:00:19. > :00:19.Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland.
:00:20. > :00:25.The SNP deputy leader Nicola Sturgeon formally announces her
:00:26. > :00:29.candidacy to replace Alex Salmond as party leader and First Minister.
:00:30. > :00:31.We'll hear why she's keen to have the job.
:00:32. > :00:34.And at the Labour Party Conference, Shadow health secretary
:00:35. > :00:37.Andy Burnham outlines the party's plan for the NHS in England,
:00:38. > :00:55.And NHS that puts people before profit. An NHS that cares for the
:00:56. > :01:02.carers and one therefore your mum and dad. The NHS, the time to care.
:01:03. > :01:05.The SNP's Nicola Sturgeon has put her name forward to replace
:01:06. > :01:07.Alex Salmond as party leader and first minister.
:01:08. > :01:10.The Glasgow MSP said she was still committed to Scottish independence
:01:11. > :01:13.but would concentrate on being a "willing partner" in the process to
:01:14. > :01:15.increase Holyrood's powers rather than planning another referendum.
:01:16. > :01:17.At her launch this morning at Glasgow's Royal Concert Hall,
:01:18. > :01:20.Ms Sturgeon said she would be a First Minister for all of Scotland
:01:21. > :01:33.I believe strongly today as I did last week that independence is the
:01:34. > :01:37.best future for Scotland. And I am more convinced than ever that we
:01:38. > :01:42.will become an independent country. But that will happen only when the
:01:43. > :01:46.people of Scotland choose that course in the polling booth. I
:01:47. > :01:52.except that last week the majority did not choose that future at this
:01:53. > :01:57.time. 1.6 million people is a remarkable number but it wasn't
:01:58. > :02:02.enough. So might ask will be to lead Scotland into an exciting new
:02:03. > :02:04.chapter in our national story, to unite our nation around a common
:02:05. > :02:12.purpose so that we can write that story together. If I am elected to
:02:13. > :02:18.lead, I pledge today that the SNP and the Scottish government will be
:02:19. > :02:21.full, active, genuine and constructive participants in that
:02:22. > :02:29.process of change, wherever it happens, in Holyrood, in meeting
:02:30. > :02:30.rooms and most importantly of all in discussions across Scotland. There
:02:31. > :02:34.will be no sitting on the sidelines. Well after that formal announcement,
:02:35. > :02:44.Nicola Sturgeon talked to Thank you for joining us. Looks like
:02:45. > :02:49.you're going to get there after ten years. I think I am the best person
:02:50. > :02:53.for the job at the time. We are entering a new chapter in
:02:54. > :02:58.Scotland's national story. I will read them into that chapter so that
:02:59. > :03:04.we hold Westminster parties to account, and to get the powers that
:03:05. > :03:07.we were promised at the end of the referendum campaign. I look forward
:03:08. > :03:15.to the challenges and virginity is ahead. Would you welcome a
:03:16. > :03:18.challenge? I relished the opportunity to get in and debate
:03:19. > :03:24.with fellow party members on the best way forward. Whether I am
:03:25. > :03:31.contested for the post of leader or not, I will spend a significant
:03:32. > :03:35.meant -- amount of time engaging with party membership. We have a
:03:36. > :03:40.larger membership than we had this time last week. We had more than
:03:41. > :03:46.30,000 new members joining. They want to be part of taking the
:03:47. > :03:50.country forward so that we have a newly empowered Scottish Government
:03:51. > :03:54.better prepared to deliver for the people of Scotland. In terms of
:03:55. > :04:06.being leader of the party and First Minister, what would change? Nobody
:04:07. > :04:15.comes close to my admiration than Alex Salmond. He has been a fitness
:04:16. > :04:19.-- magnificent leader. I am not Alex Salmond. He was the right person to
:04:20. > :04:24.bring us where we are now. As we go into this new phase, I think what is
:04:25. > :04:29.needed is someone who can argue their case, who can do that with
:04:30. > :04:33.passion and conviction. I have demonstrated I can do that and
:04:34. > :04:39.someone who can reach out to others across the political divide to find
:04:40. > :04:43.Common Cause and common purpose so that we can move forward as a
:04:44. > :04:47.country towards an empowered Scottish Parliament better able to
:04:48. > :04:51.deliver on the aspirations of people of Scotland that were so well
:04:52. > :05:00.expressed during the referendum. I think some people tried to persuade
:05:01. > :05:05.him to stay on. I was sad, Alex Salmond was set in the decision he
:05:06. > :05:09.was made. That is one of the characteristics of the man. He is
:05:10. > :05:14.often ahead of the curve in these decisions and he does what he thinks
:05:15. > :05:19.is right, not just for himself, but for the party. My job is to pick up
:05:20. > :05:25.the substantial legacy of Alex Salmond and to take that into the
:05:26. > :05:31.next chapter. The referendum himself, more powers and prospects.
:05:32. > :05:40.Do you except that the referendum was fixed camel --, as it is
:05:41. > :05:48.suggested in social media? I was disappointed in the result of the
:05:49. > :05:56.referendum, but hugely introduced by that result. 1.6 million people
:05:57. > :06:02.voted for independence. Those who did not vote for independence, did
:06:03. > :06:07.so on the basis of new powers. It is my job to make sure that that change
:06:08. > :06:11.is delivered, to make sure that Westminster parties are held to
:06:12. > :06:17.account, they cannot renege on the promises, that the Scottish
:06:18. > :06:21.Parliament get substantial powers, to protect our public services,
:06:22. > :06:35.create new jobs and to tackle the inequality that is such ask are on
:06:36. > :06:40.our nation. What about if these powers do not come through? There
:06:41. > :06:47.have been some worrying events and the last week. There is a process
:06:48. > :06:54.for English forts for Inglis issues. -- English. I hope it is my
:06:55. > :06:59.responsibility to go into the job with an open mind and with good
:07:00. > :07:03.faith. I am going into this process assuming that the other parties will
:07:04. > :07:07.hold true to the promises that they made. If they don't, then what they
:07:08. > :07:12.have got to fear is not so much what I will do, but what the Scottish
:07:13. > :07:17.people will do. The Westminster parties will pay a heavy and
:07:18. > :07:21.electoral price if the renege on the promises that were made. I hope that
:07:22. > :07:27.does not happen. But if that does happen, I will be first in the queue
:07:28. > :07:34.to say they have to pay the price. You are saying that about the 2015
:07:35. > :07:39.general election. Not another referendum. I will be very clear on
:07:40. > :07:46.if and when there will be another referendum. We have had one. You can
:07:47. > :07:49.hear my voice has not recovered from that referendum. It is not
:07:50. > :07:56.politicians who will dictate when and where another referendum will
:07:57. > :08:02.take place. It will be the Scottish people. If the Westminster parties
:08:03. > :08:07.do renege on their promises, there will be many people, not just those
:08:08. > :08:11.who voted yes, but many who voted no who will say, hold on a second,
:08:12. > :08:17.maybe it is time to think about this again. What I am saying, I am not
:08:18. > :08:22.planning for another referendum at this stage, but circumstances will
:08:23. > :08:27.dictate that, not what politician said on television interviews, but
:08:28. > :08:31.my focus on priority is to work with others to ensure those promises are
:08:32. > :08:34.kept, that Scotland get substantial powers it needs to make a big
:08:35. > :08:38.difference in the lives of people across the nation. If they don't,
:08:39. > :08:47.you might have to test the question. I will approach that according to
:08:48. > :08:51.the right time. I made it clear that the SNP is going into this process,
:08:52. > :08:56.not because we are secretly wanting it to feel, but we want it to
:08:57. > :09:01.succeed. I look at the referendum result last week and I see the
:09:02. > :09:06.majority for substantial change. I have a job to do and play my part to
:09:07. > :09:09.bring about that change and that is what I will focus on. You mentioned
:09:10. > :09:17.twice during your opening remarks, the question of the referendum and
:09:18. > :09:22.the European Union. RUC that if the UK votes to leave the European
:09:23. > :09:35.Union, taking Scotland weather, that that may be a case to asp another
:09:36. > :09:39.referendum? I am not sitting here right now saying that. I am making
:09:40. > :09:45.the point that circumstances will dictate if and when there is another
:09:46. > :09:49.referendum. Should the European referendum that sees the results of
:09:50. > :09:52.Scotland taken out of the European Union against their will, that will
:09:53. > :09:59.be something that will cause considerable concern and anger in
:10:00. > :10:03.Scotland and we need to -- may lead to circumstances where people look
:10:04. > :10:09.at the alternative. It is important at the outset of what I hope will be
:10:10. > :10:13.my leadership of the SNP, the leadership of the country, that I do
:10:14. > :10:18.not assume that things will go wrong. I will look ahead that things
:10:19. > :10:22.were Scotland will go right. My job and my responsibility is to bring
:10:23. > :10:32.that about. Do you think Scotland will become an independent country
:10:33. > :10:40.and when? I will not speak of our timescale. I think we are on a path
:10:41. > :10:44.to independence, but it is not me that will determine that timescale,
:10:45. > :10:48.it will be the people of Scotland. What has been established is that
:10:49. > :10:53.the people of Scotland are in control of the destiny of this
:10:54. > :10:56.country. For now, my task is to respect and accept the outcome of
:10:57. > :11:00.the referendum and to work to implement what I think was the will
:11:01. > :11:04.of the people last week and that is substantial change for this country.
:11:05. > :11:07.Nicola Sturgeon, thank you very much indeed.
:11:08. > :11:09.Joining me for the duration of the programme is
:11:10. > :11:11.the former executive editor of the Scotsman, and founder of the
:11:12. > :11:20.Good afternoon to you both. Let's pick up on what Nicola Sturgeon was
:11:21. > :11:27.talking about there. It is looking like a coronation. It is indeed.
:11:28. > :11:35.There is no lack of talented people in the SNP. I think the main
:11:36. > :11:40.interest will be the selection of who is good to be Nicola Sturgeon's
:11:41. > :11:46.deputy. That can pose interesting problems for the SNP to gain a
:11:47. > :11:51.balanced between the national party and speaking to the whole country,
:11:52. > :11:59.rather than this popular search of new members, mainly brought in from
:12:00. > :12:04.the left wing of Scotland, that has come to join the SNP. If we look at
:12:05. > :12:09.who is in the frame for being her deputy. With that follow that
:12:10. > :12:15.because she is a woman, it would have to be a man? Because she is an
:12:16. > :12:20.MSP, it might need to be an MP? I think there has to be some sets --
:12:21. > :12:26.sensitivity around these issues. There may be a problem for the SNP
:12:27. > :12:30.if it chose as its deputy leader someday from the West Coast. It
:12:31. > :12:38.would also be a problem if it chose someone else who was markedly to the
:12:39. > :12:44.left. It is a left-leaning party. But it is also a broad church and it
:12:45. > :12:49.has to be attentive to the 55% who did not vote for independence in the
:12:50. > :12:54.referendum and to try and bring most of these people over to the SNP
:12:55. > :12:59.side. I will be looking for candidates for deputy who would be
:13:00. > :13:08.more appealing to that sector. As they discuss policy moving forward,
:13:09. > :13:13.Nicola Sturgeon alluded that they had 58,000 members, that is over
:13:14. > :13:20.33,000 on where they were this time last week. Who knows what sort of
:13:21. > :13:28.policy agenda was -- agendas those people might want to bring to the
:13:29. > :13:36.party. My sense is that it has brought, it has attracted many of
:13:37. > :13:39.the activists in the referendum campaign, DS campaign. But let's be
:13:40. > :13:46.mindful to the other very broad constituent. Who the first minister
:13:47. > :13:51.blamed for losing the independence referendum, that is the older
:13:52. > :13:58.people. Demonstrative in their views. Look at any chart, projection
:13:59. > :14:08.for the voting constituency in Scotland. The numbers over 60 from
:14:09. > :14:12.Scotland rise from around 1 million currently to 1.4 point 4,000,020
:14:13. > :14:31.years. So they are not going to die off. -- 1.4 million in 20 years.
:14:32. > :14:41.It's fair to say... It's fair to say that for all Alex Salmond has
:14:42. > :14:45.received praise, Nicola Sturgeon will try and be in a different
:14:46. > :14:53.mould. I did detect a difference in tone, I thought the way she knocked
:14:54. > :14:55.out the talk of a UDI being declared, that change would come
:14:56. > :15:01.through the ballot box, was interesting. The second point was
:15:02. > :15:07.the one raised here about going into discussions with Lord Smith, and
:15:08. > :15:11.being more positive than Alex Salmond had suggested previously,
:15:12. > :15:19.which I think, looking at the 55% who didn't vote, they would be
:15:20. > :15:23.supportive of that. So that was a good note to strike and it does
:15:24. > :15:32.indicate a difference in the tone of the SNP going forward. For the
:15:33. > :15:34.moment, thank you. Now, to Holyrood where MSPs are continuing their
:15:35. > :15:46.debate on the referendum which began yesterday. So, my next positive
:15:47. > :15:52.remark was going to be that I welcome the remit that Lord Smith
:15:53. > :15:58.published yesterday in which he said is to facilitate an inclusive
:15:59. > :16:01.process across Scotland to produce by the end of November heads of
:16:02. > :16:08.agreement with recommendations for the further devolution of powers,
:16:09. > :16:16.and the keyword is inclusive. We have excited, and imagine the word
:16:17. > :16:25.being excited alongside politics, we have a great amount of democratic
:16:26. > :16:30.engagement, but the real test is, can recapture the enthusiasm, the
:16:31. > :16:33.ambition and the energy that was represented by that mammoth turnout
:16:34. > :16:40.in the referendum and ensure that the settlement that is proposed by
:16:41. > :16:42.Lord Smith captures those ambitions and puts them forward in a fashion
:16:43. > :16:49.that can give confidence to people in Scotland, that despite the fact
:16:50. > :16:51.that my side of the argument was unsuccessful last Thursday, the
:16:52. > :16:56.powers of this Parliament have been decisively enhanced for real purpose
:16:57. > :17:06.to enable us to address the challenges and the issues that face
:17:07. > :17:10.the people of our country. Last week 's referendum was indeed the biggest
:17:11. > :17:16.exercise of popular sovereignty in Scotland's history. Record numbers
:17:17. > :17:22.of people registered to vote and record numbers took part. I met some
:17:23. > :17:29.inspiring voters who will ball century and more ago, when only
:17:30. > :17:33.adult male householders over the age of 21 were allowed to vote. Many
:17:34. > :17:38.other voters like my younger daughter were born in the last 17
:17:39. > :17:42.years, after we agreed in our last referendum that there should be a
:17:43. > :17:48.Scottish parliament. Each and every vote in last weeks referendum was a
:17:49. > :17:51.big one and in response to the question to whether Scotland should
:17:52. > :17:56.be independent, a clear majority voted no. Scotland and England have
:17:57. > :18:01.shared a common head of state for over 400 years, we have shared a
:18:02. > :18:04.common Parliament for more than 300. Last week for the first time, the
:18:05. > :18:10.whole people of Scotland were invited to vote on whether or not to
:18:11. > :18:12.sustain that union and week of the people of Scotland, have determined
:18:13. > :18:18.for ourselves that our country should continue as part of one
:18:19. > :18:24.United Kingdom. The 2 million people who voted no were not merely the
:18:25. > :18:28.largest minority in an electorate divided among nonvoters and yes
:18:29. > :18:33.voters, they were a clear majority of those who chose to take part.
:18:34. > :18:39.Alex Salmond yesterday described the Scottish assembly referendum of 1979
:18:40. > :18:44.as a botch job because nonvoters were counted as if they were against
:18:45. > :18:49.the majority view, with the result that the side that gained most votes
:18:50. > :18:52.were not able to have its wish is taken into effect. Those who lost
:18:53. > :18:58.last week should not make that same mistake and they should accept the
:18:59. > :19:00.result is the sovereign will of the Scottish people, expressed by the
:19:01. > :19:09.two majority of those who chose to exercise their sovereign right. The
:19:10. > :19:13.community of the realm in the 1300 1602 was a much smaller and more
:19:14. > :19:17.limited elite than the mass electorate of today or even the
:19:18. > :19:22.electorate of 1914 but the point about popular sovereignty is that it
:19:23. > :19:28.the final word. Those that support the sovereignty of the people must
:19:29. > :19:32.not then pick apart the result. 2 million people voted for Scotland to
:19:33. > :19:34.stay in the union and they did so because in their judgement it was
:19:35. > :19:45.the best direction for Scotland to take. They were not tricked into
:19:46. > :19:48.making the judgement, Polish voters in Aberdeen voted for Scotland to
:19:49. > :19:54.remain in the UK for much the same reasons as most other Aberdonians
:19:55. > :20:04.voted no. They too believe the benefits of Scotland. The claim made
:20:05. > :20:09.yesterday that the polls voted no through fear is an insult to the
:20:10. > :20:13.intelligence and a slower on the integrity of those who argued that
:20:14. > :20:23.these nations are Better Together. -- a slower. I thank you for giving
:20:24. > :20:27.way. There were many, many polls in Aberdeen who were threatened by no
:20:28. > :20:35.campaigners, saying that they would be deported -- many Polish in
:20:36. > :20:41.Aberdeen. It was so severe that the yes campaign but too many Polish
:20:42. > :20:45.voters, does he deny that happened? He would have done himself a favour
:20:46. > :20:52.by except in the position I put to him that voters of whatever ethnic
:20:53. > :20:58.group and nationality, made that on the basis of the information put in
:20:59. > :21:04.front of them. It is equally wrong to say that pensioners voted for the
:21:05. > :21:08.union only because they were misled or they fail to take into account
:21:09. > :21:11.the interests of future generations. Dementia nation of older voter
:21:12. > :21:21.should have no place in the discourse of our modern society --
:21:22. > :21:25.enunciation. It is highly valued around the world, in part because
:21:26. > :21:29.older people think more than most about what the world will be like
:21:30. > :21:33.after they have gone. I believe it was precisely because of what they
:21:34. > :21:36.judged to be in the best interests of their children and grandchildren
:21:37. > :21:40.that so many older people voted for Scotland to stay in the union and
:21:41. > :21:46.future generations, I think, will be grateful for their immaturity and
:21:47. > :21:51.judgement. The truth is that all those who voted had a choice,
:21:52. > :21:56.between independence and a self-governing Scotland, and over
:21:57. > :22:01.55% chose devolution and not independence. That majority included
:22:02. > :22:06.majorities in most age groups but Scotland was for this purpose one
:22:07. > :22:10.constituency and the will of the Scottish people as a whole has been
:22:11. > :22:14.made clear. The commitments given by the Labour Party and other parties
:22:15. > :22:17.over recent weeks and months will lay the basis for future devolution
:22:18. > :22:22.which will be delivered following next week's election. Alex Allman
:22:23. > :22:29.said he could to the verdict of the people and called on everyone else
:22:30. > :22:32.to do the same. -- Alex Salmond. I'm glad Nicola Sturgeon has made a
:22:33. > :22:38.commitment to work with others on taking forward proposals for
:22:39. > :22:43.further, and I know how tough it can be to lose the vote at the end of a
:22:44. > :22:46.hard-fought campaign, it is easy to believe you are a title to win
:22:47. > :22:50.because you think you have made your case. Easier still to go into denial
:22:51. > :22:55.or like somebody to blame when you fall at the final hurdle but I think
:22:56. > :23:01.we all now need to accept and move on from last weeks clear decision
:23:02. > :23:05.and work together across parties to secure the kind of changes in our
:23:06. > :23:16.country that will make it an even better place in the future. One of
:23:17. > :23:22.the many positive aspects of the campaign was the sheer level of
:23:23. > :23:24.engagement, members of our communities engaged at all levels,
:23:25. > :23:28.whether social media, public meetings or the big TV debates,
:23:29. > :23:32.people were interested in this debate and who wouldn't be
:23:33. > :23:38.interested in the biggest, most important debate Scotland has ever
:23:39. > :23:42.had? It was a busy campaign regardless of where you were yes or
:23:43. > :23:47.no, I am sure the energy drinks sales probably want through the roof
:23:48. > :23:51.with campaigners, although I am currently trying to get the numbers
:23:52. > :23:56.of team Paisley off that kind of addiction. I'm glad to say the
:23:57. > :24:03.people of Paisley voted yes, they are a yes town, traditional working
:24:04. > :24:08.class areas wanted independence for Scotland, traditionally low turnout
:24:09. > :24:12.numbers came out in massive numbers to vote for this type of radical
:24:13. > :24:15.change and that is the type of engagement we must embrace as
:24:16. > :24:19.politicians, we must ensure that these people still feel powerful and
:24:20. > :24:25.still want to engage because they felt their vote would make a
:24:26. > :24:30.difference. They really wanted to go for something different in the
:24:31. > :24:33.future. I hope the Westminster elite stick to that and remember it when
:24:34. > :24:38.they make their decisions because the many campaigning stories we have
:24:39. > :24:42.all had, as were mentioned yesterday, young men and women going
:24:43. > :24:45.to school are shaking hands at the polling stations, another young man
:24:46. > :24:51.walking through the streets who had already been to the Parliament,
:24:52. > :24:57.shouting Georgie boy, he was voting on telling me how he was voting.
:24:58. > :25:04.Matthew who works for me says, what other politician is treated that way
:25:05. > :25:13.in Paisley streets? I take it as a commitment to the back are
:25:14. > :25:18.compliment myself. There was another moment when a young boy to corrupt
:25:19. > :25:20.me and said, she wanted to take a selfie and she said, I adore you,
:25:21. > :25:24.George. That debate has lasted 2 days but
:25:25. > :25:26.as well as discussing the fall out from the referendum
:25:27. > :25:31.SNP MSPs will also be focussing As we've heard, Nicola Sturgeon has
:25:32. > :25:36.announced her candidacy to succeed Alex Salmond at the top of the SNP
:25:37. > :25:39.and as First Minister. So what do politicians
:25:40. > :25:42.at the parliament make of these developments
:25:43. > :25:44.and how are they dealing with last Let's join
:25:45. > :25:57.our political correspondent The Scottish Parliament is back and
:25:58. > :26:01.on day two after the referendum result, there is going to be a
:26:02. > :26:06.continuation of the debate about how the vote went. We are expecting to
:26:07. > :26:10.hear from backbenchers but also from the government and party leaders.
:26:11. > :26:13.There will because in statements later, plus there will be health
:26:14. > :26:24.questions this afternoon. I'm joined now here in the Parliament by
:26:25. > :26:33.members of the Scottish Conservatives, SNP, Lib Dems and
:26:34. > :26:37.Labour. I would like to ask, Ruth Davidson spoke about the grief and
:26:38. > :26:45.hurt many are now feeling, how did you as an MSP and also your party,
:26:46. > :26:50.plan to help heal that? What we had last week was an emphatic result,
:26:51. > :26:55.people are already looking at the referendum through the rear-view
:26:56. > :27:00.mirror. But we do going forward is to ensure that we settle on and
:27:01. > :27:04.deliver the additional powers we promised. What is this Parliament go
:27:05. > :27:08.for 18 months? The regular business of Parliament is on hold. Given that
:27:09. > :27:12.we know these powers are coming, it's time for this Parliament to
:27:13. > :27:18.prepare for that and it's time to look at how this Parliament will be
:27:19. > :27:26.shaped. That's the business ahead. You are shaking your head about the
:27:27. > :27:29.fact that he has said Parliament has been on hold, Alex Salmond dressed
:27:30. > :27:35.that yesterday. What would be your response? That is an unrecognisable
:27:36. > :27:38.destruction of what has happened here, legislation has been passed,
:27:39. > :27:45.Parliament and committee has been very active. Maybe Jackson and his
:27:46. > :27:51.body can't do two things at once but we can and we have been involved in
:27:52. > :27:54.making sure use the powers one of the same time advocating a case that
:27:55. > :28:00.Scotland should be independent and we should run our own affairs. I
:28:01. > :28:04.accept absolutely decision has been taken, the referendum result is
:28:05. > :28:09.clear and we have to move on and stop the problem we have now is to
:28:10. > :28:13.make sure that Westminster delivers on their promises, their promises
:28:14. > :28:19.were very high in the run-up to the referendum and they must be sure
:28:20. > :28:23.they deliver. That is where 57,000 people on the members of the SNP, we
:28:24. > :28:31.have seen incredible rise in our membership. Your leader spoke
:28:32. > :28:38.yesterday of having federalism and a more nimble Scottish parliament, how
:28:39. > :28:45.do you envisage that taking form? Federalism, which is the answer for
:28:46. > :28:49.many people, I hope that will now come out, it's not just Liberal
:28:50. > :28:55.Democrats saying it, there are Labour members saying that if they
:28:56. > :29:00.put aside Scotland for a moment, it is sensible way to reconstruct our
:29:01. > :29:06.country. The point about a nimble Parliament is important. We had life
:29:07. > :29:11.by one issue, issue, independence, that has now been decided, no we
:29:12. > :29:19.have to move on and make sure our Parliament response to what people
:29:20. > :29:26.look for. It has been a bruising time, but we have dealt with it. We
:29:27. > :29:29.need to come up with some real challenges for the very real
:29:30. > :29:35.problems that people expect us to do. Joe one alarm and spoke
:29:36. > :29:43.yesterday in her opening statement in the need to except the result and
:29:44. > :29:48.move on. -- Johann Lamont. How do you expect to take up that? There
:29:49. > :29:53.will be substantial new power is delivered to the parliament in
:29:54. > :29:58.2016. We need to prepare for that. It will be a different place with
:29:59. > :30:03.different responsibilities. We need to work towards that. I have always
:30:04. > :30:09.believed in devolution for many years. We are only part way through
:30:10. > :30:13.and as a result the people of Scotland are going to see a push for
:30:14. > :30:17.devolution across the United Kingdom, that is only good news and
:30:18. > :30:22.I am excited about taking that forward. We need to persuade those
:30:23. > :30:29.people who voted yes that this is a valid alternative vision. We are
:30:30. > :30:34.embarking on an exciting new journey which is relevant for Scotland but
:30:35. > :30:41.also for the people of the United Kingdom as well. Johann Lamont has
:30:42. > :30:45.touched on the fact that a number of people who voted yes were those who
:30:46. > :30:53.voted Labour traditionally. How do you plan to address that # we need
:30:54. > :31:02.to understand the reasons why they voted yes. It is about deprivation,
:31:03. > :31:12.we need to be able to say the right things to people about that. Some of
:31:13. > :31:18.it depends on the geography and the circumstances as well. In terms of
:31:19. > :31:22.party membership, the SNP pointed out that they have had a huge surge
:31:23. > :31:28.in their membership which could take them beyond the Lib Dem membership.
:31:29. > :31:33.This has been something that the Lib Dems have been on a joint platform
:31:34. > :31:37.with the other parties on Better Together. How do you take this
:31:38. > :31:47.forward as your popularity as a party? It was the right case to make
:31:48. > :31:54.the case for the UK. I think his -- it is great that more than 2 million
:31:55. > :32:05.people voted no thank you. It is not a surprise that the membership for
:32:06. > :32:11.the yes parties has gone up. We are working towards more powers for the
:32:12. > :32:19.Scottish government and the rest of the United Kingdom. I hope all the
:32:20. > :32:25.main parties, all the parties in Scotland, will put good people onto
:32:26. > :32:30.his work, to make sure we deliver on what we all want to see, that is a
:32:31. > :32:35.much stronger Parliament within our United Kingdom, but one that has
:32:36. > :32:37.real tax powers and real welfare powers and that can make a
:32:38. > :32:44.difference to all the things that matter to people. That is something
:32:45. > :32:48.we should get on with and that is why I think the timetable being set
:32:49. > :32:55.out as demanding. I share Stewart and Jackson's, all our attributes
:32:56. > :33:02.and working towards that timetable to deliver it. That is what people
:33:03. > :33:06.expect us to do. Nicola Sturgeon has announced plans to stand for a
:33:07. > :33:12.candidate as First Minister. What would your response be to that. Who
:33:13. > :33:18.would you expect to be her deputy, what would you consider that? I am
:33:19. > :33:25.not going to be standing for either the leadership or the deputy
:33:26. > :33:34.leadership. There are two good reasons not to stand for it. I think
:33:35. > :33:43.it is a boost for the party for Nicola to stand for the leader of
:33:44. > :33:55.the SNP and First Minister. I am looking forward to party conference
:33:56. > :33:59.this year. -- the party conference. We have job-creating powers, more
:34:00. > :34:05.furnace and Scotland and a stronger voice in the international stage, we
:34:06. > :34:19.will be campaigning on and speaking about in the next few weeks. -- be
:34:20. > :34:24.earnest in Scotland. Despite what Stewart Maxwell said earlier, we
:34:25. > :34:31.have 18 months of this Parliament to run, all we have been told was that
:34:32. > :34:35.independence would make this better. We heard that Nicola Sturgeon wants
:34:36. > :34:39.to be First Minister. What this government is going to do for the
:34:40. > :34:47.next 18 months, what are the practical policies that Nicola
:34:48. > :34:49.Sturgeon is going to stand for. Lucy Adams talking to the MSP is there.
:34:50. > :34:51.From Edinburgh to Manchester where Labour's annual conference is
:34:52. > :34:55.Ed Miliband delivered his leader's speech yesterday but today the focus
:34:56. > :34:59.seems to be on what he forgot to mention rather than what he did say.
:35:00. > :35:00.Speaking off the cuff from scant notes
:35:01. > :35:03.the Labour leader it seems omitted a section explaining how his party
:35:04. > :35:06.would tackle the UK's budget deficit if he wins the election next May.
:35:07. > :35:09.This morning the shadow health secretary Andy Burnham has been
:35:10. > :35:13.Labour say they'll invest in the service to rescue it
:35:14. > :35:15.Of course during the referendum campaign Labour
:35:16. > :35:18.seemed to suggest that any talk of falling budgets or privatisation
:35:19. > :35:21.which could have a knock on effect in Scotland was a scare tactic.
:35:22. > :35:23.Joining me now from Manchester are Scottish MPs
:35:24. > :35:37.Good afternoon to both of you. John Robertson, what is the problem with
:35:38. > :35:44.the NHS in England that needs to be fixed? It is probably the same as
:35:45. > :35:52.the NHS up in Scotland. It is a case of priorities. People are trying to
:35:53. > :35:57.access the treatment that they need and deserve, then we have to look at
:35:58. > :36:03.it. We feel the government has spent millions of pounds of reorganising
:36:04. > :36:09.the NHS, but could have spent the same amount of money and employing
:36:10. > :36:13.nurses and doctors. It is a case of priorities now and our priorities
:36:14. > :36:17.are people and getting them into hospital, getting them to the GPs
:36:18. > :36:26.and making sure that the NHS that they thought they had is the one
:36:27. > :36:35.they get. During the referendum campaign, Labour kept saying that
:36:36. > :36:43.there would be no change to the NHS in Scotland as there was a No vote.
:36:44. > :36:46.The point is that the NHS is devolved to the Scottish parliament
:36:47. > :36:50.so the Scottish Parliament already makes the decisions about how they
:36:51. > :36:55.want to run the NHS in Scotland. I think the point here is what we're
:36:56. > :36:59.good to have with the Labour government next year is a huge boost
:37:00. > :37:02.of investment into the NHS in Scotland will benefit from that
:37:03. > :37:06.through the Barnett formula with additional spending for the health
:37:07. > :37:10.service in Scotland, which is a great thing. The challenge is to the
:37:11. > :37:14.Scottish Government now as to whether they are going to put that
:37:15. > :37:20.money into the NHS or not because it is their decision. Because decisions
:37:21. > :37:27.about the NHS are devolved to Scotland. Are they going to use this
:37:28. > :37:34.money for the NHS in Scotland? Do you favour the Barnett formula? As a
:37:35. > :37:38.Labour MP who is hoping to stand again next year to be elected, of
:37:39. > :37:45.course I do. You would not expect me to say anything else. There is going
:37:46. > :37:52.to be a deep change-up in Scotland and that change in Scotland is going
:37:53. > :38:01.to rip their break all the way down south. -- Reeve are great. So, yes.
:38:02. > :38:06.We still need that money. Not just to make things better. If someone is
:38:07. > :38:15.going to give me something, I will not say no. -- reverberate. Ed
:38:16. > :38:20.Miliband, who aspires to be prime minister in a few months time,
:38:21. > :38:25.forgets to talk about the deficit, the biggest issue facing this
:38:26. > :38:32.country. Ed has been very clear. Ever since he became the leader of
:38:33. > :38:36.the Labour Party that he would have a responsible approach to spending.
:38:37. > :38:41.What we heard yesterday was the number of policies which will
:38:42. > :38:47.radically change people's lies in this country and all of them work
:38:48. > :38:56.not about borrowing more money, they were about on tobacco companies,
:38:57. > :39:01.taxing people with high-value homes more to get that money that we need
:39:02. > :39:05.into our public services. That is further public services. He did not
:39:06. > :39:09.tell us how you will reduce the deficit, that is something the
:39:10. > :39:15.public need to, don't they? He has been very clear about our approach
:39:16. > :39:25.to that,... How would the deficit be reduced? Did you miss Ed Balls
:39:26. > :39:30.speech? There was a whole speech by him and the problems we are going to
:39:31. > :39:36.have and what we need to do. What Ed Miliband were saying yesterday was
:39:37. > :39:40.reprioritise the NHS and that is one thing that appeals to every single
:39:41. > :39:44.person in this country, it is very important that the elderly are
:39:45. > :39:54.looked after. Harry Smith made a wonderful speech today before Andy
:39:55. > :40:01.spoke. I don't think there was a dry eye in the hall. I shared a story
:40:02. > :40:08.hemp -- myself. He said how his family did not have an NHS. We had a
:40:09. > :40:13.sister who died in the house. We don't want anything like that. That
:40:14. > :40:15.is what this is about. To say he forgot to mention something about
:40:16. > :40:20.the deficit when wall we have talked about in the last few years as a
:40:21. > :40:26.deficit... That is by his own admission. You said that you hope to
:40:27. > :40:30.be elected in a few months time. Are you going to chap on the doors and
:40:31. > :40:34.the west of Glasgow and tell people that is a Labour MP you are in
:40:35. > :40:42.favour of much more austerity in the user, if Ed Miliband is a number ten
:40:43. > :40:45.Downing St? I hope to go out to people, not just a tock about why I
:40:46. > :40:50.want them to be like me. I need to find out why those people,
:40:51. > :40:59.particularly in Glasgow, will not vote Labour. White some of my
:41:00. > :41:05.supporters did not vote. Could it be that they were against austerity? It
:41:06. > :41:09.could be. They have got to tell us that. At the end of the day I need
:41:10. > :41:15.to explain to them that you can only cut it up so many ways. Most people
:41:16. > :41:19.understand that. I think, actually, the Scottish people are bit more
:41:20. > :41:26.clever that some people give them credit for. They understand that
:41:27. > :41:32.there is only so many ways things can go round. They need to know what
:41:33. > :41:35.the priorities are. You may well be in London for the next couple of
:41:36. > :41:41.days because there is a potential for a recall of Parliament to look
:41:42. > :41:46.at this issue of helping, this international coalition, of error
:41:47. > :41:54.strakes against -- air strikes against Syria and Iraq. Do you know
:41:55. > :41:58.which way you will vote? We need to hear what the Prime Minister is
:41:59. > :42:05.going to see this evening. It is a very serious situation. We support
:42:06. > :42:12.the action that the US and the Arab states are taking at the moment.
:42:13. > :42:16.This evening, I believe we will hear from the Prime Minister, and it is
:42:17. > :42:21.important we hear that and that we are then able to go forward. There
:42:22. > :42:26.hasn't yet been no request for the UK to be involved. We want to see a
:42:27. > :42:30.Security Council resolution will stop as to how this matter is taken
:42:31. > :42:39.forward. What is happening in Iraq and Syria is a serious threat to
:42:40. > :42:44.global security, to our security here in the UK. We have seen some
:42:45. > :42:47.awful things to happen to some of us citizens, there are terrible things
:42:48. > :42:55.happening on the ground to people in those countries. We need to do
:42:56. > :43:00.everything we can to resolve this. What is your position, John
:43:01. > :43:04.Robertson? Was Labour wrong last year to stand in the Prime Minister
:43:05. > :43:09.s' way when he had a desire to do something in Syria? At salute
:43:10. > :43:21.Lynott. I was probably one of those who stood in his way. -- at salute
:43:22. > :43:30.Lynott. This is about communities. -- absolutely not. If it was just
:43:31. > :43:35.the Americans backed up by the British, I would not be in favour.
:43:36. > :43:41.Citizens of this country, over and Syria and Iraq, they are doing
:43:42. > :43:46.horrible things. We need to protect people from these British citizens.
:43:47. > :43:50.If we can bring them to book and take them to court then we should do
:43:51. > :43:55.that. This is a completely different ball game than it was before... This
:43:56. > :44:01.is about communities are working together. In this case we should be
:44:02. > :44:03.part of it. Thank you both for joining us from Manchester.
:44:04. > :44:05.Still with me former executive editor of the Scotsman,
:44:06. > :44:15.and founder of the blog Scot-Buzz, Bill Jamieson.
:44:16. > :44:27.Let's talk about what we picked up whether politicians there. Quite
:44:28. > :44:32.turn ad mission for Ed Miliband to mention -- quite an admission for Ed
:44:33. > :44:49.Miliband not to mention the deficit. I think it was a glaring omission,
:44:50. > :44:55.and what he needs do is to reassure voters that actually, it is high up
:44:56. > :45:01.on the Labour agenda. The deficit is huge at the moment. This week, the
:45:02. > :45:05.problem got even worse than we thought it was. The annual deficit
:45:06. > :45:13.is going up, it's not declining in the way that the OBR forecast in
:45:14. > :45:17.March, it is significantly higher. Perhaps more worrying is the figure
:45:18. > :45:28.of outstanding debt has jumped up in the latest calculations, 1.3 8
:45:29. > :45:33.trillion, two over 1.4 trillion. That is a phenomenal talent to
:45:34. > :45:37.tackle. All the time, whether you are a Labour Chancellor or a
:45:38. > :45:44.conservative town to look flying out of the Treasury every year, this
:45:45. > :45:50.year it is 53 billion. A colossal sum. Would you make of the ideas he
:45:51. > :46:01.gave us to increase public services. Were they creative ideas, attacks on
:46:02. > :46:09.tobacco companies, mansion tax? Some of them centred very familiar, the
:46:10. > :46:13.mansion tax... The last time it was discussed, the tax industry had a
:46:14. > :46:19.field day, pointing out all the anomalies and the loopholes that
:46:20. > :46:23.could be created. It is there raise a substantial amount on a mansion
:46:24. > :46:29.tax unless you bring the level, the qualifying level, rather lower than
:46:30. > :46:37.2 million. The hoary old chestnut of cracking down on tax evasion, and
:46:38. > :46:45.efficiency savings. The tax on the tobacco companies, we don't have
:46:46. > :46:53.details on that but he has to raise considerably more than what we have
:46:54. > :46:56.been told. The speech itself, the reaction to it has been somewhat
:46:57. > :47:02.mixed, because it was a fairly low-key delivery, given that we are
:47:03. > :47:07.so close to an election, one might have expected perhaps more energy
:47:08. > :47:13.from the Labour leader. Certainly something different, I just felt, we
:47:14. > :47:22.have heard so many of these slogans before, working together, then the
:47:23. > :47:25.pledges on more nurses. That always brings a Labour Party conference to
:47:26. > :47:30.its feet but there needs to be something more, something new. And
:47:31. > :47:36.we searched in vain to hear something new from the person who is
:47:37. > :47:39.aspiring to be Prime Minister. Although we know talking about the
:47:40. > :47:44.NHS is a hot button issue, with people north and south of the
:47:45. > :47:49.border, which is why we sought in the referendum campaign. It is never
:47:50. > :47:54.going to be resolved because the problem is, our expectations of what
:47:55. > :48:01.we would like to have from the NHS is constantly on the rise and the
:48:02. > :48:07.iron law of democratic just spoils on pressure on NHS spending, no
:48:08. > :48:18.matter how incensed it is. Now let's go back to Holyrood. What we should
:48:19. > :48:22.concentrate on now is the future, creating a future which does not
:48:23. > :48:29.exist but will be determined by the decisions that we make. So now is
:48:30. > :48:33.the time for respect, abandoning polarisation and coming together as
:48:34. > :48:37.much as possible and nurturing the culture of participation and
:48:38. > :48:42.involvement that was boosted so much by the referendum campaign. In that
:48:43. > :48:53.context, I welcome much of what Nicola Sturgeon said this morning. I
:48:54. > :49:02.send her my best wishes. I do want to mention one concern I have about
:49:03. > :49:08.Nicola Sturgeon, I refused to rule out a referendum, that is contrary
:49:09. > :49:14.to what the First Minister said and also what she said about this being
:49:15. > :49:19.a decision for regeneration. It seems this morning that a political
:49:20. > :49:27.generation may have become a mere five years. It may well be that
:49:28. > :49:33.somebody else is going to do that. The two big issues for us, looking
:49:34. > :49:39.forward, are the new powers that we will receive, and of course how to
:49:40. > :49:47.make use, not just of those powers but the powers we currently have. I
:49:48. > :49:54.think even more important is how we use all the powers that we will soon
:49:55. > :50:00.have. I know that many people in the community is that I hold most dear
:50:01. > :50:06.did vote yes, by no means all but many of them did. They were doing
:50:07. > :50:10.that in the hope of more social justice and I believe the challenge
:50:11. > :50:14.for us is to start delivering on that social justice with the powers
:50:15. > :50:27.we have now and the powers we will soon acquire. Why is there not a
:50:28. > :50:32.poverty and assessment... I thank him for that intervention. I
:50:33. > :50:38.understand what you're saying, but we don't have the powers to change
:50:39. > :50:44.welfare reform which is impacting on some of our most vulnerable people.
:50:45. > :50:49.What I regret is all we hear about in motion to the debate about social
:50:50. > :50:59.equality is what we cannot do, were as we to concentrate more on what we
:51:00. > :51:03.can do. I made a general point... I'm a bit surprised by his remarks
:51:04. > :51:08.about the lack of qualities assessment given that he knows that
:51:09. > :51:13.on an annual basis we publish a qualities assessment of all of the
:51:14. > :51:17.government budget members which summarise... Of course, I know that
:51:18. > :51:23.but there is not a focus on poverty and income inequality and that is
:51:24. > :51:28.what I was reporting to. Much as I support more devolution to local
:51:29. > :51:39.government in general, why are there not more national initiatives for
:51:40. > :51:42.combating poverty. Certainly, issues of social justice and equality are
:51:43. > :51:47.going to be my novel one priority for my last 18 months in this
:51:48. > :51:50.Parliament, I know they will be of the Labour group in this Parliament
:51:51. > :51:57.and I hope they will be the number one priority of the Scottish
:51:58. > :52:03.Government. Firstly, there is a clear timetable and contrary to what
:52:04. > :52:06.Sandra White said, there will be delivery in accordance with that
:52:07. > :52:11.timetable. Secondly, and this is something I have noted in the
:52:12. > :52:14.comments of many yes supporters in the last few days, what was promised
:52:15. > :52:21.by the leaders and by Gordon Brown was not Devo-Max. Some people are
:52:22. > :52:26.saying, if it is not Devo-Max, they have renamed on their promise. You
:52:27. > :52:30.know Gordon Brown doesn't support that, everybody knows that none of
:52:31. > :52:36.the Better Together parties support that, it doesn't exist anywhere in
:52:37. > :52:40.the world. But what I will say it, my final words are that I certainly
:52:41. > :52:46.support excessive fiscal and other powers coming to this Parliament and
:52:47. > :52:49.I may not be entirely satisfied with the level of devolution that is
:52:50. > :52:55.delivered, but I will certainly welcome it. Devolution is a
:52:56. > :53:00.process, not an event, a process we can continue because of the no vote
:53:01. > :53:05.last week. In the very near future we will have the start of a
:53:06. > :53:07.semi-autonomous state within a fiscally federal UK and I hope
:53:08. > :53:16.everyone in this chamber will welcome that. I am told Bill
:53:17. > :53:21.Jamieson. I want to move to Westminster for a moment or two, and
:53:22. > :53:27.the potential recall of Parliament, it may happen on Friday. There is a
:53:28. > :53:31.meeting this evening between the Iraqi Prime Minister and David
:53:32. > :53:33.Cameron, if there is a formal request for British involvement,
:53:34. > :53:40.Parliament will reconvene to discuss that. How do you see it going? Three
:53:41. > :53:46.conditions have to be fulfilled in order for the UK to come militarily
:53:47. > :53:55.involved directly in the conflict against Isis. The first is a UN
:53:56. > :54:01.resolution. The second is to have absolute clarity in terms of the
:54:02. > :54:10.military objectives, what is it that the UK can do in Syria? Because it
:54:11. > :54:17.is quite complicated thing for the military to undertake. That will
:54:18. > :54:24.have to be clear. And the third, of course, is consultation and approval
:54:25. > :54:29.by Parliament. So it is right he should take this issue to Parliament
:54:30. > :54:34.to be discussed. Do you think you will get this approval? Last year
:54:35. > :54:38.Labour blocked a foray into Syria, this year second starters are
:54:39. > :54:40.different but at the same time there will be dissenting voices,
:54:41. > :54:46.particularly because of what happened in Iraq. I think the
:54:47. > :54:51.horrific actions that Isis have taken seen on all our TV screens,
:54:52. > :54:56.have so appalled people that they feel it cannot go on and this group
:54:57. > :55:00.cannot keep gaining territory in Syria and threatening the whole of
:55:01. > :55:07.the Middle East. I feel that on this occasion, the majority of MPs will
:55:08. > :55:11.feel that the UK ought to join in. Do you think we might get a
:55:12. > :55:15.different view from politicians in Scotland? We were told that people
:55:16. > :55:23.were in less of a rush in Scotland, against the idea of a war in Iraq
:55:24. > :55:28.that the rest of the UK? I think people have been appalled and
:55:29. > :55:34.chilled as much in Scotland as in the rest of the UK, I wouldn't
:55:35. > :55:39.imagine they would be a significant point of view between Scottish and
:55:40. > :55:43.the rest of the UK MPs. Talking about the debate we have been
:55:44. > :55:49.watching in the Scottish Parliament over the independence referendum,
:55:50. > :55:54.pretty good-natured, a couple of interesting points made there,
:55:55. > :55:59.Malcolm Chisholm talking about more social justice, they don't have the
:56:00. > :56:02.levers of power to deliver that, but does the Parliament no need to come
:56:03. > :56:10.up with something new, as it were, to offer the people? It was
:56:11. > :56:15.interesting, listening to the debate, you just felt, if this is a
:56:16. > :56:21.new start in Scottish politics, it looks very familiar to me. We'll
:56:22. > :56:25.soon find, wants the Finance Minister presents the budget for the
:56:26. > :56:31.next financial year, it'll be a case of reverting to the status quo
:56:32. > :56:38.intent of the documents and of course, politics, no matter how much
:56:39. > :56:44.we wish it to be reinvigorated, at the end of the day, politics does
:56:45. > :56:51.come down sorting out priorities, working within constraints, getting
:56:52. > :56:53.hard choices. That is what the Scottish parliament does and why
:56:54. > :56:59.what will hear over the next few weeks may sound very similar. The
:57:00. > :57:12.signing of the said, it can't be as nice as usual but politics is quite
:57:13. > :57:16.tribal. We may see some consensus, maybe it will last six weeks if we
:57:17. > :57:22.are lucky. I don't see a great breadth of goodwill spreading out
:57:23. > :57:26.for very long. It is very tribal, feelings are partisan and don't
:57:27. > :57:32.forget we are in the run-up to a big Westminster election in 2015 and you
:57:33. > :57:38.will find that electricity charging through the Scottish Parliament just
:57:39. > :57:43.as much. And it depends what we get from Westminster as well. Thank you
:57:44. > :57:47.for joining us. That's it for today, Sunday politics will be back
:57:48. > :58:01.at 11 a.m.. From everyone, goodbye. A world of almost limitless
:58:02. > :58:06.consumption. It makes you realise
:58:07. > :58:11.how important this place is. There are now even more ways
:58:12. > :58:15.to get involved and watch
:58:16. > :58:17.the inspirational programmes made by the BBC
:58:18. > :58:20.and the Open University. The world is much better
:58:21. > :58:26.than you think.