55.and comments. Whether or not that will become more difficult in the
:40:56. > :40:59.atmosphere, we will have to wait and see although perhaps maybe too easy
:41:00. > :41:03.for the current mood to change once we go back to campaigning. It clear
:41:04. > :41:07.think we can certainly anticipate that probably there will be more
:41:08. > :41:12.debate about protection against terrorism, whether we are spending
:41:13. > :41:16.enough money on the so-called Prevent Strategy etc. That probably
:41:17. > :41:21.get a certain amount of discussions that there wasn't -- that wasn't
:41:22. > :41:23.otherwise the case. Others will want to argue, what happened in
:41:24. > :41:28.Manchester has shown the importance of having a health service that is
:41:29. > :41:34.capable of dealing with crises. That also will maybe rise to differ.
:41:35. > :41:38.Certainly it is going to be probably difficult for politicians to work
:41:39. > :41:42.out the mood of exactly how to pick up this campaign again in such a way
:41:43. > :41:47.that reflects what has happened which is clearly just simply shot
:41:48. > :41:55.two people but that the same time -- shocked people. The way we run our
:41:56. > :41:58.public services and how we run our police and military is important and
:41:59. > :42:03.therefore the decision we make on June the 8th is an important
:42:04. > :42:07.decision and will be worthy of some debate in advance of people making
:42:08. > :42:11.their choice. Politicians obviously very sensitive about this issue.
:42:12. > :42:15.This was going to be a key campaign week with several manifesto
:42:16. > :42:19.launches, the SNP manifesto launch was cancelled and we had expected
:42:20. > :42:24.the Scottish Lib Dem manifesto this week and the Scottish Greens as
:42:25. > :42:29.well. This was quite a critical week in the campaign phase. By the end of
:42:30. > :42:35.this week we inspected to have all the public manifesto is out.
:42:36. > :42:38.Beginning to have major television interviews with various participants
:42:39. > :42:42.including not placed interviews with Andrew Neil and others on
:42:43. > :42:47.television. That has been suspended. It will have to be compressed into
:42:48. > :42:50.next week, by which time quite a few people will have voted, around 20%
:42:51. > :42:55.of people vote by post and most people have their ballot papers and
:42:56. > :42:58.the weekend, Bank Holiday weekend to consider how developed so I think
:42:59. > :43:02.one of the reasons why politicians will want to be found running by
:43:03. > :43:07.Sunday at the latest is that if they were delivered until Tuesday, quite
:43:08. > :43:11.a significant section of the vote will have been cast before they have
:43:12. > :43:17.even got back into the campaign. It is significant. A fifth of people
:43:18. > :43:20.having postal votes. People have got postal votes can return them as soon
:43:21. > :43:23.as they arrived and that has always meant that certainly getting the
:43:24. > :43:27.manifesto is out and having the important part of the campaigning
:43:28. > :43:31.actually concluded by as much as two weeks before polling day matters and
:43:32. > :43:35.is important. We have lost a week of that and certainly those parties who
:43:36. > :43:42.is it where I somewhat unfortunate in being having their manifesto
:43:43. > :43:45.publication being delayed I think will be keen to get this done
:43:46. > :43:48.quickly but given the Bank Holiday on Monday the truth is Tuesday is
:43:49. > :43:52.the earliest opportunity that they will have available to them.
:43:53. > :43:54.Professor John Curtice from Strathclyde University, thank you
:43:55. > :43:55.for your company. Reporting Scotland at 6.30
:43:56. > :44:00.on BBC One will have We're back at noon tomorrow
:44:01. > :44:06.with First Minister's Questions. More political news on our website
:44:07. > :44:29.but from all of us have a It would be the greatest night
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